Patterico's Pontifications

6/8/2021

Senate Report On Jan. 6 Events At U.S. Capitol: ‘Widespread and Unacceptable Breakdowns in Intelligence Gathering’

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:17 am



[guest post by Dana]

Massive communication breakdown:

The U.S. Capitol Police had specific intelligence that supporters of President Donald Trump planned to mount an armed invasion of the Capitol at least two weeks before the Jan. 6 riot, according to new findings in a bipartisan Senate investigation, but a series of omissions and miscommunications kept that information from reaching front-line officers targeted by the violence.

A joint report, from the Senate Rules and Administration and the Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs committees, outlines the most detailed public timeline to date of the communications and intelligence failures that led the Capitol Police and partner agencies to prepare for the “Stop the Steal” protest as though it were a routine Trump rally, instead of the organized assault that was planned in the open online.

Released Tuesday, the report shows how an intelligence arm of the Capitol Police disseminated security assessments labeling the threat of violence “remote” to “improbable,” even as authorities collected evidence showing that pro-Trump activists intended to bring weapons to the demonstration and “storm the Capitol.”

“There were significant, widespread and unacceptable breakdowns in the intelligence gathering … The failure to adequately assess the threat of violence on that day contributed significantly to the breach of the Capitol,” Sen. Gary Peters, D-Mich., chairman of the Homeland Security panel, told reporters. “The attack was, quite frankly, planned in plain sight.”

The report states that the authorities knew as early as Dec. 21 that not good things were in the works:

According to the report, Capitol Police intelligence officers knew as early as Dec. 21 that protesters planned to “bring guns” and other weapons to the Jan. 6 demonstration and turn them on any law enforcement officers who blocked their entry into the Capitol. They knew that would-be rioters were sharing maps of the Capitol campus online and discussing the building’s best entry points — and how to seal them off to trap lawmakers inside. But that information was shared only with command officers.

A separate security assessment dated Dec. 23 made no mention of those findings. Neither did a follow-up Dec. 30.

Ultimately:

The report faults slow mobilization and poor interdepartmental communication — not any sort of stand-down order from the White House, as some Trump critics had speculated — for the fact that it took the National Guard more than three hours to respond to pleas for help from the Capitol during the attack. According to its findings, it was Army staff — not Trump — expressing early reservations about a military intervention, while the Army secretary claimed he was never informed that the D.C. National Guard had a quick reaction force “ready to go” to the Capitol, just awaiting his approval.

[Ed. I really wanted to bold all of the text because the whole thing is so damning, but I opted to use a bit of self-restraint…]

Anyway, it makes sense that Trump’s role is not examined in the report, given that neither side would ever be able to agree on any specific descriptions of the former president and his actions. But certainly, that’s problematic:

But at the same time, there are several glaring omissions in the report, including any examination of Donald Trump’s role in the riots, raising questions about whether lawmakers, in their quest for bipartisanship, exposed the limits of a Congress divided and unable to agree on certain truths, particularly those related to the former President’s actions. Sources tell CNN that in order for this report, which was compiled by the Senate Homeland Security and Rules committees, to have support from both parties, the language had to be carefully crafted, and that included excluding the word “insurrection,” which notably does not appear outside of witness quotes and footnotes. “Did we look at Trump’s role in the attack? The answer is no,” a Senate committee aide told reporters. “The report did not attempt to look at the origins and development of the groups or individuals that participated in the attack on the Capitol,” the aide said.

Without examining the origins and development of the groups involved, as well as who influenced and steered rioters in the direction they went, the report lacks vital information that could help prevent another insurrection from happening in the future. Perhaps in 2024, if you know who runs and loses the election. Again.

–Dana

62 Responses to “Senate Report On Jan. 6 Events At U.S. Capitol: ‘Widespread and Unacceptable Breakdowns in Intelligence Gathering’”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (fd537d)

  2. The exclusion of Trump’s role and the circumstances that brought thousands to the Capitol are but one more reason for a full-scale investigation by a bipartisan commission.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  3. While I agree, Paul, do you think that such an investigation would be any different at the end of the day? Would any Retrumplicans on the commission be willing to say what very well might need to be said? I think in order for said commission to be effective, there would have to be an effort to carefully make sure that no Trump loyalists were on board, and I don’t see how that would work given the makeup of the Republican Party leadership (save for a few individuals).

    Dana (fd537d)

  4. The U.S. Capitol Police had specific intelligence that supporters of President Donald Trump planned to mount an armed invasion of the Capitol at least two weeks before the Jan. 6 riot,

    There’s always the problem of predicting 11 of the last 3 recessions. And I think they didn’t specifically mention where they wanted to go wild. Nor was there any clue as to the numbers of people intent on causing mayhem that might come to Washington.

    What there was a history of, was certain groups fighting with counter demonstrators. So what the mayor of Washington, D.C. and others did was mostly successfully appeal to people not to counter demonstrate. And a few people were arrested before because of gun violations etc.

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/8/2021 @ 9:26 am

    The exclusion of Trump’s role and the circumstances that brought thousands to the Capitol

    It was obvious and understood a lot of people were coming to Washington, D.C. and this was not even the first time people in support of stolen election claims came after Nov. 3, 2020. And in fact it wasn’t the large crowd that caused trouble. It was a smaller group.

    The demonstration at the Capitol was expected to be peaceful. The trouble was expected elsewhere.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  5. I think it is possible that they thought it would be enough rope to hang Trump, so allowed it to go on, but miscalculated. His followers thought the insurrection was feature, not a bug.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  6. Senators: WHO shot and killed Ashli Babbitt?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  7. It’s pretty hard to have a serious bipartisan investigation when one of the parties is rather openly committed to the narrative of “Nothing to see here. Trump did nothing wrong. His supporters are the victims.”

    If a bipartisan investigation were done where the R. side included no Trump loyalists, all the Trumpsters would see a Deep State plot against “patriotic Americans” and would seek to punish the “traitors.”

    It’s the natural result of the cult-worship of someone who understands Truth and Justice in self-serving terms, and then all the cult-followers adopt the same definitions of Truth and Justice and think they’re fighting a valiant crusade against deeply entrenched forces of evil.

    Radegunda (ca133c)

  8. an intelligence arm of the Capitol Police disseminated security assessments labeling the threat of violence “remote” to “improbable,

    It’s not enough to say they were wrong, you have to go into why they were wrong.

    Just calling them names, like “incompetent” is not of any value.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  9. an intelligence arm of the Capitol Police disseminated security assessments labeling the threat of violence “remote” to “improbable,

    It’s not enough to say they were wrong, you have to go into why they were wrong.

    Just saying something that amounts to calling them names, like “incompetent” is not of any value.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  10. His followers thought the insurrection was feature, not a bug.

    On one side are the highbrow Trumpers saying “How dare you call it in insurrection! Those were patriotic Americans who wanted to make their voices heard and raise serious concerns!”

    On the other side are the zealots — the Oath Keepers, Three Percenters, et al. — saying “It’s time for a civil war!”

    Then there are the Trumper “intellectuals” who take both positions: “It’s slander to say that Trump supporters were violent. They are being persecuted merely for supporting Trump! Oh, and a real military coup might be necessary to defeat the nefarious Democrats.”

    Radegunda (ca133c)

  11. Senators: WHO shot and killed Ashli Babbitt?

    Some hero.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  12. n intelligence arm of the Capitol Police disseminated security assessments labeling the threat of violence “remote” to “improbable,

    It’s not enough to say they were wrong, you have to go into why they were wrong.

    I don’t think that they underestimated the Trumpkins, who are by and large overfed and overaged sissy-boys who could not fight their way out of a wet paper bag. I think they overestimated the ability of the Capitol Police to deal with even such second-rate losers.

    nk (1d9030)

  13. @11. WHO?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  14. “It’s time for a civil war!”

    People who say this really mean: “It’s time for indiscriminate robbery, rape and slaughter.” Not that they’d have a problem with that as no one likes them anyway.

    The truth of the matter is that Trump’s deepest support comes from truly twisted people.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  15. @11. WHO?

    Who’s on first.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  16. Prosecute Trump and stuff him into a Supermax. You really cannot reason with a personality cult.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  17. That is all 20-20 hindsight. You need something better than that.

    Here is a link to the press release and the report itself:

    https://www.rules.senate.gov/news/press-releases/peters-portman-klobuchar-blunt-release-bipartisan-report-investigating-january-6th-capitol-attack

    https://www.rules.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/Jan%206%20HSGAC%20Rules%20Report.pdf

    Appendix B, at the end, is a transcript of Trump
    s speech at the Ellipse.

    From, the report:

    [Steven Sund, the US Capitol Police Chief] has stated that in a January 5 meeting with USCP leadership, members of the Capitol Police Board, and officials from the FBI, U.S. Secret Service, and DCNG, no entity “provided any intelligence indicating that there would be a coordinated violent attack on the United States Capitol by thousands of well-equipped armed insurrectionists.”

    If they had said so, they would have been wrong as it is doubtful whether there were more 100 or 200 well equipped insurrectionists. Less than 1,000 people participated in any way. So the hindsight, soon after, wasn’t even so good.

    This whole report is a first draft.

    5 MPD warned, “it looks like we are going to have another big First Amendment demo on January 6th similar to the November 14th and December 12th events” and noted that permit applications had already been submitted.226

    they anticipated a repeat of November 14th and December 12th. Someone, on on January 3 did predict the possibility (saying “the threat of disruptive actions or violence cannot be ruled out.” (bottom of page 44 going over to top of page 45)

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  18. nk (1d9030) — 6/8/2021 @ 10:16 am

    I think they overestimated the ability of the Capitol Police to deal with even such second-rate losers.

    I think they didn’t consider the possibility that there might be an organized conspiracy to storm the Capitol.

    They didn’t predict it because maybe they didn’t have enough information indicating such a thing.

    The Senate report tries to show that they had such information, but it doesn’t show it.

    A Parler post on December 19, (two and a half weeks before)

    stating, in substance, “Occupy DC, Congress, SCOTUS, WH.

    isn’t it, and besides that it gave a whole bunch of targets.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  19. Memo to Xi and Vlad:

    So what have you learned since 2000, fellas?

    A. The multi-trillion dollar U.S. military could be outsmarted by 19 guys [they hailed from four countries; fifteen of them were citizens of American ally Saudi Arabia, two were from the UAE, one was from Lebanon, and one from Egypt] w/just $500,000, some boxcutters and imaginative thinking.

    B. 20 years after 9/11, the U.S. Capitol is guarded by the Keystone Cops and is easily breached by a crowd of Chaplins, Keatons and Lloyds.

    C. Klever Komputer Kids w/$5 thumb drives loaded w/malware can bring American society to its knees–or a dead stop.

    D. A forgetful old white man and a feckless, mixed race woman who has ‘never been to Europe’ are your competitors.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  20. @10 strawman flash mob

    JF (e1156d)

  21. Some hero.

    Officer McHoagie???

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  22. During the event, every news anchor spoke of the “insurrection” and many used words like “sedition” and “treason”, clearly saying that those inside the Capitol were attempting to prevent the transfer of power, and blaming it all on Trump.

    Afterwards, a number of GOP leaders started to come out against Trump, thinking that this would be the final straw. Then their phones started to ring and their backers told them to get behind Trump.

    (Trump has little power of his own, it all is indirect through grass roots.)

    I really do think that this attack was expected, and was allowed to happen, to kick Trump out of the political square.

    Didn’t work, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t trying.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  23. King George on the transfer of power:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAgwoLO0S-4

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  24. Marcy Wheeler has some other questions like, even though they were charged with protecting the VP and VP-elect in the Capitol on that day, why the near-complete silence from the Secret Service. The USCP chief requested help at 1pm, and that’s all we hear about.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  25. While I agree, Paul, do you think that such an investigation would be any different at the end of the day?

    I dunno, Dana, and I don’t know how much sway the Dems have in the appointing of Republican commission members. It’s just that, if we can have full-throated committees in both houses investigating Benghazi, we should have something for an insurrection that, for the first time in our history, disrupted the peaceful transfer of power.
    Either way, the Dems should get an investigation going ASAP, no matter what. They won’t be in power for long if they keep own-goaling with nonsense like “birthing persons”.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  26. I really do think that this attack was expected, and was allowed to happen, to kick Trump out of the political square.

    Do you have evidence of this or is it more of a hunch.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  27. HCD Jan 3: From the Senate report

    The Stop the Steal protest in particular does not have a permit,

    But all the reporting since then has been consistent in saying that it did! And that the permit was obtained by a man named Ali Alexander. (there was no permit for a procession from the Ellipse to the Capitol.)

    It is missing from a list published on January 5:
    https://www.washingtonian.com/2021/01/05/heres-what-we-know-about-the-pro-trump-rallies-that-have-permits

    ….Here are the stationary events to which the National Park Service has issued permits so far:

    Mother Jones says there was a permit, but it didn’t cover the location mentioned on the wildprotest.com web site:

    https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2021/01/sponsors-of-the-pre-attack-rally-have-taken-down-their-websites-dont-forget-who-they-were

    Wild Protest. It is unclear exactly what Wild Protest is—or was—and who was behind it. A website called WildProtest.com promoted the rally and the subsequent march to Capitol Hill, referencing Trump’s statement that this day would be “wild.” The site—which said it was “brought to you by Stop the Steal and its coalition leaders”—declared, “We the People must take to the US Capitol lawn and steps and tell Congress #DoNotCertify on #JAN6! Congress cannot certify this fraudulent Electoral College. Our presence in Washington D.C. will let Members of Congress know that we stand with Rep. Mo Brooks and his colleagues in the House of Representatives who will bravely object to the certification of the Electoral College.” (The permit issued for the rally did not cover the Capitol lawn and steps.) After the deadly assault, the website was taken down.

    But I retrieved it from the memory hole:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20210106005050/https://wildprotest.com

    Whle it says “Capitil lawn and steps” in the explanatory portion, it says in the illustration that is supposed to be on the Northeast Drive.

    A New York Times article some time later said the rally did take place, but was dominated by anti-vaccination speakers.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  28. Senators: WHO shot and killed Ashli Babbitt?

    That’s the worst-kept secret since the whistleblower on the Trump-Zelensky call. His name is Michael Leroy Byrd, and there’s a picture of him here.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  29. * Capitol lawn and steps I don;t know how they relates to the NE Drive.

    I think there was probably an excellently executed deception operation (like, lehavdil, Operation Fortitude to misdirect the Germans about the location of the D-Day landing during World War II.

    But I don’t think anyone in the the Oath Keepers, Three Percenters, etc would be good enough needed to pull this off successfully. So I think there was some planning by Russian intelligence.

    Vladimir Putin is both smart or educated enough in KGB tradecraft to plan this and also stupid enough to think it could keep Donald Trump in power. I also think Mike Flynn is a Russian agent.

    http://www.elephant.org.il/translate/translating-the-hebrew-lhavdil-lehavdil-into-english

    Lehavdil is a word that maybe ought to be added to English. So I am creating a citation that may be given to the Oxford English dictionary.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  30. @10 strawman flash mob
    JF (e1156d) — 6/8/2021 @ 10:38 am

    Where’s the straw man? I was giving a fair summary of arguments I have actually seen coming from the Trump-loyal commentariat and the Trumpy zealots who participated in storming the Capitol.

    Most of the Trumper “intellectuals” are trying to paint all the Trump supporters who invaded the Capitol as innocent victims of political persecution. They won’t admit that the man they’ve been lionizing as a stalwart super-patriot and moral hero incited the first-ever attempt to block the peaceful transfer of power in the nation’s history.

    Some Trumper “intellectuals,” meanwhile, have taken a “by any means necessary” stance in their campaign against leftists and Democrats generally — broaching the idea that a military coup might be needed or that civil war is already upon us but “real Americans” haven’t really begun to fight back.

    There are super-Trumpy publications where both ideas have appeared. Some Trumpy writers and commentators have hinted (if not outright said) that the electoral process is taking us in the wrong direction, so more drastic action may be needed.

    There is not an impermeable barrier separating the Three Percenters and Oath Keepers who expected Trump to invoke the Insurrection Act and call them to take up arms against the “traitors” from the Trumpy commentators who view every public official who did not contrive to keep Trump in the presidency as corrupt agents of the swampy Deep State. They all want the same thing: Rule by Donald J. Trump without the normal institutional restraints.

    Radegunda (ca133c)

  31. WHO shot and killed Ashli Babbitt?

    The urgent question posed by the very same people who are appalled when the name and image of a white cop who shot a black man are publicized. “They’re just painting a target on his back!”

    Radegunda (ca133c)

  32. 2.The exclusion of Trump’s role and the circumstances that brought thousands to the Capitol are but one more reason for a full-scale investigation by a bipartisan commission.

    Pfft.

    The other reason: did Oswald really act alone.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  33. @31. But he’s a “hero.”

    Which, in Scranton, Wilmington– and Philly suburbs– is just a sandwich.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  34. 19. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/8/2021 @ 10:37 am

    The multi-trillion dollar U.S. military could be outsmarted by 19 guys

    19 gus just executed the plan ad they didn;t outmart them. The organization was biger.

    I think the United States was outsmarted by Pakistan’s rogue military Intelligence agency, the ISI (the inter Services Intelligence Agency) – which is about to do it again and cause a South Vietnamese style debacle in Afghanistan approximately a month from now. (Joe Biden knows it: He’s sending an aircraft carrier to the Arabian Sea so that the helicopters evacuating the American embassy in Kabul will have some place to land and take off from.)

    Pakistan’s military may not be up to U.S. standards, but its intelligence agency is world class.

    Osama bin Laden’s main role was vetting the men to do it – and also supplying some technical expertise about buildings.

    B. 20 years after 9/11, the U.S. Capitol is guarded by the Keystone Cops and is easily breached by a crowd of Chaplins, Keatons and Lloyds.

    Nah. The deception operation was world class there, and probably came from Russia.

    C. Klever Komputer Kids w/$5 thumb drives loaded w/malware can bring American society to its knees–or a dead stop.

    Things are not yet that interconnected and the malware is written by experts and stolen from the U.S. government.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  35. Vice Presidents who had “been to Europe” in the modern era since 1945:
    Truman, Barkley, Nixon, Johnson, Humphrey, Agnew, Ford, Rockefeller, Mondale, Bush, Quayle, Gore, Cheney, Biden, Pence.

    Vice President who has not: Harris.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  36. @34. 3,000 dead would disagree;
    the clowns over ran the Keystone Cops;
    tell that to Sony: the world can be brought to its knees by Bart Simpson and a thumb drive.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  37. For those complaining that we need a commission… why doesn’t Democrats just use existing committees to do just that? What’s stopping democrats?

    It’s not unusual to go at this alone… just look at the GOP’s Benghazi hearing. GOP went alone in this investigation even in the face of Democrats/Media condemnations.

    I’ll take a stab as to why…

    Because it wasn’t an insurrection, not in a sense as to what that term means. If you have to massage your arguments to justify the events on 1/6 as an insurrection, then you’re intentionally being inflammatory. And you wonder why there are a large, not-insignificant number of GOP voters who won’t engage in such investigation? When the entire premise is viewed as faulty?

    Furthermore, I suspect some Democrat leadership denied additional manpower for 1/6 and don’t want the investigation to shine a spotlight there.

    Outside of one specific event, where Ashely Babbit was killed for playing stupid games, the mob on 1/6 wasn’t much different than the mobs during the Kavanaugh or Barrett hearing.

    I was politically active during the Clinton years… and I lived through Democrat shenanigans after 2000 (selected, not elected), in 2004 (Diebold Diebold!!, media didn’t call election until Kerry conceded much later), in 2016 (Russia hacked the election for Trump!), I simply cannot get too upset over GOP or Trump’s post-election activities. It’s par for the course really and hypocrisy really flows both ways.

    Lastly, Democrats SHOULD conduct investigations via standing committees and if they were really serious about it, it should’ve started already.

    It’s telling that they haven’t done so yet.

    Ask yourself why…

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  38. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/8/2021 @ 11:42 am

    @34. 3,000 dead would disagree;

    I didn’t say the multi-trillion dollar U.S. military wasn’t outsmarted – although the defeat looked like it was more than it was – after the 4th airplane crashed, they’d shot their bolt – I said it wasn’t done by 19 guys. There were more people involved.

    And I said the military (and others were outsmarted by Pakistan’s rogue military Intelligence agency, the ISI (the Inter Services Intelligence Agency) and that they’re about to outsmart Joe Biden – although perhaps you would say that’s not saying much.

    Besides Biden already is preparing for the contingency of an emergency evacuation of U.S. personnel from Kabul, although that is probably pursuant to military advice and his caution. He actually knows what is going to happen unless something intervenes but is betting the opposite – politics.

    the clowns over ran the Keystone Cops;

    Not clowns, although many of the foot soldiers were clowns. Again, the cops weren’t so stupid – the Capitol was the target of a world class deception operation probably only possible with Russian coaching through the Base (al Qaeda for Christians)

    https://www.hedayahcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/2021MAR2_CARR-Hedayah-Project-US-Country-Report_Final.pdf

    On 5 April 2020, the Russian Imperial Movement was listed as a ‘Specially Designated Global Terrorist’ group by the US State Department, the first time a white supremacist group was placed on this list. This shift in policy is compounded by the rise of transnational, digitally-anchored, radical right `accelerationist’ organisations founded and operating on behalf of an American constituency, such as Atomwaffen Division and the Base, with the leader of the latter apparently also based in Russia.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/8/2021 @ 11:42 am

    tell that to Sony: the world can be brought to its knees by Bart Simpson and a thumb drive.

    Those were world class North Korean mathematicians/computer scientists trained in China.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  39. For those complaining that we need a commission… why doesn’t Democrats just use existing committees to do just that? What’s stopping democrats?

    I think that question should be turned around, as in, why would Republicans oppose a commission with an equal number of members? There will be an investigation no matter what.
    To me, the political answer is easy. Dems are confident that a bipartisan commission will nail Trump, so they’d rather have Trump nailed on a bipartisan basis than by a Dem-led committee. McConnell is also confident that a bipartisan commission will nail Trump, so it would be better for Trump not to be nailed on a bipartisan basis because that would impede his chances of regaining his job as Majority Leader. Better for McConnell have it in Dem-led committees and then cry foul, that it’s a partisan witch-hunt or hoax or something.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  40. whembly (ae0eb5) — 6/8/2021 @ 12:42 pm

    why doesn’t Democrats just use existing committees to do just that? What’s stopping democrats?

    Speaker Nancy Pelosi doesn’t have the votes either to create a special committee or to fund a regular committee investigation. She only has a 4-vote majority. And some Democratic Congressmen are concerned about credibility.

    There’s also maybe that an investigation would run into bad decisions by the Democratic leadership – in which case she might be maneuvering for an investigation not to happen.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  41. @39 To turn it around again, I think it’s the faulty premise of the accusation, that it was an insurrection designed to overthrow the government.

    That’s how Democrats want to present this. They want to hang 1/6 onto the GOP like a political albatross.

    If that’s the premise, then the answer isn’t to accept that premise and not be a part of the investigation. Let the Democrat investigate it, and own it.

    If Democrats approached this in good faith, maybe something good can come out of it. But, if they’re only looking to use it as a political cudgel, then why should Republican play that game?

    I don’t know about you, but I refuse to play the Bend Over™ game while Democrats/Media play the political version of calvinball.

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  42. 37. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/8/2021 @ 12:55 pm

    I think that question should be turned around, as in, why would Republicans oppose a commission with an equal number of members? There will be an investigation no matter what.

    They’ve got embarrassments and secrets to keep, too. And Mitch McConnell, who may want Trump destroyed politically, isn’t convinced an equally split commission would be accurate down the line.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  43. @41

    whembly (ae0eb5) — 6/8/2021 @ 12:42 pm
    why doesn’t Democrats just use existing committees to do just that? What’s stopping democrats?

    Speaker Nancy Pelosi doesn’t have the votes either to create a special committee or to fund a regular committee investigation. She only has a 4-vote majority. And some Democratic Congressmen are concerned about credibility.

    There’s also maybe that an investigation would run into bad decisions by the Democratic leadership – in which case she might be maneuvering for an investigation not to happen.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/8/2021 @ 12:59 pm

    She doesn’t need the full Democrat caucus to create a special committee. They have control over existing standing committee, with subpoena power, to conduct investigations.

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  44. Frankly, a 9/11 style commission isn’t going to find anything that meaningful.

    Both party has to agree, equally, on the verbiage of the report. So, both sides will seek to mitigate any partisan embarrassments, much like the 9/11 report.

    If you want an investigation to really find the facts, Democrats can do it alone and publish the facts that they’ve uncovered.

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  45. Kevin M @ 23.

    King George [III] on the transfer of power:

    Well, you can say this: Hamilton is not anywhere near as untrue to history as Jake Tapper’s books.

    https://acalltofreedom.wordpress.com/2017/04/07/all-the-historical-inaccuracies-in-hamilton

    A lot of them Lin-Manuel Miranda probably didn’t even realize. There are a number of anachronistic words and ideas. New York wasn’t the biggest city until after 1816.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  46. Outside of one specific event, where Ashely Babbit was killed for playing stupid games, the mob on 1/6 wasn’t much different than the mobs during the Kavanaugh or Barrett hearing.

    This is just incredibly dumb. Remind me when Kavanaugh protestors beat up cops or chased legislators out of their chamber.

    Victor (9ebafe)

  47. whembly (ae0eb5) — 6/8/2021 @ 1:04 pm

    She doesn’t need the full Democrat caucus to create a special committee. They have control over existing standing committee, with subpoena power, to conduct investigations.

    They can’t create any new committees without a majority of the full House and Republicans are sure to all vote against a partisan committee.

    She got about 35 Republican votes for an equally divided commission. (but it needed the concurrence of the Senate – because that’s what she set it up as)

    I don’t know if staff and money can be added to any standing committee without a vote.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  48. I think it’s the faulty premise of the accusation, that it was an insurrection designed to overthrow the government.

    I don’t know if the insurrection was “designed to overthrow the government”, because “design” implies some grand master plan, and Trump isn’t a master planner; rather, he’s more a seat-of-the-pants flamethrower who makes rash decisions on the fly. It sounds like the Proud Boys had more of a plan than Trump.
    And there are other options besides “overthrow”, such as delaying the vote so that Pence will do as Trump ordered and to hell with the 12th Amendment and Electoral Count Act. Maybe the ultimate objective was to steal the election from Biden, but it seems the best way to know for sure is to fully empanel a bipartisan commission, don’t you think?

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  49. Do you have evidence of this or is it more of a hunch.

    Like what, tape recorded phone calls? No.

    But it seems like everyone knew it was coming and they let it play out. Everyone on TV was going on about how terrible this was and what was Trump trying to do. Then they tried to drop the hammer on him.

    It didn’t work, since he’s like a god or something. More’s the pity.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  50. As for the “commission”, just be glad that the GOP doesn’t have Congress or we’d be having hearings on “who stole the vote.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  51. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/8/2021 @ 1:19 pm

    And there are other options besides “overthrow”, such as delaying the vote so that Pence will do as Trump ordered and to hell with the 12th Amendment and Electoral Count Act.

    Trump wanted Pence to do that first thing. Pence postponed telling Trump no till the last minute.

    Now possibly that might reverse the default so that both houses would have to reject the Trump position in order to reject it – instead of both needing to accept it for that to prevail. But it still wouldn’t work.

    There was no real plan, except maybe the one Mike Flynn pushed.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  52. @46

    Outside of one specific event, where Ashely Babbit was killed for playing stupid games, the mob on 1/6 wasn’t much different than the mobs during the Kavanaugh or Barrett hearing.

    This is just incredibly dumb. Remind me when Kavanaugh protestors beat up cops or chased legislators out of their chamber.

    Victor (9ebafe) — 6/8/2021 @ 1:10 pm

    Disagree.

    When there’s a mob, security officials get beat up. Just look at the summer of riots.

    During Kavanaugh, the mob did prevent congressional folks from moving to/from their offices.

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  53. @47

    whembly (ae0eb5) — 6/8/2021 @ 1:04 pm

    She doesn’t need the full Democrat caucus to create a special committee. They have control over existing standing committee, with subpoena power, to conduct investigations.

    They can’t create any new committees without a majority of the full House and Republicans are sure to all vote against a partisan committee.

    She got about 35 Republican votes for an equally divided commission. (but it needed the concurrence of the Senate – because that’s what she set it up as)

    I don’t know if staff and money can be added to any standing committee without a vote.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/8/2021 @ 1:16 pm

    I’m tell you that they don’t NEED to create a NEW committee.

    There are EXISTING standing committees, that Democrats controls numerically, that has staff/subpoena powers.

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  54. @48

    but it seems the best way to know for sure is to fully empanel a bipartisan commission, don’t you think?

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 6/8/2021 @ 1:19 pm

    No, because as I said a bipartisan committee, ala 9/11, is served to protect the connected in politics.

    Best for Democrats, even in partisan fervor, to unleash their existing committee to investigate, so long as it’s done in public.

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  55. It’s the banana Republicans all by themselves, not the GOP as a whole, who need a majority to have Congress to hold an investigation as to “who stole the vote.”

    Nobody, even in the states, is doing this. Arizona has paid for a fake audit. Other states a=have passed election reform bills.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  56. 53. They need a majority on a committee, too to do anything.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  57. There are committee members, even Chairman who don’t want that job. They’d disappoint someone, and if there;s a committee chairman who would take it, others don’t have confidence in him. And where it went would be out of Pelosi’s control more than in a special committee which she had a hand in selecting the members.

    Look, they doubled down on Brian Sicknick being killed by the mob. There are actually a good nmber of very serious injuries.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  58. …chased legislators out of their chamber.

    If only Willard, Liz and chums had stood their ground and defended the podium, waved ‘now stop that’ fingers at them all.

    Politicians are cowards; Ashli Babbitt was not.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  59. Politicians are cowards; Ashli Babbitt was not.

    Ms. Babbitt wasn’t a coward, but she was a fool for wasting her life, believing Trump’s Big Lie.

    Paul Montagu (c6a86e)

  60. @59. Ashli Babbitt, veteran, had the courage of her beliefs and did not waste her life; rather, she was wasted by a killer, still unknown to the people who pay his or her salary.

    But then, Royalists gotta royal.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  61. “The Big Lie:”

    Reaganomics. =mike-drop=

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  62. I think there are a few general conclusions not listed but that should be obvious.

    1. People charged with issuing warnings were afraid of making predictions of mayhem that turned out to wrong. Their priority was never making that sort of an error. The reason was probably because, if it was acted upon, unpopular security measures would be undertaken.

    2. There was no contingency planning if anything went wrong – all the complaints about nobody in charge; the people supposed to be in charge busy being personally engaged in fighting the mob off instead of issuing orders; no triage for injuries etc – stem from that.

    It is not like they didn’t think about it at all.

    But the contingency plan was something like enlarging the perimeter, or not granting a permit (which might have to be justified in court)

    he fundamental error, was assuming that if an attack was going to happen, you would see it coming

    And the Senate committee report still does that, arguing only “they should have anticipated it; there were all these stray comments online.”

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.2385 secs.