Patterico's Pontifications


Donald Trump: The Very Embodiment Of Ted Cruz’s Observation About New York City Values

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:43 pm

[guest post by Dana]

Last night at the debate, Ted Cruz caused a firestorm when he made this sound observation:

“Listen, there are many, many wonderful, wonderful working men and women in the state of New York. But everyone understands that the values in New York City are socially liberal or pro-abortion or pro- gay-marriage, focus around money and the media.”

Donald Trump bristled and invoked 9/11 to give a passionate defense of New York:

“New York is a great place. It’s got great people, it’s got loving people, wonderful people,” Trump said. “When the World Trade Center came down, I saw something that no place on Earth could have handled more beautifully, more humanely than New York… And the people in New York fought and fought and fought, and we saw more death, and even the smell of death. Nobody understood it. And it was with us for months, the smell, the air.”

“And we rebuilt downtown Manhattan, and everybody in the world watched and everybody in the world loved New York and loved New Yorkers. And I have to tell you, that was a very insulting statement that Ted made,” he added.

But the funny thing is, during an interview with Tim Russert on Meet the Press in 1999, Trump himself reinforced Cruz’s observations:

RUSSERT: Do you think gays should be allowed to be married?

TRUMP: It’s something I haven’t given lots of thought to. I live in New York City, there is a tremendous movement on to have and allow gay marriage. It’s just something that is too premature for me to comment on.

RUSSERT: How about gays serving in the military?

TRUMP: It would not disturb me. I mean, hey, I lived in New York City and Manhattan all my life, so my views are a little bit different than if I lived in Iowa, perhaps…

Then there was this exchange:

RUSSERT: Partial birth abortion. Eliminating of abortion in the third trimester. Big issue in Washington. Would President Trump ban partial birth abortion?

TRUMP: Well, look, I’m very pro-choice…and again, it may be a little bit of a New York background, because there is some different attitude in different parts of the country, and you know, I was raised in New York, and grew up and work and everything else in New York City.

RUSSERT: But you would not ban it.

TRUMP: No…I am pro-choice in every respect as far as it goes, but I just hate it.

The next political ad for the Cruz campaign just wrote itself.

Today Ted Cruz “apologized”:

“I apologize to the hard working men and women of the state of New York who’ve been denied jobs because Gov. Cuomo won’t allow fracking,” Cruz continued. “I apologize to all the pro-life and pro-marriage and pro-Second Amendment New Yorkers who were told by Gov. Cuomo that they have no place in New York because that’s not who New Yorkers are. I apologize to all of the small businesses who’ve been driven out of New York City by crushing taxes and regulations.

“I apologize to all of the African-American children who Mayor de Blasio tried to throw out of their charter schools instead of providing a lifeline at the American dream. And I apologize to all the cops and the firefighters and 9/11 heroes who had no choice but to stand and turn their backs on Mayor de Blasio because Mayor de Blasio over and over again stands with the looters and criminals rather than the brave men and women of blue.”

Further, Cruz’s observation about New York values certainly doesn’t appear to have hurt him with New York GOP voters:



UPDATE BY PATTERICO: I think Cruz stumbled with his answer. It should have been more nuanced and focused, and he should have seen the 9/11 response coming and dealt with that in his initial remarks. You don’t just write off a huge chunk of millions of people. In a way, that was Mitt Romney’s problem with his 47% comment. Cruz is running to be president of all America. He needs to keep that in mind.

150 Responses to “Donald Trump: The Very Embodiment Of Ted Cruz’s Observation About New York City Values”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (86e864)

  2. That was then. This is now. What Trump said 17 years ago isn’t terribly relevant. I realize that annoys and confounds those of you who detest Trump, but that is just the way many of us see it. The world has changed, and the rules that govern politics have likewise changed.

    Mark Johnson (2fbaa2)

  3. Mark Johnson,

    I don’t detest Trump. I think that he has been useful to politics by pushing open doors that the GOP has been to timid to go through, and he has certainly expressed and tapped into a lot of the anger that Republican voters feel. While I don’t believe he would be a good president, I do not hold him in any contempt.

    I believe Trump answered the questions honestly in the interview, and that it reflected exactly what Cruz described. Trump himself invoked “New York” to explain/justify his views.

    Dana (86e864)

  4. I don’t want this to end as trump keeps making team republican look stupid and say nasty things about its base.

    mg (31009b)

  5. Before trump exits, I would love to see him rip traitor ryan and mitch the …..

    mg (31009b)

  6. 4. megadittoes

    DNF (755a85)

  7. These are the New York values Cruz I’m sure intended to talk about.

    ALBANY – Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo says “extreme conservatives” don’t fit in with most New Yorkers.

    “If they are extreme conservatives, they have no place in the state of New York,” Cuomo said in a radio interview Friday.

    Cuomo defined “extreme conservatism” as being “anti-gay” by opposing same-sex marriage rights, opposed to abortion rights and favoring legalization of assault weapons. Cuomo officials later said the governor’s remarks were aimed at “extremist” conservative Republican candidates

    How nice of Cuomo to clarify. He didn’t mean ordinary peasants like me. We can be conservative. He just meant while peons who are conservative may have place in New York, that’s only so long as we don’t dare to expect to have our own political representation.

    New York values = a one party state leftist dictatorship.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  8. Cruz has shown himself to be very clever and smart in this race. His campaign has hit the mark with its ads, and no doubt will use this old interview along with last night’s defense in a new campaign ad. The question is, will Trump’s emotional invocation of 9/11* be enough to render the inevitable ad ineffective??

    *Given that Trump knew this interview was out there, why do you think he grabbed onto 9/11 as his defense of NYC???

    Dana (86e864)

  9. Given that Trump knew this interview was out there, why do you think he grabbed onto 9/11 as his defense of NYC???

    Dana (86e864) — 1/15/2016 @ 7:11 pm

    That’s whats’ known as misdirection.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  10. Steve57,

    Don’t forget what happened to the NYC gay hoteliers who dared to host a dinner for Cruz, as well as make a campaign donation.

    Dana (86e864)

  11. That’s whats’ known as misdirection.


    Dana (86e864)

  12. None of this amounts to a hill of beans. The real issue for Conservatives is can they displace the GOP establishment and finally nominate a candidate who’ll actually fulfill campaign promises after assuming office. Someone who won’t turn their backs on the voters who elected them.

    You know, a candidate who will represent the people. Wouldn’t that be refreshing?

    ropelight (e4137c)

  13. ropelight,

    Isn’t that precisely why this matters? We absolutely must displace the GOP establishment and select a candidate that will do just that as well as being faithful to his promises once in office. Yes, a candidate that will represent the will of the people. But, as you know, not all candidates are created equal, and it is things like this that help make the distinction needed in order to select the candidate most likely to bring about that which you mention.

    It is my belief that what is typically dismissed as not amounting to a hill of beans may not in the immediate, but in the big picture, long-term, it does because it all adds up. And it reflects the candidates in a more distinctive way.

    Dana (86e864)

  14. I’m a Cruz supporter (leaning, anyway) and when I read this post, it actually improved my opinion of Trump (setting aside the fact he may well have flipped on some of these in the last 17 years).

    I’ve long been pro gay marriage, so Trump’s position on that does not exactly send me screaming for the exits.

    Abortion? I prefer Trump’s 1999 stance to Cruz’s current one, or for that matter Trump’s current one. In fact, Trump’s 1999 stance is identical to my current one; I despise abortion, but would not ban it. Cruz’s absolutist position on abortion is one of my big dislikes about him (for one thing, it’s a burden in November).

    So, what were Cruz’s positions on things 17 years ago? Probably different on some things, as were mine.

    Arizona CJ (da673d)

  15. I have to ask, Arizona CJ, what makes you lean toward Cruz then?

    Dana (86e864)

  16. 10. Steve57,

    Don’t forget what happened to the NYC gay hoteliers who dared to host a dinner for Cruz, as well as make a campaign donation.

    Dana (86e864) — 1/15/2016 @ 7:15 pm

    You have an excellent point. But I consider that more of an Oberlin college value than a New York value. Not like they’re not connected though.

    Steve57 (17e737)

  17. In a way it doesn’t really matter much what the candidate’s belief about abortion is, although I’m much more comfortable voting for a pro-life candidate. What’s important as a practical matter is what kind of judges they would appoint.

    Someone can personally believe it should be the woman’s choice but at the same time think it’s not the job of the courts to override the ability of the states to restrict abortion. Likewise they could personally believe SSM is okay but that there’s no constitutional right to it. They would probably appoint the strict constructionist type of judges. I could vote for someone like that.

    What kind of judges would Trump appoint? It’s hard to say, but the fact he thinks his sister would make a good SCOTUS Justice is not encouraging. I’m confident that I know the type Cruz would appoint.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  18. well she’s past the age of nomination, besides George HW, considered sotomayor, if memory serves, and he picked souter,

    narciso (732bc0)

  19. Dana asked;
    “I have to ask, Arizona CJ, what makes you lean toward Cruz then?”

    Because I’m not basing my vote on abortion. I’m pro choice, but it’s just not a big deal to me, except in the case that too absolutist a position hurts electability.

    Same on gay marriage. I’m for it, but frankly, I have higher priorities (such as getting our fiscal house in order.). (I’m more a libertarian than a conservative on a lot of issues)

    I’m also a hard-liner on immigration (including large scale legal immigration), and that pretty much leaves me with Trump or Cruz out of the main stage candidates. I tend to go with Cruz because of his senate record, and that I think he’s very intelligent regarding foreign policy (which does not seem to be an interest of Trump’s). Immigration is very much a core issue to me, so it plays a much larger roll in my calculations.

    I’m used to voting for candidates I disagree with on many issues, because I’ve always had to do that; my positions on issues vary from issue to issue regarding where on the political spectrum they fall.

    Trump has moved up in my rankings recently; he’s now my #2 pick (who I’ll vote for if Cruz looks like he’s out of the race, or if I think voting for Trump is the best shot at stopping Rubio). I used to have Carson as my #2 pick, but I’ve moved away from him due to him coming across as too nice and too calm to IMHO have a good shot at winning in November.

    Also, I (unlike many here) have room to procrastinate; Arizona’s primary isn’t until March 22nd. That means that I’m still uninformed about some aspects of some candidates positions, but I’ll address that before I vote (and by that time, I’m betting there will be a lot fewer candidates for me to research).

    Arizona CJ (da673d)

  20. Team republican has no use for a conservative judge as it would ruin their progressive image.

    mg (31009b)

  21. *raises hand* I detest Trump!

    Patterico (86c8ed)

  22. Foreigner (no, not the band) with a few questions here.

    Re “New York values” and generalisations thereto.

    Is it a stereotype that New Yorkers are touchy? Or are they seen to be more phlegmatic and thick-skinned? Does this perception shift according to what borough or neighbourhood a NY resident hails from?

    (I realise that the lion’s share of the complaining about Cruz’s comments comes from screechy New York journalists; the kind of people who would, in a fair world, be disqualified from the human race for shoving).

    JP (e30f35)

  23. Trump … pftui!

    nk (dbc370)

  24. 22. *raises hand* I detest Trump!

    Patterico (86c8ed) — 1/15/2016 @ 8:52 pm

    Yes, but in the pantheon of pols running for office, is he the one you detest most?

    Steve57 (17e737)

  25. Just how does Cruz – or anyone else for that matter – effectively smack Trump down? We’ve seen many try and fail. I can think of no better way than the New Yorker angle. He loses little using this approach; Cruz will not carry New York in the primary nor in the general election. It is an honest and substantive critique. Voters outside New York, both Democrats and Republicans, understand perfectly the deficiencies Cruz is alluding too. Trump embodies the New Yorker stereotype, which most American are repulsed by – and for good reason. Although Cruz is being pummeled by the elite for this line of attack, I can’t help but think that is will play and play well in Peoria. And that’s the bottom line. This is but another example of Cruz’ remarkable shrewdness.

    There has never been a presidential candidate I have been prouder to support (sadly, I was still a gullible young Democrat when Reagan ran).

    Although I, too, am repulsed by Trump (for precisely the reason Cruz points out), he has done yeoman’s work in bringing the GOPe to its knees. For that, I am eternally grateful.

    ThOR (a52560)

  26. “Yes, but in the pantheon of pols running for office, is he the one you detest most?”

    – Steve57

    Good standard. You wanna talk about why this county is f*cked? That mentality is why this country is f*cked.

    Leviticus (c3e73d)

  27. I am grateful for trump because boosh is toast.
    thank you, trump.
    May the booshes never be able to con America, again.

    mg (31009b)

    Ted has a point about those sleazy liberal N.Y.ers.

    mg (31009b)

  29. I object to “pantheon”. The word is “pandemonium”.

    nk (dbc370)

  30. New Yorkers need to get over themselves. And quit playing the 9/11 card – it expired when you elected BHO. NYers demonstrate their “values” by electing Bloomberg and DeBlasio, by the comments their gov makes telling conservatives they have no place in NY. By favoring BIG Government, and reducing liberty and personal choice (where is the Big Gulp?)by restricting guns except for criminals and the very well connected. GET OVER YOURSELVES. You sold out to liberalism.Liberalism has nno values– liberals kill babies.

    sd Harms (c7dded)

  31. The nauseating boosh commercials is a reflection of what the booshes cherish. Wasting money. No republican president has ever spent tax-payers money so foolishly. Ya, lets elect his brother. Deport the whole fricking family.

    mg (31009b)

  32. Mr. Trump want to be president of whole america big place!

    whereas the Mr. Ted Cruz mostly just wanna go to zagnut hollow kentucky and butt-snuffle

    advantage: Mr. The Donald

    this is obvious to anyone who is willing to do the analysis

    happyfeet (831175)

  33. I think Cruz made a mistake in the “New York Values” comment. His “apology” was pretty good but he should have come right back with it during the debate.

    The Trump statement about a Democrat SoS denying Cruz a place on the ballot is interesting and possible. He should have settled that already. I think Cruz is correct but so is Trump.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  34. If I vote for trump
    wouldn’t wanna be a chump
    or pull back a stump

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  35. a vote for ted cruz
    would be shot over the bow
    of pantsuited cow

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  36. won’t vote for sanders
    doddering old commie I’m
    no sandersnista!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  37. gotta vote ted cruz
    stick thumb in eye of old cooze
    put her ass in jail

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  38. won’t vote for marco
    young guy whose last name rhymes with

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  39. burma shave

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  40. sandersnista oy! you want he should give you free stuff?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  41. sandersnista oy! honeymooned in soviet union he did… da! came back to vermont which is almost same thing… collective schmective

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  42. Mark Steyn, I think, had the debate story about right.

    He agrees it was a mistake for Cruz to go after New York although maybe he can spin it with his “apology.”

    As that poll lays out, most Iowans are not aware that Cruz was born in Canada and, when it’s pointed out to them, most Republicans think it’s a disqualifier. Trump’s pitch is artful: “Me, I got no problem with my good friend Ted being Canadian – they’re lovely people, I employ a lot of them – but I’m just saying these Democrats feel differently and they’re very litigious…” And that line is potentially lethal. Speaking as a guy who gets told to bugger off back to Canada all the time, I note the above front page from today’s Daily News:

    Hey, Cruz: You don’t like NY values? Go back to Canada!

    That’s not a problem in red states. It might be in blue or purple states.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  43. Ben & Jerry’s honors vermont’s native son with new sandersnista oy! flavah… creamy aged vanilla, maple chunks, nuts with a swirl of phlegm

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  44. Actually Mike K, the Daily News headline is exactly what Cruz meant by “New York values”. Drop Dead Ted with the Statue of Liberty giving the finger is what has become NYC. Throw in a commie mayor, idiots who want to regulate your drink size and 8,000 cabs all driven by very smelly men named Mohammad and that is the NYC of today, not 2001. I would have looked at Trump and asked: “So even you need to go back 15 years to find something positive to say about NYC and you live there”.

    BTW, don’t give me the “don’t alienate broad swaths” crap. A total of 6 people in New York were going to vote Cruz even if he handed out $100 bills. The whole state is a bunch of commies. That’s part of the allure that caused Hillary! to carpetbag to the state.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  45. Have I ever told you that my all-time favorite movie ending is Fail Safe?

    nk (dbc370)

  46. cab drivers are pigs no matter what city you in

    happyfeet (831175)

  47. I would have looked at Trump and asked: “So even you need to go back 15 years to find something positive to say about NYC and you live there”.

    OK. That would have been a better answer. I still say it was a mistake.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  48. yes Cruz’s message is that NY is fundamentally not republican

    but me and Mr. The Donald think the constitution and the free market is for everybody!

    you can’t just write them off

    on some level i think even Mr. Cruz knows this

    in his defense he musta been intoxicated from huffing kimmy butt when he said this

    happyfeet (831175)

  49. what’s confuzzling is that Ted planned this

    this was his idea of a *stratagem*

    heavens to betsy what an idiot

    happyfeet (831175)

  50. Save the smart ass comebacks, Cruz made a stupid unforced error and got gobsmacked for it. Any attempts to put lipstick on the piggish insult only makes Cruz look weak, waffling, and hypocritical.

    Cruz’s wife works for NYC’s Goldman Sachs, where he took out loans to finance his 2012 campaign (which he also “neglected” to report on his financial disclosures).

    Seems Ted has a few NY values of his own.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  51. at least nobody’s talking about his sordid insider dealings with heidi’s goldy sacky boys

    happyfeet (831175)

  52. Oh, I agree it was a mistake Mike K, because it just doesn’t sound good to demean fellow Americans unless it’s a leftist calling conservatives racists or homophobes that are in a war on women pushing grandma off a cliff while they cling to their Bibles and guns. That’s okay. I bet if Trump had made fun of Cruz in camo with those backwoods hillbilly Robinsons you wouldn’t have heard a peep.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  53. oh except for you i mean

    happyfeet (831175)

  54. The Donald think the constitution and the free market is for everybody!

    you can’t just write them off

    Well, happyfeet, I wish they thought the Constitution is for everybody. Even people who own guns, or don’t want to support PP against their religion, or don’t want boys in the girls room. And the “free market” s a joke with those people they don’t believe in that. They believe in fixing the game, stacking the deck by using Wall Street and K Street to game the system. That’s not free market, it’s crony capitalism. Joe the Plumber was free market.

    And as for writing them off, they wrote themselves off when they elected a socialist grifter who said:

    “We’re going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good.” and
    “It’s time for a new beginning, for an end to government of the few, by the few, and for the few…and to replace it with shared responsibility, for shared prosperity.” and “(We)…can’t just let business as usual go on, and that means something has to be taken away from some people.” and
    “We have to build a political consensus and that requires people to give up a little bit of their own…in order to create this common ground.” and finally
    “I certainly think the free-market has failed.”

    as their senator and a billionaire leftist hypocrite followed by a come as their mayor.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  55. Everything Cruz said is true. Patterico is correct that he could have anticipated the 9/11 card. But lets face it, conservatives aren’t welcome in in NY or Calif.

    AZ Bob (34bb80)

  56. Hoagie, I find a Bloody Mary about this time on a Saturday morning is a good way to start Brunch and get ready for the playoffs. It puts me in the right mood.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  57. Well, where there are many words there is sin (let alone mistakes).
    But it does help (in the short run) when they are covered up, no matter how bad they are,
    rather than amplified, no matter how partially true they are.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  58. Cruz’s “New York values” rhetoric was planned, not a stumble, and it will help him in the primaries. Everyone, including small-town New York State residents, know Cruz is talking about liberal New York City values and he made that clear by referencing Manhattan. Not only did this undermine attempts to link Cruz to Goldman Sachs and Wall Street (who’s talking about that anymore?), but it’s setting up an us-vs-them with Trump and NY journalists as the “them.”

    Cruz was already the target of NY journalists on both sides. GOP voters love it when their candidates get to smack down journalists. Now Cruz can use journalists as surrogates for attacking Trump and/or use this to show how cozy Trump is with the media.

    What’s the downside here? No one but the most partisan opponent thinks Cruz hates 9/11 victims and New York hasn’t voted for a Republican President in over 30 years. Even moderate Republicans failed to win New York and if Trump is the GOP nominee, the only reason he’d have any chance to win (he wouldn’t) is because they know he shares their values.

    If there’s one thing I learned from McCain’s and Romney’s candidacies, it’s that you shouldn’t act like a President before you are one. Cruz should run to win, and that’s what I think he’s doing.

    By the way, now we know what Obama’s deal with Iran was that led to our recent humiliation at sea. Shame on him.

    DRJ (15874d)

  59. JP (e30f35) — 1/15/2016 @ 9:05 pm

    My answer as one person who grew up in the Midwest and has lived in Philly for 30+ years is the following:
    “New York” to people outside of New York means Manhattan, either/both Manhattan elite and the slums
    “California” means LA/Hollywood, San Fran, and U Cal-Berkley (also know as “Bezerkley, or “the Madison of the West Coast, or the Austin of the West coast, I suppose, depending where one is from)

    NY and California/West Coast are to be differentiated from “Fly-over country”, all of the space in between

    The NY elite and West Coast folks (centers of media) see the fly-overs with disdain, as in Obama’s calling us “bitter clingers” to our “guns and religion”

    See: Steve57 (17e737) — 1/15/2016 @ 7:11 pm
    and AZ Bob (34bb80) — 1/16/2016 @ 8:00 am
    for links to the NY values Cruz was talking about

    I believe the different boroughs of NYC do indeed have greatly different reputations/characterizations/sterotypes,
    but I think those differentiations are known primarily to New Yorkers.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  60. By the way, now we know what Obama’s deal with Iran was that led to our recent humiliation at sea. Shame on him.
    DRJ (15874d) — 1/16/2016 @ 8:19 am

    Umm, I don’t know (yet).

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  61. And who can forget one Democrat candidate for President referring to NY as Hymietown.

    AZ Bob (34bb80)

  62. they traded six sanctions violators, for four innocent men, the impressment was just the sweetener,

    narciso (732bc0)

  63. yes Mr. Dr. we do know

    food stamp did one of those prisoner swaps where we get back a greasy wapo propaganda slut and we give them a boatload of terror monkeys

    happyfeet (831175)

  64. So was that the deal to let out Gitmo people or did it have to do with the sailors? I don’t understand…

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  65. no those are mostly enemies of Iran, as well the sunni states,

    narciso (732bc0)

  66. …to show how cozy Trump is with the media.

    The media that’s been trying to 86 Trump since the day he announced, and every day since then?

    DRJ, put down the funny cigarettes and step away.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  67. I like Cruz and you like Trump, ropelight. I can see reasons to like both, but everyone can see that Trump plays the media like a violin and they love/hate him for it. The media can’t get over its fascination with The Donald and that’s what makes them cozy.

    DRJ (15874d)

  68. this is just one of the ones sprung:

    narciso (732bc0)

  69. Trump loves playing the media, too. They are perfectly matched. He needs them and they need him.

    DRJ (15874d)

  70. cruz is hippopotamus!

    takes sweet gay nyc money then huffs kimmy butt!


    happyfeet (831175)

  71. most details from here,

    cruz disclosed everything, yet it didn’t matter,

    narciso (732bc0)

  72. 58.Hoagie, I find a Bloody Mary about this time on a Saturday morning is a good way to start Brunch and get ready for the playoffs. It puts me in the right mood.

    Not a bad idea but I can’t do anything till about three this afternoon. They are delivering my wife’s car to the house today, finally finished. (I hope) And a friend is trying to sell a Montgomery County Retail Liquor License and I’m brokering it to a Korean guy for him meeting at the Club around 3pm (then I can have one).

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  73. Hmmm,
    Well, maybe I will understand later if and how the prisoner swap ties in with the boat situation,
    Unless you are telling me that the boats were the mechanism by which we transferred custody of the bad guys we had,
    In which case the treatment of the crews by the Iranians is all the more outrageous.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84)

  74. Not to worry Hoagie, I’ve got your back. I’ll have a 2nd one in your honor.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  75. A laissez-faire position on gay marriage is not a deal-breaker for me — it’s a symptom not a disease.

    Abortion is. A deal-breaker. And a disease. That “17 years ago position” is a load of New York sidewalk decoration. A lot of babies were murdered in the 17 years before Trump decided to become a Repoutblican.

    nk (dbc370)

  76. they were the sweetener in the deal, in case the administration reneged on any of the players,

    narciso (732bc0)

  77. this is dry january picklehead

    i decidered this was smart after moving to chicago where they taxrape the holy hell out of every sip

    happyfeet (831175)

  78. you moving to maryland next, this just seems three floors down from california,

    narciso (732bc0)

  79. A good friend once said to me, “It’s not the Mexicans who are ruining California, it’s the New Yorkers.”

    ThOR (a52560)

  80. You mean the Iranians took the sailors captive as insurance we would release the agreed upon criminals,
    And then we are supposed to be impressed that Kerry intervened to get them released?????


    Reality is stranger than fiction,
    And we’ve got more than 365 days of “reality” left….

    MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84)

  81. that’s the way it looks from here,

    narciso (732bc0)

  82. no is a huge tax break really especially if you change certain consumption patterns

    for example eating out is a very very poor value here in chicago after 9.5% sales tax and .25% restaurant tax and 20% tip plus the price inflation caused by the exorbitant minimum wage here – PLUS tack on an extra 1% tax if you want to eat downtown

    happyfeet (831175)

  83. oops strike 9.5 and change that to 10.25 as just the base sales tax

    happyfeet (831175)

  84. FWIW
    If some people want to make a legal standing for SS marriage that is not the major problem for me,
    The major problem has always been putting into the legal system the idea that heteromonomarriageism is an illegitimate opinion.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly) (deca84)

  85. they were proIsrael, and for their trouble, they were unpersonned,

    narciso (732bc0)

  86. An anachronistic reactionary bourgeois concept, MD.

    nk (dbc370)

  87. MD in Philly,


    I do find it a bit peculiar that some New Yorkers could be so incensed about, 1) the quote attributed to Cruz, and, 2), his actual quote.

    But I suppose the loudest voices are also the emptiest.

    JP (e30f35)

  88. I think it’s possible the Navy ship went astray and Obama refused to let the military respond, preferring to call on his “friends” the Iranians for assistance — the guys he was giving billions to and with whom he had a deal to release captives. Obama might see it as an opportunity to show the public how great this new Iranian-American friendship could be.

    Instead, the Iranians used this as a PROPPORTUNITY to humble America, something Obama has shown time and time again he can live with. Win-Win.

    DRJ (15874d)

  89. I meant to write “PR opportunity,” but maybe the CAPSLOCK is appropriate.

    DRJ (15874d)

  90. RIP Dan Haggerty.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  91. ’99?

    That’s the best ya got?

    formwiz (6b3a5a)

  92. JP (e30f35) — 1/16/2016 @ 9:14 am
    One needs to remember that in the US of A, most media tries to shape the news as well as report it. How much they do this just because that is the way they think,
    and how much is conscious manipulation varies from story to story.
    There is no “objective” media, and the ones that claim to be are the least to be trusted.
    Give me a good honest journalist who tells me where they are coming from any day,
    better still is one who will tell you that and then try to argue opposite points of view anyway.
    So, the “opinions” of “New Yorkers” is pre-selected.

    DRJ (15874d) — 1/16/2016 @ 9:20 am
    Steve57 and others can comment with much more knowledge than I can,
    but from my limited understanding,
    for 2 navy boats to have messed up all of their various ways of navigation and to not be in contact with any larger ships in the area
    is virtually to assume massive incompetence on many levels of command.
    Now, I don’t doubt Obama would be OK with that,
    but I know there are some sailors out there who have too much self-dignity to tolerate it.

    I’m waiting for a “13 Hours” like expose’ when one of these sailors parts with the service.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  93. all the usual suspects, thrush, jeffrey goldberg, amampour are praising it, which means they are dead wrong,

    narciso (732bc0)

  94. OT, but always on topic for the foreseeable future,
    an article that I think many can appreciate from differing angles:

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  95. “If there’s one thing I learned from McCain’s and Romney’s candidacies, it’s that you shouldn’t act like a President before you are one. Cruz should run to win, and that’s what I think he’s doing.” DRJ

    Absolutely right. To be President of all America, you first have to close the deal. I’m tired of steak knives, I want the Cadillac El Dorado. Cruz is a closer.

    ThOR (a52560)

  96. Careful what you wish for:

    The New York Times, Mike McIntire, 1/15/16 is reporting that Cruz just might embody some of those NY values he points to with disdain.

    Ted Curz Failed to Report a Second Campaign Loan in 2012

    The Republican presidential candidate Ted Cruz, already facing scrutiny for not disclosing a Goldman Sachs loan he used for his 2012 Senate campaign, also failed to disclose a second loan, from Citibank, for the same race, according to a letter he sent Thursday to federal election officials.

    The one-page letter said that the “underlying source” of money for a series of personal loans Mr. Cruz made to his Senate campaign in Texas included both bank loans, which totaled as much as $1 million. Both loans were “inadvertently omitted” from the required filings, the letter said. Previously, Mr. Cruz had acknowledged only using the loan from Goldman for his campaign.

    Ted Cruz Didn’t Report Goldman Sachs Loan in a Senate Race

    JAN. 13, 2016
    News Analysis: Ted Cruz, Once Dismissed, Emerges as a Slashing Debater JAN. 15, 2016

    The latest disclosure casts further doubt on his oft-stated story of having liquidated his entire family savings of slightly more than $1 million to fuel a come-from-behind win in the Republican primary. The tale has become part of a campaign narrative of a populist, scrappy Mr. Cruz putting everything on the line to overcome a wealthy establishment opponent…

    ropelight (c6d308)

  97. Team republican and the sheep that bend over for them are submissive dolts.

    mg (31009b)

  98. ropelight,
    I don’t care what the NYT says about Trump, until it gets bounced around and shown to be an issue,
    I care even less what the NYT says about Cruz, until it gets bounced around for legitimacy,

    I often forget the Murray Gell-Mann Amnesia Syndrome, but when it comes to the NYT and political reporting,
    I don’t.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  99. Except Ted Cruz DID report the loan. This is already old news and already debunked. It was a dishonest hack job by the New Jerk Slimes. Do try to keep up.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  100. Narciso linked to the Mediaite article that proved the New Jerk Slimes article was bunk. I even commented about it, as the Mediaite commenters are nearly all low-lifes with reading comprehension failures.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  101. which the whole wurlitzer picks up, without skipping a beat,

    narciso (732bc0)

  102. Well, Hitch, if there’s nothing to see here maybe we should just move on.

    It just couldn’t be true that a career politician borrowed money on Wall Street and later somehow failed to report it on his campaign finance reports twice.

    Debunked is a nice word, but what does it mean in this context?

    ropelight (c6d308)

  103. let him explain it,

    now just like trump doesn’t trumpet how prince talal, took the princess and the plaza off him, but he did disclose just the same,

    narciso (732bc0)

  104. I get by (saving time) with a little help from my friends…

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  105. Yes, Ropelight, follow narciso’s Phil Kerpin twitter link. It has been debunked multiple times, multiple ways, by multiple outlets — including Media outlets.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  106. On the state level, geographic “othering” is a staple. For the longest time, the L.A. vs. San Francisco rivalry dominated California politics. In Oregon, it has been the Willamette Valley vs. Eastern Oregon conflict. In Illinois, it is metro Chicago against the rest of the state. The list goes on.

    On the national level, criticisms of Wall Street dates back to the Great Depression, at the very least. For most of my adult life, Republicans have denigrated San Francisco values. More recently, Washington values have been added to the Republican list. No one doubts the effectiveness of these attacks – everybody loves to hate Nancy Pelosi and John Boehner. Political careers have been built around such “othering” campaigns – that’s what “bitter-clingers” was all about, wasn’t it? So how is Cruz’ line of attack a bridge too far?

    It’s not. Cruz has, once again, crafted a clever argument and his opponents left to pound the table. Let them pound; I’m enjoying it.

    ThOR (a52560)

  107. i’m a go to NY soon i wanna go to brodo

    happyfeet (831175)

  108. There are numerous orientations and behaviors that can be tolerated, but not normalized, when they do not represent a progressive condition. Perhaps the greatest failure of the “=” or congruence movement was establishment of a precedent for legal discrimination and exclusion of politically unfavorable orientations and behaviors. Then there is the progressive establishment of womb banks and sperm depositors to create an air of normality for transgender/homosexuals and other dysfunctional orientations.

    As for religious or moral principles, the following observation comes to mind: when I was a child… Liberalism is an ideology closely associated with youthful ignorance and childhood naivety.

    People mature at different rates on different topics. Delegating the choice of classifying human life to the mother seems to be a reasonable and practical choice. Until you realize that not only is elective abortion the willful termination of a wholly innocent human life, but the consequences of debasing human life have comprehensive and far reaching consequences. For example, liberal societies’ religious or moral tolerance that progressed from resumption of sacrificial rites to clinical cannibalism by Planned Parenthood et al.

    Once, repent. Twice and more, natural born killer.

    n.n (498413)

  109. abortion is ok some people are just not in a good place for to have kids or whatever

    you have to trust people to make the decisions what are best for them

    that’s what freedom’s all about even in these latter days of cowardly pissy pants failmerica

    happyfeet (831175)

  110. Cruz wins another NYC straw poll:

    Metropolitan Republican Club
    January 14 at 9:49pm · New York, NY ·

    The Results from the First Met Club Straw Poll of 2016 are as follows:
    1st place: Ted Cruz 33%
    2nd place: Donald J. Trump 32%
    3rd place: Marco Rubio 20%
    4th place: Joshn Kasich 7%
    5th place: Chris Christie 3%
    6th place: Jeb Bush 1%
    7th place: Ben Carson 0%

    Dana (86e864)

  111. Hitch, I did click on narcisco’s kerpen link, it’s a collection of tweets.

    The issue is did Cruz borrow money from his wife’s Wall Street employer and also from Citibank then fail to disclose those loans in his campaign finance reports?

    ropelight (c6d308)

  112. they’re so shady with their sneaky wall street schemes, ted n heidi are

    i question their ethics

    happyfeet (831175)

  113. in my house we only had one flavor of jelly it was grape and that’s what you put on your toast

    I don’t even wanna *look* in Ted n Heidi’s fridge

    happyfeet (831175)

  114. This country already bought a pig in a poke, and just look at the damage one treacherous rat has done to the nation. Shouldn’t we make damn sure not to make the same mistake again?

    ropelight (c6d308)

  115. Cruz make the mistake of overly connecting “New York” to liberalism and all its flaws thereof instead of to humans in general. So New York City has become the focus of the debate and backlash instead of liberal.

    This same mish-mosh occurs repeatedly when a person (often of the left) starts either bad mouthing or praising large groups of people while downplaying what is really being judged: That group’s liberalism or conservatism. So, for example, blacks — or women, or gays, or straights, or Christians, or Jews, or Europeans, or Asians, or Latinos, or urban folks, or country folks, etc, etc — but who are of the left are cheered or treated with the warm fuzzies, while blacks — or women, or gays, or straights, etc etc — but who are of the right receive nothing but apathy or a stony silence.

    Mark (f713e4)

  116. ropelight,

    You realize Cruz borrowed money against the stock he owned, right? Goldman Sachs let’s its employees borrow against their stock held in GS accounts, provided the stock value is twice (or more) the loan value and provided the borrower agrees the stock will be collateral for the loan — so the stock will be liquidated to pay the loan if the debt isn’t repaid.

    Most companies let their employees do this Wil company-held stock, IRA, etc., accounts, so you don’t have to sell the stock and pay tax. Most banks will do it, too, if you give them the stock certificates to hold.

    The facts show the loan was disclosed on some forms, but was mistakenly left off another form. It was also published in the Texas Tribune, as you know from reading the Kerpen link. Maybe it was a calculated deception but I doubt it since it was disclosed. It seems like a simple mistake.

    DRJ (15874d)

  117. The issue is will you open your eyes, Ropelight? Phil Kerpen has proof, from multiple sources, including Media sources, that the New York Times is a lying crapweasel and Cruz disclosed both of them back when they were supposed to be disclosed. The fact that you refuse to see with your eyes and hear with your ears says a lot about you. And none of it good.

    John Hitchcock (b495dc)

  118. I completely agree about being careful what we buy into, thouh. Why do you trust Trump?

    DRJ (15874d)

  119. John, I see well enough to drive at night without glasses and although my hearing isn’t what it once was I can still tell a hawk form a handsaw. I call ’em like a see ’em, and I don’t let others do my thinking for me, nor do I knuckle under to bullies.

    Perhaps you neglected to read the last paragraph in my comment at #99:

    The latest disclosure casts further doubt on his oft-stated story of having liquidated his entire family savings of slightly more than $1 million to fuel a come-from-behind win in the Republican primary. The tale has become part of a campaign narrative of a populist, scrappy Mr. Cruz putting everything on the line to overcome a wealthy establishment opponent…

    So, it’s just possible that Ted Cruz has been embellishing his life story to make himself seem more noble that the facts indicate. That’s of course not a crime, it’s something Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton do every day.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  120. Why do I trust Trump?

    Because he’s showed the courage over and over to take on the big issues straight up, take the heat, and let the people decide.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  121. i like Mr. The Donald mostly just cause of ted is unelectable

    he’s just so divisive and after what he said about our fellow new york americans

    game over

    happyfeet (831175)

  122. I agree Trump is not easily intimidated. Cruz has shown courage and principles.

    DRJ (15874d)

  123. DRJ, indeed, Ted Cruz has stood up to the GOP establishment, he’s locked horns with GOP Senate leaders, rejected their demands for conformity, and called his own tune. There’s no doubting his courage and his dedication to the people who elected him. He’s proven his mettle.

    I admire the man.

    ropelight (c6d308)

  124. As DRJ said,
    when I read about it,
    from what I understood instead of liquidating all of their assets and living in a cardboard box,
    they borrowed to the max against everything they had,
    so essentially made their net worth zero.

    Now, I couldn’t care less about what the NYT or anybody has to nit-pick about crap like that while Obama and Clinton and Repub party bosses do all of the crap that they do,
    so there.

    It is not worth my time to go into details.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  125. #s 115 and 116… well, the political science is settled for me. happyfeets usual vulgar poormouthing of honest, forthright individuals is an official Stamp of Approval for this buckaroo. I’m even more in the tank for Cruz.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  126. i just don’t see how these cruz characters can possibly win now Mr. Colonel

    it’s like a veil has been lifted

    happyfeet (831175)

  127. The following excerpt is by Allegra Kirkland, 1/8/16, reporting at TPM:

    Fiorina: It’s ‘Odd’ Cruz Didn’t Renounce Canadian Citizenship Until 2014

    Republican presidential candidate Carly Fiorina weighed in on what she called the “odd” circumstances of her Canadian-born rival Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX)’s citizenship on Thursday.

    In an interview on Fox News’ “On the Record With Greta Van Susteren,” Fiorina said: “I find it odd that Sen. Ted Cruz did not renounce his duel Canadian citizenship until 2014 when it became clear he was running for president.”

    ropelight (c6d308)

  128. Donald Trump has been a lifelong Democrat. He’s boasted about picking up the phone and saying to a politician, “Hey, I want ‘X,’ so why don’t you give me ‘X.'”

    He has openly supported eminent domain via the Kelo Decision, as well as single-payer health care. He supported Obama in 2008. And he invited that Hillary woman to his wedding a number of years ago.

    Most Americans bust their rear to earn a modest income between $40K-$75K, so when right-of-center journalists such as Megyn Kelly and Hugh Hewitt ask Mr. Billionaire Trump “unfair!!!” questions such as, “Excuse me, Sir, but what is your opinion about policy such-and-such?,?” it’s pathetic to see him fly off the handle and make Beavis & Butthead type remarks about Megyn’s menstrual cycles, or that Hewitt doesn’t have Rush Limbaugh’s ratings.

    I’m inherently suspicious of a billionaire who insults a person anytime they pose a legitimate question or disagreement with him. If you can’t handle the heat, then stay out of the kitchen, tough guy. I’ll vote for whomever the GOP nominates, but it’s so strange that a number of conservatives who claim Mitt Romney and John McCain were too liberal are hyperventillating in favor of a guy who actually voted for Obama in 2008.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  129. Mr. The Donald isn’t perfect it’s just the other Rs are such candy-asses

    happyfeet (831175)

  130. happyfeet, it’s not that Donald Trump isn’t a perfect Republican—rather, it’s that he’s not a perfect Democrat.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  131. he’s better than hillary

    belieber me I googled that hooch

    she’s bad news

    happyfeet (831175)

  132. happyfeet, you’re right, Donald Trump is better than Hillary.
    But that’s not the question we’re answering right now. The question right now is, “Is Trump, the Obama ’08 supporter, preferable than Cruz, Rubio, Fiorina, Christie, et al.
    That’s the question to answer during the primary season.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  133. while libertarian ayn randists were running down the stairs pushing people aside n.y. firemen were truding up the stairs trying to save your worthless lives.

    xeke (0711be)

  134. i’m agnostic i’m just mad at cruz cause he did the butt snuffles

    that was just so appallingly gratuitous

    happyfeet (831175)

  135. xeke, are you saying that only libertarians tried to flee for their lives? Or are you suggesting n.y. firemen are stupid for bravely doing their job?

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  136. it’s perry, move along, these are not the droids,

    narciso (732bc0)

  137. For all his tough guy New Yawk strutting, it’s still a little amusing that The Donald has meltdowns whenever being questioned by Megyn Kelly or Hugh Hewitt.
    Being President of the United States is actually more demanding than being a businessman asking the Port Authority for special amenities regarding imports from Albania.

    But if you question The Donald, the only reason is because you’re a secret Communist who eats raspberry smoothies sprinkled with cashews.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  138. kelly and hewitt
    gomer and goober

    mg (31009b)

  139. trump just lost his chance at the presidency. Picking this liberal poo head is the kiss of death. What an idiot. Come on Ted mention Col. West as your main man.

    mg (31009b)

  140. the only conceivable R nominees what would pick white boys as their veep are cruz and rubio i think

    this is just how failmerica rolls anymore

    happyfeet (831175)

  141. Brown hosted Trump in the Granite State as a part of his “No BS Backyard BBQ” series. He will also hold a rally with Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) this weekend.

    happyfeet (831175)

  142. An estimated $40 billion is needed annually to help the rapidly growing number of people needing humanitarian aid as a result of conflicts and natural disasters — and one possibility to help fill the $15 billion funding gap is a small voluntary tax on tickets for soccer games and other sports, concerts and entertainment events, airline travel, and gasoline, a U.N.-appointed panel said.

    slutbama likey!

    happyfeet (831175)

  143. With Mainstream Media running stories headlined such-and-such family member of someone killed on 9/11 “offers to teach Ted Cruz a lesson” about New York values, I thought the better story, as it relates to 9/11, should be not on what the Texas senator said the other night but on what a New York senator said a decade ago: how Hillary Clinton lied about the pre-9/11 brief titled “Bin Ladin Preparing to Hijack US Aircraft and Other Attacks” she claimed Bill Clinton never was shown. After all, 9/11 might have never happened had Bill done his job!

    Hillary Clinton’s lie about the Presidential Daily Brief that Bill Clinton DID receive proves she doesn’t want Americans to know the truth. That’s the “lesson” that must be taught: How Hillary’s lie disrespects every family member who lost loved ones that day!

    Noel Sheppard, Rest In Peace…

    JoeKidd (4d9c69)

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