Patterico's Pontifications

8/25/2023

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 8:39 am



[guest post by Dana]

Let’s go!

First news item

Ahead of Trump surrender, Republicans opened an investigation into Fani Willis:

The Republican-led House Judiciary Committee opened an investigation into Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis Thursday over whether her prosecution of former President Trump is “politically motivated.”

In a letter to Willis announcing the probe, Judiciary Committee Chair Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) asked Willis to turn over a series of documents to the committee by Sept. 7.

State of play: “Your indictment and prosecution implicate substantial federal interests, and the circumstances surrounding your actions raise serious concerns about whether they are politically motivated,” Jordan wrote in the letter.

Jordan added that it was “noteworthy” that Willis had launched a reelection website that highlighted her investigation of Trump prior to announcing the indictment.

It’s become common practice for House Republicans to go after any individual or agency that attempts to hold Donald Trump accountable. So, no surprise here.

Second news item

After Wagner leader Yevgeny Prigozhin was assassinated, Vladimir Putin, the war criminal known for being an oh-so compassionate leader, paid his respects:

Vladimir Putin has praised Yevgeny Prigozhin as a “talented businessman”, but criticised him for making “serious mistakes” in his first remarks since the Wagner leader’s death.

“I knew Prigozhin for a long time, from the early 1990s. He had a difficult path and made serious mistakes in his life. But he got results – for himself, and when I asked him,” Putin said in a televised address.

The Russian leader expressed his condolences to the victims of the plane crash, which occured on Wednesday evening in the Tver region north-west of Moscow. A total of 10 people died, including six passengers and three crew members.

Putin said that the Wagner members killed in the incident had made a “significant contribution to our common cause of fighting the neo-Nazi regime in Ukraine”.

Putin did not comment on the cause of the crash, and said they would have to await the outcome of an official investigation.

[Narrator: The Kremlin says that Putin didn’t order the plane crash that killed Prigozhin.]

Ah:

Additionally: “According to the VChK-OGPU Telegram channel, a source says that “Prigozhin was sure that Putin would forgive him everything and was not afraid of anything. He said he knew a lot…””

Third news item

This is an embarrassment for the Republican Party:

“You all signed a pledge to support the Republican nominee,” said moderator Brett Baier. “If former President Trump is convicted in a court of law, would you still support him as your party’s choice? Please raise your hand if you would.”

Former UN Ambassador Nikki Haley, South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott, entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy, North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and former Vice President Mike Pence raised their hands, saying they would support Trump as the party’s nominee – even if he was convicted.

Former Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchison did not raise his hand and former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie made a hand motion and later clarified he was not raising his hand in support of Trump.

To his credit, Chris Christie, who was booed for not raising his hand, hit the nail on the head:

“Someone’s got to stop normalizing this conduct,” said Christie. “Whether or not you believe that the criminal charges are right or wrong, the conduct is beneath the office of President of the United States.” Christie was met with both cheers and boos, to which he responded: “That’s the great thing about this country, booing is allowed — but it doesn’t change the truth.”

The chaos that the modern Republican Party has embraced and normalized with Trump will be to its everlasting shame.

Fourth news item

Chinese diplomat in New York endorses forced assimilation of Tibetan children:

Chinese consul-general Huang Ping, Beijing’s most senior diplomat in New York, this week defended the Chinese Communist Party’s forced assimilation of Tibetan children.

A report by the Tibet Action Institute, a nonprofit focused on human rights in the region, recently published a report detailing Beijing’s policy of forcing children to attend Chinese-government boarding schools, where they are effectively stripped of their Tibetan identity and required to parrot CCP propaganda. Estimates say that some 1 million Tibetan children have been forced into the schools.

Unbelievably, the report notes that while Secretary of State Blinken announced that the State Department would impose visa restrictions on officials involved in the re-education campaign, “Earlier this month, Huang Ping appeared on the same stage with over a dozen prominent New York Democrats, including Mayor Eric Adams and Representative Grace Meng, at a festival hosted by Hong Kong government agencies in Flushing, Queens. Earlier this year, he marched with Adams and Governor Kathy Hochul at a parade in Chinatown, and the office of Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg held a ceremony with the Chinese consulate-general to mark the repatriation of looted antiquities to China.”

Not a good look, Democrats. Not a good look at all.

Fifth news item

Speaking of Democrats, at least one is saying the quiet part out loud:

Dean Phillips is getting a little fed up with his party. The third-term Democratic congressman is on a “crusade,” he says. “I’m saying we need presidential diversity on the stage.”…Phillips has had a lot more media hits in recent weeks ever since he said Democrats need to challenge President Joe Biden in the presidential primary. In his words, he’s “just giving voice to private conversations” (he wouldn’t say with whom). The Democratic Party—and the country—shouldn’t just gamble on an octogenarian with a roughly 42% approval rating to beat Donald Trump, Phillips tells me.

“I came from the business world, and anybody in business knows you don’t just produce a product and then hope there’s a market for it,” he says. “What we tend to do as Democrats is kind of identify the product, and then try to convince people to buy it. I’m not trying to compare people to products, but that’s the analogy. And that’s what happened in 2016.”

“I love Joe Biden. I think he’s an extraordinary man. I think he saved the country. His policies, I voted for every single one of them, and I’ve helped market them. [I am] not someone who’s objecting to the past. I’m simply making an argument for the future. And I believe that we should, if he’s intent on being one of the products, I just think we should also offer some others.”

Phillips’s primary concern is Biden’s age. “Age is the main issue in this election, because we have two men who are older than Bill Clinton, who was president when I was in college.”

Sixth news item

But of course:

The former president left the Fulton County Jail at 7:55 p.m. Thursday, and for the first time in his four indictments on felony charges, authorities took — and released — Trump’s mug shot. By 9:22 p.m., the Trump Save America Joint Fundraising Committee was selling T-shirts, mugs, beverage coolers, bumper stickers and other merchandise with Trump’s face and the words “never surrender.”

The mug shot products range from $12 for a bumper sticker to $36 for long-sleeve T-shirts.

Seventh news item

Sure, keep giving parents more reasons to pull their kids out of public schools:

A federal court in Maryland decided Thursday that parents can’t opt their kids out of reading books with LGBTQ+ content in Montgomery County Schools.

In Tamer Mahmoud v. Monica B. McKnight, parents sought to reinstate a MCPS policy that would allow them to opt their children out of reading and discussing books with LGBTQ+ characters in elementary schools. The parents argued the content in these books was a form of indoctrination that violated their families’ religious beliefs.

The court disagreed. Judge Deborah L. Boardman, a Biden appointee, concluded that the parents’ “asserted due process right to direct their children’s upbringing by opting out of a public-school curriculum that conflicts with their religious views is not a fundamental right.”

The judge denied the parents’ request for a preliminary injunction that would allow them to opt-out their kids when school begins on August 28.

Note: “The LGBTQ+ books added to the district’s curriculum are included in pre-K through eighth-grade classrooms and feature references to gay pride parades, gender transition and pronoun preference.”

Have a great weekend.

–Dana

325 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Happy Friday!

    Dana (4020dd)

  2. Dana, I wish you had posted some calming photographs. The world has gone mad.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  3. A couple years from now I expect to see news reports about the “far-right takeover” of the Montgomery County School Board.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  4. Any Republican candidate who is actually seeking the nomination, as opposed to using the process as a pulpit, has to avoid alienating the 30% of GOP voters who live and die for Donald Trump while attempting to persuade the rest. It’s called practical politics.

    They might not expect Trump to be the nominee, but they have to at least pretend that they’d support him if he was. And if he IS the nominee, they’ll have to at least go home and STFU or they’ll have no future as a Republican when the time comes to rebuild.

    The alternative is a party split. I don’t see that coming.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  5. I think Frum is absolutely correct here:

    The Trump mug shot is rapidly becoming the Che Guevara T-shirt of the far right, a way to display on your body that you reject democracy and the rule of law.

    Dana (e425d5)

  6. Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/25/2023 @ 9:11 am

    Who says the hand raisers are pretending? All of them are on record as supporting a Trump pardon and attacking the “weaponization” of government to some extent (vanity candidacies like Doug Burgum don’t count.).

    Trump must have been laughing his head off at that moment.

    Rip Murdock (6347cf)

  7. I actually more or less agree with the school board case. While I don’t think such material appropriate I also don’t believe parents should have any power to opt out of individual lessons the school plans. Public school is an all-or-nothing offer.

    Soronel Haetir (238272)

  8. It’s completely possible for there to be a legitimate case against Trump in Georgia and For there to be a legitimate reason for Congress to investigate Fani Willis. The two are not mutually exclusive. She started her investigation in February 2021, and virtually all of the evidence that she needed to indict has been available and in the public domain for years. The timing of her indictment is absolutely and blatantly politically motivated, and her shotgun approach to the indictment (indicting some federal officials for doing things that are clearly within the scope of their duties) is extremely flawed.

    There are no saints on either side of this one. Some of the charges against Trump may be justifiable, but that doesn’t mean that Willis is blameless.

    Observer (397d6a)

  9. “… a way to display on your body that you reject democracy and the rule of law.”

    Well I suppose that’s one way to look at it.

    Then again, some might think the Swamp and the Democrats have weaponized the government against the their political opponents, and see those actions as a rejection of democracy and the rule of law…

    I’m old enough to know there’s enough corruption and room for graft/grift to go around. Those in power try to keep it, and those out of power try to recapture it. But they all line their pockets along the way and piss on our heads and tell us it’s raining.

    Harvey’s Potted Plant (fb25e0)

  10. Bret Baier (01:12:05): You all signed a pledge to support the eventual Republican nominee. If former President Trump is convicted in a court of law, would you still support him as your party’s choice? Please raise your hand if you would.

    Here’s where I have to cut the candidates a little bit of slack. This was a bit of a trap by tying their answer to the pledge to support the nominee. In effect, were you lying when you said that? Now the exit from the trap is that a criminal conviction is a pretty significant change in the facts on hand…and there can be no way that a party puts forward someone found guilty of a felon who is facing prison time.

    Now how FNC did this was terrible. A more interesting question might be how the party as a whole should deal with a potential nominee who is facing prison time. No stupid hand raising that in the end doesn’t mean anything. “Support” means what exactly? It does not compel fundraising, campaigning, or even guaranteeing a vote. It’s irrelevant especially when the leading candidate would likely not take the same pledge seriously. FNC treated the whole line of questioning as a burden and irritant that had to be done as fast as possible…..

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  11. Sarah Palin, Tucker Carlson, and Donald Trump, Egging On Their Supporters:

    …………
    “………. I mean, I think those who are conducting this travesty and creating this two tier system of justice and I want to ask them, ‘What the heck do you want us to be in civil war?’ Because that’s what’s going to happen. We’re not going to keep putting up with this.” (said Sarah Palin. )

    She continued, “Eric (Bolling, host of Newsmax TV’s “The Balance”) I like that you suggested that we need to get angry. We do need to rise up and take our country back. Now, I would, um. I would say the RNC, though that’s what’s lacking when it comes to collective anger that can be healthy and it can be useful. Where is the RNC? They hold the purse strings to the party. They hold the funds that could be helping out in this situation. They have the platform and yet they’re too timid. It is a bunch of freaking RINO’s running the thing. So the RNC they better get their stuff together or have to ask them too, what do they want as an outcome of this civil war?”

    Donald Trump and Tucker Carlson on their interview on X:

    At the conclusion of the 46-minute interview, Carlson returned to the subject of potential violence. “Do you think we’re moving toward civil war?” he said. “Do you think it’s possible that there’s open conflict?”

    “I don’t know,” Trump said.

    Trump has batted away this line of questioning before in interviews since being indicted in several separate criminal cases. In a local talk radio interview in Iowa in July, host Doug Wagner repeatedly pressed Trump on the prospect of how his supporters could react if he were detained pending trial. “It’s a dangerous thing to even talk about because we do have a very passionate group of voters,” Trump said. “Nobody’s even suggested this except you.”

    Rip Murdock (6347cf)

  12. @11, this is a direct repudiation of the rule of law. An adult needs to emerge to frame the moral peril here. We either trust our justice system…or we don’t. If we don’t, then we need to decide where we go from here. Clearly Bolling, Palin, and Tucker are fanning flames. We just have to weather them.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  13. Dana, I think it’s less about Biden’s age and more about his VP, who is not ready for primetime and probably never will be. If she says “no” to a 2nd term (and it has to come from her), Biden can pick someone younger and incompetent, and he’d be a shoo-in, IMO.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  14. Palin et al. are always caterwauling about a “two-tiered system of justice.” Indeed, it is two-tiered. Any ordinary Joe who did even a fraction of what DJT has done would have been behind bars long ago. There are people languishing in jail for lesser crimes. DJT has, if anything, been treated with kid gloves.

    Roger (b8f0d1)

  15. Here’s a Ukraine update and, yes, their counteroffensive is progressing.

    hey ayden… looking for a russian “experts” take on this…
    1. ukranian commandos are in crimea
    2. long range rockets in crimea were hit
    3. russia has lost 10 times more land than they took last year
    4. russian units are refusing to move
    5. vid of russians smoking dope and refusing to take orders shows up
    6. wagner broken
    7. ukraine troops still on the left bank
    8. russian rail hacked
    9. drones over moscow every day now
    10. russian long range aircraft moved to eastern russia out of fear.
    11. crimea bridge now restricted over damage and incoming rockets.
    12. 3 more senior commanders in the russian army dead or under house arrest.
    13. the LAST major mobile reserve in the south (7th airborne) has been moved to zap and now is taking heavy losses without stopping the ukr advance….
    14. reports say the 2nd and 47th divisions in the north attack (russian) are exhausted and can not push forward due to losses..
    15. russia used a lancent on a T90M… a russian T90M (friendly fire)
    16. ukraine has breached the russian line at 3 places
    17. wagner is on the move for revenge
    18. MI-8 helo pilot sold his helo for 10 million USD (and he killed his crew doing it)
    19. a great Parady [sic] account has popped up on twitter
    20. turkey has officially (as policy) stated that the pre 2014 ukraine borders are the legal borders.
    21. putin was too scared to show up at BRICS
    22. the number of F16s to ukraine is nearing 100.
    23. the moon refused to be russian.
    24. 5000+ more russians killed.
    25. nearly 200 artillery systems have been killed.
    26. JAS-39s look to be going to ukraine.
    all this week, and we have 3 days to go.
    so is russia winning still?
    asking for a friend

    Who’s ayden, you may ask? Another American pro-Putin grifter.

    Speaking of American pro-Putin grifters, Pekka from Vatnik Soup has a breakdown on Ramaswamy, who made his money off-shore as a “pump and dump” stock promoter.

    Lastly, Prigozhin wasn’t the only thing erased by Putin, because the little Russian autocrat is erasing the rest of Wagner, akin to Chairman Xi with Tibet, and like Putin in conquered Ukraine.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  16. I remember when Rush Limbaugh said he wanted Obama to fail and was excoriated. Democrats and neverTrump (some of the same people that were appalled by Limbaugh’s remarks) went about wishing failure on trump without any sense of the irony.

    steveg (ea52cb)

  17. steveg (ea52cb) — 8/25/2023 @ 1:29 pm

    Not new. No party out of power wants the party in power to succeed.

    Rip Murdock (6347cf)

  18. @17

    Not new. No party out of power wants the party in power to succeed.

    Rip Murdock (6347cf) — 8/25/2023 @ 1:43 pm

    But it was a controversy during Obama years as it was re-spun as “hating that black guy”.

    whembly (5f7596)

  19. > If we don’t, then we need to decide where we go from here.

    If we successfully destabilize trust in the legal system, then we justify its replacement by a system run by authoratarian diktat.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  20. “If we successfully destabilize trust in the legal system, then we justify its replacement by a system run by authoratarian diktat.”

    classic false alternative fallacy

    the choice isn’t between corrupt and authoritarian, unless the point is to justify corrupt

    lloyd (44fceb)

  21. Former Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchison did not raise his hand

    He said that if Trump was convicted of aa crime before the election, the Republican National Committee would remove him as the nominee and maybe he would even be disqualified..

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/fox-news-republican-presidential-primary-debate-transcript

    Asa Hutchinson (01:19:59):

    I did not raise my hand because there’s an important issue we as a party have to face and over a year ago I said that Donald Trump was morally disqualified from being president again as a result of what happened on January 6th. More people are understanding the importance of that, including conservative legal scholars who says he may be disqualified under the 14th Amendment from being president again as a result of the insurrection. This is something that could disqualify him under our rules and under the Constitution. Obviously I’m not going to support somebody who’s been convicted of a serious felony or who is disqualified under our Constitution and that’s consistent with RNC rules and I hope everybody would agree with me.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  22. The timing of her indictment is absolutely and blatantly politically motivated

    Observer (397d6a) — 8/25/2023 @ 10:15 am

    As a former government employee, I can tell you that the wheels of justice grind slowly. When prosecuting a former President, even more time is needed to make sure all the ducks are in order.

    norcal (7cc572)

  23. the choice isn’t between corrupt and authoritarian

    lloyd (44fceb) — 8/25/2023 @ 1:55 pm

    Correct, but only because Trump was both, and took both to new levels.

    norcal (7cc572)

  24. What Asa Hutchinson said was a different lie than the others.

    https://jewishworldreview.com/0823/feldman082423.php3

    The obvious reasons are that there’s the issue of whether the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol an “insurrection” and did Trump participate or give aid and comfort to the “enemies” of the Constitution not to mention he could be convicted of an unrelated offense.

    But here he argues it is not self-executing and requires a determination by Congress or a law giving a procedure for determining that and so Chief Justice Chase ruled as a circuit judge.

    To be sure, Chase’s logic in Griffin’s Case is a bit tortured, as Baude and Paulsen’s article shows over some 20 pages. Chase was clearly trying to achieve a near-term legal objective (upholding convictions by judges who had once been associated with the Confederacy and might have been disqualified by Section 3). He also likely had a longer-term political objective, namely giving a majority in Congress the ability to decide whether Section 3 would be applied, rather than requiring two-thirds of Congress to lift the bar on office.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  25. Biden can pick someone younger and incompetent

    Indeed.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  26. Indeed, it is two-tiered.

    His real complaint is that it’s not two-tiered enough.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  27. When prosecuting a former President, even more time is needed to make sure all the ducks are in order.

    But not so much time as to miss the election season. Is is just coincidental that all that delay — in 4 separate cases — amounted to perfect timing for Joe Biden?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  28. norcal (7cc572) — 8/25/2023 @ 2:00 pm

    As a former government employee, I can tell you that the wheels of justice grind slowly. When prosecuting a former President, even more time is needed to make sure all the ducks are in order.

    The trial is now scheduled for October 23 because of Kenneth Cheesbro. This Wisconsinite was one of the lawyers gaming things out – and also, in one message used the word “wild” – saying the prospect of violence (probably meaning between pro and anti-Trump demonstrators -might get the Supreme Court to decide, one way or the other, on the legality of something before Jan 6 – and on Jan 6 he went to the Capitol and spent his time filming the organizers of the rally (Ali Alexander and Alex Jones) telling people not to attack the police and to go to a certain place to hear Trump speak.

    Trump wants it later.

    I wonder if this means that the cheese brother will force a severance of his case (maybe including anyone else willing to go to trial Oct 23)

    I think nobody has been indicted in either of the election indictments that involve Trump either fr the riot or for going to court.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  29. Narrator: The Kremlin says that Putin didn’t order the plane crash that killed Prigozhin.]

    Ah:

    Why was this included?

    I would suspect it was at the behest of British libel lawy3rs even though this article, as published, says nothing about the cause of the crash.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  30. “What Asa Hutchinson said was a different lie than the others.”

    So he lied?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  31. United States sources have said it was not a missile because spy satellites detected no heat trail (sounds like somebody has been leaking classified information and will get into no trouble – but maybe this was authorized by President Biden) and probably was a bomb or other sabotage.

    https://abcnews.go.com/International/prigozhins-body-medical-examiners-office-kremlin-remains-silent/story?id=102525074

    A senior U.S. official said the preliminary belief is that the private jet was downed by an explosion on board, potentially caused by a well-placed bomb. Another U.S official said the United States believes that a bomb was very likely the cause of the explosion.

    I don;t knwif the mention of the spy satellite was authorized

    https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/wagner-prigozhin-russia-assassinated-intelligence-3e456fab

    U.S. satellites with infrared sensors can detect the heat from missile launches, and none was detected at the time the plane was downed, defense officials said.

    The source for the missile theory is the Wagner Group or some web material purporting to come from the Wagner Group..

    The missile theory actually had a little bit of implausibility to it, or required further explanation, because it would have meant regular members of the Russian military would have taken part in it. Could Putin assure them they would be protected by law? A bomb or sabotage could be more tightly held and would be done by people already doing secret things.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  32. I wonder =r did Putin decide to kill Prigozhin earlier but put it off because he couldn’t be sure he’d get all his chips in a row and/or Prigozhin changed his plans a few times and/or he was trying to make sure the damaging information about himself did not become public?

    Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9)

  33. 30. AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/25/2023 @ 2:31 pm

    So he lied?

    His out was the unlikely possibility that Trump might be removed as the nominee by the Republican party. He lied about the likelihood and he lied about the grounds.

    Obviously I’m not going to support somebody who’s been convicted of a serious felony or who is disqualified under our Constitution and that’s consistent with RNC rules and I hope everybody would agree with me.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  34. Several republicans in congress have asked trump to tell his shock troops to stand down. Trump: why? Good luck with that they didn’t buy all of those guns for nothing.

    asset (d517e1)

  35. Good luck with that they didn’t buy all of those guns for nothing.

    asset (d517e1) — 8/25/2023 @ 3:09 pm

    There you go again with your violent fantasies.

    norcal (7cc572)

  36. Could Putin assure them they would be protected by law?

    Putin is the law.

    Rip Murdock (6347cf)

  37. Putin could make them scapegoats. They would need, at least, a legal defense defense, mainly in case somebody else came along

    Sammy Finkelman (d8b7dc)

  38. The number os missing in Hawaii has been reduced to 388.

    Sammy Finkelman (d8b7dc)

  39. Hawaiian electric took the long term view in trying to prevent wildfires: Make a futile attempt to reduce the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. They ignored everything practical including on the day of the fire, when they were told for hours about downed poles Maybe they did shut off some of the electricity..

    Sammy Finkelman (d8b7dc)

  40. Asa Huchison mumbled something about RNC rules (that no one ineligible for the presidency can get the nomination)

    It doesn’t, and can’t, apply – and then he went beyond that.

    Sammy Finkelman (d8b7dc)

  41. Asa Huchison mumbled something about RNC rules (that no one ineligible for the presidency can get the nomination.

    Well, Trump meets the Constitutional requirements to be President, so that’s not an issue.

    Rip Murdock (6347cf)

  42. They would need, at least, a legal defense defense, mainly in case somebody else came along

    Sammy Finkelman (d8b7dc) — 8/25/2023 @ 3:49 pm

    LOL!

    Rip Murdock (6347cf)

  43. Rip Murdock (6347cf) — 8/25/2023 @ 4:36 pm

    Being a member of the Russian security services or special forces means never having to explain anything.

    Rip Murdock (6347cf)

  44. While I sympathize with the annoyance of finding students a place to go when their parents opt them out of stuff, parents really should have the right to opt out of a unit.

    Nic (896fdf)

  45. @35 I am only pointing out what republican members of congress have said. Trump tell your supporters to stand down. The voice of our guns speak the sounds of justice I thought was the S.L.A.’s motto not trumpsters.

    asset (a87ae1)

  46. The Plight of the Rich Men North of Richmond. Well done.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  47. While I sympathize with the annoyance of finding students a place to go when their parents opt them out of stuff, parents really should have the right to opt out of a unit.

    The question I have is what is the school district doing in forcing these issues into grammar school classrooms. They may decry the parents’ religiosity, but the parents are not the ones proselytizing.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  48. The Plight of the Rich Men North of Richmond. Well done.

    Absolutely brutal.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  49. Maybe they did shut off some of the electricity..

    The state refused to give the firefighters access to water and blocked the only road out of town. But let’s blame the utility.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  50. Putin is the law.

    “L’État, c’est moi”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  51. My guess would be that they have a lesson on people being different but being nice to everyone and maybe a book where some of the characters mentioned are gay or implied gay. I think Coraline has a gay couple and one of the Shoes books has an implied gay couple. In our 8th grade curriculum they also have a choice to read a book where the protagonist is very confused about a large number of things, including his sexuality, it isn’t graphic though.

    Nic (896fdf)

  52. Ukraine Doesn’t Have To Reclaim Melitopol, Part II, and Telenko links to Professor Kallberg.
    I’m cautiously optimistic about their progress, because they’re making progress, but I’ll feel much better when the Crimean peninsula is cut off from the mainland, preferably before Thanksgiving, only three short months away.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  53. My guess would be …

    a guess, same as mine. I’m willing to bet that there are liars on both sides.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  54. When does Fauci get arrested for violating the law and funding gain-of-function research that led to millions of deaths?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  55. @kevin@53 It’s an educated guess, though, in my case.

    Nic (896fdf)

  56. NJRob (eb56c3) — 8/25/2023 @ 7:18 pm

    Maybe place the blame where it belongs, the communist Xi regime and the military wing of their Wuhan lab, because the evidence against Fauci is thin to anorexic.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  57. Paul,

    it’s clear as day he funded the lab because he couldn’t do the terroristic “research” here. China needs to be held accountable and so does Fauci.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  58. “The Plight of the Rich Men North of Richmond. Well done.’

    “It was funny seeing it at the presidential debate because it, like, I wrote that song about those people,” he said. “So for them to sit there and have to listen to that, that cracks me up.”

    Anthony added: “That song has nothing to do with Joe Biden. It’s a lot bigger than Joe Biden. That song is written about the people on that stage. And a lot more, too—not just them, but definitely them.”

    Besides taking issue with the use of his song being a focal point of the debate, the country crooner also took swipes at right-wing celebrities touting him as a fellow traveler despite his own self-described “centrist” politics.

    “The one thing that has bothered me is seeing people wrap politics up in this,” he said while filming from inside his pickup truck. “It’s aggravating seeing people on conservative news trying to identify with me like I’m one of them. It’s aggravating to see certain musicians and politicians act like we’re buddies, like we’re fighting the same struggle here.”

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/rich-men-north-of-richmond-singer-oliver-anthony-rips-use-of-song-at-fox-news-debate?ref=home?ref=home

    Davethulhu (76e6bd)

  59. The complete Georgia mugshot collection, lead by President Mugshot himself.

    Collect the whole set!

    Rip Murdock (8455d0)

  60. Davethulhu (76e6bd) — 8/25/2023 @ 7:46 pm

    It’s like when Republican candidates (like President Mugshot) play Born in the USA at their rallies without listening to the lyrics.

    Rip Murdock (8455d0)

  61. Another bold, solid and true statement from Ms. Haley. Well done.

    Sorry @GStephanopoulos, everyone in America can see Joe Biden’s decline and have concerns about his ability to serve a second term.

    They know a vote for Joe Biden is a vote for Kamala Harris.

    The media needs to stop protecting Biden and tell America the truth.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  62. I’d take a Haley ticket or a Christie ticket at this point. They are both throwing interesting truth-bombs, even if not the same ones.

    Nic (896fdf)

  63. I agree, Nic.

    So far, Haley is doing a masterful job of walking that fine line between Trumpers and Never Trumpers.

    Christie said the right things, didn’t flinch when booed, and also showed some charm with the UFO question.

    norcal (8c6442)

  64. @62 and 63,

    As I said in the other thread, I agree with that 100%, right up until Nikki raises her hand confirming that if Trump wins the nomination she’ll support him even if he’s convicted of multiple felonies for attempting to wreak the Constitution. To my mind that’s a bridge too far. I’m left with Christie.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  65. @58 the plight of the poor both north and south of richmond doesn’t need to be sung about the corporate (wealthy) establishment democrats are barely hanging on to older black women and less so with older white women as he tells the left base I will give you what you want just don’t run against me in the primaries! RFK will get some votes ;but is out in the political and media wilderness.

    asset (e55ac5)

  66. “I agree with that 100%, right up until Nikki raises her hand confirming that if Trump wins the nomination she’ll support him”

    Again, I think the question was a gotcha, because Baier prefaced it with reminding them that they signed a pledge to support the eventual nominee. Further, if Trump gets convicted and wins the nomination, we have much deeper problems with the GOP as a viable party then whether Nikki Haley pledged some nebulous support.

    Don’t get me wrong, my initial reaction was the same as your’s: the party simply can’t nominate a criminal, pledge or no pledge. The GOP can’t give up on the criminal justice system to continue to fetishize Donald Trump. I still feel the same, though I dismiss the snap hand-poll as being less informative than an actual thoughtful answer that probes the outrageousness of the bsae selecting a criminal. Moving the +50% away from Trump is a process and you have to be in-the-game to have any relevancy to that endeavor. This was the cynical price for being on subsequent stages to influence the discusion. Yes it was a missed opportunity, but it was a no-win gotcha.

    Now, what of the crowd reaction to the hand poll? One could see the cultish behavior of the audience as they couldn’t hide their glee as candidate after candidate pledged their odious support to the syndicate….and lost their soul. It was creepy and devoid of any self awareness of what they were cheering. The problem is monstrous. Let’s see if we get to the place where the convention sullies itself. In the interim, someone still needs to persuade Trumpists to choose someone else….

    AJ_Liberty (382115)

  67. Further, if Trump gets convicted and wins the nomination, we have much deeper problems with the GOP as a viable party then whether Nikki Haley pledged some nebulous support.

    Indeed.

    Now, what of the crowd reaction to the hand poll?

    The crowd was selected from “GOP voters” not the normal “voters apportioned to the several debaters.” In essence half the crowd was Donald Trump’s cult in action. Considering that some of them were politely listening, rather than cheering or booing mentions of Trump, the vocal reaction is not a good measure.

    Now the cult IS a problem for the GOP, in that they represent many of those remaining in the party. Some of them are able to change their minds, others are fanatic worshipers of the anti-Christ. We’ll see what happens going forward.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  68. I believe that, should the GOP Convention nominate a convicted felon, there will be a party split and more than one current Republican will be on some state ballots.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  69. I believe that, should the GOP Convention nominate a convicted felon, there will be a party split and more than one current Republican will be on some state ballots.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/26/2023 @ 8:01 am

    Good luck qualifying a new Republican Party on state ballots in such a short time. Any alternative candidate would need to run as an independent.

    Rip Murdock (8455d0)

  70. Trump gains advantage as states set delegate selection rules

    Donald Trump’s presidential campaign notched a major victory (in late July) when members of the California Republican executive committee voted to parcel out convention delegates based on the statewide vote next year — doing away with the state’s longtime system of awarding them by congressional district, which had been perceived as a more level playing field for lower-tiered candidates.

    The new rules give Trump a shot at clinching all of the state’s 169 delegates — more than any other state — while at the same time making it harder for a challenger like Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) to make it a two-person race.
    …………..
    Louisiana Republicans have moved to strengthen the role of candidates in selecting delegates, a change that comes after Trump won the state primary in 2016 but was not able to secure a majority of the delegates. ……….

    In Michigan, where Democrats are forcing a primary in February in violation of Republican rules, the state party has said it expects to award most of its delegates at party-run caucuses in early March.
    …………..
    “If Trump is cruising into Super Tuesday — and sitting well in most states, including California, that take over 50 percent of the vote — then it’s great for him and it will end the nomination process,” said California Republican strategist Rob Stutzman, referring to a blizzard of primaries on March 5 that will include California. ……….
    …………..
    “You’ll probably see more TV versus ground campaigns” under the new rules, (said Tim Lineberger, a California political consultant.) “But California is notoriously expensive, so I think it’s going to be cost-prohibitive to some of the lower-polling candidates.”
    ………..
    (Nevada’s) GOP chairman, Michael J. McDonald, has long had a close relationship with Trump, and the former president recently endorsed two people who won the county chairman jobs in the state’s two most populous counties, Washoe and Clark. ………..

    The state is considered the most Trump-friendly of the early primary contests, in part because of its lower share of college-educated and churchgoing voters. …………..
    …………….
    The leadership of the Idaho Republican Party, which is closely aligned with Trump, recently voted to choose its delegates through a caucus system — a move that could also benefit the former president. The Republican State Central Committee adopted a proposal at its June meeting to schedule the caucus so that Idaho Republicans would vote fifth among the early contests and before Super Tuesday, though no formal date has been set. That could give Trump, who won the state with nearly 64 percent of the vote in the 2020 presidential contest, another early win next year.
    …………….

    Rip Murdock (8455d0)

  71. I like this idea:

    It was just before 4 a.m. on Day 5 of the 2023 Python Challenge, a trademarked, only-in-Florida hunting bonanza held in August, and across the Glades, hunters were pulling long hours in search of snakes that can stretch to 20 feet. The 10-day competition is among several unusual strategies the state has devised to try to wrangle a monster problem: Burmese pythons are swallowing the Everglades whole.

    And hope Florida has some success with it.

    (Here’s the state site, if you want to begin preparing for next year, or are just curious: https://flpythonchallenge.org/participate/required-online-training/ )

    Jim Miller (c86b9f)

  72. RIP long time game show host Bob Barker (99).

    Rip Murdock (8455d0)

  73. “The price is wrong, b–ch.”
    And then Mr. Barker whooped Happy’s butt.
    RIP.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  74. Here’s yet another reason why FoxNews is FoxPropaganda, with Brian Kilmeade giving a softball interview with Mr. Shokin, the sacked Ukrainian Chief Prosecutor who still proclaims he was investigating Burisma despite the lack of evidence that he did so.

    You know it was softball because there’s no mention of the UK investigation into Zlochevsky’s money-laundering scheme that Shokin effectively shut down, and no mention of Devon Archer’s testimony where he said that things were “under control” for Burisma with Shokin in place. I DVR’d the program, so we’ll see if Kilmeade brings up those two issues.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  75. @lurker@64 I realize this is either cynical or overly hopeful of me, but I think several of the people who raised their hands were lying

    Nic (896fdf)

  76. #75 Nic – From time to time over the years I have found myself hoping that politicians were lying to me. It’s an embarrassing feeling, but, I like to think, an honest one.

    Jim Miller (f8867b)

  77. https://justthenews.com/accountability/russia-and-ukraine-scandals/hdfeds-urged-biden-give-ukraine-loan-guarantee-he

    Just weeks before then-Vice President Joe Biden took the opposite action in late 2015, a task force of State, Treasury and Justice Department officials declared that Ukraine had made adequate progress on anti-corruption reforms and deserved a new $1 billion U.S. loan guarantee, according to government memos that conflict with the narrative Democrats have sustained since the 2019 impeachment scandal.

    “Ukraine has made sufficient progress on its reform agenda to justify a third guarantee,” reads an Oct. 1, 2015, memo summarizing the recommendation of the Interagency Policy Committee (IPC) – a task force created to advise the Obama White House on whether Ukraine was cleaning up its endemic corruption and deserved more Western foreign aid.

    Contradicts the leftwing narrative.

    NJRob (8d79b6)

  78. You know it was softball because there’s no mention of the UK investigation into Zlochevsky’s money-laundering scheme that Shokin effectively shut down, and no mention of Devon Archer’s testimony where he said that things were “under control” for Burisma with Shokin in place. I DVR’d the program, so we’ll see if Kilmeade brings up those two issues.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/26/2023 @ 11:02 am

    Now do the DOJ and Hunter Biden. Come on. I know you can do it.

    NJRob (8d79b6)

  79. Bronny James Diagnosis:

    …………..
    The likely cause of Bronny James’ cardiac arrest (last July) was a congenital heart defect, which was identified after an initial evaluation at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los Angeles and follow-up evaluations at the Mayo Clinic and the Atlantic Health-Morristown Medical Center in New Jersey, according to the spokeswoman.

    A congenital heart defect is a broad term referring to any abnormality of heart structure that is present from birth, which results when the heart, or blood vessels near the heart, doesn’t develop normally before birth.

    “It is an anatomically and functionally significant Congenital Heart Defect which can and will be treated,” the family spokeswoman said. “We are very confident in Bronny’s full recovery and return to basketball in the very near future. ……….
    …………..

    Rip Murdock (8455d0)

  80. Now do the DOJ and Hunter Biden. Come on. I know you can do it.

    NJRob (8d79b6) — 8/26/2023 @ 1:15 pm

    Yes. It happens on both sides. You have to weigh everything on both sides, and determine which candidate is less bad. Right now, on balance, Joe is less bad than Donny. You may see it differently.

    norcal (3783f0)

  81. Reuters/Ipsos poll

    Not much change

    Some 59% of the Republicans polled had followed the debate, with 19% saying they watched it live and the rest saying they had watched some clips or saw news coverage about it. Forty-one percent said they hadn’t seen or heard anything about it.

    IOW, 81% went with their previous position (assuming that the 19% who watched it watched much of it).

    This is really part of the problem and why we have Trump. Very few people are engaged, and only get snippets of news as they surface from their entertainment bubbles. And Trump entertains.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  82. People complain about the saturation ads before elections (and the superficial content of those ads). But really it takes that kind of saturation to break into the entertainment bubbles and even when you do complex messaging will be ignored.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  83. “You have to weigh everything on both sides”

    Yes, but everytime I weigh something these days, it inscrutably comes up as 215lbs.

    AJ_Liberty (c23008)

  84. Now do the DOJ and Hunter Biden. Come on. I know you can do it.

    I’ve done it, but maybe your on hyperpartisan beer goggles were strapped on and you didn’t see my multiple comments.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  85. Contradicts the leftwing narrative.

    Noted, your link was written by the right-wing hack who was neck deep with Giuliani, using pro-Russian hacks for sources, and who was supposed to have some custodial kind of role regarding the documents Trump took to Mar A Lago (until the FBI stepped in and got them back), and retained Trump’s hack attorneys DiGenova-Toensing (who also represented Shokin and dirty Ukrainian oligarch Firtash). They’re all partisan sows belly-rolling in the same corrupt sh-t filled sty.

    Bottom line, it wasn’t just Biden who made these demands about Shokin, it was also

    US Policy;
    EU policy;
    IMF policy &
    policy of Ukraine anti-corruption groups

    Being called corrupt by Shokin is like being called a “liar” by Trump

    Also regarding Shokin, his MO was well documented years ago.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  86. OTD five years ago, McCain succumbed to gioblastoma. Four years before that, he spoke with nearly prescient clarity regarding Putin, Ukraine, Europe and our pathetic efforts in helping Ukraine defend itself.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  87. Thank you for that McCain link, Paul.

    DRJ (2b49a4)

  88. If accurate, this is telling, unfortunately:

    The former president has raised $7.1 million since he was booked at an Atlanta jail Thursday evening, according to figures provided first to POLITICO by his campaign. On Friday alone, Trump raised $4.18 million, making it the single-highest 24-hour period of his campaign to date, according to a person familiar with the totals.

    Dana (4020dd)

  89. focus on the corruption of the individual in power. Your whataboutism to paper over it is noted.

    NJRob (0bc74c) — 8/21/2023 @ 8:21 am

    and

    Now do the DOJ and Hunter Biden. Come on. I know you can do it.

    NJRob (8d79b6) — 8/26/2023 @ 1:15 pm

    Is whataboutism good, Rob, or is it bad?

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  90. Okay, I just watched Kilmeade’s interview of attempt to resuscitate a discredited Shokin.
    One, Kilmeade said exactly nothing about the Shokin’s stonewalling the UK investigation into Zlochevsky for his laundering $23 million.

    Two, Kilmeade flat-out lied about Devon Archer’s testimony, that Shokin posed a “threat” to Burisma. Archer didn’t testify to that. Rather, he testified to this.

    …the narrative that was spun to me was that Shokin was under control and that whoever the next person that was brought in was — you know, the fact that he was — this is the total, this is the narrative spun to me, that Shokin being fired was a — was not good, because he was like under control as relates to Mykola.

    Mykola is Mykola Zlochevsky, owner of Burisma.

    Three, Kilmeade basically took Shokin at his word despite the well documented record that Shokin was not investigating Burisma or Zlochevsky or Hunter. Kilmeade didn’t challenge a single thing Shokin said, taking the same tack as Bartiromo interviewing Trump. This isn’t journalism, it’s advocacy, it’s political manipulation.

    Kilmeade’s segment is a pathetic and dishonest whitewash of a patently and provably corrupt Ukrainian official. FoxNews is FoxPropaganda, especially when hacks like Kilmeade get so much airtime.
    I’ll go even further: FoxNews is a reason (not the reason) why Cult Trump is as large as it is, IMO, because let’s face it, a substantial segment of America is in this cult, like this person. Opinions may differ, but I don’t like cults.

    Last comment. The best thing that can be said about Joe Biden is that he had an appearance of a conflict of interest in conducting foreign policy with Ukraine because his son had a no-work job from a Ukrainian oligarch that paid him six figures per year, and it speaks directly to Joe’s poor judgment, even though there was nothing wrong with our policy regarding Shokin. There is no evidence that Joe did anything worse, but Joe put himself in that position by agreeing to be Obama’s emissary to Ukraine.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  91. Maybe a red flag law could’ve prevented the Jacksonville dollar store shooter from getting a semiautomatic weapon, given that he was detained by law enforcement for mental health reasons.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  92. “Kilmeade’s segment is a pathetic and dishonest whitewash of a patently and provably corrupt Ukrainian official. FoxNews is FoxPropaganda”

    This is what maintains Trump at over 50% in the GOP. Propaganda keeps too many Republicans ignorant or confused over basic facts. Then we have elected officials play up the confusion and make claims that ultimately they have to back away from. They lie and add more clutter onto the radar screen. They let partisanship drive who these people choose to believe. There is no accountability. If a past journalist did as inept a job as Kilmeade, that person would be fired. The out now is that, well, he’s not a journalist. He’s an entertainer and this is what his audience wants to see. The problem is that it’s all blurred and made to appear legitimate. You’re mixing a news network with advocacy that is dangerously misleading. Tell the truth. One would think the Dominion lawsuit would start to change the culture. Doesn’t look like it…

    AJ_Liberty (c23008)

  93. I was really hoping this wouldn’t happen, but more people watched Tuckyo’s puff piece with Trump than watched the debate.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/tucker-vs-fox-news-the-numbers-are-in/ar-AA1fO6vf?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=34324cd633b3452c925c17429c12087a&ei=6

    You see, Sammy? I told you there would be numbers to compare.

    A simple “You were right” will suffice. 😁

    norcal (374d92)

  94. Now do the DOJ and Hunter Biden. Come on. I know you can do it.

    I’m coming back to this, Rob, as a recap (and placeholder), and to refresh your obviously spotty memory.
    My comments on the DOJ can be broken into three administrations.
    Obama.
    1. Hillary should’ve been prosecuted for gross negligence, IMO, which I’ve stated a lot more than once, which you’ve conveniently forgotten. Comey didn’t go far enough when he settled with “extremely careless”, which sounds bad but has no legal standing.
    2. Comey broke FBI protocol when he made two public statements about Hillary in July 2016 and later in October, both of which helped Trump and hurt Hillary. Funny how you and the rest of Cult Trump didn’t give Comey credit for that. Loyalty uber alles, jawohl Rob?
    3. The IG well documented the FBI’s shortcomings regarding the Russia counterintelligence investigation, and I fully agree with his report. Clinesmith forged an email and, IMO, should’ve been disbarred (unfortunately, his law license was only suspended), and the FBI made seventeen errors and omissions regarding the Carter Page FISA warrants. I also agree with IG Horowitz that bias wasn’t an issue, and that the FBI investigation into Russian electoral mischief was properly predicated.
    Trump.
    1. Sessions did the right thing and recused, therefore left it to Rosenstein to appropriately appoint Mueller as Special Counsel. Mueller conducted a solid investigation and wrote a solid report, only bolstered by the GOP-led Senate Intelligence Committee investigation and report. I’ll also note that Durham was favorable toward the Mueller report.
    2. If there was a DOJ issue under Trump, it was Barr’s lies and deceptions about the Mueller report before anyone had a chance to read it. No, Trump was not exonerated.
    3. Barr caved to Trump’s efforts at retribution, to investigate the investigators, by appointing Durham and later elevating him to Special Counsel. It was unnecessary, given the results, but I don’t regret that the investigation happened, because it only gave Horowitz’s report more credibility and standing, and made Durham and Barr and Trump look the fools in the attempt.
    4. After Barr, Trump was trying to force the DOJ to do his bidding when he pushed Jeffrey Clark into the Acting AG role, but DOJ leadership threatened a mass walkout, to their credit.
    5. The Hunter investigation started in 2018, where Barr appointed Weiss (and presumably with Trump’s blessing), but nothing happened under Trump or Barr. That’s two-plus years of Hunter being investigated under Trump, Rob. Why aren’t you complaining about that?
    5. Why didn’t Barr and Trump try to disbar Clinesmith? The guy broke the law in Obama’s presidency or the first year of Trump’s.
    Biden.
    1. If anything, Garland wasn’t aggressive enough, IMO, which I take as deference to an ex-president. Things only accelerated after Trump (beyond reasonable doubt) willfully retained national defense materials and obstructed their return, thus precipitating the appointment of Jack Smith last November, which was the right call.
    2. Garland did the right thing, appointing Jack Smith to investigate events leading to the J6 insurrection and related fraud.
    3. Garland did the right thing, appointing Hur as Special Counsel.
    4. Garland did the right thing, appointing a Special Counsel, but he did the wrong thing in picking Weiss for the role.
    5. Clinesmith’s law license was only suspended under Garland.

    Hunter.
    It’s not a “scandal of unprecedented proportions” as you stupidly said over 13 months ago.
    His “tax affairs” are still an open case, as is his crime when he lied on a gun application. The only new thing is whether he violated FARA, and I don’t know if there’s evidence of a violation or not. We’ll see. If there’s evidence that establishes a crime, the prosecute him for that.
    His other business affairs are irrelevant. He used his last name to fatten his pocketbook, which is skeezy but not illegal or rare. Mr. Ivanka Trump is getting $20 to $40 million a year from some Saudi r@gheads who gave him a $2 billion investment fund to play with.
    Also, to this day, no one knows how many millions bin Salman gave Trump to host multiple sports-washing golf events at his country club, or how much Ivanka eventually pulled in when she sold Trump trademarks to ChiCom entities.

    Are you satisfied, Rob? Or do you want to whatabout some more?

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  95. @93 never trumpers want to believe they are not outcasts. Try clicking your heels 3 times like dorthy.

    asset (fb878e)

  96. Again, I think the question was a gotcha, because Baier prefaced it with reminding them that they signed a pledge to support the eventual nominee.

    I sympathize with why the question bothered you, but I don’t consider it a gotcha. It certainly did put the candidates on the spot. Whether they raised their hand or not was sure to p1ss off either pro- or anti-Trump voters. But the immediate culpability for that lies with Ronna McDaniel, not Bret Baier. Making them take that stupid loyalty pledge was guaranteed to embarrass every candidate but the one who made it seem necessary, and whose word is worthless anyway. Once they were on record with the pledge, not asking them if they would stand by it if the party’s nominee, its current leader, was convicted of multiple felonies for attempting to overthrow the constitutional transfer of power, would have been journalistic malpractice.

    Also remember, the candidates on that stage aren’t just running for president. The nominee also becomes de facto head of the party. Knowing where candidates seeking those positions stand on their party nominating a criminal who sat in the White House cheering on the rioters who stormed the Capital could hardly be more relevant to their qualifications. I suspect Baier would have asked it even without the pledge, but the pledge made it more inevitable and, I’d argue, important.

    For what it’s worth, I’d have preferred he posed it to the candidates individually, giving each one a chance to explain their answer. But that would have taken a lot more time than it seems Fox wanted to devote to all things Trump, which isn’t the worst of reasons.

    Of course the greatest responsibility for all of this lies with a faction of voters that seems committed to sinking the GOP morally and electorally rather than renounce their fealty to the most loathsome and dangerous politician this country has seen in a century and a half. That commitment is a moral rot which must be torn out root and branch before the GOP will deserve to lead again.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  97. Forgot the html tag. Just so it’s clear, I’ll post it again. Apologies for the repetition.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  98. Again, I think the question was a gotcha, because Baier prefaced it with reminding them that they signed a pledge to support the eventual nominee.

    I sympathize with why the question bothered you, but I don’t consider it a gotcha. It certainly did put the candidates on the spot. Whether they raised their hand or not was sure to p1ss off either pro- or anti-Trump voters. But the immediate culpability for that lies with Ronna McDaniel, not Bret Baier. Making them take that stupid loyalty pledge was guaranteed to embarrass every candidate but the one who made it seem necessary, and whose word is worthless anyway. Once they were on record with the pledge, not asking them if they would stand by it if the party’s nominee, its current leader, was convicted of multiple felonies for attempting to overthrow the constitutional transfer of power, would have been journalistic malpractice.

    Also remember, the candidates on that stage aren’t just running for president. The nominee also becomes de facto head of the party. Knowing where candidates seeking those positions stand on their party nominating a criminal who sat in the White House cheering on the rioters who stormed the Capital could hardly be more relevant to their qualifications. I suspect Baier would have asked it even without the pledge, but the pledge made it more inevitable and, I’d argue, important.

    For what it’s worth, I’d have preferred he posed it to the candidates individually, giving each one a chance to explain their answer. But that would have taken a lot more time than it seems Fox wanted to devote to all things Trump, which isn’t the worst of reasons.

    Of course the greatest responsibility for all of this lies with a faction of voters that seems committed to sinking the GOP morally and electorally rather than renounce their fealty to the most loathsome and dangerous politician this country has seen in a century and a half. That commitment is a moral rot which must be torn out root and branch before the GOP will deserve to lead again.

    (Again, apologies for the duplication, but I hope this one makes more sense.)

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  99. Mom gets the leftist mob to attack her and get her fired for speaking out against sexual indoctrination of her children including her 10 year old.

    How many of you will wake up to what is being done to society or will you just wait till your gone and pretend to be above it all while leaving the ruins for future generations.

    Here’s the slant from leftist Newsweek.

    https://www.newsweek.com/california-mom-says-fired-objecting-gender-lessons-1820167

    https://www.foxnews.com/media/california-mother-claims-lost-her-job-opposing-sexual-ideology-schools-absolutely-devastating

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  100. Is whataboutism good, Rob, or is it bad?

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/26/2023 @ 8:39 pm

    It’s not whataboutism in the slightest, but you know that. It just doesn’t support your agenda so you ignore it.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  101. Paul,

    it is a scandal of unprecedented proportions. 1 in 6 people said if they knew about the laptop being genuine they wouldn’t have voted for Biden. That is the election. It was changed due to government putting their thumb on the scale of justice with the full support of the pravda media and continues to this day.

    That you are so blind you post over and over again about Trump without seeing what’s happening in the nation says all anyone needs to know about you.

    Have a nice day.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  102. Paul,

    you’ve minimized the connections in DC protecting Hunter and by definition his father. You ignore all the coverups and waiting for the statute of limitations to run out. You ignore that the higher ups in the FBI and DOJ were working against Trump from the get go yet act like he’s the reason people weren’t prosecuted.

    Your bias and propaganda are well noted.

    Have a nice day.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  103. Of course the greatest responsibility for all of this lies with a faction of voters that seems committed to sinking the GOP morally and electorally rather than renounce their fealty to the most loathsome and dangerous politician this country has seen in a century and a half. That commitment is a moral rot which must be torn out root and branch before the GOP will deserve to lead again.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/27/2023 @ 2:54 am

    Get some help.

    You will destroy the country to save it. Got it.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  104. There might have been a time when a hacked and stolen video of a 50-year old guy getting a Lewinsky from a prostitute might have kept his six-term Senator two-term Vice President father from being elected President, but that was a time when the mention of Donald Trump as President of the United States would only have elicited a snicker.

    nk (455448)

  105. 6’3″, 215 lbs, strawberry blond hair. Heh!

    nk (455448)

  106. the most loathsome and dangerous politician this country has seen in a century and a half.

    Hmmm. That’s a bit far back, I think. Disregarding any number of Dixiecrats (Thurmond, Maddox, George Wallace), or Henry Wallace who missed the Presidency by a few months, there was the Kingfisher himself, Huey Long. Only his providential assassination kept him from challenging FDR in 1936 as a socialist populist in the middle of the Depression.

    Who did you have in mind 150 years ago anyway?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  107. lurker,

    My disagreement with you is not about Trump or his behavior, but about practical politics which do not seem to enter your decision process. In an ideal world, sure, all of them should throw Trump to the curb. But if instead your desire is to save the GOP from the sewer, you have to make do with what you have.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  108. strawberry blond hair

    That’s what it says on the label.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  109. Girls with penises, meat made from plants, Teslas, and Trumps in the White House. We’re passing through a warp in the space-time continuum.

    nk (455448)

  110. @104:

    Or the Lewinsky matter itself. There was a time when a president committing obvious, provable perjury and sending his minions out to tamper with evidence and witnesses would have got him convicted in the Senate and removed from office.

    Had that happened, I suggest that Trump would have been convicted as well, at least in 2021.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  111. @109:

    Almond milk. Once you accept that (almonds to not lactate) all manner of oxymorons are possible.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  112. it is a scandal of unprecedented proportions

    Really?

    XYZ Affair
    Credit Mobilier
    Teapot Dome
    Watergate
    Iran-Contra

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  113. What is really a scandal is we have a presidential candidate (not Trump) who not only says the 2020 election was stolen, but that if he were in charge, it would have been re-run under federal control in January 2021.

    I think I would have done it very differently. I would have done very differently. So I think that there was a historic opportunity that was missed to settle a score in this country to say that we’re actually going to have a national compromise on this—single-day voting on Election Day as a federal holiday, which I think Congress should have acted in that window between November and January to say: paper ballots, government-issued ID. And if that’s the case, then we’re not going to complain about stolen elections. And if I were there, I would have declared on January 7th, saying now I’m going to win in a free and fair election. Unlike what we saw with big tech and others stealing the election last time around, fix the process. This time around, we get it right, and it was a missed opportunity to deliver national unity. That’s what I would have done, but that’s what I’m gonna be able to do as president is unite this country.

    —Presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy on whether Vice President Mike Pence did the right thing on January 6, speaking to National Review on August 23

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  114. Vivek Ramaswamy was quizzed on Meet the Press about something he wrote in a book Sept 2022, He said he stood by everything he wrote about Donald trump was a sore loser who played the victim

    Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5)

  115. Well he also meant Stacy Abrams

    Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5)

  116. VR said there should be one day in person Election Day voting with ID just to quiet doubts

    Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5)

  117. Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/26/2023 @ 11:19 pm

    A well-stated, detailed, and nuanced take.

    It deserved a better response than you got.

    norcal (5898d0)

  118. For the GOP, it’s all over but the shouting … and there will be plenty of shouting

    Watching this fight for the Republican presidential nomination is like watching a race or a game that feels fixed from the beginning. For all intents and purposes, former President Trump is effectively an incumbent seeking renomination. It is not and has not been an “open” contest with several hopefuls having a legitimate chance to win.

    The first Republican presidential debate did nothing to diminish Trump’s position as the prohibitive favorite for the 2024 Republican nomination. ………..
    ……………
    Indeed, the only thing that could prevent this being a rematch between President Biden and Trump would more likely be medical than political or legal.

    Many outside the GOP find it almost incomprehensible that, despite his legal challenges and polarizing behavior, Trump is the dominant figure in his party. But those still skeptical of Trump’s strength need to look at the situation through the eyes of most Republicans:

    1. Three-quarters of Republicans fundamentally like Donald Trump.
    …………..
    2. At least 6 out of 10 Republicans believe Donald Trump actually won the 2020 election.
    ……………
    3. Republicans believe the attacks and damaging stories are untrue or exaggerated. The allegations are, as a result, discounted.
    ……………
    4. Republicans see equivalence between Trump and Biden.
    …………….
    5. Republicans see Trump as either the most electable or the best person to lead the GOP.

    Many of those who assume that Trump will be dumped theorize that Republicans will see him as unelectable and therefore will replace him with a less damaged candidate. ………..
    ……………
    Whatever those outside of the GOP might think, most in the party do not see Trump as damaged merchandise or unelectable.
    …………..

    The background: a changed Republican Party

    While Trump and his personality would not have played well in the Republican Party of 20 or even 10 years ago, with the new composition of the party it’s closer to a perfect match.
    …………..
    Race for the nomination

    Certain fundamentals of the nominating process also work in Trump’s favor:

    The rules

    …………. After the four initial states of Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, and South Carolina, winner-take-all or winner-take-most delegate allocation is the rule in 38 of the remaining 46 states. Thus, any candidate who pretty consistently wins even with pluralities can lock up the nomination relatively easily.
    ……………..
    ……………..Winning a majority of the votes in a primary or caucus is obviously terrific, but just consistently winning pluralities is all that is needed to lock down a nomination.

    Given the depth of Trump’s support, and whether you want to call it 35 or 40 or 45 percent of the vote, in a field that at least starts off splintered, few doubt that Trump has at least 35 or 40 percent locked up.

    It is also important to note that Trump and the MAGA movement effectively controlled the GOP apparatus in most states, preventing any rules changes that might have been detrimental to his efforts to win the nomination.

    The field

    Another advantage that Trump has is that the field of alternatives is both too large and too diverse to allow for the consolidation necessary to stop his nomination. Someone leaning toward or backing Ron DeSantis is very different from a Chris Christie backer, who is different from a Tim Scott backer. A lot of polling finds that when those backing one of the alternatives to Trump are asked for a second choice, as often as not, the second choice is Trump. So the field of alternatives narrowing doesn’t necessarily make him any less likely to prevail.

    The calendar

    Many of the theories as to how Trump could be stopped would involve a candidate winning or dramatically overperforming in the Jan. 15 Iowa Caucus, then leveraging the momentum created by that performance into money and attention, enabling them to win or gain considerable ground in New Hampshire, creating the bandwagon effect leading to the nomination.

    As plausible as that sounds, the reality is that Iowa Caucus attendees are almost nothing like New Hampshire primary voters. ………..
    ……………..

    Rip Murdock (538961)

  119. NJRob (eb56c3) — 8/27/2023 @ 4:37 am

    . 1 in 6 people said if they knew about the laptop being genuine they wouldn’t have voted for Biden.

    People say all kinds of things which aren’t true, easy to say,

    Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5)

  120. you’ve minimized the connections in DC protecting Hunter and by definition his father. You ignore all the coverups and waiting for the statute of limitations to run out. You ignore that the higher ups in the FBI and DOJ were working against Trump from the get go yet act like he’s the reason people weren’t prosecuted.

    No, I’m just into your game of hyperbole and bullsh-t, Rob. You’re like the rest of the gang with Hunter Derangement Syndrome, you’re heavyweight on allegation and featherweight on evidence.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  121. not into your game…

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  122. Good grief, talk about “you are so blind”.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  123. 1 in 6 people said if they knew about the laptop being genuine they wouldn’t have voted for Biden.

    A poll taken in 1975 had a majority saying they had voted for McGovern.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  124. Re: Burisma — Shokin *did* seize some of Zlochevsky’s assets (yes?). So does this put the lie to the idea that he wasn’t investigating Burisma? Or is the idea that he wasn’t investigating very aggressively? or that he was using the assets as leverage to get bribes but not really interested in rooting out corruption? Or that once upon a time he investigated but then he stopped?

    I’m asking, Paul Montagu, because you seem to have your head around the facts and you said that Shokin wasn’t investigating Burisma. But at some point he did seize Zlochevsky’s assetts.

    The whole thing makes my head spin. Joe Biden should have steered way clear of that.

    JRH (fa2fc2)

  125. Rip Murdock (538961) — 8/27/2023 @ 11:51 am

    More on why no candidate polling less than 10% has a chance of winning the Republican nomination:

    …………..
    Trump’s team has the lead in both its understanding of the delegate process and the steps the team has taken to tilt the scales in their favor, according to over a dozen Republican state party officials, veteran strategists and campaign operatives interviewed by CNN. Those interviews, alongside ones done with the allies of Flordia Gov. Ron DeSantis and the Trump campaign officials focused on delegate math, respectively, paint a clear portrait of the state of play of a crucial part of the 2024 Republican primary.
    ……………
    …………… The campaign and candidate that best understand this process may gain an advantage over their opponents heading into 2024. It’s all about the delegate math. It’s a necessary fact that all campaigns need to keep in mind. Trump may be spurning other traditional parts of the Republican primary – like participating in debates, including the first one on Wednesday – but he and DeSantis both know that there is no path to victory without mastering the delegate process.
    …………..
    Over the last few months, the Trump team and the DeSantis team, in particular, have been working to learn and shape the delegate allocation process to ensure they get the most delegates possible – or at least hinder their respective opponents from getting as many delegates as they can.

    The fact that not every campaign has thus far taken a laser focus to the delegate process has shocked some veterans of past presidential campaigns.

    ………….. Several of Trump’s senior campaign advisers are extremely experienced in delegate strategy and have longstanding relationships with each state party. …………
    ………….
    …………. DeSantis’ team and allies are also seasoned strategists on the delegate front. …….
    ………….
    “Each of these (other) campaigns (are) banking on some scenario whereby Trump gets wounded – early – and somebody gets hot,” a veteran Republican strategist said. “There’s not going to be some long slog to the convention. Either Trump is going to roll this thing up or he’s going to die an unnatural death. If you’re in the race, that’s your theory.”
    …………..
    ………….(T)hroughout his presidency, (Trump) won over or molded certain state party leadership to be more sympathetic to him. There are also structural advantages that Trump’s team now enjoys that DeSantis’s team and allies do not.
    ……………
    The pro-DeSantis super PAC Never Back Down is running much of DeSantis’ political campaign from the outside. Many state parties only allow the campaigns themselves in the room for crucial talks, forcing Never Back Down to operate from a distance. ………..
    ……………
    DeSantis allies have discovered Trump’s loyalties in state Republican parties are tough to break through. Their push has run into headwinds in states like California, Massachusetts, Idaho, Colorado and Nevada, where Trump-aligned party leaders will ultimately decide the formula for awarding their delegates.
    …………..

    Rip Murdock (f27d0c)

  126. BTW, the “one in six would’ve changed their vote” assertion is a load of crap, Rob.
    Take the goggles off.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  127. The Washington Post has an excellent editorial today:

    The U.S. transition to cleaner energy technology is underway, supported by new incentives in the Inflation Reduction Act. Benefits to the planet could be significant. Yet so could the geopolitical risks to the United States. Moving from fossil fuels to wind and solar power means shifting from reliance on resources the United States produces to reliance on imported ones. And for many of the materials — lithium, nickel, copper, cobalt — the United States’ long-term adversary China is a key producer, processor or both.

    Although I will admit that the eidtorial is another example of better late than never. This is not a new problem.

    Green superstition has held back mining and processing in the US and — ironically — caused unnecessary damage to the environment. Some of the places where these materials are now mined and processed do not, to put it gently, meet US standards.

    Jim Miller (f2956e)

  128. I’m asking, Paul Montagu, because you seem to have your head around the facts and you said that Shokin wasn’t investigating Burisma. But at some point he did seize Zlochevsky’s assetts.

    These were assets that were seized due to a tax issue, which occurred shortly before Shokin became Chief Prosecutor and was status unchanged while he was in charge. The case was later resolved in November 2016, months after Shokin was sacked.

    The reality is that, while Shokin was in his job, any investigations of Burisma (and Friends of Poroshenko, whose wagon Shokin was hitched to) were dormant. US diplomats raised this issue

    Under the new regime, Shokin became prosecutor general in early 2015. But he failed “to indict any major figures from the Yanukovych administration for corruption,” according to testimony that John E. Herbst, a former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine under President George W. Bush, gave in March 2016 to a subcommittee of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

    “Ukraine has had a long line of prosecutors whose function has not been to enforce the law, but to perform the political function of selectively prosecuting political enemies and to hold out the threat of prosecution in order to secure political loyalty and compliance. Shokin was precisely that kind of prosecutor,” Keith Darden, an associate professor at American University’s School of International Service, told us in an email for a story last year. “He would open cases as a way of holding the threat of prosecution over a business, but he did not actually prosecute cases.”

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  129. El Segundo (CA) outscores Curaçao 6-5 with a walk off home run in the Little League World Series.

    Rip Murdock (f27d0c)

  130. @127:

    Aiko Toyoda, who retired as CEO of Toyota Motors this spring, thinks that the rush to EVs is premeature, at best.

    A Toyota memo to auto dealers in April explained the challenges to full electrification. For instance, “most public chargers can take anywhere from 8-30 hours to charge. To meet the federal [zero-emissions vehicle] sales targets, 1.2M public chargers are needed by 2030. That amounts to approximately 400 new chargers per day.” The U.S. isn’t close to meeting that goal.

    Toyota also noted that “more than 300 new lithium, cobalt, nickel and graphite mines are needed to meet the expected battery demand by 2035,” and they could take decades to develop. “The amount of raw materials in one long-range battery electric vehicle could instead be used to make 6 plug-in hybrid electric vehicles or 90 hybrid electric vehicles.”

    And here’s an even more striking statistic: “The overall carbon reduction of those 90 hybrids over their lifetimes is 37 times as much as a single battery electric vehicle.” These inconvenient truths undermine the climate religion and government mandates.

    Speaking of which, progressives have attacked Toyota for lobbying against aggressive EV mandates. Toyota backed the Trump Administration’s lawsuit against California’s stringent emissions rules. It also pressed West Virginia Sen. Joe Manchin to oppose a $4,500 tax credit bonus for union-made EVs. Toyota isn’t unionized and has a large plant in West Virginia.

    Mr. Toyoda deserves support for speaking the truth about EVs, and it’s a shame he’s the only auto leader with the courage to do it.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/targeting-toyota-for-its-electric-vehicle-heresy-akio-toyoda-hybrids-ev-climate-change-b5f67d6c

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  131. Trump continues to embrace the January 6th insurrectionists:

    Donald Trump attended a fundraising dinner for January 6th defendants at his Bedminster, N.J., golf club on Tuesday night, ahead of the first Republican presidential debate and his own arrest in Atlanta.

    People shouted ‘our hero’ and ‘we love Trump’ at him as he walked into the ballroom, according to videos posted on social media.

    The dinner benefited the Patriot Freedom Project, the controversial nonprofit that supports those criminally charged in the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol, who they describe as ‘political prisoners.’
    ………….
    ‘What happened is just horrible,’ Trump told the crowd, according to a video provided to DailyMail.com.

    ‘It’s so unfair. It would be one thing if everyone was treated equally,’ he said. ‘People who have been treated unfairly are going to be treated extremely, extremely fairly.’
    ………….
    Trump also addressed a Patriot Freedom Project fundraiser at his New Jersey club in June.

    ‘I’m gonna make a contribution,’ he told the crowd at the time. ‘There have been few people that have been treated in the history of our country like the people that you love, like the people that have gone through so much.’
    …………..

    Rip Murdock (f27d0c)

  132. The dinner benefited the Patriot Freedom Project, the controversial nonprofit that supports those criminally charged in the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol, who they describe as ‘political prisoners.’

    Bet you the money goes to Defendant Uno.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  133. The New York Post had a big front page headline yesterday about Hunter and Joe being bribed (to fire the prosecutor) and an editorial and this was covered by Fox News Sunday as well.

    They are actually using a careful selection of facts, because Joe Biden made the whole story up about causing the firing of Viktor Shokin (but can’t say so) and he was not in charge of Obama’s Ukrainian policy and the loan guarantees were not made until June, 2016.

    Viktor Shokin was interviewed (where he says he doesn’t want to go beyond what he knows) by kilmeade and Jonathan Turley said on Fox News it was interesting that Shokin said he was not interviewed before – but he was interviewed by Giuliani in 2019 – maybe that doesn’t count.

    Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5)

  134. Bet you the money goes to Defendant Uno.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/27/2023 @ 3:05 pm

    The cost of holding it at Bedminster probably left very little for the prisoners.

    Rip Murdock (f27d0c)

  135. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/justice/trump-special-counsel-jack-smith-involved-lois-lerner-irs-scandal

    Newly appointed special counsel Jack Smith was instrumental in the Justice Department’s public integrity unit inserting itself into the Lois Lerner IRS scandal targeting conservative nonprofit groups.

    Smith, picked by Attorney General Merrick Garland to helm the DOJ’s investigations of former President Donald Trump, led the Public Integrity Section from 2010 until early 2015.

    Lerner, director of the IRS’s Exempt Organizations Unit, led an IRS effort targeting Tea Party groups and similar conservative nonprofit organizations. Smith’s push for DOJ officials to contact Lerner and the IRS in order to get the DOJ involved seemed to be the impetus behind the IRS sending the FBI reams of nonprofit tax records.

    An IRS watchdog and the DOJ later admitted the IRS committed wrongdoing, although not of the criminal variety. Lerner would apologize.

    Republicans unsuccessfully sought a special counsel to investigate the IRS scandal at the time, with Smith’s actions cited as one reason.

    “Jack Smith was looking for ways to prosecute the innocent Americans that Lois Lerner targeted during the IRS scandal,” Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH), expected to lead the House Judiciary Committee next year, told the Washington Examiner.

    Jordan and Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA), who led House Oversight, sought Smith’s testimony in May 2014, saying, “It is apparent that the Department’s leadership, including Public Integrity Section Chief Jack Smith, was closely involved in engaging with the IRS.”

    Memories.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  136. Sammy,

    you keep pounding that square peg into that round hole. It’s strange.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  137. Paul,

    thanks for citing a leftist cite to support a leftist lie. I would’ve expected nothing less.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  138. It’s not whataboutism in the slightest, but you know that. It just doesn’t support your agenda so you ignore it.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 8/27/2023 @ 4:32 am

    The most charitable explanation I can fathom for the claim that “Now do the DOJ and Hunter Biden” isn’t whataboutism is being honestly ignorant of what whataboutism is. “Now do [X],” without addressing the merits of the argument you’re responding to is the very definition of whataboutism. “Now do” has the same evasive effect as “whatabout.”

    Stop embarrassing yourself, Rob, and stop mind-reading the motives of anyone who points out a fallacy in your tribal blather. You don’t do yourself any favors with that either.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  139. So, Hunter Biden was on the board of a corrupt company under a corrupt Ukraine government and we are arguing about what happened after the Ukrainian leader was deposed? That the new investigator was corrupt, too, does not change the sewer that Hunter Biden found so lucrative.

    Trump wanted the new regime to investigate Hunter and Burisma. All this fighting over Shokin is at best misdirection. Trump didn’t particularly care who investigated, he just wanted the obvious dirt to be made public. Biden didn’t want that.

    The Ukrainians did not want to get between Trump and Biden, of course. I really don’t care about the details.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  140. Hmmm. That’s a bit far back, I think. Disregarding any number of Dixiecrats (Thurmond, Maddox, George Wallace), or Henry Wallace who missed the Presidency by a few months, there was the Kingfisher himself, Huey Long. Only his providential assassination kept him from challenging FDR in 1936 as a socialist populist in the middle of the Depression.

    To my knowledge there’s no authoritative standard of political dangerousness. My ad hoc measure is the intersection of lawless authoritarian aspiration on one axis, and the power to implement it on the other. Comparing the aspirations of individuals from different eras is dodgy at best, but the other axis, i.e., power, makes this assessment easy IMO.

    No doubt there are countless miscreants who, given the ability, would do more harm than Trump. Fortunately, most of them will never leave their mothers’ basements. The individuals you mentioned did get pretty high in the political order, but the leap from where they landed to President of the United States is still categorically huge. By becoming President, Trump’s power to implement his depraved, anti-constitutional agenda so dwarfed that of anyone else with comparably evil aspirations that I’m comfortable declaring him the most dangerous. Of course, YMMV.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  141. My disagreement with you is not about Trump or his behavior, but about practical politics which do not seem to enter your decision process. In an ideal world, sure, all of them should throw Trump to the curb. But if instead your desire is to save the GOP from the sewer, you have to make do with what you have.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/27/2023 @ 9:43 am

    By most measures I’m an extreme pragmatist. I have neither party nor ideological affiliation. Crazy though it may sound nowadays, I still believe leaders from across the political landscape should cooperate to implement the best policies they can cobble together, wherever the votes come from, and whoever’s ox is gored. But even my pragmatism has limits. I may not bow to party or ideology, but I do have principles. At some point my pragmatism gives way to my principles.

    One of those principles is the supremacy of the rule of law. Refusing to categorically repudiate someone who broke a law or three, e.g., Nixon and Clinton, I can live with. But refusing to repudiate someone who breaks laws with reckless abandon, routinely expresses contempt for the rule of law itself, and indeed actively attempted to overthrow the constitutional transfer of power, well that crosses my red line. That’s where my pragmatism gives way to my principles. Again, YMMV.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  142. Trump wanted the new regime to investigate Hunter and Burisma.

    That’s incorrect. He wanted them to announce an investigation. He didn’t care if they actually performed it. For purposes of his culpability, that difference is determinative.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  143. A Fool for A Client:

    …………..
    Brandon Fellows was initially arrested 10 days after the Capitol riot in January 2021. He first faced misdemeanor charges but was later indicted on a felony charge of obstruction of an official proceeding and aiding and abetting.

    Fellows had been held in pretrial custody since mid-2021. He was detained because, while he was on pretrial release in his Jan. 6 case, he called his probation officer’s mother and reportedly harassed a former girlfriend, in violation of a state protection order. In recent court filings, he called U.S. District Judge Trevor McFadden corrupt and biased.

    Fellows (representing himself) told jurors that he believes Jan. 6 “was a beautiful day.” ………..
    …………….
    “I truly do like the fact that those senators and congressman were in fear for their lives,” Fellows told jurors near the end of his roughly 19-minute opening statement, doubling down on statements he had made on social media in the wake of the riot.
    …………….
    Fellows compared his situation to the allegations of sexual assault leveled against Kavanaugh, claiming that he, too, has faced false accusations. He said that he believed members of the public were convinced by “weak arguments” and argued that jurors should not “fall for the tricks of prosecutors.”

    He said jurors should understand why Kavanaugh was emotional and angry when spoke about the allegations against him during his testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee when he was a nominee for the Supreme Court in 2018. He also indicated that he’ll keep referring to Kavanaugh’s situation during his trial.
    …………..
    After he entered the Capitol through a broken window, Fellows made his way to the office of Sen. Jeff Merkley, R-Ore., where he put his feet up on a table and smoked marijuana, (Assistant U.S. Attorney Carolina Nevin) said, showing jurors another photo of Fellows taken in the office.

    Nevin also showed jurors excerpts from social media posts after the riot in which Fellows expressed pride in his actions and said he hoped members of Congress would “live in constant fear.”

    “Those aren’t funny at all,” Nevin said.
    …………….

    Rip Murdock (f27d0c)

  144. In an ideal world, sure, all of them should throw Trump to the curb. But if instead your desire is to save the GOP from the sewer, you have to make do with what you have.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/27/2023 @ 9:43 am

    The Republican Party will never go back to what was; it has been fundamentally transformed by Trump. See here as to how it has changed.

    Rip Murdock (f27d0c)

  145. The Republican Party will never go back to what was; it has been fundamentally transformed by Trump.

    Mostly true. But not entirely true. For example, there is still some hope that it won’t be all swindlers and con men. IF it is, if they cannot get rid of Trump himself, the GOP will be consigned to the ash heap of history and some new center-right party will form.

    When Jackson took over the Democrat-Republican Party, the era of Good Feelings ended and the party fractured in the Democrats and the National Republicans. The latter fell apart, reformed as the Whigs, fell apart again and reformed as a coalition opposed to slavery. THAT party ruled for half a century, with only one Democrat President between 1861 and 1912.

    Not sure what follows the GOP, but nominating a multiply-convicted felon will be the end of it. Hopefully a party based on federalism, but it might not get back into the game for decades and meanwhile EVERY SINGLE THING that Trump supporters care about will be gone, down to private property.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  146. That’s incorrect. He wanted them to announce an investigation. He didn’t care if they actually performed it. For purposes of his culpability, that difference is determinative.

    I agree with the first part. Not sure what you mean by the second, or the antecedent of “his” in the last sentence.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  147. One of those principles is the supremacy of the rule of law.

    I agree, and think that not convicting Trump in 2021 was a crime. But Trump stands on the backs of countless con men here; the Rule of Law would not have allowed Trump’s attack had it not been so badly and frequently wounded.

    Case in point: the idea that an executive can pick and choose what laws, or parts of laws, to enforce. Once that became acceptable, the Rule of Law no longer existed. All that was left was its use as a weapon.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  148. Great comments, lurker.

    DRJ (2b49a4)

  149. thanks for citing a leftist cite to support a leftist lie. I would’ve expected nothing less.

    Rob, anything to the left of Boehner is left-wing and socialist in your right-wing hyperpartisan brain, so I’ll take your idiot comment with all the weight it deserves.

    Pulling the thread a little further on that “one in six” poll, and because you’re too close-minded to actually read the link because it’s “leftist”, here’s the actual poll question…

    “At the time you cast your vote for president, were you aware that evidence exists, including bank transactions the FBI is currently investigating, that directly links Joe Biden and his family to a corrupt financial arrangement between a Chinese company with connections to the Chinese Communist Party that was secretly intended to provide the Biden family with tens of millions of dollars in profits?”

    The question itself is a lie, because no evidence existed on or before the 2020 election–and there still isn’t any evidence–of any direct financial links to Joe Biden. It’s a bullsh-t dishonest question, in a “poll” filled with politically manipulative questions, and any dolt from FoxNews (I’m looking at you, Kilmeade) who cites this poll is, once again, showing you that they’re FoxPropaganda, not FoxNews.

    I remember a time when the Dems used to be referred as the Mommy Party and the GOP the Daddy Party, because the GOP was supposed to be less emotional and more factual, but today’s GOP is the Emotional Hormonal Angry Sullen Teenager Party. It’s sickening.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  150. BTW, I agree with Sammy that Biden was lying about his role in the firing of Shokin. Biden was dishonestly trying to sound like a tough guy, that he could get sh-t done. It’s not a big issue, but it’s an issue of his dishonesty. Using local references, does his Cherry Creek Falls of lies compare to Trump’s Snoqualmie Falls of lies? No, but Biden’s lies still need to be called out, while still noting that Trump is basically a conveyor belt of bullsh-t and falsehoods.

    And while we’re on Biden, his responses to the Lahaina wildfire were beyond lame, from initially saying “no comment”, which is stupid, to likening the Maui inferno to a small kitchen fire at his house that threatened his precious ‘Vette. It was good that he went there, but he mostly mentally checked out.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  151. In case Pat is looking for a substack topic, I offer the following:

    How does the Rule of Law survive when enforcement of Laws is optional? How do legislatures compromise when the executive can later ignore those parts of the law he doesn’t favor?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  152. I agree with the first part. Not sure what you mean by the second, or the antecedent of “his” in the last sentence.

    I meant Trump’s desire that Ukraine announce but not perform an investigation proves he was corruptly motivated by personal political benefit, not the furtherance of U.S. government policy.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  153. Thanks, DRJ! Coming from you, that’s high praise.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  154. Supreme court justice kagan we need ethic rules like other judges. Justice sammy the fish alito: we don’t need no stinking ethics rules! Were republicans we have always followed the golden rule. Those with the gold rule! Saint reagan.

    asset (15dd95)

  155. he was corruptly motivated by personal political benefit

    Now there’s a first for a president! Or any politician. Why do you suppose presidents put tariffs on steel imports, or fund boondoggle bullet trains from Bakersfield to Modesto?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  156. There are lots of things to fault Trump for, but mundane poltical transgressions are not really very interesting. Which is why I thought the first impeachment was nothing but counting coup.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  157. blockquote>Case in point: the idea that an executive can pick and choose what laws, or parts of laws, to enforce. …….

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/27/2023 @ 6:56 pm

    The Supreme Court has long recognized the right of the Executive Branch to prioritize the enforcement of laws. For example, in US v. Texas (2023), Texas and Louisiana sued the federal government to compel enforcement of sections of the Immigration and Naturalization Act they read to require the arrest of certain noncitizens upon their release from prison (8 U. S. C. §1226(c)) or entry of a final order of removal (§1231(a)(2)):

    ………. Article II of the Constitution assigns the “executive Power” to the President and provides that the President “shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed.” U. S. Const., Art. II, §1, cl. 1; §3. Under Article II, the Executive Branch possesses authority to decide “how to prioritize and how aggressively to pursue legal actions against defendants who violate the law.” TransUnion LLC v. Ramirez (2021), 594 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 13); see Lujan v. Defenders of Wildlife (1992), 504 U. S., at 576-578; Allen v. Wright (1984), 468 U. S., at 760-761. The Executive Branch–not the Judiciary–makes arrests and prosecutes offenses on behalf of the United States. See United States v. Nixon, 418 U. S. 683, 693 (1974) (“the Executive Branch has exclusive authority and absolute discretion to decide whether to prosecute a case”); Printz v. United States, 521 U. S. 898, 922-923 (1997) (Brady Act provisions held unconstitutional because, among other things, they transferred power to execute federal law to state officials); United States v. Armstrong, 517 U. S. 456, 464 (1996) (decisions about enforcement of “the Nation’s criminal laws” lie within the “special province of the Executive” (internal quotation marks omitted)); Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U. S. 1, 138 (1976) (“A lawsuit is the ultimate remedy for a breach of the law, and it is to the President, and not to the Congress, that the Constitution entrusts the responsibility to ‘take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed’ ” (quoting U. S. Const., Art. II, §3)); see also United States v. Cox, 342 F. 2d 167, 171 (CA5 1965).

    That principle of enforcement discretion over arrests and prosecutions extends to the immigration context, where the Court has stressed that the Executive’s enforcement discretion implicates not only “normal domestic law enforcement priorities” but also “foreign-policy objectives.” Reno v. American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Comm., 525 U. S. 471, 490-491 (1999). In line with those principles, this Court has declared that the Executive Branch also retains discretion over whether to remove a noncitizen from the United States. Arizona v. United States, 567 U. S. 387, 396 (2012) (“Federal officials, as an initial matter, must decide whether it makes sense to pursue removal at all”).

    …………. After all, the Executive Branch must prioritize its enforcement efforts. See Wayte v. United States, 470 U. S. 598, 607-608 (1985). That is because the Executive Branch (i) invariably lacks the resources to arrest and prosecute every violator of every law and (ii) must constantly react and adjust to the ever-shifting public-safety and public-welfare needs of the American people.

    ………….(T)he Executive Branch does not possess the resources necessary to arrest or remove all of the noncitizens covered by (the Immigration and Naturalization Act’s) §1226(c) and §1231(a)(2). That reality is not an anomaly–it is a constant. For the last 27 years since §1226(c) and §1231(a)(2) were enacted in their current form, all five Presidential administrations have determined that resource constraints necessitated prioritization in making immigration arrests.
    ………….

    Rip Murdock (f27d0c)

  158. There are lots of things to fault Trump for, but mundane poltical transgressions are not really very interesting. Which is why I thought the first impeachment was nothing but counting coup.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/27/2023 @ 10:59 pm

    Mundane political transgression? To refresh our memory, we’re talking about Congressionally appropriated funds needed by a burgeoning democracy to resist Putin’s project to conquer it piecemeal and absorb it into Russia. And Trump held those funds hostage for the sole purpose of extracting a promise, never delivered, to make a sham announcement of a non-existent investigation. And he did it solely for his personal benefit, and contrary to our national policy as articulated by both Congress and the White House. And then of course — because why wouldn’t he? — he lied about the “perfect conversation,” and has been doing so ever since.

    Whether all that was impeachable is debatable*, since everything about what’s impeachable is debatable. But I’d hope we could all at least agree that, impeachable or not, what he did was evil and corrupt. To my mind, as political transgressions go, that one was more than mundane.

    (* I thought the stronger counts that should have been brought, but never were, were for the obstructions of justice detailed in the Mueller Report.)

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  159. “but mundane poltical transgressions are not really very interesting”

    His advisors and staff understood clearly that he was doing something wrong and tried to hide the phone call evidence. I think we’re all just numb to a president who is willing to act this recklessly. He knew the Senate wouldn’t do a damn thing…and he was right. The GOP has had so many opportunities to get rid of Trump, yet we continue to listen to the most vile amongst us.

    AJ_Liberty (47987f)

  160. Well said, lurker, and I also agree about Trump’s obstruction of justice, which Barr effectively killed with his lies about the Mueller report.
    I would add that whenever Trump uses the word “perfect”, mentally replace the term with “dumpster fire”, as in, those were dumpster fire calls with Zelenskyy and Raffensperger.

    The other part of his “evil and corrupt” and “do us a favor” call with Zelenskyy was his enlisting the Ukrainian president to look into this Crowdstrike server that was supposedly somewhere in Ukraine, which not only does exist there but exemplified Trump’s ongoing denial that Russia was behind the DNC hacking operation and instead implied that Ukraine was somehow involved. It’s an overflowing barrel-load of sh-t and again captured his delusional take on events and gave Putin the benefit of the doubt.

    Oh, and thank you norcal and DRJ for the feedback.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  161. So mamy angels on the head of a pin.

    I love the way so many pretend to want to hold people accountable while bending over backwards to protect the criminal Biden enterprise.

    Then they claim to be nonpartisan… with a straight face no less.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  162. Rob, show us the evidence that Joe Biden took this money.
    This isn’t about me or others “bending over backwards to protect the criminal Biden enterprise”, it’s about you and rest of the Trump goose-steppers backing up your claim.
    Don’t burden-shift, man up and prove your case. Serious allegations should require serious proof.

    BTW, the first segment on Fox & Friends this AM was the replay of Kilmeade’s uncritical softball interview of Shokin, which only furthered the dishonest propaganda coming out of this so-called news channel.

    And for the record, I never claimed to be “nonpartisan”. I’m a Republican and NeverTrump and NeverBiden and NeverHillary and NeverRamaswamy and, if the TX Senator ever crawls out from his political rock and runs for prez, NeverCruz.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  163. “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.”

    nk (3e90f3)

  164. Rob, do you ever clean your own house or is it only your neighbor’s house that requires cleaning?

    AJ_Liberty (3c0ca6)

  165. Regarding the Heritage Foundation, which has taken a disturbing non-conservative populist change turn on policy, Randy Mott notes the time when the think tank reversed its pro-Ukraine stance to pro-Hungarian (and, by extension, pro-Putin).

    By March 2023, Heritage and the Danube Institute (chiefly owned by the Hungarian government) signed sa cooperation agreement.
    https://hungarianconservative.com/articles/current/cooperation_agreement_heritage_foundation_danube_institute/

    Prior to that agreement, the #HeritageFoundation was taking an aggressively pro-Ulkrainian stance.

    “In the months leading up to the vote on the Ukraine aid bill, Heritage’s policy experts argued in favor of an aggressive American role in the conflict, including huge amounts of aid.” NYT, May 27, 2023.

    https://heritage.org/defense/heritage-explains/the-path-forward-ukraine

    One of their fellows posted on twitter and was ordered to delete it:
    https://web.archive.org/web/20220511011610/https://twitter.com/lukedcoffey/status/1524196553438728192

    After that Hungarian deal, #HeritageFoundation completely flips its position on Ukraine, actually opposing U.S. aid. “Jessica Anderson, the executive director of Heritage’s lobbying operation, released a searing statement — its headline blaring “Ukraine Aid Package Puts America Last” — that framed the measure as reckless and ill-considered.” NYT, May 27, 2023.

    Then comes the Heritage ad buy in August 2023.
    What communications did they have on this with the Hungarian Government through the Danube Institute or otherwise? Orban has been an unspoken supporter of Russia in the Ukraine war, repeating many common Kremlin propaganda lines that were repeated in the Heritage ad. It seems to be no coincidence.

    Heritage has a one-voice policy, that if they make a statement on an issue, all Heritage staffers are forbidden from publishing dissenting views, which is something Orban would approve of.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  166. What some comrades do not grasp is that they no longer need Joe Biden to be The Person Worse Than Trump. They have Vivek Ramaswamy.

    nk (beabc9)

  167. AJ,

    deflecting yet again. I’m not surprised. It’s your go to and how you can defend Biden over and over again while pretending to be a Repubkican that only attacks Republicans.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  168. @164, the answer to your question is “No”. Even if a member of his team did something bad admitting it would be way to painful for him to even contemplate.

    Time123 (39dd7d)

  169. In a lighter note this is hilarious!

    Time123 (39dd7d)

  170. The Supreme Court has long recognized the right of the Executive Branch to prioritize the enforcement of laws.

    Prioritize does not mean “ignore them entirely for ideological reasons.” To do so is in gross violation of the oath to “faithfully execute.”

    A CATO paper that makes all my points argues the following basic principle [citations omitted]:

    The relevant clause of the Constitution, which should be the lodestar of this discussion, is the Take Care Clause: “The President … shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed.“2 To put these recent controversies in constitutional context, it is essential to understand the meaning and purpose of this Clause. As always, it is best to begin by parsing the constitutional text.

    First, notice that this Clause does not grant power but rather imposes a duty: “The President … shall take Care…“ This is not optional; it is mandatory. Second, note that the duty is personal. Execution of the laws may be delegated, but the duty to “take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed“ is the President’s alone. Third, notice that the President is not required to take care that the laws be “completely” executed; that would be impossible given finite resources. The President does have power to make enforcement choices — however, he must make them “faithfully.” Finally, it is important to remember the historical context of the clause: English kings had claimed the power to suspend laws unilaterally, but the Framers expressly rejected that practice. Here, the executive would be obliged to “take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed.“

    Question: If a GOP president told the IRS not to enforce the Alternative Minimum Tax, or even the Capital Gains Tax, and to remit any monies paid under them, would that be a problem? Is the only remedy impeachment? Or can a court order him to “prioritize” IRS activity differently?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  171. So, when a president starts a trade war with Europe or Asia, as a result of imposing tariffs on some commodity like steel, it’s not corrupt? Because presidents of both parties have done things like that before elections to gain electoral votes in states (e.g. PA) where domestic industries are helped by the protectionism. There are definite effects on foreign relations and partnerships, and whole industries worldwide are affected.

    I’m not defending Trump vs Zelensky. Not only was it corrupt, it was ham-handed (a Trump trademark) and stupid. But it was not different in kind than many things that our presidents have done in the past. Most attempt more subtlety, of course, and we do not know what they say on those calls most of the time. I imagine a conversation between Obama and Pakistan, circa 2010, might have been testy and involved threats.

    You argue that it was different in degree, and you may have a point (much of what has been done before is not open to inspection). Is it up there with, say, the Gulf of Tonkin deception or Kennedy’s last-minute betrayal at the Bay of Pigs? Or even Obama’s unilateral withdrawal from Iraq to help his re-election?

    Probably not.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  172. In a lighter note this is hilarious!

    And brutal.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  173. Heritage Foundation

    I have never been impressed by anything they have said. They’re as predictable and as malleable as the NY Times editorial page discussing the filibuster.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  174. If a GOP president told the IRS not to enforce the Alternative Minimum Tax, or even the Capital Gains Tax, and to remit any monies paid under them, would that be a problem? Is the only remedy impeachment? Or can a court order him to “prioritize” IRS activity differently?

    Impeachment would be the appropriate response as the Court in Texas (2023) has said (referring to immigration enforcement priorities) “courts generally lack meaningful standards for assessing the propriety of enforcement choices…….” The same would hold true regarding tax policy.

    I noticed in the CATO paper there are very few legal citations supporting their position, the citations are mostly media or White House press releases.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  175. So, when a president starts a trade war with Europe or Asia, as a result of imposing tariffs on some commodity like steel, it’s not corrupt?

    Or when a Presidential candidate proposes to do so……

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  176. NJRob (eb56c3) — 8/27/2023 @ 3:33 pm

    you keep pounding that square peg into that round hole. It’s strange.

    I don’t know which of the things i say different you are referring to. But people have all sorts of thigs all wrong.

    Joe Biden made the story up. Trump never tried to strike a bargain with Ukraine in exchange for resumption of military aid – Mick McValney (probably) and Gordon Sondland and they did not have Trump
    s buy-in into that — only hope. There’s other things wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5)

  177. Breaking-

    Federal judge sets March trial date in Trump’s election interference case

    The judge overseeing former President Donald Trump’s election interference case in federal court set a trial date for March 4, 2024, a schedule that could have a crucial impact on the 2024 race for the White House.

    U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan’s decision sets the trial in the middle of the Republican presidential primaries and the day before Super Tuesday.

    During a hearing on Monday, Chutkan heard arguments from Trump’s lawyers and federal prosecutors about when the case could be set for trial. Special counsel Jack Smith proposed that the trial start in January, with jury selection beginning in December of this year, while Trump’s team said the trial should be pushed back until April 2026, after the presidential election.

    “These proposals are obviously very far apart,” Chutkan said Monday. “Neither of them is acceptable.”

    Chutkan said that Trump will have to prioritize the trial and that she wouldn’t change the trial schedule based upon another defendant’s professional obligations, say, for a professional athlete.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  178. Trump, co-defendants to be arraigned in Georgia on Sept. 6

    It’s gonna be a busy day……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  179. Regarding the Heritage Foundation, which has taken a disturbing non-conservative populist change turn on policy…….

    They know which way the wind blows, and the wind blows from Mar-A-Lago. The Claremont Institute is another think tank that has bowed to the MAL winds.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  180. @91

    Maybe a red flag law could’ve prevented the Jacksonville dollar store shooter from getting a semiautomatic weapon, given that he was detained by law enforcement for mental health reasons.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/26/2023 @ 9:23 pm

    No.

    Red flag laws isn’t the panacea for this.

    All red flag laws does is bar legal purchases of firearms. If evil doers are wanting to mass murder people, they’ll ignore the legal prohibitions.

    whembly (96342a)

  181. So, when a president starts a trade war with Europe or Asia, as a result of imposing tariffs on some commodity like steel, it’s not corrupt?

    It may or not be corrupt, but it is illegal under the 52 US Code 30121 to enlist a foreign power to assist in an American electoral campaign.
    Far as I know, a president has the authority under law lift or levy tariffs.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  182. @139

    So, Hunter Biden was on the board of a corrupt company under a corrupt Ukraine government and we are arguing about what happened after the Ukrainian leader was deposed? That the new investigator was corrupt, too, does not change the sewer that Hunter Biden found so lucrative.

    Trump wanted the new regime to investigate Hunter and Burisma. All this fighting over Shokin is at best misdirection. Trump didn’t particularly care who investigated, he just wanted the obvious dirt to be made public. Biden didn’t want that.

    The Ukrainians did not want to get between Trump and Biden, of course. I really don’t care about the details.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/27/2023 @ 4:38 pm

    That’s the gist as I see it.

    Trump engaged in the aged-old-political-tactics of trying to dig up dirt on a likely political opponent (Biden hasn’t announced yet), using the pretext of “rooting out corruption”.

    The Biden’s and connected allies successfully garnered political outrage that led to the 1st impeachment.

    The State’s department muddied the waters because they’ve spent so much resources in ousting the previous Ukrainian Putie-poo government and fought like the dickens to maintain status quo.

    The media had a feeding frenzy that makes it neigh impossible to determine what actually happened, who actually had authority, did he or did he not investigate. The media really doesn’t have any credibility to ‘appeal to authority’ here.

    And the Ukrainians absolutely didn’t want to get in between any US political squabbles that may threaten the gravy train.

    whembly (6c6692)

  183. Impeachment would be the appropriate response as the Court in Texas (2023) has said (referring to immigration enforcement priorities) “courts generally lack meaningful standards for assessing the propriety of enforcement choices…….” The same would hold true regarding tax policy.

    I started this talking about the damage done to the Rule of Law. If the ONLY way to stop a President from gross maladministration favoring chosen groups or individuals is impeachment (generally impossible) then we must admit that the “Rule of Law” has been replaced by arbitrary diktats from a sovereign ruler.

    The only bound is that the ruler must not be so arbitrary as to piss off too much of his own party, a bound that Trump has seemed to stretch to the breaking point and Biden is continuing the damage.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  184. And the Ukrainians absolutely didn’t want to get in between any US political squabbles that may threaten the gravy train.

    This I quibble with. The Ukrainians at that point were faced with an existential threat and the goodwill of the United States was critical to their survival. They did not want to become a chew toy for out partisan struggles.

    I think that Trump siding with Putin is just another example of his vindictive nature. He remains angry that they didn’t investigate Hunter and that is the SOLE point of decision for him. The problem with Trump is not his pressure on Ukraine, but his incredibly self-centered decision-making process in general.

    I am far more concerned with his approach to problems than I am by the tools he uses to solve them.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  185. Haley, Pence get huge bump after debate, Trump declines, DeSantis, Ramaswamy flat.

    https://emersoncollegepolling.com/august-2023-national-poll-trump-debate-snub-may-open-door-for-other-candidates/

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  186. @141

    But refusing to repudiate someone who breaks laws with reckless abandon, routinely expresses contempt for the rule of law itself, and indeed actively attempted to overthrow the constitutional transfer of power, well that crosses my red line. That’s where my pragmatism gives way to my principles. Again, YMMV.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/27/2023 @ 6:12 pm

    Yeah, I will object to the framing of “overthrow the constitutional transfer of power” till the day I die.

    Trump and his flunkies tried to political twist arms, make their cases in court and made their case in public opinions. Talking about Trump here, these were in many cases morally reprehensible, but legal. (I’m excluding certain individual who obviously broke the law, like that one guy stealing voting data and nothing in the indictment links this person’s illegal acts to Trump imo.)

    We dun “f’ed” up in not convicting Trump on J7 at the 2nd impeachment trial. Trump and his flunkies were outrageous wrong and the proper political consequences should’ve been him convicted, and forever barred in future offices.

    But… yes, there’s a but here…

    I feel like this current conversation is about the pragmatic choice of Trump v. Biden (imma vomit)…

    I can make the case that Biden, is/was just as bad as Trump morally during his presidency. These are not to be distilled as “policy differences” that we must afford to our political adversaries simply because we disagreed with a particular policy.

    Nay, Biden has flouted the law and is in direction of his duties as POTUS to faithfully uphold the law. Some examples are:
    -Eviction moratorium
    -School loan relief
    -Southern Borders

    I can spend all day listing out how Biden is totally unqualified for POTUS.

    Special mention is the Afghanistan withdrawal… that was just pure stupidity for naked partisan desires that costs lives.

    All of which, is impeachable. To me, I don’t care about how the Biden’s chose to enrich themselves as it’s a sideshow. Biden’s own policies and his dereliction of duties is impeachable enough.

    If, again, we’re facing candidate Trump versus Joe Biden… when you pit these two uniquely unacceptable choices. Yes, pragmatism should rule the day.

    For me, pragmatism demands to I should focus on which candidate would advance my preferred policies, as the time to fight for your desired candidate is during my party’s primary season. After that, I must support the candidate, as Democrat these days seeks to fundamentally change how I and my family must live with.

    The weakest candidate in this election has to be Trump. That’s why I’m adamant that we must select someone, other than Trump, in this Primary. Any of those yahoos can easily beat Biden (and even someone like Gavin Newson).

    whembly (96342a)

  187. @162

    Rob, show us the evidence that Joe Biden took this money.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/28/2023 @ 5:29 am

    Paul,

    How about you explain how is it that Joe Biden is fabulously wealthy being in government since most of us was born?

    It doesn’t add up.

    The most charitable explanation is this: he was able to leverage is Congressional years to engage in “insider trading” that Congressman cannot be charged with.

    Or, he and/or his wife got plenty of “speaking engagement” fees.

    Still. Doesn’t quite add up.

    I’m sure you were all interested in how the Trumps were making their money. Why not the Bidens?

    whembly (96342a)

  188. BTW, I watched that entire debate and it was excellent, at least as far as seeing the candidates positions and ability to think on their feet.

    My takeaways:

    Nikki Haley is a force to be reckoned with.
    Vivek Ramaswamy is an attention-seeking troll.
    Tim Scott is not bright enough to be president.
    Chris Christie is a stand-up guy. He would be a great Cabinet Secretary, but he cannot help win elections this time around.
    Ron DeSantis is a bit weird and his focus is on the Culture War.
    Mike Pence has a HUGE stick up his ass, but I do not doubt his convictions. He would bore America to death.
    Doug Bergum could not tell me why he is running.
    Asa Hutchinson is far too moderate for today’s GOP. He reminds me too much of Mr Rogers.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  189. If the ONLY way to stop a President from gross maladministration favoring chosen groups or individuals is impeachment (generally impossible) then we must admit that the “Rule of Law” has been replaced by arbitrary diktats from a sovereign ruler.

    Impeachment isn’t the only remedy. Congress can pass a law repudiating a President’s policy choices, and we have seen the courts blocking enforcement of Trump’s and Biden’s executive orders.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  190. Yeah, I will object to the framing of “overthrow the constitutional transfer of power” till the day I die.

    Well, that’s your right, of course, but Trump’s pressure on Pence to do exactly that is pretty persuasive that was his intention. I also believe that he instigated the invasion of the Capitol and was pleased by it. His unwillingness to put a stop to it despite please from everyone close to him is informative on that point.

    Do you think that the riot surprised him?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  191. Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/28/2023 @ 10:11 am

    LOL! See my posts 118 here and 125 here why this is so funny.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  192. Congress can pass a law repudiating a President’s policy choices.

    2/3rds vote in each house. Right.

    and we have seen the courts blocking enforcement of Trump’s and Biden’s executive orders.

    Most of those judicial acts have been political, not based on law either (e.g. those Hawaiian judges who blocked Trump’s lawful orders based on their opinion of Trump’s motives). The disease is metastasizing.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  193. LOL! See my posts 118 here and 125 here why this is so funny.

    Those posts were indeed pretty funny. Last month’s conventional wisdom usually is.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  194. Did you watch all of the debate, Rip?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  195. The weakest candidate in this election has to be Trump. That’s why I’m adamant that we must select someone, other than Trump, in this Primary. Any of those yahoos can easily beat Biden (and even someone like Gavin Newson).

    Actually, there are other weak candidates (Hutchinson, Bergum, Pence) and one (Vamaswamy) who would be worse than Trump in office. Christie would normally be a strong candidate, but may get too many Republicans to stay home this cycle.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  196. Last month’s conventional wisdom usually is.
    ……….
    Did you watch all of the debate, Rip?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/28/2023 @ 10:22 am

    Yes, and I saw nothing to suggest that any of the Lilliputians have the stomach to either take on Trump (with the exception of Christie and Hutchinson, both non-entities.) Aside from wishcasting, there is no evidence of any movement of Republican support from Trump to the Lilliputians. You can be impressed as much as you want, but we’ll see what the polling is a month from now. I will guess it won’t be much different that it is today.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  197. Aside from wishcasting, there is no evidence of any movement of Republican support from Trump to the Lilliputians.

    Or between Lilliputians.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  198. How about you explain how is it that Joe Biden is fabulously wealthy being in government since most of us was born?

    “Fabulously”? No.

    On the day America’s first billionaire president took office, “middle class” Joe Biden boarded the Amtrak out of Washington D.C.’s Union Station, bound for Delaware with the kind of modest fortune you might expect from someone who had spent his adult life as an elected official: $2.5 million, mostly composed of pensions and real estate.

    Joe gained most of his wealth after his VP gig was over, like any other ex-prez or ex-VP. If you want to note someone who really cashed in, Obama is worth a cool $70 mil.

    Also, and I don’t have to explain anything, even though I did so as a courtesy, because you’re burden-shifting. It’s on you to prove Biden took bribes while VP (or illicit or ill-gotten cash after he was out of office). Like I said, a serious allegation merits serious evidence, and you have none. You and Comer and Rob and Jim Jordan don’t have it. Like I also said, if there is evidence establishing that Joe took a bribe while he was VP, I’ll join you in calling for his impeachment.

    “That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”
    –Christopher Hitchens

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  199. Off-topic:

    If you are looking for something to stream, AMC’s Dark Winds is an interesting look at New Mexico’s Diné (Navajo) culture, through the eyes of the Navajo Police.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  200. Doug Bergum could not tell me why he is running.

    After seeing him on CNN this AM, talking about China and energy and trade, he communicated quite clearly to me that he knows he can run the country better than the rest of the slate. The two times I’ve seen him talk longer than a soundbite (the debate and earlier today), I came out more impressed than when I came in.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  201. Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/28/2023 @ 10:16 am

    I also believe that he instigated the invasion of the Capitol

    If he did, it was by means other than his speech. No evidence has emerged that he did and he was not indicted for that. (despite Asa Hutchison’s confusion)

    and was pleased by it.

    I don’t think he was pleased. But, in a comment or two, he tried to make lemonade out of lemons.

    His biggest concern was that the riot could cause members of Congress to withdraw their objections. That’s why he called Senator Tommy Tibervillw, to try to make sure he still would object.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/08/politics/mike-lee-tommy-tuberville-trump-misdialed-capitol-riot/index.html

    Trump was not asking for something unplanned to happen. he was asking for the game plan for the day not to be abandoned. You know, the whole Jan 6 committee hearings made as little mention as possible of the schedule for the day (6 objections and debate on each of them) as they could because it spoiled their picture.

    His unwillingness to put a stop to it despite please from everyone close to him

    It wasn;t thst he was unwilling to put a stop to it, He was unwilling to put a stop to it by means of calling on the people there to leave.

    He was quite willing, and did, call upon them to stop attacking the police. He was told that wasn’t good enough and that only he could call the whole thing off.

    The Jan 6 committee left out that compromise position from their spin. Made it out like he did nothing at all for 3 hours.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  202. To whembly:

    Do you think that the riot surprised him?

    yes, of course it did, and the Jan 6 committee actually proved it. At the trim=time of the first impeachment it was argued by many that Trump lied when he said to the people at the Ellipse that he would be there with them at the Capitol. But they brought forth Cassidy Hutchison’s testimony that (however wrong she may have gotten some of the details about it) that Trump strongly wanted to go to the Capitol himself and was stopped by his aides and the Secret Service.

    He would not have wanted to go there had he thought there would be a riot. He was not Teddy Roosevelt wanting to boldly lead the Rough Riders.

    He wanted to address the crowd and then maybe walk into the Capitol to personally lobby members of Congress.

    Now the rally was semi legal. There were actually 9 permits for separate rallies of at most 50 people, not a crowd of 8,000 or so, of whom some 1.000 burst into the building.

    Now one thing very interesting we have is indicted lawyer Kenneth Chesebro, the first person maybe to suggest substituting electors, going to Capitol after Trump’s speech at the Ellipse to film Alex Jones and Ali Alexander urging the crowd not to attack the police and to go that-a-way to hear Donald Trump speak. Sounds like he knew something. But I don’t think Trump did.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/us/politics/kenneth-chesebro-jan-6-trump.html

    Wearing a red MAGA hat, Mr. Chesebro can be seen joining Mr. Jones’s group outside the Capitol shortly before 2 p.m. that day, according to the photographs and video reviewed by The Times. The visual evidence shows he stayed with Mr. Jones, Mr. Alexander and others — including Owen Shroyer, one of Mr. Jones’s top aides — for about an hour and a half, often filming Mr. Jones on his cellphone as the group walked around the Capitol and went partly up the stairs outside the east front of the building.

    Mr. Jones and Mr. Alexander were among the first “Stop the Steal” activists to draw attention from federal prosecutors investigating the Capitol riot. As early as April 2022, Mr. Jones reached out to the Justice Department in an unsuccessful effort to secure an immunity deal in exchange for information. Mr. Alexander was subpoenaed by — and ultimately testified to — a grand jury in Washington that was looking into various aspects of the attack.

    What ws Kennth Cheebro filming Alex Jones doing – working very hard to document it:

    https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/what-conspiracy-theorist-alex-jones-said-in-the-lead-up-to-the-capitol-riot

    Once outside the Capitol, Jones was filmed, bullhorn in hand. “We’re not antifa; we’re not BLM. You’re amazing. I love you. Let’s march around the other side, and let’s not fight the police and give the system what they want. We are peaceful, and we won this election. And as much as I love seeing the Trump flags flying over this, we need to not have the confrontation with the police. They’re gonna make that the story. I’m going to march to the other side, where we have a stage, where we can speak and occupy peacefully.”

    Jones continued: “Trump is going to speak over here. Trump is coming.”

    Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9)

  203. Rip, see today’s Emerson poll, linked @185.

    Or here: https://emersoncollegepolling.com/august-2023-national-poll-trump-debate-snub-may-open-door-for-other-candidates/

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/28/2023 @ 10:38 am

    I have, and it is one poll out of dozens (the operative word is “may”). I would give the Lilliputians about a month to show any “progress”.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  204. “While Trump saw a slight dip in support, the question from this poll is whether this is a blip for Trump or if the other Republican candidates will be able to rally enough support to be competitive for the caucus and primary season,” Spencer Kimball, Executive Director of Emerson College Polling said.

    We’ll see next month whether the dip is blip or not.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  205. Both the Repubiican spin and the Democratic spin keep trying to put square pegs into round holes.
    elp me God.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  206. RIP Samuel Joseph Wurzelbacher, aka “Joe the Pumber” (49).

    In any other context the “Joe the Plumber” nickname would suggest a Mafia hitman.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  207. lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/27/2023 @ 8:39 pm

    I meant Trump’s desire that Ukraine announce but not perform an investigation

    That was what Ambassador to the the EU Gordon Sondland (a post he had pretty much paid for) had negotiated with Ukraine in September, 2019, just before the “hold” on aid to Ukraine became public. Ukraine was just about two days away from implementing it in an interview scheduled for Sept 13 with Fareed Zakaria on CNN, which was cancelled.

    Incidentally, there was nothing in it about Ukraine nit actually investigating – that was partisan spin.

    Sondland was acting independently of Donald Trump based on his judgement of what would get Donald Trump to lift the secret (and therefore illegal) hold. When it was put to him, Donald Trump had rejected any kind of quid pro quo for restoring aid. Trump had given his subordinates no reason for his hold. It was probably really that Vladimir Putin, acting through Giuliani’s informants, had poisoned his mind against the Ukrainian government and Trump wanted it completely cleared of what he thought were corrupt anti-Trump elements.
    .

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  208. “..elp me God.” was part of a discarded message about the presidential oath of office.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  209. 91.
    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/26/2023 @ 9:23 pm

    Maybe a red flag law could’ve prevented the Jacksonville dollar store shooter from getting a semiautomatic weapon, given that he was detained by law enforcement for mental health reasons.

    Nota red flag law.

    A green light law.

    Compulsory insurance (could be $1,000 each by people who have ether cash, maybe in retirement accounts, or access to credit – they would lose their own money if the gun was used in a crime within 3 years of purchase, even if stolen) by 10 -12 people of both sexes who know him.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  210. @190

    Do you think that the riot surprised him?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/28/2023 @ 10:16 am

    I think it initially surprised… I vaguely recall a witness saying he was “appreciative” of the initial riot.

    That’s why it took him too long, to communicate to calm the situation (on twitter, as if, that’s “enough”).

    whembly (96342a)

  211. Re: First News Item

    (Rep. Andrew Clyde R-GA Insurrectionist), a member of the House Appropriations Committee, on Monday announced plans for two amendments to the Commerce, Justice, Science, and Related Agencies (CJS) fiscal 2024 appropriations bill that would “prohibit the use of federal funding for the prosecution of any major presidential candidate prior to the upcoming presidential election on November 5th, 2024,” according to a press release.
    ………..
    Clyde said he is taking aim at special counsel Jack Smith, who has led charges against Trump relating to attempts to overturn the 2020 election results and retention of classified documents; Manhattan, N.Y., District Attorney Alvin Bragg (D), who charged Trump in relation to 2016 hush-money payments to adult film actress Stormy Daniels; and Fulton County, Ga., District Attorney Fani Willis (D), who charged Trump again in relation to the 2020 election.

    “Due to my serious concerns about these witch hunt indictments against President Trump, I intend to offer two amendments to prohibit any federal funds from being used in federal or state courts to prosecute major presidential candidates prior to the 2024 election,” Clyde said in a statement. “The American people get to decide who wins the White House — not Deep State actors who have shamelessly attacked Donald Trump since he announced his first bid in 2015. It is imperative that Congress use its power of the purse to protect the integrity of our elections, restore Americans’ faith in our government, and dismantle our nation’s two-tiered system of justice. I’m fully committed to helping lead this effort, and I call on my House Appropriations colleagues to join me in this righteous fight.”
    ……….
    Such an amendment could be contentious within the GOP. In July, a Clyde amendment to rescind funds for a new FBI building — a push supported by Republicans who have criticized the agency for alleged bias against Trump — failed due to lack of support from Republicans.
    ###########

    “…….to protect the integrity of our elections, restore Americans’ faith in our government, and dismantle our nation’s two-tiered system of justice……..”

    Newspeak.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  212. 150. Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/27/2023 @ 7:42 pm

    BTW, I agree with Sammy that Biden was lying about his role in the firing of Shokin. Biden was dishonestly trying to sound like a tough guy, that he could get sh-t done.

    The version that got to Trump is attributed by the whistleblower complaint to Shokin’s successor:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/09/26/us/politics/whistle-blower-complaint.html

    …The President also praised Ukraine’s Prosecutor General, Mr. Yuriy Lutsenko, and suggested that Mr. Zelenskyy might want to keep him in his position. (Note: Starting in March 2019, Mr. Lutsenko made a series of public allegations—many of which he later walked back—about the Biden family’s activities in Ukraine, Ukrainian officials’ purported involvement in the 2016 U.S. election, and the activities of the U.S. Embassy in Kyiv. See Part IV for additional context.)

    Trump, by the way, did not praise Lutsenko – he was asserting the previous prosecutor (Shokin) was good. The “whistleblower” (probably Eric Ciaramella) had not been in on the call.

    By the way, he had to stretch things to make this a complaint about intelligence work, which qualified for whistleblower protection, rather than presidential conduct, which did not, and probably worked it all out with Adam Schiff as a way of making the “hold” public.

    Schiff later proceeded to misrepresent what Trump had said in the July 25, 2019 telephone call with Ukrainian president Volodomyr Zelensky and I think it was in response to that that Trump made the transcript public.

    And while we’re on Biden, his responses to the Lahaina wildfire were beyond lame, from initially saying “no comment”

    Biden’s people are now saying that he did not hear the question, so that the lie there would be pretending that his hearing was better than it was. But the no comment could be genuine.

    Biden has told the story of that kitchen fire so that it sounds much more serious than it was.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  213. Trump’s has made the claim in the documents case that he did not actually have (or maybe it’s did not necessarily have) the Pentagon paper about Iran with him at the time he said he did.

    But Mark Meadows wrote in an early draft of his book that Trump had laid it on the sofa in front of his publisher and his ghostwriter/researcher. (he took it out of the book so as not to harm Trump.)

    Meadows is claiming that he was acting as a federal official. If all he did was listen in and lace the call, Id; say that might qualify as without the scope of his duties as Chief of Staff. Jeffrey Clark maybe has the best case for removal to federal court. But the 3 would-be electors by definition could not be federal officials if they were to pretend to be Electors at the same time.

    https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution-transcript

    Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

    Even if some Trump lawyers (and they were not government lawyers) told them they needed to sign a declaration that they were chosen as electors, they did not become federal officials.

    They were probably indicted because they didn’t co-operate

    Kenneth Cheesebro, Sidney Powell have opted for a speedy trial and probably John Eastman will. It must be granted. There are legal reasons – for one ting maybe it makes it easier for a jury to acquit – but a factor with Eastman could be the cost of paying a lawyer to spend days in court.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  214. @198

    Like I said, a serious allegation merits serious evidence, and you have none. You and Comer and Rob and Jim Jordan don’t have it. Like I also said, if there is evidence establishing that Joe took a bribe while he was VP, I’ll join you in calling for his impeachment.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/28/2023 @ 10:34 am

    Yeah, my point is you are not arguing in good faith.

    With the institution is designed to protect certain groups/people, aka the DOJ here in protecting the Bidens, it’s almost impossible to get to the level that you’re demanding.

    So, its going to have to be done in the public court of opinions to put pressure on Congress to conduct it’s impeachment investigation.

    Because, you do have evidence. Yes, alot of it circumstantial, but you’re so incurious about it frustrates the hell out of me.

    Evidence:
    -FBI internal doc that states that the Burisma owner had documentary evidence of protection scheme.

    -This same Burisma officials stated that they wanted Hunter on the board to protect his interests, at the same time Biden was VP.

    -Hunter’s WhatsApp where he said that “my father is sitting here” extorting Chinese officials.

    -Hunter’s own private correspondence stating that “unlike my dad, I’m not asking you for 50%”.

    -The “10% for the big guy”.

    -According to whistleblowers, the DOJ obstructed their investigation by preventing investigators from looking into who’s “the big guy”.te

    -Documented statements that Hunter had his dad call him in front of his clients to prove that he has “access”.

    Do I need to list out more things here? These are evidence that’s worth chasing down to determine if Biden was involved in influence peddling.

    My frustration isn’t the fact that the Biden’s are doing this. That’s the dark underbelly of politics. I wish we can curtail this, but easier said than done. My frustration is the application of the law.

    You cannot ignore the dynamic where one side of the political spectrum is engaging in partisan lawfare. If this keeps happening, the “what goes around, comes around” axiom will manifest.

    When you have half the country willing to support/engage in these sort of things, while hypocritically covering their own side. Bad things will start to happen.

    I don’t like where this country is going.

    whembly (6c6692)

  215. #127 follow-up: The “obscure minerals” are needed, not just for our economy, but for our military, too.

    In the July 15th issue of the Economist, there is a grim article, with this takeaway: “A dozen obscure minerals are key to Western armies. China controls their supply.

    The minerals named in the “Mission-critical” article: gallium, niobium, tungsten, vanadium, rare earths*, cobalt, beryllium, indium, titanium, antimony, tantalum, and zirconium.

    As the article notes, during the Cold War the US had large stockpiles of strategic minerals, worth tens of billions of dollars. That a series of presidents, Biden, Trump, Obama, and possibly more, have failed to insure our security by making sure we have access to these minerals shows that we again need serious discussions of our long-term security problems.

    *Rare earths are neither particularly rare, nor earths. (However, economic minable deposits are rare, and separating them was difficult, until the 1950s and 1960s.) There are 15 of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rare-earth_element

    Jim Miller (a31430)

  216. From I think a generally reliable source – they knew about the hold before anybody else did.

    Article dated March 29,, 2016.

    https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/shokin-s-revenge-ukraine-s-odious-prosecutor-general-fires-honest-deputy-before-parliament-sacks-him

    On March 29, the Ukrainian Rada finally approved the resignation of Ukraine’s disreputable Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin. He was voted out with an overwhelming majority of 289 votes, including 114 of the 134 deputies of the Poroshenko Bloc. On February 16, Shokin was forced to submit his letter of resignation in connection with the failed vote of no confidence in the government of Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk.

    The amazing thing is not that he was sacked but that it has taken so long. President Petro Poroshenko appointed Shokin to the role in February 2015. From the outset, he stood out by causing great damage even to Ukraine’s substandard legal system. Most strikingly, Shokin failed to prosecute any single prominent member of the Yanukovych regime. Nor did he prosecute anyone in the current government.

    Shokin skillfully blocked reform. He was in charge of implementing the 2014 law on prosecution, which the European Union had insisted on for years. It aimed to reduce the role of the prosecutors, who were absurdly superior to judges in the Soviet legal system that persisted in post-Soviet Ukraine. The law also involved a reevaluation of all prosecutors with the intention of weeding out corrupt and incompetent prosecutors. Shokin manipulated the process so successfully that the old prosecutors prevailed and minimal renewal occurred.

    For these reasons, Shokin has stood out as the most obvious obstacle to judicial reform. US Ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt called for his ouster in all but name in a speech last September, and Vice President Joe Biden did so explicitly during his visit to Ukraine last December.

    To an outsider, it seems strange that Shokin was allowed to do so much damage for so long, but he has clearly enjoyed Poroshenko’s full confidence and is even godfather to one of Poroshenko’s children.

    The reason for the delay became clear today. Minutes before his demise, Shokin sacked Deputy Prosecutor General Davit Sakvarelidze, who has actually fought corruption. Vitaliy Kasko, another young deputy prosecutor general, gave up and resigned in mid-February, understanding that the prosecutor general’s office could not be reformed from within. As a consequence, Shokin has cleansed it from young intruders who want to prosecute wrongdoing. First Deputy Prosecutor General Yuriy Sevruk, a reliable old Shokin hand, has become acting prosecutor general.

    The ousters of Sakvarelidze and Kasko are more significant than the long-overdue retirement of the 64-year-old Shokin. These two young prosecutors became famous for arresting the top prosecutor in Kyiv after finding vast amounts of cash, gold, and precious stones in his office. Shokin responded by prosecuting them for this and Kasko just had his assets frozen. Shokin has also instigated a case against a leading anticorruption activist in Kyiv, Vitaliy Shabunin, and the Poroshenko Bloc has expelled two deputies, Mykola Tomenko and Yegor Firsov, from parliament under a controversial law it recently adopted. Their crime was their protests against corruption.

    While few will miss Shokin, his belated ouster is unlikely to help the battle against corruption in Ukraine. Instead, a fight against anticorruption activists has been launched. What a sordid story to say the least.

    Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9)

  217. Do I need to list out more things here? These are evidence allegations that’s worth chasing down to determine if Biden was involved in influence peddling.

    FIFY

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  218. Post 218 corrected to show change:

    Do I need to list out more things here? These are evidence allegations that’s worth chasing down to determine if Biden was involved in influence peddling.

    FIFY

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/28/2023 @ 12:46 pm

    Even then these “allegations “are pretty weak-depending on convicted/absconded felons, Russian supporting foreigners, correspondence from known liars, etc. Just because Hunter Biden wrote it down doesn’t make it true.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  219. Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/28/2023 @ 10:34 am

    if there is evidence establishing that Joe took a bribe while he was VP, I’ll join you in calling for his impeachment.

    The evidence consists of a confidential source re-interviewed in 2020, who said that Zlochevky said in 2016 that he had paid $5 million to one Biden and $5 million to another Biden (who could be Jim) and an allegation that IRS agents were not notified of this lead. Plus some woman informant in Ukraine about money laundering.

    Now Shokin claims this (not on the basis of personal knowledge) And also claims that Biden was responsible for Russia annexing Crimea (?)

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  220. Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/28/2023 @ 12:53 pm

    Wow. That’s definitive. 🤣

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  221. -The “10% for the big guy”.

    If Hunter was falsely claiming that Joe was part of a scheme (in 2017) to help a Chinese company, he might make up an interest that Joe Biden supposedly would have.

    But why conceal it after he was no longer in office?

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  222. FBI internal doc that states that the Burisma owner had documentary evidence of protection scheme.

    That informant I mentioned already said Zlochevsky claimed he had 17 recordings – 15 of Hunter and 2 of Joe. Multiple levels of hearsay.

    -This same Burisma officials stated that they wanted Hunter on the board to protect his interests, at the same time Biden was VP.

    They wanted people to believe that. Appearance of corruption was valuable to Burisma. They needed to scare off peoole in Ukraine.

    -Hunter’s WhatsApp where he said that “my father is sitting here” extorting Chinese officials.

    Could easily be a lie. And now it’s extortion not bribery. Hunter was getting desperate.

    P.S. it seems he got the money.

    (This did not come from his laptop. by the way)

    -Hunter’s own private correspondence stating that “unlike my dad, I’m not asking you for 50%”.

    “half my salary”

    Jan 3,2019 text message to his daughter Naomi who was asking him for money, Most logically would refer to some time in the past when his father advanced him money – or maybe it was for getting him that job with MBNA in 1995.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  223. Europe enforcing immigration laws, not quite successfully:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/16/opinion/europe-tunisia-migration.html

    …The men, who were Darfuris, explained that they had escaped what they called a new genocide in Sudan. They saw militants burning homes, sometimes entire villages, and ran for their lives.

    There are dozens — maybe hundreds — of Sudanese currently staying in that park in Sfax, and thousands across the city. They sleep on cardboard, or mattresses if they’re lucky. They contemplate their fates, chatting quietly about their experiences and wondering where they can get food. Mostly, they wait: for money from relatives or friends, or for work that might enable them to raise 2,000 Tunisian dinars, or $647, to buy a spot on a boat and a chance at escape. Everyone I met in Sfax, which is about 80 miles from the Italian island of Lampedusa, wanted to cross the Mediterranean to Europe. They all knew they might die in the attempt.

    Even so, people leave every day. Some send jubilant messages from Italy; others wash up dead along the coast. The weekend I sat in the park, as many as three ships sank, leaving more than 80 people dead or missing. Ten bodies were found on beaches nearby. Last week, 41 people were reported to have died after a shipwreck off the Italian coast.

    Mass death has long been normalized on Europe’s borders. More than 27,800 people have died or disappeared in the Mediterranean Sea since 2014 — and that is most likely a large underestimate. This year is shaping up to be especially deadly. Over 2,000 people have lost their lives trying to get to Europe, including more than 600 who died when a ship capsized off the coast of Greece in June. This is what a crisis of human rights, ethics and, above all, global inequality looks like.

    Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9)

  224. I met people looking to leave who had lived in Tunisia for years but had lost their jobs and been evicted after remarks by the country’s president, Kais Saied. In February, Mr. Saied suggested that sub-Saharan Africans were part of a criminal arrangement “to change the demographic composition of Tunisia,” setting off a wave of abuse and persecution.

    This did not stop the European Union from seeking a deal with Mr. Saied to curb migration: In return for “border management,” it will provide Tunisia with $118 million, and commit to providing additional assistance. To European leaders, Tunisia’s brutality — in early July, more than 1,000 sub-Saharan Africans were rounded up in Sfax and dumped on the Libyan border without food or water — may matter less than its willingness to collaborate.

    No weighing of means against ends.

    …European officials talk about “breaking the business model of smugglers,” but their statements ignore the fact that human smugglers are simply filling a need. Unlike me, a European who flew without a visa from Ireland to Tunisia, there is no safe way for many Africans to travel in the other direction.

    The debate around migration usually centers on how to keep unprivileged people out, rather than asking broader, perhaps more existential questions: Can we, in the West, still purport to believe in human rights while effectively condoning abuses on our borders? Are we comfortable with crimes being committed to stop people from reaching our territories?…

    They are in denial than comfortable but may be pushed into being comfortable – and being comfortable has that has further ramifications.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  225. Yeah, my point is you are not arguing in good faith.

    One word: Bullsh-t.

    Every single bullet point you put down is allegation, not evidence, including the FD-1023 that is hearsay of a hearsay.

    There is no record of a 10% or even a 1% going to Joe Biden. Just a one-off comment in an email with nothing to show for.

    The majority of your points deal with other parties such as Hunter or DOJ, not Joe.

    Disappointing, whembly. Disappointing.

    The evidence consists of a confidential source re-interviewed in 2020, who said that Zlochevky said in 2016 that he had paid $5 million to one Biden and $5 million to another Biden (who could be Jim) and an allegation that IRS agents were not notified of this lead. Plus some woman informant in Ukraine about money laundering.

    The FD-1023 is not evidence, Sammy, it’s hearsay upon hearsay. An FBI agent got the story from a confidential source who got the story from Zlochevsky, a fugitive from justice whereabouts unknown (last known location Monaco), and this fugitive from justice produced zero evidence of a bribe, just claimed that he had this evidence and these recordings. Maybe he has it, maybe not, but it actually needs to be produced, not naively taking a swindler’s word.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  226. Rip, see today’s Emerson poll, linked @185.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/28/2023 @ 10:38 am

    The poll showed a six point drop for Trump, but the poll has a margin of error of +/- 3%, so Trump’s decline may be imaginary.

    Did you read the Reuters/Ipsos poll that you linked here? It showed Trump with 52%, a marginal increase from his previous 47% from early August (but close to outside the MOE). And the MOE for that poll is a gargantuan 6 points, so any movement among the candidates is just polling noise.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  227. “Just because Hunter Biden wrote it down doesn’t make it true.”

    It doesn’t make it true. It makes it worth investigating, if we are to apply the same level of scrutiny set when Trump’s hacking of emails and colluding with Russia was investigated. The same level is scrutiny won’t happen, of course, but ascribing this to a lack of credible evidence is to be taken seriously only by those most broken by partisanship.

    lloyd (dbb57d)

  228. American Free Enterprise Chamber of Commerce/Harris X Poll 8/21/23

    Republican Primary Election

    If the Republican presidential primary/caucus for the 2024 election was held today, who would you vote for?

    Among Likely Republican Primary Voters

    National Poll/Iowa

    Donald Trump 52 % 45 %

    Ron DeSantis 12 % 11 %

    Vivek Ramaswamy 10 % 9 %

    Mike Pence 4 % 3 %

    Tim Scott 4 % 8 %

    Chris Christie 3 % 2 %

    Nikki Haley 3 % 4 %

    Ryan Binkley 1 % 1 %

    Doug Burgum 0 % 2 %

    Asa Hutchinson 1 % 0 %

    Will Hurd 0 % 0 %
    ……….

    President Biden’s approval rating is 44% among U.S. registered voters, 11% among GOP Primary voters, and 80% among Democratic Primary voters.
    ………
    64% of U.S. voters say President Biden should not run for a second term in 2024, and 56% of voters surveyed nationally say the same about Trump.

    Biden is tied with Trump in a head-to-head match-up for the 2024 election (45% Biden vs 44% Trump), while Trump is +6pts ahead in Iowa (47% Trump vs 41% Biden).

    ……….

    Crosstabs.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  229. Doesn’t Hunter have a Special Counsel investigating him? That’s a certain amount of scrutiny.

    norcal (345e4d)

  230. If there was ever a thread that needed BuhDuh….

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  231. The Pope is some sort of weird Russophile. The days of “Great Russia” were never that great. It was a feudal empire chock-filled with brutality.

    Amid Russia’s imperial war on Ukraine, Pope Francis tells Russians to be inspired by their legacy as heirs of “the Great Russia of Peter the Great and Catherine II, of that Great Russian Empire, enlightened, of so much culture and so much humanity.” (1/4)

    It’s akin to telling Belgians they should honor the legacy of the great humanitarian mission of King Leopold who had brought culture to the Congo. Peter I, whose imperial land grab Putin said he emulates, and Catherine II loom in Ukrainian history as the country’s enslavers. 2/4

    Peter I curtailed Ukrainian self-rule and Catherine abolished it altogether, turning millions of free Ukrainians into serfs just as serfdom was being scrapped elsewhere in Europe. Unleashing forced assimilation, she essentially banned the Ukrainian language and book printing. 3/4

    lloyd, this is why I supported a Special Counsel for Hunter. I just didn’t expect it would be Weiss.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  232. I just sit back and read how much you need me, AJ.

    Patterico grew tired of my style (not that I blame him), so watching the in-fighting is my new pastime. I won’t participate.

    BuDuh (abc770)

  233. Desatan booed at jacksonville memorial of racist shooting. His attempt to fool people fails again! Maybe he can try hunting pythons.

    asset (20511f)

  234. Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/28/2023 @ 5:10 am

    Thanks.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  235. Mike Martin has an update on Ukraine’s counteroffensive strategy. The key plan is to cut off Russian logistics, specifically by (1) cutting off Tokmak, a major rail hub, (2) getting within artillery range of the M14 highway between Melitopol and Mariupol and (3) striking the three main bridges into the Crimean peninsula, which includes the big one over Kerch Strait.

    Tokmak is in sight, and the Ukrainians have been striking all three bridges. If they can advance another 15-20 miles south, the M14 is hittable.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  236. American Free Enterprise Chamber of Commerce/Harris X Poll 8/21/23

    Before the debates and no longer relevant.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  237. It was a feudal empire chock-filled with brutality.

    Next up, praising Cromwell and King Billy in Ireland.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  238. It may or not be corrupt, but it is illegal under the 52 US Code 30121 to enlist a foreign power to assist in an American electoral campaign.

    Violated every time a President gets the Israeli PM over to the WH before an election.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  239. Before the debates and no longer relevant.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/28/2023 @ 4:37 pm

    Yeah, I was iffy on posting it.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  240. Part of the problem is that only 1 in 5 GOP voters watched any part of the debate. The pollsters seem to conflate “heard about” or “read accounts” with being fully informed. This isn’t unexpected, still early days.

    Most voters have spent nearly no time looking at the candidates or their positions, running instead on inertia. That might never change, of course, and we get Biden vs inmate P01135809. The Republican voters who think they are “stinking it to the man” would be impaling themselves, not that they will ever admit it. Just another stolen election….

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  241. Violated every time a President gets the Israeli PM over to the WH before an election.

    Um, no. That’s good diplomacy and good politics, and all legal.
    Bottom line, Trump doesn’t have the self-control or humility to not break the law. He wants he wants, rule of law and the Constitution be damned.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  242. There is no rule of law and Trump is just a symptom of that.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  243. Just for fun, I wonder how far I’d get hawking SpamGPT.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  244. Comedy Gold!

    …………
    “Today a biased, Trump Hating Judge gave me only a two month extension, just what our corrupt government wanted, SUPER TUESDAY,” Trump complained.

    Special Counsel Jack Smith’s office proposed holding the trial on Jan. 2, 2024, shortly before the third anniversary of the U.S. Capitol insurrection, but U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan found that date was not “acceptable.” Instead, she set the trial the day before voters in 14 states head to the polls for the primary election.

    “I will APPEAL!” Trump vowed.
    ………..
    “It’s not a thing,” former federal prosecutor Renato Mariotti told The Messenger, estimating that the gambit stood “0 percent” chance of succeeding.

    CNN legal analyst Jennifer Rodgers, who spent more than a decade as a federal prosecutor in the Southern District of New York, agreed.

    “He cannot appeal the trial date,” Rodgers told The Messenger. “He can continue to request that it be moved back, and ultimately if he is convicted he can try to argue that the decision to try the case when it was tried deprived him of the ability to prepare adequately, but that’s an uphill battle.”

    Attorney Bradley Moss, who practices national security law, cheekily responded after one social media user shared Trump’s appellate plans as news that was “Just in.”

    “Just in: he cannot,” Moss quipped.

    Asked to elaborate, Moss told The Messenger that appeals before a trial — known as interlocutory appeals — are “disfavored unless it qualifies as a final order on a significant question of law.”
    …………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  245. Serial Election Fraud:

    A judge on Monday sentenced a Shaker Heights (OH) attorney to three years in prison for illegally voting in the last two general elections.

    Cuyahoga County Common Pleas Court Andrew Santoli called 56-year-old James Saunders’ actions “purposeful, intentional and cavalier” in handing down the maximum sentence. Santoli also fined Saunders $10,000.

    “You violated a fundamental right of this country that every person speaks with one vote and one voice,” Santoli said. “I can think of no greater crime of a felony of the fourth degree than a crime perpetuated against every single person in this country.”
    ……….
    Santoli found Saunders guilty of two felony counts of election fraud last week following a one-day trial held in July. Three witnesses — elections officials from Cuyahoga County and Broward County, Florida, and an Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigations agent who examined the case — testified that Saunders cast ballots in Florida and Ohio in each election.

    Records showed that Saunders also illegally voted twice in the 2014 and 2016 general elections, but prosecutors said they could not charge him for those votes because the statute of limitations had passed.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  246. “Today a biased, Trump Hating Judge gave me only a two month extension, just what our corrupt government wanted, SUPER TUESDAY,” Trump complained.

    “I will APPEAL!” Trump vowed.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/28/2023 @ 4:55 pm

    Are bad grammar and excessive capitalization necessary components of grifting?

    norcal (345e4d)

  247. I am offended as a lover of the English language.

    norcal (345e4d)

  248. When you talk about Abraham Lincoln, will you mention
    1) Keeping the Union together;
    2) Freeing the slaves;
    3) The Sandy Creek massacre?

    The Pope was talking to idealistic young people and he appealed to their idealized vision of their history. If that does not quite conform with how others view Russia, they can say so to their audience.

    nk (512d97)

  249. Sand Creek. No “y”. That’s what happens when you let grammar influence memory.

    nk (512d97)

  250. So, the possible case:

    1. Trump is convicted of actual felonies.
    2. Trump is nominated as the GOP candidate.
    3. Trump wins.

    WHat would this say about our country?

    A. That a terrible, no good criminal is sitting in the WH?
    B. That voters ignored all his crimes and voted for him out of spite?
    C. That people are so incredibly fed up with the ruling class that they voted for a wrecking ball?

    All of the above?

    There is a deep and abiding anger in the people, not just on the Right. For every die-hard Trumpist there’s a Bernie Bro cultist fighting the hordes of capitalism. Trump was elected because of it (so was Obama to some extent). Neither was effective, or even all that interested, in forcing change. Biden isn’t the answer either, just less blatant about his corruption.

    I fear that we are doomed to trundle down this ride until the wheels come off. The Trolley Problem would be an improvement.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  251. WHat would this say about our country?

    That Biden ran a lousy campaign.

    The fault, dear Kevin, is not in our country but in our politicians.

    nk (2c1a3c)

  252. @246 I assume republican let me know if I am wrong.

    asset (03b895)

  253. The fault, dear nk, is not in our politicians but in our voters. 😛

    norcal (345e4d)

  254. @249 Number (2) Gen. benjamin butler who was a strong abolitionist forced lincoln’s hand by first freeing the slaves in norfolk va. in 1861 and new orleans in 1862.

    asset (03b895)

  255. A quick reminder that if you want to know about Joe Biden’s finances, he released several decades of tax returns which are now posted online. Any of us can read them, we don’t have to speculate.

    Nic (896fdf)

  256. Nic (896fdf) — 8/28/2023 @ 7:01 pm

    Whatever, Nic. You’re just blind to Biden’s badness. He wants to destroy America and pervert our children, in addition to many other vile and evil things.

    Your whataboutism is noted. Carry on.

    norcal (345e4d)

  257. The problem with Trump is not his pressure on Ukraine, but his incredibly self-centered decision-making process in general.

    I am far more concerned with his approach to problems than I am by the tools he uses to solve them.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/28/2023 @ 9:51 am

    I agree with that. It also hints at why I dispute your assertion that the perfect phone call differs from actions routinely taken by other Presidents only by degree.

    Motive is what distinguishes much that’s impeachable or criminal from similar behavior that’s permissible, sometimes even laudable. Lying to the American people may be well within the scope of a President’s duty when, for example, the purpose of the lie is to deceive our enemies who are also listening. Lying to obscure one’s own misdeads on the other hand, e.g., Nixon and Clinton, is corrupt and impeachable.

    Likewise, testing the limits of executive power to advance a stated policy goal is within the normal give and take of the separation of powers. Our legal checks and balances are well designed to correct any overreaches, e.g., Trump’s DACA cancellation and Biden’s student loan forgiveness. Conversely, there’s nothing normal about the perfect phone call’s abuse of power for selfish, non-policy ends. It’s the very definition of corrupt.

    It seems self-evident to me that the difference between bad things which are normal and not corrupt and bad things which are abnormal and corrupt is one of kind, not degree.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  258. There is no rule of law and Trump is just a symptom of that.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/28/2023 @ 4:53 pm

    Do you really believe that? Like all human creations, the rule of law generally and our legal system in particular are imperfect. They have good days and bad. That doesn’t negate their essential value, much less their existence. Try imagining this country actually lawless; then tell me the rule of law is dead.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  259. @norcal@257 I feel like you are mocking someone.

    Nic (896fdf)

  260. More Comedy Gold!

    Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis’s (R) presidential campaign Monday railed against former President Trump’s suggestion that DeSantis might drop out of the 2024 presidential election, calling Trump’s claim “fake news.”

    “This is fake news,” DeSantis’s press secretary Bryan Griffin wrote in a post on X, formerly known as Twitter. “Clearly, Donald Trump and his army of consultants are panicked about @RonDeSantis’ winning debate performance and the strong momentum that has followed.”
    …………
    In a Truth Social post Monday morning, Trump knocked DeSantis’s falling poll numbers and claimed he heard rumors DeSantis will be dropping out to run for Senate against Sen. Rick Scott (R-Fla.)

    ”Rumors are strong in political circles that Ron DeSanctimonious, whose Presidential run is in shambles and whose poll numbers have absolutely crashed, putting him 3rd and 4th in some states, will be dropping out of the Presidential race in order to run, in Florida, against Rick Scott for Senate. Now that’s an interesting one, isn’t it?” Trump wrote on Truth Social.

    ………….

    LOL! The only candidate that is threatened by Ron DeSantis (12%) in latest Emerson poll is Vivek Ramaswamy (9%), not Donald Trump (50%). Given the poll’s 3% margin of error the two are functionally tied.

    Rip Murdock (f27d0c)

  261. Another one left holding the bag:

    <blockquote………….
    (Peter) Navarro, Trump’s one-time trade adviser, testified Monday in his defense during a key pre-trial hearing in his case. He’s facing charges for defying subpoenas issued to him by the House select committee that investigated the US Capitol attack on January 6, 2021, claiming he did so because Trump asserted executive privilege in the matter.

    But during the nearly three-hour hearing before US District Judge Amit P. Mehta in Washington, DC, the judge appeared highly skeptical of Navarro’s testimony, noting it’s from one side of the conversation.

    “I still don’t know what the president said,” Mehta told Navarro’s attorney Stanley Woodward, referring to a February 20, 2022, call during which Navarro said it was made clear the former president was invoking executive privilege. “I don’t have any words from the former president.”

    “That’s pretty weak sauce,” the judge added, referring this time to a comment Navarro says Trump made to him about regretting not letting him testify. The comment had been used by Navarro and his team to bolster their argument that Trump did invoke privilege because his subsequent regret indicated as much.
    ………….
    Woodward said during a hearing earlier this month that Trump is not expected to testify on behalf of Navarro, potentially undercutting a key defense.
    ……………..
    Navarro’s criminal case is set to go to trial next month.

    During his testimony on Monday, Navarro said that in conversations with Trump following the issuance of the committee subpoena on February 9, 2022, the former president made it known that he didn’t want Navarro to cooperate with the committee.

    “It was clear during that call that privilege was invoked – very clear,” Navarro said at one point, referring to a call he said took place on February 20, 2022.
    ……………
    Sad!

    Rip Murdock (f27d0c)

  262. There’s as much credibility to Navarro’s privilege order from Trump as there was Trump’s standing order to declassify the classified materials he took from the White House.
    It’s the same problem as Trump’s “massive fraud” claims and Joe Biden allegedly taking bribes while VP: Just because they’re asserted, don’t mean they’re true, or that there’s any evidence in support.
    And now Navarro will spend time behind bars, just like Bannon. What a pair.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  263. @norcal@257 I feel like you are mocking someone.

    Nic (896fdf) — 8/28/2023 @ 7:36 pm

    Your bias and propaganda against people who note things are noted.

    Have a nice day.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  264. Joltin joe liberman sez no labels party will nominate harld ford and tulsi gabbard in april at houston texas. Joe biden and DNC will have to change their depends if it happens!

    asset (03b895)

  265. @lurker@264 A plot! A plot I say! A foul conspiracy!

    Nic (896fdf)

  266. Nic (896fdf) — 8/28/2023 @ 7:36 pm

    Trust your feelings, Nic.

    I wouldn’t try that on just anyone, but I know you have a sense of humor.

    norcal (133a3a)

  267. Is make big joke, eh, comrades? Okay, I laugh. Ha, ha, ha!

    Nobody in the history of the United States has monetized his political office more than TOG (The Orange Grifter). Nobody.

    nk (5719ec)

  268. Do you really believe that?

    What I believe is that the Rule of Law has been hammered down by nearly everyone when it got in their way. That has consequences, and some of those are making it easier and easier to hammer it down more, for lesser and lesser reasons.

    It might not be dead, but it sure is pining for the fjords.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  269. @mods, I think my previous post broke it (#270). I included email addresses (with ampresand). Here it is again w/o that formatting.

    Eagerly waiting for an innocent explanation for this….
    https://www.slfliberty.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2023/08/20230828-Complaint-WITH-exhibits.pdf

    In its filing, SLF’s legal team made clear that it was requesting documents that NARA already admitted holding: “By its own admission, Defendant has possession, custody, and control of the records to which SLF seeks access.”

    The lawsuit seeks NARA, under FOIA to release emails of the President’s pseudonym of: robinware at gmail.com, JRBWare at gmail.com, and Robert.L.Peters at pci.gov.

    This is actually old news as first reported by NYPOST:
    https://nypost.com/2022/04/29/joe-biden-used-alias-of-kgb-spy-from-tom-clancy-novels-hunter-emails/

    But, hey, conducting official business under a pseudonym is small potatoes you guys. We shouldn’t be inferring anything nefarious here. /sarc

    whembly (6c6692)

  270. Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/27/2023 @ 6:48 pm

    When Jackson took over the Democrat-Republican Party,

    There was no Democratic-Republican party. That was a term invented by Congress, sometime between about 1875 and 1925, when they published a history of the membership of Congress, and they called Jefferson’s party “Democratic-Republican” and it has been followed ever since in U.S. government publications and by almanacs etc.

    But in reality, Jefferson, Madison and Monroe called their party simply the “Republican” party and when the current Republican Party was founded in 1854, they went back to Jefferson’s old name. (it renamed itself the Union party for the election of 1864)

    the era of Good Feelings

    A histr=orian’s name for the election of 1820 after the Federalist party died and there was practically no competition for the re-election of James Monroe.

    ended and the party fractured in the Democrats and the National Republicans.

    It split into factions and there was no party associated with any of the 1824 presidential candidates.

    In 1828 Jackson called his party the Democratic Party and John Quincy adams called his party the National Republicans. His father, of course, had ben a Federalist.

    In 1832 Henry Clay ran as the candidate of the National Republican Party, but by 1836 the opposition party was the Whigs. (going by the designation in old Information Please almanacs)

    The parties are now very strong institutionally. The Great Depression should have killed off the Republican Party, but it didn’t, although it nominated an outsider who was a recent ex-Democrat (Wendell Wilkie) as its candidate in 1940.

    Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5)

  271. Pierre Delecto says tsk-tsk.

    I agree that using a false name in emails is sketchy, particularly since they’re held by NARA, so they’re presumably presidential records under the PRA. Is it illegal? I don’t know, but at the very least it’s sketchy. The Daily Mail did good work.

    The other question is about the contents of those emails. They should be made public.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  272. Comedy Gold!

    Trump’s polls bump up after every indictment because voters see him putting country before self: Gingrich
    ………
    On Fox News, Gingrich said Trump could have retired comfortably after the 2020 election, and have been confident none of the charges in Atlanta, Washington, New York or Miami would have been lodged against him.

    But instead, Trump decided to put the preservation of the American system before his own personal risks or interest, he said.

    “If he’d retired, none of these charges would ever have occurred, and instead, he said, ‘You know, the country is worth going through this,’ and I think that’s given him support in places that normally wouldn’t have supported him.”
    ……….
    “I think that the country is in fact going to nominate Trump, and I think Trump has a very high likelihood of winning the general election.”
    ………..

    The idea that with every indictment Trump’s poll numbers have gone up is not quite true:

    ……….
    ……….From June 8, the day the classified documents indictment was unsealed, to July 8, Trump’s lead in the horse-race was stable at 28 to 29 points. By the end of July, his lead had grown to 37 points, which is basically where it stands today. Trump’s lead in the 2024 primary hasn’t shifted significantly since the third indictment was unsealed on Aug. 1. A YouGov/The Economist poll conducted Aug. 5-8 found that 69 percent of Republicans think he did not do anything illegal around the events of Jan. 6 and only 10 percent think he should be charged with a crime. All of that means Trump is in a strong position to weather the storm of his alleged wrongdoing in the short-term.
    ……….
    ………Instead of looking only at 2024 primary polling, consider Trump’s favorability ratings. Though there has been only marginal movement in how voters view Trump over the last year, there is evidence that American adults, including Republicans, did react differently to the various indictments. After he was indicted on the hush-money charges, Trump’s net favorability (his favorability rating minus his unfavorability rating) rose 0.7 percentage points among Republicans in the next two weeks, from +52.9 to +53.7, according to FiveThirtyEight’s polling average. His June indictment, though, was a different story. In the two weeks after federal prosecutors unsealed the classified-documents indictment, Trump’s net favorability rating among Republicans fell from +57.1 to +55.3, a drop of 1.8 percentage points.

    Over that same time period, Trump’s net favorability rating among all adults fell from -11.9 percentage points — the high point for him in 2023 — back down to -14.8, a slightly larger dip than among Republicans.

    These might look like small changes, but public opinion of Trump has been historically stable; even shifts of just 2 or 3 points in a month represent notable change. And if we expand the window of time we’re analyzing, the news for the former president gets even worse: After gaining steadily among Republicans following his first indictment in March, Trump’s net favorability rating fell nearly 10 points among Republicans and 5 points among all adults between late May and late July, erasing most of the gains he saw throughout 2023. (Looking at a slightly longer window may be helpful because key evidence in the classified documents case leaked on May 26, several weeks before he was indicted.) His numbers have improved a bit since then among Republicans, but not among Americans as a whole.
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  273. Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/29/2023 @ 7:49 am

    So when a local prosecutor decides not to charge, for example, a police officer borderline case of brutality that has enraged the community, do you think everyone should be charged no matter the strength of evidence, or should the prosecutor make a judgement not to charge?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  274. Yahoo News/YouGov Poll 8/25/23

    Despite Republicans’ best efforts to neutralize the political impact of former President Donald Trump’s four criminal indictments by playing up the legal travails of President Biden’s son Hunter, a growing number of Americans say Trump and his family are more “corrupt” than Biden and his family, according to a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll.

    The survey of 1,665 U.S. adults, which was conducted from Aug. 17 to 21, found a 10-point gap between those who believe the Trumps are more corrupt (46%) and those who believe the Bidens are more corrupt (36%). The last time the question was asked, in October 2022, the margin between the Trumps (42%) and the Bidens (35%) was 7 points.

    Likewise, a majority of Americans (53%) now say Trump and his family are corrupt, compared with just 28% who say they are not. Since October, that gap has increased from 18 to 25 points. It is now more than twice as large as the 11-point difference between those who think the Bidens are corrupt (45%) and those who think they are not (34%).
    ………..
    When asked in October whether “Joe Biden did anything illegal regarding Hunter Biden,” 42% of respondents said yes. Today, after months of GOP accusations, that number (44%) is essentially unchanged.

    As usual, partisan polarization accounts for most of these “yes, Joe Biden broke the law” responses. To be clear, Republicans have not provided any evidence that “U.S. government decisions were altered to benefit the Biden family, or that President Biden may have received bribes, or that there are direct links between the older Biden and Hunter Biden’s business deals, discussions or payments.” Nonetheless, a full 86% of 2020 Trump voters say Biden either “probably” (17%) or “definitely” (69%) committed Hunter-related crimes. Just 13% of 2020 Biden voters agree.
    ……….
    ……….Nearly two-thirds of Americans (64%) now believe Hunter Biden definitely or probably did something illegal, up 13 points (from 51%) since last October.

    Interestingly, that shift is being driven mainly by Democrats. ………

    The likeliest explanation? The fact that Hunter Biden, unlike Trump, has actually signaled his willingness to plead guilty to crimes………..
    ……….
    ……….(O)nly 41% of Americans think Hunter “funneled millions of dollars to his father in a long-running scheme to help Joe Biden profit off of his position.”
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  275. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2023 @ 9:38 am

    ……….(O)nly 41% of Americans think Hunter “funneled millions of dollars to his father in a long-running scheme to help Joe Biden profit off of his position.”

    Only 41%? The idea is completely crazy, That’s because talk radio, right wing cable TV, and some other surces keep on repeating it.

    Everybody seems to entitled to their own facts.

    Editorials are full of errors!

    Joe Biden used his secret power to withhold loan guarantees to fire a good prosecutor!

    Or, on the other wis=de, the Jan 6 2021 storming of the Capitol was an attempt by Donald Trump to prevent the certification of the election of Joe Biden as president., (he had a different plan to slow it down, which this disrupted, and which the Jan 6 committee never talked about and going past noon on Jan 20 would only have made House Speaker Nancy Pelosi Acting president – it would not have extended his term by a single second,)
    ………..

    Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5)

  276. n The fact that Hunter Biden, unlike Trump, has actually signaled his willingness to plead guilty to crimes………..

    Even more, that a favorable plea bargain had to be withdrawn, There are signs of a cover-up,

    Which the Inspector General cannot invesigate:

    https://nypost.com/2023/08/22/doj-ig-cites-potential-limitation-in-review-of-hunter-biden-coverup-claims

    It probably belongs to the Office of Professional Responsibility,

    Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5)

  277. Joe Biden does nt have to be guilty of any crime himself to want to protect his son from prosecution or jail.

    Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5)

  278. @273

    Pierre Delecto says tsk-tsk.

    I agree that using a false name in emails is sketchy, particularly since they’re held by NARA, so they’re presumably presidential records under the PRA. Is it illegal? I don’t know, but at the very least it’s sketchy. The Daily Mail did good work.

    The other question is about the contents of those emails. They should be made public.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/29/2023 @ 9:14 am

    Nah, Daddy Biden didn’t know nuthin about Hunter’s bidness.

    It’s all good and for funzy. Get wit it Paulie!

    whembly (5f7596)

  279. So, there’s been this Congressional Committee hard at work. They are really concerned about the Biden Briber Scandal. They mean to get to the bottom of this. And they issue all these memos and press releases and stuff. And they have access to that laptop and the goo on it. How else could they put the porn in their meeting notes?

    But, but…All of these stories the Biden folks have got come from the NY Post and the Mail. Why won’t whatever committee is doing these investigations take these into account in some meaningful way and follow up leads and get to the bottom of it? Why don’t they have anything, except the usual Burisma blather, that truly suggests the bribery they are so desperate to insinuate?

    Among all the cats that are screeching there lullabys, there is the persistent non-barking of dog.

    Appalled (a4d5ca)

  280. The Consolidation of the Republican Field Has Begun:

    Miami Mayor Francis Suarez ended his long shot presidential bid Tuesday after failing to qualify for the first Republican primary debate in Milwaukee. He is the first GOP candidate to drop out of the race.
    ………
    Suarez centered his campaign on his record of success in Miami, winning re-election as a Republican in one of Florida’s bluest cities. But his candidacy struggled to gain momentum as he campaigned in early states only a handful of times —making only three trips to Iowa and two to New Hampshire since announcing his bid in June.
    ………
    The Miami mayor also believed he met the RNC’s polling requirement, thinking three polls in which he’d hit the necessary 1% would be counted and that he would be allowed to debate. Suarez prematurely celebrated making the stage, posting a video that’s since been deleted, before learning one of those polls wasn’t counted by the RNC.
    ………
    Controversy swirled around Suarez’s campaign from the start after the Miami Herald reported he had doubled his net worth to $3.4 million during his time as mayor, leading critics to question if he was using his political standing for personal gain. Speaking to NBC News in July, Suarez was unapologetic.
    ……….

    Comedy Gold!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  281. Pardon the typos in my 280. I am just puzzled the people who have all this evidence of Biden bribes can’t seem to connect to the GOP congresscritters that so badly wants an excuse for an impeachment. My guess is that the “evidence” works better on the insinuation level.

    Appalled (a4d5ca)

  282. Nah, Daddy Biden didn’t know nuthin about Hunter’s bidness.

    It makes Joe a liar, which has been established.
    Does it make it illegal? Like I said about this thing called evidence.
    Does it warrant further investigation? Yes.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  283. Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5) — 8/29/2023 @ 8:30 am

    A pile of pedantry that changes nothing.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  284. The other question is about the contents of those emails. They should be made public.

    New rule: Official correspondence by high officials is subject to FoI requests. Unofficial correspondence is released to the public domain whenever discovered.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  285. Morning Consult Republican Primary Tracking Poll 8/29/23

    ……….
    Former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley saw a bump in support (from 3% to 5%) following the debate.

    A separate survey conducted over the weekend found that 62% of potential primary voters think Trump has the best chance of beating Biden, up 9 percentage points over the previous week and matching a high in Morning Consult’s tracking of the question since April.
    ………..
    The bulk of the GOP’s electorate (58%) would back Trump if the primary or caucus were held in their state today, while 14% would support DeSantis. This is unchanged from the previous week.

    Ramaswamy is backed by 10% of the party’s potential voters, followed by former Vice President Mike Pence (6%), Haley (5%), former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie (3%), South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott (2%) and former Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson (1%). North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum, former Texas Rep. Will Hurd and Miami Mayor Francis Suarez each have 0% backing.
    ……….
    Trump is popular with 76% of the party’s potential electorate, while 22% view him unfavorably.

    Ramaswamy’s net favorability rating — the share who hold favorable views minus the share who hold unfavorable views — has declined by 9 points following the first debate.
    ……….
    Haley saw a boost in positive buzz following the debate. About 3 in 10 potential primary voters heard something positive about her while 13% heard something negative — though the bulk of the GOP’s primary electorate (68%) reported hearing nothing at all.
    ………..

    The survey was conducted Aug. 25-27, 2023.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  286. So when a local prosecutor decides not to charge, for example, a police officer borderline case of brutality that has enraged the community, do you think everyone should be charged no matter the strength of evidence, or should the prosecutor make a judgement not to charge?

    Way to go from “give green cards to undocumented immigrants who have no legal basis to remain in the country” to “remove all discretion whatsoever for any reason.”

    Absurd. “Faithfully execute the law” means just that. And exceptions, when considered individually and faithfully, do not violate that, nor do decisions based on resources. But wholesale ignoring of laws, as in “I won’t change people with shoplifting” is not the same as individual decisions like “I won’t charge this hungry child, here, with stealing a candy bar.”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  287. (O)nly 41% of Americans think Hunter “funneled millions of dollars to his father in a long-running scheme to help Joe Biden profit off of his position.”

    “Only” 41% think the President took bribes? Do you think that diminishes the charge?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  288. Joe Biden does not have to be guilty of any crime himself to want to protect his son from prosecution or jail.

    For him to DO so, using the power of his office, IS a crime. For him to let 41% THINK that he was guilty of a criminal conspiracy as a result is worse than a crime, it’s a blunder.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  289. Miami Mayor Francis Suarez ended his long shot presidential bid

    He got some more name recognition for his upcoming campaign for governor. Objective achieved.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  290. Haley saw a boost in positive buzz following the debate. About 3 in 10 potential primary voters heard something positive about her while 13% heard something negative — though the bulk of the GOP’s primary electorate (68%) reported hearing nothing at all.

    Most of this is a lack of listening, and/or allowing the MSM to filter the debate down to a few buzzwords.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  291. “Only” 41% think the President took bribes? Do you think that diminishes the charge?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/29/2023 @ 11:20 am

    That percentage is driven by the Trump voters:

    But only 41% of Americans think Hunter “funneled millions of dollars to his father in a long-running scheme to help Joe Biden profit off of his position.”

    Among 2020 Trump voters, that number soars to 86%. Among 2020 Biden voters, it plummets to just 9%.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  292. Among 2020 Trump voters, that number soars to 86%. Among 2020 Biden voters, it plummets to just 9%.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2023 @ 11:46 am

    This is how you get a poo-flinging contest.

    norcal (48b8e7)

  293. AJC poll: Trump leads Republicans in Georgia despite Fulton County charges

    Former President Donald Trump has a dominant lead over Republican rivals in Georgia despite his electoral setbacks in the state, according to an Atlanta Journal-Constitution poll that suggests his unprecedented legal peril hasn’t damaged his comeback bid.

    Trump led the GOP field of presidential contenders with 57% in the poll of likely Republican voters, with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis a distant second at 15%. Every other contender was mired in single digits, while 14% of the respondents were undecided.

    The former president held double-digit advantages in every category of voter polled, leading with the wealthy and the poor, the highly educated and those without high school degrees, the young and the not-so-young.

    In a hypothetical two-way matchup against DeSantis, Trump had an overwhelming 33-point lead. And half of Georgia Republicans say Trump is “definitely” the strongest candidate to defeat President Joe Biden next year.
    ……….
    If there is a glimmer of hope for the other Republican contenders, it’s that one-third of Trump’s supporters said they were open to considering an alternative. On the flip side, nearly one-third of those backing another GOP hopeful said they would still consider voting for Trump.
    ………
    ……… Republicans remain divided over the charges accusing Trump and his co-defendants of a complex conspiracy to overturn his 2020 defeat. About half say the charges are serious, while 44% say they aren’t serious.

    And 71% say they have already made their minds up regarding whether Trump is guilty or innocent over his involvement in the mob that attacked the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021.
    ……….
    “The indictments are only making Trump’s case stronger. People are sick of all this. Did he do wrong? Probably,” said Misty White, a Trump supporter in Rome. “But at the end of the day, we’re concerned with our own pocketbooks, our security as a nation.”

    Still, some Republicans draw the line over a conviction. Some 37% said they wouldn’t vote for a political candidate who has been convicted by a jury of a felony crime, while 41% said they would. About one-fifth of Republican voters were undecided.
    ………

    From the poll:

    Trump 56%

    DeSantis 14.6

    Pence 3.6

    Haley 2.5

    Scott 2.8

    Ramaswamy 2.8

    Christie 2.4

    Undecided 13.9

    The poll’s margin of error is 3.4%, so all of the candidates expect Trump and DeSantis are polling between 0% and the poll results.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  294. Correction:

    The poll’s margin of error is 3.4%, so all of the candidates expect except Trump and DeSantis are polling between 0% and the poll results.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2023 @ 12:04 pm

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  295. At this point, FL should just do Jungle primaries, they would end up with 2 Rs in most if not all state races, the opposite of CA.

    urbanleftbehind (a790f6)

  296. It’s Deja Vu All Over Again:

    Vivek Ramaswamy once asked a rather prescient question that applies to himself today.

    Ramaswamy, a businessman who has never held public office, is currently campaigning for the GOP presidential nomination. But in 2003, he was an 18-year-old Harvard student who asked the Rev. Al Sharpton about his lack of experience as a Democratic candidate for president.

    “Rev. Sharpton, hello,” said Ramaswamy during an Oct. 27, 2003, MSNBC town hall hosted by Chris Matthews. “I’m Vivek and I want to ask you, last week on the show we had Sen. [John] Kerry, and this week and the week before, we had Sen. [John] Edwards.”

    “And my question for you is, of all the Democratic candidates out there, why should I vote for the one with the least political experience?” Ramaswamy asked.
    ………
    On Monday, Ramaswamy responded to the resurfaced footage by seemingly rejecting his own premise — and agreeing with Sharpton.

    “I’ll give the 18-year-old version of myself a pat-on-the-back for eliciting the most sensible words ever to come from that man’s mouth,” Ramaswamy wrote on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter. “20 years later, it’s funny how the tables have turned.”
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  297. The poll’s margin of error is 3.4%, so all of the candidates expect except Trump and DeSantis are polling between 0% and the poll results.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/29/2023 @ 12:04 pm

    It doesn’t work that way. True, it is very hard for polls to measure anything whose true value is, let’s say, below 5%, but that is because of people giving random answers or just lying.

    The margin of error is 3.4% of the percentage. At 50% it is 3.4% (with say a 95% percent probability of being within that range if any error is solely due to sampling error; at 5% it is about 1/6 of 1% – maybe more because it is so low, but it is not that it as a high probability of being zero.

    It is very hard to find something discussing margin of error where the result you get is nowhere near 50%.

    Low sample size, yes.

    I’m probably not using the right search terms,

    Sammy Finkelman (c5132f)

  298. 297. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeCyYJYvMLs&t=31s

    Sharpton answered that no you shouldn’t vote for the person with the least political experience, but actually he had the most political experience – he’d been involved in the political movement since age 12.

    Don’t confuse a person who has a job (titleholders) with

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeCyYJYvMLs&t=31s

    Al Sharpton was fast on is feet says someone on MSNBC. One talked to him – he has no memory of that exchange – he talked to voters every day.

    Sammy Finkelman (c5132f)

  299. SF: Joe Biden does not have to be guilty of any crime himself to want to protect his son from prosecution or jail.

    289. Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/29/2023 @ 11:22 am

    For him to DO so, using the power of his office, IS a crime

    Not the same kind of crime that was polled about. That was about whether Hunter “funneled millions of dollars to his father in a long-running scheme to help Joe Biden profit off of his position.” The percentage of people who believe it is Covering up for Hunter That is possibly less than 41%

    For him to let 41% THINK that he was guilty of a criminal conspiracy as a result is worse than a crime, it’s a blunder.

    and it’s not a blunder if it is true that was trying to use the power of his office to protect his son. Right now the matter is very much in doubt. Clearing this up wouldn’t help him if it turns out to be true.

    As for the funneling, the more attention drawn to Hunter the worse for him. First, he clearly tolerated and facilitated Hunter’s influence peddling, even if he did not profit from it, and second, it could come out that he lied when he said:

    https://www.cfr.org/event/foreign-affairs-issue-launch-former-vice-president-joe-biden

    …And I went over, I guess, the 12th, 13th time to Kiev. And I was supposed to announce that there was another billion-dollar loan guarantee. And I had gotten a commitment from Poroshenko and from Yatsenyuk that they would take action against the state prosecutor. And they didn’t.

    So they said they had—they were walking out to a press conference. I said, nah, I’m not going to—or, we’re not going to give you the billion dollars. They said, you have no authority. You’re not the president. The president said—I said, call him. (Laughter.) I said, I’m telling you, you’re not getting the billion dollars. I said, you’re not getting the billion. I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. (Laughter.) He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time.

    There’s not a word of truth in all that, except for the fact that Shokin, at some point, got fired, and he was replaced, temporarily, by Lutsenko, whom Biden acknowledges there was not good.

    I think Biden believes that’s a hand grenade that could destroy his candidacy. He skated in 2020 but it’s not guaranteed that his words could be re-examined and checked against reality.

    He’s keeping George Kent, quiet. George Kent is familiar with how Shokin got fired and what Biden was doing, employed by the U.S. government as Ambassador to Estonia (the same tactic Bill Clinton did by keeping Linda Tripp and Monica Lewinsky in U.S. government employ – except that he made the blunder f sending them both to the exact same office! They were keeping totally different things secret. (Linda Tripp about Vincent Foster’s sudden change of mood)

    The only defense Biden has tolerated being made is that, in urging the firing, he was carrying out Obama Administration policy, and that Viktor Shokin was not investigating Burisma.

    But he can’t tolerate too much attention being paid to that matter.

    I think he feels like it could explode like a hand grenade.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  300. https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-claims-have-literally-convinced-strom-thurmond-vote-civil-rights-act-21-years-old

    I think Biden may mean the Voting Rights extension of 1982 – did Strom Thurmond vote for that?

    Sammy Finkelman (c5132f)

  301. The margin of error is 3.4% of the percentage

    No, it is not. There is a complex formula, which (for a confidence factor of 0.95) is:

    M0E = 1.96 * (√(P * (1-p))) / (√N)

    where P is the percentage given for the choice and N is the total sample size.

    So, for N = 1000 and a candidate with a 50% preference, the MoE is about 3.1%

    In the same poll, a candidate with a 5% result has an MoE of 1.35%

    The way reporters use these numbers in comparisons is really only valid in close two-person races.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  302. The poll’s margin of error is 3.4%, so all of the candidates expect except Trump and DeSantis are polling between 0% and the poll results.

    THis is not even close to being right, but not for the reasons Sammy gives. A candidate polling 5% in an N=1000 poll is 95% likely to be within 6.35% and 3.65%

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  303. The reasons that polls disagree so much has more to do with methodology and introduced bias due to “corrections.”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  304. For example, a poll that only calls landlines, then tries to correct the age bias introduced has many sources of errors other than randomness.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  305. @306

    For example, a poll that only calls landlines, then tries to correct the age bias introduced has many sources of errors other than randomness.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/29/2023 @ 4:14 pm

    There’s also inherent bias by the sheer fact that the poll was done on landlines. I can’t think of any of my friends/family members having a landline. o.O

    whembly (3b98b6)

  306. More in the brewing SC cases on social media censorship:

    There are already two cases likely for next term regarding similar [FL and TX] state laws regulating social media actions against user content (the services claim their freedom of speech allows blocking user’s speech; the states disagree), now that the federal government has replied to the court’s inquiry by suggesting that the court decide the cases.

    Now, a California case tries to connect the dots between California asking Twitter to take down posts, and the posts being taken down.

    In 2018, California established an Office of Election Cybersecurity to combat misinformation posted online about voting and the electoral process. Overseen by California’s secretary of state, the office works closely with social media companies to identify posts about elections that might violate the platforms’ own guidelines on misinformation.

    Although the ultimate decision about whether to remove content rests with the platforms, the state’s designation has overwhelmingly proven decisive. During the 2020 election cycle, for example, 98% of the nearly 300 posts that the Office of Election Cybersecurity had flagged as potential misinformation for Facebook and Twitter were removed.

    Rogan O’Handley is an attorney and active political commentator on Twitter under the handle @DC_Draino. A week after the 2020 election, he posted a tweet calling for ballots in California to be audited. “Election fraud is rampant nationwide,” he wrote, “and we all know California is one of the culprits[.] Do it to protect the integrity of that state’s elections[.]” The Office of Election Cybersecurity flagged the message for Twitter, which added a warning to the tweet that O’Handley’s claim was disputed and issued a “strike” against his account.

    In February 2021, Twitter suspended O’Handley’s account after issuing four additional strikes against him under more stringent content-moderation policies instituted following the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S Capitol. (O’Handley’s account was reactivated this year.)

    Four months after his account was suspended, O’Handley filed a lawsuit against Twitter and California Secretary of State Shirley Weber. O’Handley argued that Twitter and California had acted in tandem to restrict his First Amendment rights.

    A federal district court in California dismissed the claims, and the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit upheld that decision. The court of appeals ruled that although “it is possible to draw a causal line from the OEC’s flagging of the November 12th post to O’Handley’s suspension,” there was no “state action” for O’Handley to challenge under the First Amendment. California certainly exercised governmental authority when it flagged O’Handley’s tweet, the 9th Circuit reasoned, but it took no explicit action restricting his speech. And although Twitter did limit O’Handley’s speech, the court explained, it was following its own rules, rather than acting on the state’s behalf.

    In O’Handley v. Weber, O’Handley asks the justices to grant review and reverse the 9th Circuit’s decision. O’Handley argues that the distinction between California’s flagging of his tweet and Twitter’s disciplinary response is illusory: Twitter had never monitored his content before it was flagged by the Office of Election Cybersecurity, he contends, and it would not have subjected him to greater scrutiny had the state not brought attention to his account. He urges the court to reinstate his lawsuit so he can introduce further evidence that California exercises coercive authority over online content.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  307. More good news for the Ukrainians about Tokmak, a town of strategic importance.

    Russian occupation “authorities” reportedly began leaving the city of Tokmak in the Ukraine’s south, according to locals

    The city is the first on the way of the Ukrainian counteroffensive, located 20 km from the current frontline.

    This is similar to what happened in Kherson last fall.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  308. Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/29/2023 @ 7:25 pm

    Even more good news………

    Explosions erupted at a Russian airfield after a Ukrainian drone attack on a fleet of Vladimir Putin’s warplanes overnight.

    Thick plumes of smoke and fire was seen rising from Pskov airfield in western Russia in the aftermath of the aggressive aerial assault strike.

    Local media reported that four Il-76s strategic airlifters and a nearby oil depot were damaged in last night’s attack that was over 400 miles from Ukraine.
    ……………
    It marks the second daring late night strike by Kyiv deep behind enemy lines in recent days.

    Last Friday, Ukraine launched a spectacular nighttime missile strike inside Russia at a military airfield where Putin’s supersonic Tu-22M3 strategic bombers are based.
    ……………
    Ukraine is alleged to have fired a fearsome modified S-200 missile to blitz Putin’s prized bombers based at the Shaykovka military airfield.

    Two major Moscow international airports – Vnukovo and Domodedovo – were closed, leading to significant disruption for incoming and outgoing planes.

    It comes as last week, Ukraine claimed earlier attacks on Shaykovka and Soltsy airbase in the Novgorod region that led to two of Putin’s prized supersonic Tu-22M3 strategic bombers being destroyed.

    Although Russian sources claimed it was only “damaged”, footage from the attack on August 20 revealed the long-range nuclear missile carrier engulfed in a devastating inferno.
    …………..
    Meanwhile in the Russian-occupied Kherson region, Ukraine obliterated a £160million Russian radar station with US-made HIMARS missiles.

    Dramatic drone footage captured the moment the Predel-E coastal over-the-horizon radar system exploded into pieces on Monday following a pinpoint strike by Volodymyr Zelensky’s forces.
    ########

    Sad!

    Rip Murdock (c66d82)

  309. Photos and video at link.

    Rip Murdock (c66d82)

  310. Because why wouldn’t he?

    And of course there’s this classic.

    Now if I don’t see a moose in a Miata, I’m going to be disappointed.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  311. Now if I don’t see a moose in a Miata, I’m going to be disappointed.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=mAu9-KSI_Ik

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  312. Because why wouldn’t he?

    I’m curious about the vehicle code section they cited.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  313. Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/30/2023 @ 10:50 pm

    Not a Miata, but well played.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  314. More Good News From Ukraine:

    Ukrainian forces have penetrated the main Russian defensive line in their country’s southeast, raising hopes of a breakthrough that would reinvigorate the slow-moving counteroffensive.

    Ukrainian paratroopers are fighting through entrenched Russian positions on the edge of the village of Verbove, a Ukrainian officer in the area said. Ukrainian forces have also reached the main defensive line to the south of nearby Robotyne village, he said. Ukraine’s military confirmed advances toward Verbove and south of Robotyne, without giving details.

    ……….The significance of the advance is that it marks the first time Ukraine has penetrated the main Russian defensive line, an extensive system of minefields, trenches and antitank obstacles covered by artillery.
    ……….
    Ukrainian advances in recent days have led to cautious optimism among Western intelligence services that Ukraine can retake the occupied city of Tokmak, a logistical hub for Russia, according to senior Western intelligence officials.
    ………..
    The counteroffensive is aimed at slicing down to the Sea of Azov in Ukraine’s southeast, cutting Russian occupation forces in two and seizing back some of the nearly 20% of Ukrainian territory that Moscow holds. The West supplied Ukraine with hundreds of armored vehicles, including tanks, and trained thousands of troops for the operation.
    ……….
    U.S.-supplied cluster bombs are having a significant impact, soldiers said. Ukrainians on the offensive are using the munitions—which release dozens of smaller bomblets and can cause devastation over a broader area than ordinary artillery shells—to target Russian troops running across open ground, either to flee or to provide reinforcements.

    Ukraine’s aim is to create a corridor through the Russian lines, pushing enemy artillery back far enough to allow Western-provided armored vehicles to move through the gap and receive supplies.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  315. Prediction: Next month, the US State Department will make a report on PEPFAR, a program that has saved, so far, more than 20 million lives. (Bill Gates recently said 25 million.)

    The report will receive little attention from ABC, CBS, NBC, the NYT, the Guardian, or even the BBC.

    The BBC is the news organization best suited to give this program the coverage it deserves, since so many of the people saved live in former British colonies.

    And I would love to have the BBC prove me wrong.

    Jim Miller (dd40b3)

  316. So, let’s assume the following:

    1. Before the 2024 election, Trump is convicted in GA for multiple felonies, and is sentenced to 5 years in prison.
    2. Trump win the election.
    3. Trump is incarcerated before January 20th, 2025.
    4. Georgia courts refuse to release Trump, despite being President-elect.

    Does this constitute an “inability to serve”, invoking the 25th Amendment?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  317. So, let’s assume the following:

    1. Before the 2024 election, Trump is convicted in GA for multiple felonies, and is sentenced to 5 years in prison.
    2. Trump win the election.
    3. Trump is incarcerated before January 20th, 2025.
    4. Georgia courts refuse to release Trump, despite being President-elect.

    Does this constitute an “inability to serve”, invoking the 25th Amendment?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/31/2023 @ 9:23 am

    I’m sure they can install a phone and fax machine in his cell.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  318. The report will receive little attention from ABC, CBS, NBC, the NYT, the Guardian, or even the BBC.

    Maybe we’ll get lucky and Trump will denounce it.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  319. If Obama had started PEPFAR, we’d be hearing about it’s success daily. But it was W who did it, so crickets.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  320. More “compassionate conservatism.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  321. More “compassionate conservatism.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/31/2023 @ 9:51 am

    To the tune of $110,000,000,000 (so far.)

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  322. November of 2022 the Department of State laid out the plan:

    PEPFAR’s 5-year Strategy
    Fulfilling America’s Promise to end the HIV/AIDS Pandemic by 2030

    Program Goals:
    1. Reach the global 95-95-951 treatment targets for all ages, genders, and population groups.

    2. Reduce new HIV infections dramatically through effective prevention and treatment, in support
    of UNAIDS targets

    3. Close equity gaps for priority populations, including adolescent girls and young women, key
    populations, and children

    4. Transform the PEPFAR program towards sustaining HIV impact and long-term sustainability by strengthening the capabilities of government, communities, the private sector, and local partners to lead and manage the program.

    5. Make measurable and sustainable gains in partner country public health systems and health security to strengthen public health prevention, data, and response capabilities for HIV as well as other health threats

    Maybe they would prefer the DEI aspect stays under the radar.

    BuDuh (7772c6)

  323. 3. Trump is incarcerated before January 20th, 2025.

    This can only happen if bail is revoked.

    Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5)

  324. 309. In order for Ukraine to prevail, it must have a military success by surprise, not only for Russia, but also for the United States (because President Biden is unlikely to authorize delivery if Ukraine could maybe win by it, as opposed to preventing a Ukrainian loss.

    But Putin will not choose use of nuclear weapons over stopping the war, because, for one thing, use of nuclear weapons is very dangerous for Russia (not to mention poisoning the air Putin and people close to him will breathe) and the consequences very unpredictable but not likely to help him.

    Sammy Finkelman (f37bf5)


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