Patterico's Pontifications

5/26/2012

What a Day Friday Was

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 1:49 pm

Well, yesterday was a hell of a day. Yesterday’s post about my swatting and the campaign of harassment by Brett Kimberlin and others against his critics was at the top of Memorandum for much of the day. Every major conservative blog linked it, and dozens of smaller and medium-sized sites did as well. Some libertarians and lefties also linked the post, and some of them were supportive as well. Having fought this battle largely alone for so long, with the help of only a small handful of close friends, I felt like George Bailey once I realized how many friends I have out there.

Glenn Beck’s The Blaze ran an article about Brett Kimberlin’s harassment of Aaron Walker and myself. The piece was on the front page of the Blaze, and Aaron and I both appeared on Glenn Beck’s radio show this morning.

As I was talking to Glenn, I was also getting ready for work. As you listen to this segment, you have to imagine me simultaneously buttoning up my shirt as I held the phone to my ear with my shoulder; collecting items to take to the car; and so forth. If I sound less than fully on my game, you now have my excuse! Here is my segment:

And here is Aaron’s:

I’d like to correct one thing that I wish I had corrected in that interview. It was not technically a SWAT team at my front door, but rather several uniformed sheriff’s deputies. Nobody was in body armor; they had no battering ram; they had no rifles that I saw — none of the accoutrements of the typical SWAT raid. My memory is seeing several patrol deputies with handguns. They knocked on my door within 18-19 minutes of the call, and my house is in a remote area, so they evidently just sent whoever was on patrol when the call came out.

Mark your calendars: it looks like I will be on Laura Ingraham’s radio show discussing Brett Kimberlin on Tuesday morning. The producers are talking about having me on around 6:30 a.m. Pacific. I want to see if I can get Laura interested in Kimberlin’s numerous false statements under oath before Maryland tribunals.

There is no way I have the energy to link or thank everyone who has supported me and Aaron and Stacy and Mandy and Seth on this story. I will say that a very common reaction was for people I have scrapped with in the past to say, in essence: “I have scrapped with Patterico in the past, but he and Aaron did not deserve this, and I’m with him.” I had this reaction even from people with whom I have had very ugly battles, like TBogg and Jeff Goldstein. Frankly, I went to TBogg’s post fully expecting he might try to draw a snarky equivalence between our current situation and our past battles. But, much to his credit, he didn’t.

I think there is something about having blogging turn into a potentially deadly situation that puts personal arguments into perspective, for all sides, and I thank everyone who put aside past differences to support me and the other victims of Kimberlin on this issue.

I was especially heartened to see this from Radley Balko:

A few readers have sent me this post from Patterico.

Dear God. I hadn’t been following all of this. Patterico and I have had some heated, downright ugly exchanges in the past, but let’s be clear on this: What’s happening to him right now is terrifying. It’s an attempt to terrorize political opponents into silence.

A couple commenters here have suggested there’s some sort of lesson in all of this about SWAT teams or police or something or other.

No. There are no lessons here. The sociopaths who are harassing Patterico and the other bloggers involved need to be arrested and charged with about a dozen different crimes.

That’s my emphasis there, and I agree. There are lessons here, but not having to do with police behavior. As police stations become more familiar with the phenomenon of swatting, I recommend that they react to anonymous weird calls like this by calling the homeowner before knocking on doors and pointing guns. But my cops probably never heard of swatting before, and I don’t blame the police for what they did.

I always expected the libertarians’ thoughts to go straight to the wrong-door SWAT raids when they heard this story. And some have, as the comments to my post show. But Balko was able to look past that to the heart of the issue.

Second look at Balko? And some of the other folks who have risen above past disagreements and ugliness? I’m thinking maybe so.

Our own Dustin wrote an amazing tribute to Brett Kimberlin’s victim Carl DeLong, here.

Finally, so many people wrote supportive emails, gave offers of help and financial assistance, and the like, I don’t know when I’ll be able to personally thank them all. I am determined to try, but I have a trial coming up, so it may take a while. For now, please understand that I have read every single email that you all sent, and I appreciate them all beyond words.

213 Responses to “What a Day Friday Was”

  1. Ding?

    Patterico (feda6b)

  2. Blogburst doesn’t quite capture the phenomenon, it was the first tho.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  3. Dustin’s post on Carl DeLong must have thousands of hits but shows only four comments. The truth is, after you read it there’s just nothing to say.

    creeper (f1f686)

  4. creeper–that’s so true. Dustin’s post touched the soul because it felt so real.

    elissa (3697f9)

  5. There is another take-home lesson besides the points so eloquently made by others.

    Patterico, Aaron, Mandy, Stacy, and Seth have discovered that they have more supporters and friends than they had expected…and that number is far higher, and composed of more fundamentally decent people, than the supporters of the Bad People.

    Fingers crossed. Keep the bright lights on!

    Simon Jester (d4df29)

  6. You should not be surprised by the number of your friends, readers, supporters, and decent people who think you have relevant and interesting things to say, wish you well, and who are outraged by the harassment.

    I am following with interest the application of an Army of Davids (hat tip to the InstaP) to the situation.

    Ken (64031d)

  7. You’ve handled this horrible situation so well, Patterico. I’m proud of you and proud to be a reader here.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  8. Freedom isn’t free, but Lord, why does it have to be so damn expensive?

    Ed from SFV (979724)

  9. I thought about something all day yesterday but held back from saying anything–not sure how appropriate it would be or how it would be taken. But I’m still thinking it today, so what the hay–

    Outside stresses and pressures that breed insecurity often put a big strain onto a marriage or relationship, even the strongest and most solid and healthy ones. In some cases that stress can start to fray the bonds; yet in other cases the bonds seem to grow even stronger. So please, you hang in there, Freys, Walkers, McCains and all the others who are currently walking through this fire.

    elissa (3697f9)

  10. First, if you click on my name, you get the latest. His justice through music website is trying to intimidate us, now. Heh.

    Second, as a programming note, i will be in court early Tuesday morning for this bullsh__ peace order.

    But otherwise, yeah, I feel pretty much exactly like patrick. i have been on five different radio shows and willing to do more, peace order or not. And I thank everyone for the support–sometimes even financial support.

    And yes, I am very proud of dustin. he led his own memeorandum thread on his debut as a solo blogger.

    Aaron "Worthing" (73a7ea)

  11. Thank you for standing up to this. Civilization does depend on the many, many acts of courage that individuals are called to make in their everyday life, often unexpectedly. Glad to hear commentary from you and Aaron that things went well from your perspective.

    I’ve been witness to one ongoing SLAPP outrage at a closer level, but none of that included risk/threat of bodily harm or attempting to frame for a criminal charge.

    Also good to know that when something really important needs to be disseminated through the blogosphere it can be.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  12. Radley Balko’s reaction was standup; sadly, it looks like BK and his collection of scumbag sidekicks have a gaggle of cheerleaders in Balko’s comments section. Rather pathetic.

    M. Scott Eiland (003254)

  13. Your post was awesome Patterico. Don’t let the bastards grind you down.

    Good luck in court Aaron!

    Noodles (3681c4)

  14. Well, I’d ray this was a tremendous success. Perhaps Brett Kimberlin should try a few field, and become a conservative public relations agent? He managed to get you and Worthing into several talk shows and highlight your issues nationally.

    Also, glad you emerged from this with your life after being “SWATted.” SWATting should be considered a form of domestic terrorism. What a horrible thing for you and your family to have to go through.

    I don’t read political blogs, but maybe now I will start to.

    Jordan Rushie (4fca31)

  15. Mr. Balko has the best interests of America at heart I think

    happyfeet (2e5d84)

  16. Ditto DRJ’s comment (#7 above).

    Beldar (ae2d07)

  17. “Second, as a programming note, i will be in court early Tuesday morning for this bullsh__ peace order.”

    A.W. – There might be a few more spectators there this time, just sayin’.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  18. Hang in there, man.

    Ghost (6f9de7)

  19. Patterico, you have handled a very tough situation very very well. I hope in the end you and your family see justice.

    Ipso Fatso (7434b9)

  20. You put Jeff Goldstein and TBogg in the same sentence. And by that, I mean you did it first.

    Dan Collins (af1e93)

  21. Radley Balko’s reaction was standup; sadly, it looks like BK and his collection of scumbag sidekicks have a gaggle of cheerleaders in Balko’s comments section. Rather pathetic.

    I didn’t read the comments at his place or Reason.com — I started to and felt a little ill, and decided to stop. There was a rabid Balko fan named Billy Beck who was banned here long ago who left the following comment here, which went automatically into moderation:

    Waitaminnit… let me get this straight.

    This is a prosecutor who initially defended the SWAT raid that killed Kathryn Johnston in Atlanta, and now his pussy hurts because they banged on *his* door.

    Seriously? This is *rich*.

    Kimberlin is a shitbag from hell, but I have to believe that the ghost of an innocent old woman is having a good laugh, now.

    It is richly deserved.

    Tough shit, Frey. Cope.

    And then there was Pat from Michigan, who said “too bad they didn’t open fire.”

    But Radley was totally classy. We have exchanged friendly emails, even.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  22. I admit that I was really, really impressed with LASO to think they could do a SWAT raid within 18 minutes of the call and in the middle of the night. Your correction clarified that. I don’t know about large (very large!) agencies, but small agencies frequently some SWAT-type gear (ram, fully auto weapons, etc) in patrol units for use in immediate responses. Smaller agencies also have some semi-SWAT training (e.g. “Active Shooter”) for most of their personnel. If anything, your risks were slightly greater than if it had been a real SWAT unit as the shoot/don’t shoot training level would be lower.

    Having retired after 35 yrs of dispatching, this type of call on a non 9-1-1 line or having a different 9-1-1 address from verbally given would have raised red flags and that info should have been provided to responding officers (maybe it was). Swatting may be relatively new, but maliciously false reports of emergencies have been around for a long time.

    roy in nipomo (d31d1e)

  23. Billy Beck is … well … Billy Beck. He states the obvious in a Billy Beck way. If he ever finds anything original to say, he might collapse from a sudden attack of intelligense.

    nk (875f57)

  24. _____________________________________________

    Having fought this battle largely alone for so long

    It’s more understandable to me why you’ve previously been quite interested in — and posted quite a bit about — harassment and sabotage aimed at people (bloggers, pundits, etc) due to their political beliefs.

    Beck’s description of Kimberlin’s supposed ideology — and all the ironies thereof — are why I’ve been so fascinated by the contradictions and corruption evident in the mind of liberals/leftists. By such people projecting their own worst qualities — their own dark side — onto others, their political opposites in particular.

    Mark (17d4e1)

  25. Has Salman Rushdie called to congratulate? That was an epic effort after all.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  26. oops. Billy Beck states the *Billy Beck* obvious in a Billy Beck way.

    Billy, I wrote “The Ballad of Kathryn Johnston”, as soon as the news did arrive. In a heated conversation with Patterico. Nobody, not even some LA Times hating blogger, deserves being shot by stupid cops, on malicious, false 911 calls.

    nk (875f57)

  27. “A couple commenters here have suggested there’s some sort of lesson in all of this about SWAT teams or police or something or other.”

    “No. There are no lessons here.”–Radley Balko

    I disagree. This is the sort of stuff Balko is always complaining about, except in this particular case, instead of the government/police misusing their powers for their ends, a third party manipulated the police into doing it for said third party’s ends.

    At least that’s what it sounds like.

    The police officers I had contact with, when I was recently the “victim” of a prank 911 call were totally professional. They didn’t pull out their guns and start screaming and yelling when they saw a guy with really long hair and a leather jacket walking across a dark field towards them, they didn’t start kicking down my doors when I told them my house was the one they were looking for, they just tried to find out what was going on.

    Ironic, considering what I look like, and my basic attitude about government (too much government, too many laws, too many cops). I get treated with respect and politeness, and the cops follow the law to the letter, while a deputy district attorney has guns pointed at him, gets screamed at, is led off in handcuffs, etc. Hell, the police even frisked the person who supposedly was murdered! What a bunch of paranoid idiots.

    Well, like they say, it’s a crazy mixed up world.

    P.S. I read the comments at Balko’s site regarding Pat Frey and the Kathryn Johnston case, and what some of them are saying is hogwash. When it came out that the police had misused their powers, Pat Frey flatly stated that they should go to prison for the rest of their lives. He is no defender of police or government misconduct.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  28. Even if it wasn’t a SWAT team that responded, the terminology is still correct.

    Kaitian (b51c21)

  29. Over at National Review, a commenter said that Nadia Naffe claimed Patterico had posted her Social Security Number and her medical records on this blog. The commenter said that if this were true, he felt Patterico was getting a taste of his own medicine. I posted comments telling the OP that Patterico had done nothing of the sort, and he could easily search this site for any mention of Naffe, but my comments have yet to appear.

    There is still a lot of deliberate lying going on from BK and his fellow travelers.

    Chuck Bartowski (e1fdd9)

  30. “Nadia Naffe claimed Patterico had posted her Social Security Number and her medical records on this blog.”

    Patterico accidentally posted her SSI which was in a CAPERs document, a slight hindsight. As for her “medical records”, all people did was speculate as to why she passed out in the barn after drinking alcohol, I believe. It was SarahW that made the guess and Naffe assumed they somehow got her medical records.

    Kaitian (b51c21)

  31. Nadia Naife is nuts.

    nk (875f57)

  32. Nadia Naffe is a lying liar what tells lies. these are her friends.

    #rapebarnfromhell

    JD (97d009)

  33. What she needs is someone to rod out her sanitary line.

    nk (875f57)

  34. Nadia Naffe is just doing revenge to get back at Patterico for accidentally posting her SSI as well as her “fictional” medical records although it was a guess and Naffe herself confirmed the guess was right.

    The CAPERs document was posted on Patterico’s site so that it was publicly available for anyone to read.
    http://alturl.com/h6g3v

    The caveat was that Patterico didn’t notice that her Social Security number was included so he edited the document to redact it.
    http://alturl.com/2dh6r

    Speculations as to why she was having problem under the influence of alcohol. Then people guessed she was using Seroquel before she started drinking alcohol.
    “She was taking Seroquel, as indicated in the third deposition.”
    http://alturl.com/kc3b7

    There is absolutely no evidence that someone obtained her medical records. Only Naffe believes this without any proof.

    So what does Nadia Naffe want to do? She wants to investigate Patterico and his wife as to why they can afford a 1.3 million dollar home as Deputy District Attorney’s.

    “I’m looking forward to deposing the Frey’s and analyzing their financials. I want to know how two civil servants in their early 40′s were able to afford a $1.3 million dollar home in Rancho Palos Verdes. My attorney’s will be questioning them about their alleged “swatting” incident, when they’re both under oath.”

    Twitter Feeds of her filing ethic complaints against Patterico & his wife. What does his wife has to do with this? No clue other than the fact she’s his wife?
    Filing against Patterico
    http://alturl.com/4dw6i
    Filing against his wife
    http://alturl.com/okcy8

    Kaitian (b51c21)

  35. I appreciate the kind words. Carl wrote the powerful parts of that post. That’s why it feels so real and painful. That was real loss he documented.

    Ms Malkin had a post that discussed how this affected Carl’s daughter.

    I have been frustrated for months and it was good to put something together that captures what it is Brett does.

    Aaron and his wife have been scared. Every day. Patterico had to sit helpless and restrained as his children’s sanctuary was invaded.

    And now thousands are saying they stand with Patrick, Aaron, and everyone else who refuses to be silenced by thugs, myself proudly included.

    Chuck Bartowski, I replied to that same comment over 24 hours ago and it has yet to appear. I just replied again.

    That is a smear.

    Dustin (330eed)

  36. Patterico,

    Your self-restraint and composure during such a very difficult and frightening time, is admirable, as well as the very well thought out and succinct big post yesterday. So much respect for you here…

    Dana (4eca6e)

  37. You’re a brave man, Patterico, and the world needs more of you. Your strength is amazing. Words fail.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (cc2e20)

  38. I guess I guessed right. :)

    SarahW (b0e533)

  39. xoxo

    MayBee (6fd0ce)

  40. Seriously, go read the thread to see comments on her testimony and the medications she was prescribed at that time.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  41. Nadia’s writing often sounds a lot like BKs.

    I’m very sorry P had to keep this quiet for so long and to so little advancement of the situation.

    Perhaps that will now change.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  42. I recommend that they react to anonymous weird calls like this by calling the homeowner before knocking on doors and pointing guns. But my cops probably never heard of swatting before, and I don’t blame the police for what they did.

    As someone whose reaction is different, I still make the case — coming at you with guns drawn when they have no idea of the nature of the situation is wrong.

    It places cops’ lives before citizen’s lives, because the primary error shoots a civilian, rather than results in a cop getting shot.

    Cops should certainly be wary, their guns available at a fraction of a second’s notice, probably unholstered and in their hand, but absent clear concern for their own safety — having heard shots fired, seeing a person brandishing a weapon or clear evidence of serious harm to others (blood on the walls, whatever) — there is no call to be pointing guns directly at anyone when you answered your door.

    Smock Puppet, 10th Dan Snark Master (8e2a3d)

  43. classic M.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  44. Can you imaging being one of the officers responding to that call?

    The dread of it. Their lives were on the line, too, and their reputations and careers if they made a mistake.

    I can’t can’t can’t understand how investigators could leave them to twist in the wind – let alone the target of the call.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  45. shriveled kimberlin
    not a shred of decency
    or a lick of sense

    Colonel Haiku (ef03c5)

  46. rilly has to suck
    to live life of a wastrel
    law suits and bombing

    Colonel Haiku (ef03c5)

  47. brett kimberlin stole
    oh so much from Carl Delong
    bombing thief he is

    Colonel Haiku (ef03c5)

  48. LLLnadia sits in her favorite chair

    she sits very quiet and still

    happyfeet (0845e7)

  49. Stupid phone is stupid

    happyfeet (c16705)

  50. could have been tragic
    but God was looking out for
    Teh Sultan of SWAT?

    Colonel Haiku (ef03c5)

  51. Wee small children should not awaken wif hot bref of rabid piggy pig angeleno pseudocops in their wee small faces

    Not never ever ever even once

    happyfeet (0845e7)

  52. FWIW- I tried looking at the links about the medications mentioned, could see nothing about the doses used. Maybe I missed it. Seroquel 50 at bedtime and Seroquel 500/day total would mean very different things, for example. Non-lawyers don’t look up things in law books to understand something, they come here and ask a lawyer. hint.
    But that’s just a small aside, my main comment was above.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  53. test – I was just told I was banned at Ace of Spades, checking if I am here too

    Amy Shulkusky (67fbd5)

  54. What do you have to do to get banned for AoS?

    BTW, please don’t post anyone’s address or threaten vigilante justice, if that’s what it was (I’m not saying it was). It’s not helpful, and it’s not impressive.

    Dustin (330eed)

  55. I think we should try to identify the Viking’s fan in the picture wearing “inadequate attire” in order to represent him in a counter suit (or any kind of “suit”, for that matter…)

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  56. Iy was a good trial run , I suppose Kimberlin has to issue that self serving ‘it’s just a flesh wound’ statement,

    narciso (1c125b)

  57. Kaitian, Naffe basically stated that her fantasy lawsuit would only be for illegal harrassment purposes. None of the questions she wants to ask would be allowed.

    SPQR (53e5a3)

  58. 54. What must one do? Deride Ace for his dishonesty on a day when some are attacking his unprincipled stances with some prejudice.

    He gets PO’d and does a handful at a stroke.

    With Monty gone they’ve taken a big step down and I, for one, seldom comment anymore.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  59. I recall there were some dosages mentioned, and if they are, I think it would be doc 3.

    It was a lower dose of seroquel, iirc.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  60. @ 54 Dustin – I don’t post anything but my opinion or links to other opinions, so I have no clue. I know I shouldn’t have posted that here, with all Patrick is going through, but I was so shocked, and couldn’t {at first} find a way to contact Ace. I apologize, amy

    Amy Shulkusky (67fbd5)

  61. Freedom isn’t free, but Lord, why does it have to be so damn expensive?
    Comment by Ed from SFV — 5/26/2012 @ 2:24 pm

    because anything worth having is valuable and that drives the price up?

    this being Memorial Day weekend, a contemplation on that thought is most appropriate.

    I’m just glad Patterico didn’t actually have to ante up when someone tried to stick him with the tab.

    To Absent Comrades.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  62. Non-lawyers don’t look up things in law books to understand something, they come here and ask a lawyer. hint.
    But that’s just a small aside, my main comment was above.

    I did not take my 1 mg of Ativan, today, yesterday, or days before, and I still think Nadia Naife is nuts.

    I understand, MD. Those damn psychotropics have to be really monitored and fine-tuned, by a doctor.

    nk (875f57)

  63. @ 58 gary gulrud – I mostly read various sites, and comment if I feel I have something to contribute that hasn’t already been mentioned, but at ACE, reading the comments can take all day, so I *might* have repeated a point already made?

    Amy Shulkusky (67fbd5)

  64. MD in Philly – Didn’t look at the depo again but looked through the old comment thread where the subject came up. Context does indicates that the docs (prob doc 3) included nn provision of some information abt specific dosages.

    See here
    And here

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  65. Amy,

    The only way to get banned at Aces’, for an honest commenter, is to not share your fried hobo and not pass the Valuright. So who are you really, and what did you really do?

    nk (875f57)

  66. Amy- The pixy misa comment system is notorious for accidental bannings. There’s a site email for ace for tips and things, and you can send a request to be unbanned there.

    Be sure to include your Ip address. Stale posting to older threads is one way to get caught in an anti spam dragnet.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  67. Amy S,

    I don’t know about Ace’s website or whether you were banned or moderated. However, at this website, comments can end up in moderation because the system automatically catches and moderates them — sometimes for a minor reason. For instance, to stop spammers, Patterico’s website sends comments to moderation that have words like p-o-k-e-r and c-a-s-i-n-o, even though there’s nothing wrong with using those words. So maybe your comment included a word that triggered Ace’s filter.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  68. SarahW,

    Don’t trust me, I’m no doctor. But “they”, the “they”, titrate these things on a daily basis, or even hourly bases. And I don’t know why her lawyer permitted questioning about medical treatment.

    nk (875f57)

  69. Strength and bravery personified: Patrick Frey and his wife.

    We are all given devils to battle back into hell.

    This group is yours.

    Godspeed, Patrick.

    You have many people in support and will help in any way we can.

    Anita Busch (a025dd)

  70. Nk I believe her providing that info it had to do with her putting off her deposition or something along those lines.

    Wd have to re-read since it has been a while.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  71. @ 54 Dustin – I don’t post anything but my opinion or links to other opinions, so I have no clue

    Ace’s blog banned me once. I wrote Ace and he unbanned me, apologizing for the site, which had made a glitch. I also get moderated here all the time for innocent reasons.

    It’s no big deal. Price we pay to avoid every other comment being an offer for Lacy Wigs.

    Anyway, as little as I know of Ace, other than his intelligent commentary on politics, I think he’s in the crosshairs of some scary people, so cut him some slack if you can.

    Dustin (330eed)

  72. 63. As other’s suggest that doesn’t fit the bill. Ace banters with an offender before getting mad. He had a post in the last week addressing his expectations and the banning of some troll.

    You do have to push Ace, hard, to get banned.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  73. gary,

    While back, Ace asked us to cut back on profanity, because his advertisers objected. Not all of us did, idiot me included. He did not ban me nor beat me. Could just be the machine as DRJ suggests, or that Ace does not like Ukrainian last names, or that Amy …?

    nk (875f57)

  74. 65. BTW, I do recognize Amy’s ‘handle’ and she is a delicate flower compared to some among current company.

    Ace never got worse from me than I’ve given Rico. Yeah, I’m a jerk.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  75. Sounds like Amy probably got hit by the filter. That sucks.

    Amy, send him an email and include your IP, as others suggested.

    Dustin (330eed)

  76. 73. Well, I can’t speak to the automaton bannings of Dusty or DRJ’s description. Mine was for cause, but I take worse almost every day from the Almighty’s better.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  77. BTW,

    I no longer visit nor link Ace. I have developed a supesrtition about cards. I’m nuts, too.

    nk (875f57)

  78. 61. A dear friend, Norman passed last summer, Bronze star, landed in North Africa, Sicily, spent a winter in the Apennines on his own, lost a platoon of young recruits in southern France spending the night in a creek, ended as a Master Sergeant in Berlin.

    And uncle Art, artillery Captain in WWII.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  79. Thanks for the feedback!

    nk – I haven’t renewed my hobo hunting license yet, so no hobo – fried or in stew {YUM!} for me, and as an alcoholic {dry} no valuerite allowed.

    Sarahw, thanks. I sent the message I got {which had my IP in it} and the last thread I’d posted in – Fridays Overnight Open Thread. While looking for the addy, I finally noticed ACE does have an archive!

    DRJ – got it, no gambling references – oops, did I just get moderated?

    Dustin – lacy wigs is self aware, run!

    gary – I think I’d remember if Ace responded to me – mostly my posts are ignored or after the thread is dead/I killed it.

    nk – close – hubby is Lithuanian/Heinz 57. Me, I’m Hungarian/Heinz 57.

    gary – I’m still laughing – delicate flower? What’d I ever do to you???

    nk – nuts? You? You do leave me scratching my head or nodding in agreement at times, but I missed the crazy vibe!

    Amy Shulkusky (67fbd5)

  80. Patrick – you are a totally stand up guy and I visit Patterico frequently to see your always cogent take on current events.

    I feel bad for hijacking this thread in particular, with all you are going through, and I appreciate your forbearance.

    My thoughts and prayers are with you and yours, and I’m eternally grateful to you for all you do.

    Amy Shulkusky (67fbd5)

  81. Dang, you’re married? And I was looking for a crazy woman who likes fried hobo and cheap vodka. Please, tell your husband that I respect marriage?

    nk (875f57)

  82. örülök, hogy találkoztam veled, Amy

    nk (875f57)

  83. And your husband is likely an ex-pat Ukrainian. Real Lithuanian names have Greek endings “as”. Lithuanians are said to be Greeks who like the sea even when it’s cold.

    nk (875f57)

  84. nk – yep, 25 years in July. My guy knows I talk straight online – only he hears the good stuff ;-P

    He & I are both first generation – I know more Spanish than I do Hungarian. He grew up in Pa – he knows some German from high school.

    örülök, hogy találkoztam veled too, nk!

    Amy Shulkusky (67fbd5)

  85. Kérem, engedje meg, hogy küldjön neked egy dalt.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCbkAdq5wLg&feature=related

    Bit of nudity, music … ahhh!

    nk (875f57)

  86. Thanks SarahW- it took me awhile to actually find the pdf of the deposition.
    People know that Prozac is an antidepressant that is “new”, but has been around a long time by now (~25 yrs?). While safer, esp in overdose, than the older drugs and fewer side effects, the most common problem is a bit of difficulty with insomnia. There are quite a few drugs that can be used for insomnia, many of them as “off label”. Seroquel 25 would be pretty much a low dose used to promote sleep, in my experience.
    The Lamictal dose is also low, but I am much less familiar with it. It might also be used by some docs for migraine prophylaxis, I think. The Prozac dose is standard. As far as looking at the drug doses only, I would not expect her to be troubled by significant bipolar or delusional disorder, and many people deal with depression and function normally with medication. I would also not expect this combo of meds to be unusually nasty with mild-moderate alcohol intake. My overall thought is that I would not expect this combo of meds to be responsible for unusual behavior/reactions. Of course, all of this is only second guessing from very limited information.

    As far as nk and 1 mg of Ativan, most docs would look at you, nk, shrug their shoulders, and say, “He’s all Greek to me”. ;-)

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  87. Well, it’s supposed to be 1 mg every eight hours, but I went from two packs a day to six cigarettes a day on a very beautiful Persian psychologist’s advice, “set a goal”, and a change of habits. Those chemicals scare me. I had morphine for the first time at age 55 (after a neurosurgeon gave me a haircut) and it is rightly named, it gives beautiful dreams, but I tore up the outpatient prescription. I know whiskey and wine. My father was on fentanyil patch and Vicodin for a long time. He preferred aspirin which is not a good thing when you’re also on Plavix.

    Anyway, yes, I admire the Pattericos for stomping snakes.

    nk (875f57)

  88. I think she’s bipolar or has a mood disorder because of context, not the medications per se. This is speculation on a larger picture.

    The only mood disorder mentioned is depression – NN indicated it was serious enough to affect her employment, and anxiety.

    The lamictal, per the depo, is a morning dosage rxd “to keep her coherent.”

    She complained she couldn’t testify accurately because of the medication.

    Lamictal is more typically rxs with seroquel in that dosage for bi-polar disease but I have no medical records of her diagnosis and can only speculate.

    I have to vehemently disagree with you about the alchol intensifying effects.
    That varies but is more prounounced in women.

    I don’t know if she has continued on a similar medication regimen, or whether it was disconintud or any present medication she is on now.

    It’s significance with regard to #rapebarn is that alcohol and/or medication could very reasonably account for her perceptions.

    Read the whole thread if you have time and a notion.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  89. Also, transient situational anxiety usually gets ativan or xanax thrown at it.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  90. It’s an amazing story. Thought I’d share the most succinct blog post on the subject from a friend of mine.

    Mr. D (063632)

  91. At Balko’s site, nestled among some of the less sympathetic posts, I noticed a commenter who said he was ten years old and lived in Indiana at the time of the bombings in Speedway. He described the geography and captured the fear that so many people in the area felt at that time just trying to go about their normal daily lives. By his telling, the city was terrorized for days because nobody could figure out what the bombs were supposed to be about, or what was going on. I thought the first person account from someone who was there and remembered it vividly was very interesting to read.

    elissa (fe33ad)

  92. im confused Patterico….how do you know it wasn’t some random thug you got a conviction on (you are a prosecutor, right?) that sent the SWAT team 3 or 4 policemen to your house?
    Do you have some sort of proof?

    wheelers_cat (e53467)

  93. pardon, forgot my strike.

    how do you know it wasn’t some random thug you got a conviction on (you are a prosecutor, right?) that sent the SWAT team 3 or 4 policemen to your house?

    wheelers_cat (e53467)

  94. nishi, my beautiful dream, did you read the post? Did you hear the voice comparisons? Did you read the voice expert’s opinion?

    nk (875f57)

  95. I like how trolls reveal the smallness of their souls while claiming to be “asking questions” or trying to score points.

    Simon Jester (36e956)

  96. nishi shows that she can’t read.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  97. Very, very disappointed in Wheeler’s Cat. I had hoped maybe this would be one special time she could force herself to stay silent or maybe even to “rise above” and offer a modicum of empathy or support–her being such a long time guest of Patterico’s bandwidth and all.

    elissa (fe33ad)

  98. nishi, I will bring the loaf and the jug. You pick the bough. Dang, girl, go on something? I do not usually pity, I consider it a bad thing, it humiliates the pitied, but for crying out loud?

    nk (875f57)

  99. nk, dude, try eHarmony. You’ll have better luck. ;-)

    SPQR (26be8b)

  100. Thanks, SPQR, but I am speaking metaphorically. Omar Khayam. nishi and I will only share Sufi stories and get drunk.

    I really do feel bad making fun of her. Kicking a baby.

    nk (875f57)

  101. shut up silly cat
    just fur ball after fur ball
    soon coughing up blood

    Colonel Haiku (0fc727)

  102. No, nk, she says she know Sufi, but I imagine she thinks it’s something to have on a gyro. Elissa said it best.

    Simon Jester (36e956)

  103. Much like Otto, knows the main principle of Buddhism, ‘is everyone in for themselves’

    narciso (3c5948)

  104. Very, very disappointed in Wheeler’s Cat.

    People never learn. The bar of expectation remains non-existent because that is where wheeler has set it. Consistently so. There’s no disappointment when one let’s the historical evidence of a person’s character speak for itself. No expectations, no disappointment.

    Dana (4eca6e)

  105. I know, Simon. I grew up with Nazreddin Hodja stories. I know the original Rubayiat, not Fitzgerald’s translation. I know about Omar Khayam’s childhood friend, Hassan, and from where the word “assassin” comes. That’s why I say it’s like kicking a baby.

    nk (875f57)

  106. In any case, the baby did not bother to read the post.

    nk (875f57)

  107. See, here is a great example of the value of this commentariate. I don’t always agree with nk, but I always can learn from him.

    Plus, I have not seen him be rude to people who didn’t appear here with insult guns a blazing. That’s true for mst people posting at this site. .

    Hardly an echo chamber!

    Simon Jester (36e956)

  108. Comment by wheelers_cat — 5/27/2012 @ 11:06 am

    Nishi, one important clue, besides the nature and reason given for written threats received immediately beforehand sent to P and others is that one of those others was targeted by the same caller on June 23 of last year.

    That person’s name is Mike Stack, who was a prinicipal actor in WG.

    (same voice, same “I killed my wife” “I shot her” report) That audio is online here.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  109. Big surprise! Nadia Naffe just protected her twitter feed.

    Kaitian (b51c21)

  110. Yup, Patterico does not run an echo chamber.

    And we are even more polite, at SayUncle http://www.saysuncle.com/. Too many Appalachian ridge-runners with dogs and guns. ;) But I was not polite to Billy Beck, today.

    nk (875f57)

  111. SarahW and anyone else interested in the topic-
    I just lost a post I had already spent way too much time on concerning the med doses in the document.
    Let me try to clarify what I meant. I think the med doses as listed are not firm evidence of anything by themselves. If she said in her deposition that depression interefered with her work, that’s what she said. I imagine there are many people on prozac 20 and seroquel 25 hs who are functioning at 100% and have not been depressed for months. Likewise, I imagine there are people that take this combo and have a beer and fall apart, and others who take this combo with a shot and two beers and feel little, including with the lamictal thrown in. There are those who drink one beer too fast on an empty stomach who get significantly effected.

    So, I am not saying the meds as listed were necessarily “benign”, I’m just saying they are not necessarily indicative of a severe psych problem or predictive of a major reaction to drinking alcohol. They are just there. Now, for example, if a person was on prozac 40 a day and a total of 500 seroquel a day and lamictal thrown in, that would be much more consistent with bipolar illness and likely a bad combination with alcohol. Am I clearer now?

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  112. MD, In isolation they don’t settle any question of what is going on with her, and her current meds, if any are not known by me.

    However there is a larger picture. That combo is NOT commonly used short term to manage situational anxiety.

    Also, I emphasize this point of disagreement – any dose at all would intensify a reaction to alcohol. This would vary depending on the individual. It would be a bigger issue for a female.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  113. Also the reaction suggests the speculations got pretty close to the truth.

    Her accusations make her diagnosis (at any time) and medication history (contemporaneous with her visit to o Keefe) relevant to #rapebarn.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  114. Wheeler’s Cat,

    Why didn’t you just read the dang post? You really think one of Pat’s gang prosecutions resulted in Mike Stack and Patterico being SWATted by a man who is a forensic audio match for Ron Brynaert, the guy who just happened to need to be on the phone with Patterico the night of the swatting, but had to leave the conversation for a couple of minutes… about 20 minutes before the police arrived?

    Did I mention that Ron is ridiculously obsessed with Weinergate, but in a consistently ridiculous way?

    Did I mention that Ron expressed a disgusting degree of hatred for Patterico’s wife, someone he had never interacted with, but was a victim of the swatting?

    Did I mention Ron repeatedly explained how he wanted to punch Patterico?

    Did I mention how many times Ron has carried water for Brett Kimberlin, such as when it was time to smear and out Aaron while Neal remarked that this might just get Aaron killed by Islamic terrorists… wink wink nod nod? Or when talking about his desire to commit violence on Patterico?

    Oh never mind.

    Dustin (330eed)

  115. Here’s the link to the post, Wheeler’s.

    Rise above your differences with victims of heinous crimes. Hell, Jeff G has risen above it. You can tell who values freedom of expression.

    Dustin (330eed)

  116. Dustin, you give a griefer far more credit than her past posts warrant. I’m proud of the way many progressives are denouncing the actions Patterico and others describe. But nishi, despite all of happyfeet’s inexplicable affection, showed her true colors long ago.

    I admired your recent blog entry, by the way. The true victims of Speedway don’t get much attention. If they had, maybe this current double plus badness would not have happened. You are doing your part to give a voice to the voiceless.

    Simon Jester (c28b9c)

  117. Thanks for the kind words.

    It’s not really nishi I’m talking to. It’s whoever comes across that comment and is not aware of the refutation. Unfortunately, some things just have to be answered.

    I welcome nishi to reconsider, though. But i’ve given up on most people being persuaded by good arguments.

    Dustin (330eed)

  118. SarahW- I’m not sure if we are really disagreeing or just in need of a visit to the “argument clinic”. I think you are focusing on what could possibly result from the meds and alcohol and suspected diagnoses, and I do not disagree with you a bit; I’m focusing on what I would necessarily expect to be attributable to the meds/alcohol, and leaving open the possibility there are other factors at play.

    Totally aside from Ms. Naffe, who I do not know and am unqualified to make any opinion about, let alone make a public statement, let me try to make clear what a mean in a general sense.

    The short version in a blunt and unprofessional description, is if a person is “really disturbed”, they don’t necessarily need alcohol to act unusual/irrational, and if a really disturbed person acts out after drinking alcohol, you don’t know how much was the alcohol and how much was the underlying problem.
    John Doe takes in a day 20 mg of Paxil, 25 mg of Seroquel, 1200 mg (400 3xday) of Neurontin/gabapentin, and 0.5 of lorazepam/Ativan as needed up to 3 times a day. John Doe could be in treatment for: 1) mild depression, peripheral neuropathy, and mild episodic anxiety, and be living a completely functional life; 2) generalized anxiety disorder and migraines, under fair control, misses work about 10% of the time and family dynamics are difficult; 3) mild depression and generalized anxiety, migraines, borderline personality disorder, and manipulation/secondary gain issues, and life is a chaotic mess; or 4) psycho-affective disorder presenting as mixed anxiety/depression and poor sleep that will turn into dysphoric mania with delusions by next week; life has been ok but is about to dive into a dark place.
    Take John Doe from above, and depending on what his situation really is, he could have episodes of very disruptive and irrational behavior that were unexpected. Add alcohol to any of the John Does above and it may interact with any one of a myriad of ways. If “John D. #1″ or “#2″ drank some alcohol after having two doses of Ativan, maybe he’s passed out sleeping, maybe he’s slurring his speech but alert and being very loud and inappropriate. If it’s John D. #3, you have no idea whether the alcohol is contributing to bizarre behavior, whether the person is acting out through their borderline personality without really being aware of it, or whether they are consciously role playing to manipulate you, or what combination of all of the above. If it’s John Doe #4 you have no idea whether his energy level is going up or down, whether his mood is going up or down, whether he is more or less connected to reality or is getting increasingly delusional, and again, who knows what alcohol would do added to the mix.
    That is why I say that given a list of meds, (be it John D.’s list or the previously discussed list of Prozac, seroquel, and lamictal) depending on what else is going on, a person may be “normal” or “quite disturbed” without having alcohol at all. Adding alcohol may have an additive or multiplicative effect to the meds and underlying diagnosis to make things more out of control, it may be a relatively minor factor, it could help make the person more sleepy and just “pass out” and prevent anything worse. It’s a bit of the glass is half-empty vs. half full, you could argue that adding some alcohol to the mix would make a big difference, you could argue that enough alcohol might have caused a disturbance whether or not the person was taking certain meds, or you could argue that the person’s underlying condition could have been responsible for whatever whether alcohol was involved or not. One could perhaps “argue it anyway you want” depending on what point you want to make, what legal case one is arguing. With additional information it would certainly make some arguments more reasonable and others less reasonable.

    The other kicker, which is actually quite major, is just because a person has been prescribed meds, that person may or may not be taking their meds, or may not be taking them as prescribed and actually taking more than instructed. Murphy’s Law applied to medicine. So, a person could attribute something to a medication knowing they weren’t taking it, or try to attribute something to alcohol when they really took double the medication they were prescribed, but since those things would be dishonest, they would never happen, of course. ;-)
    I’m not suggesting any of that was involved in the specific case being discussed, I’m just covering all of the possibilities in general. Things never are as clear cut as Monk would make it.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  119. I do know alcohol. I am a good drunk. I do not pick fights, I am not over-affectionate, I call a cab, I do not drink when I have responsibilities.

    But the Greeks have a saying: “The crazy person saw a drunk, and crossed to the other side of the street.” Or, if you prefer Mattie’s, “…a thief in my mouth to steal my mind.”

    Basically, drunkeness is reverse evolution. It starts with deterioration of executive judgment and descends to cerebellar function.

    No sexism, biology. Alcohol does affect women harder than men. It is water soluble, the more muscle mass you have, the slower you will get drunk. (There’s a lot of other factors, but that’s the basic one.)

    nk (875f57)

  120. Mark your calendars: it looks like I will be on Laura Ingraham’s radio show discussing Brett Kimberlin on Tuesday morning. The producers are talking about having me on around 6:30 a.m. Pacific. I want to see if I can get Laura interested in Kimberlin’s numerous false statements under oath before Maryland tribunals.

    9:30 Eastern time.

    The radio show does not seem to be available on any radio station in the New York City area.

    There’s a website that gives stations on which the Laura Ingraham show can be heard but it thinks that a station on which it can be heard is in Newark, New Jersey, when it actually is in Newark, New York (30 miles east of Rochester, 77 degrees west latitude, just north of 43 North latitude)

    However, that is one place to live stream it:

    http://www.1420wack.com

    Sammy Finkelman (2051ad)

  121. Billy Beck: “[Patterico] is a prosecutor who initially defended the SWAT raid that killed Kathryn Johnston in Atlanta, and now his pussy hurts because they banged on *his* door.”

    nk to Billy Beck: “Nobody, not even some LA Times hating blogger, deserves being shot by stupid cops, on malicious, false 911 calls.”

    Yeah, it’s so much better when people are shot by stupid cops milking a living out of the War on Drugs, or any of a number of other state ventures which are no more legitimate and no less malicious and arbitrary than the “charges” to which Patterico was subjected, yet many of which Patterico is party to, if not physically, then professionally and in spirit.

    You like SWAT teams busting lives for doobers, you might want to think whether you’ll ever be SWATed for blowing your dope on the Internet.

    That’s what you get. I believe Beck said, “Cope.” It’s the system Patterico helped build.

    Mike Soja (918853)

  122. Surls: “When it came out that the police had misused their powers, Pat Frey flatly stated…”

    Quiet, you. There were any number of us who understood that case as soon as it happened, because we understood the principles, which is exactly why Frey didn’t.

    Billy Beck (797866)

  123. Billy, nobody says more stupid things than me. But you know? Did you really want Patterico shot, just to make a point that we want fewer cops?

    nk (875f57)

  124. Mike Soja,

    Initially, the cops concealed the truth, and published falsehoods, about Kathryn Jonston. When the truth came out, Patterico published it. More than once. You can do you own search, here, on this site, if you care to.

    nk (875f57)

  125. And you’re a coward to boot, Frey. I see you.

    Billy Beck (797866)

  126. Patterico is a coward, mr billy internet tough guy? Yet he’s the one standing up to terrorists and gangs. You’re the one foaming at the mouth on the internet.

    These swattings are designed to stop free speech. To you, that’s OK because you don’t like the victim’s views. You do not really support freedom of speech then. In other words, you do not support basic human rights. I figured there would be a couple goons out there saying ‘he deserved it anyway’. I did not think they would be civil libertarians.

    But that’s not what you are. You’re a fascist who likes drugs, I imagine.

    Dustin (330eed)

  127. Billy, what the f*** are you? I would call you a mall ninja. Please correct me.

    nk (875f57)

  128. You got Billy down pat, Dustin. (No pun intended ;) )

    nk (875f57)

  129. Even Balko thinks Billy Beck is a clown.

    JD (318f81)

  130. “Patterico is a coward, mr billy internet tough guy?”

    I know what that rat has deleted here. You don’t.

    Billy Beck (797866)

  131. Your business, Mike. But Billy Beck is a jackass.

    nk (875f57)

  132. Wishing somebody shot? Amd then “it” has the temerity to comment on his site? I would say “sight” but the pieces of garbage which compose Billy Beck are not worth the price of ammunition.

    nk (875f57)

  133. Billy Beck loves police pointing guns at people if the people staring down the guns aren’t druggy criminals.

    If they are druggy criminals then it’s an outrage.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  134. Radley Balko turns out to have class.

    Billy Beck turns out to lack it. (Still.)

    Patterico (feda6b)

  135. I know what that rat has deleted here. You don’t.

    You were banned long ago, pal. For good reason.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  136. I have worked with people like Radley. We tried to reduce the sentences of people like Billy.

    nk (875f57)

  137. “Wishing somebody shot?”

    Like I said over at Uncle’s: cite me on that, you bloody fool. I dare you.

    Billy Beck (797866)

  138. “Billy Beck loves police pointing guns at people if the people staring down the guns aren’t druggy criminals.”

    That’s a damnable lie, Frey, and if there were a single reasonable shred in your soul, you would never have said it.

    Billy Beck (797866)

  139. I am not visiting your site, Billy. I do not swimm in sewers. And this would not be the first time you’ve changed a post.

    nk (875f57)

  140. I think Radley is a sincere lover of defendant’s rights. He has a bias, and so does anyone else. I think some of the differences of the past are minor compared to the fact Radley put that aside because of a much bigger issue.

    But Billy here is furious!!!! and very much thinks this is all about Billy, the super tough guy who thinks those he disagrees with are liars and cowards and all this crap.

    What a jerk.

    Dustin (330eed)

  141. And I don’t mean to say that Radley’s other causes are minor issues. I mean to say that blogger disagreements are minor issues.

    Dustin (330eed)

  142. I like Bradley, if he would just stop hating lawyers so much. ;)

    Billy Beck is a nothing. Nada, zilch, zip, nil.

    nk (875f57)

  143. “I am not visiting your site, Billy. I do not swimm in sewers. And this would not be the first time you’ve changed a post.”

    You’re a crummy little coward, and you’re dead wrong. I never edit a post once it’s up because I know the value of history: even when I good, it stays up. I posted exactly the same thing to Facebook and everybody saw it. You cannot cite me on your allegation because it’s not true, and you know it.

    Billy Beck (797866)

  144. No wonder Radley hates us. We don’t know how to type. *Radley* not Bradley.

    nk (875f57)

  145. “…even when I good, it stays up.

    That’s a typo. The word is “goof”.

    Billy Beck (797866)

  146. Thank you, Billy. I have every reason in the world to believe every word you say.

    nk (875f57)

  147. Well, nobody should have a reason to believe you after this, you little shit-heel.

    Billy Beck (797866)

  148. That’s a damnable lie, Frey, and if there were a single reasonable shred in your soul, you would never have said it.

    I published what you said. You were thrilled cops were pointing guns at me. Thrilled.

    Were I a druggy it would incense you.

    Patterico (feda6b)

  149. Was it six or seven years ago, that we discovered you, Billy?

    nk (875f57)

  150. Billy, you get thrilled over the misery of an innocent man whose entire family is attacked over his exercise of basic human rights.

    Congratulations on your little chapter in this fiasco. It will not be forgotten.

    Dustin (330eed)

  151. nk: “Initially, the cops concealed the truth, and published falsehoods, about Kathryn Jonston [sic]. When the truth came out, Patterico published it.”

    Exactly. Patterico was for the violent use of force against his fellow citizens before he was against it. It was just an error. Nothing to see here, citizen. Just move along.

    How many SWAT raids predicated on false premises that are never revealed to the public does Patterico stand behind?

    The way Johnston died wasn’t a disgrace solely because police officers lied in their particulars, but that their reason for entering Johnston’s home were illegitimate, irrespective of the falsehoods underlying their motives.

    It could be argued that there was much less reason to invade Johnston’s home than there was to invade Patterico’s. Doobers vs. murder.

    The problem isn’t crooked cops or swatters or frivolous psycho law monkeys, but that there is an established overly-authoritarian system populated with Pattericos making excuses for invading people’s lives and throwing them in jail.

    Let me ask this: Does Patterico have any new found sympathy for those who wake up to flash bangs and physical violence than he did before?

    Mike Soja (918853)

  152. –*Mike Soja. My credentials concerning Kathryn Johnston: http://krites.blogspot.com/2006/11/ballad-of-kathryn-johnston.html*–

    That’s a poem. It’s not credentials. It doesn’t touch a single larger issue.

    Mike Soja (918853)

  153. –*Your business, Mike. But Billy Beck is a jackass.*–

    Yeah, he jacks your ass.

    So what?

    You have anything substantive to say?

    Mike Soja (918853)

  154. “You have anything substantive to say?”

    Mike – I do. I take dumps that are more substantive than you and Billy Beck.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  155. nk: “I am not visiting your site, Billy. I do not swimm in sewers. And this would not be the first time you’ve changed a post.”

    I’ve been reading Billy Beck since 1995 or so.

    I don’t believe you’re capable of documenting your slimy allegation, and I’ve only been reading you for a couple of hours.

    Funny, huh?

    Mike Soja (918853)

  156. daleyrocks: “I take dumps that are more substantive than you and Billy Beck.”

    Never got over your toilet training, eh?

    Mike Soja (918853)

  157. Mike,

    The three perjurious cops said the lady wounded them. It turned out it was ricochets from the hundred or so rounds they fired ar her. Patterico and I took different points of view. It’s important that it was based on the same reported facts. I took one view, Patterico took another.

    It’s a discussion. Are you all-knowing and right all the time?

    nk (875f57)

  158. –*It’s a discussion. Are you all-knowing and right all the time?*–

    Please. Explain to me how shooting little old ladies for dope smoking makes you knowing and right, even if they are little old dope smoking ladies.

    Mike Soja (918853)

  159. The cops filed an affidavit for a no knock warrant. (That it was a dope house.) A judge granted it. It took a few days to be discovered that the affidavit was fiction. It was police and prosecutors who discovered it and sent those guys on long vacations.

    nk (875f57)

  160. The issue here isn’t anybody being thrilled by what happened, the issue is Patterico’s hypocritical reaction to it. A man who makes his living brandishing – and often firing – the gun in the room at targets of convenience is shocked… shocked I tell you, at being briefly swept by the muzzle. Even after the harrowing experience of being wrongly on the other end of it, he still doesn’t question the gun in the room. Even after the Johnston affair, he didn’t question the way it is recklessly waved around against those sub-humans he labels “druggies”, he merely complained that this was not an *officially sanctioned* innocent victim.

    Kyle Bennett (a50d88)

  161. Balkobotz are never not tiresome.

    JD (bd887a)

  162. The issue here isn’t anybody being thrilled by what happened

    Really? How convenient.

    the issue is Patterico’s hypocritical reaction to it.

    I think that is amazingly unreasonable.

    Even after the Johnston affair, he didn’t question the way it is recklessly waved around

    It’s obvious you are not familiar with Patterico’s position on that matter. You want to hijack a discussion of political terrorism via swat team into a discussion of whether we should have swat teams or a drug war.

    You are dismissing *the issue*, which is that this is political thuggery, and insisting *the issue* is really the drug war.

    In other words, you don’t see much of an issue in attacks on free speech, if you disagree with that speech. And you are defending someone who was thrilled by political terrorism.

    I’m not persuaded by arguments like ‘you’re a pussy’ and ‘he jacks your ass’

    A man who makes his living brandishing – and often firing – the gun in the room at targets of convenience

    Patterico is not authoring any laws. He is enforcing them.

    And here’s what he had to say about the cops who lied in the Kathryn Johnston case being found guilty of manslaughter:

    It’s not enough. We now know, based on the plea, that these officers lied to get into that house. This was a felony murder. These men should never again see the light of day.

    It’s like you think people who make honest errors about situations they didn’t personally understand are now fair game, and thus “the issue” when they are subject to terrorism is that you disagreed with them about the drug war.

    You are disgusting.

    Dustin (330eed)

  163. BTW, Patterico isn’t being hypocritical in any way. That is a lie.

    He did not say that the police’s good faith reaction to a report of a shooting is wrong. He said that the person who lied in a way that sent police into the house is wrong.

    This is functionally identical to his commentary on Johnston. He harshly criticized the liars in that case.

    Dustin (330eed)

  164. When one advocates the militarization of the police and the continuation of a failed Progressive-era policy, then one shouldn’t be surprised if those evils are eventually employed against oneself, even if there is another question involved. Consistency of principle is the point here.

    ebrown2 (c0a3f0)

  165. “Patterico is not authoring any laws. He is enforcing them. ”

    “I vas just followink orders!” It’s a more damning defense than a confession would have been, but I won’t hold Patterico to your bumbling attempts at apologetics.

    Yes, the attempt was clearly to quash his free speech using the apparatus of the state, and it’s a really lousy thing. But your attempt to limit the question to that context is what is “convenient”, since it is only by such a narrow view that the reaction is not hypocritical. Patterico fully supports the building and growth of that apparatus and its use against *other* innocent people, as proven by the form his objection to Johnston’s murder took (she was a different class of innocent).

    Of course the issue is the drug war. It’s the only context in which *any* of this could have happened in the first place. Patterico’s SWATting, Johnston’s murder *and* every “legitimate” drug raid all deserve equal condemnation. That you guys interpret pointing that out as an expression of delight in one of them telegraphs your deep commitment to knee-jerk defensive compartmentalization.

    Kyle Bennett (a50d88)

  166. When ebrown2 thinks the real point in political terrorism is what the victim believes, ebrown2 shouldn’t be surprised when people think he has a fascist’s contempt for diversity of opinion.

    ebrown2 thinks Patterico shouldn’t be surprised that someone lied that he shot his wife because, after all, he ‘advocates the militarization of the police’ (ebrown2 did not provide any citation for this claim, I notice).

    That’s a disgusting hatred for freedom of speech.

    Dustin (330eed)

  167. “I vas just followink orders!” It’s a more damning defense than a confession would have been, but I won’t hold Patterico to your bumbling attempts at apologetics.

    Are you comparing what I believe was a narcotics investigation to Hitler’s concentration camps?

    Wow.

    Dustin (330eed)

  168. You guys really hate Patterico. Damn.

    That you guys interpret pointing that out as an expression of delight in one of them telegraphs your deep commitment to knee-jerk defensive compartmentalization.

    Can you please quote the comment we’re referring to? I’m guessing you didn’t even bother to read it. Prove me wrong.

    Dustin (330eed)

  169. Are you comparing what I believe was a narcotics investigation to Hitler’s concentration camps?

    Yikes. That’s kind of like comparing the First Amendment right to harass someone with the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960′s.

    Kman (5576bf)

  170. Dustin – they are vile trolls. And liars. Point and laugh.

    JD (bd887a)

  171. “Prove me wrong.”

    Sorry, I don’t blindly follow orders from someone attempting to sound like an authority. Just search this thread for the initial uses of the word “thrilled”, and prove it to yourself.

    I don’t hate Patterico, I *see* him.

    Kyle Bennett (a50d88)

  172. Radley Balko supports Patterico in this matter. It must be hard for some of his supporters to accept that.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  173. No shock which side Kmart is on.

    My day will not be complete until Kyle calls everyone nazis, fascists, AND boot lickers.

    JD (bd887a)

  174. In case some haven’t noticed,

    they attacked Patterico’s entire family. He had to worry about his children’s safety and their being terrorized. Patterico’s wife had to worry about her children being terrorized and was powerless to protect them.

    Billy Beck, whose comments in thread are consistently hateful and deranged, claims that Patterico “richly deserved” it because of Patterico’s expressed opinions in good faith. Opinions which include condemning the police who lied in the Kathryn Johnston case, I might add.

    Billy also thinks that when someone criticizes their family being attacked in this way, a good way to sum it up is that their “pussy hurts”.

    Yet when this exact tragedy happened to someone who did not express the opinion Billy Beck is a fascist against, he thought it was a tragedy.

    And his buddies are claiming ‘the point’ and ‘the issue’ is what Patterico’s opinion… even though they are unable to accurately describe it.

    Dustin (330eed)

  175. Sorry, I don’t blindly follow orders from someone attempting to sound like an authority.

    You’re pretty defensive about a request you back up your claims.

    Anyway, I just proved you wrong. Obviously you internet tough guys are not strong enough to admit it. In my experience, people like you and Billy act this way to compensate for weakness.

    Dustin (330eed)

  176. When ebrown2 thinks the real point in political terrorism is what the victim believes, ebrown2 shouldn’t be surprised when people think he has a fascist’s contempt for diversity of opinion.

    ebrown2 thinks Patterico shouldn’t be surprised that someone lied that he shot his wife because, after all, he ‘advocates the militarization of the police’ (ebrown2 did not provide any citation for this claim, I notice).

    That’s a disgusting hatred for freedom of speech.

    No, that’s -principled support- of freedom, the Niemoller principle in action. I support Patterico’s right to not have a police gun shoved into his face even though he hasn’t extended that courtesy to others.

    ebrown2 (c0a3f0)

  177. Kyle calls everyone nazis, fascists, AND boot lickers.

    Comment by JD

    And it’s projection. He’s the fascist. He cannot accept a world where those who disagree with him on the drug war are entitled to their opinion.

    He defends Billy’s assertion that they richly deserve to be attacked.

    Dustin (330eed)

  178. Patterico, with defenders of this sterling quality, you don’t need critics.

    “No shock ***which side*** Kmart is on. ” [emphasis mine]

    You probably have no idea how telling a statement that is, do you?

    JD, your fantasies are your own business. I suggest you keep them private, else it’s going to creep people out.

    Kyle Bennett (a50d88)

  179. What a bizarre number of kooks showed up in this thread when I wasn’t looking.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  180. He defends Billy’s assertion that they richly deserve to be attacked.

    Comment by Dustin — 5/30/2012 @ 9:12 am

    Hmm, let’s see what Beck actually said:

    He said this:

    “I published what you said. You were thrilled cops were pointing guns at me. Thrilled.

    Were I a druggy it would incense you.”

    I wrote this:

    “You’re still lying, because that’s what you are. It’s not true, Frey. I don’t like any of this, and it started with Kathryn Johnston, whom I now remind you was not a ‘druggie’. She was an innocent old woman right straight off the jump, who never deserved to have her door kicked in on that evil mission. And when they did it to you, I didn’t like it at all, but justice is like that, sometimes.

    Go forth, fool, and sin no more. Find yourself an honorable profession.”

    http://www.two–four.net/weblog.php

    ebrown2 (c0a3f0)

  181. btw, drug war opponents, if you are swatted because of a liar, I will not say that was justified just because you said someone who suffered a wrongful swatting “richly deserved” it.

    Even though you have sadly taken on the very position you falsely claimed Patterico did: saying innocent people deserve police invading their homes.

    Because I love my freedom of speech and am an honest man, I support your freedom to say things I don’t agree with.

    I don’t just pay lip service to freedom in order to say I think everyone should be free to use narcotics.

    Dustin (330eed)

  182. And I hope Balko and Patterico debate eachother on this topic with a hell of a lot of respect in the future. More than has existed in the past, from both sides IMO.

    Doing so passionately is a celebration of free speech, which Balko has been admirable in supporting even when it’s someone he differs with.

    Dustin (330eed)

  183. btw, drug war opponents, if you are swatted because of a liar, I will not say that was justified just because you said someone who suffered a wrongful swatting “richly deserved” it.

    Even though you have sadly taken on the very position you falsely claimed Patterico did: saying innocent people deserve police invading their homes.

    Because I love my freedom of speech and am an honest man, I support your freedom to say things I don’t agree with.

    I don’t just pay lip service to freedom in order to say I think everyone should be free to use narcotics.

    Comment by Dustin — 5/30/2012 @ 9:21 am

    Considering that you have just demonstrably lied about -me-, I take your professions to have very little weight.

    ebrown2 (c0a3f0)

  184. Kyle and ebrown are funny. And dummerer than a 2×4.

    JD (bd887a)

  185. Aaron has a great way of describing this. I’ve heard it a few times, but Aaron’s the man who backs it up.

    You don’t need freedom to say things others agree with. You need freedom to say things others want you to not say… things they find extremely objectionable. There is no freedom to say ‘unoffensive’ speech. That is something you can do in North Korea or Saudi Arabia or Tehran or Nazi Germany or ebrown2′s ideal world. You need freedom to say ‘offensive’ speech, by which I mean things like ‘I support the war on drugs’, apparently.

    Dustin (330eed)

  186. Aaron has a great way of describing this. I’ve heard it a few times, but Aaron’s the man who backs it up.

    You don’t need freedom to say things others agree with. You need freedom to say things others want you to not say… things they find extremely objectionable. There is no freedom to say ‘unoffensive’ speech. That is something you can do in North Korea or Saudi Arabia or Tehran or Nazi Germany or ebrown2′s ideal world. You need freedom to say ‘offensive’ speech, by which I mean things like ‘I support the war on drugs’, apparently.

    Comment by Dustin — 5/30/2012 @ 9:39 am

    Of course you have the freedom to do that, and others have the freedom to call you a hypocrite if the increase of the power of the state comes back to haunt -you-, specifically, and to do so without themselves advocating that action.

    Do you really have a need to continually and demonstrably -lie- about what others say?

    ebrown2 (c0a3f0)

  187. Nice moronic convergence this morning.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  188. Suitable video clip.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  189. Ebrown – even Balko thinks you are a twatwaffle. But feel free to vent your spleen, your hatred, anger, and spittle is kinda funny.

    JD (bd887a)

  190. Ebrown – even Balko thinks you are a twatwaffle. But feel free to vent your spleen, your hatred, anger, and spittle is kinda funny.

    Comment by JD — 5/30/2012 @ 10:20 am

    I’m sorry to see that you think empowering the Brett Kimberlins of the world is amusing. Statists enjoy power and the ability to use it against those who do things they disagree with. You are only objecting because -your- ox got gored (indirectly), not out of a consistent and principled opposition to this sort of behavior.

    ebrown2 (c0a3f0)

  191. I object to police swearing out false warrants. I object to terrorists swatting people. So, ebrown, that was a lie you just told.

    JD (bd887a)

  192. I agree with Patterico’s post from ages ago that the police who swore out the false warrant belong in prison for the rest of their lives.

    It is sick that someone would say P richly deserves swatting, and unsurprising that such hate is intertwined with ignorance.

    Dustin (330eed)

  193. I object to police swearing out false warrants. I object to terrorists swatting people. So, ebrown, that was a lie you just told.

    Comment by JD — 5/30/2012 @ 10:40 am

    But do you object to the state being given the power to do that -in principle?- That’s what Kimberlin is exploiting.

    ebrown2 (c0a3f0)

  194. I also don’t find what Kimberlin did to be amusing, as you stated. Another lie. Tsk Tsk

    JD (bd887a)

  195. I agree with Patterico’s post from ages ago that the police who swore out the false warrant belong in prison for the rest of their lives.

    It is sick that someone would say P richly deserves swatting, and unsurprising that such hate is intertwined with ignorance.

    Comment by Dustin — 5/30/2012 @ 10:43 am

    NO ONE “deserves swatting.” However, if one advocates it for others who do actions one disagrees with, that person will not garner much sympathy. Kimberlin is able to game the system -precisely because- of the expansion of police powers and constant attacks on limitation of state intervention into individual liberty.

    ebrown2 (c0a3f0)

  196. One consequence of this story is that we now know who loves liberty and who hates it.

    Balko is firmly in the camp of loving liberty. Some others… not so much. Maybe they are simply petty small people who live for blog fights and can’t see from a sane perspective. Maybe they just have an addiction to a banned substance and have defined liberty as crushing anyone who disagrees with their need.

    Dustin (330eed)

  197. “Kimberlin is able to game the system -precisely because- of the expansion of police powers and constant attacks on limitation of state intervention into individual liberty.”

    ebrown2 – Wait, responding to fake 911 calls is due precisely to an expansion of police powers and attacks on individual liberty in this country?

    Do you need a license to be so dumb and go out in public?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  198. I guess having 911 and ordinary Sheriff’s deputies is an expansion in police powers over what Brown thinks is compatible with liberty.

    Then again, saying someone richly deserved to be swatted because of their political views is supposedly a liberty centric view to these people.

    I get the impression these thugs have not even read Patterico’s post.

    Dustin (330eed)

  199. “I get the impression these thugs have not even read Patterico’s post.”

    Dustin – I agree. I helps them advance an equivalency that doesn’t exist.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  200. They dont need to read the book to pass the test.

    JD (bd887a)

  201. Dustin – I agree. I helps them advance an equivalency that doesn’t exist.

    Comment by daleyrocks

    Yep. They need their little *point* !!! !!! !!! And they really need to miss the actual point in order to promote it. It’s sad because they built a caricature of Patterico and in hating that caricature… became what they hated.

    Dustin (330eed)

  202. “… someone richly deserved to be swatted because of their political views …”

    It’s not a case of “deserved”, in the sense you are trying to get away with using it. It’s a case of giving moral sanction to the system to which one then becomes a victim.

    Vicky Walvin (13a880)

  203. in the sense you are trying to get away with using it.

    ? He said he deserved it. I’m not trying to ‘get away’ with any degree of misdirection in noting that he said Patterico richly deserved to be swatted, and then explained this because of his version of Patterico’s policy views (which have been shown to be somewhat inaccurate, but this doesn’t really matter on principle).

    It’s a case of giving moral sanction to the system to which one then becomes a victim.

    What system? 911 calls? Deputies? What specific system are you saying needs to not be morally sanctioned, and then was used against Patterico?

    And you don’t understand why I say this because you failed to read Patterico’s post. Which makes perfect sense. Why would a wannabee fascist censor bother reading a disagreeing view?

    Dustin (330eed)

  204. “He said he deserved it.”

    He said that Kathryn Johnston deserved to have a laugh about it. http://www.two–four.net/weblog.php?id=P5212

    Vicky Walvin (13a880)

  205. Vicky Walvin,

    If that’s Billy’s picture? All my clients liked that goatee on their “girlfriends”. Do I need to explain?

    nk (875f57)

  206. Billy Beck is a punk. Do want waste your time on him. Your business if you want to waste time on him.

    nk (875f57)

  207. ZOMG – that is a bad 70s porn dude

    JD (65d1c1)

  208. Dustin, you are an effenheimer moron; nk, you are an effenheimer grinning hyena.


    Portrait of nk
    .

    Unlike the endlessly-patient and endearingly Quixotic Mike Soja, I have no intention of wasting my time attempting to be civil in what is, with barely two-seconds glance, a barrel of hypocritical weasels.

    Tell me you don’t “richly deserve” everything what-goes-around-comes-around to you, and more.

    Michael Schneider (93341a)

  209. Look squirrel!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  210. Schneider, wow – you dug up a fifteen year old internet meme. Really up to date aren’t you? Besides, I was the model for that image, not nk.

    And we are rabid muskrats, not hypocritical weasels. Get it right, clown.

    SPQR (3944f2)

  211. Stick to debunking, SP.

    (You’re quite good at it.)

    Michael Schneider (93341a)


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