Gravel: Terrorize This Prosecutor Who Is Fighting Terrorism
A convicted terrorism supporter is being held in contempt for refusing to testify in front of a grand jury. Mike Gravel tells an audience to, essentially, terrorize the prosecutor:
Find out where he lives. Find out where his office is. If you’ve got some chutzpah – which is a word that you don’t hear often – if you’ve really got it, find out where he lives, find out where his kids go to school, find out where his office is; picket him all the time. Call him a racist in signs if you see him. Call him an injustice. Call him whatever you want to call him, but in his face all the time. They can’t take the heat; deliver it to them. We have to stop laying down to these injustices.
Find out where his kids go to school?
This is what Gravel says to an audience of people supporting someone who has been convicted of supporting terrorists?
Thanks to Pat Riotic.
Even in politics, there’s no fool like an old fool!
Another Drew (071b91) — 8/6/2008 @ 10:24 pmLet’s ask Jeff Goldstein what he thinks about this.
DRJ (9d1be2) — 8/6/2008 @ 10:34 pmCall him a racist in signs if you see him.
— Paging JD . . .
Icy Truth (383bff) — 8/6/2008 @ 11:07 pmCan I question his patriotism?
Perfect Sense (9d1b08) — 8/6/2008 @ 11:08 pmHarass his children, terrorize their school. Somewhere in there is a prison sentence, or in some neighborhoods a bullet for Gavel, not recommended but possible. Quite possible if my children attended a school terrorized by the fool. There is not 12 people in anytown USA that would convict anyone of anything. Probably give them an award for doing away with a rabid dog.
Scrapiron (d671ab) — 8/6/2008 @ 11:15 pmThat’s a former Democrat candidate for President.
Obama? Obama?
Crickets.
WLS (4ab682) — 8/6/2008 @ 11:22 pmThe current left talking point to refute this is that the ‘find out where his kids go to school’ line is meant to root out private schools, where the prosecutor is a fat-cat. Obviously that is a load of crap.
Funny how all these bizarre defenses come up, though.
If Gravel is not currently in police custody, then a police department’s chief needs to lose his job.
Juan (4cdfb7) — 8/7/2008 @ 1:02 amForgive my broken-record impression, but I think you should file this under Scum. Because that’s what Gravel is, for what he said.
Alan (c61d4e) — 8/7/2008 @ 4:51 amMr. Gravel? That line you weren’t supposed to cross? It was waaaaaaay back there, Sir.
TheNewGuy (114368) — 8/7/2008 @ 5:05 amGravel’s remarks, at least when taken out of context, do sound at the very least inflammatory. That said, I found the following paragraph from the linked story interesting:
Gravel’s remarks should not be dismissed as idle chatter, said Dennis Lormel, a retired FBI agent who established a terrorism financing unit within the Bureau. While it’s fair game to suggest picketing the U.S. Attorney’s Office, “I get extremely concerned for an agent or a prosecutor when someone says, ‘Find out where he lives. Find out where his family goes to school.’ At that point you’ve crossed the line.“
I guess I just find it funny/ironic/sad these days when federal law enforcement claims they have a right to privacy.
Phil (6d9f2f) — 8/7/2008 @ 5:06 amYup, Phil. Incredibly ironic. Prosecutor’s kids should be targeted.
This coming from the guy that calls us racists for being against illegal immigration, and suggests that all we want to do is kill, jail, or oppress minorities.
SHOCKA that you would defend Gravel.
Racists
JD (75f5c3) — 8/7/2008 @ 5:38 amDo I see a pattern here? How old is Gravel? Oh, yeah the word “dirt” comes to mind. Let’s see… What about the Senator Ted Stevens? Yeah, the Republican one who’s been indicted? He’s way past retirement age too isn’t he? Hmm, maybe we should force politicians out of office and public life the way corporate America gently nudges us out the door when we’ve outlived our usefulness. Too many brain disorders happen after say, 70 years old. Not PC of me, but I say, adios señior!
Psyberian (9f6817) — 8/7/2008 @ 5:47 amPhil, I’m having a hard time finding any context in which Gravel’s remarks aren’t inflammatory.
What Gravel describes is the same tactic used by militant anti-abortion groups and animal rights groups. It’s beyond deplorable, and I’m disgusted that you would find some way to mitigate it.
Steverino (1dda08) — 8/7/2008 @ 5:50 amPhil,
How about we do this, “Find out where Phil lives. Find out where Phil’s office is. If you’ve got some chutzpah – which is a word that you don’t hear often – if you’ve really got it, find out where Phil lives, find out where Phil’s kids go to school, find out where Phil’s office is; picket Phil all the time. Call Phil a racist in signs if you see him. Call him an injustice. Call Phil whatever you want to call him, but in his face all the time. Phil can’t take the heat; deliver it to Phil!”
Do you get it now, Phil?
PCD (5c49b0) — 8/7/2008 @ 6:03 amSteverino – Does it surprise you?
JD (75f5c3) — 8/7/2008 @ 6:03 amHow would the Hon. Mr. Gravel feel if someone were to kidnap and murder one of his family?
Isn’t that what la Costra Nostra does frequently to judges and/or their families in Sicily?
The Dems sure have their quota of crazies. Sometimes I point out the insane behavior of liberals to other liberals and they will rationalize it. Tell me Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld will hopefully be publicly hanged for their malicious crimes against humanity. How can a skank like that AirheadAmerica moonbat Rhodes get away with calling for assassination on public airwaves?
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/7/2008 @ 6:04 amHave you recently suffered a brain injury?
Federal employees have the exact same rights you do, bucko.
In the case of Federal judges and prosecutors, they have a long list of horrible people who have done horrible things wanting to “get back at” the judge who followed the law.
Probably a third of the job for Deputy US Marshals is protection of people involved in the federal courts.
I hope Gravel enjoys the LONG talks with them folks. And I hope he enjoys the federal rap he deserves for those comments.
And Christ on a cracker, I kind of agree with Psyberian…
I feel kinda dirty now…
Scott Jacobs (425810) — 8/7/2008 @ 6:04 amComment by PCD — 8/7/2008 @ 6:03 am
+1
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/7/2008 @ 6:06 amLiberal Rule #686
Liberals never say bad things, they are just “taken out of context.”
tyree (b93d7c) — 8/7/2008 @ 6:18 amI’d always sort of liked Gravel, even when he was bomb-chucking, but this is way beyond the pale.
There’s no person this is appropriate to do to. Never. “Find out where he lives. Find out where his kids go to school,” is asking for real, serious trouble.
Gravel should be shunned by everyone.
–JRM, who had a good trial result
JRM (355c21) — 8/7/2008 @ 6:20 amJRM –
Good trial result? Were you one of the guys Patrick was prosecuting? 🙂
Scott Jacobs (425810) — 8/7/2008 @ 6:32 amI would suggest that Phil read up on the Federal judge here that was stalked by a disgruntled defendent, who not only found out where she lived and where her children went to school, but proceeded to break into her home and kill all of the family members present, along with the judge later that evening. Quite ironic, huh, Phil?
You’re a scumbag, Phil.
Dmac (874677) — 8/7/2008 @ 7:19 amFederal employees have the exact same rights you do, bucko.
Yeah, that was kinda my point — that a (former) federal agent was worried about the privacy of another federal agent, in light of the complete lack of respect federal law has had for privacy of citizens recently. I meant nothing personal against the agent of course — he doesn’t make the laws.
What Gravel describes is the same tactic used by militant anti-abortion groups and animal rights groups. It’s beyond deplorable, and I’m disgusted that you would find some way to mitigate it.
Get a grip. The guy was speaking, not acting. How many people do what Mike Gravel tells them to do, anyway? “Beyond deplorable”? Really?
But then again, the whole point of this post was to foment outrage and self-rightousness. So go ahead and be outraged. Enjoy yourself. Shiver with ecstacy at how right you are, and how wrong Mike Gravel is.
Phil (6d9f2f) — 8/7/2008 @ 7:21 amPhil is his usual irrational self.
Now, you all can return to killing, jailing, and oppressing brown people.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/7/2008 @ 7:26 amFunny. The dems told me that Rush Limbaugh was responsible for the Oklahoma City bombing.
And he never said anything remotely as inflammatory as Gravel.
TomB (c3f8e5) — 8/7/2008 @ 7:35 amGet a grip. The guy was speaking, not acting. How many people do what Mike Gravel tells them to do, anyway? “Beyond deplorable”? Really?
Comment by Phil — 8/7/2008 @ 7:21 am
So…if some crazy person decides to go a little too far, and happens to mention Mike Gravel’s urging by name, then…conservative talk radio should be blamed, I guess.
“Speaking, not acting” tends to turn into “code” or “provocation” (or “creating a climate” for violence – see linked article) when it’s words liberals don’t like. Wonder why the double standard.
“Beyond deplorable”? Really?
Yes, really.
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/7/2008 @ 7:49 amno one you know – Just get back to oppressing, killing, or jailing brown people. Quit wasting this valuable time! 😉
JD (75f5c3) — 8/7/2008 @ 7:55 amno one you know – Just get back to oppressing, killing, or jailing brown people. Quit wasting this valuable time!
Comment by JD — 8/7/2008 @ 7:55 am
Or all three. I’m efficient. 🙂
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 8/7/2008 @ 7:58 amGet a grip. The guy was speaking, not acting. How many people do what Mike Gravel tells them to do, anyway? “Beyond deplorable”? Really?
Comment by Phil — 8/7/2008 @ 7:21 am
Tell that to the Klan guy from Fallbrook CA (who was the Dem nominee for Congress in his district – his name escapes me – this was in the 80’s IIRC) who was convicted for essentially “incitement to riot” though no riot ensued in the crowd gathered on private property in OR for a cross burning.
Another Drew (16e81f) — 8/7/2008 @ 8:15 amHe went to the slam, and then they went after him in civil court and BK’ed him – took everything!
All he did was speak his mind – a sick one admittedly – but words, not action!
Free speech should be a guaranteed right, of course – but when you openly advocate physical intimidation and threating actions against anyone you happen to disagree with, then you’ve crossed so far over into no – man’s land that nothing justifies that type of behavior. The fact that it’s directed against an officer of the court makes it all the more heinous.
Dmac (874677) — 8/7/2008 @ 8:17 am” in light of the complete lack of respect federal law has had for privacy of citizens recently.”
Phil – I think you should make that “my perceived imaginary paranoid delusional lack of respect” federal law has had for privacy…..
Just to make it clear you are expressing your own opinion and not stating a fact.
daleyrocks (d9ec17) — 8/7/2008 @ 8:25 amWhat an ironic contrast:
When MSNBC reporter David Shuster stated that Chelsea Clinton was being pimped out for her mom, he was excoriated and MSNBC prez told by Clinton,
“Nothing justifies the kind of debasing language that David Shuster used and no temporary suspension or half-hearted apology is sufficient,”
And Chelsea was a legal adult voluntarily campaigning for her mother. She freely put herself front and center and one would think fair game.
Contrast that with Mike Gavel’s advocation of terrorizing a family. He mentions finding out where the kids go to school, so I’m going to assume they are minors, not in the public eye, not freely putting themselves front and center in direct relation to their dad’s capacity as a federal prosecutor.
Where is the outcry from every politician and MSM? This is beyond deplorable. Really.
Dana (b4a26c) — 8/7/2008 @ 8:48 amPhil, you were asked a direct question by PCD in #14. Your next comment, over an hour later, failed to include a response.
So how about it, what have you got say? Don’t be shy, come on out and tell us what you really believe, speak the truth.
Ropelight (cb4838) — 8/7/2008 @ 8:55 amCongratulations on your good trial result, JRM.
Patterico (61b15a) — 8/7/2008 @ 9:24 amPatterico, JRM: I’ve also always sorta liked Gravel, although I couldn’t bring myself to vote for him.
But … taking your dispute with a public official as an excuse to harass his children is unacceptable.
It’s rude and somewhat obnoxious to harass the prosecutor, but it’s also on some level within bounds. Harassing his family isn’t, and it’s somewhat shocking to hear a former Senator advocate it.
aphrael (e0cdc9) — 8/7/2008 @ 9:30 am#32 which congressional bozo outed the CIA interrogater’s name, the better for al quaeda to be aware of it? I don’t recall any censure there either. And yet, the media and the left went ballistic over the BS Valerie Wilson super secret agent outing. Both Wilsons lied through their teeth about the whole affair and were actually embracing the limelight beforehand.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/7/2008 @ 9:32 amGravel is a loon. How big of a loon? Big enough that George McGovern passed him over for VP in 1972.
Gravel had his name placed in nomination at the convention anyway, and he seconded his own nomination. After which he broke down on the convention floor and had a good long cry.
The Democratic Party being what it is, he came in third on the ballot.
Glen Wishard (02562c) — 8/7/2008 @ 9:40 amRemember when a disturbed man took hostages at the Hillary Clinton campaign office in Rochester, New Hampshire? (November 30, 2007)
That day I posted a comment to a blog entry on the story at the TalkingPointsMemo-ElectionCentral blog. It read: “Man! Mike Gravel will do anything to get attention!” Other comment writers on that left-leaning blog were appalled that I would suggest such a thing, even in jest.
I wonder what they’re thinking now.
Icy Truth (23d64b) — 8/7/2008 @ 9:45 amPsyberian #12,
You are, mostly, wrong. When a person’s intellectual capacity deteriorates, because of senile or precocious dementia, his basic nature remains. A good person remains good, a bad person remains bad. If Gravel’s remarks are due to loss of intellectual capacity all it means is that he can no longer hide the fact that he has always been a crazy-mean sonofabitch.
nk (e38352) — 8/7/2008 @ 9:50 amMoonbat Phil:
Not very many, as a percentage of the population, but then again, it doesn’t take very many to cause a tremendous amount of damage.
Yes, really. “Deplorable” is right about where you sit on the spectrum, for for excusing Gravel’s inexcusable behavior. Actually committing the behavior in question is, almost by definition, “beyond” that.
Xrlq (b71926) — 8/7/2008 @ 10:14 amDemocrats would come unglued if this had been an anti-abortion leader asking followers to focus on abortion doctors’ kids, and they would be right to be upset. All it takes is one leftist Eric Rudolph who thinks Gravel has a good idea and decides to act on it with violence.
DRJ (9d1be2) — 8/7/2008 @ 10:27 amYes, really. “Deplorable” is right about where you sit on the spectrum, for for excusing Gravel’s inexcusable behavior. Actually committing the behavior in question is, almost by definition, “beyond” that.
Oh I get it — because I’m not joining you in a big circle-jerk of incredulous, breathless condemnation (the same one you guys have just about every day here over something or other somebody you don’t like said about somebody you do like) I’m “excusing” him.
You all are like a bunch of gossipy high-school girls — “oh my GAWD, he did NOT say that!”
Phil,
How about we do this, “Find out where Phil lives. Find out where Phil’s office is. If you’ve got some chutzpah – which is a word that you don’t hear often – if you’ve really got it, find out where Phil lives, find out where Phil’s kids go to school, find out where Phil’s office is; picket Phil all the time. Call Phil a racist in signs if you see him. Call him an injustice. Call Phil whatever you want to call him, but in his face all the time. Phil can’t take the heat; deliver it to Phil!”
Do you get it now, Phil?
Uh, you just did it. Pardon me for not peeing my pants in terror.
Phil (6d9f2f) — 8/7/2008 @ 11:19 amThe answer would be: no, Phil does not get that the kind of harassment that Gravel recommends, is unacceptable. Deplorable, even.
And that’s your shame, Phil. I agree that there is a lot of choir-preaching around here, but inanities like your’s are not an anodyne – they just prompt lots of deserved abuse-heaping, and not a lot of interesting dialog.
At least, I don’t find the abuse interesting. YMMV
JSinAZ (a62f7c) — 8/7/2008 @ 12:01 pmthe kind of harassment that Gravel recommends, is unacceptable. Deplorable, even
Among the suggested punishments for Gravel’s speech are having him thrown in jail, or shot.
So should I be more outraged over the kind of harassment “that Gravel recommends” or the kind that you guys recommend?
I prefer people picketing my kid’s school over jail/death. YMMV.
But you know, when someone suggests that people protest an prosecutor’s misconduct, I suppose the proportional response IS to have them jailed or killed. In Iran, and here in neo-con land.
Phil (6d9f2f) — 8/7/2008 @ 12:16 pmBut you know, when someone suggests that people protest an prosecutor’s misconduct, I suppose the proportional response IS to have them jailed or killed.
What misconduct?
Gerald A (138c50) — 8/7/2008 @ 12:33 pmWhat misconduct?
You’re not supposed to say that until after you’ve jailed/killed the person who suggested the protest.
Phil (6d9f2f) — 8/7/2008 @ 12:36 pmPhil:
The fear is someone might do both, but I think the point of this thread is that you don’t mess with people’s children.
DRJ (9d1be2) — 8/7/2008 @ 12:39 pmMisconduct is a given in Phil’s world. It comes in right after people kill, jail, and oppress the brown people.
JD (75f5c3) — 8/7/2008 @ 12:40 pmPhil,
I guess you are just one boneheaded Liberal who can’t figure out what is wrong until the wrong happens to them.
Hopefully your kids will distance themselves from you when they can.
PCD (5c49b0) — 8/7/2008 @ 12:52 pmIs that the range of choices that exists in your world, when it comes to “protesting” a prosecutor’s conduct in office? How about not being evil, to borrow a (likely trademarked) phrase? Sheesh.
JSinAZ (f840fb) — 8/7/2008 @ 12:55 pmbut I think the point of this thread is that you don’t mess with people’s children.
Whatever. It’s obvious that that isn’t the point of his statement (unless you already assume it is, because you want to be outraged).
How many times does the word “kids” appear in this paragraph? And how many times do the words “his” “him” and “he” appear? It’s obvious that this wasn’t some instruction about harassing his kids. Unless you want it to be not obvious. Which you guys do — because then you can get all foamy and excited about how evil Gravel is.
find out where he lives, find out where his kids go to school, find out where his office is; picket him all the time. Call him a racist in signs if you see him. Call him an injustice. Call him whatever you want to call him, but in his face all the time.
The statement doesn’t say to do anything with the kids. But that doesn’t matter. He said the word “kids,” and that’s enough to put you guys in a frenzy all by itself.
He’s telling the audience to protest — to picket the prosecutor all the time. Don’t let up. Is that extreme? Is it somewhat obnoxious? Is it unfair? Possibly it’s all three. But it’s not in any way a suggestion that anyone “mess with his kids.”
But enough actual analysis — back to the outrage and insults:
Phil (6d9f2f) — 8/7/2008 @ 1:00 pmIs that the range of choices that exists in your world, when it comes to “protesting” a prosecutor’s conduct in office? How about not being evil, to borrow a (likely trademarked) phrase? Sheesh.
So picketing at a school to protest government misconduct is “evil”? What religion to you belong to?
Phil (6d9f2f) — 8/7/2008 @ 1:05 pmPhil, do you have children?
Dana (b4a26c) — 8/7/2008 @ 1:07 pmPhil,
If kids had nothing to do with it, then he wouldn’t have said it. Obviously finding out where these “kids” go to school is a little over the top.
That oh, and the whole stalking thing.
G (722480) — 8/7/2008 @ 1:08 pmPhil,
The only reason to care about where an official’s children attend school is to bring pressure on the official. It’s one thing to protest at a workplace or public venue but I’d do almost anything to avoid a protest or threat that could endanger my children, and I think most parents would agree. Unless we want to end up like Mexico, an official’s actions should be based on good policy and not who does the best job intimidating his/her family.
DRJ (9d1be2) — 8/7/2008 @ 1:17 pmAmong the suggested punishments for Gravel’s speech are having him thrown in jail, or shot.
So should I be more outraged over the kind of harassment “that Gravel recommends” or the kind that you guys recommend?
I prefer people picketing my kid’s school over jail/death. YMMV.
But you know, when someone suggests that people protest an prosecutor’s misconduct, I suppose the proportional response IS to have them jailed or killed. In Iran, and here in neo-con land.
Comment by Phil — 8/7/2008 @ 1
I musted have missed the comment (s?) on advocating that he be shot. Please do point them out to me Phil.
G (722480) — 8/7/2008 @ 1:24 pmG, I was referring to the suggestion of post number 5.
Phil (6d9f2f) — 8/7/2008 @ 1:35 pmSo you lied in using the plural? gotcha…
Also, you might want to learn to read better, and it wasn’t suggest it be done, but that there was the chance it would happen…
Like how if you acted this stupid in normal society, someone might punch you in the face.
I wouldn’t (because I dislike getting “stupid” all over me), but I could certainly see it happening…
Scott Jacobs (fa5e57) — 8/7/2008 @ 1:39 pm“Pardon me for not peeing my pants in terror.”
Tell us, Phil – where do you work? Where do you live? Do you have children? Where do they go to school? Does your wife work? Where? Do you mind if we speak to your supervisor at work about your blog postings here? How about showing up at your kid’s school to discuss your thought patterns – you know, nothing too intimidating, just appearing in front of their school from time to time.
How about we show up in front of your home some morning (or night) and attempt to get our point of view about you across to your neighbors? Would that be ok with you, Philly?
Dmac (874677) — 8/7/2008 @ 1:53 pmLet’s hear the detailed information I just requestee from you, Philly – right now, no delay. If you decide not to provide said information, then you’re a gutless wonder.
Dmac (874677) — 8/7/2008 @ 1:54 pmLet’s hear the detailed information I just requested from you, Philly – right now, no delay.
Dmac (874677) — 8/7/2008 @ 1:55 pmWhoops, sorry – double posting.
Dmac (874677) — 8/7/2008 @ 1:55 pmGravel didn’t ask the prosecutor to tell everyone that information. He told people to find it out for themselves. What are you, lazy or something?
Phil (6d9f2f) — 8/7/2008 @ 1:57 pmDmac, this is why I asked earlier if Phil had children. Its difficult to understand how one cannot understand the seriousness and yes, deplorability of Gravel’s behavior. I’m wondering if one doesn’t have a family that they would risk their own life for, perhaps this situation wouldn’t seem as serious???….
Dana (b4a26c) — 8/7/2008 @ 2:00 pmSo, one comment, which clearly states “Somewhere in there is a prison sentence, or in some neighborhoods a bullet for Gavel, not recommended but possible.”
Inwhich you turn into: “Among the suggested punishments for Gravel’s speech are having him thrown in jail, or shot.
So should I be more outraged over the kind of harassment “that Gravel recommends” or the kind that you guys recommend?
I prefer people picketing my kid’s school over jail/death. YMMV.
But you know, when someone suggests that people protest an prosecutor’s misconduct, I suppose the proportional response IS to have them jailed or killed. In Iran, and here in neo-con land.”
Seriously one person, who isn’t even really saying what you’re saying he said. #5 sounds like a realist who understands the level to which some people would go to protect their family. It is a dangerous world after all, failure to recognize things for what they are is just foolish and ignorant.
G (722480) — 8/7/2008 @ 2:00 pmFair enough, Phil.
Folks, I want Phil’s address. I want his phone number. I want to know where he works, I want to know where his children attend school. I want us to picket these places continually, calling Phil a racist.
Sound like a fun time to you Phil?
Scott Jacobs (fa5e57) — 8/7/2008 @ 2:01 pmSomehow, I believe that the only realist way to obtain this information is by first tracking down his IP, and onward from there, which pretty much means Patterico would have to do that, which he wouldn’t. Anybody else got a blog and wants to post Phil’s IP address so that people who have way too much time on their hands can find every single thing about him?
G (722480) — 8/7/2008 @ 2:25 pmNo question Phil’s all for that – right, Phil? Come on, big man – you believe that threatening a person’s family is just so much flotsam and jetsam. Hey, what’s the big deal – we’re all just a bunch of gossipy children, right, Phil?
Why should we do the work that you suggested is no big deal to begin with? If you honestly think what Gravel stated is absolutely nothing to be concerned about, then let’s have it – all of it. Come on, Phil – what are you afraid of, Wussy Boy?
Dmac (874677) — 8/7/2008 @ 2:26 pmInteresting use of picket – how is picketing a school in any way demonstrating against a bad act by part of the Justice System? Answer: it is not a demonstration against injustice, but it is effectively an act of extortion, by increasing (at the very, very least) the unease of parents who must navigate the “protest”. Rational thought is not the result, but fear – which is just what Mr. Gravel wants – empowerment of the self-righteous, with no regard to collateral damage.
And as to your question regarding my religion, the answer would be ‘none’ (of your business).
Your question fits very well with idiot Manichaean flavor of the day – you disagree with me, then you embody all aspects of the model of evil that I’ve built in my mind. It could be, that I just disagree with you. Could be, I disagree with most of the posters here regarding social commentary most of the time. Could be that people should really stop itching for a fight, and cool the hell off.
JSinAZ (4a9d9c) — 8/7/2008 @ 3:09 pmCould be that people should really stop itching for a fight, and cool the hell off.
Fair enough.
Phil (6d9f2f) — 8/7/2008 @ 3:19 pmNo question Phil’s all for that – right, Phil? Come on, big man – you believe that threatening a person’s family is just so much flotsam and jetsam. Hey, what’s the big deal – we’re all just a bunch of gossipy children, right, Phil?
Look, if you guys really think that Gravel was “threatening [the prosecutor’s] family” then we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I do not read Gravel’s statement as a threat to a family. Period. It’s not even a reasonable inference. His statement is simply a call to protest everywhere this guy goes.
If I DID think this was in fact a call to threaten the prosecutor’s family, I would condemn it in the terms you are using. But I don’t see it, and it looks to me like you’re all agreeing to pretend it’s a threat because you want to condemn Gravel.
Phil (6d9f2f) — 8/7/2008 @ 3:34 pmFrom the comments at IPT, check out this creepy video of Gravel singing “Helter Skelter” (Charles Manson’s theme song!) against a video montage that includes the Zapruder film, Malcolm X, lots of Vietnam stock footage, and of course 9/11.
Gravel’s world is full of falling bombs and impending doom. What’s the life of some right-winger’s kids compared to that, right?
Glen Wishard (02562c) — 8/7/2008 @ 4:01 pmYes, Phil, I know he was speaking, not acting. That’s why I wrote:
Do you know what the word “describes” means? If you did, then you’d realize that I knew Gravel was speaking and not acting.
It doesn’t make his words any less deplorable, Phil. It doesn’t matter how many people do what Gravel tells him to do, the fact that he was advocating it is outrageous.
The fact that you attempt to minimize this is sickening.
Steverino (1dda08) — 8/7/2008 @ 4:35 pmthe fact that he was advocating it is outrageous.
. . . The fact that you attempt to minimize this is sickening.
Your extreme emotional response to hypothetical analysis of a single phrase in a minor public figure’s speech to a small group of people is overwrought.
Your consistent overreaction to mere speech is ludicrous.
And your pattern of making absolute, unequivocal judgments about people’s ideas and behavior based on tiny snippits of information is annoying.
Philerino (6d9f2f) — 8/7/2008 @ 5:00 pmPhil wrote: Get a grip. The guy was speaking, not acting. How many people do what Mike Gravel tells them to do, anyway?
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt, and presume you’re just being obtuse and aren’t an idiot.
Gravel wasn’t speaking in front of a crowd estimated at 70 (that applauded his call to harass Kromberg) because they didn’t want to hear what he had to say. And he was there along with Al-Arian’s wife. You may want to remove your head from where the sun don’t shine long enough to read a paper that will explain what supporters of Palestinian jihadists are capable of (oops…I mean, if you really believed what you wrote).
But then again, the whole point of this post was to foment outrage and self-rightousness. So go ahead and be outraged. Enjoy yourself. Shiver with ecstacy at how right you are, and how wrong Mike Gravel is.
Ohhhhhh…you’ve got a little crushy-wushy on Gravel, don’tcha? That’s so cute.
))))Sigh(((( OK, I tried. Presumption of intelligence revoked.
You’re an idiot.
L.N. Smithee (d1de1b) — 8/7/2008 @ 5:01 pmPhil,
I read it as a call to protest, too, but it’s not right to call for actions that might bring someone’s children into the argument. It could endanger the children and it escalates the political disagreement to a different level.
DRJ (9d1be2) — 8/7/2008 @ 5:02 pmGravel wasn’t speaking in front of a crowd estimated at 70 (that applauded his call to harass Kromberg) because they didn’t want to hear what he had to say.
So how many of them have started following Kromberg around protesting/harassing him so far?
And how many actually went so far as to show up at his kids’ school? If Gravel’s speech so incited the crowd, to behave as you seem to think it did, I’m sure at least a couple dozen of these people are out there right now, no? Kromberg can’t get a moment’s sleep, right?
Philerino (6d9f2f) — 8/7/2008 @ 5:14 pmEgads, is it possible for me to change my name back, or will I be Philerino forever?
Phil (6d9f2f) — 8/7/2008 @ 5:22 pmCould be worse — could be Philomena.
Icy Truth (23d64b) — 8/7/2008 @ 5:27 pmI would think that speaking in front of people who are sympathetic to someone already convicted of supporting terrorists would have created a special danger of follow-through all its own.
SPQR (26be8b) — 8/7/2008 @ 5:30 pmPhil-a-lame-o wrote: So how many of them have started following Kromberg around protesting/harassing him so far?
I have no idea, and neither do you. But it was discovered that someone had taken up Gravel’s suggestion, would that bother you?
And how many actually went so far as to show up at his kids’ school? If Gravel’s speech so incited the crowd, to behave as you seem to think it did, I’m sure at least a couple dozen of these people are out there right now, no? Kromberg can’t get a moment’s sleep, right?
Like I said before, you’re an idiot.
It only takes one nut to start people thinking about their safety and whether to compromise their principles to protect their families (see Pellicano, Anthony). Gravel admitted that was his intent, later citing Bank of America officials that caved after their families were harassed. That was only about subprime mortgages; this is about Palestinian terrorists. Big freaking diff, Einstein.
L.N. Smithee (d1de1b) — 8/7/2008 @ 5:46 pmPhil, you’ll be lucky to emerge from this with any skin left on your silly arse, much less with a shread of integrity attached to whatever name you happen to be using.
It’s not often one sees so complete an act of self destruction play out so quickly and so completely.
Ropelight (cb4838) — 8/7/2008 @ 5:53 pmYour consistent overreaction to mere speech is ludicrous.
And your pattern of making absolute, unequivocal judgments about people’s ideas and behavior based on tiny snippits of information is annoying.
Comment by Philerino — 8/7/2008 @ 5:00 pm
Am quite surprised to see these two sentences from you, since this is exactly, precisely what liberals do all the time, particularly with regard to perceived bias, as in (you got it) racism. Think of all the times people’s whole colorblind-lived lives can be (and have been) very nearly ruined by a liberal’s misinterpretation of “water buffalo” or “niggardly,” to give just two of thousands of examples.
I wonder whether it’s conservatives or liberals who most consistently write, support and promote speech codes on campuses etc? Let me think….
no one you know (1ebbb1) — 8/7/2008 @ 5:59 pmPeople need to turn the tables on pricks like Gravel.
Now I see that Leftist group Accountable America targets conservative for intimidation. Ten thousand of biggest donors to GOP will get warning letters. They’ll be alerted that they might find legal trouble, public exposure and wathcdog groups probling through their lives. “Free speech is cool with these guys as long as they approve of what you’re saying.”
story over at michellemalkin.com
These asshats have chutzpah. Would love to see tables turned on them. Big effin’ whoop. People can turn the tables by giving anonymously to 501(c)4 entities. Keep trying, liberal Morons.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/8/2008 @ 4:35 amPhil,
You may think this is nothing. More likely you are excusing your fellow travellers and trying to provide some of them cover for harassing this prosecutor. You think this kind of stuff doesn’t happen. On the other hand, I believe you support such actions.
A number of years ago a couple of bus loads of NEA Teacher goons decided that on their way to the Capitol to demonstrate in favor of “The DREAM Act”, that they would do to Karl Rove what Gravel called for to be done to this prosecutor. The teachers surrounded Rove’s home pounding on the windows of the house demanding Rove support the Dream act. They continued eventhough they were TERRORIZING Rove’s children.
This why Liberals like you, Phil, are absolute scum.
PCD (5c49b0) — 8/8/2008 @ 5:12 am#86 When I lived in suburban Philly, I well recall the in-your-face attitudes of picketing teachers and roofing unions. Some of those asshats reveled in trying to intimidate people with bullying tactics and confrontations. Liberals really believe in their own free speech. Check out how they will purposely make conservative books unavailable or hidden in book stores.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/8/2008 @ 7:15 amYou may recall when laws were changed to force non-union members, at least of AFSCME, to pay dues to the union because the union was working for “everyone”. Yes, protect the kickbacks and union donations to dem political retards. Gerald McEntee and his ilk can stuff it.
a lot of people make Bush look like an Einstein.
The Reverend Terence Fformby-Smythe (a757fd) — 8/8/2008 @ 9:48 am87, yes, and the majority of them are Democrats.
PCD (5c49b0) — 8/8/2008 @ 10:00 amYeah right, but the left never wearies of attacking Dubya with BDS talking points. And yet Bush still beat the algore and lurch opposition two times running and managed to fool any number of liberal lions who looked at the same intelligence and voted for the Iraq war. Fact: Bush college grades better than algore and lurch. Fat boy Teddy didn’t fare to well at Harvard, even having someone else take his language final.
madmax333 (0c6cfc) — 8/8/2008 @ 10:03 amI really don’t understand what happened to open discussions that didn’t resort to liberal bashing or conservative bashing. Can’t people just listen to each other and consider differing opinions anymore?
Tlove (953364) — 8/8/2008 @ 10:07 amNot since political discussion moved from conservatives being thought of as misguided, to being “evil”.
Another Drew (722aad) — 8/8/2008 @ 10:11 amAlso, the fact that Libs argue from feelings, and the Right argues from facts, means that both sides are talking past each other.
Thanks for proving my point A Drew
Tlove (953364) — 8/8/2008 @ 10:14 amPlease, TLove, since we’re friends, call me AD (got to save the bandwidth, you know).
Another Drew (722aad) — 8/8/2008 @ 10:25 am…this applies to DRJ also…
Are you sure you can be friends with a liberal?
Tlove (953364) — 8/8/2008 @ 10:26 amTLove,
I describe myself as a conservative, though way back in the 2000 election, in which I did not vote for Bush, I found the whole Florida issue rather silly. In fact, many, many people that I went to school with or worked with honestly viewed it as a stolen election and feel that popular vote should determine the president. Sure, thats their view and belief, but rather ignorant about how and why the electoral college is in existence. This honestly pushed me closer to being a conservative. Well then there was the whole President Bush choking on a pretzel, lets make fun of him for that junk that happened, that too, pushed me away from liberals. Furthermore, after the Iraq war started, I was “blamed” by many, mostly online, some to my face in all sorts of rudeness for voting for Bush, by simply explaining the electoral college process, and I didn’t even vote for him in 2000. I know many intelligent and fair minded liberals and democrats, though many that I encounter seem unable to understand basic facts and are more interested in the way the world “should be” than the way the world is. I’m all for discussing the way things should be, but in doing so, one must recognize the way the world is first. I think that is perhaps the reason for a great lack of open, honest, and serious discussions over political differences.
G (722480) — 8/8/2008 @ 10:29 amYou are entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts. Feelings do NOT trump facts, no matter how hard you clap.
Last bit of wisdom: When you vote for the impossible, what you get instead is the disastrous and unpalatable probable.
Drumwaster (5ccf59) — 8/8/2008 @ 10:31 amAn assumption that what I have are opinions and what you have are facts is absurd. All liberals are not the same, just like all conservatives are not the same.
Tlove (953364) — 8/8/2008 @ 10:42 amIt also seems that people like to respond to only posts more critical of them than seeking out common ground.
G (722480) — 8/8/2008 @ 10:53 amTlove…
Of course I can be friends with a Liberal.
As a conservative, I actually consider myself a liberal in the classical meaning as one concerned about individual liberty: Jeffersonian.
But, I have a strong Jacksonian streak when it comes to the preservation of the State, which is the guardian of our liberties.
Sort of like one of those Scots-Irish described by James Webb in his book.
The argument between the Left and Right in America today is one of “opinions” formed by feelings (the Left), and “opinions” formed by facts (the Right). I reference the late, great Sen. Moynihan, who famously said:
Another Drew (722aad) — 8/8/2008 @ 10:53 amEveryone is entitled to their own opinion, but no-one is entitled to their own facts.
The works of Thomas Sowell are also relevant on this subject.
Plus, a quote from Larry Elder that I always find provacative:
Facts to a Liberal, are like Kryptonite to Superman!
I am not now, nor have I ever been, making any such assumption (and I would invite you to point out where I made such an assumption).
I speak very generally using the generic “you”.
However, this is a problem that seems endemic among those on the Left side of the political aisle, using “emotion” words like “feel” or “think” or “should be”, and acting as though they should get whatever they want if only they can get the right laws passed and the right people in charge.
Yes, there are outliers on both sides of the political aisle, but the farther one goes on the Left, the more one hears that feelings are all-important and self-esteem trumps all. This is the basis of Affirmative Action – the argument that because a young black person’s g’g’g’g’g’great grandmother once met someone who was a slave that they should be able to gain a preference in benefits, for no other reason than because of a reality that hasn’t existed for a time measured in double-digit decades (not quite centuries yet). It is the basis of Political Correctness – the argument that because certain words can hurt a certain someone’s feelings under specified social conditions, that words should no longer be allowed to be said, unless your skin color is kinda like the certain someone, in which case, it’s fair game. It is the basis of Hate Crime legislation – the argument that if the criminal activity was being motivated by “bad feelings” rather than sheer viciousness, the criminal should be punished more harshly.
It is the offensive (and I distinguish “offensive” from “criminal”) speech and activity that we should be protecting, because the popular ones need no such protection. As long as we have somewhere else we can go or something else to watch or a different station on the dial or can even turn the radio/TV off, being offended is not a good reason to limit the freedom of another.
In short, feelings don’t trump reality, and wishing hard doesn’t change that.
Drumwaster (5ccf59) — 8/8/2008 @ 10:59 am“We know where you leave. We know where your kids go to school. We are in your neighborhood, watching your every move. We will harass you, picket your kids and leave threatening voice mails on your phone. The name of your nine year old son is Chris. Your daughter is 6. Her name is Chelsea and she has a teddy bear named “Bonny”.”
love2008 (0c8c2c) — 8/8/2008 @ 11:26 amHow does that make you feel? Safe?