Where / Who Are Betty, Veronica or Patriot?
[Guest post by Lee Stranahan]
One of the strangest aspects of the #Weinergate story is that they are three people that are fairly central to the story that nobody seems to be able to locate. Neither the prescient Weiner-obsessed whistleblower PatriotUSA76, nor the two high school girls named “Betty and Veronica” in Tommy Christopher’s original piece reporting on the two.
I’ve discussed the situation with Patriot a number of times, so the update is – still, nobody seems to have ever spoken to them on the phone. Nobody knows who they are and there are contradictions in their story.
I had reporters calling me all weekend to try and find Betty and Veronica. These are people from major press organizations with big resources behind them. No sign of Betty or Veronica. Tommy Christopher says he spoke to Betty’s Mom on the phone and did other things to confirm their identities and it would be a fatal career move to just lie about that, so it’s hard to believe that that’s what happened. On the other hand, nobody else has seen this proof as far as I know (perhaps Colby Hall, the managing editor?) and Tommy has been very belligerently defensive about his reporting. And again, reporters have put dozens of hours into searching records and knocking on door with no trace.
Significantly, Betty seems to be connected at least four people central to Weinergate – Weiner followed her, she talked on Twitter with stripper @GingerLee, Betty contacted the 17 year old girl in Delaware, and she had some interactions with PatriotUSA76. It also seems like @GennetteC knew about her.
It’s weird and it’s weird in a way that’s not normal, either. When else has this happened? I can’t remember another story with 3 (or more, really) phantom people. The fact that Weiner is guilty of doing what Patriot long suspected him of doing makes it more weird, not less weird.
And no, they don’t all seem to be the same person. For one thing, Patriot is clearly anti-Weiner and Betty and her Mom (also MIA) are very pro-Weiner. I honestly just don’t know what’s going on. Maybe it will be a simple answer. The basic issue of identity shouldn’t be tricky. I’d prefer that.
– Lee Stranahan
Tommy Christopher protested too much about his honesty in the interview last night.
Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (a18ddc) — 6/15/2011 @ 10:19 amlee
i don’t think you can be particularly sure they are different people.
but while there is nothing wrong with pursuing it, you might have to accept at some point you will never know the answers to this. i am not saying we are there, but that day might come.
Aaron Worthing (b1db52) — 6/15/2011 @ 10:23 amAaron- why are you feeding GNC’s “Allred is embarrassing herself” line on Twitter? Why do anything but boost the idea that yeah, disclosing Weiner’s communications is good?
Person at the corner bodega (081489) — 6/15/2011 @ 10:27 amHer line is self-serving.
OOps. Sorry.
MayBee (081489) — 6/15/2011 @ 10:27 amI’d prefer that.
Me too.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 6/15/2011 @ 10:29 am“It’s weird and it’s weird in a way that’s not normal, either.”
Sue (24e46b) — 6/15/2011 @ 10:39 amThe world is rarely “normal”. I know some people who work very hard at being private in this “abnormally” public world. They have good reasons, including simply the desire to remain private. We may never know the “real” identities of these people, but exactly why do we need to know? Weiner was, and is, in serious need of being watched and being stopped. That does not provide adequate reason for these other individuals to be “outed” and exposed to death threats and the other types of “investigations” that often follow in our current society.
Allred said there was someone- a guy- who was threatening to release info from either Ginger Lee or Weiner. She did not indicate the information was false. But it isn’t easy to get a hold of someone’s emails.
Just throwing a crazy theory out there- is it possible one of Weiner’s aids became disgusted by him? Maybe Patriot was a Weiner insider.
MayBee (081489) — 6/15/2011 @ 10:44 amMostly, though, I suspect patriot was someone who noticed something weird going on. And hiding after the fact seems like a totally rational response to me.
MayBee (081489) — 6/15/2011 @ 10:57 amI just gotta say, it would be much much weirder if someone like Patriot had been perfect. Then I’d be a little suspicious. This is a nonsophisticated crank partisan trying to get a story out there which has a lot of dirtiness to it, so he… got the 5 second thing wrong? So what? Isn’t that evidence he’s real and honest? If he’s got everything smoothly explained like B and V did, that seems really suspicious.
REAL witnesses in the real world will get little things wrong. Their recollection will be colored by their excitement and fear. And fake witnesses will get nothing wrong because their recollection was created to prove something.
Just saying. I don’t think Patriot76 is anything but what he said he was. His fears for his kids and divorce seem pedestrian and paranoid and totally realistic for the kind of person who would be on Weiner’s ass on facebook. This guy is not laughing about this story from his yacht while being served a pina colada. He’s a real person who is probably working his 9-5 right now, thanking the Lord the people who want to profit from his hard work don’t know who he is.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 10:58 amI agree 100%. It’s that other girl who interviewed with Aaron who seems irrational and compulsive and motivated by something hidden.
Patriot finished what he set out to do, and now he’s got nothing to gain but attention he doesn’t want if he comes forward.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:00 amPerson
as you can see by last post, i have a low opinion of allred that isn’t improved when she happens to be right.
seriously, i see no valid cause of action, here.
as for gennette, i think ace has valid advice, here: http://minx.cc/?post=317487
if you talk honestly and respectfully, she will answer, mostly.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:10 amTommy Christopher was complaining in a June 3 piece about Jim Hoft from Gateway Pundit posting public source information about some of Weiner’s twitter followers:
“Right-wing blogger Jim Hoft, also known as Gateway Pundit, posted a list of young, female, mutual follows with Rep. Anthony Weiner’s Twitter feed several days ago, ostensibly to express “concern” over the pattern, but his description of “Pages of Young Luscious Fans,” and his presentation of large photos of the girls, made it seem more like an exercise in exploitation. His inclusion of the young women’s Twitter links seemed more like an invitation to harassment. Whatever alleged “news value” this information had could have been preserved with a more responsible presentation, but sex sells, right?
At least one of the girls (Hoft doesn’t say whether he bothered to check the others) was an underage girl who had already been harassed off of Twitter by the same clique that first “discovered” the controversial tweet from Rep. Weiner last Friday night. Hoft acknowledges this, but still splashes the 17 year-old’s photo and Twitter id all over his page. Remeber, “luscious” is his description.
When I objected via Twitter, and called for the information to be treated responsibly or removed, Hoft responded by calling me a crank, and posting a yellow insinuation about Rep. Weiner:
Mediaite crank Tommy Christopher attacked this blog for revealing Weiner’s predatory habits:
(@TommyXtopher) How about it? Any decent #tcot think Jim Hoft @gatewaypundit should take down his jailbait gallery? Anybody? Bueller?”
In the same piece he also continued his attack on creapy harassers goatsred and patriotusa76. I forget, have we ever seen those so called harassing emails sent to Betty, Veronica, Ethel or any of the others or do we just have Tommy’s representations?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:11 amLee, are they looking in the right place? I mean, do they have the city and state right? You would know this
SarahW (af7312) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:13 amDamn that is quite a fine question, Daleyrocks.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:14 amNo she doesn’t, Aaron. She sucks people in so she can talk about how the popular opinion is she’s doing a great job in her PR campaign.
And the “person” is me, by accident. I forgot to change the handle.
And it doesn’t bother me that you have a low opinion of Allred. It bothers me you sought her out to make sure she knew that you have a low opinion of Allred just as Allred is getting information out there. You really think that’s going to encourage GNC to answer questions? It gives her cover.
MayBee (081489) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:14 amdaley do you have a link to that? i crossed swords with tommy christopher and his self-righteousness last night.
Aaron Worthing (e7d72e) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:20 amThe harassment consisted mainly of “be careful” tweets, and the occasional disagreeable representation of Weiner’s proclivities and habits, in the context of “be careful”.
SarahW (af7312) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:21 amI thought the attacks on PatriotUSA76 were over the top, uninformed and insulting, especially coming from bloggers. If they were intended to draw him into the open, it was a poorly chosen strategy.
The idea that it was stratospherically unlikely for him to see Weiner’s tweet was laughable on its face and an insult to any blogger’s commenter base. Judging from a blogger’s own behavior patterns it might seem unlikely, but look at the base of people on a blog at all hours at view it from that perspective and that stratospheric unlikelihood takes on a completely different dimension.
Patriot’s comments and cautions about his custody battle are also completely understandable to those who know people who have gone through that stuff. People can go absolutely batsh*t crazy in custody battles, both men and women, and uninformed bloggers pooh poohing Patriot’s concerns obviously had no clue what they were talking about.
It was a completely silly part of the exercise based on the information known at the time. If information was not on the table, it should have been explained.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:27 amMaybe Weinergate really does have a Deep Throat! Can’t wait for the “real” reporters to go for their Pulitzers on this one. (Roxanne Pulitzer, as it were.)
dfbaskwill (ca54bb) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:30 amA.W. – Here is your link. Sorry, it was June 4.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:32 amI think Betty and Veronica are hiding.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:37 amI hadn’t thought of the first point. An aggressive attempt to force Patriot to defend himself, by repeatedly smearing him? That’s cynical, but I admit, I find the concept pretty realistic. A lot of people in blogging are hoping to use stories like this to gain notoriety and money, rather than just report what they know and what they think about it.
As to your second point, I think you’re right. It’s insulting to one’s intelligent to be told it’s unlikely someone saw that picture. It would have been amazing luck had no one hostile to Weiner had seen it. The man in a lightning rod.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:37 amAnother laughable TC equivocation from May 30:
“When we first reported on Wolfe’s activity, he wasn’t available for comment, but he has since denied being the alleged hacker in question (an accusation, for the record, that we never made)”
No Tommy, but you just finished strongly insinuating it from the prior five paragraphs of the same piece, putz:
“Combined with the tweet of the underwear pic several hours later, though, it is a damning coincidence, though still only circumstantial. However, if you accept the idea that Weiner was hacked, the timing can make more sense. For example, if someone monitored his Twitter feed fanatically, and kept close tabs on who he followed, and spoke feverishly of an impending sex photo scandal involving a northeastern Democrat, Gennette Nicole Cordova would be a natural selection to receive the hacked tweet.
As it happens, the man who was the one and only person to directly retweet the offending picture, Dan Wolfe (aka @patriotusa76) was part of a group that did just that, and Gennette Nicole Cordova was one of their targets. They descended upon several young women who received mutual follows from Rep. Weiner, harassing one of them (a 16 year-old) right off of Twitter. They also tweeted a nonstop stream of venom at Rep. Weiner, much of it involving sexual innuendo about the Congressman.
Additionally, when Wolfe retweeted the photo, but failed to get a screen capture of the tweet. In their original report, Big Government reasonably used a screencap from the Congressional Twitter archive, which doesn’t show how the tweet was sent (phone/web/etc). A real-time screen capture would have that information, and might have suggested Weiner’s innocence or guilt. Weiner’s tweets that night were sent via Tweetdeck. A real screenshot of the original tweet, had it said “sent via YFrog,” would stick out like a sore thumb.
None of this proves that Wolfe hacked Weiner, but it certainly illustrates the very real possibility that someone could have. If this group can show this level of obsession with Weiner, it is not a stretch to believe that someone could learn enough about him to crack his YFrog password. Anyone who follows Wolfe or his clique would have also seen their interactions with Ms. Cordova. Her retweet could have been a waited-for opportunity.
Of course, there is as much actual proof of this as there is that Weiner wasn’t hacked. However, when someone’s life and reputation are on the line, red flags like these shouldn’t be ignored. The presumption of innocence should be that much stronger.”
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:45 amCan’t find Patriot after the Left smear machine went full Clinton? Don’t understand it.
Can’t find Betty or Veronica after Weiner hired a lawyer and internet security team? Don’t understand it.
MDr (fd1f4b) — 6/15/2011 @ 12:05 pmIt’s ridiculous to characterize Patriot’s (and his clique’s) communications with the young girls as harrassment.
He had no way, initially, to email or DM them directly. Instead he @mentioned them and included a mention of @RepWeiner in each tweet. All publicly visible.
I know goatsred and V mutually followed for DM purposes, but that was later and for the purposes of V’s nefarious game.
Molon Labe (dc676c) — 6/15/2011 @ 12:14 pm“It’s insulting to one’s intelligent to be told it’s unlikely someone saw that picture.”
Dustin – Not really my point. Look back at the way Patriot was described.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/15/2011 @ 12:22 pmI ask Gennette for the record to produce any damning tweets with just MY NAME on them to show I harassed you.
goatsred (b20383) — 6/15/2011 @ 12:23 pmI have yet to find one anywhere. I actually apologized to Ethel bc my Twitter @goatsred was always included with all the others in a “reply all” scenario.
In light of all this, maybe I’ll hit the lottery after I get a retraction from some of the sites that ruined my reputation.
Yeah.
Sarah – yes they are going by the info listed in the girl’s profiles, which is very cearl.
Lee Stranahan (708cc3) — 6/15/2011 @ 12:24 pm“In light of all this, maybe I’ll hit the lottery after I get a retraction from some of the sites that ruined my reputation.”
goatsred – Good luck with that.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/15/2011 @ 12:25 pmWasn’t Tommy Christopher a bona fide member of JournoList? And if he was, stands to reason that he’s part of CabaList or whatever the surviving listserv is called now among the Democrat Media Complex. IOW, wouldn’t surprise me at all if the damage-control squad delivered a msg to TC to construct a narrative – but then the story got worse than Weiner’s protectors could have imagined.
Instead of picking apart one detail at a time from TC’s narrative, perhaps it might be helpful to start from scratch, without any of the exclusive information that TC supplied – i.e., alleged phone calls, etc. Pretend that you don’t have TC’s “reporting” – at all, and then construct the story.
Something that still bothers me – how did “Betsy”‘s mother – and “Veronica” – get in touch w/ TC in order to release “their” statement (or whoever wrote it for them)?
http://www.mediaite.com/online/andrew-breitbart-did-not-run-weinergate-evidence-which-turned-out-to-be-fabricated/5/
Funny – at Mediaite the Ginger Lee/Gloria Allred story was covered today by Mark Joyella, not TC, even though TC’s been point-man for the Weiner stories. Now TC has done nine stories on Weinergate since May 29, the last on Mon. 6/13, on Press Sec’y Carney’s response to the Weiner fiasco.
http://www.mediaite.com/author/tommy-christopher/
Apologies if you all have addressed these issues already – I’ve been following the story but not every post.
Miranda (4104db) — 6/15/2011 @ 12:26 pmI suppose it didn’t help Patriot’s motivation to come forward when he was called a liar and manipulator right here on PP.
Molon Labe (dc676c) — 6/15/2011 @ 12:35 pmSomething that still bothers me – how did “Betsy”‘s mother – and “Veronica” – get in touch w/ TC in order to release “their” statement (or whoever wrote it for them)?
goatsred (b20383) — 6/15/2011 @ 12:44 pmI got a call late the before the release of this article Thursday evening from TC asking for my side of the story and I was already sleeping,so I opted not to talk.
The next day I saw the piece and wondered the same thing. If they were so concerned, why Mediaite? And now some “journalists”say they don’t exist?
So Tommy, does one have to subpoena Twitter to see where all these Dm’s came from on my TweetDeck and iPhone? Because that seems like the next logical step. Because if they did use the word harass, or not, I am willing to have my lawyer look into it due to my reputation being harmed greatly at the hands of many publications, including yours.
Then I can truly clear my name.
I can’t believe I’m talking about intelligence if I can’t write properly anyway.
At any rate, I failed to keep up with all the things people said about the Patriot guy, but the idea it was some kind of shocking coincidence that he’d have been there to see the picture seemed really irrational to me. It’s totally plausible, and everything that has unfolded suggests that’s what happened. At this point, I guess that’s just obvious, though.
Yes, that’s the glaring issue. Why is Tommy Christopher, a sleazy weirdo, the go to guy on this? I mean, I may not agree with everything Lee Stranahan has said about this, but he doesn’t come across as some kind of low life political hack by any stretch. Why didn’t this family deal with someone much unlike Christopher? I’m not sure what journalists you put in scare quotes, but anybody with a more even reputation would have made more sense.
Until that happens, this issue is alive.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 1:32 pmDustin – Closer. Everybody knows that low-life loser hacks are the only people looking at their computers on a Friday night so their credibility must instantly be questioned because it would be impossible for any semblance of a normal person to have observed that tweet.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/15/2011 @ 1:46 pmOh yeah, I see. Yeah, that’s a different point than mine. I actually probably and at least slightly guilty of saying something along those lines, but milder, when I noted that sure, something like this could make someone look bad in a child custody case. They could be portrayed as a kook.
But what you’re identifying, that claiming they are not credible simply for paying attention, is a lot worse. I mean, these guys were right. They were protecting young ladies from a predator. That explains why they would be focused on him. But even without that, that line of thought is aggressively unfair and actually amusing given the kinds of people who would say it (people who are up late obsessing about political issues).
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 1:51 pm“that line of thought is aggressively unfair and actually amusing given the kinds of people who would say it (people who are up late obsessing about political issues)”
Dustin – Do you mean commenters on political blogs?
The custody points were completely separate.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:04 pmDustin – Or blog proprietors not realizing who they are insulting?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:07 pmYup! Myself included of course.
I know. I’m just saying I personally had said something along those lines, though milder, that combined the two. I can see this guy being an imperfect person who saw a chance to do the right thing, and that kind of thing could be used to harm him by an ex wife. You already said basically the same thing, but I wouldn’t be surprised, and don’t care, if he’s a little bit of a fringe partisan.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:08 pmYeah, it’s a great point.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:09 pmYes, that is the one burning question I really want an answer to – Who sent Betty?
SarahW (af7312) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:12 pmDustin – How stratospherically unlikely was it to have a bunch of low-life obsessed freaks listening to blog talk radio in the middle of the night last night?
Seriously, these questions answer themselves.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:12 pmYou know — going after a kinky-krazy powerful politician with a boatload of violent union thugs at his beck before he even calls them is scary. I would do all I could to protect myself and my family if I were Patriot. And the girls are probably just as afraid of their lies being exposed for the damage it would do to themselves and their beloved kinky-krazy politicians. . . . or it could be the girls were actually male lesbian bloggers.
starboardhelm (e93080) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:18 pmAnd I the only one who sees it?
Ok I was not going to speculate but since this seems like the official speculation post, let me point out the obvious that everyone on the whole internet seemed to miss.
OK so you have this guy (PatriotUSA76) who suddenly ‘knows’ what Weiner is doing on twitter. Said guy just happens to be involved with an ex-wife and a new honey who apparently has mental issues. He took Weiner’s shenanigans persoanlly and set out to stop the man.
Now remember: Weiner fesses up to (about) 6 on-line affairs and some of the women have not come forwards….
Maybe it is just me but it seems OBVIOUS to me that one was PatriotUSA76’s gal pals was trading nasty email with Weiner and Patriot found them.
That would explain how he knew what Weiner was up to and his motivation to stop him.
I’ve thought this from day one and I’m stunned that I’ve never seen this theory anywhere.
Paul (59d3fd) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:25 pmYeah, this is really stupid. If I’m being unclear, of course you’re right that it’s completely predictable people do things like that. And that we aren’t lowlifes for doing so.
But add in the fact they weren’t just trolling political issues, but actually on a mission? These people got painted as freaks when the freaks are the people who saw Weiner’s behavior and weren’t paying attention. Tommy complained about that Hoft post, so many had cause to do what Patriot and his crew did.
Anyway, why not turn our curiosity directly on when Twitter will get a subpoena. How many dozens of girls? How many were minors? Someone needs to check it out, and frankly, if they haven’t already done so that’s unacceptable.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:26 pmAlt theory – PatriotUSA76 is female and was on the receiving end of a “package” package from Weiner and set out top stop him.
Same basic theory, Patriot knew what Weiner was doing first hand.
Paul (59d3fd) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:29 pmCan you clarify? Are you saying Patriot was a woman involved with Weiner too? Are you saying Patriot was a friend of one of the girls getting this stuff?
Sorta like this person some speculate (wildly) had grabbed Ethel’s blackberry to punch in perverted messages about honey mustard?
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:29 pmYou know, if I were a kid and my friend was a minor getting these gym photos or getting messages about gagging on penises, I would just call the cops. But I guess it’s not inconceivable someone like that would just pay attention to Weiner while warning people about him.
I don’t know. I mean, none of us can do more than guess like this, to no real end. He did the right thing, though. I do know that.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:32 pmEverybody knows that low-life loser hacks are the only people looking at their computers on a Friday night so their credibility must instantly be questioned because it would be impossible for any semblance of a normal person to have observed that tweet.
To be fair, I think part of that idea was hatched because Lee and Patterico tested out Twitter and didn’t, for some reason, get the little new tweets number on the open tab.
MayBee (081489) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:40 pmThey thought it was really difficult to happen upon someone’s timeline just as they got a new Tweet. It isn’t, and when they learned that they really backed off.
by Paul — 6/15/2011 @ 2:25 pm I did speculate along the lines of DW being a disgruntled tweet-finder – At one times I specifically considered Ginger Lee in the mix, because she has a male (at least GL called him a “he”) stalker IRL, one who was some sort of roomate at one time. (He actually knew her, was a friend – as opposed to someone fixated on her screen persona) – but any Pic victim’s relation or friend might be upset enough to try to expose him somehow.
DW ,if truthful, hated Weiner for his out-there political persona and support of Obamacare in particular. It was only after he began noting his twitter activity that he saw the concentration of young girlies in his very limited number of followers.
SarahW (af7312) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:42 pmThey didn’t get the new tweet number? I never don’t get the new tweet number.
SarahW (af7312) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:43 pmActually, if Patriot was a receiver of unsolicited perversion, waiting until Weiner accidentally published a message to someone else wouldn’t make any sense whatsoever. This person would just expose him directly. Just call Fox News and let them see your facebook account or whatever it is.
Actually, from how it played out, someone on the outside being in the right place at the right time to see a reckless screw up, Patriot’s claim to just be a conservative who was concerned about his behavior makes perfect sense. I think it’s the best explanation.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:46 pmThey didn’t get the new tweet number. My own browser has been very irregular in its new tweet number production lately, but I usually get it.
MayBee (081489) — 6/15/2011 @ 2:46 pmDustin, agreed, in the end it’s not that complicated, and he didn’t “make” Weiner do anything. He just saw it.
SarahW (af7312) — 6/15/2011 @ 3:03 pm“They thought it was really difficult to happen upon someone’s timeline just as they got a new Tweet. It isn’t, and when they learned that they really backed off.”
MayBee – To be fair, Patterico had a theory which he said would take too long to explain in detail to people. You can pull up the citations yourself from June 3. In the interim, he hyped how exceedingly unlikely it was and how abnormal it was for Patriot to be watching Weiner’s page for a tweet.
After the technology spirit quest failed to pan out, the denigration of Patriot slowly stopped. The repeated insults based on Patriot’s email exchange with Ladd Ehlinger did not stop right away. From that you could see Patriot was somebody used to conversing via text message or IM.
Other than that, I agree with you 100%.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/15/2011 @ 3:06 pmMaybee, that explains a lot. I couldn’t actually understand that one particular objection, that DW would be on scene for a new tweet.
SarahW (af7312) — 6/15/2011 @ 3:08 pm>Actually, if Patriot was a receiver of unsolicited perversion, waiting until Weiner accidentally published a message to someone else wouldn’t make any sense whatsoever. This person would just expose him directly. Just call Fox News and let them see your facebook account or whatever it is.
But Patriot DID NOT wait until Weiner accidentally posted his Weiner.
As for the rest… It is QUITE conceivable that his gal pal (ex) was trading weinograms and he saw them but did not have access to them. (or similar)
Point being, I’d bet a donut, Patriot knew what Weiner was up to first hand, long before the now infamous tweet.
Paul (59d3fd) — 6/15/2011 @ 3:08 pmehhhh, ok, I guess your theory makes more sense than I thought.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 3:10 pmFrom TC’s May 30 Mediaite Post:
“As it happens, the man who was the one and only person to directly retweet the offending picture, Dan Wolfe (aka @patriotusa76) was part of a group that did just that, and Gennette Nicole Cordova was one of their targets. They descended upon several young women who received mutual follows from Rep. Weiner, harassing one of them (a 16 year-old) right off of Twitter.”
Well, if he is referring to Veronica, don’t we know that is a false narrative because Weiner dropped her after she asked him to be her prom date?
With respect to driving people off twitter, I was under the impression that you could block messages from unwanted senders as well as block unwanted readers from reading your feed. Some here will recall Radley Balko’s paranoia about Patterico when he blocked Patterico’s access to his twitter feed. Please correct me if I am wrong. How are tech savvy teenagers who can block unwanted attention supposedly driven from twitter?
Something does not smell right.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/15/2011 @ 3:17 pmDan Wolfe answered queries about the source of his resentment towards him and his suspicions about his selection of persons to follow seem natural enough, though. It’s very true he had a hawk eye on that activity ,and in particular that evening because of the 5:45 tweet, which signalled a possibility of both DM’s and public conversation later. Maybe by this time Veronica had promised to get Nikki to Query Gennette about their conversations and get her to characterize them – maybe even draw out suggestion of flirting.
That certainly would tail with “Nikki has caps” tweets.
Patriot was perhaps tying to sting with the truth – get the girls to talk amongst themselves, and then have a mole who would report what was said.
SarahW (af7312) — 6/15/2011 @ 3:50 pmDan Wolfe answered queries about the source of his resentment towards him and his suspicions about his selection of persons to follow seem natural enough, though. It’s very true he had a hawk eye on that activity ,and in particular that evening because of the 5:45 tweet, which signalled a possibility of both DM’s and public conversation later. Maybe by this time Veronica had promised to get Nikki to Query Gennette about their conversations and get her to characterize them – maybe even draw out suggestion of flirting.
That certainly would tail with “Nikki has caps” tweets.
Patriot was perhaps tying to sting with the truth – get the girls to talk amongst themselves, and then have a mole who would report what was said.
SarahW (af7312) — 6/15/2011 @ 3:50 pmNot sure how that was duplicated, sorry.
SarahW (af7312) — 6/15/2011 @ 3:51 pm27.I ask Gennette for the record to produce any damning tweets with just MY NAME on them to show I harassed you.
I have yet to find one anywhere. I actually apologized to Ethel bc my Twitter @goatsred was always included with all the others in a “reply all” scenario.
In light of all this, maybe I’ll hit the lottery after I get a retraction from some of the sites that ruined my reputation.
Yeah.
Comment by goatsred — 6/15/2011 @ 12:23 pm
Indeed! You deserve retractions and apologies! Thank you for your efforts and Good Luck!
Juan (37612c) — 6/15/2011 @ 4:27 pm30. Wasn’t Tommy Christopher a bona fide member of JournoList? And if he was, stands to reason that he’s part of CabaList or whatever the surviving listserv is called now among the Democrat Media Complex. IOW, wouldn’t surprise me at all if the damage-control squad delivered a msg to TC to construct a narrative – but then the story got worse than Weiner’s protectors could have imagined
______________________________________
This is the last listing of JourNoList that I saw and Tommy Christopher’s name is not on it. (If anyone has an updated one, please publish):
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2573077/posts
Juan (37612c) — 6/15/2011 @ 4:32 pmDem. Family Feud Breaking Out Over Weiner
“House Democratic leaders could begin the process of taking away Rep. Anthony Weiner’s committee assignments today as part of a final push to force him from office, even as a minor backlash against calls for his resignation has emerged from one corner of the caucus.”
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0611/57080.html#ixzz1POPGqCOW
bmertz (d77c52) — 6/15/2011 @ 5:07 pmAs a Syrian lesbian, I’m very concerned for all the wimmin involved.
Baldy (e01951) — 6/15/2011 @ 7:48 pmI guess we will have to wait for the new media savy Gennette to write her tell all book during her summer break. Oh while we wait we read about what another Communications major from Washington State is dreaming about….
source: http://flipthemedia.com/index.php/2011/06/the-digital-ethics-of-weinergate
Joe
Joe Smith (54c0c1) — 6/15/2011 @ 9:29 pmGinger Lee said that Weiner told her there was going to be a Twitter scandal. How did he know this?
SusanT (355042) — 6/15/2011 @ 9:37 pm==How did he know this==
Goatsred had copied Weiner on some warnings didn’t he.
elissa (9db391) — 6/15/2011 @ 9:40 pmHelp My weiner has gone crazy.
Heh.
DohBiden (15aa57) — 6/15/2011 @ 10:14 pmHere is more detail on the Twitter life of Ethel… Prudence has an interesting timeline of the interactions.
http://prudencepaine.com/2011/06/14/weiner-and-the-teen/
Joe
Joe Smith (54c0c1) — 6/15/2011 @ 10:42 pmRE ^^^
Am I the only one who is uncomfortable knowing this much about a kid? I don’t think we should be getting this degree of detail about Ethel.
A lot of people are extremely curious about people who there are good reasons to not learn more about.
This is an important part of journalism. Sometimes you do leave some stones unturned, and sometimes that means you don’t get the answers you want. I think the ability to make that call, as hard as it is, separates the great from the good.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 10:50 pmDon’t interpret my remark as support for not verifying the mere existence of B or V, or an attempt to ask about Weiner’s involvement with their apparently (to me) manufactured claims.
There’s a difference between a trusted source verifying basics like that and eliminating any privacy for a potential child abuse victim.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 10:52 pmDustin,
Actually it is a great tool to use to help teach teens concerning what happens when you share too much information via Twitter, Facebook, or a Tumbler blog!
They don’t seem to understand that this data is so freely available to almost “ANYONE” without regard to motives.
Joe
Joe Smith (54c0c1) — 6/15/2011 @ 10:59 pmJoe – Thanks for that link. I liked seeing the “Freak” warnings to the girls from the BornFree crew.
Those were like so “TOTALLY” harassing.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:36 pmYeah, that’s true. I don’t even know what Tumbler is, btw. heh
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:36 pmEthel is disturbed. Hopefully her parents are getting her some kind of help.
What I read was consistent with the honey mustard stuff.
And I’m again struck by how familiar Weiner acted with her. “Tights cape and sh*t” is not how Congressmen talk to sexually troubled kids. I’d think that crossed the line if there wasn’t Weiner’s pattern of sending sexual stuff to other people only slightly older than Ethel.
Still, her name is out there, and the level of scrutiny on her makes me sad.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:45 pmI agree with Dustin’s concerns re “eliminating any privacy for a potential child abuse victim”. That site’s post goes over the fine line between Ethel’s involvement with Wiener and the efforts of the bornfree crowd to warn her—into a detailed examnation a minor’s everyday love life, friends and her character flaws. Be careful to not put the publicity headlights on the potential victim.
On the other hand there were some tweets that do deserve attention from Ethel’s parents!
Did you read Ethel’s comments about Male Teacher Crush1?
Quoting Ethel:
” its really hard to take instruction from someone you got drunk with on Friday”
In the middle of Ethel’s tweet investigation how did her parents miss that red flag about their daughter’s teacher?
bmertz (d77c52) — 6/15/2011 @ 11:59 pmNothing to see here, move along. Whatsherface, the savvy media expert, is sure that was just a joke too. Like the other odd messages.
Anyway, that’s public record now. Poor kid has to carry that around. I realize she put it on the internet in the first place. Joe’s point is true. But then she removed it, and adults put it back on the internet. Is that prudent?
The more I think about it, the harder it is to say it’s totally unjustified. I didn’t read that whole post, but there’s a lot of trouble there. The teacher, the girl, the congressman, the friends, the booze. And maybe even the parents, if my recollection that they looked over all she said and it was appropriate is accurate.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/16/2011 @ 12:08 amAnd maybe even the parents, if my recollection that they looked over all she said and it was appropriate is accurate.
In light of the I got drunk with my instructor tweet I cannot believe that her parents actually read through the entire transcript of her tweets. Unless they rank as the number one Airheads of all-time.
Teenagers often create a mess, but most of them are allowed a chance to correct bad choices without having their lives under a national spotlight. I am very concerned that Ethel won’t have that chance. Yes, she will have this nastiness hanging over her for years. In reading through the post I saw a teenager with the typical hyped-up and fragile emotions. But this intense. negative and very public attention could push those emotions into the danger zone.
What a toxic combination: Her teacher, her parents and especially Congressman “Perv,”
bmertz (d77c52) — 6/16/2011 @ 12:40 amShe probably won’t.
That’s why Congressman Weiner should have used judgment. He was trusted with a position of power and notoriety. He abused that in an incredibly selfish way, well aware of the risks to this girls and young women.
It’s unfair to Ethel to be responsible for the crap she deleted from her Twitter because she was a kid who didn’t appreciate the significance of what she was doing and saying. We’ve all seen Weiner put his manipulative skills to work.
Anyway, I’m still waiting to hear that Weiner’s online services have opened his accounts to law enforcement.
Dustin (c16eca) — 6/16/2011 @ 12:48 amI read somewhere that Ethel’s mom said that she and her daughter support Ginger Lee and read her blog together. Can’t find the site now, but it was a lengthy recounting of the interview with the mom.
SusanT (355042) — 6/16/2011 @ 6:01 amNYT says Weiner is stepping down: http://nyti.ms/j3WARh.
SarahW (af7312) — 6/16/2011 @ 6:43 amThat would be from Tommy’s article, susan.
SarahW (af7312) — 6/16/2011 @ 6:44 am