Patterico's Pontifications

6/30/2011

Weinergate: Someone Smarter Than Me: Explain Why This Is Not Possible

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:49 pm

The person claiming to be “Jennifer George” who called Lee was a hoaxer.

There really was a person who threatened the real Jennifer George, and that person pretended to be Lee Stranahan.

That person hates Lee, and Breitbart.

I have been very busy and probably don’t know all the reasons why this couldn’t possibly be the case. So tell me.

UPDATE: Point #1 could be wrong, and the theory still holds.

UPDATE x2: I’m feeling better about the theory with each passing second.

Hi, Neal!

3,765 Responses to “Weinergate: Someone Smarter Than Me: Explain Why This Is Not Possible”

  1. Maybe Neal Rauhauser could come explain to me why this could not be possible.

    Patterico (135ea8)

  2. It seems like you are poking a very vile cretin.

    JD (318f81)

  3. Vile cretins sometimes poke others and assume they will not be poked back.

    Patterico (135ea8)

  4. “Vile cretins sometimes poke others and assume they will not be poked back.”

    Patterico – I seem to recall several examples of such behavior here.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  5. Neal does have all kinds of charts at his disposal.

    goatsred (b20383)

  6. So what about this theory?

    Patterico (135ea8)

  7. He is a pox on Champaign Urbana. And just generally a pox. A festering rectal fistula on the cornhole of humanity.

    JD (318f81)

  8. Could hear a pin drop.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  9. No one could find the real JG to threaten her.

    Molon Labe (cd5a15)

  10. Is it just me, or does Neal look like Q in Star Trek the Next Generation?

    bmertz (d77c52)

  11. Is there a specific reason to suspect Rauhauser? Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t put this past him and his colleagues in the “Beandog” troll posse, but I’m just asking if there is any specific reason to suspect him.

    Robert Stacy McCain (04f24a)

  12. Interesting post, Patterico, But…

    What does this mean:

    “The person claiming to be “Jennifer George” who called Lee was a hoaxer.”

    Was a hoaxer means that that the person calling Lee was not Jennifer George? How do you know this? Do you know who this person is?

    “”There really was a person who threatened the real Jennifer George, and that person pretended to be Lee Stranahan.”

    Regarding the “real Jennifer George” you refer to here; Is this the jenny George in Boston? Is this the Jenny George that set up the starchild111 account?

    Oh yeah, do you know this as a fact? How?

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  13. “No one could find the real JG to threaten her.”

    Molon Labe – Correction – Nobody has admitted to finding the real JG to threaten her. A big difference that you and Lee cannot seem to grasp.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  14. Isn’t Neal the one that proved that Weiner was hacked by goatsred?

    JD (318f81)

  15. 12. He’s been very interested in Weinergate, Stacy.

    Plus note his email to the California JG:

    http://www.jennifergeorge.com/weiner.html

    (scroll down … )

    Why’s he so interested in what is a dead story, according to him?

    Miranda (4104db)

  16. Is there a specific reason to suspect Rauhauser?

    Who said they suspect Rauhauser? I just thought he might want to explain this all to me.

    Patterico (135ea8)

  17. If I were a betting woman I’d bet that someone who knows something (like maybe a known expert on Weinergate) is ratting out Neal.

    elissa (f08e75)

  18. Elissa – he is a Weiner expert.

    JD (318f81)

  19. Everyone is getting threatened these days. What’s the world coming to? :(((((

    Ms. Alicia Pain (4f8afb)

  20. 18. elissa

    Like maybe Ron Brynaert?

    Ron has been accusing Neal Rathauser of threatening his family as of late.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  21. Preston called the CA JG a week before anybody else noticed the Jenay thing, right?

    MayBee (081489)

  22. elissa
    Especially if that person had been receiving threats from Neal

    bmertz (d77c52)

  23. Elissa,
    Threats like these from Neal: Ron’s tweets

    Ron claimed Neal was threatening his family.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  24. I absolutley love the detective work you guys! In fact, I just got through watching an episode of Columbo with my wife. It was the episode with Richard Kiley, who plays the police chief who kills his wife after he covers for another neighbors murder. It was interesting in that most of the episode was filmed in downtown LA and Hancock Park, very little sound stage stuff. Coincidentally, it was directed by Ben Gazzara, one of Peter Falks(R.I.P.) best friends. What precisely are you trying to uncover with the emails?

    The Tamandua (4de175)

  25. Lots of threats going around in this non-story. I wish we could find out who threatened Ginger Lee.

    MayBee (081489)

  26. 15.Isn’t Neal the one that proved that Weiner was hacked by goatsred?
    JD and Mr.McCain—Yes, and he proved ,or ,put me on the “short list, of people who he knows,stalked Rep.Weiner.

    goatsred (b20383)

  27. Does Weiner still have people working on this story?

    MayBee (081489)

  28. Doesn’t Neal have Ginger Lee on his list too?

    bmertz (d77c52)

  29. 28.Does Weiner still have people working on this story?

    Comment by MayBee

    No MayBee, his people are trying to figure out where the hell HUMA went to.Antonee cant buy gwoceries without her check.

    goatsred (b20383)

  30. Wonder who threatened Patterico and Ace?

    Ms. Alicia Pain (4f8afb)

  31. @goatsred Who leaked all that stuff to the Smoking Gun about you? Patriot?

    Ms. Alicia Pain (4f8afb)

  32. Hey guys, gimme a little taste(a brief rundown) of all this “intrigue”. I am coming into this a little late, but I am genuinely enthralled. Sometimes I feel like a sly little elf, who should be sitting under his own private little toad stool. C’mon indulge me!

    The Tamandua (4de175)

  33. So what about this theory?

    Comment by Patterico

    I’m so confused I don’t know what I think.

    It all stopped making sense after Weiner resigned. I can’t figure a coherent strategy for the sock puppets, even with three layers of mis-direction laid on top.

    Since you propose a coherent theory for at least the answering machine death threats, I shall fall upon it with a glad cry and clutch it to my bosom.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  34. Is there a specific reason to suspect Rauhauser? Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t put this past him and his colleagues in the “Beandog” troll posse, but I’m just asking if there is any specific reason to suspect him.

    Comment by Robert Stacy McCain

    An excellent question, addressing my deep confusion.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  35. 29. bmertz, yes, Ginger Lee, Meagan Broussard Mike Stack & the real person behind Dan Wolfe – if you’re referring to NR’s email to JG.

    What Neal did on Twitter yesterday was refer to Ron’s family – as if they’d been talking to him:

    “Your judgment is impaired, Ron. Friends & family have said as much to you.” and
    “Your family is well aware of your distress, Ron.”

    I didn’t see any threats. Just sounded to me as if Simon Sinister was deliberately screwing with Ron. I was reading his tweets after seeing his email to JG on her site.

    Now he’s been tweeting about Twitter etc – he’s not his usual obnoxious self. Interesting.

    Miranda (4104db)

  36. Miranda Neal or Ron is tweeting ?

    btw, if anyone is interested about the nickname for Neal aka Simon Sinister

    bmertz (d77c52)

  37. There is no need for that.

    JD (318f81)

  38. Miranda

    What do you make of this claim? Could Neal pull that off?

    ronbryn Ron Brynaert
    @NealRauhauser blocked his tweets trying to make it harder for world to see the multiple indirect threats he made regarding my family.
    29 Jun

    bmertz (d77c52)

  39. Tamandua–see, it’s like this. Patterico has a lot of different sandboxes that people can choose to play in (or not play in) at his site. Not everybody is interested in every topic. You pulled this snarky crap on another thread yesterday, and trust me, you’re not as subtle or clever as you may think you are. You are welcome to avoid the “detective” threads you find so annoying. Nobody is forcing you to read about Weinergate if you find it all so terribly, terribly silly and amusing, you know. Or, is it an act to hide that you’re actually very interested in Weinergate?

    elissa (f08e75)

  40. #38 – Nasty. That’s just sick and stupid and wrong.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  41. Breitbart tweeted to Neal that he knew he was Dan Wolfe and that Neal should just go ahead and admit it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  42. ah ha

    bmertz (d77c52)

  43. #41 – elissa – lovely smack down.

    I’m reading as much as I can, and have decided that all I can do is plaintively ask if there’s a coherent story, yet. I wish I had any clues.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  44. I think Neal is trying to make his presence known

    bmertz (d77c52)

  45. Breitbart tweeted to Neal that he knew he was Dan Wolfe and that Neal should just go ahead and admit it.

    Comment by daleyrocks

    Whoa! Really?!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  46. Hey, my friend, I am curious. I don’t enter this blog “bad-mouthing” people because they have an opinion different than my own. I try to practice charity, and though you may not approve of my somewhat off center posts, I like to think I am an interesting fellow, with something to share. I know you may not approve of me(for whatever reason) as you see everything as so dire, but trust me, lighten up just a little my friend, you may cultivate some friends down the road, (as difficult to fathom as it may seem, in your case).

    The Tamandua (4de175)

  47. #38 – Nasty. That’s just sick and stupid and wrong.

    It is a public record. It’s not sick, nor stupid, nor wrong.

    Ms. Alicia Pain (4f8afb)

  48. Ron must have outed Neal

    bmertz (d77c52)

  49. 37. bmertz, those were Neal’s tweets, about 2 pm or so yesterday.

    http://twitter.com/#!/NealRauhauser

    You can read twitter msg’s even if you don’t have a twitter account, bmertz. I don’t have one either. I think you had mentioned before that you didn’t have one.

    Miranda (4104db)

  50. I think this is more germane question, is the Jen George in Boston who got the death threats, the Jenny George who set up the starchild111 account, used as Jenay for some time, and then changed the moniker to Nikki to punk A. Weiner’s twitter followers?

    As far as I can remember the only evidence connecting the Boston Jen George to the Jenny George= Jenay=Nikki account is the Massachusetts accent Lee noted. I just checked Lee’s notes and there wasn’t anything else that tied the phone call to the Boston Jen George? It certainly is possible that the Call to Lee claiming to be Jenifer George was someone else trying to divert and discredit Lee. And to that end Lee’s caller may have also called the Boston Jen George and threatened her.

    So I guess it is possible that the Boston Jen George is not associated with the starchild111 account, but for some reason was threatened by someone wanting to hurt Lee.

    When Lee heard of the police report from the Boston Jen George, he appears to have jumped to the conclusion that she was the person who called him and was trying to derail his investigation by falsely accusing him.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  51. Oh, you may not think that was not wrong, but you would be wrong.very wrong. Aggressively wrong.

    JD (318f81)

  52. No Elissa, the only people in this hemisphere that are as remotley enthralled with the “tragic and pathetic” mumbo-jumbo you call “Weinergate” are you and a few other cybernerds!

    The Tamandua (4de175)

  53. Tamandau – nobody is forcing you to read or comment, no?

    JD (318f81)

  54. #48

    It’s none of your business, you nasty little perv, nor anyone not needing to have the information for law enforcement or credit purposes, come to think of it!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  55. Miranda
    Thank you. I think that is the link you gave me earlier. I did go to the link you gave me. Ron sounded so frantic that I copied all his tweets into one list, and posted them onto one of the threads here. He was also offering to give a tell-all DM to any major blogger that contacted him. It looks as though he contacted Patterico.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  56. It’s none of your business, you nasty little perv, nor anyone not needing to have the information for law enforcement or credit purposes, come to think of it!
    Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 10:03 pm

    It is my business, the guy is tweeting some pretty outrageous stuff, his criminal record is a public record. I did leave out the address.

    Ms. Alicia Pain (4f8afb)

  57. #48 Many things will be public record soon.

    Crispian (70c05e)

  58. I can and will comment, the fact that YOU don’t approve of me is irrelevant JD. Your friend Elissa took it upon herself to start taking swings, so she gets a “haymaker” back. Quid pro quo..

    The Tamandua (4de175)

  59. You can read twitter msg’s even if you don’t have a twitter account, bmertz. I don’t have one either. I think you had mentioned before that you didn’t have one.

    yes, thanks for explaining (elissa too). I was missing most of the conversation happening off the blog. I appreciate the explanation.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  60. Alicia- what is he tweeting that you find outrageous?

    MayBee (081489)

  61. “Alicia” is yet another sick twist. Just like Rauhauser.

    JD (318f81)

  62. #48 Many things will be public record soon.

    Comment by Crispian — 6/30/2011 @ 10:07 pm

    Your point being?

    Ms. Alicia Pain (4f8afb)

  63. Thanks for removing #38. Clearly posting stuff like that doesn’t help…but I suppose that’s the point.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  64. Dianna and bmertz – I think I got Breitbart’s reference mixed up in #46 above. He was referring to Ron:

    AndrewBreibart Andrew Breibart
    @
    @NealRauhauser @ronbryn robyn, we already know ur dan wolfe, enough with the sock charade.
    29 Jun
    in reply to ↑
    Neal Rauhauser
    @NealRauhauser Neal Rauhauser
    @AndrewBreibart Beauty! Do another!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  65. Alicia = Neal

    bmertz (d77c52)

  66. I neither approve or disapprove. Elissa nailed you, and now you are predictably lashing out at everyone else. If you don’t like the topic, go on to the next one.

    JD (318f81)

  67. I deleted a comment that purported to post personal information for Ron Brynaert.

    For some reason the whole thing reminded me of the way The Smoking Gun treated Mike Stack.

    All public record to be sure.

    Hi Neal!

    Patterico (135ea8)

  68. daleyrocks

    AB is not sending it to Neal? It reads as though he is receiving it too. Or both?

    bmertz (d77c52)

  69. The Tamandua – Did you just follow your anteater nose to this blog? What brought you here?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  70. JD, I have caught your pathetic, mealy-mouthed little act on this and other blogs, you are a blight and crap stirer from way back. The only reason you hack on Yelverton so much is because he has twice the education and smarts than you will ever have. Your pathetic jealousy of him is almost embarassing to witness.

    The Tamandua (4de175)

  71. Pat,

    There’s nothing inherently impossible about your line, but it does seem a far less likely explanation. Why? Because it postulates unknown additional people, whereas Lee’s theory goes to one known person who had a motive to act as Lee suspects she did.

    The most powerful piece of evidence on the table is Lee’s history of the starchild111 twitter account. That history demonstrate or strongly suggest:

    (1) That the original creator of the account was the same person who later gave herself out as Nikki Reid

    (2) That the creator changed the account’s appearance in an attempt to get to Weiner, including using the fake avatar.

    (3) That the creator is older than Nikki gave herself out to be (due to early celebrity follows that are out of the era of a 16-year-old girl).

    (4) That the conversations with Marianela only began after the account’s purpose had been shifted to Weiner-seeking and therefore are suspect.

    That much is established.

    Now, Jenny G. filed the police report as it became evident that Lee was closing in. So there is an actor and a motive.

    Your line, other the other hand, while it does preserve the independence and integrity of John Reed, falls short by postulating additional actors with speculative motives.

    Look Pat, if Lee’s right, this person is big time into misdirection. Wasn’t it convenient that the whole John Reid twitter war with the NYT came up when it did, just as Lee was announcing his grand unified sock puppet theory? What better to discredit the theory than a real live John Reid?

    If there’s one puppeteer, all the motives and actions fit – Reid’s outburst, Alicia Pain, Jenny’s police report – they’re all increasingly desperate attempts to evade a closing net.

    What have you got? No good explanation for the starchild111 history, and a bunch of hypothetical actors driven by highly speculative motives.

    John Reid’s integrity is already suspect, why fight so hard to preserve it?

    Nathan Wagner (01c83e)

  72. Neal was attempting to make a point and a threat of course.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  73. “AB is not sending it to Neal? It reads as though he is receiving it too. Or both?”

    bmertz – I found it in Neal’s twitter stream. Andrew addressed it to both Neal and Ron, Neal first. What I missed before was the second reference to Ron, or Robyn, as Breitbart misspells Ron’s handle.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  74. Comment by The Tamandua — 6/30/2011 @ 10:17 pm

    Geez, is anyone surprised? Very unoriginal, pedestrian and just as boring as ever.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  75. Gee Daley, I didn’t know it was your and JD’s personal blog.

    The Tamandua (4de175)

  76. I’m assuming the twitter account with Andrew’s picture on it was real. Andrew may have just been kidding around with the message. Who knows.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  77. It is my business, the guy is tweeting some pretty outrageous stuff, his criminal record is a public record. I did leave out the address.

    Comment by Ms. Alicia Pain —

    Nonsense. And, though (fortunately!) your nasty little post is gone, the address was there.

    Nasty little perv!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  78. Anyone who likes Yelverton is an abject jackass. He has an education in the piccolo or some crap like that.

    And JD is a very smart and funny guy, and it’s challenging to debate him if he is inclined to take you seriously. The reason lefties think he’s unserious is simply because he doesn’t take trolls very seriously.

    Tam, were all your other comments just fabrications? Is that what all the stupid quotations marks and effusive compliments were about?

    Because you weren’t satirical or witty there, if so.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  79. “Gee Daley, I didn’t know it was your and JD’s personal blog.”

    The Tamandua – I have made no such claims. For a Truman Democrat you have very thin skin. Are you short as well?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  80. Nonsense. And, though (fortunately!) your nasty little post is gone, the address was there.

    Nasty little perv!

    Comment by Dianna

    This is the truth. I recall it as well. I don’t know what this Alicia is, or if it’s the same one or merely a diversion, or if it’s Neal or yet another diversion. All I know is that it’s desperate for attention and unable to work up a better way of getting any.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  81. Look Daley, I likened myself to an elf. You tell me..

    The Tamandua (4de175)

  82. I’m getting an idea where this is going… oh boy

    bmertz (d77c52)

  83. #81 – Dustin – much calmer than my response. Sorry about getting a bit over-wrought. Bad day, and way too much drama.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  84. m getting an idea where this is going… oh boy

    Comment by bmertz —

    Please, tell me! I’m completely at sea.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  85. I think Neal was trying to jerk our chain. How old is this guy?
    17?

    bmertz (d77c52)

  86. Nathan Wagner,

    This theory need not *necessarily* relate to JohnReid9 in any way. That may have been a sting operation, or it may be a real person who is what he says. I offer no opinion, as is my habit.

    But everything you said about the timing can be explained by hoaxers. Everything.

    This theory does something I have seen no other do: explain the political motivation part. Because that part has confused me up until now.

    Patterico (135ea8)

  87. I missed where I claimed this was my blog. But that comment at 10:17 was epic funny.

    JD (318f81)

  88. “Look Daley, I likened myself to an elf. You tell me..”

    The Tamandua – So you are Yelverton!

    What brought you here?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  89. #81 – Dustin – much calmer than my response. Sorry about getting a bit over-wrought. Bad day, and way too much drama.

    Comment by Dianna — 6/30/2011 @ 10:26 pm

    I think you were fine. Whoever did that is a nasty person. Sorry you had a bad day. I’ve had a few lately, but today was great.

    Sock#3 (b7410e)

  90. Patterico, how many hoaxers are we talking about?

    To categorize, are we talking “internet fun” or “Holy Blood, Holy Grail”?

    Granted, that’s one to ten, but I’m trying to set some mental boundaries.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  91. Diana.. go read Ron’s tweets and his offer
    Could be..

    bmertz (d77c52)

  92. Dustin, your credibility is as vapid as JD’s when you resort to hacking on this guy Yelverton the way you do. I have yet to hear “him” say the outrageous and uncharitable things that you two hurl at him, and many others. Are you so incapable of having a spirited debate without attempting to humiliate this guy, and everyone else. Anyone who reads these posts, would think that you both are consumed with envy toward this man. It is totally disproportianate man!

    The Tamandua (4de175)

  93. Patterico, how many hoaxers are we talking about?

    Who knows? Could be one. Three. Five.

    Why do you ask?

    Patterico (135ea8)

  94. Tammy, I don’t know why in the blue hell you want to talk about that complete nutcase, Yelverton. No one on this planet cares about that loser. He trolls blogs a lot. I got him to slip up once and admit he was the troll.

    But stop talking about how much you hate JD, me, Elissa. No one gives a crap about that. Come on. Is this the best thing you can think of to contribute?

    Dustin (b7410e)

  95. Dia(n)na.. go read Ron’s tweets and his offer
    Could be..

    Comment by bmertz

    OK, I’ll try to follow the link and make sense of it. He seems even more over-wrought than I am, though.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  96. Patterico,

    Quote:

    1. The person claiming to be “Jennifer George” who called Lee was a hoaxer.

    2. There really was a person who threatened the real Jennifer George, and that person pretended to be Lee Stranahan.

    3. That person hates Lee, and Breitbart

    Well,

    1. Lee was not leaning that way based on the timing of the call he received from the person claiming to be Jenny and owning the Starchild111 account but claiming no knowlege of the Weiner story. I would have to look back at the timing but I thought Lee felt it was the correct person based on the timing of her call in relation to an email that he sent.

    2. This one is still open since we don’t know yet if Jenny is still claiming it was Lee that make threats or one of his “followers”. The whole police report needs to be confirmed. Did Lee get a copy since it involves him?

    3. Not clear that this matters since I have not seen the alleged threats against Jenny tied back to Breitbart. Well, unless we want to assume that Breitbart is a “follower” of Lee’s :-)

    Summary, follow the sockpuppet trial until we get some additional facts on Jenny and the police report.

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  97. Patterico,

    I get the sense that whoever is at the center of this is now circling the drain and will be apprehended soon. And then any rats in his ship will happily squeal rather than be charged as accessories. It would certainly behoove those people to step forward now rather than face that situation.

    Crispian (70c05e)

  98. Why do you ask?

    Comment by Patterico

    Pure, hopeless confusion. If I can start to whittle the player down to a nice, coherent list (lacking at this point, possibly because I’m reading too many sources with slightly conflicting views of events), I may begin to feel I have some sort of handle on this tale.

    Presently, it’s like a very bad post-modernist novel, complete with mis-spellings and random occurences one is supposed to regard as amusements.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  99. Rave on Dustin, the only people who would believe or subscribe to your juvenile diatribe is JD and a couple of other sycophants on this blog. Look in the mirror ..

    The Tamandua (4de175)

  100. You are clearly trying to threadjack.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  101. Why are you apparently so obsessed with me?

    JD (318f81)

  102. ____________________________________________

    That person hates Lee, and Breitbart.

    I’ve long suspected that the hoaxers or sock puppets were leftists who got into the Weinergate game in order to poke at, aggravate or mock Republicans/conservatives. Or perhaps the hoaxers got involved because they wanted to create a diversion or smokescreen for Weiner so that he’d come out of the scandal looking as good as possible.

    The possibility they were of the right didn’t seem as likely to me, if only because they, unlike many liberals, probably perceived the basic misbehavior of Weiner as being so trashy — or already pathetic enough — that any piling on wouldn’t have been considered necessary. IOW, they wouldn’t have felt a need to create additional “gotcha!” moments.

    Mark (411533)

  103. it’s like a very bad post-modernist novel

    *snicker* nailed it!

    bmertz (d77c52)

  104. Spoken like a true narcissist JD.

    The Tamandua (4de175)

  105. And then any rats in his ship will happily squeal rather than be charged as accessories.

    BINGO

    bmertz (d77c52)

  106. Like I said before, this moved beyond surreal when Rauhauser got involved. Add that to the ronbryn meltdown …

    JD (318f81)

  107. There has been a blizzard of asshattery recently.

    JD (318f81)

  108. JD – The Anteater sounds similar to Christoph to me. He was on a couple of Lee’s recent podcasts stirring sh*t about Dustin and there is no love lost between you two. He sounded like a young, fast talking, weenie boy, not like his tough commenting persona. I LOL’d.

    One of Christoph’s favorite tactics is to accuse you of what he was actually doing.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  109. @ 65 that Twitter account is AndrewBreibart (minus the T). It is someone trolling around not the real Andrew B.

    Noodels (3681c4)

  110. He sounded like a young, fast talking, weenie boy, not like his tough commenting persona. I LOL’d.

    Heh. I think I heard his voice on one of those.

    I’ll check.

    Patterico (135ea8)

  111. OK, I am going to bed in aid of my goal of being a good worker in the morning.

    If anything really great breaks overnight, here’s hoping it shows up as a “breaking!” headline somewhere.

    Thanks, Patterico, for putting up with my chatter.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  112. Daley, you are either delusional or pathetically trying to save face for Dustin and JD. Which is it?

    The Tamandua (4de175)

  113. Daley – it is sad that the likes of whoever it is simply must continue to hide behind multiple names, changing ID’s, etc … They are cowardly and pathetic.

    JD (318f81)

  114. The @andrewbreibart account was started on May 15. It is designed to fool people into thinking outrageous things were said by Andrew Breitbart.

    Check out the followers and following.

    Yuh-huh.

    And the style? Getting normal people angry at someone on the right by pretending to be someone on the right, and doing something outrageous.

    Now what was the theory of my post again?

    Yuh-huh.

    Hi Neal!

    Patterico (135ea8)

  115. Noodels – Thanks. Missed that. I heard somebody was faking an account for him. I did not pick up the spelling error.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  116. Your politically motivated actor hates Lee and Breitbart. So he calls in a death threat to Jenny pretending to be Lee? That’s awfully late in the game to do that as a first action, and it explains very little of this whole saga, so you must suspect more of him – running the sock puppets as a sting. That puts us back to one actor with some misdirection by a hoaxer phoning Lee.

    Okay, that’s better.

    I’m still inclined doubt it, though, and here’s why. It’s provable Lee didn’t make that call. Trying to get at Lee that way is a boneheaded thing to do, because if you’re caught, you’re in trouble. But if you threaten yourself, the worst (practically speaking) is that you’re taken as a metal case. Less risk, greater payoff if the misdirection succeeds.

    As long as we’re speculating here, I’ll run with another line, but in a separate comment.

    Nathan Wagner (01c83e)

  117. JD,
    I think the guy was really scared of Neal.

    (Now speculating on the possible post-modern plot bunny) :

    Ron was drawn into some sort of plot (probably the sockpuppets) and then ended up being discarded by Jen Preston. Ron blows up on twitter, threatens to talk ,and then Neal tells him to shut up or face the consequences. Ron goes to Patterico

    bmertz (d77c52)

  118. “Daley, you are either delusional or pathetically trying to save face for Dustin and JD. Which is it?”

    The Tamandua – Your style is familiar and your mask is slipping. What names have you commented under here before. You can tell us. Lighten up, we’re your “new” friends after all.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  119. I’m still inclined doubt it, though, and here’s why. It’s provable Lee didn’t make that call. Trying to get at Lee that way is a boneheaded thing to do, because if you’re caught, you’re in trouble.

    Yeah. True enough.

    And I hope whoever did it DOES get in trouble. If they did.

    I have to say I find your reasoning highly, highly unpersuasive, for reasons I can’t get into right now.

    To me, this theory is highly satisfying on several levels.

    Patterico (135ea8)

  120. “Daley, you are either delusional or pathetically trying to save face for Dustin and JD. Which is it?”

    The Tamandua – The above is not a denial. Nice try.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  121. Daley – it’s attacks on Dana were way out of proportion, and show a complete lack of character and basic awareness on it’s behalf.

    JD (318f81)

  122. So here’s the other speculative line, developing the theory Lee’s hinted at.

    Politicians attract acolytes. Some of them can be obsessive and dangerous. Suppose the woman behind starchild111 was so to Weiner long before Weinergate started. Suppose she was rebuffed. Unable to follow him in her own person, she goes for the avatars, hoping to meet him for an affair or to exact revenge.

    Can we find out whether there were restraining orders against anyone following Weiner, or if security knew of any such person?

    Nathan Wagner (01c83e)

  123. So Patterico,

    The new working assumption is that someone on the left was running a sockpuppet honey pot to catch Breitbart but it turned out the Rep Weiner really was engaging in risky internet behavior and got caught up in the honey trap?

    So then the sockpuppets had to switch plans and run a cross to drag Lee into some accused / alleged threats against someone that he appeared unable to find?

    I am truly lost on this holiday weekend. I was hoping for your latest data dump that might provide us some additional data on the who / what / when / where / why of the Reids… ;-(

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  124. All right, Pat. I’ll defer to your greater evidence.

    Nathan Wagner (01c83e)

  125. Unable to follow him in her own person, she goes for the avatars, hoping to meet him for an affair or to exact revenge.

    That one was on my top of the list ie The 800 pound lady that goes into a romance chat room

    bmertz (d77c52)

  126. Nathan, I think the identify of restraining order ‘victims’ is often confidential.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  127. Gleen Grenwald talked about himself in third person better than Yelverton the Whiner does in his thread-jacks here. Even John Hitchcock knows that.

    John Hitchcock (9e8ad9)

  128. This situation is too fascinating. I can’t leave

    bmertz (d77c52)

  129. Hitch – it is always amusing when it goes all gender-bender too.

    JD (318f81)

  130. Okay, I have followed this from the beginning but had never heard of this Neal guy except I had read some of his tweets lately on Twitter.

    After much internet sleuthing (see Google search)he sure seems to fit the MO of someone who would be involved in something like this (see paid internet troll).

    Noodles (3681c4)

  131. Was Dustin right? Is it a piccolo? For some reason my recollection is that it was a flute of some sort.

    elissa (f08e75)

  132. “Daley – it’s attacks on Dana were way out of proportion, and show a complete lack of character and basic awareness on it’s behalf.”

    JD – Exactly. If anybody’s gonna attack our womynfolk it should be us. Not that they can’t defend themselves. Heh.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  133. Where is Underdog when you need him?

    bmertz (d77c52)

  134. I’m taking notes for Maybee and Sarah daley!

    bmertz (d77c52)

  135. Goodnight, racists.

    JD (318f81)

  136. Goodnight, racists.

    I resemble that remark!

    John Hitchcock (9e8ad9)

  137. #129, me too, bmertz!

    It is ‘funny’ that because of the internet, a handful of crazed individuals can have such an effect. They would otherwise be so irrelevant. I suppose that is exactly the kind of person that desperately lashes out on the internet – the otherwise irrelevant.

    Crispian (70c05e)

  138. Wow. I feel kind of dumb for not knowing about “Twittergate”. I will have to read more on that tomorrow.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  139. Crispian
    The nature of the net changes status, just as it changed elections, and fortunes. The net magnifies the power of the few.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  140. Surreal

    or is it more like a Séance? I’m waiting for the rapping on the table to begin.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  141. Will Neal choose someone to start channeling to us?

    bmertz (d77c52)

  142. Patterico
    Was Wagner =Neal too?

    bmertz (d77c52)

  143. Neal Rauhauser’s tweets are now protected, I suspect his blender to be the culprit.

    Crispian (70c05e)

  144. The haunted blender? oh the horror

    bmertz (d77c52)

  145. well, this has been fascinating. But i have a life tomorrow. Goodnight all.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  146. Perhaps. I don’t want to libel his blender. Not after the way Weiner’s blender was accused. But Weiner’s blender appears to have been the only innocent party implicated in the whole affair.

    Crispian (70c05e)

  147. Night, I’ll be in search of one as well.

    Crispian (70c05e)

  148. Crispian,

    The blender was never guilty. It was only accused of being the next likely failure.

    Tivo shot. FB hacked. Is my blender gonna attack me next? #TheToasterIsVeryLoyal
    28 May

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  149. “Was Dustin right? Is it a piccolo?”

    elissa – It’s definitely smaller than a normal skin flute. His inbreeding, doncha know.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  150. Just a warning, we are about T-minus 18 hours before we hit then next weekend to have a Twitter Hack, Hoax or what not as we head into the July 4th weekend.

    Place your bets early for your favorite Sockpuppets NOW.

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  151. I suspect the answer to your post is that it is eminently possible and there aren’t any good arguments, given what little I’ve seen of the details so far, to show the theory is not possible.

    But statement one and statement two don’t necessarily require any coordination or relationship between the actions. They are incidents that may or may not be related (other than a similar name being involved) but assuming a relationship without more information may well be misleading. The alleged threats against “the real Jennifer George” could be based on little more than the information on Lee’s site and this site, possibly with the sole purpose of smearing Lee, Breitbart and Patterico. By allegedly naming Lee in such a threat, the smear would have wide-ranging effects.

    Sue (24e46b)

  152. please note that the AB listed is misspelled and is a sock in those tweets. Notice no “t” in Brei”t”bart.

    freedom_costs (51c21c)

  153. 109. JD

    One of Christoph’s favorite tactics is to accuse you of what he was actually doing.

    That is Ann Coulter’s definition of a Democrat.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  154. This theory is stupid.

    The woman calling lee were lying, an innocent JG wouldn’t do that.

    So assume that the caller was a hoaxer, why not lead Lee directly to JG in MA?

    Why would an innocent JG in MA first accuse Lee for the threats and then change it to “Lee follower”.

    Was the police report also filed by the hoaxer?
    That’s a crime, and now the hoaxer has showed herself to the police.
    And why tone it down just to “lee follower” if it was a hoaxer doing the filing?

    This is like the first weiner defense “Breitbart hacked me”.

    Breitbart was the one asking for a full investigation.

    If there’s someone that really threatened JG , Lee is the person who’s the most interested to see who’s behind that.

    If there’s a third person or group out there threatening people , every honest person want them caught.

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  155. 32.@goatsred Who leaked all that stuff to the Smoking Gun about you? Patriot?

    Comment by Ms. Alicia Pain — 6/30/2011 @ 9:36 pm

    Things that were leaked lead to me to certain people.But that’s a thing of the past.

    goatsred (b20383)

  156. Having just read through these comments, flame wars, misattributed quotes and conflicting recaps I’m more confused than ever. When did Ron Brynaert get involved in this?

    My gut says:

    NH = AP. Possibly more. NH seems to be the guy who pointed Smoking Gun at DW and Mike. It fits his MO.

    This post-Weiner saga will be tied up by the end of next week IMO. Certain previously-involved-in-sock puppet-Twitter-scandal people aren’t as smart as they think they are. That’s their undoing. I’m calling it now.

    coondawg68 (5fad4e)

  157. simple neal marry
    his sister aunt pain and mom
    marry his uncle

    ColonelHaiku (e761c8)

  158. Drat
    Definitely on the wrong schedule for this but it makes great coffee reading
    Tarantella ? Tarantula?tabula rasa? They make pills for that.
    A pain? Rock. On. Don’t forget to use the kiddie scissors

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  159. John Hitchcock @ 11:06 pm wins the thread, I think.

    Chris Chittleborough (34e482)

  160. 157 coondawg68

    who is NH?

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  161. 97 Joe

    1) The timing of the call Lee received was 15 to 20 mins after Lee had sent an email with his phone number to the other JG in CA saying “please call me about @starchild111.” He soon gets a call “Hi Lee, this is JG and I started @starchild111″ He first took that to mean that JG in CA had received his email and called him, a logical conclusion at the moment. He said this on the radio. post hoc ergo propter hoc. He then went into detail about why this proved (90%) it was JG CA…. but that was all mistaken. He has clarified that it was not JG CA afterward a number of times. But you have to listen to his radio shows a number of times to figure out what he thought at one moment and how that changed over time.

    Turns out to have been a coincidence.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  162. If anyone can provide a soup-to-nuts time line or cast list for this melodrama? I’d appreciate it.

    RCJParry (625550)

  163. “The woman calling lee were lying, an innocent JG wouldn’t do that.”

    Temper Tantrum – Why make those assumptions?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  164. coondawg68 – You are thankfully unaware of our serial sockpuppeting visitor who has been a plague to this site.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  165. 166. Deception indicates…a deceiver.

    SarahW (af7312)

  166. We can explain anything with “that one was a fake person” (without proving that assertion) and “here’s what s/he said: these things that were true (because they fit my theory) and these things that were obviously lies (because they don’t fit my theory)”

    Thing is, truth and lies are things to be confirmed with evidence, testimony, contrary facts, conflicts, corroboration, etc., not merely with whether they fit the analyst’s current beliefs or not.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  167. koam @wittier – Are you suggesting we should modify Lee’s proof by proclamation or it’s true because you can’t prove me wrong standards? Seriously?

    That’s crazy talk!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  168. I know no one’s seen the BPD report filed by JG MA.

    But in the conversations with the detective, or on the call from JG to Lee, is it evident that the 2 messages left on JG’s answering machine were from a male?

    Lee, when detective calls you, do you discuss what JG’s story at her home was relative to the “answering machine” messages left for her?

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  169. A few questions of my own:

    Where is the police paper work, has there been any attempt to retrieve it.

    There would be reports, plural – the original, attached to the follow up interviews.

    At what stage of progess is the investigation into threats against P., threats against Ace, and Mike Stack (an perhaps others unknown to me).

    Do these investigations provide any additional standing to affected persons to collect information about threats received by others?

    *************
    The report would have some description of the woman making the complaint.

    I’m not sure how redacted the reports would be – but to a detective or attorney or prosecutor seeking relevant information that could pertain to similar threats they are investigating, perhaps the reports would be available in their entirety and the Detective (Thornton?) would be willing to discuss the particulars.

    *****************

    The UCLA professor who runs writing seminars has been used as a sort of reference by Lee’s Caller/report-maker He has spoken to him, and so has Jan Preston.

    It seems logical to me that if the prof were kind enough to speak to Lee about his student JG, that he would be glad to help rule out a poser.

    Has Lee attempted to re-contact the professor?
    (I doubt)

    Has anyone asked Jan Preston if the prof more clearly established his pupil and the Boston caller are one and the same person that the information Lee has given us?

    She shouldn’t be trusted to be telling the truth on that point, ever, until there is more solid confirmation.

    Even if she is innocent and lying without need of lying, she IS a liar. So, no trust.

    SarahW (af7312)

  170. Temper Tantrum – I believe Lee is Dan Wolfe. I have seen no direct evidence to contradict this fact therefore it is proven.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  171. Also, who has an answering machine anymore? Most people use voicemail.

    Younger people usually don’t even have landlines.

    SarahW (af7312)

  172. 170 daleyrocks.
    I enjoy all that as part of the mix. It’s part of our challenge to discern facts & testimony from enthusiasm for theories. It’s all good. Gives us something to do. But you’re right, “it’s true because you can’t prove me wrong” is what we grapple with.

    But when there’s a list of notes on a particular event, you have to take each item and either support or refute it with other actual evidence from stated sources. This analysis may also be flawed but at least you’ve done the work.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  173. “The report would have some description of the woman making the complaint.”

    SarahW – If somebody is actually in touch with that woman, perhaps she could be persuaded to release a copy of the police report.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  174. “Also, who has an answering machine anymore? Most people use voicemail.”

    Guilty!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  175. 165. If anyone can provide a soup-to-nuts time line or cast list for this melodrama? I’d appreciate it.

    Maybe we can set up a wiki. One person starts, lists a few things and other people add or correct things.

    Find old messages and posts.

    Reading this over and over leads to new insights, and that should be done. It is important to go over and over all of this again and again. If you missed something after 100 times, you might gain an insight on the 101st time, especially if you now have new information.

    While doing this, you might want to temporarily assume various things and see where this gets you.

    Maybe you could get a Talmudic scholar or a Ph.D in history to take a shot at solving this.

    One thing:

    There have to be at least 3 hoaxers, for two separate reasons:

    1> At one point, Nikki, Marianela, and John2487 (whi was renamed to Juan_Dodgers) held a twitter conversation about a baseball game. (This needs verification)

    Q. What baseball game and who else was talking about that baseball game at the same time?? Does anyone have them?

    As a start, my speculation would be that JANE AUSTEN (the person who originally established the starchild111 account, but turned it over to LILY sometime around the time OPERATION WEINER SCHNITZEL was conceived) keyboarded Marianela, LILY was Nikki, and I would guess that REMBRANDT (aka seattle545?) was John2487.

    REMBRANDT was the “painter”, but not necessarily the uploader, and certainly not the original author, of the fake twitter messages between RAW (Weiner) and SNOOPY.

    SNOOPY is the person now trying to find out the true identity of John Reid, whom she thinks is the RED BARON, but may really only be SOCKREID.

    Earlier, before the scandal broke, SNOOPY was trying to uncover who really was starchild111 and in general, determine what was going on.

    2> The second set of screencaps that seattle545 posted (on June 20) don’t make too much sense unless you assume at least three people were involved:

    1) An original author – who wrote and emailed in or faxed the dialogue.

    2) A screen painter, who got started the wrong way.

    3) The screen painter’s boss, or his bosses’s boss, who got the screen painter to post them before they were ready and while they were in a completely wrong and mixed up order (which he did not know.

    I can’t think that all this has been done by one person, and there is at least one female voice involved. Could one person have done both the JG threat, and Mrs. Patricia Reid? Did anyone speak to both of them?

    Perhaps any males may be afraid their voice(s) might be recognized, especially if taped and widely circulated.

    Sammy Finkelman (907727)

  176. 174 SarahW

    (I get my voice messages transcribed by google voice into emails and text messages, so I hardly have to even listen to them, unless I need to clarify something that the transcription got wrong)

    Yes I agree and we were discussing “who still has answering machines?” earlier. Someone who lives with mom & dad, maybe?

    It could have been a paraphrase by JG or Lee. “Playing Telephone” as it were. If JG’s early 20s then maybe the term “answering machine” is more hardwired into Lee’s brain (device that came of age in his generation) and it’s just his default term for anything that records messages. But it could be either or neither.

    Or maybe there’s an answering machine (or voicemail). If so, a record. We need that.

    If she got 2 death threats and deleted them and then went to cops, well then she deserves not to be believed. But no one has told us if that’s what happened or not.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  177. koam @wittier – There you go with that generation bashing stuff. I’m just too old to understand this stuff, I guess. Heh.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  178. daleyrocks, you’re just BS:ing right.

    If someone really were threatening JG why would she call Lee first before she even called the police, and lie to him.

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  179. Points to note – who has talked to people on phone?

    Tommy (real person) talked to female(s). He still hasn’t said if it was both Patricia and Nikki or not. (Were there two voices that Tommy believed to be two people? Did TC talk to Marianela?)

    Lee & Preston (real people) talked to female JG MA.

    JG MA (real person who filed BPD report) claims answering machine messages received, presumably from a male threatener.

    JG MA who called Lee, same as above or not, presumably got message from male threatener

    Who else has talked to people on phone? (Pat?, Mike?…not to our knowledge. Ron? anyone?)

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  180. More:

    Professor & Wife (real people) know JG MA, a female

    BPD desk officer & BPD Detective (real people) both met face-to-face with JG MA a female

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  181. “daleyrocks, you’re just BS:ing right.”

    Temper Tantrum – Using established Stranahan standards of proof, I believe Lee is Dan Wolfe. There is no direct compelling evidence proving otherwise. Prove me wrong.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  182. Koam , didn’t Tommyx just talk to the “mother”?

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  183. Lee, what is the timing of these events?

    – the 6/19 teary call you received from a JG
    – That same has JG call(s) with Preston
    – your 6/20 radio show in which you describe call details
    – any internet posts, comments, tweets etc. that you made regarding receiving call from JG
    – A real JG from Boston files police report at BPD precinct.

    In short, how much info, if any, was out there on your radio show and online from you regarding the JG call you received before the real JG MA filed the report at BPD?

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  184. Which lies that Lee attributes to his JG MA caller are concretely lies, supported by facts?

    - The caller says she’s not following politics, doesn’t recognize Weiner story other than through entertainment TV shows, but the prof says she’s very liberal. Someone can be very liberal and not follow politics or watch news over entertainment. The prof’s assessment is subjective and this area doesn’t amount to a concrete lie.

    - Lee says that JG MA said she is/was in LA and is/was a student at UCLA. Did the prof say that JG MA only attended his retreats and she never attended UCLA? Did he say he only knows her from his out-of-state retreat home? That would be a factual conflict from her very own “proving I’m a real person” contact. But we don’t have the specifics on that.

    So which are the JG MA lies that are proven by facts rather than assertions?

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  185. I have an answering machine! It just seemed easier when we moved to deal with that than to figure out who to do what for whichever phone bundle we were going to purchase. I hardly get any calls on my landline that are worth any effort.

    MayBee (081489)

  186. 185. Temper Tantrum

    Tommy did describe talking to the mom, Patricia Reid. In supposedly clarifying follow up articles, Colby Hall, Tommy’s editor, says that Tommy had extensive email and telephone contacts with these sources (Patricia, Nikki, & Marianela).

    I don’t believe that it clear from the phrasings in the Colby/Tommy “we were fooled, but that’s ok, we’re not stupid” articles whether Tommy feels like he talked to more than one female or not,

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  187. 181. temper

    We need a more solid timeline of those events. The sequence in which we all learn of events isn’t necessarily the sequence of when they happened.

    The Detective called Lee some days after the report was filed at the precinct.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  188. Gaaah!

    I spent some time yesterday trying to draw the scenario that if a professor of mine was called long distance by a policeman or by a journalist and was asked if he had ever had an elissa as a past student–the prof would say truthfully, “why, yes I did”. But in no way would the prof’s statement prove that the person standing in front of the policemen, or the person who had called the journalists claiming to be elissa was the same real elissa person the prof actually had taught in class.

    Ergo, unless a picture identification of some sort was shared and compared between the policeman and the prof (or better yet with the school’s repository of student ID photos), then the prof’s statement is utterly meaningless. If such an ID comparison DID take place then that needs to be stated as fact–as evidence. Was it? I think this point is a question many people have but is a question that never quite seems to get answered. Knowing this would surely help in determining with more certainty what lies “JGMA” is/is not telling.

    elissa (961c7a)

  189. koam, I think one reason Lee got this “single person sock puppet master” theory is because he only heard about one woman talking to Tommyx, the “mother”.
    If there were many women ( real ones on phone ) behind those twitter identities , it would falsify his theory.
    It would also make it less plausible that it’s a conspiracy.

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  190. Koam…

    Tommy only spoke to Patrica Reid by phone according to John Reid’s answer:

    “There were phone calls with Tommy and my wife, there were emails with Tommy and Nikki andTommy and my wife, There were twitter DM’s with Tommy and Nikki. Other media tried to contactNikki but Tommy was a good hearted person, we trusted him.”

    Which correlates to NYT fake ID story
    http://nyti.ms/iGUfHt

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  191. elissa- I agree

    MayBee (081489)

  192. “koam, I think one reason Lee got this “single person sock puppet master” theory is because he only heard about one woman talking to Tommyx, the “mother”.”

    Temper Tantrum – Exactly why it would be helpful to diagram who has communicated with whom and via what medium, phone versus electronic. Saying the same person talked to Jen Preston adds nothing if we don’t have verified ID.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  193. Throwing out an idea:
    Could Neal be the Sockpuppet master?
    What about the possibility that the different sockpuppets were members of the Bean Posse Trolls? J in MA could be a member. Records show that NR had women among his attack troll staff. He could still be the Sockpuppet Master playing personalities, but he had minions to draw from as well. At least to provide a female voice.

    Sherlock (d77c52)

  194. Temper Tantrum – Lee may get upset with people here questioning his conclusions, but I don’t think he has been writing here long enough to understand that among the regulars, and certainly I see it with some of the newcomers, there are people with experience and skills with which he is unfamiliar in investigating fraud and other activities or just logical ability that are not convinced he’s got everything pinned down.

    It’s not a slam on Lee, it’s a function of experience. Lee has been incredibly doggedf and patient in pursuing this story.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  195. daleyrock, my feeling is that Tommyx and Jen aren’t very cooperative, or worse. They hoped for the VRWC to show up.

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  196. Elissa, and Maybee it is a loose end and one that’s been driving me to distraction, not because I’m set on some theory that JGcaller is not JGstudent.

    All I get in response to questions about it is “who would do that” and circular logic as proof.

    SarahW (af7312)

  197. #195

    From what I can recall:

    Eliminating JG-CA phone calls and regarding phone calls

    - LG with MA accent spoke with Stranahan and preston
    - Patricia Reid Spoke with Tommy

    Personally, more revealing at this stage for me to keep track of those “involved” that have not spoken on the phone:

    -Nikki
    -John Reid
    -Marianela
    -Marianela’s parents (don’t recall ANY contact)
    -Alicia Pain (obviously)
    -Seattle545
    -Patriot

    May have missed some

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  198. SarahW , the reason I think JG caller is JG student is because she was making evasive lies talking to Lee, because she got something to hide.

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  199. Agreed, Sarah. It’s an excellent thing to be distracted about.

    “Who would do that?” always seems like such a logical way to think, except people do really nonsensical things all the time.

    MayBee (081489)

  200. Of Course, also Gennette has spoken on phone and “interviewed” in person

    And of course the weiner sexting woman that have come forward have as well

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  201. Temper Tantrum @198 – Agreed. Lee is also being overly defensive of JP and Tommy X IMHO.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  202. Maybee and SarahW–thank you. Yes, we (and others too) have been bringing up this issue in various ways and on multiple threads for days now. Part of what has been so frustrating about it for me is that I still cannot tell if the question/concern/logic about ID verification is just not getting through–or whether it is purposely being ignored for some reason.

    elissa (961c7a)

  203. I know I keep harping on this, but for all the deviousness there really didn’t seem to have been much of a strategy.

    MayBee (081489)

  204. Maybee, but the person who called Lee had some very specific information.It would make the story even more complex.

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  205. Elissa, the police who filed the report should have a verified identity.Dont know if that’s public information.

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  206. 208. TT
    presumably 1 of at least 2 police who met JG MA in person confirmed that she is who she says she is via license or address info, etc.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  207. 199 SarahW

    see my 187. I’m not saying “who would do that?” I agree with you: we need to know what lies are proven in JG call. Lee labels half of conversation as lies. But we need harder evidence that some of them are actual, proven lies.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  208. “I know I keep harping on this, but for all the deviousness there really didn’t seem to have been much of a strategy.”

    MayBee – That is the strategy.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  209. On Lee’s Blog talk Radio show last nite he said:

    ‘NY Times reporter Jen Preston talked by phone with the Boston Jenny George and got the name of the screen writing professor from her. Preston called him and talked to him and his wife. At that point Preston tried to shut down the whole investigation, claiming the professor’s website was faked and he may have been related to the Sockpuppet posse and possibly the Yessmen or Anonymous. So Lee decided to call the professor and claims “everything checked out,” relating to the professor’s legitimacy and what he said about the Boston Jenny George. Lee believed Preston’s decision to not follow up was the result of contact with Ron Brynaert and, “A bunch of other people.”’

    To me, the important information here, which I had not heard before, is that Preston called and talked to the Boston Jenny George. That discussion is where Lee got the contact info for the UCLA Professor. Many of the facts garnered by Jen Preston in her conversation with JG coincide with the information provided by the person claiming to be Jenny George that called Lee. Such that the accent Lee noted and her claim that she was originally from Massachusetts was consistent with the fact that Preston called a Jenny George in Boston; the spelling of the first name, Jenny; the connection to the UCLA screenwriting program.

    To me, it is very likely that the person who called Lee claiming to be the Jenny George who set up the starchild111 account, is the same person that Jen Preston called in Boston- Maybe Lee can provide even more corroborating evidence. This makes Patterico’s first hypothetical- The person claiming to be “Jennifer George” who called Lee was a hoaxer- very unlikely. I think it is very reasonable to conclude at this point that the Boston Jenny George set up the starchild111 account and is Jenay=Nikki=JohnReid9 , among others (The Sockpuppet posse).

    Lee also appeared last nite on Larry O’Connor Stage Right Show. O’Connor said, ” … that Content of death threats to Jenny George sounded almost identical to death threats to Patterico.” This I had not heard before. The threats to the Boston Jenny George were reported to Lee by her in her call to him, but not detailed, yet the threats to Patterico were made after JG’s call to Lee. There was no public knowledge of the details of both threats until JG filed her police complaint. If O’Connor is correct in his characterization that both threats sounded almost identical, that means the same person made both threats. At this point I believe that there is not enough evidence available to this forum to even suggest whetehr JG made the threats to herself and to Patterico, or someone else made the threats to both Patterico and JG- of course there seems to be other facts floating around that people have not yet disclosed.

    If it were JG making threat to herself and Patterio, that would tie things up into a nice neat package. If it were someone else, that creates the problem, noted earlier by Nathan Wagner, of introducing an additional actor. It also creates a motive problem. That is, Patterico and the commenters on his forum seem to be moving towards unmasking the Boston Jenny George as the Sockpuppre Posse. That makes JG and Patterico antagonists. Why would someone be threatening them both?

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  210. “To me, it is very likely that the person who called Lee claiming to be the Jenny George who set up the starchild111 account, is the same person that Jen Preston called in Boston”

    lamchopsl – I don’t believe anybody has been disputing this. Did not Lee encourage Boston Jenny to call Jen Preston? It proves nothing. Same person or hoaxer talked to both Lee and Jen. So what?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  211. I concur with daleyrocks.

    So far about the JGMA person it sounds like we only have Stranahan’s say-so. I am absolutely not saying he is lying. But until that person’s identity is independently confirmed – not via phone without reference to a face by both sides – I don’t treat it as the unadulterated truth.

    And we have Preston apparently saying the professor is fake? Have we confirmed that not to be the case? I don’t think Preston would need to make that up merely to get out of investigating.

    Again, all due respect to Stranahan, but we need to get concrete verification. At the moment, the identity of JG does not conflict with Patterico’s theory.

    Crispian (70c05e)

  212. I haven’t followed comment threads closely enough to be sure no one has proposed this, but wouldn’t a simple explanation be that there are two separate sock-puppet masters, each with different agendas?

    1. JG in Mass creates Starchild account to follow and try to get attention from various celebrities. She becomes interested in Weiner because she sees him on television, changes Starchild to Nikki account to try to get his attention just because he’s a minor celebrity and she likes him. She fishes for Genette, who, being more internet savvy, realizes Nikki is fake but goes along (normal way to try to get attention from someone on Twitter or FB is to try to work up ladder of friends). She’s not trying to get Genette to give away anything about sexting, because she doesn’t suspect it, but just wants attention from minor celebrity Weiner.

    When scandal hits, she wants to help out “her” guy and realizes that a high-school girl who can testify to Weiner’s being a gentleman is useful. She invents the whole Reid family, etc., and is trying to support Weiner until she realizes she is in over her head.

    2. Patriot is a sock for someone who is wants to trap the “right” into something stupid. He’s hoping to get Breitbart to bite on a manufactured story about Weiner that can then be turned into an embarrassment.

    Why Weiner? Because people reading his tweets / following on FB realized he followed attractive young women. JG (as Nikki) wants to be one of them. The bornfree crew thinks he’s a sleaze. Patriot thinks that the right wing has gone overboard and sees an opportunity to set a trap for overzealous right wing.

    This all gets so complicated because it turns out the Weiner actually _is_ sexting people.

    (maybe Weiner’s tweet to Genette wasn’t because he mistook @ for D, but rather that he was chatting with 2 people at once and put the dick-pic in the wrong tweet. The tweet to Genette was intended to be public but include no pic–just letting everybody know he’s on TV, but in “modest” way. The dick-pic was intended to go into a different chat window to other sexting partner).

    I’m sure there are flaw with this line of reasoning, but it does seem like a simpler story line than some being proposed.

    Wondering (cf5138)

  213. Well said, Crispian.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  214. 213. daleyrocks

    It was my understanding that Jen Preston called and verified Jenny George’s identity separately. Keep in mind that the JG who called Lee claimed she lived in CA and the JG Preston spoke with was confirmed to be in Boston.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  215. I think that’s possible, but doesn’t change how to proceed in confirming that theory. The most dangerous thing would be to assume veracity of facts that would limit how to proceed (eg assuming JG is exactly who she is claimed to be).

    Crispian (70c05e)

  216. daleyrocks , if the police has verified an Id and address, it should be possible to unravel this.
    If JG MA is innocent , it should be possible to trace the threats.

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  217. Who sent the gym photos to the NE?

    SusanT (355042)

  218. lamchopsl,

    I missed that part where Lee said Jen Preston tried to shut down the investigation, she was looking for the VRWC so she probably didn’t like what she heard.

    If Preston verified JG MA:s ID, I understand how Lee can be so sure.

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  219. 215. Wondering

    Re: #2., if Patriot was trying to punk the right, why did he send the dicpic to Breitbart, destroying A. Weiner?

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  220. lamchopsl,

    Might depend on Gennette’s honesty in this affair. Perhaps the “best laid plan” wasn’t realistically conceived.

    Crispian (70c05e)

  221. 221. Temper Tantrum

    Lee seems to be insinuating that Preston has ulterior motives. I think he said as much on O’Connor’s show. He’s suggesting that the NY Times and Preston don’t want to let the story get out if it shows that A. Weiner was done in by a liberal woman. Plus, preston and the NY Times have already declared the Weiner grinders to be part of the VRWC.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  222. Number 212:

    On Lee’s Blog talk Radio show last nite he said:

    ‘NY Times reporter Jen Preston talked by phone with the Boston Jenny George and got the name of the screen writing professor from her. Preston called him and talked to him and his wife. At that point Preston tried to shut down the whole investigation, claiming the professor’s website was faked and he may have been related to the Sockpuppet posse….

    Well, it is an obvious suspicion that the Profeessor could be a KAOS agent. Now Jennifer Preston is saying that.

    Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb)

  223. The professor isn’t fake. She thought his writer-colony website might have been a phony.

    Hoax websites have bindun so, the obvious questions is what might Jan Preston know that I don’t that tipped her to a hoax site.

    The profs site is old though. Really old, at least ten years old, and in the wayback, and the contents have evolved very gradually and it is still essentially the same (with updates) as it has been in recent years.

    In other words, the only way it is fake is if it has been hijacked, and there is no sign of that. The prof is still living. He can be contacted through UCLA for confirmation, too, (which I wish someone would do – though I won’t be doing it) and his phone numbers haven’t changed over the years

    His website is an external source on his wiki page, and just a cursory check of Wikipedia updates show that same site was linked on the wiki at LEAST as far back as 2006 when an update to its formatting on the wiki page was done.

    The who is conceals the owner of the site, and it was recently updated, but one is common and the other necessary to keep the domain name. And the site hasn’t changed in any significant way, not that I can detect.

    So he’s real and his website it real.

    Someone should talk to him in person, in the flesh, or through UCLA, just in case he’s in Europe and has mischievious house sitter taking his calls.

    SarahW (af7312)

  224. Re: #2., if Patriot was trying to punk the right, why did he send the dicpic to Breitbart, destroying A. Weiner

    Outside of Lee’s jilted lover theory- and going back to the theory on Weiner’s future NYC democratic opponent . Some democratic group could be ridding themselves of their future opponent, OR someone in the Democratic party saw Weiner as a future MESS that would eventually explode and hurt their party. The info on Weiner was already out there, so there was going to be some sort of scandal. So why not do a controlled explosion before the NYC election for mayor?

    bmertz (d77c52)

  225. ==It was my understanding that Jen Preston called and verified Jenny George’s identity separately==

    Lamchops–Do you have any insight you can share with us as to exactly how and who Jen Preston called and “identified Jenny Goerge’s identity separately”? If so, please share it.

    elissa (961c7a)

  226. lamchopsl,

    Ulterior motives explains tommyx and Jen Prestons behavior. Why dont these “big J jornos” follow up on this story , it’s intriguing, but they just dropped it.

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  227. @Sarah

    Someone should talk to him in person, in the flesh, or through UCLA, just in case he’s in Europe and has mischievious house sitter taking his calls.

    When professors leave town for a sabbatical to go out of the country they will often do a house trade with another professor needing a temporary house. Sometimes they just switch houses from their different locations while they conduct research,
    OR
    They ask a graduate student to house-sit for them.

    Trivia info if you are interested.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  228. Crispian – Thanks. Remember, Boston Jenny called Lee on a blocked number and the big deal Lee and others have made about nobody being able to track her down. JP did not call Boston Jenny. It was the reverse at Lee’s suggestion if I am recalling correctly. If Boston Jenny kept her story straight between the two calls, it adds nothing to our body of information.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  229. 201. TT, that doesn’t follow. Yes, JGcaller/threatreporter is a liar. It does not then follow that she is JGstudent, one does not suggest the other.

    In fact, the lying and sock-tropes employed by JGcaller are what makes the claim of identity even more suspect.

    A poser, who lies, and forged bios and even ID, would not have a lot more compunction about using someone else’s identity as a screen.

    SarahW (af7312)

  230. It was my understanding that Jen Preston called and verified Jenny George’s identity separately.

    lamchopsl – Remember the PROOF nobody can find Boston Jenny? No sale.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  231. “Lee seems to be insinuating that Preston has ulterior motives.”

    SHOCKA!!!!!!!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  232. “They ask a graduate student to house-sit for them.”

    bmertz – Yup, you had to there. Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  233. 228. elissa

    None, other that the way Lee characterized the conversation between Preston and JG. But…

    Lee had no way of knowing JG lived in Boston, in fact she told him she lived in CA.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  234. 233. daleyrocks

    It is my understanding that the Boston police department took a complaint and interviewed Jenny George, in Boston.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  235. lamchopsl,

    Yes, that is all of our “understanding.” But our understanding is not proof.

    We’re still waiting on verification of JG’s identity.

    Crispian (70c05e)

  236. 238. Crispian

    This is Lee’s description of his interaction with the Boston Police detective:

    http://leestranahan.com/jenny-george-files-police-report-accusing-me-of-making-threats-against-her

    What exactly do you consider to be, “verification of JG’s identity”?

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  237. Who else has talked to people on phone? (Pat?, Mike?…not to our knowledge. Ron? anyone?)

    Nobody…Tried to get Patriot on the phone many times to no avail.

    goatsred (c1f2f8)

  238. I mean, who she is, not just that she exists. We can assume that the police confirmed her identity. Sounds like a reasonable assumption. But beyond that we really don’t know. She is appparently not the JGCA with a background as described by JGMA on the phone to Lee. So who is she? Beyond a name on a police report?

    Crispian (70c05e)

  239. daleyrocks,

    We dont know what type of information Preston got from JG to ID her. Lee’s challenge to find her was very early , there was a blog where her name was published , I dont remember what’s it called.

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  240. 240. goatsred

    My hypothesis is that the reason Patricia Reid spoke with Tommyx on the phone is that the Sockpuppet Posse Master is a woman. She couldn’t represent herself as John Reid. If the person behind Dan Wolfe is a woman, then she cannot talk with anyone on the phone with out revealing her gender.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  241. I am sorry if it looks like I’m singling out specific individuals who I’m sure are commenting here in good faith just so I can try to make this point–again– but statements like:

    “Lee characterized…”

    “…it was my understanding that..”

    “the police who filed the report should have a verified identity”

    presumably 1 of at least 2 police who met JG MA in person confirmed..”

    just are not all that helpful in moving the story forward at this stage of the game when actual, irrefutable facts are what people are really looking for.

    elissa (961c7a)

  242. 232 SarahW. But I dont see the need for a ID thief to be evasive. Why lie you’re in CA if you’re a sock but give the real professor?

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  243. 244. elissa

    I understand your frustration, but there are no irrefutable facts. period. Not in this universe. There are only degrees of certainty.

    Maybe Lee made that Boston detective story up from whole cloth. Even if it was confirmed by someone else, maybe they are conspiring with Lee. It happened to Tommyx. Someone created the JohnReid9 account and the Mark Alecia account 30 minutes apart and 24 hours after the Weiner story broke. Within a few hours these two accounts were used to punk Tommy by seemingly confirming each other’s story.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  244. neal is from iowa. the fbi just raided the home of another iowan, suspected of being a lulzsec member. that person, laurelai bailey also goes by wesley baily and is a pre-surgical transgender. could neal know laurelai? laurelai is a male going female and may sound female on the phone. just a weird iowa coincidence perhaps.

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  245. nancy drew–

    interesting. link?

    elissa (961c7a)

  246. Last Night’s Radio Stranahan
    you can skip the first 20 mins to get to the Jen Preston discussion.

    According to Lee, Preston calls the professor to verify JG’s identity. Preston then calls Lee and says

    “I had mentioned that JP had gotten the name from JG in Boston of the screenwriting Prof. who she’d studied with so she contacted the prof and as i mendtioned before she (JP) talked to him talked to his wife, they both knew because she’d (JG MA) taken classes w teacher not at UCLA but elsewhere. THye said that they knew who she was and I thought that ended it.

    “So here’s the part that i’ve hinted at but haven’t talked about it. I thought next step was NY Times would track down this Jennifer George person and we’ll get at the truth. So what happened was, I got a message from Jen Preston saying:

    ‘I think that we’ve been punked by the UCLA professor and I think it’s been a huge waste of time’

    Lee continues, “I was very curious about this of course because she talked to the prof and I thought some important new fact had been gleaned. Something new and big was going on. So I called her (JP) and I said

    ‘What’s going on? What’s happening? What did you learn?’

    And Jen Preston said: ‘Lee, I just think we’ve been punked on this whole thing.’

    And I said ‘Ok, really? well, why?’

    Because I thought she’d learned something. Like “oh it didn’t check out or the number was wrong.” (this is what Lee imagines Jen P was gonna say)

    And she says: “You just have no idea how deep this goes.

    And I said, “What actually happened?”

    And she said, “I don’t know that his (the prof’s) website is real.”

    [ His website that Preston "suspects" may not be real.

    Google search for Lew Hunter Screenwriting]

    Lee: “And I was like, well, what do you mean? Because I’ve been to his website and it was real (chuckles) It was, it was real (chuckles more).”

    And she was like

    “I don’t even know if it’s real. I don’t even know who who I’ve talked to. These groups that are doing this sockpuppet stuff, you have no idea what they’re capable of. They can fake entire sites. The can get people… “

    Lee: “And I’m just like whoa, whoa, wait a minute, what are you talking about? why do you think that this has happened? do you have some proof?”

    And she’s like: “Lee, you have no idea how deep these things can go. Groups like Anonymous or the Yessmen, they are really capable, they could fake identities.”

    And I say “but YOU called the professor. Right? You looked up the number yourself and you called him and talked to him and his wife, correct?”

    And she’s like, “yeah”

    Lee: “well how could that be fake? (laughs) how could…”

    And she goes, “Look, this goes much deeper than that. “

    Lee: “Well, do you care if I call?”

    She says: “Go ahead; feel free to call.”

    Lee: “I hadn’t wanted to call in because I didn’t want to impose on the person because they’re teaching classes..etc…. so I called in and it checked out. But it made me feel like…and this is why I brought this up…because I like Jen in a lotta ways and I like working with her in a lotta ways and then when I saw this stuff that Ron Brynaert was saying the other day, I thought ‘well, this is sorta beyond the pale.’ Like obviously she’s been talking to Ron and a bunch of other people and rather than tell me she like “I’m talking to different sources and some of them think this and some of them think that…” she had
    bought into this idea to the point to where she wasn’t pursuing things with Jennifer George.
    Even she knew there were lies that Jennifer George had told. And I think that this happening has caused real problems for people. This lack of follow-up caused problems for people. ’cause I think that after that probably, right around that time, Jen George went into the police station and filed a report that I was the person who left death threats. So to me there was a level of credulity (sic) that had been dropped. And my wife was like “this is a reporter from the NYTimes? Why are they buying into this? ” So that’s part of the explanation. Part of what led up to it. …

    “The reason the info about the prof was dropped was there was this belief that the entire website may have been faked. And I tried to tell Jen (Preston) “there’s no way this web site is faked. I’ve heard who this is. ” but even now there’s this theory being floated by some people that there’s some big conspiracy going on that’s much deeper than what it is. and that’s why I say when I heard that the police had visited Jen George in Boston, and that/had confirmed a bunch of things,including that she was in MA, which the screenwriting prof had told us, I was like “well that really sorta changes things.” so anyway, that’s that bit of the story . I’ll probably write it up at some point.

    (Please do, Lee.)

    The part about Preston having Lee’s radio show edited by the CEO of Blog Talk Radio (related to the conversation in which Lee learns from Jen Preston that Prof may have thought JG could be “troubled”)

    “She was like, ‘Oh, you can’t have that up there.’ Asked me if I could and would take it down. I say I dunnow how. She calls CEO of BTR and gets it done.” (paraphrased) Lee says to CEO “I don’t think it needs to be taken down but I’m not arguing at this point.” Preston selects 20 seconds to delete and CEO gets it done.

    So the question is does Jen Preston really entertain the idea that Lew Hunter is a fake person with a fake website? Or has she crafted this excuse just for Lee in hopes that he’ll bite at the story? (To his credit, Lee laughs at the contention.) Does it say what she thinks of Lee? Is Jen Preston spinning false tales to the bloggers now (we’ve seen how she schmoozes her interview candidates) …or does she really buy into the conspiracy theories? (Not that there couldn’t be some conspiracy…but Lee is correct that Lew Hunter isn’t a fake person with a fake website, a fact that should be very obvious to the “NY Times reporter on Technology, Social Media in Politics, Government – and real life”) Did Lee get her drift or not get her drift…was she giving him codewords and hints for his safety?
    Why did she want him to back off so badly?

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  247. @daleyrocks

    Comment by daleyrocks — 7/1/2011 @ 12:13 pm

    Right. They have been hit up to walk dogs and serve the bar too. lol

    Or, help them set up their web pages

    I caught part of a discussion about hijacking web pages /kidnapping?? theory. I didn’t read enough to understand the entire meaning, so I may have misunderstood. It triggered this thought ( you’ll have to forgive me, I have a tendency to toss ideas around ) :

    In that sort of trading houses/house-sitting situation, not only would another professor or a grad student have access to the home, if they are hackers they could also gain access to the desktop computer left at the house. A number of older professors still use desktops and are not computer or web savvy. There is well-known dinosaur that still uses a typewriter and hand writes his notations.

    Ok getting back to the point, if the UCLA professors were out of town, that would also allow their house-sitter to answer the phone to speak to a reporter.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  248. http://gawker.com/5816291 Here’s just one link. I googled both neal and laurelai bailey and discovered the iowa links. they are both in the same business, both ruthless, both extreme leftist and seems like a “fixer” might be in sync ideologically as someone who is part of anonymous and the more militant lulzsec. they see themselves as fixers too. Iowa isn’t that big to have so much internet hacking talent on such an epic scale as these two.

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  249. daleyrocks
    #250
    That was in reference to SarahW’s comment that someone needed to verifiy if the UCLA couple were actually in town and at their home. It is summer.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  250. after reading the lee/jen convo, my suspicions of a link grow more credible. Neal is a very bad and dangerous man. he’s worked on many democrat campaigns and refers to himself as a fixer. maybe he’s part of anonymous too.

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  251. 249. koam @wittier

    Great job with that transcript. I was way too lazy to do that. You are a better man than I- even if you happen to not be a man.

    It’s possible Preston is dumb enough to think she could convince Lee that it was a “fake” website, but I consider it unlikely. I consider it much more likely that she was told to back of by her editor. And not for some vast death-hacker threat to the safety of the solar system, but because the editor and the Times do not want to spend any resources pursuing a story that will refute a previously made perfectly good smear against the Right, while at the same time show that A. Weiner was laid low by a liberal woman. I think the editor told her to back off, and like a good little minion, she backed off.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  252. read up on neal as much as you can. i think he’s the guy making all of the threats and has told jen to shut it down or else. he’s always referring to his connections. go read RonBryn’s twitter. Wow….

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  253. @surreal#253 re: Neal’s Hitlerian Rant

    Congressman Anthony Weiner was stalked, set up, smeared, and this was coordinated to protect Clarence Thomas from scrutiny…Brietbart’s criminal activities

    LMAO Is he serious?

    bmertz (d77c52)

  254. I mean..if hillary and bill are as close to weiner as has been described, don’t you think they are the best folks to know a well known democrat fixer like neal, to fix weiner’s problem? Maybe thats why weiner was reported to have called bill – to apologize to bill??? Hah! think not…it was to get a fixer hired. Wallah! the fake story to tommy xtopher, the fake story to jen and the NY times…Bill and Hill know a lot of fixers and lots of democrats are on record as having hired neal. Hmm? Perhaps? that would be pretty dangerous to unearth wouldn’t it?

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  255. 255 lamchopsl

    GenderAnalyzer said that i’m 93% man, fwiw.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  256. I encourage you to read the link to the daily kos above. that article was written by neal. he included language that anonymous uses to threaten. It is their code. neal said he was given this language to pass along. Then, look at the picture attached. It’s anonymiss, as in female. Is that laurelai bailey helping neal write that aricle?

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  257. that article makes it clear that at least neal was following weiners project to destroy justice thomas. were they working together? looks like neal was trying to create plausible spin, to FIX weiners problem. i hope lee does not back down on this. could be another big scandel worthy of a book. very spy novelish.

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  258. Could that article at Kos be what JP@NYT is running scared from/by?

    surreal (7a67da)

  259. 251. nancydrew

    Iowa isn’t that big to have so much internet hacking talent on such an epic scale as these two.

    LOL! best laugh I’ve had today. Although I hope for your sake that the intrepid Iowahawk does not get wind of your sentiments.

    On a related topic, I noticed that Neal RAThauser (AKA Simon Sinister) made his twitter feed protected this morning. it was not so last nite.

    http://twitter.com/#!/NealRauhauserhttp://twitter.com/#!/NealRauhauser

    How delicious it would be if the FBI swooped in and arrested him for all these death threats. But alas, life never seems to turn out so perfectly.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  260. oh and then you get to the bottom and see that neal ratted by lying on the innocent goatsred. he gives himself away as a fellow traveller of anonymous. i think this is a very big deal. what else is neal up to? he’s close to weiner which puts him close to hillary, the secretary of state, and bill, a former, yet discredited president, who likely still can be blackmailed over post whitehouse behavior. just speculatin..not good. The real scandal on weinergate was the potential to compromise the secretary of state.

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  261. 257.LMAO Is he serious?

    Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 1:50 pm

    Truthfully, I have no idea. But I think *he* takes it seriously, for whatever that’s worth.

    There’s a thin line between dedication, and obsession, IFYWIM.

    surreal (7a67da)

  262. I read iowahawk. He’s hysterically funny…I’m one myself. That’s why the iowa connection between the two caught my eye and I decided to see if some dots could be connected. I think those dots are now pretty well connected.

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  263. His level of hate raises the eyebrow:
    DK:
    Neal’s Rant on Punishing Breitbart’s Enablers

    When you read this, Ms. Loesch, and I know you will, I have a personal request for you. Go get with discredited, disorganized dullards @SwiftRead and @GregWHoward of Twittergate fame, and then show me those pretty, pouty lips of yours saying my name on PJTV again

    I read about what Sinister did to those poor guys on the article link someone posted today. How did he not end up in jail? No one did anything about it?

    His hate/lust relationship with danaloesch is rather disturbing too. Stalker material in fact. Move over Voldermort, you have competition

    bmertz (d77c52)

  264. His level of hate raises the eyebrow:
    DK:
    Neal’s Rant on Punishing Breitbart’s Enablers

    When you read this, Ms. Loesch, and I know you will, I have a personal request for you. Go get with discredited, disorganized dullards @SwiftRead and @GregWHoward of Twittergate fame, and then show me those pretty, pouty lips of yours saying my name on PJTV again

    I read about what Sinister did to those poor guys on the article link someone posted today. How did he not end up in jail? No one did anything about it?

    His hate/lust relationship with danaloesch is rather disturbing too. Stalker material in fact. Move over Voldermort, you have competition

    bmertz (d77c52)

  265. “We dont know what type of information Preston got from JG to ID her. Lee’s challenge to find her was very early”

    Temper Tantrum – By very early do you mean 6/24 or later, the date of the Nikki Revealed BTR show?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  266. I don’t know how that double posted, My apologies. My server has been refusing to refresh and to post since yesterday.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  267. I don’t really understand all the different theories you all have but I thought it important to add that my Twitter account was hacked back around 6/11. (which is why I closed my Clay_Arts account)Not only were people being randomly unfollowed, messages that I had deleted more than a year prior were showing up as originating in the wrong accounts. Someone else was controlling my account.

    Stillconfused (786412)

  268. goatsred – Serious question. I understand why you are PO’d at PatriotUSA, but in the time you guys were fooling around together as bornfree or whatever, did you ever have any indication that he was not a conservative or that he was a sock.

    I ask, because I find most liberals cannot successfully impersonate a conservative for any length of time because they just don’t understand how we think. You see it with liberal trolls on blogs attempting to fool people. They invariably slip up because they are idiots or too indoctrinated with liberal Kool Aid about conservatives they put their feet in their mouths.

    Did you see any hints of that with your interactions with Patriot to justify all the suspicion being cast his way?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  269. I should clarify…. DM’s were showing up that had been deleted more than a year ago.

    Stillconfused (786412)

  270. live by the sword, die by the sword. Delicious karma on it’s way to neal. hoisted on his own petard. two clever by half? reading his own words in so many different forums you get the idea that he’s the smartest guy out there so you better watch out…and then he ends up leaving too many clues behind and he’s done. Not so smart afterall eh? Anyway, did they ever find the white house travel office manager that disappeared??? I always wondered what happened there.

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  271. clay arts…i read about you in some twitter posts on ronbryn…different accounts and things. can you refresh my memory so I dont’ have to go read through them again? One of the things neal is really good at, it seems, is finding idle twitter accounts and taking them over. He talks about handing over control of various twitter accounts to someone else. It looks like his speciality is creating sock puppets and then working them like sockpuppet sim city. I wonder if one of the JG’s was just an innocent person with an idle twitter account that got hacked by neal or laurelai and they took it over for a while. maybe? Allegedly?

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  272. I think i decided during my research today that patriot usa is likely neal. thus, goatsred got really had. I hope he pursues some legal remedies. I’m thinking you may have a case, goatsred. Ask Patterico.

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  273. @nancydrew Do you want my whole story? Or just from the unfortunate day I read one of Ron’s tweets?

    Stillconfused (786412)

  274. nancydrew, I will disagree about Patriot. I have talked to him, and I think he is exactly who he says he is. Just my opinion.

    Stillconfused (786412)

  275. @251 nancydrew.
    Interesting story about Laurelai Bailey and the revenge of her ex-hacker associates. I see what you meant about why JenP might be afraid of Sinister – re: the article’s description about that hacker group forging a document about LB’s involvement. End Game, she loss her job. Real life but another potential movie plot.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  276. http://the-classic-liberal.com/democratic-consultant-neal-rauhauser-pedophilia-themed-tea-party/ An example of the charm of neal, who I am sure is a graduate of the Bill Obama school of Civility.

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  277. Neal is trying to scare people that HE is ‘Anonymous’. He is trying to use their rep as his own personal army. Anonymous is not coordinated. It is any one who says they are. Maybe JP is scared of all that but no one investigating this should be.

    Yes, he might have some trolls helping him etc. but he the funny thing he isn’t even anonymous in the regular sense of the word never mind the group.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  278. People have accused me over and over of being this person or that person but the last straw was being accused of being the person who sent death threats. I guess if I had jumped on the “hate Dan” bandwagon, no one would have said a word to me. As it is, I am guilty just because I believe what Dan has said. I am a friend to someone who desperately needed one. That’s it. This should have been investigated by law enforcement from the beginning and we really don’t know that it isn’t. I hope so because the things being written as fact are hurting innocent people.

    Stillconfused (786412)

  279. how do you know?

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  280. Sorry for that poorly written post! =/

    Anyway, my main point it Neal is a troll. It would make sense why all this hasn’t ended yet (if he is involved) and why the socks didn’t just disappear into the night. Trolls live for this sort of drama (never mind if there is money involved).

    Noodles (3681c4)

  281. If someone really were threatening JG why would she call Lee first before she even called the police, and lie to him.

    Comment by Temper Tantrum

    I keep reaching this point, and realizing that we do not know that the woman who called Lee and the woman who filed the report were the same woman.

    The timing appears to be very close.

    However, if the woman who called Lee was related to the person who called in the threats, then she would know about the threats, and could muddy the waters, thoroughly, with that phone call.

    I am not saying this is what happened. I am saying that if the scenario is played this way, then the woman who filed a police report is not a liar, or even involved in this increasingly murky matter.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  282. Noodles
    Certainly, commenters are too small of fish to worry about it. We aren’t a big threat. But Jen Preston would become one if she went after the story. Lee has made himself into a threat as well. Captain Obvious says: hence he got the phony phone call. You would not think that he would be dumb enough to threaten Patterico and Ace, but apparently his ego is bigger than common sense.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  283. 266. nancydrew

    Neal does fancy himself a computer-network expert, and if he really believes that nonsense he writes, it is so far left he borders on anarchism- which is where those cyber-warfare groups habituate. BTW, I think he does believe it because of the obsessive compulsive nature of his style. Neal, in his mid 40′s, is a bit older than Laurelai Bailey, who is 29, and they hark from Davenport and Graettinger which aren’t that proximal, though I suspect Neal left Iowa for Chicago many moons ago.

    If Neal is connected to these hacker groups, his political connection may save his hide- I remember Andrew Sullivan having his marijuana possession case dropped by prosecutes over the objection of the presiding judge- but if he is behind the death threats the weight of evidence collected at the lower levels of the FBI may be so great that political intervention is too risky and he may be cut lose by the political powers in the justice Department.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  284. 280. Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 3:06 pm

    Just watching this vid, and something popped out at me- at 5:09 into the vid, one of the tweets says “@GregWHoward my clients, only 10% of which you see are delighted ;-)

    Didn’t the threatening letter to Patterico include the term “clients”?

    I’m reaching, I know, I know…

    surreal (7a67da)

  285. Stillconfused..

    Clarify please: I will disagree about Patriot. I have talked to him,

    On the phone, twitter?

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  286. I know I keep harping on this, but for all the deviousness there really didn’t seem to have been much of a strategy.

    Comment by MayBee

    Spot on! (Ahem! Sorry for the Britishism – it just fits.)

    Part of why it’s so confusing is that none of this seems to be aimed in one direction!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  287. @az5, Twitter but I don’t ask him any questions. I am just there to be his friend.

    Stillconfused (786412)

  288. I lol @ his association with ‘hacker groups’. The public buys into this fear and nonsense. He is a troll. That is all. Maybe a good one. Maybe a paid one. But just a troll.

    I could make a YT video calling Neal out as Anonymous if I wanted to. I could start trolling him if I wanted to. Anonymous would then be trolling Anonymous (or someone who paints an association with them) . My point is guys like him use the rep of some members of Anonymous to scare people from even getting involved.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  289. Stillconfused

    You changed your twitter accnt at least 3 times correct? from clay_arts to _clayarts to current? Or not correct?

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  290. Take that back, I did ask him why in the hell he was talking to Ronbyrn. I tell you one thing, I wasn’t find of journalists before this, but I will never trust another one after this. They will sell their souls for a story.

    Stillconfused (786412)

  291. lamchops!

    I noticed he put CNN on the hit list of enemies of the people for the crime of hiring DanaL. Sinister does strike me as someone with the POV “I am a god”, generalized contempt, and so on.. I’m not claiming the training to determine what precisely is the nature of his problem. But, I think there is a serious one. His focus on DanaL is nothing short of creepy.

    His personality flags remind me of two of our sockpuppets.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  292. Az, see my above post. Yes, I changed again because my account was doing the same thing it was before. Not immediately, but it did. After I realized someone was trying to find out my name, this whole thing changed to me. I have done nothing wrong and I have especially done nothing to warrant anyone trying to find me. I have had a stalker once. I do not want another one. Before all this, I didn’t hide my name. Now, I don’t trust that some insane person won’t knock on my door. People took my protecting my safety as my being guilty. I will say, I have never experienced such blind-hatred. This has changed me.

    Stillconfused (786412)

  293. Stillconfused

    Just asking to understand if the current is really original clay_arts and why change accnt the 2nd time.

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  294. On the phone at the Nordstrom cafe andhubs wants his phone back…… Pardon twit speak if I lapse into it.
    Thanks loam for giving us context of jan prestons convo with lee. Makes a heck of a lot more sense now.

    Prestons caution to Lee is just that, a caution and not a dismissal. Anon style punks can go deep and she is trying to check things out. She is not declaring the website fake but allowing it might be until confirmed otherwise. I made a similar cautionary plea around the same time , and had a devil of a time making it clear this was not a preferred alternative theory, but one that needed proper consideration when evaluating personas , claims, methods and motives.

    Follow up and nailing down loose end will push the case in The right direction whatever the reality is

    Sarahw (d233ce)

  295. AZ. I would like to change my name back to _ClayArts but I don’t dare because I know how you will all react.
    I have seen the worst in people.

    Stillconfused (786412)

  296. People took my protecting my safety as my being guilty. I will say, I have never experienced such blind-hatred. This has changed me.

    Do you mean people here confused? Or on twitter ?

    I'm Getting a Headache (d77c52)

  297. Headache, I don’t comment here enough to feel a lot of hatred but there are people who comment here who state suspicions as fact. People will take your words and use them against you not matter how innocent you are. I learned the hard way that if someone wishes you to be guilty, they will find a way. I see Ronbryn compare Dan to Jared Loughner, tell him how horrible I thought that was, he pretended to be my friend then the next thing I know, he is accusing me of horrible things that shocked me. I got involved to be a friend to Dan. I will follow that through as long as he needs me to but after that, I will leave politics in my past.

    Stillconfused (786412)

  298. Thinking out loud:

    Assume JG MA is a real person who created @starchild111 in 2009 or 2010.

    She used it as a fan of celebs because she heard that you can directly get response message by celebs on Twitter. (& you can…people used to write fan mail and hope for a reply, same thing.)

    She didn’t keep using it because none of her friends used it and she didn’t get much satisfaction from celebrities she tracked, primarily the Kardashians and some Latinas, including J-Lo. Mostly about pretty actresses & models.

    She was also a fan of the UCLA writers program. She either attended that program or knew of it because she’d taken one of the writing retreats with Lew Hunter, a UCLA prof, in the past.

    To clarify, while it’s been reported as a lie that she went to UCLA, the Writers Program is an extension program. You can take courses online.
    http://twitter.com/#!/writersprogram
    http://www2.uclaextension.edu/writers/detail.php?sID=aboutwr
    It’s not only for screenwriting, and Lew Hunter isn’t listed as one of the instructors. Lew is a professor emeritus at UCLA in screenwriting.
    http://www.tft.ucla.edu/faculty/lew-hunter/

    Also if she were studying at UCLA on campus, she could be home in Boston for the summer. Who knows?

    So if she dropped her Twitter account, who’s to say that one of the bad guys (I won’t name names but you’ve been discussing them) couldn’t have just picked up her Twitter account after noticing that it was girly and evidently abandoned…and she’s a patsy? Why not? Maybe she just had a guessable password – we read that most people use “password” “123456″ “qwerty” and similar stupid things as passwords..why wouldn’t the Kardashian fan be one of them? Twitter’s not important, why use a strong password that’s hard to type and remember?

    She knows nothing about Weiner, has nothing to do with Nikki, etc.

    She gets 2 threatening calls out of the blue.

    Who made the calls?

    The calls are either made by people who want to put a stop to “the Reids” …and researching the starchild111 account find that it was opened by Jenny George. (it was, so it must be a findable fact one way or another…on twitter records…how much money would it take to get someone inside twitter to give up or confirm her identity?) They assume she is behind all this (like many do) and try to scare her.

    Or

    The person/people behind The Reids makes the call to her to make it seem like she’s the one behind the socks.

    She gets the calls, she looks up what is this about, finds Lee and calls him, scared and worried. She has now seen his lovely, comforting pictures and heard his soothing voice and the cat of satan in the background. Do you think he calmed her down much? No. She think’s he or his fans could be behind this. (Look at some of the wackos we have commenting here.)

    She’s still panicked and goes to the BPD.

    She’s a patsy.

    Just thinking out loud.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  299. So it’s Friday, and I’m not going out shooting with my boyfriend.

    This being the case, does anyone think we’re going to get this solved tonight? Is more information coming?

    Dianna (f12db5)

  300. Thinking out loud:

    Assume JG MA is a real person who created @starchild111 in 2009 or 2010.

    She used it as a fan of celebs because she heard that you can directly get response message by celebs on Twitter. (& you can…people used to write fan mail and hope for a reply, same thing.)

    She didn’t keep using it because none of her friends used it and she didn’t get much satisfaction from celebrities she tracked, primarily the Kardashians and some Latinas, including J-Lo. Mostly about pretty actresses & models.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  301. Thinking out loud: part 2

    She was also a fan of the UCLA writers program. She either attended that program or knew of it because she’d taken one of the writing retreats with Lew Hunter, a UCLA prof, in the past.

    To clarify, while it’s been reported as a lie that she went to UCLA, the Writers Program is an extension program. You can take courses online.
    http://twitter.com/#!/writersprogram
    http://www2.uclaextension.edu/writers/detail.php?sID=aboutwr
    It’s not only for screenwriting, and Lew Hunter isn’t listed as one of the instructors. Lew is a professor emeritus at UCLA in screenwriting.
    http://www.tft.ucla.edu/faculty/lew-hunter/

    Also if she were studying at UCLA on campus, she could be home in Boston for the summer. Who knows?

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  302. She was also a fan of the UCLA writers program. She either attended that program or knew of it because she’d taken one of the writing retreats with Lew Hunter, a UCLA prof, in the past.

    To clarify, while it’s been reported as a lie that she went to UCLA, the Writers Program is an extension program. You can take courses online.
    It’s not only for screenwriting, and Lew Hunter isn’t listed as one of the instructors. Lew is a professor emeritus at UCLA in screenwriting.

    Also if she were studying at UCLA on campus, she could be home in Boston for the summer. Who knows?

    So if she dropped her Twitter account, who’s to say that one of the bad guys (I won’t name names but you’ve been discussing them) couldn’t have just picked up her Twitter account after noticing that it was girly and evidently abandoned…and she’s a patsy? Why not? Maybe she just had a guessable password – we read that most people use “password” “123456″ “qwerty” and similar stupid things as passwords..why wouldn’t the Kardashian fan be one of them? Twitter’s not important, why use a strong password that’s hard to type and remember?

    Most Common Internet Passwords

    She knows nothing about Weiner, has nothing to do with Nikki, etc.

    She gets 2 threatening calls out of the blue.

    Who made the calls?

    The calls are either made by people who want to put a stop to “the Reids” …and researching the starchild111 account find that it was opened by Jenny George. (it was, so it must be a findable fact one way or another…on twitter records…how much money would it take to get someone inside twitter to give up or confirm her identity?) They assume she is behind all this (like many do) and try to scare her.

    Or

    The person/people behind The Reids makes the call to her to make it seem like she’s the one behind the socks.

    She gets the calls, she looks up what is this about, finds Lee and calls him, scared and worried. She has now seen his lovely, comforting pictures and heard his soothing voice and the cat of satan in the background. Do you think he calmed her down much? No. She think’s he or his fans could be behind this. (Look at some of the wackos we have commenting here.)

    She’s still panicked and goes to the BPD.

    She’s a patsy.

    Just thinking out loud.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  303. Yes, koam? Go on.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  304. confused,
    This blog has a number of unfriendly and even malicious
    sockpuppets visit it, no? It is not personal, you are just an unknown.

    So you meant people were attacking you on twitter? Do you know Ronbryn that well? he was getting aggressive and accusing you..?That sounds like a personal attack.

    Ronbryn does sorta lose it, frequently :)

    I'm Getting a Headache (d77c52)

  305. I had the worst time posting that…the system was not showing my full post..evidently the links I had related to the UCLA program and Prof Lew Hunter were being rejected. In any case they show that the Writers Program is an extension program and that Lew is Prof Emeritus and that the WP is still on Twitter, I follow it.

    So…Why not accept that JG in Boston is a patsy? Some bad guys found her abandoned twitter account and it seemed opportune to make into a teen girl’s as a fake Weiner fan?

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  306. You’ll have to ask him Headache. I didn’t know he existed until I saw that Loghner statement.

    Stillconfused (786412)

  307. I don’t know him confused. But I don’t understand why he would go after you

    I'm Getting a Headache (d77c52)

  308. Nor do I headache. As I said, you’ll have to ask him that.

    Stillconfused (786412)

  309. Don’t know him. I don”t tweet, and if I did I don’t think I’d be sending tweets to guy I didn’t know without a good reason.

    I think everyone in the known universe read his tweets this week. He’ll never them down. Another reason to not tweet. Sooner or later youll lose your temper and show your underwear in public. Whoops that was Anthony not me.

    I'm Getting a Headache (d77c52)

  310. I don’t know why he lost it unless he was pissed that I REALLY DON’T know anything about all of this.
    Have a good night

    Stillconfused (786412)

  311. Sure confused. take care and don’t take everything so hard. It’s not your fault he’s lost it. k?

    I'm Getting a Headache (d77c52)

  312. 308. koam @wittier

    So far, all the evidence indicates that JG Boston is Jenay=Nikki= etc.
    At this time none of the evidence indicated JG Boston is an innocent bystander.

    Other than that, the theory that JG Boston is a Patsy is rock solid.

    BTW, Why not accept that JG Boston is Elvis Presley, having returned on his flying saucer from a distant galaxy to retrieve Lee’s cat?

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  313. “So far, all the evidence indicates that JG Boston is Jenay=Nikki= etc.
    At this time none of the evidence indicated JG Boston is an innocent bystander.”

    lamchopsl – Those conclusions are as firm as the evidence that Lee is not Dan Wolfe.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  314. WWOD?

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  315. Interesting tidbit that popped out at me from neals smear of me at KOS from link posted (#253, surreal)
    Hushmail account mentioned–”And one final thing … the person or persons behind the hushmail account that knew so much about Mike Stack?”

    goatsred (b20383)

  316. The left hate the truth like they hate bush.

    DohBiden (15aa57)

  317. Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 2:18 pm

    Yes,he certainly was cocky to ascertain that the FBI would swoop in on me because he said I tampered with AW’s social accounts.
    It was also against the law to utter a false document and to post it there making it seem like I had committed a felony.

    goatsred (b20383)

  318. if someone was presurgical transgendered, would that make more or less likely that the person had some emotional issues….like JG from Boston perhaps? Just askin…don’t know.

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  319. 318. Interesting tidbit that popped out at me from neals smear of me at KOS from link posted (#253, surreal)

    When I listened to Mr. Stranahan’s radio show talking about JP@NYT and how she was trying to deflect away from the topic, this whole Kos diary came back to me- so I hunted it down. Re-reading it, it amazed me at all the dots it could potentially connect.

    All of this made me break down and get a twitter acct, for the love of…*sigh*. Not that I know what to *do* with it lol

    surreal (7a67da)

  320. The calvary to the rescue!!!

    Lee, I have been defending your sorry arse for the better part of this afternoon.

    There seems to be an element here that believes the Jenny George in Boston may not be the person who called you.

    Did Jen Preston independently confirm that the Jenny George she talked to lives in Boston? Did that person Preston talked to admit that she set up the starchild111 twitter account?

    From reading your blog, and listening to your broadcasts, it appears to me that you take this as fact.

    You could certainly cut through a whole bunch of chatter here if you could just definitively clear up this one question.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  321. @Mike#318, 320
    Playing fair does not seem to be in his vocabulary. He has judged and convictedslandered you in front of a huge crowd of people. I think you need to talk to Patterico or some of the other lawyers here about that action. He can get away with it when its directed at Breitbart, but you are not a public figure. He’s raising up a vigilante gang.

    What made this guy so angry? You can be committed to a cause without wanting to burn the world down.

    @surreal
    I am glad that you found it. It tends to make the picture snap into focus. It may not answer all the questions about Jenny but it certainly makes me believe neal has his hands in this mess somewhere.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  322. 318. goatsred

    I noticed that also. I had never heard of Hushmail before these death threats, but then I am not a professional blackmailer.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  323. @nancydrew #321

    if someone was presurgical transgendered, would that make more or less likely that the person had some emotional issues….like JG from Boston perhaps? Just askin…don’t know.

    Where did you get that rumor?

    bmertz (d77c52)

  324. 320. goatsred

    If Neal Douchehauser has publicaly defamed you, can’t you sue him for libel? Discovery in a civil lawsuit could be a bitch for him. I’m sure there are Right leaning lawyers who would be tripping over themselves to handel such a case, pro bono.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  325. “There seems to be an element here that believes the Jenny George in Boston may not be the person who called you.

    Did Jen Preston independently confirm that the Jenny George she talked to lives in Boston? Did that person Preston talked to admit that she set up the starchild111 twitter account?”

    lamchopsl – To be fair, there are a number of claims which you have been attempting to defend, not limited to the above, which are not actually supported by evidence apart from statements by one or more players involved at this point. With no disrespect, your difficulty seems to be in comprehending what constitutes independently verifiable evidence as opposed to hearsay.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  326. Lamchopsl, I am wondering if the Jenny George who called Lee is the same Jenny George who filed a police report.

    If I understand the timing (and I’m not sure I do), it is possible (not at all a certainty) that the woman who called Lee and identified herself as Jenny George knew of the threats because she’d been part of making them.

    Which would at least cut out one tangle in this mess of action and interaction, people, threats, puppets and possible lies.

    Again, this is not certainty. It’s a possibility, and one which makes the field a little less messy.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  327. I’ve yet to see which alleged lies in the JG call to Lee are proven by actual evidence.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  328. 326. no rumor. Laurelai is a self confessed transgenered person who is presurgical. Don’t get the reason for your question.

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  329. Oops, I left out the rest of it – the woman, JG, who received the threats and went to the police, is a bystander.

    It cuts the risky behavior factor quite sharply.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  330. We still don’t have the times of these events:

    – The 6/19 teary call Lee received from a JG
    – That same JG has call(s) with Preston at Lee’s suggestion
    – Lee’s 6/20 radio show in which he describes call details (probably right after midnight)
    – Any internet posts, comments, tweets etc. that Lee or others made regarding receiving call from JG
    – A real JG from Boston files police report at BPD precinct.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  331. Are we going to have another Séance to contact Neal tonight? I’m still waiting for the rapping on the table and rattling of pans to begin. Another document flash of somebody’s driving records.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  332. lamchopsl – Have you also been commenting as Temper Tantrum today?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  333. Nancydrew, because before you mentioned this person, no one had mentioned him/her at all.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  334. “Are we going to have another Séance to contact Neal tonight?”

    bmertz – I think I still have a Magic 8 Ball around someplace if that would help.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  335. bmertz, if we do, do you want to sit next to me?

    Dianna (f12db5)

  336. daleyrocks, we could probably create a makeshift ouija board out of random tweets, or something.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  337. “So it’s Friday, and I’m not going out shooting with my boyfriend.”

    Dianna – Have him tweet you his junk instead. Anthony Weiner told me chicks dig that stuff.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  338. Comment by nancydrew — 7/1/2011 @ 5:44 pm #331
    We had a miscommunication Nancy. I thought you were referring to Jenny. Obviously to have access to that sort of knowledge would be rather significant here. :)

    Your article is the first time I have been introduce to Lorelai. I don’t know a great deal about her outside of what I read.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  339. 328. daleyrocks

    Thanks for clearing this point up for me. Since I had no reason to believe otherwise, I was assuming that your questions regarded facts, evidence and logical conclusions.

    But you make no counter arguments nor cite no evidence, you merely make general personal accusations against me.

    When I ask Lee to clear up one of your central objections, you, before even hearing Lee’s response, reject as insufficient to clear my reputation.

    Now that it is clear that you seem to want to simply attack me personally, I will henceforth ignore you.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  340. Dianna
    Yes, I’m scaaarrred of ghosties

    bmertz (d77c52)

  341. goatsred – Serious question. I understand why you are PO’d at PatriotUSA, but in the time you guys were fooling around together as bornfree or whatever, did you ever have any indication that he was not a conservative or that he was a sock.

    I ask, because I find most liberals cannot successfully impersonate a conservative for any length of time because they just don’t understand how we think. You see it with liberal trolls on blogs attempting to fool people. They invariably slip up because they are idiots or too indoctrinated with liberal Kool Aid about conservatives they put their feet in their mouths.

    Did you see any hints of that with your interactions with Patriot to justify all the suspicion being cast his way?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  342. Anyone want to volunteer to start channeling Neal? anybody? anybody? No volunteers?

    sigh

    bmertz (d77c52)

  343. Yes, I’m scaaarrred of ghosties

    Comment by bmertz

    There, there! You can hold my hand, then.

    G. K. Chesterton, when asked if he believed in ghosts, replied, “No; but I’m scared of them!”

    An eminently sensible answer.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  344. “But you make no counter arguments nor cite no evidence, you merely make general personal accusations against me.”

    lamchopsl – Please point out a personal attack or accusation other than what I tried to explain in #328.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  345. Anyone want to volunteer to start channeling Neal? anybody? anybody? No volunteers?

    sigh

    My brain is quite an odd enough place already, thank you.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  346. “nor cite no evidence”

    lamchopsl – If there is no evidence to cite, that’s a problem, isn’t it? You are really not paying close enough attention to what I have actually said.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  347. JG from Boston and Laurelai? Hmmm….just curious.

    nancydrew (448ba9)

  348. “I will henceforth ignore you”

    Does that count as a flounce? Anybody?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  349. I think everyone is so stressed out and tired from working on this investigation (for weeks) that it is beginning to take its toll between people who normally have a lot in common. I’ve noticed that people sound frustrated and appear worn to the bone. I think this mystery will be cracked if we can be patient with each other. Meanwhile some of you need to get away from the computers and go do something fun to kick off the stress. Insight breaks lose with you aren’t so wound up.

    ========End of bmertz’s unsolicited advice ========

    bmertz (d77c52)

  350. 335. daleyrocks

    lamchopsl – Have you also been commenting as Temper Tantrum today?

    347. daleyrocks

    lamchopsl – Please point out a personal attack or accusation other than what I tried to explain in #328.

    Since you don’t seem to grasp what I am talking about here, let me make this as clear as possible:

    Fuck You.

    Got it?

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  351. Dianna
    I am glad to know that when times are truely dark, you will be there to stand beside me

    I am honored and touched
    sniff

    bmertz (d77c52)

  352. Does that count as a flounce? Anybody?

    Comment by daleyrocks

    No, it wasn’t “goodbye, cruel blog! You have abused me for the last time! You will regret it, when I am gone, just see if you don’t!”

    It was purely someone who’s not happy with you, today.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  353. @Nancydrew
    Who was that interesting visitor earlier. She/he made some Very intriguing comments about patriot in the thread.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  354. Lamb — I gave a long answer. It’s here.

    http://leestranahan.com/weinergate-where-in-the-world-is-socky-puppet

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  355. daley-Excuse me for inserting myself into the fight. I was trying to help calm everyone down, not upset you more. I have noticed an increase of tension among all the commenters and it concerned me.

    bmertz (d77c52)

  356. From Lew Hunter’s website:

    This coming summer from June 11th – 24th, Lew Hunter hosts his Superior Summer Screenwriting Colony. This is an intense program for serious writers of all levels.

    In North Dakota.

    MayBee (081489)

  357. 329. Dianna

    I hear you. I think Lee has been kind of sloppy as he tries to flesh out this story. His use of language is somewhat imprecise, he tends to jump around and digress onto tangents and he either intentionally or unintentionally doesn’t put out all the facts, even when they aren’t any kind of big deal.

    He does, however, seem to be responsive to the comments on this site. I’ve found he often address these these questions on his radio blog. Here’s to hoping he clears up these simple points.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  358. Sorry. In Nebraska.

    MayBee (081489)

  359. MayBee – Hunter lives in Nebraska, where the N on the Cornhusker football helmets stands for Nowledge!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  360. Lee has been more than responsive, and I’m not criticizing him or anyone.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  361. MayBee? That is…interesting. Have you put it over on Lee’s blog? He has a new post up, and it might make it easier for him to see it.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  362. So….

    There’s a real UCLA prof’s website, and a sock UCLA prof for JP and LS to speak to on the phone? Why is the same not true for JG– a real person, but not the person who’s spoken to LS and JP. Who else is real but faked? The Boston detective?

    This is not normal sockpuppet stuff. They are being careful to find somebody real they can co-opt before putting themselves out there. Doing so gives them cover for a while before everyone sorts out the mess. That implies the availability of resources to employ for this purpose.

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  363. koam started to talk it out.

    Suppose JG, a real person, has an unused starchild111 account that gets co-opted and contains some personal information that makes it possible for an identity thief to impersonate her.

    Is it possible no one has spoken to the ACTUAL JG who created the account yet? To ask if her account has seen activity unknown to her?

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  364. 357. Lee Stranahan

    Thanks for taking the time to make this clear.

    It seems to me that the detective’s reference to the Mrs. Hunter means the Jenny George he spoke with is the one both you and Jen Preston talked to.

    The Dan Wolfe Massachusetts connections are one more weight toward the Jenny George=Patriot conclusion. That seems to be getting closer every day.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  365. The site for Lew Hunter’s intensive course says he’s in Nebraska.

    For some reason, I was thinking Prof. Emeritus Hunter was in Southern California.

    Having read the site at least once before, how come I didn’t notice that?

    Dianna (f12db5)

  366. Maybe I’ve been watching too many spy thrillers. It’s obvious we are being screwed with, just would be nice to know who and why.

    Although we might discover that the who and why to be totally unsatisfying in the end.

    It’s been interesting to follow.

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  367. I phoned Lew Hunter in Nebraska.

    Who is Caustic Conservative? Can anyone vouch for them?

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  368. We have four people who are real and identified beyond any reasonable doubt — Jenny George, Lew Hunter and his wife, and Detective Thornton.

    But Caustic Conservative seems to want to convince people that these real people are (somehow) fake.

    So I ask — who is CC and why do they want to foist this lunacy on people?

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  369. 345. Comment by bmertz — 7/1/2011 @ 5:58 pm
    Anyone want to volunteer to start channeling Neal? anybody? anybody? No volunteers?

    I’ll have to take a pass. I may be from the Lunatic Lair, but, there are some flavors of lid flippage that go beyond Beyond, right smack into Over Yonder. Ol’ Sinister lands square in BFE.

    surreal (7a67da)

  370. #370 – Lee – It’s more that we’ve started to doubt the reality of anyone who isn’t sitting in the family room with us at this exact instant.

    I’m not entirely kidding.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  371. Who is ‘The Freaking Mob’?

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  372. “We have four people who are real and identified beyond any reasonable doubt — Jenny George, Lew Hunter and his wife, and Detective Thornton.”

    Lee – Respectfully, I disagree.

    We have a person claiming to be Jenny George that you and Jen Preston have spoken with.

    We have a Jenny George that Det. Thornton interviewed in response to her complaint.

    Where is the hard evidence establishing they are the same person? We have no physical descriptions. We have professors remembering a JG but no assurance it is the same person. Could they have taught more than one JG? Was that question asked?

    I’m not asking to create “lunacy”. Just remember that TommyX got punked with fake ID. I’d rather have it nailed down than leap to conclusions.

    I’m also missing that Nikki/Patriot connection you see lurking.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  373. LOL.

    I’m nobody.

    Just a random Patterico reader who seldom posts.

    I don’t read the entire threads all the time. I don’t follow twitter at all, so I am missing a bunch of details apparently.

    Didn’t mean to throw you off the trail!

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  374. OMG.

    It just occurred to me that maybe…

    I’M

    NOT

    ME!

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  375. 371. Lee Stranahan

    Gennette Cordova

    At least knowing she is real separates her from the Sockpuppet Posse, making it one less problem to solve.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  376. I think Lee’s theory is probably the most accurate. Plus, he he has the most solid leads (police report) to follow up on.

    This Neal guys possible involvement is troubling but maybe he is just trying to be a headache to those trying to break the story wide open.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  377. Neal is an idiot.

    But Neal is not Nikki / Patriot.

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  378. Daley,

    The evidence is in commonality of the statements from the woman who I spoke to and the woman who the police spoke to.

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  379. Lee,

    From what I’ve seen the threatener may be a completely separate story. She could be JG threatening herself and everybody else, but s/he could also be somebody else? Any insight?

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  380. Lee? Is the commonality more than Prof. Hunter and his wife? And UCLA? (Which, by your account, is a lie).

    Dianna (f12db5)

  381. 384. Dianna

    If I may presume to interject.

    The fact that JG mentioned the Hunters to Jen Preston and to the detective is the argument. What are the chances that the real JG would mention the hunters to the detective and someone else falsely claiming to e JG would mention the Hunters to Jen Preston?

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  382. lamb is correct…

    Plus other elements of the story — the mention of me. Of ‘followers’ — a fake JG would change her story to ‘followers’, why exactly?

    Seriously — this isn’t rocket science. It’s not weird. The simple answer is simple — the woman on the phone filed the police report.

    Has anyone contacted me to clear it up?

    Just think this stuff through…what are the logical consequences?

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  383. Also — the detective is closing the case as ‘unfounded’ he told me.

    What does that tell you?

    I mean — “nothing” if you want to believe the exceptionally complicated conspiracy theory.

    But it’s sure consistent with the story I’m telling.

    BTW – has anyone asked Patterico if he heard the hoaxster theory from Reid or Wolfe?

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  384. Lee says John Reid is fake and JG is real.
    Pat says JG is fake and John Reid is real.

    Any wonder why random comments thread readers might get a little confused?

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  385. It seems to me that unless JG decides to come clean the only way this whole intrigue will be resolved is if JG is the threatener and law enforcement unravels it with subpoenas of twitter and ISPs. If it turns out that someone else is the threatener, we may never definitively know who Dan wolf is,

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  386. “The evidence is in commonality of the statements from the woman who I spoke to and the woman who the police spoke to.”

    Lee – I agree there is wicked commonality, I am just looking for more than commonality. The AGW fanatic believe correlation equals causation. I think they’re full of sh*t because they don’t fully understand our climate system and expect more evidence before sending our economy back to the stone age.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  387. Anybody know if Pattero or Ace have filed criminal complaints over the threats. Once it goes across state lines the FBI comes in, if I am not mistaken. Then it becomes a federal case.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  388. “Also — the detective is closing the case as ‘unfounded’ he told me.”

    Thanks. More new information.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  389. You are taking Preston’s remarks to Lee out of context if you think she was trying
    to persuade
    him Hunter’s website was fake. that’s not what she said or meant at all.

    She was warning him of the possibilites of an anonymous- style punk. She didn’t say the website was fake or appeared to be fake, she said she did not [at that moment] take for granted it was genuine. A prudent reservation that was, considering what has been going on with socks and the natural history of Encylopedia dramatica hijinks. This is not the stuff of black helicopters, it’s more a suspicion that silly drama is afoot.

    Lees caller is a liar, check; lees caller is or is not a Jenny George known by lew hunter, claimed but not double checked.

    That checking needs to happen

    Sarahw (af7312)

  390. “The fact that JG mentioned the Hunters to Jen Preston and to the detective is the argument.”

    lamchopsl – Can you please refresh my memory where the Hunter/Detective connection was discussed?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  391. “Lees caller is a liar, check; lees caller is or is not a Jenny George known by lew hunter, claimed but not double checked.

    That checking needs to happen”

    SarahW – I don’t understand why that is such a stratospherically difficult concept for some people to understand, but it apparently is, because they accuse you of fomenting lunacy when you raise it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  392. “Once it goes across state lines the FBI comes in, if I am not mistaken.”

    I think it gets even worse if a telephone was used. And with people being able to use telephones to send email/tweet, they have to be really careful. A lot of people don’t realize that the laws can be different if a phone is involved.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  393. 393. Sarahw

    The Boston detective spoke to JG.

    Lee said, “The Detective also mentioned to me that he had spoken to Mrs. Hunter”:

    http://leestranahan.com/weinergate-where-in-the-world-is-socky-puppet

    During their phone call, the person claiming to be JG referred Jen Preston to the Hunters. Jen later gave the hunters number to Lee and he called them also.

    What are the chances that the real JG would refer the detective to the Hunters and that a person falsely claiming to be JG would refer Jen Preston to the Hunters?

    Ergo: JG Boston set up the starchild111 account as she claimed and as was indicated by the account name.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  394. This isn’t really anything but there is a starchild111 Youtube account. Looks abandoned.

    There is also a one for user/jennifergeorge subscribed to UCLA but I think that is the wrong ones channel.

    No user/jenaygeorge

    Noodles (3681c4)

  395. Out of all the people in all the world she could have picked–why do you suppose Boston JG chose the Hunters–the out of state Hunters– to be the ones that she referred several perfect strangers to for an endorsement? Did she warn/alert the Hunters ahead of time I wonder? And what arrangements had she made with them to give them permission to discuss her, or what explanation did she give the Hunters for needing this service, I wonder.

    elissa (961c7a)

  396. “The Detective also mentioned to me that he had spoken to Mrs. Hunter, so I believe that reference must have come from Ms. George.”

    Thanks. Unless I am mistaken, this is more new information revealed today. That establishes a good connection.

    Again, stuff like this would have made a stronger case earlier. Why hold back on it?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  397. I’m just sleuthing (see Google) and see she won some MA film thingie. Says she’s from Quincy, MA.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  398. “And what arrangements had she made with them to give them permission to discuss her, or what explanation did she give the Hunters for needing this service, I wonder.”

    elissa – More interestingly, why was it necessary to have the police call anybody on her behalf?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  399. Idk, maybe that’s the one with the Twitter account maybe? Is she the suspect or some other Jennifer George?

    Noodles (3681c4)

  400. Noodles — I saw that but there are 8 Jennifer Georges around Boston

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  401. No, Preston clearly thought that the website and Lew Hunter and his wife were all possibly fake. We argued about this point, which I was stunned by.

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  402. ==there are 8 Jennifer Georges around Boston==

    Oh good allah.

    elissa (961c7a)

  403. New Braintree and Andover, MA look like the closest in age (if that is correct).

    Noodles (3681c4)

  404. I’m not going to hypothesize on women who live in or near Boston.

    The Police have her address. That works for me.

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  405. Radio show — 1e 12c 11m 10p

    So, 10 minutes from now.

    http://tobtr.com/s/2050777

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  406. Lee,

    I have to agree with you on the recent odd behavior of Jennifer Preston. It should be very easy to verify the Lew Hunter aspect. Just a quick look at his web site provides lots of clues that he appears to be a real money making individual.

    He just completed a retreat on June 24 so maybe we can get someone to verify that he was seen there in Superior NE.

    JP should have the resouces to verify Lew in less than 30 minutes.

    With your latest Blog Talk show, I am now updated on your views concerning Jenny George. I still don’t see the upside to her or anyone filing a Police report in Boston. It just up’s the story rather then hoping it just dies quietly on the internet.

    So that leaves me with the question: What is the next step when you turn on your phone after a good weekend rest?

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  407. As long as a bunch of commenters I never heard of before agree, that is what matters.

    Pay no attention to the way an alternate theory explains everything.

    Hi, Neal!

    Patterico (5e9aee)

  408. Patterico , how does your theory explain everything?

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  409. Lee left us a rabbit hole to search based this tweet:

    Stranahan Phil Johnson
    Look-a-likes? « Qritiq http://bit.ly/mdNe6X Can anyone figure out who this site belongs to?
    2 hours ago

    Is this the face of Qritiq?

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/28747007@N00/

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  410. There is a real ball of socks in this dresser drawer!

    Patterico’s theory is that 1) Lee’s hysterical caller was a hoaxer claiming to be Jennifer George (MA). This hoaxer may or may not be in league with 2) A male hoaxer who threatened the real JG MA and claimed to be Lee.

    Real JG MA calls the police and Lee gets a call from them.

    Points against #1 seem to be that Lee is fairly certain that hysterical caller is the same as JG MA, due to “commonalities” that seem indicative but not dispositive. But as Patterico says, even if #1 is wrong, #2 is not dependent.

    #2, that somebody actually threatened JG MA and claimed to be Lee (or one of his “followers”…all hail Lee!!!) is a hypothesis that yields a lot of good areas of thought.

    First off, if there had been no threats made against JG MA, and yet she still filed a police report (which I assume Patterico has verified), then she’s engaging in very risky and stupid behavior. I think it makes much more sense that a threat was actually made.

    If a threat was made, we know it wasn’t Lee (all hail Lee!!!) so it must have been an imposter, some sort of political shit-stirrer. And the primary suspect seems to be “Neal”, a shit-stirrer with a long reach and a short stick.

    The email threats to Ace and Patterico made by Alicia Pain may be related, of course, but Ace and Patterico are wisely maintaining radio silence on what is an ongoing police investigation, so lets leave this out for now.

    Now, on its face, this is two or three levels removed from the dicpic, but considering all the socks it may not be. These two narratives (hysterical caller is a phony / real threats by phony Lee) are just two pieces in the puzzle.

    Patterico, have I restated your post back to you correctly?

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  411. The date on that post was intentionally wrong.

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  412. Pat says JG is fake and John Reid is real.
    Comment by CausticConservative — 7/1/2011 @ 7:49 pm

    Patterico has not said that John Reid is real.

    slp (f9a160)

  413. 404

    Yes, Lee, she thought them all possibly fake, as she should have with the amount of information she had. Failing to check would be inexcusable, but circumspection at first very reasonable.

    You were certain all was resolved, she was not. Some loose ends remain.

    If you really spoke to the person who took classes from Lew hunter, I will think it.ll but reolved myself, but I don’t know whether the woman in Boston is actually a foamier screenwriting student.

    Sarahw (af7312)

  414. This story has now officially transcended the realm of the mundane political conspiracy theory tinged with sinister overtones of of death-hackers like Anonymous and the Yes men. It is now firmly ensconced in bizarre and inscrutable hyper-real metrocosm of Van Nuys:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Van_Nuys_Boulevard_Street_Scene.JPG

    My proof, you might ask? Consider the fact that Lee ‘s twitter account has been co-opted. By a banker!

    http://twitter.com/#!/Stranahan

    Be afraid. Be very afraid, my friends.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  415. That’s putting too dark a facetious spin on it, Lamchop1.
    Lulz can be “deadly” I guess but mainly its just making fools of people.

    SarahW (af7312)

  416. “Foamier screenwriting student”

    I hate you, Ipad auto-correct.

    SarahW (af7312)

  417. Please take a look at this blog post that Lee posted earlier today.

    http://qritiq.wordpress.com/2010/06/30/look-a-likes/

    I don’t know yet how he came across it.

    The top photo is a match for a Jennifer George, Boston facebook profile
    http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1104744369

    While the 2nd and 3rd are Nikki Reed the actress (it says) and J-Lo, both of whom have rich histories with @starchild111.

    The home page for the qritiq blog has a weather widget with ZIP 11576, Roslyn, NY (a suburb of NYC on Long Island). Other stories in the blog are related to NYC and Long Island.

    The page notes: “Look-alikes?” (sic) “Is it just me or do these ladies look somewhat similar?” (for Jennifer George, Boston and Nikki Reed, actress) and “Maybe more like this:” for Jennifer Lopez.

    This is dated June 30, 2010 and filed under “politics.”

    How darn odd is all that?

    Thoughts?

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  418. 418. sarahw

    Too dark a facetious a spin?!??

    This from the author of, “Foamier screenwriting student”?

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  419. 414. Lee
    What do you mean by that and how do you know?

    Can wordpress dates be faked?

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  420. Update: WordPress dates can be modified.

    So this qritiq is possibly just someone spoofing.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  421. #344. Daleyrocks I did not see anything to make me believe that he was anyone other than who he said he was. Of course, I have always used Twitter to post political stuff and my opinions so I only interacted with people on that basis.
    I only noted one strange thing: He would never post articles/links. It would always be Weiner news or a reply to something I tweeted.Or a “hello” to everyone RT’d a million times.
    So, I guess the answer is no. I took him at face value, considering that I had no interaction with him in “real life”. And I never studied his “act” then. Now I’m more discreet,obviously.
    I was very ignorant to this world up until this event took place. It never seemed to be a place where this stuff happened,or somewhere I could get myself embroiled into a scandal like this.
    There was a person in our group for awhile, and I’ll leave his name out for right now,who followed our group and RAW. I told Patriot and passed word around to block him. We did but this person does not appear to be a sock,because he still posts and doesnt follow me.If he follows the rest of the group,I do not know but will check.
    You can DM me , or I will email Sarah W with the name and you can check him out yourself until we think it’s right to post his name here.
    Hope that adds some clarity. If not, fire away .

    goatsred (b20383)

  422. goatsred@423 – Thanks for the response. Some people just don’t know how to post links, but who knows. Hopefully my question my sense to you.

    I’m not on twitter, but thank you for the offer.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  423. 396 – You presume too much. lchop.

    First, I do not dislike Lee’s theory at all and think it is a simple explanation for convoluted shenanigan. If it even matters, I’ve been saying so for some time. However, I think a solid case stands all the kicking you can give it.
    Checking would only strengthen, if all is as it seems.
    If all is not as it seems, checking could reveal it.

    I am saying something different about JG than you seem to be hearing, I think.

    I’m saying Lee’s caller, the report-maker, could be a poser.
    A poser who refers people to Lew Hunter.

    The value of a Lew Hunter reference depends on the strength of certainty that she hasn’t directed people to an accomplice(s)
    and that she is actually the student, not jut someone purporting to be.

    It means little for [verified] Lew Hunter to say “yes, I know a Jenny George of MA. She has attended my seminars” unless he provides information that Lee’s caller is THAT PARTICULAR Jenny George, as opposed to someone pretending to be that former student.

    I would do two things to cross-reference and double-check.

    I would contact (If I were going to contact anyone, which I am not) Lew Hunter through his UCLA contact information.

    If he were willing to provide himself as a reference for Lee’s caller, (which he might not be) he CAN provide more than information that JG exists.

    He might confirm anything from an address from his records to a birthmark on her shoulder; basically any kind of detail that would tie Lee’s caller to Lew’s student.

    If LewH is verifiably the speaker and his student verifiably Lee’s caller, then Lee I believe has got at least one party to the hoaxing and probably all of them- all the socks.

    If LewH turns out to have been in Argentina the day of Preston/lee’s calls I think that might be significant and imply another hoaxer is in on the game.

    At this point it is more difficult to establish that Lee’s caller is really Lew’s student and not just posing as the Jenny George who went to his seminars. Jenny might have cooperated with a request for identifying detail ( if really the student), and the professor might have cooperated more readily before being exposed and worried about implying a student is a fruitcake.

    Now, general physical description, sending him a picture, matching up of addresses, the sort of thing available from the detective or the police report, is all that will be obtainable.

    But it ought to be checked.

    You might think it absolutely outlanding that Lee’s caller would be bold enough to fake being someone else to the point of filing a police report, and meeting an officer at the address she gave.

    Take nothing for granted, though, trust no one, because even if it isn’t, the situation has all the hallmarks of an Encyclopedia Dramatic magnet, especially confused and hidden and faked identities. These have already happened, be on your guard for more.

    Doesn’t mean there are any, just that double checking is prudent.

    SarahW (af7312)

  424. SarahW – Stop personally attacking lamchopsl. Heh.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  425. I don’t post much because you guys are just much better at this than I. That said.
    Goatsred and daily rocks
    I’m sure you had no reason to doubt patriot until this why would you. So please DO NOT take this next comment as questioning that. You have been through more than enough.
    Just a thought I had yesterday after reading the old DM btwn Patriot and that film guy.
    As conservatives or whatever do any of you rant like that? I mean he used the word hate like 50 times? I don’t know it just sounded like someone who thinks they know that conservatives are filled with hate. Patriot wasn’t even in AW district right? I lived in NY, I’ve met his wife (very nice) and I never hated him. More like an annoying fly.
    I thought it sounded much more like Simon Sinister.
    haha how funny is it every time Patterico says “Hi Neil”

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  426. Lambchopsl is smart and cool.

    SarahW (af7312)

  427. Blackburnsghost – Your powers of observation seem strong enough to me.

    No it is not normal. It’s a tell – a put-on of rage. Overdoing it, protesting too much, is a feature of the sockwriter and one reason the sockwriting sucks so badly.

    SarahW (af7312)

  428. @Stranahan It just occurred to me that you and @JohnReid9 now agree about Preston. She’s as bad as JR9 says. Interesting.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  429. Blackburnsghost – That conversation just looked to me like somebody who was accustomed to communicating by IM or tweet.

    Also you have to remember the insulting crazy crap personal theories floated about him by people like Stranahan and how he could not possibly been in a position to have been in a position to see Weiner’s tweet which turned out to be absolute BS. Yeah, so I understand the rage.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  430. lamchopsl – Lee admitted on BTR last night that he had not documented things in this story because he had wasted time going down rabbit holes and getting yelled at. It’s a piss poor excuse, but the lack of documentation is what the bulk of bitching is about in this thread and Lee fans it himself when he asks questions people if you think there’s a problem, what’s an alternate explanation. You have a persistent inability as SarahW and I have both pointed out to understand this concept.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  431. Lee – Since you mentioned it on BTR last night, can you be specific about anything that the Reid personas have done that is anti-Weiner? How does that fit with Jenny in Boston being Nikki and being very liberal?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  432. 426. SarahW

    I’m saying Lee’s caller, the report-maker, could be a poser.

    OK, so you are acknowledging that Lees caller, the person that Jen Preston talked to and the person who filed the police report and later spoke to the Boston detective are the same person? Do you acknowledge that this person is named Jenny George?

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  433. Lee,

    I’m listening to your extended Blog Talk Radio show from last night and have reached a point of confusion on what you’re saying that Preston’s position on why to not pursue the person behind the call you received from Jen George in Boston (who Preston has talked to several times):

    1) You said earlier that Preston said that Prof Lew Hunter’s site may be a phony and the prof may have punked Preston/you.

    – You disagree. You think Hunter is real and was truthful.

    2) You said last night that Preston said that Jen George in Boston’s @startchild111 twitter was hacked so that JG is not responsible for the Weiner activity of Nikki. Preston: “Lee there’s nothing to tie JG into that Nikki Reid account.”

    – You disagree. (I don’t think Pru proved that the account was hacked or not hacked. Either could be the case) but you say it was not hacked. You say that Preston buys JG’s story that the account was hacked, “absolutely, hook,line and sinker.”

    So in case 1) you say Preston is saying that JG’s evidence (the prof) is fake….so Preston won’t pursue (this goes too deep, she warns you)

    And in case 2) you say Preston is saying that JG’s story is true….so Preston won’t pursue.

    So I don’t understand how you say Preston both incorrectly disbelieves JG’s story and simultaneously incorrectly believe’s JG’s story.

    The only consistent parts are 1) you disagree with Preston on the conclusions to be drawn from the evidence, and 2) Preston is not pursuing the case, no matter what excuse she gives.

    Isn’t that a bit messed up?

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  434. Thank you SarahW. I don’t know who the heck Patriot is but it just sounded so “over the top”. Not unlike JReid was so “under the top” *trademark BGhost :)
    For example I have a legitimate reason to be pissed as hell because my community is being systematically
    destroyed RIGHT NOW, I literally cried at a recent local parade and I still have never spoken like that. I just went and checked some sites/commentors I follow just to double check the temperature and people are incredulous about various issues but they have a fantastic sense of humor and they are intelligent. Not “I’m not a bright guy” slobber/burp that Patriot also said about 50 times. Ewww I just remembered he kept going on and on about his daughter being a victim even AFTER the film guy told him to stop. Twice.Ugh what? I’m sorry if you are a real person patriot I really am but I can’t help wonder.

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  435. Daleyrocks like I said just thinking out loud. I don’t communicate via DM or IM or whatever so I don’t know.
    This whole thing is nuts and again if he is a real person I’m sorry for his trouble.

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  436. I am dubious about Lee’s theory of separating motives between the personal and the political. For the left, the personal and the political are inseparable, they define people. Just try to have a rational discussion about politics with a liberal and see how personal it becomes for them.

    I think it is also a mistake think Lee has been correct or even consistent on his thinking about Dan Wolfe during the course of this story. He has not. I’ll be happy to document it when I return later.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  437. Comment by lamchopsl — 7/2/2011 @ 8:29 am

    Who doesn’t acknowledge that the hoaxer(Lee’s Caller) claims to be Jenny George?

    Or that (assuming he really spoke to the real Lew Hunter) Lew Hunter had a student named Jenny George?

    SarahW (af7312)

  438. 440. SarahW

    I am not asking if she claimed to be Jenny George. I am asking you if you acknowledge that that person is named Jenny George. That is, did she identify herself to the detective an Jenny Goerge and the detective confirmed that he was speaking to the person named Jenny George that filed the complaint?

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  439. Koam, I can’t speak for Preston, but I do think she was misunderstood by Lee (as I was).

    My read: She was saying she’s not ready to make any declaration of what’s going on based on the information she has.

    Not following up with the prof would be inexcusable.

    Not getting hold of her personal info from the Police report and checking in to see if the [verified] prof to see if matches his records is another.

    Not speaking to the detective would be inexcusable.

    Maybe Preston knows something we don’t, and it shapes her opinions. If she doesn’t, maybe general interest in the story has faded so ar he doesn’t want to put in the effort.

    Is she the only person in the world who can investigate and gather information and report it?

    No. So find out if the story is dropped like a hot potato, if so, stop worrying about what she thinks or does.

    SarahW (af7312)

  440. Lamchopsl, I don’t know if she is Jenny George or someone posing as her.

    SarahW (af7312)

  441. “they define people. Just try to have a rational discussion about politics with a liberal and see how personal it becomes for them.”
    Truth

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  442. Could we not take that link to the qritiq blog that Lee posted earlier (top photo,unlabeled is same photo as a Jen Preston from Boston on a private Facebook profile) and send it to Prof. Lew Hunter and ask,

    “Dear Prof. Hunter,
    Sorry to bother you, but do you recognize the person in this photograph? If so, what is the name of the person?
    Thank you and Happy 4th.”

    And send the same thing to the Detective in Boston?

    well, I guess we cannot because that page has now been removed from qritiq. http://qritiq.wordpress.com/2010/06/30/look-a-likes/

    but we could use the photo from the facebook profile page (woman in business attire, yellow blouse, under dark jacket, leaning forward into camera, hands on desk)

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  443. lamchopsl,

    I don’t understand your insistence upon treating “understandings” and “acknowledgments” as truth. In pressing SarahW to “acknowledge” certain propositions you are merely insisting she has the same “understanding” as you when the facts are not iron-clad.

    As SaraW points out, nobody is saying a police report wasn’t filed or that the person Lee spoke with didn’t claim to be Jenny George. It’s a matter of corroboration. And no, the professor’s phone acknowledgment is not good enough.

    We all know who JGCA is. She has a website, a twitter, can be easily contacted, and has a work history that can be verified. And the only reason she is caught up in this is because of the ghost of JGMA (beyond a name, we do not know who she is). How do we know the professor didn’t have JGCA in mind when he verified her existence?

    Crispian (70c05e)

  444. koam,

    I still see the picture in google cache. Was that page created by Ms. Lipton? Despite the nearly exactly one year ago date on it, the picture caption is “JG?” and is tagged as “politics.”

    Crispian (70c05e)

  445. Anybody out there please correct me if I am wrong, but when you walk into a police station and say, “Hello, my name is Daffy Duck, and I’d like to file a complaint against Lee Stranahan for threatening to kill me.”

    The Desk Sargent politely replies, “We’d be happy to take your complaint Mr. Duck, if you would please just fill out this form. Oh, and by the way, may I see your identification?”

    And when the decetive goes out to interview the person making the complaint, he also asks for identification to ensure he is talking to the person who made the complaint.

    So here’s my next question: if you believe the person who called Lee and Jen Preston and filed the police complaint and then spoke with the detective isn’t really named Jenny George, then isn’t it reasonable to assume that this person has some sort of serious identification, such as a drivers license or passport, that identifies her as Jenny George?

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  446. lamchopsl,

    It’s reasonable to assume, but I’m sure one doesn’t need identification. (“Sorry ma’am, I don’t care what crime you want to report, no ID, no investigation.”)

    But again, it’s a matter of knowing it was the same person that Lee spoke with and if it was, then determining who that person is beyond a mere name.

    Crispian (70c05e)

  447. At work bored.
    Just read this http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/06/28/989469/-Disingenuous-Chart,-Dishonest-DA-(Weinergate)?via=search
    Stranded Wind=Marooned Fart? High and dry gas bag?
    Again just thinking out loud…whistling minding my own business.

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  448. 446. Crispian

    There are no iron-clad facts. There are only degrees of certainty. JGCA could be an elaborate hoax also. You cannot be 100% certain that the person standing in front of you in the grocery store check out line isn’t a visitor from another space-time continuum.

    The reason I am using words like acknowledge is I am trying to find out the level of certainty that is required for someone with whom I am talking to say something is, as you say, an iron-clad fact.

    If the guy in line behind me in the grocery store check out line starts asking me to prove that I am not a visitor from another space-time continuum, I might rightfully expect that men in white coats toss a butterfly net over him. And if people on this forum start contacting people to exclude extremely unlikely conspiracy hypotheses, they might expect the same response.

    If you read JGCA’s Weinerpage she seems to think everybody on this forum is a crazy conspiracy theorist. I would argue that she is wrong, some people on this forum are not.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  449. 448 lamchopsl

    that sounds right.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  450. 447 Crispian

    You’re referring to my 445.

    I don’t know who Ms. [redacted] is.

    The qritiq blog page was, Lee says, intentionally mis-dated a year earlier. I tested and you can mis-date posts on wordpress.

    So its value is much less if it was just posted yesterday with some photo found online by searching “jennifer george boston” ( I found same photo a week ago that way). If it had really been posted a year ago on same page with Nikki Reed and J-Lo then that was gonna be big news. Lee spread it, not sure why. but he was asking who owned the blog…so perhaps the blogger was up to a little misdirection because of that fake date.

    The blog has a weather widget with the ZIP for Roslyn, NY (long island).

    The photo I would consider entirely random, one of many candidates. It could be emailed to Prof and Detective for some level of corrobroation…so if another photo of same lady shows up elsewhere we will know we are looking at the one who took courses and/or filed police reports. That would be real information.

    But in the interim

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  451. Please take a look at this blog post …http://qritiq.wordpress.com/2010/06/30/look-a-likes/

    Geez, all this time, and no one ever once mentioned that she was a babe. I might have actually paid attention.

    Jenny, if you’re out there, I’ve got Sox tickets. We’ll get some Fenway franks and forget about the whole Weinie thing. Later we can help Norm tweet random body parts to strangers. It’ll be fun.

    You know where to find me. (The place where every one knows – oh wait, never mind that part).

    Cheers,
    Sammy

    Sam Malone (f24ed2)

  452. witter,

    You mean this picture?

    http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/23073_1104744369_8766_n.jpg

    The link for this FB page was sent to Lee on June 27 by @lanelipton on twitter

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  453. 420 kill me now.

    SarahW (af7312)

  454. Name goes with the blog. Was she just guessing? Seems so. Wouldn’t be terrible to show the detective, however.

    SarahW (af7312)

  455. This is a bit of an aside but has anyone looked at RBrynaert twitter today? So weird
    also I’m not getting the connection with this picture?

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  456. If you don’t think some caution about JGMA’s identity is necessary in a context where it is supposed the hoaxer (lees caller) is a liar, and a liar who fakes identities and identification documents, you are silly.

    SarahW (af7312)

  457. If you don’t think some caution about JGMA’s identity is necessary in a context where it is supposed the hoaxer (lees caller) is a liar, and a liar who fakes identities and identification documents, you are silly.

    Yes, it’s entirely possible that JGMA is just a victim. And if that’s the case then JGCA’s point about “veering into potential vigilantism” is really not that far off the mark. In any case, caution certainly can do no harm.

    It’s entirely possible that JGMA is:
    1) The person in the writing class
    2) The person who filed the police report

    But is NOT:
    1) The person who called Lee
    2) The SockPuppeteer
    3) Alicia Pain, (et al.)

    It’s also possible that she could even be the SockPuppeteer (which may be marignally unethical, but is certainly not illegal) and still be in no other way involved.

    piglet (1bb7dc)

  458. A)I believe the woman who called Lee on 6/19 claimed to be Jenny George. I do not believe Lee lies.

    B)I believe the woman filing a police report in Boston some time between 6/19 and 6/26 claiming she had received death threats from Lee Stranahan also claimed to be named Jenny George.

    lamchopsl A therefore = B

    Daley, SarahW, koam show your work to prove claim A=B

    Stranahan on BTR radio last night – I have been too busy going down rabbit holes and getting yelled at to document my work.

    lamchopsl A=B

    Shoot me now.

    Stranahan – If you don’t think I’ve proved my conclusion, suggest an alternate rational explanation.

    Stranahan – Why are you people suggesting crazy alternate scenarios?

    Stranahan

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  459. The order at the end got a little garbled there.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  460. 458. Blackburnsghost

    I noticed the same thing earlier but got sidetracked. Pure paranoia, plus it looks like people are eschewing him. That’s understandable given his recent strange behavior. He seem to be lashing out at everybody trying to get anybody to contact him. If it isn’t drug induced, it’s classic clinical.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  461. Any metadata in those pics that might offer clues?

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  462. Well, one obvious sign that the blog post dated 6/30/2010 is suspect relates to the filename of the Jennifer Lopez image:

    http://www.hotnewsonglyrics.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Jennifer-Lopez-Put-On-You-Hooked-On-You-Lyrics.jpg

    But all that dated filename proves is that the post has been edited after or around April 2011. Has anyone else found any other indicators for that post’s actual date?

    h2u (0025d1)

  463. h2u

    It is a blatant misdate. Most probably only the year is changed from 2011 to 2010. Biggest clue as to the lacking merit is that the person used “JG?” as the picture’s title (when you hover over it). Clearly the person isn’t sure and may have just found the picture in the same manner as koam a week ago.

    Crispian (70c05e)

  464. Crispian, I am absolutely convinced you’re correct — but this whole investigation has been marred by the lack of convincing proof for a significant amount of “known facts.” The more clear-cut evidence we have, the better.

    h2u (0025d1)

  465. I have been following this story more closely in the last few weeks than I’d admit to anyone outside the circle of this readership. The story and sleuthing by Lee et al brought me to this blog which I didn’t read otherwise. I am intrigued as much by the characters and dynamics as the motivation and actions. I can’t wait to get home and see what happened while I was gone. “Yes,” I whisper, “I am a weineraholic.”

    I’ve spent the last few days trying to get the story and mystery clear in my head—no easy task when post comments hit the 400+ mark. I am sketchy on some of the conversations and who did what as weinergate was unfolding so perhaps amid work this holiday weekend, I’ll jump back and refresh myself. I am not sure there are answers there but I fear my addiction will force me to return. Until then.. I have defined for myself what I care about.. and what I don’t.

    Here are the questions that I don’t find relevant to my understanding:

    1.Is the professor/Lew Hunter real? – or more accurately is he who/what he’s presented as. First of all, I find it odd that a character (or real person) would offer up a professor as verification of his/her authenticity. I was pretty close with a handful of my professors and advisors—in very small schools/programs and never would it occur to me, even while enrolled, to use a professor to say I am who I say I am. When I need to prove I am who I say I am, I use proper ID– a DL, a passport. My bank isnt likely to take the word of my professor, my friend or my own mother. They want real identification to link my person to my action.

    Secondly, he’s not really provided any real information. Perhaps some insight—but even if he is real and does know the same JG who is believed to have been operating the Nikki Reid accounts, who contacted Lee and who reported death threats to BPD, his impression is still subjective and based on limited interaction. We’re not talking an old family friend here—we’re talking a professor—a leader of a workshop. Where he would be of great value is if someone had a photo of the JG who made the police report—or of screen capture of a skype convo JG as she was talking to Lee. That photo doesn’t exist as far as I know. It’s in the “wouldn’t it be great if we had … “ bucket. Without it– LH serves no purpose.

    OK.. there was only one. It feels like there should be more that doesnt matter.

    eman (0c693d)

  466. I agree h2u. I think every bit of evidence needs to be taken with a grain of salt as any piece can be misdirection by a troll. That is why so many of us are skeptical about the identity of JGMA. Even assuming Lee is absolutely right that JG is JG is JG…is she relevant to the story or not? Why aren’t we finding that that out if we know who she is?

    I think there is a split between those who think this mystery can be solved in a linear fashion, taking evidence at face value; and those of us who are happy to leave everything up in the air until it all snaps into place, letting any extraneous bits of information then fall away.

    I’m a mere spectator but it does seem wise to follow the latter route. But in any event, both Poirot and Scooby Doo solved mysteries in their own way – even though the latter sometimes involved pulling off mask after mask.

    Crispian (70c05e)

  467. 461. daleyrocks

    Would be great to have the actual timing of the list of events that I posted earlier.

    Evidence that A=B might include that JG gave JP the name of Prof Lew Hunter and also gave that to Detective (perhaps to desk sergeant?) but without timing, we don’t know if she could have learned of the Lew Hunter referral from Lee online before naming Lew Hunter to BPD.

    Same goes for other things Lee said JG said on phone, all learnable online and coulda been parroted by a 2nd JG who went to police.

    However we believe the JG who went to police is very likely the real JG as it’s been deduced that she must have had to verify her identity to BPD more than once and that they likely do independent verification on claimants.

    We need the timing.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  468. 465 h2u

    why does date of post matter now? as long as it’s not really a year ago, then we know that it was intentionally mis-dated to mislead us. And now it’s gone.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  469. The JGMA who went to Boston PD is real. No question. I just wonder if it is necessarily true that the JG that called Lee is the same person.

    If JGMA had an old twitter account that included personal information, and it was co-opted by someone who later contacted her making threats as “Lee’s follower,” wouldn’t the person making the threats to JGMA be able to impersonate her well enough in a call to Lee?

    1. They would have enough personal information about her to identify themselves as that person on a call to Lee.

    2. They would have the details about the threatening call, since they were the one that made it, including what JGMA would likely report to police.

    If I don’t have all the details and there is more to it, fine, but from what I have read here, just because a JGMA says similar things to the Boston PD as Lee’s caller doesn’t necessarily make them the same person.

    Considering we have been dealing with fake personalities for weeks I think better verification is necessary.

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  470. That is why so many of us are skeptical about the identity of JGMA.

    I’m skeptical of just about every single “fact” asserted by Stranahan or Preston… There has not been nearly enough verification to warrant many of the statements uttered by both.

    h2u (0025d1)

  471. 474 eman

    the reasoning wanders from “Is Lew Hunter real?” to “why would she use Lew Hunter as reference?” to “it doesn’t matter what Lew Hunter says.”

    1) Lew Hunter is real. It’s possible, but very unlikely that both Lee and Preston talked to a fakey Lew Hunter and Mrs. Lew Hunter.

    2) To students, famous professors are the most prominent people they deal with on a regular basis. Just because you wouldn’t use a professor as a reference, doesn’t mean this woman in her early 20s wouldn’t. I certainly used professors as references all the time at that age. The professors liked me and their prominence added credibility for me.

    3) Lew Hunter can confirm that there is a real JG and some factual and subjective info about JG. It doesn’t prove that the caller was the real JG. The caller could have been someone with knowledge of JG’s life pretending to be JG and also running the starchild account. But it’s more likely that she is just JG.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  472. why does date of post matter now? as long as it’s not really a year ago, then we know that it was intentionally mis-dated to mislead us. And now it’s gone.

    I’m honestly just interested in cementing down as many facts as possible regarding the timing involved in this entire affair. In this particular instance, I’ve seen numerous assertions that the post is misdated but I’d really like to see the evidence verifying that.

    Right now the only factual evidence I’ve seen is the date of the J-Lo photo. And all that can actually prove is that the post was *edited* sometime after April 2011. There are other clues that suggest the post was created with the back-date of June 30, 2010, but I’d like to see the facts.

    What else do we have?

    h2u (0025d1)

  473. h2u,

    I have to run, but I saw that “Hover” as well. I thought it an interesting notation of some kind.

    Gennette was/is claiming to be searching for the identities. It is still not clear if she was working with others. Some suggest RAW himself.

    Could the people here be covering ground that someone else has aready covered?

    cap'n john's nephew (d29614)

  474. “Yes,” I whisper, “I am a weineraholic.”
    hahaha I think I peed my pants…so.funny.

    lambchps
    It’s scary and sad

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  475. Just thinking out loud. I found it intriguing.
    That is all.

    cap'n john's nephew (d29614)

  476. Oh, and Blackburnsghost, I haven’t forgotten your questions to me. I havn’t been ignoring you.

    Not sure of branches, but the connection would have to be long before.

    Ok, I’m leaving for now… Really!

    cap'n john's nephew (d29614)

  477. koam 477

    1. I am not asking the question is LH real. I am saying I dont think the question is relevant. I have no reason to doubt he’s real.. however, some here have questioned whether he’s who we think he is. JP definitely questioned that according to Lee.

    2. While I surely used professors as references for jobs, credibility in my field, applications to grad schools, I wouldn’t have offered one up to the police. I surely wouldn’t have used a professor who ran an out-of-state WORKSHOP. He wasnt her advisor.. or even someone she took many classes with. She stayed at his home while taking a seminar. Perhaps they are now best buds. Perhaps that would change my mind. The fact remains, I find it odd.

    3. Agreed. LH did provide some facts and some subjective info about a woman who took his workshop. He can’t, however, confirm the link from his student to the JGMA who is starchild111 or who called Lee or who filed a BPD report. LH can’t prove anything of value.

    eman (176a86)

  478. So now Lee is trolling everyone following this to prove a point? Great.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  479. The arguments are getting more ridiculous each hour.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  480. 326,27,28,29…I do not know why he has a problem with me. He wants a sacrificial lamb and figures that I will sit back and take it. Posting that he knows that I ” did this and that and he knows it” just makes him look stupid. Based on his history and him calling Greg Howard’s children ” F–k–le”during “Twittergate”proves that he has some issues.
    Im just sitting back and watching him self destruct.

    goatsred (b20383)

  481. ==There are no iron-clad facts. There are only degrees of certainty==

    Congrats Crispian– you just received the same sermon I got 24 hours ago. In fact (as you are acutely aware) a few of us have been discussing the same basic issue about proof and verification on this same thread for almost 36 hours now. Crazy!

    As an aside, most everyone (I think) recognizes that good people can have different mental processes that guide their lives and thought patterns. Some us us are detail oriented–some are more oriented to the big picture. Some tend to be more trusting, some people even can be considered gullible– others are more leery by nature, some people are suspicious to a fault. Some people are convinced through linear logic–other folks are inspired by stream-of- consciousness creativity. Some people see humor almost everything–others have just had a more serious and sensitive side probably since birth. All of these traits have been exhibited at various times by various commenters on this blog. Great. Shows we’re human and are engaged in this story.

    That said, what I just don’t get is this, though: As far as I can see from reviewing the comments nobody really is telling lam (or Lee or Temper) to change their minds about their theories or demanding they accept other storyline possibilities. Yet lam, for instance, seems focused, intent, dare we say obsessed, in trying to get other commenters (including daily, SarahW, you, me, Maybee) to accept his (Lee’s) version exclusively without respecting whatever verification any of us individually might feel we need in order to comfortably do so. Why? Even if lam is satisfied and does not himself feel any need for more background verification, why is he apparently so personally offended if others see loose ends they’d still like to tie down?

    Bottom line–What is the end game? What if every single commenter here in unison said of Lee’s (not fully fleshed out in writing) Weinergate sock theory, “The Science is Settled!” Then what would happen next? Is there a next step? Does it involve light bulbs and energy credits?

    elissa (27a5d6)

  482. I cant know if Lee’s theory is the right one, but it’s the most or only plausible one right now in my view.

    Time will tell.

    The contradiction between Lew H “She’s very liberal politically” and the JG who called Lee “I’m just into reality shows, I know nothing about politics” tells us they’re not coordinated/co-conspirators.

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  483. “Why?”

    elissa – [Using my James Earl Jones voice] What are you trying to say, my dear?

    I just figured we have new bunch of Obama voters commenting, which is a good thing, but that we have not dumbed down the content of comments far enough to where they can comprehend them.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  484. Why would some hoaxer use a real identity ( JG ) behind the twitter starchild , to later change it to Nikki reed?
    Why would that hoaxer be prepared to release very specific information on JG ( Lew H connection ) ?
    Was this planned by the hoaxer that someone would track back the starchild account to JG by first finding out the jenay name and the connection to JG?
    When did the hoaxer plan to frame JG?

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  485. 487 elissa.

    “Conjecture is over.”

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  486. Elissa , someone could ask Lew H what JG looks like ,and ask the same to the police who saw JG MA and filed the report.

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  487. 487. elisia

    I am not personally offended by others’ opinions. I am typically responding to other people who are challenging mine. I usually don’t comment on the comments advocating extreme due diligence. That’s OK by me. I do feel when everybody is doing it on this fourm, it starts to make it look a little kooky. But I don’t feel I have to advertise my point of view, or continually harp on the subject. And I have not accepted Lee’s conclusions as facts. But i do think he has a reasonable approach to distinguishing the sublime from the absurd.

    lamchopsl (a91fe8)

  488. We need to refute questioned testimony with specific evidentiary facts.

    That someone’s statements don’t fit the popular theory isn’t what makes them lies.

    We also have to remember that we are getting a lot of testimony second-hand. Someone saying what someone else said or meant. This can be misleading.

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  489. When Patterico was pushing on JR, the walls started shaking, ghosts flew out of the closets, and the Devil himself appeared. Everody ran to the rabbit hole, while Pat stayed with the source.

    cap'n john's nephew (28dda5)

  490. “The Science is Settled!” Then what would happen next? Is there a next step? Does it involve light bulbs and energy credits?

    Oh how I love this comment. With my entire stash of incancesdents.

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  491. “The Science is Settled” That’s hilarious.

    First it was the Koch brothers circle of crazy fun and now we’ve got AGW. That’s two awesome loops in leftie craziness. Bulging briefs cause global warming AGW Anthony’s Global Warming. We might be on to something here as the conspiracy heads out for another lap.

    Johnny 5 is alive (5ccc5e)

  492. Comment by Blackburnsghost — 7/2/2011 @ 9:56 am

    I took your lead and went over there and looked at all of those articles and my name being in all of them.It has just made me more aware of all of the defamation that Neal “Stranded Wind” is causing to be attached to my name I want to thank you for pointing this out to me. I have been staying away from the Commie Rag he spews his hate in because I have just experienced his lies and slander for two months now.
    He is an evil organism.

    goatsred (b20383)

  493. Do you think he’s Sourshoes’ brother?

    koam @wittier (62b38e)

  494. A question here as to motive for followers of Patterico’s theory. It is at least the case that the starchild111 account owner who, writing under a false avatar, went to lengths to get Weiner to follow him/her is the same person who tried to have it reported that Breitbart was asking him/her to lie.

    Clearly this person does not like Breitbart, but how does obsessing over Weiner under false pretenses fit the theory of a sting on Breitbart? All of that effort just to be able to seem to have the goods? And the seeking Weiner campaign began when Weiner was following fewer than 100 people. Weiner does not look like a means to an end for starchild111 – he looks like the end itself.

    So again, what motive do you see behind the sweep of starchild’s actions from the start of his/her pursuit of Weiner?

    Nathan Wagner (39d8fb)

  495. “Clearly this person does not like Breitbart, but how does obsessing over Weiner under false pretenses fit the theory of a sting on Breitbart?”

    Nathan – If the purpose of the sting is to embarrass Breitbart by getting him to bite on a false smear of Weiner, I don’t follow the rest of your comment. The account was only speaking with Ginger and Gennette about politics for a couple of months before Weiner outed himself with the dic pic.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  496. @500 Nathan Wagner

    Love for Weiner and hatred of Breitbart isn’t mutually exclusive nor do I think starchild111′s initial motives were to destroy Breitbart, but rather, to get close to Weiner. Breitbart was only accused when starchild felt that a politician he/she beloved was being brought into negative limelight unnecessarily by Breitbart. Only when Weiner confessed and Breitbart was vindicated did the Reid’s story begin to change.

    rogerthat (f5aad4)

  497. The account was speaking with ginger and genette precisely because they were being followed by Weiner. I want you to tell me how you read the motive for that.

    Nathan Wagner (2d2146)

  498. Rogerthat, I agree. But in that case the starchild Weiner seeking was not part of a sting on Breitbart. Isn’t that contrary to the theory Pat hints at?

    Nathan Wagner (2d2146)

  499. #487 – elissa, you wrote:

    a few of us have been discussing the same basic issue about proof and verification on this same thread for almost 36 hours now. Crazy!

    It’s been a busy day, but coming in where I left off last night, you seem to have it right.

    At some point, there has to be a way to settle if JG who called Lee is identical to JG who filed the police report (investigation dropped, I see) or not. Just as a for-instance.

    It’s gotten crazy, all right.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  500. Nikki was following GC, GL AND Ethel. All three Discussing weiner. All initiated by Nikki

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  501. wow.

    Patterico is still on this?

    The Wingularity is near.

    wheeler's cat (e1af5e)

  502. @506 – Yes, precisely. Motive?

    Nathan Wagner (bc92ce)

  503. “The account was speaking with ginger and genette precisely because they were being followed by Weiner. I want you to tell me how you read the motive for that.”

    Nathan – To me, the DM’s speak for themselves – How did you get Weiner to follow you?, etc. Build credibility before the sting. No mystery. TommyX bought that they were real people.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  504. daleyrocks, let’s talk about this. I realize these are basic questions, but (1) what credibility? and (2) how is the sting intended to go down?

    Nathan Wagner (bc92ce)

  505. #508

    Should be fairly obvious. Nikki’s twitter account as it went from starchild in name to Nikki Reid in name was GL. (march)

    March is when GL started DMing with wiener. Nikki followed GL and tweeted GL about weiner.

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  506. Left out…

    Nikki’s FIRST NEW twitter FOLLOWER on her account as it went from starchild in name to Nikki Reid in name was GL. (march)

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  507. az5thdstrct,
    Okay, so are you saying the purpose of the account was to establish a relationship with Weiner – or was the purpose something larger?

    Nathan Wagner (bc92ce)

  508. Gennette, while doing an investigation, felt something was up with Nikki, then conversed with Nikki for a considerable period of time. Gennette claims that during those conversations, Nikki never brought up Weiner. So, Gennette brought up Wiener to Nikki first, eventually encouraging Nikki to contact Weiner and ask him to follow.

    cap'n john's nephew (28dda5)

  509. #513

    I’m saying to gather info on Weiner. With the info dumps from JR9, there’s info on weiner, right?

    Much of it not positive. Supposed GC/AW flirting that GC explains. More DM’s with cursing to Nikki etc

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  510. Okay, az5thdstrct, gathering info on Weiner for what purpose?

    Nathan Wagner (bc92ce)

  511. #516

    I have my theory. If you want to continue to discuss yours, I’ll read it

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  512. My point, here, is that I have a hard time with Pat’s theory – which I understand to be that the account was intended as a sting to get Breitbart.

    But if Pat’s theory is correct, it seems to me that the Weiner obsession tail is wagging the Breitbart sting dog.

    Nathan Wagner (bc92ce)

  513. 2. While I surely used professors as references for jobs, credibility in my field, applications to grad schools, I wouldn’t have offered one up to the police. I surely wouldn’t have used a professor who ran an out-of-state WORKSHOP

    Yes, the idea of JG having offered her workshop professor as a reference to the police really makes no sense at all. (And on all kinds of different levels).

    Surely the police would not normally ask for references from someone reporting a crime (especially in the South End of Boston).

    And surely if the victim of an alleged threat were to give the police the name of someone to vouch for their credibility, the police would not normally give that person’s name to anyone they called in the course of their investigation.

    If the professors name was mentioned by JG, the only thing that makes sense is that it was mentioned as part of the events surrounding the incident. For example, she may have mentioned (if she was aware of it) that the twitter account opened under her name had been connected to her via the fact she was following the professor Hunter’s writing program. Or perhaps (if she was aware of it) that LS had contacted this professor about her.

    Of course, not everything in this story _does_ make senses, so who knows – maybe she just mentions his name to everyone she meets. It would certainly be odd for the police to do to same though.

    Johnathan Creek (1bb7dc)

  514. Nathan – Motive – Sting Breitbart with false Weiner smear. Am I going too fast?

    I sting going to be more credible coming from admitted Weiner fans and correspondents who are disappointed in his conduct or from rabid conservatives? Am I going too fast?

    “Much of it not positive.”

    az5thdstrct Lee kept making references to negative info. Can you elaborate?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  515. #487 elissa,

    Well said!

    Crispian (70c05e)

  516. daleyrocks, your pace is just fine. So the account owner’s plan is supposed to go down like this:
    (1) Establish account under false pretenses (i.e. pretend to be high school girl)
    (2) Develop relationships with women Weiner follows in order to find out how to get Weiner to follow the account.
    (3) Get Weiner follow.
    (4) Go to Breitbart with fake dirt.
    (5) Reveal it was a farce after Breitbart publishes.

    Is that it?

    Nathan Wagner (bc92ce)

  517. DaleyRocks

    Not stating all negative, but some. If you have time, go back thru the info dump with negative in mind. Maybe you’ll see more/less than I did. IMO, it’s masked at times because it was presented with a focus towards GC.

    JR9 did not have a context of the GC/Weiner DM’s that “appear” to be flirty DMs. GC claims she was suspicious of Nikki, so she presented flirty in that context.

    without that context via JR9, flirty was flirty and a supposed DM convo with GC/AW flirting. At least via GC with multiple DMs

    There was the discovery of more than just two DMs between AW/Nikki. In fact, many more. Including cursing to a supposed minor.

    There was JR’s answer regarding wife’s statement:

    Unfortunately my wife does not stand by her letter. It was actually Patterico’s story on Ethel that causedus to question our daughter’s claim of only 2 DM’s between her and Rep Weiner. After Patterico’s story uncovered the discrepancy of Ethel saying there were 2 DM’s when later on itturned out to be 5 or 6, my wife and I questioned this.Thanks to Patterico, we realized we were in the same situation as Ethel and her parents. There weremore DM’s that Nikki did not want us to see. We gave Rep Weiner the benefit of the doubt at the time when my wife wrote her statement.Now we are disturbed about some of the content. Although we don’t want to jump to any conclusions.Since so many people have jumped to conclusions throughout this ordeal, it wouldn’t be fair.

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  518. Nathan @522 – Did not 1-4 happen, with an intermediary in #4?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  519. az5thdstrct – I completely discount JR9 statements since they were made after dic pic appeared.

    I don’t really care about GC’s impression of Nikki either.

    I’m looking for negative stuff about Weiner from Reids prior to dic pic appearing. Dic pic was a game changer. I’m not recalling negatives but will look.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  520. Mistakes were made.

    And possibly the single biggest mistake (except, of course for the actual dic pic tweet) was whoever had the brilliant idea for the bizarre pro Weiner-anti Breitbart contact by “Betty’s mom” which resulted in the first Tommy Christopher article on June 3. That was both a huge mistake and a big tell as to motive. At that point you will recall that Weiner was still denying all, was swinging from interview to interview and was getting strong support from the progressive blogosphere. So, for a couple of days it looked like Betty’s mom had further shored up AW’s reputation as an innocent, involved, misunderstood social media aficionado who had somehow gotten pranked. So far, so good. Right wing internet “harassers” and Breitbart are still in the bullseye even though Tommy did play down that angle.

    But all that fell apart just a couple days later. When Weiner tearfully admitted much (but not all) on June 6, the Betty mom story suddenly started to look ridiculous and kind of hokey to just about everybody– people started sniffing around–and Tommy eventually had to admit he’d been had. Then, even more damaging pictures came out and Weiner finally announced his resignation.

    From that point on almost all that has happened has revolved around the mysterious starchild and its relationship with Gennette and others. It appears to be about backpedaling and finessing to cover or explain away its role in the whole Betty mom fiasco with Tommy, including the falsified documents and false personas. The death threats add drama when people start digging too deep.

    Just think. Had “Betty’s mom” not voluntarily come forward with her crazy “IT’s all lies–LIES I tell you!”story, Tommy would probably not have written his infamous story. Or, if he had done basic journalistic research which might have taken a few more days, his Betty mom story might have still been in his computer, and would not already have been out there to cause trouble when Weiner confessed.

    Would very many of us, besides Lee and Goatsred, still be talking about multiple socks and hacks and fake dogs and sinister theories and twitter meltdowns and ancient professors had “Betty’s mom” just kept her damn mouth shut? I kind of doubt it. Good job there, Mrs. Reid whoever you are.

    Happy fireworks and picnics and freedom, everybody.

    elissa (27a5d6)

  521. Daleyrocks

    If you look at #515, I’m making it clear I’m referring to info dumps

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  522. daleyrocks, thanks for your patience. I’m going to let loose with my thoughts, now.

    In direct response to your #524 – If (4) happened, it happened only after Weinergate broke.

    But more broadly, I wanted to hear you actually lay the theory out and think about the motives, both so that I was clear on what you believed the plan was and so that we could discuss some of the steps directly.

    I find the theory to be far-fetched. I think that the theory’s Breitbart-sting tail is wagging the evidence’s Weiner-obsession dog. A few points:

    (A) If the bait is to be ostensible inappropriate DM’s between Weiner and a young woman, you need to set things up to protect Weiner. If Weiner falls into this and he believes the girl to be in HS, then, even if Breitbart is stung, it can still look bad for him – all the more so since his other follows will be examined closely. To protect Weiner, you need at least to chose a more innocuous persona. starchild111 did not.

    (B) Because some of Weiner’s behavior is already questionable – following GL – a sting on Breitbart will shine a spotlight on it. There’s too much uncomfortable truth in the matter to make this a politically wise sting operation.

    (C) starchild111′s interest in the women Weiner followed seems well beyond the purpose of the proposed plot. She wanted details of what they were talking about – real, not fake, dirt. But for the sting, the only thing starchild111 would have needed to be interested in is how to be followed by Weiner.

    (D) Just generally, the starchild111 pattern looks like the pattern of someone obsessed with Weiner. It does not look to me as if Weiner was merely a means to end for starchild111 – it looks to me like Weiner was the main event. To make Breitbart the focus of all of this is, it seems to me, to take the evidence of starchild111′s purpose in a direction it does not point.

    Take that for what it’s worth.

    Nathan Wagner (bc92ce)

  523. “If you look at #515, I’m making it clear I’m referring to info dumps”

    az5thdstrct – I was not trying to be critical. Sorry if you interpreted tone that way.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  524. “In direct response to your #524 – If (4) happened, it happened only after Weinergate broke.”

    Nathan – Thanks for the replies. #4 did happen and is documented. I need to refresh myself on the timeline.

    We will have to disagree on the rest.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  525. I have a new post up about not making assumptions.

    I’m seeing a lot of careless assumptions lately. And a lot of “I don’t need to see the evidence because I know everything” sort of attitudes.

    I happen to be trained in sticking to the evidence. So if you see anyone making a claim about what I supposedly think, I ask you to consider: does Patterico ACTUALLY think that? Or is someone simply CLAIMING that he thinks that?

    I have been quite clear about what I think. There have been sock puppets mimicking me and people trying to put words in my mouth. Don’t believe them. Be skeptical.

    For example, I hear that Neal Rauhauser is shopping around claims about me based upon the word of Brett Kimberlin, a convicted bomber who blew off a man’s leg who later committed suicide.

    Well, you might be inclined to disbelieve Neal, but you might be inclined to believe someone else who says: “Oh, I privately heard Patterico say x, y, or z.” Because maybe you think that person is trusted by me.

    Well, you don’t know who I trust. So please. Don’t make assumptions.

    Hi, Neal!

    Patterico (f724ca)

  526. I have one thing to add.

    Even hackers are “real” people.

    They may impersonate people on the Internet. They may lead a shadowy existence. They may mimic others; provide fake identification; tell lies; spoof phone numbers . . . all sorts of things.

    But they are real people. They are not Martians. If they commit crimes, and you catch them, there will be a flesh and blood person behind bars.

    I would caution anyone interested in this story (and public about their interest) to exercise caution. Assume there may be hackers who want to target you. This is not paranoia. It is basic safety.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  527. Okay helping a bit along the way to 1,000.

    Mike Myers (0e06a9)

  528. An update to my previous post:

    UPDATE: Lee Stranahan may be completely right about his theory that a woman with the initials “JG” is behind everything that has happened. He really may. But I have been reading his posts, and listening to his radio show with the yowling cat, and I know he has been saying and implying things about me that are simply not accurate. I have tried to remain silent about this, but I am listening to his radio show from last night and hearing how he misrepresents my position on all of this, and I can remain silent no longer.

    I disabled his account here at patterico.com on Thursday night, after I read this post of his, in which he ridiculously accused me of providing JohnReid9 with an uncritical platform to spout lies:

    Patterico has uncritically posted information from (drum roll) John Reid . . .

    . . .

    Publishing this sort of lie – totally unchallenged — from a person confirmed to be a fake seems very questionable on Patterico’s part. This is especially true about someone who has been so critical of Tommy.

    The implication that I have been somehow supportive of JohnReid9 is totally false. I have been publicly agnostic on JohnReid9 for my own reasons. For Lee to insinuate that I am a dupe, in the manner of a Tommy Christopher, was absurd and false. I was shocked and appalled to see such an accusation from someone with access to post on my blog. So I disabled his account.

    I decided to remain silent about it, until I fully listened to his latest radio show, where he discussed private communications with me, and continued to portray my positions in a misleading fashion.

    I’m not going to say more, as I have a feeling that I would regret anything else I said.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  529. It’s bad enough to have a Neal Rauhauser go around acting like I am “falling for” something that I EXPLICITLY DISCLAIMED any vouching for. To have it said by someone who was a guest blogger here — it just didn’t work.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  530. I’m still listening to this show. This, compared with some other things that happened tonight . . .

    Yeah, I’m really tempted to say something I regret. So I won’t.

    Some people think they’re really, really smart, and don’t realize how they have been played. We’ll leave it at that. There will be documentary proof at the appropriate time.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  531. Lee clearly doesn’t understand the concept of giving someone enough rope to let him to hang himself with.

    Andy (6ba927)

  532. I’ve been following this site everyday since the wiener scandal but this is my 1st time to comment. I have listened to Lee’s show and found it interesting but I also feel he is “locked into” his own theory. Things seem to be changing everyday and I am impatiently waiting to see what comes about with the police reports. Let’s get this thread to 1,000.

    Happy Trails (f63b95)

  533. lamchop@451-

    And when the decetive goes out to interview the person making the complaint, he also asks for identification to ensure he is talking to the person who made the complaint.

    I can’t speak for larger agencies, but in small towns an ID is requested just to make taking the report easier to initially fill in all of the little boxes (i.e. it is easier to copy info from the ID rather than keep asking, “How do you spell that?” and, “What is your…?”). Reports can and have been taken when ID is unavailable for some reason or another (otherwise you’d never be able to report your wallet stolen).

    In the 35 yrs I worked for a small town agency, we never initially demanded an ID before a report was initiated. Identities were confirmed through law enforcement computer systems if nothing else was available.

    roy in nipomo (bca582)

  534. Elissa–I am a little slow, and all due respect, I cannot totally grasp the context of this sentence. Can you just explain my part in it??

    “Would very many of us, besides Lee and Goatsred, still be talking about multiple socks and hacks and fake dogs and sinister theories and twitter meltdowns and ancient professors had “Betty’s mom” just kept her damn mouth shut? I kind of doubt it. Good job there, Mrs. Reid whoever you are?”

    goatsred (b20383)

  535. Stranahan’s petulance has become obvious in the past few days.

    Birdbath (19803d)

  536. (540)Because I am far from “sockpuppeting” anyone.
    I know the very real people that I am dealing with. Believe me.

    goatsred (b20383)

  537. Oh boy, is this great! -Flounder

    Tutu (54ce64)

  538. Lee is somewhat of a loose cannon.

    As many have noted, he is disorganized and has difficulty identifying for the reader and listener the difference between established facts and his speculations.

    I am still very interested in the story. I am just waiting for Pat, Lee, and others provide credible evidence concerning the identities of Jennifer, Nikki Reid, JohnReid9, Marinela Alicea, @PatriotUSA76, Dan Wolfe, Alicia Pain, et al.

    slp (f9a160)

  539. I’m beginning to think that this entire opera is being orchestrated by the guys who produce and direct Damages. Quirky characters, great scripts, and some of the best acting I’ve ever seen on television.

    Old Coot (b14047)

  540. Regarding rift between Pat & Lee:
    Sad news. I think Lee accused Pat of saying things Pat didn’t say. Lee has way of turning his own theories into hard facts in his own mind. There is real value in having a neutral platform where the John Reid documents can be exposed and roundly investigated, and criticized, as each one has been, and, as many have said, including Pat, that Reid can be given enough rope. What could be more valuable than the open interviewing thread mode for John Reid, including the chorus of criticism in the comments? Pat deserves credit for obtaining that. I have been posting for a long time that it’s valuable to have both Lee’s impassioned take on this and Pat’s methodical take and to have critical and productive interaction between them. Both have done very hard work on this. The record shows that Lee escalated the accusations and emotions, as is his way of doing things. I’ve asked Lee publicly in many comments not to estrange Pat in this way as it could remove that great “two-sides-of-the-same-coin” dynamic that we’ve enjoyed. Pat being so busy with his job and not posting as much has left a vacuum in which Lee has kept thinking that Pat is against him, like when the wife goes to Vegas with the girls and doesn’t return phone calls, the imagination wanders. Pat’s not against Lee and he’s not against finding the real truth, backed by evidence.

    Let’s hope this is temporary and they can work it out.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  541. Typical Lee post: I’m right, I know stuff that you don’t, which I’m not going to tell you about, and you’re wrong.

    Sorta pointless after a while.

    Tutu (54ce64)

  542. 547 Tutu

    You noticed that ?

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  543. koam @wittier – I think I can also point to at least three socks in these threads pushing Lee’s POV.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  544. There’s no evidence that the very smart Patterico entertains Ron’s thoughts for one second. That would be totally out of character for Pat.

    I don’t buy the Patterico theory at the top of this thread that the JG who called Lee was a hoaxer. Lee would have a better sense for that and Lee’s not saying she was a hoaxer. It seems to me like it’s the real JG MA who called Lee and talked to Preston several times.

    I also don’t buy Lee’s theory that the JG MA who called him is the sock puppet mistress, because I don’t think it’s proven with facts. (It might someday be, but has not been at all yet.) I question the components of that call that Lee has labeled as lies because he doesn’t distinguish between factual lies (proven wrong by evidence, not opinion) and “it doesn’t fit my theory” “lies” (which aren’t lies by my standard).

    I think we still need to consider an innocent JG scenario and then try to poke holes in that based on facts.

    So if an innocent and truly scared JG called Lee, fearing for her life, do you think she hung up feeling better about the situation, or a whole lot worse? And after talking to Preston, does an innocent JG, who is scared of Lee, feel safer regarding Lee or Lee’s followers? Lee with the blogs and radio show saying JG is guilty every day because he’s known it all along and the story has leaked that JG may be “troubled”? Do you think Preston made an innocent JG feel better about Lee? We know now how the Lee-Preston relationship has turned out.

    And then what does the scared JG do? She goes to the cops.

    So we need to take that JG story and see what just cannot be true (based on hard facts) about it and whether those issues make us not believe her at all. Then, in that case, is she a fake or is she behind some or all of the alleged socks.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  545. Yeah, koam, if it’s 2 sides of the same coin, Pat’s is worth 23¢ and Lee’s side is worth 2¢. For what it’s worth.

    Tutu (54ce64)

  546. Well, there is evidence Patterico is buying into Rons theory .. Read the theory here and read Patterco’s entusism for it .

    Then, go talk to Ron about it.

    Same theory. QED

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  547. It is very hard for me to keep track of the facts as opposed to the speculations and those offering the false trails and rabbit holes.

    I would ask that all the sock puppets who have posted in this thread identify yourselves and state your real name.

    slp (f9a160)

  548. See, when you explicitly state that you’re not presenting a theory, just making some true statements or asking pointed questions to let others draw conclusions or discuss… that means you are buying into and espousing a particular theory. Logic is not what some people believe it to be.

    Of course, disagree with Lee or ask for proof and you’re told you don’t know what it’s like to work a big blog story. I gave Lee the benefit of the doubt in my earlier comments on another thread. I assumed he was making valid connections based on knowledge I didn’t have and just couldn’t/didn’t want to share at the moment. My bad. Won’t happen again.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  549. This very post has Patterico espousing a theory.

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  550. 552. Lee

    I haven’t called Ron. Don’t need to open that can. You’re braver than I am.

    But I would think that Ron’s current ranting suggest that he thinks there’s a real JG who’s scared. I think his assertions about you are vastly overstated and largely unfounded. In Ron vs. Lee, I’m with Lee, if that makes you feel any better. But if there’s a real JG who’s scared and innocent, I can see why she’d find you scary. If she’s fake, then to hell with her.

    But are you, Lee, saying that Ron is saying that the real JG never called you on 6/19, Lee? That she never talked to Preston?

    Because that’s point #1 of the trial balloon that Pat has at the top of this (that Pat’s not saying is true but is asking us to poke holes in)

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  551. This is getting very tiresome.

    Lee,

    Give us the facts and the evidence to back up those facts.

    slp (f9a160)

  552. Ask Ron. read his tweets

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  553. I have a theory: smoke from Alder wood, when applied to pork, makes for some seriously good BBQ. I am currently testing this theory with 6 slabs of ribs, and 3 pork butts. If this doesn’t sound good to you, remember, I know some things about BBQ that I can’t tell you right now. Later in the day, though, you will discover that I am right, and you are wrong. Gotta crack open a beer…suggest you all do the same.

    Tutu (54ce64)

  554. Espousing
    1. to make one’s own; adopt or embrace, as a cause.
    Synonyms
    1. support, champion, advocate.

    Reading comprehension is your friend. Embrace it.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  555. UPDATE x2: I’m feeling better about the theory with each passing second.

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  556. Goatsred@540–

    I don’t quite know how to respond to your question. I can tell you feel dissed and for that I feel very bad as that was certainly not my intent. As I reread the quote I don’t quite see why you thought I dissed you or where you thought I accused you of sockpuppeting. But if you read it that way then perhaps others did too. That suggests my late night writing was unclear and for that I heartily apologize–and I welcome the chance to try to clear it up.

    My intended point in the whole overly-long comment I posted was to say what a clusterfark the Betty mom/Tommy chapter was, and how it had (probably unintentionally on the part of the perpetrators) called big attention to slimy behind-the scenes aspects of the case which continue to intrigue a lot of people who might otherwise have just stopped caring once Weiner confessed and resigned. By mentioning your name I meant to show that as someone who had skin in the game because of the way you had been used, you would likely have been one of the very few people still front and center asking questions and seeking answers after most others of us had fallen away and moved on to other things.

    elissa (fe7129)

  557. 560 Stashiu3 – Yesss!

    Tutu (54ce64)

  558. “someone-smarter-than-me-explain-why-this-is-not-possible” – Pat’s title

    most of the comments think this trial balloon doesn’t fly.

    the facts of the call and the facts before and after the call are not consistent with the 6/19 JG caller to Lee being a hoax.

    What’s more likely is that the calls JG reportedly received are a hoax, if she did receive calls, intended to falsely implicate and confuse.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  559. “feeling better” falls far short of espousing or embracing.

    Take a step back, a deep breath, and collect yourself. Jumping is good exercise, jumping to conclusions… not so much. Credibility is a difficult thing to recover when you ignore the first rule of holes.

    On a tangent (to revisit your comments on that other thread I mentioned), did you ever get more information about who DRJ is to this site? If so, feel free to look at her comments again and see if you might reconsider your responses. Or you can continue to blindly stumble from conjecture to conjecture, claim others just don’t get it or would agree if they had your special information, and essentially complete your beclowning. Your choice.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  560. “with each passing second.”

    If you want to pretend that’s not advocating a theory, go ahead.

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  561. Comment by elissa — 7/3/2011 @ 7:23 am

    I did not fell dissed in any way whatsoever…I did not understand the context. After reading all of these comments, sometimes my mind just freezes.It then goes into anti-Weinergate mode. Thanks for the explanation and please understand that this group here has never inferred or outright stated one negative thing about me.
    It’s hard for me to follow all thats going on here.

    goatsred (b20383)

  562. Is feeling comfortable with a theory the same as advocating a theory? I don’t think so.

    Tutu (54ce64)

  563. It’s not pretending, it is called reading what is written. You’re still not exercising, despite all the jumping.

    Friendly advice of the day: Give up trying to spar with me and consider what people are saying instead. Hard-headed and hysterical is a bad combination. Besides that, you’ll lose. Trust me, I have special information.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  564. Who are you?

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  565. And if you have special information, present it or STHU.

    I believe you have special information like I believe John Reid doing a video chat.

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  566. Just shows you haven’t gone to the archives as I suggested. Pity.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  567. Blah blah. Pity.

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  568. 572 Lee – Ditto

    Tutu (54ce64)

  569. Stashiu3 and Tutu, various numbers,all have good words to say here today.

    Pat’s not a liar. Disagreeing with someone or misunderstanding someone doesn’t make someone a liar. It’s time to walk it back and say that there are disagreements on 1) theories, 2) process, 3) some reported facts, but that doesn’t make either of you or most of the commenters here liars. You’re both very valuable and both are more valuable with each other in the discussion, challenging each other, constructively, entertainingly. Walk it back. Sleep on it. Come back another day and reconcile.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  570. Ask a question, Tutu. Waiting…

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  571. Where did I say he’s a liar?

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  572. Tutu, he was saying the theory had yet to be exposed as wrong. which was his way of goading people to work harder on seriously debunking it. At the time he posted it, a lot of comments were just saying ‘prove it right! Of course it’s wrong!’ instead of seriously looking at it.

    When you’re initially told you’re obviously completely wrong, and over time no one is able to actually show that, of course that’s going to lead to a ‘I’m feeling better’ type statement.

    However, it’s dishonest to claim Patterico isn’t also saying things like

    Lee Stranahan may be completely right about his theory that a woman with the initials “JG” is behind everything that has happened. He really may.

    He’s got an open mind. It’s that simple. That’s all there is to it, and if you take some of his statements of open mindedness and omit others, I can make Patterico look like he’s 100% on board with one side or I can make him look 100% on board with the other side.

    Selective reporting is the very heart of how media mistakes happen. Everyone reporting Patterico’s statements about how he’s not disclaiming one direction should be willing to report the converse statements. If they aren’t, it’s going to get on everyone’s nerves eventually.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  573. btw, my comment isn’t critical of Tutu. Quite the opposite.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  574. Stashiu,
    Finally have some time today to catch up on the post-resignation Weiner stuff here (which am looking forward to being less confused about) but could you just point me to the thread you’re referring to where DRJ and Lee had the conversation you mention above. Thanks much–

    no one you know (136b86)

  575. I’m “feeling better” about the Yanks winning the World Series. I’m also not betting my life on it.

    It doesn’t make anyone who says “Phillies” or “Sox” a liar, no matter the outcome in October.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  576. I spoke to Patterico a few hours ago and he was arguing adamantly for this theory, with no evidence whatsoever. It’s what he believes.

    Does he say that the obvious truth MIGHT be right? Sure.

    And that’s the problem. He believes a wacky theory. He believes it MORE than a simple, provable theory. And when challenged, he bans people.

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  577. Geez Lee, I liked it better when it was just Gennette getting pissed at me. I really started out liking all your reporting on this, and still am OK with you, but my question would be simply…when will you give us all the information that you have, so that we can support, or refute your claims?

    Tutu (54ce64)

  578. Quick question, Lee. Have you released all the information regarding weinergate? If not, why?

    ∅ (e7577d)

  579. Ahh… the magic words “STHU”. I don’t think so bub.

    I don’t have anything on Weinergate, if that’s what you’re assuming I meant. On this site however, different story. Special information is sort of a hobby. The only one who can tell me to shut up here and make it stick is Patterico.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  580. Lee, did you give Pat evidence that the JG who called you was also the real JG who went to police?

    If so, what evidence? Did you pick the most persuasive concrete evidence?

    (And I’m on your side on this question)

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  581. No, I just told you. See — I’ll do it. You’re blowing hot air. STHU. (That means ‘heck’ btw.)

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  582. Comment by no one you know — 7/3/2011 @ 7:49 am

    Here is it noyk… glad to help.

    Lee, who got banned for challenging Patterico? Doubt it. Strongly.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  583. 581 no one you know

    Is this it?

    Comment by koam @wittier — 7/3/2011 @ 7:54 am

    It sure does look like it, and thanks very much. (PS I really don’t think “Paul” on that thread is the same Paul who used to post here a few yrs ago. Wow.)

    no one you know (136b86)

  584. And when challenged, he bans people.

    Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/3/2011 @ 7:52 am

    I’ll eat Patterico’s hat if this is true.

    Don’t pretend Patterico is viewpoint discriminatory.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  585. Comment by Stashiu3 — 7/3/2011 @ 8:01 am

    Whoops, we cross posted. Thanks to you too. *goes to read a buncha posts with Diet Coke in hand*

    no one you know (136b86)

  586. I chose to ignore Paul that day. Others didn’t. I say, “don’t feed ‘em.”

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  587. No, I just told you. See — I’ll do it. You’re blowing hot air. STHU. (That means ‘heck’ btw.)
    Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/3/2011 @ 7:57 am

    See? That reading-comprehension problem will get you every time. The key words were “and make it stick“. Try that on for size.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  588. When responding to questions or posts, it helps to use the post number and commenter’s name in the first line. That way the readers know which question is being answered or which comment is being replied to or commented on. (as we approach #600)

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  589. Stashiu3 – 1
    Lee – 0

    (I’ll keep a running score. We’ll start there or you’d already be down too far to ever make it back.)

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  590. Of course, you already are and just don’t know it.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  591. @ 577 asked my question, Lee…waiting…

    Tutu (54ce64)

  592. (PS I really don’t think “Paul” on that thread is the same Paul who used to post here a few yrs ago. Wow.)
    Comment by no one you know — 7/3/2011 @ 8:02 am

    It’s not. Good call.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  593. Tutu,

    What information do you think I’m holding back?

    Answer is — nothing that Patterico isn’t holding back. In fact, I’m holding back a LOT less than Patterico is.

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  594. Hmmm… I can still comment. Guess I’ll keep that point. Heh.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  595. Answer is — nothing that Patterico isn’t holding back. In fact, I’m holding back a LOT less than Patterico is.
    Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/3/2011 @ 8:17 am

    Yet Patterico is not making assertions without evidence like you do. Want to bet there’s a connection there?

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  596. Now, who got banned for challenging Patterico? Or were you just blowing hot air there?

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  597. I am still waiting for someone to back up the claim Patterico banned people merely for challenging him, Charles Johnson style.

    Do we get to just assert whatever the F we want and then refuse to back it up with evidence?

    Also, why would someone boast they are holding back a ‘lot’ of information? Seems like something to be ashamed of.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  598. Cross posted with Stashiu. But yeah, that’s a serious accusation against a blogger.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  599. Your claims are much more assertive, Lee. In any case, if anyone is holding back info, don’t expect that I shall believe your claims, because you say I should. And, seriously, you are holding back a lot less…does not make you a lot better.

    Tutu (54ce64)

  600. No worries Dustin. Lee succeeded in (slightly) annoying me and destroyed most of his credibility with me in the process. If he wants to dance, set the music.

    “I’m your Huckleberry”

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  601. He’s no daisy, Stashiu3.

    Good to see your posts, even if the reasons are due to irritation.

    Simon Jester (e07fe9)

  602. Patterico is the one holding back a lot of info — not me.

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  603. Comment by Simon Jester — 7/3/2011 @ 8:34 am

    I still read every comment on every thread and occasionally work behind the scenes when things are hectic. Got a lot of other things going on IRL right now though, so following through with conversations is usually spurred by passion. Unfortunately, annoyance is a passion. ;)

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  604. the facts of the call and the facts before and after the call are not consistent with the 6/19 JG caller to Lee being a hoax.

    Sorry, I’m totally missing this one. What’s inconsistent in facts with the call being a hoax ? The fact that the caller got some of the information wrong (such as claiming a CA address seems supportive of it being a hoax). So does blocking the number.

    JP – who talked to the same person- seemed to think the caller was, if not a hoax exactly, at least of questionable veracity. (Yeah, she thinks that about everyone, but still).

    The only information I’ve seen that supports the JG caller being the same as police-report-JG (who we assume is real) is the alleged mention of the professor in both cases. But I don’t think that indicates they are the same person at all. The only reason she would mention the professor to the police is if he was part of the story connecting LS and her. (I.e. someone claiming to be her called LS who called her professor).

    Johnathan Creek (1bb7dc)

  605. In fact, I’m holding back a LOT less than Patterico is.

    Comment by Lee Stranahan

    Yeah, I stand corrected, Lee. I apologize.

    /see how easy that was for me?

    And I think Patterico should explain what he is holding back, or at least tell us if it’s ‘a lot’ as you say and some generalized explanation for why it’s being held.

    Same for you. Whatever you’re holding back should be revealed at some point. Whatever you know or don’t know should come out.

    If we throw it all out there my guess is we’ll be forced to admit we don’t know the answers for sure right now. Maybe we never will.

    Anyway, I’m not comfortable with everyone but Patterico vaguely painting a picture of what P knows. For all I know, it’s just enough to punch a whole in our preconceptions.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  606. 99 bottles of weinergate on the wall, 99 bottles of weinergate. You take one down, pass it around, 100 bottles of weinergate on the wall.

    oneisnotprime (c491ed)

  607. I meant “HOLE” ARGH

    Dustin (b7410e)

  608. Patterico is the one holding back a lot of info — not me.
    Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/3/2011 @ 8:34 am

    He’s also not making assertions based on that info. Take a lesson young man. Learn how it’s done from someone smarter and wiser.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  609. Is the goal to garner 1,000 comments, or do the comments have to be pertinent to the subject?

    Alan Kellogg (43c76b)

  610. “And when challenged, he bans people.”

    This seems particularly strange as it is made in the comments of the site that is said to have banned him? Perhaps I have a different meaning for the word.

    Lee,
    I don’t really care about these theories but when you question Patterico’s integrity you lose all benefit of a doubt with me. He has earned an enviable reputation on that score over years of exposure on this site. Stashiu3 and DRJ are two of the most respected contributors on this site and again have earned that respect over years both here and on other sites, so you just kind of double down on fail with that.

    You don’t know me so this means nothing to you but I have known Stashiu3 for years online and in real life and while we don’t always agree, his honor and honesty are well established and he has earned and deserves the high esteem in which he is held. Good luck telling him to shut up.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  611. Dustin,

    Have you learned nothing from Breitbart my friend? Hold your cards close to your chest and never interrupt someone making a mistake. Be patient or you’ll tip the mark.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  612. Is the goal to garner 1,000 comments, or do the comments have to be pertinent to the subject?
    Comment by Alan Kellogg — 7/3/2011 @ 8:42 am

    Yes. ;)

    Mac!!

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  613. Stashiu3, you are one of the good guys, as I know from experience.

    Lee, you should keep that in mind. Stashiu3 is honest, and has (for the several years I have followed his posts here) always stood up for what is right.

    He’s like Patterico that way.

    Simon Jester (e07fe9)

  614. What Machinist wrote.

    Simon Jester (e07fe9)

  615. Have you learned nothing from Breitbart my friend? Hold your cards close to your chest and never interrupt someone making a mistake. Be patient or you’ll tip the mark.

    Comment by Stashiu3 — 7/3/2011 @ 8:42 am

    I wish I had the ability to play things out like that. If P is playing that kind of card game, I guess he’ll have to withstand my impatience until things reveal themselves.

    But it’s been ongoing for a while. And while I realize most didn’t take it seriously, I felt a lot of people were suspicious of me for really quite unfair reasons, so I have an additional interest in the truth being completely exposed at some point.

    At any rate, thanks for the hint as to what’s going on. And it’s great to see you comment once in a while. Hopefully DRJ will return when the dust settles too.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  616. Good to see you my friend.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  617. I’m out.

    Not my site and I’m outnumbered.

    I’ll answer questions on Twitter or my site or the radio show or wherever. I’ve answered more questions than anyone on what they believe and I’ve answered them honestly.

    Lee Stranahan (708cc3)

  618. goatsred @566 – Thanks for the link. Clarice and MayBee are both great. The movie of that Kipling story, with Sean Connery and Michael Caine, was great, IMHO.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  619. He’s like Patterico that way.
    Comment by Simon Jester — 7/3/2011 @ 8:44 am

    Nobody puts Baby in a corner!

    (I’m in old-movie mode I guess.)

    By the way, more than one person has said that Patterico and I sound almost exactly alike too. First time I talked to him on the phone was weird. Then I heard him on an online radio show and it was even worse. He sounds better though somehow.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  620. I’m out.

    Not my site and I’m outnumbered.

    I’ll answer questions on Twitter or my site or the radio show or wherever. I’ve answered more questions than anyone on what they believe and I’ve answered them honestly.

    Comment by Lee Stranahan

    It’s like rain on your wedding day.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  621. Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/3/2011 @ 8:48 am

    Notice no mention of who got banned. Shall I take a point? I shall!

    Stashiu3 – 2
    Lee – 0

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  622. Stashiu3 and Machinist – Good to see you.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  623. Answer is — nothing that Patterico isn’t holding back. In fact, I’m holding back a LOT less than Patterico is.
    Comment by Lee Stranahan — 7/3/2011 @ 8:17 am

    Alright, now that you’ve admitted to holding back information, can you tell us why?

    ∅ (e7577d)

  624. “…I’m outnumbered.”

    What’s that saying about sitting down when everyone tells you you’re drunk?

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  625. I haven’t followed this whole thing as closely as many others on here have, but I was always suspect of Lee’s suddenly believing the left was wrong about anything, even before the Weiner escapade. Hasn’t he proven the liberals is always right and will never accept another opinion? I didn’t listen to any of the radio shows, but my question about the cat yowling: was it for real or part of the act to make it sound like he was actually at home?

    Sorry, I’m too fearful of liberal wolves suddenly in conservative sheep’s clothes.

    Not much of a comment but hope it helps your goal.

    PatAZ (efd43b)

  626. Mentions of “giving someone enough rope to hang themselves” understandably makes me a bit nervous, but no one can dispute it’s appropriateness in this context. Just sayin’

    ropelight (8ea8ac)

  627. Stashiu3, and I’ve missed you too my friend.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  628. Lee,

    Your problems don’t have anything to do with the site you’re on bub. At least you finally admit it’s what you “believe”, not what you “know”. That’s progress. Look back and you’ll see that nearly every challenge you received was based on you making assertions of fact without evidence. Asking you for evidence is not calling you a liar. We’re a “trust, but verify” crowd here.

    I gave you the benefit of the doubt for a long time, even though you were getting snippy about being challenged. I believe you’re honest. Now, I also believe you’re stupid. Don’t let the door…

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  629. Thanks guys… as I said, I’ve been around. I just get caught up in chunks rather than following in real time now. Too tiring otherwise. Good to see y’all too. :)

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  630. Heh, he said chunks.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  631. That was a pre-submit edit. Not sure you want to hear the word I first used. Heh.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  632. Sparing my tender sensibilities. What a gentleman!

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  633. Tried to post something and it wouldn’t “take.”. Hmmm

    Simon Jester (e07fe9)

  634. Seriously though, I hinted and then flat-out told the man he should check himself. No insight whatsoever. Believes what he believes, no matter what. I don’t expect him to have a prosecutor’s mindset, but how many times can you tell a person their logic is faulty before you have to conclude they’re just too stupid to understand? What’s really sad is that the left will never accept him back, and the right will if he can just keep his facts separate from his opinions. So far, I haven’t seen anything to indicate he can do that.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  635. Patterico is very lenient with commenters, so accusing him of banning for an opinion is just crazy.

    Stashiu3: love your smackdowns. You say so much in so few words.

    PatAZ (efd43b)

  636. I think I understand the pressures that Lee is under and so I’m a bit sympathetic.

    But its a shame that he decided to be antagonistic to Patterico.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  637. Comment by PatAZ — 7/3/2011 @ 9:13 am

    Now I’m blushing… no really, redness in the face. Fact, not opinion. Looked in the mirror, took a picture, showed it around to several folks to see if they agreed it looked like a blush, verified the definition of blushing in the dictionary, then compared photos tagged as blushing on google to ensure consistency.

    Well, maybe it is just opinion since I didn’t really do all that. (What were you saying about “so few words”? lol)

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  638. I went to bed confused. I am waking up discombobulated (I like that word). I haven’t yet listened to Lee’s shows, so I don’t know what he said.

    Summary version, please? Or shall I read all the comments?

    Dianna (f12db5)

  639. Wow, I go to the store, and when I get back, Lee has taken his ball and gone home.

    Tutu (54ce64)

  640. Stashiu3, I don’t know you, but I love you, man.

    Tutu (54ce64)

  641. Patterico, is it true that you got the information for your story on “Ethel” from John Reid?

    Secondly, if this is true, shouldn’t you have disclosed this?

    Thirdly, again, if true, doesn’t that mean when you said that you were not being used by John Reid to disseminate information, that you were not being truthful?

    Woodshedder (44e97d)

  642. Comment by Stashiu3 — 7/3/2011 @ 9:22 am

    Just for verification: it’s not blushing till at least one side of your neck turns red. /evidentiary

    PatAZ’s comment reminded me of the smackings you used to give Emperor/love2008. Wonder what happened to him/her that he lost interest (still not convinced Emperor wasn’t female).

    no one you know (136b86)

  643. But its a shame that he decided to be antagonistic to Patterico.
    Comment by SPQR — 7/3/2011 @ 9:19 am

    I think it stopped being a shame when he shared behind-the-scenes information that Patterico was not sharing publicly. Correction: the shame just changed location.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  644. Stashiu3, I was trying to be understanding but that is a major judgment fail.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  645. Lovey was/is female. Along with her socks from Nigeria and elsewhere.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  646. Comment by Dianna — 7/3/2011 @ 9:22 am

    Discombobulated is a fantastic word. Practically an onomatopoeia since even sounds disorganized. ;)

    Have been busy w/ IRL stuff lately so after Weiner resigned I didn’t follow much of any of it. But I’ve liked Lee’s stuff and was surprised today to see that his account has been disabled. So am going to review the post-resig posts, and probably some comment threads too, to see what’s going on w/ the calls and death threats (!) etc. It’ll probably make sense after that but it sure doesn’t now.

    no one you know (136b86)

  647. I know SPQR, but Lee has torpedoed all credibility with me. You’re kinder than I am in this.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  648. “Thirdly, again, if true, doesn’t that mean when you said that you were not being used by John Reid to disseminate information, that you were not being truthful?”

    Woodshedder – Lee took a phone call from lying liar Jenny George in MA. Is he being used by her? Just askin’.

    Who are you?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  649. Real-life beckons… be well.

    Stashiu3 (44da70)

  650. I’m just here to help us get to 1000.

    Go Patterico!

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  651. “Lovey was/is female. Along with her socks from Nigeria and elsewhere.”

    Stashiu3 – That was always my take.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  652. 1st!

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  653. Patterico, is it true that you got the information for your story on “Ethel” from John Reid?

    Sounds like a very particular bit of info. And I know what it’s like when someone gets a very very specific bit of info that has been ripped from context, so I’m very suspicious how you heard this.

    Did Patterico verify the Ethel bit? I mean… you know, how Fox News and the police confirmed some contact between them, and there was online records of it? If John Reid fed Patterico a host of information, and Patterico reported the aspects he was able to verify as verified, and the aspects he couldn’t verify as unverified, what’s the problem, anyway?

    Dustin (b7410e)

  654. #653

    It’ll probably make sense after that but it sure doesn’t now.

    Comment by no one you know — 7/3/2011 @ 9:31 am

    So far, this post-Weiner story has made very little sense.

    I was fond of one theory – that the manipulator of sock puppets had been involved in the threats, and a by-stander (JG in MA) had gotten involved by accident – but since the police seem (according to last night’s information?) to have dropped the investigation, I may be wrong.

    I ran across comments between Daleyrocks and someone else (sorry for not remembering!) somewhere back in the 500′s in which Daley laid out a theory I thought was pretty convincing, but the other party pointed out its main problem – “the ‘Breitbart sting’ tail wagging the ‘Weiner obsession’ dog.” (That really is a quote).

    The thing everyone would like to know is Who is Who?

    Dianna (f12db5)

  655. holy hellacious
    posts batman colonel leave for
    day all hell break loose

    ColonelHaiku (822dce)

  656. Dianna – I don’t view it as a problem with the theory. Think it through again ignoring the post dic pic distractions which derailed it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  657. who are you, who who, who who, I really want to know!

    Tutu (54ce64)

  658. Dianna – It’s par for the course with progressives inserting plants at tea party rallies, which I have witnessed first hand, fake videos from Think Progress, and other vile disinformation campaigns.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  659. I am Spartacus!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  660. #663 – Daleyrocks

    I like your theory. It’s been my working assumption from the start.

    However, the behaviors displayed by the ‘starchild111′ and ‘Nikki Reid’ accounts in the six weeks to two months before the infamous tweeted dicpic don’t quite fit.

    And who – unless we’re going to posit some disturbed person with absolutely no connection to any of our real people, sock puppets, investigators or anyone at all – is issuing threats?

    Dianna (f12db5)

  661. #664 – Tutu – LOL! Right! Rock on!

    #665 – Daleyrocks – I know. Which is why I said that your theory matches my working assumptions.

    Maybe it’s all gotten bogged down in the undergrowth of misdirection and sock puppetry.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  662. Here is yet another comment on the way to 1000. It is sad when we can’t get along and agree to disagree without being disagreeable. I did not read all the comments, but sometimes it feels like we’re going down a rabbit hole after the rabbit has been eaten by a stoat.

    Jeff Mitchell (481f2a)

  663. @ 506 Nathan Wagner

    My apologies for the late reply. My point is that I don’t believe Weiner was used as a set up for Breitbart, but rather starchild wanted to get close to Weiner. But once everything hit the fan, starchild used that opportunity to protect Weiner and throw Breitbart away. Perhaps starchild was set up as a high school girl because of the success of Ethel. That still makes point 2 and 3 valid, I think. But is anyone sure at this point? I’m not, unfortunately…

    On Patterico and Lee

    I was surprised when I’ve seen the posts from Lee the past few days. They were disrespectfully critical of Patterico and I assumed (my fault on making assumptions) that the two had agreed to disagree. But, Lee crossed the line when speaking for Pat. Pat has been very clear from the beginning that he is neutral on a lot of this until more facts come out which is a position that a lot of commenters here have also taken. I think most of us agree that we have theories, but until the facts come out we don’t know for certainty. As for Pat giving JR his time here, I thought Pat was being fair and allowing JR to give his side (but not endorsing him or discrediting him). We allowed GC to give her case, but vetted her when flaws appeared. JR was also vetted and rightfully so. Pat and the commenters here deserve kudos for still investigating this when others have abandoned it.

    rogerthat (f5aad4)

  664. NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE!!!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  665. For the love of God and all that is holy, give it a rest.

    Country goin down the tubes- discuss

    Jones (0a69fd)

  666. It’s like rain on your wedding day.

    “It’s the good advice that you just didn’t take”.

    (Ironically, just helping to get to 1,000)..

    piglet (1bb7dc)

  667. Patterico, I don’t think you know the definition of “uncritical”. Hint: it does not mean “supportive”.

    Molon Labe (dc676c)

  668. (Prefaced before I put this out there – I have only read this thread up to comment 600 or so, so if there is evidence that contradicts this I have not seen it.)

    In response to some comments about the “@Weinergate: The Death Threat Black Hole” post I went back and read that post and its comments in one sitting (for the first time.)
    Some brief thoughts on that thread and its dynamic.

    Did any one else find interesting the fact that Paul and one other major contibutor to the conversation never posted at the same time period?

    That this other contributor made an unnecassary and odd reference when rejoining the conversation after Paul had been extremely active?

    That Paul unflinchingly supported this contributors every comment and theory?

    That this contributor referenced Paul several times but never directed a comment to him?

    That Paul effusivly praised the contibutor and his theories but never addressed a comment to him directly?

    That Paul shared several times this contributors typing gaffes: leaving out words, leaving extranous words in after editing statements, etc.?

    That Paul and this contibutor seem to have shared (sometimes irrationally) feelings and opinions toward and about other commentors?

    That Paul attacked commentors who questioned this contributor as though he himself had been attacked, and this contributor attacked those who questioned Paul (even going after a blog stalwart (who admittadly had not been around lately))when that person questioned Paul?

    I am now more than a half hour late leaving for work so I will have to let that be that.

    I bring up these questions with no feeling of vindication as I have supported this contributor and his unique work in the past.

    (Sorry for typos- I have less than no time to go back and proofread.)

    Have Blue (dbbcd4)

  669. The fact is, some people just don’t get it and just don’t have it. It = integrity.

    Anitabusch (a025dd)

  670. It’s been always clear to me that Patrick is using a Socratic method in his posts. He’s trying to draw the participants out and assemble the stories so he can compare them. When he asks why a certain scenario can’t be true, he’s acting in that fashion. He wants to hear all the arguments.

    Patrick did this a while back with global warming climate change climate instability, although I missed what he thought of those arguments.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (62e76d)

  671. I think that both Lee and Patterico have made good points as this story unfolds.

    It was my understanding that John Reid proivde the context on the tumbler post. However there was a screen cap of “Ethel’s” tumbler page posted by goatsred on yfrog quite some time ago.

    Patterico also did not just post the informtion / lead from JR but was able to verify the information from at least one additional source or sources.

    Lee has also focused on the motives of the various sockpuppets and players in this very odd story of how Twitter has become relevant!

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  672. Have blue – Oh, There are commenter socks all over the place. I suppose it is part of the entertainment value of this to spot them, a kind of Where’s Waldo, although more conspicuous than Waldo.

    SarahW (af7312)

  673. SarahW – Commentor socks are one thing (especially if they are inended only to be funny or insulting), this is a whole ‘nother animal entirely!

    Have Blue (dbbcd4)

  674. SarahW, Shari Lewis would be so proud of this thread.

    Tutu (54ce64)

  675. UPDATE x2: My decision has been vindicated by Lee’s latest post at his site, in which he displays in spades his recent tendency to a) disclose private conversations that he should know good and damned well I would not want him to discuss, and b) get what I said in those discussions wrong.

    Again: Lee seems to be unable to distinguish between a theory and a fact. He is also apparently unable to distinguish between someone advancing a theory and claiming a fact as true. This leads him to put words in my mouth that I didn’t say, or to misunderstand what I have said. Asking someone to consider evidence, and to consider how that evidence might support a possible theory, is not the same as declaring that possible theory is true.

    Lee is again portraying me as gullibly accepting the views of people whose views (I assure you) I am not gullibly accepting. Neither am I publicly denouncing those people. I am taking in information. Lee used to understand that.

    Incidentally, I have not “banned” him but simply disabled his account to “no role on this blog.” He still has the ability to comment, although if he comes on here and misrepresents the nature of our private communications, or even discusses them, that may change. There is simply too much at stake to dick around.

    I do not want to be in a fight with Lee, but I strongly encourage him to stop spilling the private details of every conversation he has with people onto the Internet. There is a reason I feel I cannot talk to him any more, and why I consider it a huge mistake that I even tried last night.

    You may comment on this post here.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  676. Tutu – I thought ShariLewis was having a Temper Tantrum?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  677. Patterico: I feel that there is a subtext here that most of us don’t “get” (I know: duh!). I can’t wait for the real story to emerge from all of this. As for Mr. Stranahan, the situation reminds of the story I tried to post this morning…which the site wouldn’t “take.” It was in reference to Stashiu3′s attempts to get Mr. Stranahan to not act reactively.

    My father spent many years working in the oilfields of Southern California among Texans, who had a wide variety of pungent and evocative aphorisms. My father picked them up, and often used them. For a good taste, check out the long out of print “Texas Crude.” Not all of the sayings are family friendly, as you might imagine.

    Anyway, I used to play poker with my father fairly often. I would try to bluff him, and he would grin, move his ever-present toothpick from one side of his mouth to the other, and drawl “Son, you don’t want to let your mouth write a check you ain’t prepared to cash.”

    Patterico understands this. I have this feeling that Mr. Stranahan doesn’t “get” that what he is doing now works against what he would like to achieve.

    But that’s his business, not mine.

    Patterico, hang in there. It sucks to trust someone and find out that you shouldn’t.

    Simon Jester (2df2ee)

  678. The most mysterious thing to me is why Patrick wants this thread to reach 1,000 comments. He normally goes for quality, not mere quantity. Regardless, I’m happy to help out.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (62e76d)

  679. I can’t help it. When Lee first started posting on PP, I kept getting somewhat of a queasy feeling. It was strangely similar to reading posts on Huffpo. That, and his inability to string several sentences together in a post without spelling or grammar problems, even though he supposedly was a “professional” journalist.

    I have mostly been a daily lurker here for many years. Lee just did not appear to have the sufficient ethical capacity for this site.

    Leonardo DaFinchi (29a763)

  680. Poor story, killed by the death of a thousand hits.

    Cmate (525edc)

  681. I spoke to Patterico a few hours ago and he was arguing adamantly for this theory, with no evidence whatsoever. It’s what he believes.

    See? There you go.

    How many problems are there with this?

    Arguing for a theory does not mean I believe it. Refusing to listen to a person’s evidence does not mean the person has “no evidence whatsoever.” Talking about private conversations without permission is never great; doing so and getting them wrong is worse; doing so and getting them wrong in an environment when threats have been made and law enforcement is involved is reckless.

    I can’t talk to Lee Stranahan again until all this is sorted out. Until then, as I have said, if he makes a claim that I said something, do not assume his claim to be true.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  682. The most mysterious thing to me is why Patrick wants this thread to reach 1,000 comments. He normally goes for quality, not mere quantity. Regardless, I’m happy to help out.

    The answer is simple: we’re getting closer!

    I’ll take the quality too.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  683. Mrs. P. says I haven’t explained it well enough.

    If it reaches 1000 comments, I can say: hey, look at that! A thread with 1000 comments!

    Patterico (f724ca)

  684. I suspect perhaps the drive to be the first to solve the great mystery and have the feather in his cap might be a strong motivating factor.

    Unfortunately, this can cause writers/reporters to become sloppy, and play fast and loose with necessary rules for maintaining integrity.

    Eventually if the need to have the recognition become so great, small compromises make themselves known. And worse.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  685. And some Scooby Snacks. Lots of Scooby Snacks.

    Scooby-Doo (b29599)

  686. One thing I don’t want to have happen is for this to turn into the “pile on Lee” thread. I still want to like him and I don’t want to burn bridges.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  687. #687 Patterico –

    OK.

    BTW, I get a feeling that Lee is sleep deprived (or, more accurately, looking at times of posts and so on, I’m not sure when he’s sleeping). No one thinks clearly in that condition.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  688. Have I missed a step? I was skimming the comments since I signed off yesterday evening, and I didn’t see anything explaining “Dan Wolfe” (and I will not type “Worf” any more).

    Has that discussion point been set aside as not productive?

    Dianna (f12db5)

  689. Someone smarter than me, please explain why this is not possible:

    Patrick and Lee’s rift is actually a carefully planned maneuver to expose the true conspiracy.

    *Lee, breaking off with Patrick, will be able to infiltrate circles closed off to our esteemed host.

    *Lee will secretly relay information to Patrick, and they will co-author a damning post exposing the machinations.

    *The post will be published here, on Lee’s site, and on Breitbart’s site, because this has been a Breitbart investigation from the beginning.

    STUNNERS: Preston will be revealed as starchild111; Pinch Sulzberger as Betty, and Veronica as Eric Boehlert.

    The aim of the conspiracy was to entice as many conservative politicians as possible into compromising relationships with transvestite, transsexual Transylvanians. They also tried to get the Koch Bros. with a superspy clone of Ayn Rand.

    Instead, a lot of lefty politicians took the bait. (The expose will name names). Soros is mad and won’t write any more checks for these stings by Media Matters.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (62e76d)

  690. Since I have family in the Los Angeles attorney world, albeit not in the criminal side of the business, and used to live there, I have been following Patterico’s blog quietly for some time now. Always interesting; often controversial. Thanks for taking the trouble to maintain it!

    No Mutant Enemy (6e23c7)

  691. Patterico @#693,

    I was not attempting to pile on Lee w/#691, but rather was making a larger observation about basic human nature, its weaknesses, and certain temptation. All of us are susceptible, all of us stumble, and all of us have to figure out how to get back up when those times happen. My best wishes for Lee.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  692. I’ve been a regular reader and sporadic commenter for many years. I was pleased to see Lee begin posting here, as I think he brings a useful and interesting perspective.

    I’ve followed the Weiner story since it broke, and have read most of the posts and comments. It’s mind blowing and interesting and puzzling and fun.

    Every time I think I might have something to offer, I realize that someone else has made the point better than I could, and I refrain.

    And in this current contretemps between Lee and Pat, well, neither needs me to jump in and be a white knight. Pat has his reasons and he’s the boss around here. So, there’s really no reason for me to comment on that either.

    Then I think, how does this attitude get us to 1000 comments on this thread? It doesn’t.

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  693. I have no quality to add, so I’ll just add quantity. I read daily, but comment (very) rarely.

    Darin H (07889f)

  694. Patterico, is it true that you got the information for your story on “Ethel” from John Reid?

    Secondly, if this is true, shouldn’t you have disclosed this?

    Thirdly, again, if true, doesn’t that mean when you said that you were not being used by John Reid to disseminate information, that you were not being truthful?

    1. I am not going to say where I got anything from anyone. Where did you get the idea that your assertion #1 was true?

    2. The information I published about Ethel was based on publicly available information.

    3. Clearly JohnReid9 has used this site to disseminate information. Have I ever claimed otherwise? He/she/they sent me a bunch of information; I stated about 1000 times that I don’t vouch for it but it’s news whether it’s genuine or coming from a sock puppet; and then I published it. What I deny is that I ever vouched for anything he said.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  695. And just where is GennetteC of late? She being the one out of all of us who most wants to find out who is behind the socks. Curious time to disappear, hmmm?

    Tutu (54ce64)

  696. A cold slice of watermelon has long been a Fourth of July holiday staple. But according to recent studies, the juicy fruit may be better suited for Valentine’s Day. That’s because scientists say watermelon has ingredients that deliver Viagra-like effects to the body’s blood vessels and may even increase libido.*

    science yay

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  697. A cold slice of watermelon has long been a Fourth of July holiday staple. But according to recent studies, the juicy fruit may be better suited for Valentine’s Day. That’s because scientists say watermelon has ingredients that deliver little blue pill-like effects to the body’s blood vessels and may even increase libido.*

    science yay

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  698. I vouch that Patterico never vouched for anything that Lee Stranahan vouches is false. 299 to go!

    starboardhelm (e93080)

  699. “I spoke to Patterico a few hours ago and he was arguing adamantly for this theory, with no evidence whatsoever. It’s what he believes.”

    I am patiently awaiting the evidence on the spurned lover/sexter theory, which I am reliably informed is not at all bizarre, but in the interim, I do like the Boston song “More Than A Feeling.”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  700. Hopefully, GenetteC is off doing something nice and completely non-Weinergate related for her Fourth of July weekend.

    Or better yet, studying.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  701. “Ethel” was publically exposed, re Weiner, on May 30, I believe. She wasn’t ID’d as “Ethel” at that time, that “nom” came later, but ….. A quick look at her facebook, given other info that came to light, …..

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  702. If eating a slice of watermelon causes an erection lasting more than four hours…

    Tutu (54ce64)

  703. Eating too much watermelon has a laxative effect as well. For what that’s worth.

    Simon Jester (0f751a)

  704. And in this current contretemps between Lee and Pat

    I don’t want it to be a “contretemps.” I really don’t.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  705. I am patiently awaiting the evidence on the spurned lover/sexter theory, which I am reliably informed is not at all bizarre, but in the interim, I do like the Boston song “More Than A Feeling.”

    Comment by daleyrocks

    Indeed – it’s got at least some plausibility, but I’m not seeing solid evidence, either.

    Aside from the particularly horrible Steely Dan video, I’ve liked most of the Weinergate music. I don’t believe I’d heard “Christine” since I stopped listening to alternative radio back in the 90′s some time.

    One more comment to the 1,000 total!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  706. Er, “towards” the 1,000 total.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  707. I’m hoping for that double-punk fake fight theory.

    That would be too much fun, a surprise pony, champagne spray and confetti everywhere at the denouement.

    When everything is all over, pretend that’s what happened, I insist. I will be your willing dupe. We can invite Tommy to report on it.

    SarahW (af7312)

  708. Stranahan’s cat favors dance music I see.

    SarahW (af7312)

  709. Mr. Feets – How about eating some Official Fish of Patterico’s Pontifications, the tasty sammin which comes in number of different varieties pleasing to the palate, in honor of our humble nation’s founding tomorrow?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  710. “Sooner or later, whether consciously or subconsciously, a man will always bare his true character.”

    Anitabusch (a025dd)

  711. I spent many a day here a while back. Never once have I even thought that Pat was inclined to be unfair or that he would ban someone for presenting an opposing viewpoint.

    He is among the best and the brightest on the blogosphere.

    This other character I don’t know much about. I find Pat trustworthy and a very solid critical thinker.

    This other character, I don’t know much about.

    Pat has a proven track record on a number of issues, a very stable hand on the rudder of his opinions, does not leap to conclusions and usually carefully crafts his point of view.

    This other character, I don’t know much about.

    Pat has shown he has enormous character. Therefore, I stand behind him completely from a guy with an amount of character…I don’t need to know much more.

    cfbleachers (fb9900)

  712. Is this why we came down from the trees?

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  713. Patterico, I don’t think you know the definition of “uncritical”. Hint: it does not mean “supportive”.

    He criticized me for allowing JohnReid9 INTO COMMENTS without calling him a liar.

    That would be like if I allowed a leftist on here to praise Obama, and someone said I had provided an “uncritical” platform for someone to support Obama without challenging them whatsoever.

    I have no duty to challenge commenters, including those who are at the center of a story, and whose words are of great interest to many people. If I wish to invite them on, and let the COMMENTERS be critical, I have every right to do that without having someone imply I am agreeing with that person.

    I never vouched for JohnReid9, but in giving Lee a platform here, I could be seen as vouching for him generally. When I saw him misrepresenting my position, I decided I could no longer give him that position, where someone could claim I was vouching in some sense for what he was saying — including about me.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  714. Stranahan’s cat favors dance music I see.

    Comment by SarahW — 7/3/2011

    Does that mean we’ll get “All that she Wants (is another baby)”? I hope so! It’s got a great beat.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  715. Mr. Feets – You could whip yourself up a nice, cold, healthy, sammin shake, uses the whole fish, no wasted parts. I saw Mr. Dan Ackroyd demonstrate this wif a bass in the 1970s. Looked delicious.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  716. Keep fighting the good fight, Patrick.

    Anitabusch (a025dd)

  717. cfbleachers – It’s nice to see you back here. I was out of town when you returned.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  718. Is this why we came down from the trees?

    Comment by Machinist

    No, that was so we could invent pedicures with parrafin and hot basalt massages.

    Or maybe it was barbeque.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  719. ___________________________________________

    Incidentally, I have not “banned” him but simply disabled his account to “no role on this blog.”

    I hope Lee is brought back here. It’s always interesting seeing POVs from various angles, although I am puzzled why people after a certain age (say, around 30 to 40) remain tied to a philosophy they probably favored in their younger years.

    As for reaching 1,000 posts, whoever designed this forum interface needs to have their eyeballs examined and then poked out. I don’t know of any other message board on the internet whose format lacks horizontal lines that separate one poster’s text from the other. It’s like looking at huge chunks of sentences that lack paragraph breaks.

    In regards to the players in Weinergate, I admit to being curious less about the specifics and details of such people, real or phony, than whether they were or are shills for the Democrats/left and the ex-Congressman. But to help this blog entry reach that 1,000 mark, here’s my contribution.

    Mark (411533)

  720. Patterico,

    Aren’t you supposed to tell us all what to think???

    Letting us hear other points of view is so tiring and dangerous.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  721. Doing my part to get to 1,000 …

    IMO Patterico’s John Reid posts have tried to develop new facts — not push an opinion regarding what’s true or what the facts are — and he has repeatedly said he can’t vouch for John Reid.

    I know Lee understands the difference between theories and facts because he made that distinction in this June 1, 2011, post he wrote early in the Weinergate story:

    A new possibility has come up that explains ALL the strange facts in this story…here’s the theory.

    1) Weiner didn’t send the photo – it was a frame-up
    2) Weiner is hiding something – and the photo is of him (he didn’t deny it today) – and that’s why he doesn’t want a law enforcement investigation OR he knows how sent it.

    Here’s a theory on the the photo.. – the photo could have been sent from a phone. (Not sent from a computer.)

    I am going out on a limb here and I’d like emphasize this is a THEORY – but one that explains a lot.l. If this happened, I believe the most logical person to have done it is @PatriotUSA76 –a person that we actually know almost nothing about, by the way. For example, I don’t know for sure that their name is Dan Wolfe or even their gender. Like Weiner, I think there’s been some strange behavior on their part as well.

    As I recall, Lee pushed this theory hard during the early days of Weinergate, but at least he seemed to realize his theory wasn’t the same as fact. What I don’t understand is why Lee can’t seem to make that distinction when it comes to Patterico’s discussions and posts as the post-Weinergate sockpuppet story has unfolded.

    I’m not saying this to pile on to Lee. Instead, I wish he would try harder to do what he did in the beginning of this story: Distinguish between what he thinks is true and what he can prove is true. Because, frankly, he’s been known to guess wrong.

    DRJ (fdd243)

  722. Dianna,
    Nobody gets near my feets with hot anything.

    I don’t like BBQ (but don’t tell my fellow Texans!!)

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  723. DRJ,
    Would you please email me at bradleyfikes (at) gmail (dot) com?

    I’ve been working on a Texas-related journalism/political post that has gotten lost in this kerfuffle. It’s got some timeliness.

    Thanks,
    Bradley

    (And another comment toward the 1,000 mark!)

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (62e76d)

  724. When Pattrico’s on the prod, he’s like a one-eyed cat peepin’ in a seafood store.

    ropelight (8ea8ac)

  725. ___________________________________________

    That’s because scientists say watermelon has ingredients that deliver little blue pill-like effects to the body’s blood vessels

    Definitely an appropriate tidbit in light of a thread about a guy like Weiner who apparently was obsessed with the size and condition of his package.

    Mark (411533)

  726. Comment by DRJ — 7/3/2011 @ 12:11 pm

    A great treat to see you here, Ma’am.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  727. “Is this why we came down from the trees?”

    Machinist – Have you been spying on me?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  728. Is this why we came down from the trees?

    Comment by Machinist — 7/3/2011 @ 12:06 pm

    What a piece of work is man

    SarahW (af7312)

  729. Another in a sad history of firsts for this blog over this whole pathetic saga

    Violating Pats privacy is a deal breaker regardless of your stance on issues privcy is universally regarded as an issue of trust

    oh well, bye Lee. You should apologize to Pat, hire a lawyer, and

    EricPWJohnson (2921b6)

  730. How did 135 more comments get posted while I was staring at TweetDeck? This is crazy.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  731. Patterico@710–

    I’d much rather have a denouement than a contretemps today. Perhaps some fromage and a glass of Bordeaux would help.

    elissa (fe7129)

  732. sorry hit send before I was finished

    hire a lawyer, and review with them all your legal exposure to reassure yourself you are fine, perhaps then you will be more at ease

    Also report any and all death threats to police immediately

    EricPWJohnson (2921b6)

  733. make that #712. darn numbers keep achangin’

    elissa (fe7129)

  734. Tutu,
    I’ve found GennetteC’s disappearance weird, especially given that her last comment was telling JR that she was going to email Nikki. Her supposed exit comment was hilarious, though. Credit where it is due.

    rogerthat (f5aad4)

  735. My previous comment should say

    @ 703 Tutu

    Sorry.

    rogerthat (f5aad4)

  736. I feel like I’ve gotten to the party late. We’ve almost got a full blown blog war going on. Almost that is.

    Why does everyone keep talking about “high stakes?” What are the stakes here?

    Someone further up mentioned what I’ve been wondering all along if Patterico was providing a venue of “rope” for many of the participants to go and try and “hang themselves” with. I never mentioned it before because it seemed to be working pretty well on both GC and JR.

    Johnny 5 is alive (5ccc5e)

  737. elissa@740,

    Excellent suggestion, and it inspired me. I don’t have any fromage or Bordeaux handy at the moment, but I do have a Charles Shaw Merlot that I’ve just uncorked.

    It helps pass the time while reading this thread and watching my NiMH batteries cycle in my smart charger.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (62e76d)

  738. I noticed “Paul” used the words, “might could” in a sentence . That combination is found in areas such as eastern Kentucky and somewhat in western Virginia.

    Meh (f72fb5)

  739. Does that mean we’ll get “All that she Wants (is another baby)”? I hope so! It’s got a great beat.

    Comment by Dianna — 7/3/2011 @ 12:06 pm

    Love that song. So here’s another excuse for a comment toward 1000.

    no one you know (136b86)

  740. Perhaps some fromage and a glass of Bordeaux would help.

    Comment by elissa

    We’ve got a nice little spread out, including a domestic camembert and a zippy little petite sirah. Lots of fruit and both red and white sangria, some mac salad, bbq’d pork, and green salad for the sit-down portion of the meal. We are certain this will refresh us and our neighbors.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  741. I was fond of one theory – that the manipulator of sock puppets had been involved in the threats, and a by-stander (JG in MA) had gotten involved by accident

    For what it’s worth, I’m still quite fond of that theory. And for those who alternatively think that JGMA is the lone sockpuppeeter, doesn’t it seem odd that the puppeteer seems to operate on west coast time ?

    For example, in the new bunch of captured starchild tweets Prudence Paine posted, the puppets are still tweeting at 3:52 AM EDT. Sure, it’s _possible_ that someone in Boston could stay up all night generating inane tweets. On the other hand could someone in MA have done the May 14th tweets about the Dodgers game ? While the Redsox were playing the Yankees ? That I find that hard to believe.

    piglet (1bb7dc)

  742. And another dance tune, in happyfeet’s honor (I know he likes the artists and this is a great song)

    (applicability to current situation only semi-intended)

    no one you know (136b86)

  743. “…some mac salad…”

    0.0

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  744. #749 – Whee!

    Dancing!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  745. Good points, piglet. I tend to agree.

    DRJ (fdd243)

  746. When you lay down w/ dogs …..

    Just sayin’

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  747. @744- rogerthat I still think she holds a lot of the keys to the puzzle. When her BS stopped working, she disappears.

    Tutu (54ce64)

  748. **separated comment to add to total count**

    BTW have liked Lee’s stuff since he’s come here and am happy to see Patterico not wanting this to turn into burnt bridges. I truly hope it can end in, as elissa put pretty well, a denouement instead.

    no one you know (136b86)

  749. It will all come to brawling and requests to lower volume

    SarahW (af7312)

  750. #751 – piglet

    For what it’s worth, I’m still quite fond of that theory. And for those who alternatively think that JGMA is the lone sockpuppeeter, doesn’t it seem odd that the puppeteer seems to operate on west coast time ?

    Indeed, and thank you! I’ve been wondering if I’d fallen off the roof (gone irrational) with that theory.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  751. #744 roger
    She still reads and pops up to fuss a to make a short fuss.

    Meh (f72fb5)

  752. It will all come to brawling and requests to lower volume

    Comment by SarahW

    Probably. Unless someone proclaims an open-flame-war thread. Though that doesn’t always work, either.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  753. Typing from phone and I can’t catch edit mistakes . Arghh

    Meh (f72fb5)

  754. Stolen from Stranahan’s cat

    SOCK PARTY! (Anthem)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MUAnfEaqug

    SarahW (af7312)

  755. Tears before bedtime!

    (More towards 1,000 comments)

    Dianna (f12db5)

  756. #748, Meh, “might could” can also be found in current use both in Oklahoma and among the State’s peripatetic brethren relocated to California’s San Joaquin Valley.

    ropelight (8ea8ac)

  757. summer solstice!

    here you click you see is beautiful!

    happy floating polish lanterns!

    Mr daley did you not hears????

    I am boycotting the tasty tasty sammins cause of America’s fascist and anti-science sammin policies

    all that’s about is Alaska’s corrupt representative Don Young preventing competitions – he’s a sick sick anti-American loserdouche

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  758. ________________________________________

    he’s like a one-eyed cat peepin’

    Speaking of one-eyed, here’s a fitting tribute to Anthony Weiner, symbolizing about all the seriousness and respect he deserves.

    BTW, the character of “son” or “Johnson,” referring to actor Clint Howard (aka Ron Howard’s brother), is a rarity in Hollywood: He’s a conservative.

    Mark (411533)

  759. 631 ∅

    Lee says he has law enforcement involved and being helpful but can’t say more about that yet. Don’t know what else, now that he’s cut confidences with Preston (a good thing!)

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  760. oooh piglet EXCELLENT catch!

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  761. 633. PatAz

    I took Lee’s frustration with the left’s positions on this story to be evidence of thinking, change, and generally positive. I’m not at all skeptical of it as it makes total sense. I think he’s a straight shooter & I disagree with him on lots of things, and agree on lots of others.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  762. #769 koam – Well, he was accused of making (or inspiring) threats. I’d want my name cleared PDQ.

    I still don’t quite understand what’s up with Ms. Preston.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  763. Rope, Did not know that speech pattern had spread . Lucky them. :D

    Meh (f72fb5)

  764. The whole situation is easy to understand: Karl Rove is behind it to totally discredit the Democratic Party.

    Cheney helped.

    roy in nipomo (bca582)

  765. Of course koam, you asked the one question that Lee could not answer. Amazing, that.

    Tutu (54ce64)

  766. That little Weiner dude thinks he’s got a big rod? He don’t know what big is!

    Tachyglossus aculeatus (62e76d)

  767. Not clicking that for anything!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  768. Not having paid attention to the extended version of the Wiener twitter story I can’t comment on it. I will say my money is with Patterico. Not because I am trying to win a Patterico poney or anything. Patterico is one of only a few sites I have the linked or read on a daily basis. The storys are alway well reasoned, insightful and painstakingly detailed. If only our ‘real’ news sites could have the same standards. There I did my part for the 1,000.

    deadserfs (bb89f9)

  769. Dianna@778,
    Relax, it’s not a David Ehrenstein-type link. But it is animal porn – specifically, monotreme porn. That’s the best kind!

    Tachyglossus aculeatus (62e76d)

  770. Now interrupting your regularly scheduled programming.

    FYI grilling wieners isn’t green.
    http://michellemalkin.com/2011/07/01/4th-of-july/

    Comedy gold

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  771. Is this the best representation of the tweet timeline?

    http://www.soundbitten.com/

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  772. @cfbleachers … couldn’t agree with you more about Patrick’s character. A man of high integrity and very fair.

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  773. “Mr daley did you not hears????”

    Mr. Feets – No I had not heard. Thanks for the heads up. Go with the bass shake instead.

    Damn Luddites!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  774. #781 – Ha!

    And the plum and ricotta tart is cooling, while I’ve set a bottle of muscat to chill.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  775. Is watermelon a racist fruit?

    PatAZ (efd43b)

  776. Happyfeet
    Spectacular! Thanks for sharing

    Meh (f72fb5)

  777. Bass-A-Matics are very reasonable these days.

    PatAZ (efd43b)

  778. Ok Dianna now you’re getting just mean.
    Torture me no more.

    Meh (f72fb5)

  779. Ok Dianna now you’re getting just mean.
    Torture me no more.

    Comment by Meh

    I sponsor a household of gustatory evil. If I weren’t watching my cholesterol, I’d be in a coma from eating by now.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  780. Dianna: Your meal sounds absolutely delicious, but is it approved by Michelle’s food police?

    PatAZ (efd43b)

  781. My contribution to a 1000 posts.

    I tend to think Lee’s theory is the most plausible. (omg! omg! some sock account thinks Lee might be right!)

    That doesn’t mean I think Patterico’s strategy is for not. I actually can’t wait to read Pat’s theory on all this when it’s laid out.

    I kind of thought they were just playing good cop/bad cop. Who knows? It will be fun to finally find out what really went down.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  782. Patterico, at comment 649, I asked this: Patterico, is it true that you got the information for your story on “Ethel” from John Reid?

    You asked where I got that idea from (I think, I’m lost with almost 800 comments to peruse). Well the idea came from Lee’s post where he says this:

    “A few days ago, Patterico told me that the source of that information. Sock puppet “John Reid” told Patterico about the Ethel Tumblr page and the “Large. In Charge” comments.”

    Woodshedder (44e97d)

  783. And the plum and ricotta tart is cooling…

    Dianna,

    Do you have proof of your FLOTUS pie waiver for this?

    Dana (4eca6e)

  784. Dianna: Your meal sounds absolutely delicious, but is it approved by Michelle’s food police?

    Comment by PatAZ

    No; in fact, it’s so incorrect that I’m thinking of writing it up and sending it to her office.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  785. If I eat Dianna’s tart in the Internet, but no one hears it. Does it exist?

    Meh (f72fb5)

  786. Do you have proof of your FLOTUS pie waiver for this?

    Comment by Dana

    If I had one, I’d ceremonially hand it over to one of the grill-meisters for fire-starting duty.

    Did I mention that there’s also gourmet ice cream? Two flavors: chocolate cherry and coconut.

    I can’t have ‘em, but they’re there for everyone else!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  787. You BAKED. A. PIE. In an OVEN. Shame on you
    crying/laughing
    My mom called yesterday when I was reading that and she said “So I’ve got hot dogs and sausages I made potato salad and baked beans and I think your grandmother baked a pie”
    “gustatory evil” indeed. It’s time to stop the madness.
    I’ve put my foot down and told my 92yr old grandmother that I cannot sponsor her pie in my home.

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  788. Remember the good old days? When Patrick was 24/7, fisking LAT? Wait! Did I say that? Why yes, I did.

    I condemn myself. It’s much, much better now, ie Patterico’s posts.

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  789. If I eat Dianna’s tart in the Internet, but no one hears it. Does it exist?

    Surely it must because my mouth is watering already!

    Dana (4eca6e)

  790. Faithful reader. I have never commented before. Just trying to help out and get to the magic number of 1000.

    Constance Bartl-Luthi (0f2e6e)

  791. I can’t believe I’ve mentioned baking tarts, and no one’s quoted Lewis Carroll yet!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  792. Whoo-hoo! We’ve broken 800!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  793. Enjoy your Independence Day watermelon without undue concern. It’s and equal opportunity fruit which originated in Southern Africa and quickly spread throughout the African continent, to China, Europe, and eventually to the New World. (Slave traders packed stores of local foods like black-eyed peas and okra with which the slaves were already familiar to help keep them calm on the long voyage across the Atlantic.)

    Incidentally, archaeologists found numerous watermelon seeds in King Tut’s tomb.

    ropelight (8ea8ac)

  794. All this pie talk reminds me of that Obama speech about pies. You would think I would have forgotten about that but it was so weird I still think about it sometimes.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  795. Question. Do we get another post after 1000. Pwease?

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  796. I am the original Alice, but I was attempting to be modest. Have some tea?

    Meh (f72fb5)

  797. 806 #
    yes He was beyond strange. I kept wandering if he wS speaking in code

    Meh (f72fb5)

  798. Lift and load. Lift and load. One for little Adolph. And one for the road.

    From a movie on WWII, very under appreciated. Not the movie, but the effort of those, without which, the War in Europe, may have taken a decided turn for the worse.

    Rememeber all our veterans on the Fourth.

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  799. @809

    I agree. It was another weirder than weird thing he has done that no one explains. I swear this guy does the weirdest stuff and no one says a word about it.

    Of course if Sarah Palin had…ah…you get the picture. =)

    Noodles (3681c4)

  800. Sadly, I have lost so much respect for Patterico in this. I am a relatively new reader and after this a former reader. The non weiner posts are well done and interesting. (Thank you Aaron Worthing, I hope you find a site that is worthy of you!) I do find the weiner story interesting but all the nonsense surrounding it has become ridiculous. I don’t for a second believe that Patterico isn’t sure of exactly what happened and who everybody is. Finishing the story and putting it all out there would result in a lot less attention for him now, wouldn’t it? All a lot of dramatic nonsense to get you all worked up. Go Go 1000 posts. Ick!

    Amanda Lynn (d3e2bd)

  801. Thank you, MDr. We always do, here.

    I read a suggestion that a reading of the Declaration is an appropriate start to dinner.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  802. The WeinerGate plumbers.

    Think about it.

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  803. We have seen entirely too much of Weiner’s plumbing.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  804. Coming in at 812 with a bullet, Amanda Lynn.

    Tutu (54ce64)

  805. I remember when Congressmen mailed out pictures of themselves shaking hands with the President and such rather than sending pictures of their genitals or of themselves naked in the House showers to young women.

    Does that date me?

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  806. “We have seen entirely too much of Weiner’s plumbing.”

    Hmmmmm. Most “plumbing” I’ve seen is a wee bit bigger. Now maybe if Swift is the standard, ie lilliputian …..

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  807. #802

    Faithful reader. I have never commented before. Just trying to help out and get to the magic number of 1000.

    Comment by Constance Bartl-Luthi — 7/3/2011 @ 1:39 pm

    Ditto. I must add, I’m totally lost on weinergate, and have lost many hours reading about tarts and anteaters!

    Amy Shulkusky (f1ee33)

  808. Having read both Stranahan and Patterico, I have two points to make, one long, one brief.

    Long point. It is very hard to take Stranahan seriously. He cannot present a narrative clearly; indeed he sometimes seems unable to write English. He (perhaps legitimately) withholds information, but then expects people to accept his only partially suppported arguments. He does not reason; he pronounces.

    I must admit that, based on what I have read so far, what seems most plausible is that JG MA is the one and only puppeteer. But I have not seen proof. Stranahan seems to believe that his failure to threaten JG MA proves that she is lying so desperately that she must be the arch-deceiver. As Patterico, however, points out, it is possible that someone did threaten her (just not Stranahan).

    It is also possible that JG MA may in fact have subjectively felt threatened by Stranahan. His recorded conversation with the JG CA was very odd. He bugs JG CA to communicate with him, says virtually nothing after communications are established, asks her if she wants to ask him anything, and then intimates that she must prove to him a negative and that she is guilty in his eyes until proven innocent. That conversation was odd enough to create an impression of threat that was not intended.

    JG MA’s subjective feeling that Stranahan threatened her might have been (probably was) wholly made up, but it might possibly have been true, particularly if she is indeed the puppeteer. I simply cannot assign any probative value to the conjunction of the two facts that (1) she alleged being threatened, and (2) Stranahan did not intentionally threaten her.

    Short point. Lay off Stranahan’s cat. I have never heard a cat do a better broadcast. If your cats are superior performers, let’s hear them.

    JeffM (d78fd0)

  809. All I know is, I used to read this blog religiously–checked it several times a day. After Lee Stranahan showed up, I just quit reading it. I’d check every great once in a while, but that was all. It was like the character of the blog changed, and not for the better. It sounds like the blog will be going back to the way it used to be–I like that, and will be checking it more often again.

    Barbara Oakley (a19e30)

  810. Okay, I need to finish getting the yard ready, etc. for tomorrow. When I get back I expect Lee or Patterico to have broken this case wide open!

    Noodles (3681c4)

  811. I am stepping out for some time with boyfriend and guests. And to evict the cat that’s hanging out in the kiddie pool I set up for my dogs; the dogs won’t go near it.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  812. “All I know is, I used to read this blog religiously–checked it several times a day. After Lee Stranahan showed up, I just quit reading it.”

    I was just as shocked, ie giving a leftist, keys to the car. Yet one more example that, the enemy of my enemy, is a friend, doesn’t always work out so well.

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  813. Just helping to get to 1000.

    Oh, an observation…Lee is still much too close to the left side of the political sphere to trust anything from him as fact. Of course, that’s just my opinion, because I never trust anything from anyone on the left. They lie with much too much ease.

    Susie Q (a6955c)

  814. 676 have blue

    just say what you mean. who has time to go figure out your riddle?

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  815. When did Weiner announce he had legal counsel, and a security firm to investigate? How many days before that announcement had he procured same? When did the sock puppets and threats start to escalate/grow?

    What we need – an investigation headed by Ben Veniste

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  816. This is getting a little in the weeds, maybe a new thread, re Volokhs’ analysis of Judge Graham,

    ian cormac (d380ce)

  817. Will a glittery ball drop at 1000?
    I sure hope so or else I’m going to feel like a fool with this top hat and noisemaker.

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  818. Speaking of cats, and to add my one-thousandth, let me pose a question. Is a single man with a cat a turnoff to potential dates, as in not very manly?

    My boss (a woman) says it is, but she is a dog-lover. I also love dogs, but am considering getting a cat because they are easier to leave alone when I am at work or traveling.

    I wonder what others think.

    norcal (c37272)

  819. @Amanda Lynn: Since you are relatively new reader, let me tell you that you are mistaken. Patrick is not one to jump to conclusions or head into anything with a pre-conceived notion. He gathers information and looks at it and let the evidence itself lead to the conclusion.

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  820. I’ve been trying (unsuccessfully) on Twitter to get someone to lay out for me a unifying theory of what’s going on here. My guess is that it’s just too complicated for that venue, so I thought I would try here. The closest I can come is the idea that this whole thing is masterminded and created by a single entity as a screenplay/performance art piece. Maybe that’s what Lee is proposing, although he never really comes out and says it. If so, who is the real person behind it all? And if this isn’t the best/most reasonable/most widely held theory, then what is.

    If nothing else, this will help get to 1000.

    PS – I admire Patterico for bringing Lee on. The idea clearly was that Lee was seeing things from a different perspective, but that he saw that the right wasn’t as nasty as the left. I believe Lee was correct (although I am guessing he doubts it now). In any case, this feels like one of those “It seemed like a good idea at the time” things. The issues that I (and I think Patterico as well) have with Lee have nothing to do with his political positions. Sometimes things just don’t work out the way we want them to.

    Jan (fd5949)

  821. Sometimes I get the impression that Stranahan is part of the very smokescreen is claims to be trying to cut through.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  822. Please cancel my subscription to Sports Illustrated.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  823. #824, MDr and #825, Suzie Q: My thoughts exactly from both of you. I felt at the beginning of the whole Weiner escapade, Lee seemed to want Weiner to be innocent and set up by his enemies so badly. Even after Weiner confessed, Lee still didn’t seem to be satisfied. Lee may be able to see bias from the left, but he is nowhere near changing sides.

    PatAZ (efd43b)

  824. Jan @832

    Maybe there ISN’T a grand unifying theory. Maybe we have a case of really different individuals doing different things for different reasons. Or maybe more than one person can use an account so maybe for some sock puppets, it isn’t just one person tweeting in that name. To assume anything at this point is the road to folly.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  825. 829 – @RepWeiner is arranging for the glittery ball(s).

    Jan (fd5949)

  826. 834 – Cancel your own damn subscription! (HT to William F. Buckley)

    Jan (fd5949)

  827. “Sometimes I get the impression that Stranahan is part of the very smokescreen is claims to be trying to cut through.”

    Which sparks, a completely unrelated, cross neuronal, contamination.

    All the original Journolistas were never identified. Who believes they haven’t resurrected themselves? Who are they? Any doubts they may have insinuated themselves into this very negative Dem story. To salvage what they can.

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  828. #830 norcal –

    I take to guys with pets. Or I used to, anyway. Cats are perfectly acceptable in a single guy in an apartment, and anything but unmanly.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  829. General feelings:

    I never knew who Stranahan was before the Weiner scandal led me from Ace’s site to Patterico. Stranahan does appear to have difficulty clearly explaining what he knows and why. That was my impression when he first declared certainty about JG (“Conjecture is over”). The proof was that he talked to her on the phone and he talked to her alleged professor. But the proof wasn’t enough to show it was not a hoaxer, especially after what happened with Tommy Christopher.

    In a recent post, Stranahan wrote: “Alicia Pain and John Reid have been working behind the scenes trying to get other people to reveal (alleged) information on Rep. Weiner and underage women.”

    Okay. Um, how does he know this? Or is it conjecture?

    I think most of Stranahan’s theories and conjectures are reasonable. But he does seem to go overboard and submit them as verified fact.

    Patterico’s theory could be totally off the wall but I have never taken his theories as his definitive conclusions. I thought giving JR a platform was a good idea. But it was clearly never an endorsement by Patterico.

    In my view Patterico is more Poirot and Stranahan more Scooby Doo. Patterico is more methodical and uncertain, testing his theories. Stranahan declares the identity of the monster based on gut feeling and a handful of facts (the problem is that there is often another rubber mask yet to be removed).

    Crispian (70c05e)

  830. Crosspatch 836 – I didn’t mean to suggest that there was just one. I’m trying to understand what Patterico, or Lee, or somebody else actually thinks happened. I’m not assuming anything. I do believe tho that some people have a picture in their mind of what transpired, by whom, and for what purpose, but nobody seems to want to lay it out for “peer review”. I don’t want anybody to put their reputation on the line. I’d just like to get an understanding of what they think the overall picture is based on what they know at this point.

    Jan (fd5949)

  831. Maybe you need a homicide detective to solve this.

    Sammy Finkelman (6f74ae)

  832. #832 – Somewhere in the early hundreds of this monster thread, I asked Patterico if we were talking about a Glenn Greenwald-style “fun on the internet” hoax (a sock puppet or two) or “Holy Blood, Holy Grail” scale hoax. I’d still like to know.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  833. You know, Weiner was blackmailed – in 2009. The New York almost flatly reported it then.

    Sammy Finkelman (6f74ae)

  834. Weiner was blackmailed? For what? Did an errant wiener pic show up in someone’s inbox?

    Mike Myers (0e06a9)

  835. Weiner was blackmailed? For what? Did an errant wiener pic show up in someone’s inbox?

    Comment by Mike Myers

    Ditto.

    And why would he not say, “Publish and be damned!”? He wasn’t married, then, and it would take more than some sexting by a single guy to make a serious scandal.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  836. “Maybe you need a homicide detective to solve this.”

    You’re a little too late with your request.

    Columbo RIP

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  837. Lee seems to be unable to distinguish between a theory and a fact. He is also apparently unable to distinguish between someone advancing a theory and claiming a fact as true.

    Absolutely true. I noticed this during his discussions with Ace. He’s got no sense of the difference between possibility and probability; thus, anything that is possible is regarded as probable depending upon utility in the moment.

    rdbrewer (f628a1)

  838. Anyone know if Weiner’s blackberry was confiscated while he is in rehab?

    PatAZ (efd43b)

  839. #840 Dianna

    Thank you for your response. I have a house rather than an apartment, but I’m assuming that wouldn’t change your answer about a single guy with a cat.

    norcal (c37272)

  840. rdbrewer, I have asked him questions, and I thought his responses indicated that he’d made up his mind.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  841. #851 norcal – Not at all.

    I’m a fanatic, which is why I could have dogs and cats while single. It’s hard. Single people usually stick to a cat, and I don’t blame them.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  842. Folks what you have here is two people who go about this in very different fashions. I am dismayed by Lee posting that article the other day about Pat putting JohnReid9 on this site. I never once felt pat was giving Reid a pass. In fact I go the feeling that Pat was giving US the chance to grill JohnReid9. Many of you asked some great questions. Now go back and look how many REALLY tough ones he did not answer. Also compare his writing style to others in this scenario, like Patriotusa76 and any other of the purported Sock Puppets. Plenty of tweets out there on scribed and such. As far as the feud. Not sure who pissed on whose cornflakes first but accepting the method of investigation should be the priority. I don’t think Pat feels Lee is right and up until now he has never said that. But Lee did Publicly.

    As for me. I find Lees analysis interesting. But much of what he does is supposition and in the world that Pat lives in supposition can get you hammered. Fact is what matters.

    I am a trained interviewer and without giving away too much I will say I knew EXACTLY what Patterico was doing letting JohnReid post freely.

    As far as Lee’s assumptions they too serve to challenge the reader to dig deeper. Lee is begging people to look into things.

    Everyone is a suspect until they can be rules out. That is done by questioning and evidence gathering. But without a subpoena we only have what we have on Twitter and these few pages that still talk about this story.

    Who got hurt?
    Who benefited?
    When did they give information?
    How did they know it?

    These are the questions I am trying to answer.

    What are yours?

    mikemadden59 (3cb7fd)

  843. Even someone not at all involved in journalism knows you don’t prove you cannot be trusted then wonder why people stop talking to you.

    StillConfused (786412)

  844. Hey Still do I know you?

    mikemadden59 (3cb7fd)

  845. Totally understand why Patterico gave the floor to JR9, don’t understand why that was a problem in anyones mind. I get Lee’s assertion that fake people are spreading lies behind the curtain and those lies should not be promulgated but Patterico lifted the curtain. Didn’t write the script and was clear he was “agnostic”
    I don’t know sometimes I think Lee confuses me lately more than anything in this entire drama. sorry?
    Just so I can be even more cheesy and theatrical
    “Me thinks thou doth protest too much”

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  846. #837 Jan. Shiver, Gag

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  847. Hey Still do I know you?

    Comment by mikemadden59

    My statement was a general one mikemadden59. I don’t know you.

    StillConfused (786412)

  848. I hope we get to 1,000 soon and Patrick publishes his magnum opus that explains everything Weiner.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (62e76d)

  849. Obsession is not just a perfume.

    Huey (ddf1a4)

  850. Isn’t Obsession a cologne? And what’s the difference?

    *Doing my bit for 1,000 comments!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  851. JeffG, LGF, and now Patterico. You will respect my authority!

    Boogity Boogity Boogity (b12543)

  852. Remember when this was just about a perv with a God-complex?

    StillConfused (786412)

  853. #851 norcal
    I have a dog however cats are not at all feminine for a single guy to have. Unless you have a lot.
    Frankly I think people who HATE cats are a little irrational. Although this attachment makes me question that.

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/getoverit.gif

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  854. 864 Yeah, good times.

    Sarahw (af7312)

  855. I think cats are marvels of nature, but they don’t really serve the kind of functional and companionship role that a dog can. My dog guards my house. She protects my home and family.

    Can she gracefully fall to her feet? No. Cats are amazing. But boy do I wonder how a person could choose a cat over a dog for a pet, unless they don’t really want the work of a pet.

    Plus dogs don’t use the facilities in your home unless you are a failed owner.

    Talking about private conversations without permission is never great; doing so and getting them wrong is worse; doing so and getting them wrong in an environment when threats have been made and law enforcement is involved is reckless.

    Admittedly, my episode was minor, but the similarity is impossible to miss.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  856. I prefer drakkar noir. Whatever happened to Canoe? As far as obsession goes, I’ve read shrink babble explaining that Nobama is a classic narcissist. Cracks me up so many Jewish people here in Palm Beach co. continue to think he is god and weiner’s internet play was his own private life. But of course the evil Bushitler remains the cause of all our present woes because Obama needs more time. One twat even insists we should re-elect duh won in 2016. God save us from idiotic bastard’s children assclowns.

    Calypso Louie Farrakhan (40c5f4)

  857. @Crispian #841 … “In my view Patterico is more Poirot and Stranahan more Scooby Doo.”

    Great analogy. I have felt the same way.

    Anitabusch (a025dd)

  858. Oh yes, it is just lovely to listen to some little yapping mutt carry on at all hours of day and night incessantly barking. That said, just watched episode of Sleeper Cell wherein dirtbag Muslim terroists kills a bunch of dogs while testing some deadly gas phosgene. He says next time we test it on two-legged creatures. Would love to see it used on terrorists. can some libtard here tell me why I should have any sympathy for the religion of peace or the permanent widdle refugees Palistineans? Israel could nuke Iran’s nuke facilities or even Mecca and I would say good on them. Of course the UN and Euroweenies would be upset but why should I care?

    Calypso Louie Farrakhan (40c5f4)

  859. Anita, You’re strong and brave, and I’m glad to see you’re still standin’ up and talkin’ back.

    ropelight (8ea8ac)

  860. While we’re on the road to 1,000 comments, here’s a PSA for those of us in California:

    Some CA retailers still charging repealed sales tax
    . . .On 1 July (the date the lower rate became effective), my son Steve and family went to lunch at “On the Border,” a nationwide restaurant chain with about 15 locations in CA. When the bill arrived, it included the outdated 8.75% San Diego sales tax. My son (at spouse Ingrid’s insistence) informed the manager of the change. The manager quickly contacted the regional office, and apparently this resulted in the entire chain becoming aware of the update. Steve scored a free meal out of it, and the restaurant was definitely pleased he brought it to their attention.

    In the only retail transaction I made on 1 July, I found that I had to correct an auto shop bill that included the wrong 8.75% sales tax. The garage was an independent — not a chain. As always, caveat emptor. . .

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (62e76d)

  861. Bradley have you sent your story to Aaron, too? Unfortunately, DRJ doesn’t blog here (Though I’m sure she could if she wanted… and I know I’d love to read her stuff).

    Dustin (b7410e)

  862. I hope we get to 1,000 soon and Patrick publishes his magnum opus that explains everything Weiner.

    Comment by Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. — 7/3/2011 @ 3:37 pm

    Pat: When we hit 1,000 will you post the final, comprehensive explanation of the Weinergate sockpuppet universe?

    slp (347e33)

  863. Now Patterico feuds with Jeff Goldstein, Radley Balko, and Lee Stranahan. At some point Patterico should think whether the problem is with all of these other people or himself.

    I knew it wouldn’t last between him and Stranahan. Patterico is as thin skinned as they come…he can’t take any criticism no matter how light. And despite him talking a good game about being civil, he still flings out unprovoked attacks against those like Balko and Goldstein.

    With all the talk of bannings and sock puppets, this place reads more like 4chan than a respectable conservative blog. Just Sayin.

    JustinSayin (9eb0fa)

  864. “You know, Weiner was blackmailed – in 2009. The New York almost flatly reported it then.”

    Mike “The Big Nanny” Bloomberg apparently threatened to expose what a major horndog Weiner was if he threw his hat in the mayoral race. I believe the Post wrote about it.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  865. Dustin,
    DRJ emailed me immediately afterwards, and it’s in her capable hands. My issue isn’t as huge as Weinergate, but it’s still worth some attention, I think. I had emailed Patterico and Aaron earlier, but Weinergate has pre-empted everything else with their blog time.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (62e76d)

  866. JustinSayin – That.Is.Exactly.What.Happened.

    Outlaw!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  867. Patterico provided a forum for Lee JohnReid to say what he wanted to say and present what evidence he wanted to present.

    Patterico has been pretty scrupulous to say that he didn’t necessarily agree with what Lee JohnReid had to say, nor that he endorsed what Lee JohnReid said as true.

    It seems to me that if Patterico, after making honest attempts put aside any biases and disagreements with what Lee JohnReid said on his blog, feels that he is being misrepresented by Lee JohnReid, he has every right to stop allowing Lee JohnReid access to post information on his blog.

    Just a thought.

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  868. JustinSayin:Did someone make you come here to read? JustAskin

    PatAZ (efd43b)

  869. When we get to posting 999, nobody make a post. Lets just let it hang there for a while.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  870. When is JohnReid9 going to show up and do a video chat with Patterico?

    He answered some questions in comments for several days and then disappeared.

    He needs to keep his promise to Pat and do the video chat.

    slp (347e33)

  871. crosspatch,
    You’re just trying to set up a prisoners dilemma, aren’t you?

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  872. #880 crosspatch
    Sockkk!

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  873. re: comment 871:

    Here’s a very handy document for determing your updated local tax rate:

    http://www.boe.ca.gov/pdf/pub71.pdf

    h2u (0025d1)

  874. It seems to me that if Patterico, after making honest attempts put aside any biases and disagreements with what Lee JohnReid said on his blog, feels that he is being misrepresented by Lee JohnReid, he has every right to stop allowing Lee JohnReid access to post information on his blog.

    I do.

    You might ask yourself: when is the last time JohnReid9 posted on this blog? When is the last time I stated that JohnReid9 had misrepresented my private communications with him? These are questions you might want to ask yourself.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  875. With all the talk of bannings and sock puppets, this place reads more like 4chan than a respectable conservative blog. Just Sayin.

    Comment by JustinSayin

    And as a concerned Christian conservative, you just had to speak up?

    Dianna (f12db5)

  876. You might ask yourself: when is the last time JohnReid9 posted on this blog? When is the last time I stated that JohnReid9 had misrepresented my private communications with him? These are questions you might want to ask yourself.

    Funny you should say this. I was sitting here wondering if JohnReid9 was in moderation or something….

    Asking myself isn’t working; there’s only a handful of people who could answer this question.

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  877. #874, JustinSayin, Patterico’s not all that thin skinned. He takes his share of hard knocks here, some on target and some wide of the mark, and he doesn’t pull rank.

    But, yes, he can also be prickly at times. On balance though, for the most part, he’s hard working, fair, and patient.

    Check out the most recent Sockpuppet Friday post, there are several shots aimed directly at him.

    ropelight (8ea8ac)

  878. On the contrary, Dustin, cats CAN use the facilities indoors, and that is a distinct advantage, even when they forget to flush.

    What’s the saying? Dogs have owners, cats have staff. I guess that is true, but hey, free mice.

    Sarahw (af7312)

  879. “I know SPQR, but Lee has torpedoed all credibility with me. You’re kinder than I am in this.

    Comment by Stashiu3 — 7/3/2011 @ 9:33 am

    I’m sure its a phase that I’ll grow out of in a minute or two, returning to my usual asshole self … and sure enough, I just did.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  880. Interesting that JustinSayin lumps Jeff, Lee, and Radly in the same group. I don’t think Patterico ever said such a thing.

    Patterico has been very tolerant of disagreement on his blog for years, but he debates in a principled manner and he does take exception to his positions and arguments being misstated and distorted and to private discussions being published without permission and in many cases without much attention to accuracy. Is that what JustinSayin is saying these people have in common?

    I don’t think that reflects badly on Patterico.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  881. Cats rule!!

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  882. I would not be surprised if Lee or others have asked people to comment on here against Patrick.

    Those of us who know Patrick, know better. The rest is just an ill attempt at defamation of character by people who have an agenda … and very transparent.

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  883. I think we should start taking bets on what time 1000 will appear. (although I suppose someone could take the fun out of it and type “I Win” a hundred times.
    I’m taking 6:59 pm

    StillConfused (786412)

  884. norcal 830, 851

    IMO a man who does what he wants despite what “people” will think is most attractive. Less attractive is thinking that we women all think alike. ;) Get a cat if that’s what fits your lifestyle best. If you lose out on a date because of it … well, aren’t likely missing out on much.

    Dustin, 867 Agreed.. although I had a 120 lb rottweiler who could (until I caught her) jump into the kitchen sink to perch in the window with the grace of a cat. Straight up– without a running start.

    eman (0e848b)

  885. This site is starting to remind me of LGF, unfortunately.

    oldirishpig (e7adde)

  886. This site is starting to remind me of LGF, unfortunately.

    Comment by oldirishpig — 7/3/2011 @ 4:46 pm

    When your comment disappears, I’ll believe you.

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  887. Machinist – JustinSayin mentions Patterico and JG have gotten in spats. JG has pissed everybody off over the years. For some reason JustinSayin feels this reflects more on Patterico.

    I know, I know, Intentionalism!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  888. Comment by Pious Agnostic — 7/3/2011 @ 4:49 pm

    Good point! Nicely put.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  889. This might be good time for me to bring up my new product line.
    THE SOCKPUPPET 2000! ©
    It’s truly the most innovative product that you simply must HAVE! If you call now for just 19.95$ plus s/h
    You too can own your very own SOCKPUPPET 2000! ©
    The SOCKPUPPET 2000 © is 100% GREEN! it eats garbage! It spews garbage! All for the low, low cost of just 19.95$ Plus s/h
    Call now for very own ECO FRIENDLY SOCKPUPPET 2000!

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  890. “But, yes, he can also be prickly at times. ”

    Just don’t make him have to repeat himself.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  891. 901?

    slp (347e33)

  892. daleyrocks,
    The people he mentions tend top take disagreement as attacks and fly off the handle. I would resent being lumped with some of those.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  893. I meant to be 901 when I wrote “901?”

    Will this post be 902 or a later post?

    slp (347e33)

  894. 902 – I have see a few “don’t make me have to repeat myself” comments here and on twitter. I thought it was interesting at the time.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  895. Approximately 93 comments to go! Excelsior!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  896. Millenarianism can be fun!

    Mokum (20a906)

  897. Boxers or briefs?

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  898. Millenarianism can be fun!

    Comment by Mokum

    Back in high school, I started a great fight by laying out the argument for post-tribulationism, nearly provoking a fist-fight between two of the youth.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  899. Here’s another 0.1%

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  900. Speaking of the various tribulationisms, what if that idea was planted on purpose so we won’t be all that afraid when some alien race comes to collect us for food? Lee, thoughts?

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  901. Ok, gonna take the kids to the pool. Have fun!

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  902. @ #900

    Will there be a special om Sockpuppet Friday?

    Bill M (25d866)

  903. I had to look it up. Apparently, “post-tribulationism” is the belief that after this thread reaches 1000 comments, there will be a period when loyal Patterico readers will remain, wandering about aimlessly, until such time when another post is, uh, posted.

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  904. Tempus fugit.

    roy in nipomo (bca582)

  905. EDF scares children and small animals.

    StillConfused (786412)

  906. Pretty accurate, Pious Agnostic!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  907. “When your comment disappears, I’ll believe you.

    Comment by Pious Agnostic — 7/3/2011 @ 4:49 pm”

    It isn’t so much a case of you believing me, because I do feel that way, but more a question of your agreement, wouldn’t you say? But once the disappearances start (not saying they will, mind you), it will be too late, lol.

    Still, I take your point. Well said.

    oldirishpig (e7adde)

  908. SOCKPUPPET FRIDAYS! © Why didn’t I think of that!

    Blackburnsghost (2ffb0c)

  909. What’s the topic again?

    Mrs. Ed (a91fe8)

  910. it’s “smoked sausage”…

    ColonelHaiku (822dce)

  911. 820. JeffM

    Excellent points about how JG MA may have perceived Lee interaction.

    I asked Lee to list everything he said to JG MA and he hasn’t responded. I don’t know if he saw my question or not.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  912. nuttin’ from nuttin’
    but Barry the Destroyer
    he just gotta go

    ColonelHaiku (822dce)

  913. this just in to desk
    weiner caught snortin’ some tweet
    off his blackberry

    ColonelHaiku (822dce)

  914. Ponder the meaning of post No.925

    Cmate (525edc)

  915. #926 – I am awestruck.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  916. I’m not going to go back and re-read all 900+ comments.

    Did we decide that Patterico’s theories, (you remember, the topic of this post) were plausible and/or realistic?

    Patterico said in UPDATE X2 that he was feeling better “with each passing second.” A lot of seconds have passed since then. I note, also, that good feelings can be generated by having a disturbing theory disproved, so don’t assume, as some have done, that this means he really likes these theories.

    I seem to recall that #1 was generally not supported, while #2 was generally rebutted with “meh.”

    Right? Wrong? Indifferent?

    Either way, closer to our true goal.

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  917. colonel’s lost brain cells
    come back to haunt him BIGTIME
    but he got rhythm

    ColonelHaiku (822dce)

  918. PA,
    Patterico wrote: “I’m feeling better about the theory with each passing second.” (emphasis added)

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (62e76d)

  919. Come on 1000…

    (Just trying to help)

    RB (382560)

  920. Patterico’s theories

    1. False

    2. True

    3. True

    slp (347e33)

  921. On the other hand, the evidence to date supports the following answers:

    1. False

    2. False

    3. False

    slp (347e33)

  922. #930 Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R.

    Ah, good point. I guess that an average person would interpret that to mean that the course of the discussion made him more inclined to think the theory sound.

    I’m hardly an expert of Intentionalism (what I know I’ve learned here) but I know that an average person’s interpretation is a powerful argument, absent any other way of determining what an author intended.

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  923. Pious Agnostic,

    That’s what I think as well. It may also be a goad to those who think the theory wrong to speak up. He’s carefully withheld an ex patterica pronouncement on the theory’s validity.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (62e76d)

  924. ex patterica

    LOVE it! :)

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  925. Is this the ONT?

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  926. Very clever, Bradley, and I think your theory may be right, too.

    On another topic, did John Reid ever explain how Jennifer George’s Twitter account changed into Nikki Reid’s? I’ve read so much stuff that I can’t remember if that’s been answered.

    DRJ (fdd243)

  927. Dragging this thread across the 1000 comment line is like going to Branson. It isn’t all that interesting or enlightening, but when it’s over, you can say you did it once.

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  928. #938 – I cannot recall, either, and it’s a good question.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  929. Patterico=Patrick Frey=Idiot Prosecutor

    Once this post is deleted, it will screw up whoever gets Post 1000!!

    mr mister (3eb1d0)

  930. When you’re transitioning from dyed in the wool “Crooks & Liars is teh bomb” to neo-conservative (a la neo-neocon), there are bound to be stumbles along the way, and a great many growing pains. It is possible Stranahan stumbled painfully.

    But I have also found times where I felt the need to fire my 16-inch main battery at Patterico. (What can I say? I’m a former member of the Teufel Hunden.)

    John Hitchcock (9e8ad9)

  931. Oh, and mr mister is just a moron sock for some other moron who has been here before and got banned for being a moron.

    John Hitchcock (9e8ad9)

  932. Mr. Mister … assassinate character much? And anonymously, too. Means you have an agenda to defame. What a despicable act.

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  933. This comment thread is running on fumes now. It’s going to be an empty victory for Patterico!

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  934. Take
    These Broken Wings
    And Learn To Lie Again
    Learn to Live Unfree.

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  935. Throw us a bone so we can go for 2K!

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  936. Throw us a bone so we can go for 2K!

    Comment by CausticConservative

    Bite your tongue! Or rap your own knuckles with a pencil!

    I can blather with the best, but that’s too much to ask.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  937. When we get to 1,000 do we get Teh Rapture or Teh Zombie Apocalypse?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  938. There is a story that I hate.
    It is this thing called “Weinergate.”
    We always knew he was a loser.
    Why must he dominate my Google newser?
    Wouldn’t want to speculate*
    But maybe he’s a boozer.*

    http://hotair.com/archives/2011/06/02/a-poem-my-take-on-weinergate/

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  939. Four dozen doughnuts.

    Imagine four boxes of doughnuts, somebody brought them into the office.

    Everybody takes one. They, they are all gone.

    That’s how many comments we have left. Take one.

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  940. Sock puppets and threats,
    Pictures we don’t want to see,
    A dirty business.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  941. Like some arguments,
    Those doughnuts have holes in them.
    And they are messy.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  942. A cinnamon roll,
    Is better than two doughnuts,
    But counts only once.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  943. Quantity from me,
    Quality from other folks,
    With more agile minds.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  944. I think we all should understand that there is a or several criminal forces at work here … People have gotten threatened for looking into a news story.

    I experienced this myself first-hand.

    The criminal/s behind these threats is/are domestic terrorists and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

    These tactics are not unfamiliar. They are similar to what “Sineater” pi Anthony Pellicano (who worked to discredit Gennifer Flowers and Monica Lewinsky for Bill and Hillary Clinton) worked — threaten and defame.

    FACTS: Lesbian rumors surfaced in Sept. 2007 about Huma and Hillary and the very next month, the NY Post posted a gossip item about Huma’s romantic interest in Anthony Weiner. Bill Clinton officiated at their wedding.

    Pellicano was thrown in prison for 15 years. I can only hope whomever is behind these criminal threats ends up with a similar fate.

    They are the scum of the Earth.

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  945. It’s late for me, so this’ll be my last until tomorrow.

    Take it on home, Machinist!

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  946. Pious Agnostic,
    Good night and sweet dreams to you,
    We will carry on.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  947. Comment by Anita Busch — 7/3/2011 @ 6:45 pm

    I could not agree more, but it will be hard to make progress with this. The left is too dependent on it as a tactic.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  948. Neal Rauhauser’s Linked-In profile says “Hitman for the Lesbian Mafia” underneath his name.

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  949. @Machinist — Politics is a dirty business and has been throughout history, but don’t kid yourself. It goes on on BOTH sides. Remember Watergate?

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  950. Pellicano was thrown in prison for 15 years. I can only hope whomever is behind these criminal threats ends up with a similar fate.

    They are the scum of the Earth.

    Agreed. But let’s hope they’re not thrown in a California prison, or “15 years” might well turn into 90 days, measured as 5 8-hour days a week, making a calendar week turn into 4 weeks and a day of prison time.

    John Hitchcock (9e8ad9)

  951. Gratuitious shot at post 1000!

    Kaisersoze (c86eb0)

  952. On another topic, did John Reid ever explain how Jennifer George’s Twitter account changed into Nikki Reid’s?
    Comment by DRJ — 7/3/2011 @ 6:10 pm

    That is one of gaping holes in JohnReid9′s story. As Lee demonstrated, it was simple for Jennifer George to change the name on the account from starchild 111 to Nikki Reid. His demonstration is on his site.

    http://leestranahan.com/

    slp (347e33)

  953. This still going on? Perhaps Patterico play the Palin Card; that’s good for at least 40 PDS-inspired comments.

    Hope you get to 1K, seriously.

    Simon Jester (2df2ee)

  954. Lee Stranahan has a new post up saying he will stop commenting on Weinergate, as it is in the hands of law enforcement. I am in total agreement, as I say here.

    This is still the relevant comment thread and will remain so.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  955. You guys are lagging, my post 964 should have been 1000.

    A couple of random thoughts –

    I like Lee but he lost me when he posted that we had all “gone off the rails on the crazy train” by “pretending” JReid was real.

    On the big picture, I still think the story is coordination by Weiner and his staff to cover things up and we still have some big trees that shouldn’t be missed for this forest –

    1 – Gennette was involved and was frantically trying to gather information here.

    2 – The blizzard of sockpuppetry by the various players

    3 – The appearance of Dem Operative Neil, who could conceivably be exactly the type of guy a Dem congressman would bring in for sub rosa work and then deny knowing later.

    Kaisersoze (c86eb0)

  956. Lee has stopped talking publicly but I’ll be on TMZ tomorrow. Stay tuned, lots of news to come!

    Strahahan's Cat (c86eb0)

  957. That Jennifer George in Massachusetts created Nikki Reid, JohnReid9, Marinela Alicea, Mark Alicea, PatriotUSA76,and Alicia Pain is more likely scenario than starchild111 was hacked and taken over by someone else.

    slp (347e33)

  958. I like the way you think KaiserSose.

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  959. Alicia Pain is not necessarily in the same category as the rest.

    I mean nobody is NECESSARILY in the same category, but she especially is not.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  960. 951.When we get to 1,000 do we get Teh Rapture or Teh Zombie Apocalypse?

    Oooh, tough choice. Canz I haz both please?!?

    Hopefully, Pat will have the updated post he has been hinting at.

    Bill M (25d866)

  961. “It’s in the hands of law enforcement at this point.”

    Is there an active investigation by law enforcement?

    oldirishpig (e7adde)

  962. I don’t plan to do a post about this, but I have a couple of rhetorical questions:

    1) Who first mentioned JG to Lee?

    2) Who first brought Marianela Alicea tweets to Tommy Christopher’s attention?

    3) What is the relationship of this person to Andrew Breitbart?

    Chew on all that for a while and get back to me.

    And yeah: I came up with that ALL ON MY OWN! So don’t ask me who tipped me off.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  963. Where is JohnReid9?

    When is he going to do the video chat with Patterico?

    slp (347e33)

  964. Is there an active investigation by law enforcement?

    No comment.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  965. Dang. Lee’s big book/movie deal must be on hold then. *cry (ugh)

    StillConfused (786412)

  966. It looks like Lee is taking a break from the story, that’s probably wise. This story seems to carry with it a Mummy like curse. The more involved you get the madder you become.

    Johnny 5 is alive (5ccc5e)

  967. At post 1000, I don’t have to worry about putting gas in my car anymore or paying my mortgage. At post 1000 Obama does it for me!

    Kaisersoze (c86eb0)

  968. I’ve been wondering who brought up the JG name in general I believe the story is that St. Louis Activist Hub brought up the name Jenny George in CA initially. Beyond that I don’t know where the name came from.

    Johnny 5 is alive (5ccc5e)

  969. “It’s in the hands of law enforcement at this point.”

    It could be worse.

    TSA

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  970. Alicia Pain is not necessarily in the same category as the rest.

    I mean nobody is NECESSARILY in the same category, but she especially is not.

    Comment by Patterico — 7/3/2011 @ 7:08 pm

    Sorry. I am not paying close enough attention to all the players.

    slp (347e33)

  971. Does the TSA CHeck SOCKS?

    mikemadden59 (3cb7fd)

  972. I was way off. I said #1000 would be 6:59pm

    StillConfused (786412)

  973. I can’t believe I’m sitting here refreshing my screen until the magic number appears.

    Bill M (25d866)

  974. This is still the relevant comment thread and will remain so.

    Comment by Patterico —

    I am now officially laughing until I cry. I have no idea what’s going on, I cannot make head nor tail of which sock puppet belongs to whom.

    I don’t even know if John Reid9 explained anything or not.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  975. This whole episode should put to rest how in lockstep conservatives are. Contrary to popular leftie myth most people on the right for better or for worse think for themselves.

    Johnny 5 is alive (5ccc5e)

  976. FACTS: Lesbian rumors surfaced in Sept. 2007 about Huma and Hillary and the very next month, the NY Post posted a gossip item about Huma’s romantic interest in Anthony Weiner. Bill Clinton officiated at their wedding.

    Comment by Anita Busch — 7/3/2011 @ 6:45 pm

    Anita – Weiner’s behavior would make a lot more sense if he was a beard for Huma. Very good point.

    Kaisersoze (c86eb0)

  977. I agree 100% with what Johnny 5 said.

    mikemadden59 (3cb7fd)

  978. The true sockpuppet is Clinton’s dead caat, Socks.

    And it lives with Lee.

    Bill M (25d866)

  979. ba-da-bing!

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  980. Patterico do threats that cross state lines necessarily involve the FBI?

    Johnny 5 is alive (5ccc5e)

  981. Lee should dedicate his Weinergate book to Shari Lewis.

    slp (347e33)

  982. I’ve been wondering who brought up the JG name in general I believe the story is that St. Louis Activist Hub brought up the name Jenny George in CA initially. Beyond that I don’t know where the name came from.

    You answered #1.

    On to #2!

    Hint: you answered #2.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  983. So who the heck is Dan Wolfe anyway?

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  984. #1000 FTW!

    Johnny 5 is alive (5ccc5e)

  985. What 991 said. I’m down.

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  986. Oh my. History

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  987. So then who is St. Louis Activist Hub? My only knowledge of it is from the mentions by Lee.

    Kaisersoze (c86eb0)

  988. Should old acquaintance be forgot,
    and never brought to mind ?
    Should old acquaintance be forgot,
    and old lang syne ?

    CHORUS:
    For auld lang syne, my dear,
    for auld lang syne,
    we’ll take a cup of kindness yet,
    for auld lang syne.

    And surely you’ll buy your pint cup !
    and surely I’ll buy mine !
    And we’ll take a cup o’ kindness yet,
    for auld lang syne.

    We two have run about the slopes,
    and picked the daisies fine ;
    But we’ve wandered many a weary foot,
    since auld lang syne.

    We two have paddled in the stream,
    from morning sun till dine† ;
    But seas between us broad have roared
    since auld lang syne.

    And there’s a hand my trusty friend !
    And give us a hand o’ thine !
    And we’ll take a right good-will draught,
    for auld lang syne.

    StillConfused (786412)

  989. Sorry. I am not paying close enough attention to all the players.

    Comment by slp

    “Alicia Pain” is the name/pseudonym attached to threats made to Patterico, Ace, and possibly others.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  990. Hey, look, a thing!

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  991. Adam Shriver was the guy Tommy Christopher credited with bringing details about Veronica (Marianela Alicea.)

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  992. I know I said I don’t plan to talk about it, but . . . well, I might. A bit.

    Like just now.

    But mostly not. Is what I meant.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  993. Where’s the kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  994. Has anyone figured out where St. Louis Activist Hub got the name Jenny George? To me, if the name is correct, somebody who knows Jenny George threw her under the bus. Which would mean somebody knew what Jenny George was up to. Which leads to the idea that she could possibly have an accomplice. dun dun dun DUN!

    Johnny 5 is alive (5ccc5e)

  995. Adam Shriver

    Is who on Twitter?

    Patterico (f724ca)

  996. This is all still quite rhetorical.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  997. On to 2000!

    Patterico (f724ca)

  998. Well that was rather anti-climatic. Shall we go for 2000?

    StillConfused (786412)

  999. So who the heck is Dan Wolfe anyway?

    Comment by CausticConservative

    I sure don’t know. Sometimes, it seems to me that he’s just a sensible person keeping his head down; other times, I wonder if he isn’t the perfect sock, the instigator of trouble and all our current evils.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  1000. You can keep talking, I suppose, if you want. Just please don’t attribute opinions or theories to me, thanks.

    AArrgh! Does this mean no Zombie Apocalypse?

    Bill M (25d866)

  1001. Dammit, Janet! I missed it!

    Tutu (54ce64)

  1002. Where’s the kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!

    Comment by crosspatch

    Bless you! I love it!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  1003. I do like mysteries,but was hoping we would get the answers at 1,000.

    PatAZ (efd43b)

  1004. Second # 1016

    Bill M (25d866)

  1005. On to 2000!

    Comment by Patterico

    I’ve done my bit.

    My confusion is only slightly less, mostly because I’ve more or less given up.

    Oh, well, Happy 4th of July, Patterico!

    Dianna (f12db5)

  1006. St. Louis Activist Hub posted on his blog a search he had done on 123 dot com. Using Jennifer George as search criteria. Vaguely, described how he found Jennifer George tied to 1/2011 “Jenay” starchild cache page revelation.

    On 123 dot com, there is a reference to “Jennifer George” associated with starchild111 accnt

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  1007. How can this caper ever be solved with Columbo dead?

    Johnny 5 is alive (5ccc5e)

  1008. So, comments to 1000 was used as an incentive to what? Say nothing else is going to be written about any of this?

    Well, that’s teh suck.

    Susie Q (a6955c)

  1009. The issue with Starchild111 and how it could get from JG to a fake Nikki Reid is still a major item that needs furher discussion.

    Lee and Patteric need to continue to focus the Sockpuppets.

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  1010. Here’s the link where Shriver introduces the world to Jennifer George:

    http://stlactivisthub.blogspot.com/2011/06/is-starchild111-actually-jennifer.html

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  1011. “AArrgh! Does this mean no Zombie Apocalypse?”

    Keep the faith. Rumors has it that Mila already has it in the can, and Patrick will be showing a sneak preview after #2000

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  1012. People have abandoned my questions.

    Hint.

    I don’t know what any of it means, but I find it interesting.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  1013. Enough for now. Gonna celebrate the 4th by participating in a 4th of July Parade and help turn more youngsters into vile Republicians. Always a worthwhile endeavor.

    Happy 4th to one and all.

    Bill M (25d866)

  1014. Patterico,

    Both you and Lee were so deep into the weeds on this twitter-fake-ID thing, reaching the 15th level of self-referentiality while simultaneously speaking of pseudo-pseudo-fake characters, all the while portentously telling us that something BIG was just around the corner – and the whole time, maybe 3 people knew what the hell you were talking about.

    And now you somewhat pompously act like we were the ones with the problem, and you’re moving on, but we can keep talking about it if we want. But it’s you and Lee who were the super-freaks on this, not us. Maybe you were adopting fake identities and threatening each other the whole time!

    Brian (01bc92)

  1015. Read through the activist hub and you see that Shriver has big issues with Dana Loesch, including a number of confrontations. Loesch works for Breitbart’s Big Journalism. I don’t know if Shriver has had any interaction with Breitbart, however.

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  1016. 1009, my guess would be stlactivisthub

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  1017. And now you somewhat pompously act like we were the ones with the problem,

    Comment by Brian — 7/3/2011 @ 7:39 pm

    He says in a thread with a thousand comments….

    Kaisersoze (c86eb0)

  1018. @ Patterico,

    I haven’t abandoned your questions I’ve tweeted Brietbart to find out how he feels about Adam from St. Louis Activist Hub.

    Johnny 5 is alive (5ccc5e)

  1019. Anyway, yesterday, someone tweeted an interesting
    link that showed that one of the girls, @starchild111, who throughout #weinergate was thought to be named “Nikki”, originally had the name “Jenay.”

    Who tweeted Shriver’s “interesting link?” I cannot access itwith the link provided. It does read like a set-up in hind sight.

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  1020. Shriver. 31. doctoral student. At 31! Still. Professional student. Wash U. Starting to make sense.

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  1021. Does anyone else have posts disappear into the ether here from time to time? I’ve had two that after posting never showed up. Perhaps the comment section is feeling a little taxed today.

    Johnny 5 is alive (5ccc5e)

  1022. 820 JeffM

    And I’m a fan of Lees and interact with him all the time, and while I’m not in fear of him, per se, I do consider how I’m going to approach him so as not to rub him the wrong way.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1023. poor lee stranahan
    he try to leave leftwing Hell
    keep pulling him back

    ColonelHaiku (822dce)

  1024. http://danabusted.blogspot.com/search/label/Adam%20Shriver

    so yeah, looks like Shriver tweets under stlactivisthub

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  1025. #1031

    That was me. “Anyway, yesterday, someone tweeted an interesting”

    I had sent the 1/2011 Jenay cache page to Stranahan. I guess STLA saw my tweet/mention to Stranahan. Or, Lee had nearly immediately posted the Jenay page find and STLA may have seen it that way. Don’t know for sure.

    When STLA made initial post on JG 123 dot com find. He tweeted it out and copied me on his tweet. He did because the original post included my actual handle name on post as submitting the Jenay cache page (which I did to Stranahan only).

    I had no idea of the 123 dot com reference before STLA has posted. When STLA updated his post, he redacted some names including my handle.

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  1026. 825 Susie Q.

    I’m relatively new here and only know of Pat & Lee re: Weinergate revelations.

    I never got the liberal vibe from Lee on this story.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1027. So, comments to 1000 was used as an incentive to what? Say nothing else is going to be written about any of this?
    Well, that’s teh suck.

    Comment by Susie Q — 7/3/2011 @ 7:33 pm

    It does feel like a let-down but I think we need to keep in mind that both Patterico and Lee have agreed to stop blogging because “It’s in the hands of law enforcement at this point.” That strikes me as significant.

    DRJ (fdd243)

  1028. So LE is now involved because of the threats I take it? Good. Hopefully they can help get to the bottom of this.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  1029. We are practically to the point of this episode where someone emerges in handcuffs and exclaims, “And I’d have gotten away with it too. If it weren’t for you meddling kids!”

    That’s the payoff I’m looking for here. Anything else will be a disappointment.

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  1030. So LE is now involved because of the threats I take it?

    It is just impossible for people to write about this without making assumptions, isn’t it?

    Patterico (f724ca)

  1031. 841 Crispian

    Well-said.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1032. 842. Jan.

    I could be mistaken, but I think Lee thinks all socks (all the Reids, Marianela, very probably Dan/Patriot, and possibly more characters according to lee) could be one person, the JG MA who called him, and the motive is she was into Weiner, but then turned on him. Ex-lover/crush revenge. JG MA started Starchild and kept it all along. It was never taken over by anyone else. She’s a very liberal person, who will play any part to get the ultimate revenge on RAW.

    Apologies to Lee if I got this wrong.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1033. “Come, Watson, come!” he cried. “The game is afoot.”

    slp (347e33)

  1034. 854 mikemadden59

    Great thinking.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1035. 1044 Koam

    “Ex-lover/crush revenge.”

    Of Huma or Anthony?

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  1036. Patterico, what else is worth law enforcement’s interest? I am not a lawyer, or anything like one, but I don’t see what else is of the vaguest interest.

    I know I could be missing something, and you may think I’m thick, but really, how is an internet hoax of much interest to the law?

    Dianna (f12db5)

  1037. @ Patterico

    Good God man. Is this a comment section of a blog or are we all detectives/socks/and suspects? My statement was my own opinion of what I think is going on.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  1038. Posted below the headline for the Overnight Open Thread over at Ace’s HQ:

    Got your nick, tracing your ip address…

    Perhaps closure is actually….close.

    CausticConservative (b29599)

  1039. @ Patterico

    My last post may have come out as harsh (not how I intended it). I just don’t get why everyone gets this feeling that everything we type is part of the story or whatever. I see it as commenting on a blog.

    Noodles (3681c4)

  1040. Okay, I’ve compiled this to make it easier (for me, at least). Patterico asked the following questions, albeit rhetorically…

    1) Who first mentioned JG to Lee?

    #981 Johnny 5 is alive answers that it is St. Louis Activist Hub. #1020 az5thdstrct finds that they found this information through a people search website and #1023 CausticConservative gives the link to Adam Shriver’s post which explains his findings.

    2) Who first brought Marianela Alicea tweets to Tommy Chris?

    #1009 Patterico says Adam Shriver who is a blogger at St. Louis Activist Hub wrote the post for the link I gave above. Patterico gives further proof in #1025 that Adam is an author for St. Louis Activist Hub by linking here.

    3) What is the relationship of this person to Andrew Breitbart?

    #1028 CausticConservative determines a Dana Loesch connection. Loesch is the editor for Breitbart’s Big Journalism.

    #1033 and #1036 crosspatch gives links to the DanaBusted blog here and here, which show the animosity between Adam Shriver and Dana Loesch. Both the liberal Shriver and conservative Loesch are involved in St. Louis politics and are apparently rivals.

    My question: is Adam Shriver trustworthy or is he leading us down the rabbit hole? I can see how this would fit with the possibilities Patterico outlined in this blog post.

    rogerthat (f5aad4)

  1041. IP address traces often don’t mean much these days.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  1042. Dianna,

    You’re just going to have to trust me.

    Patterico (03ef17)

  1043. You’re just going to have to trust me.

    Comment by Patterico

    To comment 2,000 and beyond, I guess.

    I’m curious. Very, very curious.

    Dianna (f12db5)

  1044. 957, 989.

    Very interesting, along my way of thinking. I’m very critical of timing of pregnancy news, plus the ho-hum reaction for a young bride (with strong Muslim upbringing) subjected to international humiliation. I wouldn’t be shopping with him or eating with him. And I wouldn’t accept those crummy, ugly flowers. Would anyone but me be not suprised if the Mrs. returned from her trip to the spa sans baby? Very evil thought, but I wouldn’t put anything past the Clintons, et. al.

    gobblemom (706d9f)

  1045. “Where’s the kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!

    Comment by crosspatch”

    You mean it wasn’t as good for you as it was for me?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  1046. “My question: is Adam Shriver trustworthy or is he leading us down the rabbit hole.”

    rogerthat – I don’t know anything about rabbit holes, but a quick glance at the absolute bilge and propaganda that fills his blog posts shows he is not trustworthy.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  1047. 1057 – Well, let me just say that I didn’t need a cigarette after.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  1048. “So, comments to 1000 was used as an incentive to what?”

    Susie Q – I got a new toaster. Didn’t you register for a prize?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  1049. 1058 daleyrocks:

    What disturbs me more than the content of the postings is the people who follow him. I mean, are some of these people *really* interested in that vitriol?

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  1050. 1008 J5A

    The name Jennifer George appears on 123people.com search tool with the twitter nickname “@starchild111″

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1051. Okay, so Adam Shiver did those & is antagonistic to Andrew Brietbart. What does it mean? Also how the hell did Shriver get Alicea’s DMs anyway?

    RocksEm (5241c6)

  1052. Hmm, Charles Johnson seems to pop up a lot as I dig around.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  1053. I believe someone got the screenshot out of Stack’s yFrog account, where he had placed them by mistake.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  1054. Back to the initial propositions:

    1. The person claiming to be “Jennifer George” who called Lee was a hoaxer.

    2. There really was a person who threatened the real Jennifer George, and that person pretended to be Lee Stranahan.

    3. That person hates Lee, and Breitbart.

    Along with 200,000 other people, Adam Shriver fits items 2 and 3.

    slp (347e33)

  1055. Which of those 200,000 other people first ID’d Jennifer George as the owner of the starchild111 account, and tipped off Tommy Christopher as to alleged DMs from Weiner to Nikki Reid (per Marianela Alicea DMs to Mike Stack).

    The answer is zero of those 200,000 people.

    But thanks for posing the question so fairly!

    Patterico (f724ca)

  1056. Rauhauser’s post calling me a “Dishonest DA” is no longer available to anyone without permission.

    Good thing I screenshotted the whole thing before he took it out of public view.

    Hi, Neal!

    Patterico (f724ca)

  1057. “But thanks for posing the question so fairly!”

    Hey, slp has been nothing if not fair in helping to achieve the 1,000 comment goal if you ignore the content of the comments.

    “Sorry. I am not paying close enough attention to all the players.

    Comment by slp”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  1058. Other than koam at 826 and SarahW at 680 no one else picked up on my questions in 676.
    I will do a more in depth analysis if anyone is interested. (Talking about internal as opposed to external sock puppets.)

    Have Blue (dbbcd4)

  1059. “Along with 200,000 other people, Adam Shriver fits items 2 and 3.”

    slp – I think Lee claims to get along well with Shriver, contradicting your #2.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  1060. Is is POSSIBLE that once conservatives found out about Weiner’s inappropriate sexual comments with adult females (long before it was published) that someone on the right tried to set Weiner up to show that he would ALSO do the same with underage females and created fake underage girl or girls?

    I mean it wouldn’t be a stretch.

    quickquestion (a025dd)

  1061. 1020 Az

    123people.com
    and the image he used was from
    123people.fr, though I don’t know why the French site’s screencap was used.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1062. “Sorry. I am not paying close enough attention to all the players.

    Comment by slp”

    Comment by daleyrocks — 7/3/2011 @ 11:27 pm

    I have been following Weinergate fairly closely, but doing my comments from memory without having made any charts or notes.

    At the time of the post, I recalled Alicia Pain had made threats and assumed that she was part of the Nikki Reid sock puppet cabal.

    I am eagerly waiting for Patterico to lay out the facts and the supporting evidence.

    slp (347e33)

  1063. Comment by daleyrocks — 7/3/2011 @ 11:29 pm

    Just because Lee claims to get along well with Shriver, does not exclude Shriver from being the person who threatened the real Jennifer George and pretended to be Lee Stranahan.

    Since Lee has been posting Weinergate stories on the Bigs, it may be that Shriver has taken Lee off his good guy list.

    slp (347e33)

  1064. So what is the other Jennnifer E George ( the one that did NOT call Lee) doing tracking Jennifer Preston’s twitter cleanup using searchtastic.com?

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  1065. “Just because Lee claims to get along well with Shriver, does not exclude Shriver from being the person who threatened the real Jennifer George and pretended to be Lee Stranahan.”

    No sh*t?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  1066. Patterico,

    Yes, for example the goatsred aka Mike’s yFrog link was visible in a screen cap that was posted in a couple of blogs early in the Weinergate story.

    It was very easy to find the “real” names for Betty / Veronica and even Ethel.

    It even happened yesterday over on Lee’s blog where a screen shot was posted that showed Ethel’s twitter name before it was redacted on his blog post.

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  1067. 1079 1081 slp daleyrocks

    IIRC, Lee clearly states that he and Adam Shriver do not like each other at all. But Lee is proud not to let that fact get in the way of reporting on info. He doesn’t not listen to people just because he doesn’t like them.

    Of course this was in audio somewhere on BTR, not written up. Thanks, Lee.

    Correct me if I’m wrong.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1068. “He doesn’t not listen to people just because he doesn’t like them.”

    koam @wittier – He also claims he doesn’t hold grudges, likes old people and puppies.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  1069. Wittier,

    Jennifer George aka JG first came up based on a 123.com search and a refernce to Jennifer George and Starchild111 just like was posted.

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  1070. 1084 daleyrocks

    Yes, but in this case what I wrote is what Lee said and did.

    The implication is that perhaps his unbiased policy didn’t serve him well in this case?

    Lesson: If you know someone’s an a*#*##, maybe don’t listen to them?

    Not that I really understand the insinuations about what STLAH posted from 123people and if it’s right or wrong.

    We know “Jenay” was the name on @starchild111 in its earlier days.

    Question: When did the full name Jennifer George first come up?

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1071. It was posted on June 19 and that is what lead to everyone being an internet detective and reaching out to any and all Jen… Georges that they could find.

    This led to the Jennifer E George in CA being contacted by many individuals so she started posting the communictions.

    One or more Jennifer Georges contacted St. Louis Activist Hub and asked for their data to be removed from the blog.

    Excuse me could you please provide a contact number? I am Jennifer George from Los Angeles and I am getting calls now because of your blog. I’d like you to take this down. I have nothing to do with your ridiculous story. I will be calling the police as I am getting threats due to this. What is your number?

    June 19, 2011 5:11 PM

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  1072. 1085. Joe

    Wittier,

    Jennifer George aka JG first came up based on a 123.com search and a refernce to Jennifer George and Starchild111 just like was posted.

    Joe

    Comment by Joe Smith — 7/4/2011 @ 1:09 am

    That’s different from what I remember.

    We had the name “Jenay” and “@starchild111″

    I don’t recall having the name “Jennifer George”

    But at the STLAH post, Adam Shriver says he learned of the name “Jenay” and then revisited some search results.

    Anyway, yesterday, someone tweeted an interesting
    link that showed that one of the girls, @starchild111, who throughout #weinergate was thought to be named “Nikki”, originally had the name “Jenay.”

    This prompted me to reexamine some of the search results for @starchild, and it appears that the account @starchild111 is actually associated with the name “Jennifer George”

    http://stlactivisthub.blogspot.com/2011/06/is-starchild111-actually-jennifer.html

    The example of a search he posts from 123people is a search for “Jennifer George” on the UK site. He also attaches a screen capture of the search results for “Jennifer George” from the French version of 123people. In the image, you can read the URL which shows that he searched for “Jennifer George”

    http://www.123people.co.uk/s/jennifer+george

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d57nb8yrDqM/Tf5qieK4CdI/AAAAAAAACOo/oyflKI4PUOg/s1600/jennifergeorge.png

    So the search is “backwards.”

    I’m asking where the name Jennifer George came from in the first place.

    If he had searched for “Jenay” and “@starchild111″ and the result was “Jennifer George” I would understand the direction of the information flow.

    But he didn’t do that. And I can’t get to “Jennifer George” as a result by searching for “Jenay” and/or “starchild” or “starchild111″

    He started with the name Jennifer George.

    Where did the name Jennifer George first come from?

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1073. I didn’t realize the name Jenay was short for Jennifer either. I thought Jen was short for Jennifer.

    Hopefully LE can get to the bottom of this at some point. I guess we’ll find out when the search for the threat makers reaches it’s conclusion. Have a great Independence Day everyone!

    Johnny 5 is alive (5ccc5e)

  1074. I figured out a path to the 123people results without knowing the full name “Jennifer George”

    We knew “@starchild111″ and “Jenay”

    Make the guess that “Jenay” is a “Jennifer.”

    Google “@starchild111 Jennifer” and, to be fair, set the search dates to end 06/18/2011, the day before we think the Jennifer George name went public (so that search is hopefully not influenced by our chatter, post-STLAH)

    I got to http://www.123people.de/s/george+jennifer

    the German site for 123people

    If you don’t put the date params in, you can get to the UK 123people site for the search for “Jennifer George”

    Note that I didn’t use the name “George” in my Google searches (I “didn’t know George” and I guessed “Jennifer” from “Jenay”), but that searching for “@starchild111 Jennifer” took me to 123people pages as if I had searched for “Jennifer George”.

    And this fits with what I now recall from that day.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1075. So, I’m guessing that STLAH made the same guess that I had to. You have to drop Jenay and guess Jennifer to get to Jennifer George in 123people by way of Google. STLAH just didn’t say what he’d done (at least in the version shown as of today…maybe he did in an earlier version).

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1076. Witter,

    It started with the Jenay name attached to @Starchild111. I think we then had the George part based on a Jenay George in FB which when entered in Google, Google offered a possible search of Jenny George.

    Once you entered Jenny George, you also got results of Jennifer George and then when you add UCLA you got JG for Los Angeles who everyone started emailing….

    That also resulted in the Jennifer George and Starchild111 hits in 123people.ca, 123people.uk, 13people.fr…. yet another rabbit hole looking for the sockpuppets.

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  1077. If you look at the time stamps, I think you will see that Adam got his clue from this site, Patterico.com.

    That was another very busy weekend.

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  1078. Opps, forgot to mention that UCLA clue came from the follow of the UCLA writting group by the @Starchild111 twitter id that showed the Jenay name.

    Joe

    Joe Smith (54c0c1)

  1079. Koam , that is good lead to trace down.

    It would be very important to know how and when 123people search engine associated the name Jennifer George with the starchild111 twitter.

    Was it a slip up by the creator of the account?

    That would support lee’s theory

    Was it injected by a hoaxer in some way?

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  1080. 1092 Joe

    Your “George” appears without explanation. You don’t say where “Jenay George” in facebook comes from.

    I laid it out in 1090.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1081. 1095 TT.

    If Jennifer George created @starchild111 on facebook, as the caller Jennifer George from MA says, then it’s not much of a mystery. I’d expect some kind of internet search to find that info if the 2 names were associated in the past. We don’t have cached screen caps, but maybe the account was labeled “Jennifer George” prior to it being labeled “Jenay”.

    A web crawler at some previous time might have taken every twitter name it could find and associate each with a first & last name on the account and made a note of it.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1082. Hai Guyz! What’s happening on this thread?

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  1083. “What’s happening on this thread?”

    Uh, well, it looks like koam @wittier does not sleep. AT ALL.

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  1084. az5thdstrct, I came across your work. Highly respected.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1085. 1099. Anita Busch

    Tell me about it.

    Are you following on Twitter?

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1086. Jim, I think it’s dead.

    MDr (fd1f4b)

  1087. #1102 Mdr

    Don’t count on it. Once people wake up and have their 2nd cup of coffee, those neurons and Google-searches will be firing on all cylinders.

    Suppositions! Assumptions! Allegations! Implications! Inferences! Sly remarks! Knowing winks!

    Ooh boy, there will be fireworks on this thread, I assure you!

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  1088. The “Jenay” cache is old. Wouldn’t that tend to point to an old association of a Jennifer with the starchild111 account? – I realize that is not dispositive, but it is suggestive.

    SarahW (af7312)

  1089. 1092, that’s exactly right.

    SarahW (af7312)

  1090. “Hai Guyz! What’s happening on this thread?”

    Pious Agnostic – G’day. Happy 4th!

    What’s happening? Pushing for 2,000 comments.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  1091. 1105. SarahW

    1090 explains where “George” came from using Google search.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1092. “If you look at the time stamps, I think you will see that Adam got his clue from this site, Patterico.com.”

    Joe Smith – Shriver’s post was on 6/19.

    Stranahan’s BTR on Betty and Veronica Mystery solved was on 6/20.

    I don’t know the date az5thdstrct claims to have tweeted his key info to Lee which he believe Shriver used to write his post.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  1093. Do me a favor? Someone please tell me: Beyond all the sock puppetry, fake accounts, death threats and whatever else may or may not have been going on…

    What was the point? Who was the target?

    oldirishpig (e7adde)

  1094. 1109. oldirishpig

    Hard to say, but I still think that the target could have been #bornfreecrew directly, and right-leaning journalism, indirectly.

    Several people see Weiner being cyberstalked (to put a bad spin on it) or observed (to neutralize) as he actively engages with attractive women who are his political fans online.

    Those who empathize with Weiner see this as right-wing dirty tricks against a guy on their side. So they create a sting operation. Create some girls with whom Weiner can interact — of course he won’t do really anything wrong with them, these people think. But we know he’s being watched and it will be noticed if he “follows” them, etc. Then we’ll trump it up to make it look like maybe he’s crossed the line.

    The evil right-wingers will seize on that and publicize it by going to Fox or Brietbart, Bloggers or other outlets. Then, after the media have committed to it, we’ll whisper to someont to reveal that the interaction was harmless (embarrassment #1) and that the girls weren’t real (embarrassment #2). Making #bornfreecrew and any media that picked up the story look like total idiots who were persecuting the innocent Weiner.

    The thing no one bet on was that Weiner was way more guilty than anyone could have guessed…and he mistakenly sent that pic to everyone.

    And that’s just one theory. I’m not saying its true.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1095. koam @wittier

    That was me. “Anyway, yesterday, someone tweeted an interesting”

    I had sent the 1/2011 Jenay cache page to Stranahan. I guess STLA saw my tweet/mention to Stranahan. Or, Lee had nearly immediately posted the Jenay page find and STLA may have seen it that way. Don’t know for sure.

    “When STLA made initial post on JG 123 dot com find. He tweeted it out and copied me on his tweet. He did because the original post included my actual handle name on post as submitting the Jenay cache page (which I did to Stranahan only).

    I had no idea of the 123 dot com reference before STLA has posted. When STLA updated his post, he redacted some names including my handle.

    Comment by az5thdstrct — 7/3/2011 @ 7:59 pm”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  1096. Open quotes were mine and in wrong place in 1112.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  1097. koam @1111 – That is my theory. The wild card was nobody counted on Weiner self-destructing.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  1098. 1109 That is the mystery that identifying the real actor(s) might resolve.

    SarahW (af7312)

  1099. “That is the mystery that identifying the real actor(s) might resolve.”

    SarahW – I have information that would help crack that mystery wide open, but sacred honor prevents me from revealing it.

    I just wanted to say that, you know, to see how it felt. It makes me feel like a BLOG GOD, but not a Capital J journalist.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  1100. 1114 daleyrocks

    And that “meddling” Gennette, who was watching the watchers and suspicious of Nikki, tipping off Weiner, while lying to Nikki & pretending to be her pal. She may have inadvertently helped to botch a plan by those who actually were on her side, because she suspected they might have been working for the other side.

    Why was Gennette also the intended target of the DM dic pic that went out as a public tweet instead? Just ironic? What could have been going on there?

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1101. Justsayin, you seem to be willfully dishonest.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  1102. And happy Independence Day, everyone.

    Dustin (b7410e)

  1103. Happy independence day, all, alright can we move onto another conspiracy, th rabbit chased the gopher into the tunnels under the NY subway

    ian cormac (d380ce)

  1104. I came on to check if the 1000 was reached and what the answers to Weinergate were. Reread and saw that I had made an assumption that at 1000 I was going to get something. (Good lesson about assuming) Thanks for the toaster, LOL!! Have the last documents been dumped? I haven’t found them. Anyway here is my part towards the 2000 and above. Thank you Patterico for your continued work, I must say that I agree with you about your commentors. Time to get the bbq up and running, so to all Happy Independence Day!!!!

    freedom_costs (51c21c)

  1105. Was there even a “bornFreecrew” to meddle with before the Weiner-watching began, at Patriots instigtion?

    SarahW (af7312)

  1106. Obviously this whole law enforcement thing is just misdirection by Pat and Lee. They’ve been tag-teaming with different theories designed to get the various shadowy players sucked in – you know, the old good cop, bad cop routine – and now they’re playing up the LE angle to scare the Reds into damaging counter moves. I fully expect the conspiracy to break under the pressure.

    One of the puppeteer’s multiple personalities will turn state’s evidence.

    Nathan Wagner (01c83e)

  1107. 1.) I still want to know what Tommy Christopher knows about Weinergate.

    2.) I still want to know why Tommy Christopher was “the chosen”.

    3.) I still want to know who chose him and how the contacts really worked or were set up for him.

    4.) I still want to know how his “collaboration” with NYT Jen came about, and when, and why her.

    5.) I still want to know why TC doesn’t outwardly appear to mind having been punked, or be pissed about it, or be very curious about it. (Which is why I kind of bet he already knows most of the answers –and truth– behind items 2,3, 4,and 5.)

    And, friends, that is why I believe the rest of the world gaining knowledge of the full answer to #1 would be quite useful. Tommy’s a real person–a public person. Obviously he had to have been interacting with at least one other real person who posed as and represented other (fake) people in order for him to have multiple communications with those fakes. What does TC know and when did he know it?

    elissa (4a1b75)

  1108. I have nevar seen Jenay used as an alternative for Jennifer. More likely an alternative of Janae.

    Then again, I suppose someone with half a brain could pronounce Jenna as “jen – ay”.

    Jenay \j(e)-
    nay\ as a girl’s name is a variant of Janae (American). See Janae for more on meaning of Jenay.

    The baby name Jenay sounds like Jenny, Jena, Jennay, Jenai, Jenae, Jeanay, Janay and Jonay. Other similar baby names are Denay, Jency and Renay.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  1109. Forrest Gump pronounced Jenny as Jenay, did he not?

    elissa (4a1b75)

  1110. So Jennay is quite an unrelated name to Jennifer.

    Janae \j(a)-nae\ as a girl’s name is pronounced ja-NAY. It is of American origin. A favored contemporary variant of Jan, Jane or Jean. Janai is also a Biblical male name with the meaning “God has answered”.

    Janae has 22 variant forms: Janaea, Janaeh, Janah, Janai, Janais, Janay, Janaya, Janaye, Janea, Jannae, Jeanae, Jeanay, Jeanay, Jenae, Jenai, Jenay, Jenee, Jennae, Jennay, Jennaya, Jinae and Jinnea.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  1111. Happy Independence Day to you and yours

    RR

    Reaganite Republican (c90bca)

  1112. 1126 elissa

    That’s one thing I was thinking about a week ago. Someone mispronouncing someone’s name. That would connect back to the whole Jenna/Nikki porn thing. (Jenna Jameson and Nikki Tyler who were friends and lived together for a while).

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  1113. 1111, except, Patriot fomented that Weiner-watching activity, and by my observations “Patriot” has long revealed his persona is as phony as any of the socks.

    The Nikki sock and Patriot socks are in league if not the same person.

    Why would THAT be so? I guess this matters, as I asked before: was there even a “bornFreecrew” to meddle with before the Weiner-watching began?

    Punking a pack of right-wing twitterers might be amusement enough for some, but it’s playing with fire to ignite a scandal about a specific politician when his bad habits are real and supsected if not known. It would draw down attention, unflattering attention on Weiner and potentially draw out women like Broussard and the Vegas chick and lord knows who else, but even more dangerous, his penchant for chatting up sweet young things (to the exclusions of other followers and fans) who idolize him, whom he has no business talking to privately except in the most general way.

    One inference that can be drawn from that high risk scenario is that the hoaxer(s) wanted attention drawn to Weiner’s habits.

    This might be to immunize Weiner against such attention by inventing a scandal that is later to be discredited. But that still seems incredibly risking and not worth the benefit of making Breitbart ridiculous, or someone like Mike Stack.

    What is more likely in my view is that the hoaxer wished attention to be focused on his bad habits, to GET THE STORY OUT.

    This could be a scheme of political enemies (even some from his own party)or a kind of personal revenge, jealousy or anger about another follower (Ginger lee has a stalker, BTW) or a way of some random Weiner sextress making her story/pics gain value for sale, or otherwise enriching or promoting its teller. And I’m sure there are motives for getting the story out I have not considered.
    ********

    The hoaxer(s) clearly had some plan develop for watching Weiner and gaining access to him and his doings through his other female followers – attempts to befriend and obtain an exchange of confidences.

    I’m thinking the story was offered to Breitbart less to punk him, than in the misguided notion he would publish anything, in hopes he would bite, and generate interest in Weiner’s habits.

    After all, everything the Marianela sock offered Stack really existed and was actually in the sock’s possession.

    When Breitbart passed, they went to Tommy to get an untrue story about Breitbart out. I see a deliberate attempt to game Tommy the way they thought they would game Breitbart – offer him a story he couldn’t refuse, that is exactly what he would believe and want to publish.

    The Tommy approach was a second try – this was post Breitbart saying “thanks but no thanks.”
    The nikki sock then gets caught in spectacular lie about the Breitbart is making us lie angle – and backs off that story in full reverse, though all that Marieanela sock had offered Stack was available.

    By this time Weiners pic has made his habits famous, the now more valuable stories of other women emerge, and Weiner’s contact with other minors is very helpfully being put forward by the Reidsocks.

    Mission accomplished?

    Suspicion is also thrown Mike Stack’s way, as potential penis pic hacker – deliberately by the socks. Is this pure misdirection resulting from the sock(s)’ fear of being caught out as Weiner’s exposer?

    A plan to punk anyone possible to punk is a hallmark of Anonymous-style operations. Is that the explanation for seemingly contrary goals –

    Perhaps this was a directed attack at Breitbart it failed in some ways and got out of hand, and switched them to simply yanking people around for lulz? I am not sure I can articulate why but I’m actually thinking NO on that.

    Is “get the story out, by any means necessary, without being identified” the goal? <– this one I am partial to.

    Did Anonymous-types simply join in the afterparty?

    This is a light entertainment for me at this point. It's, as I told Patrick, a guilty pleasure, my Jersey Shore.

    No matter who or why the motives, Weiner got caught being who he really is and that can't be undone. Even people who wold rather support him, in their hearts of hearts, know he would always be a looming liability to his own friends and own party. He's creepy and immature on his good days.

    So if it was a Breitbart sting, fail.
    If it was a get paid for my own pictures scam – win
    If it was an "expose Weiner" plot – win
    If it was screw with people plan, win win win.

    SarahW (af7312)

  1114. Forrest Gump pronounced Jenny as Jenay, did he not?

    Comment by elissa — 7/4/2011 @ 10:02 am

    That is what I thought too. In fact, that was my first impression, that “Jenay” was from Forrest Gump, so Jenay = Jenny = Jennifer didn’t bother me one bit.

    Does this have any significance? I have to imaging not. I could see a girl growing up, her friends calling her “Jenay” from the movie, and her using that as a Twitter handle, no problem.

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  1115. Happy Birthday, USA!

    PatAZ (efd43b)

  1116. The Forest Gump thing would have another interesting twist for someone trying to burn Weiner (stupid is as stupid does).

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  1117. I tweeted Jenay cache on 6/18
    STLA hub post 6/19

    http://twitter.com/#!/az5thdstrct/status/82222113502666752

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  1118. #1134

    While I can see your tweet, the link in the tweet comes up “forbidden” for me.

    http://bit.ly/lMRuCE

    Anybody else?

    Pious Agnostic (6048a8)

  1119. Patterico, my impression of shanahan was that he was inexperienced. He could do with a class in logic and also on how to keep personal and public opinions separate in his mind. A lot of his schtick is very high standards for other people, very low standards for himself.

    jd2 (cdceb5)

  1120. 1124 elissa

    Do you think JP / NYT told TC to shut it, like Lee was told?

    Or do you think whatever higher power that got JP spooked (unless that was an act) also got to Colby / Tommy?

    Do they send people in to deliver a “national security” or other type of hush order?

    Total conjecture, of course.

    But remember the takeaway from the blowup between Lee and JP.

    My post to Lee from July 1
    http://leestranahan.com/weinergate-gosh-what-the-heck-happened#comment-6300

    Lee,

    I’m listening to your extended BTR show from last night and have reached a point of confusion on what you’re saying that Preston’s position on why to not pursue the person behind the call you received from Jen George in Boston and who Preston has talked to several times:

    1) You said earlier that Preston said that Prof Lew Hunter’s site may be a phony and the prof may have punked Preston/you.

    – You disagree. You think Hunter is real and was truthful.

    2) You said last night that Preston said that Jen George in Boston’s @startchild111 twitter was hacked so that JG is not responsible for the Weiner activity of Nikki. Preston: “Lee there’s nothing to tie JG into that Nikki Reid account.”

    – You disagree. (I don’t think Pru proved that the account was hacked or not hacked. Either could be the case) but you say it was not hacked. You say that Preston buys JG’s story that the account was hacked, “absolutely, hook,line and sinker.”

    So in case 1) you say Preston is saying that JG’s evidence (the prof) is fake….so Preston won’t pursue (this goes too deep, she warns you)

    And in case 2) you say Preston is saying that JG’s story is true.

    So I don’t understand how you say Preston both incorrectly disbelieves JG’s story and simultaneously incorrectly believe’s JG’s story.

    Isn’t that a bit messed up?

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1121. So in case 1) you say Preston is saying that JG’s evidence (the prof) is fake….so Preston won’t pursue (this goes too deep, she warns you)

    And in case 2) you say Preston is saying that JG’s story is true.

    So I don’t understand how you say Preston both incorrectly disbelieves JG’s story and simultaneously incorrectly believe’s JG’s story.

    Isn’t that a bit messed up?

    Comment by koam @wittier — 7/4/2011 @ 10:30 am

    That says more about JP than Lee.

    Mistrusting Lew H but trusting the rest of JG:s story is crazy, his site has been online for years. JP could also check his ID easily, if she wanted to.

    Temper Tantrum (02fe1b)

  1122. My Forrest Gump comment above was purely pop culture observation, BTW. I personally have a singular disinterest in the whole Jenny Jenay angle.

    That said, one of the interesting observations about human psychology that can be made about the various threads (Patterico and Stranahan and Ace and Pru) on Weinergate is how different commenters and theorists latch on to the particular aspects of the hunt that they find particularly intriguing or to which their education/training points them as being the more relevant.

    elissa (4a1b75)

  1123. #1134

    Sometime over the last week or so. Yahoo “blocked” that 1/2011 Jenay cache page.

    If you look at multiple postings of the Jenay cache you can see it came from Yahoo top right corner. Including STLA post

    screencap he used:
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-kN06BxQQIqo/Tf5cIF3BUII/AAAAAAAACOQ/_oOav941hF0/s1600/jenay.png

    Don’t know why Yahoo “blocked”.

    But at time I also found on Bing and had resumbitted this last week to Stranahan:

    So here you go.

    http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=http://twitter.com/starchild111&d=4738964055069054&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=103056d3,77902c9f

    az5thdstrct (e76e6a)

  1124. Thing is, someone relaying information verbally might find the information at the receiving end different from information relayed in written format. Same holds for someone trying to recall something from deep in the past (e.g. “dang, what was that actresses name … it was jen-something … Jenay, yeah, that must be it”)

    Other thing is, when people pick aliases, they often pick names close to their own or maybe with the same initials as their own. So a Jennifer picking a Jenay might not be so unusual. But then changing it to Nikki is kindof unusual. Why that particular name? That’s when I remembered the Jenna / Nikki connection and thought maybe someone was playing off that, considering the whole porn star angle going on with one of Weiners follows.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  1125. FYI, this from the Associated Press:

    Google Inc. has temporarily shut down a search engine feature that allows users to find real-time updates from Twitter, Facebook, FriendFeed and other social networking sites.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  1126. Crosspatch, how come?

    Sarahw (af7312)

  1127. “By this time Weiners pic has made his habits famous, the now more valuable stories of other women emerge, and Weiner’s contact with other minors is very helpfully being put forward by the Reidsocks.”

    SarahW – I’m a little confused on the dates and timing you are referring to here, particularly with respect to the Reidsocks providing information before or after Weiner fesses up to tweeting his meat, which I view as the game changer and a signal for a jail break for all involved.

    We’ve got the dic pic late on 5/27.
    Betty’s mom strident defense on 6/3
    6/6 Weiner press conference about tweeting his meat
    6/8 X-Rated Weiner picture leaked.
    6/11 N.Y. Post publishes story saying Ethels mom says Weiner only sent two emails.
    6/11 Patterico publishes post saying Weiner sent Ethel five emails.

    Hopefully I got the above right.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  1128. SarahW,

    I appreciate the theorizing as I think it could be helpful to have smart people like you talking about the possibilities.

    It seems pretty obvious to me that whoever Wolfe is, he was trying to get the story out about Weiner.

    If Reid is Wolfe — and I take no position on this — he was also against Weiner from the beginning and posed as pro-Weiner. If Reid is not Wolfe, Reid could have been a) basically what he says or b) part of a punk Breitbart and Wolfe operation or c) Lord knows what else.

    Alicia Pain and any other threateners/criminals may or may not be the same people. Frankly, that’s all I care about.

    The key to the interface between those two groups are the alleged threats coming from Lee. Lee says the only possibility is that she made them up. I say maybe the Alicia Pain hackers and punkers impersonated Lee to JG. There is evidence supporting that theory beyond what we have discussed.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  1129. ==Comment by koam @wittier — 7/4/2011 @ 10:30 am==

    Quite honestly I have absolutely no conjecture to offer– or deeper thoughts about the TC/NYT thing beyond the series of questions I posted @1124. These questions have been plaguing me because I have felt the initial Mediaite story TC published was off in several respects and that much about his “followup” and other behavior since then has been rather strange. For someone, a journalist, who seems to have been purposely inserted into the story and then seemingly removed from it as opposed to reporting it, Tommy appears to be getting a pass from appropriate levels of scrutiny for some reason.

    elissa (4a1b75)

  1130. 1141 if one goes with the frustrated screenwriter angle, Nikki wasn’t meant be an alias, so much as a distinctly drawn character.

    Sarahw (af7312)

  1131. Hi Neal!

    Ticks are teh suck, literally.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  1132. I am of the opinion JG caller, JG MA & Alicia Pain are all the same person & unrelated to Weinergate. Just a crank latching on for attention. I thought the call to Lee & Preston by JG was a punk job & told them so at the time.

    RocksEm (5241c6)

  1133. 1145 Patrick

    Leads me to (continue to) think that:
    – JG MA is real person.
    – JG MA started @starchild111.
    – JG MA was broadly truthful in call to Lee.
    – Is generally who she says she is
    – Did get scary calls
    – Was genuinely uninvolved in case
    – Someone else took over @starchild111 at a later time & created Nikki.
    – JG MA went to BPD in good faith.

    But what of the contention that Lee put out that the JG MA report was being dismissed?

    - I understand if Lee has been exonerated (good) but BPD wouldn’t close case just because caller wasn’t Lee or Lee-related if there still were scary calls to JG MA.

    koam @wittier (e74ff0)

  1134. Sarahw, apparently so they can get it somehow integrated into Google+ is the speculation.

    crosspatch (6adcc9)

  1135. In her circle of friends it’s very likely there was more than one “Jennifer” since it’s such a common name.

    Hence she acquired a nickname for whatever crazy reason you get a nickname. Maybe Gump reference, maybe her middle initial is A.

    All I know is when I saw “Jenay” I immediately thought “Jennifer”.

    Molon Labe (dc676c)

  1136. Contentions that Lee puts out are worth the documentary evidence backing them up.

    Patterico (f724ca)

  1137. As far as the “Punking Breitbart” rationale goes, keep in mind that when PatriotUSA76 saw Weiner’s May 27 tweet, Patriot retweeted it to many media outlets, including Breitbart, Politico, Fox News, N