Patterico's Pontifications

11/27/2015

Shootout At Planned Parenthood Facility In Colorado Springs

Filed under: General — Dana @ 4:59 pm

[guest post by Dana]

A shootout involving the police and an individual armed with an AK-47-style weapon at a Planned Parenthood facility just ended as the suspected gunman reportedly walked out of the building and was immediately taken into custody.

From a news conference right before the stand-off ended:

At a press conference at 4:07 p.m., Lt. Catherine Buckley with the Colorado Springs Police Department said the scene is still active and they have not established voice contact with a suspect in the Planned Parenthood building. Police say the suspect has fired at police. People are being evacuated from the Planned Parenthood building.

Buckley said the suspect brought items into the building with him. There are also items he left outside the building. Police do not know what they are and can’t go inside until the scene is stable.

Police say the incident is contained in the Planned Parenthood building, but people who are in businesses and buildings in the vicinity of the shooting will stay in lockdown until the area is deemed safe.

The shootout began late this morning:

The gunshots were first reported near the Planned Parenthood facility on Centennial Boulevard at around 11:38 a.m.

The gunman, whom authorities have not been able to identify, began firing at police from the parking lot and then from inside the building, a law enforcement official told NBC News.

Three officers were injured initially, and a fourth officer was later hurt, Buckley said. She added later that a fifth may have been injured as well.

After the shooting, the gunman entered the building.

All in all, 11 people have been reported injured in today’s shootout. Five of the injured are police officers. Authorities warned that there could be more as the crime scene is processed.

In spite of news reports – and Planned Parenthood itself – stressing that it was not known whether the organization was the target of the shooting, Planned Parenthood, nonetheless, released this statement:

Untitled-1

And Cecile Richards, president of PPFA, followed up with a tweet of her own:

Further, it was reported that President Obama had been notified of the shootout.

Our prayers are with the injured and their families.

–Dana

UPDATE: Two unidentified civilians and a police officer were killed in the shootout. Garrett Swasey, 44, worked for the University of Colorado in Colorado Springs. According to the university’s chancellor, Swasey went 10 miles to the scene of the shootout “in support of an officer under fire”. He was a six-year veteran of the university’s police force.

130 Responses to “Shootout At Planned Parenthood Facility In Colorado Springs”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (86e864)

  2. Safe environment for everyone entering?

    Except for innocent babies that is!

    Yoda (feee21)

  3. obama will know what to do

    happyfeet (831175)

  4. Now several news outlets are reporting that there are two fatalities: one a police officer anothe a non-police person.

    Unknown as to whether these two are counted among the 11 “injured” or in addition to.

    Gramps (bc022b)

  5. Our prayers are with the injured and their families.

    Indeed. KOAA reports a University of Colorado police officer and one civilian were killed. In addition, 11 were hurt including 5 police officers.

    DRJ (15874d)

  6. From KKTV:

    UPDATE 6:40 p.m.: Planned Parenthood officials told CNN they are “still reaching out to confirm individuals, how they are,” but do not believe any staff were severely injured in the shooting, and don’t think any patients were hurt.

    DRJ (15874d)

  7. If it’s true that no one at the PP facility was severely injured (and frankly it’s too early to say if that’s true), it suggests the deaths were not at the PP facility and the early reports were correct that the shooter took shelter there. But we don’t know so take this comment with a grain of salt.

    DRJ (15874d)

  8. Clearly, things will change and be updated along the way.

    Do you think the president is notified about every police shoot out or just particular ones???

    Dana (86e864)

  9. Apparently the police spent hours clearing the building this afternoon, including using an armored vehicle to gain access to some rooms. It also appears the police also convinced the suspect to surrender.

    I think many civilians were in contact with the police as they hid in various parts of the PP facility, and they were rescued by the police as the facility was cleared. It was very dramatic and a testament to the courage of the people in the building that they did not panic, and to the brave police who worked to safely rescue them despite being the target of a gunman. This is very sad, especially for the dead and severely injured, but often long events like this end up much worse.

    DRJ (15874d)

  10. I think it is possible that Obama was notified because this was an event worth politicizing.

    DRJ (15874d)

  11. I was being snarky, DRJ. Yes, why let a crisis go to waste, eh?

    Dana (86e864)

  12. CNN reports two civilians and one police officer were killed.

    DRJ (15874d)

  13. Well he only calls attention to certain incidents, I think they should have put the shooter down like a rapid animal, imho. Do they ever get a clue in Colorado.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  14. Further, it was reported that President Obama had been notified of the shootout.

    The only thing he should be notified about is the date when he has to move out of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

    I’m not being sarcastic when I say I’d actually feel relieved or less worried if I knew he were being kept in the dark about most matters.

    Mark (f713e4)

  15. ThinkProgress reports that the PP Rocky Mountain CEO said it’s not clear the PP facility was the target, but also said the shooting “did start at the Planned Parenthood building” and added that the suspect “had not gone into any other businesses at this point.”

    If this is true (and, again, it’s early), then either this was directed at Planned Parenthood or it was some kind of domestic/personal dispute. I guess it’s also possible that the shooting started at the PP facility but the shooter was sheltering there and not targeting the facility or anyone there.

    DRJ (15874d)

  16. And in the middle of their report, the WaPo notes:

    The incident comes as Planned Parenthood is facing unprecedented scrutiny following the undercover video operation mounted by a little-known group, the Center for Medical Progress. The anti-abortion organization spent 30 months infiltrating Planned Parenthood clinics and gatherings in an effort to produce evidence that the women’s health nonprofit was selling tissue leftover from abortions, which is against federal law.

    Planned Parenthood has called the videos deceptively edited, and said emphatically that it has not violated any laws. Among the clinics targeted as part of the video project was one in Denver

    Dana (86e864)

  17. Must have been a shock for Planned Parenthood, dealing with someone willing and able to kill them back.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  18. It begins:

    “Health care workers, ppl seeking health care, police officers were shot today. B/c bring anti-abortion isn’t considered wrong.”


    https://mobile.twitter.com/deppisch/status/670423950976032768/photo/1

    Dana (86e864)

  19. “We’re not sure this was connected to Planned Parenthood, but boy those Republicans sure are terrorists.”

    egd (1ad898)

  20. This is speculation but I think the police are still transporting people to be interviewed, including from the nearly King Soopers grocery store. Maybe they were close enough to see something or maybe this incident started there.

    DRJ (15874d)

  21. I wonder where the suspect’s vehicle is. That might tell us something about where this started.

    DRJ (15874d)

  22. NBC News has a photo that may be the back of the gunman, in custody.

    DRJ (15874d)

  23. Odd how details like that are left off, of the reports ‘edited’ you might say.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  24. From the NBC link:

    The University of Colorado Colorado Springs police officer who was killed was identified as Garrett Swasey, 44. University Chancellor Pam Shockley Zalabak said he was responding in support of city police to the active shooter situation when he was killed.

    So sad.

    DRJ (15874d)

  25. Again, this is speculation but initially the police also locked down the King Soopers grocery store on Centennial in Colorado Springs, as well as the VA facility across the street at 3141 Centennial. I think the police are interviewing people from both locations. Google says the PP facility is at 3480 Centennial, so it may be close.

    What if this started at the VA?

    DRJ (15874d)

  26. Probably not. That seems too speculative, so disregard my last comment.

    DRJ (15874d)

  27. Well it’s as valid as any other theory.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  28. Here is a good graphic of the shoot out location and nearby businesses: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/11/27/us/planned-parenthood-shooting-colorado-springs.html

    Dana (86e864)

  29. The Daily Mail reports the PP facility was the target, and the shootings occurred there. The link includes a profile photo of the suspect, and it appears he is an older white man with glasses and a beard.

    It also has a photo of Officer Swasey. So very sad.

    DRJ (15874d)

  30. The daily mail does not have the best track record when it comes to these events, I could cite a few examples.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  31. My guess is PP was indeed the target given the surrounding businesses, but I’ll wait for confirmation .

    Dana (86e864)

  32. According to NBC News:

    The gunman, who has not been identified, began shooting in the parking lot of Planned Parenthood and then entered the building, a law enforcement official told NBC News.
    ***
    Authorities tapped into the building’s video surveillance system, and were able to monitor the gunman’s movements, officials said.

    The report suggests the police identified the suspect’s vehicle:

    Investigators were also trying identify an item left in what is believed to be the suspect’s car, a law enforcement source said. The device appears to be a propane tank with wires sticking out, the source said. It was not immediately clear if it was a hoax device.

    DRJ (15874d)

  33. I have a feeling that President Obama will decide to make a statement tomorrow morning.

    DRJ (15874d)

  34. I added this update to post: Two unidentified civilians and a police officer were killed in the shootout. Garrett Swasey, 44, worked for the University of Colorado in Colorado Springs. According to the university’s chancellor, Swasey went 10 miles to the scene of the shootout “in support of an officer under fire”. He was a six-year veteran of the university’s police force.

    Dana (86e864)

  35. Cowart added, “Our staff and our health-center manager did all the right things. They got into safe rooms, they were able to hunker down as need be, and some of them got out early. But throughout the afternoon, those that didn’t were in a safe spot.”

    They make so much extra coin they can afford secret staff only safe rooms with video monitors to watch the mayhem.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  36. That’s why no baby butcher were harmed in this instance of karma.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  37. Finally, some white idiot shot up a Church of Abortion. My liberal Facebook friends are practically giddy. So, we are going to have to through the whole “the only real terrorists are white Christians” and the whole gun control crap. For a long, long time until Queen Hillary! is coronated. Inevitable, but not unexpected.

    Ag80 (eb6ffa)

  38. Meh. In Chicago, we call this Tuesday, between the hours of 7:00 pm. and 7:03 p.m, in the 113th block of South Wentworth.

    nk (dbc370)

  39. The blatantly immoral, conniving, diabolical nature of PP (certainly post-video-expose) and ongoing acts of terrorism (Colorado today or Colorado in 2012 in a shot-up movie theater, Ferguson, Missouri, or Fort Hood, etc, etc), along with a series of flash mobbing or radical protests (eg, today’s demonstration on Michigan Avenue in Chicago) is why Obama’s America in the 21st century really should trigger the sentiments described below—at least in sane, decent people…

    spotlight.ipsos-na.com, October 2015: More than half (58%) of Americans don’t identify with what America has become. Almost as many (53%) feel like a “stranger in their own country”. This sense of loss is particularly pronounced when we look at party identification: while 45% of Democrats don’t identify with what America has become, a whopping 72% of Republicans don’t.

    Mark (f713e4)

  40. Now was this a bank robbery or an abortion clinic shooting? Which is correct and which will further the media’s agenda?

    NJRob (a07d2e)

  41. When you make your daily bread sucking the brains out of nascent human life, chop up what’s left and sell the viable pieces, you better understand that some folks will find your job so vile…so odious that they will stop the practice by any means necessary. Just something to ponder if you possess the moral compass that would allow you to do such a thing. Happy holidays!

    Funeralguy (2b0c22)

  42. Funeralguy: So the shooting and killing was ideological? In short terrorism?

    DavidWilson (d7dde7)

  43. I saw more recent reports that this was a botched bank robbery at Chase Bank, where most of the shots were fired. The perp then ran down the street where other businesses are. Planned Parenthood just happened to be there.

    David (150d85)

  44. I’m glad I copied that paragraph at #36. The Wapo erased it some time since.

    They way they report it now it was a bank robbery gone bad with the perp ending up hiding inside the fortress of Murder Inc.

    Just the way that building is set up, to defy the public conscious, lended itself to be the perfect ambush spot for shooting cops.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  45. 43.Funeralguy: So the shooting and killing was ideological? In short terrorism?

    Sorry David Wilson, you don’t get to hang the “terrorism” moniker on every shooting you don’t agree with. Some, like this one are just plain crimes. Terrorism is when an entire movement is dedicated to repeat acts of terror. You know, you’re not as stupid as you act, like the guys your president calls criminals, they are terrorists (but he won’t use the word when they’re moslems). You leftists get everything back asswards. Now if massive amounts of white Christians pledge loyalty to jihad against abortion clinics you will have “terrorism” but I don’t see that happening. You leftists really got to stop getting hysterical with the nomenclature when one of your oxen is gored.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  46. Is dave, iamadimwit, we’re talking the c team of nazguls.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  47. So crazy person in colorado, seems to be a pattern.

    narciso (a1aef7)

  48. Does papertiger know the guy he supports for Prez is a PP supporter?

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  49. It amuses me how absolutely giddy leftists get when people are murdered by people belonging to groups they hate. The air of delight thinking that a white, male, Christian, presumably heterosexual murdered people “proving” conclusively they are all hypocrites. All the while moslems murder thousands of their own people and thousands more throughout the world and the same leftists want to bring them here. Also, 93% of all blacks in America are murdered by other blacks, mostly in inner cities ghettos run by leftist, democrat blacks for decades using the very theories and ideas these leftists espouse for the rest of us. I guess their fundamental change is to turn the entire country into a third world hell-hole and ghetto coast to coast.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  50. Great Caesar’s Ghost. Damn. And he was doing so well, too! Guess, I’ll have to settle for one of the also rans from the kiddy table.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  51. What’s Pataki’s position on baby murder? Anybody know?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  52. He’s for it, papertiger.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  53. Great Caesar’s Ghost. Damn. And he was doing so well, too! Guess, I’ll have to settle for one of the also rans from the kiddy table.

    papertiger (c2d6da) — 11/28/2015 @ 6:11 am

    Now I see. He’s winning. I didn’t understand that logical point before.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  54. If the race comes down to Hillary vs. Trump and Hillary pulls clearly ahead in the polls I’ll have to support Hillary.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  55. well lets put it bluntly, O’Connor found a whole knew rationale for abortion, don’t get me started on souter, kennedy another rocket surgeon they dredged up,

    narciso (732bc0)

  56. I’m just saying the machinery of death, has been able to grind through three gop presidencies with little resistance, why is it still a flip of a coin, that we get Thomas, Alito, or Scalia?

    narciso (732bc0)

  57. I’m just saying the machinery of death, has been able to grind through three gop presidencies with little resistance, why is it still a flip of a coin, that we get Thomas, Alito, or Scalia?

    narciso (732bc0) — 11/28/2015 @ 6:43 am

    Do you actually not know any of the history?

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  58. I’m just saying the machinery of death, has been able to grind through three gop presidencies with little resistance, why is it still a flip of a coin, that we get Thomas, Alito, or Scalia?

    narciso (732bc0) — 11/28/2015 @ 6:43 am

    Roberts’ abortion votes are identical to those others. Not sure why you excluded him from the list.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  59. Hey,
    Go ahead and play the terrorist killing people game if you want,
    Obama’s friend Billy Ayers thought it would take the deaths of 25 million Americans to succeed in the revolution,
    and he was all for it
    and acted on it by bombing for ideological reasons
    and has said publicly that he wished he had done more
    and that America was great because he was guilty but got off on a technicality

    So, yeah, even if one or two or three people truly on the fringe do crimes that the rest of us reject and would eagerly act to stop if we knew it was going to happen,
    if you want to start taking a count, you go right on ahead.

    MD in Philly (not in Philly at the moment) (deca84)

  60. they seem to want to gin up their version of Hungerford, Dunblane or Port Arthur, but the facts don’t oblige, Rupert had his publication, gin up ‘the two minute hate’ about that,

    narciso (732bc0)

  61. Was anyone aborted?

    #CecileTheCannibal is concerned that a baby may escape from her office during the confusion.

    n.n (0b901a)

  62. If the race comes down to Hillary vs. Trump and Hillary pulls clearly ahead in the polls I’ll have to support Hillary.
    Gerald A (949d7d) — 11/28/2015 @ 6:35 am

    Whatcha do is let the democrat’s operative at the polling station conveniently lose your ballot. That way you can vote for Trump with a clear conscious.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  63. Count me as one totally unconcerned over anyone at PP being shot dead. Much like I yawn when I hear of folks dropping dead from OD’s in NH.

    You reap what you sow.

    Rodney Ling's Spirit (ab8c0d)

  64. Or is that just a California thing? Damn their eyes. Crooked bast…

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  65. except a cop and an offduty pastor, was in the shooting gallery, evil takes many forms,

    narciso (732bc0)

  66. Fortunately, Americans… At least traditional Americans, are not adherents to a pro-choice quasi-religious doctrine. They do not on principle support either abortion/murder or planned/cannibalism, despite The Supreme Courts summary and arbitrary exclusion of “Posterity” from The Constitution. The actions taken by an individual to confront the Planned Parenthood corporation for commission, and aiding and abetting, violation of human rights, is done as an individual choice.

    n.n (0b901a)

  67. yes, if the answer is hillary, you have the wrong question,

    narciso (732bc0)

  68. let’s keep in mind, not to be like them, people were just doing their business, when this shooter, decided to end their lives, and maim others,

    narciso (732bc0)

  69. this couldn’t get much stranger, can it,

    https://twitter.com/bob_owens/status/670468738077052928?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

    narciso (732bc0)

  70. #69 I am not like them. I don’t sit around clapping for dead babies. I am also not like them shedding crocodile tears. If I am a cop and I hear folks are being shot at PP, I go grab a donut and let the crazy finish the job.

    You know, like what Cops are doing across the Nation when blacks are killing blacks. Let the fire consume itself before engaging.

    Rodney Ling's Spirit (ab8c0d)

  71. #70 How inconvenient if true.

    But transgenderism is a mental illness, so no shocker.

    Rodney Ling's Spirit (ab8c0d)

  72. he didn’t seem very particular, about who he killed, one of whom was a copastor at a local church, there lies the point, unlike abbaoud’s crew, who targeted those who were haram in his view,

    narciso (732bc0)

  73. roberts has been an enabler of one abomination or another:

    http://linkis.com/nypost.com/2015/11/2/iKexZ

    I guess that’s what being on the ‘right side of history’ is about,

    narciso (732bc0)

  74. this is what happens when people aren’t enjoying red cup season they get all agro and they lash out without thinking

    obama will know what to do

    happyfeet (831175)

  75. Isn’t it amusing, narciso, how those on the “wrong side of sanity” claim to be “on the right side of history”? Plus they’re arrogant and stupid enough to believe they know how “history” will turn out before it happens. I guess saying one is “on the right side of current events” isn’t sanctimonious enough for the garden variety leftist.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  76. In Los Angeles County, the police deal with barricaded cop-killers by setting the building on fire with incendiary tear gas grenades. True, look up Dorner or the Symbionese Liberation Army for a couple of cases that made the news. But these Colorado sissies probably don’t even have incendiary grenades.

    nk (dbc370)

  77. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/11/28/in-wake-of-colorado-shooting-obama-calls-for-more-gun-controls/?tid=sm_fb

    Of course let’s demonize all those gun owners in the usa. But your bigots for questions about refugees. Also, the meme is in less that 4 hours after the event started, that it was a RWNJ who went after PPA facility. Not withstanding what the actual facts on the ground are.

    Charles (db662b)

  78. I’m just saying the machinery of death, has been able to grind through three gop presidencies with little resistance, why is it still a flip of a coin, that we get Thomas, Alito, or Scalia?

    roberts has been an enabler of one abomination or another:

    http://linkis.com/nypost.com/2015/11/2/iKexZ

    I guess that’s what being on the ‘right side of history’ is about,

    narciso (732bc0) — 11/28/2015 @ 7:34 am

    I thought you were talking about SCOTUS abortion votes narciso.

    Plus, your point in linking to that article seems to be about Roberts’ Obamacare votes. That isn’t related to Obamacare.

    But you’re going off on something else anyway.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  79. robertscare, enshrines abortion, it makes various cancer screening, as scarce as blizzards in july, that’s just one decision,

    narciso (732bc0)

  80. Roe v. Wade is a super-precedent, remember? But the guy who came up with that was primaried out and when he ran as an independent was voted out. O’Connor was a statist a/k/a traditional conservative. Obey authority. The benefit of the doubt goes to the government. She upheld Pennsylvania’s pro-life restrictions on abortion in Casey v. Planned Parenthood because they were enacted by the State of Pennsylvania. But then she followed the same rule in Gutter because “diversity” was put in place by authority.

    nk (dbc370)

  81. well they are awfully picky about authoriteh, did she vote in Plyer v. Doe,

    narciso (732bc0)

  82. Follow-up post on the shooting here.

    Dana (86e864)

  83. If the race comes down to Hillary vs. Trump and Hillary pulls clearly ahead in the polls I’ll have to support Hillary. Gerald A (949d7d)

    I don’t know what your political instincts or biases are (I vaguely recall seeing your name posted here in the past), but to make a comment like that implies you should acknowledge (if you haven’t done so already) that you’re fairly liberal.

    Mark (f713e4)


  84. I don’t know what your political instincts or biases are (I vaguely recall seeing your name posted here in the past), but to make a comment like that implies you should acknowledge (if you haven’t done so already) that you’re fairly liberal.

    Actually, it’s a fairly conservative concept to go with “the evil you know” vs “the evil you don’t”. If Trump is deemed too unstable to be trusted with the levers of the state, then Hillary it’d have to be.

    Most Conservatives don’t like Hillary at all. Most Conservatives also would agree that if they’d had to choose between Hillary and Obama, they would have gone with Hillary because Obama was an inexperienced, naive, unknown quantity who could speak but didn’t know what the F he was doing. In retrospect, I’d have to agree.

    I’m all for populist, outsider candidates shaking up the system. But no one should be assuming Trump is infallible or be getting caught up in a 2008-level cult of personality. When you take that away, some of his outbursts raise competency concerns.

    JCC (ca3d1b)

  85. Mr. Trump emasculates the chamberboy republicans something beautiful

    this alone is worth the price of admission

    plus his candidacy represents something very profound

    it represents taking the logic of electing a lightweight unaccomplished bought and paid for slut like obama to its ultimate conclusion

    let’s elect a trashy nbc reality tv whore!

    failmerica failmerica god shed his piss on thee

    happyfeet (831175)

  86. Actually, it’s a fairly conservative concept to go with “the evil you know” vs “the evil you don’t”.

    It’s also important to have a sense of the gut (or ideological) instincts of the person you’re judging. Hillary is far more of an out-and-out amoral leftist than Trump is, even assuming Trump is fairly liberal in his own right (and I tend to see more squish-squish than flat-out leftism in him, however).

    Moreover, Hillary has shown more displays of a deranged nature (eg, laughing at inappropriate times, along with being a pathological liar—such as stating, even after it had been proven to be a lie, that she as First Lady was forced to run from sniper fire on an airport tarmac in Bosnia). Donald’s biggest weakness, by comparison, is his huge ego and how easily he lashes out when it’s bruised.

    But in the race begun by Barry to decimate, third-world-ize and banana-repblic-ize the US, Hillary will finish the job far better, far more thoroughly, than Donald will do.

    Mark (f713e4)

  87. “Funeralguy: So the shooting and killing was ideological? In short terrorism?

    DavidWilson”

    You are objectively a festering douchenozzle, DavidWilson

    JD (34f761)

  88. You are objectively a festering douchenozzle, DavidWilson

    That, JD is not objective. Perhaps accurate, but objective , no.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  89. narciso,

    blizzards in july

    are getting more and more common. Sun is predicted to be headed for a Maunder Minimum in the 2030 decade, and then things will get even more interesting.

    Meanwhile our “leaders” are gathered in Paris to divvy up what remains of private wealth in brave defiance of terrorist threats.

    BobStewartatHome (a52abe)

  90. If the race comes down to Hillary vs. Trump and Hillary pulls clearly ahead in the polls I’ll have to support Hillary. Gerald A (949d7d)

    I don’t know what your political instincts or biases are (I vaguely recall seeing your name posted here in the past), but to make a comment like that implies you should acknowledge (if you haven’t done so already) that you’re fairly liberal.

    Mark (f713e4) — 11/28/2015 @ 9:40 am

    I was being facetious. I was trying to figure out the underlying logic of this (after I pointed out that Trump supports PP):

    Great Caesar’s Ghost. Damn. And he was doing so well, too! Guess, I’ll have to settle for one of the also rans from the kiddy table.

    papertiger (c2d6da) — 11/28/2015 @ 6:11 am

    papertiger, who clearly thinks Planned Parenthood are murderers, is a big time Trump supporter and Trump supports Planned Parenthood.

    It was a mistake to even try to decode what papertiger was trying to say there but I thought he was saying “He’s ahead isn’t he?” So I was thought I’d apply his “logic” to the general race if it comes down to Hillary vs. Trump.

    But I realize it was a mistake, since there is no logic there.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  91. Mark – Where should I move?

    JD (0e5c29)

  92. Roe v. Wade is a super-precedent, remember?

    nk (dbc370) — 11/28/2015 @ 8:44 am

    Actually the courts cannot stop abortion. That has to be done by the individual states. The courts can allow or prevent states from enacting pro-life legislation. The abortion cases that have reached SCOTUS in recent years have permitted the states to enact pro-life legislation by 5-4 margins, with Kennedy being one of the 5.

    A sweeping ruling that reverses Roe-Wade would not end legal abortion. Any state that wants to could still allow virtually all abortions if that happened. Anyone who is relying on the courts to stop virtually all legal abortion doesn’t understand our system of govt.

    Seemingly the pro-life Trumpsters simultaneously blame the courts for not doing more to stop abortion (even more than they’re able to do) while hoping for a President who would nominate justices who tip would the balance to the pro-abort side.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  93. choose life

    happyfeet (831175)

  94. !

    happyfeet (831175)

  95. The only lapse in logic is my not challenging Gerald’s assertion that Trump supports PP.

    Where? When? With what caveats and conditions?

    But also you thinking I’m going to jump ship over one issue that a President has fark all to say about it happening or not.

    A president could urge at most that congress withhold federal grants. That wouldn’t closePP.

    Maybe they could investigate with the AG, maybe not. Do they have jurisdiction?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  96. planned parenthood is a symbolic issue Mr. tiger

    (cause of they do not choose life)

    Mr. Trump doesn’t strike me as someone who gets all too rip-roaring hee-doggy about symbolic issues

    this is a feature

    happyfeet (831175)

  97. whereas Mr. Ted Cruz journeys to nether cousinhump kentucky to arm wrassle Mike Huckabee for the heady pleasure of snuffling Kim Davis’ uber-righteous bum for the cameras

    happyfeet (831175)

  98. i don’t drink but sometimes i need a stiff drink

    happyfeet (831175)

  99. The Supreme Court can stop clinical killing and planned cannibalism. As much as any proscriptive law or moral statement can achieve under threat of fiscal penalties, planned liberty, etc. What they cannot do is stop violence carried out against a human life that is completely defenseless and without a voice, including premeditated murder of human babies in the back alley, etc. Still, while a religion or moral philosophy cannot determine an outcome, it is preferable to normalize or promote functional rather than dysfunctional orientations and behaviors as a matter of best practices.

    n.n (0b901a)

  100. the supreme court can’t even stop obamacare

    a more useless buncha whores there never were

    one direction aside

    happyfeet (831175)

  101. the supreme court can’t even stop obamacare

    That’s true. I should have wrote “could” rather than “can”. They seem oblivious to reality as they listen to voices emanating from the penumbra that command them to be ambiguously judgmental.

    n.n (0b901a)

  102. they’re all ivy league trash from like the same two schools

    they’re the ones too butt-ugly for private sector work

    happyfeet (831175)

  103. The only lapse in logic is my not challenging Gerald’s assertion that Trump supports PP.

    Where? When? With what caveats and conditions?

    But also you thinking I’m going to jump ship over one issue that a President has fark all to say about it happening or not.

    A president could urge at most that congress withhold federal grants. That wouldn’t closePP.

    Maybe they could investigate with the AG, maybe not. Do they have jurisdiction?

    papertiger (c2d6da) — 11/28/2015 @ 3:24 pm

    Speaking on CNN’s “New Day” Tuesday morning, Trump said that before defunding Planned Parenthood entirely, he would look at the positive aspects of the organization.

    “I would look at the good aspects of it, and I would also look because I’m sure they do some things properly and good for women. I would look at that, and I would look at other aspects also, but we have to take care of women,” he said. “The abortion aspect of Planned Parenthood should absolutely not be funded.”

    However, under current law, no government funding is allowed to go to abortions, which Planned Parenthood says make up 3 percent of its services.

    The President has about as much to say about PP funding as pretty much anything else outside foreign policy/military operations, and federal court appointments. He could not do much of anything he advocates about the border or immigration by himself – other than reversing Obama’s executive order…but that’s because it was not done legally in the first place.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  104. Of course they can but they don’t want to, this has been clear.

    narciso (c338bc)

  105. #104

    Trump has kind of gone back and forth on PP in the fashion that is typical for him. The above interview was just a week after saying that he’d be willing to shut down the govt. over PP funding. In the interview he backed off that. Since that interview you could probably find some other statement where he said he’d remove all funding. It’s anybody’s guess what he really thinks but I doubt really supports defunding it.

    Lila Rose, the head of LiveAction, a pro-life activist group, also took Trumps comments as changing his previous stance supporting abortion funding.

    She told LifeNews.com: “Trump’s vacillation on Planned Parenthood funding is deeply troubling, and reveals an ignorance about their horrific abortion practices–their killing over 320,000 children a year, and bartering to sell the body parts of those they abort. It’s obvious from Mr. Trump’s comments that he has not watched the Planned Parenthood videos released by Center for Medical Progress. That is the only way he could recommend to continue funding this abortion conglomerate that is totally unnecessary and any organization that engages in these human rights abuses does not deserve a penny of tax payers’ money. It would be better spent on health services that would save the lives of women and babies. I challenge Mr. Trump to watch the videos.”

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  106. It was a mistake to even try to decode what papertiger was trying to say there but I thought he was saying “He’s ahead isn’t he?” So I was thought I’d apply his “logic” to the general race if it comes down to Hillary vs. Trump.

    Since I whip through many posts in these threads, I apologize for not tracking your conversation more carefully to get a gist of its actual meaning. But it’s a relief I misinterpreted it since the idea of any contributor to this forum — unless he or she is a dyed-in-the-wool, raving liberal — being so oddly apolitical or philosophically un-tethered that a leftist loon like Hillary Clinton is given even a second of consideration on the November 2016 ballot.

    Mark (f713e4)

  107. we should all listen very carefully to what lila rose says cause of she is smart and she chooses LIFE

    happyfeet (831175)

  108. yes, if the answer is hillary, you have the wrong question,

    I don’t know. My question is “which presidential candidate has committed the most indictable crimes?”, and “Hillary” seems a perfectly good answer for that.

    Milhouse (8489b1)

  109. If the question, is she a suitable presidential candidate, the answer could not be yes.

    narciso (c338bc)

  110. the idea of any contributor to this forum — unless he or she is a dyed-in-the-wool, raving liberal — being so oddly apolitical or philosophically un-tethered that a leftist loon like Hillary Clinton is given even a second of consideration on the November 2016 ballot.

    That sentence is missing its ending. But no matter, you make yourself clear. Let me make myself clear. If it came down to Trump v Clinton, I’d rather have Clinton. Not because she’s fit to hold office; she isn’t, but neither is he. Of the two, I think she’s the lesser evil, or at least the devil we think we know. And who knows how long she’d last in office?

    But I don’t think it will come down to that. I still don’t think she’ll get the D nomination. My nightmare is that it comes down to Don v Michelle. In that case I either vote for whomever the libertarians put up, or for the ghost of Barry Goldwater.

    Milhouse (8489b1)

  111. Of the two, I think she’s the lesser evil

    Milhouse, I question the core of your conclusion if only because your ideological instincts have leaned left on occasion, meaning I’m not always confident in the accuracy of your judgment of people and situations.

    BTW, my sentence still stands since I was wondering how anyone, unless he or she has liberal (and foolish) impulses, would ever think Hillary deserves more than a second of serious consideration when looking at next year’s ballot.

    Mark (f713e4)

  112. Mark, your sentence made no sense. It was not English.

    Milhouse (8489b1)

  113. Trump is not worthy of the presidency and not worthy of discussion.

    Patterico (84cca9)

  114. Point taken, but kovaleski’s record re the huntress, re nakoula and tsarnaev are worthy of note.

    narciso (c338bc)

  115. That’s Patterico speak for I’m not going to defend Trump because he’s not my guy.

    But by your own evidence Trump has vacillated between distaste of, and out right hate for Planned Parenthood, Gerald. Which means your attack is an unfair potshot aimed at him, just like the rest of them coming from all corners of the map.

    My reading of it

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  116. I think that re the wonderful kovaleski, speaker of ‘truth to power’

    narciso (c338bc)

  117. the wonderful kovaleski will hide away, letting others continue the pretense that he is a helpless spastic with flailing arms. As long as it’s politically expedient. Truth be damned.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  118. 114.Trump is not worthy of the presidency and not worthy of discussion.

    That’s true of half the Republican field and the entire democrat/socialist field. So, we’re no longer discussing presidential politics?

    Actually, I really thought Trump would self destruct by now. Nevertheless, in the spirit of our Republic and our Party should Trump be our candidate I will support him 100% to defeat the forces of socialism, communism, and evil represented by the opposition. I’d rather have an imperfect Trump than a perfect commie any day of the week. If you want to see another 50mm illegal aliens allowed in and possibly hundreds of thousands of moslems then that’s up to you. If you’re comfortable with sexual perversion being elevated to saint status, a Caucasian and Christian minority in America, the loss of Free speech and the right to bear arms that’s on you. I hope three more Ruth Bader Ginsburg’s on the Court excites you. Because no matter how bad you fantasize Trump to be, I guarantee Hillary! is worse. Much worse.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  119. the presidency is not what it once was

    bush didn’t do the office any favors and now obama’s turned it into a giant sucking whore magnet

    this is why jebbie thinks he has such a great shot

    happyfeet (831175)

  120. Mark, your sentence made no sense. It was not English.

    Okay, Milhouse. Let me rephrase it. I notice you leaning left on occasion in this forum. Is that not correct?

    Mark (f713e4)

  121. Because no matter how bad you fantasize Trump to be, I guarantee Hillary! is worse. Much worse.

    The only people who I won’t have suspicions about if they refute that point and claim Trump is as bad as Hillary are those who are flat-out, dyed-in-the-wool, confirmed conservatives or rightwingers. By contrast, when “centrists” make that same claim, red flags should go up.

    Mark (f713e4)

  122. Mark, I don’t care who refutes that. The fact is the next president may just be appointing three new SC justices. Unless you’re comfortable with three far left radical ACLU justices you best not vote democrat/socialist regardless of who the Republican is. Don’t vote Libertarian nor Constitutional and don’t not vote and think you’re some kind of martyr. You’re not. You’re giving the election to a dyed-in-the-wool commie, lying grifter. If she or her ilk get to appoint a bunch of “Perry’s” to the SC our nation is through. That will put six leftists in for ten to twenty years. Do you want Obama/Hillary! making policy by proxy for twenty years? I would vote for a Republican candidate in a coma before I’d let these enemies of the Republic win.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  123. Hoagie, I totally agree with your take on the situation. I’m just saying that unless I know a person is fully, totally aware of the ideological underpinnings of Trump and Clinton — and of people in general — I don’t trust what is behind his/her comment if he says that Hillary is preferable to Donald.

    I’m thinking of, for example, all the cocktail-circuit Republicans who are known to say, “shhh, please don’t talk about his/her politics! That’s rude and is prying into overly personal matters!” Or, most certainly, the various Republicans feeding at the trough (eg, “I need and demand cheap labor!!”) who cavalierly believe that if things do get beyond the pale, they’ll happily proclaim, “Okay, I’m voting with my feet and the moving van—-so long, suckers!”

    Mark (f713e4)

  124. Okay, Milhouse. Let me rephrase it. I notice you leaning left on occasion in this forum. Is that not correct?

    Only by your peculiar (and virulently homophobic) definition of “left”.

    Milhouse (8489b1)

  125. 43. Funeralguy: So the shooting and killing was ideological? In short terrorism?

    DavidWilson (d7dde7) — 11/28/2015 @ 2:10 am

    We can add this to the list of things you don’t know about.

    terrorism

    (DOD) The unlawful use of violence or threat of violence, often motivated by religious, political, or other ideological beliefs, to instill fear and coerce governments or societies in pursuit of goals that are usually political. See also antiterrorism; combating terrorism; counterterrorism; force protection condition.
    Source: JP 3-07.2

    If you shoot your neighbor because your neighbor after getting into a heated argument when you find out he’s a Ted Cruz supporter, and you can’t stand conservatives, the motive for your murder is ideology. But it’s not terrorism if you don’t have some larger goal of coercing society or the government to change its ways.

    Steve57 (a13395)

  126. Only by your peculiar (and virulently homophobic) definition of “left”.

    Milhouse, your reaction (which is classically liberal or leftist in nature) confirms my earlier assessment of your innate ideological orientation. I can often detect left-leaning biases from a mile away, but I wasn’t totally sure if I got your number correctly. But I did.

    As the saying goes, thanks for playing the game.

    Mark (f713e4)

  127. I can often detect left-leaning biases from a mile away

    Of course you can, because you define “left” in your own idiosyncratic way. So anyone who dissents from your slavering homophobia is by your definition a leftist. That makes Patterico a leftist too.

    Milhouse (8489b1)

  128. Milhouse, the very fact you use a cliched liberal word like “homophobia” is the very essence of left-leaning bias. But issues revolving around the GLBT aren’t the only times where I’ve detected liberal sentiment in you, such as this thread itself. So I have a better idea of what makes you tick, such as your being less disgusted by Hillary Clinton (if at all—perhaps you’re mainly or merely unimpressed by her) than by Donald Trump.

    Mark (f713e4)

  129. I am a proud liberal. Liberalism is the politics of freedom: free trade, freedom of contract, of expression and religion, of self-defense, etc. It is the politics of the right. The liberal political movement arose directly from the Anti Corn Law League, the original free trade movement. I expect that almost everyone here is basically a liberal, though obviously not you.

    Socialists are thieves, though, and one thing they stole was the name “liberal”. By now they’ve used it up and spit it out, and are back to calling themselves “Progressives”, as they did 100 years ago. Perhaps it’s time for us to reclaim it.

    Homophobia is a real thing; the name is unfortunate, but the phenomenon is real and ugly. One has only to read your output for a while to see how real and how vicious it can be. You are seething with hatred for good people who have done you no harm, over something that couldn’t possibly ever be your business. And I suspect that the reason you hate Clinton so much is not for any of her documented crimes, nor for her avarice, nor even for her dictatorial policies, but for the cheap rumors that circulate about her private life.

    Milhouse (8489b1)


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