Patterico's Pontifications

6/5/2012

Election Open Thread: Walker Wins

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 6:55 pm



Post about what interests you, include links to election returns, and so forth. Sounds like the big news is that NBC has called Wisconsin for Walker.

403 Responses to “Election Open Thread: Walker Wins”

  1. Which: holy mackerel.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  2. I expected the recall to fail, but looks like Walker did far better than I expected.

    This is an emasculation catastrophe for the union thugs.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  3. Whew, I can exhale.

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  4. The exit polls also showed that 60 percent of Wisconsin voters today said recall elections are only appropriate for official misconduct, while 28 percent think they are suitable for any reason. Nine percent think they are never appropriate.

    Via CBS.

    What a massive waste of money this recall was. And all Walker did was try to cut some red ink. Who is going to pay for the democrat effort to undo the last election?

    I agree that recalls for mere policy differences are a very bad idea.

    Dustin (330eed)

  5. I hope someone will attempt to calculate what this extra election and the recall petition process that led up to it cost the citizens of WI in terms of actual dollars. I hope this amount of unnecessary expenditure is headlined far and wide. I hope comparisons are made in terms of what that same money could have bought or provided in services and salaries had it not been wasted on this ridiculous recall election.

    elissa (21d2f6)

  6. This is a firm referendum on the public sector unions. Hopefully, it will be the beginning of seeing other states taking them on… of course the states need to have someone with the will and steel to do so. And public support. Unfortunately, that leaves Cali out of the mix.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  7. The writing has been on the wall for this one for a long time. The way you could tell was that national Democrats, especially Obama, started steering clear of the place, and left wing pundits started to write about how it wasn’t really very important and wouldn’t mean anything if Walker won it.

    Once I saw that kind of thing happening, I knew it was in the bag.

    Steven Den Beste (99cfa1)

  8. Well, give Obama a little credit: he tweeted his support of Barrett.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  9. What a massive waste of money this recall was.

    Not to mention the SC recall thing, etc. It’s been a year of unions dragging WI through the political mud.

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  10. Watching MSNBC is epic funny.

    JD (318f81)

  11. Obama is going to need that billion dollars in Goldman Sachs campaign donations to campaign in all the states that are going to be in play this fall.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  12. Yes, Patricia.

    As Feingold said, it’s not over until they win.

    Dustin (330eed)

  13. Believe it or not Rahm has already taken some steps with respect to the teachers’ union and length of school day in Chicago. This result tonight will embolden him and other Dem big city mayors and blue state governors further (in a good way) I suspect. I think a *lot* of people whom one might normally expect to be, were secretly hoping Walker would prevail.

    elissa (21d2f6)

  14. Money bought this election, 7:1. No mention of the thousands and thousand of hours from the Unions in man hours at the protests, riots, etc ….

    JD (318f81)

  15. JD, that’s MSNBC and Madcow’s version. Because they deliberately omit the union’s funding.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  16. With 40% of precincts reporting – walker is up 59/40. Though I was expecting 61 to 62% for walker.

    Oddly, as of 6pm CBS was reporting the exit polls and pre-election polling showed the race was extremely close. As of 9pm cdt, the huff post headline showed it to be close race.
    I doubt the media missed the gap – I suspect they were still trying to influence an election.

    joe (93323e)

  17. With 40% of precincts reporting – walker is up 59/40. Though I was expecting 61 to 62% for walker.

    Oddly, as of 6pm CBS was reporting the exit polls and pre-election polling showed the race was extremely close. As of 9pm cdt, the huff post headline showed it to be close race.
    I doubt the media missed the gap – I suspect they were still trying to influence an election.

    joe (93323e)

  18. SPQR – it is literally fun to watch MSNBC tonight.

    JD (318f81)

  19. JD, if you like bad clowns.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  20. Here is the live results site, FYI:
    http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/june-5-recall-election-results-155977565.html

    60:40 for walker with 40% of the vote in, the Lieutenant gov and 3 state senators (R’s) are also winning by big margins, though one of the state senate races only has a small 5 of votes counted

    Looking at the map, as expected, Dane Co home of madison is big for Barrett, other counties where barrett is ahead are few and more of a 50:50 split

    as you may have seen elsewhere, the largest public sector union in Wisconsin has lost 2/3 of its membership since mandatory membership has no longer been the rule

    sanity appears to have prevailed in one part of the world tonight

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  21. SPQR – I hate clowns. Watching them try to turn this into a win for Obama and the Dems is hysterical.

    JD (318f81)

  22. Funniest is Lawrence O’Donnell dressed like an undertaker. As he ends a segment he says that Walker and Kleefish have retained their seats, then looks down and grimaces as if they punched him in the gut!

    Their bitter tears taste so sweet.

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  23. The Union Thugs got crushed. Read Badger Blogger for the best coverage of WI politics.

    PCD (047517)

  24. ______________________________________________

    Walker Wins

    I hope that’s a heading you’ll be able to use for Aaron in the future.

    sanity appears to have prevailed in one part of the world tonight

    And a lack of such would be those voters from the private sector who nonetheless feel warm and fuzzy towards the public sector in general. A public sector that often has plentiful payrolls, plentiful staffing, and great pension, health and vacation plans. And cushy incomes for its employees, who have done better over the past few decades than what folks in the private sector have experienced.

    Oh, and a bloated bureaucracy — at the local, state and federal levels — that in too many instances does nothing but force the public to fill in (and pay for) reams of paperwork imposed upon society by meddlesome rules and regulations, which, in turn, are then shuffled with wild abandon by the bureaucrats.

    Mark (aa1ab7)

  25. Here’s another funny: The CNN.com headline still says Walker narrowly wins recall while their election ticker shows a 57 to 42 percent margin.

    Never give up the narrative! because it hurts.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  26. Ag – the leftists are still sticking with that, as they expect huge outputs from Dane Co and Milwaukee. Yet they have also called the Walker win 😉

    JD (318f81)

  27. Blowout?

    Patricia (e1d89d)

  28. It’s a blowout down-ballot, too. Republicans lead all 4 recalled Senate seats by double digits, although one of them is early numbers still. Full current results.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  29. LOL

    LegalInsurrection is playing John Phillip Sousa Stars and Stripes Forever.

    elissa (21d2f6)

  30. Professor Jacobson is celebrating. Fireworks and Sousa.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  31. hmmphh

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  32. Why is it so wrong for Walker to have raised a boatload of money for this election, but a-okay for Obama to have raised a boatload for 2008 campaign? It must be something like Koch Bros = bad; Soros = good. Stick with the basic premise.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  33. I wonder how those progressive kooks that have been SWATting and tyrannizing bloggers and tea partiers feel about now. You know, with the inevitability creeping in that Obama is very likely going to be thrown out of office with great energy (along with potentially a Senate swing as well).

    May we remind them that their President was kind enough to give President Romney and the conservatives a surveillance state that now monitors and logs every email and social network message, every financial transaction, every phone call logged and profiled. Something like that could be really useful. It’s a shame no progressives spoke up when the libertarians asked for support in opposing this stuff.

    Last chance for progressives to demand the spying on citizens and drones be prohibited now. Don’t count on a conservative president to make it his issue to ban, and left in the wrong hands, I’d hate to be a radical anti-democratic progressive next year…

    Recall the Whitehouse (b0bb5a)

  34. Middle sis just called(Waukesha County, the smidge in Ryan’s 1st), they are really going to be hoarse in the morning.

    Her husband’s a local steward in the City of Waukesha Schools too.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  35. Got a tour of Heritage Foundation Thursday last from 1st sister’s pride and joy.

    Then sat in the House Gallery for Steve King, R-IA, using his full half-hour to blister the paint on the walls.

    Been a good week.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  36. Comment by Recall the Whitehouse — 6/5/2012 @ 7:56 pm

    I hope your fevered dreams never come to fruition.

    JD (318f81)

  37. _______________________________________________

    then looks down and grimaces as if they punched him in the gut!

    So what’s it to O’Donnell? Is his wife employed by the government? Is MSNBC owned and operated by the public sector? Are many of his close relatives or friends a part of the staffing of the bureaucracy?

    I can see various workers in government, at the local, state and federal levels, being mindlessly liberal and pro-Democrat-Party, because they at least get something out of what’s sort of a Faustian bargain. For much of the rest of the populace, certainly that which also is of the left, what do they get out of the deal?

    Even if such voters are dependent on welfare, food stamps or Medicare, they still aren’t as well compensated as are so many of the bureaucrats who staff the programs and ideas that originate from the era of the “Great Society” and “War on Poverty,” or a bloated EPA, or the leeches that glom onto — and twist and pervert — as one example, the Americans with Disabilities Act.

    Mark (aa1ab7)

  38. May we remind them that their President was kind enough to give President Romney and the conservatives a surveillance state that now monitors and logs every email and social network message, every financial transaction, every phone call logged and profiled. Something like that could be really useful. It’s a shame no progressives spoke up when the libertarians asked for support in opposing this stuff.

    We lost a lot of freedom on 9/11.

    And since then it hasn’t been getting better.

    And there are terrific examples I could make for when a high degree of government surveillance would prevent real evil.

    Yet I’m with JD in hoping that we take a sharp turn back towards freedom.

    President Romney would be very brave to dismantle the TSA and reverse a great deal of surveillance. I think we wouldn’t be any less safe. Unfortunately, our society would blame him if anything went wrong. And politicians are reacting to this. We need to change as a society, by not expecting the government to be everywhere and handle everything.

    Dustin (330eed)

  39. gary gurland,

    What an opportunity to tour Heritage Foundation. They do great work. Is Steve King the one who came out strongly against Holder and protecting illegals voting?

    Dana (4eca6e)

  40. The silly thing is they will think the Koch brothers somehow engineered this stunning win.

    As much as the left thinks, people are not stupid. They now can see real results. They can see what happens when the shackles of state-mandated, corrupt union oppression are loosed. They can see that people matter and the fruits of the peoples’ labor goes to their families and their communities rather than the state and union cronies.

    All of the money and all of the “evil” and all of the “cheating” of the right could not for one minute result in the returns of this election.

    The idea of unions is not bad. The execution is the problem, especially in the public sector. When the left realizes this, then some semblance of sanity in our economy can return.

    Let’s hope this is the first indication of the return to sanity.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  41. Guess Barry had better start clearing out his desk…

    Gazzer (781de2)

  42. And now, CNN says Walker drew “millions,” meaning dollars from “outside the state,” as if the Democrats didn’t do the same.

    Bah.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  43. Lawrence O’Donnell is claiming that a 20 point win is “barely winning”.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  44. 36. Indeed, let us not in celebration of this great butt-whipping forget the good news:

    Slick is not merely off the reservation, he is torpedoing the flag ship, starting with “Romney’s business career was stellar”.

    Soros says the EU has 3 months to part the sea of red. They have no prayer. Spain has 5 Billion, is being offered 50, is asking for 90 and needs 350.

    Dog is getting the hook, no question anymore. Its the beginning of June with the all the good news behind him.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  45. It’s funny how many of the MSM are reacting to this like a natural disaster. “where did things go wrong?!?” type reactions. It must have been the campaign contributions! It must be that the WI economy is doing better!

    Maybe it’s because WI likes their governor, and it was inappropriate to waste millions recalling him when he has a tough job to do?

    Ever considered that?

    Dustin (330eed)

  46. MSNBC: Schultz On Walker Win: He Could “Be Indicted In The Next Few Days.” Schultz blamed GOP money for this result, but holds out hope that the Democrats can re-take the Wisconsin state senate. But Kevin M.’s link shows Republicans ahead in all the state senate races.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  47. They really hate Walker! Wow!

    Walker 2016! Whether we win in 2012 or not!

    Dustin (330eed)

  48. The dinosaurs also dimly saw the fireball in the sky, and wondered what it was, then they became mulch.

    narciso (494474)

  49. 39. I’m not certain of his accomplishments so much as he’s my Rep.’s closest associate in the House and a TEA bulldog.

    No, I dint get to meet Michele:(, but I was careful to tell her young aide how proud I was of the Congresswoman’s debates as she escorted me thru the Cannon tunnel.

    I quit with just the positives.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  50. No, narciso, the the dinosaurs became sweet oil, in abundance beneath our shores.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  51. Chris Cilizza addresses the money aspect of the recall and gives Walker due credit for playing it smart,

    Money: As of Monday, more than $63 million has been spent on the recall fight with Walker and his conservative allies vastly outspending Barrett and other Democratic-aligned groups.

    Walker himself had raised in excess of $30 million for the recall campaign while Barrett collected just under $4 million.

    Being outspent 10-1 (or worse) is never a recipe for success in a race. Democrats cried foul over Walker’s exploitation of a loophole that allowed him to collect unlimited contributions prior to the official announcement of the recall in late March. Of course, Democrats also pushed the recall and Walker played by the rules of the game — making what he did strategically smart rather than underhandedly nefarious.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  52. A lot of local govs were unable to answer requests for how much this recall cost, but those that did total up to about $7,900,000.

    I personally think they could have done more with that money than confirm that Walker should serve the term he was elected to.

    But there was a great deal at stake had he lost. The democrats wanted to send a message that politicians who cut the funding to a certain constituency will face this hassle. And I think that message was delivered whether Walker won or lost. That’s why I want to send a message that governors who lead like this are setting themselves up for loyalty from fans of limited government.

    Dustin (330eed)

  53. DRJ – isn’t it beautiful?

    JD (318f81)

  54. We need to all be stupid and vote for Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson in November in order to enable Obama to squeak by in a few critical swing states !

    Hopefully, this will be a harbinger of things to come in November.

    Come January 20, Barry will have plenty of time to play golf and eat his waffle.

    Elephant Stone (0ae97d)

  55. It is good, JD.

    I heard Rush Limbaugh today, he said a Walker loss or a close race would convince other GOP Governors that it’s too dangerous to be conservative and/or tough. I hope this result convinces elected Republican officials that it’s dangerous not to be conservative and tough.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  56. The raised-fist union thugs have spent millions to make Governor Walker the most powerful and popular Governor in the U.S.

    On, Wisconsin!

    Paul (ae96a4)

  57. Today’s Lesson is: Even in the public sector, when workers are given the right to opt in or out, most opt out. Most realize unions have little to offer but Marxist indoctrination, needless strikes, unsustainable pensions. The people support the right to choose union membership.

    Eric Cartman (3ed4f3)

  58. At the time of “Occupy Madison” the claim was that walker hid what he intended to do and that there was a low voter turn out, so what he and the repub legislature were doing was illegitimate.

    Well, I believe there was a significantly larger voter turnout now than in 2010, and a larger percentage margin of victory for Walker. In addition, the map of the state going for Walker now looks more (R) than when SC judge prosser won re-election. All suggesting that the Koch brothers got their money’s worth the typical person in Wisconsin has had enough and stood up with Walker and those in power since 2010.

    I find it hard to believe that Walker/GOP really has spent that much more than Barrett/Dems, but I’m not surprised they spent more because it seems the dems , inspite of what they may have said with words, with actions and money revealed they had seen what the outcome was going to be and didn’t keep committing resources at the end.

    As in “Swiftboating” having different connotations/meanings, now the cry of “Remember Wisconsin!!” will have greatly different meanings, depending upon one’s perspective.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  59. 54. In all sobriety, dear Mr. Stones, Obumblef*ck is dog food on the hoof.

    If someone worth spit were to toss their hat in the ring post-‘Review of the Democratic corpse’ in September the wretch, on whomever it falls to carry the banner for the Dimmis, could easily finish 3rd.

    BiteMe? Hyena laugh. Hillary is out, Bubba is just preparing the ground for 2016. No they need someone like Bayh to do a really stupid and futile turn for the party.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  60. Hey, Howard Fineman is about to give his words of wisdom on Sgt. Shultz’ show. This should be good.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  61. Walker is reacting to the victory with class.

    On the other hand, the AFL-CIO:

    Win or lose, Scott Walker has joinged ignominious company in suffering the humiliation of a recall election.

    That’s just ugly. Why hate the guy? Make your case to the voters. Your problem is with them.

    Dustin (330eed)

  62. Victory!
    We should collect Ed Schultz’ bitter tears. I hear they cure cancer…or at least can be used to rid a house of bed bugs! Victory is so sweet.

    EBL (f71fce)

  63. 61. The unions have let it be known that win or lose the recall they were going to take the war to the streets in WI.

    Going to be be bit treacherous without pants.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  64. It was pretty bad when the dems refused to even show up to vote, hoping to thwart the representatives of most of the state. It was even worse seeing Judge Prosser run over the coals. And now we have a wasted recall effort from a state that needs to save a few bucks.

    Wisconsin seems like a pretty nice place aside from the stubborn folks strategizing against the state’s wishes and interest.

    But this endless political fight has got to be ticking off a lot of people. If Obama loses Wisconsin, it will be hilarious.

    Dustin (330eed)

  65. I hope this result convinces elected Republican officials that it’s dangerous not to be conservative and tough.

    Comment by DRJ — 6/5/2012 @ 8:35 pm

    At the least it should show that people will contribute money to you if you stand strong on conservative principles. I gave $150 to Walker. Money doesn’t always make the difference but it’s nice to know you won’t be outspent.

    Gerald A (cc0aaa)

  66. The solution for the left, according to Fineman, is “Supermoney.” So all the President has to do is spend more Supermoney. Because, you know, Supermoney is all that matters. It’s all about $20 million.

    So, you stupid people, all that sways votes is this supermoney that causes you to vote the way you do.

    Let’s see how that works out.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  67. All but one Senate race has been called for the Rs, and the one outstanding is 60-40 R with 28% counted.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  68. 64. One of the exit polls broke the vote out a nearly perfect 33D/33R/33I split. Guessing rather different than the GOP primary–WI is an open state.

    But the GOP in WI is possessed of men and women of an apparent different cut of cloth than the national average and the loyalty card may well put this safely in Codpiece’s column.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  69. Obama is next. I feel like writing a check to the RNC.

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  70. Althouse points out in her liveblog, that the Dems are doing far worse than they did in their last “send them a message” campaign, the Supreme Court runoff election.

    In that one they carried quite a few counties. Tonight, they got stomped.

    And from the sound of it, the Dems are not done. I can see November from my house.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  71. Why do Democrats lose elections “narrowly“, even though they lose by 8 points? It’s like unemployment statistics that “unexpectedly” decline, but only when there is a Democratic president.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  72. To my mind, it needed to be a win of at least 5 points to be a meaningful national bellwether. I believe Walker had to outperform the mean of the polls immediately leaning up to this.

    And he has!

    Just think how much tighter the result would have been if Obama hadn’t tweeted on Barrett’s behalf?

    Random (fba0b1)

  73. Ugh. Meant to make a funny, but said the exact opposite of what I ought to have said.

    Sigh.

    Random (fba0b1)

  74. Just imagine what the real results would have been without all the ringers bussed in from other states and the other folks who voted by registering today with items such as utility bills.

    Gazzer (781de2)

  75. Quite a link, DRJ.

    Walker “survives recall” narrowly.

    The message: fighting unions jeopardizes your political survival?

    Had Barret won by eight, the cheering on CNN and MSNBC would be deafening. It would be a “crushing blow to anti union policies”.

    Dustin (330eed)

  76. Re: The prospects for magic that would drag Choombaraka from death’s door, and a dumpster in Camden, to re-election from the WSJ:

    “At their policy meeting this month, Fed officials will weigh whether the U.S. economic outlook is deteriorating enough to justify new measures to boost growth, according to interviews and Fed speeches.

    The Fed’s next meeting, June 19 and 20, could be too soon for conclusive decisions.”

    Well they can’t continue Operation Twist–which is working wonders, don’t ya know–cause the Fed has traded all their short term notes for long already.

    PIMCO, the largest domestic dealer of our debt is betting their farm that Bennie will buy more toxic MBS from the world’s banks so they have money to lend to us. If we wanted some. Last time they spent it in the stock market not loans.

    How do you feel about that? Will that make you more likely to vote for Jackass?

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  77. Walker “survives recall” narrowly.

    lol

    Yeah.

    Also a narrow victories? The Battle of Midway and Fox News’ ratings over CNN’s.

    Random (fba0b1)

  78. The MSM is reliably parroting the “9-point lead” Obama had over Romney in the exit polls which predicted this was too close to call.

    So…flip the seven or so points by which Walker won and y’all tell me who will win Wisconsin Electoral College members.

    Then again….maybe we should just let a sleeping Obama lie. He’s good at it. 🙂

    Ed from SFV (68921e)

  79. Dana–

    Unfortunately, California courts have ruled in the past that pension rights are a ratchet. The biggest promises, best benefits, and most favorable rules ever offered during an employee’s working life are guaranteed and can never be reduced for that employee.

    No, it doesn’t SAY that anywhere, but they’ve discovered it in the state constitution’s margins.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  80. There was an initiative attempted to write a “no it doesn’t say that” clause into the constitution, but the ballot summary wording that Kamala Harris (the Communist state AG) stuck on the initiative (“takes pensions away from teachers, police and nurses” [paraphrased]) caused the proponents to withdraw the attempt.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  81. I’m a member of the Teamsters union, and if it was up to me, government employees would NEVER, under any circumstances, be allowed to engage in any kind of union activities.

    Congratulations to Governor Walker, and to the more rational voters in Wisconsin.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  82. Now is the time to abolish the nea, epa and anyone that stands in the way. Thank You, Wisconsin.

    mg (44de53)

  83. Chrissy Matthews did about 45 minutes on everything except the Wisconsin recall results. He spent 15 minutes with UpChucky Schumley and the Unknown Senator From North Carolina on the Equal Pay Act, or some other such thing that was rejected by the Senate today.

    You wouldn’t even know his friends in organized labor had a barn burning today.

    shipwreckedcrew (5dfa92)

  84. I am not familiar with the political situation in Wisconsin.

    Did not the union bosses spearheading this campaign make even a token effort to reach out beyond public employee union members to the larger electorate? Let’ us face it, most of the electorate is agnostic when it comes to “collective bargaining” rights. It is not something that would draw a significant chunk of the larger electorate to the polls.

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  85. Good news: Scott Walker won.

    Bad News: Van Wanggaard in WI Sen. 21 looks to be losing. Meaning the WI State Senate either goes to the Dems for 6 months and they do something with it, or they get it for that short amount of time and the GOP wins it back in November with newly drawn districts.

    Abriel (f45092)

  86. Well, give Obama a little credit: he tweeted his support of Barrett.

    Comment by Dana

    don’t blame 0bama
    leopard can’t change its spots so
    he voted “present”

    Colonel Haiku (6256f3)

  87. dimocrats suffer
    unexpected narrow loss
    hey look! a squirrel!

    Colonel Haiku (6256f3)

  88. red-faced idiot
    you can search far and wide but
    ed shultz is your oaf

    Colonel Haiku (6256f3)

  89. take that, Tom Barrett…

    http://t.co/N1ovurfY

    Colonel Haiku (6256f3)

  90. what also won is the idea that recall elections are expensive and gay

    which we all knew in California after we did one of them and Arnold the useless maid-shtupping Austrian white trash Kennedy gaybot got to fulfill all his democrat fantasies at our expense for 7 years

    happyfeet (fad5fd)

  91. slapped and spanked Tom sez
    “democracy came alive”
    now THAT is some spin

    Colonel Haiku (6256f3)

  92. Treacher’s twitter feed is great.

    JD (c543e6)

  93. Too bad Obama leads Romney in the Fox exit poll taken during the recall.

    Jeremy Wolcott (9de8d9)

  94. Hmm.

    Simon Jester (8a649c)

  95. I like the way Ace pokes fun at the other Wolcott.

    Simon Jester (8a649c)

  96. 4-That is very good news for the “union thugs”; people who have negative feelings about Walker’s policies did not want to recall him simply for that reason. This debate isn’t closed.

    tye (667f0f)

  97. Too bad Obama leads Romney in the Fox exit poll taken during the recall.

    Thanks, Jeremy. That was the same exit poll that originally had this recall as a tossup.

    How did your DNC dry run work out?

    JD (318f81)

  98. . This debate isn’t closed.

    How many times do you plan on losing?

    JD (318f81)

  99. How many times do you plan to lose? (FTFY)
    They haven’t lost yet. Get somebody to read and interpret #4 for you. 😉

    tye (667f0f)

  100. It’s all ego, JD. It’s about what they want to be true. Facts are hurting tem right now.

    Did you see all te “new civility” death threats against Walker this morning on Twitter? Where is Aaron’s judge when we need him?

    Simon Jester (8a649c)

  101. I also liked the Walker “narrowly” won headlines. 7 points was kind of a spanking. Which why the “reality based” people are so angry.

    Simon Jester (8a649c)

  102. Elections have consequences!

    Simon Jester (8a649c)

  103. I wonder if Tucker Carlson goes to be every night feeling like a genius for having given Treacher a national stage.

    MayBee (2f6e35)

  104. Seven points is a spanking when it fits your narrative. Ten years from now when Wisconsin falls to the ranks of other states that have similar disrespect for education the moronic idealogues who comment here won’t acknowledge that this was the reason. Ignorance is ignorance… I mean bliss.

    tye (667f0f)

  105. My, someone is a little cranky. Just keep the death threats to a minimum when you don’t get your way politically. Okay?

    Simon Jester (8a649c)

  106. MayBee, I agree. But then, we are both “moronic ideologues”. Which I think translates to “Walker by 7.”

    Simon Jester (8a649c)

  107. When have I issued a death threat here? Call him a liar, JD.

    tye (667f0f)

  108. “tye” your crocodile tears taste delicious. Was that you crying on tv last night?

    MayBee – Amen

    A Republican winning, again, in a blue State, by nearly 8% is clearly a win for the Dems. Same with losing the Supreme Court seat, and the vast majority of all their other recall nonsense.

    JD (318f81)

  109. He is referring to you and your fellow travelers, “tye”

    CIVILITYY NOW!

    JD (318f81)

  110. Actually it means that you are too far from center to realize that any negative consequence may materialize from your agenda. The sad part is that you are too dense and brainwashed to know this. It is like I’m rationalizing with a teenager.

    tye (667f0f)

  111. A blue state? Wisconsin has a republican governor and GOP controlled state Senate. Are you willfully stupid?

    tye (667f0f)

  112. “tye” you are sooooooo cute when you are mad. Did you stomp your feet while typing that?

    Congrats on the Senate seat. Being in control of the Senate while they are no longer in session was quite the accomplishment. Hopefully that doesn’t hold up after November.

    JD (318f81)

  113. So Cali was a red state when Arnold was Gov?!

    JD (318f81)

  114. Tye, come join my ranks. With your idealogical purity, we can lead legions in striking back at those nasty Rethuglicans.
    onethousandonehundredeleventyone!

    Captain Butthurt (e5e4ad)

  115. Was the state senate controlled by the GOP?

    tye (667f0f)

  116. It’s “robber baron money” according to many of my bewildered democrat friends. Doesn’t seem much point trying to explain.

    All those drums, for nothing. It must hurt.

    sarahW (b0e533)

  117. Tye

    Captain Butthurt (e5e4ad)

  118. D@mn. HTML FAIL!

    Captain Butthurt (e5e4ad)

  119. “61. The unions have let it be known that win or lose the recall they were going to take the war to the streets in WI.

    Going to be be bit treacherous without pants.

    Comment by gary gulrud — 6/5/2012 @ 8:58 pm”

    Thread winner.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  120. I loved Tye’s comment at #112. I may be a “moronic ideologue,” but I am aware of extreme irony. That first sentence is right up there with “I work here is done.”

    Simon Jester (8a649c)

  121. It’s remarkable what a little pushback can do;

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/05/2833779/book-ag-holder-considered-quitting.html

    narciso (494474)

  122. For an outfit that pretends to use it as a baseword in their name, Democrats sure don’t like Democracy much …

    SPQR (26be8b)

  123. ‘Civility’ an interesting concept;

    narciso (494474)

  124. Funny about CNN coverage:

    “I can’t have been the only who noticed Wolf Blitzer talking, as the Wisconsin polls closed, about how shockingly ‘head-to-head’ the race had turned out even as early returns showed Scott Walker’s lead over Tom Barrett grow ever larger. Even as the words ‘fifty-fifty’ were uttered, the actual results were more like 53-46, and then 57-42, and suddenly CNN’s screen was filled with Union Jacks and coverage of the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee.”

    By J.D. Tuccille of Reason.com via Instapundit.

    AZ Bob (1c9631)

  125. ==All those drums, for nothing. It must hurt.==

    SarahW, I think in fact the drums played quite a large role in the Dems/unions defeat yesterday. While the bongo and bucket beaters, student protesters and and “teachers” were trashing the capitol building last year, as they were simultaneously splitting eardrums and chanting “this is what democracy looks like”, I think it actually brought clarity to a lot of Wisconsinites. It made them realize that they probably did not want to turn over their beloved state to these crazies.

    elissa (4b9a12)

  126. Well, it seems obvious that the early “head-to-head” stuff was cover, place-holding boilerplate until the numbers could be evaluated. Once they realized they didn’t have enough votes stashed in the trunk of cars to cover the spread, their story began to change.

    If it was close, they could still cheat.

    Pious Agnostic (7c3d5b)

  127. Yes indeed. Very bad optics. Or otics.

    sarahW (b0e533)

  128. _______________________________________________

    Ten years from now when Wisconsin falls to the ranks of other states that have similar disrespect for education

    Are you referring to public schools?! If so, are you the type who nonsensically believes that our youth aren’t getting a better education because we — the taxpayer — aren’t willing to lavish more money on the school system? That by not playing into the hands of government-employee unions and their biggest sycophants (mainly politicians from the Democrat Party), various voters are inadvertently upsetting the apple cart and being big selfish meanies. After all, think of the kids! It’s for the kids!!

    Unfortunately, a lot of the populace — regardless of ideology or party affiliation — does become soft-hearted and full of do-gooderness when envisioning children and the need to educate them.

    I post the following in their honor:

    Claremont.org:

    By almost any standard, Missouri v. Jenkins, the Kansas City, Missouri, school desegregation case, was extraordinary. Between 1985 and 2003 federal judges ordered more than $2 billion in new spending by the school district to encourage desegregation. Not only did they double property taxes to pay this huge bill, but they imposed an income tax surcharge on everyone who lived or worked in the city.

    The court order turned every high school and middle school (as well as half the elementary schools) into “magnet schools,” each with a distinctive theme — including not merely science, performing arts, and computer studies, but also classical Greek, Asian studies, agribusiness, and environmental studies. The newly constructed classical Greek high school housed an Olympic-sized pool with an underwater observation room, an indoor track, a gymnastic center, and racquetball courts. The former coach of the Soviet Olympic fencing team was hired to teach inner-city students how to thrust and parry.

    The school system spent almost a million dollars a year to recruit white kids from the suburbs, and even hired door-to-door taxi service for them. By 1995 Kansas City was spending over $10,000 per student, more than any comparable school system in the country.

    Despite this massive effort, litigation failed either to improve the quality of education or to reduce racial isolation. Test scores continued to drop, and the percentage of minority students continued to rise. Eventually, black parents—who had long opposed the court’s heavy emphasis on “magnet schools” designed to draw whites into the school system—insisted upon a return to neighborhood schools.

    Mark (aa1ab7)

  129. #124, actually “It is like I’m rationalizing with a teenager” stands well on its own.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  130. Mark,

    The relevant number isn’t spending/student it’s the ratio of classroom teachers to all education employees. At private schools, this ration is upwards of 80%. At public schools this number has been declining for decades and is now WELL under 50%. Money sent in is spent long before it gets to the teachers.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  131. ratio, not ration, of course.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  132. It’s a good thing the Wisconsin recall results don’t have any implications for the November elections.

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  133. Eventually, black parents—who had long opposed the court’s heavy emphasis on “magnet schools” designed to draw whites into the school system—insisted upon a return to neighborhood schools.

    Goes to show that progressives are out of touch with reality.

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  134. Unfortunately, California courts have ruled in tst promises, best benefits, and most favorable rules ever offered during an employee’s working life are guaranteed and can never be reduced for that employee.

    No, it doesn’t SAY that anywhere, but they’ve discovered it in the state constitution’s margins.he past that pension rights are a ratchet.

    Any indication that that was the basis, and not simply a breach of contract issue?

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  135. __________________________________________

    At public schools this number has been declining for decades and is now WELL under 50%.

    And that’s a paradigm for the public sector in general, and something that need to be kept in mind by the voters. Particularly the ones aboard the gravy train (receiving various forms of public assistance, food stamps, SSI, etc) who get spooked at the image of it being derailed by a bureaucracy that no longer is coddled by certain politicians, most of them identified with the right, not the left.

    I recall that one district in New York state that about two years ago went from being mainly Republican to Democrat because the liberal candidate raised the specter of the heartless, mean ol’ Republicans shutting down the benefits of things like Social Security. That plays into the hands of those who end up getting the most out of such ploys: Government employees (including pencil-pushing administrators in public-school systems) and their unions.

    Mark (aa1ab7)

  136. If this recall was appropriate, given the Guv did exactly as he promised and won by a greater margin than in 2010 then let us, by any means, win or lose,

    try BHO for treason with BP Gulf spill, for EPA directed, Coast Guard enforced intervention of clean up efforts, DOI contempt and ignorance of Federal Court orders; for Fast and Furious and Gunwalker; for Green Shoots money laundering kicked back to the DNC; for RICO violations involving DOJ and IRS intimidation and harassment of citizens without cause; for unauthorized creation of Consumer Protection department; for unlawful appointments to the NLRB, for the abrogation of Czech/Polish missle treaty and unilateral disarmament w/offering defense secrets,…

    I’d prefer that he hang, but will tolerate nothing less than retraction of pensions and privileges and time in Leavenworth.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  137. 138. Back when I entered grade school during the Eisenhower admin, teachers to administrators ratio was 2:1.

    Today it is 1:1.

    States are currently funding Local education with income tax receipts, mandated by Feds, as “property tax relief”, cutting programs and teachers while adding administrators.

    Abolishing the Dept. of Education is essential.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  138. Fish boil at gary’s Friday night!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  139. 113. “Are you willfully stupid?”

    Pot, meet kettle.

    Yes, gone are the days of Bob LaFollete when WI was the most progressive state in the Union.

    WI, has since 2000, rested on tenterhooks, virtually evenly divided between Blue and Red. Thus Democrats stealing 4300 votes tipped balance to Gore and Kerry.

    Well, looks like those days are gone now too.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  140. Ninth Circuit Denies Rehearing En Banc in California Same-Sex Marriage Case

    The immediate effect is that the district court in Hawaii hearing challenges to state marriage laws may now schedule initial briefing, and of course the litigants in that case must take Perry into consideration.

    Judge O’Scannlain’s dissent was short. He did have a lengthier dissent in Diaz v. Brewer,
    No. 10-16797 (9th Cir. Apr. 3, 2012) (O’ Scannlain, J., dissenting from denial of rehearing en banc)

    Of course, this sets us one step closer to a showdown between Ted Olson and Paul Clement in the Supreme Court.

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  141. Ten years from now when Wisconsin falls to the ranks of other states that have similar disrespect for education the moronic idealogues who comment here won’t acknowledge that this was the reason.

    How can making govt. employees pay for a part of their benefits and not forcing them to join a union cause a state to have “disrespect for education”?

    I wonder if Tye is a current or former PS teacher.

    Gerald A (cc0aaa)

  142. …CNN’s screen was filled with Union Jacks and coverage of the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee.”

    I was hoping to see CNN run a segment with Richard Quest hopped up on meth with a rope around his neck and genital narrating the event.

    ∅ (721840)

  143. 114-What the hell are you talking about?

    tye (667f0f)

  144. I apologize, “tye”. I assumed you had some basic knowledge of what happened in WI. My bad. You are dummerer than I gave you credit for.

    JD (318f81)

  145. 144-Did you have aluminum foil wrapped around your head when you typed that?

    tye (667f0f)

  146. tye, he’s referring to the WI State Senate not being back in session until January.

    Since the Legislature is not scheduled to be in session again until January, the Democratic control of the Senate will unlikely have much consequence in the months to come.—The Cap Times

    ∅ (721840)

  147. So your claim is that the state senate of Wisconsin doesn’t have a GOP majority because they are not currently in session? Scat. The adults* are talking.

    *-I mean, the adult is talking.

    tye (667f0f)

  148. Congrats on winning the most meaningless Senate seat in the recall last night, the most meaningless recall EVAH.

    JD (318f81)

  149. “so your claim is ….”

    Show of hands as to who knew what followed from “tye” was going to be mendoucheous?

    What other names have you used to comment here, “tye” ?

    JD (318f81)

  150. Honestly I am trying to figure out what you’re talking about. What exactly is your claim, kiddo?

    tye (667f0f)

  151. I am mocking you.

    JD (318f81)

  152. That is not a claim. So your original statement that Wisconsin is a blue state is not true. That makes you a liar. Or mandydouchtery…. or whatever adolescent slight you trademarked.

    tye (667f0f)

  153. 152. My beloved daddy, retired at 62 in WI, after 39 years in a Waukesha County school system, Master’s degree, top year’s salary 70 some K.

    He turns 84 this summer and going strong.

    The ‘Trouble’ in 2008 knocked $3000 off his yearly pension and Medicaid has been used to undercut seniors who can pay their way but on the whole a pretty good run on the unsustainable ‘Great Society’.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  154. tye, the state senate seat that the democrats won doesn’t matter because the senate session has adjourned and is not scheduled to meet until January 2013. There’s another election in November for the state senate. Does that help?

    ∅ (721840)

  155. Wisconsin has historically been a blue state. Only a clown would argue otherwise. Hence, you doing so.

    Leaving the silly headline aside, maybe this can help you
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/06/wisconsin-recall-election-john-lehman_n_1572938.html

    JD (318f81)

  156. You didn’t say historically. Moving the goal posts a smidge are we?

    tye (667f0f)

  157. “So your original statement that Wisconsin is a blue state is not true.”

    tydebowl – When was the last time Wisconsin voted for a Republican presidential candidate?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  158. “Actually it means that you are too far from center to realize that any negative consequence may materialize from your agenda.”

    I know what the positive consequences are: Every blow struck against the ever-growing totalitarian nanny-state means more freedom for me, and more dough in my pocket (and less dough in the pockets of parasitic government employees, which is a little side benfit).

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  159. Wisconsin had a GOP governor and state senate. Looks red to me.

    tye (667f0f)

  160. “Looks red to me.”

    Well, Madison and Milwaukee look red. The rest of the state is mainly anti-communist.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  161. It appears that “tye’s” historical view of WI goes as far back as yesterday.

    JD (318f81)

  162. “tye” – what other names have you used in commenting here?

    JD (318f81)

  163. 166-Yeah I get that that is the party line and all… but you can’t actually believe that. “Freedom”… please.

    tye (667f0f)

  164. http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/topics/shorthistory/progressive.asp

    Robert La Follette thinks you are a clown, “tye”

    JD (318f81)

  165. Once again you’re using the word historical. Since this is your home field, so to speak, you get to change your argument?

    tye (667f0f)

  166. Freedom is a punchline to people like “tye”

    JD (318f81)

  167. I think Tye just comes here to lighten things up a little and make people laugh–you know like clowns and magicians do at birthday or retirement parties. I know I’m smiling.

    elissa (4b9a12)

  168. WI last voted for a Team R presidential candidate, Reagan, in 1984. Clearly a Republican stronghold.

    JD (318f81)

  169. It is definitely a punch line when people like you use it.

    tye (667f0f)

  170. Elissa – Clowns are not funny. They are scary, and being a clown is a crystal-clear indicator of one’s propensity to become a child molestor and/or a serial killer.

    JD (318f81)

  171. “tye” never did answer what other names he/she/it has used to comment here.

    Walker spanking the Dems sure has “tye” butthurt.

    JD (318f81)

  172. True enough, elissa. But the funny part is how completely unaware “tye” is of his own foolishness. After supporting a progressive agenda, which resulted in a serious spanking of progressives in Wisconsin, he seriously wants to accuse others of being (wait for it) too partisan?

    Performance art, or a lack of self-awareness. But for sure, a lack of a sense of humor.

    I particularly enjoy all the personal insults from this character. It really and truly helps him win more hearts and minds. Of course, it’s bad to insult people if you are on the Right. I get. The usual flexible yardstick.

    No, just another angry little troll.

    Also note that JD has asked several times about which other names “tye” has used on this blog. Just “tye”? Or is he one of the Usual Suspects? Not responding is, of course, a type of answer.

    But he surely is angry. And that is funny, in a way.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  173. 167. WI Dems had the misfortune of running out the clock at the 2010 buzzer with two term governor Jim Doyle, former AG, asshat, who’s last ‘achievement’ was to blow $250 Million for the freaking Stimulus match on a Spanish bullet train for the Milwaukee to Madison 74 mile trip.

    Can’t even reach top speed on the run.

    That with Bucyrus Erie, Allis Chalmers, AO Smith, etc., big iron union shops locked out of competition. Then the Dems killed mining in Northern WI and corn-holed their union workers twice.

    This is the measure of Democrats losing their core for the enviornmentalist death worshippers.

    I’m all for continuing the drones in 2013 with enviroterrorists targeted for assassination.

    If we lose an office building or two, so much the better.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  174. 176- there hasn’t been a GOP candidate worth voting for since 1984

    tye (667f0f)

  175. And the interesting part, as always, is why these types keep coming back, again and again, like a Weeble.

    Do they think they can change minds? If so, insulting is not a way to do that.

    Or is it the deep seated name to fight and call people names…while being safe the entire time. Sort of like how people shriek insults at other drivers from inside their cars, but are quite polite when face to face.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  176. Anyone wonder what would be an acceptable Republican in “tye’s” world?

    JD (318f81)

  177. Don’t even start with him, JD. He isn’t even serious now…just tit for tat responses.

    I think Wisconsin really shook him up. That’s what Hopenchange does for a leftist.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  178. 183. They’re our assigned ‘minders’. Prolly means you’re doing Ok, not every skinhead blog ‘merits’ them.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  179. ‘“Freedom”… please.’

    Yeah, I know the idea is essentially alien to lefties.

    Lefties don’t care about freedom (unless it’s the freedom to kill their unborn, unwanted offspring or the freedom to lay around all day smoking dope and collecting welfare). They care about getting “free” stuff from the government.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  180. Not shook up. I was just trying to bring sanity to the typical orgy of lies. Looks like too many pants are off to stop this train.

    tye (667f0f)

  181. Doubling down on the freefom meme… classic rethug.

    tye (667f0f)

  182. Freedom*

    tye (667f0f)

  183. What you did was sanity?

    JD (318f81)

  184. 77. Continuing with Obymal’s prospects for recovery:

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/feds-beige-book-out

    So the market is up big today, rebounding from a similar loss and then the Fed dashes speculator’s hopes for QE.

    “Auto manufacturing strong”? GM has 700K in “sales” sitting on dealers lots. You lie, Ben.

    But just why would Ben print with the economy going great guns? He won’t, he just told you.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  185. 188. “Orgy of lies”.

    Ace had it otherwise, “Bath salts and pudding”.

    Slick can kill Obie single-handed in another week.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  186. Speaking of adults:

    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/06/merkel-bends-equity-markets-and.html

    The EFSF has like 50 Billion euros, say the Germans(Peter Lorre nasality please) loan the EFSF another 40 which will take Merkel down in upcoming elections, one bank alone, Bankia needs 30 Billion.

    The bond vigilantes took the brilliant news and reduced their demands on Spanish bonds 3 basis points.

    Epic FAIL.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  187. Re: freedom

    Where I live there’s almost no government “services” and almost no government interference, and that’s the way I want to keep it.

    There’s no government provided roads, street lights, water, sewers or a host of other “services” that I don’t want, and I don’t need. There also isn’t a host of government officials trying to tell me what I can and can’t do.

    I don’t want the government to take care of all my needs (especially since they have a tendency to try and define what my needs are against my will). I just want to be left alone.

    So, any time I see the nanny state getting a smackdown…I’m all for it.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  188. 195. I had a darling little colonial, 3Bed, 1.25Bath, sunroom, 1.5 car detached, <1/8 acre, Bay View neighborhood of Milwaukee the year Walker was elected County Exec.

    Taxes the year following $4000, included street sweepers and flowers lining boulevards, water/sewage extra.

    Now 5 bed, 3 bath, own water and septic, sitting on rear deck among cedars no sign of fellow man except for light towers of BB field nearly 2 miles off.

    Juvenile robins attacking their reflection in the window far louder than diesel superchargers in the distance.

    Taxes $1600. We get enough rain to keep the street clear, pick up any wind blown litter myself.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  189. So, “tye”:

    1. Have you ever said that Republicans were insulting and childish in their dealing with opponents?
    2. If you say “yes” (and I believe that you have have written that in the past), how do you justify you own quite childish tantrums today?
    3. Most importantly: is JD right? Have you commented here under different names? If so, why?

    Let’s see if you can reply to these three questions without insult. My guess is that you won’t be able to do so.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  190. In what pretend village do you live Mr. Surls?

    tye (667f0f)

  191. I feel sorry for folks who live in the midst of the nanny state.

    You have to pay for police services, and yet you still have to lock your doors, because of all the crime.

    I don’t have cops roaming around where I live, and I NEVER even bother locking my doors. Shoot, I wouldn’t even bother shutting my doors, if it wasn’t for the raccoons raiding my pantry.

    The little rascals.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  192. Oh! You live in the little house on the prarie! Watch out for cholera!

    tye (a04f80)

  193. Yup. Called it.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  194. tye, when you get your reading skills above 8th grade, and your writing skills above 7th, then come back and talk to us.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  195. Morrissey on the wages for Big Labor:

    “the Wisconsin Senate will be out of session until 2013. In November, 16 of the 33 seats will be up for grabs, and thanks to the redistricting that will be in place for the first time in that election, Republicans are supposed to pick up at least two seats. The unions spent millions of dollars and over a year’s worth of effort to get a temporary one-seat majority in a chamber that will never meet in session. And that’s assuming that their lone win from last night holds up in a recount.”

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  196. 199. Just 2 nights ago I found a raccoon stretching full length to the peanut feeder with a break-away platter.

    Turkey, pheasant, coyote, painted turtles, tree frogs, swallow-tailed butterflys, on and on, all pass thru the yard during the day. Deer, raccoon night only.

    Had a bald eagle take a black squirrel in one of our lindens forty feet from my nose.

    All the diseases are spread by contact with people, not animals, our maine coons have their rabies and distemper shots regularly.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  197. “In what pretend village do you live Mr. Surls?”

    Oh, it’s quite real.

    Wikipedia even has an article about my little village…

    “Canyon (formerly, Sequoya) is an unincorporated community in Contra Costa County, California situated between Oakland and Moraga in the San Francisco Bay Area. The community is named for its location in the upper canyon of San Leandro Creek along the eastern slope of the Berkeley Hills. It lies at an elevation of 1142 feet (348 m).”

    “The community is mainly traversed by Pinehurst Road and Canyon Road. The homes of the community are nestled amongst the steep, narrow private roads and footpaths that extend from the redwood groves and ferns along the creek, through the mixed live oak, bay, and madrone forests on the steep hillsides, up to the chaparral and knobcone pines that grow along the ridge…”

    “…In the late 1960s Canyon became a center of political and social protest and creative alternative lifestyles. Canyon Cinema of San Francisco was founded by neighbors here in the 1960s. Today’s residents still work together to maintain their own roads and water systems, and Canyon Community Association volunteers provide mediation services, emergency planning, and interface with county and state agencies. Much of the land beyond the community is owned by the East Bay Municipal Utility District (EBMUD).”–wikipedia

    In truth, most of the “interface” has really about keeping government agencies (like EBMUD), often in cahoots with real estate developers, from running us off our land, which they’ve been trying to do, off and on, for decades. Yet, another blessing of your precious nanny state, that I could pretty much live without. I’m basically paying taxes for “services” I never recieve (and don’t want), and part of that tax money is then used to try and force me off my own land.

    And, that’s why I applaud Governor Walker’s efforts in Wisconsin. Anyone who tries to rein in the ever growing power of the nanny state is my friend.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  198. “Turkey, pheasant, coyote, painted turtles, tree frogs, swallow-tailed butterflys, on and on, all pass thru the yard during the day. Deer, raccoon night only.”

    Same here, sans the turtles and frogs. Don’t see too many turtles or frogs up here on the ridge. Last night I saw a newborn fawn, trying to get across the road as I was driving back from my ex-wife’s house. He was a cute little bugger. Still had his spots, and I could have picked him up with one hand. I see deer pretty much every day, and plenty during the daylight hours.

    A few seconds after I finally got around him (he was a little confused by the whole headlights thing), a fox shot by me, as I was getting out of my car.

    The biggest problem with wildlife in my neck of the woods, is not tripping over all the critters and varmints that are roaming around.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  199. Apparently I live just south of Dave in Castro Valley, CA. Perhaps we’ll meet at the gun club sometime.

    luagha (5cbe06)

  200. Anarchists! Wack jobs.

    tye (e5fa12)

  201. “tye” sure is butthurt today. I guess a year of union and Dem thuggery, tens of millions of dollars and thousands upon thousands of leftist man-hours went all for naught.

    JD (318f81)

  202. teh Dem thuggery
    and beclowning buggery
    left Thai a dull boy

    Colonel Haiku (61c904)

  203. The biggest problem with wildlife in my neck of the woods, is not tripping over all the critters and varmints that are roaming around.

    Comment by Dave Surls

    who knew that dave surls
    lived in Tenderloin District?!?!
    wild and wooly surls!

    Colonel Haiku (61c904)

  204. 208. I love it when Liberals call me whacked. Time to rustle up some possum belly, and play the banjo after grub.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  205. The biggest problem with wildlife in my neck of the woods, is not tripping over all the critters and varmints running over all of the damn critters, varmints, and especially deer that are roaming around and screwing up my car again.

    Comment by Dave Surls — 6/6/2012 @ 3:44 pm

    FIFY

    About two months ago a humongous buck that weighed about 350 pounds ran over my ass and tore the hell out of my subcompact. The bastid nearly knocked me out when he hit me on the drivers side, and it looked like a deer had suicide bombed the interior of my car due to the amount of fur inside. AND GET THIS, he got up and ran off laughing at my ass.

    We have a huge problem with the deer population here in Jawjuh.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  206. I am not a leftist. I am just not a crazy anarchist.

    tye (e5fa12)

  207. Leftists consider themselves centrists. My bad.

    JD (c543e6)

  208. Oh, I’m sure “tye” is another “concerned conservative Christian.” Grazing on the astroturf.

    Notice how he won’t answer your question, JD? Hmm.

    Simon Jester (d3420a)

  209. “Apparently I live just south of Dave in Castro Valley, CA. Perhaps we’ll meet at the gun club sometime.”

    Hey, neighbor.

    Just keep going up Redwood Road coming out of Castro Valley, past the golf course and Chabot Gun Club, hang a right on Pinehurst Road and you’ll get to my place…eventually.

    It’s a beautiful drive, btw. I used to drive that road to get to work, when I worked down in Niles Canyon.

    Last time we went out to the gun club (we were going to shoot trap or something), there was a big ol’ grass fire, and we couldn’t get in. So, we just went home and drank beer…which was o.k.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  210. We only have regular squirrels in my neighborhood. They don’t get taken, exactly, but are left as gifts for me from time to time.

    I think my house might somehow be marked down in legend in Raccoon lore because they never give up on the pet door, now sealed shut. I thought I had better because I caught one raising the panel insert like a window sash. I got one in the attic last year and I thought maybe it was a pony. He was not very discreet. He ended up in the havahart like the one before him and had a last meal of smoked salmon and marshmallows.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  211. “About two months ago a humongous buck that weighed about 350 pounds ran over my ass and tore the hell out of my subcompact.”

    Yeah, I’ve bagged a couple myself that way. Not that big though.

    I also had one hit my driver’s side door, going full tilt. Snapped his neck clean in two. Lucky for me, he hit the door and not the window…otherwise we wouldn’t be having this chat.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  212. “…here in Jawjuh.”

    That’s where the Surls clan hails from. I have a ton of kinfolk in that part of the world.

    Might fly back this fall to see one of my nieces get married. Hopefully, the plane won’t smack into a deer on landing.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  213. It’s a beautiful drive, btw. I used to drive that road to get to work, when I worked down in Niles Canyon.

    Comment by Dave Surls

    Dave… what ever happened to that creek that used to run down the canyon (working from memory here)… Niles Creek? dunno, but remember they used to plant trout in it when water ran before Summer. Used to run down to the 680…

    Colonel Haiku (61c904)

  214. I’m still waiting for Tye to explain how making govt. employees pay for a part of their benefits and not forcing them to join a union cause a state to have “disrespect for education” ten years from now…or any other time. No answer yet…

    Gerald A (cc0aaa)

  215. “Dave… what ever happened to that creek that used to run down the canyon…”

    It’s still there. Last time I checked anyway. That’s Alameda Creek.

    I tried fishing it once, low down…and never got a strike. Used to have Steelhead and Coho at one time, but apparently that stopped when they put up the dams.

    Supposedly, there’s rainbows in the upper watershed, but I’ve never tried fishing it.

    The creek that goes by my place is PACKED with rainbows. It’s a little bitty stream (you can step across it in a lot of places), but, I’ve see 14″, 16″ rainbows swimming around in it.

    Too bad you’re not allowed to fish in that stream, or in the reservoir it flows into. You could limit out on rainbows in about five minutes.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  216. That’s it… Alameda Creek. I haven’t driven through the canyon in quite a while, only point of reference is that I don’t see water (or even the creek bed?) when I drive down 680.

    Gotta get my license and new tackle! I say every year.

    Colonel Haiku (61c904)

  217. “I don’t see water (or even the creek bed?) when I drive down 680.”

    It’s a good sized stream down in Niles Canyon, but it splits up into a bunch of smaller tributaries in Sunol, right before they all cross 680. One of the tributaries runs right along 680 all the way up into Dublin.

    Don’t know if you can see any water from the freeway or not. I never really thought about looking, which is probably a good thing, if you want to stay on the freeway and not get in a wreck.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  218. Hopefully, the plane won’t smack into a deer on landing.

    Comment by Dave Surls — 6/6/2012 @ 6:04 pm

    A plane at Hartsfield in Atlanta hit one landing last fall.

    peedoffamerican (ee1de0)

  219. We have a free-standing carriage house on our property. Yesterday morning my wife takes a call from our tenant, “Do you know we have a wild turkey in the yard…?” Wife and daughter went out to see it, called a few neighbors, and followed it strolling around the neighborhood for awhile. Thrills in the big city.

    Now, wild turkeys per se are not much of a thrill for me, as I’ve seen flocks of them by my folks’ house in Ohio, but we do live within Philadelphia proper, and while our area has a lot of old single houses and trees, etc. around, we are at least 1/2+ mile from the nearest area that is contiguous with a larger wooded park. Plenty of squirrels, way too many raccoons, also opossums, woodchuck, red fox, hawks, and owls sighted.

    My daughter is a fan of America’s Funniest Home Videos and we saw video of a raccoon coming in through a pet door that was spooked by lights and the photographer, but not content to simply back out of the door flap, it grabbed the door mat on the inside of the door and pulled it out as well.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  220. Jd- you are too far to the right to see the center.
    gerald- I didn’t realize that I was not allowed to take a break from posting.

    Let’s see what happens to salary, benefits, and general working conditions for teachera kn Wisconsin … your (not asked in good faith) question will be answered through your own observations…. those are my favorite!

    tye (454855)

  221. tye-
    The people of Wisconsin have already seen this, that’s why they’ve kept Walker in.
    Previously union work rules determined personnel decisions, and the Wisconsin Teacher of the Year was let go because of budget concerns. The teachers unions are against hiring based on merit, or considering contract renegotiations instead of firing recent hires. The majority of people who have been given the choice of belonging to the unions or not have chosen not too.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  222. Powerline has Hitler’s response up, and Riehl Barney Franks’.

    Riehl points out Big Labor owns Omamba and now WI heartbreak. The Donks are not happy, e.g., Clinton, Soros et al.

    Taste testers the biggest gainers.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  223. Being in favor of liberty makes me too far tonth right. Being in favor of less government control, too far right. Being in favor of less govt spending, too far right. Being in favor of balanced budgets, too far right. Being in favor of actually paying attention to our founding principles, and federalism, too far right.

    JD (c543e6)

  224. Md- did you just regurgitate a few rethug talkibg points?

    tye (454855)

  225. Talking*

    tye (454855)

  226. I hate to take a crap all over your Nathan Hale moment but you’re really stupid jd.

    tye (454855)

  227. Did “tye” ever tell us all the different names he has used to comment here? Didn’t think so. Hint, it is a LOT.

    For everyone’s amusement, I will ask “tye” what is stupid about supporting the Constitution, federalism, liberty, balanced budgets, etc ….

    JD (318f81)

  228. OMG, Tye. Did you really, truly criticize someone else for commenting “not in good faith”?

    You are a veritable poster child for trolldom, dude. Your tantrum yesterday was an epic demonstration of someone, um, not posting in good faith.

    Go for a walk or something. Come back when you can comment without insulting others or making things up in anger.

    Simon Jester (bf5eab)

  229. What other names has this person used, do you think, JD?

    Simon Jester (bf5eab)

  230. I didn’t say those things are stupid which essentially proves what I actually did say.

    tye (454855)

  231. “tye’s” butthurt tantrum is sooooooooooooooo cute.

    JD (318f81)

  232. ==“Do you know we have a wild turkey in the yard…?” ==

    MDin Philly– Well, in contrast we recently had a turkey vulture that landed in the driveway with its prey and was messily chowing down on a newly dead somethingorother. But then, after all this is Chicago.

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  233. tye, your comments remain juvenile. Try to up your game.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  234. turkey vultures aren’t too much to get interested in either, unless it is dragging something along- ugh, gross, nasty, sorry you had to have that experience. But, as you say, living in Chicago you’ve had worse.

    Md- did you just regurgitate a few rethug talkibg points?
    Comment by tye — 6/7/2012 @ 6:18 am

    Actually tye, I went to hs, college, and med school in Wisconsin and my wife has plenty of family there, so I’ve actually paid attention.
    You have given me an opportunity to practice restraint and patience this am, which, unfortunately, I still do need practice at.

    Comment by JD — 6/7/2012 @ 6:00 am
    Using your brain to make observations and true cause and effect linkages puts you to the right. How far is too far is a matter I will not address.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  235. I don’t think tye at all understands the essential difference between trade unions and public sector unions. I don’t think tye understands that many public sector union “members” are Republicans and also Democrats who are not in sync with teh union leadership’s whims and thuggery. I don’t think tye can admit that when Walker and the WI legislature freed grateful public union members from their yoke of previously forced/mandatory paying of dues, that over half of them did quit, and now enjoy the extra money in their own family budget. I think tye wants to sweep it under the rug that since public union members can voluntarily pay their dues and are encouraged to do so by the union the only conclusion one can reasonably draw is that half of them do not feel the union represented their needs, used previous dues money wisely, or made good decisions on behalf of the membership. So tye will never admit that many union members voted for Walker and that is one of many reasons he won the recall election so handily.

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  236. FWIW, there has been discussion about whether to bother asking for a recount or not for the one state senator that lost. In one way it makes little difference as the state legislature will not have any working days until next Jan, after the next election, but it’s unclear to me whether the seat will be among those up for reelection or not.
    The Dem opponent won by only 800 votes, there are funny disparities between how the gov voting and state sen voting went in the district, and that district/county was very slow in doing the count compared to every other district and race in the state. It is pretty far south east, easily driven to from Chicago, or flown to by turkey vulture. There are reports of voter fraud, but obviously unclear how much is valid unless a real investigation is made. Althouse has stuff about it (plus about hawks in Madison).

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  237. _______________________________________________

    I don’t have cops roaming around where I live, and I NEVER even bother locking my doors.
    Comment by Dave Surls

    Dave, that could be a major reason you had your own particular angle on the story of Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman.

    In my case, I’ve lived and experienced neighborhoods (and schools) that went through demographic transitions—and the sociological changes and problems that ensued. So my eyes have been forced wide open. Prior to that, or when I still was in my youth, I do recall being rather idealistic and naive about such things, or hoping that the passage of time would make certain negative aspects of our society evolve. Regrettably, they haven’t, and in some ways have grown coarser and rowdier.

    Mark (9aa697)

  238. Seven points is a spanking when it fits your narrative. Ten years from now when Wisconsin falls to the ranks of other states that have similar disrespect for education the moronic idealogues who comment here won’t acknowledge that this was the reason. Ignorance is ignorance… I mean bliss.

    What does that even mean? What “disrespect for education”? And what “other states” have what “ranks” to which you predict Wisconsin might “fall”? I can’t make head or tail of this. On Wikipedia this would rate a {{who}}.

    Milhouse (312124)

  239. MDinPhilly and anyone else who is still following the recall–head over to Althouse and read her new post “My post-recall question..” It’s a hum dinger.

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  240. isn’t thai awesome?
    he knows pony is in there!
    and he’ll keep digging

    Colonel Haiku (df3dff)

  241. the intra party
    sabotage tastes like whipped cream
    in state fair cream puff

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  242. Making employees pay a portion of their retirement and healthcare will destroy education in 10 years. Giving the same employees a choice as to whether or not to join a union will do the same, only faster.

    JD (c543e6)

  243. Breaking a union so that you can cut dalaries in half certainly will. That chart that I linked to earlier coorelates nicely with the states that have weak salary packages for teachers.

    tye (454855)

  244. Nobody broke a union, and nobody got their salary cut in half. “tye” is butthurt.

    JD (c543e6)

  245. Just wait jd.

    tye (454855)

  246. ==Just wait jd.==

    Oh, now I see Debbie Downer’s underpants.

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  247. And you complain about my level of discourse?

    tye (454855)

  248. “In my case, I’ve lived and experienced neighborhoods (and schools) that went through demographic transitions—and the sociological changes and problems that ensued. So my eyes have been forced wide open.”

    FWIW, I grew up on the streets and lived in the absolute worst parts of the ghetto.

    “I do recall being rather idealistic and naive about such things, or hoping that the passage of time would make certain negative aspects of our society evolve. Regrettably, they haven’t, and in some ways have grown coarser and rowdier.”

    As far as crime and violence goes, things were worse when I lived in Oakland, then they are now. At least nationwide (the murder rate is about half what it used to be when I lived in the city), Oakland hasn’t changed too much.

    “Crime in Oakland began to escalate during the late 1960s, and by the end of the 1970s Oakland’s per capita murder rate had risen to twice that of San Francisco or New York City…”–Wiki

    That’s what I used to live in.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  249. Check back in 10 years and show us one teachers union that has had their dalaries cut in half. Please.

    Elissa – isn’t the conflation of voluntarily opting out with busting a union kinda cute?

    JD (c543e6)

  250. tye, your claims about teacher salaries and educational achievement were debunked years ago. But then we are getting used to such fraudulent claims from you.

    SPQR (7789d2)

  251. 259-by a national review study?

    tye (454855)

  252. You really are utterly ignorant, tye. The National Review does not conduct nor publish studies. The issue has been studied for decades. There is no correlation between teacher salary and educational outcomes. Nor to per student expenditure either.

    SPQR (7789d2)

  253. I didn’t realize that I was not allowed to take a break from posting.
    Comment by tye — 6/7/2012 @ 4:53 am

    — No, no! By all means, take as much time as you want.

    Don’t worry, we’ll call you back when we need you . . .

    Icy (521935)

  254. Are you sure, icy? It seems like my breaks have caused a lot of consternation.

    tye (454855)

  255. Toni Lardinois, executive director of the Green Bay Education Association, for saying that “the governor’s reforms to education were not all gloom and doom as union protesters at the state Capitol a year ago were predicting.” The school district in Green Bay states the governor’s changes “resulted in no teacher or program cuts for the coming year.”

    JD (c543e6)

  256. Spqr. It is you who are ignorant. You have a viewpoint and gather data to support that view. You have no interest in objectivity.

    tye (454855)

  257. Tye–to JD’s point, when individual teachers choose to opt out of the union is she or he “union busting” in your mind? Is that what you accuse them of? Or when a duly elected state government simply allows voluntary member participation rather than enabling strictly forced union funding participation does it become “union busting” as far as you are concerned?

    Because unless I’m misreading your earlier comments and links, an “I know better than you do what’s good for you and how you should be spending your hard earned dough” message to the nation’s teachers is coming through pretty clearly, and I don’t like the sound of that one bit.

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  258. Strawman alert.

    tye (454855)

  259. “tye” did you ever admit the number of different names you have used to comment here? Didn’t think so.

    JD (c543e6)

  260. Tye, OK then. Let’s make it even more simple for you to answer. On a clean screen–What is “union busting”?

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  261. It appears that tye’s participation here is rather limited when he is asked a direct, specific question that requires original thought. Tye seems to be more comfortable “contributung” when he can copy non-responsive points and comments and links from somewhere else. That’s OK tye. You can stand down. Class is dismissed for today.

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  262. Comment by SPQR — 6/7/2012 @ 11:57 am

    And the link between class size, and student performance, seems to be quite tenuous also.

    AD-RtR/OS! (2bb434)

  263. tye, you really don’t understand any part of the issue about education, do you? You seem to not even have a clue about basic vocabulary on the topic.

    Can you use any vocabulary other than “rethug” ?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  264. I had an idea based on somethinbg I read a few weeks ago. Someone wriote in a column that everyone (not everyone actuyally) had one good teacher they remembered.

    This is it. Most of what goes on at school is at best routimne. If somneone has one or two or three verry good teachers, they can set them up.

    What if you have a school where you don;t have evenb one?

    Maybe most teachers are not particularly good. It’s the few exceptional teachers that make a difference. A child does bnest with a few of them.

    Not class size of course, but i think it makes a difference if new students keep getting added in the middle of a year – or the middle of an education.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  265. People vote against public employee unions when the alternatiuve seems to be service cuts.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  266. “Look at all those red states with poor education …”

    Places that have a long history of Democrat Party rule (like Mississippi) have crap educational systems, those with a long history of Republican rule (like Massachusetts, which was solidly Republican up until the 1950s) get better results.

    Shocker.

    There are exceptions, but generally, that’s how it works.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  267. 275 Oh dear you’ve got to be kidding me… Massachusetts is a red state and Mississippi is a blue state? Mr. Surls you’ve officially jumped the shark.

    tye (454855)

  268. “tye” is noticeably silent towards the very specific questions posed by Elissa and JD. Shocka

    JD (c543e6)

  269. tye, for some of us, history did not begin the same year as Lady Gaga’s pop star fame.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  270. “Oh dear you’ve got to be kidding me”

    Not at all. Places that the Democrats controlled for generations tend to have crap educational systems. Those that were controlled by Republicans for generations don’t.

    “For 116 years (from 1876 to 1992), Mississippi was essentially a one-party state, electing Democratic governors. Over the same period, the Democratic Party dominated state and federal elections in Mississippi. From 1877 to 1959, the Republicans only fielded a gubernatorial candidate twice. However, most Democrats, especially in rural areas, are very conservative by national standards. In 1991, Kirk Fordice became the first Republican to win the governorship since 1976. Since then, Republicans have done very well at the state level. They have held the governorship for all but one term, though it would take another decade before they won control of one of the state legislative chambers. However, in 2011, the Republicans took control of the state house, in the process winning complete control of state government for the first time since 1876.”–Wikipedia

    Mississippi was a Dem fiefdom for well over a century…and it shows.

    Now, that the Republicans are taking over (hopefully), we might see some improvement in the years to come.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  271. Sixty years ago is not recent you clown.

    tye (454855)

  272. Massachusetts, OTOH was a Republican stronghold up until the 1950s, and they’re still in pretty good shape (educationally and otherwise), despite 60 years of Democrat party control.

    But, that’s more of an exception, not the rule.

    Just look at California. Long a Republican stronghold, California started going Democrat around 1960 or so…and what was once the best state in the Union is now falling apart.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  273. I won’t answer questions framed to me in a way that I didn’t claim. Questions I ask haven’t been answered.

    tye (454855)

  274. 281 see 280. You clown.

    tye (454855)

  275. “tye” is obviously a product of a failed pubic school.

    JD (c543e6)

  276. tye, the only one here with a Fry wig and floppy shoes is you.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  277. “tye” can you give us an example of actual union busting? An examples of teachers salaries being slashed in half? The number of names you have used here? Or maybe just list the last 5?

    JD (c543e6)

  278. “Sixty years ago is not recent you clown.”

    Nobody said anything about recent…except you.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  279. Anyone with common sense wpuld know how ridiculous that spqr claim is. Care to rescind? Or are you going to stand by your Massachusetts red state statement. And that it is doing so well because Republicans ran it before our current president was even born? Without the left side of the bell curve the right side wouldn’t exist. God bless you spqr.Ironic that the right is mostly on the left side…
    http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-scientific-fundamentalist/201003/why-liberals-are-more-intelligent-conservatives

    tye (454855)

  280. Good Allah

    JD (c543e6)

  281. 287 in that case I’d like to point out that America’s infrastructure has everything to do with our successes as manufacturers of the world, which we completely and totally must thank FDR’s New Deal for. 🙂

    tye (454855)

  282. “tye” and random should hang out, talk about how stupid everyone not named “tye” and random are.

    JD (c543e6)

  283. “Anyone with common sense wpuld know how ridiculous that spqr claim is. Care to rescind? Or are you going to stand by your Massachusetts red state statement.”

    And, anyone with a semi-functional brain would know that I was the one talking about the political history of various states, not SPQR.

    Of course, lefty/Dem types aren’t exactly know for their educational achievements (like being able to read and keep track of who is who).

    Just look at the test scores in Missisippi, if you doubt it.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  284. When is the last time MS voted for a Democratic presidential candidate surls or spqr or whomever you are? I will give you a hint… it was earlier than 1984 which was used as evidence in support of an argument against me earlier… the plot thickens…

    tye (454855)

  285. tye, American industrialized during the New Deal? Sheesh, your knowledge of history is as nonexistent as I thought.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  286. “in that case I’d like to point out that America’s infrastructure has everything to do with our successes as manufacturers of the world, which we completely and totally must thank FDR’s New Deal for.”

    We were the biggest manufacturer on planet earth (thanks to Republican control of the government and their laissez faire approach) long before FDR and his merry band of socialists started wreaking havoc on this country.

    The only thing we can thank FDR for is showing everyone just how much government control of the economy DOESN’T work…and for getting 400,000 Americans and a million or so Filipinos killed by dicking around in Old World wars that are none of our business.

    Those are his big “accomplishments”.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  287. America built its infrastructure because of the New Deal but thank you for changing my argument for me. It means I’m winning when you’ve got to change what I actually said to make a point.

    tye (454855)

  288. tye, no, your claims continue to be utterly ignorant. Unless you think that railroads are not infrastructure. And don’t realize that the Interstate highway system post-dates the New Deal …

    Believing that all American infrastructure dates from New Deal / WPA projects only shows that you are another failed example of the unionized American educational system.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  289. Or dear…. trucking? Anyone?

    tye (454855)

  290. Next, tye will claim that FDR built the Golden Gate bridge.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  291. Willfully stupid. Were all of you dropped on your heads as children. You do not have to answer … the answer is obvious.

    tye (454855)

  292. Trucking? The trucking business post dates the railroad, tye. Whose head was dropped upon?

    However, the modern trucking industry was originally built on surplus trucks built for the Army for WWI.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  293. You are seriously claiming that the New Deal did not develop and improve America’s infrastructure? I would at least understand it if you disagreed with the federal government’s legal ability to do so (y’all being 10th amendment crazies and all).

    tye (454855)

  294. tye, more goal post moving by you. You really aren’t very good at this.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  295. Kenneth, what is the frequency?

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  296. Exactly, elissa. That’s the level of coherence that tye is showing.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  297. “tye” can you give us an example of actual union busting? An examples of teachers salaries being slashed in half? The number of names you have used here? Or maybe just list the last 5?

    Coward. And a clumsy liar. Color me shocked.

    JD (c543e6)

  298. So answer the question… did the New Deal improve America’s infrastructure?

    And trucks drive on roads sweetie…

    tye (cde1b9)

  299. Running around with the goal posts is a habit for “tye”.

    “tye” can you give us an example of actual union busting? An examples of teachers salaries being slashed in half? The number of names you have used here? Or maybe just list the last 5?

    JD (c543e6)

  300. Goal post moving? Oh you’ve got to be kidding. Great joke though! You rethugs are funnier than you get credit for… tell me another joke with your next post. 😉

    tye (cde1b9)

  301. “tye” can you give us an example of actual union busting? An examples of teachers salaries being slashed in half? The number of names you have used here? Or maybe just list the last 5?

    Coward. Liar. Douchenozzle. Mendoucheous twatwaffle.

    JD (c543e6)

  302. tye, that wasn’t your claim. You wrote: “America built its infrastructure because of the New Deal but thank you for changing my argument for me.

    Built. Not improved.

    Transcontinental railroads, tye, predated the New Deal by a half century. The trucking industry was built on the scores of thousands of surplus trucks after WWI. The Golden Gate bridge, tye, was financed by Bank of America and construction started before FDR was even inaugurated.

    Sheesh, your understanding of US history seems to be rooted in fifth grade.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  303. Adolescent

    tye (cde1b9)

  304. I didn’t bring up the Golden Gate bridge. Try to keep up sweetheart.

    tye (cde1b9)

  305. The Golden Gate bridge isn’t infrastructure now, tye?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  306. Democrats seem to think that people traveled in the US via dog-powered travois before FDR. Twits.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  307. Strawman. Is this how you “win arguments? You’re ridiculously obtuse…

    tye (cde1b9)

  308. tye–there were a great number of projects undertaken by the CCC and WPA. Lots of trees were planted, parks and park buildings were created, post offices and schools were built. Murals and other art projects were funded. In some rural areas electricity was brought in and some mule paths were turned into paved roads. The Hoover Dam was completed (although it had been started earlier). Some new roads were carved in the national parks and mountainous wilderness areas primarily for recreation. Now, what was the point you were trying to make by bringing up the New Deal in a thread where we were supposedly discussing the Wisconsin recall and union busting?

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  309. Did I say “every single example of American infrastructure was built because of the New Deal”? If so link to it in your next post. If you do not I look forward to your next joke. You guys are funny tonight!

    tye (cde1b9)

  310. You don’t seem to understand what a strawman argument is, tye. Probably a deficiency in your unionized education. Logical fallacies are really not well studied until after your current grade level in middle school.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  311. Yes, you did tye, you wrote: ““America built its infrastructure because of the New Deal …

    SPQR (26be8b)

  312. English a second language for you, tye?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  313. 320. Are you familiar with the use (and non-use) of superlatives?
    Oh. Silly me. Another joke. Classic!

    tye (cde1b9)

  314. Oh, my. At least the troll used unbiased sources of information!

    Simon Jester (6f91a0)

  315. Now bridges are infrastructure, tye? A minute ago, you said they weren’t.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  316. 325 link to where i said that bridges are not infrastructure

    tye (cde1b9)

  317. tye, there is approx 4 million miles of paved road in the US currently. Your Kos kid link said that the CCC built 7,442 miles (paved and unpaved not broken out) and CWA built 44,000 miles (again, paved and unpaved not broken out), and WPA built 87,000 miles of hard surface roads, urban and rural.

    That’s a pretty small fraction of our road infrastructure. So the New Deal actually was responsible for less than 1 percent of our road infrastructure. Wow, what a legacy.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  318. tye–again, what. is. your. point?????? Maybe we can talk about the 1893 Worlds fair next? Or our favorite movies? Or how to best house train a puppy. And all those topics would also be irrelevant to Walker’s recall victory and teachers’ union dues.

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  319. “I didn’t bring up the Golden Gate bridge. … Comment by tye — 6/7/2012 @ 6:43 pm

    SPQR (26be8b)

  320. ““America built its infrastructure because of the New Deal …”

    “tye” can’t even keep his own asshattert straight.

    Still waiting on union busting and teachers dalaries being cut in half.

    JD (c543e6)

  321. Boring incompetent troll is boring and incompetent.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  322. The butthurt “tye” is experiencing is EPIC

    JD (c543e6)

  323. So you are bringing up a previous comment that i made about not bringing up the Golden Gate bridge to prove that I am the one who brought up the Golden Gate bridge? Good God.

    tye (cde1b9)

  324. JD, it was mean of me to introduce simple math against tye, I admit it.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  325. Do yourself a favor and and read the thread spqr.

    tye (cde1b9)

  326. Should have started with ‘the comfy chair’ SPQR.

    narciso (494474)

  327. tye, can you do percents yet, at your grade level?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  328. Since it learned history at dailykos, this is expected.

    JD (c543e6)

  329. tye, I brought up the Golden Gate bridge (because a lot of people think it was a New Deal project), you said it didn’t apply and then listed bridges as infrastructure.

    You really are not very good at this “logic” thing,tye.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  330. Unionized education …

    SPQR (26be8b)

  331. By reading the thread, one would note “tye” is too cowardly to list all the names it has commented under.

    JD (c543e6)

  332. Your claim boils down to the argument that the rail system has needed no upgrades in the past 100 or so years, that our current industry does not rely on anything built with New Deal money, and that I claimed that the Golden Gate bridge was built with that money. None of that is true.

    tye (cde1b9)

  333. Bridges are infrastructure. I did not say that every American bridge was a New Deal project. Link to where I did.

    tye (cde1b9)

  334. tye, you are creating strawmen. I claimed no such thing.

    You said: ““America built its infrastructure because of the New Deal …”

    Which is not true.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  335. ==Your claim boils down to the argument that the rail system has needed no upgrades in the past 100 or so years, that our current industry does not rely on anything built with New Deal money==

    I thought tye was all poo poo on strawmen arguments. But obviously not! He loves them.

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  336. Its current infrastructure. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it untrue.

    tye (cde1b9)

  337. More amusing, you spent a lot of comments with vague references to the trucking industry. And later you linked to a Kos kid posting which claims that New Deal projects account for … tada! … less than 1% of America’s road infrastructure.

    I’m just devastated by the weight of that. Devastated.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  338. Elissa you conveniently left out the golden gate claim…

    tye (cde1b9)

  339. “tye” is a lying coward. A butthurt coward.

    You said: ““America built its infrastructure because of the New Deal …”

    Lie, or ignorant. Pick.

    JD (c543e6)

  340. How did you feel inside the moment you knew for certain that Gov. Walker had prevailed, tye?

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  341. 1%, tye. Your own favorite bit of infrastructure and you can only establish – with the flimsiest of backing from a Kos kid – less than one f**king percent.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  342. JD, he’s just another ignorant, incompetent product of unionized education. Probably more than half of his teachers are NEA members …

    SPQR (26be8b)

  343. The irony is Hoover dam, like a hundred other projects would never be built today, too much concern over the snail darter, or the spotted slug,
    or some other species, I give you the Keystone Pipeline, which will now be built to supply China’s oil demands. Unlike Ozymandias, there is nothing
    that will remind us of what 800 billion bought.

    narciso (494474)

  344. I’m just wondering how dignified the sore losers would be had they won.

    I am skeptical they would have shown the grace and leadership Walker has.

    Dustin (330eed)

  345. Its current infrastructure.

    Now the NewDeal is responsible for current infrastructure?!

    Union busting? Crickets
    Teachers salaries slashed in half? Crickets

    JD (c543e6)

  346. narciso, actually the Golden Gate bridge is a fascinating story.

    California had kicked around the idea for several decades. It was finally approved and bonds were created to fund it and … zilch. Bank of America’s founder bought them all since they were not selling.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  347. Imagine how butthurt “tye” will be in November.

    JD (c543e6)

  348. You know, alternate history is a fairly popular genre for authors these days. But I don’t think tye’s version is going to be a best seller or make it to very many book clubs.

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  349. If Amadeo Giannini lived today, the Kos kids were be busy creating Koch Industries style conspiracy fantasies about how he was secretly masterminding all opposition to the Teleprompter President.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  350. This is boring. It would be more fun if you didn’t use adolescent insults in almost every post jd. It proves your stupidity. And spqr uses strawmen. If you actually argued against what I said we would have a debate. Boring…

    This is where you post a few jokes to make your point. Make it a good one, basketball is on tv.

    tye (cde1b9)

  351. Well thank God for the depression is all I can say. Where would we be without it. Such blessings it wrought.

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  352. tye, someone who uses “rethug” and “rethuglican” claims that I use adolescent insults?

    You are the clown, tye.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  353. You said: ““America built its infrastructure because of the New Deal …”

    Do you stand by that?

    JD (c543e6)

  354. Oh, surely, and Giannini, wouldn’t have gotten into the scams and flimflams that have tarnished the name, probably change it back to Bank of Italy.

    narciso (494474)

  355. Mandydouchtery is adolescent.

    tye (cde1b9)

  356. You said: ““America built its infrastructure because of the New Deal …”

    Do you stand by that?

    Crickets

    JD (c543e6)

  357. Yes. America’s infrastructure would not be what it is today without the New Deal.

    I feel like Einstein when you address me jd; thank you sweetheart.

    tye (cde1b9)

  358. ““America built its infrastructure because of the New Deal …”

    tye – What infrastructure are you talking about? Can you be specific?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  359. That is not what you claimed.

    JD (c543e6)

  360. Quid pro quo: is mandydouchtery waffleface a adolescent slight?

    tye (cde1b9)

  361. Yes. It is actually. Answer my question.
    Crickets…

    tye (cde1b9)

  362. tye – What infrastructure did President Downgrade’s Porkulus bill address?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  363. ““America built its infrastructure because of the New Deal …”

    Is not the same as

    Yes. America’s infrastructure would not be what it is today without the New Deal

    JD (318f81)

  364. Quid pro quo: is mandydouchtery waffleface a adolescent slight?

    Yes. It is also a factual descriptor.

    Now, tell us all the names you have commented under. And give us examples of union busting. And teachers having their salaries slashed in half.

    JD (318f81)

  365. Crickets…

    tye (cde1b9)

  366. You’re a child.

    tye (cde1b9)

  367. _____________________________________________

    Democrats seem to think that people traveled in the US via dog-powered travois before FDR. Twits.

    Either because of the biases of many historians, or what-not, I didn’t realize that FDR’s predecessor, Republican Herbert Hoover — whose reputation suffered because of the public’s perception he initiated or worsened the Great Depression (which he did) — actually merely began the liberal policymaking that FDR took to the next level.

    Hoover truly was a RINO — squishier than a bag of jello — in that he raised income taxes on the wealthy, from around 25% up to the 70% level (and really spooked the investor class, who already was reeling from the great Stock Market crash of 1929) and created various government-funded do-gooder programs. Hoover, in effect, was an Occupy Wall Streeter of the 1930s.

    Historians definitely are biased when they want nothing but warm and fuzzy feelings to be directed at Democrat-Party-registered Franklin Roosevelt (or Hoover Part 2), whose left-leaning policies not only didn’t end the Great Depression, but made it fester and hang on until World War II.

    Mark (9aa697)

  368. So, it really wasn’t a quid pro quo. Shocka

    JD (318f81)

  369. I answered one question. You answered one question. Didn’t you learn sharing?

    tye (cde1b9)

  370. Historians are biased! I agree. See: Ronald Reagan’s legacy.

    tye (cde1b9)

  371. You have multiple pending.

    List of names you have commented under
    Examples of union busting you claimed
    Examples of teachers having their salaries slashed in half

    JD (318f81)

  372. Well that’s a bit unfair, Mark, Hoover was a technocrat, and he didn’t like the anarchy that
    Wall Street represented, so he thought it needed to be reined in,

    narciso (494474)

  373. Doing the same thing over and over with expectations of a different result…

    Insanity.

    Colonel Haiku (76a075)

  374. just let him bleed out
    exsanguination can be
    a beautiful thing

    Colonel Haiku (76a075)

  375. See but four questions for one isn’t quid pro quo jd. You’re not a good “sharer”.

    tye (cde1b9)

  376. My daughter learned about Dr. Who a few months ago and we’ve been watching it on Netflix. Tonight we saw the last regular season episode they have on instant, The Wedding of River Song (I think that was the title)… lots of alternate histories, very confusing

    I always thought the interstate highway system really started under Eisenhower. I remember my dad and uncles talking about this highway that was going to go all of the way from the north tip of Michigan to the south of Florida (I75) back in the 60’s.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  377. They used to play it on Sci Fi, but they haven’t done a new round in several years, MD, around the time they changed to Syfy, and featured films Roger Corman wouldn’t touch.

    narciso (494474)

  378. MD – you need to study dailykos history

    JD (318f81)

  379. but they haven’t done a new round in several years, MD,

    Do you mean there have been no Dr. Who episodes made for several years?? If so, narciso, have I got news for you!! BBC has been making them again for several years, in fact there is a season going on now, but since we have no way (that we know of) to get current BBC programing we are eagerly waiting for the season to conclude to see it on Netflix.

    MD – you need to study dailykos history
    Comment by JD — 6/7/2012 @ 8:21 pm

    “Like I need a hole in my head” I believe the saying goes. I’m appalled and twitching at the suggestion. What did I ever do to you? You owe me a drink if we are ever at a PP rendezvous together. 😉

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  380. I mean aired in the states, under a non BBC station,
    yes that seems exceedingly cruel to do, MD,

    narciso (494474)

  381. from Peggy Noonan’s WSJ piece today:

    By the way, the single most interesting number in the whole race was 28,785. That is how many dues-paying members of the American Federation of State, County and Municiple Employees were left in Wisconsin after Mr. Walker allowed them to choose whether union dues would be taken from their paychecks each week. Before that, Afscme had 62,218 dues-paying members in Wisconsin. There is a degree to which public union involvement is, simply, coerced.

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  382. The only thing we can thank FDR for is showing everyone just how much government control of the economy DOESN’T work…and for getting 400,000 Americans and a million or so Filipinos killed by dicking around in Old World wars that are none of our business.”

    Sorry to interrupt the food fight, but you know I’m new, and this comment has me wondering. Is the common wisdom here that after Pearl Harbor, and when Hitler declared war on the U.S., FDR should have turned the other cheek?

    leo marvin (45619c)

  383. No

    JD (318f81)

  384. ==Is the common wisdom here that…..==

    Do not search for “common wisdom” here.

    Individual thinkers frequently reach similar conclusions on topics and events, but groupthink is rare and wild and passionate differences of opinion are not unusual.

    elissa (b4c7e6)

  385. “Is the common wisdom here that after Pearl Harbor, and when Hitler declared war on the U.S., FDR should have turned the other cheek?”

    LOL. at that point it’s a little too late to start turning the other cheek, unless you’re Jeanette Rankin (aka the dumbest Republican who ever drew breath).

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  386. Leo- if it fits Their Narrative they will spit out anythibg and defend it like hell.

    tye (eaf692)

  387. Anything*

    tye (eaf692)

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