Patterico's Pontifications

9/15/2014

Further Shaming Themselves

Filed under: General — Dana @ 5:42 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Last week, I posted about the timid little people of the left whose narrow-minded bigotry revealed itself in protests against an invitation extended to Ayaan Hirsi Ali to speak at Yale.

Well, Hirsi Ali will be speaking at Yale tonight. In a collective outcry, narrow-minded bigots on campus are collectively whining about her appearance – including the pearl-clutching Yale chaplain Sharon Kugler:

“We understand and affirm Yale’s commitment to free expression within an educational context,” Kugler said in the statement. “We are deeply concerned, however, by Ms. Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s long record of disparaging, and arguably hateful, comments about Muslims and Islam.”

Kugler wants the Buckley Program to allow speeches by critics of Hirsi Ali, one of the planet’s greatest and bravest campaigners for women’s rights and a very vocal critic of Islam.

“To better represent the whole Yale community and its educational goals, we recommend the organizers consider actions to expand the event, such as allowing concerned students to present their perspectives, or adding a scholarly voice to create a more nuanced conversation,” the chaplain urged.

Can you hear the screams of warning: Plug your ears!!

God help us. It appears that large swaths of the student population at Yale prefer having their intelligence insulted in order to remain safely cocooned in their ignorant infancy. At $44,000 per year in tuition, that’s some very expensive babysitting going on.

Thirty-five student campus groups co-signed a letter of protest from the Yale Muslim Students Association, stating they feel not only highly disrespected by the invitation but also believe that Hirsi Ali lacks the credentials to speak as an authority on Islam. I will refrain from a crude rejoinder here, but suffice it to say, I think there are very few who can actually provide such a uniquely powerful perspective and authoritative look at Islam. Further, if they believe she lacks the necessary authority, then why do they even care what she says? Why be so threatened by an ignorant rube?

But sadly, you know who has insulted and degraded the women on campus most in this? The dull-eyed, uninspired and fear-mongering Yale Women’s Center who co-signed the letter.

–Dana

81 Responses to “Further Shaming Themselves”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  2. If they don’t like what she says, then let them hold their own event to share their message with anyone who wants to listen.

    aunursa (932331)

  3. Dana, I think you’re great and all, but you’ve got to stop refraining from making those crude rejoinders. That’s the raisin in the Surprise Ball. We regulars live for that stuff.

    You are absolutely right about the “Women’s Center”. For shame!

    ThOR (130453)

  4. One of the benefits of having to suffer through the maladministration of HteWon and HReid are the contrast this brings to the great leaders of the past. I have read and reread Winston Churchill’s works and they continue to astound. His brilliance was apparent from an early age. He could discern the truth, and he wasn’t afraid to speak it and to write about it. These were his thoughts on muslim ideology:

    “How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

    Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step, and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it (Islam) has vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”

    There is more knowledge in these two paragraphs than in the entire syllabus of what passes for comparative religion in what is purported to be a modern university. To be a muslim is to be one who supports banditry and priacy. Beheadings are nothing new in muslim lands.

    There are no doubt decent people who consider themselves muslims. The same can be said of Democrats. But they are brain dead.

    bobathome (5ccbd8)

  5. I think there are very few who can actually provide such a uniquely powerful perspective and authoritative look at Islam.

    Hi Dana. Im wondering, why do you think this? And would you think the same about and welcome someone like Matt Dillahunty to speak at a university? He was raised Southern Baptist and was in seminary school when he left the faith.

    Gil (27c98f)

  6. #5, Gil: Please tell us about the death threats and violence that the Southern Baptists are actively pursuing to silence Mr. Dillahunty. I’ve never heard of the man, and I’m not aware of the threat Southern Baptists present to the rest of us. But here’s your chance to expound on your thesis. No links please.

    bobathome (5ccbd8)

  7. #6. Hi Bob
    Please don’t misunderstand. Im not equating Southern Baptists with Islam. The quote was that Ali could give a “powerful perspective and authoritative look at Islam”. This is presumable because she lived in Islam eventually leaving it. Im wondering if a person who similarly left the Christian faith could also give a powerful and authoritative look at Christianity.

    Gil (27c98f)

  8. Yeah. Let’s not mention the hateful acts that various Muslims
    have committed on or to Hirsi Ali and others over the years. And who
    will continue to do so if they’re not stopped.

    The little sissy babies at Yale apparently can’t bear to hear
    Hirsi Ali mention any true facts to support her supposed “hate”.
    Nor do they want to be reminded of the Muslim’s on-going war and acts
    of war and assorted other atrocities committed in the name of Islam which
    nicely coincides with what Islam teaches they should do on a daily basis.

    Why is it that everyone’s sensibilities are to be respected and
    can be used as an excuse for censorship except for the very people’s
    being censored? Don’t the victims have some say in response to the
    hate shown them in the first place?

    I used to live around Yale and roomed with various and sundry Yalies.

    A finer group of whiners and whingers has never been seen before.
    They could argue forever about the most ridiculous and unimportant things.

    And that was 40 years ago. Good to see they’re keeping up the school’s
    reputation.

    jakee308 (ba1e65)

  9. >> but the influence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.

    They used to say something like that about Roman Catholicism, and indeed the industrial revolution was attributed to Protestantism. “In some ways, it’s more dangerous today,” Timothy Roemer, who was a member of both the Joint Inquiry and the 9/11 Commission, observed. “A more complex series of threats are coming together than even before 9/11, involving ISIS, Al Qaeda, and cyber-terrorist capabilities. The more the American people know about what happened thirteen years ago, the more we can have a credible, open debate” about our security needs. Releasing the twenty-eight pages, he said, might be a step forward. “Hopefully, after some initial shock and awe, it would make our process work better. Our government has an obligation to do this.”

    But it is very true Moslems turned against knowledge, under the influence of al-Ghazali, I think about 1090 or so in the east and 1300 in the west. (Spain)

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  10. She was chased out of Holland, not long after the Theo Van Gogh beheadings, by a Moroccan immigrant,
    after the Dutch govt would not provide her protection, speaking truth to power, is a really dangerous

    narciso (ee1f88)

  11. Gil (27c98f) — 9/15/2014 @ 6:35 pm

    OH! Well, in that case they’d be making the rounds of all the
    Morning talk shows and whoever assumed Oprah’s mantle during the
    afternoon let alone accepting speaking engagements to our most
    prestigious institutions of Academe. (to the cheers and applause
    of the entire student body).

    Plus there’d be paeans to their bravery and dedication for having
    braved the slings and outrageous misfortune flung by those mean
    Christians and all their ridiculous claims for their so called
    religious experience.

    The NYT would have a top of the fold column out praising their fortitude
    and Charlie Rose would have them on two nights running.

    Hypocrisy thy name is Liberal!

    jakee308 (ba1e65)

  12. This was who she feared, but then he wasn’t Islamic either

    Just as Theo’s murderer exited the other side of the park, the police caught up with him and shot him in the leg. He was immediately arrested and taken to a nearby hospital for treatment of his wounds. The attacker was eventually identified as 26-year-old Mohammed Bouyeri, an Islamic extremist with dual Dutch and Moroccan nationalities who was believed to have links with other Islamic militant groups. Investigators revealed that Bouyeri’s motivation to kill was likely sparked by the movie Submission and further aggravated by his hate of the western world and those who refused to accept Islamic values.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  13. this is where I got that passage, and there is a thumbnail sketch of Hirsi ali, subsequent:

    http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/theo_van_gogh/

    narciso (ee1f88)

  14. Gil (27c98f) — 9/15/2014 @ 6:23 pm

    Because, Gil, Southern Baptists aren’t beheading hostages on YOu tube
    and making threats to the world.

    Nor are they instituting a regime of terror and religious law upon
    the survivors of a civil war.

    That’s why she’d be more interesting and thus a worthy speaker.

    Some disillusioned bible thumper just doesn’t resonate with the times.

    jakee308 (ba1e65)

  15. #11 Jake:
    Im not sure I understand your comment. Is it your position that having endured violence is the only reason Ali is “authoritative” on the subject of Islam?
    To repeat and stay on the subject I asked – I guess I could open it up to all of you. Would you readily welcome an ex Christian who went to seminary school but left the faith to speak at your children’s university as “authoritative”?

    Gil (27c98f)

  16. Im wondering if a person who similarly left the Christian faith could also give a powerful and authoritative look at Christianity.

    I imagine Gil, that if Southern Baptists were mutilating the genitalia of little girls, raping them and selling them into slavery, beheading people of other religions regularly, bombing buildings, trains, buses, pizza parlors and more then my answer would be “yes” Gil, she would have an authoritative look at a Christianity that depraved it needed to be disclosed for what it is.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  17. Gil (27c98f) — 9/15/2014 @ 6:55 pm

    I’m sure you understood it quite well.

    In smaller words then: having an ex-Christian speak would not
    be as pertinent to our current geo-political position nor would it
    speak to the central figures involved in our current problems nor
    who we must begin to formulate a rational and effective policy
    to thwart in their aims.

    What are the Muslims all about is a question being asked around
    the world as we speak I am sure.

    We have history and the Muslims words to absorb but a live,
    engaged and erudite witness to the mindset and ultimately their
    motivations and the actions they are willing to commit is a
    much better gauge than dry words on paper.

    Your question is petty fogging at best and deliberate obfuscation
    while erecting an implausible straw man at worst.

    Don’t bother with anymore faux questions you have no interest
    in reading or responding rationally to.

    jakee308 (ba1e65)

  18. Islime is a religion of peace & tolerance, and the moose slimes will kill you if you say otherwise.

    which make me wonder: is Gil just a mendoucheous twatwaffle, or realistically afraid of being beheaded by a member of the religion of pieces he’s trying so desperately to defend?

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  19. #13 & 16
    I agree with you, Ali has a very clear and authoritative perspective on the violence that can be visited by muslims & Islam. However, my original question is regarding the quote in the original post that says:

    I think there are very few who can actually provide such a uniquely powerful perspective and authoritative look at Islam.

    Which is saying that Ali can be authoritative on all of Islam in general. We don’t necessarily need Ali for that. Any Imam would be a similar authority. Or is violence the only aspect of Islam that you care to focus on?
    In that case should we find an ex Christian who lived through years of molestation at the hands of a priest to come give a talk at a university because of his “uniquely powerful and authoritative” views?

    Gil (27c98f)

  20. Would you readily welcome an ex Christian who went to seminary school but left the faith to speak at your children’s university as “authoritative”?

    That’s about as loaded a question as one could ask, Gil. It’s not that she’s just some disgruntled Moslem who left the faith, it’s the story behind her leaving and her story subsequent to leaving. It’s the persecution, the torture, the murder, the destruction of the faith she left and her story relating to her experiences while she was there. If you don’t get that then I must assume you just don’t want to get that, Gil.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  21. The millions of Muslim women who have had their genitals forcibly mutilated were unavailable for comment.

    But some loud-mouthed Episcopal “minister” has decided who is an expert on Islam.

    Let’s send dim-witted Sharon Kugler to Iraq for a few months and see if she experiences an “epiphany.”

    WarEagle82 (b18ccf)

  22. Or is violence the only aspect of Islam that you care to focus on?

    What other aspect of Islam is there to focus on? Their great benevolence to people of other faiths around the world? Their unbridled generosity? Their ability to take every day household items and blow people up with them? Their fantastic dress code? It’s a religion of violence so what the hell else would one focus on?

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  23. point of order for Dana: how can the Yale idiots shame themselves, when it is self-evident that they have no sense of shame, or even the moral code & belief structure necessary to develop one?

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  24. In smaller words then: having an ex-Christian speak would not be as pertinent to our current geo-political position nor would it speak to the central figures involved in our current problems nor who we must begin to formulate a rational and effective policy to thwart in their aims.

    Agreed, but all I am asking is if you would accept an ex Christian to speak as an authority on Christianity.

    Your question is petty fogging at best and deliberate obfuscation
    while erecting an implausible straw man at worst.
    Don’t bother with anymore faux questions you have no interest
    in reading or responding rationally to.

    Well that didn’t take long. You’ve deployed the Gil is stupid and dishonest defense. All Ive done is ask a question – without getting an answer in 10 posts, but im the one dodging around being dishonest. ya ok!

    Gil (27c98f)

  25. Gil,

    Let’s first be honest about this and admit that it’s not that they are concerned with Hirsi Ali’s lack of authority on the subject. Rather they are concerned that she shame their sacred cow.

    Dana (4dbf62)

  26. You got that right, redc1c4. They’re their own worst enemies, trouble is they’re ours too.

    Hoagie (4dfb34)

  27. What other aspect of Islam is there to focus on? Their great benevolence to people of other faiths around the world? Their unbridled generosity? Their ability to take every day household items and blow people up with them? Their fantastic dress code? It’s a religion of violence so what the hell else would one focus on?

    Oh well that’s not a sweeping, bigoted generalization or anything. What about the millions of non violent muslims? They must be misunderstanding.

    Gil (27c98f)

  28. Let’s first be honest about this and admit that it’s not that they are concerned with Hirsi Ali’s lack of authority on the subject. Rather they are concerned that she shame their sacred cow.

    Agreed. The motivations of those trying to silence Ali are wrong. I wholeheartedly support her and those who invited her to speak. Now, how open would you be to having an ex Christian be presented as an authority on Christianity at a university talk?

    Gil (27c98f)

  29. It is so ironic to see a self-styled free thinker have the vapors at the thought of allowing this brilliant and brave woman to actually speak her mind.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  30. I see Gil is trying to hijack the thread.

    Bill M (906260)

  31. Well that didn’t take long. You’ve deployed the Gil is stupid and dishonest defense. All Ive done is ask a question – without getting an answer in 10 posts, but im the one dodging around being dishonest. ya ok!
    Gil (27c98f) — 9/15/2014 @ 7:16 pm

    I knew that’s what you really wanted so I gave it to you.

    Say thank you gil.

    jakee308 (ba1e65)

  32. Now this is a university, which published a book about the Danish cartoons, without the actual cartoons,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  33. Hoagie (4dfb34) — 9/15/2014 @ 6:59 pm

    if Southern Baptists were mutilating the genitalia of little girls, raping them and selling them into slavery, beheading people of other religions regularly, bombing buildings, trains, buses, pizza parlors and more

    They never did anything like that. Selling people into slavery was about as far as it went, and hat was pver 150 years ago. They never bombed people because dynamite hadn’t been invented yet, but some of them did kill ordinary civilians.

    http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/unarmed-yankees-are-massacred-in-centralia

    But their religion really didn’t have anything to do with it.

    After the war, some of these Confederates went into ordinary crime. The most famous one was Jesse James.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_James

    Jesse and his brother Frank James were Confederate guerrillas, or Bushwhackers, during the Civil War. They were accused of participating in atrocities committed against Union soldiers, including the Centralia Massacre. After the war, as members of various gangs of outlaws, they robbed banks, stagecoaches, and trains.

    For a time, they operated out of Hot springs, Arkansas, and, to fool people, wore Union blue..

    then my answer would be “yes” Gil, she would have an authoritative look at a Christianity that depraved it needed to be disclosed for what it is.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  34. What about the millions of non violent muslims?

    you mean the ones in all the mass protests against Al-Q, Hamass, ISIS/ISIL, 9-11, female genital mutilation, etc?

    good question: what about them?

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  35. including the pearl-clutching Yale chaplain Sharon Kugler:

    If contemptible leftists like her somehow, someway, on some occasion are beheaded by Islamic fanatics — by people who observe a religion founded by a ruthless, vengeful, murderous leader (ie, Mohamed) — is it okay if I have no more than mixed feelings? Or do I have to shed honest, heartfelt, sincere tears?

    Mark (c160ec)

  36. Sorry, didn’t see that quote at the end of my comment.

    Ronald Reagan used to cite ibn Khaldun (May 27, 1332 – March 19, 1406) about the last big Moslem writer,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ONWZc_fFPk

    And blamed tghe decline of Islam on high taxes.

    “In the beginning of the empire, tax rates were low AND the revenue was high”
    “At the end of the empire, tax rates were high AND the revenue was low”

    Theer are other reasons. Disease and dictators. This reduces the number of independent actors who can do something.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  37. “” Now, how open would you be to having an ex Christian be presented as an authority on Christianity at a university talk?
    Gil (27c98f) — 9/15/2014 @ 7:20 pm “”
    = = = = =

    It would be very interesting. I’d get to hear a vastly-different point of view, and would probably be outraged at something (or several somethings) the speaker said. But that’s OK. I’d no doubt come away with several new thoughts to ponder upon. New arguments to have with myself over what I believe and why I believe it…

    A_Nonny_Mouse (804cf9)

  38. 36. They falsely claimed support from other organizations, although some of them may have sent expressions of suport without saying they should be publicly named.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  39. David Gelertner had a nice piece at NRO today on this kerfuffle:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/387933/free-speech-yale-david-gelernter

    I still don’t understand why Gil does not believe Hirsi Ali is not a qualified speaker particularly since she does bring a different perspective than an Imam.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  40. Remember that the delicate flowers at Brandeis University got Hirsi Ali canceled as a Commencement speaker this year.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  41. 34. I think the only place you had such mass protests was in Egypt, although many of the protesters were not Moslems, or were more secular.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  42. I wholeheartedly support her and those who invited her to speak. Now, how open would you be to having an ex Christian be presented as an authority on Christianity at a university talk?

    I’d have no problem if a university deemed such a hypothetical ex-Christian as deserving of time to address the school. Why not?

    Moreover, as someone of the right, I don’t fall for the idea that my ideology makes me somehow more tolerant, compassionate, sophisticated, beautiful, generous, humane and loving than anyone else, than those of the left. So either my support or opposition to prospective speakers at a school won’t be based on a refutation of that assumption.

    Mark (c160ec)

  43. Is there any shortage of leftists that claim to have left the Church?

    Gil never misses a chance to spew his passive-aggressive anti-Christianity hatred.

    JD (1dfdde)

  44. Would you readily welcome an ex Christian who went to seminary school but left the faith to speak at your children’s university as “authoritative”?

    Gil (27c98f) — 9/15/2014 @ 6:55 pm

    I’m not sure why you’re harping on the use of the word “authoritative”. Dana is the one who described her that way, not the people inviting her.

    I’m not sure she could be considered authoritative about Islam theologically or historically, but she is certainly authoritative about what she has experienced which I think is what she talks about. Are you arguing her experiences are highly atypical?

    As for Matt Dillahunty, he would be “authoritative” as to his own experiences at seminary school. It seems unlikely he could report anything that is particularly relevant to Christianity in general based on that. I don’t think he could be considered authoritative in any other sense.

    To summarize, your “point” that you keep harping on is totally pointless.

    Gerald A (d65c67)

  45. “Gil never misses a chance to spew his passive-aggressive anti-Christianity hatred.”

    JD – Gil has such an inferiority complex about his belief system he has to take constant pot shots at others in an attempt to prove his superiority.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  46. #7, Gil: Ali did more than leave islam, she survived her apostasy, at least for now. Thus she IS almost uniquely qualified to speak on the subject. Others with similar qualifications are no longer able to speak, authoritatively or otherwise.

    bobathome (5ccbd8)

  47. Bob, TFG seems to have gotten away with it. Unless…

    Gazzer (5bdf15)

  48. Does Gil know that AHA is an atheist? He might be interested in this article. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/15/ayaan-hirsi-ali-yale_n_5824828.html?ir=Religion

    nk (dbc370)

  49. I’m not sure why you’re harping on the use of the word “authoritative”. Dana is the one who described her that way, not the people inviting her.

    I’m not sure she could be considered authoritative about Islam theologically or historically, but she is certainly authoritative about what she has experienced which I think is what she talks about. Are you arguing her experiences are highly atypical?
    As for Matt Dillahunty, he would be “authoritative” as to his own experiences at seminary school. It seems unlikely he could report anything that is particularly relevant to Christianity in general based on that. I don’t think he could be considered authoritative in any other sense.
    To summarize, your “point” that you keep harping on is totally pointless.

    Hi Gerald
    Thanks for the answer. You are exactly right Dana mentioned that Ali would be “uniquely powerful perspective and authoritative look on Islam” in her post. I asked her why she considered Ali this way and asked if an ex Christian (from seminary) could be an authority as well. Predictably everyone got in a tizzy over it. This highlights the bias / special pleading they have in regards to Christianity. You at least have applied the same rules to both situations. Good for you.
    Pointless? Maybe, but I hope some silent lurker out there got something out of it

    Gil (27c98f)

  50. “Gil never misses a chance to spew his passive-aggressive anti-Christianity hatred.”

    I don’t hate Christianity or Christians.
    I simply do not respect their beliefs. Just like you may not respect someone’s belief about global warming, or fiscal policy. It is telling that when someone expresses a view opposed to yours, its hatred. But when you disagree with something its acceptable to voice your opinion.

    Gil (27c98f)

  51. I’d have no problem if a university deemed such a hypothetical ex-Christian as deserving of time to address the school. Why not?

    Moreover, as someone of the right, I don’t fall for the idea that my ideology makes me somehow more tolerant, compassionate, sophisticated, beautiful, generous, humane and loving than anyone else, than those of the left. So either my support or opposition to prospective speakers at a school won’t be based on a refutation of that assumption.

    Good for you Mark!
    Hey JD – you might want to reread that bolded section few times.

    Gil (27c98f)

  52. i love the smell of burning strawmen….

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  53. Hey JD – you might want to reread that bolded section few times.

    ever consider taking your own advice?

    naw, of course not.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  54. #54 Which straman is it that you are going to burn?

    Gil (27c98f)

  55. On the one hand, a Somali girl who suffered all the things girls in a neolithic/Muslim society suffer. On the other hand, a whiny, mama’s boy of an American ex-seminarian mad at God for making him fat and ugly and not bringing him a pony at Christmas. Totally the same thing.

    nk (dbc370)

  56. I’m thinking Ali is an authority exceeded by the likes of Anis Shorrosh, Bat Ye’or, Robert Spencer, Ibn Warraq, and very few others.

    Its hard for an Imam to be likened to any of these, goat-f#cking ‘tards are as common as dirt with Islam.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  57. Good for you Mark!

    And, Gil, it’s therefore damn important that you in particular — that liberals in general — don’t ever fall for the notion that left-leaning emotions make a person more tolerant, compassionate, sophisticated, beautiful, generous, humane and loving than anyone else. It’s okay to believe your biases make you less sensible and practical than anyone else. But more tolerant, generous and humane? Pfft. Hell, no.

    Mark (c160ec)

  58. “I hope some silent lurker out there got something out of it”

    Yes, lil’ Gil, we did. We’re all bigots in your inestimable eyes.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  59. Pointless? Maybe, but I hope some silent lurker out there got something out of it

    Gil (27c98f) — 9/15/2014 @ 10:10 pm

    Since it’s pointless…how would someone get something out of it? You have no logical point to make.

    I asked her why she considered Ali this way and asked if an ex Christian (from seminary) could be an authority as well. Predictably everyone got in a tizzy over it. This highlights the bias / special pleading they have in regards to Christianity.

    You have in fact implied that her experiences are atypical (by bringing up someone who was molested). But you don’t make that argument explicitly. That is in fact the underlying implication to all your BS. If anyone is “getting in a tizzy”, it’s over THAT, NOT the thing about inviting some ex-Christian.

    You haven’t explained what the bias is. Nobody has said any ex-Christian from seminary couldn’t be an authority on Christianity (STRAWMAN!). You’re imagining things. However there’s nothing about the specific person you mentioned that leads me to believe he has anything of any particular importance to report, so calling him an authority is objectively inaccurate.

    You at least have applied the same rules to both situations. Good for you.

    Everybody is applying the same rules. I don’t know how long you can go on with this imaginary scenario that your atheist brain has concocted.

    Gerald A (d65c67)

  60. 52.I don’t hate Christianity or Christians.
    I simply do not respect their beliefs. Just like you may not respect someone’s belief about global warming, or fiscal policy. It is telling that when someone expresses a view opposed to yours, its hatred. But when you disagree with something its acceptable to voice your opinion.
    Gil (27c98f)

    That is because there is a difference between disagreeing with someone and not respecting their beliefs.

    I disagree with people who think pork is delicious.
    I do not respect the beliefs of people who call me a genocidal murderer for eating steaks.

    With someone who eats pork I can still have a steak and both of us can be happy.
    With someone who would deny me the freedom to choose my entre one of us must always be unhappy, and if I am the one who is unhappy I am likely also made a criminal or worse.

    People are welcome to disagree with me.
    Those that don’t respect my beliefs however can expect no respect from me in return.

    Sam (e8f1ad)

  61. Regarding the list of “signatories”:
    As far as I can tell, the ones in question had communicated something to the effect that their organizations would be likely to be interested in signing…based on a vague description.

    Ibidem (d88ff4)

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  63. atheism is simply another religious belief…albeit, one that is utterly intolerant of any other belief, much like islime.

    what i find most telling though, is that atheists, while willing to 5hit on all other religions, for even the flimsiest of pretenses, absolutely refuse to do the same for their fellow bigots, and, in fact often carry water for them, as we see Gil trying to do here.

    it’s almost as if they are afraid of something, which is strange, because we all know islime is the religion of pieces, so why be afraid?

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  64. redc1c4 – in fairness, there are two major flavours of atheism …

    One flavour is those secure atheists who personally do not believe in any deity – and are secure enough in that belief system that they are not threatened by those who do believe in one or more deities … secure atheists are comfortable to be around …

    The other flavour is those militant prosyletising atheists who are practitioners of the cult of zero deities … their beliefs require that they fight to try to minimise the acceptance of any believers in any religion with more than zero deities … their beliefs require them to try to ban any and all references to any deity in the public square … this, unfortunately, is tantamount to the establishment of the religion of zero deities …

    Why the militant atheists do not challenge Islam the way they challenge Christianity doesn’t speak well of them – one has to suspect that they prefer to take on the non-threatening folk …

    Alastor (2e7f9f)

  65. 28. …Agreed. The motivations of those trying to silence Ali are wrong. I wholeheartedly support her and those who invited her to speak. Now, how open would you be to having an ex Christian be presented as an authority on Christianity at a university talk?

    Gil (27c98f) — 9/15/2014 @ 7:20 pm

    Gil, what planet do you live on? They have such people speak on college campuses all the time. The same dull parade of speakers and debaters shlep from campus to campus. All saying the same thing. All thinking they’re bold risk takers instead of the conformists they really are.

    http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2012/09/have-someone-different-at-your-campus.html

    I’m available for speaking engagements, debates, weddings, funerals, and other stuff like that. To learn what I can offer and how to contact me, read below.

    John is a former Christian minister and apologist with M.A., M.Div., and Th.M. degrees in Philosophy, Theology, and the Philosophy of Religion from Lincoln Christian Seminary and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. While in school John majored under Dr William Lane Craig, the infamous leading evangelical apologist/debater of our generation. John also studied in a Ph.D. program at Marquette University for a year and a half in the area of Theology and Ethics.

    John authored the book, Why I Became an Atheist: A Former Preacher Rejects Christianity

    By “have someone different at your campus” they mean “listen to the same old groupthink” at your college campus.

    You know what you call “having an ex Christian be presented as an authority on Christianity at a university talk?” Boring. More of the same old same old.

    It was already bad when I went to college. A friend of mine and I used to show up at anti-Israel and take the opposite position just to annoy all the right people. The type that says “I want to be an individual, just like everyone else.” All the cool, outspoken individual free thinkers were all thinking and speaking of the same things in approved ways. They couldn’t understand why I didn’t want to be an individual. Like the rest of the thundering campus herd.

    Oh, yeah, you want someone different on campus? Have a pro-Israeli Jew speak. That’d a be change from the usual Jew-hating Jews.

    To better represent the whole Yale community and its educational goals, we recommend the organizers consider actions to expand the event, such as allowing concerned students to present their perspectives, or adding a scholarly voice to create a more nuanced conversation,” the chaplain urged.

    Translation: If we have to let Ayaan Hirsi Ali speak we demand the right to have speakers lie by the metric ton about Islam before and after she speaks so she doesn’t undo our years of forcible indoctrination.

    Steve57 (e9e6e7)

  66. it has been my experience that “secure atheists” are about as rare IRL as “moderate moose slimes”…

    YMMV.

    redc1c4 (abd49e)

  67. Now, how open would you be to having an ex Christian be presented as an authority on Christianity at a university talk?

    You’ve never worked on a campus, have you? The short answer is that it would not matter how ‘open’ about it any ordinary person thereupon would be. Various institutional units have their slush funds to invite and sponsor outside speakers. At very few institutions would anyone bother about it if that lapsed minister who married one of the Gaylor hags (I think his name is Dan Barker) spoke on campus. The posters would go up on various bulletin boards, an entry would be placed on the institutional calendar, a few faculty would require their students to attend, and a few curious people who noticed the posters or calendar entry would attend. It would just be an element of all the other chaff on the institutional calendar. Someone from the school paper might call the chaplain for a quotation, but you’d have to do something really egregious to get an irate response from that quarter (and it would be limited to that quarter or a few scattered students; the administration do not give a rip).

    Art Deco (ee8de5)

  68. Gil – I am just using your language and style of argument against you. Seems you don’t care for it much when pointed in your direction. That, and based on our experience with you, having others believe in a deity gets your panties in a knot.

    JD (933358)

  69. Forget Gil, he’s a moron.

    Dana, I tried very hard to see your side of this. I really did. I even slept on it. But you are wrong. At least about your estimation of Sharon Kugler. Why should a Catholic chaplain approve of a militant atheist, even if the atheist’s venom is directed against another religion? Even then, Kugler was not trying to stifle AHA but to have opposing viewpoints heard while the issue is still front and center. The same for the Muslim students. Why should they not flex whatever muscle they have to defend their religion?

    I, personally, knowing what I know of AHA’s views would not go to listen to her. She loses me at the atheism part, no matter which religion is her target. I know a woman who said she lost her faith in God because she was abused as a child. I felt sorry for the child. I did not ascribe wisdom to the woman from the child’s experience.

    The essentially dilettantish knee-jerk leftists who signed with the Muslim students are fair game; beat them up all you want. 😉

    nk (dbc370)

  70. 71. “I felt sorry for the child. I did not ascribe wisdom to the woman from the child’s experience.”

    Truth isn’t, wasn’t and never will be democratically ascertained. Democracy is defunct, kaput, deceased.

    People of conscience, e.g., Chaplain Kugler will not have the slightest inkling, an instant prior, those they now appease will dispatch them as a momentary annoyance, on an impulse. Not before time.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  71. 67. Just freaking stand at the Climate Science orifice door at your local screwel.

    The will, unfailingly, be some fat-butt mediocrity lecturer, a wallowing billboard of Darwinist hatred.

    Follow him to his car, no rush. Hardly an anti-Xian bumper sticker seen on your internets will not be represented.

    Gil is an A-hole, straight up.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  72. It could be, gary, that a Catholic chaplain is not someone who “dabbles” at her religion even if, as a woman, that is the highest position she can achieve as a spiritual guide in her church. It could even possibly be that, as the paid spiritual guide of the university, she feels a duty not to be laissez faire complacent towards militant atheist guest speakers on campus. Just a guess.

    nk (dbc370)

  73. 74. You must be feeling as tho you’re on the bubble today.

    http://chaplain.yale.edu/staff

    Sure, there’s a ‘possibility’.

    gary gulrud (46ca75)

  74. Had a rare solid seven hours sleep.

    nk (dbc370)

  75. Is Allah still a pimp and his special prophet a raper of slaves dreaming of sex with nine year old girls? If that has not changed then Islam can go find a dog and phreak on his flesh.

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