Weekend Open Thread – Guest Bloggers in Secure Yet Undisclosed Locations
[guest post by JVW]
With both guest bloggers on super-secret missions on behalf of brand awareness for Patterico’s Pontifications, this Weekend Open Thread might end up being somewhat slapdash and haphazard. I’m starting this on Tuesday night in the hopes of getting a little bit up every day, but the final product will be what it’s gonna be. With that, it’s rosin on the bow and here we go:
Item 1 – Nicholas Kristof, Affirmative Action Kid
The Chronicle of Higher Education asks why our old friend Nicholas Kristof is claiming to have been the beneficiary of affirmative action, believing that growing up in rural Oregon made him exotic and thus and interesting candidate in the eyes of Harvard’s Admissions Office, when in fact his background was fairly straightforward by Harvard’s standards:
In a recent column, The New York Times’s Nicholas Kristof explained that he had been a beneficiary of affirmative action: “Elite colleges were looking for farm kids from low-income areas to provide diversity. So a school that I had never visited, Harvard, took an enormous risk and accepted me, and I became a token country bumpkin to round out a class of polished overachievers. In time, Harvard gave me a wonderful education, transformed my life and set me on a path to becoming a columnist — which is why you’re stuck reading this.”
Readers were quick to point out that both of Kristof’s parents were professors. His father, Ladis Kristof, was born in a part of the former Austro-Hungarian Empire now in Ukraine; he was imprisoned by the Nazis and eventually made it to the United States, where he graduated from Reed College, in Oregon, in 1955. According to Reed’s alumni magazine, Ladis became “a political scientist of international renown; a Fulbright Scholar to Romania, and a visiting professor at universities in India, Moldova, Poland, and Romania.” Nicholas’s mother, Jane McWilliams, was also a professor; she retired emerita at Portland State.
So Kristof was a double-professor brat with exactly the kind of advantages that might make one unusually competitive when applying for college — no first-generation college student here. Far from taking “an enormous risk,” Harvard was making a very safe bet. Why does Kristof work so hard to imply otherwise?
Mr. Kristof no doubt wrote a stirring essay about getting up at dawn to feed the chickens, milk the cows, bale the hay, hitch up the family’s one ox to the rusty old plow and make a pass at the north field, and then walk the four miles to his one-room schoolhouse where the room was illuminated with kerosene and heated with a coal stove. But maybe he really is onto something. We’ve pointed out before that affirmative action as practiced by Harvard was far more beneficial to middle-class and upper-class minorities than it was to kids from the mean streets, so it’s only fair that Mr. Kristof sees himself as an extension of that phony-baloney program.
Item 10 – Not Looking So Great for the USWNT
The United States Women’s National Team has thus far been incredibly underwhelming at the FIFA Women’s World Cup tournament being jointly hosted by Australia and New Zealand. After a rather pedestrian 3-0 victory over Vietnam, a team the U.S. women were expected to trounce by somewhere around twice that margin, the team played absolutely uninspired tie games with Holland, ranked ninth in the world, and then Portugal, ranked twenty-first. Their record of one victory versus two draws places the U.S., who entered the tournament as the world’s number one ranked team, into the elimination round as the second finisher in their group, placing them in a win-or-go-home game on Sunday morning against Sweden, ranked as the world’s number three team. Should they survive that match, their next opponent would be either Japan, ranked eleventh, or Norway, ranked twelfth, and it would only get harder from there.
Item 11 – Third Time Is the Charm
This ultra-tolerant attitude towards criminality is really paying off in the Bay Area:
CNN senior national correspondent Kyung Lah said her rental car was broken into while she was on assignment in Oakland, Calif., on Wednesday, marking the third time in the last year her car has been broken into while she was on assignment in the Bay Area.
Lah said in a series of posts on X that she was in Oakland shooting a story about crime when her “completely empty” car was broken into.
“We were across the street— this happened in seconds,” she said, adding in a second post that “Even tho the car is empty, the thieves break in and lower the seat so they can steal anything in the trunk.”
[. . .]
Back in March, Lah shared that she and CNN producer Jason Kravarik had their bags stolen out of their rental car while on assignment at San Francisco’s city hall for a story about the city’s rampant crime.
While the pair were conducting an interview at city hall, thieves broke into their car and snatched their bags “in under 4 seconds,” despite the crew having hired private security to keep watch.
[. . .]
This time around, an employee for the rental-car company told Lah that of the 250 cars returned to the lot yesterday, 27 had been broken into — more than 10 percent of returned cars.
How long until the first politician complains about the rising cost of rental car rentals and car insurance in the Bay Area, and blames greedy corporations for gouging the hard-working citizen?
Item 100 – Suing College Accreditation Cartels
Florida pushes the anti-woke agenda further by suing the Southern Associations of Colleges and Schools. George Leef has the details:
College accreditation used to be the most soporific of topics. Almost nobody was interested in it because accreditation meant so little. Accrediting agencies had their standards that kept degree mills from fooling people into thinking they were real colleges. Nothing wrong with that, but it wasn’t a matter of national concern.
In recent years, however, accreditation has become highly controversial. The reason is that the accrediting agencies have ceased to be neutral parties who apply reasonable standards to ensure that students are not squandering their federal student-aid funds on dodgy schools that are just interested in cashing in on easy money. Instead, the accreditors have become activists who want to direct how colleges and universities will be run. They have badly overstepped their boundaries, and that has now triggered a lawsuit against the Department of Education.
You can see where the rest of the story is going, but click through to the article for full details.
Item 101 – The Summer of Strikes Roils the Golden State
In addition to the Writers Guild of America strike, joined in solidarity by the Screen Actors Guild-American Federation of Television and Radio Artists, and the hotel workers strikes ongoing throughout Southern California, comes word that some pretty high-paid state workers might also take to the picket lines:
The union representing doctors and psychiatrists working in California correctional facilities said that 91% of voting members authorized a strike Monday. Non-competitive salaries, strenuous working conditions and an overreliance on higher-paid contracted doctors, make it difficult to hire staff physicians, said Dr. Stuart Bussey, president of the umbrella Union of American Physicians and Dentists.
[. . .]
The biggest sticking point is salaries. Though doctors and psychiatrists pull down between $285,000 and $343,000 annually, according to California Correctional Health Care Services, temporary contracted workers make twice as much, said Dr. Nader Wassef, psychiatrist and chief of staff at Napa State Hospital.
“I am not going to claim poverty. What I’m trying to say is if we plan on getting trained, qualified psychiatrists to treat these patients, we are not going to get any because we are not competitive,” Wassef said.
The vacancy rate among on-site psychiatrists exceeded 50% in June, according to court documents filed by the state in an ongoing lawsuit over prison conditions and prisoner safety. Among all psychiatrists, including telehealth providers, the vacancy rate was 35%.
More than 20% of primary care doctor positions are vacant, California Correctional Health Care Services told CalMatters in an unsigned statement Tuesday. The agency did not respond to questions about contractor pay.
Lucky we have a state dominated by the union-friendly political party, right? But of course that same party receives massive donations from both sides in the Hollywood and the hotel strikes, and they have the challenge of finding the budget money to help pay for all of those prison sawbones and shrinks. Good luck to them.
Item 110 – More on Strike-mania in Southern California
Taylor Swift brings her “Eras” tour to Los Angeles tonight [this is being drafted on Thursday] for the first of six sold-out concerts at the SoFi Stadium in Inglewood. Some 400,000+ tickets have been sold for the shows. Estimates are that Ms. Swift herself realizes a net profit of about $5 million for every show she plays (there are other claims it is closer to three times that amount), and some studies suggest that her 46 shows in 17 U.S. cities this summer will bring $4.6 billion dollars in economic activity over a five month period.
So naturally the aforementioned striking hotel workers want Ms. Swift to cancel her Los Angeles shows in solidarity with their cause. The workers are demanding an immediate raise of $5 per hour, followed by guaranteed raises of $3 per hour each year over the next two years. They also want healthcare, pensions, and no immigration checks via the eVerify system. The union, Unite Here Local 11, even got some of the more dopey and economically-illiterate California politicians such as hypocritical Lt. Governor Eleni Kounalakis; Patterico’s and my County Supervisor, Janice Hahn; and a whole host of other pandering Democrats to sign on to a letter asking Ms. Swift to postpone her Los Angeles concerts until the strike is settled, as if tens of thousands of young Swifties and their angry parents would then force those mean old hotels to immediately pay up. The delusion of labor-owned Democrats knows no bounds, even if Ms. Swift has recently outed herself as a typical entertainment leftie with all of the right political beliefs. Here’s wishing her a successful run at SoFi this extended weekend anyway.
Item 111 – Dianne Feinstein: Too Far Gone to Manage Her Own Affairs But Still Able to Serve in the Senate
The ending to Dianne Feinstein’s grossly overrated career keeps getting more and more sad. Last week we had the spectacle of her yet again acting bewildered in a Defense Committee hearing and having to be stage-managed by her colleagues. Now news comes that her daughter is exercising power of attorney to take care of the Senators personal legal affairs:
The daughter of Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., has been given power of attorney over the sitting senator and is handling the 90-year-old’s legal affairs.
Katherine Feinstein, 66, has filed two lawsuits on her mother’s behalf in an effort to gain access to the estate of the senator’s late husband. The senator’s decision to delegate management of her affairs comes as Democrats and Republicans on Capitol Hill argue whether Feinstein is no longer fit for office.
Katherine’s first lawsuit on her mother’s behalf relates to a California beach house owned by the senator’s late husband, Richard Blum. The lawsuit argues that Feinstein is seeking to sell the house in order to raise funds for her ongoing medical treatments.
The second lawsuit challenges the appointment of two other trustees in Blum’s estate: Michael Klein, a longtime lawyer for Blum, and Marc Scholvinck, a business partner of Blum’s, according to The New York Times.
It’s a sad reflection on the broken one-party political system in California which kept electing her long after it was apparent that she was not up to the job, and it’s a sad reflection on her party which keeps her in place in order to hold down an important spot on the Judiciary Committee, where her usefulness is in rubber-stamping President Biden’s nominees. A sad way for her to cement her (at best) mediocre legacy.
Item 1000 – Is this DeSantis-Newsom Thing on, or What?
Unannounced Presidential candidate Gavin Newsom has been out on the hustings challenging announced Presidential candidate Ron DeSantis to a debate over which state model — Newsom’s California vs. DeSantis’s Florida — is more stable and sane. After (rightly) ignoring his West Coast antagonist, the governor of America’s Penis now seems to be poised for a fight. Noah Rothman, for one, believes this might be a fine and necessary thing:
The California model and the Florida model are wildly distinct theories of how to balance economic optimization against the need to maximize human happiness. They are in competition already, and it would be valuable to hash out those distinctions in plain terms on a debate stage. If these two governors can respectfully advocate their respective philosophical approaches to governance, it would greatly clarify the stakes of the coming presidential contest. Indeed, such an engagement would likely prove vastly more informational than one defined by two aged, cantankerous bloviators whose highest aspirations for the country are to ensure that it doesn’t put them or their loved ones in jail.
He also recognizes that this could just turn into a pointless shitshow:
Of course, a DeSantis–Newsom debate could also devolve into bickering, point-scoring, and competing one-liners. If this debate becomes a contest of personalities, DeSantis’s deficiencies in that area could prove fatal. But if Hannity could keep the participants in this deliberation focused on arguing their competing theories of societal organization, it wouldn’t just be a far healthier political exercise than any to which Americans have been privy for many years; it would also showcase the superiority of the conservative model of state governance. And it might go a long way toward convincing the voting public that Florida’s state-level experiments deserve to go national.
In any case, I would sooner tune into this debate than any involving you-know-who. If the majority of Americans look at the California model versus the Florida model and determine that they like better the way the Golden State is managing things, then at least we can drop the pretense that the United States is still (barely) a center-right nation.
Enjoy the weekend. The summer is winding down and the kids will be back to school soon.
– JVW
At NRO, Jim Geraghty has further thoughts on Dianne Feinstein serving in the Senate while essentially being a ward of her daughter:
Sadly, keeping a Democrat-majority on the Senate Judiciary Committee means letting her serve out the next 17 months of her term, or maybe waiting for her to die in office.
JVW (2e2c2d) — 8/4/2023 @ 8:10 amhttps://americanaccountabilityfoundation.substack.com/p/ban-the-internal-combustion-engine
They want to ban cars and freedom of movement.
California totalitarianism forced on the nation.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 8/4/2023 @ 8:20 amRe: Strikes in California
Nobody cares. The Hollywood strike stories are falling farther and farther into the bottom of local newscasts, and there is very little, if any, coverage of the hotel workers’ strikes. And public employees that strike should be arrested.
Personally the federal labor legislation protecting unions should be repealed, making strikes illegal and the unions subject to anti-trust prosecution.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/4/2023 @ 8:39 amRe: Newsom-DeSantis
It’s the first debate of the general election. 😊
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/4/2023 @ 8:41 amRe: Newsom-DeSantis II
Also, DeSantis needs the debate to fix his speaking style. He’s as stiff as a board.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/4/2023 @ 8:45 amJVW, I tried twice posting a quote and a link from here: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/david-garrow-interview-obama
I am not sure what is keeping it from posting.
BuDuh (9a76cd) — 8/4/2023 @ 9:01 amThat Fox debate is DeSantis’s to lose. If Newsom comes off poorly, well, it’s Fox and Hannity. If Newsom comes out of the lion’s den with a win, DeSantis is badly damaged.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 9:06 amIt’s the first debate of the general election.
We’ll see. I must admit though, that despite not liking either of them, it would be a far better contest than the odds bet.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 9:08 amThe Hollywood strike stories are falling farther and farther into the bottom of local newscasts
When the new TV Season is delayed until March, people will notice. You can grab their guns and make them use stupid pronouns, but mess with their TV and they’ll have nothing better to do than come after you.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 9:10 amThe CPA in me is rebelling against these item numbers.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/4/2023 @ 9:12 amI see that none of the items covered illegal immigration, so here’s my offering.
Regarding DF… I read once (sorry I don’t remember where) about a medieval practice. The law was “so long as there was life in” a person, they could sign contracts. So putting a fly in the mouth of a dead person, and using their hand to sign a document, could be done.
Sort of sounds like the Senate.
And all of our culture now is sort of like this:
https://youtu.be/UUWJWRn5m6E
It’s the “Crazy Years,” if you recognize the RAH reference.
Simon Jester (ff9c91) — 8/4/2023 @ 9:12 amThey want to ban cars and freedom of movement.
Batteries are getting better. One of the reasons I didn’t buy an electric car, and would maybe lease if I really had to. When batteries get to the point where they’ll last for a 10-hour highway drive, or can be recharged during lunch, that mobility issue will be less of a concern. OTOH, I expect they will have some plan to limit that freedom anyway (e.g. real-time GPS reporting).
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 9:16 amPersonally the federal labor legislation protecting unions should be repealed, making strikes illegal and the unions subject to anti-trust prosecution.
Yes, what could be fairer than every individual having to secure their own deal with a giant corporation?
As much as union power can be abused (particularly in the public sector), it is necessary in an age of trillion-dollar corporations. There was no noticeable middle class in the pre-union era; even those who work outside the union environment benefited from the changes unions forced.
A better reform is to ban public-employee unions, as government is responsible to the People, not stockholders.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 9:27 amI’m actually excited for this DeSantis-Newsom debate.
There’s no cost for Newsom to do this, even it he flames out.
There’s HUGE risk for DeSantis to flub this one, so kudos to him willing to stake his chances on this.
whembly (5f7596) — 8/4/2023 @ 9:49 amMeh. People can stream all the shows they either missed or want to watch again.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/4/2023 @ 9:49 am@15
There’s absolutely a place for private-sector unions.
However, public-sector unions should be prohibited as most of the time the negotiations aren’t adversarial.
As for Nursing unions, it’s a little unique to other professions as there’s a ‘direct harm’ component…namely, the patients. So, I don’t get the sense that those crossing the lines are treated as “scabs”, because nursing knows intuitively that patients need to be taken care of….beside, it harms the Hospital as they have to backfill positions during a strike with PRN staff, and PRN staff get’s paaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaid!
whembly (5f7596) — 8/4/2023 @ 9:54 amLOL! The DeSantis-Newsom “debate” is a sure sign of the dog days of summer. You would think an active Republican presidential candidate would have better things to do than debate a non-candidate Democrat. DeSantis got trolled and rose to the bait.
Public sector unions don’t have the power to hold a nation hostage like the International Longshore and Warehouse Union; the twelve unions representing railroad workers; the Teamsters; the Airline Pilots Association; the Oil, Chemical and Atomic Workers; and the United Steelworkers, to name a few. They can strangle the country.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:03 amRIP Marc Gilpin (56). As a child actor played Roy Scheider’s son in Jaws 2. Brother of actress Peri Gilpin (Frasier’s Roz Doyle).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:10 amThey can strangle the country.
And there are laws that deal with that eventuality.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:16 amAs a child actor played Roy Scheider’s son in Jaws 2
I know 2 child actors from the 60s and 70s. Neither has had a happy life.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:18 amI don’t know about Gilpin’s happiness or not, but I doubt it had anything to do with his death from brain cancer.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:25 amNJRob,
The Biden Administration is also limiting oil and gas production by halting pipeline and refinery construction and monitoring the resulting methane flares (with constant helicopter presence) in a move to force existing wells to be shut in. No producing wells, no oil and gas production, huge increase in gas at the pump.
That is a great reason to vote Republican. Too bad they are running a conman who only cares about himself.
DRJ (2e4ac4) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:33 amHow far does the “defrauding the government” statue reach? Let’s say that a presidential candidate is in possession of a volatile report about her opponent, but they believe it to be utter trash. Still, it seems like it would hurt the opponent, so they give it to contacts in the FBI and then leak it to friendly reporters. The opposing candidate is then subjected to months of FBI harassment, FISA warrants and press smears.
Has the government been defrauded? Have the People been defrauded? Are there bright lines here?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:36 am*
hertheir.My bad.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:37 amThat is a great reason to vote Republican. Too bad they are running a conman who only cares about himself.
Ignoring problems like this is how the CA GOP died. Instead of focusing on traffic, prices, rents and corruption, the CA GOP instead attacked the only fast-growing part of the population.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:39 amThe cheapest gas in my old CA zip code is $4.79/gallon. Most stations are well over $5. Here in NM, there are quite a few stations under $3.79.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:45 am@25
*caugh*RussiaGate by Clinton campaign*caugh*
whembly (5f7596) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:49 amI am pleased to see that at least we can agree that Kristof is an insufferable douchebag.
john (aff6cb) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:58 am@29 and 25, the predicate for the investigation into the trump campaign and the SC investigation wasn’t the steel dossier. It was statement made but a campaign staffer to a foreign diplomat.
The SC was appointed when Trump fired the FBI to stop investigations into Russian hacking of the DNC.
Time123 (62e27f) — 8/4/2023 @ 11:00 amTime,
That isn’t actually the question. Would knowingly presenting something false, like the Steel Dossier, to government agents for investigation, fall under the scope of this statute? Would knowingly leaking a false report like this to the press constitute a public fraud?
Not interested in who did what, when. Although the Hillary campaign’s actions did inspire the question, it have utterly no interest in relitigating that mess.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 11:13 amKevin, Interesting question. Probably take some research to understand the details of the law and what precedents exist about that scenario
Time123 (62e27f) — 8/4/2023 @ 11:27 amDefrauding the government under Section 371 means to interfere with or obstruct government functions through dishonesty, trickery, etc.
In your example, you would have to show Hillary knew the Steele Dossier was not true. Asking the government to investigate something she thought might be true, at least in part, strikes me as something the government is supposed to do, so that would not be interfering or obstructing.
DRJ (2e4ac4) — 8/4/2023 @ 11:57 amI don’t know whether leaking it to the media is illegal, but it would not be part of the defrauding the government statute.
DRJ (b2f0ad) — 8/4/2023 @ 12:02 pmWouldn’t they also have to show that the leaked info in question was being presented as fact? If it was “here’s this info we got, some of it’s concerning and we think you should look into it but we can’t promise it’s true.” That would be a different thing.
Time123 (62e27f) — 8/4/2023 @ 12:16 pmI’d say that the public sector unions can hold local areas hostage. In the county I live in, 17.5% of our 230,000 or so jobs are public sector union jobs. 137,000 people voted in the midterm. Union influence starts way before the vote. The local Democrat Party is not going to run a candidate without the public union stamp of approval
steveg (79eba3) — 8/4/2023 @ 12:58 pmA Useless Exercise:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/4/2023 @ 1:13 pmUSWNT
#1A The world talent is now better and deeper
#1B The European womens game is subsidized by the large European clubs
#2 The USWNT got (over)paid and lost their edge
The best thing for this team might be to suffer a large, embarrassing defeat and recalibrate. Or maybe they just need to petition FIFA to allow them to begin to transition 23 good U-18 men players so by 2027 they can have a stacked roster
steveg (79eba3) — 8/4/2023 @ 2:39 pmDesatan’s largest donor says he has stop funding desatan campaign because they are incompetent.
asset (8f7e1c) — 8/4/2023 @ 2:43 pmDo you not realize how juvenile calling him “Desatin” is? It almost makes me want to vote for him.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/4/2023 @ 2:53 pmExcuse me, I meant “Desatan.” Wouldn’t want to get that wrong.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/4/2023 @ 2:55 pm@41
The left fears DeSantis.
He warrants a strong look by the simple fact that his opponents fears him.
whembly (5f7596) — 8/4/2023 @ 3:01 pmLOL! There is nothing to fear from someone who is sinking like a rock:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/4/2023 @ 3:16 pmA more graphic portrayal of the DeSantis rock. DeSantis’s high point in January 2023 was a shade over 40%, his polling average now is down to 14%.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/4/2023 @ 3:22 pmAnd who consistently comes in second to Biden in head to head polls. Comedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/4/2023 @ 3:24 pmDo you not realize how juvenile calling him “Desatin” is? It almost makes me want to vote for him.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/4/2023 @ 2:53 pm
Hear, hear.
Asset, for the love of mike, stop using “Desatan” and “latinx”.
But only if you want people to take you seriously.
norcal (dc1a5d) — 8/4/2023 @ 3:26 pmThe odds of DeSantis becoming President (let alone the Republican nominee) laughably low, behind those of Newsom and RFK, Jr.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/4/2023 @ 4:06 pmItem 10 – Not Looking So Great for the USWNT:
Of course the big issue on the political right isn’t the team’s performance on the pitch, but the fact they aren’t singing the national anthem.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/4/2023 @ 4:17 pmhe will not donate more money unless the Florida governor attracts new major donors and adopts a more moderate approach.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/4/2023 @ 3:42 pm
As if a more moderate approach will dispel the Trump cult
norcal (dc1a5d) — 8/4/2023 @ 4:17 pmThe weird name calling is reminiscent of two prior frequent posters to this site who were banned for being persistent and obnoxious jackwagons. Your mileage may vary.
Me, I am tired of flexible yardsticks and schoolyard nonsense.
To each their own.
I view this period as an opportunity for each of us to define what we believe in, and why. Not what we are against, but what we are for.
So even when someone does good things, but is a bad person, should that person be supported? I know how I feel about it. Others differ.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 8/4/2023 @ 4:19 pmWere they the ones that said things like Orange Baboon, Trumpinistas, etc?
I kind of miss that quality conversation. Not really…
BuDuh (9a76cd) — 8/4/2023 @ 4:23 pmBigelow is speaking about DeSantis, not Trump.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/4/2023 @ 4:29 pm@41 he is evil. He hurts people for political gain.
asset (27e4d4) — 8/4/2023 @ 4:38 pm@52
Yes, if that person advances your preferred policies.
Because if you cant get past that person, and withhold your support due to the person, then you just voted for the other party.
We deserve the politicians we get.
whembly (c88dc4) — 8/4/2023 @ 4:42 pmI try to give news that is outside the conservative bubble that you might not be getting. I have the same problem with msdnc’s liberal establishment bubble. I need to here from both sides to get the dirt on the other side.
asset (27e4d4) — 8/4/2023 @ 4:49 pmObama promoted ObamaCare to expand health insurance, asset. It spread the wealth so some people got new/increased health benefits and some had benefits reduced. Some people won and some lost.
My family’s benefits were dramatically reduced because we had always bought the most coverage we could get — someething ObamaCare prohibited. Should I call Obama evil because he did that?
DRJ (2e4ac4) — 8/4/2023 @ 5:24 pmObama Biographer Interview Drops Some Fascinating Info Including Letter About ‘Sex With Men Fantasies’
Oh?
BuDuh (9a76cd) — 8/4/2023 @ 5:36 pmUh oh, one of the dumb nicknames I just listed (@60) must have triggered the moderation filter. I’ll guess it’s the one the left used ubiquitously for Bush 43. Since the mods are on secret mission (for values of “mission” that equal “yacht”), I won’t ask that the comment be retrieved. I’ll just try again with the likely suspect redacted and see how that goes.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/4/2023 @ 6:10 pmIf you believe that, then make that argument. Silly pejorative neologisms, whether it’s Desatan, MSDNC, tRump, Shrillary, or [Bush + Hitler], are just tribal signaling. All they do is announce that you have no interest in persuading anyone who doesn’t already agree with you.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/4/2023 @ 6:12 pmVictory!
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/4/2023 @ 6:13 pmInsurrection in NYC!!
Riots Erupt in NYC After Twitch Streamer Tells Millions of Followers to Meet at Union Square
There is no indication as to whether or not the Twitch Streamer ever said “peacefully.”
More:
Videos at the link.
BuDuh (9a76cd) — 8/4/2023 @ 6:19 pmThis is pretty much why nk spends the majority of my time here behind the blocking script.
BuDuh (9a76cd) — 8/4/2023 @ 6:20 pm“IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING AFTER YOU!”
–Donald J. Trump, 8/4/2023, one day after being instructed by the magistrate judge to not threaten witnesses
SC Smith has responded, appropriately so, because we all know that Trump is a bully who will bully others to get what he wants.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/4/2023 @ 7:46 pmHe can be placed in home confinement with direct access to the outside cut off. There’s a lot to like about that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:18 pmI find I’ve got no one on the blocking script these days.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:19 pmI try to give news that is outside the conservative bubble that you might not be getting.
There is no “conservative bubble” — the entire world seems dead set on echoing mainstream “thought.” IF that’s why you are here asset, you are wasting everyone’s time. Near as I can tell, everyone here knows more about everything that you do.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:22 pmYes, if that person advances your preferred policies.
Because if you cant get past that person, and withhold your support due to the person, then you just voted for the other party.
This again. It is Trump’s supporters who are putting Trump before policy. If Trump were to fall in a hole or something, we could talk about policy again.
The GOP has been hijacked since March of 2016. Maybe some of that hijacking was needed but the messenger just won’t shut up, as it has to be about HIM and not the actual message. Someday, after Trump is gone and the collaborators have been dealt with, the GOP can again focus on policy. But not until, and it’s NOT my choice.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:29 pmthen you just voted for the other party
Shorter: so long as Trump is in play, there is only one party, and a cult.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/4/2023 @ 10:30 pm@61 Desatan orders children to take off their protective masks for his political benefit. Arresting ex-felons who have served their time and voter approved reinstatement for political benefit. Harrasing gay teachers with don’t say gay bill and going after transsexuals again for political benefit. Trying to intimidate teachers while pushing racist history. I don’t live in floriduh I am sure those who do can ad many more doings to his evilness.
asset (27e4d4) — 8/5/2023 @ 12:51 am@68 No conservative bubble. Really? One day in Athens the sophists were arguing which one of them was the smartest and couldn’t decide. They decided to go to the oracle of delphi to them which one of them was the smartest. She told them it was socrates not them. They all laughed and said he goes around saying he doesn’t know anything! The orcle said that is why he is the smartest he knows he does not know and you think you do!
asset (27e4d4) — 8/5/2023 @ 1:01 amAs long as the trains run on time……..
Rip Murdock (b0912e) — 8/5/2023 @ 6:23 amBuDuh (9a76cd) — 8/4/2023 @ 6:19 pm
Rip Murdock (b0912e) — 8/5/2023 @ 7:56 amBecause if you cant get past that person, and withhold your support due to the person, then you just voted for the other party.
The people who support Trump cannot get past everyone besides Trump. They are the impasse.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/5/2023 @ 7:59 am@72 faced with facts and truth, you speak in riddles. Just like the oracle.
A true-blue Trump fan eventually has to leave Trump Social and leave his house. Whereupon he is inundated with the MSM and all its (from their viewpoint) lies. NO ONE is faced with Fox if they refuse to turn that channel on.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/5/2023 @ 8:03 amThat’s not necessarily true. For example, by not voting for Trump in California, you do not give your vote to the Democrats. The Democratic nominee has a mortal lock on California’s electoral votes given their registration advantage:
Rip Murdock (b0912e) — 8/5/2023 @ 8:24 amActually voting for a candidate says that you want “more like this.” Voting for a libertarian candidate says the same. The effect might be that the Democrat needs one less vote to win, but you could have accomplished that by staying home.
Voting LP, or for Santa Claus, might be a stupid and futile gesture, but it’s the only way to make certain gestures in the ballot booth.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/5/2023 @ 9:21 amElection Interference::
Rip Murdock (b0912e) — 8/5/2023 @ 9:59 amWait, what!?
Canada Minister unhappy that Facebook is following Canada’s new law.
Instead, Meta will do exactly what it said they would do: Go Galt.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/5/2023 @ 10:14 amIt’s pretty terrible when people announce the unintended consequences and you pass the stupid law anyway. COmplainging after the fact is just whiny. But that’s mostly what the “Minister for Canadian Culture” job implies.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/5/2023 @ 10:16 amElection Interference II:
Rip Murdock (b0912e) — 8/5/2023 @ 10:20 amCanada has no culture, eh?
Rip Murdock (b0912e) — 8/5/2023 @ 10:21 amMarshall faces up to five years in prison and a $250,000 fine.
Hunter Biden would have got probation and a “friend” would have paid the fine.
That’s not whaddaboutism, that’s straight up cynicism.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/5/2023 @ 10:47 amImagine if Trump advocated a Department of Culture, to clean up the swamp in Hollywood.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/5/2023 @ 10:49 amHBDS
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/5/2023 @ 12:49 pmLOL! Trump can propose anything he wants (and he has) but whether they constitutional (like your suggestion would not) is another question.
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/5/2023 @ 12:57 pmHBDS
MSMDS
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/5/2023 @ 1:11 pmEmerson College Michigan 2024 Primary Poll
Full results.
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/5/2023 @ 1:22 pmWelcome to the Big Leagues:
Presidential politics ain’t bean bag.
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/5/2023 @ 1:39 pmManhattan Institute Poll 8/3/23
Paragraph breaks added. Figure references removed. Toplines and cross tabs at link.
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/5/2023 @ 1:55 pmWest also has yet to pay a 2003 child support payment of $49,500.
…………
Presidential politics ain’t bean bag.
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/5/2023 @ 1:39 pm
I now see two signs of grifting in West. In addition to running his mouth (which includes loving the sound of his own voice), his finances are in arrears.
norcal (74a5a6) — 8/5/2023 @ 2:05 pm@90
Too funny. It would be funnier still if we found out how much in arrears Congessfolk are.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/5/2023 @ 3:38 pmWouldn’t they also have to show that the leaked info in question was being presented as fact? If it was “here’s this info we got, some of it’s concerning and we think you should look into it but we can’t promise it’s true.” That would be a different thing.
Sorry I didn’t back to this earlier.
I agree with all you’ve said. They have the same problem with proving the knowing falsehood, and I’m sure that anyone trained in the law would cover their backside when presenting obvious lies as “concerning.”
There would also be the issue of what the recipient believed. They too might be subject to the fraud stature (as interpreted in the Trump case) if they forwarded it on as “intelligence” when they knew (or had reason to believe) it was a pile of lies.
In the end though, this is a widening of the law, as far as historical use is concerned. At some point it becomes muddy. Are we there yet?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/5/2023 @ 4:29 pmGo on crackpot networks, get crackpot questions.
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/5/2023 @ 5:01 pm@78 your right ;but wrong party analogy. Trump voters don’t care and traditional conservative voters pretty much vote economic libertarian policies anyway. Unless you mean dope issue. Every morning hillary clinton wakes up yelling damn you jill stein (green party) When I told the bernie bros in 2016 You lost this is my party! I run the party. How dare you tell me and the DNC that you will vote for jill stein instead of me!
In 2020 joe biden said I got the nomination ;but I need your votes in az, ga, mich, pa. and wi. so when you AOC and the squad say jump I will ask how high?
asset (e51380) — 8/5/2023 @ 5:05 pmIn his responses to the 9/11 and moon landing questions, VR concedes he doesn’t have the evidence for either claim, yet assumes one is false (that the government has told the truth about 9/11) and the other is true (that man has landed on the moon.)
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/5/2023 @ 5:08 pm92, Allen, Kanye, Cornel….who’s the Fourth Horseman?
urbanleftbehind (7da2d2) — 8/5/2023 @ 5:31 pmRFK, Jr.-I’ll bet he runs as an independent backed by the Trump MAGA right. . Steve Bannon and Alex Jones are fans.
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/5/2023 @ 5:53 pmAlso, Trump called RFK Jr. a “very smart person.” That endorsement may not get him far in the Dem primaries, but it promises a bright future as dictator of a nuclear-armed enemy of the United States.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/5/2023 @ 6:49 pmAnd in more news from the tip of the horseshoe, RFK Jr.’s biggest donor is a Trump supporter.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/5/2023 @ 6:51 pmAllen, Kanye, Cornel….who’s the Fourth Horseman?
urbanleftbehind (7da2d2) — 8/5/2023 @ 5:31 pm
Jerry?
norcal (e0cbb0) — 8/5/2023 @ 6:53 pmAs I’ve said before, Trump and RFK, Jr. have much in common-both are conspiracy theorists and wannabe authoritarians. They would be a perfect bipartisan ticket. Even Steven Bannon agrees, though I disagree with his prediction.
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/5/2023 @ 7:23 pmComedy Gold!
More laughter:
DeSantis needs to focus on why his polling numbers have fallen from 40% in January 2023 to 14% now, not rising to Newsom’s bait. Too late now.
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/5/2023 @ 8:20 pmDeSantis polling January- August 1, 2023. His polling is the big line going down, down, down.
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/5/2023 @ 8:34 pm(Vivek) Ramaswamy: I ‘don’t believe’ the 9/11 Commission report
Yeah, this is case in point why the Presidency is NOT an entry-level position. Show us you are sane and normal in some lesser government office, preferably an executive position. I suppose the process is exposing his weirdness…but I’m losing faith in the primary process excluding dubiously-qualified individuals. It almost seems designed to elevate them in our drama-craving society. Weird and narcissistic is no longer disqualifying.
AJ_Liberty (3e6148) — 8/5/2023 @ 9:05 pmI’m losing faith in the primary process excluding dubiously-qualified individuals.
AJ_Liberty (3e6148) — 8/5/2023 @ 9:05 pm
There is no process that will cure dumb voters.
norcal (9cc43c) — 8/5/2023 @ 9:18 pmMore cowbell?
AJ_Liberty (3e6148) — 8/5/2023 @ 9:33 pmRamaswamy has proposed changes to the Constitution reminiscent of Robert Heinlein’s Starship Troopers:
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/5/2023 @ 9:42 pmThere is no process that will cure dumb voters.
It’s not that they can’t be cured — stupid people die earlier. It’s Barnum’s 1st Law that’s the problem. Every minute.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/5/2023 @ 10:09 pmOregon allows self-serve gasoline.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/06/us/oregon-drivers-pump-own-fuel-law/index.html
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/5/2023 @ 10:46 pmBut of course, they do so in a typical statist fashion:
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/5/2023 @ 10:49 pmSomebody agrees with you.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/5/2023 @ 11:08 pmSomebody agrees with you.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/5/2023 @ 11:08 pm
Thanks, lurker. I’m not on Twitter. (Besides, I thought Patterico quit it. Guess he relapsed.)
norcal (9cc43c) — 8/5/2023 @ 11:16 pmYes he did and yes he did, the latter for which I’m grateful.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/5/2023 @ 11:35 pmHere’s one with Casey’s husband promising to “end the weaponization of government”.
LOL!
nk (c05da1) — 8/6/2023 @ 5:33 amAll right, voters may be dumb. and Republican primary voters the dumbest, but DeSantis is really … no, no, wait, wait I got it: DeSantis is going for voters who never heard heard of him!
nk (c05da1) — 8/6/2023 @ 5:45 amJudge Chutkan rejected Trump’s effort to delay tomorrow’s hearing (caused by Trump’s “If you’re going after me, I’m coming after you!” public comment), and I think Jack Smith’s argument was persuasive.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/6/2023 @ 6:38 am“There is no process that will cure dumb voters.”
Cure? Probably not. But is there a way to lessen their effects? Say, reduce the number of bad options. We hear some about rank choice voting or even returning to the smoke-filled rooms and allowing party leaders to at least winnow down the field to serious vetted candidates who have some minimalist credentials.
I reject the notion that the chaos of 2016 was unavoidable and unpreventable…and in any way desirable. I also operate under the assumption that any simple solution is likely a wrong solution. Party leaders, however one wants to define them, should be allowed to structure their party’s nominating process to lessen the draw of populist demagogues and interlopers. We need less raw passion and more wisdom in the process. Certainly there was not a lot of wisdom at play in winnowing the field of 20-something down in 2016. Ultimately picking someone with no political experience, little depth of understanding of issues, and serious character questions shows a lot more emotionalism than test-of-time discernment.
A field of 4 to 7 candidates is likely more than enough to span philosophical, ideological, end experiential differences (we’ll leave ethnic and other diversity differences to the Democrats) while giving voters some choice in personality and message. What’s a party for if not some minimal filtering? Someone like Ramaswamy is simply untested and unvetted.
Now would this unnaturally deter bold mavericks and individuals desperately trying to change the direction of a foundering party? I’m not so sure. It does press those individuals to establish credibility by being a governor or at minimum getting elected to some statewide position. I hate to think that Twitter propagandist is sufficient status to highjack a party….
AJ_Liberty (3e6148) — 8/6/2023 @ 6:44 amEmbrace the Chaos:
If McCarthy folds and relies on Democrats to pass a stopgap budget measure (after promising not to do so), or if in the end supports a continuing resolution for the new FY, (again, after promising only to pass regular appropriation bills), he will certainly face a motion to vacate, which under House rules requires only one member to submit.
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/6/2023 @ 6:45 amMr. Former President Donald Trump, who could have been the girl next door but the gametes were rigged and stolen, is pretty secure in the unlikelihood that he will ever go to prison.
All it’s costing him is money.
And it’s all free money from other people.
nk (c05da1) — 8/6/2023 @ 6:50 amHere is a good analysis of deliberate weakening of political parties and what might be done to strengthen them.
But it won’t happen because it would weaken too many outside interests.
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/6/2023 @ 6:55 amAnother good entry from Volokh Conspiracy, this one quoting Walter Olson and Lawfare at length about the four counts against Trump.
Also, Jack E. Smith has a Twitter account. It’s a good thing.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/6/2023 @ 7:41 am@123, yeah NR’s “rushed” defense is being expertly deconstructed. A conclusion that all types of fraud required a financial element seemed wrong from the get go. Glad to see VC is in the game.
AJ_Liberty (3e6148) — 8/6/2023 @ 8:37 amI don’t know how “prominent” Richard Hanania is, but he’s been praised by right-wingers like Tucker Carlson and Peter Thiel. Now it turns out that he hid his racism under pseudonym, supporting eugenics, antisemitism and such.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/6/2023 @ 8:56 amUkrainians finally replaced the hammer-and-sickle on their Motherland statue with a Ukrainian coat-of-arms.
In Odesa, instead of taking down and destroying the Lenin statue, they modified it. After all, Lenin killed four to eight million souls under one Soviet rule and the career of one American journalist.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/6/2023 @ 9:06 amRepublican primary voters the dumbest
Here I disagree. The Trumpists may be stubborn in following this dolt since other candidates have taken up the cause, but there are a sizable number of young Socialists in the Democrat primaries and you have to be really really stupid to be Socialist at the start of your tax-paying years.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 9:37 amI reject the notion that the chaos of 2016 was unavoidable and unpreventable…and in any way desirable.
A party that prevents correction when it is on the wrong track is a part that is doomed to destruction. Populism, like forest fires, is a necessary part of a healthy system.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 9:41 amDarling Nikki still straddling.
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/6/2023 @ 10:03 amFair points Catoggio, but I’d rather see the Trump trials, and other federal trials, televised.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/6/2023 @ 10:08 amThe Reason for the DeSantis Decline?
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/6/2023 @ 10:49 amDarling Nikki still straddling.
In saying that we have to take care of business and not dwell in recrimination and blame, she’s spot on. Democrats, of course, want the GOP to spend all its time on infighting. And apparently some Republicans.
I doubt that anyone in the GOP is unaware of the damage that Trump has done, and continues to do. Some are still in favor, but that number is decreasing and will be marginalized in time. He will not be the nominee.
The object of her campaign (and several others) is to wean GOP voters off the Trump teat. You can’t do that by attacking them and their values — it may be pleasing to the spectators, but it’s useless to the party. Instead you have to offer them another way forward.
Whether Haley is doing that is another matter. DeSantis tried to be “Trump with Brains” but he failed at both aspects. Maybe the kinder, gentler approach will work, maybe not.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 11:02 am@131
Then who? There’s not a lot of Libertarian in the current lot of nominees. We could really use a man like Ronald Reagan again. Those were the days.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 11:06 amFair points Catoggio, but I’d rather see the Trump trials, and other federal trials, televised.
Given that Trump’s followers distrust the media, restricting their access to MSM filtered information will not work well. Instead you will have massive misinformation, conspiracy and disaffection running rampant. Only an unfiltered view into the proceedings has even the slightest hope of eventual acceptance.
The 6th Amendment says that trials must be public. In a nation of 350 million, with near-universal access to video information, does a courtroom with 100 seats actually satisfy that requirement? Restricting public access to 18th century possibilities seems inconsistent with modern constitutional doctrine.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 11:13 amAnd that is working out so well. Wishing that Trump will just “go away” hasn’t happened yet and is unlikely won’t work in the future when so many of the candidates make excuses for him. Darling Nikki and others who say “if it’s true then it’s bad” but then decry the “weaponization” of the FBI/DOJ (or express a lack of trust) or promise to consider a pardon are still trying to have it both ways.
Most of the Republican field have implicitly backed Trump, which hasn’t benefited them in polling; it only allows them to avoid being attacked by Trump.
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/6/2023 @ 11:25 amDarling Nikki
This remains more than a little bit sexist.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 11:28 amThe Republican field is pretty much set. Reagan’s politics are dead. There is no point living in the past. You play with the cards you are dealt.
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/6/2023 @ 11:31 amHow woke. 😉
Rip Murdock (af637b) — 8/6/2023 @ 11:33 am“Populism, like forest fires, is a necessary part of a healthy system.”
Populism doesn’t correct anything. A lot of the times it’s a temper tantrum. It’s surrendering the car keys to the 8yr-old and hoping for a happy ending. Populism is less about policy….there can be populists on the left or the right…than about style and rhetoric. Populism generally fails because:
1. National problems are complex and populists generally posit simplistic solutions that appeal to people’s emotions.
2. Populism channels rage which leads to existential thinking which forecloses compromise. Rage tends to work against rational thinking and leads people to be trapped in #1.
3. Populism requires messianic leadership where the rhetoric focuses instead of on ideas but on the greatness of that leader. No one but that leader understands the problem and can realize the solution. It enables a cult of personality. The 2020 GOP didn’t even bother with a platform…whatever Trump wanted is fine.
4. Populism always needs convenient scapegoats including elites, foreigners, and the rich. There’s always a claim that someone is getting something over on the average Joe (no, not that Joe). It’s never bad choices or bad luck. It leads to conspiracy thinking and avoiding hard realities.
5. Populism tries to give people what they want versus what the nation needs. Right now, a lot of Republicans want their representatives to engage in a lot of accusations about election fraud. What the nation needs is for Republicans to honestly discuss the issue and instill confidence in the electoral system. This reinforcing of populist fear, anger, and mistrust makes the political system toxic and fosters unrest and the potential for insurrection, as leaders lie without account.
6. Populism sets up us vs them, which again is anathema to the compromise intentionally built into our democratic system. It’s MAGA versus those that ostensibly want to make America worse. A majority of voters likely did not want Muslims banned from the country but we’re sold that this is what “the people” want. Populism sticks us with assertions that may in fact not be that popular…but if it’s sold as anti-elite or against the establishment, then it assumes a tribal mantle.
The GOP could very well have been ideologically mired in the 2000’s. An unpopular war, a housing collapse, the stress of globalization, and the rise of an enigmatic liberal President. Social media intensified every bias and prejudice we had and weaponized it. We were suddenly in everyone else’s business 24/7. I adamantly believe this was no reason to try and burn everything down with Trump. That’s the 5yr-old throwing the tantrum in the middle of the grocery store candy aisle. That’s no controlled burn….
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/6/2023 @ 12:09 pmTwitter still has an URL that starts twitter.com and the postings are still called tweet, but there’s a big X on the screen.,
Elon Musk was a founder of X.com years ago, which was a predecessor of PayPal
In fact, for many years, typing X+Ctrl-Enter was a shortcut to PayPal
Sammy Finkelman (598e7c) — 8/6/2023 @ 12:37 pm“Most of the Republican field have implicitly backed Trump, which hasn’t benefited them in polling; it only allows them to avoid being attacked by Trump.”
I give it to mid October. At least one more indictment, a debate, trial momentum gaining, and reality crashing down. You might be right that the die has been cast and the party is diving headlong into the nomination abyss. But if that’s true, does it really matter that much what Nikki says? I don’t see Christie, Hutchinson, or Hurd breaking out of the low single digits by unambiguously attacking Trump. I sense Haley and Scott…and maybe DeSantis…are shrewd enough to see their internal data and reasonable know what isn’t going to work. It’s ghastly, but maybe the call is to put it in Jack Smith’s and Judge Chutkan’s hands and hope for the best. I want candidates to lead and tell the truth, but the electorate is who the electorate is….
There is no magic op ed or blog comment that will solve a GOP cult problem if that ends up being the reality.
So rather than give into despair, I rather have some hope and simultaneously prepare for disappointment. Trump/Biden 2 will be awful on many levels, but life itself marches on. I’ve long ago accepted that you can’t always get what you want, but you get what you need. Oh yeah….
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/6/2023 @ 12:40 pmThe political system gets what it deserves?
Sammy Finkelman (598e7c) — 8/6/2023 @ 1:01 pmHow woke.
Perhaps, but “misogynistic” is worse.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 1:07 pmFrom the Week, Aug. 11, page 8: The son of the president of Columbia has ben indicted by Columbian prosecutors for taking money from drug dealers
At least some ($150,000) was taken from a politician who had been convicted in Washington of drug dealing.. It was intended for his father’s 2022 presidential campaign, but his ex-wife says, he pocketed it..
His father, President Gustavo Petro, says of his son Nicolas Petro, “I hope he can reflect on his mistakes.” (A translation, I suppose)
His ex-wife has also been arrested and charged with money laundering but both she and him deny it
Sammy Finkelman (598e7c) — 8/6/2023 @ 1:11 pmAJ,
It will take a preference cascade, just like the 2016 nomination did. Once people realize that their friends are backing away from Trump, it will be a quick move to the exits.
Or it will never happen. One or the other.
Who benefits? Those that were resolutely anti-Trump (Christie, Hutchinson) or those that straddled? Hard to say, but the mini-Trumps will be lost in the wreckage.
Or all of them, though, I think that Christie would make the better president.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 1:12 pmI want candidates to lead and tell the truth, but the electorate is who the electorate is….
The electorate has the bit between its teeth and is not wanting leaders so much as advocates.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 1:15 pmComedy Gold!
Trump should be prepared to be disappointed. Just being a judge appointed by the opposing party aren’t grounds for recusal. She was confirmed on a 95-0 vote, including by such radicals as John Cronyn and Lindsey Graham.
Rip Murdock (b83512) — 8/6/2023 @ 2:09 pmI’m generally watching America. It’s sometimes disappointing, but rarely boring.
😛
Nic (896fdf) — 8/6/2023 @ 2:27 pmABC News/Ipsos Poll 8/4/23
Rip Murdock (b83512) — 8/6/2023 @ 2:31 pmAJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/6/2023 @ 12:09 pm
That is a magnificent critique of populism.
AJ, I suspect you are a professional political writer who likes to dabble anonymously on a small blog. Prove it isn’t so!
Anyway, we are lucky to have you.
norcal (468005) — 8/6/2023 @ 3:04 pmDeSantis is not going to get the top Republican political campaign guns. Nobody who is running against Trump is. They’re too afraid of stepping on the toes of the Trump political establishment. And he is right not to trust the second-stringers he can get. Not their competence and not their loyalty.
But that’s not really his problem. His problem is that he is a small and nasty person and the more he shows himself the more it shows.
nk (bb1548) — 8/6/2023 @ 4:24 pmI don’t think it has much to do with “offending” Trump. Why should top campaign talent work for someone who is a control freak and doesn’t listen to anyone except his wife?
Rip Murdock (b83512) — 8/6/2023 @ 4:42 pmThey won’t be offending only Trump. They will also be offending all of Trump’s remoras who are their bread and butter.
Matt Bevin had the same problem when he challenged Mitch McConnell in the 2014 Kentucky primary. He became persona non grata with the GOP establishment campaign consultants.
nk (bb1548) — 8/6/2023 @ 4:58 pmVoter for voter, dumb Democrat voters may or may not be as dumb as dumb Republican voters, but as a group there’s no contest. The Republicans nominated Trump twice, and now that he’s under multiple indictments they seem determined to do it again. Until Democrats actually nominate a comparably fringe candidate, GOP primary voters as a group are manifestly dumber.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/6/2023 @ 5:20 pmPopulism doesn’t correct anything. A lot of the times it’s a temper tantrum. It’s surrendering the car keys to the 8yr-old and hoping for a happy ending. Populism is less about policy….there can be populists on the left or the right…than about style and rhetoric. Populism generally fails because:
The elites stick their fingers in their ears and pretend they cannot hear that they FUC*ED UP and that they need to change their approach.
It is the not the reaction of willful children, but of . Hitting them again and telling them to STFU is eventually not going to work.
A populist revolt does not come out of thin air. Populism is what happens in a democratic system when a sizable portion of the population is up against the wall. It’s not a “tantrum” by willful children (my God, could you not find something more elitist and authoritarian to say?), but an frustrated lashing out by repeatedly abused children.
It is people who would rather do ANYTHING else than politics who find that their very existence requires it. It takes an amazing amount of bad governance and sh1tty ends of sticks to get them to that point. Usually, some portion of the political class notices soon enough and finds away to focus the anger.
Ronald Reagan was a populist president. He just wasn’t a buffoon and he had an agenda of “simplistic solutions” (e.g. open markets, low taxes, strong defense). He was able to lead the mob rather than just scamper in front of it like Trump.
The problem this time was that the “responsible” leaders that AJ seems to favor tried to suppress the rising anger, and failed to deal with the complaints. Instead they sent the IRS after the mob — in a “spare the rod, spoil the child” kind of way — and did everything possible to prevent populist politicians from getting near power.
And so they found Trump. The longer it takes, the blunter the instrument…
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 6:02 pm* It is the not the reaction of willful children, but of abused children. Hitting them again and telling them to STFU is eventually not going to work.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 6:03 pmI so miss the preview
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 6:04 pmUntil Democrats actually nominate a comparably fringe candidate
Well, McGovern was pretty terrible. One of his campaign issues was opposing “alphabetism.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 6:08 pmOn Megan Rapinoe.
Her legacy should be tarnished. Her last acts were those of a 16th place loser. Like it or not, your last few games matter. What really matters is how the leadership role ended with a thud. Rapinoe’s skills had clearly eroded over the last 4 years, so her primary role was leadership… she failed that abysmally
steveg (3e08eb) — 8/6/2023 @ 6:13 pm“AJ, I suspect you are a professional political writer who likes to dabble anonymously on a small blog. Prove it isn’t so!”
norcal you’re way too kind…I’m a dabbler….I think it helps me process the awfulness that is our politics these days.
I do want to recall an interesting story from my days haunting Volokh Conspiracy. There was a period during the Obamacare NFIB case days where interaction was particularly engaging. Lots of theories were being debated but there was an unusual amount of good faith. A lot of lawyers and at least one judge were participating. Trolls were at bay.
Fascinating because you would learn a lot….just digging into the opinions and supporting briefs and processing the commentariat’s arguments… and it really did help me see both sides much better. But the judge was anonymous except that she said enough about herself that I actually figured out who she was. Obviously I did not reveal it because she was a great commenter and decent individual, though we disagreed but cordially (I probably did needle her about being an amateur singer…and doing an impressive Cass Elliot). But it’s one of those things where you never know who is out there.
Maybe one of these days Patterico will have a get together. I think VC did this though I’m not sure if they have done it recently. It has the potential of being quite amusing….
AJ_Liberty (0151de) — 8/6/2023 @ 6:27 pm1972 Democrats were dumber than 1972 Republicans. What does that have to do with 2023?
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/6/2023 @ 6:36 pmIn detail, AJ:
They posit simplistic solutions because the people are fed up with navel-gazing politicians who cannot get past the smallest nuance. Yes, solving a problem completely is hard, but solving it mostly is often not. Take the homeless problem. Please.
Populism is never the first reaction to governmental inaction, but the very frustrated last reaction to inertia, often an inertia that serves the governing class.
The rage is already there. It comes from a “long train of abuses” that do not seem to have an end. Rage may well work against rationality, but “rationality” hasn’t been working up to that point anyway. You cannot discuss this in a vacuum; it takes incredibly poor leadership to get to this point.
This is patently false. It CAN lead to that, but in our history it generally doesn’t. Jackson, Lincoln, TR, FDR and Reagan all led popular “revolutions.” It was Donald Trump this time because no one else stepped up. That’s actual greatness 4-2. Note that Jackson and Trump didn’t solve much, but the others did. A cult of personality is merely a pretense of greatness.
Again, it CAN include that, but Lincoln, TR, FDR and Reagan did not resort to that. This is mostly pejorative on your part, not argument.
The election fraud claim was never part of the movement that elected Trump. It is an outgrowth of the full-court-press that the Establishment threw up to block Trump once elected. The peaceful transition of power was already badly damaged before we got to 2020 by those in the nomenklatura who used their petty powers for their petty partisan purposes.
Most of the election BS rests on Trump himself, as does the actual reasons for his loss. Without his lead, we would not be talking about it now. Some rests on the Internet, but that’s another subject. But even that does not attach to “Populism” but to the lack of an actual leader.
That ship had sailed somewhere in the 90’s. Maybe before. Populism does not “set up” Us vs Them, it is a reaction to a long period of Us vs Them, where the Thems finally have had enough.
There had been at least a decade for discussion. Obama could have sat down with the still-responsible leadership of the Teas, or even Paul Ryan, and found common ground. But he preferred to send the IRS and rely on raw majorities in Congress.
No, it was a reason to compromise and reason together. But that was not attempted. The Tea Party was crushed or ignored, the 2012 contest resulted in Mr Corporate Globalist (who lost to Mr Liberal Corporate Globalist), and the 2016 candidates were deaf as posts, actually arguing for how we needed more H1B visas.
And so, Trump.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 6:49 pmThat’s not completely fair to Jackson. For all his faults he opened the franchise to nearly all white men, which was a terrific accomplishment at the time. But he broke the Democrat Party in two and left the country unable to deal with slavery (or much else) as factions prevailed.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 6:53 pm1972 Democrats were dumber than 1972 Republicans. What does that have to do with 2023?
McGovern was just as irresponsible a populist as Trump. His support is now Bernie’s or AOC’s, but it is still there in the wings.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 7:03 pmI recall those days fondly too. As Orin explained recently, attracting and keeping that level of engagement was labor intensive and artisanal. It was doomed the second moderation was passed over to the Washington Post.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/6/2023 @ 7:36 pmAs for Trump himself, well, this is more meltdown than I ever expected.
He may go to jail on Monday. I hope they film that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 8:07 pmNo. He wasn’t. Terrible policies aren’t nearly equal to bulldozing the pillars of democracy. Without free elections and the rule of law, we’re bereft of guiding principles. Any policy that happens to be useful is an accident of despotic whims.
And this ignores the argument of my previous comment. Obviously the Democrats have extremists, among both their aspiring leaders and their electorate. But even if one concedes that Bernie or AOC is as loathsome and dangerous as Trump, which I adamantly do not, unlike the GOP the Dems have managed not to nominate one of their extremists for over fifty years. See me when they do and we’ll talk about whether they sunk as low as Trump.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/6/2023 @ 8:11 pmTerrible policies aren’t nearly equal to bulldozing the pillars of democracy.
Which Trump did not do until near the end. If you insist on coloring the movement that brought Trump to the fore with Trump’s actions 5 years later, I’ll just have to start ignoring you because you’re acting like an irrational person.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 8:18 pmNo. He wasn’t.
McGovern pandered to every crowd, from people with last names late in the alphabet to people who wanted free stuff (“$1000 for everyone!”) from the government. There was no real difference between him and Bernie in 2016, except maybe Bernie was wiser.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 8:20 pmIs it possible for people to oppose Trump, the man, while not wanting to cast all his supporters into the outer darkness? It seems it is not. Because until it is, the country will never recover.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/6/2023 @ 8:22 pmI have yet to see any reason to believe that this blog has any less adept dabblers. Everyone deserves some credit, IMO. 👍
BuDuh (528662) — 8/6/2023 @ 8:23 pmKevin, I’ll try and read, digest, and respond to your comments later. I’m trying to wind it down here…
AJ_Liberty (0151de) — 8/6/2023 @ 8:37 pmLOL! What court order did he violate? The DOJ’s protective order is not yet in effect.
Rip Murdock (b83512) — 8/6/2023 @ 8:37 pmSource?
Rip Murdock (b83512) — 8/6/2023 @ 8:42 pmMeet the press (NBC) had some interesting statistics on covid deaths killing off republican voters. More republicans died then democrats and the 3 states az, ga. and wi. were highlighted. More republicans died in those three states the biden/trump margin. Republican deaths along with abortion ruling stopped red wave in 2022.
asset (a2078d) — 8/6/2023 @ 9:56 pmYeah. Only problem is, “No he wasn’t” was my reply to:
You equated McGovern with Trump, not Bernie. That’s what I responded to before you moved the goalpost.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/6/2023 @ 10:00 pmThere was some evidence of Trump’s contempt for the rule of law in 2016, and oodles of it by 2020, but that’s beside the point. I’m talking about the GOP electorate that prefers Trump by 30 points right now. Surely you don’t think voters in 2023 are unaware of what he did in 2021 and before? But if you want to keep changing the subject, then claim I’m the one being irrational, I can’t stop you.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/6/2023 @ 10:02 pmSource?
It went so far that the Convention called the states in a random order to avoid alphabetic bias.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 12:24 amYou equated McGovern with Trump, not Bernie. That’s what I responded to before you moved the goalpost.
Sorry, I view them all as interchangeable clowns. If anything, Trump was better as he wasn’t a socialist. Neither of the other two had a chance to stage a coup though, so that’s a point against Trump. Bernie liked Castro and honeymooned in Brezhnev’s Russia, so he wasn’t all that adverse to dictators.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 12:27 amI’m talking about the GOP electorate that prefers Trump by 30 points right now.
It has been made Us vs Them, and they are manning barricades. Tell me, did globalization help or hurt you personally?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 12:29 amIf joe biden is othello does that make gavin newsom Iago?
asset (a2078d) — 8/7/2023 @ 1:27 amMcGovern flew five bombing missions as co-pilot and 30 missions as pilot and earned the Distinguished Flying Cross in the European Theater during WWII. I would stop any comparisons to Cadet Bone Spurs right there.
If I had any inclination to compare a “by his bootstraps” Greatest Generation South Dakotan two-term Congressman and three-term Senator to a “silver spoon in his mouth” Boomer Fifth Avenue fancy boy in the first place.
nk (26a6c5) — 8/7/2023 @ 3:16 amI’m not sure where to start with Kevin’s analysis. On one hand he seems to applaud Trump’s use of populist rhetoric to secure power, but on the other hand recognizes that Trump has neither the skills nor the character to actually get anything done. Kevin’s previous comments would celebrate Trump’s death, believes he committed treason, and wants him to rot to prison. In some way maybe these two Kevins should debate and let me know how it turns out.
More seriously, Kevin echoes many of the complaints launched by factory working orphan. The establishment/elites started an ill-conceived Iraq war; they allowed massive investment fraud that created a housing collapse and an unconscionable bail out of the bankers; they enabled China and other countries to displace our manufacturing and negotiated trade deals that sacrificed blue collar jobs; they allowed progressives to highjack our cultural institutions and create the fear of being canceled for traditional views; and they sat impotently as illegal immigrants crashed our borders and overwhelmed our schools, social services, and unskilled labor markets.
It’s quite the indictment. Much of it is true, though the story is a bit more nuanced. OK, a lot more nuanced. For instance, we simply don’t know what would have happened if the banks were allowed to fail in 2007. It could have led to a global recession with the middle and lower economic classes suffering even greater. The same goes for leaving Saddam in power. The war was unquestionably mismanaged and the power vacuum under appreciated, but the regime was evil and destabilizing and it’s difficult to mourn Saddam’s exit from the world stage while still hating the cost. The rise of China as an economic power wasn’t simply because U.S. elites chose it and there’s a whole moral question of keeping Chinese people in abject poverty. Gay marriage was in fact a massive cultural change that now enjoys super-majority of support. The market is open to conservatives making music, films, and news programs championing their point of view. Some of the victimology is overwrought. Unskilled immigrant labor is vital to agricultural markets — U.S. citizens just don’t want to do it. Globalization killed some U.S. markets but also created new opportunities. There is no massive unemployment in this country. It’s still the place immigrants want to come to and where investment income flows into. This isn’t some dystopian country where people can’t earn a living and live comfortably. There is no economic fairy wand that will make everyone upper middle class (and mathematicians’ heads explode) so that no one lives paycheck to paycheck. Libertarians used to understand this.
This was always the frustration with populists like FWO. They have grievances…many understandable… but the solutions were always kind of sketchy. He frequently wanted a return to 1950 and was angry that politicians couldn’t make that happen, despite the time/space continuum. Populists often draw the false conclusion that political paralysis means politicians are just not fighting hard enough, not that our system is designed for compromise not steamrolling. As we now see, they want Republicans to assume some of the worst habits and practices of the Left.
OK, this is starting to go on forever. I would however be remiss to note that Reagan was a conservative and did not adopt the rhetoric of populism, though academics will have entire conferences debating what the term even means. I would also argue that his solutions were not simplistic. Dramatically changing the tax system to exchange low rates for fewer tax write-offs only seems simplistic now. The same with bankrupting the Soviet Union. A wall is simplistic; banning Muslims is simplistic; starting trade wars and not expecting retaliation is simplistic; cozying up to white nationalist cultural rhetoric is simplistic. Some things are not even populist but just wrong. Trump wants to break institutions that are in his way. Just like populist dictators in Central America. The populist impulse is not conservative. I stick by my previous observations.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/7/2023 @ 6:46 amAs a person, Mar-a-Loser does not even amount to a drop of cow pee in the American milk bucket. Certainly not enough to throw out the whole bucket. Barely a trickle on the barn floor that you don’t want around to stink up the place or accidentally track into the house.
As for the person vs. policy question, I consider it a variant of “What’s in it for me?” and the answer has already been given by a dead President: Ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country.
nk (26a6c5) — 8/7/2023 @ 8:11 amHear, hear!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 8:39 amDoing The Full Ginsburg:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 9:04 am@75
I’ll only support Trump if he’s the nominee.
Prior to the nomination, I’m NeverTrump.
But my point is, you’re going to be offered two choices for President. It’s going to be either a Democrat President or Republican President.
You refuse to with hold support for one, you’ve effectively gave the other candidate a “boost”.
Hence why I ended my post with “We deserve the politicians we get”, because with holding your vote is not a ‘cost-free’ act.
whembly (5f7596) — 8/7/2023 @ 9:15 amOn Megan Rapinoe.
Her legacy should be tarnished. Her last acts were those of a 16th place loser. Like it or not, your last few games matter. What really matters is how the leadership role ended with a thud. Rapinoe’s skills had clearly eroded over the last 4 years, so her primary role was leadership… she failed that abysmally.
Absolutely agree with this. Of course we’re now starting to see the 10,000 think-pieces in the dominant media narrative which insists that it is entirely unpatriotic to criticize Megan Rapinoe and her teammates for their lackluster showing; that it’s a sign of how sexist our society has become since no U.S. men’s team would be held to these standards; and that us nasty right-wingers were likely cheering for the U.S. team to lose.
For the record, if these women are to be held in the same esteem and compensated to the same degree that male sports stars are, then it is entirely acceptable to ask pointed questions about the deterioration of the team culture and how that affected on-field performance. It’s also ridiculous to pretend that there is sexism in the criticism that the USWNT is receiving. I distinctly recall the degree to which the U.S. Men’s Olympic Basketball Team, chock-full of NBA superstars, was raked over the coals when they returned from the 2004 Athens Olympics with only a bronze medal, so it’s not as though a dominant men’s team is ever given a pass in that regard. And, for the record, I wanted to see the USWNT win this year’s World Cup, but I didn’t want to see them play disjointed soccer yet somehow muddle their way through to the title based upon talent, reputation, and luck.
But, just to be a jerk about this, I’m going to rehash what I wrote four years ago when, fresh off of a World Cup championship, the USWNT demanded that their collective bargaining agreement be reopened and their compensation immediately adjusted upwards:
So is it now time for the ladies to take a pay cut? Of course not, but it’s always fun pointing out how truly insipid is the ideology of Kamala Harris and Megan Rapinoe.
JVW (1ad43e) — 8/7/2023 @ 9:16 amUh-huh.
nk (26a6c5) — 8/7/2023 @ 9:22 amCBS News/YouGov Poll 8/6/23
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 9:22 am@163
Nominating/Electing Trump was being nice.
At the fundamentals, this is about electing politicians sensitive to their constituents. If the old guards refused to adapt, I’m worried what politicians voters would be willing to elect when NOT being nice.
whembly (5f7596) — 8/7/2023 @ 9:23 amPoor Mr. Former President Donald Trump, whose Burma Shave was such a boom they passed the bride and kissed the groom, has bigger problems than what Mike Pence says.
At his arraignment, he told the judge that he was seventy-seven years old.
When all the time he had Melania believing that he was, by now, ninety-seven.
That’s why he looked like a scared puppy.
nk (26a6c5) — 8/7/2023 @ 9:41 amIf any one should take a pay cut it should be the men. They are wildly overcompensated based on their performance.
The US men’s World Cup team is nothing to brag about. Their best performance in a World Cup tournament came in 1930 when the team reached the semi-finals. In the past five tournaments they have made it to the quarter finals only once (2002). They didn’t even qualify for the 2018 WC. And the only reason they have qualified for the 2026 tournament is that the US is a co-host.
In contrast, the women’s team (until 2023) has placed no lower than third (2007), runners-up in 2011, and champions in 2015 and 2019.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 9:41 amAcknowledging Reality (But Losing Trump’s Base):
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 9:50 amAcknowledging Reality (But Losing Trump’s Base):
Going where the ducks are. Trump already has all the loons in the bag.
nk (26a6c5) — 8/7/2023 @ 9:53 am@194
It isn’t about team performance.
Men’s Soccer brings in way more money via sponserships and network contracts.
whembly (5f7596) — 8/7/2023 @ 9:54 amToo bad that 70% of Republicans polled agree with the loons.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 10:06 amThat’s obvious.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 10:10 amIf any one should take a pay cut it should be the men. They are wildly overcompensated based on their performance.
Do you live in a world where people are compensated based upon their performance or are they compensated upon what they can get from the market? We’ve gone over this time and time again, Rip: the men’s tournament receives about a hundred times the revenue that the women’s tournament does, and thus the men have a larger pool of money to distribute. Is that fair? I don’t know. Is it fair that the Wall Street banker makes many, many times what the Main Street banker makes? Is it fair that the mechanic on a Ferrari makes a whole lot more than the mechanic on a Ford Fiesta? Is it fair that the chef at the five-star restaurant makes more than the chef at Applebee’s or Denny’s?
JVW (1ad43e) — 8/7/2023 @ 10:15 amMegan Rapinoe choked, sailing the ball over the goal, another did the same, and another doinked it. Three shots were attempted without even a chance of going in.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/7/2023 @ 10:15 amLeaving aside all the off-field stuff, the USA team that showed up for the World Cup underperformed throughout and gacked when it counted. Sweden was the underdog, and they deserved to win.
Personally, I think the USA team needs to clean house after this pathetic performance.
Trump Civil Litigation Watch:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 10:21 amAnd we’re gonna keep on going over it. You have your opinion, I have mine.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 10:23 amAmericans are shifting away from Chinese imports:
More and more, when I buy products, I try to buy products made by free workers in friendly nations. Apparently others, including profit-oriented businessmen, are beginning to do the same.
Jim Miller (d7ec43) — 8/7/2023 @ 10:27 amYes to all, as those at Wall Street banks, mechanics on Italian luxury cars, and five-star chefs are probably far more skilled than their opposites. As with the men’s and women’s WC teams. The women have far over-performed the men over their history of participation in the WC (the women’s WC tournament only goes back to 1991). No comparison.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 10:30 amOf the eight women’s World Cup tournaments since 1991, the US team has four (1991, 1999, 2015, and 2019).
I’m surprised the the US Soccer Federation is willing to accept such mediocrity from the men.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 10:36 amCorrection to post 206:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 10:49 amThis might explain why the US fields such mediocre national teams: In 2023, US nationals make up only 42% of Major League Soccer players. The rest are being trained for their national teams.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 10:58 amIn contrast, the US National Women’s Soccer League players total 260 players, of which 89% are US nationals.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 11:07 amLink for statistic in post 209.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 11:09 amIs there any criminal Republicans won’t vote for?
DRJ (3e213e) — 8/7/2023 @ 11:25 amI watched the 1st half of the US v. Sweden game last night (recorded). I think the US played well, were quick to the ball, maintained more possession, had more corners, and more shots on goal. Rodman in particular had two quality shots and a couple of dangerous crosses. Sometimes the goal and goalie are stubborn. I’ll wait to watch the rest of the game to make any big conclusions. Sweden IS the 3rd rated team in the world, yet they managed only 1 shot on goal for the entire game, including OT (the US finished with 22 shots and 11 on goal). That’s not exactly tearing it up by Sweden. The US also controlled the ball for 58% of the match. The US had 9 corners versus 3 which is a measure of quality chances and stressing the defense.
I do agree at this level, no one should airmail their PK, but it does happen. Nerves, fatigue, second-guessing yourself…it happens. I’m not a big fan of having PK’s determine a match. I prefer sudden death like hockey…maybe with fewer players on the field to accelerate a finish. But they’ve yet to ask me.
As to money, I agree that money from the country and facilities should be equal. Money from FIFA should be based on eyeballs at the game.
Rapinoe has had some great World Cups…this one wasn’t. Yes she was a sub, but her crosses were just a bit off and she had some miss kicks as well. I feel bad for her to go out that way with the missed PK just adding to the misery. I’m no fan of her LGBTQ everything approach. I get that she wants to use her celebrity for good, but most viewers aren’t there for that.
At the end, it’s hard to truly judge chemistry and comraderie from the game. Yes they’ve played better…meaning, scored more goals. But it’s also true that the world is catching up. Portugal played a really good game last week. Sweden is no joke a top 3 team. Sometimes you lose in a close game.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/7/2023 @ 11:29 amAnd probably have had better educational opportunities and background than their opposites, thereby leading to better positions.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 11:38 amAt least not for President. 😉
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 11:43 amRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 9:04 am
And Mike Pence never said tat Trump said that — because whether or not what he was asking Mike Pence to do was in violation of the constitution was a point at issue between them.
He did say that, according to Mike Pence, but in the context of not wanting to endorse a claim in a lawsuit he did not believe in.
Sammy Finkelman (6484e6) — 8/7/2023 @ 11:45 amTrump Civil Litigation Watch II
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 11:53 amI’m not sure where to start with Kevin’s analysis. On one hand he seems to applaud Trump’s use of populist rhetoric to secure power, but on the other hand recognizes that Trump has neither the skills nor the character to actually get anything done. Kevin’s previous comments would celebrate Trump’s death, believes he committed treason, and wants him to rot to prison. In some way maybe these two Kevins should debate and let me know how it turns out.
Maybe I can help you here. I do not see TRUMP and POPULISM as the same thing, and in fact I see them as almost entirely unrelated.
Trump not only hijacked the GOP, but he also hijacked a populist groundswell that started in the Oughts, if not before. He was able to do this because the GOP establishment used groups like the Teas when convenient and let them be suppressed when they weren’t.
Sadly, the only person with the clout and will to tear the GOP the new assh0le they thought it deserved was Donald Trump. Hobson’s Choice. By the time folks like Ted Cruz (for all his faults a better man) wised up, the deal was done.
If it had not been Trump it would have been someone else. If not anyone then, then later, with more vigor.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 12:06 pmDonald Trump May Get His Wish Real Soon……
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 12:06 pmShorter: If one cannot discuss “populism” without mentioning “Trump” then the argument is flawed through a fallacious association.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 12:07 pmWhy do you believe Trump could go to jail today?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 12:10 pmIt’s quite the indictment. Much of it is true, though the story is a bit more nuanced. OK, a lot more nuanced. For instance, we simply don’t know what would have happened if the banks were allowed to fail in 2007.
And now you put words in my mouth, to argue against positions I do not hold. There were lots of mistakes in 2007-2008, such as letting Lehman fail, and TARP was a OMG reaction. It seemed to me that a better path would have been shoring up mortgages, not mortgage holders (e.g. wiping 10% off the principle of all owner-occupied home loans). It would also have been good to put the boards of Fannie Mae and Ginnie Mae in prison, given the way they corruptly debased the mortgage-backed securities that were the international currency.
But no, just letting the banks fail would have been far far worse than what was done.
And really, pointing out that *some* populist ideas are stupid isn’t all that convincing when the problem they were addressing was CREATED by these oh-so-nuanced elites.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 12:15 pm*principal
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 12:17 pm@211
I mean, to be fair, at least half of our politicians would be criminals if they were treated exactly as John/Jane, Doe.
It’s really difficult, if impossible, to charge them with insider trading, as one example.
whembly (4716ab) — 8/7/2023 @ 12:19 pmHowever, you seem to have thoroughly debated FWO here. How about addressing what I wrote about “populism” without draping it with non sequiturs and snide remarks?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 12:23 pmIt’s really difficult, if impossible, to charge them with insider trading, as one example.
There does appear to be a level of criminality that is allowed in the ruling class. For example, it is hilarious to think that Trump is the only bad actor in the NY City real estate world, or that many city officials aren’t complicit in that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 12:26 pmRIP William Friedkin (87). Director of two of the seminal and biggest films of the 1970’s: The French Connection (winning a Best Director Oscar); and The Exorcist (Oscar nominee); Other films included Sorcerer (1977, a remake of Wages of Fear with an awesome Tangerine Dream score); The Night They Raided Minsky’s (1968); and To Live and Die in LA (1985).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 12:31 pmI would however be remiss to note that Reagan was a conservative and did not adopt the rhetoric of populism, though academics will have entire conferences debating what the term even means.
Which one?
Reagan led a popular wave rejecting the liberalism of the 60s and 70s, by people (like me) who were quite fed up. He was widely accused of simplistic solutions and bumper-sticker ideas. The domestic and diplomatic elite opposed him, and said he was a fool and worse.
Yet he changed the world.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 12:31 pmSo insider trading rules make you not care about any crimes or criminals, whembly? For you, crimes are not a problem when it comes to politicians?
DRJ (b2f0ad) — 8/7/2023 @ 12:39 pmI am not sure “populism” comes with an agreed upon definition. Buckley, the least man of the people person there ever may have been, certainly used populist rhetoric as part of his conservatism: (“I would rather be governed by the first 2,000 people in the telephone directory, than by the Harvard University faculty.”)
I am with Kevin M that it usualy emerges as a symptom of an illness in society, as opposed to any kind of governing platform. In the South, Populism isn’t good — it gave us people like George Wallace and Huey Long and Tom Watson (the villain in the Leo Frank case here in Atlanta). Donald Trump and MTG fit easily into that tradition. William Jennings Bryan, Populist #1, though, probably helped push government in a better direction in the early 1900s.
Appalled (03f53c) — 8/7/2023 @ 1:03 pm@228
I know you’re framing this with Trump in mind.
But outside of clear, “meat and potato” crimes, ie things like bribery, murder and the likes… I’d vote for a GOP candidate who’s be convicted of, lets say, classified handling than voting for Democrats.
I 100% believe that the direction Democrats are going is a clear and present danger to the US.
whembly (5f7596) — 8/7/2023 @ 1:28 pmI did not make up the article’s headline…….
TrumpWorld not amused.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 1:54 pmApparently 53% of Republican voters don’t understand that.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 2:01 pmSeventy-eight years ago yesterday.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 2:08 pmAJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/7/2023 @ 6:46 am
You echoed all the reactions I had to Kevin’s post. I co-sign.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/7/2023 @ 2:22 pm@234, Glad to have you on board, but Kevin wants me to more directly address his points. I fear repetition.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/7/2023 @ 2:42 pmThis Can’t Be Good For Rudy:
Another Bad Sign:
I expect Rudy will be indicted before the end of the year.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 2:43 pmSo you draw the line at murder, even though Trump has said he could murder someone and still be elected, and I believe him.
Don’t you think Trump and his family have taken and/or would take bribes?
DRJ (3e213e) — 8/7/2023 @ 2:55 pmit gave us people like George Wallace and Huey Long and Tom Watsonn
If Long had not been assassinated, the history of the US in the 20th Century might have been quite different. Imagine Huey Long in the White House in 1941 instead of FDR.
Which brings up a point: When I listed various Populist movements in US history, I listed the successful ones. Huey Long, Wallace & Perot in the 20th century. Bryan’s FOUR runs at the White House at the end of the 19th. The last two were not completely unsuccessful, as TR and Bill Clinton co-opted the main points. Asset will say that Nixon co-opted Wallace. Not true, but he did co-opt Wallace’s voters.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 3:05 pmUnderstand again, I am probably the person least congenial towards Trump on the blog. But the movement that he scammed still remains, leaderless right about now. They go through the motions, but they know that Trump is done. But their anger is not and their grievances remain.
Someone is going to pick them up. It may surprise you that I think the best candidate for that is Chris Christie. He has never attacked THEM, just the charlatan. I think he, of any of them, is capable of making the pivot. I’m sure he understands the deal they seek.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 3:10 pmGlad to have you on board, but Kevin wants me to more directly address his points. I fear repetition.
No, I want you to separate your criticism of “populism” from “Trump” (or any other individual). Personalities don’t address principles.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 3:13 pmHere’s the secret reason that Trump lost those 7 states:
He told his followers not to vote absentee, allowing Biden a whole month of GOtV to his one. If even a fraction of the hard-core Trump voters who were unable to make it to the polls day-of had voted by mail instead, Trump would have won the election.
But he told them not to, and made it a loyalty test.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 3:18 pmA Conversation Between NYT Columnists Bret Stephens and Gail Collins:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 3:20 pmI know Trump is willing to bribe for personal gain. He did it with Ukraine. It stands to reason he is open to being bribed.
So, really, there is no crime Republicans won’t tolerate.
DRJ (2e4ac4) — 8/7/2023 @ 4:18 pmYes to all, as those at Wall Street banks, mechanics on Italian luxury cars, and five-star chefs are probably far more skilled than their opposites. As with the men’s and women’s WC teams. The women have far over-performed the men over their history of participation in the WC (the women’s WC tournament only goes back to 1991). No comparison.
You’re trying to have your cake and eat it too, Rip. On the one hand you’re saying that differential in pay at places with high profit margins (Wall Street banks, luxury auto mechanics, high-end restaurants) is understandable because they bring in much higher margins than Main Street banks, domestic budget car auto mechanics, and chain restaurant chefs. You then even acknowledge the the U.S. Men play at a higher skill level than the women, which everyone except the Megan Rapinoes of the world accepts is due to physiological advantages that men have. But then you land right back on your assertion that the women should be paid more than the men because their performance on the field has been superior.
By those metrics, the Main Street banker whose assets grew by 35% last year should be paid more than the Wall Street banker whose assets grew by 20% last year, even if the Wall Street banker managed 100 times the sum that the Main Street banker did. Or the Ford mechanic who repaired 400 vehicles last year should be paid way more than the Ferrari mechanic who repaired 80. Or the chef at IHOP who served 25,000 diners should be paid way more than the cook at Le Cirque who served 5,000 diners.
JVW (1ad43e) — 8/7/2023 @ 4:29 pmPlease provide my exact quote; looking back at my posts I haven’t said that at all. The best thing I said about the men’s WC teams is that they are mediocre.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 4:52 pmSometimes a grift is only a grift. Or is Trump more popular than Coca-Cola? Or are people less gullible about their politicians than they are about their cold beverages?
Begging your pardon, but putting a “populist” label on Trump strikes me like the Florida anti-mask lady’s “Things gotta breathe”. Sure, it fits, but it’s not necessarily it.
nk (8e73e6) — 8/7/2023 @ 5:31 pmAs for you guys talking about the women’s soccer team, I’ve got four words for you: The Radio City Rockettes.
Sigh. And then we wonder how we got Trump.
nk (8e73e6) — 8/7/2023 @ 5:34 pmRip, I’m with JVW on this one. I don’t care if a WNBA team goes undefeated and wins ten consecutive championships. Its players wouldn’t get even half of what the players on the worst NBA team make. Why? Because the NBA commands a much bigger market.
It’s not about what’s fair. “Fair” is for Communists. Let the free market rule.
norcal (d04a50) — 8/7/2023 @ 5:38 pmWhatever. I’m not arguing about fairness, I am just pointing out that the men’s WC team for decades has been a failure in the World Cup (they didn’t even qualify for the tournaments between 1954 and 1986) and as I mentioned before only reached the quarter finals once in “recent” history (2002). If there was a powerhouse team representing the US, it’s been the women.
At best the US men are a regional power, as demonstrated by its record in the CONCACAF Gold Cup (oh, wait, they didn’t enter or qualify between 1963 and 1981). Watch them choke in 2026.
If the “free” market ruled then the men’s team would receive pay cuts for every mediocre performance. But as you point out, the market isn’t free.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 5:51 pmAt least the NBA teams win. You can’t say the same thing about the US Men’s World Cup Team.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 5:54 pmAt least the NBA teams win. You can’t say the same thing about the US Men’s World Cup Team.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 5:54 pm
I said the “worst” NBA team versus a perennially undefeated WNBA team.
Men’s soccer has a HUGE market compared to women’s soccer. Thus, even a poorly performing men’s team will earn more.
Don’t let your disappointment with the men’s team cloud your economic thinking.
norcal (d04a50) — 8/7/2023 @ 5:58 pmNo MLS team comes close to the value of a NFL, MLB, or NBA team. MLS team values are pocket change.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 6:16 pmThe men’s soccer market may be HUGE compared to the women’s league, but that’s a pretty low bar. Men’s soccer is a overall pipsqueak game.
Rip Murdock (b83512) — 8/7/2023 @ 6:26 pmWho can name a current American men’s team player?
Rip Murdock (b83512) — 8/7/2023 @ 6:28 pmNo MLS team comes close to the value of a NFL, MLB, or NBA team. MLS team values are pocket change.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/7/2023 @ 6:16 pm
I never said that was the case.
I was making a men versus women team comparison.
Just as an NBA team is worth ten times, if not more, than a WNBA team, men’s world soccer is worth more than women’s world soccer. That’s why, even though the U.S. men’s soccer team performs poorly, it still commands more pay than the U.S. women’s team.
Men’s soccer market >>>>>>>> women’s soccer market.
norcal (d04a50) — 8/7/2023 @ 6:29 pmAnd please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said that soccer was as big as the NBA or other professional sports.
norcal (d04a50) — 8/7/2023 @ 6:31 pmRepublican legislature emergency election tomorrow in ohio to raise ballot measure passage from 50% to 60% of vote for abortion rights protection as rethugliKKKans know they will lose other wise. This is why I say they are evil.
asset (03f304) — 8/7/2023 @ 6:33 pmGiuliani was nor forging evidence. He relied in part, on Sidney Powell, andbroke with her when she didn’t produce what she claimed she had. He seemed to believe that, as Trump’s lawyer and friend, it was his obligation to believe anything he possibly could an=bout a dishonest election.
There were false accusations and false indications of election fraud coming out of the woodwork, but where they were really coming from, we don’t know.
Sammy Finkelman (6484e6) — 8/7/2023 @ 7:11 pmRudi Giuliani has always been a slimeball.
nk (92d3fc) — 8/7/2023 @ 7:29 pmSammy Finkelman (6484e6) — 8/7/2023 @ 7:11 pm
I don’t know who fell further, Giuliani or Ted Cruz. At one point, I would have voted for either of them. Behold what the Mar-a-Loser hath wrought.
norcal (d04a50) — 8/7/2023 @ 7:29 pmGood news: Women’s world cup sets new attendance record with 8 games to go
Bad news: Record was set with an average attendance of 26,000
Mens world cup in Qatar most venues were 44,000-45,000 capacity and average attendance was 96.5% of capacity
Womens world cup expectations are so low that some of the first round venues seat under 13,000. Putting the Brazil and England mens teams in a 13,000 seat stadium in the World Cup would be unthinkable, but that is exactly where the womens teams went
Mens TV revenue was $3 Billion
Womens TV Revenue projected to be $300M or 10% of the mens
Serena Williams was the most honest womens athlete on the subject when she noted men tennis players go best of 5, women best of 3. She noted that Andy Murray, the best mens player at the time of the interview would beat her 6-0, 6-0 in less than 10 minutes
On the home front, NWSL average attendance 7900. MSL 23,000.
steveg (2cbb1e) — 8/7/2023 @ 7:54 pmNWSL TV deal was $4.5M spread over 3 years, Sponsorship revenue $26M per year
MLS TV $7M per season, Sponsorship revenues $812 Million per year
I think most politicians that come up through the LA-Boston-Philadelphia-NYC-DC-Baltimore schools of local politics are slimeballs. I include T-Rump. I am more inclined to see the Trump’s as doing the bribing rather than the taking of bribes. Nobody ever bribed them to build something in NYC, but they have no doubt greased palms up and down the entire state
steveg (2cbb1e) — 8/7/2023 @ 8:02 pmsteveg (2cbb1e) — 8/7/2023 @ 7:54 pm
Thank you for adding the details, Steve.
norcal (d04a50) — 8/7/2023 @ 8:02 pmI don’t know who fell further, Giuliani or Ted Cruz.
Giuliani already had a reputation as an unethical prosecutor and dirty tricks artist by the time of the Gotti trial in 1992. His personal reputation was even worse.
nk (92d3fc) — 8/7/2023 @ 8:25 pmUSMNT share of World Cup 2022 pot of money was $30 Million for advancing to the knockout round, but they had to give $6.5M of that to the USWNT.
USWNT share of the money pot for advancing to the knockout round of their tournament is $2.9M and they owe the men about $600K so no doubt the men will be expected by some not to take the $$
Among the things I supported for the women was equal accomodations, flights, per diem. etc. I’m not a fan of insisting the mens and womens coaches be paid the same as that pay scale is set by professional European clubs
steveg (2cbb1e) — 8/7/2023 @ 8:49 pmSo, really, there is no crime Republicans won’t tolerate.
What, DRJ, is a crime? I can name a number of things that Democrats have done OPENLY that I consider worse crimes than bribery. Starting with Obamacare, which robbed 5 million families of health insurance.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 9:27 pmI don’t know who fell further, Giuliani or Ted Cruz. At one point, I would have voted for either of them. Behold what the Mar-a-Loser hath wrought.
Indeed.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/7/2023 @ 9:30 pmI didn’t. I included your clear comment, and added additional information.
Rip Murdock (bac490) — 8/7/2023 @ 10:49 pmI said nothing about fairness-it’s a question of merit. Under a purely meritocratic standard, the men’s WC results do not justify paying high salaries to a team that barely makes it halfway through a World Cup tourney every time it plays (if it qualifies at all). What a gig!
I expect that US team in 2026 will have as much chance winning the tournament (let alone reaching the knockout round) as Chris Christie winning the Republican nomination.
As far as comparison of MLS, NFL, etc. valuations, it just goes to show that the marketplace doesn’t think much of soccer. The TV numbers posted above also demonstrates that-the TV deals for the NFL, etc. are measured in billions. MLS really isn’t a big deal in the US (and has been pointed out) even less so for women.
It’s been a great discussion but I’ve said all I’m going to say on this topic.
Rip Murdock (bac490) — 8/7/2023 @ 11:22 pm@267 So called obama care was invented by the heritage foundation to counter hillary clinton’s single payer. Romney brought it to mass. when gov. When Obama couldn’t break senate fillibuster on single payer plan he allowed this republican plan which of course was unworkable. What democrats should of done when single payer was blocked instead of foisting this crap, when people died from lack of healthcare they should of arrested republicans for their deaths and try them for their deaths. Democrats were to soft until AOC and the squad came along.
asset (03f304) — 8/7/2023 @ 11:28 pmI didn’t mean to put words in your mouth, but I do see how you might have thought that.
Rip Murdock (bac490) — 8/7/2023 @ 11:42 pmRip Murdock (bac490) — 8/7/2023 @ 11:42 pm
No hard feelings.
I usually agree with you on politics. We can agree to disagree on this one.
norcal (c976b4) — 8/8/2023 @ 1:31 amKevin M 267,
That is an example of the thought process that got the Republicans where they are now.
DRJ (51bb15) — 8/8/2023 @ 1:56 amDitto asset 271 and the Democrats.
DRJ (51bb15) — 8/8/2023 @ 1:57 amKen White follows up, driving a stake through Andy McCarthy’s defense of his “it can’t be fraud!” claim which we’ve discussed here. Here’s Ken’s meta-argument:
I share Ken’s dismay over the too common inability/refusal to distinguish between what the law is and what one wants it to be.
Ken’s legal argument is in the first ellipses. By now much of it should be familiar.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/8/2023 @ 2:40 amellipsis
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/8/2023 @ 2:46 amOne last shot at Kevin’s “populism”. I will not do this in seriatem as we have a fundamental problem that over-rides his details. Kevin described Lincoln, FDR, and Reagan as “populists”. This does not seem consistent with how poltical scientists use the word. Kevin picks some of the most popular and successful presidents in history and then says that they are populists, ergo populism is great. I’ll ride with the political scientists on this one.
I’ll crib from the following bbc article as many of its observations and quotes are consistent with more scholarly efforts, yet more digestible
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-43301423
Populism pits “the people” against “the elites” where the people are pure and the elites are corrupt. Populists tend to lower the quality of discourse, perpetuate a state of crisis, are more against things than for others, dislike institutional constraints, and believe in their own infallibility. None of this sounds at all like Lincoln, FDR, or Reagan.
If we go to the definitive source, wikipedia, and examine populism in the U.S.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populism_in_the_United_States#:~:text=In%20American%20political%20rhetoric%2C%20%22populist,the%20left%E2%80%93right%20political%20spectrum.
there seems to be some agreement. We see Andrew Jackson, William Jennings Bryant, George Wallace, Huey Long, Ross Perot, Bernie Sanders, and even a mention of little old Sarah Palin.
But alas none of the heavy hitters like Lincoln, FDR, or Reagan. It’s probably not to say that each may employ elements of populism in some of their rhetoric, but that none of them have enough of the above common traits that social scientists would ascribe to populism. So going through point by point Kevin’s defense is useless if we are simply talking about different things.
AJ_Liberty (ad7611) — 8/8/2023 @ 4:04 amAs to soccer, here is Forbes list of the 50 most valuable sports teams:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2022/09/08/the-worlds-50-most-valuable-sports-teams-2022/?sh=54a2f05a385c
The highest rated soccer club, Real Madrid, checked in at #13 at $5.1B. The Cowboys were #1. Interestingly the Bears checked in at #6, so I’m not sure how correlated value is to winning anything. To futher make the point, the lowly Houston Texans sit at #17, where uber successful Manchester City sits at #24.
Football being so valued might only indicate that it wins the popularity contest in the most economically successful country in the world. The US has the most money and we love our football. I think if we took a vote of 7.88B people in the world, soccer wins hands down. Heck even more kids in the US play soccer versus tackle football. Sure it’s lower cost and safer, but if it was so lame, you wouldn’t see the participation.
Now the USMNT then also confronts the problem that because we are such a wealthy nation, we have a lot more money chasing our sports. Athletes have far more sports to choose from: football, basketball, baseball, hockey drawing a lot of talent. Brazil doesn’t have the same dynamic. England maybe cricket. The best athletes across the world tend to be playing soccer, yet the USMNT team ranks 11 in the world. And players like Christian Pulisic are in demand in the top European leagues. The idea that “we suck” really depends on perspective. I think the quality of US play has improved a lot over the past 30 years, and we win more…justifying the ranking. Winning it “all” is a very tall ask.
Markets set pay. I get that the women’s team generate a lot of attention during the Olympics and World Cup and have been extremely successful. But that does not change the economics of how many people watch women’s soccer versus men’s soccer. Even look at attendance at the women’s league games versus MLS. If women’s soccer was so popular that really hasn’t translated into soccer league attendance. That should tell us something. Nationalism loves a winner but I doubt Rip is spending his money going to NWSL games.
AJ_Liberty (ad7611) — 8/8/2023 @ 4:29 amI’m no swimmer, but were she slimmer, I might have saved Clementine.
The Bobby Darin version of My Darling Clementine, just for something completely different.
nk (92d3fc) — 8/8/2023 @ 5:29 amMy older sister had this Bobby Darin 45 record. It’s still kinda catchy.
Switching gears, this graph on on Chinese net investment is a repudiation of Chairman Xi.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/8/2023 @ 6:05 amI usually agree with Jack Goldsmith, but not here. The “terrible consequences” already happened, when Trump repeatedly broke the law after the November election. The unprecedented criminal indictments are happening because of one person’s unprecedented criminal behavior. If anything, Garland left out a set of crimes: Trump’s proven obstruction of justice in office, as documented in the Mueller report.
The GOP argument at the impeachment trial was that, instead of being convicted in the Senate, he could be tried in criminal courts, but now the complaint is that he’s being indicted in criminal courts now that his presidency is over.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/8/2023 @ 6:35 amWe see a lot of that here also.
Rip Murdock (bac490) — 8/8/2023 @ 6:55 am@237
I don’t.
Possibly?
But, as investigated the Trumps are, I’m curious why the FBI didn’t find any. As public knowledge goes, nothing the Trumps have done comes close to the blatant influence peddling/bribes that we seeing with the Bidens.
whembly (db54cc) — 8/8/2023 @ 7:41 am@243
I see you’ve made up your mind.
Ok.
I. Don’t. Want. Democrats. In. Power.
That’s my line.
I realize that we have to do better in nominating better GOP candidates, but Democrats are destroying this country in ways that may be impossible to address.
So, until then, I’m #NeverDemocrats.
This is how someone like Pinonchet rose to power.
So, if you want better GOP candidates, do the hard work and campaign for better candidates.
whembly (db54cc) — 8/8/2023 @ 7:49 am@258
Evil?
How ’bout good governance?
Every other state in the nation are at least 60%. (I can’t find any states with less than that other than OH).
Asset, the language you use is telling that you’re a Marxist adherent and it’s the same language that bolsheviks, nazis and commies used to justify their actions.
whembly (db54cc) — 8/8/2023 @ 7:55 amMy comments weren’t about whether Trump should be President, whembly. My comments were about Republicans that still support Trump. No crime will change their minds because, as you say, they will always see Democrats as worse.
DRJ (51bb15) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:04 am“but Democrats are destroying this country in ways that may be impossible to address”
Destroying? You might want to flush that out a bit. I’m no fan of Obama or Obamacare…and most of Democrat identity politics and income redistribution is nauseating…but it’s a far cry from destroying anything. Most legislative stuff can’t get passed, provided our politics retains the filibuster. Even executive over-reach…like the big company vaccine mandate and Biden’s unilateral renter protection order…are cleaned up by the courts. Judicial appointments are problematic and will always argue for Republicanism…but if we had a more functional legislature, it would minimize the impact of the court.
Democrats are your neighbors, your family members, your co-workers, and the guy in the next pew. We have far more that unites us than should divide us. There is no existential doom lingering, except maybe national debt….which has become as bipartisan as anything. Neither side chooses to deal honestly about it. In the GOP field, only Trump and Ramaswamy are bad choices in my estimation. The rest would be improvements over Biden, more competent than Harris, and less obnoxious than Newsom.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:15 amNo other State has made representative democracy as meanigless as Ohio has, with gerrymandering, mis-apportionment, malapportionment, and outright packet boroughs. Only a state-wide election allows one person-one vote.
nk (92d3fc) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:26 amWhembly says:
“As public knowledge goes, nothing the Trumps have done comes close to the blatant influence peddling/bribes that we seeing with the Bidens.” ([sic]. The only peddling we have been seeing is Hunter Biden.)
Thing is, Trump, by faling to divest out of his hotels, was always vulnerable to this charge:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/documents-detail-big-foreign-government-spending-at-trump-hotel-01668472156
How soon we forget…
Appalled (03f53c) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:26 am@287
That’s why I’ve been so adamant, and agitated that we must pull behind a candidate that can beat Trump in the primaries. Even if that person isn’t your 1st choice… to me, the only criterion is who can beat Trump.
whembly (db54cc) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:27 amI share Ken’s dismay over the too common inability/refusal to distinguish between what the law is and what one wants it to be.
It’s possible it’s the law that is the ass.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:30 amThat is an example of the thought process that got the Republicans where they are now.
Perhaps. But the thought process that suggests that any of our leaders feel bound by the Rule of Law is what got the country here.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:34 amThat may be, but it is the only law we’ve got. Those who oppose whatever law they disagree with should advocate that it be changed to reflect their preferences.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:34 am@290
Were they at risk?
Sure.
But, SCO / Congress / State AG hasn’t found any chargable instances… right?
Don’t you think if it existed, they would’ve charged the Trumps by now?
whembly (db54cc) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:37 amwhembly,
In fairness, they have been busy. You know, investigating January 6 and all that. There also was a conscious decision to not charge Trump in the first two years of the Biden administration.
Also, is influence peddling really a crime? I’m not sure it is. H Biden’s offense was not registering as a foreign agent and paying his taxes. It’s not sitting on Burisma’s board.
Look, the Clinton foundation (and its ilk), enormous advances for bad books or bad artwork, and prominent hotel stays are all ways to pass money from a rich guy to a President or their relatives. It’s a bi-partisan problem that nobody is interested in solving.
Appalled (03f53c) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:46 amNot true.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:48 amKevin picks some of the most popular and successful presidents in history and then says that they are populists
All of them were thrust into power by populist movements. The point I was trying to make is that the MOVEMENT is what is populist, not the politician.
Lincoln most of all. If you read about his road to the nomination, and the groundswell that led to the Republican Party and Convention of 1860, this will be more than obvious. It was the peak of a sea-change of popular opposition to slavery, not some carefully nuanced retuning of political thought.
Similarly, FDR came to power at the from of popular anger at the economic power structure of the times, and the catastrophe of the Great Depression.
Reagan was elected due to the failures of the Great Society, the overbearing regulation of everything, the inability of the government to deal with the Soviets, Iran or nearly any other foreign actor in the wake of Vietnam. It was probably the only moment he could have been elected.
It’s not about the person who fills the role, it’s about the popular movement that brings these people to the fore. It did not have to be Trump in 2016. But no one else stood up to lead the movement that was there. How an opportunist like Ted Cruz missed it is a wonder.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:49 amIf you mean that offering, giving, receiving or soliciting anything of value to influence the process of procuring goods or services, selecting consultants, or executing contracts, then yes. If simply lobbying someone, then no, unless the lobbyist is representing someone covered by the Foreign Agents Registration Act..
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:55 am@297:
It should be noted that initiative amendments usually have much higher signature requirements than initiative statutes. There are also limitations that doe not apply to amendments that come out of the legislature (e.g. California’s “single-issue” rule, or its ban on large rewrites).
Considering that a constitutional amendment is hard to later amend, despite later popular will, the requirement of a 60% vote doesn’t seem unreasonable. California would have profited by such a rule.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:59 amThe failure of Trump to divest himself of his hotels isn’t influence peddling, but was probably a violation of the Domestic Emoluments Clause (a.k.a. the Presidential Emoluments Clause) (Article II, § 1, Clause 7) and possibly the Foreign Emoluments Clause (Article I, § 9, Clause 8) the Constitution:
However, the court cases brought by various parties against Trump were all dismissed due to lack of standing. It appears the clauses are enforceable only through impeachment.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:09 amIn California constitutional amendments are amended at the drop of a hat.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:12 amHi Rip,
IANL so I use “infuence peddling” the way an average guy would describe it; not in the way DOJ would prosecute it. If Saudi Arabia rents the super-duper suite at a Trump hotel, or buy Hunter Biden’s “art”, they are doing it to make a statement to the guy they want to influence.
Appalled (03f53c) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:18 ambut was probably a violation of the Domestic Emoluments Clause (a.k.a. the Presidential Emoluments Clause) (Article II, § 1, Clause 7) and possibly the Foreign Emoluments Clause (Article I, § 9, Clause 8) the Constitution:
Emoluments are an old way of saying “tips” or payments for favors. Normal business transactions are not the same thing. George Effing Washington had many business dealings, often with government, as did a number of other well-heeled presidents in the 19th century.
I’ve said before, and will say again: any interpretation of the Constitution that deters wealthy people from seeking high office is a mistake. Sure, some divest, but it cannot be made a qualification for a Constitutional office.
And if we must, let’s start with Congress.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:23 amIn California constitutional amendments are amended at the drop of a hat.
Name the last one.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:24 amMorning Consult Republican Primary Tracking Poll 8/8/23
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:24 amAn example of an “Emolument” was the $20 million the Saudis gave to Secretary of State Clinton’s foundation after she did them a solid.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:26 am@306:
When the dam breaks wrt Trump (assuming it ever does), all this will be forgotten. Singularities are like that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:27 am@296
I don’t think that’s fair.
I’m sure they looked for instances of bribery but the simply fact of how zealous these prosecutors are.
Yeah, for political reasons. 😉
Influence peddling isn’t a crime in a vacuum. The connecting thread that WOULD make it a crime, I think, is if it impacted public polices for corrupt purposes. (ie, I give you $5 million for you to do “x” for me).
Yup.
We get the politicians we deserve.
whembly (db54cc) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:29 am@297 Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2023 @ 8:48 am
whembly (db54cc) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:30 amRip, your google-fu is on point here. Thanks.
Now you are on the “any crime” bandwagon, too, Kevin?
DRJ (51bb15) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:44 amWhat makes the Rule of Law work is people obeying the law. Deciding the law doesn’t always work or issues are more important than holding people accountable is why we have chaos.
DRJ (51bb15) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:46 amNovember 3, 2020-Proposition 16: Allows Diversity as a Factor in Public Employment, Education, and Contracting Decisions, which would have repealed Proposition 209 passed in 1996. It failed.
November 8, 2022-Proposition 1: Constitutional Right to Reproductive Freedom. It passed.
The next constitutional amendment will be on the March 5th Presidential Primary Ballot-Assembly Constitutional Amendment No. 5—A resolution to propose to the people of the State of California an amendment to the Constitution of the State, by repealing and adding Section 7.5 of Article I thereof, relating to (marriage equality) rights. This would repeal Proposition 8, a citizen initiative constitutional amendment passed in 2008.
Here is a summary of constitutional amendments considered by California voters 1974-2020. During that period, 64 elections were held with a total of 209 constitutional amendments. Of the 64 elections, only three didn’t have at least one constitutional amendment on the ballot, either placed by the legislature or by citizen initiative.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:50 am@312 Here’s my over-arching issue….
We have a problem if the same zeal and gusto isn’t applied to Democrats like, *cough*HRC / Joe Biden*cough*, as it was applied to Trump.
Rule of law matters diddly if there’s a 2-tier justice system.
THAT’S why there’s chaos here…
whembly (db54cc) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:51 amEveryone thinks their concerns and their issues are too important to give up on. Environmentalists think they are saving the world, so they see breaking rules as noble. So do Trump supporters. (Trump does, too, albeit not for issues but for himself.) That is not how governing by agreement, as opposed to force, works.
DRJ (51bb15) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:51 amBut as long as you put your issues first, whembly, get used to chaos.
DRJ (51bb15) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:52 amLiving in California, I knew your statement was incorrect (see post 313 above).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:54 amThe Internet is your friend.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2023 @ 9:58 am@316
Oh, I’m willing and able to. 😉
whembly (db54cc) — 8/8/2023 @ 10:01 amNow you are on the “any crime” bandwagon, too, Kevin?
Hardly. I’m just suggesting that the powers that be are. Except when it suits their purpose.
The whole idea of “discretion” in executing the law seems to be contrary to the promise to “faithfully execute the law.” For the executive to pick and choose what parts of laws to follow makes legislative decisions are compromise immaterial, and makes a mockery of the Rule of Law.
For me to point out that mockery is not to express a preference.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 10:01 am* AND compromise
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 10:01 am@318
If you knew what I do for a living… no, the internet is NOT my friend.
whembly (db54cc) — 8/8/2023 @ 10:02 amBut, perhaps, there is a point where one is a schmuck to fight by the Rules when your opponent keeps punching you in the nuts.
“Gentlemen don’t read other gentlemen’s mail”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 10:07 amQuestion: How would Congress pass a compromise immigration reform law when the Executive feels able to ignore parts of it? The necessary tradeoffs that comprise such compromises rely utterly on the expectation that each section will be followed.
But what we have now is presidential preference substituted for large portions of the current law, and candidates compete on how they would substitute different preferences.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/8/2023 @ 10:20 amwhembly (db54cc) — 8/8/2023 @ 7:49 am
Pinochet rose to power in Chile because he was the only high ranking military figure who pretended to support Salvador Allende.
Allende ws ruinig the economy of Chile.
What killed democracy i Chile was oone-time six-year presidential term, plus the legislature ignoring the provision that when a candidate for president got too small a percentage of the vote (I forgot whether it was 40% or 50%) the legislature picked.
They agreed they should pick the plurality winner (Allende at about 35%) rather than the Condercet choice.
We have the same problem with major party candidates for president,
The system of not having the convention choose one of the also rans or someone else altogether when no one has a majority on the first ballot is what has given us rotten presidential candidates: McGovern, Carter, Clinton and Trump.
So, if you want better GOP candidates, do the hard work and campaign for better candidates.
Sammy Finkelman (67b38b) — 8/8/2023 @ 10:59 am@326
Yes. Absolutely this.
Because if we fail, we deserve whomever is elected.
whembly (5f7596) — 8/8/2023 @ 12:22 pmAs the Supreme Court has recognized most recently in US v. Texas (2023), Congress has continually failed to provide the necessary resources to completely enforce current immigration laws:
My emphasis.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/8/2023 @ 1:19 pmAnd they don’t want to.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/8/2023 @ 2:40 pmThis was from
whembly (db54cc) — 8/8/2023 @ 7:49 am a quote I forgot to delete
No, if you want better GOP candidates, try to get candidates to campaign to change the rules.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/8/2023 @ 2:43 pmYes, they do this.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/8/2023 @ 2:46 pmSomeone argues (at least in part) that high interest rates cause and do not stop inflation:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-high-mortgage-rates-fuel-inflation-construction-sticky-fine-tune-3e40677d
The bottom note reveals he was a Trump appointee:
I never said that Trump wasn’t a better bet on some issues (but a cynic on immigration). But Trump didn’t entirely listen.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/8/2023 @ 2:53 pmhttps://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/04/opinion/us-economy-debt-crisis.html
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/8/2023 @ 2:57 pmEverybody on every side keeps on saying that Joe Biden got rid of a Ukrainian prosecutor but there is no corroboration for any of his story.
Joe Biden was not put in charge of Ukrainian policy. He was not supposed to announce loan guarantees His visit to Kiev (n December 2015) did not take place any time close to when the prosecutor was voted out (in March, 2016) , and that wasn’t close in time to the granting of the loan guarantee (in June 2016) and it was announced it would be held hostage in November 2015 and not by Joe Biden by surprise. The firing was not a key requirement. It was a loan guarantee, not a loan.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/8/2023 @ 3:03 pmThat was much of my intended implication.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/8/2023 @ 3:32 pmExactly. And if my representatives won’t change the laws I hate, I should vote them out and elect ones who will. And if I can’t persuade my fellow constituents to do that, maybe it means they don’t share my hostility to the laws I want changed. This is after all a democracy.
Regardless, the only thing misrepresenting laws as what I’d like them to be does is spread ignorance and misplaced outrage. And as we’ve seen too often recently, telling people their laws, norms and institutions are unworthy of respect invites extremists on both sides to burn the village to save the village. Suddenly every incel with a ski mask and a baseball bat thinks he’s Sam Adams. Demagoguery has costs.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/8/2023 @ 4:49 pm“Joe Biden was not put in charge of Ukrainian policy. He was not supposed to announce loan guarantees His visit to Kiev (n December 2015) did not take place any time close to when the prosecutor was voted out (in March, 2016) , and that wasn’t close in time to the granting of the loan guarantee (in June 2016) and it was announced it would be held hostage in November 2015 and not by Joe Biden by surprise”
Which brings up the obvious question of how Joe knew how to insert himself as the hero of this story he knew nothing about. Possibly suggesting that though Joe’s timeline is off, but he actually did insert himself into something that was “none of his business, but maybe his sons business”? This could easily be taken as evidence that the only reason Joe Biden became involved was because Hunter was talking to him, needing Joe to make some noise. The common elements in this huge coincidence are Joe and Hunter
steveg (33ddec) — 8/8/2023 @ 5:36 pmIt’s going to take awhile before we know the true extent of the damage caused by the Maui wildfire, but we’re feeling it because there’s nothing left of Mrs. Montagu’s family’s museum but embers and ash.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/9/2023 @ 3:51 pmsteveg (33ddec) — 8/8/2023 @ 5:36 pm
Joe didn’t give a timeline. Everybody at first thought it was March, 2016, but then they discovered that the last time Joe Biden visited Kiev before the firing or what could be called the firing, was December, so the Washington Post moved the story to December, 2015.
He inserted himself into an event he had nothing to do with…it’s a total lie, whose apparent point is that he was a vice president with superpowers.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/impeaching-a-trump-impeachment-hunter-biden-partisan-investigation-ukraine-gop-election-847d972
Not sure I understand that last sentence.
Sammy Finkelman (1532a3) — 8/9/2023 @ 4:26 pmJoe Biden actually told two different versions of hos he caused the firing..
Homan Jenkins doesn’t realize this
Sammy Finkelman (1532a3) — 8/9/2023 @ 4:27 pmRuh-roh. Another cult member went off the rails.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12390415/Utah-man-shot-dead-FBI-raid-making-credible-threats-against-Joe-Biden-400-miles-south-Grand-Canyon-yesterday.html
What an idiot. He leaves behind a disabled adult son who lived with him, and whom he cared for.
https://thecougarchronicle.com/breaking-elderly-provo-man-killed-in-home-raid-by-law-enforcement-the-coug-chron/
norcal (bc0bb5) — 8/9/2023 @ 5:46 pmBadge-heavy thugs. There was no need to SWAT him. They had talked with him earlier and knew he was an old man. They could have waited him out and talked him down.
nk (df56ed) — 8/9/2023 @ 6:14 pmThey could have waited him out and talked him down.
nk (df56ed) — 8/9/2023 @ 6:14 pm
Mormons often have a year’s supply of food and other things necessary for survival. 🤨
norcal (bc0bb5) — 8/9/2023 @ 6:43 pmPaul, I’m sorry about the loss of your wife’s family’s (ancestors’?) home. I hope that’s all that was lost, and that any family still on Maui are personally safe.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 8/10/2023 @ 2:21 am@341. They’d been talking to him since at least March. Instead of knocking it off, he increased his threats. His family should have intervened. He was clearly not well. But there was plenty of time for him to come to his senses, if he had any. Most of these cases (and there are lots of them for every President) end with people stopping making threats.
JRH (afc554) — 8/10/2023 @ 6:41 amBut ugh it is sad. I do get the point. I wonder if they tried getting some family members on the scene to talk to him? If not they should have.
JRH (afc554) — 8/10/2023 @ 6:53 am@337 I am sorry too. I read a little about that church online. Sounds like an incredible legacy.
JRH (afc554) — 8/10/2023 @ 7:14 amBadge-heavy thugs. There was no need to SWAT him.
He had threatened to shoot at the FBI if they returned. He may have been Mormon, but I suspect copious amounts of alcohol were involved.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/10/2023 @ 8:27 amHis online posts included photos of him displaying his weapons. Old men can still shoot.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/10/2023 @ 9:06 amFelony complaint against Craig Deleeuw Robertson, including the specific threats.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/10/2023 @ 9:27 amTo protect Burisma or Zlochevsky. Or that’s what Burisma’s lawyers were telling people.
George Kent complained to Vice President Biden personally that Hunter’s presence on the Burisma board was interfering with the U.S. government’s anti-corruption efforts.
Sammy Finkelman (1532a3) — 8/10/2023 @ 10:01 amFelony complaint against Craig Deleeuw Robertson, including the specific threats.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/10/2023 @ 9:27 am
Thank you for that, Rip. Mr. Robertson was an even bigger piece of work than I thought.
norcal (290511) — 8/10/2023 @ 12:55 pmHe may have been Mormon, but I suspect copious amounts of alcohol were involved.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/10/2023 @ 8:27 am
I doubt that very much.
https://www.abc4.com/news/central-utah/neighbors-speak-about-the-provo-man-killed-by-the-fbi/
1) He was a church-going Mormon.
2) He was the financial clerk for his congregation.
3) He lived in Provo, which is Mormon Mecca (much more so than Salt Lake City). Your neighborhood IS your congregation. My mother lives in Provo. Her sister used to live next door. A rumor started in the neighborhood that my aunt was Catholic because she wore a cross on a necklace! Gladys Kravitz types abound.
That made him all the more scary, in that he was almost certainly doing it sober. It appears to me he was a man of low education and strong emotions who consumed nothing but MAGA propaganda.
I don’t blame the authorities for showing up SWAT style.
norcal (290511) — 8/10/2023 @ 1:10 pm337. here’s a somewhat poor quality video with unnecessary music of the interior of the Baldwin Museum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znp32_Yr3o4
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/10/2023 @ 2:09 pmA few still pictures of the outside with narration:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UipUdNFJ1w
Facebook waterfall:
https://www.facebook.com/baldwinreynolds/videos/weve-been-doing-some-big-things-on-the-grounds-of-the-baldwin-reynolds-house-mus/593707285435896/
Overview of tourist spots in Lahaina, Hawaii:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoSPyEPrtCU
https://www.google.com/search?q=baldwin+home+museum+video&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1070&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A12%2F12%2F1990%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F2019&tbm=#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:32bd8a80,vid:eEAjyZJD7xU
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 8/10/2023 @ 2:18 pmGiuliani is an idiot:
https://people.com/rudy-giuliani-audio-transcripts-sexual-assault-lawsuit-7569212
Put it this way:
He even had a theory that Jewish men had to remain faithful to their wives, and that reduced their sexual performance (because presumably they got less practice) while Italian men did not.
He also did not like the fact that Jews were still celebrating Passover after 3,000 years (I would guess because it made some people temporarily unavailable to him)
Now it’s not tapes that have been submitted to a court, but transcripts.
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 8/10/2023 @ 3:58 pmAnd all these things were said to a woman.
Sammy FInkelman (1d215a) — 8/10/2023 @ 4:03 pmFrom Sammy’s link:
nk (b85928) — 8/10/2023 @ 4:07 pmFrom Sammy’s link:
Dunphy’s lawsuit also alleges Giuliani was selling presidential pardons for $2 million.
nk (b85928) — 8/10/2023 @ 4:07 pm
Well, Rudy sure wasn’t going to earn anything by endorsing a hair dye company.
norcal (290511) — 8/10/2023 @ 4:29 pmhttps://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2023/08/epa-tries-to-destroy-the-grid.php
People voting for Democrats will be so surprised when the grid fails and if you are lucky enough to occasionally have power your rates will skyrocket.
But it’s about abortion and putting those hicks in their place.
NJRob (fcb94c) — 8/10/2023 @ 7:27 pmhttps://twitter.com/TuckerCarlson/status/1689783814594174976
O.o
Unlike his previous interviews, Tuckers just let the interviewer talk, only asking simply questions.
This is the first I’ve been in contact from Chief Sund’s perspective…which is probably the number 1 guy you’d want to interview to determine what, exactly, happened in J6. That tells me, that there had to be concerted efforts to minimize this individual’s testimony.
Evidently, he has citations, from government testimonies, GAO, J6 committees to back up his perspectives and assertions. So, I’m curious about his book.
Has anyone really taken in what Chief Sund be articulating?
whembly (5f7596) — 8/11/2023 @ 5:52 amHe testified before Congress.
DRJ (eae79e) — 8/11/2023 @ 6:28 amJanuary 6 may have been orchestrated by the government, not necessarily President Trump’s government, just, you know, the government, and, anyway, nobody told Sund anything, so he never knew and he still does not know, but you have to suspect that it was for political purposes.
What? What did you expect from Tucker Carlson? An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations?
nk (9fd2b3) — 8/11/2023 @ 6:31 am@361
Yes, he did, but Chief Sunds explained here that J6 committee wasn’t all that interested from his perspective.
But, I would implore you, please stop treating J6 committee as the end-all-be-all determination of all the things we need to know about J6. Because, if you’re honest, you’d realize that J6 committee was more about setting a political narrative, rather than a good faith investigation as to what happened that day.
So, please, if you have time, watch that interview and let me know what you think.
whembly (5f7596) — 8/11/2023 @ 6:46 amI don’t need no DC bureaucratic clock watcher (literally, Sund can tell you how long he was “denied access to National Guard troops”, it was 71 minutes) to tell me what happened on January 6. I know what happened on January 6.
Trump spent two months before the election telling his wackos that it was going to be rigged and stolen. Then he spent two months after the election telling them that it was rigged and stolen. Then he gathered the most agitated ones in Washington DC, pointed at the Capitol, and said “Sic em, Fidos!”
That’s what happened.
nk (9fd2b3) — 8/11/2023 @ 6:51 amhttps://twitter.com/ChiefSund/status/1689642969153101825
whembly (5f7596) — 8/11/2023 @ 7:00 am@364
Tell me your spirit animal is a sheep, without telling me.
whembly (5f7596) — 8/11/2023 @ 7:01 amhttps://twitter.com/ChiefSund/status/1687589523104862208
whembly (5f7596) — 8/11/2023 @ 7:02 amhttps://twitter.com/ChiefSund/status/1687546983630675968
whembly (5f7596) — 8/11/2023 @ 7:03 amhttps://twitter.com/ChiefSund/status/1687539433979969546
whembly (5f7596) — 8/11/2023 @ 7:04 amNow I’ve posted excerpt from Chief Sund’s twitter page about his perspective, because I don’t know if some of ya’ll would go to Tucker and watch his interview. I get that, Tucker is polarizing.
But, take a look at Sund’s own twitter feed.
I’m not here to defend Trump and those who participated in the riot. I don’t care about that right now.
What this guy is saying, as THE person responsible for the security of Congress… is saying something very hinky was going on from his perspective.
Lastly, @DRJ, if you hadn’t watch Tucker’s interview, Chief Sund answered:
whembly (5f7596) — 8/11/2023 @ 7:09 amWhen asked if the January 6 Committee addressed any of these issues, failures, or questions, Sund replied, “No, sir.”
Whembly —
Congress was unprepared to be stormed by angry people and the military should have known and was slow about it. Congress has not fixed the problem and indeed seems unconcerned.
Ok. I understand it’s important, but why does it supplant (because that’s what makes Tucker concentrate on this) the legal culpability of Trump for what happened?
Appalled (2ea132) — 8/11/2023 @ 7:35 amWhembly, I agree. The fact that administration officials were concerned about violence from
Time123 (7e08b7) — 8/11/2023 @ 7:41 amTrump supporters and didn’t share that concern with the DC police is a dereliction of duty. They appear to have been more concerned about angering their boss or giving him a pretext to violate the constitution. The way they handled that concern is appalling.
Blowing smoke. It sells.
nk (9fd2b3) — 8/11/2023 @ 7:50 amExample:
Water makes up 60% of human body weight. So what? Is this clown actually claiming that the military is conducting law enforcement surveillance, on Americans, in America, outside of military bases and reservations?
nk (9fd2b3) — 8/11/2023 @ 7:57 am@371
Trump’s culpability is a separate question and being worked through.
We’ve yet have had a full accounting on J6, that’s what I’m focusing on. Especially now that we know that the J6 committee explicitedly refused to investigate Pelosi. It was only a CYA and narrative setting event.
There’s too many unanswered questions.
whembly (5f7596) — 8/11/2023 @ 7:59 am@372
This is bothering me quite a bit.
J6 has been used to tar not only Trump and his supporters, but to tar Republican voters as well.
I can sorta understand the initial hesitancy (though I don’t agree with it) of NOT providing NG units with Capitol police on J6 due to “optics”. But, the absolutely refusal to approve additional resources when requested by THE CHIEF OF CAPITOL POLICE is downright appalling and to be fair, feeds this narrative that some in leadership wanted SOMETHING bad to happen that day.
I don’t know how else one could explain it? Can you come up with a rational explanation of the systemic failures?
whembly (5f7596) — 8/11/2023 @ 8:04 amZero chance whembly. Too many are to invested in the narrative to change their opinion or even objectively read contrary information. It’s become religion to some.
NJRob (a8aa4c) — 8/11/2023 @ 8:13 amNJRob,
What does the contrary information actually change? Contributory negligence in keeping the rabble out is important — why? Our country had it coming to us because madam liberty was wearing her dress too short?
Appalled (ca26e7) — 8/11/2023 @ 8:30 am“Stop me before I insurrect more!” Yeah, “some in leadership wanted SOMETHING bad to happen that day”. Their names are Donald, John, and Trump.
nk (9fd2b3) — 8/11/2023 @ 8:52 amHere’s what some British bettors are saying about our upcoming presidential election.
Jim Miller (301a58) — 8/11/2023 @ 9:13 am@378
Are you sure you’re not asset?
Did you forget to sign into the right account?
whembly (5f7596) — 8/11/2023 @ 9:14 amI am not sure if either you or I understand your question but I will attempt an answer to what I think you are concerned about.
For one, if Sund was able to stop the riot well before the perimeter of Congress, the objections to the election would have continued to have been stated and debated by congressional members, instead of being cut off. And secondly, had the riot been quelled in its infancy, there would have been a real lack of precedent for the charges that are necessary to keep Trump out of office for the rest of his life.
Even favorable ”fact-checks” make the point:
But DRUMPH!!! and TUCKER!!😡🤬!!!
BuDuh (4214e4) — 8/11/2023 @ 9:15 amTry the blocking script. I only see his poo flinging when it gets quoted by someone else. There is no serious conversation with nk like there is with DRJ.
BuDuh (4214e4) — 8/11/2023 @ 9:17 amI get it. It’s the agent provocateur scenario that won’t get Sund and Carlson sued by Ray Epps.
nk (9fd2b3) — 8/11/2023 @ 9:21 amOr, to credit asset since you mentioned him, is it “some in leadership” gave the January 6 rioters the rope by which they would hang themselves?
nk (9fd2b3) — 8/11/2023 @ 9:37 amDoes it seem strange that Garland appointed the same guy, Weiss, who approved the sweetheart deal with Hunter Biden to now be the special counsel for Hunter Biden?
whembly (5f7596) — 8/11/2023 @ 9:57 amPeople voting for Democrats will be so surprised when the grid fails and if you are lucky enough to occasionally have power your rates will skyrocket.
If you think you will get by with your own rooftop solar, know that most areas require that the solar array not provide power to the house (and therefore the local grid) if the grid is down for safety reasons. To get around this, you have to have full separation from the grid, which means that you have to provide your own battery storage for nighttime use.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/11/2023 @ 9:58 amI mean, thinking about some more, this is quite literally the exact opposite of independence and accountability.
Talk about brazen.
Joe Biden be better off to simply pardon Hunter.
whembly (5f7596) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:00 amnk (9fd2b3) — 8/11/2023 @ 6:51 am
Indeed. But as Sammy will point out, he also said “Don’t be violent!” so it’s not his fault.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:00 amI get it. It’s the agent provocateur scenario that won’t get Sund and Carlson sued by Ray Epps.
The only agent provocateur in this was Donald Trump. At best you can argue that the Deep State allowed things to proceed so that Trump would be discredited. But it was still Trump who encouraged the Proud Boys and their ilk to show up, and who sent them down to the Capitol, knowing full well their intentions. It’s not like they hid that gallows under their coat.
That Sund was not aware was on Sund. It should have been obvious and he cannot both claim it was not and that everyone else knew. He got fired over it and now he’s pissed.
Maybe they should have prevented it from happening, but exposing Trump and his plot was important, too. Hard on the Capitol Police, of course, but Sund is partly responsible for that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:10 amwhembly (5f7596) — 8/11/2023 @ 8:04 am
No, I think the planners of the storming of the Capitol had at least one mole in the Capitol police, because the intelligence assessment was altered after Jan 3 to the point of even casting doubt on whether the rally at the Ellipse was going to take place!
It’s on page 45ff of the Senate report (which doesn’t say there was a mole but give the explanation by the Capitol Police that only one person wrote that ne
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20801778-report-examining-the-jan-6-us-capitol-attack
Here’s another Senate report:
https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/230627_HSGAC-Majority-Report_Jan-6-Intel.pdfw intelligence assessment.
No member of Congress would have risked someone getting hurt – it had to be a mole.
And the Democrats on the Hill have covered that up (because they must have figured it out) to protect themselves and also because they want to blame Trump personally for the riot – and the only way they could do that was to claim that Trump’s speech caused it (while we know from many sources that it was planned in advance and besides which it’s impossible for his speech to have had that result.
I don’t know how else one could explain it? Can you come up with a rational explanation of the systemic failures?
Sammy Finkelman (7eb214) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:12 amDoes it seem strange that Garland appointed the same guy, Weiss, who approved the sweetheart deal with Hunter Biden to now be the special counsel for Hunter Biden?
I’m confused. It seems like just yesterday Weiss was the victim of DoJ interference, who was forced to agree to this deal by his bosses and the stacking of his office with Bidenista underlings.
If they had appointed someone else (a Democrat, of course) it would take months for him to get up to speed and the assumption would be that he was a shill anyway.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:15 amMeanwhile, Trump is going to have speech restrictions regarding J6 going forward.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:17 amAs I recall, it was already established that the intelligence community under Trump failed to adequately brief Capitol Police on the potential for violence and rioting…
The Capitol Police Board took responsibility and resigned, and did Mr. Sund. The rioters are also being held to account through the judicial system. What’s left are the parties who brought them there with the tease that it would be “wild”, who fomented a riot with warm-up acts such as the guy who said “trial by combat” and another who said “today is the day American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass”, and the Main Event guy who said “And we fight. We fight like Hell and if you don’t fight like Hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore,” and then didn’t lift a finger after three-plus hours of fighting.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:22 amKevin M (ed969f) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:00 am
It’s not his fault because Trump wanted to go the rally in person and he would not have had he thought he would be in the middle of a riot.
At the time of the second impeachment they were saying that Trump lied when he said he would be there but the Jan 6 committee proved that that was not true – he had to be tricked and stopped by aides from going to the Capitol.
The request to be peaceful is a weak defense. More to the point is that word “fight” as used in political speeches. was not meant, and is never meant, literally.
There’s NO WAY his speech could have caused that, and that is contradicted by the fact it was planned in advance, and if you want to say it could be anticipated why did no one watching anticipate that and warn the Capitol Police to get ready because they’re coming??
Incidentally, my second link above should be:
https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/230627_HSGAC-Majority-Report_Jan-6-Intel.pdf
Sammy Finkelman (7eb214) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:23 amFinally, Garland came around to Montagu’s thinking on the subject. It was about time.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:29 amPaul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:22 am
That’s not Trump, even though weeks before, the promoters of the protest got Trump to use the word “wild” in a tweet.
That was Giuliani just being incoherent and using the wrong words. He meant like David and Goliath – let just two people argue, as is clear from the context.
That was not said at the Ellipse.
They went through that the second impeachment and showed how often the word fight is used metaphorically
That’s a lie. He lifted a finger before that. He called on them to not attack the police,
He just wasn’t ready yet to ask them all to leave.
Sammy Finkelman (7eb214) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:32 amAnd maybe people are slowly c=beginning to come around to what I said about Joe Biden having told a tall tale when he claimed to have been instrumental in the firing of a Ukrainian prosecutor. (Putin must have thought there was no way Biden could wriggle out of that.)
I don’t know if Joe Biden an survive politically if people realize that — and I think a lot of Democrats protected him too.
Sammy Finkelman (7eb214) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:36 amTaking down names doesn’have to mean attack them,and certainly not immediately.
Sammy Finkelman (7eb214) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:38 amIt’s the Democrats who have been promoting this narrative about a three hour gap till Trump lifted a finger. In reality, he lifted a finger maybe an hour earlier. He was told that’s not enough and he has to tell them to disperse
Sammy Finkelman (7eb214) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:42 amTelling me you didn’t watch the interview…
BuDuh (743b2f) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:45 amIt was Trump’s tweet, Sammy, under his name. He owns it.
Trump was the singular person who could’ve stopped the riot, Sammy, without the National Guard going in and cracking skulls, and he fell way short until his tweet video, three-plus hours later.
“I’m leaning more and more to Garland appointing a Special Counsel, Kevin. There’s always one more revelation that keeps coming out. Most of them don’t hold water (like Comer’s ridiculous claim that DOJ was going to jail Archer to prevent him from testifying, or anything from Comer for that matter), but there are enough to justify a more independent look-through.”
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:46 am–Paul Montagu, 7/31/2023
The intelligence community that has “six ways from Sunday at getting back at you”?
BuDuh (743b2f) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:50 amSee Whembly’s 7:00 AM.
The National Guard could have done a lot. And done it sooner without skull cracking.
Plus, who cares if a police attacking rioter gets his skull cracked?
BuDuh (743b2f) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:55 amWhembly, other rational explanations for not sharing concerns include
-Not wanting to anger Trump or MAGA by implying they would be dangerous and violent.
-concerns that it would be leaked to the media.
-concerns that it would create esclation.
-concerns about the optics of having a large force ensuring order.
The idea that ppl wanted something to happen in order to tarnish Trump and his support isn’t supported by any evidence I’m aware of.
Time123 (40217c) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:55 am9/11 called, they want their Truther arguments back.
BuDuh (743b2f) — 8/11/2023 @ 10:58 amTo clarify my 10:55:
“Plus, who cares if a rioter, that is attacking police, gets his skull cracked?”
BuDuh (743b2f) — 8/11/2023 @ 11:02 amTo be clear, I’m not asserting any of those. I have no evidence to support them. The question whembly asked was if there were other explanations beyond what he’d suggested.
Adding in case anyone other then Buduh was confused.
Time123 (40217c) — 8/11/2023 @ 12:07 pmTrump spent two months before the election telling his wackos that it was going to be rigged and stolen. Then he spent two months after the election telling them that it was rigged and stolen. Then he gathered the most agitated ones in Washington DC, pointed at the Capitol, and said “Sic em, Fidos!”
That’s what happened.
nk (9fd2b3) — 8/11/2023 @ 6:51 am
This. All day long.
Those who place the blame elsewhere are falling prey to their own biases, and still can’t see Trump for the monster that he is. Neither can they fully appreciate the damage he has done.
And before you accuse me of bias, note that I voted for Trump in 2016. I’ve been on both sides of the fence. How many here can say that?
Tucker is a really good propagandist. He gets people to fall for his conspiratorial drama. That’s how he gets eyeballs. You don’t build a devoted following just talking about standard conservative fare. No sir. You need twists and hot takes, and Tucker has those in spades.
norcal (9f3b00) — 8/11/2023 @ 2:00 pmWhy would anyone do that?
Oh…
Maybe Sund’s tweets and book, that are independent of your Tucker fear, will prevail to your un-biased side?
It is a quite compelling interview but I understand the desire to not watch it while commenting about it.
BuDuh (a33506) — 8/11/2023 @ 2:07 pmBuDuh (a33506) — 8/11/2023 @ 2:07 pm
I don’t need to chase every thrown ball to know who to blame for J6.
If you want to play fetch with Tucker, knock yourself out.
norcal (9f3b00) — 8/11/2023 @ 2:14 pm*******
Hmmmm.
BuDuh (a33506) — 8/11/2023 @ 2:20 pmLike I said, I’ve been on both sides of the Trump fence.
norcal (9f3b00) — 8/11/2023 @ 2:24 pm“There is danger for him who taketh the tiger cub, and danger also for whoso snatches a delusion from a Trumper.” — Sherlock Holmes (paraphrased)
nk (4b634a) — 8/11/2023 @ 2:25 pmnk (4b634a) — 8/11/2023 @ 2:25 pm
😂
I used to think that “cult” was a bit strong. Not anymore.
norcal (9f3b00) — 8/11/2023 @ 2:33 pmThe tweet was not the main thing that said something would be wild. The website was called wildprotest.com
Sammy Finkelman (3ccf43) — 8/11/2023 @ 4:04 pmhttp://web.archive.org/web/20210106005050/https://wildprotest.com
While it says “Capitol lawn and steps” in the explanatory portion, it says in the illustration that is supposed to be on the Northeast Drive.
A New York Times article some time later said the rally did take place, but was dominated by anti-vaccination speakers.
See here:
https://patterico.com/2021/06/08/senate-report-on-jan-6-events-at-u-s-capitol-widespread-and-unacceptable-breakdowns-in-intelligence-gathering/
This post is from the point of view that Trump was the brains behind all of that/
Sammy Finkelman (3ccf43) — 8/11/2023 @ 4:09 pmThere were it seems 9 permits fr=or 9 rallies each of which was supposed to have no more than 50 people there because of Covid restrictions..
Sammy Finkelman (3ccf43) — 8/11/2023 @ 4:10 pmwhrmbly,
Do you think I am missing something? Maybe I am, but it seems like you and Sund believe the military knew there would be violence and hid it from Sund. That made it hard for him to respond appropriately.
I wouldn’t argue with that, but my feeling is that the military acted that way because it’s information came from Trump and his people, not from intelligence or security sources. That would have impaired their ability to share information with anyone.
DRJ (95ee8b) — 8/11/2023 @ 4:51 pm@whembly IDK of you remember, but I was extremely bothered by the lack of national guard response at the time. It was because Trump had ordered that no one but himself or the secretary of the Army could approve deploying the national guard to aid the Capitola and for some reason they were not available to take calls from the commander of the DC national guard. For some reason.
Nic (896fdf) — 8/11/2023 @ 5:04 pmThe interview Whembly posted is just under an hour long.
BuDuh (a33506) — 8/11/2023 @ 5:16 pmSorry. I meant to distinguish that the quotes are from two separate commenters.
BuDuh (a33506) — 8/11/2023 @ 5:18 pmC’mon, Sammy. Trump invited MAGA Nation to show up, by his own tweet, under his own name. He owns that.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/11/2023 @ 5:53 pmOr “wild” like the video I posted at 10:50AM? Cause that was wild..
BuDuh (a33506) — 8/11/2023 @ 6:00 pm55 min 20 seconds. Are you suggesting I did not listen to it?
DRJ (95ee8b) — 8/11/2023 @ 8:01 pmLet me be more specific in my answer.
The people and entities that Sund complained about — the military, the national guard, the FBI — were controlled by the executive department. The White House.
Maybe every law enforcement and military leader put their career on the line and independently decided the “optics” were bad and they would not go to the Capitol.
But my view is that they wanted to respond, as Sund claimed they told him, but were prevented by the military UNDER THE DIRECTION OF THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF, a person who makes every decision based on “optics.” That is what makes sense to me.
DRJ (95ee8b) — 8/11/2023 @ 8:11 pmFWIW I think Tucker Carlson is a good interviewer but he needs to stop giggling.
DRJ (95ee8b) — 8/11/2023 @ 8:28 pm@DRJ
If you can show me that the military was prohibited by POTUS, by all means.
I’ve yet seen any articulable rationale that points to Trump as the reason why it took until 6pm for NG to show up on the grounds.
None of this makes sense.
Maybe the simplest answer is government incompetence? Maybe they were held hostage to indecision that day. But, I’m not sure I buy it though.
Sunds was waiting for Congressional leadership authorization (Pelosi) and that took 71 minutes. During which there were shots fired (at Ashley Babbit). You’d have to think that any and all resources would be eager to go help the Capitol police by then. But, why did it take the NG till 6pm to arrive?
Again, there’s way too many hinky crap here.
From leadership’s apparent indecision… to WTF is the masked pipe-bomber… to how much Democrats milked the narrative that seemed overwrought.
Hinky bidness I say… hinky…
whembly (ce9c93) — 8/11/2023 @ 8:30 pm@Whembly@428 Trump had direct personal command over the DC national guard. He never told them to go.
Other than Trump, who could have told them to deploy at any time, they had to get approval from the Sec of the Army who needed approval from the SecDef. There was a conference call at 2:30 involving Sund (capitol police), Gen Walker (commander of the DC nat guard), and the mayor of DC all asking for the deployment of the national guard from the Pentagon. The Secretary of the Army left the call to go ask permission from the Sec Def and didn’t manage to convey permission for another 3 hrs.
There was a second ongoing call among the Pentagon and Walker
At some point it was the SecDef who approved the Nat Guard to go and Walker was told at 5:09 PM.
Nic (896fdf) — 8/11/2023 @ 11:45 pmSo people appointed by and working for Trump sat on their hands while Trump’s Bubba Battalions rampaged through the Capitol, but it was a diabolical GOVERNMENT PLOT to interrupt Ted Cruz’s and Josh Hawley’s objections to the Electoral Vote Count.
Grasping at straws? No. Running on fumes. For a long time, now, Trump and his supporters both.
nk (91504e) — 8/12/2023 @ 5:29 amI don’t need to. All you need to know is there was NO ORDER from the Commander in Chief. It was his job, his authority, his decision, and he did not order it.
Staff and even his family pleaded with him to stop it for 187 minutes (see where that 3 hours and 19 minutes comes from?). He would not because he was enjoying it. He was glued to the TV watching his supporters storm the Capitol, even rewinding parts to watch again and again.
Stop supporting this evil.
DRJ (95ee8b) — 8/12/2023 @ 9:07 amMy guess is he never ordered it and a military leader did it on his own. Trump would never end a good TV show about him.
DRJ (95ee8b) — 8/12/2023 @ 9:09 amIn other words, while I don’t know what happened that day, I believe the information gathered by the Jan 6 committee that was based on testimony from the people who were there. I believe the SecDef issued the order without Trump’s permission as he claimed. I believe Sund and all the other law enforcement/military were pleading for help. I believe the White House sources that said Trump sat watching and enjoying the Capitol attack.
DRJ (95ee8b) — 8/12/2023 @ 9:16 amThe only thing hinky that day was Trump. Everyone else was overwhelmed with an unthinkable situation — an attempted coup and a President who wanted it to happen.
DRJ (5c122f) — 8/12/2023 @ 9:25 amHi Whembly,
Seems like DRJ took apart your argument in the last four posts. Do you have thoughts?
Appalled (5c57a7) — 8/12/2023 @ 10:42 amI don’t know about “coup” though. “Putsch” seems more accurate. I’m more worried about the fire next time.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/12/2023 @ 10:44 amI believe the SecDef issued the order without Trump’s permission as he claimed.
When the poor “l’yddle” tyke was all tuckered out from watching TV, munching M&Ms, and guzzling Diet Coke, and went for his afternoon nap.
Excellent analysis, DRJ. I agree with everything you wrote.
nk (91504e) — 8/12/2023 @ 10:46 amHow did Sund describe the authorization procedure for that day?
BuDuh (a33506) — 8/12/2023 @ 1:10 pmExcellent analysis, DRJ. It doesn’t look like anybody is going to refute it.
I find it so amusing that people will grasp at anything, anything, rather than place the blame for J6 where it squarely belongs.
It must hurt too much to admit they were wrong about Trump.
norcal (a1ddc8) — 8/12/2023 @ 1:52 pmMake whatever point you want to make, Buduh. I think you know I will listen to it.
DRJ (988f2a) — 8/12/2023 @ 3:48 pmMy view is that Sund felt the process was chaotic and he was excluded from the intelligence.
DRJ (988f2a) — 8/12/2023 @ 3:49 pmIntelligence is always challenging. After the event, it’s easy to say “Here are the facts that mattered and people knew about them but we weren’t told.” It is easy to know what facts were important afterward, but taking a wealth of information and deciding what matters and what doesn’t before anything has happened is hard.
Maybe other agencies shared important intelligence, but Sund’s intelligence people missed or discounted it. Maybe other agencies discounted the intelligence and never shared it. Maybe the Capitol Police were intentionally excluded. I can’t say. But the Capitol Police had to change its processes after Sund left:
DRJ (95ee8b) — 8/12/2023 @ 4:20 pmSund said in the Carlson interview that they thought this would be another MAGA event like past demonstrations. I think he was talking about a MAGA – BLM protest, but I am not sure. So he expected some violence but not what they got. I think that is the intelligence failure the reforms are aimed at fixing, and Sund was trying to explain.
DRJ (95ee8b) — 8/12/2023 @ 4:23 pmThis is what happens when the Commander-in-Chief completely checks out and doesn’t lift a finger in the middle of a riot that involved the storming of the US Capitol.
The chain of command is President > SecDef > SecArmy > Commander of National Guard. Because the president communicated exactly nothing to Miller or Gen. McCarthy or Walker on that day, it fell to Acting SecDef (who was “Acting” because Trump sacked SecDef Esper right after the election) to take matters into his own hands.
Why there was so much dicking around between SecDef and SecArmy for 86 minutes during an unprecedented riot still defies explanation. Also, Miller’s mobilization order was over an hour after Sund requested NG support, but the DCNG didn’t arrive at the scene until 5:40pm, well after the worst of the violence already happened.
Also, if the situation was so urgent, why didn’t Miller call the NG Commander directly? He’s the Secretary of Defense fer cryin’ out loud. “Disconncected” and “slow rolled” is an understatement.
Of course, none of this would’ve happened had the Commander-in-Chief ordered the NG to deploy to the Capitol right after his speech to stop the insurrection. All this inaction and incompetence was under Trump’s watch, and therefore his responsibility, but all that happened to hold Trump to account for his shiddy conduct was a lousy impeachment, until the Jack Smith indictment.
BTW, the latest RCP average has Trump at 54.2% for the GOP nomination. Effing A.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 8/12/2023 @ 4:28 pm#442
Excellent point, DRJ. (Makes me wonder whether you have read this classic.)
Jim Miller (f497eb) — 8/12/2023 @ 4:30 pmNo, Jim, but I remember reading an excerpt in a college history course. My professor was a fan of the author and, I think, had worked with her before teaching. Not sure where.
DRJ (95ee8b) — 8/12/2023 @ 4:41 pmPaul,
This is no excuse but there may have been Chiefs of Staffs and lawyers in every office telling their bosses they couldn’t do anything without the proper orders from their superiors — all the way up the chain of command.
DRJ (95ee8b) — 8/12/2023 @ 4:48 pmThere may have ben special concerns about orders from an Acting Sec Def.
DRJ (95ee8b) — 8/12/2023 @ 5:54 pmTrummp’s tweet:
This tweet was sent in the early AM hours after Sidney Powell and Mike Flynn had been let in to see President Trump on December 18, 2020 and his staff argued with them.. Mike Flynn was calling for the impounding of voting machines under the guise of martial law.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/19/politics/trump-oval-office-meeting-special-counsel-martial-law/index.html
It is speculated they also told him about the rally in DC Jan 6 that they wanted him to promote because he left that tweet some time after the meeting,
They must have suggested he use the word “wild” in it.. Trump used it incoherently.
Sammy Finkelman (7fe9a9) — 8/13/2023 @ 10:49 amThis seems to be the case with the lack f preparation for the fire in Lahaina, Hawaii, including ignoring predictions, the general warning siren not going off despite being tested monthly, and the fire hydrants running out of water..
It’s been said that President Biden wants to avoid calling any attention to the fire.
I can’t see any reason except for the possibility that he appointed someone incompetent to some position for political reasons… Still the main fault would lie with the state government of Hawaii.
:
Sammy Finkelman (9be9b1) — 8/14/2023 @ 9:15 am