Patterico's Pontifications

6/21/2012

Jay Carney: We’re Really Sorry Fast and Furious Resulted in the Death of That American Agent, You Know, What’s His Face

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 2:47 pm



Disrespect.

Thanks to The Hope for America.

88 Responses to “Jay Carney: We’re Really Sorry Fast and Furious Resulted in the Death of That American Agent, You Know, What’s His Face”

  1. Ding.

    Patterico (906cfb)

  2. Brian Terry

    EricPWJohnson (d84fb0)

  3. The Obama Administration is trying to do Stalin one better; they’re trying to turn one murder, that of Brian Terry, into a mere statistic.

    Bugg (01aaf9)

  4. Typical of the very aptly named Carney and his ilk.

    Gazzer (e43317)

  5. Where does the line start to kick that guys ass? An attitude adjustment would do him a world of good. It helped me when I needed one.

    BradnSA (980254)

  6. Classy

    Dustin (330eed)

  7. We could have a great deficit reduction program by selling raffle tickets and the winner gets to kick this vile liar in the teeth. Metaphorically.

    JD (33493e)

  8. Wow. You’d think if they, you know, cared… then the Press Secretary would have that name at the ready before meeting the media on the topic. I guess the talking points about Obama’s actions being “entirely about principle” were a higher priority to have straight in Carney’s mind.

    Wineaholic (79957d)

  9. Carney is an amazingly brazen liar for someone so bad at it.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  10. IIRC, President Obama himself neglected to call the Terry family to offer his condolences, so this further lack of respect is not surprising. Shameful, but not surprising.

    (Holder did write the Terry family a letter of condolence…that’s something, anyway…)

    Dana (4eca6e)

  11. That was in a Politico account, but I don’t know if that is true,

    narciso (8bfa44)

  12. Translation: The House Committee gave up attempting to find out any more information about why gun walking happened, and they are only focusing on why they were lied to by the Department of Justice, which had claimed that gun walking never, ever, ever happened.

    And why they were lied to, is a different issue than why the whole thing happened in the first place, so all this is irrelevant to what the Terry family wants to know.

    Well, he didn’t quite say it that way, but that’s the transaltion.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  13. Everything Carney says is wrong and a brazen lie about the scandal. That’s why the reporters are just laughing at him.

    He’s a clown.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  14. Carney also claimed that the Inspector General’s report would give the family the answers they wanted.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  15. this pathetically incompetent idiot is the perfect mouthpiece for the SCOAMF and his regime.

    birds of a feather, and all that.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  16. Comment by Dana — 6/21/2012 @ 4:23 pm

    (Holder did write the Terry family a letter of condolence…that’s something, anyway…)

    Comment by narciso — 6/21/2012 @ 4:27 pm:

    That was in a Politico account, but I don’t know if that is true,

    I found this:

    http://patdollard.com/2011/11/holder-says-he%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%9Csorry%E2%80%9D-to-family-of-border-agent-killed-by-fast-and-furious-weapon/

    Daily Caller: The Holder letter may exist, but Politico hasn’t published it. And friends of the Terry family told The Daily Caller on Thursday that they haven’t received it. Either Holder never sent his “private letter,” or the Justice Department leaked it to Politico before the Terry family received it. “He never sent a letter,” Lana Domino, a Terry family friend, told TheDC on Thursday.

    Now that was on November 11, 2011. It could be that the letter was sent, but took a few days to arrive in the mail. But the important recipient was Politico in any case.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  17. amateurs

    Colonel Haiku (9f27f7)

  18. teh rank Carney folk
    beef and vegetable soup
    just like circus folk

    Colonel Haiku (9f27f7)

  19. Sammy Finkelman,

    Even worse yet.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  20. National security leaks didn’t do it.

    Virtual amnesty by executive order didn’t do it.

    If defying congressional oversight doesn’t provoke a sufficiently scary constitutional crisis, what will they try next?

    Amphipolis (e01538)

  21. Carney is just the Obama Administration’s designated scab — a dead, dried out crust of congealed pus, leaking around the edges, but relied upon to conceal the festering rot immediately under the surface. However much I despise him, my disdain for him is merely a subset of the contempt in which I hold the master whose shoes he licks.

    Beldar (f9a493)

  22. carney rat is another disgraceful obama dunce.

    mg (44de53)

  23. The contrast between Carney and Dana Perino is astounding.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  24. dana perino
    teh smarts and beauty combo
    she’s chubwa worthy

    Colonel Haiku (059d70)

  25. and then there’s Andrea Mitchell…

    Colonel Haiku (059d70)

  26. walking salt peter
    teh andrea mitchell can’t
    give a dog a bone

    Colonel Haiku (059d70)

  27. Will anyone from the Mainstream Media step forward as the next Woodward and Bernstein?

    Sadly, I doubt it.

    Bringing down Obama won’t result in a Pulitzer Prize or even a Hollywood movie.

    Even thought it is the right thing to do.

    AZ Bob (2588dd)

  28. teh Chicago Way
    dirty fish-eyed politics
    Rahm Emanuel

    Colonel Haiku (059d70)

  29. sorry AZ Bob
    they’re lapdog stenographers
    Carl and Bob liars

    Colonel Haiku (059d70)

  30. 0bama Holder
    Frick and Frack of politics
    diminished so much

    Colonel Haiku (059d70)

  31. Eric and Barry
    grey hair says it all as they
    worry together

    elissa (d2529c)

  32. What Beldar said.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  33. Senator Grassley isn’t having any of Jay Carney’s nonsense,

    “It’s necessary to correct and clarify a few comments from the White House press secretary this afternoon on Fast and Furious. His statement that the Administration has ‘provided Congress every document that pertains to the operation itself’ is hogwash. Through my investigation, I know there are reams of documents related to ‘the operation itself’ that the Justice Department has refused to turn over to Congress.

    “For example, the earliest known Fast and Furious briefing paper was sent to ATF leadership on December 2, 2009. The Attorney General promised last summer that the Justice Department would send us all of the briefing papers. However, the Justice Department never provided what is arguably the most important one. The assertion that the Administration has given Congress every document related to Fast and Furious is just inaccurate.

    “The accusation that I’m motivated by a desire for a ‘political scalp’ is baseless. Yes, I want the responsible people held accountable. An American agent died because of government policy and practice, and that can’t go unanswered. Whenever the government does damage, credibility demands telling the full story and taking appropriate action. Inaction erodes trust in government.

    “If my approach to congressional oversight were dictated by political gain, I wouldn’t have voted to subpoena records from Alberto Gonzales and the Bush Justice Department over the firing of U.S. attorneys. I wouldn’t have voted to hold Bush White House officials in contempt in the same matter. I wouldn’t have voted to authorize subpoenas for documents on warrantless surveillance sought by the Democratic chairman of the Judiciary Committee. These weren’t popular moves with my fellow Republicans, but I thought they were right. I’m committed to Congress’ constitutional responsibility of oversight regardless of which party is in the White House. Congress has the authority as elected representatives of the people to get the facts to inform our legislative duties under the Constitution. Any administration of any party should respect that.”

    Dana (4eca6e)

  34. I think dueling should be reinstated. if someone like Carney or Pelosi or whoever wants to say that soemone is not interested in the welfare of the country but their own political gain, let them stick out their chin a dare a slap with a glove and a challenge.

    These people are routinely doing what we would punish our children for doing. Hold them all in contempt, I just about do.

    MD in Philly (f0e1bd)

  35. As long as he keeps lying, Mr. Claire Shipman won’t get thrown under the bus.

    PatAZ (41722e)

  36. ______________________________________________

    Carney is an amazingly brazen liar for someone so bad at it.

    He’s still happily saying — and presumably with the approval of his boss — that Fast and Furious originated in the Bush White House. I’m not sure how that squares with Holder saying recently that he wasn’t correct (ie, he apparently was lying) when he said that his predecessor, Michael Mukasey, knew about the operation.

    I’m also not sure if Obama and Holder are skittish about fully airing the details of the controversy because of their contempt for the gun lobby and the 2nd amendment, and whether that bias had some influence on the way they treated Fast and Furious. IOW, were they rather indifferent or smug about the whole matter because of a peculiar strain of “goddamn America!” ethos? Or a reaction not too different from the time when Obama immediately sided with woe-is-me-martyr Henry Louis Gates Jr instead of the police officer in Cambridge, Massachusetts.

    Mark (3d897d)

  37. Olbermann would do a better job. He’d certainly be a better liar because he believes every lie. I hear he’s looking for work.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  38. You know it takes real talent on the part of someone to make me long for the days of Baghdad Bob Robert Gibbs.

    This clown makes Gibbsie look like an honest man!

    Comanche Voter (dc4fc0)

  39. Shorter Beldar: The Mouth of Sauron.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  40. Obama’s one word theme was “HOPE”

    Obviously he can’t ruin on that again. A one word theme for Romney:

    COMPETENCE

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  41. ummm, I tried to type “run”, and typed “ruin”. STET.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  42. Very Freudian Kevin.

    Gazzer (e43317)

  43. And maybe that’s Obama’s new one-word theme: RUIN. It’s more likely to come true.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  44. I’d like the long-suffering WH reporters to issue a challenge. Get both Gibbsy and Carnie up there in soundproof booths. Ask them each the same question and then see who lies answers best.

    elissa (d2529c)

  45. Hannity had the Terry parents on tonight. They did get a phone call but couldn’t hear what was said as it was at the funeral home.

    Has anybody else noticed that Juan Williams has jumped the shark ? He is just pitiful these days. It couldn’t possibly have anything to do with Obama’s race.

    Mike_K (326cba)

  46. “That family you mentioned”

    RokShox (c6c88c)

  47. On Jan 21, will Jay have but a shred of credibility left, or will that be gone too?

    AD-RtR/OS! (2bb434)

  48. Jay C. can remember three Hilary Rosen’s, but cannot recall one Brian Terry?

    He’s all class, that one . . . without the “c” and the “l”.

    Icy (1ed9b3)

  49. carney rat reminds me of a smart ass in jr. high, who ended up on a coat rack in a locker, without his milk money.

    mg (44de53)

  50. “what’s his face”. Great way of putting it.

    More partisan games from this Administration. No wonder the reservoir of good will Obama’s built up after 3 1/2 years is about an inch deep. Which is going to haunt him in about 5 months … http://bit.ly/qVdDUt

    ombdz (2a81ef)

  51. Has anybody else noticed that Juan Williams has jumped the shark ? He is just pitiful these days. It couldn’t possibly have anything to do with Obama’s race.

    it’s those wide-open eyes
    blinking fast furiously
    that give juan away

    Colonel Haiku (8be704)

  52. Of course Obama’s Press Secretary doesn’t recall Brian Terry’s name, why should he?

    To Jay Carney, Barack Obama, and Eric Holder, Brian Terry was just another one those bitter clingers, an obstructionist white guy, who was trying to stop new Democrats from registering to vote and got what was coming to him.

    ropelight (654673)

  53. “Has anybody else noticed that Juan Williams has jumped the shark ? He is just pitiful these days. It couldn’t possibly have anything to do with Obama’s race.”

    Of course it does. Anyone have any idea about the level of hope and aspiration that a black person would have projected on to the first black President. To have him turn out to be such a liar and an incompetent, must be crushing. I’m black, but since I didn’t believe in him in the first place, I have no dreams that were dashed.

    Mike Giles (bba016)

  54. What does Carney have to say about Obama’s flip-off-Reagan party at the White House?

    I thought that kind of behavior was supposed to happen if you voted for Republicans.

    AZ Bob (fb8d4c)

  55. The thing is when there’s a Democrat in office, I never got the sense they valued my life. Not since Kennedy.

    Admittedly, I didn’t choose the kind of balls to the walls kind of profession you’d expect of a warrior.

    Hardly. And I’d be the last guy to say so.

    Still, I could have gotten myself killed. And when the Preezy of the US of Easy spouts off about the servicemen fighting on HIS behalf, I have my doubts.

    I had the option of quitting the service under Clinton. I didn’t. I don’t serve for any man’s behalf. Never have. I serve my country.

    It’s unusual, I suppose for an an Italian. Italians don’t normally make good soldiers. That’s probably because they never had a country worth fighting for.

    Steve57 (c441a6)

  56. ______________________________________________

    Anyone have any idea about the level of hope and aspiration that a black person would have projected on to the first black President.

    But would many people like Juan Williams be so emotionally invested in Obama if the guy weren’t a liberal but instead a conservative Republican, or even a staunch moderate, who just happened to be also black?

    I recall polls through the years showing overwhelming, one-sided support among black respondents towards white politicians along the lines of John Kerry, Al Gore, and, of course, America’s “first black president,” Bill Clinton.

    I think if “leftism” were a race or ethnicity, that would be THE race — perhaps the only one — that truly mattered to many people on the left, regardless of their own race or ethnicity. And when surveys indicate that 90-plus percent of black America is of the left, that is a far more telling characteristic to keep in mind than anything related to that group’s (or, for that matter, any group’s) skin color.

    Mark (3d897d)

  57. Comment by Dana — 6/21/2012 @ 7:20 pm

    Senator Grassley isn’t having any of Jay Carney’s nonsense,

    “It’s necessary to correct and clarify a few comments from the White House press secretary this afternoon on Fast and Furious. His statement that the Administration has ‘provided Congress every document that pertains to the operation itself’ is hogwash.

    The Administration is kind of confusing the fact (or Carney may himself in fact be confused) that the committee was only holding Holder in contempt for refusing to supply documents that would explain prior DOJ testimony, but not holding him in contempt for other things, which they may not have subpoenaed.

    Also that seems to be claim that whatever they gave them was enough, whetehr or not the committee thinks so. They were probably still in the process of negotiation about other material.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  58. The real key sentence here, while technically maybe not a lie, certainly not provable as a lie, is extremely, extremely misleading:

    Look, look. We absolutely agree with the need to find out, the truth about why Fast and Furious happened, why the tactic, that again, was employed by the previous Administration in different operations and was stopped by this Attorney General (!!) why it came about, and that’s why the Attorney General referred it to [the] Inspector General.

    The technical lies there may be We absolutely agree and that’s why but the rest of it is extremely, extremely misleading :

    the tactic that…was employed by the previous Administration in different operations is true and a lot of publicity misses this. the tactic hes talking about (which he doesn’t any person still uninfomred to know about) is letting known straw buyers walk off with guns and then waiting to see what happens. It’s called gun-walking.

    Different operations. He’s not mentioning any names, but there were more than one of them. He’d like everybody to think that this only concerns sommething called “Fast and Furious” While at the same time usinmg words that might imply that “Fast and Furious” went back further. Not “Fast and Furious” but similar things were started and stopped in the prvious administration.

    And quite possibly of course this did not start during the Bush Administration.

    Different operations.

    What this indicates is that this is soemthing that originated low in the in the BATF and may have something to do with taking bribes or protecting informants.

    Although not too many people are taking this tack, possibly because something is being spun by the guilty parties as follows: Obama did it because he wants an excuse to seize guns or close gun shops. Or Obama wants to prove that the U.S> is creating problems for Mexico rather tahn just mexico for the United States. If drugs come from there, guns come from here. But that is NOT the explanation for this. It’s a false meme.

    It DID happen, more than once before Obama. That point is in his favor, but somebody is being protected or something. They want to confuse people, or, at least, not un-confuse them.

    One person involved in this is the head of the Justice Department’s Criminal Division, Lanny A. Breuer whom was told, at least as far back as April 2010 about Operation Wide Receiver (which also ivolved gun walking, albeit with a more plkausible cover story) and whom Senator Chuck Grassley said in December should be fired. Breuer represented Clinton during the impeachment inquiry and also Sandy Burglar later. There could be connections, other things altogether.

    was employed by the previous Administration in different operations and was stopped by this Attorney General

    Is chutzpah a sufficient word for this? It was only stopped because Brian Terry was killed in December, 2010, and guns that were traced back to the Fast and Furious operation.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  59. It’s human nature: people have a deficient learning curve about the wisdom of hiding secrets when it is “their team” on the field playing defense. But everyone knows that there are certain “iron laws” of political scandal. First is the familiar principle that the cover-up is always worse than the original wrongdoing. Second, is that inevitably someone inside the Administration leaks material to contradict the claim that stonewalling isn’t what is happening. The inevitable response to that is to double down further, while the political optics deteriorate. Leaks from inside have already occurred in this one, with the disclosure to the Committee by someone inside DOJ or ATF of some search warrant materials that exposed some of Holder’s misrepresentations. It seems like there is always someone — whose sense of justice is offended or who has grievances — who is willing to expose dirty laundry.

    The same principles will obviously operate with respect to the national security leaks imbroglio and it poses the possibility of evolving in similar fashion. If so, there will be great irony in the fact that this Administration — which has aggressively promoted itself with self-serving leaks concerning national security issues — is laid low by someone inside who is leaking.

    prosecutor (5eb0b6)

  60. I believe that the Obama administration is sorry…

    …sorry that they got caught.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  61. Note two qualifications here:

    That is why we have provided Congress every document that pertains to the operation itself that uh, is at issue here [1] when you talk about the family that you referred to [Q. the Terry family] the Terry family

    Every document for whose non-supply the committee voted Holder in contempt for, that specifically concerned Brian Terry.

    But not all the documents Conmgres asked for, and not all the documents subppenaed here, and not all the documents about why the whole thing happened. But only documents related to Brian Terry.

    Get it?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  62. Sammy – Why don’t you outline the history and tactics of Operation Wide Receiver and the relevance to the Obama Crime Family constantly bringing it up to explain away the completely different Operation Fast and Furious and their lies to Congress?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  63. Here’s the key difference;

    http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/features/224570

    narciso (8bfa44)

  64. Jon Stewart has put a great big oar in the water on this situation and it does not play at all well for the president and the attorney general. (linked at Hot Air in 2 parts) He enlightens and and he mocks. I believe a lot of newcomers to the F&F story and the executive privilege add-on will see Stewart’s “take” and be shocked. It’s not perfect, but in his piece Stewart did a darn good job of showing the ugliness and the hypocrisy of this administration, IMO. He admitted it was nearly impossible to make any aspect of the story “funny”.

    elissa (c64cb9)

  65. narciso – Unless Holder has other documents proving otherwise, we know he has also lied twice in congressional testimony within the past couple of weeks about Attorney General Mukasey’s knowledge of Operation Wide Receiver.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  66. Daley – they both involved guns. And Mexicans. Duh

    JD (33493e)

  67. “Jon Stewart has put a great big oar in the water on this situation and it does not play at all well for the president and the attorney general.”

    elissa – I enjoy the witch hunt, partisan bickering debate I get around here.

    So, you’re telling me it is the policy of the Democrat Party to knowingly arm violent drug cartels and that people objecting to that should just STFU?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  68. I denounce myself.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  69. daleyrocks, if you’re talking about the Pakistani Doctor he put his life on the line for us.

    Actually, it doesn’t matter.

    He has been seen as such. And now we must be seen as such.

    Steve57 (c441a6)

  70. It’s right up there with his post Elian claim, that the child wasn’t terrified, because the finger was on the MP-5’s guard, not the trigger,

    narciso (8bfa44)

  71. Sammy, I think that if you would dive into the details of Operation Gunrunner (the ATF op under Bush) that they maintained “contact” with the purchaser to see who he/she was passing the weapons off to.
    And, AFAIK, that if the weapons were about to cross over the border into Mexico, the perp was arrested and the weapons taken into custody.
    None of that happened in F&F.
    There was no on-going surveillance – they just waited for the guns/etc, to show up at a crime scene, either in the USA, or Mexico.
    Also, under Bush, the Mexican Government was in on the deal; under Obama, they were kept out of the loop – a loop that included the Dept of State, the CIA, and (apparently) the Dept of Defense, plus the usual suspects with DoJ.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  72. Operation Gunrunner“….meant “Operation Wide-Receiver”.

    AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92)

  73. When you make excuses, narcisso, you develop a rep for making excuses.

    Steve57 (c441a6)

  74. Here’s the main points, from that piece;

    Some firearms in Wide Receive were equipped with RFID tracking devices. In Wide Receiver, it seems the illegal purchasers seemed more than slightly knowledgeable of the way the ATF and how to take their aerial and electronic tracking procedures down.

    Knowing the time aloft numbers for virtually all planes used in government surveillance, the buyers had a simple method of getting their purchases across the border undetected. They simply drove four-hour loops around the area.

    As surveillance planes were forced to return to base for re-fueling, the smugglers simply turned and sprinted their cargo across the border.

    The RFID tags also turned out to be problematic.

    Rather than making large enough holes for the tags to be laid out inside weapons, agents force-fit them into the rifles.

    That cramming caused the antennae to be folded, reducing the effective range of the tags. And an already short battery life (36-48 hours maximum) meant that should purchasers allow the firearms to sit, the tracking devices eliminated themselves.

    narciso (8bfa44)

  75. there is at least one key difference between “Gun Walker” and “Fast & Furious”… see the graphic at the bottom of the page. (link first seen @ Ace’s place)

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  76. ==So, you’re telling me it is the policy of the Democrat Party to knowingly arm violent drug cartels and that people objecting to that should just STFU?==

    Weeel, that’s essentially what Debbie Wasserman Schultz implied and I seem to recall that she speaks for the Democratic National Committee. You can draw your own conclusions.

    elissa (c64cb9)

  77. what is almost funny about the SCOAMF and his regime claiming that “Bush did it too!” is that we all know they would have dragged that sort of thing out in the open as soon as they found it, so they could use it for political fodder.

    now they are just trying to escape the noose, and are tossing out every lie and smokescreen they can think of.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  78. When you make excuses, narcisso, you develop a rep for making excuses.

    Comment by Steve57 — 6/22/2012 @ 12:36 pm

    “Tautology, Illustrated.”

    I won’t comment otherwise, lest I take the Lord’s name in vein.

    Steve57 (c441a6)

  79. “daleyrocks, if you’re talking about the Pakistani Doctor he put his life on the line for us.”

    Steve57 – No, I was sticking to arming Mexican drug cartels.

    I you remember back in February 2009, Holder began making public remarks about stricter gun control and was smacked down for talking out of school.

    The Administration was trumpeting those bogus statistics about the percentage of guns recovered in Mexico that come from the U.S. (much like the continued bogus statistics Obama continues to spout on oil reserves) and in March, Clinton, Big Sis and Holder all started making announcements about the increased resources they were devoting to Mexico and the Southern border, including references to Operation Gun Runner.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  80. “Weeel, that’s essentially what Debbie Wasserman Schultz implied and I seem to recall that she speaks for the Democratic National Committee. You can draw your own conclusions.”

    elissa – I also denounced myself because obviously dishonesty, incompetence, corruption, and obfuscation by government officials are code words for raaaaaacism.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  81. daleyrocks, if you’re talking about the Pakistani Doctor he put his life on the line for us.”

    Steve57 – No, I was sticking to arming Mexican drug cartels.

    My mistake.

    Steve57 (c441a6)

  82. Go away kid, you bother me.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  83. Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 6/22/2012 @ 12:33 pm

    Sammy, I think that if you would dive into the details of Operation Gunrunner (the ATF op under Bush) that they maintained “contact” with the purchaser to see who he/she was passing the weapons off to.

    I will check into that.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  84. 84. Wide receiver.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  85. 84. Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 6/22/2012 @ 12:33 pm

    Sammy, I think that if you would dive into the details of Operation Gunrunner (the ATF op under Bush) that they maintained “contact” with the purchaser to see who he/she was passing the weapons off to.

    I will check into that.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman — 6/22/2012 @ 2:43 pm

    I believe the Bushies also let the Mexicans know we were going to let guns drift into their country.

    Something tells me that had I been Mexican I’d have found that significant.

    Steve57 (c441a6)

  86. “I believe the Bushies also let the Mexicans know we were going to let guns drift into their country.”

    Steve57 – Correct. Whereas in Fast and Furious they were not informed that guns would be allowed to cross the border without any monitoring attempts.

    Sammy has been regurgitating a lot of Administration talking points without question for some reason lately.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  87. OK, here’s my theory on what really happened:

    1. Under the Bush administration ATF ran this Wide Receiver program, more or less responsibly, and when the cartels caught on to it the ATF shut it down.

    2. A new administration comes in, and the Sinaloa cartel sees an opportunity. They bribe some middle-to-low-level ATF people to revive the program, but with none of the safeguards it had in its first incarnation.

    3. Those bribed ATF people, whose motive is not at all political, have to convince their higher-ups. To this end they mislead the new political appointees about the nature of the previous operation. The new 0bama guys think, “Well, if this was an ongoing operation that the Bush people OK’d, then it should be OK; why do our own due diligence when we can rely on theirs? Besides, if it ever goes wrong we can just blame them.”

    4. Some 0bama people who learned about this program may have had ideas that it could prove useful for various goals of theirs: undermining the 2nd amendment, destabilising Mexico and/or Honduras, etc. But there was no official plan and none of these ideas were widely discussed within the administration. Most were probably only marginally aware of it and it never occurred to them to pay it much attention.

    5. The Mexican government (which had no idea this was going on) started reporting a spike in violence and in US-sourced weapons seized from criminals. Various of the usual suspects jumped on this opportunity to trash the 2nd amendment, either not knowing at the time about Gunwalker, or not connecting the dots. (e.g. the released ATF emails seem to show that the person who wrote them was not in on Gunwalker.)

    6. Brian Terry’s death causes some ATF agents who know about the program to blow the whistle. Now all the dots start to come together, and some people who had either taken stupid public positions (mostly anti-2A) or who had some knowledge but ought to have had more, feel embarrassed and launch a cover-up.

    7. From there things play out much as one would expect them to; cf Watergate.

    The advantage of this scenario is that it explains everything we’ve seen without resorting to “outlandish” conspiracy theories; known human behaviour is enough to explain it.

    Milhouse (312124)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.1061 secs.