Patterico's Pontifications

11/1/2010

Salman Rushdie Responds to the Inclusion of Yusuf Islam in Stewart’s Rally to Restore Sanity

Filed under: General — Aaron Worthing @ 1:25 pm



[Guest post by Aaron Worthing; send your tips here.]

As regular readers of this blog know, at the Rally to Restore Sanity, Jon Stewart welcomed noted islamofascist Yusuf Islam on stage to perform.  Islam, who used to be known as Cat Stevens before his conversion to radical Islam, had endorsed the fatwah against Salman Rushdie, and as late as 2007 stated that he supported making blasphemy a capital offense.  I mean by then he had “evolved” to the point that he said he preferred that such persons received a fair trial before having their heads hacked off with a rusty scimitar.  So there is that.

Anyway, so Nick Cohen at Standpoint Magazine passes along Salman Rushdie’s opinion on the subject of including Islam at a rally to restore sanity.

I’ve always liked Stewart and Colbert but what on earth was Cat Yusuf Stevens Islam [sic] doing on that stage? If he’s a “good Muslim” like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar then I’m the Great Pumpkin. Happy Halloween.

And since this was a late update to my post on the subject, I thought I would reprint what Islam said in 2007:

I never called for the death of Salman Rushdie; nor backed the Fatwa issued by the Ayatollah Khomeini – and still don’t. The book itself destroyed the harmony between peoples and created an unnecessary international crisis.

When asked about my opinion regarding blasphemy, I could not tell a lie and confirmed that – like both the Torah and the Gospel – the Qur’an considers it, without repentance, as a capital offense. The Bible is full of similar harsh laws if you’re looking for them.  However, the application of such Biblical and Qur’anic injunctions is not to be outside of due process of law, in a place or land where such law is accepted and applied by the society as a whole.

So he wants to give you a full and fair trial, before being murdered for blaspheming Mohammed (pedophilia be upon him).  Meanwhile, Charles Johnson has said the following about Islam’s appearance at the Restoring Sanity Rally: “”

Yep, that is right, he has said nothing.  “Move along, nothing to see here.”  Mind you, this was the guy who only last April wrote:

So here we go again with a very touchy Islamic group threatening “South Park” creators Matt Stone and Trey Parker with death because the cartoon show dared to have a cartoon character version of Mohammed, the revered prophet of Islam, revered so much that if you don’t revere him some of his followers will kill you, even for a freaking cartoon….  And the threats will continue until a stiffer spine shows up somewhere in the media.

But apparently he can’t be bothered to denounce the presence of an actual death-for-blasphemy Islamofascist on stage at a “Rally to Restore Sanity.”  Why?  The answer is obvious: because he can’t let anything contradict “teh narrative.”  So he pretends that Beck’s rally was smaller to the point of holding up CBS news as being more trustworthy than what you can see with your own two eyes, and he ignores the islamofascist Stewart welcomed on stage.  The important thing is to prove that this rally showed that liberals were strong, sane and enthused.

Mind you, I am sure Stewart is opposed to such fatwahs.  My best guess is that either he wasn’t aware of the controversy surrounding Yusuf Islam (which suggests he is in a deep liberal cocoon) or he thinks the fact the man once wrote “Peace Train” is a reason to overlook that.  Hey, I like “Peace Train,” too, but principles are principles.  Until and unless the man apologizes and denounces islamofascism, at the very least he should be shunned from polite society.

Then again, Hollywood types have never had trouble arguing that we should ignore the most horrific acts because a person is a great artist.  So we shouldn’t be surprised.

[Posted and authored by Aaron Worthing.]

197 Responses to “Salman Rushdie Responds to the Inclusion of Yusuf Islam in Stewart’s Rally to Restore Sanity”

  1. So he pretends that Beck’s rally was smaller to the point of holding up CBS news as being more trustworthy than what you can see with your own two eyes

    Aren’t you pretending that the crowd-counting was conducted by CBS News, when in fact it wasn’t?

    And aren’t you pretending that the graphic of what “you can see with your own eyes” is misleading if only because there is a pool on one picture, and trees obscuring BOTH pictures? And that the scale at the bottom (with the drawn ovals) cheats a little on the Glenn Beck side?

    I mean, if you’re concerned about others being scrupulously accurate and honest, don’t you shoot yourself in the foot by NOT being accurate or honest?

    Kman (d25c82)

  2. And, aren’t you pretending to be a sentient being?
    I would hate to see you shoot yourself in the foot, that would require extensive dental reconstruction.

    AD-RtR/OS! (273260)

  3. Doesn’t the Islamofascist formerly known as Cat Stevens also do the two step when asked whether Hamas is a terrorist organization and whether he supports it?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  4. The original source for this seems to be a letter to the editor. Doesn’t seem all that credible to me.

    scrubone (3cac02)

  5. scru

    source of what? be specific.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  6. Cat Stevens = Joe Islam

    (Yusuf = Joseph)

    Once a prima donna, always a prima donna.

    ras (b7f440)

  7. Robertson: You don’t think that this man deserves to die?
    Y. Islam: Who, Salman Rushdie?
    Robertson: Yes.
    Y. Islam: Yes, yes.
    Robertson: And do you have a duty to be his executioner?
    Y. Islam: Uh, no, not necessarily, unless we were in an Islamic state and I was ordered by a judge or by the authority to carry out such an act – perhaps, yes.
    [Some minutes later, Robertson on the subject of a protest where an effigy of the author is to be burned]
    Robertson: Would you be part of that protest, Yusuf Islam, would you go to a demonstration where you knew that an effigy was going to be burned?
    Y. Islam: I would have hoped that it’d be the real thing

    Dry humor? Fatwahs are just a barrel of laughs and choosing an Islamofascist performer really restores some sanity- nine years hiding and fearing greatly for your life-ha ha-real hilarious- only a joke!! Dry humor? Didn’t really mean it?

    “You lie!”

    dudeabides (4af6f8)

  8. Do you mean this Yusuf Islam, the acclaimed singer-songwriter, humanitarian and philanthropist.

    http://www.yusufislam.com/

    Damn you people are stupid. You don’t even know what the term “islamofascist” means.

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  9. jharp: The making of a very bad joke.
    Laugh, I thought I’d never start!

    AD-RtR/OS! (273260)

  10. Err … scusa me … I’ma just a dumb redneck. But what is Salman Rushdie other than a hack idololatratic writer who made himself famous by insulting a major religion?

    nk (db4a41)

  11. Have any of you read “The Satanic Verses”?

    nk (db4a41)

  12. Have you, Aaron?

    nk (db4a41)

  13. You prefer Hinduism to Islam? At least Muslims do not burn widows alive on their husbands’ funeral pyres.

    nk (db4a41)

  14. What Rushdie is is less important than those who agreed with a fatwa calling for his death.

    Those people are not sane. Even if some Hindus have murdered widows or some Islamofascists have gone much farther than merely calling for murder.

    Jharp thinks the guy’s own personal website is an unbiased source on this guy’s history? Some things render you beyond credibility on American politics. Issuing a call for murder is on that list.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  15. Aaron Worthing,

    Does the bigotry come naturally to you or do you have to try?

    Or are you just another snake oil salesman selling hate?

    I honestly believe it’s a little bit of all three.

    Let me guess, you claim to be a Christian?

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  16. “Some things render you beyond credibility on American politics. Issuing a call for murder is on that list.”

    Please. By all means. I beg you. Share that with your pro life crackpots. Enough of the murder of doctors and clinic bombings.

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  17. he should be shunned from polite society

    Which is why he was at the Rally.

    I hardly count those people as “polite”.

    The Departed (d027b8)

  18. Does the bigotry come naturally to you or do you have to try?

    It is completely unreasonable to call Aaron a bigot for specifically pointing out a specific individual and a specific issue Aaron has with that individual.

    Let me guess, you claim to be a Christian?

    Now there’s your bigotry, to generalize unreasonably.

    Enough of the murder of doctors and clinic bombings.

    Comment by jharp

    Of course, I already have condemned abortion bombers on this blog, but that’s an extremely rare occurrence. This boogeyman of yours just doesn’t happen very often,. A successful bombing of a clinic occurred in 1998, 2001, and 2005.

    It’s still very wrong, but what do you care? You’re happy to pretend I support murder because you are a total bigot against Christians. You’re projecting this bigoted worldview onto someone who did not make such a frothing argument.

    And I probably should stop feeding the trolls.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  19. So, our very mild mannered friend jharp—fresh from being instructed to quit being an insulting and angry troll writing hateful nonsense—writes:

    “..Or are you just another snake oil salesman selling hate?…”

    When it comes to accusing others of peddling hatred, sir, you really should probably be quiet.

    I do like how jharp continues his mantra, sans punctuation:

    “Damn you people are stupid.”

    I think he writes that because he fears that he himself, well, isn’t all that bright.

    Voting begins soon!

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  20. Enough of the murder of doctors and clinic bombings

    Aside from the guy in KS (who was utterly denounced by the right), when was the last doctor murder or clinic bombing?

    The Departed (d027b8)

  21. nk, I know you are sensitive on the subject of Islam due to family issues, but insulting all Hindus because of sati is pretty similar to me insulting Islam because of genital mutilation of women…which is FAR more common nowadays than sati.

    As for Rushdie, I am surprised at you: the penalty for writing something insulting should be death?

    Again, I know you are defending family, and I salute that.

    And yes, I have read “The Satanic Verses.” When I hear that a religion wants a book banned, I go read it to find out why.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  22. when it comes to Roeder, or Rudolph or Paul Hill, I’m even more disposed to let them hang, the same
    does not apply to the colleagues of Ayers, or Kimberlin, or Ted Kazysnki

    ian cormac (c07a45)

  23. “But what is Salman Rushdie other than a hack idololatratic writer who made himself famous by insulting a major religion?”

    nk – Do we need to put Richard Dawkins on a hit list? Comparing a rare supposedly voluntary Hindu practice with something commanded by Muslim leaders is vile.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  24. Jharpie and William Yelverton are proud of their bigotry towards Christians. Criticizing a specific individual for their actions is not bigotry, harpie, but you need an IQ greater than that of a garden slug to understand that. It comes as no surprise that you don’t.

    JD (803412)

  25. It’s also much safer to trumpet bigotry toward Christians, JD. Which is the point with our tough talking trolls, I suspect.

    I smell Wally Cox behind their posts. Don’t you?

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  26. Due to the Partition of 1947, there’s a lot of bad blood between Hindus and Muslims. That’s where I believe Salman Rushdie came from.

    Nothing to do with my family. I am totally certain that not all my ancestors were Cristians. 😉 My family line is older than 2006 years.

    nk (db4a41)

  27. Eric Blair – Even Bill Maher expressed his strong concerns about Islamic inroads into Western society on a recent show, going much further into political incorrectness than Juan Williams.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  28. *Christians* No offense.

    nk (db4a41)

  29. Allah is a pimp.

    highpockets (d42ce5)

  30. But what is Salman Rushdie other than a hack idololatratic writer who made himself famous by insulting a major religion?

    I bet 99% of the people out there couldn’t tell you who the author of “The Last Temptation of Christ” was. So, you’ve got to do more than just insult a major religion if you want to make yourself famous.

    Some chump (4c6c0c)

  31. Apparently Rushdie came from a Muslim family, but was never really religious.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  32. Nikos Kazantzakis was no hack writer. He was also the author of Zorba.

    And the question was not who heard the author’s name; it was who saw his work.

    nk (db4a41)

  33. I’ve long said that one of the most potent ways to induce rage is to take someone’s power away, and apparently tomorrow’s election is already having that effect on the trolls here.

    As a silver lining, I guess it means they’re already past denial, which is a good start, anyway. By Wednesday they should be up to bargaining and depression.

    ras (b7f440)

  34. Daley, that is what I wanted to write: Rushdie was indeed born in a Muslim family in Mumbai.

    The percentage of Muslims in Mumbai is less than 20%, and it is not particularly near Pakistan at all.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  35. Also, like Rushdie’s writing or not, but the London Times listed him among the top 50 writers in the UK.

    http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/article3127837.ece

    He comes in at #13, and was ranked above Burgess, Dahl (sob), Fleming, Amis, and Ishiguro.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  36. Enough with the rankings. BCS for writers!

    ras (b7f440)

  37. Rushdie was already a prize winning author by the time he wrote Satanic Verses, so the unknown meme can go out the frakking window.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  38. Eric Blair – Even Bill Maher expressed his strong concerns about Islamic inroads into Western society on a recent show, going much further into political incorrectness than Juan Williams.

    Comment by daleyrocks

    Yes he did. And he was wrong and that wasn’t very smart of him.

    Not to mention that the most common name being Mohammed is no evidence, none, that Islam is growing in the UK.

    You right wingers ought to take note and the next time one of your hacks says something stupid call them out on it.

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  39. It is just tough to polish a turd of a religion whose values are incompatible with today’s Western civilization. Reform is needed.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  40. “Yes he did. And he was wrong and that wasn’t very smart of him.”

    jharp – Why was he wrong?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  41. It is a full time job just keeping track of your bigotry and lies, harpy.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  42. Jharp

    > Does the bigotry come naturally to you or do you have to try?

    Don’t you know this is EXACTLY why your side is about to be pounded tomorrow? Specious claims of bigotry. How dare you oppose government run healthcare, you racist!

    Seriously, name what is bigoted about what i wrote. I want to hear it, because I am giving good odds that by the time we are done, you will prove to be a bigot.

    > Let me guess, you claim to be a Christian?

    Yes. Do you claim to be an American?

    Nk

    > Have any of you read “The Satanic Verses”?

    No the reviews were terrible. I mean its sort of like Dennis Miller said in the 2live crew controversy: “Why couldn’t we be having this argument over Purple Haze?” So why couldn’t we have been having this argument over Ender’s Game. [Eric will call me a geek again in 3…2…1…]

    But as I said with Geert Wilders, I don’t care about the content. It was his God-given right to say what he said, however offensive it might have been.

    > You prefer Hinduism to Islam? At least Muslims do not burn widows alive on their husbands’ funeral pyres.

    I prefer the peaceful version of any and all religions. So yeah, I oppose the funeral pyres, thing too.

    Eric

    I don’t know rushdie’s background, but mark steyn noted that rushdie converted to Islam at one point, hoping to please the terrorists. They said, well, that is nice, but we are still going to kill you.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/228931/were-still-gonna-kill-you/mark-steyn

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  43. It’s fine not to like the writings of an author. Tastes differ. Awards may not impress. But for good or for ill, Rushdie is recognized as a top notch novelist, and he remains a fine prose stylist.

    What happened is that he wrote something that upset or insulted people. And literature should never, ever do that, apparently.

    If an author’s work upsets me, I don’t read it. But when leaders of a particular faith call for the death of that author, over a novel, well…that is what Western Civilization should oppose.

    What is it Voltaire supposedly said? “I disagree with you what you say, but I defend to my death your right to say it.”

    Some people quote it thusly, which I find highly appropriate in this context:

    “…Monsieur l’abbé, je déteste ce que vous écrivez, mais je donnerai ma vie pour que vous puissiez continuer à écrire…

    Just my opinion, of course.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  44. God you are stupid.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  45. Jharp, for all his anger and now-repressed potty language, never fails to amuse me:

    “…the next time one of your hacks says something stupid call them out on it….”

    Well, I know a hack of the DNC who says some not very smart things who gets called out on it whenever he posts here.

    I swear, jharp, you made that one too easy. You are such a Progressive Projectionist, you should be called “PP.” Such a tool.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  46. Aaron, why would I call you a nerd or whatever because you like OSC’s “Ender’s Game”?

    I liked the original novella on which it was based, but it is a popular and fine novel.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  47. Not to mention that the most common name being Mohammed is no evidence, none, that Islam is growing in the UK.

    Wrong.

    The Muslim population in Britain has grown by more than 500,000 to 2.4 million in just four years, according to official research collated for The Times.

    The population multiplied 10 times faster than the rest of society, the research by the Office for National Statistics reveals. In the same period the number of Christians in the country fell by more than 2 million.

    Experts said that the increase was attributable to immigration, a higher birthrate and conversions to Islam during the period of 2004-2008, when the data was gathered.

    The total number of Muslims in Great Britain:

    2004: 1,870,000

    2005: 2,017,000

    2006: 2,142,000

    2007: 2,327,000

    2008: 2,422,000

    The surge in the number of British boys named Mohammed stems from a growing Muslim community in Britain that the 2001 census put at 2.8 percent of the population, and a rise in Islamic pride.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  48. Dana – how very racist of you.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  49. Dana, he’ll just curse and spit. Well, less than the last couple of days, since Patterico told him to behave. But he will be rude. Numbers hurt his brain.

    Also, they must fit Teh Narrative.

    But thank you for posting the material above. Trolls like to make other people do the work, I realize, but I appreciated seeing what you posted.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  50. JD, you put punctuation in there. Doesn’t fit his angry minimalist style.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  51. …and this:

    But variations of the name Mohammed have been among the Top 10 baby names there for several years now. Analysts say it’s a result of Muslim immigration and high Muslim birth rates.

    “Ten percent of the British population now are from migrant backgrounds,” said Tim Finch, the head of migration for think tank IPPR. “It’s about 6 million people out of a population of around 60 million. That’s significantly more than it was. Britain is changing. If you have a sort of chocolate box image of Britain as a place of pubs and thatch cottages and everybody playing cricket, then maybe this doesn’t accord with that.”

    Muslims make up about 4.6 percent of the population in the United Kingdom.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  52. Maybe harpy could come introduce himself sometime.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  53. You right wingers ought to take note and the next time one of your hacks says something stupid call them out on it.

    You right left wingers ought to take note and the next time one of your hacks says something stupid call them out on it.

    I just did, jharp.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  54. Yep, Dana. But you and I know that he is just posting to be a jackass.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  55. Eric

    I meant a different eric. http://patterico.com/2010/10/31/variations-on-superman/#comment-714498

    that comment is his way of jokingly calling me a geek. and mind you, i am not terribly ashamed of my geekitude.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  56. jharp

    Btw, i have told Patterico i would leave it to him whether to fish your hateful comments out of the filters. let me suggest that if you can go through a whole comment without the f-word, you might not be blocked so often.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  57. Ah, Aaron. Our smiling, happy go lucky friend jharp just hates being told what to do.

    Eric Blair (dcced2)

  58. The troll is trying to feel important in the only way it knows how, by angering others and hoping for projective identification. You do not help it by feeding it, you make it dependent.

    ras (b7f440)

  59. “let me suggest that if you can go through a whole comment without the f-word, you might not be blocked so often.”

    Whatever.

    I’ll post what I feel best conveys what I want to say.

    If you don’t like it do what you have to do. It’s not my blog.

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  60. I know we’ve come a long way
    we’re changin’ day to day
    but tell me… where do the jihadists
    play-ay-ay-ay-ay-ayay

    ColonelHaiku (beb613)

  61. No, it is not your blog. You were banned previously because you are a vile cretin, with the social skills of a axe murderer. Brokesack harpie just cannot quit us.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  62. Who’s the big mature man, jharp? You are!

    Such a frightened little poseur.

    Eric Blair (dcced2)

  63. I have told jharp that the comments that went into moderation (automatically, because his language triggered the filter) do not deserve to be released.

    Additionally, if he can’t curb his tendencies to tell people to fuck themselves and so forth, he will join imdw in the “you are moderated and I’ll get to your comments when I get to them” filter.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  64. Q: What does the average Iranian man do when the missus withholds her affections nightly?

    A: Gotzbadeh

    ColonelHaiku (beb613)

  65. Whatever.

    I’ll post what I feel best conveys what I want to say.

    If you don’t like it do what you have to do. It’s not my blog.

    Comment by jharp —

    That’s very rude. All he asked was that you not use the F word so much. Just attempt to treat people fairly. You’re a guest, just like me.

    It isn’t asking much, considering how drastically you abuse your welcome. I wish everyone could try to find some basic common humanity once in a while. That “good man” ideal that Patterico gets busted on so much is really not that difficult to adopt in your life. You have to be mentally ill not to realize this helps everybody.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  66. Meanwhile, I’ll ask everyone to just lay off personal comments (merited or not) and try to discuss issues.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  67. I try not to make the political into the personal. Many on the Internet dislike this approach. However, it is my approach, and I would like my commenters to try to follow it as well.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  68. We come to the realization, that a) Stewart is not too smart, despite his degree from William & Mary, 2) he remembers where the Times Square bomber chose
    to park his car, and C) http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/

    ian cormac (c07a45)

  69. jharp

    Btw, i am still waiting for you to prove me a bigot. Can’t wait for it.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  70. “i am still waiting for you to prove me a bigot.”

    What is an “islamofascist”, El Rushbo?

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  71. AW – brokesack harpie and William Yelverton have proven themselves, objectively, to be bigots. they are simply projecting their own character flaws onto others.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  72. “How dare you oppose government run healthcare, you racist!”

    I missed this Aaron. Tell me, just who calls ObamaCare government run heath care? It’s not and you know it. And that would make you a liar.

    And good Christians don’t willfully lie and mislead.

    And even more preposterous is your claim that the democrats are going to lose because of.. … your words “Specious claims of bigotry”.

    You sir, are an idiot.

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  73. What is an “islamofascist”, El Rushbo?

    Comment by jharp

    Interestingly, and predictably, some hope to banish this term entirely. It’s one of those ideas the radical left wishes we weren’t able to think or speak.

    When Arab and Iranian dictatorships apply their religion to justify their fascism, that’s islamofascism. The term has been employed for decades, and expanded to ‘fascism with an Islamic face’ generally, such as the 9/11 attacks.

    It’s the direct enemy of neocons, so I guess it’s either a fiction or even the good guys, to some radicals. But it’s not a confusing concept if you’ve been paying attention.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  74. So…at 6:28 PM, the very polite Patterico writes:

    “…Meanwhile, I’ll ask everyone to just lay off personal comments (merited or not) and try to discuss issues….”

    And, at 6:41, the very eloquent jharp writes:

    “…You sir, are an idiot…”

    He. Just. Can’t. Help. It.

    The fact is, some people post here to debate. Some folks try to proselytize their points of view. Others listen.

    And some people post to insult and generally contend that being foul mouthed and abusive is toughness or honesty.

    This is Patterico’s blog. He is trying to be inclusive. How interesting to see how that principle has been abused. And by whom.

    Eric Blair (dcced2)

  75. jharp

    > What is an “islamofascist”, El Rushbo?

    Well, Limbaugh is not here (as far as I know) so I will answer.

    A person who subscribes to the fascist interpretation of Islam. If you believe in forcing women to cover their faces, stoning people to death for adultery, murdering innocent children in the name of your faith, pulling walls down on top of gay people, killing people who insult Mohammed (pedophilia be upon him), terrorism in the name of Islam, and so on, you are an islamofascist.

    You know, like Cat Stevens/Yusuf Islam.

    And? That is your whole argument?

    > Tell me, just who calls ObamaCare government run heath care?

    First, false argument. You forget that initially they proposed full control of health care by the government. But even now, yes, the government is going to take over the insurance industry, and make them public utilities akin to the electric company. The difference is there is zero justification for it.

    Aaron Worthing (f97997)

  76. And if that violated your rule, Patterico, you have my apology. It has been Troll-o-Rama here for some time. Including the weirdnesses from imdw.

    Eric Blair (dcced2)

  77. who calls ObamaCare government run heath care? It’s not and you know it. And that would make you a liar.

    You don’t think Obamacare’s provisions control healthcare in this country? My understand was that in 2013, it mandates that virtually all citizens purchase health insurance, and mandates how much we can pay for it, and mandates what it covers.

    It will therefore run how healthcare is funded in this country.

    It has provisions charging taxes and fees to makers of our medicine, too. IT has provisions directly affecting how doctors handle their businesses.

    What’s this got to do with Salman Rushdie and Yusuf Islam? You say Aaron can’t be a Real True Christian because of a summary of thousands of pages of regulation and legislation? Are you willing to argue about any defined topic?

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  78. “When Arab and Iranian dictatorships apply their religion to justify their fascism”

    Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy.

    You are a moron. Unbelievable. What are you, a freshman in college?

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  79. Peyton and Reggie are good. Damn good.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  80. You are a moron. Unbelievable. What are you, a freshman in college?

    Comment by jharp

    Why would you say I’m a moron?

    Nothing about your definition of fascism contradicted my comment. I know what fascism is. Do you know how Islamofascist countries operate? Do you understand the political aims of Al Qaida?

    It sounds like you don’t really understand them at all.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  81. Baathism and Nasserism, including the watered down version that Mubarak propounds certainly falls into
    the category of Arab fascism, the paramilitary ethos
    of Hezbollah, their sponsors in the Pasdaran, and
    the White Army of the Ilkwan, fall into the latter
    category

    ian cormac (c07a45)

  82. BTW, it appears you cut and pasted your definition from wikipedia without so much as reading my comment.

    Are you prepared to have a discussion about what islamofascism is? I know I explained it in my own words, so this is probably not showing up on wikipedia ‘correctly’.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  83. Hell, Mein Kampf is extremely popular in Islamofascist societies. Baathism is an amalgam of Stalinism and National Socialism.

    Wikipedia’s definition is a little lacking, in my opinion. Not a big surprise, but it’s not impressive to cut and paste wikipedia while being that dense about how it relates to my comment.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  84. Dustin – that is the only arrow in his shrinking shriveled wrinkled quiver.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  85. somewhere a Colonel
    laughs a giddy laugh knowing
    what tomorrow bring

    ColonelHaiku (beb613)

  86. be magnanimous
    in victory before they
    are made to taste blade

    ColonelHaiku (beb613)

  87. I hope to be a better winner than they are losers. If this week has been any indication, they are going to be horrible losers.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  88. Islamo-fascism: “Everything within the religion, nothing outside the religion, nothing against the religion.”

    pst314 (48ad7b)

  89. You have to laugh at the irony of holding a Rally to Restore Sanity…and then inviting Cat Stevens to speak at said rally!

    Lefties are basically clueless.

    Dave Surls (22ccf5)

  90. It’s going to be a challenge to be a ‘better winner’ and magnanimous, but I agree that’s a very important message.

    We’ll see who is presidential about these victories. Expressing the clear mandate they represent without sounding like Obama did “I won; The election is over, John; The seas shall descend;” is critical.

    And why shouldn’t a patriotic democrat be upset with GOP power?

    The favorite time for democrats to mention is Clinton’s presidency after 1994. They should love the results of divided government. Many of their pet programs aren’t possible when we run out of money, and it’s not like the left was getting anything tangible from the waste we’re seeing.

    I hope this election makes America a better place for democrats and their families, too. I expect a few trolls will be awfully hard to resist.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  91. “Tell me, just who calls ObamaCare government run heath care? It’s not and you know it.”

    jharp – Put those goal posts down. Fining and potentially imprisoning doctors for not following the dictates of the federal coordinating council on comparative effectiveness research sure sounds like government run healthcare to me, but you are probably not familiar with those provisions of health reform.

    You have also dodged describing why you think Bull Maher was wrong to be concerned about Islam. Cowboy up big guy, if you can.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  92. Colonel just kidding
    about magnanimity
    rub their nose in it

    ColonelHaiku (beb613)

  93. rub their nose in it

    First of all, where have you been? Comic relief has been needed, and I suck at poetry jokes.

    Second, they likely will be rubbing their own noses in it. Obama himself just reeks of sore loser. He is about to enter some of the hardest political times any leader has ever seen, after having it quite easy.

    But our nation is practically in a cold-civil-war right now. I want these democrats to put aside some of these social issues like bashing religions or worrying about evolution or gays in the Army or whether Bush lied. Our nation is out of money and it’s a dang emergency.

    Obviously I’m not hoping for Jharp’s vote. He’s not a voter anyway. But Obama turned off a lot of the center and I’ve learned from watching him what Palin et al had better avoid.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  94. Last warning, jharp. The next time I see a comment of yours that personally insults someone, into the filter you will go. Your comments will appear when they appear.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  95. Short jharp:

    “If everybody just understood how stupid they are, the world would be a much better place.”

    Thanks.

    Ag80 (743fd1)

  96. I am going to cancel out jharpie’s vote tomorrow. Better Half’s votes will cancel out timmeh. A big Colts win tonight is just icing on the cake.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  97. Patterico: I do appreciate your efforts to promote civility.

    What are you drinking tomorrow, in celebration of the election?

    Eric Blair (dcced2)

  98. “Fining and potentially imprisoning doctors for not following the dictates of the federal coordinating council on comparative effectiveness research sure sounds like government run healthcare to me”

    Comment by daleyrocks

    Last warning, jharp. The next time I see a comment of yours that personally insults someone, into the filter you will go. Your comments will appear when they appear.

    Comment by Patterico

    So I guess I’m supposed to say I am very sorry to have to post this daleyrocks but your statement is untruthful and it is against Christian principles to post untruths. Therefore that would be unChristian behaviour.

    I hope I didn’t offend you.

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  99. Tell me, just who calls ObamaCare government run heath care?

    First, false argument. You forget that initially they proposed full control of health care by the government. But even now, yes, the government is going to take over the insurance industry, and make them public utilities akin to the electric company.

    Comment by Aaron Worthing

    Flat out false. No one proposed full control of health care.

    And no, the government is not going to take over the insurance industry. No one has proposed anything even close.

    So sorry to have to call you out on these untruths but we wouldn’t want anyone to be deceived now, would we?

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  100. So sorry to have to call you out on these untruths but we wouldn’t want anyone to be deceived now, would we?

    Why, jharp, that’s just what I thought regarding your untruthful statement,

    Not to mention that the most common name being Mohammed is no evidence, none, that Islam is growing in the UK.

    You’re an ironic breed of cat.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  101. No one proposed full control of health care.

    You’ve moved the goal posts. The government is regulating large factors of Healthcare by 2013, under this legislation. You can’t say it’s a lie to call that ‘running’ the general field.

    I don’t have direct control over which of my pistons is going to fire next when I drive my car, either.

    You’re the one making the radical accusation of dishonesty, while taking the most obnoxiously narrow view. So if anything short of total control exists… if a bureaucrat doesn’t approve every stitch… a person can’t call this gov run healthcare without breaking their entire faith in Christianity?

    Do you see why this is unfair?

    Alanis Morrisette (b54cdc)

  102. jharp, the idea that you are calling others’ “out” on untruths is pretty amusing considering the spanking you’ve gotten.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  103. New lyrics to my Ironic song, SPQR.

    And yeah, I know it’s not really ironic so much as just dumb.

    Alanis Morrisette (b54cdc)

  104. Sebelius wants to regulate the speech of insurance companies, and punish them for telling the truth.

    Jharpie wants to talk about anything other than his demonstrated dishonesty, and the assbanging the left is going to take tomorrow.

    Running around with the goalposts is one of his skills.

    God you are stupid.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  105. And now this thread devolves into “nyah, nyah, you’re not a Christian but I can speak for Christians because I went to Sunday School and I know Christians are hypocrites.”

    Good Lord, if you want to say Christians are liars, just say so.

    Ag80 (743fd1)

  106. “My understand was that in 2013, it mandates that virtually all citizens purchase health insurance, and mandates how much we can pay for it”

    You are mistaken grasshopper.

    First, everyone gets emergency room treatment today. For free if you have no insurance or choose to blow your money on big screen TVs instead.

    Why you would want to continue these government “handouts” and not make folks who can pay actually pay there own way perplexes me.

    That’s all ObamaCare does. You don’t need to buy insurance. Simply pay the penalty. You’ll still get treated just as you will today. Or buy the insurance. A pre existing condition no longer excludes you. And get this. If you’d like, and what I plan to do, you can buy the same insurance that the Congress has. How sweet is that?

    Why you support the government teat sucking leeches to continue to get the freebies I just don’t get.

    And private insurers will be competing for everyone’s business. Your claim that the government will dictate rates is an untruth.

    Sorry if offended you.

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  107. jharp, Sibelius has already by her own actions shown that your claim that the government will not dictate rates to be false.

    Why are you begging for another spanking? Do you enjoy them?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  108. God you are stupid.

    Comment by JD

    Last warning, jharp. The next time I see a comment of yours that personally insults someone, into the filter you will go. Your comments will appear when they appear.

    Comment by Patterico

    Careful, Brother JD. I don’t want you to get into trouble.

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  109. I don’t want to insult the Troll Who Will Lose Tomorrow, but I ask you: was #98 mature?

    Yet he did accuse someone else of being a college student (which apparently is an insult). Given all the projection, you don’t suppose?…..

    Eric Blair (dcced2)

  110. They won’t dictate rates, they will just continue to impose polices, restrictions, and mandates that guarantee increased premiums. Jharpie is in full on sophistry land now.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  111. You ain’t my brother, jharpie. You are not a good enough person to clean the dirt off the sole of my brothers’ shoes.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  112. Oh, Electorally challenged jharp: JD was just parodying your tiresome repetitious attempts to insult others.

    Eric Blair (dcced2)

  113. Eric – precisely. He typed that at least 30 times. In the last couple days, and is now getting the vapors when the favor gets returned. What a coward. Brokesack harpy is pathetic.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  114. “Sebelius wants to regulate the speech of insurance companies, and punish them for telling the truth.”

    Really, Brother JD? Seriously?

    Would you be kind enough to provide a link? I’d like to share this with my prayer group.

    Sorry if this is too much trouble. I know those links can be hard to find. I think Sebelius must somehow stopping them from being divulged to the public.

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  115. You are mistaken grasshopper.

    First, everyone gets emergency room treatment today. For free if you have no insurance or choose to blow your money on big screen TVs instead.

    Why you would want to continue these government “handouts” and not make folks who can pay actually pay there own way perplexes me.

    That’s all ObamaCare does.

    That’s all?

    Wow. Why did they need so many pages just to say little ole’ that? Shucks… I’d almost think you’re trying to pull a fast one on me here, and they DID do other things with that legislation.

    Such as the specific aspects of this legislation I cited already, and you have not challenged, which prove this bill does regulate massively over many aspects of healthcare.

    Instead of telling me I’m wrong, just read the bill.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  116. Another spanking coming …

    SPQR (26be8b)

  117. I suspect a Percy Dovetonsils vibe, with a hat tip to Ernie Kovacs.

    Eric Blair (dcced2)

  118. Sorry if this is too much trouble. I know those links can be hard to find

    It’s really no trouble at all.

    Jharp, this is what you should already be aware of before trying to mock people on this topic.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  119. That’s all ObamaCare does. You don’t need to buy insurance. Simply pay the penalty. You’ll still get treated just as you will today. Or buy the insurance. A pre existing condition no longer excludes you. And get this. If you’d like, and what I plan to do, you can buy the same insurance that the Congress has. How sweet is that?

    Despite the sweetness, have you ever stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, a whole lot of people don’t really care for government intrusion in their lives, much less the takeover of a significant portion of the economy?

    What’s the joke? The efficiency of the DMV with the enforcement of the IRS? And I’m supposed to like it?

    Peddle your wares someplace else.

    Ag80 (743fd1)

  120. oooh, a Volokh link. Well done, SPQR. I’d award you points, but I’m afraid Jharp is below the weight limit.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  121. “So I guess I’m supposed to say I am very sorry to have to post this daleyrocks but your statement is untruthful and it is against Christian principles to post untruths.”

    jharp – First you would have to point out an untruth to prove your point. Go.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  122. True, Dustin, I don’t think I should claim trophy when I’m fighting down-class.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  123. While he said that rushdie should not be sentenced to death without a trial,he did not specify in what court.As a devout muslim he was refering to a trial conducted by a muslim cleric under shariah law.Under shariah law the death penalty is prescribed for insulting allah.No real change from his original statement.

    dunce (b89258)

  124. “You don’t need to buy insurance. Simply pay the penalty. You’ll still get treated just as you will today. Or buy the insurance.”

    jharp – Wrong. The government regulated the type of insurance I want to buy out of existence. They are mandating everybody have certain minimum basic coverage. Damn are you dumb.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  125. My fellow posters.

    ObamaCare will continue the regulation of the insurance industry.

    Just like today.

    The two biggest changes will be you can no longer be denied coverage due to a pre exiting condition and they can’t rescind your policy once you’ve become ill.

    Which one of those two should we repeal?

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  126. “Your claim that the government will dictate rates is an untruth.”

    jharp – The government is specifying a minimum loss ratio that insurers must incur or issue rebates to customers. Surely that is completely divorced from the prices insures charge for their policies. Damn are you dumb.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  127. No real change from his original statement.

    Comment by dunce

    What? You want to speak about the actual topic instead of letting Jharp change the subject to Obamacare?

    Are you nuts?

    Yeah, this was one of those ‘explanations’ that only clarifies how serious the monster was. He really meant to call for death. He really thinks that’s a legitimate solution to speech he doesn’t like. He really proves which rally needs sanity restored, and it’s not those guys worried about the deficit.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  128. Well, jharp, you’ve proven that you really don’t have a clue what was in the legislation.

    That makes you as smart as Nancy Pelosi.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  129. Yep. And as I remember: “…if you have insurance that you like, a doctor that you like, you get to keep them…

    Right?

    Eric Blair (dcced2)

  130. jharp – Back to the subject of the thread since you’ve proved you don’t know anything about health care reform.

    Why did you say Bill Maher was wrong to be concerned about the spread of Islam?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  131. jharp – Wrong. The government regulated the type of insurance I want to buy out of existence.

    Comment by daleyrocks

    Really? Which one was that Brother daleyrocks? And the fact ObamaCare hasn’t yet been fully implemented only further confuses the issue.

    I’m going to buy the same coverage our Congress gets.

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  132. Aren’t you going to acknowledge that you were wrong wrong wrong wrong, and have since proceeded to run around with the goalposts? How about all of the restrictions and mandates are jacking up premiums, or getting plans dropped? How about people having less choice because their coverages offered are now limited in coverage, and availability? Never mind. You have proven that you are an imbecile, and an aggressively dishonest one at that.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  133. I’m a total hypocrite on this, but we really need to stop feeding this troll. He is trying to shut down discussion of a really sore spot on Stewart’s rally. They condemn the Tea Party and generalize their religious beliefs, but here’s a stark example of a religious kook.

    JD would note you can tell what they are afraid of by their actions. On Jharp’s scoreboard, he’s racking up the points no matter how many links we post refuting whatever he is claiming.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  134. If you like your coverage, you can keep it. You are just going to have to pay a lot more for it. If it is still available. And if it is not taxed to the point where the employer no longer offers it. And if they are able to offer the same coverages. But you have demonstrated that you have little to no knowledge on yet another subject. SHOCKS.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  135. “The two biggest changes will be you can no longer be denied coverage due to a pre exiting condition”

    jharp – The only time you could be denied coverage under an existing policy for a preexisting condition was if you lied about it when you applied for coverage or there was an exclusion or exclusionary period. Look it up.

    The change now is that there will be no medical underwriting decisions by insurers choosing to participate in the market and no exclusions for preexisting conditions. Damn are you dumb.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  136. Jharpie supports cat Stevens extremist views.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  137. JD, or only so long as the government corruptly “waives” the law to allow your insurance coverage to continue …

    SPQR (26be8b)

  138. Jharp, this is what you should already be aware of before trying to mock people on this topic.

    Comment by Dustin — 11/1/2010

    Moonie Times? Sorry. Can’t do it. “Thou shalt not have false idols especially Moonies” Is that how it goes?

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  139. “…I’m going to buy the same coverage our Congress gets….”

    I guess, living in the mansion by the lake, the gentleman can afford it.

    Eric Blair (dcced2)

  140. jharp, I’ve already shown two of your most recent claims to – again – be false.

    Guess you’ll be standing up for awhile.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  141. “Really? Which one was that Brother daleyrocks? And the fact ObamaCare hasn’t yet been fully implemented only further confuses the issue.”

    jharp – Regarding which type of coverage has been regulated out of existence? Why high deductible cat insurance dummy. If course I was responding to your comment below about all ObamaCare does, which did not talk about now or when it was fully implemented, did it. Damn are you dumb.

    “That’s all ObamaCare does. You don’t need to buy insurance. Simply pay the penalty. You’ll still get treated just as you will today.”

    daleyrocks (940075)

  142. So, jharpie should be able to show us just where the linked article misquoted Sebelius’ words. He will not, because he cannot. Did HuffPo and Volokh and all of the other epode that wrote about this lie about her words too?

    JD (c8c1d2)

  143. jharp – Why did you say Bill Maher was wrong to be concerned about the spread of Islam?

    daleyrocks (940075)

  144. What’s a Moonie, jharp? Is that a reference to a religious group?

    You’re off topic because you lost the argument of the topic. You refuse to explain how my link is wrong… admitting you can’t.

    You lost this debate.

    You can’t stand to see Jon Stewart associated with Yusuf Islam? Me neither. Such a waste.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  145. “jharp – The only time you could be denied coverage under an existing policy for a preexisting condition was if you lied about it when you applied for coverage or there was an exclusion or exclusionary period. Look it up.”

    Comment by daleyrocks

    This is an untruth Brother daleyrocks. And it is misleading. And that is not very Christianlike.

    To claim under an existing policy no one is denied completely misses the point. Though I am sure your intent was not to mislead, unfortunately it does.

    People change jobs, go into business for themselves, lose their jobs, retire and have to change insurers for a host of reasons.

    And if you happen to get sick your next insurer can absolutely deny you coverage. I know. I have lived it. I have a deaf daughter.

    No longer. ObamaCare has banned this practice.

    Sorry if I hurt your feelings. I will pray for you.

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  146. Run around with the goalposts. Aggressively dishonest. Typical.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  147. “You can’t stand to see Jon Stewart associated with Yusuf Islam?”

    Are you joking?

    Why would I care if a comedian I have never met nor ever will associates with a musician that I have never met nor ever will.

    Why would I care who either one of them associates with?

    I don’t get it.

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  148. And if you happen to get sick your next insurer can absolutely deny you coverage. I know. I have lived it. I have a deaf daughter.

    You didn’t insure your own children?

    I’m sorry. No wonder you’re so angry now, but why bring this up in a thread about Yusuf Islam?

    You obviously didn’t pay much attention to the impact of the bill, since you keep contradicting yourself on its impact. I don’t think you should continue to ignore something this important. You should try harder to pay attention to this matter instead of being a partisan shill.

    I’m really sorry you failed your family, but you’re just too angry and unreasonable. This has nothing to do with other people’s religious views or Yusuf Islam at this rally.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  149. …if you have insurance that you like, a doctor that you like, you get to keep them…

    Let me add the rest as a Health Care Guy …

    … you can get to keep them so long as the MD wishes to keep accepting lower payments for his/her services, wishes to accept the mandates of care being legislated by U.S. Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF), and wishes to accept mounds and mounds of Medicaid, and Medicaid type plans, that will dominate the 2014 HCEX landscape.

    The legislation is a joke. It increases costs by giving away something to 30MM people. It takes away services from those in need to give it to those without need (Medicare reduction). It creates mounds of unnecessary and costly preventative care. It creates lots of paperwork (1099). It creates a bureaucracy which essentially will be a Death Panel b/c they will mandate what should/should not be covered. It increase taxes on those who already carry the water for 80% of the population’s gov.t benefits.

    Anyway, what do I know.

    Torquemada (a8a9b2)

  150. And If hear another imbecile talk about crowded ERs and how the uninsured flock there for care and the pity party I will puke.

    ERs are to hospitals what the Ground Beef special is to the supermarket. A way to get you in the door to make lotttssssssssssss of money.

    And frankly 90% of uninsured abuse the privilege of the ER but hospitals get $4 for an asprin and $400 for a CBC.

    Torquemada (a8a9b2)

  151. It’s in keeping with his oftstated view that single payer is the goal, ‘but we can’t get there in one
    fell swoop’ which raises a dilemma, if the GOP repeal the mandate, but keep the ban on preexisting condition, private insurance is effectively over,
    this resembles the puzzle box from “Hellraiser” more and more

    ian cormac (c07a45)

  152. [Yusuf Islam] told me in 1997, eight years after saying on TV that Rushdie should be lynched, that he was in favour of stoning women to death for adultery. He also reconfirmed his position on Rushdie. He set up the Islamia school in Brent, which is currently undergoing council-backed expansion. Its mission statement three years ago explicitly stated that its aim was to bring about the submission of the individual, the community and the world at large to Islam. For this aim it now receives state funding. Its an incubator of the most bonkers religious extremism and segregation, and is particularly strong on the public erasure of women. Why do people go to such lengths to ignore these aspects of Yusuf Islam’s character and philosophy?

    But this is a synopsis. It’s better to look at the source material (same link).

    Robertson: You don’t think that this man deserves to die?
    Y. Islam: Who, Salman Rushdie?
    Robertson: Yes.
    Y. Islam: Yes, yes.
    Robertson: And do you have a duty to be his executioner?
    Y. Islam: Uh, no, not necessarily, unless we were in an Islamic state and I was ordered by a judge or by the authority to carry out such an act – perhaps, yes.
    [Some minutes later, Robertson on the subject of a protest where an effigy of the author is to be burned]
    Robertson: Would you be part of that protest, Yusuf Islam, would you go to a demonstration where you knew that an effigy was going to be burned?
    Y. Islam: I would have hoped that it’d be the real thing.

    Stewart should apologize. This is equivalent to hosting Fred Phelps.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  153. You didn’t insure your own children?

    My children have never been uninsured.

    My failing my family? Let’s see. I have a nice house. No debt. My daughter is attending a Big Ten University in pharmacy.

    Call me when you get halfway there.

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  154. Ouch…slightly off-topic -he does refer to Yusuf Islam as a potted plant though! Ha.

    Low points from this year’s dishonest, vacuous campaign season.
    By Christopher Hitchens
    http://www.slate.com/id/2273158/

    excellent FUNNY quote!
    “Minority, Polled by Itself on Own Feelings, Reports Self-Pity on Fresh Topic”? Talk about acerbic and succinct.

    dudeabides (4f6c69)

  155. I guess, living in the mansion by the lake, the gentleman can afford it.

    Comment by Eric Blair

    Where’d you come up with this?

    I don’t live in a mansion nor by a lake. And have never claimed either.

    You are very weird.

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  156. Yet you are a hate filled angry lying liar what lies and tells lies about the lies he has told.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  157. jharp, I’m sorry you failed your daughter, but it’s pathetic that you use that as a reason to malign people’s faith. You said you knew the damage of denied coverage, and the proof is that your daughter is now deaf.

    Unless you’re being extremely dishonest in how you phrased that, it sounds like a horrible tragedy came from your refusal to pay out of pocket for treatment an insurer denied. And now you’re claiming to be debt free and relatively well off.

    I’m really sorry this failure happened. I am not mocking you. People make mistakes, and this is a major reason behind every nasty troll like you I’ve ever come across. This time, I believe you about your failure to provide for your family.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  158. If you tell me where you life, jharp, I can put you in touch with a rescue mission and also medical assistance for children of deadbeat parents.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  159. I did not take his argument by anecdote that way, Dustin. That does not make him any more honest, he has proven to be allergic to honesty. Plus, he is all butthurt over the beating the leftists will take tomorrow.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  160. “This is an untruth Brother daleyrocks.”

    jharp – It’s not my fault you are not smart enough to understand my comment. There is a difference between denial of coverage and an insurers decision not to issue a policy. Reread my comment to see if you can perhaps perceive which is which.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  161. JD, in this case, I disagree. Jharp held up his child’s disability and complained that she wasn’t covered.

    Still, I’m happy to help Jharp with information about where children can get medical assistance. And it’s plain Jharp is absolutely furious at those who believe in God or are better informed on Obamacare. His supreme moral authority is seeming like a compensation mechanism. He’s very upset about something.

    Whether it’s his personal problems taking care of his family or not, I did not want the government to control my choices regarding how I take care of my family. I’m not Jharp and I didn’t need this kind of help.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  162. Dustin – you maybe right, but I took it differently.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  163. “There is a difference between denial of coverage and an insurers decision not to issue a policy.”

    The result is exactly the same.

    “Sorry we will not accept you as an insured”

    “Sorry but we will not cover that treatment”

    And suppose your child has cancer or CP or autism. Then what are you gonna do?

    Grow up child. There is a whole world out there for you to discover. And some of it ain’t pretty.

    jharp (3bd2a1)

  164. I don’t mean to suggest Jharp is a bad parent, JD. And I don’t really know if he’s saying the deaf daughter is the fault of the insurance system before Obama saved us, or if he’s just bringing it up for no good reason.

    Whatever’s going on, this issue stirs the soul of this guy and he winds up exposing some deep seated problems with God.

    He’s saying this huge problem was solved, in the health care of his daughter, to prove Obamacare isn’t regulating health care? I know you’ll understand that I just can’t follow Jharp. Personally, I suspect he’s complaining about insurance not supporting his child because it affected his child’s health. And I’m really sorry if that’s the case… no mockery intended at all. It’s hard to move from that to noting this is a matter of personal responsibility without being cruel. But I did not need Obama to help me with this issue.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  165. Now, words with very specific meanings are being given new meanings by jharpie.

    JD (c8c1d2)

  166. And suppose your child has cancer or CP or autism. Then what are you gonna do?

    First things first: I will keep w far away from this child.

    Second, I’d pray. I think you can see why I need to mention this to you.

    Third, I’d get my kid the treatment needed. And I’d be grateful I’m an American.

    You say there’s a world out there that is not pretty. You’re right. Most of it isn’t nearly as free as America, and I know firsthand just how ugly the world gets when people pretend they can solve all problems by running as much of our lives as possible.

    I’ll take personal responsibility over your fear mongering any day. Kids all over the world would be very lucky to have the American health care system. Pretending Obamacare is going to save us from cancer is silly in the extreme.

    Did he create more doctors? I thought he was taxing medicine production and removing incentives to be a doctor. Your legislation made things worse.

    You’re bringing it up in this thread because you’re afraid of the actual topic, and angry at people who are religious.

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  167. You are mistaken grasshopper.

    First, everyone gets emergency room treatment today. For free if you have no insurance or choose to blow your money on big screen TVs instead.

    Incorrect. I’m not shocked you would think it free, but you do in fact get billed for the costs involved in an ER visit. That people are often unable or unwilling to pay does not alter the fact that they are billed.

    We’ll make this a short example:

    I break my leg. I get taken to the ER by ambulance (for the sake of this, we’ll pretend it’s a hospital with it’s own ambulance service, though such things are VERY rare now). I am seen by a nurse, vitals are taken, and a doctor comes to see me. I am x-rayed, given pain meds, the leg is set, cast, and further meds are given. Blood may or may not be drawn, and further tests may be performed to make sure something else in the leg – like important blood vessels – wasn’t broken as a result.

    I am billed for the following – Ambulance ride, ER room, the nurse, swabs and disposable equipment used to take my vitals, pain meds (twice), use of the x-ray machine, the film the x-ray comes on, the doctor’s time, the consult with orthopedics, the cast, any equipment used in the setting of the break, and any other tests they run and the lab fees for processing the tests.

    None of that is “free” if I’m not insured. They may cut me a discount if I’m paying out of pocket (because a cash payment is WAY easier for them than collecting from insurance, so often doctors and hospitals cut a bit off a bill as thanks), but I will be getting a bill from them, and if I refuse to pay they will take my ass through collections in order to get it.

    You are confusing the “You have to treat everyone, regardless of their ability to pay” with “if they can’t afford it, don’t bill them”. It is a felony to refuse of delay treatment because of a person’s lack of insurance, but that doesn’t mean they don’t want their money. It also doesn’t mean they aren’t entitled to their money. The people at a hospital worked hard to gather the needed skills, and they are providing a VERY valuable service – they deserve financial compensation.

    Why you would want to continue these government “handouts” and not make folks who can pay actually pay there own way perplexes me.

    You appear to be operating under the delusion that the forms of medical coverage the government provides in the form of Medicare and Medicaid are on par with private insurance. This is in fact false, and the only reasons hospitals can afford to accept those two types of insurance is because they overcharge private insurance.

    To be sure, the government reimbursement is LESS than the hospital’s costs. The insurance you get through work pays 20 dollars a pill for aspirin is because the government doesn’t even pay what the pills cost the Hospital. Same with everything else – those x-ray machines and CAT scans cost money to operate, even ignoring the cost to buy and install them in the first place.

    That’s all ObamaCare does. You don’t need to buy insurance. Simply pay the penalty. You’ll still get treated just as you will today. Or buy the insurance. A pre existing condition no longer excludes you. And get this. If you’d like, and what I plan to do, you can buy the same insurance that the Congress has. How sweet is that?

    Ah. Just pay the penalty, eh? So instead of being able to not get insurance for FREE, I can pay for the privilege. Gee, that sounds great.

    And Congress’s coverage isn’t any better than most insurance offered by employers. Well, what USED to be offered. See, apparently companies that offer coverage that’s too good will be penalized for doing so, and so coverage will be reduced.

    And private insurers will be competing for everyone’s business. Your claim that the government will dictate rates is an untruth.

    Incorrect, because it is illegal to buy insurance across state lines. If I like a plan offered by a company in Florida better than they offer in my state, I am not allowed to purchase it. So the pool of available plans is artificially limited by federal law, limiting competition.

    And the government WILL dictate rates, by limiting the amount insurance companies are a) allowed to charge and b) allowed to increase as the years go by. This will have the effect of driving these companies out of business. If costs increase 5%, but they are only allowed to raise rates 1.5%, they will lose money, and the only company that appears to enjoy spending more than it takes in is the Federal Government.

    Not to mention that even if I COULD buy a policy from the insurance company in Florida, that policy would likely fail to provide for certain policy items that my state requires (for example, all policies in California are required to provide for neonatal care, with no exceptions allowed). This means that even if I could buy the plan, I couldn’t because of state law.

    There is a reason that “remove state mandates” and “allow for interstate purchase of policies” were two items listed by the Republicans during the health care “debate”.

    A third item – tort reform – was also named, but the fact that the Dems receive an absolutely DISGUSTING amount of money from the trial lawyers association meant that was never going to happen, despite the fact that when tort reform was enacted in Texas, the cost of health care went down.

    Sorry if offended you.

    Son, your blatant ignorance about a law that you support offends me in way I can not even begin to describe.

    The Departed (d027b8)

  168. “The result is exactly the same.”

    jharp – Wrong. Damn are you dumb. Try reading again, moron. Maybe use a dictionary or insurance glossary.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  169. I am not a believing man, but I would not disrespect those who are any more than I would spit in my mother’s face. Leave people’s religions alone.

    nk (db4a41)

  170. jharp is back in moderation. Most of his comments are there anyway, as he punctuates almost every comment with the f word. His comments will be released when they are appropriate and when I have time.

    Patterico (c218bd)

  171. guys i can completely understand your frustration with jharp, but don’t insult him back, however richly he deserves it. i won’t narc on any specific person, but please regulate yourselves so patterico doesn’t have to.

    And i am sure patterico understands that all of this is being instigated by jharp, who can’t seem to go through a single post without calling everyone who disagrees stupid.

    “Agree with me, stupid!” how persuasive.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  172. We also shouldn’t be surprised since so many left loon rallies have their palestinian support jihad wackos in full tow, and their michael moore foreign minutemen, and the left gets a big thrill up their leg that they actually have someone or something in their midst that will kill to give them power – to fight the “enemies of the establishment” who do things as or to the establishment that the fruit loops disagree with.
    Yeah, no problem for the left – they are brave, they have warriors, they have excitement and the possibility of blood and death, gee that’s all sexy for them now, as their movers and shakers and ‘wiccans’ break out the goth and vampire kits.
    It also keeps them in a friendly little safe cocoon, where the islamowhacks can see they are “supporting islam and submitting appropriately.
    That way the chicken hearted left lib loons can sweepy like babies at night and not worry about permanently losing their head a second time, in a way that breaches the intellectual and descends to the physical.

    SiliconDoc (7ba52b)

  173. That should be the Dem campaign slogan. Vote for us you stupid bitter clinger racists.

    JD (77596e)

  174. Well, Patterico, you made the effort to make things more open and less restrictive. It’s not your fault if some of the previously banned/moderated people act out. In some ways, I think they want to be banned or moderated—like that makes them more important or powerful in some fashion.

    In any event, I appreciate your efforts. But no good deed goes unpunished, like the saying goes.

    As for the topic of the thread, it’s the Flexible Yardstick™ once again. A Christian who had defended murdering a person because of a book they wrote would not be permitted on stage (no matter what kind of songs he or she had written). But a Muslim who defends the practice (and notice how Mr. Stevens tries to link Christian belief systems as a defense of murder).

    Sure, there are Christians who say awful things. And their are other Christians who criticize them for doing so. I want to hear more Muslims (and yes, there are some—just not Cat Stevens) deplore fatwas.

    But there is a difference. Which is the lie that is behind our Western Intellectual so-called moral equivalence that we claim to like.

    Eric Blair (dcced2)

  175. Hey I love “Peace Train” too!

    The Emperor (9f7f60)

  176. Harpy tells us all how cruel the world can be, yet fails to notice his own part in making it seem that way. Go scream at your dog (poor dog!), pound your head in the wall, whatever it takes – and leave us out of it.

    Dmac (ad2c6a)

  177. If a religion is a threat to the values of the society in which I live, I will criticize it all day long. The followers of that religion, who may practice it with various degrees of adherence or credulity, are another matter.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  178. Everyone including myself maintains a belief system to some extent that is imperfect reflection of reality.

    However, I’m always puzzled about people whose political positions are based on their beliefs about the world – when those beliefs are flat out factually false and they know it. But nothing changes in their ideology.

    I just can’t wrap my mind around that. Its not how I think.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  179. #

    If a religion is a threat to the values of the society in which I live, I will criticize it all day long. The followers of that religion, who may practice it with various degrees of adherence or credulity, are another matter.

    Comment by daleyrocks — 11/2/2010 @ 7:16 am

    Well said, Daleyrocks. Evil has to be condemned.

    The Emperor (9f7f60)

  180. You guys spend an entire evening yelling at a dissenter with a bad attitude and not one of you addresses the intentional bigoted and incendiary comments Aaron made toward Mohammed? None of you called him out on his ridiculous and centuries old slander toward Mohammed? It would like calling Mary a slut because she was pregnant before she got married! It’s just meant to attack someone else’s sky fairy because you believe in a different one.

    I’m just gonna assume that Aaron, as he is unaware of most non-right wing talking points, is not aware that in an age where people lived to be 40, marriages of older, richer men to 14 year olds weren’t that exceptional (geez, read any history of European practices from the 16th century…poor Catherine the Great; poor Marie Antoinette, etc.). Just a disgusting thing to write about another mythology.

    As for jdizzle, good to know you are voting for a lobbyist to the US Senate. But, in all your canceling out, you forgot that my “better half” (which makes her roughly 6 standard deviations of learning, grace, and intelligence better than you) will still be voting. +1 for me.

    Yay! A rare win for the Dems today.

    PS Aaron, you should be ashamed of yourself for deliberating insulting a billion’s people’s faith and then playing the victim the rest of the thread.

    timb (449046)

  181. What is this snoop d o double g affectation you put on, creepy stalkerish person? Timmah is all butthurt, and it is only 10:45. Today is gonna get ugly. Lobbyists are only slightly less evil than plaintiff lawyers.

    If you all would like some amusing commercials, take a look at all of the ads run on behalf of Baron Hill, which rarely mention his name, certainly not his party, and pretty much just tell you how evil his opponent is. The DCCC spent a crap load trying to vilify Hill’s opponent.

    JD (77596e)

  182. None of you called him out on his ridiculous and centuries old slander toward Mohammed?

    It isn’t slander if it’s true.

    The Departed (d027b8)

  183. Teh Departed – timmah doesn’t let things like that get in the way of a good spleen vent.

    JD (77596e)

  184. PS Aaron, you should be ashamed of yourself for deliberating insulting a billion’s people’s faith and then playing the victim the rest of the thread.

    Comment by timb — 11/2/2010 @ 7:38 am

    Timb, what in your own opinion would qualify for pedophilia?

    The Emperor (9f7f60)

  185. Timb

    > the intentional bigoted and incendiary comments Aaron made toward Mohammed?

    Lol, bigoted? How so? What specifically is bigoted about what I wrote? Everything I wrote is fact-based.

    But I do cop toward it being incendiary. I will show mohammed respect when people like Yusuf Islam show freedom of expression respect. Because that is as sacred to me as their prophet.

    > centuries old slander toward Mohammed?

    Slander? I have asked dozens of Muslims, and not a single on has ever even denied it. They just denied it was wrong.

    > It would like calling Mary a slut because she was pregnant before she got married!

    Except the biblical story says specifically the conception was done by God. But even saying it unfairly, I wouldn’t get all that riled up about it. And I wouldn’t call it bigoted, just a difference of interpretation.

    > I’m just gonna assume that Aaron, as he is unaware of most non-right wing talking points, is not aware that in an age where people lived to be 40, marriages of older, richer men to 14 year olds weren’t that exceptional

    First, that was pretty horrible, too. I mean if we are going to go with the “people in my culture did bad things, so I can’t criticize anyone else, ever” approach, then I guess we forfeit the right to complaint about outright rape and slavery, given America’s history with that. So rather than looking back at history as something to learn from, and to avoid repeating, you are saying, “don’t you dare learn from history.” Mmmmkay.

    Second, what about nine? How common was that? And mind you, not just marriage but consummation.

    I mean just read the facts in Kennedy v. Louisiana, discussing the rape of an 8 year old girl, to understand how completely f—ed that is.

    http://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=12878561891643794711&q=kennedy+v.+Louisiana&hl=en&as_sdt=80000000000003

    A person is free to believe what they want, but that right there is why I could never be a muslim. I cannot follow a God who would allow his prophet to do that.

    > Aaron, you should be ashamed of yourself for deliberating insulting a billion’s people’s faith and then playing the victim the rest of the thread.

    In this thread? Huh? The closest I came is challenging the last person who called me a bigot to prove their claims. And I issue the same challenge to you.

    Aaron Worthing (e7d72e)

  186. It would like calling Mary a slut because she was pregnant before she got married!

    Though she also got pregnant before she had sex, which I understand to be a requirement to actually be a slut.

    The Departed (d027b8)

  187. Remember that timb and his ilk can insult Christians all they like, but you better not insult Mohammad or timb will bring his fatwa here!

    SPQR (26be8b)

  188. It would like calling Mary a slut because she was pregnant before she got married!

    The difference is that no one would call for your head on a platter if you called Mary a slut. But draw a picture of Mohammad and you have mayhem and bloodshed. Big difference.

    The Emperor (9f7f60)

  189. First and foremost, timmah is a ginormous p-ssy when it comes to critizing anything regarding Islam. But timmah does not seem to understand that when they take over, p-ssies like him will be among the first to lose their heads. They don’t look upon quislings too kindly in their native lands, timmah.

    Dmac (ad2c6a)

  190. You know, I am still waiting for Cat Stevens and company to condemn this as against Islam:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/251765/iraqs-christians-still-under-siege-nina-shea

    But strangely, CAIR and their ilk are silent on this kind of thing.

    Or has someone found a statement from them?

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  191. CAIR will shortly issue a statement decrying all of the hate crimes committed in this nation against Muslims. Without a shread of evidence, of course.

    Dmac (ad2c6a)

  192. Dmac, they laugh at our tendencies toward cultural suicide, I think.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  193. Which is just one of the many reasons why the elections today are so important, Eric – but you already knew that.

    Dmac (ad2c6a)

  194. Hey, Dmac, remember the 80s, when the Left kept saying that Andropov was a “reasonable” Soviet leader because he drank whiskey and liked jazz…but Reagan was a fundamentalist ignorant warmonger?

    Same tune, different decade.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  195. Hey, I like “Peace Train,” too, but principles are principles. Until and unless the man apologizes and denounces islamofascism, at the very least he should be shunned from polite society.

    Oh, DUDE, come ON!!!

    The man’s OWN ATTITUDES utterly and completely REFUTE the song he wrote years before:

    “…Why must we go on hating, why can’t we live in bliss…”

    Well, Cat, simply put — BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE… **YOU**.

    I have no respect for the song because it’s idealistic claptrap with no grasp of reality, and his conversion to an ideology utterly inimical to the concepts it espouses just shows how utterly worthless the song, and its ideals, ARE.

    “If Man wants to be top dog – or even a respected neighbor – he’ll have to fight for
    it. Beat the plowshares back into swords; the other was a maiden aunt’s fancy.”

    – R. A. Heinlein –

    The only song with a greater degree of moronic idealism and sheer stupidity, offhand, is “Imagine“, which basically describes one of the most starkly clear variations on nihilistic Hell possible, all the while masquerading as a Utopia for total and utter fools:

    “…Nothing to kill or die for…”

    ?? — — — REALLY — — ??

    Someone wants to destroy that magnificent artwork?
    Eh, who cares?

    Your friends are being threatened by thugs with injury or death?
    Eh, who cares?

    Someone wants to rape your wife or daughter?
    Eh, who cares?

    “Nothing to kill or die for” means you can’t care about ANYTHING.

    No joy, no passion, no heart.

    You are soul-dead — heartless… humorless…. lifeless.

    That’s a very sophisticated version of HELL, my friends.

    IgotBupkis (9eeb86)


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