Patterico's Pontifications

12/29/2006

Saddam Hussein Executed

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:19 pm

It appears to be confirmed. Drudge is reporting that it’s done.

Does this mean that Iraq is fine now, or that we are at some kind of a turning point? Does it mean that Iraq will be different tomorrow in any perceptible way?

Of course not.

But in the grand scheme of things, this is a huge step forward. When the history of the war is written, this will be one of the pages. And this will remain so despite the best attempts to minimize it, by lefties both inside and outside Big Media.

Rot in Hell.

P.S. I’ll keep my eyes peeled for the video that Big Media thinks you shouldn’t see.

136 Responses to “Saddam Hussein Executed”

  1. i admit that i was wrong about the timing of this, i had the long field (post-2007). i didn’t think the iraqis could get their act together to do anything swiftly, look at how long it took them to form a government after their parliament was elected, and saddam had residual value to certain parties, the sunnis and perhaps the americans.
    hope the iraqis have the good sense not to get all violent on each other now, and the americans have the good sense to stay off the streets for a few days.

    assistant devil's advocate (302e50)

  2. Here’s another link to a BBC report citing Iraqi TV.

    DRJ (51a774)

  3. The network coverage of this Hussein execution is an epitome of the coverage of the war and the entire reconstruction. These networks, AP, and the big newspapers have absolutely NOBODY in place to report what is going on. Listen to these clowns on TV totally talking out of their asses, repeating absolute rumors, for hours.

    Most of these are public companies, so we should expect them to maximize their profit every quarter by cutting cost at every corner (like repeating news from other news sources). But come on! With mediocre effort any one of them could pull way out ahead of the rest.

    CNN or FoxNews shows a bunch of Iraqis celebrating at the news. OF COURSE, this is not an actual video camera in Iraq, it is a video camera in Dearborn Michigan. You really have to laugh at the incompetence.

    Wesson (c20d28)

  4. Well, as for links that you probably shouldn’t see, how about Saddam Death Haiku?

    Oh, and the Dead Pool has awarded points, so it must be official.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  5. It is CNN with the extensive reporting of Iraq’s reaction to Hussein’s execution – from Michigan. Oh my god this is retarded.

    Wesson (c20d28)

  6. if there is any questions left on moral bankruptcy of the American Left, check out the commenters on this koskiddie thread

    Oh…be sure to wash thoroughly afterwards.

    Darleen (543cb7)

  7. Satans B1tch! — Famous last words: “Allahu Ak-k-k”…

    Evil men swing like a pendulum do Soldiers in Humvees, two by two Weapons of mass death, way back whenThe hollow white cheeks of the dead children …(With apologies to Roger Miller) There’s a banner at the top of CNN’s…

    Bill's Bites (72c8fd)

  8. Right now CNN and FoxNews are using the EXACT same video from a green zone hotel balcony, showing the sunrise over Baghdad. This is a special sunrise, the sunrise after Hussein has been executed. I don’t think this is MSM bias anymore. It’s that they want to spend no more than $10 per hour for stock footage. No reporters. No money. No risk. No unneeded information. No risky trips into hostile territory. No Ed Bradley.

    Wesson (c20d28)

  9. TPM

    Reuters, December 29th, 2006 18:35 GMT …

    The White House declined to comment on the timing.
    “That is a matter for the Iraqi people, we are observers to that process. They are a sovereign government and they will make their own decisions regarding carrying out justice,” spokesman Scott Stanzel said in Crawford, Texas.

    AP, December 29th, 2006 10:02 PM Eastern

    An adviser to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Saddam would be executed before 6 a.m. Saturday, or 10 p.m. Friday EST. Saddam and others were convicted of murder in the killings of 148 Shiite Muslims from an Iraqi town where assassins tried to kill Saddam in 1982.

    The time was agreed upon during a meeting Friday between U.S. and Iraqi officials, said the adviser, who declined to be quoted by name because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

    “But in the grand scheme of things, this is a huge step forward” Are you kidding me? In what world will this be anything but a footnote? 600,000 dead, a country destroyed, and you crow about THIS?

    How you can claim morality on your side, let alone whatever god you claim to worship is beyond me.

    [And the lefties try to minimize this significant event, just as I predicted . . . — P]

    AF (8f7ccc)

  10. See a sarcastic visual of George Bush playing a round of “Hangman”…here:

    http://www.thoughttheater.com

    Daniel DiRito (38fc72)

  11. Fallout From Saddam’s Fall…

    US forces are on high alert in Iraq against potential threats, and you can be assured that law enforcement in the US is going to be on the watch for threats with New Year’s celebrations right around the corner. The thing is that the jihadis really do….

    A Blog For All (59ce3a)

  12. Sic semper tyrannis.

    nk (2ab789)

  13. AF

    Maybe if you were an Iraqi who was digging relatives out of one of Saddam’s mass graves, or who had your 13 year old daughter taken to be one of Uday’s disposable sex slaves, you might not think execution of such a monster was trivial.

    Or maybe, if you were a moral human being, you might not think that either …

    Darleen (543cb7)

  14. Darleen,

    I’m betting that AF stands for Abdul Falafel. We’re getting the Al Qaeda point of view from him. They have always been very good at propagandizing their killing of their neighbors for drinking water from their well.

    nk (4d4a9d)

  15. This is a line from the movie “Heavy Metal” that seems very appropriate for the execution of Saddam…

    To defend: this is the pact. But when life loses its meaning and is taken for naught, then the pact is to avenge!

    Saddam and his cronies (including his sadistic sons) took the lives of thousands, if not millions of Iraqis (Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis) who dared to speak out against him and his regime. The Iraqi people have their justice today – and the tyrant is in a place worse than hell, paying for his crimes against his fellow man. His place in history is assured – next to Stalin, Mao, Hitler, Che and the other butchers that have put fear and terrorized others for the sake of their amusement.

    fmfnavydoc (78befa)

  16. 225 thousand children killed by the sanctions, Maybe 600,000 of all ages dead in this war and you moralize?
    You want ot bring up France and Russia again? Then I’ll have to come back with “dual use technology” …again. Or the CIA list of people for Saddam to get rid of after he came power… again.
    Or the fact that we just made another martyr.
    read, please From the 50’s to the end.

    Thanks for the memories

    AF (8f7ccc)

  17. Ousted Iraq Dictator Saddam Hussein Is Executed…

    Iraq’s ousted dictator Saddam Hussein has been executed &mda……

    The Moderate Voice (fa8fba)

  18. AF

    You’re condemning sanctions? Really?

    No sanctions, no war, no trials, no….

    Ah what the hell, eh, AF? Saddam made the trains run on time!

    Darleen (543cb7)

  19. Kevin Murphy-

    25 more points may be going out to those who picked Saddam if he turns out to be the last gasp for the year.

    Then, it’s all RichBo’s problem. 😉

    Laurence Simon (9d225e)

  20. Meryl Yourish has a thread open to Saddam hangman haiku.

    Join the fun!

    Darleen (543cb7)

  21. Saddam Hussein is dead.

    Wesson (c20d28)

  22. AF is right. Think of all the people who were gunned down trying to capture Bonnie and Clyde. Far fewer peope would have died if we had just let them continue their robbing and killing spree unopposed. We should not oppose evil people because innocent people could get hurt. Just let the serial killers, the mass murderers, the torturers, the rapists, and the brutal dictators do their thing. If we do nothing then we cannot be blamed for anything bad that happens. If we try to stop them and someone gets hurt, then it’s our fault.

    Doc Rampage (1676d0)

  23. I may be the last total supporter of Bush’s policy in Iraq. But really, how hard is it for the US government to articulate WHAT IS GOING ON with Saddam Hussein? How hard is it for reputable news organizations to report news in a timely manner? Oh that’s right – ahhh the fear of the waaaarrrzoooonnnnne. Where is Ed Bradley when you need him?

    Wesson (c20d28)

  24. Haha. The fox news reporter standing on her green zone hotel balcony was caught lying about about all the persistent celebratory gunfire. You really have to laugh at all this bullshit incompetent voodoo reporting. The US has spent billions of dollars on this war, and we deserve accurate reporting on what is actually going on. 10:40 PST

    Wesson (c20d28)

  25. #

    Sic semper tyrannis.

    Oooh. Was Booth there?

    actus (10527e)

  26. When will you righties start calling for the hangings of all those new Saddams – be they Dawa, Badr, Sadrist, Baathist, Al Qaeda, Kurdish – who are committing the same atrocities but at an even greater overall rate than occurred under Saddam.

    Just wonderin’ — if you’re all vigilante humanitarians now; when are we going to see some principles?

    I missed all of Pat’s posts calling for the hangings of all the other world leaders whose governments committed atrocities as bad or worse than what happened at Dujail in 1982. Botha/De Klerk? Pinochet? Islam Karimov? The Saudi Royals?

    [Shorter Macswain: blah blah blah . . . — P]

    Macswain (5b310d)

  27. The quality of mercy is not strain’d,
    It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
    Upon the place beneath: it is twice blest;
    It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
    ‘Tis mightiest in the mightiest: it becomes
    The throned monarch better than his crown;
    His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
    The attribute to awe and majesty,
    Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
    But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
    It is enthroned in the hearts of kings,
    It is an attribute to God himself…

    Hehe, who am I kidding.

    Enjoy your lynchin’

    Bet Osama is laughing his ass off tonight.

    [The Angry Left reveals the depth of its concern for the victims of one of the most bloodthirsty dictators still alive in this millenium (until tonight!). — P]

    Neville Chamberlain (80a4fa)

  28. […] More: Michelle Malkin. Wizbang Hang Right Politics Patterico Rhymes with Right The Wide Awake Cafe Ace of Spades e-claire Dr. Sanity Mudville Gazette […]

    The Anchoress » Saddam Dead - Dearborn Dances (1b383c)

  29. No, but Virginians were. Perhaps even 72 of them.

    Lurking Observer (9f6eea)

  30. Shorter Pat – I love me some new Saddams.

    Macswain (5b310d)

  31. Hehe, P…

    Not angry, just bemused.

    Osama, Saddam…close enough. right?

    [Excellent point! As it happens, I never take any satisfaction in justice for evil men if they’re not Osama. When I convict a criminal, I always ask the judge to let him go, because he’s not Osama. — P]

    Neville Chamberlain (80a4fa)

  32. Pat,

    It was the left that built the strong case against Saddam on Halabja and the Anfal campaign when the Reagan administration was looking the other way and, in fact, trying to blame Halabja on the Iranians.

    Executing Saddam on the weak case of Dujail through a kangaroo court sends the wrong message … all other countries will now be able to invoke the Saddam standard … which we set way too low. But Dawa – and you – got your hangin. Enjoy.

    [Sweet. Every time a genocidal maniac is executed, it brings me satisfaction. Actually, it doesn’t happen often, so this is extra nice. — P]

    Macswain (5b310d)

  33. Aaah, there’s that word again…evil.

    Spending a trillion bucks and the lives of tens of thousands of innocents just to hang a caged old man…good?

    Religion is such a hard concept to grasp for us po atheists…

    [You seem to have a bizarre fixation on religion, for some inexplicable reason. — P]

    Neville Chamberlain (80a4fa)

  34. These CNN bozos are totally insane. Just show us the hanging video without all this dogooder psychobabble voodoo censorship dogcrap. Good freaking grief these CNN broadcasters are the most incompetent presenters of information on Earth.

    Wesson (c20d28)

  35. You know, this is all Bush. “NBC will not show the actual execution.” George W. Bush really needs to get off his fucking Christmas vacation Texas ass and start running this war, reconstruction, and this country. Today, GWB may have lost me, the last person I know still with him. Of course, he probably doesn’t care.

    Wesson (c20d28)

  36. Is it really that difficult for the President of the United States to tell 5 people to OBTAIN the execution video and post it to YouTube ASAP? At some point even Republicans need to ask for results. GWB is mentally asleep. Mentally dead.

    Wesson (c20d28)

  37. Wow, that was rather poorly staged.

    Saddam looked brave and the Official Iraqi Executioners looked like just another gang of crazy Islamic killers.

    Couldn’t they at least find someone who was willing to do the deed without wearing a ski mask?

    Neville Chamberlain (80a4fa)

  38. Executioners have [i]always[/i] worn hoods. Executioners who have cause to fear lethal retaliation have extra reasons to do so.

    I seriously doubt that very many “tens of thousands” of lives were lost in freeing the Iraqi people from this monster’s tyranny, but I’m absolutely positive that he had killed hundreds of thousands, and highly confident that if we hadn’t acted, he’d have killed hundreds of thousands more, not all of them his own countrymen.

    Your namesake also lacked any sense of proportion or history, “Neville.”

    Beldar (cb73ea)

  39. Sigh. Sorry, Patterico, I should know better than to use square brackets, and I should know better than to feed the trolls.

    Beldar (cb73ea)

  40. Darleem linked us to the rantings of the commenters on Kos. I did look, though certainly not at all 473 comments (the number when I checked), because they were all mind-numbingly similar. No original thought at all, just rage.

    Perhaps I’d have more respect for their intellectual acumen if they had command of more than one adjective when they get angry.

    Dana (556f76)

  41. There is actually a complaint on LA’s site (though not by LA, who occasionally comments here, himself), saying:

    well, the genocide charges against him–like the ones in the anfal trial–will be dropped now. that is, by definition, escaping justice for those other crimes.

    I guess getting hanged (hung?) for one crime is an interesting, and effective, way of getting away with another!

    Dana (556f76)

  42. World Exclusive: Saddam Hussein’s Last Interview…

    Yes, it’s another world exclusive: Hussein’s last moments on Earth – and first moments in the after-life……

    Doug Ross (59ce3a)

  43. “Sic semper tyrannis” is attributed to Brutus at the assassination of Julius Caesar. But the design of Virginia’s State Seal is extra cool.

    nk (956ea1)

  44. See provocateur’s post about Saddam’s execution

    http://provocateurjim.blogspot.com/

    Jungle Jim (27136c)

  45. Gee, do all your Leftie commentators remember during the ’80’s and the 90’s (actually Gulf War I) always saying that we shouldn’t deal with dictators but America should spread Democracy? Now that America has tried to bring some semblence of sanity in the ME (Saddam funded suicide Bombers in Israel 4 years leading up to Gulf War II), the Democrats say we should prop up dictators. An evil man is dead, yet the Democrats don’t believe non-white skinned people should have Democracy or capitalism. I guess “politics does [not] stop at the Waters edge” if you are a Democrat. Here should be the Democrats policy for their 2008 convention: If you are a non-white country, you don’t need Democracy or Capitalism, we (meaning Democrats) know better.

    JSF (a90377)

  46. [Pointless antagonistic comment deleted. — Mgmt.]

    David Ehrenstein (7a0a1d)

  47. Neville – Get off the computer and start wiping those DVDs now!

    Uncle Herb (b86663)

  48. P.S. Ill keep my eyes peeled for the video that Big Media thinks you shouldnt see.

    There’s lots of things broadcast doesn’t show — like nipples and violence and dirty words. Is this some sort of coverup?

    [Nah, just paternalism. — P]

    actus (10527e)

  49. Drudge has this link, which I can’t get to load right now, probably due to Drudge-traffic.

    Xrlq (aa20a5)

  50. Rather than add snide little comments to others’ post Pat, why don’t you ever respond to or answer substantive points? I don’t rant I present history and data. You avoid it. Darleen at least tries, but she repeats herself. The US supports those whom it can use. It has aided and supported murderers on every continent as have other powers. France’s behavior in Rwanda was vile, but our record is much bigger. We’ve backed murderous dictatorships throughout South and Central America, supported coups in the Middle East, Saddam and Reza Pahlavi. And of course “A land without people for a people without land” which was a lie. And you defend the lie. The Israeli’s just announced another settlement. And you give the Simi Valley defense of the Israelis. I wonder how you were on the ANC back in the 70’s. I wonder what you thought of Somoza or Ríos Montt. There’s a rapist and a murderer for you. Were you protesting back then? Hw about Savak, a nice bunch of guys. We organized and trained them.
    You don’t give statistics, or numbers, or history, or details. You pontificate. And if you pontificate you better be infallible, and you’re not.

    I wish you were principled, then we’d disagree. I wish you cared as much for human as you pretend to. But you don’t.

    [For anyone whose purpose is to discuss issues, I’ll engage in substantive debate. Those who simply engage in personal attacks on me or my commenters get the snide comments (or get ignored), So far, you and your lot merit only the snide comments. To the extent you try to make a substantive point here, it’s enough to say that it’s irrelevant what my position or others’ position might be on Bad Guys x, y, and z. I don’t have to take some quiz to know Saddam got what he deserved, and sensible people should take satisfaction in his execution. — P]

    AF (8f7ccc)

  51. @#46 Pat:

    They’re pulling trap doors in Bagdad and here as well. Not with the same permanance of result of course, but a damn good start.

    Way to go.

    Ms. Judged (f2e636)

  52. Gee, Patterico, don’t you understand AF’s point? Unless a nation has never engaged in conduct of which AF disapproves because it less than 100% moral (as AF sees it), that nation is barred forever from denouncing, attacking, defeating or executing anyone. I mean, we were allies with Stalin, so where did we get off with that Nuremburg stuff anyway? Golly, a seventh grader would endorse AF’s point.

    SmokeVanThorn (b86663)

  53. Speaking as both an opponent of our adventures in Iraq and a categorical opponent of the death penalty, this is nonetheless a positive thing. Let us make the most of it.

    Happy new year.

    Bobby (418ddb)

  54. Patterico, when AF says —

    The US supports those whom it can use. It has aided and supported murderers on every continent as have other powers. Frances behavior in Rwanda was vile, but our record is much bigger. Weve backed murderous dictatorships throughout South and Central America, supported coups in the Middle East, Saddam and Reza Pahlavi. And of course A land without people for a people without land which was a lie. And you defend the lie. The Israelis just announced another settlement. And you give the Simi Valley defense of the Israelis. I wonder how you were on the ANC back in the 70s. I wonder what you thought of Somoza or Ríos Montt. Theres a rapist and a murderer for you. Were you protesting back then? Hw about Savak, a nice bunch of guys. We organized and trained them.

    he’s not being snide, he’s being specific. I think his comment merits a serious, considered response. And Jeanne Kirkpatrick’s “Dictatorships and Double-Stabdards” provides ample contextualization, IMO.

    [It’s a personal attack that merits no response. And you didn’t quote the part where he questions my honesty. — P]

    David Ehrenstein (7a0a1d)

  55. Think about that photo of Rumsfeld and his shiteating grin shaking Saddam’s hand back in 1983.

    Saddam is just Colonel Kurtz. His methods became unsound. So he was terminated.

    We’re already in search of another dictator we can use to cover our exit as even leaked White House memos are saying al-maliki isn’t brutal enough.

    America’s proudest moment? This ain’t it.

    Martin Morgan (ac0920)

  56. And by the way there’s a new poll out:
    More troops unhappy with Bush’s course in Iraq.

    Here’s one question:

    We currently have 145,000 troops in Iraq and Kuwait. How many troops do you think we should have there?

    Zero 13%
    0-50,000 7%
    50,000-144,000 6%
    145,000 13%
    146,000-200,000 22%
    200,000+ 16%
    No opinion/don’t know 23%

    I don’t necessarily believe the troops are the only or best judge, but it’s important to take their opinions into account.

    AF (8f7ccc)

  57. [Nah, just paternalism. — P]

    But thats been something that broadcast has done for a while. See the ‘dick in a box’ video? They released a web version. They know the limitations of the broadcast medium. I don’t think its so much big media / old media. I think its more about how broadcast has been made to operate and how it does operate. Their mindset has been built in a regulatory regime. One they challenge and push, true, but also one that fines them millions for a nipple.

    But then again, not much you can say for snuff films. Specially if people are going to be able find it elsewhere. I can see someone not wanting to have much to do with it. Specially when it has very little news value — compare it to a guncamer video of a US helicopter, or a sniper. That has more news value in that it shows us how operations there work. Not so much with an execution.

    actus (10527e)

  58. [Its a personal attack that merits no response. And you didnt quote the part where he questions my honesty. P]

    And I think you’re being overly sensitive. The part I quote does merit response in that it’s the lingering question that arises in the wake of this entire affair. Why not forget who asked it and answer it anyway?

    [We could have a discussion about when if ever we should support dictators for realpolitik reasons. That’s not what was asked. I was asked, essentially, aren’t I a big dishonest hypocrite? That’s not worth my time to respond to, so stop asking me to. AF is a typical example of the sort of juvenile debater you find all over the Internet. I have a crew of lefties here that is better, and engages in respectful debate. They’re worth my time. AF? Not so much. — P]

    David Ehrenstein (7a0a1d)

  59. I dont have to take some quiz to know Saddam got what he deserved, and sensible people should take satisfaction in his execution. P

    Thats supposing sensible people are ok with the death penalty. And that their ‘sense’ is removed from the context of this war. Sensible people see saddam facing justice as a plus. Sensible people also see the costs of this. Sensible people are likely to disagree on how the costs balance the benefit.

    [I totally agree. Saying that it’s a good thing that is happening is not the same as saying it was worth it. But if you can’t see it as a good thing, there’s something wrong with you. — P]

    actus (10527e)

  60. So 51% of the military surveyed believe that the US needs the same number or MORE troops in Kuwait and Iraq? Doesn’t that suggest part of reason some are dissatsified with the handling of the war in Iraq is the feeling that its conduct has not been sufficiently aggressive?

    BTW, one should also consider that only half of the persons surveyed stated that they have been deployed to Iraq. And how about their views of Congressional and media support for the military?I guess the vice president of the Middle School Progressives Club doesn’t think those are worth mentioning.

    SmokeVanThorn (b86663)

  61. David sez

    And of course “A land without people for a people without land” which was a lie. And you defend the lie.

    David is taking up the mantra of the anti-Semitic historical revisionists, such as IHR

    Color me unsurprised.

    Darleen (543cb7)

  62. Darleen’s personal attacks are not worthy of reply.

    David Ehrenstein (7a0a1d)

  63. But if you can’t see it as a good thing, there’s something wrong with you

    The only problem i think is that ‘good thing’ might be an ambiguous term. In the sense that ‘on balance, since 2003, this has been a good thing, weighing all the costs’ is one meaning of ‘good thing.’ Its a benefit in the cost / benefit analisys. No doubt. But sensible people may think that ‘good thing’ means that cost-benefit analysis.

    But if you are against the death penalty, then no, you’re not going to see it as that much of a good thing — on either definition. And that’s a sensible position.

    actus (10527e)

  64. David’s been outted…and retreats.

    Smart move.

    Darleen (543cb7)

  65. Comment #59:

    It was worth it. There is no proportionality argument here. Or cost-benefit analysis. We are not accountants balancing books. We are human beings who no longer tolerated a monster among us. That Baathist left-overs, Al Qaeda, and Iranian-sponsored power grabbers are intent on spilling their countrymen’s blood is an entirely separate issue. I look forward to the hangman keeping his appointment with them too.

    nk (5e5670)

  66. Back up the truck

    AF made the original “Israel = lie” comment and David just supported the idea that it merited serious consideration.

    Darleen (543cb7)

  67. does every damn thing have to be the occasion for america-bashing? the anti-democratic things we’ve done in central and south america, iran, iraq and elsewhere are already well-known. we are the modern rome, and empire isn’t always pretty. sure, the current iraq government has puppetesque elements reminiscent of nguyen van thieu, but i don’t think we dictated this hanging to them, they did it with relish, as they would have done anyway if they got the chance, even without our help. look at all the arabs in dearborn, michigan, who could have freely protested this without getting killed, instead, they celebrated new year’s eve two nights early. humans, not just americans, have a vicious predatory aspect about them. it is jejune to dwell on american predation while pretending that saddam was a martyred saint, as it is to express this view in a space known to be frequented by the outspoken, neoconservative breed of animals who will flame you and your mothers too, and then exhibit surprise when they do.

    for 2007, i resolve to lay down my arms and meet the world in christlike love, compassion, forgiveness, humility and submission……

    if and only if i can be convinced that everybody else will do likewise at the same time, so as not to put me and my friends at unreasonable risk. absent that conviction, i expect to be pretty much the same as i am in 2006.

    assistant devil's advocate (32e9c4)

  68. That Baathist left-overs, Al Qaeda, and Iranian-sponsored power grabbers are intent on spilling their countrymen’s blood is an entirely separate issue.

    It’s entirely separate in that it was the quite easily predictable consequence of taking out saddam. A cost.

    actus (10527e)

  69. Darlen loves to traffic in the libel that everyone who criticizes Israel is an anti-semite.

    Especially if they’re half-Jewish like me.

    Darleen, consider yourself “outed” as a steaming nit.

    David Ehrenstein (7a0a1d)

  70. But it is fallacious to imply that the invasion was the proximate cause of their bloodlust. If they have enough contact with reality to operate an AK or to set a bomb, they have enough free will to refrain from doing it. If you are telling me that Saddam Hussein was not the only “Sower of Thunder” (great book by Robert E. Howard BTW) in Iraq but only the biggest, keeping the smaller “sowers” under control, my answer is as before: Their turn with the hempen necktie should come too. We did not make them murderers. They made themselves murderers.

    nk (35ba30)

  71. Darleen, consider yourself “outed” as a steaming nit.

    With a name like Ehrenstein, I would have pegged you as an east-coast liberal secular ACLU lawyer. But not as a jew.

    actus (10527e)

  72. If you are telling me that Saddam Hussein was not the only “Sower of Thunder” (great book by Robert E. Howard BTW) in Iraq but only the biggest, keeping the smaller “sowers” under control, my answer is as before: Their turn with the hempen necktie should come too. We did not make them murderers. They made themselves murderers.

    I thought that saddam hussein’s regime was a civil war. Certainly no-one makes anyone else murderers. No-one made willie horton a killer. But someone did let him out on furlough. And that act had consequences.

    actus (10527e)

  73. Color me amused.

    The person who first throws out the “neo-fascist” trope now claims that other people’s comments “are not worthy of reply.”

    Heh. Indeed.

    Lurking Observer (9fde72)

  74. And that’s separate issue number three. Where I refrain from giving an opinion because I have no clue as to how to keep “man from being wolf to man”. Maybe all we can do is kill the wolves if we have the means and the opportunity.

    nk (956ea1)

  75. Darleen, I think you mean…revisionists such as Gush Shalom

    And I spent enough time making arguments and linking to things, reports and articles, and being ignored by Pat to have the right to make a few snide comments of my own. I think he’s happier arguing with the Fabulous” David E!.
    DE’s politics are self-absorbed as Darleen’s. The rest of the world is a figment of their imaginations; though DE is more generous, and that’s a big plus. Still, you deserve each other.

    “But in the grand scheme of things, this is a huge step forward. When the history of the war is written, this will be one of the pages.”
    It will be a footnote. To say otherwise is absurd.

    And I have no sympathy for Saddam Hussein.

    [A little gay-bashing to go with your other personal attacks. Sweet! — P]

    AF (8f7ccc)

  76. Or perhaps Neturai karta?

    AF, meanwhile, makes the interesting claim that, if he is ignored, then he has the “right to make a few snide comments of my own.”

    I believe my 4 year old has expressed herself similarly, albeit more by her actions than by a claim to a right.

    Lurking Observer (9fde72)

  77. [A little gay-bashing to go with your other personal attacks. Sweet! — P]

    Pat, you have no idea what I like to do or whom.

    AF (8f7ccc)

  78. wow, this dust-up is hilarious!
    i disagree with patterico that referring to someone as “the fabulous” constitutes gay-bashing. can’t straight people like me be fabulous too?
    moreover, it was only yesterday that mr. ehrenstein, the alleged target of the gay-bashing, made a disgusting comment about darleen, involving batteries and dildoes (#29 on the “within hours” thread), and in #31, also in reference to her, linked to a pic of a fire island fruit fly.
    is that gay-bashing? maybe, but i was one of the few people in my area who voted against oregon’s recent gay marriage prohibition. the strongest players can hit long balls from either side of the plate (politically, not sexually).

    [If that’s how he refers to himself, then I was wrong to make the accusation. Doesn’t make AF worth responding to. — P]

    assistant devil's advocate (32e9c4)

  79. David and even Neville can manage to stay on subject but all AF has accomplished here with his apocryphal historical trivia is bring into question whether he is an American.

    nk (54c569)

  80. “fabulous” is a term the man uses for himself, dear.

    “apocryphal historical trivia”

    wow.

    AF (8f7ccc)

  81. Indeed I do.

    [Appy polly logies to AF then. — P]

    David Ehrenstein (7a0a1d)

  82. What would happen if the millicents get their kroovy rookers on DE, droog? Real horroshow krasting, eh?

    Dubya (c16726)

  83. “Doesnt make AF worth responding to”
    Then don’t respond to me, respond to the the historical record
    …or correct it

    You do neither. You hide behind others’ ad hominem attacks
    but get upset about criticism I toss in at the end of a substantive comment.
    And now it’s a question of whether I’m an American.
    I’ll quit for now.

    It’s only a hobby, and it should stay that way.

    [The line about you not being an American was out of line, but frankly, you and others like you are bringing some of that on yourself with your attitude. I’m not responding to your little comments as you have already claimed I’m dishonest; given that, why would you care what I have to say anyway? — P]

    AF (8f7ccc)

  84. the Democrats say we should prop up dictators

    No, you shouldn’t. You also shouldn’t prop up Al-Maliki, Al-Hakim, the speaker of Iraqi parliament that says that all the problems in Iraq are caused by joooos and other extreme Islamist scum that you prop up now.
    Neither can understand how you manage to feel happy about the execution video that is indistinguishable from ones produced by Al-Qaeda. With one of the executioners shouting “viva Al-Sadr” and the execution happening exactly five minutes after the beginning of Sunni’s religious holiday, the symbolism of this event is extremely depressing. The only way it could go worse is probably with Ahmadinejad holding Saddam’s head in his triumphant hands.

    These details aside, good riddance.

    NN (d035f8)

  85. Neither can understand how you manage to feel happy about the execution video that is indistinguishable from ones produced by Al-Qaeda.

    I believe Patterico is arguing that our Snuff Movies are better than theirs.

    David Ehrenstein (7a0a1d)

  86. “With one of the executioners shouting “viva Al-Sadr”…”

    How did they get a Spanish-speaking Shiite executioner in there?

    Or is there a distinction between Bush Derangement Syndrome and Tertiary Syphillis?

    nk (54c569)

  87. “I believe Patterico is arguing that our Snuff Movies are better than theirs.”

    What a way to lose what little credibility you had, David.

    nk (54c569)

  88. Patterico sez: “Does this mean that Iraq is fine now, or that we are at some kind of a turning point? Does it mean that Iraq will be different tomorrow in any perceptible way?

    Of course not.”

    Why is the lefty Patterico trying to minimize the event?

    m.croche (ded48b)

  89. What a way to lose what little credibility you had, David.

    Credibility with whom? Never had any in here with anyone, and never will.

    David Ehrenstein (7a0a1d)

  90. How did they get a Spanish-speaking Shiite executioner in there?

    He actually said “long live Moqtada Al-Sadr”. But that doesn’t mean he was English-speaking. “Long live Moqtada Al-Sadr” is a translation, just as “viva Al-Sadr”. Is it really hard to understand?

    Or is there a distinction between Bush Derangement Syndrome and Tertiary Syphillis?

    What does this have to do with Bush? And do you feel you didn’t make a point if you’ve not made some outrageous personal attack?

    I believe Patterico is arguing that our Snuff Movies are better than theirs.

    Well, these are, sadly, not “our Snuff Movies” unless you think that Moqtada is “our guy”.
    Personally, I don’t have any real problems with “Snuff Movies”, it just the way this execution underscored “there are new bastards in town” point that is so troubling.
    In retrospect, it really seems that the right thing to do was just kill Saddam the moment he was found. This “fair trial” thing doesn’t really fool people in Iraq, and just the fact that he was alive all this time was a major fuel for the insurgency.

    NN (d035f8)

  91. Well, these are, sadly, not “our Snuff Movies” unless you think that Moqtada is “our guy”.

    Saddam, after his capture, was always under control of U.S. authorities.

    Personally, I don’t have any real problems with “Snuff Movies”,

    No surprise there.

    Did this one get you off?

    David Ehrenstein (7a0a1d)

  92. You know, David, I don’t think I’ve ever read anything that made me feel such pity for another person.

    Perhaps b/c I’ve never seen such a sad comment posted so directly.

    I sincerely hope you have a happier new year, David, and that you find something more worthwhile to do w/ your time and your life.

    Lurking Observer (9fde72)

  93. Ah yes “pity” — the Neo-Fascist’s compassion.

    David Ehrenstein (7a0a1d)

  94. Saddam, after his capture, was always under control of U.S. authorities.

    Nevertheless, the thugs in the ski masks that executed Saddam were not American, so you can’t call this “our Snuff Movie”. As far as I understand, Saddam didn’t really resent being under control of U.S. authorities, he would hardly survive being under Iraqi’s control for too long.

    NN (f82c0b)

  95. NN,

    I apologize.

    nk (77d95e)

  96. Is it possible to be less self aware than Ehrenstein?

    SmokeVanThorn (b86663)

  97. >Nevertheless, the thugs in the ski masks that executed Saddam were not American, so you can’t call this “our Snuff Movie”.

    Rather like Bunaraku puppet theater, don’t you think?

    They were puppets doing our bidding. This was our show from first to last. Mission Accomplished.

    David Ehrenstein (7a0a1d)

  98. They were puppets doing our bidding. This was our show from first to last. Mission Accomplished.

    Well, if they were really American puppets, the mission could probably be accomplished by now. In fact they are mostly Iranian puppets, or just thugs with their own local interests.

    NN (f82c0b)

  99. “Credibility with whom? Never had any in here with anyone, and never will.”

    I have always debated you fairly.

    nk (77d95e)

  100. “Debate”? What Debate?

    David Ehrenstein (7a0a1d)

  101. According to some reports, saddam’s last words were “…there is no god but my god and muhammet is his prophet…”

    Funny how these bastards suddenly discover religion when they’re about to find out if there really is anything to it, or when it serves to stir up the masses for their purposes.

    Dubya (c16726)

  102. Even demons believe in God, Dubya. That we may have the sensibility to know that we are sinful and disobedient has nothing to do with our belief.

    nk (47858f)

  103. Who but the demon would know what demons believe? Who but the believer knows what he believes? That someone “knows” or feels they are sinful implicitly states their belief.

    Sin == feelings of guilt and psychopaths and sociopaths by definition do not feel guilt.

    More likely saddam felt he needed some “insurance” in case there really is an allah.

    Dubya (c16726)

  104. i’m laughing my ass off at you people. you’re invoking gods and demons now. the notion of deities external from you and i and nature is simply psychotic.
    people are big rats on two legs, some of those rats get to be bigger than others, recently a great big rat named saddam hussein established absolute dominion over his nest, which continued for awhile until the biggest rat in the world, head of the biggest nest, saw fit for some reason i know not but can only extrapolate (rats need oil) took down the great big rat. a number of smaller rats are waxing wroth over this, but here’s a rat more focused on getting his cheese than bemoaning the fate of despotic rats over the horizon where they can’t be seen from here, dead or alive. local female rats are selectively encouraged to hold me close against the cruel vagaries of a rat, rat, rat, rat world!

    assistant devil's advocate (11871d)

  105. Patterico,

    I enjoy debate and, like you, I especially like dialogue from thoughtful liberals. In addition, I rarely endorse banning commenters and I’m not doing that now. However, I hope you will encourage David E. to stop dropping the fascist bomb. It’s tiresome.

    DRJ (51a774)

  106. Still, the contrast of the various Christian sects are interesting, ada.

    I assume the Christians cheering on the lynching of Saddam aren’t the same flavor as the Amish who forgave the killer of their children recently.

    As an atheist, the Amish reaction disturbed me so much I was tempted to look into their faith.

    The bloodthisty cheerleaders reconfirmed my opinion that we are nothing more than animals, though.

    All in all, an interesting year for Iraq and religion.

    Neville Chamberlain (80a4fa)

  107. But in the grand scheme of things, this is a huge step forward.

    A corner has been turned, right?

    jpe (cee82d)

  108. A corner has been turned, right?

    That’s exactly what anyone reading my post would conclude — if they were stupid or illiterate.

    Patterico (906bfc)

  109. jpe,

    Someone who is *not* stupid or illiterate might have noticed this:

    Does this mean that Iraq is fine now, or that we are at some kind of a turning point? Does it mean that Iraq will be different tomorrow in any perceptible way?

    Of course not.

    If you were here I would grab your head, force it into the computer screen, make you read that out loud, and ask you what the [expletive deleted] it means.

    As it is, I’ll simply mock you for being clueless.

    Patterico (906bfc)

  110. Well,

    I does mean we can’t put Saddam back in charge of Iraq…probably our most viable option up until this morning…

    Neville Chamberlain (80a4fa)

  111. No, you mock him because you can’t answer his question.

    David Ehrenstein (7a0a1d)

  112. You’re illiterate too, eh, Ehrenstein?

    Then let me answer it clearly:

    No.

    As I already said in the post, as is evident to anyone who can read.

    Patterico (906bfc)

  113. Patterico,

    You are trying to talk sense to morons who think all people are animals and sneer at the condemnation of the murderers of children.

    Morons,

    Bringing Sending a murderous monster to justice Hell is a a good thing even if it does not imediately provide heated bathrooms, hot running water and comfortable shoes for everybody.

    nk (5e5670)

  114. Not illiterate.

    Ill-tempered.

    David Ehrenstein (7a0a1d)

  115. Kinda sends the wrong message when we’re trying to convince people to stop executing our troops and Iraqi civilians, nk.

    Neville Chamberlain (80a4fa)

  116. I had this discussion with actus, Neville. I have no idea how to prevent murderers from being murderers other than to incapacitate them with death or imprisonment. And I don’t think your ideas of appeasing them are any better than mine.

    nk (5e5670)

  117. Appeasing them, nk?

    We turned their country into hell on earth…

    Neville Chamberlain (80a4fa)

  118. Well, there’s no reason why you should have read my exchange with actus. Saddam turned that country into a hell on earth. A small murderous minority of Baathist left-overs, Al Qaeda and Iran-sponsored Shiite power-grabbers are intent on keeping their country a hell on earth. America is as much responsible for their murderousness as you and I, personally, are responsible for the murderousness of the armed robber who will kill a 7/11 clerk for the $40.00 in the cash drawer.

    nk (5e5670)

  119. I disagree, nk.

    I feel America bears all the responsibility for what has happened in Iraq since we invaded it.

    We are as much in control of Iraq as Saddam was during his reign…

    Neville Chamberlain (80a4fa)

  120. Fair enough. We can agree to disagree right there. (I hate those Atrios-type threads where there are 300 comments between two people flaming each other.)

    But to the bare bones of our host’s post: The execution of Saddam Hussein is a good thing. Even if it is no more than a punctuation mark in a sad footnote of the history of the world.

    nk (5e5670)

  121. So Iraq joins the barbarous group of countries that still executes people: Iran, Saudi Arabia, China and…America.

    Bravo!

    Neville Chamberlain (80a4fa)

  122. @neville:
    japan just hanged four people in one day, you forgot about them. somebody help me find the key to my toyota!

    assistant devil's advocate (f13f2e)

  123. Now, now, Neville. You’re starting a debate on the death penalty, I just poured the last of my bottle of wine into my glass (my wife won’t let me drink anything harder anymore) and it’s almost 2:00 a.m. where I am and I have to work tomorrow (don’t ask). Let’s leave it to our host to entertain a discussion on the death penalty when he wants to use his bandwidth for that purpose (and hopefully when my wife lets me have a little Jameson’s again).

    nk (5e5670)

  124. America is as much responsible for their murderousness as you and I, personally, are responsible for the murderousness of the armed robber who will kill a 7/11 clerk for the $40.00 in the cash drawer.

    Wrong. America is responsible for: de-Baathification, dissolution of Iraqi army, the bright idea of brining in Chalabi who had a bright idea of brining Moqtada into politics, bringing goons into power in the Interim Government, deepening sectarian divide by making the sect the basis for power-sharing, looking the other side while Ministry of Interior was turning into Ministry of Death Squads, pretending that sectarian constitution is in fact “democratic constitution”, even considering “the 80 percent solution”, calling Al-Maliki “the right guy for Iraq” and many many other things. At the current moment, America is responsible for giving weapons and training to the people that do ethnic cleansing.
    Some people in Iraq have a crazy notion that turning Iraq into chaos was the original idea. And the fact that some incredibly stupid guy at Fox News says almost the same thing doesn’t help much.

    NN (d035f8)

  125. Real video of the Saddam Hussein execution is posted at http://www.saddamned.com/

    Tom G (722ebe)

  126. A corner has been turned, right?

    That’s exactly what anyone reading my post would conclude — if they were stupid or illiterate.

    and if we keep turning corners, we’ll end up going in circles. Instead of being a corner, it might be just a comma.

    actus (84e551)

  127. saddam is a stupid paki an is deserved 2 die

    benijemin clay (5fb7ad)

  128. So Iraq joins the barbarous group of countries that still executes people: Iran, Saudi Arabia, China and…America.

    Join them? Iraq was already part of the group, long before 2003.

    Steverino (d27168)

  129. “Your stupid Paki minds! Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!” — Plan 9 From Fallujah

    David Ehrenstein (7a0a1d)

  130. This is a good start–but I’m saving my celebrations for the day Pinch Sulzberg and his fellow traitors are swinging at the end of a rope—what do we have to do–wait until they have actually SUCCEEDED in helping their murder-cult friends detonate a nuclear device here?

    TheManTheMyth (56001e)

  131. #

    #

    This is a good start–but I’m saving my celebrations for the day Pinch Sulzberg and his fellow traitors are swinging at the end of a rope—what do we have to do–wait until they have actually SUCCEEDED in helping their murder-cult friends detonate a nuclear device here?

    doesn’t malkin have a whole book or project called “unhinged”? you should talk to her.

    actus (84e551)

  132. Weekend Wingnut Roundup – Gallows Humor Edition…

    So the Dear Leader finally showed up his Daddy – Saddam is dead. What do you suppose the wingnuts have to say about that? Ace of Spades – lookit here … I found a picture of Kofi Annan with Saddam!All…

    AGITPROP: Version 3.0, Featuring Blogenfreude (72c8fd)

  133. […] UPDATE: Some commenters are objecting that this is hardly a universal view. Fair enough. But some have certainly advanced it. Jonathan Chait had a column in the L.A. Times titled Bring Back Saddam Hussein, which some people believed was Swiftian irony, because they hadn’t read it. Jonah Goldberg said: no, don’t bring back Saddam! Give us a Pinochet! — a silly suggestion which isn’t much different. And at least one commenter on this site (our friend Neville Chamberlain) has said restoring Saddam was our best option until he was killed. But OK, I’ll grant you, these folks do not make up the entirety of the elite. For that reason I have added “[in this case some of]” to the first sentence of the post. […]

    Patterico’s Pontifications » Accepted Wisdom™: The Saddam Nostalgia Edition (421107)

  134. I am greatly saddened at the death of one of my greatest heroes, Saddam Hussein. He truly was a world’s stateman of the first class. Once people of conscience get off their high horse and do a little research I am sure that history will paint a totally different picture of the man.

    larry robinson (9f37aa)


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