Patterico's Pontifications

9/29/2016

USA Today Issues Very Rare Presidential Anti-Endorsement: Trump Is Unfit to Be President

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:38 pm

It’s remarkable because they never endorse:

In the 34-year history of USA TODAY, the Editorial Board has never taken sides in the presidential race. Instead, we’ve expressed opinions about the major issues and haven’t presumed to tell our readers, who have a variety of priorities and values, which choice is best for them. Because every presidential race is different, we revisit our no-endorsement policy every four years. We’ve never seen reason to alter our approach. Until now.

This year, the choice isn’t between two capable major party nominees who happen to have significant ideological differences. This year, one of the candidates — Republican nominee Donald Trump — is, by unanimous consensus of the Editorial Board, unfit for the presidency.

From the day he declared his candidacy 15 months ago through this week’s first presidential debate, Trump has demonstrated repeatedly that he lacks the temperament, knowledge, steadiness and honesty that America needs from its presidents.

Whether through indifference or ignorance, Trump has betrayed fundamental commitments made by all presidents since the end of World War II. These commitments include unwavering support for NATO allies, steadfast opposition to Russian aggression, and the absolute certainty that the United States will make good on its debts. He has expressed troubling admiration for authoritarian leaders and scant regard for constitutional protections.

I have no quarrel at all with their conclusion, but I don’t support all of their reasoning. For example: why do we need to bother with NATO? There is no more Soviet Union. Why do we need foreign entanglements, when no less a personage than George Washington warned us against that very danger? And as for “the absolute certainty that the United States will make good on its debts” — wake up and smell the deficit, USA Today Editorial Board! It’s virtually a certainty that the United States won’t make good on its debts. We’re over $19.5 trillion in the hole with absolutely no plan to do anything other than run up huge deficits as far as the eye can see. This is a central reason someone is unfit?

No. There is a host of reasons that actually do make Trump unfit, and the piece touches on some of them. Trump’s penchant for dishonesty is so over-the-top and insane that he makes Hillary Clinton look like a fibbing nine-year-old rather than the habitual lying cretin we all know her to be. He once pretended to be a pro-Trump publicist named John Miller, and every person with ears and a brain knows it was him — yet he denied, in 2016, that it was him. I can’t get over that to this day. (And no debate moderator has ever called him on it!) He is carelessly cruel to people on a consistent basis. He is a whiner and a coward. He is a man who avoided military service based on a made up, bullshit medical excuse, and then mocked the service of a man, John McCain, whose story of courage would make anyone who heard it want to punch a lifesized cutout of Donald Trump in the mouth. Trump is everything that is wrong with this country. Indeed, on any objective basis, Donald Trump is a worse human being than Hillary Clinton, and that’s saying something. It is only the fact that her policies are nominally far worse for the country (although who knows what the lying Trump’s real polices really are) that prevents a vote for her from being the obvious choice. If my vote came down to nothing more than which person is a more moral human being, I would easily cast my vote for the lying, power-hungry, wretched old harpy.

And yet our tendency for our partisan reflexes to kick in has blinded Republicans to these problems of Trump’s. Trump’s comment about shooting someone on Fifth Avenue was supposed to be a kind of joke, but I believe it’s no longer a joke. Politics is the best profession for a con man — just ask Brett Kimberlin, who has clothed his cons in the garb of partisan politics for years — because no other area turns off the rational part of the brain like politics. I truly believe, with all my heart and soul, that Donald Trump could literally murder someone tomorrow, and if it were not captured on video, no matter the evidence, millions would still support him. “Well, the Clintons have murdered people, probably a lot more people!” the Trumpers would say. You know they would. They really, actually would.

I recently ran a poll, which was somewhat tongue in cheek to be sure, asking people whether they would vote for the worst mass murderer in history (Chairman Mao) or Hillary Clinton, given that binary choice. The small sample reflected the poll’s lack of seriousness, but it still is remarkable that Chairman Mao won a solid majority of votes, 61% to 39%.

mao-hillary-poll

If murdering people, or lying on an insane and pathological scale, aren’t going to change people’s minds about Trump, the opinion of a few editorial writers at a national newspaper sure won’t. It’s still a noteworthy piece and deserves your time.

UPDATE: These South Park clips sum it all up.

213 Responses to “USA Today Issues Very Rare Presidential Anti-Endorsement: Trump Is Unfit to Be President”

  1. Cue happyfeet calling me Ivy League trash.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  2. You should be cheering, Patterico. Your candidate won!

    champ (56cd04)

  3. Poor baby lost the rigged debate.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  4. You should be cheering, Patterico. Your candidate won!

    What an insightful comment! Not at all stupid!

    Patterico (bcf524)

  5. @patterico:
    Think about it a little.

    champ (56cd04)

  6. Your points are so subtle, and so understated, “champ,” that I’m afraid I can’t possibly follow the logic.

    But I feel certain you will explain it.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  7. What is it, exactly, that you are blogging about? Twenty years of progtard control of the Supreme Court? More of Hairy Reid control of the Senate? Get over yourself!

    champ (56cd04)

  8. Indeed, on any objective basis, Donald Trump is a worse human being than Hillary Clinton, and that’s saying something.

    What are you smoking?

    Clinton tried to frame White House travel office head Billy Dale. She tried to get an innocent man thrown in jail. I don’t know of anything Trump has done that approaches that.

    Under her watch the State Dept. allowed the sale of much of the nation’s uranium to a Russian company right after they paid Bill a huge speaking fee. I don’t know of anything Trump has done that approaches that.

    She has according to at least one book abused a whole bunch of women who posed a threat to her hubby.

    There’s Whitewater/Castle Grande.

    Her pay for play arrangements during her tenure at State involving soliciting Clinton foundation contributions from people wanting favors.

    What has Trump done that approaches that stuff?

    You’re off the deep end.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  9. a little perspective, is always helpful

    https://twitter.com/NumbersMuncher/status/781646991247802368/photo/1

    this was the publication that banned glenn reynolds because crimethink right?

    narciso (d1f714)

  10. champ, I will give you $100 for each sentence in my post that advocates turning over control of the Senate to Democrats. It’s the easiest money you ever made. Go! Run! Find! Report back!

    Patterico (bcf524)

  11. I didn’t even mention Benghazi.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  12. champ, I will give you $100 for each sentence in my post that advocates turning over control of the Senate to Democrats. It’s the easiest money you ever made. Go! Run! Find! Report back!

    Okay he’s half wrong.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  13. I read that editorial, and a lot of it is lies and distortions that Patterico criticized already.

    And, yeah, they suspended Glenn Reynolds for a month too.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  14. Gerald A,

    I am not going to defend Hillary Clinton.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  15. Okay he’s half wrong.

    He should have thought about the other half before he voted for Trump in the primary.

    (Educated guess.)

    Patterico (bcf524)

  16. it’s not as bad as carlos slim’s apologia, which are procopian in his incarnation, but it’s makes one wince,

    narciso (d1f714)

  17. I am not going to defend Hillary Clinton.

    Patterico (bcf524) — 9/29/2016 @ 7:58 pm

    Straw man. I am challenging the claim that Trump’s objectively a worse human being than Clinton. No.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  18. “champ, I will give you $100 for each sentence in my post that advocates turning over control of the Senate to Democrats. It’s the easiest money you ever made. Go! Run! Find! Report back!”

    Unfortuantely, that is what will happen if our candidate wins…

    champ (56cd04)

  19. I’ll go through their reasons paragraph by paragraph.

    He is erratic. Trump has been on so many sides of so many issues that attempting to assess his policy positions is like shooting at a moving target. A list prepared by NBC details 124 shifts by Trump on 20 major issues since shortly before he entered the race. He simply spouts slogans and outcomes (he’d replace Obamacare with “something terrific”) without any credible explanations of how he’d achieve them.

    Rating: zero Pinocchios. That’s Trump to a “T.”

    Patterico (bcf524)

  20. He is ill-equipped to be commander in chief. Trump’s foreign policy pronouncements typically range from uninformed to incoherent. It’s not just Democrats who say this. Scores of Republican national security leaders have signed an extraordinary open letter calling Trump’s foreign policy vision “wildly inconsistent and unmoored in principle.” In a Wall Street Journal column this month, Robert Gates, the highly respected former Defense secretary who served presidents of both parties over a half-century, described Trump as “beyond repair.”

    Analysis: True.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  21. Such a coinkydink!

    HRC is getting destroyed on the question of “fitness.” On everything else, possibly excepting lies about Bengahzi) her campaign can reliably point to how DJT is every bit as bad, or worse. This question of fitness is loaded as can be. That it has actually stuck so well to her is nuclear bomb exploding bad. She haaaaaaaas to put it back on DJT.

    Boom! Here comes the USAT to the rescue! Breaking all precedent, they give her the verbiage she needs from a credible (to the willfully ignorant voters) source.

    Also, DJT’s entire campaign rested upon his ability to be seen as “presidential.” It;s the hardest hurdle for anyone to overcome. Is the candidate legitimate? Well, after this last debate, when he held his delusional self almost fully in check, he is every bit as legit as Romney ever was. Ruh roh! All hands on the HRC deck!!!! General Quarters!!!! Clang! Clang! Clang! Clang!!!!!!

    They can not allow this metamorphosis to go on. They MUST squash him NOW. If not, the looniest loony major nominee is going to beat her.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  22. He traffics in prejudice. From the very beginning, Trump has built his campaign on appeals to bigotry and xenophobia, whipping up resentment against Mexicans, Muslims and migrants. His proposals for mass deportations and religious tests are unworkable and contrary to America’s ideals.

    Trump has stirred racist sentiments in ways that can’t be erased by his belated and clumsy outreach to African Americans. His attacks on an Indiana-born federal judge of Mexican heritage fit “the textbook definition of a racist comment,” according to House Speaker Paul Ryan, the highest-ranking elected official in the Republican Party. And for five years, Trump fanned the absurd “birther” movement that falsely questioned the legitimacy of the nation’s first black president.

    I don’t sign onto this. Trump clearly wants to appeal to bigots — that’s why he would not condemn David Duke to Jake Tapper, for example. But wanting to deport people here illegally is not racism. I’ll give them at best 1/2 credit here.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  23. His business career is checkered. Trump has built his candidacy on his achievements as a real estate developer and entrepreneur. It’s a shaky scaffold, starting with a 1973 Justice Department suit against Trump and his father for systematically discriminating against blacks in housing rentals. (The Trumps fought the suit but later settled on terms that were viewed as a government victory.) Trump’s companies have had some spectacular financial successes, but this track record is marred by six bankruptcy filings, apparent misuse of the family’s charitable foundation, and allegations by Trump University customers of fraud. A series of investigative articles published by the USA TODAY Network found that Trump has been involved in thousands of lawsuits over the past three decades, including at least 60 that involved small businesses and contract employees who said they were stiffed. So much for being a champion of the little guy.

    Yup. Not to mention, he hides his income taxes and lies about the extent of his wealth.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  24. I guess they were getting to that next:

    He isn’t leveling with the American people. Is Trump as rich as he says? No one knows, in part because, alone among major party presidential candidates for the past four decades, he refuses to release his tax returns. Nor do we know whether he has paid his fair share of taxes, or the extent of his foreign financial entanglements.

    Absolutely true.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  25. bob gates, perhaps if he had shown a moment of principle, in public during his tenure in obama’s pentagon, but he was all three chimps, until it came time to cash in, then he was cassandra,

    narciso (d1f714)

  26. He speaks recklessly. In the days after the Republican convention, Trump invited Russian hackers to interfere with an American election by releasing Hillary Clinton’s emails, and he raised the prospect of “Second Amendment people” preventing the Democratic nominee from appointing liberal justices. It’s hard to imagine two more irresponsible statements from one presidential candidate.

    It’s easy to imagine, actually — coming from him.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  27. apparent misuse of the family’s charitable foundation

    Nope, can’t have that in anyone fit to President. Wasn’t it awful that Trump and his wife made $57 million during his tenure as Secretary of State, much of it from foreign governments and large corporations that had business with his department?

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  28. He has coarsened the national dialogue. Did you ever imagine that a presidential candidate would discuss the size of his genitalia during a nationally televised Republican debate? Neither did we. Did you ever imagine a presidential candidate, one who avoided service in the military, would criticize Gold Star parents who lost a son in Iraq? Neither did we. Did you ever imagine you’d see a presidential candidate mock a disabled reporter? Neither did we. Trump’s inability or unwillingness to ignore criticism raises the specter of a president who, like Richard Nixon, would create enemies’ lists and be consumed with getting even with his critics.

    LBJ was a crude asshole, but at least he kept most of that behind closed doors. Trump is no-holds-barred asshole, all the time. The ad from Hillary showing kids watching him on TV and soaking it all in was effective because this is true.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  29. actually they had already done, this administration has left the backdoor open, and has blamed everyone from the north koreans to the easter bunny, for their lack of due diligence,

    narciso (d1f714)

  30. Actually Trump’s tax returns wouldn’t enable us to determine how wealthy he is. That info just isn’t in a tax return. If he happened to have certain events, primarily realized capital gains, it could yield some insights, but we still wouldn’t really know what he’s worth.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  31. He’s a serial liar. Although polls show that Clinton is considered less honest and trustworthy than Trump, it’s not even a close contest. Trump is in a league of his own when it comes to the quality and quantity of his misstatements. When confronted with a falsehood, such as his assertion that he was always against the Iraq War, Trump’s reaction is to use the Big Lie technique of repeating it so often that people begin to believe it.

    We are not unmindful of the issues that Trump’s campaign has exploited: the disappearance of working-class jobs; excessive political correctness; the direction of the Supreme Court; urban unrest and street violence; the rise of the Islamic State terrorist group; gridlock in Washington and the influence of moneyed interests. All are legitimate sources of concern.

    When Hillary Clinton pretends to be her own publicist, and then denies it on national television when EVERYONE KNOWS IT WAS HER, you can get back to me about how she’s more dishonest.

    I will never, ever, ever, ever get over the John Miller thing. That is creepy to the nth degree.

    So there you have it. A lot of solid stuff in USA Today’s piece, it turns out.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  32. In the days after the Republican convention, Trump invited Russian hackers to interfere with an American election by releasing Hillary Clinton’s emails,

    Right, that’s exactly what happened. Well, there was this guy Patterico who said this:

    “Although his comments were nowhere near as irresponsible as the decisions made by the former Secretary of State that put these emails at risk.

    The left flipped out about this so much that they were even talking about how Trump should be charged with a felony for musing about Russia and the emails. But unless Stupidity in the First Degree is an actual felony, they should be talking about charging the candidate who actually committed a crime with respect to these emails.”

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  33. Do you not understand how you opposition to Trump elevates !Hillary?

    champ (56cd04)

  34. Actually Trump’s tax returns wouldn’t enable us to determine how wealthy he is. That info just isn’t in a tax return.

    It would provide some information.

    He is hiding something. If you believe the audit excuse, you a chump sucka. He’s hiding something.

    He’s hiding something. He is! He has to be. He’s hiding something.

    (Talking in Trump language so the Trumpers can follow me.)

    Patterico (bcf524)

  35. she doesn’t need to she has the entire presscorp as her stenographer, chozick, nicholas, landler et al,

    narciso (d1f714)

  36. he raised the prospect of “Second Amendment people” preventing the Democratic nominee from appointing liberal justices.

    What a sinister, creepy statement! Almost up there with “We’re going to take things away from you and give them to other people for the common good.”

    Well, there was this guy Patterico who said, “Dumbest nontroversy ever.”

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  37. Do you not understand how you opposition to Trump elevates !Hillary?

    No. Please explain it to me, champ. Use the word “binary” for bonus points. If someone finally patiently explains it to me, preferably repeatedly and in a condescending tone, maybe I’ll get it. But don’t forget the repetition. And the condescension. And the repetition. And the condescension.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  38. is this like the times, where taranto has often pointed out, they don’t read their own paper,

    narciso (d1f714)

  39. In LBJ’s years, politicians were allowed (by the press) to say whatever they wanted behind closed doors.
    Back then an agreement that certain things were “off the record” was adhered to as a matter of honor.
    Public statements fair game, those behind closed doors not so much.

    Trump knows there is no such thing like honor anymore towards off the record statements by Republicans so he lets it fly.

    Hilary is treated with kid gloves and her statements and actions are indeed “off the record” (like her email)

    steveg (5508fb)

  40. Well, there was this guy Patterico who said, “Dumbest nontroversy ever.”

    Correct. Ditto with the Russian hackers bit. That’s why I said I can easily imagine worse. Coming out of Trump’s mouth.

    Here, and with the RACISMSSSSS argument, they fall flat.

    There’s far more in there that is solid though.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  41. Worse human being than Hillary?!? Where’s the trail of bodies of his political opponents? Where are the state secrets he compromised on his illegal homebrew server? Where are all the people he appointed to positions of power because of their donations to his phony foundation?

    PaddyO' (a8e631)

  42. He’s 35, a natural born citizen, and has resided stateside all his life. According to the Constitution he’s qualified.

    I notice they didn’t have an issue with Obama’s 2 years of experience when taking the job.

    NJRob (26e665)

  43. I can’t stand trump. But you lost me a little with this one. Objectively Hillary is evil, trump merely bad! A sentence I never thought that I would write….

    Carlos (fb2d03)

  44. I missed seeing LGF tank. I guess it must have looked something like this?

    fred-2 (ce04f3)

  45. UPDATE: These South Park clips sum it all up.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  46. This once great site is going the way of Little Green Footballs and Hot Gay Air! You can smell the cuck in the air!

    PaddyO' (a8e631)

  47. as the buzzard feed piece pointed out, the administration has covered up the hacking for months, much like their patron marisa mayer, has done at yahoo, opposite numbers at gsa, any number of installations,

    narciso (d1f714)

  48. I can’t stand trump. But you lost me a little with this one. Objectively Hillary is evil, trump merely bad! A sentence I never thought that I would write….

    Carlos (fb2d03) — 9/29/2016 @ 8:15 pm

    A voice of sanity.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  49. well we’ve dubbed tepid, more balloon juice, that site went pearshaped quickly,

    narciso (d1f714)

  50. If somehow fate suddenly reversed every sin of each candidate, such that Trump’s sins became Hillary’s and Hillary’s became Trump’s, y’all would ignore Trump’s homebrew server and freak out over Hillary’s impersonation of a publicist and denial of same. Right on down the line. It’s how partisan politics works. It rots the brain. Sad!

    Patterico (bcf524)

  51. Do you not understand how you opposition to Trump elevates !Hillary?

    OK, explain it to me, I’m clueless.

    champ (56cd04)

  52. we’re in enough of a bizarro/bearded spock universe, where red queen is jessica chastain’s character and trump in a dothraki overlord,

    narciso (d1f714)

  53. See, the thing is an editorial that talks about “misuse of a family foundation” and doesn’t stop to concede that the Clinton family foundation is ORDERS OF MAGNITUDES MORE CORRUPT, involving as it did people WHO WERE CABINET OFFICERS AT THE TIME, is in the tank for Hillary.

    This is all they had to say about it:

    “Other board members have serious reservations about Clinton’s sense of entitlement, her lack of candor and her extreme carelessness in handling classified information.”

    Really, USA Today? Really?

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  54. ‘and other than the obvious, how did you enjoy the theatre mrs. lincoln,’

    narciso (d1f714)

  55. If somehow fate suddenly reversed every sin of each candidate, such that Trump’s sins became Hillary’s and Hillary’s became Trump’s, y’all would ignore Trump’s homebrew server and freak out over Hillary’s impersonation of a publicist and denial of same. Right on down the line.

    My opposition to Hillary is completely non-partisan. If the Dems had nominated Trump I’d still be saying he’s less bad.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  56. If somehow fate suddenly reversed every sin of each candidate, such that Trump’s sins became Hillary’s and Hillary’s became Trump’s, y’all would ignore Trump’s homebrew server and freak out over Hillary’s impersonation of a publicist and denial of same. Right on down the line. It’s how partisan politics works. It rots the brain. Sad!

    Patterico (bcf524) — 9/29/2016 @ 8:18 pm

    How many logical fallacies are you planning to commit here Pat?

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  57. It’s weird because I feel it happening to myself. Listening to the crap coming out of the mouth of the left makes you recoil in a way that it didn’t when your favorite candidate said the same things in the primaries. When Hillary criticizes Trump in a way that is completely true, but does it with that smug cackle and mixes it in with some bullshit accusations of racism, etc., I can see recoiling at that. But the facts are still the facts. Donald Trump is a shitbag of a human being. He is manifestly unfit. Hillary is a shrill, dishonest, power-hungry witch whose policies would be worse but would be fought harder by Congress. There’s just no winning. At all.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  58. How many logical fallacies are you planning to commit here Pat?

    Five.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  59. this is the westworld edition, ‘more human than human’ right, yes it’s the tyrell corporation same principle,

    narciso (d1f714)

  60. It’s been fun but I gotta work, guys.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  61. I missed seeing LGF tank. I guess it must have looked something like this?

    Yes, refusing to recognize the greatness of Trump is exactly like what LGF did.

    Such a wise and thoughtful commenter you are.

    I love Trumpers!

    Patterico (bcf524)

  62. @Patterico:Donald Trump is a shitbag of a human being.

    Analysis: true.

    Hillary is a shrill, dishonest, power-hungry witch whose policies would be worse but would be fought harder by Congress.

    But she would aided and abetted by pretty much the entire apparatus of government and the media, and those elements would fight Trump tooth and nail.

    I’m very sure that Hillary would be the start of something like PRI in Mexico, something it would take generations and perhaps violence to shake off.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  63. @Patterico:Donald Trump is a sh*tbag of a human being.

    Analysis: true.

    Hillary is a shrill, dishonest, power-hungry witch whose policies would be worse but would be fought harder by Congress.

    But she would aided and abetted by pretty much the entire apparatus of government and the media, and those elements would fight Trump tooth and nail–and Congress is not exactly the worthiest adversary. And after four years of lawfare against conservative activists and donors, how long would that last?

    I’m very sure that Hillary would be the start of something like PRI in Mexico, something it would take generations and perhaps violence to shake off.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  64. If somehow fate suddenly reversed every sin of each candidate, such that Trump’s sins became Hillary’s and Hillary’s became Trump’s, y’all would ignore Trump’s homebrew server and freak out over Hillary’s impersonation of a publicist and denial of same. Right on down the line. It’s how partisan politics works. It rots the brain. Sad!

    Patterico (bcf524) — 9/29/2016 @ 8:18 pm

    You think treason, weaponizing the government against citizens and creating a new class of above the law royalty is equal to pompous narcissism?

    I thought better of you.

    I can’t stand Trump. But what he has done pales in comparison to Hillary’s actions.

    NJRob (26e665)

  65. @fred-2:I missed seeing LGF tank. I guess it must have looked something like this?

    I saw it, I was banned by Charles Johnson himself because I stuck up for someone else he banned.

    It didn’t look like this. It was slow, then fast.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  66. she can declare americans as enemies more readily than foreign foes, actually insists we must empathize with them, she outright denied the va crisis, not as agregiously as doc brown, brands all americans as implicitly racists, apriori, all of that gannett zombies are fine with,

    narciso (d1f714)

  67. heck I think something like the cristero rebellion would not be out of the question, with her, in a few years,

    narciso (d1f714)

  68. But she would aided and abetted by pretty much the entire apparatus of government and the media, and those elements would fight Trump tooth and nail–and Congress is not exactly the worthiest adversary.

    Yes, I recognize the Glenn Reynolds argument. I don’t buy it.

    President x has just proposed expanding government-run health care.

    Scenario one: president x is Hillary. The GOP will fight her tooth and nail in Congress, and it won’t pass. But the almighty bureaucracy and media will cancel out their votes . . . how? But wait! It gets better! Because now we have:

    Scenario two: president x is Trump. The GOP will…I’m not sure what the GOP will do. Probably what they did when GW Bush proposed a giant new health care entitlement: pass it. But at least Big Media and the bureaucracy will fight this new health care initiative tooth and nail! Because of how they will always fight Trump!

    Total horseshit and you know it.

    So you’re left with hoping Trump WON’T propose a Big New Shiny Health Care Entitlement. Given his statements about how he will take care of everybody and the government will pay for it — where does this hope of yours come from?

    The Glenn Reynolds argument sounds nice until you think about how it would play out in real life. I just gave you the scenarios.

    Now I really gotta work!

    Patterico (bcf524)

  69. You think treason, weaponizing the government against citizens and creating a new class of above the law royalty is equal to pompous narcissism?

    I think that what candidates have actually done bears almost zero relationship to how partisans will attack the enemy and defend their own guy. That’s what I think.

    John Miller. Trump U. Con man. Just hasn’t had the power yet.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  70. @narcisco: I’ve been reading a lot of history lately. The Covenant, the Wars of the Three Kingdoms, the Restoration, the Glorious Revolution.

    In those cases, the people simply took power into their own hands. They simply stopped going along with government they had.

    However, they generally did unwise things with that power. Almost anything is better than violence against the state. As long as peaceful options are left open I think we are bound to pursue them.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  71. My last thought: as we wander the post-nuclear holocaust landscape, the Trumpers (who will survive like the cockroaches they are) will say: Hillary’s nuclear war would have been worse!

    Patterico (bcf524)

  72. @Patterico: But the almighty bureaucracy and media will cancel out their votes . . . how?

    Really? It wouldn’t look a thing like this?

    What about his refusal to enforce immigration laws? What about all the regulations they enact without a vote?

    I’d say “lack of imagination” but there’s nothing to imagine. Obama is doing it now.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  73. In a sworn deposition newly made public, the IRS’s Chief Risk Officer David Fisher told the House Ways and Means Committee that he had raised concerns to the Obama administration in 2014 when it was about to authorize subsidies to insurance companies as part of ObamaCare, a move which a judge ruled was illegal in early May.

    Fisher’s testimony suggests the White House knew it was breaking the law when it decided to go forward with the subsidies. He testified to telling administration officials that “there was no clear reference in the section regarding the cost-sharing reduction payments to the Internal Revenue Code in the Affordable Care Act” and the “cost-sharing reduction payments are not linked to the Internal Revenue Code, as far as I could tell, directly anywhere.”

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  74. Gary Johnson had an “Aleppo moment” after @hardballchris asks who his favorite foreign leader is #JohnsonTownhall
    6:46 PM – 28 Sep 2016

    There are many Republican voters who are leaning toward Johnson because they believe Donald Trump is unprepared to be president. The rationale appears to be that Trump “lacks a basic understanding” of important fundamental issues, especially when it comes to foreign policy.

    So Gary Johnson’s your choice, really?

    So just who #nevertrump is qualified, certainly none here.

    DNF (755a85)

  75. I saw it, I was banned by Charles Johnson himself because I stuck up for someone else he banned.

    It didn’t look like this. It was slow, then fast.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a) — 9/29/2016 @ 8:29 pm

    I stopped going there when they jumped the shark, went back to ask how they could support Nancy Pelosi and was banned.

    NJRob (26e665)

  76. In that notorious pro-Trump rag, National Review:

    The model of the imperial Obama presidency is the greater fear. Over the last eight years, Obama has transformed the powers of presidency in a way not seen in decades. Congress talks grandly of “comprehensive immigration reform,” but Obama, as he promised with his pen and phone, bypassed the House and Senate to virtually open the border with Mexico. He largely ceased deportations of undocumented immigrants. He issued executive-order amnesties. And he allowed entire cities to be exempt from federal immigration law. The press said nothing about this extraordinary overreach of presidential power, mainly because these largely illegal means were used to achieve the progressive ends favored by many journalists.

    Really, Patterico? A President can’t get around a “no” vote from Congress? All you can say is “how”? Haven’t you been writing about this for 8 years now?

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  77. When you’re Red State
    You’re a Red State all the way
    From your first compromise
    To your last dyin’ day.

    When you’re Red State
    If the sh*t hits the fan,
    You got Clintons around
    You’re a part of the plan!

    You’re never alone,
    You’re never disconnected!
    You’re home with your own:
    When company’s expected,
    You’re well protected!

    Then you are set
    With a gal you can trust
    Which you’ll never forget
    Even though it’s a bust
    When you’re Red State
    You stay Red State!

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  78. 70. That is a “thought”? You were a valley girl back in the day, confess.

    DNF (755a85)

  79. interesting I started on my exploration of the renaissance some years back, and I discovered that Il Macchia basically served a sociopath, the younger borgia, defamed all those who has challenged him, like the tigress of forli, I noted a similar pattern with the Tudors, in part to Josephine Tey’s exploration of the indictment of Richard 111, Phillippa Gregory has restored some balance, but Alison Weir refers back to Tudor tracts,

    narciso (d1f714)

  80. Patterico,
    I hope it doesn’t end like this. My number one concern is that !Hillary Clinton does NOT become the president of the United States of America. Sorry to tell you this but that any vote against Trump is a vote for !Hillary..

    champ (56cd04)

  81. @narcisco: I think any rehabilitation of Richard III has to strain gnats and swallow camels. He could have ended the controversy at any time by producing the princes alive.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  82. 69. Sounds reasonable to me. My crossfit club’s last ladies’ night out was “Bad Moms” the next is the gun range.

    Minds are concentrating.

    DNF (755a85)

  83. well that’s one perspective, the consent of the governed, e pleb nista, is a tiny fragment of human history, between the roman and next itteration, about a millenia and a half,

    narciso (d1f714)

  84. Do you people understand what is stake here?

    champ (56cd04)

  85. I cite the example because the cristeros didn’t win, and it was generations before people of faith had any civic space in mexico

    narciso (d1f714)

  86. “lying on an insane and pathological scale” can easily describe Hillary.

    But I think most of those criticisms of Trump are true. He seems less corrupt than Hillary because he doesn’t operate at the level she does. But if he’s in the WH…

    The one reason to vote for him is that he will staff the Cabinet with RINOs instead of the Marxists she will pick.

    Kishnevi (39af22)

  87. #nevertrump is a victimless crime, like masturbating until blind.

    DNF (ffe548)

  88. I think, regardless of who wins, I plan to go offline for a while, and not come back without some assurance that I have anonymity.

    I have a family to support and I can’t afford an SJW Twitter mob demanding my job, or a bogus lawfare prosecution like the Federal government tried to do to the commenters at Reason.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  89. Even tenure might not have protected Glenn Reynolds.

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  90. no, because the university is no longer about pursuit of truth, but fundamental transformation of society, in a different era, they would mandate hemlock, they are a little more subtle about it now,

    narciso (d1f714)

  91. 88. Indeed.

    But #nevertrump retorts “Lay back and enjoy”.

    DNF (ffe548)

  92. Patterico

    You’ve lost it, dude.

    You need to retire this blog or give to a conservative to run.

    You’ve been here maybe two weeks? Three? I have been here since February 2003, espousing conservative principles the whole time. I’ll be damned if I’m going to let a drive-by punk like you get away with suggesting that I’m not a real conservative because I don’t support the blowhard big-government leftist you happen to like because he has an R after his name. You stand for nothing except sitting on the sidelines throwing rocks at people who actually stand for something. I feel nothing but contempt for you.

    Patterico (bcf524)

  93. 54. Knee slapper.

    DNF (755a85)

  94. 92. Still here? What about that work?

    DNF (755a85)

  95. @narcisco:the university is no longer about pursuit of truth

    Not sure they ever were. They used to do two things: train clergy, and educate the sons of gentlemen of leisure. Those two things subsidized pursuit of truth, but that was a hobby.

    The nasty fights over small things has a long history:

    “Those were times when, to forget an evil world, grammarians took pleasure in abstruse questions. I was told that in that period, for fifteen days and fifteen nights, the rhetoricians Gabundus and Terentius argued on the vocative of ‘ego’, and in the end they attacked each other with weapons. “

    Gabriel Hanna (bc876a)

  96. the magnificent seven, apparently went sjw, since mexican bandit (eli wallach) is doubleunplusgood, they decided murdering robber baron, (skarsgard) inspired by whom, you ask was an appropriate bete noire

    narciso (d1f714)

  97. 85. And many of the criticisms are minutiae.

    #nevertrump needs before anything else is said, to justify deliberately loosing.

    Every time he opens his pie hole.

    DNF (755a85)

  98. yikes, keep sharp objects away is the proper admonition,

    narciso (d1f714)

  99. with a cloth,

    https://twitter.com/politico/status/781673904599367680

    it contains a matryusha doll of greater illogic,

    narciso (d1f714)

  100. so among gannett’s gotterdamerung’s offerings, is a supplication upon having jasta ‘now that we know is in it’ we must change it,

    narciso (d1f714)

  101. #nevertrump’s argument for splendid isolation, unsullied by the filth of human intercourse(obs.) isn’t that they are smarter, or more educated or more experienced or more anything except:

    More noble, like a divine right.

    Get away from me you filthy reprobate, a pox on you for ignoring me, your better.

    DNF (755a85)

  102. it seems an intriguing notion, however they could not gather a plurality, nor sufficient basis of support, I think paul singer had much to do with the latter,

    as for the editorial, it’s a rocky road icecream of category error,

    narciso (d1f714)

  103. as tyrmand rather pointed brought up, when it seems volodya conducted a decapitation strike on one nato ally, in the vecinity of katyn as it turns out, not only was the silence not deafening, but certain reporters, whitewashed that event, the same ones who see the big bad bear now, but not when it mattered,

    narciso (d1f714)

  104. It’s remarkable because they never endorse.

    No. It’s remarkable that in 2016, McPaper is still in print.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV7XIw-eNUg

    “Inka Dink A Doo…” — by Jimmy Durante & Ben Ryan, 1933

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  105. 104. Google is required on most narciso commentary. Do you refer to this strike:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/11/world/europe/11poland.html?_r=0

    DNF (ffe548)

  106. 108. Gundlach says the market will crush them until Bailed.

    How much money do the Germans have? Good, hand it over.

    DNF (ffe548)

  107. yes, that’s the one, they got a more confrontational govt out of the way, and they ended with a much more compliant counterpart, the nuclear chicken now being noted with alarm, was on display six to eight years ago,

    narciso (d1f714)

  108. issues of consequence, some might say grave ones, rarely come up, until the ‘iceberg is dead ahead’

    narciso (d1f714)

  109. 110. Note America is helping by extracting a $14 Billion penalty for fraud. Roughly two year’s losses for the IMF’s “most systemically dangerous bank”.

    The Fed giveth and the SEC taketh away. Who needs an ally with America on their throat?

    DNF (ffe548)

  110. it’s a rather expensive danegold, the kind client no 9, offered to aig, three years before the collapse,

    narciso (d1f714)

  111. Oh, my….

    “….People have tried to explain to you, but you’re just too steeped in your hatred and hubris to see what’s important…..”

    The self examined life is not for everyone.

    Simon Jester (3dbc42)

  112. seeing the sterling examples of st, louis university re allen west, he does unhinge them in a grand guignol fashion, and of course, northwestern, does it seem free inquiry is really going on,

    narciso (d1f714)

  113. 108. The month of October is traditionally bearish, and we have regulations coming on to reprise a significant pull back. The elves have yesterday noted a head-and-shoulders testing of the top which today fell back 200.

    I believe the next level of support is like 17,200 or down a 1000. Its the end of the quarter and LIBOR is stretched to the max, with Money Market restrictions coming on line Oct. 1.

    White knuckle time.

    DNF (755a85)

  114. and yet counselor, you ask us to discard everything we’ve discovered about the dog trainer, bezos and carlos slims, because of a particular bete noire, yes i’ve heard the arguments is he ahab, or will he merely ruminate like nebuchadnezzar before coming to his sense,

    narciso (d1f714)

  115. 115. And eschewed in the Ivory Tower. That’s what colleagues are for, internecine intrigue.

    DNF (755a85)

  116. 92. Still here? What about that work?

    Oh, I’m sorry. Did I take three minutes off from doing an hour and a half of work at home at night? How dare I?

    Patterico (bcf524)

  117. There’s a lot I could say, but I won’t since it would be rude, and I don’t intend to lower myself to your level of name calling and so forth.

    Oh! My! You’re so proper. You waltz and here and tell me I’m not a conservative, and that I need to give my blog which I have had for 13 years which you have read for two minutes because I’m not a conservative, but YOU would NEVER descend to name calling! Not “Bob23″! Oh, my, no!

    Patterico (bcf524)

  118. have they pulled up enough to avoid an auguring in, or do they not understand the forces unleashed by crisis,

    http://calgaryherald.com/business/energy/deficit-pain-prompts-saudi-arabia-to-agree-to-oil-production-cuts

    narciso (d1f714)

  119. 119. They will not. The hope was NIRP would allow the debt to be disappeared, but it forces everyone to save even more and banks cannot profit.

    The Fed is in a quandry, filling their collective Depends.

    DNF (755a85)

  120. Bob23, I won’t stoop to name calling. I’ll just say that there are some people here with good minds and comments, but I’m afraid you’re not really one of them. That’s the classy way to describe you. And I’m all about the class. Just like Trump!

    Patterico (bcf524)

  121. stein’s law (herbert) governs in these circumstances, we’ve never been in zero g consitions, with all the atrophy that entails for such a long period of time,

    narciso (d1f714)

  122. 121.

    “I have the right to do anything,” you say–but not everything is beneficial. “I have the right to do anything”–but not everything is constructive.

    Hypertensive much?

    DNF (755a85)

  123. the first rule of fight club,

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/jeb-bush-responds-to-reports-his-father-will-vote-clinton/article/2603272

    I imagine as with the morning news endorsement, they had an adverse reaction,

    narciso (d1f714)

  124. Well, USA Today has it right. The trouble is that they don’t go far enough.

    Trump is absolutely unsuited to be president. But so is Clinton. A vote for either is a vote against America.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  125. ah mcluhan, how right you were,

    http://thefederalist.com/2016/09/29/feminist-phd-candidate-science-sexist-not-subjective/

    the thesis advisor in marathon man would commiserate,

    narciso (d1f714)

  126. 126. And there’s the rub. Margin has never been higher with volatility now rearing its head. Though the system is awash in free money the available liquidity cannot support everyone rushing to the exits.

    And many are in the same bets, e.g., Apple who just had there first iPhone battery blowup. People are losing confidence in the Fed, et al., and one of these sell offs could spell trouble.

    DNF (755a85)

  127. 130. “A vote for either…”

    So you’d prefer TFG just pull the plug on Hill and cancel the election?

    A bit too reductionistic.

    DNF (ffe548)

  128. in ancient egypt, the offending pharoah’s presence would be wiped from all private records,

    http://nypost.com/2016/09/29/congress-says-oops-over-the-sue-the-saudis-bill/

    it’s a cruel way to do things, but one must do it in order to be kind later, methinks the jugurthan threat, referred earlier is involved,

    narciso (d1f714)

  129. “Oh, By the Way, Obama Looted the US Treasury to Make Illegal Payments to Insurers to Keep Obamacare Afloat, But Vote for Hillary Because We Need to “Save Our Party” or Something
    —Ace

    I alluded to this in the post below but did not have a link. I just knew it from John Sexton.

    So here’s the reason you have nothing to fear from President Hillary, my friends.

    The Obama administration failed to follow its own health care law by directing funds to insurers instead of taxpayers, nonpartisan government investigators said Thursday, chalking up a win for GOP critics and denting the White House’s ability to satisfy insurers who are losing money under the overhaul.
    The Affordable Care Act established a three-year “reinsurance” program to collect funds from participating insurers and then pay a portion to plans that took on costlier enrollees. Yet it was supposed to allocate some of its collections to the Treasury, too.

    The administration projected it would take in $10 billion for reinsurance purposes and $2 billion for the Treasury in 2014, the program’s first year.

    When collections fell short of estimates, the Health and Human Services Department prioritized payments to insurers over the Treasury, angering Republicans who said the agency put its contentious program over taxpayers, who got nothing.

    That was illegal, that was incandescently unconstitutional, but seriously guys, we should elect Hillary Clinton to teach those low-class non-college-educated hooligans who want to replace the Presidential Seal with Pepe the Frog to ever fuck with our enlightened and benevolent power again.

    I mean, Trump called an overweight beauty pageant winner overweight.

    We can’t have that. Not quite our class, dear.”

    Colonel Haiku (e76608)

  130. Patterico has used more words in his comments on this thread than is permitted by a story editor at USA Today.

    Bu then, such pretty colors on their weather maps, eh.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  131. which was why the metelli were preferred by plutarch over the more rough and ready marius, the new man,

    narciso (d1f714)

  132. have we had enough absurdity, someone else take over,

    narciso (d1f714)

  133. @ DNF, #135:

    A bit too reductionistic.

    I don’t see how. But then, I’m not advocating that an unconvicted, unrepentant cronyist criminal be put into the White House — if only because the unconvicted, unrepentant cronyist criminal running for the other major party would be worse. Which is the argument that both Clinton and Trump supporters have to make. Perhaps I simply lack the nth-dimensional genius necessary to appreciate the subtleties of such an argument. Or maybe I’m just an honest guy.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  134. it really comes down to the 800 pound duffer in the room, doesn’t it,

    narciso (d1f714)

  135. He [Trump] once pretended to be a pro-Trump publicist named John Miller, and every person with ears and a brain knows it was him — yet he denied, in 2016, that it was him. I can’t get over that to this day.

    Maybe you should. It’s showbiz. Red Skelton had himself paged in hotel lobbies to generate publicity for himself.

    “I Dood It.” -Red Skelton, 1943

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  136. Oh, By the Way, Obama Looted the US Treasury to Make Illegal Payments to Insurers to Keep Obamacare Afloat, But Vote for Hillary Because We Need to “Save Our Party” or Something

    There’s been an amazing amount of high dudgeon from Ace on this whole not voting for Trump thing. If only Rubio were the nominee, then voting for Hillary would get the Ace Stamp of Approval.

    You know what, guys, we just disagree. I don’t dump on you for your decision, but for some reason it’s very important to y’all to dump on me for mine. Lighten up, Francis.

    Patterico (c92ee4)

  137. Maybe you should. It’s showbiz. Red Skelton had himself paged in hotel lobbies to generate publicity for himself.

    Yeah, that doesn’t justify lying about it in 2016, which was my point (that went whizzing over your head), but maybe you’re taking the Scott Adams approach that truth is less important than showmanship, in which case y’all fit in beautifully with Trump and his ilk.

    Could y’all go form your own country please? This country was founded by better people.

    Patterico (c92ee4)

  138. Demosthenes,

    Tell your pal Diogenes to keep looking.

    Patterico (c92ee4)

  139. Trump is everything that is wrong with this country. Indeed, on any objective basis, Donald Trump is a worse human being than Hillary Clinton, and that’s saying something.

    It says something all right.. about you.

    What’s not to like?

    He’s wealthy.
    He’s Presbyterian.
    He’s white.
    He’s a successful capitalist.
    He’s got power.
    He’s got a pretty wife.
    He’s got lovely ex-wives.
    He’s got great kids.
    He’s got a big airplane.
    He’s got a helicopter.
    He’s got property.
    He’s got plastic in his pockets.
    He’s got money in the bank.

    He’s got it all. In that shining city on a hill Reaganites swoon about…

    He’s the quintessential Ugly American. And all real Americans enviously aspire to be and to have what he has.

    ‘Death Valley Days’ Reagan would be so, so proud. And ask yourself, why?

    “Because you’re on television, dummy!” -Arthur Jensen [Ned Beatty] ‘Network’ 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  140. @145– =yawn= He’s a businessman; a showman– they lie hourly, Patrick.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  141. This country has gone to crap.

    Patterico (c92ee4)

  142. Patterico, it would be easy -albeit way too wordy- to pick apart your objecting POV on JR point by point on this. Because in the real world, they don’t hold much water.

    For instance, NATO actually protects corporate interests, not ‘nations’ or ‘ideologies.'(You really ought to bone up on the corporate cosmology of Arthur Jensen. It’s more truth than satire.) And given the deep pockets of the economies involved, the members behind in their dues are overdue to cough it up. The wreckage of the Hoboken Terminal (a hub I travelled through daily for 20 years, built in 1907 BTW) should tell you a lot. Won’t find an antiques like that in NATOland these days.

    I suspect you’re just projecting your disappointment at Tedtoo’s rejection and subsequent betrayal on to The Donald.

    Could y’all go form your own country please? This country was founded by better people.

    No, not really, Patrick. But you know that. For instance take posting #23:

    His business career is checkered.

    So were the careers of these ‘better people’… wretched scum; bankrupt all. Just to name a few:

    Walt Disney.
    Henry Ford.
    Milton Hershey.
    H,J. Heinz.
    P.T. Barnum.
    George McGovern.
    John Connally.
    Joe Lewis.
    Jose Canseco.
    Willie Nelson.
    Kim Bassinger.
    Larry King.
    Mike Tyson.
    Mark Twain.
    Oscar Wilde.
    Mickey Rooney.
    Debbie Reynolds.
    Burt Reynolds.
    J.C. Penney.
    Johnny Unitas.
    Dorothy Hamill.
    Sherman Hemsley.
    Gary Busey.
    Nicholas Cage.

    And, of course, Presidents of the United States:
    Thomas Jefferson.
    U.S. Grant.
    William McKinley
    and Abraham Lincoln– twice.

    Not to mention:
    Texaco.
    Enron.
    Washington Mutual.
    Chrysler.
    General Motors.
    Lehman Bros.,
    PG&E.
    Worldcom.
    CIT Group.
    PanAm Airlines.
    United Airlines.
    Delta Airlines…

    …and many, many more. How dare such low-lifes soil our soil!

    Ahhhh, capitalism…. that sweet smell of ‘success.’

    “GM. Mark Of Excellence!” General Motors corporate tag line, 1960s-70s.

    ________________

    I will never, ever, ever, ever get over the John Miller thing. That is creepy to the nth degree

    It’s no more ‘creepy’ than Ronald Reagan faking baseball play-by-play calls from wire copy. Or calling his wife ‘Mommie.’ Or a lawyer being an ambulance chaser.

    It’s not creepy at all; in fact, it’s pure JR Ewing– and you know it.

    It’s self-promotion: it’s showbiz. And JR has the balls to do it.

    Maudie doesn’t — she has others do her dirty work for her.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  143. @149. This country has gone to crap.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pS_ENdxHpk

    “Honey, you don’t know what sh-t is.” – Operator Margaret, ‘Thirteen Days,’ 2000

    And whose fault is that, Patterico?

    “Cassius was right. ‘The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.’ Good night, and good luck.” — Edward R. Murrow, ‘See It Now’ CBS TV, 1954

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  144. For those who cannot or refuse to see why a Never Trump position, try this…

    we see an equivalent sickness in our society and thus our government, to that of the mid-19th Century. Short of a radical change in half the polity, Statism and Anticonstitutionalism continues. Back then, without a radical shift, slavery would continue. There was no avoiding the necessary wrenching change in the South back then. John Brown and others saw that the evil was that horrible and that it was destroying us. Myself, and many others, see much the same thing today with the primacy of progressivism and the societal rot it has brought.

    How viable life is not protected societally and in the law is so beyond my comprehension. I can see nothing else but necessary and horrible conflicts as our republic has fallen. A first and crucial step is to throw out the modern whigs and replace them with something of backbone, rooted in the guidance of our Creator.

    So, the War of Northern Aggression was over changing the constitution to add basic rights to all humans. Today, it’s about the refusal to adhere to the constitution so as to render it superfluous. Same coin, different sides.

    The war is coming. It won’t be bloodless. We need a Lincoln who will lead with a supreme and zealous focus on constitutional principles. He must come from a party similarly convicted. In this reality, to vote for a DJT is to betray the righteous cause. To avoid or put off the fight is to further weaken our side. It is crucial that the right people now be identified: Those who see the evil and will not yield. These are the only ones who will have what it takes to restore our land – if even can be restored.

    As horrific as an HRC presidency will be, it may be a requirement in order to get the citizenry to wake up to our duty.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5)

  145. @152. Bull.

    Ideology is out. Pragmatism is in.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  146. @121 Patterico

    A lawyer is not without honor, but in his own blog.

    Pinandpuller (973ed7)

  147. I had no idea you people live and die with the usa today. So sorry for your brain loss.

    mg (31009b)

  148. Read it and weep, you educated attorneys.
    You hacks can’t get to the bottom of the ocean quick enough.

    mg (31009b)

  149. oh my goodness i missed my cue

    was completely wiped yesterday

    yes yes yes though

    nevertrumperism is a social phenomenon not a political one

    this is the whit stillman election

    and we all have our parts to play

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  150. Read it and weep, you educated attorneys.
    You hacks can’t get to the bottom of the ocean quick enough.

    mg (31009b) — 9/30/2016 @ 2:38 am

    How cruel you’ve become. I’m sad for you.

    DRJ (15874d)

  151. “Trump is absolutely unsuited to be president. But so is Clinton. A vote for either is a vote against America.” If you live in a dark blue state, like I do, a write-in vote is both virtuous and cost-free. So there’s that.

    gp (0c542c)

  152. “This country has gone to crap.” Yes. I took it for granted, thought it would always be here. It slipped away so quickly!

    gp (0c542c)

  153. “high dudgeon from Ace” I stopped going there (and NRO) 4 months ago. Feel better now.

    gp (0c542c)

  154. 159. ROTFLMAO!

    http://www.mrctv.org/blog/buzzfeed-hilariously-updates-own-online-poll-due-huge-trump-showing

    Colonel, done Dee Clark’s ‘Raindrops’ lately?

    DNF (ffe548)

  155. 154. Love it.

    DNF (ffe548)

  156. The pathetic thing about this tempertantrum is on the only two policy issues Pat mentions Trump is in 100% agreement with him.

    Dude’s problem is his head is up his ass and his ego has it swollen up to big to extract.

    papertiger (82d7e8)

  157. Again, you choose to lose. How utterly pointless. No opportunity for change on the outs.

    How much did ‘hoping JEF would fail’ help. The first veto override came 100 days B4 the end.

    #nevertrump has no currency at all. Cruz, at least, gets a judgeship.

    DNF (ffe548)

  158. 141. The only way you ‘win’ at this point is TFG, knowing HRC is going down with all hands, is to off the witch and the election.

    He can count on unparalleled fraud, but a blowout this size will be impossible to steal without the military on board.

    They could try it, but it risks all the ‘work’ he’s accomplished.

    DNF (ffe548)

  159. 162. Ace has capitulated. No longer #nevertrump.

    Remember the Japanese WWII soldiers discovered on Micronesian islands, still awaiting victory into this millennium?

    DNF (ffe548)

  160. The Trump Derangement Syndrome is strong on this blog.

    g6loq (3a2647)

  161. “JUST THINK OF THE MEDIA AS DEMOCRATIC OPERATIVES WITH BYLINES, AND IT ALL MAKES SENSE: How Journalists Purge Peers Who Don’t Lick Hillary Clinton’s Boots.

    Related: 20 Mins on ‘Miss Piggy’ Remark, Silence on Cheryl Mills Immunity.”

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/245145/

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  162. I think it is sad to see this thread.

    I mean, look at Dr. K. He disagrees with Patterico. Wishes him well. Moves on.

    But some folks on this thread? They are no different from the Left: you MUST agree with them. Even if they are laughably hypocritical given their own commentary in 2008 and 2012.

    Look: vote (or hey, don’t vote and run your mouth like a vulgar slacker about how important an election is, like HF) for whomever you please. But to come into Patterico’s place (which he pays for) and insult him?

    Very classy.

    The classiest. Yugely classy.

    And the best part? It changes no minds, and confirms what the Left thinks.

    Nice job.

    Simon Jester (3dbc42)

  163. Colonel, your post is what upsets me so about this election. Because of the weird Trump nonsense, HRC gets away with things.

    If only Trump simply focused on those things, repeatedly. He has to have some self control, from business. I wish he would use it.

    Simon Jester (3dbc42)

  164. vote vote vote (but not for pig)

    this is Plan A

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  165. People really need to stop with the name calling. It isn’t helping.

    I can’t stand Trump. He still isn’t as bad as Hillary.

    The government has been weaponized by the left to target Americans and turn our country into a 3rd world mess. They want the USA dropped off a cliff and truly believe we succeed at the expense of the world. But they want their caviar as the rest of us suffer.

    Trump isn’t a good guy, but he won’t be able to use the entrenched hand of government against the people. He will keep them as an adversary. He will keep the media as an adversary. He will keep Congress as an adversary. That is enough for me. It will keep the government fighting each other and off the backs of the people.

    After January, we can work on creating a new party and rebuilding the nation which starts with toppling the indoctrination system that begins in Kindergarten and continues through Graduate School. 20 years of indoctrination will destroy all but the strongest minds.

    NJRob (a07d2e)

  166. For example: why do we need to bother with NATO? There is no more Soviet Union.

    Dammit Patterico, get out of your own way.

    Inter alia:

    History does not always repeat itself, but it often rhymes. Moscow’s charming Chekist has said, in effect, that “Ukraine isn’t really a country” and has demonstrated that belief with stark means. A nation that encourages politicide, particularly that of a harmless neighbor in an otherwise fairly peaceful part of the world, bears watching. For all intents and purposes, NATO is keeping watch.

    Believe it or not, NATO has been an useful military alliance on the cheap – for all parties concerned. Why throw that away, particularly when other actual and potential security threats are on the horizon?

    NATO is an effective protector of the regional commons and also indicative of the kind of relationship that former enemies of the US (and its allies) may enjoy, should they knock off whatever silly sh!t they espouse and call it a day.

    On a related note, a friendly guarantee is not the same thing as an entanglement. Washington of all people would have recognized that; from the earliest years of the Republic, America sought treaties and friendships to avoid “entanglement”.

    America’s earliest and longest treaty of friendship was signed with the Sultan of Morocco in 1777. This arrangement helped spur Rabat to bring Moroccan pirates (who preyed on US and other foreign shipping) to heel and furthered de facto Moroccan neutrality in US and British efforts to pacify the main operations of the Barbary corsairs (based primarily in Algiers, Tunis, and Tripoli).

    JP (f1742c)

  167. Now newspapers who say they never endorse anybody jump on the Klinton bandwagon. TV shows and comedy shows, “impartial” media hacks. The left must be more scared of Trump than we think. They’re bringing out the little children again and “Will and Grace” make a comeback to support Killary. They’re scared, real scared. I can’t imagine the dirty politics of the last few weeks before the election while they gather their “vote counters” and streams of lawyers to challenge the vote in areas where they can’t “count” it in private.

    There’s a lot at stake. If Hlepto-Klinton can “earn” $100 million selling access as S of S she very well could become the first person to become a billionaire in the WH. Then we’ll be just like Cuba and Castro. Mission accomplished Mr. Alinsky.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  168. For those who cannot or refuse to see why a Never Trump position, try this…

    we see an equivalent sickness in our society and thus our government, to that of the mid-19th Century. Short of a radical change in half the polity, Statism and Anticonstitutionalism continues. Back then, without a radical shift, slavery would continue. There was no avoiding the necessary wrenching change in the South back then. John Brown and others saw that the evil was that horrible and that it was destroying us. Myself, and many others, see much the same thing today with the primacy of progressivism and the societal rot it has brought.

    How viable life is not protected societally and in the law is so beyond my comprehension. I can see nothing else but necessary and horrible conflicts as our republic has fallen. A first and crucial step is to throw out the modern whigs and replace them with something of backbone, rooted in the guidance of our Creator.

    So, the War of Northern Aggression was over changing the constitution to add basic rights to all humans. Today, it’s about the refusal to adhere to the constitution so as to render it superfluous. Same coin, different sides.

    The war is coming. It won’t be bloodless. We need a Lincoln who will lead with a supreme and zealous focus on constitutional principles. He must come from a party similarly convicted. In this reality, to vote for a DJT is to betray the righteous cause. To avoid or put off the fight is to further weaken our side. It is crucial that the right people now be identified: Those who see the evil and will not yield. These are the only ones who will have what it takes to restore our land – if even can be restored.

    As horrific as an HRC presidency will be, it may be a requirement in order to get the citizenry to wake up to our duty.

    Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/30/2016 @ 1:21 am

    That’s deeply delusional. There’s only two things that might bring about a sea change in the electorate:

    1) An economic collapse.
    2) A national security disaster, maybe exceeding 9/11, and where there was no sign that things were under control.

    I’m not certain either would bring about a sea change but they’re the only two scenarios that even have a chance of doing that.

    The general public doesn’t care about constitutional principles. Period. Four years of Clinton and her appointees wreaking havoc with the rule of law, assisted by her court appointees, wouldn’t change that. Period.

    Citing the civil war as some kind of parallel is totally off base. We went to war to preserve the union, not to end slavery. The south’s attempted secession actually brought about the end of slavery. In electing Lincoln the north was not deciding to go to war to end slavery.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  169. I Started A Joke I Has Me A Sad

    I has me a sad which started the leftwing laughing
    But I didn’t see that the sad one was me oh no
    I tried to point out the Trumpster was not fit for teh job
    Oh If I’d only seen that the unfit one was me

    I looked at the lies told by the gal with the crossed eyes
    And I ran to my door ranting some more acting teh bore
    ‘Till I finally died which gave teh leftwing more power
    Oh if I’d only seen that the sad one was me

    If I’d voted my heart, there’d be a chance for a fresh start
    But I fell right in line, not with my kind, had a brain fart
    ‘Till she finally won, which made sure Teh Suck kept trending
    Oh if I’d only seen that the sad one was me

    Colonel Haiku (d0a528)

  170. Sue me.

    mg (31009b)

  171. Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 9/30/2016 @ 1:21 am

    At least you didn’t argue that Trump is as left wing as Clinton. In fact the underlying assumption of that zany argument is that he isn’t a leftist, which he isn’t. The people who keep insisting he is are pretty far out there. Not that he’s really a conservative either. But I’m convinced his SCOTUS appointees would be, and his cabinet, which would actually make policy to a large degree, would be more conservative than not, based on who his campaign advisers are.

    Gerald A (a48c32)

  172. Mr. Feet writes, removing his Tourette’s porcine fixation:

    “….vote vote vote….”

    Lead by example, sir! Now is your time!

    But I’ll bet you won’t.

    Again.

    I would love to be wrong.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  173. “nevertrumperism is a social phenomenon not a political one”

    I never thought about it that way, but now you mention it, spot on!

    Simon, why are you so obsessed with happyfeet not voting, but supportive of Patterico not voting?

    LBascom (2f3828)

  174. Patterico @70- “as we wander the post-nuclear holocaust landscape, the Trumpers (who will survive like the cockroaches they are)”

    Patterico @125- ” I won’t stoop to name calling. I’ll just say that there are some people here with good minds and comments, but I’m afraid you’re not really one of them. That’s the classy way to describe you. And I’m all about the class. Just like Trump!”

    You lie just like you claim Trump does. Must make you unfit to be a DDA.

    LBascom (2f3828)

  175. After 35 years Macpaper is still not worth reading, except for the occasional Glenn Reynolds pieces.

    gbear (70736b)

  176. nonono that is too many vituperative

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  177. dda is a really hard job cause of you have such limited lunch choices i would imagine

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  178. If any of us had a few thousand “journalists” filled with self righteous fervor examining every word and deed in our lives, dedicated to destroying our reputations, I doubt we would come out looking any better than Trump.

    Something to think about…

    LBascom (2f3828)

  179. yeah, well, calling me a cockroach for supporting a man that wants to restore America is pretty vituperative.

    And one isn’t a saint by virtue of being a DDA. Take Don Kleine for instance…

    http://countercurrentnews.com/2016/09/cop-forced-teen-perform-oral-sex-partner-keeps-law-enforcement-certification/

    LBascom (2f3828)

  180. Demosthenes (09f714) — 9/29/2016 @ 10:30 pm No place else to go.

    I’m going with the one who is less likely to make inroads against the first amendment. And a few other things.

    SarahW (3164f0)

  181. @175- NATO is an effective protector of the regional commons and also indicative of the kind of relationship that former enemies of the US (and its allies) may enjoy, should they knock off whatever silly sh!t they espouse and call it a day.

    Except it’s not. Witness Bosnia, Syria and Crimea. In it’s current structure, it’s wholly unsustainable given the fiscal mess in the U.S. It’s a bureaucratic dinosaur; a fossil from the Cold War.

    For example, borrowing money from Red China to ‘protect’ Europe makes no sense today when its energy grid, for example, is dependent on the very ‘adversary’ it is supposed to be poised to oppose. It’s charter/function/intent is essentially obsolete. It’s an expensive Cold War dinosaur. And serves only to ‘protect’ corporate interests.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  182. yes yes you’re no cockroach, sir

    you’re a patriot!

    and me personally I would like to thank you for helping us stop that pig

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  183. well bosnia was an early exercise of the network, that the sauds had raised up in afghanistan,
    syria serves much the same purpose, james galbraith son of the revered one, allowed a backdoor for Ikwan and Sepah forces in the 90s,

    narciso (d1f714)

  184. I was referring to this last night,

    https://catholicgene.wordpress.com/2012/05/27/mexicos-forgotten-history-the-persecution-of-catholics-and-the-cristero-war/

    one of those passion projects of andy garcia, like the lost city, that had to struggle for distribution and financing,

    narciso (d1f714)

  185. DCSCA (797bc0) — 9/30/2016 @ 12:09 pm

    Witness Bosnia, Syria and Crimea.

    Yugoslavia, Ukraine and Syria did not belong to NATO, and they did finally do soemthing about Bosnia.

    Vladimir Putin has scared NATO, or some countries in it, from helping Ukraine. Syria is a potential intervntion, although Putin would like Assad to be allied with NATO.

    ALEPPO (American Led Emergency Partial Peace Operation, as Gary Johnson might put it) has failed.

    People are being killed because Vladimir Putin, in part by financing far right parties in Europe, has turned Europe against the idea of admitting more refugees, resulting in them not even getting into Turkey, leaving little dowenside to murdering the inhabitants of the city.

    NATO has kept the peace between Greece and Turkey, and Cyprus remains unsolved but not a problem.

    borrowing money from Red China

    The money is not specifically borrowed from China but from the lowest bidder.

    to ‘protect’ Europe makes no sense today when its energy grid, for example, is dependent on the very ‘adversary’ it is supposed to be poised to oppose.

    It’s starting to get less dependent.

    Of course Putin needs the money maybe more than Europe needs the gas, and pretty soon they’ll be able to get it from the United States, if a new president doesn’t interfere.

    Sammy Finkelman (a64d54)

  186. Gerald A (a48c32) — 9/30/2016 @ 6:37 am

    In electing Lincoln the north was not deciding to go to war to end slavery.

    They were just deciding that anyone who said slavery was a good idea would not have any position in the executive branch of the federal government – probably forever – and that in other matters, like the tariff, the interests of slave states would be given no respect and hthings would tend to be decided against them. And pretty soon there’d be new states.

    Sammy Finkelman (a64d54)

  187. You miss the point, Sammy. Revisit comment 175.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  188. Item #285,650 why the current leadership must not be allowed to continue:

    http://russia-insider.com/en/war-against-syria-both-sides-go-plan-b/ri16743

    Once the US comes to realize that its policy sending MANPADs to Syria did not work, it will have only one last card to play: attempting to impose a no-fly zone over Syria.
    The good news is that judging by this exchange, US generals understand that any such US move would mean war with Russia. The bad news is that the Neocons seem to be dead-set on exactly that. Since such an event has now become possible, we need to look at what exactly this would entail […]

    To sum all this up I would simply say that if the Americans and their allies have a huge advantage in numbers, in terms of quality they are outgunned by the Russians pretty much at all levels. At the very least, this qualitative edge for the Russians makes the imposition of a (completely illegal!) no-fly zone over Syria an extremely risky proposition. Could they do it? Yes, probably, but only at a very substantial cost and at the very real risk of a full-scale war with Russia. As I have said it many times, Syria is smack in the middle of the CENTCOM/NATO area of “responsibility” end at the outer edge of the Russian power projection capability. Where Russia has tens of aircraft, the Americans can bring in many hundreds. So the real question is not whether the Americans could do it, but rather whether they are willing to pay the price such an operation would entail.
    At a political level it is important to repeat the following here:
    1) The US presence in Syria – all of it – is completely illegal and has no UNSC mandate
    2) Any and all US military operations in Syria are also completely illegal
    3) The imposition of a US enforced no-fly zone would also be completely illegal
    While this has not stopped the Empire so far, this might offer the Europeans a perfect excuse not to participate in any such operation. Of course, the Americans don’t need any European air force to try to impose a no-fly zone on Syria, but politically this would definitely hurt them. […]

    Conclusion:

    The risk of a US attempt to impose a no-fly zone over Syria will remain very real for the foreseeable future unless, of course, Trump beats Hillary to the White House. If Hillary wins – then that risk will sharply escalate. As for Obama, he probably does not want to stick a big stick in such a hornet’s nest right before leaving the White House (at least I hope so). Finally, regardless of who actually sits in the White House, the idea of imposing a no-fly zone over Syria would have to be measured against the so-called “Powell doctrine” of military interventions. So let’s see how this plan would measure up to the series of questions of the Powell doctrine:
    Q: Is a vital national security interest threatened?

    A: No
    Q: Do we have a clear attainable objective?

    A: Kinda
    Q: Have the risks and costs been fully and frankly analyzed?

    A: Yes, and they are potentially extremely high
    Q: Have all other non-violent policy means been fully exhausted?

    A: No
    Q: Is there a plausible exit strategy to avoid endless entanglement?

    A: No
    Q: Have the consequences of our action been fully considered?

    A: Yes, and the biggest risk is WWIII against Russia
    Q: Is the action supported by the American people?

    A: No
    Q: Do we have genuine broad international support?

    A: No
    As we can easily see, this plan fails to meet the minimal criteria of the Powell Doctrine on most points. So as long as somebody mentally sane is in the White House all this talk should remain what it has been so far – empty threats. Of course, if Hillary makes it into the White House and then nominates a maniac like Michèle Flournoy as Secretary of Defense along with a national security team composed of rabid warmongers then all bets are off.
    Please consider that before you go to vote.

    LBascom (2f3828)

  189. LBascom @ 197.

    This Russian propaganda is total nonsense.

    For one thing, the state of Israel has successfully imposed a de facto no-fly zone over pat of Syria that includes Russian planes.

    It does have one or two other elements that a U.S. no-fly zone would not have.

    There is an Isaeli vital national security interest threatened – that Hezbollah not set up shop and rockets and other things to attack Israel from southern Syria. Israel did not actually tell Russian planes not to fly. They just said they would not be stopped from bombing their targets, some waht may. Putin decided to get completely out of the way.

    Also, the Israeli goal is limited.

    Sammy Finkelman (a64d54)

  190. Could they do it? Yes, probably, but only at a very substantial cost and at the very real risk of a full-scale war with Russia.

    Putin, if he is trying to convince people of that, is bluffing. There is no vital Russian interest involved here.

    Sammy Finkelman (a64d54)

  191. The risk of a US attempt to impose a no-fly zone over Syria will remain very real for the foreseeable future unless, of course, Trump beats Hillary to the White House. If Hillary wins – then that risk will sharply escalate.

    That may be what Putin thinks, but Hillary really would attempt to lie her way out of making a decision. Maybe come to some fake agreement with Russia. Trump would make an agreement with Russia to “fight ISIS” and see Russia break some of its terms, angering career U.S. military. But he himself won’t get angry unless Putin insults him, or lies too much to him.

    As for Obama, he probably does not want to stick a big stick in such a hornet’s nest right before leaving the White House (at least I hope so)

    He might decide to do something and box Hillary in, if Russia persists in killing people, although he’s more likely to call on Turkey to admit refigees, and in eneral, continue his efforts to work out compromises with reality.

    Sammy Finkelman (a64d54)

  192. Breaking news: The Chicago Tribune has endorsed Gary Johnson.

    Nobody for McMullin?

    Sammy Finkelman (a64d54)

  193. ashton kutcher is in the back, you’ve been punked,

    http://www.weaselzippers.us/298617-gary-johnson-whos-harriet-tubman/

    narciso (d1f714)

  194. It’s charter/function/intent is essentially obsolete. It’s an expensive Cold War dinosaur. And serves only to ‘protect’ corporate interests.

    Leaving aside this decade’s various reincarnations of Upper Volta with rockets and the rather cavalier charge of “serving corporate interests” (which are?); if it hadn’t been for 9/11, Iraq, Libya, Syria, and yes, now Crimea, your argument might carry a little more weight.

    As it is, NATO command and training resources have permitted the US and its allies to fight with more agility and at less overall cost in CENTCOM and AFRICOM theatres than would otherwise be the case.

    Logistically speaking there is nothing “obsolete” about NATO and the access the Treaty provides to US forces in Europe and elsewhere. Throwing away NATO would mean essentially re-negotiating new force treaties and agreements with separate European states or bodies of states (e.g. Visegrad) – a process that would cost God knows how much and leave US force projection in a lurch. And no, “fantastic deals” won’t solve that diplomatic-legal-logistical hurdle in a hurry.

    JP (536e85)

  195. NATO is us and the brits, although if corbyn or mcdonnell get in increasingly less likely, sarkozy might contribute a little more, but that’s its mostly our ball, the coalition we employed in the guld, with spain and italy had a little more breath, but not much breath, if renzi falls to grillo it’s even less likely

    narciso (d1f714)

  196. If as you say NATO is mostly us and the Brits soon it shall be NAMO, North Atlantic Moslem Organization.

    Rev. Hoagie® (785e38)

  197. well there is that, furthermore the threat kues abroad than in st. denis and molenbeek, which is righ near nato headquarters

    narciso (d1f714)

  198. 149.This country has gone to crap.

    And with a USAToday under the arm, no doubt.

    Just be sure ALL of you wash your hands when you’re done.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  199. @ Patterico, #146:

    Why are you snarking at me? I was saying (at #130 and #141) that both Clinton and Trump are horribly unacceptable, and that their supporters are basically reduced to saying “Vote for our crappy candudate, because the other one is worse.” Did that suddenly become an unwelcome position on this blog?

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  200. @ LBascom, #183:

    The stinger on your comment to Patterico:

    You lie just like you claim Trump does. Must make you unfit to be a DDA.

    Here are three suggestions for things you should do, right now or very soon:

    #1: Read Bob23’s comment at #103.
    #2: Re-read Patterico’s comment at #125.
    #3: Look up the definition of “parody.”

    These three simple steps may help you avoid looking so silly in the future. Cheers!

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  201. that was an oversight I’m sure,

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/09/30/its-alive-fbi-files-reveal-how-clinton-server-was-created-in-k-street-lab.html

    so you think him phillip of macedon, set to ravage athens, or is it an orson scott card thing

    narciso (d1f714)

  202. @ SarahW, #189:

    It’s your vote, of course, and it’s still a nominally free country for at least a little while longer. So do as you see fit, not that you need my permission to do so.

    But I stand by what I said. A vote for either major-party candidate this cycle is a vote against America. I am sorry to see you’ve made that choice.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  203. @ narciso, #210:

    Yes, it’s definitely one of those two.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  204. trump is best choice duh

    happyfeet (c27aef)

  205. @ happyfeet, #213:

    Oh, knock it off already. You made a “Metropolitan” reference earlier. Anyone who still thinks you’re as stupid as you pretend to be hasn’t been paying enough attention.

    Demosthenes (09f714)

  206. Mother Jones and Organic Gardening endorsed Johnson.

    Pinandpuller (d64b08)

  207. of the three, I’m more partial to barcelona, although last days of disco, has it’s moments,

    narciso (d1f714)

  208. He’s 35, a natural born citizen, and has resided stateside all his life. According to the Constitution he’s qualified.

    I notice they didn’t have an issue with Obama’s 2 years of experience when taking the job.

    NJRob (26e665) — 9/29/2016 @ 8:14 pm

    Most people don’t get to use algebra in their everyday lives. Here’s your chance, Rob.

    2 = (x) times 0

    L.N. Smithee (b84cf6)

  209. If as you say NATO is mostly us and the Brits soon it shall be NAMO, North Atlantic Moslem Organization.

    What does this even mean? That NATO is turning Muslim, or that Britain is heading in that direction? What a strange thought.

    The second largest NATO contributor (in terms of standing forces) is a majority Muslim state, Turkey, and this has been the case for some time now.

    Depending on which demographic statistics one consults, NATO’s perennial eastern bugbear, Russia, also has Europe’s largest and fastest-growing Muslim minority (as a proportion of the total Russian population).

    JP (536e85)

  210. I’M NOT THAT INNOCENT

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  211. Most people don’t get to use algebra in their everyday lives. Here’s your chance, Rob.

    2 = (x) times 0

    L.N. Smithee (b84cf6) — 9/30/2016 @ 8:10 pm

    And you don’t seem to use logic in yours.

    They change the criteria based upon the candidate they prefer. Just ask McCain if his service and experience was important versus Obama then relate it to Bush v Kerry.

    P.S. the founding fathers were wiser than you as they didn’t require governmental experience because they understood the dangers of a Goliath government.

    NJRob (26e665)


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