Boehner doesn’t want it to happen. It might make him cry.
But it looks like Issa’s talking about standing tall. I hope he manages to, despite the opposition of the weak-willed people in so-called “leadership.”
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DING!
Patterico (906cfb) — 6/19/2012 @ 6:53 pmOne can only hope. Boehner has proven himself to be quite a disappointment, along with the majority of other so-called leaders in the GOP.
r2 (d00470) — 6/19/2012 @ 7:24 pmthis isn’t terribly meaningful is it – who isn’t contemptuous of congress?
They’re whores.
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 6/19/2012 @ 7:24 pmFeets, if my understanding is correct a contempt citation would mean that Holder can’t go to the Senate dining room on Wednesday for their wonderful navy bean soup.
JVW (f28a18) — 6/19/2012 @ 7:40 pmbut people can still bring him some tasty soup in a styrofoam cup and he can heat it up in a microwave-safe bowl back at his office
god bless america!
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 6/19/2012 @ 7:44 pmI don’t need to vote. I already have nothing but contempt for Holder.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 6/19/2012 @ 7:48 pmHolder’s contempt and racism should be campaign issues. Let’s see how long it takes Obama to throw Holder under the bus.
PCD (a251da) — 6/19/2012 @ 7:51 pmBut answer this question …
What is a contempt citation worth ?
My understanding is that a contempt citation and $5 will get you sum coffee at St.Arbucks.
Nobody really wants a contempt citation; they want to see the documents.
Neo (d1c681) — 6/19/2012 @ 7:54 pmI’ll just say that during an illness, or going downhill on a mountain when the breaks are out, one may cross “the point of no return” but you will not know when it was until in retrospect, when it is too late.
We are either a nation of laws, or a nation of “men”. If people in the highest levels of leadership do not abide by the law and others do not have the courage to hold them accountable to the law, we are in a bad place.
MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 6/19/2012 @ 8:13 pmIts actually clear that Holder has perjured himself before Congress, and should be impeached and prosecuted.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/19/2012 @ 8:15 pmIf I’m romney’s campaign manager, every other ad is filled with Eric Holder and the tag line: “this is Obama’s idea of ‘justice.'”
Fast and furious alone would drain his Latino support. Somehow I don’t they’ll be fine with selling guns to the cartels who are murdering their families in the streets and dumping their headless bodies on the border.
Call it a hunch.
Ghost (6f9de7) — 6/19/2012 @ 8:28 pmWho did Holder think he was fooling with his “Extraordinary Offer” nonsense?
BTW, did Obama get his Uncle Omar a work permit? He’s a little north of that 18-30 age range that was mentioned in his speech last week.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/19/2012 @ 8:32 pmFollowing the contempt vote, when Holder further ignores the will of the House, they should initiate the impeachment proceedings.
AD-RtR/OS! (2bb434) — 6/19/2012 @ 8:44 pmCry me a river.
AZ Bob (1c9631) — 6/19/2012 @ 9:04 pmDid he really offer to brief them on the documents that they refused to submit?
JD (318f81) — 6/19/2012 @ 9:05 pmComment by Ghost — 6/19/2012 @ 8:28 pm
If I’m romney’s campaign manager, every other ad is filled with Eric Holder and the tag line: “this is Obama’s idea of ‘justice.’”
He wouldn’t remotely attempt anything as controversial as that.
Fast and furious alone would drain his Latino support. Somehow I don’t they’ll be fine with selling guns to the cartels who are murdering their families in the streets and dumping their headless bodies on the border.
Interesting idea. Of course the idea arose deep in the BATF bureaucracy, and also took place during the Bush Administration (except that then at least they pretended the Mexican government was to follow-up) and in the Tampa Bay area (where the guns, I think, were going to Honduras. hat was called I think Operation Gunrunner.
No, Gunrunner was in Arizona – maybe another name for Fast and Furious. Tampa was Gunwalker.
http://nation.foxnews.com/gunwalker-scandal/2011/07/10/atf-tampa-division-walked-guns-honduras-and-ms13-gang-members
No wait – the operation as a whole is/was called Gunrunner or Gunwalker. Fast and Furious was a small piece of it.
oversight.house.gov
oversight.house.gov/wp-content/…/7-26-11_Leadmon_FF_Testimony.pdf
clipped from Google – 6/2012
STATEMENT OF MORTON ROSENBERG CONSTITUTION PROJECT
oversight.house.gov
oversight.house.gov/wp-content/…/6-13-11_Rosenberg_Testimony.pdf
STATEMENT OF MORTON ROSENBERG CONSTITUTION PROJECT
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
Operation Fast and Furious is part of the broader Gunrunner project
This is actually corruption, not stupidity and not anti-gun politics.
Holder’s problem is that some of the people involved became or were favored by people higher up, and there were too many clues, and this whole thing was tolerated.
Why are they forgetting about the rest of it and just talking about Fast and Furious?
Sammy Finkelman (cd2969) — 6/19/2012 @ 9:09 pmEric Holder claims that he will now turn over everything except what it is against the law for him to turn over. Is it against the law even if subpoenaed?
Sammy Finkelman (cd2969) — 6/19/2012 @ 9:12 pmI believe at this point Holder is being used and manipulated by the White House and the campaign and he is an absolute fool to let them do it.
They would like nothing better than to exploit a legitimate contempt of congress proceeding to further their phony “Republicans are racists” agenda. At the first hint of it I hope Issa is strong enough to say, “Look, the AG of the United States–our chief law enforcement officer- was duly warned that he would be in contempt of congress if he refused to provide documents pertaining to Fast and Furious. This is not personal. This is business. Neither Mr Holder or I had any control over the race of our parents. Neither Agent Terry, Special agent Jaime Zapata or the over 200 Mexican citizens who were killed as a result of Fast and Furious guns had any control over the race of their parents. This has nothing to do with race. It is a scandal and a human tragedy for two nations. We must get to the bottom of it.”
elissa (912500) — 6/19/2012 @ 9:20 pmIt seems to me that he is refusing to turn over material claiming it to be ‘against the law’ to the very people that write and pass the bills into law, therefore it would seem very straight forward to have Congress carve out and exception to the law in question, since they routinely do so for far more idiotic purposes, like lining their won pockets or creating loopholes for themselves large enough to navigate the ‘Big Stick’ through. I would ask him what law he is speaking of and how it immunizes him or his minions from the Constitutional oversight of a Congressional Subpoena and the perhaps resulting contempt of Congress, should they continue down this road of duplicity.
r2 (d00470) — 6/19/2012 @ 9:21 pmWhile I agree with every character you typed (and added an apostrophe), I am struck dumb and terrified by the extraordinary partisanship of the Congress.
Evidently, a couple hundred dead Mexicans and a couple dead American LEOs do not matter one whit, set against Holder’s party. If that does not horrify and sicken the entire populace, we are lost, and the sane amongst us need to find ourselves a sufficient territory to ride out the coming disaster.
Dianna (f12db5) — 6/19/2012 @ 10:26 pmHolder hasn’t offered any legitimate reason for not complying with the subpoena – now he says he will turn over all the docs except those “it is illegal to turn over.” What the heck does that mean?
The committee doesn’t want the names of CIs or contacts in the Mexican government or the cartels. They want to know who at DOJ and the White House knew what, and when, about the program that resulted in hundreds of deaths including at least one US Border Agent. How could that violate any law?
Estragon (13e813) — 6/20/2012 @ 1:10 amBottom line: Holder isn’t leaving them any choice but to vote contempt, probably on direct orders from Obama, and they will try to make political hay out of it somehow.
Beats running on their record of failure and deceit, I suppose.
Estragon (13e813) — 6/20/2012 @ 1:11 amForget contempt. The House should have impeached him a year ago. It should still do so now; I think it has a duty to do so. Yes, of course the Senate will acquit him; so what?
Milhouse (312124) — 6/20/2012 @ 1:40 amThe crybaby speaker of the house should be impeached for impersonating a conservative. Republicans have no guts or savvy.
mg (44de53) — 6/20/2012 @ 2:27 amWell the good news is this will take so long to develop into litigation that Holder will not receive a Presidential pardon.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/06/your-right-to-know-more-racy-photos-of-obamas-mother-discovered-video/#comments
Dog’s a dressed up stray and being returned to feral status.
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 6/20/2012 @ 4:32 amAccelerant on his clothing, in the trunk of his limo, on Bo’s feet:
MM “Ten years ago, the feds had a fleet of 44 firefighting planes. Today, the number is down to nine for the entire country. Last summer, Obama’s National Forest Service canceled a key federal contract with Sacramento-based Aero Union just as last season’s wildfires were raging. Aero Union had supplied eight vital air tankers to Washington’s dwindling aerial firefighting fleet. Two weeks later, the company closed down, and 60 employees lost their jobs. Aero Union had been a leader in the business for a half-century.”
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 6/20/2012 @ 5:00 ampaws*
gary gulrud (dd7d4e) — 6/20/2012 @ 5:03 amI’m waiting to see what coordinated anti-Republican story will develop today to distract the public from the contempt vote.
Amphipolis (d3e04f) — 6/20/2012 @ 6:55 amThe White House asserting executive privilege over the documents this morning certainly signals there was nothing to hide even though Holder’s latest ploy was to turn over only a fraction of the subpoenaed documents conditioned on the withdrawal of the subpoena. Nothing like moving the story onto the front burner, where it has never been.
Heckuva job Barcky!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2012 @ 8:37 amWell, in fairness daley, Valerie Jarrett has been somewhat preoccupied of late what with her daughter’s wedding and all. Sometimes when we’re tired and stressed we don’t think as clearly or make the best decisions.
elissa (29f6c8) — 6/20/2012 @ 8:59 amSince when has VJ made any good decisions?
AD-RtR/OS! (b8ab92) — 6/20/2012 @ 9:09 amComment by Estragon — 6/20/2012 @ 1:10 am
The committee doesn’t want the names of CIs or contacts in the Mexican government or the cartels. They want to know who at DOJ and the White House knew what, and when, about the program that resulted in hundreds of deaths including at least one US Border Agent. How could that violate any law?
He’s claiming the subpoenaed information he won’t turn over deals with internal deliberations or ongoing cases.
I don’t think it’s against the law to comply – at most (see below) it might be within his prerogatives not to. But I think he would have to claim the exemption and there’s no obstacle to waiving any such claim.
These claimed exemptions from the subpoena are really just about everything. Of course cases can easily stay “open” for years. And internal deliberations, of course, is exactly what Congress is interested in here.
Holder may be claiming a general exemption from the subpoena and treating this as some sort of Freedom of Information Act request that, unlike real FOIA requests that he might get, will get a very timely response..
I think both of his claimed exemptions are exceptions to FOIA requests, but they are not exceptions to Congress’s subpoena power. He may just be denying Congress has any subpoena power over the Executive branch. (I don’t know – the New York Times had no article on this today and I only have the Wall Street Journal on page A6 and almost have to read between the lines)
The idea that Congress has no right to subpoena executive branch documents, a position maintained by many Administrations, but not in practice, held to. They’ve always volunteered stuff while denying there is a right to subpoena anything.
And Holder is not in fact completely holding to it now. He offered some crumbs to Issa if Issa would agree that that complied with the subpoena. (that is, would withdraw the subpoena for anything more)
As far as I know, Congress is not asking for grand jury information, which actually might be illegal to release. But even that can be released.
Sammy Finkelman (cd2969) — 6/20/2012 @ 9:15 amNixon called his claimed immunity from scrutiny over internal deliberations “Executive Privilege” and I think the Supreme Court upheld it a little bit.
And that seems to be what’s happening now:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57456848-503544/white-house-grants-executive-privilege-over-fast-and-furious-documents/White House Grants Executive Privilege Over Fast and Furious Documents
– CBS News June 20, 2012 10:21 AM
Executive privilege belongs to the president, not other people in his administration, and it has to be invoked by the president, even though assurances of confidentiality on the grounds that way they’ll give and he’ll get honest advice is the argument for it, and it can be waived. And it usually is in any controversial case so that it doesn’t become a test case.
Sammy Finkelman (cd2969) — 6/20/2012 @ 9:20 amEven though I botched up entering the short link, the link still works, I think.
Sammy Finkelman (cd2969) — 6/20/2012 @ 9:23 am“Well, in fairness daley, Valerie Jarrett has been somewhat preoccupied of late what with her daughter’s wedding and all. Sometimes when we’re tired and stressed we don’t think as clearly or make the best decisions.”
elissa – I agree that Presidenting can be stressful and Ms. Jarrett needs to be at her best when making those gutsy decisions, but those special family moments are important breaks we all need take from other commitments.
I’m just sorry the Olympic bid did not work out for Ms. Jarrett to further line her pockets at the public trough.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2012 @ 9:25 amFrom CBS:
In a letter to President Obama asking for executive privilege, the attorney general wrote “that the Committee has not established that privileged documents are demonstrably critical to the responsible fulfillment of the Committee’s legitimate legislative functions.”
A White House aide told CBS News that this is the first time President Obama has asserted executive privilege, and noted that President George W. Bush used the privilege six times and President Bill Clinton used it 14 times.
He wouldn’t invoke it on any kind of national security question – only on this. For something like this, it is worth looking like Nixon.
And he’s not even appointing any kind of special internal investigator
Sammy Finkelman (cd2969) — 6/20/2012 @ 9:26 am“He wouldn’t invoke it on any kind of national security question – only on this. For something like this, it is worth looking like Nixon.”
Sammy – Obama was also against Executive Privilege before he was for it, so he’s got that hypocrisy thing going again, which is nice.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2012 @ 9:34 amThe Justice Department does have an internal investigator – Inspector General Michael Horowitz, who was confirmed in March, may have a report next month. The Inspector general has seen 80,000 documents, Congress (so far) only 7000 to 8,000
Two subprobes have been launched from it:
1) Who leaked information about who told lawmakers about Fast and Furious?
2) Was such leaking retaliation for telling lawmakers?
Dennis Burke, who resigned (under pressure) as U.S. Attorney in Arizona has acknowledged he leaked information about a memo by ATF agent John Dodson to a reporter. The memo detailed a previous request by Dodson to use tactics similar to fast and Furious (which Dodson had criticized)
I also saw an opinion column in the New York Post. Michael A. Walsh writes about what caused this.
On February 4, 2011, Assistant Attorney General Ron Weich wrote a letter denying that ATF “knowingly allowed the sale of assault weapons” to straw buyers acing on behalf of Mexican drug cartels.
In December 2011, Attorney general Holder “withdrew” the letter, but refused to say anything more.
The Wall Street Journal reports today that Justice Department documents show that gun-walking tactics during the Bush Administration were uncovered by Obama Administration officials and the matter was discussed with ATF officials. But they never alerted Holder about it, didn’t do anything to prevent this from being repeated (and worse) and didn’t know till months later that Fast and Furious was underway. according to the documents.
One thing that people have to remember is that Fast and Furious is only part of a much bigger things and guns were also sent to Honduras from Florida.
Sammy Finkelman (cd2969) — 6/20/2012 @ 9:48 am“The Wall Street Journal reports today that Justice Department documents show that gun-walking tactics during the Bush Administration were uncovered by Obama Administration officials and the matter was discussed with ATF officials.”
Sammy – This is the Red Herring the Holder DOJ loves to bring up. My understanding is that under the Bush Admin. there was at least an attempt to track the weapons as opposed to the insane program under the Obama Admin. RFID tags were embedded in weapons so they could be tracked, but smugglers used a variety of tactics to defeat the tracking. This is well documented, but blaming Bush for its failures is SOP for this administration.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2012 @ 9:55 am“The Justice Department does have an internal investigator – Inspector General Michael Horowitz, who was confirmed in March”
Sammy – The DOJ previously had a woman who had worked for Holder before in charge of the investigation and producing the report. It was due out in the February time frame. It sounds to me like Holder made a switch to delay production of the report.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2012 @ 9:59 amIn May 2009, Obama did reserve for himself the right to invoke executive privilege when he signed a bill tha, among other things, created an independent panel to investigate the root causes of the nation’s economic downturn.
Obama Signs
Financial Bill, Creating Investigative Panel
by Kate Phillips (New York Times “The Caucus” Blog)
But after signing the bill, the White House issued what is called a signing statement by Mr. Obama, which includes this advisory to agencies about the financial panel’s potential reach:
This panel turned out to be mostly useless.
Sammy Finkelman (cd2969) — 6/20/2012 @ 9:59 amSammy – From the other thread:
Byron York just tweeted this:
Issa: Holder now retracts claim that AG predecessor, Michael Mukasey, knew about F&F-like program.
Hm…
Comment by Dana — 6/20/2012 @ 9:54 am
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2012 @ 10:01 am“In May 2009, Obama did reserve for himself the right to invoke executive privilege when he signed a bill tha,”
Sammy – That’s not executive privilege in the sense of preserving information to prevent oversight and transparency.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 6/20/2012 @ 10:03 am