Patterico's Pontifications

1/16/2016

Iran Releases Americans In Prisoner Swap

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:44 am



[guest post by Dana]

It is being reported that Iran has released four U.S. prisoners in a prisoner swap. For its part, the U.S. released 7 Iranians being held on sanctions-related charges:

Iran announced Saturday that it had released four Iranian-Americans as part of a prisoner exchange with the United States, a move that came as the United States and Iran were negotiating the final steps before the expected lifting of oil and financial sanctions related to its nuclear program.

*Roughly $150 billion…

Further:

Obama administration officials confirmed the prisoner-swap arrangement, calling it the result of diplomacy that intensified after the nuclear deal had been reached last July.

“Upon the conclusion of the nuclear deal we were able to accelerate our efforts,” one senior administration official said.

The dismantlement, mandated by the nuclear accord reached last summer, was finished within the past day, as Iran rushed to get the sanctions relief before elections next month. But swapping the prisoners — including a Washington Post reporter held on vague charges — also removed a major irritant between the United States and Iran.

The prisoners released include Jason Rezaian, The Washington Post’s Tehran correspondent; Amir Hekmati, a Marine veteran; Saeed Abedini, a pastor; and Nosratollah Khosrawi.

Interestingly:

Officials in Vienna said that the prisoner swap and the nuclear deal were related, but only loosely. Mr. Kerry clearly wanted to be able to tell many critics of the deal in Congress that he had gotten more than just the nuclear concessions; he wanted to make the case that the new channels of communication between Tehran and Washington were proving fruitful in other areas.

He argued last week that his relationship with Mr. Zarif helped resolve the case of the 10 American soldiers who were arrested after their two boats went into Iranian territorial waters. Now he can say that the prisoner swap, which has been the subject of secret negotiations for months, was another benefit.

–Dana

178 Responses to “Iran Releases Americans In Prisoner Swap”

  1. Good morning. And certainly very good news for the prisoners and their families.

    I’ll leave it at that for the moment.

    Dana (86e864)

  2. Starting here on the previous thread, narciso suggests that the taking hostage of the 10 sailors was a guarantee that the swap would go through:
    http://patterico.com/2016/01/15/donald-trump-the-very-embodiment-of-ted-cruzs-observation-about-new-york-city-values/#comment-1814761

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  3. more hostages would mean even MORE good news

    failmerica lol

    happyfeet (831175)

  4. My immediate gut read upon hearing this news was “Oh no, another Berghdahl deal.”

    If early reports are accurate (always a huge area of doubt) then we did a prisoner swap, exchanging criminals convicted of real crimes for hostages.

    There’s a reason it’s a bad idea to negotiate with terrorists, and that applies even moreso to the terrorist regime in Teheran.

    Arizona CJ (da673d)

  5. So, little by little the facts emerge. There was no mechanical failure and no navigational error, the refueling boat failed to arrive leaving the 2 American boats adrift and sitting ducks for the Iranians.

    Just like Benghazi this has the fingerprints of Obama, Valerie Jarrett, and (this time) John Kerry all over it.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  6. I must have missed this in the NYT report:

    Meanwhile, another U.S. official identified Brett McGurk, who is President Obama’s special envoy to the Coalition forces fighting ISIS, as the diplomat who spearheaded the secret negotiations with the Iranians.

    As part of the deal, McGurk offered clemency to seven Iranians, six of whom are dual U.S.-Iranian citizens who had been convicted or were awaiting trial in the U.S., the official said.

    The U.S. also removed Interpol “red notices,” which are warrants on behalf of a government, against 14 Iranians after the feds concluded attempts to extradite them “were unlikely to be successful,” they said.

    Officials did not identify any of the 21 Iranians.

    Dana (86e864)

  7. Keep your friends close and your frienemies hostage.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  8. /me tosses the BS flag…

    everything this fascist regime says is a lie.

    redc1c4 (2f1084)

  9. A Convenient Setup.

    n.n (498413)

  10. Man, that John Kerry’s something. So courageous! Such a mashed potato faced charmer.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  11. John Kerry: next Nobel Peace Prize winner.

    Dana (86e864)

  12. this is gonna make the perverted saudi royal trash act even *more* twitchy and erratic

    they have nobody to sit with at lunch anymores

    happyfeet (831175)

  13. Dana, I have friends who are bragging about how “well” this was handled “without a single shot.”

    I suspect that they would call nuking Tel Aviv “enhanced opportunities for urban renewal.”

    These friends of mine are progressive, pro-gay, pro-feminist…but they will not tolerate bad words about Iran.

    It’s weird tribalism, not intellectually moored thought.

    What a world.

    Simon Jester (2708f4)

  14. So, little by little the facts emerge. There was no mechanical failure and no navigational error, the refueling boat failed to arrive leaving the 2 American boats adrift and sitting ducks for the Iranians.

    So the captain of the refueling ship, his executive officer, and at least one petty officer, were in on the conspiracy, too. I think I know how they were suborned. Obama found out about their illegal adoptions of Irish children in South America and blackmailed them with it.

    You know, that Obama is turning out to be a real insidious saboteur and I can relate personally because I went grocery shopping without lining my hat with tinfoil and bought eggs but forgot to buy ham and I thought I picked up an apple pie but when I brought it home it turned out to be a peach pie because the mind-bending rays from the basement of Obama’s house in Hyde Park clouded my mind because Obama has secret shares in a peach plantation in Indonesia and he does not want me to eat ham because he is not only a Muslim but also a closet vegan like Adolf Hitler who really loved animals and was originally from Dusseldorf which is the word for Detroit in Medieval High Schwabian and Detroit is the epitome of limousine liberalism which Obama learned from Reggie Love while illegally betting on college basketball games.

    nk (dbc370)

  15. There is an app for that, nk.

    Simon Jester (2708f4)

  16. nk wins.

    Leviticus (c3e73d)

  17. nk, that has to be one of the finest run on sentences I’ve ever read. Kudos! And as a bonus it made perfect nonsense. Kudos again! I am laughing my butt off.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  18. Thank you, all.

    nk (dbc370)

  19. Reggie, Reggie, Reggie

    mg (31009b)

  20. nk @14, there may not have been a refueling ship. Other reporting mentions a refueling stop.

    Either one makes just as much sense. There are after all Saudi ports along the way where these boats could have pulled in.

    Joke about tin foil hats all you want. The fact is the various stories spewing forth from this administration about how those ten sailors, on two boats, make zero sense. It’s the opposite of sense. The Navy has operated in the Arabian Gulf, Persian Gulf, whatever, for over half a century. The USN simply doesn’t operate this way. As I’ve said in previous comments, if this happened due to incompetence then everyone from the Fifth Fleet commander on down must have been lobotomized.

    I’ve voice my various objections to the “official” explanations on other threads. To everyone’s relief I won’t rehash them all. But why were there only ten sailors on those two boats? A standard Navy watch is four hours on, eight hours off. These RCBs apparently stand port and starboard watches, which means there’s only one other sailor on the boat that relieves you. So you’re looking at 12 on, 12 off (And, if you’re interested, during those 12 hours “off” you do your day job; a port and starboard watch schedule is fine for small boats that spends a day or so at sea but on larger ships that deploy for months at a time it means you’ll be exhausted and on your knees within a month).

    But these boats weren’t manned with enough sailors to relieve anyone at their stations. I suppose the best analogy would be to air travel. Would you want someone who has been sitting in the pilot and copilot seat for 30 hours landing your the plane you’re flying on? Airlines are required to have relief crews for a reason. Fatigue and the resultant inattentiveness cause mishaps. Same goes for the Navy.

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2014/01/03/pilot-fatigue-mandatory-rest-new-faa-rules/4304417/

    …The new regulations, which don’t apply to cargo pilots, require that pilots get at least 10 hours of rest between shifts. Eight of those hours must involve uninterrupted sleep. In the past, pilots could spend those eight hours getting to and from the hotel, showering and eating.

    Pilots will be limited to flying eight or nine hours, depending on their start times. They must also have 30 consecutive hours of rest each week, a 25% increase over previous requirements…

    Do you think the crew of these small boats would be any less fatigued, given the pounding they would take from anything less than a glassy smooth sea? Yet they were supposed to go 30 hours or so and not make any mistakes.

    Actually stopping for fuel makes more sense in this regard than UNREPing for fuel, as you could also rest the crew in the protected waters of a harbor. But I digress.

    There’s so much more I could bring up. Look at my past comments on other threads if you care to. The bottom line is that if you wanted to lose two boats to the IRGCN, this is how you would do it. From beginning to end it’s like they were planning to lose these boats.

    How do these dots connect? Do these dots connect? I don’t know. I just know someone is
    lying to me.

    But I do know this. The Iranian “hardliners” (as if any other kind of Iranian holds public office) are saying the seizure of these two boats and their ten sailors is a message of warning to the “troublemakers” in Congress who would reimpose sanctions. And Prom Queen and his spokesholes are touting the release of these sailors and these hostages as a result of the same sanctions relief brought about by the nuclear give away.

    So they have the same interest in this regard. Cementing and making permanent the Iranian nuclear surrender.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  21. Nuthin’ from nuthin’, but Obama and every sh*theel he has working in his administration just plain suck. There is no escaping that conclusion, no matter how much tap dancing you do.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  22. 16. nk wins.

    Leviticus (c3e73d) — 1/16/2016 @ 1:04 pm

    I’m sure it would seem that way to the clueless.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  23. Simon… with friends like that, who needs the funny papers or comic books.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  24. Leviticus, forget the Navy stuff about watch standing. FARs, or Federal Airline regulations, requires aircraft to have one relief pilot on flights between 8 and 12 hours. Two relief pilots for flights over 12 hours. One of those pilots APIC (Acting Pilot in Command) qualified to relieve the pilot in command or captain.

    Would you be comfortable flying in a plane belonging to an airline that gives the finger to those regs? H3lls no! No relief pilots on flights of 15 to 30 hours.

    Because I wouldn’t have been comfortable in any way approving or God forbid joining with this 300nm boat movement from Kuwait to Bahrain. In fact I would have raise holy h3ll.

    Can you please explain how any other position is sane?

    Steve57 (17e737)

  25. the important thing is our sailors learned an important lesson in self-abasement, and they got home safe

    all the other failmericans would be wise to learn from their example

    happyfeet (831175)

  26. Our sailors have been getting plenty of lessons in self-abasement through the courtesy of the SAPRO and DEOMI. Among others.

    They really didn’t need any more from the Iranians.

    Perhaps is they had received lessons on the Code of Conduct, 3M, and weapons training this
    wouldn’t have happened.

    But priorities. Obama priorities. You’ll be glad to know your Navy is in the process of being exorcised and cleaned of the threat of the gender specific pronoun when it comes to naval
    ratings.

    After all, according to Prom Queen ISIS isn’t an existential threat. But judging by his actions the chance that a woman will suffer the indignity of becoming an Aviation Ordnanceman or a Corpsman is.

    Thank you, America, for driving home the point I wasted my time. I can hardly wait to be denied my pension because illegal aliens and Syrian “refugees” take priority.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  27. Don’t bother Steve, nk and his poodle are content to know little and cackle in the dark. Never wise up a sucker, they don’t like it.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  28. if we gave them ted cruz it was a fare trade! if we added ann the man coilter we made a profit on the deal!

    xeke (0711be)

  29. ropelight, I still want to hear how Leviticus, or nk for that matter, learned everything they needed to know about conducting operations in the NAG in law school.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  30. Neither one could distinguish between flotsam and jetsam without googling. Or know how to tell a boatswain from an airdale, or unravel CINCPACFLT.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  31. 8. /me tosses the BS flag…

    everything this fascist regime says is a lie.

    redc1c4 (2f1084) — 1/16/2016 @ 11:39 am

    Concur wholeheartedly, red. Remember the old 1970 movie Nam’s Angels? Biker gang becomes guerrilla fighter unit.

    Yeah, this is what it would look like in real life. Hand the keys to a couple of three million dollar boats to untrained gang members. And s*** just happened. And we’re supposed to belieber it.

    Nobody who has ever been there is buying anything this administration is saying.

    How the dots connect, or even if the dots connect, I can’t say. But I can say there are an awful lot more anti-American dots out there since Tiger Beat became preezy. And he seems happy about that development.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  32. Trump was like totally cool with Obama’s approach to the Middle East until just a few years ago.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  33. http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=18257

    PEARL HARBOR, Hawaii (NNS) — The U.S. Navy announced May 9 the completion of the investigation into the Jan. 8 accident aboard the submarine USS San Francisco (SSN 711) that claimed the life of one Sailor.

    San Francisco struck an undersea mountain about 360 miles southeast of its Guam homeport because its leaders and watch teams failed to develop and execute a safe voyage plan, the command investigation into the incident concluded.

    “The findings of fact show that San Francisco, while transiting at flank (maximum) speed and submerged to 525 feet, hit a seamount that did not appear on the chart being used for navigation,” the 124-page report said of the incident in the vicinity of the Caroline Islands…

    It’s extremely odd that when you look at the pics and video of the captured crew, the only one smiling is the one identified as the commander. CDR Mooney, CO of the San Francisco, was by all accounts a good guy, a conscientious and detail oriented skipper, and the result of Admiral’s mast was that while he was relieved of command he finished out his twenty and retired at his present rank.

    Because what he did could have happened to anybody. Given the charts. This is an example of
    *** happens. But not the capture of these two crews. That s*** did not just happen.

    It will be very interesting and telling to see what happens, if anything, to this CO.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  34. “Neither one could distinguish between flotsam and jetsam without googling. Or know how to tell a boatswain from an airdale, or unravel CINCPACFLT.”

    – ropelight

    To be fair, people mostly just google Navy stuff for all the jokes. You Navy folks are like lawyers!

    Well, not exactly like lawyers – the lawyer jokes are about lawyers *being* dicks, vs. … well, you know.

    Leviticus (c3e73d)

  35. Somewhere… beyond the bottom of the sea
    there’s a lawyer… waiting for me

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  36. Joke about tin foil hats all you want. The fact is the various stories spewing forth from this administration about how those ten sailors, on two boats, make zero sense.

    I believe I was the one who mentioned a tinfoil hat – it was aimed at myself, not you, Steve57, if that was what you (or anyone else) thought. I am sincere in saying that you had the right of it. Also my assessment that it had to do with a trade involving hostages. So it was hostages for hostages instead of arms for hostages – no dif for this administration. The sheer queerness if it all is bearing us out, don’t you think?

    felipe (56556d)

  37. zeke from Cabin Sh*t Creek

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  38. Leviticus @35, I’m not just “googling” Navy stuff.

    Look, maybe my suspicions are unfounded. But I found among all the supreme weirdness of this
    evolution the fact the identified commander of this two boat movement was the only guy grinning on the videos and pics.

    He’s the last guy who should be grinning. Even if he gets out Iranian captivity, naval law and custom requires he go before a Board of Inquiry. And by his own admissions he needs to be convicted by Court Martial.

    Maybe there’ll be a board of inquiry. Maybe it will recommend Court Martial. Maybe he’ll be convicted.

    But so far, if you know, things have been very, very weird.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  39. The Navy does not operate this way? Hey, I was around another time when it was in the Persian Gulf, swaggering around like a Quentin Tarantino character. It lost 37 crewmen on the USS Stark and then brought down a civilian airliner killing 290. In operations against Iran. On behalf of Iraq. And on behalf of the Saudis and the oil shippers. Hell, yes, the Navy operates this way. Like a bunch of juvenile delinquents put in charge of multi-million dollar boats and weapons systems.

    nk (dbc370)

  40. It’s weird tribalism, not intellectually moored thought.

    What a world.

    The left has made this pact with the devil of Islam and Iran and it is hard to explain. I guess Salmon Rushdie could explain it as he was a leftist who go zero support when the Iranians put out hit on him for his book. You know who offered him refuge and help ?

    He makes light of it but he was saved by the hated Margaret Thatcher.

    At least he appreciated her help and still is grateful for the help.

    Salman Rushdie says he remembers Margaret Thatcher with the same complicated feelings he had for her while she was alive: disagreement with her politics, but gratitude for her support when he was forced into hiding in 1989 after Iran’s Ayatollah Khomeini called for his death.

    “She had a great life, and offered protection for me when I needed it,” said Rushdie, interviewed Monday morning during a promotional tour for the film adaptation of his Booker Prize-winning novel Midnight’s Children.

    His leftist friends did nothing.

    If a critical mass of Muslims get here and start doing what they are doing in Cologne, the left will have to ask for help from those they hate. I doubt they have it in them,.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  41. I brought up CDR Mooney for a reason. CDR Mooney saved his ship. He was still relieved.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  42. Hell, yes, the Navy operates this way. Like a bunch of juvenile delinquents put in charge of multi-million dollar boats and weapons systems.

    Well, I guess ink’s Navy does. The people I know don’t but most of them are pilots and Marines.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  43. yes, back then we were tacitly fighting on behalf of Iraq, against Iran, the enemy of our enemy, but some of our new Baathist pals didn’t get the memo,

    narciso (732bc0)

  44. In deferrence to nk @40, I refer you to:

    http://www.casematepublishing.com/dlc/9781935149361/America's%20First%20Clash%20with%20Iran-Ch01.pdf

    He would have you believe we haven’t learned a d@mned thing since the USS Stark. 30 years, and we’re just too stooopid, aren’t we, sailors?

    Steve57 (17e737)

  45. I think in spite of nk’s strategic brilliance, Richard Fernandez has the best explanation of what Obama and Kerry call “strategy.”

    Like the doomed loser of the Battle of the Bulge, Obama does not seem to believe in arithmetic. He believes in drama. In historical pivots. The Iranian “nuclear deal” is being heralded in the rapturous style of a game changer. Obama may arithmetically be everywhere on the retreat. Iran is $150 billion richer, ISIS a little bigger, Syria a little more wrecked, Europe a little more overwhelmed. But none of this matter if the administration can create a ‘new atmosphere’. Newsweek notes that American contingency planners preparing for a Russian invasion of the Baltics note “that there are fewer U.S. forces in Europe today than there are policemen in New York City.” But this won’t really matter, if Obama can make the sympathetic connection.

    Eli Lake at the Chicago Tribune describes the price for these magic moments. ISIS outhouses are off limits in Afghanistan. “There are real restrictions about what they can do against the ISIS presence in Afghanistan,” according to Mac Thornberry, the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee.

    Those sailors would never have been allowed to shoot back. They were chess pieces in Obama’s “three dimensional chess” his advocates were always talking about.

    David Petraeus also understands it.

    At present, however, the modest number of U.S. and coalition troops in Afghanistan operate with one hand tied behind their backs — at a time when Afghan forces, though fighting hard, are struggling. That should be changed. We should unleash our airpower in support of our Afghan partners in the same way that we support our Iraqi and Syrian partners against extremists.

    At present, U.S. and NATO airpower in Afghanistan is used only to attack validated al-Qaeda targets, to counter specific individuals or groups who have attacked coalition forces previously and to respond directly to attacks on coalition forces. According to leaders on the ground, U.S. and NATO forces are otherwise not allowed to attack Taliban targets. The situation appears to be in flux in regard to Islamic State elements, but through 2015, they too could be targeted only under narrow circumstances.

    Fernandez puts it that we are not allowed to bomb ISIS outhouses.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  46. After I commented I discovered the link no longer works. Fortunately I downloaded book.

    Under a clear evening sky, on Sunday, May 17, 1987, the guided missile
    frigate USS Stark cruised slowly through the Persian Gulf. The Stark
    was on a routine patrol in international waters, some 80 miles northeast
    of Bahrain. Commanded by Captain Glen Brindel, 43, a 21-year Navy
    career officer, the 445-foot long ship carried a crew of 200 officers and
    men. Brindel’s tour as the Stark’s CO was rapidly winding down, with
    his replacement due on board in six days.

    …Not aware that anything special was going on, the Stark’s Executive
    Officer, Lieutenant Commander Ray Gajan walked into the CIC to discuss
    some administrative matters with Lieutenant Moncrief. Seeing the
    activity, he waited, watching events from a position near the chart table.
    About the same time that Lt. Commander Gajan entered the CIC, the
    Duty Officer on board the Middle East Force flagship, USS LaSalle,
    docked in Bahrain, radioed an inquiry to the Stark. He wanted to know
    if it was copying the details on the AWACS track of the Iraqi aircraft.
    Lieutenant Moncrief replied that it was, noting that the track had been
    evaluated as an Iraqi Mirage F-1EQ.

    Unknown to the U.S. forces tracking it, the Mirage had been specially
    modified to carry two French-made Exocet anti-ship missiles
    rather than its normal load of one Exocet.

    …Two of the deadly 15-foot long Exocet missiles, each tipped with a
    300-pound warhead, were now streaking toward the Stark. Their blue
    rocket exhausts reflected off the waters of the Gulf as they bobbed up
    and down slightly, maintaining a sea-skimming altitude about 10 feet
    above the surface. The frigate’s low alert status had not changed and
    off-duty crewmen, some in the last moments of their lives, remained settled
    in their bunks.

    …The Stark’s forward lookout had seen the flash of the first Exocet
    launch without realizing what it was. He then observed a small blue dot
    on the horizon, moving erratically up and down. The dot resolved itself
    into a blue fireball, which became steady as it neared the ship, coming
    in at an angle of 10 to 15 degrees off the port bow. Seconds before
    impact, the lookout realized just what the approaching fireball of missile
    exhaust meant and screamed, “Inbound missile! Inbound missile!”
    on the sound powered phone circuit.

    …The unexploded warhead itself
    came to rest in a passageway near that hole. Tragically, the still burning
    rocket motor came to a stop in a heavily occupied crew berthing area.
    Because the Exocet had been launched well short of its maximum range,
    it was still carrying a large quantity of solid rocket fuel when it hit.

    A few seconds before, the rocket motor had been powering the
    1,500-pound Exocet over the Gulf at 550 mph. Now, fueled by 300
    pounds of remaining propellant, it was spewing an intense jet of flame
    like a gigantic blowtorch inside the relatively small confines of the
    berthing compartment. What it was like for the men trapped in there is
    unimaginable. Sailors screamed as they were incinerated in their bunks…

    nk and Leviticuse would have you believe, I suppose that us knuckle dragging “juvenile delinguents” aren’t capable of learning from events. We aren’t capable of conducting risk assessments, developing countermeasures, improving damage control.

    We’re just all hopeless juvenile delinquents.

    Believe who you want.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  47. Are those the Marines that photographed themselves peeing on Taliban corpses, Mike K?

    Anyway, that some refueling ship captain and officers was in on the White House conspiracy to get these boats and sailors captured was not my suggestion. It was ropelight’s tinfoil-hat suggestion. ropelight is deep in Alex (sic) Jones’s Locker on a lot of conspiracy theories.

    nk (dbc370)

  48. peepee selfies ay caramba

    happyfeet (831175)

  49. yes back in the 80s, he called Maggie Magpie, and had the same unhinged reaction that the nutroots have had in the 00s, yet she let bygones be bygones,

    narciso (732bc0)

  50. To emphasize…

    Under a clear evening sky, on Sunday, May 17, 1987

    nk would have you believe us “juvenile delinquents” have been incapable of learning a d@mned thing in 30 years.

    On the other hand I’ve been saying the Samuel B. Roberts, the Stark, Praying Mantis, Market Garden, Game Warden, Leyte Gulf, et al have been part of my syllabus practically since I drew my first breath of air.

    My father being a USCG Radioman Senior Chief.

    Who are you going to believe?

    Steve57 (17e737)

  51. I apologize for my awkward phrasing. Obviously Market Garden, Game Warden, or Praying Mantis didn’t take place before I took my first breath. I meant they were part of a long string of maritime operations that began before I was born.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  52. If you care to read the book I downloaded when it was available for download, it’s here:

    http://www.amazon.it/Americas-First-Clash-Iran-1987-88-ebook/dp/B004DI7R3S

    Steve57 (17e737)

  53. I believe I have to go back to the Jewel and get that ham, and maybe an apple pie (although the peach was not too bad).

    But I totally agree that we should send out $100 million dollar planes, piloted by personnel it took $10 million to train, to drop a $1 million worth of bombs on outhouses. It makes no sense to focus those operations on enemy command centers, weapons dumps, vehicle depots, and troop concentrations.

    nk (dbc370)

  54. daddy tell me a boat story

    daddy tell me a story about the boats

    i promise to listen attentively and to go straight to bed directly thereafter

    happyfeet (831175)

  55. i hear costco has good ham but i let my membership go

    happyfeet (831175)

  56. Sorry, narciso, I missed your comment. Yes, you have it. But it used to be available online and I downloaded it.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  57. What are we arguing about??

    If these 2 boats and all of those in the chain of command above them were incompetent enough to get lost or run out of gas,
    a whole bunch of people need to get bounced out.

    “They” couldn’t even keep their story straight this time, unlike “the film”,
    was it mechanical failure, was it running out of gas, was it cloudy so they couldn’t see the stars when the batteries ran out in their GPS?

    I don’t think that is the case.
    What is the case, I have no idea.
    As I said before, maybe after one or more people in the know part from the service, maybe we will get a “13 Hours” like spilling of beans.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  58. 56. daddy tell me a boat story

    daddy tell me a story about the boats

    i promise to listen attentively and to go straight to bed directly thereafter

    happyfeet (831175) — 1/16/2016 @ 5:18 pm

    So, you want a bedtime story of how a sailor got horribly burned?

    That’s more than sick.

    I’ve got an inventory if you care to hear, but I don’t consider them fit for children.

    Not unless you consider flesh coming off in your hands as you try to help sailors emerge out of hatches as you try to them escape burning engine compartments childrens’ stories.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  59. If the Obama Administration can systematically strip American guards from the Diplomatic Mission in Behghazi, reroute the Ambassador to Benghazi instead of returning to Tripoli as originally planned, turn back rescue forces already on their way, and issue stand down orders to prevent help from coming from Tripoli or initially from the CIA Annex. Then blame the attack on a video tape, and lie to the parents of the honored dead…

    Wouldn’t it be consistent with their MO to pull back on a fuel delivery, or simply supply incorrect rendezvous coordinates?

    Wouldn’t that fit in with “mechanical problems” and “drifting into Iran’s territorial waters?”

    nk, I don’t wear a tin-foil hat, nor have I ever listened to Alex Jones, I know who he is, that’s about all the association I have with the man. You’ve been trying to paint me as some sort of kook for quite a while now. You look for opportunities to take cheap shots.

    Here’s a little something for you to chew on: an excerpt from Kipling’s Tommy

    Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
    Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap;
    An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit
    Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.
    Then it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, ‘ow’s yer soul?”
    But it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll,
    The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
    O it’s “Thin red line of ‘eroes” when the drums begin to roll.

    We aren’t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,
    But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
    An’ if sometimes our conduck isn’t all your fancy paints,
    Why, single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints;
    While it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Tommy, fall be’ind”,
    But it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind,
    There’s trouble in the wind, my boys, there’s trouble in the wind,
    O it’s “Please to walk in front, sir”, when there’s trouble in the wind.

    You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, an’ fires, an’ all:
    We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
    Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
    The Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.
    For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Chuck him out, the brute!”
    But it’s “Saviour of ‘is country” when the guns begin to shoot;
    An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
    An’ Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool — you bet that Tommy sees!

    ropelight (c6d308)

  60. no that’s definitely not a proper bedtime story

    happyfeet (831175)

  61. Alex Jones does stupid conspiracies, like the ‘lizard people running the world’ guy, David Icke

    narciso (732bc0)

  62. 59. What are we arguing about??

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84) — 1/16/2016 @ 5:27 pm

    I don’t know about anyone else, but what I’m arguing about is that if I’m to believe what happened actually happened, it’s like Fifth Fleet threw the entire book out and instead adopted the philosophy of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.

    You know, the part where they said “f*** it,” held hands, and jumped off a cliff.

    I’m arguing I have more than a little trouble believing this.

    As is always the case, your good sense and your good faith shines through. So I needed to give an honest answer

    Steve57 (17e737)

  63. But I see your point, Doc. It’s good news these hostages have been released.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  64. You look for opportunities to take cheap shots.

    Today, for sure. After you told DRJ to put down what she was smoking on the Chump thread, you get no respect.

    But tell our fellow commenters how a White House/State Department order can make a Navy refueling ship leave Navy “Tommies” high and dry without a long chain of corrupt Navy personnel, high, middle and low-ranking, and necessitating threats and blackmail to force them to forsake their duty and their fellow sailors.

    Or just go off on a tangent with another piece of doggerel. I request A.E. Housman — far superior t Kipling as a poet.

    nk (dbc370)

  65. is super-cheap to join prime today

    i tried to use that link to renew but it’s just for if you’re not a member already

    happyfeet (831175)

  66. #61
    ropelight, you’ll eventually learn that comments you write at blogs are archived and available for people to read twenty minutes later.

    Some of your self-aggrandizing denials and protestations are not of merely Orwellian proportions, but rather of OBAMA fortitude.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  67. outside of high castle and bosch, is that still on, what else is worth it?

    narciso (732bc0)

  68. The internet is your friend, happyfeet. You don’t need Amazon for anything. My shopping from Pink, Forever 21, Sports Authority, Nike, Macy’s, K-Mart, Home Depot, and other places, was direct from their websites. (Only Macy’s and Home Depot gave me free shipping, though.) And I prefer EPUB to Kindle for a reading format. Prime is a trap to make you buy into the Amazon culture.

    nk (dbc370)

  69. Steve57 (17e737) — 1/16/2016 @ 5:48 pm

    We agree,
    the given (changing) explanations are unbelievable.
    It seems self-evident,
    arguing about it is like arguing whether ice is cold.

    What did happen, hopefully one day we will find out.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  70. nk (dbc370) — 1/16/2016 @ 6:00 pm

    I have no idea what happened, and the WH making the boats run out of fuel does seem far fetched.

    If you ask me, what happened was that the Iranians captured 2 boats without justification and without resistance because the chain of command was told not to resist.

    But no one wants to say that.

    Just like no one wanted to say what happened at Benghazi.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  71. Has anyone seen coordinates for the seizure point? Or at least a specific location other than “near” Farsi island?

    I’m having grave doubts as to whether or not those boats were in Iranian territorial waters. The most recent excuse, which is that an expected refueling vessel did not arrive, is total and utter bunk. In order to believe it, one would have to believe that commanders of both boats scheduled a refueling rendezvous just outside Iranian territorial waters AND arrived at the refuel point totally empty, and then drifted into Iranian waters. Oh, and just to make it even better, they’d have had to START the voyage with half empty tanks: the craft pictured were CB90s, which have a range of 250 miles at 20 knots. They are claimed to have been heading from Kuwait to Bahrain. It’s approx 260 miles from Kuwait City to Bahrain (less if from south of there in Kuwait), which they could have done via either refueling or slowing down. Also, they’d need to be about 40 miles off course to come close to Iranian waters around Farsi island.

    Maybe we could go back to the former excuse, that one of the boats had mechanical trouble? That requires the belief that neither skipper thought to do what any boater would do; toss over a rope and tow.

    And one more problem; Farsi island is located about halfway between Iran and Saudi Arabia, in mid-gulf. So, any course from Kuwait to Bahrain would be between Saudi and Farsi island (a direct route would be far closer to the Saudi coast than the island). So, would someone mind explaining to me how, exactly, those boats, once adrift, managed to drift upwind and up current toward Farsi island to enter Iranian waters? (the wind was out of the WNW that day).

    I smell a rat.

    Arizona CJ (da673d)

  72. nk, DRJ claimed Trump had a cozy relationship with the media.

    I questioned the assertion:

    The media that’s been trying to 86 Trump since the day he announced, and every day since then?

    DRJ, put down the funny cigarettes and step away.

    ropelight (c6d308) — 1/16/2016 @ 8:28 am

    DRJ explained:

    Trump plays the media like a violin and they love/hate him for it. The media can’t get over its fascination with The Donald and that’s what makes them cozy.

    That made sense to me and I understood the point. We both moved on. The cigarette quip was an attempt at humor. So far, you’re the only one to object. Maybe DRJ will offer an opinion.

    Here’s my take: an exchange that didn’t involve you is now your excuse for attacking me. You’re on the prod, out to nitpick me in revenge for what? A mild joke? Even you aren’t that nutty.

    Are you a self-appointed Rescue Ranger? Protecting others without even being asked. A volunteer avenger? Or just another jerk making up excuses to justify the stupid habit of attacking people who disagree with you?

    ropelight (c6d308)

  73. ropelight, this is a blog for discussing and debating political issues. If you feel the kitchen is too hot, then kindly accept the exit over to your right. (Although, in your case, it’s probably to your LEFT.)
    But please don’t play the victim card. And don’t embarrass yourself by playing the “Why are you asking me tough questions—is it because you’re a secret Hillary Clinton plant!?” card.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  74. ACJ-
    Big stinking rat…

    MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84)

  75. The White House/State Department making the boats run out of fuel (your allegation) is not a nitpick.
    It’s a condemnation of the Navy chain of command down to the petty officer in charge of the refueling ship detail.
    Notwithstanding your Stand With Our Troops poeticising.
    DRJ is nice.
    I’m not.
    Her comments are a breath of fresh air.
    She has not commented here for a while.
    That was the first thread she commented on when she came back.
    She didn’t need that level of badinage from you or anyone.
    Mocking badinage.
    In my view.
    Which is what it is on my part, too.
    Badinage.
    Mocking badinage.
    Not revenge.
    At the level you set.

    nk (dbc370)

  76. CS, I wasn’t aware you were in charge here. Patterico says what this blog is for, not you, unless you’re taking over and I haven’t got the word yet.

    But, if you’re the same lying asshole chasing after me, looking for cheap shots like nk, and acting like a big shot, then please, consider taking your own advise.

    And, BTW, you quote me in #75:

    “Why are you asking me tough questions—is it because you’re a secret Hillary Clinton plant!?”

    I do recall asking if someone in authority here would take a look at you to determine if you tend to show up around election time (I recall someone almost as obnoxious as you with a similar shtick during the last election cycle). But I don’t recall writing

    “Why are you asking me tough questions…

    Please identify where I wrote the words you quoted. Or are you trying to put your words in my mouth again?

    ropelight (c6d308)

  77. WOW! Cardinals make a most improbable TD.

    felipe (56556d)

  78. Yep, felipe, reminds of the Immaculate Reception.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  79. the story clearly doesn’t hold together, and in light of certain events, it seems even more fanciful, note they didn’t give up Namazi, and aren’t even admitting Levinson is alive, the closest to to a Powers figure in this story,

    narciso (732bc0)

  80. Yeah, ropelight. I saw that live. Packers are choking. A couple of first downs and Green Bay is done.

    felipe (56556d)

  81. Look again, Cardinal’s coach just outsmarted himself. Packers are going to get the ball with 2 minutes on the clock and no times out.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  82. Now the Cardinals are choking. Not a pretty sight. I might not be so much a game won as lost.

    felipe (56556d)

  83. you’ve got fast fingers, rope.

    felipe (56556d)

  84. ropelight, in the past couple days, you’ve attacked nk, DRJ, Colonel Haiku, Leviticus, Charlie Brown, Ronald Reagan, Pope John Paul II, me, and Mother Teresa with foul language and low-class redneck truck driver insults.

    Do your medications need adjusting?
    (…reasonable people do have questions.)

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  85. OOOH, first time Rodgers goes down.

    felipe (56556d)

  86. A lot of no-calls in this game.

    felipe (56556d)

  87. Me too, asswipe, I asked you a question at #78:

    And, BTW, you quote me in #75:

    “Why are you asking me tough questions—is it because you’re a secret Hillary Clinton plant!?”

    I do recall asking if someone in authority here would take a look at you to determine if you tend to show up around election time (I recall someone almost as obnoxious as you with a similar shtick during the last election cycle). But I don’t recall writing

    “Why are you asking me tough questions…

    Please identify where I wrote the words you quoted. Or are you trying to put your words in my mouth again?

    How about it? Are you going to answer the question or not?

    ropelight (c6d308)

  88. Sorry, felipe, I got sidetracked by a cockroach. 5 seconds left, Hail Mary on the way.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  89. TD or not? felipe, you make the call. I say TD.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  90. OMG!! I am a GB fan, what do you think?

    felipe (56556d)

  91. Two miracles in a row? fingers crossed.

    felipe (56556d)

  92. Tied at 20 up. We’re going to overtime.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  93. Tied. Where are my heart pills?

    felipe (56556d)

  94. Incredibley…
    A 60 yd pass,
    Then a hail Mary…

    More improbable than a navy boat running out of gas…
    A coin flip replay????

    MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84)

  95. Quite a game.

    mg (31009b)

  96. Coin-toss controversy! LOL! Tempers are hot.

    felipe (56556d)

  97. Did you see what I saw?

    ropelight (c6d308)

  98. Oh yeah.

    felipe (56556d)

  99. Turn out the lights, the party’s over.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  100. congrats cardinal fans.
    you have a great team.

    mg (31009b)

  101. Yeah, Carson finally got his first post-season win. Congratulations to all Cardinals fans.

    felipe (56556d)

  102. That was a great call to shuttle-pass it to Fitzgerald. Unexpected.

    felipe (56556d)

  103. Y’know what? Larry’s interview convinced me to root for the Cards next week. He seemed emotional and humble – a lot of heart. I respect that.

    felipe (56556d)

  104. G’night all.

    felipe (56556d)

  105. ropelight,
    Your nutty lies about what other people say and your paranoid denials about what YOU write, as well as your silly predictions about football games are…well, nutty, silly, and paranoid.
    You even misquoted that particular Beatles song we were discussing the other day.

    Good Lord, what’s next—are you going to claim that the classic film “Casablanca” took place in Marrakesh?…or Cleveland?!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  106. R.I.P. Ted Marchibroda

    mg (31009b)

  107. c.s.
    are you a mother superior?

    mg (31009b)

  108. Sorry, I was watching the game.

    “Are those the Marines that photographed themselves peeing on Taliban corpses, Mike K?”

    I don’t know but I would be happy to give them a drink so they could pee more on them. The British used to bury Afghan fighters under pork bellies and that is what I would do.

    I assume you hate western values and would prefer to live a multi-culti life in Syria or Libya ? Go for it !

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  109. It’s not Christoph; he was a Trumpeteer. Lovie?

    nk (dbc370)

  110. mg, I just like having fun with ropelight. He takes himself sooooo seriously. And of course, he denies having written half the things that he writes, even though people cut & paste his quotes. But that’s half the fun—right? Trump is an entertainer. And so, too, are his acolytes.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  111. CS is Chicken Shit:

    The question is still right here in front of you CS: it’s at #78 and #89.

    “Why are you asking me tough questions…

    Please identify where I wrote the words you quoted. Or are you trying to put your words in my mouth again?

    How about it? Are you going to answer the question or not? This is the 3rd time I’ve had to ask. You quoted me – either identify where I wrote those words or admit they’re your words and you’re too cowardly to admit it.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  112. Of course, it might seem to you that I’m asking a tough question. LOL.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  113. I have a comment in moderation. I called CS Chicken Sh*t. Then repeated the question at #s 78 and 89. I also asked if he was too cowardly to answer.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  114. No, America is my country. I claim ownership. (Of my little piece of it, at least.) And I’m not afraid of the changes and challenges it faces. It’s not a retirement home.

    nk (dbc370)

  115. So you just randomly showed up here claiming to be a Cruz supporter?

    JD (b3cb62)

  116. oh.

    mg (31009b)

  117. ropelight, there isn’t anything tough about your goofy questions. It’s just your dodgy, evasive, Clinton-esque answers that leave people saying, “Huhhhhh???? Whattttt????”

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  118. Then answer the question. Or admit you’re a phony jackass.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  119. I see lots of tap dance and double talk, but no answers. Are you still here?

    ropelight (c6d308)

  120. CS, this is a poor showing. Ted Cruz wouldn’t make stupid statements then run and hide. I’ll bet he’d be ashamed of you if he knew what you were doing in his name.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  121. Maybe you’re suddenly in ill health. I can’t wait around anymore. Have a glass of warm milk.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  122. In an Oscar-nominated performance by someone claiming to be an honest person, ropelight said in a thread on Friday, January 16, “CS, I never said Cruz had divided loyalties. That’s another of your straw men.”

    But literally ten minutes earlier, ropelight wrote, “You’ve got a problem there CS, for days I told you repeatedly, maybe as many at 10 to 15 times that I thought Hillary, Cruz, and Rubio all suffered from divided loyalties or the potential for them.”

    ———————

    Seriously, ropelight, you claim you never claimed that Ted Cruz had “divided loyalties,”…except that’s precisely what you claimed to have told me TEN OR FIFTEEN TIMES. Either you don’t understand the basics of how internet threads are preserved, or you’re totally schizo. Either way, your relationship with truth and accuracy is compromised. In other words, you’re a liar—but a talented one!

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  123. Wtf?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  124. When IS/ISIL/ Desh was chopping off heads and crucifying “the wrong thinkers” as instructed by the Koran, the vast majority of Muslim were not heard from. If we, the USA Military were to do the exact thing to those we viewed as ” wrong thinkers” the worlds Muslims would scream from every Mosque but soon retreat home. Islam is not a moral or ethical ideology. So lets starts offing them and stop worrying about what they believe, think or might do. Cut off enough heads and the cowards will stay at home and only beat their multiple wives. Islam is the problem. Read the Koran and tell me I am wrong. I have done so.

    highpockets (66b04b)

  125. mother superior jumped the gun
    mother superior jumped the gun

    mg (31009b)

  126. Reuters gloats:

    Israel licks wounds as Iran sanctions end, looks to future U.S. aid

    happyfeet (831175)

  127. 129. $100 Billion and quadrupled oil sales will be devoted first to disemboweling the Sauds, reducing Arabia to “burning fields of pitch”.

    http://shoebat.com/2014/03/17/actual-literal-islamic-human-slaughterhouses-christians-discovered/

    “This is the reality of Islam, it is a pagan and utterly depraved and sadistic religion. It takes the soul of a man and purges any remnants of human affection from his very being.

    The anteroom of end of the age.

    DNF (755a85)

  128. $100 Billion and quadrupled oil sales will be devoted first to disemboweling the Sauds, reducing Arabia to “burning fields of pitch”

    i’m cool with that

    happyfeet (831175)

  129. 125. Anyone who needs more than once to destroy in rebuttal someone accused of idiocy is doing a really sh!tty job.

    No regard for you.

    DNF (755a85)

  130. Those videos should be shown to every person who believes we have some sick obligation to allow moslems in America. This is all they have ever brought with them wherever they went throughout history and now they’re here. Throw them out, now.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  131. 131. Yeah and the DC phuckwits sit on their hands, would be nice.

    DNF (755a85)

  132. New day, same old misdirection from Chicken Sh*t. Answer the question asswipe, or admit you made up the quote you tried to attribute to me. It isn’t exactly plagirism, it’s worse.

    A plagirist takes the words of others and claims them as his own. But, you take your own words and attribute them to me in a direct quote. See #s 78, 89, 115 if it ever makes it out of moderation, 117, and 122, 123, and 124 (my personal favorite).

    That’s gross dishonesty. Yet you seem proud of your misbehavior. Up thread at #114 you admitted attempting to provoke me (by lying and false accusation) for your own sick amusement. Why – because you claim I take myself sooooo seriously. Now, how’s that for a useless twisted little puke’s way of annoying others.

    mg, I just like having fun with ropelight. He takes himself sooooo seriously. And of course, he denies having written half the things that he writes, even though people cut & paste his quotes. But that’s half the fun—right? Trump is an entertainer. And so, too, are his acolytes.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 1/16/2016 @ 9:11 pm

    Sooooo, Chicken Sh*t, you’ve shown your ass. You’re nothing but a stupid blowhard, full of false accusation, meanness, and self-revealing idiot rationalizations.

    Now for your phony accusation repeated ad nauseaum (most recently at #126):

    In an Oscar-nominated performance by someone claiming to be an honest person, ropelight said in a thread on Friday, January 16, “CS, I never said Cruz had divided loyalties. That’s another of your straw men.”

    But literally ten minutes earlier, ropelight wrote, “You’ve got a problem there CS, for days I told you repeatedly, maybe as many at 10 to 15 times that I thought Hillary, Cruz, and Rubio all suffered from divided loyalties or the potential for them.”

    Notice how you failed to highlight the last few words? You know, the ones that apply to both Cruz and Rubio: …or the potential for them.” (divided loyalties)

    But you already know that. And so do I.

    Now how about answering the question you Chicken Sh*t annoying stupid little coward?

    ropelight (bb228b)

  133. cruz is so divisive

    this is how i know he doesn’t walk with the Lord and Ronald Reagan like how Mr. The Donald does

    i’m afraid he’s gonna tear america apart

    where dem pups

    happyfeet (831175)

  134. I respect Ted Cruz. He stands tall, talks the talk and walks the walk. Not like Chicken Sh*t the coward responsible for undermining support for Cruz by his towering dishonesty and silly lilliputian obsessions.

    ropelight (bb228b)

  135. http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/01/a-note-on-the-hostage-deal.php

    Powerline is reporting that one of the Iranians traded had an extensive resume of hacking US Military secrets

    joe (debac0)

  136. sandersnista oy! a man of the proletariat! you want he should give you new car? free college? is good, no?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  137. If an administration wished to help an enemy every step of the way, what would it have done differently?

    http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/06/04/Fog-War-US-Has-Armed-ISIS

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  138. A Sunday Grudge Match Fight To The Death, ropelight?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  139. I’m up for it, but since my main antagonist has already thoroughly disgraced himself there’s not really much of a point left to address. He’s a low down two-faced belly crawlin’ yellow dog.

    Besides, others have begun to lose patience. (For that I apologize) For me, this has been deja vu all over again. Seems I’ve been down this dead end street before.

    I’ll take a wild guess and suggest that Chicken Sh*t just might be an asshole I’ve crossed swords with before. If he’s from Iowa then I’ve got him nailed.

    ropelight (bb228b)

  140. ropelight-
    My home ground is 22 miles north of the iowa Mn. border. What they call the Iowa Great Lakes is a disgrace to all other lakes. 2 1/2 pint sized ponds. Iowaegians are 1 corn row short of a bushel.

    mg (31009b)

  141. mg, I usually like the people I meet from Iowa, I grew up next door to a fine Iowa family. Now, I live in SW Florida and again next door to an extended farm family’s winter home. Over the period from Thanksgiving to Easter about a dozen families occupy the property. They are without exception kind, generous, and intelligent people.

    But, the other side of the coin was revealed on Dana’s old blog Common Sense Political Thought. A couple of scumbag Iowa assholes misbehaved so egregiously that Dana had to ban them, shut down his blog, and open again under a new name: First Street Journal. Incidentally that’s about the same time Perry got himself banned.

    Anyway, Chicken Sh*t’s shtick is so similar I get the feeling he just might be one of the Iowa assholes. I could be wrong, but the MO is damn sure the same. If he’s not one of ’em he’s a sister under the skin.

    ropelight (bb228b)

  142. I’m pretty sure we’re going to need a dedicated NFL thread today. I’m watching the Carolina/SeaHawks game and it’s interesting enough to be worthy of comment, and there’s another game to follow. So, how about it?

    ropelight (bb228b)

  143. Seattle is getting creamed. Carolina is sky high.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  144. Yes, indeed. Panther love…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  145. WOW! I just tuned in. 24 to ZERO? what a blow out.

    Yikes! Now it is 30. Dead team walking….

    felipe (56556d)

  146. The Carolina line has pushed the Seattle line all over the place. Wilson seems to have adjusted and gotten some yardage but the coverage is too good and he does not have enough time.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  147. 43. …Well, I guess ink’s Navy does. The people I know don’t but most of them are pilots and Marines.

    Mike K (90dfdc) — 1/16/2016 @ 4:37 pm

    Small boat operators don’t work this way. Or didn’t.

    http://fas.org/irp/program/core/jmcis-tm.htm

    …The JMCIS Tactical/Mobile (JTM) Systems are nodes of the Navy Command and Control System (NCCS) Ashore, and include both fixed sites (Tactical Support Centers (TSCs)) and mobile components (Mobile Operations Control Centers (MOCCs), Mobile Ashore Support Terminals (MASTs) and Mobile Integrated Command Facilities (MICFACs)). These centers provide the Maritime Sector Commander (Ashore), the Naval Component Commander (Ashore) or the Naval Liaison Element Commander (Ashore) with the capability to plan, direct and control the tactical operations of Joint and Naval Expeditionary Forces and other assigned units within his respective area of responsibility…

    I had to look it up. Things keep morphing, mostly because the services need to justify budgets. In a past life I worked with a crew that operated the MAST before it got folded into JMCIS-TM, It was essentially a headquarters unit for harbor defense.

    Harbor defense basically involves constructing a 360dg dome over a harbor. Landward side you have the Army and Marines, overhead you have the aircraft of all the services, and when and where things get wet you have large and small boats of the Navy and Coast Guard.

    So while I wasn’t a small boat operator myself, I’m familiar with how they work. And what we’re being told isn’t it.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  148. if the persians compromised the starboard aft side’s floating mechanisms what assist in buoyancy and propellering then there’d probably be trace evidence of this left inside the shafts of the (possibly) compromised communication/targeting units i think

    happyfeet (831175)

  149. plus i’m making beans

    happyfeet (831175)

  150. Go Seahawks, go…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  151. I’m not going to lie to you all. I have no idea what the h3ll this cannon or gatling gun is.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/US_Navy_111207-N-PC102-143_The_crew_of_Riverine_Command_Boat_%28RCB%29_804%2C_assigned_to_Riverine_Squadron_%28RIVRON%29_1%2C_conducts_patrol_and_interdiction.jpg

    I’ve fire lots of guns. Never that.

    But I do know a couple of things. One, I know a weapon when I see it. And I know when it isn’t there. Maybe my eyes are bad, but I don’t see that weapon or any other remotely controlled weapon in any of the pics or videos the Iranians released. Maybe someone with younger eyes can correct me, but I just don’t see it.

    Two, I know why it’s important. The crew inside the cockpit would operate them. Which means A) they’re gyro-stabilized maximizing accuracy considering you’re shooting from one moving, rocking platform to another and B) nobody has to expose themselves to enemy fire. The boat is armored. As long as everybody stays inside they’re protected to a large degree from the small arms of the IRGCN.

    All I know is what I’m being told just doesn’t make sense.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  152. 153. Go Seahawks, go…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 1/17/2016 @ 11:49 am

    Sometimes I wish I could get back into watching football. Al Davis and too many years overseas in the far east soured me on the sport. Monday Night Football was Tuesday Night Football unless you watched the live feed at early AM.

    Superbowl parties were kinda fun. You gathered at the O club at something like 4:00 AM to watch it on a Monday morning, live. Then later you showed up for work. It’s against naval regulations to be drunk on duty. But one time a year as long as it wasn’t too obvious and you weren’t a hazard to safety of a vessel the DADT rule applied.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  153. cruz sounds like an idiot drama queen

    “We released seven terrorists who had helped Iran with their nuclear program, and we agreed not to prosecute another 14 terrorists for doing the same thing,” Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz said on Fox News Sunday.

    “That’s 21 terrorists helping Iran develop nuclear weapons that they intend to use to try to murder us.”

    i’m so over him anymore

    this whole idea that roll-over kneel-down cowardly failmerica is somehow worth wasting a nuclear bomb on is hilarious

    it’s so funny i forgot to laugh

    HAHAHAHAHA

    happyfeet (831175)

  154. (i remembered at the last second)

    happyfeet (831175)

  155. 156. …this whole idea that roll-over kneel-down cowardly failmerica is somehow worth wasting a nuclear bomb on is hilarious

    it’s so funny i forgot to laugh

    HAHAHAHAHA

    happyfeet (831175) — 1/17/2016 @ 12:28 pm

    Yes, it’s almost hilarious. Yet I can’t find anything funny about it. CAIR is a Hamas-linked Muslim Brotherhood front group. The testimony and exhibits the DoJ presented at the Holy Land terror funding trial (which ended in convictions, if anyone is keeping score) confirms this. CAIR, Hamas, and the MB are one and the same.

    And the Democrats invited CAIR to the SOTU. And if you want be called names like bigot, racist and Islamophobe, join me in pointing it out.

    It’s all so funny I forget to laugh.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  156. julian castro is a lot of things but easy on the eyes isn’t one of em

    he’s not just ugly he’s a very particular and specific kind of ugly like that smarmy prissy kid you hated in high school

    happyfeet (831175)

  157. Mr. 57 we’re very close to that point where we have to tend to our own gardens and hope for the best but plan for the worst

    and the worst is gonna be really really sad and a lot of people are gonna be grievously hurt in these dark days what are upon us

    happyfeet (831175)

  158. I can’t tend my own garden, Mr. Feets, the EPA declared it a federally protected wetland.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  159. Plus my own garden doesn’t bake gay wedding cakes, which despite 200 years of precedent is now a violation.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  160. well you’ll just have to suck it up mister

    happyfeet (831175)

  161. My ten gauge says I don’t have to suck anything up.

    My 1917 naval cutlass and my K-Bar confirm this assessment.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  162. ok well use your best judgement

    this is a song about a gringo honeymoon it’s called “gringo honeymoon”

    happyfeet (831175)

  163. *judgment* i mean i did a misspeller there

    happyfeet (831175)

  164. This is an Elvis impersonator and a reggae band singing Lead Zeppelin.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CO7FPU7a2g

    Dread Zeppelin – Immigrant Song

    Steve57 (17e737)

  165. it’s good for absolutely nothing ladies and gentlemen

    love it

    happyfeet (831175)

  166. #155, Steve, looks like it might be an M230 chain gun.

    ropelight (bb228b)

  167. Thanks, ropelight.

    I think some of the information I possess is still valid.

    For instance, I was on active duty when COMMIDEASTFOR morphed into a numbered fleet. And I was still a reservist when Naval Coastal Warfare was dismantled and the first rays of what became the Naval Expeditionary Combat Command (NECC) started to eke out like the sun over the eastern horizon.

    And this most recent incident has me thinking, WTFO?!?!! Did you not get the package we gave you at the change of command?

    Or, it’s worse. I’m leaning toward it’s worse.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  168. If I wasn’t clear, I’m not going to pretend to be an expert on a weapon I haven’t fired let alone one I never knew was in the inventory.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  169. The following is from William Hamilton, JD, PhD, Central View dated 1/17/16. Best overview I’ve seen yet.

    Iranian coup: A tale of two U.S. Navy vessels

    (CENTRAL VIEW for Monday, January 18, 2016

    Last week, the U.S. Navy dispatched two of its fearsomely armed Riverine Command Boats (RCBs) to patrol between Kuwait and Bahrain. Somehow, the RCBs were seized by the Iranian Navy; the crewmembers arrested, and — even though the U.S. and Iran are not technically at war — treated as Prisoners of War (POWs). How could this happen?

    The Swedish-designed, U.S.- manufactured RCBs cost $2.8 million per copy. Each RCB carries six machine guns, to include a .50 caliber Gatling gun, plus grenade launchers. Covered with armor plating able to deflect AK-47 fire, the RCB’s 49.4 mile-per-hour top speed means RCBs can outrun every known surface warship.

    To guard against surprise attack, RCBs carry the Sea FLIR III infrared sensor system, thermal imaging, a laser rangefinder, and long-range radar. Navigation is by a top-of-the line GPS and chart plotter system, along with traditional chart and compass back-up. The RCB’s world-wide communications gear nets with ships, aircraft, and ground forces.

    Operating in pairs, the RCBs provide each other with mutual fire support. If one RCB is disabled, the other RCB can tow it to safety. Thus, the question arises: How could two RCBs lose their ability to navigate at the same time and stray into Iranian waters? And how could two world-class weapons platforms be seized by the, arguably, inferior Iranian Navy?

    Apparently, one of the RCBs had a propulsion problem and radioed U.S. 5th Fleet in Bahrain for assistance. Congressman Louis Gohmert (R) of Texas claims the Obama White House intervened, asked the Iranian Navy to provide assistance, and ordered the U.S. 5th Fleet to stand down.

    By long-standing naval custom, disabled boats found in territorial waters are rendered assistance, and simply escorted back into international waters. Their crews are not subjected to POW treatment or put on world-wide video display, looking like criminals.

    But, instead of being treated as distressed vessels exercising the mariners’ right of innocent passage, the Iranians arrested the crew members, treated them as POWs, and, somehow, got the officer-in-charge to make filmed statements praising the Iranians and saying the treatment the crew received was: “Fantastic.”

    Absent Congressman Gohmert’s explanation — citing White House intervention — it appears Articles II and V of the U.S. military’s Code of Conduct were violated. Article II states: “I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.” Article V reads: “When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number, and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the best of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.”

    Alternatively, could it be that the White House-imposed Rules of Engagement (ROE) robbed the RCBs of their “means to resist”? Were the RCB’s awesome weapons even permitted to be loaded? Congress should demand to see the Operations Order under which the two RCBs left Kuwait for Bahrain and demand copies of all the communications between the RCBs, U.S. 5th Fleet, and the White House. Meanwhile, the RCB crews are left twisting in the wind.

    Nationally syndicated columnist, William Hamilton, is a laureate of the Oklahoma Journalism Hall of Fame, the Colorado Aviation Hall of Fame, the Oklahoma University Army ROTC Wall of Fame, and is a recipient of the University of Nebraska 2015 Alumni Achievement Award. He was educated at the University of Oklahoma, the George Washington University, the Infantry School, the U.S Naval War College, the University of Nebraska, and Harvard University.

    ropelight (bb228b)

  170. Good find, ropelight.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  171. I would add that helos have largely made these boats obsolete.

    Sit down and go through the intellectual exercise. What are you trying to do? What can do it?

    When is the last time you heard of an SH-60 providing this much drama? (Yes, I know the Marine Corps helos colliding off Hawaii; the mission is dangerous and so is training for it.)

    What can a small boat give you that a helo can’t? The answer will be, sometimes, something. Making the case for the small boat. But a lot of times the helo comes out on top. I’m not for eliminating the small boat from the inventory. Just for a shake-up that leans more heavily on aviation.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  172. US military releases 1st account of sailors’ Iran detention

    The account U.S. Central Command offered on Monday adds some detail to what was already known about the incident, but it leaves unanswered such key questions as why the boat crews deviated from their planned route and entered Iranian territorial waters.

    happyfeet (831175)

  173. Like I said before,
    I’ll wait until some of those involved leave the service.

    MD in Philly (at the moment not in Philly) (deca84)

  174. the same centcom, that was caught ‘fixing’ the progress against islamic state,

    narciso (732bc0)


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