Hoyer Defeats Murtha
The vote was 149-86.
I guess when Murtha said he had the votes, eyeball to eyeball, he wasn’t telling the truth any more than he was about Abscam.
The Democrats have just taken a big juicy target away from Republicans. Dammit.
But I have confidence that we’re still looking at Alcee “Impeached for Bribery” Hastings as the head of the Intelligence Committee.
UPDATE: I had a brain glitch and called Hastings “Alcee ‘Impeached for Bribery’ Hastings.” I meant to say “impeached” and not “indicted,” and have changed the post to reflect my original intent. Hastings was prosecuted in criminal court and acquitted. I don’t know if the prosecution was initiated by indictment or not, but regardless, the more salient fact is that he was impeached and removed from office for bribery. Thanks to a commenter.
Or people were trying to fool him.
actus (10527e) — 11/16/2006 @ 6:13 pm29+ people (granted, elected Democratic representatives) lied vs. John Murtha.
Damn, it’s almost a toss-up, but I’ll go with John Murtha lying.
Christoph (9824e6) — 11/16/2006 @ 6:22 pmOld people can get out of touch with reality. He may have believed it. Old people also get weird ideas. Like cutting and running from Iraq. Old people may nag and moan but they do not have the energy for a real fight. Like staying to fight in Iraq. Old people vote and young people don’t, so we get old nuisances like Pelosi and Murtha governing us.
To quote John Wayne: “I like crochetty old men. I hope to be one myself some day”. Still, John Wayne was the star and not Gabby Hayes. I’m glad there’s a little bit of sense left in the Democratic Party.
nk (57e995) — 11/16/2006 @ 6:42 pmWell, they lied to him. Told him they were supporting him. So he would go away, and ask someone else. It’s a secret ballot. They won’t get caught. Murtha? He’d get caught if he lied. Clearly. Why would he lie about this?
actus (10527e) — 11/16/2006 @ 6:50 pmBecause he’s a liar.
What’s your proof that the above number of Democratic congressional representatives lied? What’s your rationale for believing it? Murtha’s word?
Christoph (9824e6) — 11/16/2006 @ 7:06 pmBecause it makes more sense. Murtha’s bugging you to vote for him. What gets him to stop? You tell him yes. And then your vote is secret. So who even knows if you lied? There’s a great incentive to lie. You don’t burn any bridges, and act like you support and still supported him.
But now murtha? When he says he has the votes? People will know he doesn’t.
actus (10527e) — 11/16/2006 @ 7:21 pm29+ people lying makes more sense than John Murtha lying?
So basically, your position is that the newly elected Democratic congress is controlled of cowardly liars?
Christoph (9824e6) — 11/16/2006 @ 7:29 pm*composed of
Christoph (9824e6) — 11/16/2006 @ 7:30 pmEach one of their lies makes more sense than his one lie. I have no idea how to add them up. Its just that they seem quite rational. And they’re more rational the more that Murtha is leaning on them. At its base, its the easiest way to get him to back off. And its good insurance in case he wins. He wasn’t the favored candidate, and was always the upstart.
actus (10527e) — 11/16/2006 @ 7:34 pmYeah, I see your point, actus, and I’m not opposed to thinking that the Democrats in question are cowardly liars, but on the other hand we’re also talking John Murtha here and he’s a little ethically challenged.
Either way.
Christoph (9824e6) — 11/16/2006 @ 7:43 pmLike i said from the beggining.
actus (10527e) — 11/16/2006 @ 7:45 pmActus,
If we accept your version of the Murtha voting saga then we have to assume that Murtha was completely surprised by the results. If so, he would have been a horrible Democratic Majority Leader because he was either completely clueless as to how the vote was shaping up or he was totally unable to grasp the mood of the House Democrats. If, on the other hand, you assume that Murtha knowingly fudged when he said he had the votes, at least he comes across as somewhat intelligent and a reasonably decent political operative.
Now that I think about it, I agree with you Actus. Murtha and Pelosi probably did think he had the votes.
Patterico,
Are trying to cheer up conservatives like me by suggesting that if Alcee Hastings is the intelligence committee chairman for the next 2 years, at least we will have him to (figuratively) kick around? Because, if so, it didn’t cheer me up but thanks anyway.
DRJ (1be297) — 11/16/2006 @ 7:56 pmIts a possibility. He did look sad on TV when I saw him. But that was only a brief look. Or maybe he also figured how much sense it made to tell him, and he wasn’t so surprised.
Of course, we’re also ignoring that people could change their minds from when they tell Murtha to when they actually vote.
actus (10527e) — 11/16/2006 @ 9:04 pmThirty-two people changed their mind(s) in the space of 1-2 days? That’s how many would have had to change their votes to swing the election from Murtha to Hoyer. Even half that many would be amazing.
DRJ (1be297) — 11/16/2006 @ 9:33 pmI take actus’ analysis at face value that the Democrat House members lied to Murtha.
But if they’re willing to lie about voting for Majority Leader—then what else are they willing to lie about ?
On the other hand, the discrepancy between the final tabulation and the pre-voting “poll” sounds like it may be yet another one of Karl Rove’s Machiavellian conspiracies to screw the Democrats.
After all, I heard that one of Rove’s golfing buddies is the manufacturer of the secret ballots which the Congress uses…hmmm….
Either way, it was a tough choice between Congressman ABSCAM, and Steny “Michael Steele is slavish to the Republican party” Hoyer.
Desert Rat (ee9fe2) — 11/16/2006 @ 9:47 pmGreat,
paul from fl (967602) — 11/17/2006 @ 1:23 amSo the Dems lied/misstated/vacillated their votes-whatever. At least they did something right for once and kept a lying cheat out of a position of influence.
Then again, like Gramps always said;
“Even a blind chipmunk finds a nut once in awhile.”
He wasn’t the favored candidate
Except by Madam Speaker.
sharon (dfeb10) — 11/17/2006 @ 4:39 amFor once, I agree with actus. Why burn your bridges right to the old fart’s face when you can make happy noises and vote your conscience later?
he would have been a horrible Democratic Majority Leader because he was either completely clueless as to how the vote was shaping up or he was totally unable to grasp the mood of the House Democrats.
I have no problem at all believing that this is the case. Pelosi has been using that old dimbulb in her cynical political maneuverings since the insipid “redeploy to Okinawa” plan. Murtha took one for the team (unwittingly) and her endorsement was a favor returned. The jury is still out as to whether she believed she had the clout to force this travesty down the throats of the entire caucus or not. I think she believed it, but perhaps she’s smarter and more cunning than she appears.
Daveg (a721ef) — 11/17/2006 @ 6:58 amAlcee “Indicted for Bribery” Hastings
Please, that’s Alcee “Impeached for Bribery” Hastings
Greg D (c3f13b) — 11/19/2006 @ 3:53 pmJohm Murtha opens his mouth an pays the price thats the great thing about america a person like him can open his mouth and stick his foot in without getting pericuted
krazy kagu (fb44c4) — 11/19/2006 @ 8:47 pm