Patterico's Pontifications

8/23/2008

I Don’t Have a Burning Preference for McCain VP, but I Think the Choice of Biden Makes Romney the Most Beneficial Pick

Filed under: 2008 Election,Current Events,Politics — WLS @ 11:40 pm



[Posted by WLS]

By not playing gender or geographical politics with his selection, Obama has given McCain the opportunity to do so.

If you look at the election map, it pretty much looks like the finish of the Bush-Kerry race, with only a couple of potential switches.

But, if McCain picks Romney, I think he cements two states that will make it very difficult for Obama to find a path to 270.  I think Romney brings McCain Nevada without question, and very likely brings him Michigan.

Nevada, with an increasing minority population and very powerful union presence, is a Bush state that the Dems see as ripe for Obama to pick off.  But Romney probably solidifies the state for McCain because 7% of the Nevada population is Mormon.  It has the 5th highest % of Mormons among all the states.  Mormons tend to vote GOP anyway, but having Romney on the ticket will drive up turnout.

Romney’s long family ties to Michigan, combined with the sad state of the Michigan economy which is presided over by Dems at all levels of state Gov’t, AND the fact that Obama/Biden may be one of the least gun-friendly tickets in recent history — and the NRA is strong in Michigan — all work to move Michigan over to McCain’s column.  

If McCain takes Nevada and Michigan, he can lost Ohio and Pennsylvania and still win.  He can lose Virginia and Pennsylvania and still win.  

Obama would have to win Virginia, Ohio and Pennsylvania to win — and if he wins those three, he’ll probably be winning by more than a razor thin margin.  

So, if I were McCain, I’d play geographic politics with the pick, and put Obama behind the electoral 8 Ball.

93 Responses to “I Don’t Have a Burning Preference for McCain VP, but I Think the Choice of Biden Makes Romney the Most Beneficial Pick”

  1. Given the major dissing of Hillary, a gender pick seems more useful. Add to that the need for an age balance and you have Sarah Palin. McCain doesn’t win this by playing it safe.

    Besides Romney does nothing for McCain and dulls his message of honesty and openness. Romney is a Republican Clinton — slick, glib and a nice suit, but no firm convictions. Barf.

    This ain’t an election that two white guys will win.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  2. McCain is old, consequently he should focus on a VP who could step-up and become POTUS if necessary. That would show he puts the interests of the USA first.

    Let Dems concern themselves with political calculations.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  3. Meg Whitman for number crunching and brains. It’s tough because either the GOP includes the gender issue or they move on, business as usual.

    I have no problem with Romney. I like Lieberman but realize he’s a problem for the big win.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  4. Romney would be the best possible debate opponent of Biden, too.

    Ed (ddaac8)

  5. Meg Whitman seems to be on McCain’s mind, too.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  6. re Meg. She’d be good. Like Ed mentioned (and I forgot): the debates. Romney opposite Biden is the best possible scenario.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  7. WLS, Obama is going to win Pennsylvania; McCain is going to win Virginia. Nevada has 5 electoral votes, which is matched by New Mexico and beaten by Colorado. McCain has just as much if not a better chance of winning New Hampshire than he does of taking Nevada.

    Icy Truth (394169)

  8. Meg Whitman blahblahblahblahblahblah. If you think that she’s really in serious contention, and not a red herring put out there just to keep people buzzing . . .

    Icy Truth (394169)

  9. Holding Nevada is the issue. Its went for Bush in 2000 and 2004, and other than Harry Reid, Republicans have won most of the state wide races over the last 10-12 years.

    But it has a growing Hispanic population, and the SEIU is growing very aggressively. McCain can’t just assume he has it won.

    I wouldn’t go for Romney if all it gave McCain was a hold on Nevada. But it keeps Nevada in the GOP column AND it adds Michigan.

    And that doesn’t even scratch the issue of the fact that it will be received warmly by conservative media and talk radio.

    WLS (de1532)

  10. VN, etc: Nobody watches the VP debates, or remembers more than a sound bite. Biden being nasty to a woman, however, could pry loose a lot of Hillary voters. There are a LOT of women who feel left out of this election. I’m pretty sure that women care more about a woman on the ticket than they do about someone from their state.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  11. By the way, I think there is a decent chance for a big win against Obama. Something that keeps the Senate within reason. This single-state nail-biter strategy is for losers — like bunting that man over to second to maybe get a run. Dull and unimaginative in an election that will be won by inspiring the troops — something Obama has already done.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  12. Meg Whitman, seriously? Why not Charles Barkley or Jared Fogle?

    Palin is appealing but too inexperienced as insurance for a septuagenarian. Everytime I watch Romney I think “uncanny valley”. I’d welcome Lieberman, but supposedly conservatives won’t accept him.

    Nels (364116)

  13. Palin is not inexperienced on the issues. She was Mayor of Wasilla for 2 terms. It takes a lot to work on fiscal issues on a municipal level. Combine that with her work in the Governor’s office, she’s golden.

    Palin would be the best pick because she’d bring people who are necessary and would get into areas that would normally not be accessable for McCain, such as the PUMAs of Hillary’s campaign, post-college aged men (25-33), social conservatives, and those who believe that energy is going to be one of the biggest keys to this election.

    Palin would be able to seal up the Mountain West states, Minnesota, and maybe even Michigan. And gives McCain the possibility of getting 300+ EVs.

    Romney brings nothing to the table, he would be an albatross on the shoulders of McCain, and would cause people like me to pull the level for Baldwin. Romney will not be able to bring Michigan, is not safe for conservatives of any stripe, and will lose the south en masse.

    No to Romney, YES to Palin.

    Abraxia (1808e2)

  14. I do have a burning preference for McCain’s VP choice, and in my usual tedious length, I’ve explained why on my own blog. The high points:
    For undecided voters, or potential voters whose real decision is whether to show up at the polls or not, Biden is not capable of connecting with them in any powerful (subconscious or emotional) way.
    The odds of America becoming suddenly infatuated with Joe Biden, and that rubbing off on Barack Obama, are zero.
    Whatever else, Obama’s choice of Biden didn’t bring something to the Democratic ticket that McCain himself can’t already counter in spades.
    With no need to directly counter Obama’s choice, then instead of mirroring it (with someone else bland and conventional like Romney, Pawlenty, or Portman), McCain ought to exploit it — to seize upon it as a chance to engage in asymmetric political warfare.
    Sarah Palin or Bobby Jindal standing at the GOP’s lectern at the vice presidential debate — especially across from Democrat Joe Biden, as stereotypical an old-school politician as has ever lived and breathed — would transform the Republican Party’s image in the minds of literally millions of voters who presently associate it exclusively with rich, white, old men.
    Both are great, but two words of particular relevance to this election explain why McCain ought to pick Palin over Jindal: Energy and Hillary.
    McCain/Palin 2008: New energy for America.

    Beldar (7262f6)

  15. (Bah. Patterico, your live preview shows unordered list bullet points, but your comments actually strip out those HTML codes. In comments on a post that even mentions Romney, I ought to be able to use bullet points. And charts and graphs, if I had ’em.)

    Beldar (7262f6)

  16. She was Mayor of Wasilla for 2 terms.
    — Oh, well there you go! People will be flocking to her en masse once they discover that tidbit.

    Palin would be able to seal up the Mountain West states, Minnesota, and maybe even Michigan.
    — And by “Mountain West states” you mean Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, Utah (all states that are a lock for McCain), Nevada (which he probably will win), & Colorado (questionable – probably a loss). A) Not a big selling point; B) What do you think you know? Also, what gives you the idea that she could deliver Minnesota and Michigan (both blue states)?

    And gives McCain the possibility of getting 300+ EVs.
    — Having visions of grandeur, are we? A win is a win.

    Icy Truth (394169)

  17. What do you guys think about Congressman Mike Pence?

    Robby House (f9f7da)

  18. I like Mike Pence, a lot, but he only helps with a group of people that would never vote for Baracky.

    If I had my choice, McCain would pick someone that would bring some new energy to the campaign. Someone that would get people excited to vote for him. So far, neither side has offered anything exciting.

    JD (5f0e11)

  19. Icy Truth, I think you’re suffering from a failure of imagination or a smug certainty that conventional wisdom will always prove true.

    The conventional wisdom certainly wouldn’t have led one to expect a 46-year-old black first-term senator, with no record of legislative accomplishment but among the most liberal records in the Senate, to win the Democratic nomination. Hillary Clinton’s demise came from playing it safe and failing to recognize that this year, the conventional wisdom is askew.

    Many conservatives feel that McCain’s nomination is just as unlikely, just as violative of the conventional wisdom.

    There were huge variances between pre-election polls and actual results during the primaries. Things are going on in the electorate that aren’t following the regular script.

    You seem certain you know what is going to happen in, say, Michigan. With due respect, neither you, nor I, nor anyone reading this blog or commenting on it, knows what’s going to happen in Michigan, or Colorado, or Virginia. McCain versus Obama is already, regardless of running mates, an election matchup which proves that the political “laws of physics” have been changed. Add in another game-changing variable — which I think Sarah Palin would be — and yes, I think it’s entirely possible that a close election could turn into a McCain blow-out. That’s not based on conventional wisdom, but on my assessment of Gov. Palin after having read everything I could find about her and watched her in a couple dozen videos.

    I also think an Obama blow-out is entirely possible, for what that’s worth, and that if McCain flubs this choice, he could start things down that path.

    Your certitude isn’t very impressive, friend, and when you lace it with a double-helping of mockery, you just seem like someone who’s not very much worth trying to hold a conversation with.

    Beldar (7262f6)

  20. I have lived in Michigan all my life…will probably vote for McCain (with great hesitation) in the fall…would be amazed if Michigan went for McCain/Romney.

    This state has become a welfare heaven…the competent are leaving…what’s left mostly wants the government teat.

    Increase Mather (c28cbb)

  21. I like Romney; I voted for him in the primaries.

    But if McCain picks Romney, the Democrats are going to play the class-warfare card for all they’re worth. They’ll paint Biden as the working-class Joe just trying to get a fair shake from the slick CEO. And it’ll stick in far too many people’s minds.

    More class warfare is something we DON’T need. I’d much rather see Beldar’s suggestion of revitalizing the Republican image — Palin especially would be a poke in the eye at the Democrats, that the first woman nominee for VP was a Republican candidate on the same year that the Democrats did NOT nominate the woman who was the “obvious” choice. It might scoop up a lot of independents, especially women, who would have voted for Hilary had she been the Dem nominee.

    Robin Munn (2d5754)

  22. How can anyone question Palin’s experience when Obama is the Democratic nominee?

    She may have less experience than Romney, but she would demonstrate the GOP’s willingness to reach out and provide more long term benefit. Romney is just another white male.

    If McCain runs a better campaign than Obama it makes almost no difference how Palin does against Biden, if it did Dukakis would have defeated Bush in 1988.

    ROA (0155b4)

  23. #21 I agree with you, but a poll commissioned by Lifetime indicated that 20% of those polled would be LESS likely to vote for McCain if he chose a female running mate. Saw the story over at Hotair. Don’t understand the rationale. Are those people misogynists? Other than that, Palin is for ANWR drilling that McCain opposes. Ok, Palin has a child, Trig, with Down’s Syndrome, but is being a veep more arduous than serving as Alaska’s governor? I’m sure many more PUMAs would vote for McCain if he chose Hillary as running mate, but she’d be a ridiculous choice imo. And REALLY, what experience does Hillary actually have that differs from the other senator gasbags? Oh, she visited foreign countries.
    Btw, over at NRO Jay Nordlinger briefly ruminated on Biden. Calls him another Senator Obnoxious in same vein as original Senator Obnoxious Metzenbaum from Ohio. So libs have no candidates in love with their own voice on the ticket and Obama is 2/3 marxist and 1/3 insufferable (make up your own character description for the know-it-all dipshit).

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  24. On wikipedia, under Dan Quayle, maybe a hint at how McCain would see the benefits of a VP candidate Palin:
    At the 1988 Republican National Convention in New Orleans, Louisiana, George H. W. Bush called on Quayle to be his running mate in the general election. Quayle was chosen to appeal to a younger generation of Americans and his good looks were praised by Senator John McCain, who said “I can’t believe a guy that handsome wouldn’t have some impact.”

    m (40be14)

  25. There is a great advantage in a “safe VP” to counter Obama’s fifty-state strategy. To keep the red states red with minimal campaigning and to energize the base. Despite Beldar’s best efforts to educate me I still can’t say that Governor Palin is that choice but she would certainly be a refreshing and exciting presence in the race. I don’t think that Romney would help with the base at all. It’s that “M-word”.

    nk (3c7a86)

  26. I was a Romney supporter for many reasons and truly figured he would have been a much better candidate against Obamessiah than McCain. The O!/Joe Robinette Biden ticket is total Washington/machine politics insiders with not one bit of hands-on-management experience between ’em. Romney has private and gubernatorial experience and has the econ strength that McCain lacks. And he would wipe the stage with Foot-in-mouth Biden in any VP debates.

    However, the dismissal of Romney as “just another white guy” is evident (even as the Left is running around making excuses for Biden’s selection) and certainly the Left will immediately start exploiting Mormonphobia again. Palin does look very good for coming from a gubernatorial/mayorial back ground. She’s young (which would be a huge plus if McCain makes a one-term pledge). My only concern, not having seen any video of Ms. Palin, is how is she in debates or townhall meetings?

    McCain never is at his best in speeches. But he is great in townhall style venues. In stark contrast to O!’s stadium rockstar acceptance oratory, McCain’s acceptance “speech” should be him throwing away his notes, walking to the edge of the stage and saying something like, “Here I am, what more would you like to know about me?” and taking questions from the audience.

    Darleen (187edc)

  27. I’m one of those not at all enamored of Senators becoming President and find cults of personality a total crock. The magic negro fills me with revulsion. He’s another Lurch or algore in some ways. I know black and guilty liberals find the great black hope appealing for their own world view.

    So I think someone with executive experience actually running a business or a state government is best to run the executive branch. The Mormon thing means absolutely nothing to me; ditto for someone’s sex or race. But we know it does mean a big deal to some voters. I can’t stand the Clintons at all, but would find Hillary a big improvement over the big zero magic negro. McCain has many faults inherent in his views on illegal immigration, AGW, campaign finance, Gang of 14 crapola, etc., but one hopes he’d make decent SCOTUS picks at least. This country does not need dems’ class warfare and tax and spend mentality. Kind of amazing how we might well have to face crooked chicago style politics with inside the beltway corruption all wrapped up in a Carter Redux presidency or perhaps it would be McGovern I. Where are the trolls? Do they rest on Sundays?

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  28. I like Romney and favored him at one point in the primaries, but the key problem with him is he’s flip-flopped on so many issues. If you look at YouTube, there’s a clip of him debating Ted Kennedy in ’94 that is jarring to compare to today.

    His ties to Michigan are also so long ago (his father was governor in the 60s) that I think you could make the case that not merely have they faded, but that Michigan has changed into a different state.

    Meg Whitman would depend on how strong any previous statements she’s made on abortion are. If she’s stated pro-choice arguments that you can’t get around, I’d avoid her, but given the fact he mentioned her as one of the three people whose advice he most values at Saddleback I think he has considering her.

    I would if I were him. Besides the possibility of going after Hillary supporters – Obama’s chief line of attack is that McCain is going to be the same old-same old and business as usual. If you stick a woman up there next him, while it’s superficial, that image does a ton to nullify it.

    Out of any other names I’ve heard mentioned, I can’t think of someone who’s popular enough and from a key enough state (that McCain has a chance of winning) to pick – I don’t think he has a good shot at MN, so I wouldn’t go for Pawlenty. I don’t think a Representative is going to make much of a difference anywhere (Cantor). I can’t imagine Ridge is popular enough to take PA. If not Whitman, I still think he’d be a fool not to pick a woman.*

    *Except for Carly Fiorina. Then I’d have to hang myself….

    Anon (db8e0c)

  29. I hoped Romney would make a better showing than he did in the primaries, because I thought he had by far the best resume of any Republican candidate. Unfortunately, he didn’t. He would bring much more experience to the ticket than Palin, but Republicans have an image problem of being a party of white males. Palin would help overcome that problem.

    ROA (0155b4)

  30. I would like to know more about the speaking skills of Palin and Whitman. Business executives, even wildly successful ones, are rarely good speakers or debaters. I really think McCain should consider a choice that is not Romney and not another white guy. I have never connected with Romney even though I thought early on that he had the best chance for the nomination. If McCain chose Palin or Jindal, he could respond to questions about their experience by pointing out that he put the less experienced candidate second on the ticket, instead of at the top.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  31. Palin on youtube.

    m (40be14)

  32. If McCain talks Colin Powell into joining the ticket, they’ll win decisively.

    steve (c88e57)

  33. a woman on the ticket does nothing unless its hillary. the hillary supporters do not want to vote for just any women. especially one who doesnt subscribe to their ideology. the best move for mccain is to keep beating the drum about how bad obama is treating hillary, he will get more of them to vote for him out of spite than on the issues. he should pick a veep who could bring back some of the conservatives he continues to run off every time he opens his mouth.

    chas (e36377)

  34. #31 powell is a horrible pick! he was a terrible SecState. he could have put an end to plame scandal very early on put he didnt and ruined the career of a very good man. he needs to stay out of politics. he managed to navigate his way thru army politics to be come a general but in civilian politics he has been a disaster.

    chas (e36377)

  35. Mike K – He could also point out that Palin or Jindal each have more Executive experience thqn Baracky/Biden combined.

    JD (5f0e11)

  36. #24 – nk

    There is a great advantage in a “safe VP” to counter Obama’s fifty-state strategy.

    — Obama has already abandoned that strategy. One more “he’s a new kind of politician” element down the tubes.

    Icy Truth (c38387)

  37. #21 – ROA

    How can anyone question Palin’s experience when Obama is the Democratic nominee?

    — I don’t see the “she’s just as weak as he is” argument producing happy results.

    Icy Truth (c38387)

  38. Fiorina, Whitman, Powell. What do they have in common? That’s right; none of them are on the list.

    Icy Truth (c38387)

  39. Icy

    Palin is a young governor, but she is the governor of Alaska.

    What comes to mind for most of us in the lower 48 when we think of Alaska? Sort of a “last of the wild frontier” of hardy folks who are no-nonsense survivors in a harsh environment? Alaska as a testosterone-soaked counterpoint to the metrosexual environs of San Francisco and New York?

    Yep. And she’s a woman that was born, raised and has gained the respect of her fellow Alaskans that she is now their governor.

    Makes her street cred on toughness. Much more authentic than Hill.

    Darleen (187edc)

  40. Ironic that even on the right, at a certain point in time, gender/race/age play a part in tactical decisions re a veep choice. Its become a built-in part of this election and probably from here on out. Interesting to see the possibilities evolve.

    I’m for Palin and even if she can’t bulldog like Biden if they debate, he’ll just come off looking like a bully. She is smart, seemingly secure in her politics and her decision making, and yes, being a young woman will help. However, the greater part of me hopes she doesn’t accept if offered. Her family situation seems far more pressing.

    A good Larry Kudlow interview with Palin at the link.

    http://www.thenextright.com/goprebel/drill-drill-drill-larry-kudlows-interview-with-alaska-governor-sarah-palin

    Dana (084de8)

  41. Dick Morris summed it up nicely:
    “Powell, Rice, Lieberman, Huckabee — but not Romney!”

    Official Internet Data Office (066b46)

  42. Ironic that even on the right, at a certain point in time, gender/race/age play a part in tactical decisions re a veep choice.

    Everything plays a tactical part in the pick of VP. VP plays to “balancing” out the perceived weaknesses of the Pres nominee.

    O! went to white older male with experience partly (IMHO) because that’s where he’s weakest in polling. However, O!’s pick of another lawyer/senator still gives him lack of any executive/managerial experience.

    McCain has the same lack due to his long legislative career. And before that he had 20+ years in the military. He needs someone from an executive background.

    Romney/Palin/Jindal would give that; Romney more than the two youngers, but he will be savaged by the Soros’ minions.

    Darleen (187edc)

  43. Oh puhleeze, NOT Huckabee!!!

    Darleen (187edc)

  44. Everything plays a tactical part in the pick of VP. VP plays to “balancing” out the perceived weaknesses of the Pres nominee.

    And that’s whats funny – McCain’s whiteness is a perceived weakness as well as his age and those weaknesses must be counteracted by someone younger, and if possible, a minority – either female or of a different race – along with his need for someone with a strong economic background and executive experience.

    Post-racial, post-gender, post-aegism in an American presidential election? Not quite. These qualities are just necessary marketing tools in the structure.

    Dana (084de8)

  45. Icy @ 36 – Palin has more Executive experience than Baracky and O’Biden combined.

    Dana – I always thought that the mere idea that Baracky was post-racial post-partisan to be beyond laughable. Turns out that appears to be the only ammo in his pea-shooter.

    If he picks Fuckabee or Graham, I will vote for Baracky, out of pure spite.

    JD (5f0e11)

  46. Icy Truth,
    If you won’t vote for McCain because his VP doesn’t have enough experience, why would you vote for Obama, who has even less?

    ROA (0155b4)

  47. The Left is fielding the Democrat Senate All-Star, Salt ‘n Pepper Team. A GOP ticket with McCain and Rice would match them in the condiment category, and one-up ’em on gender.

    Sure, Condi Rice is a bit soft and gullible on national security, but that’s McCain’s strength so that won’t be a drag on the ticket,except to some stuffy neocons. Besides, as second banana, Rice can’t do much to undermine policy anyway. Plus, she’s got a leg up on Biden in terms of actual experience in foreign policy , not just sitting in DC and talking too much.

    Rice could score points on Biden by conceding he’s got more experience talking about foreign policy to his Senate collegues, while her experience has been mostly limited to talking with world leaders.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  48. ROA – Icy ain’t voting for Baracky.

    JD (5f0e11)

  49. #19 – Beldar

    The conventional wisdom certainly wouldn’t have led one to expect a 46-year-old black first-term senator, with no record of legislative accomplishment but among the most liberal records in the Senate, to win the Democratic nomination.
    — Have you seen some of the tools these losers have nominated through the years? Given the fact that over the past 40 years it has been only the two most photogenic and personally appealing candidates that were elected for the Dems, is it any wonder that this time they went with the person who possesses those qualities in abundance? The fact that there is no substance behind that façade is of secondary consideration to them. They’ve put pretty-boy up there alongside the most simplistic and vacuous selling point one could imagine (“Change”) and are counting on the media-age we live in to do the rest of the work for them.

    Hillary Clinton’s demise came from playing it safe and failing to recognize that this year, the conventional wisdom is askew.
    — Hillary’s demise resulted from the arrogance of believing that her nomination was a fait accompli. Not so much that she was the obvious choice (being a female with no executive experience and high negatives how could she assume that?), but that she was due; that it was ‘her turn’ in the rotation.

    Many conservatives feel that McCain’s nomination is just as unlikely, just as violative of the conventional wisdom.
    — The conventional wisdom is that moderate candidates actually win because they attract independent voters.

    There were huge variances between pre-election polls and actual results during the primaries. Things are going on in the electorate that aren’t following the regular script.
    — Polling data must always be regarded dubiously, depending on exactly how the questions are worded and in what order they appear. And what many pundits suspect is “going on in the electorate” is that people are lying to the pollsters; embarrassed by a perception of racism, they are saying that they will vote for Obama when in reality they won’t.

    You seem certain you know what is going to happen in, say, Michigan. With due respect, neither you, nor I, nor anyone reading this blog or commenting on it, knows what’s going to happen in Michigan, or Colorado, or Virginia.
    — So it isn’t okay to give an educated guess? This sounds a bit like love2008 with his/her “you forgot to write JMHO” jazz. As someone who came to my defense in that case pointed out, every post on this blog ends with the generated signature “comment by”. A comment is a remark or an observation; that it is the expression of the poster’s opinion should be a given.

    McCain versus Obama is already, regardless of running mates, an election matchup which proves that the political “laws of physics” have been changed. Add in another game-changing variable — which I think Sarah Palin would be — and yes, I think it’s entirely possible that a close election could turn into a McCain blow-out.
    — There is nothing I would like more than to see that happen, although I stand by “a win is a win”. I have contributed to the McCain campaign and proudly wear a McCain button everywhere I go in public. Seeing your passion on this issue I’m sure that you’ve done the same, so it’s all good.

    That’s not based on conventional wisdom, but on my assessment of Gov. Palin after having read everything I could find about her and watched her in a couple dozen videos.
    — I like Sarah Palin. I believe that in the future she will achieve great things, including possibly becoming the first female POTUS. Not this year though.

    I also think an Obama blow-out is entirely possible, for what that’s worth, and that if McCain flubs this choice, he could start things down that path.
    — I disagree, but that is JMHO.

    Your certitude isn’t very impressive, friend, and when you lace it with a double-helping of mockery, you just seem like someone who’s not very much worth trying to hold a conversation with.
    — Well! Who pissed in your Corn Flakes this morning? I plead guilty to being annoyed with all of the serious consideration, and serious hand-wringing, surrounding these names that are nothing more than red herrings. Has anyone officially connected to the McCain campaign actually suggested that Lieberman is on the list of potential running mates? or has all of the speculation surrounding him been a media rumor, sparked by their simplistic assessment of “they’re great friends and they go everywhere together”? If I mock people in regards to Palin it is because I don’t think she’s on McCain’s list, and maybe never was.

    Patience, people! In 4 or 8 years the absolutely unbeatable Jindal/Palin ticket will come about.

    Icy Truth (c38387)

  50. yup, romney is the guy here

    james conrad (6bb6e6)

  51. When the writers of the Humanist Manifesto took over our universities and law schools under the guise of separation of church and state. The church had nothing to do with the state, but the Western Civilization’s Worldview was based on Christianity not Darwinism.
    The Humanist Manifesto was written in 1933. The father of Western education John Dewey was one of the first signatories. His book, A COMMON FAITH ,1934 Yale University Press was about “the Religion of Darwinian Humanism.” Here is how the book ended,” Here are all the elements for a religious faith that shall not be confined to sect, class, or race. Such a faith has always been implicitly the common faith of mankind. It remains to make it explicit and militant.” The father of the sexual revolution Alfred Kinsey shocked the world with the publication of, SEXUAL BEHAVIOR IN THE HUMAN MALE, in 1948. Dr.Alfred Kinsey’s overall thesis titled “Outlet Sex” placed all sexual acts on the same moral, social, and biological level whether in or out of marriage, between people of the same or opposite sex,or when sex involved even children or amimals. By declaring that “Darwinian science” had found “no value” in traditional sexual morality, the Kinsey Reports,provided the so-called “Darwinian Scientific Foundation” for university sex education classes and the sexual revolution. The minds of our Darwinian humanist professors were already corrupt, and with their textbooks had already started socially engineering their students. They were not interested in separating the church from the state, because the church was already separated from the state. They started the process of separating Western Civilization from Christianity, and to institutionalized atheism through Darwinian Humanism. The consequences of this on our justice system, education, entertainment, music, art, media and society are dire. We have become a pagan nation with all the power in the hands of the Darwinian Humanist Institutionalized Atheist Supreme Court. We have a few good Justices, but they are out-numbered by atheists. That is exactly what the authors of the Humanist Manifesto wanted, and now have it.
    This institutionalized atheism has most of our citizens in a drug induced type of mind-set where they live according to Darwin’s theory or any way they want. These Darwinian Humanist beliefs have permeated our culture, and they have a profound effect on the behavior of our society. Opening closed brainwashed minds is not easy , but it can be done. My friends asked me to research the consequences of the Humanist Manifesto on Western Society. I am glad they did. I don’t know how we can take back the schools from the Darwinian Humanists, but if we are to save our children and society form this “evil” social engineering we must. Getting involved in politics to change bad laws and put in good ones is one answer. Who will do this McCain or Obama?

    Garry Sahl (1bd437)

  52. chas (#32) wrote:

    a woman on the ticket does nothing unless its hillary. the hillary supporters do not want to vote for just any women. especially one who doesnt subscribe to their ideology.

    We’re talking here about something on the order of 50-60 million voters. Some number of Hillary supporters — probably numbering in the millions — were attracted to her mostly because she was a woman than because of any of her policies. Some further number of women (and men) who weren’t Hillary supporters — because of her policies — nevertheless took pleasure in watching her near-success.

    Some overlapping number from those two groups, plus (in my estimation) several million additional Americans, would conclude, as they became acquainted with Sarah Palin, that there are excellent reasons why she’s more popular with her constituents than any other politician in America right now. The absence of a Y-chromosome actually isn’t very high on that list. She’s a genuine 21st Century phenomenon — a highly successful and accomplished woman politician who wasn’t any politician’s wife or daughter. In contrast to Hillary Clinton, who fired the White House travel staff so she could replace them with loyal Clintonistas, Sarah Palin fired (or, actually, transferred) the Alaska Governor’s Mansion chef because she and her husband would rather cook for themselves and their kids.

    Folks, if you’re not well acquainted with Gov. Palin, spend just a little time finding out about her. (Here is a good place to start.) She and Bobby Jindal are the most exciting young prospects in the GOP, but in neither case is it because of their “minority” status.

    Beldar (7262f6)

  53. ROA –
    As I pointed out to Beldar, I am a card-carrying (okay — button wearing) campaign contributing (how many of you can say the same?), enthusiastic John McCain supporter. I live in Arizona and have voted for McCain all four times that he’s run for the Senate. In other forums, such as some of the blogs at Townhall for example, I sometimes feel like the only enthusiastic McCain supporter in a sea of “I’ll hold my nose and vote for him” or “He’s not a true conservative” and other far right-wing and libertarian narrow-mindedness.

    McCain’s VP choice will not affect my vote at all. I mean excuse me but, how the hell did you derive form anything I’ve written that I would actually consider voting for that Marxist piece of crap?

    Obama Nation = abomination

    Obama bin Biden™

    John McCain 2008

    Icy Truth (c38387)

  54. from anything”

    Icy Truth (c38387)

  55. Despite the Dems and the allied main stream media’s desperation to see Romney as McCain’s Veep, Mitt is clearly out, with (1) Obama doubling down on the class warfare theme (McCain’s 7 houses) and (2) McCain doubling down with ads showing the hypocrisy of Biden attacking Obama in the primaries — Romney did way more than that contra McCain.

    This leaves only Govs Sarah Palin and Tim Pawlenty. Pro-abortion Ridge and Dem-Lieberman were never real considerations, despite relentless media goading. Pawlenty’s lackluster TV performances, coupled with Palin pizzazz, the primacy of oil drilling and the ticked off women/Hillary voters, does now portend a McCain/Palin checkmate on the Dems. This is so albeit the Dems and liberal media dare not mention Palin’s name, that is, everyone but…..

    And if there’s any question as to Palin being uniquely positioned and able to more than nullify Biden in debate, see the excellent discussion at palinforvp.blogspot.com

    Team McCain, well done!!!

    Ted (429bc3)

  56. Icy, I apologize. I wasn’t specifically referring to you. What I wanted to say is that if someone would not vote for McCain because his VP choice was inexperienced, how could that person vote for Obama?

    ROA (0155b4)

  57. Personal pronouns are . . . well, personal. Replace the first “you” in your sentence with “some people” and the second one with “they” and it’s all good.

    This has been your grammar-cop moment of the day — sponsored by Obama bin Biden™
    [BTW, Cafe Press is already selling Obama bin Biden T-shirts and bumper stickers. I claim no authorship rights on the phrase, but I was one of the first to use it and I didn’t read it anywhere else first.]

    Icy Truth (c38387)

  58. Biden and Barack: Dope and Change

    Icy Truth (c38387)

  59. #57
    Malkin is going with Smarmy and Smirky in ’08.

    “The only thing standing between Biden and the presidency is his mouth.”

    And what’s with the story about Biden not really being shot at? Lots of stories at http://www.michellemalkin.com

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  60. Smarmy and Smirky in ‘08

    — Which is which?

    Icy Truth (c38387)

  61. #51 – because she is a LIBERAL woman. these same feminists regularly trash republican women and turn a blind eye to any woman who isnt part of their ideological circle. they arent voting for any woman on a republican ticket who aint for abortion, taxes and impeaching bush.

    chas (e36377)

  62. Mitt for VP! The best choice by FAR. Who else has the intellect and ability to think on their feet like Mitt? The VP candidate will need that ability in a debate with Biden.

    Cory (6b4784)

  63. 60- aren’t they interchangeable?

    Um and Dumber?

    Biden + Obama = Obimbo

    Is Obama just Biden time?

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  64. The financial affairs of McCain and his wife have been governed by a prenuptial agreement since they were married. And from what I understand, McCain’s wife–individually, through a revocable trust, through an irrevocable trust that she created, or through an irrevocable trust created under her parents’ estate plan–is the only one of them with either a legal or beneficial interest in any family residences. Further, it appears that McCain has use of only three of these residence–at least two have nothing to do with McCain–the condo for the aunt and the condo for the daughter.

    Does anyone have a link to something that lays all this out? I’m stunned that the McCain’s camp has not issued a fact sheet fleshing this out.

    Cindy McCain has money stemming from a successful, second-generation family business. Why are Democrats crucifying McCain for this?

    SAM (d671ab)

  65. How about:

    — Really Proud and Really Old
    — Barack, Joe, and Michelle; America’s Oreo™
    — Black & White and Politically Dead All Over
    — Biden ’08; Celebrating 20 Years Of Failed Presidential Bids
    — Obama/Biden – Which One Is The Token?
    — Military Experience? We Don’t Need No Stinking Military Experience!
    — Barack Has Found His ‘Uncle Joe’ (Not Stalin, But Close Enough)
    — 1973: Joe Biden Finds Himself in the US Senate; Barack Obama ‘Finds Himself’ in the Privacy Of His Bedroom [Think about it; he was 12 at the time.]
    — Joe Biden – Consistently Delivering All 3 of Delaware’s Electoral Votes to the Democratic Candidate
    — Typical White Person meets Typical Politician
    — Joe Biden Knows His ABC’s – Articulate, Bright, and Clean
    — Hope and Change meets Whore and Lame
    — Change We Can Believe In meets Choice Nobody Can Believe
    — The Messiah and The Mess

    Icy Truth (c38387)

  66. #64 – SAM

    Why are Democrats crucifying McCain for this?

    — Because the rich are all evil robber-barons bent on oppressing the proletariat. Did you not receive the Manifesto . . . er, memo?

    Icy Truth (c38387)

  67. Beldar, @ 11:39a,

    I took a good look at Palin. She’s impressive, but doesn’t fit the job description. She’s not ready to lead the country if necessary. Sure, she’ll help win the election, but that’s not enough.

    It’s nothing against her, she’s obviously on-track to lead us, but she’s not there yet. Same with Bambi, and there’s no reason to let him off the hook by providing a false comparison.

    McCain needs a VP who is already seen as qualified to step-up to the Oval Office, and who can balance the GOP ticket.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  68. My guess is the McCain camp just wants to let this die.

    It also (on the Democratic side) stems from an insecurity they have about being pasted as elitists over the past few elections. At heart, they still see themselves as being for the little guy (and the Republicans as being a bunch of rich fat cats), so attacks like the Republicans launched on Kerry become a real annoyance. Add to that the problems Obama had in getting working class people to vote for him in the primaries and his “bitter, religious, people clinging to their guns” remark and they’re just itching for a way to say “see! See! It’s them, not us.”

    The problem is that rich doesn’t necessarily equal elitist and (if you can be avoid being tagged as the latter) the former isn’t that big a problem.

    I think a lot of people assume the Bush family is actually far richer than it is, but GW has never come across as a snob, so it’s never really been a problem.

    Anon (db8e0c)

  69. Yes, as if Obama and Biden took a vow of poverty and live like paupers. How much money did the clintons and obama rake in through book deals? Who is the elitist filthy rich, class warfare/raise your taxes hypocrite here? How many homes does John F/N Lurch’s heiress wife own? How big is Gore’s Tenn. mansion which uses the energy of what 22 normal homes would? And should we give lyin’ Joe Biden utmost sympathy because his wife and daughter in an accident long ago?

    Btw, fwiw, that undead creature Zombie, from http://www.zombietime.com will be dispatching from the Denver convention for LGF and Pajamas media. Already there are security issues with protestors.

    Hope she’s wrong, but Lopez at NRO seems to think Huckabee is the obvious veep choice. If so, and McCain is elected, I hope he lasts the whole term.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  70. This would be more of that idle wheel-spinning speculation of which I spoke. Huckabee positively sunk himself when he made that ‘joke’ about Obama and assassination before the NRA.

    No chance.

    Icy Truth (c38387)

  71. If McCain picks Huckabee part of the Conservative base walks away. They’ll still likely vote GOP, but they won’t send money or walk precincts.

    MSM sees Bambi’s on the skids, and will do everything they can to sucker McCain into a major blunder.

    Put Condi Rice on the ticket and this election is McCain in a cakewalk.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  72. The official nickname for the Democratic ticket is “Clean and Jerk.”

    Official Internet Data Office (413792)

  73. No disrespect to Mr. Huckabee, but he is Bambi without the Tragic Life Story of a Boy Raised in Hawaii.

    How about someone with some sold, conservative leadership skills.

    I admire Ms. Rice for her intelligence & fluency, but she is not really a politician.

    George Bush, Sr., used his credentials in policy and administration to get to the presidency. Ms. Rice isn’t at that level yet.

    steve miller (4b2f43)

  74. It is going to be pretty hilarious next week, after the convention is over. I think that the 527’s are going to have a great time slashing Obama and Biden with attack ads. Between Obama’s dirty laundry with Ayers and Biden’s multitude of verbal diarrhea, it is going to be a target rich environment and I think the Democrats have no clue what is about to hit them.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  75. BTW, Condi doesn’t have to accept the VP spot. All McCain has to do is offer it to her openly, sincerely, and in full public view.

    She can say no if that’s her decision. McCain still gets the respect and admiration of women voters and blacks pretty much across the political spectrum, and it drives a wedge between Bambi and 2 key constituent groups he needs to win.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  76. “I’d welcome Lieberman, but supposedly conservatives won’t accept him.”

    SUPPOSEDLY?!?!
    ACU rating no bigger than a shoe size Lib-Dem Leiberman would be an outright fricking disaster. We Republicans dont help out a candidate who’s already a maverick just to put in an understudy who’s a liberal Dem, giving the Dem Congress instant bait for impeachment.

    And please stop with the crack-pipe smoking over Meg Whitman too. It’s like suggesting a Mike Huckabee / Chuck Norris ticket.

    Condi Rice? Bushs poodle will not work this year. Let her run for office in CA for senate or gov.

    Job prerequisites – you have won office as a Republican or won a major war.
    Palin, Romney, Sanford, Cantor, Portman, Cox.

    Romney may well be the best pick, although I like Palin too.

    Oh and quoting Dick Morris, the idiot who foisted teh Huckabubble on us, should be considered an *endorsement* of Romney. Morris hated Romney for all the wrong reasons. Maybe its a mormon thing, i dunno, but for a guy who worked for Bill Clinton *and* Trent Lott to accuse successful businessman Romney of being fake is so rich in irony you could mine and sell it.

    Freedoms Truth (cfa2f1)

  77. Somebody has been smoking rope.

    Icy Truth (c38387)

  78. Bambi, Joe Biden, and John McCain are sitting Senators, members of the Legislative Branch. All 3 are career politians without significent executive experience, let alone Executive Branch experience.

    McCain has an opportunity to add a powerful element to the GOP ticket: experience!

    If the theme of this election is youth vs experience, McCain should play to his strength.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  79. Icy (#41): An impressive reply. I’d quibble on a couple of points (e.g., what you cite as conventional wisdom about moderates is true for general elections, but not primaries). But even though we disagree on some particulars, I applaud your passion and articulate presentation.

    Beldar (7262f6)

  80. Condi Rice has Executive Brannch experience.

    Wouldn’t it be nice with McCain and Rice?

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  81. 78 Ropelight- and who has that executive experience? Mitt Romney worked with dems in Mass., straightened out the potential Olympic Games financial mess in Utah and successful ran private business. Rudy Guliani did a great job turning NYC around, was inspirational handling 911 afermath and earlier was tenacious in fighting organized crime in New York.

    What did Obama ever accomplish positively other than raising campaign funds and finding a publisher to give him windfall cash for his so-called literary genius? Speaking of which, I wonder if the Clinton tomes earned back enough to justify their up front payoffs?
    Going back to Saddleback debate and the way dipshit obama (sorry, I don’t care if he’s a sitting senator and likely nominee for potus, he a big crooked and incompetent asshole to me) spoke ill of Clarence Thomas, I’d like the obamatard apologists here to address why liberals treat minorities who stray from the liberal plantation as turncoats and vilify them? I blame McCain also for his gang of 14 compromise. A fine jurist like Janice Rogers Brown was thrown under the bus and Miquel Estrada was attacked also, while the white man Roberts eventually won approval (deservedly so). Sorry, but I have no respect for liberals in Congress, especially evil pricks like Borker fatboy Kennedy and SEn. Obnoxious Biden.

    madmax333 (0c6cfc)

  82. Ms. Rice, although having executive experience as the Provost at Stanford, and as Sec of State, has not demonstrated the toughness needed to bring dissent within her areas of responsiblity to heel, and get the bureaucracies under her to move in the direction set by the policy deciders.

    Another Drew (03674a)

  83. McCain has enough experience to carry the ticket on that score. The voters who choose based on that are already his, or will be if they’re capable of being persuaded by any Republican nominee.

    Of course I wish Sarah Palin or Bobby Jindal had another four to eight years of experience to their credit. Or I wish Fred Thompson was 20 years younger and twice as motivated. The candidates who are in the right age range with somewhat longer lists of credentials don’t have credentials which are that much better, and they’re just dull and uninspiring as they can be. They would be defensive choices, uninspired and uninspiring choices, and a missed opportunity.

    I can still remember the damage that one dreadful Democratic president — one who Barack Obama very much reminds me of — in only one term, from 1977 to 1981. I was entering the work force then, and the future looked incredibly bleak: 18% interest rates, 18% inflation, and 10% unemployment (or something in those general ranges, it’s too painful for me to go back and check), with America’s international prestige at a historic low and its military forces crippled by self-doubt and lack of public support. With due respect to those who argue “Wait until 2012,” I just don’t think we have that luxury. Circumstances compel the McCain to take risks; if he refuses to recognize that, he’s going to repeat BoB Dole’s performance in 1996.

    McCain says his hero is Teddy Roosevelt. Roosevelt was the youngest president in the history of the nation, and he was elected to the vice presidency with the same amount of time-in-office as a state governor as Sarah Palin has now. He managed to do well enough to get his face on Mount Rushmore, even though he didn’t have the perfect resume to be a “heartbeat from the presidency” when he was elected vice president.

    Beldar (7262f6)

  84. Palin beat the corrupt Republican governor in the primary and held off the corrupt Democrat ex-governor in the general to win her office.

    After cleaning up the MatSu bourough seat of Wasilla (a very big deal in Alaska).

    Can you see John McCain NOT liking that?

    McCain-Palin: Real reform, versus Mr. Wink and Mr. Nod.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  85. I agree with Beldar. I said on an earlier thread that if Obama didn’t make a selection blatantly catering to the disenfranchised ex-Hillary supporter, then McCain would pick a female VP, trying to split a significant chunk off a Democratic base. Palin is a good pick from a gender viewpoint, as a counterbalance to McCain, and as an individual massively popular in her own party (and in the opposing party, from the sound of things).

    So, with Obama’s selection of Biden, we’ll see if the prediction pans out.

    Leviticus (2c47fc)

  86. #81, Sure Romney has experience, and is clearly the best man for the job, but he’s a white male. Bambi’s campaign will, if given half a chance, hammer the GOP as racist and neglectful of the concerns of minorities and women. Dems want to make race the issue, the GOP doesn’t.

    #82, Condi would be VP. Your poins are misplaced, POTUS sets the tone and runs the administration, not the VP.

    #83, McCain does not have the executive experience to “carry the ticket,” not one of the 3 Senators does. Condi Rice has executive experience both inside and outside governmant service, plus she’s a black woman. The credentials she brings to the table are powerful exclusively hers, and should not be dismissed lightly.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  87. #80 – Ropelight

    Wouldn’t it be nice with McCain and Rice?

    — Yeah, but I hope there wouldn’t be any Long McCain Rice (or Long McGrian and Wild Rice) jokes.

    All of which is moot because she will not be the pick.

    Icy Truth (f54eb3)

  88. Beldar –

    Thank you for the kind words before, but let’s be realistic here:

    Roosevelt was the youngest president in the history of the nation, and he was elected to the vice presidency with the same amount of time-in-office as a state governor as Sarah Palin has now.

    — TR’s pre-gubernatorial accomplishments are a bit more substantive than Palin’s. New York State Assemblyman, New York City Police Commissioner, US Civil Service Commissioner, Asst Sec of the Navy . . . oh, and something about the Rough Riders and charging up San Juan Hill. I’m afraid I’m gonna have to call that a trump over being Mayor of Wasilla, Alaska – population: 8500.

    Icy Truth (f54eb3)

  89. Ice, please see my #75. Condi doesn’t have to be on the ticket. McCain just hase to be seen offering her the VP spot to make headway with women and minorities. It also immunizes McCain from Dem charges of racism and sexism.

    It also puts Bambi in a Catch 22 situation. Advantage McCain, no matter if she says yea or nay. It’s good politics, a winner, and McCain should consider it well.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  90. As quickly as you thought it up is how quickly the Dems will pounce and label it a sham,a ploy, and a token (that’s right, I said it) offer. Do you realize how much fair use footage there is of Condi telling political TV show hosts that she will not run under any circumstances? They could do a half-hour on her back-and-forth sparring with Russert alone.

    Put it this way: if you’re in a stand-up comedy competition, the last thing you need to do is feed your rival a straight-line.

    Icy Truth (f54eb3)

  91. No, no no to Condi Rice.

    No candidate with the phrase “Bush Administration Official” should be considered for the VP job. JoeBama intends to make this election a referrendum on GW Bush and if they succeed, they WILL win. Picking ANYONE from this administration will play right into their hands. No exceptions.

    Sean P (e57269)

  92. I can point the horses in the right direction, but that’s about it.

    #90, people can change positions when conditions change. Joe Biden changed his mind and justified it by pointing to his IQ. Condi’s got him on that score.

    #91, poppycock! Continuity is the best way to build on the successes of the Bush administration. Condi will be ready on day one.

    Errors can be addressed, but there’s no good reason to throw out the baby with the bath water. I’m no fan of Bush II, but let’s not be so stupid as to throw away good progress just because some idiots don’t like the current POTUS.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  93. I personally like Ms. Palin and I am the typical red-neck, southern man.

    I think it is time for a good woman to be in the White House, as part of the administration, and Ms. Palin fits the description.

    I do have an issue thought with Ms. Palin. I don’t know if she can pass the vetting process with the current accusaton against her in Alaska, regarding alledged mis-use of her office.

    If Ms. Palin can be cleared before the convention, I would hope the GOP would select her as the VP for Senator McCain.

    JJ (a269e8)


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