Trump: Zero Class
This really does deserve its own thread.
I liked The Kelly File much better without @megynkelly. Perhaps she could take another eleven day unscheduled vacation!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 25, 2015
"@bigpaulfla: @realDonaldTrump She has come back looking like Nancy Grace"
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 25, 2015
"@mstanish53: @realDonaldTrump @megynkelly The bimbo back in town . I hope not for long ."
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) August 25, 2015
Fox has demanded an apology (which itself is silly). During the press conference from the post below, Trump said he will not apologize, and that Megyn Kelly should really apologize to him. For asking tough questions, apparently.
What a simpering, small, weak, obsessive little baby he is.
P.S. During the press conference he also justified his obsessive tweets about Kelly, saying: “When people treat me unfairly, I don’t let them forget it.”
Put that guy in charge of the IRS!!!
UPDATE: This is pretty good.
I liked Andy Levy’s tweet:
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 8/25/2015 @ 7:47 pmThat was great!
felipe (56556d) — 8/25/2015 @ 8:31 pmnekulturny
Kevin M (25bbee) — 8/25/2015 @ 8:43 pmSomeone ought to count the Me, I, Mine, etcs in Trump and Obama’s speeches to see who is the bigger narcissist. I mean, do we really want another statist self-absorbed sociopath in the White House?
Kevin M (25bbee) — 8/25/2015 @ 8:50 pmI went on Twitter and called Trump thin-skinned, narcissistic, and weak — and all these Trump supporters (people who praised him in other tweets) said in different words: So is Obama!
To which I said: well, yeah.
Apparently people like a narcissist if they think he’s their narcissist.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 8/25/2015 @ 8:53 pm#4
No.
But that is all that runs these days…. all of them.
I am self absorbed… it is one of my worst predilections… but it makes it easy to see that almost all the candidates just find clever ways to disguise “I. Me. Mine.”
Although the worst ever was Obama talking about “his” military. Technically true, but disconcerting to say the least.
Trump in charge of the IRS would be a nightmare… but if he breaks the IRS I am OK with it.
Trump in charge of foreign policy? Nightmare. But would other nations fear us? Yep. Hell, I’d fear us and I am part of the “us”.
My guess with Trump.
steveg (fed1c9) — 8/25/2015 @ 9:04 pmHe’ll flare out, make friends with Megyn… then tell his friends he didn’t and bank a couple few more billions
He is in it to make a few more billions out of the notoriety. All of this noise about doing good for the country is nonsense beyond what makes Trump more…
steveg (fed1c9) — 8/25/2015 @ 9:12 pmSome of said nonsense may be unintentional and he may indeed win the nomination, but my guess is that he wins $$$ while teaching GOP how to counter critics with the courage of a narcissist… everyone else is wrong.
The world is now upside down and Trump… from his perch as resident curmudgeon and chief narcissist at least is willing to say so.
Ted Cruz is more likely to do away with the IRS than Trump. Trump would see it as too valuable a tool of potential revenge.
So is Cruz, but his message is being drowned out by the whiny little baby with the stupid hair. Murica!
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 8/25/2015 @ 9:14 pmPerhaps it is time to revisit this evergreen:
Who Goes Nazi?, Harper’s August 1941.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 8/25/2015 @ 9:28 pmThe parody of Trump as Abraham unconsciously reveals a truth: That Trump is an iconoclast of politics. I am sure that many of my fellow “muricans” feel that some of our elected “betters” take themselves either too seriously, or take us for fools. Even the Parody Trump wields no guile, employs no lofty verbiage, but speaks simply – as though it were a bad thing.
felipe (56556d) — 8/25/2015 @ 9:31 pmAnd if Ted Cruz could win, that would be very interesting.
As it is, Vice President Cruz will have a few use to buttress and broaden his resume and name recognition, and maybe then.
Finally, a Leader Who Gets Things Done (044925) — 8/25/2015 @ 9:36 pm*
Finally, a Leader Who Gets Things Done (044925) — 8/25/2015 @ 9:37 pmuseI prefer Cruz.
steveg (fed1c9) — 8/25/2015 @ 10:09 pmHe is not one of the people I characterize as narcissistic.
Right now it does not look like he can get the nomination, fingers crossed or not.
Our nation does not seem disposed at this point to doing the best thing… instead we seem on the road to nominating a very articulate carnival barker… one that would be a better President (by light years) than the incumbent, but still…
I glanced through the free part of that article and was not necessarily persuaded by the specific examples offered. However, I believe that the Trump supporters here would be Putin supporters in Russia.
I believe that very firmly, actually.
What you believe doesn’t matter. The nature of your character doesn’t matter. All that matters is whether weak people who are impressed by bluster are willing to drool over your own high opinion of yourself.
PUTIN 2016!!!!
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 8/25/2015 @ 10:14 pmRight now it does not look like he can get the nomination, fingers crossed or not.
steveg (fed1c9) — 8/25/2015 @ 10:09 pm
****mixed metaphor warning****
Steveg, you must be kidding! Are you throwing in the towel right after kick-off, just because team Cruz knelt it at the ten yard line? Have a little faith. It’s going to be a loooong campaign.
felipe (56556d) — 8/25/2015 @ 10:21 pmPatterico (3cc0c1) — 8/25/2015 @ 10:14 pm
Ouch! You are taking no prisoners tonight.
felipe (56556d) — 8/25/2015 @ 10:23 pmHis ego rivals Obama’s.
AZ Bob (34bb80) — 8/25/2015 @ 10:43 pmThe planning is remarkable. We could have waited and beat the opposition senseless. It’s no wonder they keep winning despite our unplanned advantage.
n.n (b378dc) — 8/26/2015 @ 12:58 amI think we have the deepest and most talented and conservative field ever to seek the nomination, and most are not getting heard because of the Kardashian campaign.
There are certainly some extremist elements – the whole “cuck-servative” wave comes from white supremacists – but most of them are just beguiled by a huckster telling them what they want to hear, so that they do not evaluate him critically. The hero-worship of such a man is disturbing, though. They should ask his former business partners and creditors about the costs of trusting Donald Trump’s word.
Estragon (ada867) — 8/26/2015 @ 3:26 amTeam republican has no answer for Trump, so blame the people that won’t vote for republicans feeding at the trough of the taxpayer.
mg (31009b) — 8/26/2015 @ 3:33 amAnother losing strategy by team whatever.
Trump represents a revolt by the Republican base against the RINOs that control the Party. Unless the RINOs address the base’s concerns, most especially about limiting immigration, the base will stay home next year, and the Democrats will win the Presidency and both Houses regardless of whom they nominate.
bob sykes (be5b42) — 8/26/2015 @ 4:11 amPS. We may be witnessing the death throes of the Republican Party.
bob sykes (be5b42) — 8/26/2015 @ 4:12 amToday Trump, tomorrow Camacho.
Our politicians are a symptom. The problem was never the political party, or the deficit, or any policy in particular. It’s the cultural decay, brought on by erosion in family and manipulation of education and media. It’s practically a force of nature now.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 8/26/2015 @ 4:27 amMost journalists and bloggers don’t understand the reason folks like Trump. Just ask yourself when was the last time some said
“We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win.”
Trump intends to win. He shouts he’s American. He promotes American greatness. People liken him to Reagan but he’s cast in the mold of JFK.
cedarhill (76c70c) — 8/26/2015 @ 4:28 amyou’re a mean one mr. trump
happyfeet (831175) — 8/26/2015 @ 4:31 amand dumb as f*ck too
which is worse than being mean
happyfeet (831175) — 8/26/2015 @ 4:41 amI wouldn’t eat cookies made with burro droppings, either.
nk (dbc370) — 8/26/2015 @ 4:51 amOreo factory is moving to Mexico to increase profits. Nabisco’s parent company made a $3.92 billion profit in 2013. The move will cause a loss of 600 U.S. jobs and a small boycott. http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-nabisco-mondelez-plant-0730-biz-20150729-story. html
nk (dbc370) — 8/26/2015 @ 4:54 amThe link works from Google. Try again. http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-nabisco-mondelez-plant-0730-biz-20150729-story.html
nk (dbc370) — 8/26/2015 @ 4:58 amthey’re tasty cookies yes yes yes but oreo is more than a cookie it’s a brand it’s a brand it’s a GLOBAL brand with lots of lucrative brand extensions!
gogogo big oreo!
and by the way not even trump’s trashy eurohooker wives have had an oreo in years and years since in the sewer-states where he finds these bimbos packaged cookies are only for rich people, to say nothing of trump himself
he’s lying about ever having had an oreo i bet
yes yes yes that is my hypothesis
(like how he lies about how much money he’s worth)
he’s so trashy we need to develop a whole new vocabulary for to discuss him
happyfeet (831175) — 8/26/2015 @ 5:00 ami betcha most of those 600 people what are gonna lose their jobs are piggy piggy union thugs
that falls under the heading of “stuff what can’t go on forever won’t” I think
(kinda like failmerica’s hyper-protectionist sugar cartel)
happyfeet (831175) — 8/26/2015 @ 5:06 amThey have Sokofreta from Greece. There’s nothing better.
nk (dbc370) — 8/26/2015 @ 5:07 amBob Sykes,
The RINOs in the Republican party are easily more Conservative than Donald “look at me, I’m an arse” Trump. Trump isn’t in this to make America great again. He’s determined it’s one great big popularity contest and he intends to win the popularity contest. It worked on the Democrat side for the past 8 years as the Conservatives pointed out that that’s exactly what was happening. And we mocked them for it, while metaphorically weeping for this country. Well, now it’s happening on the Republican side. It’s gross, what Trump is doing to the Presidential Primary. All for a mega ego boost.
Anti-gun
Single Payer
Pro Socialist tax structure
Pro Big Government
Retaliatory childish use of governmental powers
For out of the fullness of the heart, a man speaks, and what Trump says is “(pathol) a foul-smelling watery discharge from a wound or ulcer “
John Hitchcock (7a7baa) — 8/26/2015 @ 5:35 amoh that looks good
I’m still supposed to try those hippos too
but i’m on restriction right now
happyfeet (831175) — 8/26/2015 @ 5:38 amExactly. And yet many of the most conservative Republicans are supporting him. I alluded to why this is happening on another thread. Many conservatives have developed this weird fixation on the “Republican establishment” or GOPe as they like to call it. They conclude, correctly, that the GOPe opposes Trump, and that’s all they need to know.
I think any attempt to point out what’s really going on with Trump simply causes them to regard the person making the points as GOPe.
If he actually gets elected he’ll be doing things left and right that, if an “establishment” Republican did them, would be causing these “conservatives” to hit the roof.
I give him credit where credit is due: Shining light on the illegal immigrant issue. It’s unfortunate how a lot of Republican politicians are unable to do or say the right thing on that.
Gerald A (e1ec12) — 8/26/2015 @ 6:08 am#23 Dustin, you are spot on.
The politicians are not the problem, the people voting (or not voting in many cases) are.
Mark Johnson (5c2d01) — 8/26/2015 @ 7:17 ami thought the problem was people are eating too much salad
happyfeet (831175) — 8/26/2015 @ 7:19 amGerald, it’s amazing how many people have been accusing me of being a Liberal, a Democrat, a MOBY, etc. And, yes, that c**kservative thing. I’ve heard it’s a term I don’t want to look up to find out what it means, so I haven’t looked it up. But the idea that I’m Left of Center, much less Liberal, is so laughable that I usually do when I see it.
John Hitchcock (f61b9f) — 8/26/2015 @ 9:38 amLet’s assume for the sake of argument that Trump believes Ailes and Fox News don’t want his candidacy to succeed. What better way to deal with that than to try to discredit the highest-rated personality at Fox News?
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/26/2015 @ 1:49 pmshe’s working really hard to discredit herself though
i think she’s just a truly obnoxious person, which is not to say that Mr. Trump isn’t pretty obnoxious himself
i wouldn’t let either of them have one of my chocolate hippos though if I had some
“hi happy can I have one of your chocolate hippos?” they’d say
“go eff yourself you losers,” I’d say in reply. “Get your own damn chocolate hippos. I find you both repugnant.”
happyfeet (831175) — 8/26/2015 @ 1:58 pmTrump’s fight with Kelly is a needless error. A lot of people respect her immensely, and fighting with her makes him seem petty. Real petty.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (5e0a82) — 8/26/2015 @ 2:06 pmI don’t like Trump but he is right about immigration and the GOP needs to listen and come up with more rational solutions.
Europe is having terrible problems with out of control immigration right now. I’m going to England and Belgium in two weeks. We will avoid the Eurostar train which goes through the “Chunnel” and take the surface ferry to Belgium from Dover because it has better security. There are rioting Muslim “migrants” at the French end of the Chunnel breaking into trains and setting fires. All they want to do is get to England and get on the Dole.
We are not having as bad a problem and we have a better chance to fixing it. They are not even trying to conceal what is happening.
Indeed, Macedonian authorities again tried to regulate the flows on Sunday, allowing only about 50 people at a time to cross. More than 1,000 migrants have crossed the border so far, according to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.
The flow of migrants toward Macedonia’s southern border is likely to continue, the Macedonian government and aid groups said. The number of migrants, mainly fleeing war and persecution in Syria and Iraq and entering Greece from Turkey, has shot up in recent months, making the country the main entry point into the European Union.
Nearly 142,000 seaborne migrants have arrived in Greece since June 1, according to the International Organization for Migration.
We were going to go to Greece but the place is just too unstable right now. We changed our plans.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 8/26/2015 @ 2:09 pmI am not a Trump fan but burning down the RINO Elite is more important than winning in 2016.
Only way to move the debate RIGHT and move policy RIGHT is to destroy those who are FUGAZY Conservatives. They undermine everything.
Much like Lincoln had to find himself a General to take the fight to the South even if he was not a very good one and a drunk and corrupt — the Republican Voting base needs to find its General to take the fight to the enemy.
And yes, our Country Club Republicans are the biggest enemy of the Republican Base because they hide so well among us.
So count me as rooting for Trump to burn the m*fer down even is he is a douche.
Rodney King's Spirit (ab8c0d) — 8/26/2015 @ 2:10 pmSaltimbocca is better.
I say this not as someone who is dismissive of things Greek.
I’m not a fan of Ouzo, but Metaxa and Dolmadas and Skordalia, efcharisto!
But Saltimbocca is the best thing on Earth.
Steve57 (3b2e7d) — 8/26/2015 @ 2:26 pmThe Democrats will blame global warming. The GOP establishment won’t challenge the assertion.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/26/2015 @ 2:31 pmI probably shouldn’t talk this way considering I own a Japanese restaurant.
And the food we serve is d@mned good. I’d stack my Ishiyaki Kobe beef against anybody’s.
Still, though, if you’re talking the tippy top of the Everest of the food world, it’s got to be the Saltimbocca.
Steve57 (3b2e7d) — 8/26/2015 @ 2:33 pmSteve57, my grandma’s pot roast with mashed potatoes and gravy and
mg (31009b) — 8/26/2015 @ 2:49 pmanything my mom cooked is minimum top of K2.
You’re a fellow restaurateur, Steve57? No wonder your politics make so much sense, good taste is your forte. Oh, and don’t forget the Osso Buco.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27) — 8/26/2015 @ 3:10 pmHow could I forget the Osso Buco?
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m getting hungry.
I figger I’ll head downtown and get the Tuna Tataki with Cilantro Sauce.
And I know just the place where to get it.
And that’s d@mded goods eats!
It pains me to say it, and I’m sure mg’s grandma made a fine meat loaf and all, and I would have loved to have eaten it, but the Saltimbocca kicks tail.
I have to call it like I see it.
By a nose. Just by a nose. It doesn’t mean nothing else is good.
Steve57 (3b2e7d) — 8/26/2015 @ 3:39 pmPaella on wood coals.
mg (31009b) — 8/26/2015 @ 4:17 pmYou people are killing me.
Ok, you asked for it.
Scallops over pasta in a Marsala sauce.
It’s not a classic. It’s just something I thought up.
I’m sure I’m not the first one.
http://www.subzin.com/quotes/M994824f8/Top+Gun/I+had+the+shot.+There+was+no+danger%2C+so+I+took+it.
I had the scallops. I had the Marsala. There was no danger. So I cooked it.
Steve57 (3b2e7d) — 8/26/2015 @ 4:40 pmA little salt, pepper, olive oil, garlic, onion, and whatever seems good to you.
And of course the wine.
Steve57 (3b2e7d) — 8/26/2015 @ 4:53 pmDRJ, you asked (#39):
I’ve got several problems with that question.
To start with, I have to question the strategic wisdom of someone who seeks to win the 2016 election treating the biggest and most influential conservative-skewing (if inadequately for the hardest core) news network as if they need to be crushed and destroyed.
That Trump is trying to engage Fox News in some sort of egotistical duel is just another indication that he lacks anything remotely close to a presidential temperament. The rough equivalent would have been if Nixon, instead of obsessing about the WaPo, had instead had an obsessive hatred of the National Review.
Discrediting anyone in the media ought to be pretty far down on the priority list of any Republican who hopes to win the election, but if you’re going to include that as a line item on your list, shouldn’t you start with someone who’s a Democratic operative with a byline — i.e., pretty much everyone else in the mainstream media who doesn’t work for Fox News (or a small handful of very much smaller media companies, e.g., Salem Broadcasting)?
The “better way” would be to act like a responsible candidate. He’s incapable of that — and some people think that irresponsibility and egotism is a feature instead of a bug.
Beldar (fa637a) — 8/26/2015 @ 4:53 pmThe “better” way you describe is the Establishment way. I submit that doesn’t work for populist candidates.
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/26/2015 @ 5:23 pmNewscorp does play favorites, there isn’t any doubt about that, that being said there are smart and foolish ways of waging war,
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/26/2015 @ 5:26 pmBarbie Batlash was totally incompetent, ok? This was her question (close):
Kelly: “You’ve called women you don’t like fat pigs, clubs, dogs, and disgusting animals,”
Trump: “Only Rosie O’Donnell.”
Kelly: [something more]
Kelly: “Does that sound like the temperament of a man we should elect as president?”
Now, how does this belong in a Presidential debate with ten participants? Were the other nine also to talk about calling Rosie O’Donnell a fat pig? This was the kind of question for a TabloidTV interview.
nk (dbc370) — 8/26/2015 @ 5:39 pmCrushed and destroyed?
We must not be talking about the same Fox News. The one I watch has been banned outright by a sitting president. Boycotted by the ruling party. Investigated by FBI via illegal wiretap.
Somehow a little bit [] tiny criticism from the Donald, and Fox News is crushed?
Fox must really be smitten with Trump if his slightest rebuke causes them to run & hide in the bathroom. Nursing their sorrow in the pages of a Tigerbeat.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/26/2015 @ 5:47 pmThat’s what flummoxes me. There are smart people I know — including on this blog — who positively support the guy. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. He is not a conservative.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 8/26/2015 @ 5:49 pmMy reply:
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27) — 8/26/2015 @ 5:51 pmWell Kelly, does the election of a man you would elect as President hinge on his temperment about Rosie O’Donnell and if so, why?
I agree, Patterico. Trump is no conservative. Hell, I don’t even consider him a real Republican. But I must say two things. First, he has made some very important points on illegal immigration and if that gets something done about it then we are already ahead. Second, if Hildabeast or the commie gets the democrap nomination and Trump gets the Republican, who are ya gonna vote for? I have held my nose many times and voted for a Republican I didn’t really like or want, but I cannot hold my nose and vote for a lying grifter or a communist and I refuse not to vote while every pinko leftist, union thug and other assorted OWS types take over the Republic.
Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie (f4eb27) — 8/26/2015 @ 5:58 pmwell yes, that very silly, cue Graham Chapman, now all of the above, hasn’t stopped Rupert from waxing positively about Hillary, or contributions from said organization going into Obama’s pockets,
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/26/2015 @ 6:00 pmTrump isn’t going to act like Bush or Rubio, first because that’s not who he is but also because it wouldn’t work for him any more than it’s working for them. Trump will do this for as long as it works, and it will work for as long as all the other candidates refuse to join him.
Romney didn’t fight back against Obama or the media in 2011-2012. Voters are telling the GOP that’s no longer acceptable in 2015-2016.
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/26/2015 @ 6:04 pmThere are smart people I know — including on this blog — who positively support the guy. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. He is not a conservative.
I keep hearing this echo. “Trump’s not a conservative, not conservative enough, a closet democrat.”
Trump is to the right of Cruz on immigration. Trump is to the right of everyone I think on the useless policy of building windmills and solar ovens on the public dime, instead of gas and coal turbines by private citizen.
Trump is to the right of I guess everybody with regard to how much a butterfly winging across Communist China sends paroxysms and spasms across the whole economy of the Western world.
When was he a Democrat? I’ve seen the report how he gave Hillary the golden handshake, but that was pay to play in the Big Rotten Apple. Not a declaration of principles. Don’t pretend there isn’t a difference.
Show me Trump the Democrat with supporting links, instead of inuendo.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/26/2015 @ 6:08 pmfwiw:
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2011/02/donald-trumps-donations-to-democrats/
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/26/2015 @ 6:15 pmTrump was:
You can choose to believe he has genuinely changed his mind on all these issues. Or you can choose to believe he is a huckster.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 8/26/2015 @ 6:30 pmHe has supported Jeb Bush.
But he thought Republicans were too mean to Mexicans in the last presidential election.
He has proposed a wealth tax in the past.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 8/26/2015 @ 6:33 pm#23… Camacho! Idiocracy is here.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/26/2015 @ 6:54 pmBest of luck to Trump supporters. He is no conservative, shoots from the lip and – when asked questions about current issues – can’t seem to formulate what would constitute a coherent response, much less a knowledgeable opinion.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/26/2015 @ 6:59 pmAnd his immigration stance most likely comes from Melania eying the Mexican pool boy.
nk (dbc370) — 8/26/2015 @ 7:02 pmwell possibly, the other conclusion is he saw the 4 million that didn’t vote last time, and wondered what it would it would take to mobilize them,
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/26/2015 @ 7:19 pmI’ve had a recent conversion on this very topic myself. This is an evolution from never thinking about the subject to learning the awful truth. Of course you’re going to become pro life. Hated the idea of abortion my whole life. Born on the day Roe vs Wade was handed down.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/26/2015 @ 7:59 pmMusic Break. Here are the Jersey Boys.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/26/2015 @ 8:26 pmUnited States Navy Band.
DRJ (#54): By “better way” I meant: the better way to get elected. I’m focused on the GOP winning the White House in 2016, and on the GOP keeping or, preferably, enlarging its majorities in both chambers of Congress.
You say that acting like a responsible candidate is “the Establishment way [but] I submit that doesn’t work for populist candidates.” I’m not following you. Is there some way that being irresponsible “works” for populist candidates? Does it “work” to get them the nomination? Does it “work” to get them elected?
Who was the last genuine populist candidate, in the sense that you mean, who won the GOP nomination? Who was the last genuine populist candidate of either party, in the sense that you mean, who won the general election?
William Jennings Bryan? Teddy Roosevelt, when he ran as the Bull Moose Party nominee?
Is Ted Cruz a populist candidate in the sense that you mean? He’s certainly blunt and confrontational, but I wouldn’t characterize anything he’s said or done as being irresponsible. He’s called Mitch McConnell a liar to his face on the floor of the Senate; certainly a lot of establishment politicians of both parties found that shocking, and I have no doubt but that Cruz expected and, indeed, intended exactly that. Cruz was making a deliberate point.
Do you think Trump is comparably canny? Comparably self-disciplined? Because what Cruz is doing is certainly risky — he’s deliberately throwing bombs and stepping on toes. But he’s being very selective in who he’s targeted, and in when he’s targeted them, and on what particular issues he’s using to target them.
But none of it is an infantile, egotistical reaction to people who’ve criticized him. And that’s all I’m seeing in Donald Trump’s fight with Megyn Kelly.
People say they like Trump for the enemies he makes. Well, I don’t. I don’t put Megyn Kelly, nor Roger Ailes, nor every other GOP candidate running for president except Cruz in the category of “my enemies.” Yet Trump has attacked all of them, to one degree or another, except Cruz.
Who’s going to be left to vote for him by the time he’s done? In Alabama last week, he attacked NASCAR. Is that good strategy too?
He’s making Emperor Caligula look like a paragon of maturity and restraint. It’s clearly working as a rabble-rousing technique, at least in the short term — now, before a single vote has been cast, before a single delegate has been selected.
But how does he ride that crude vitriol to the White House? Is there something about him — some “populism” (which I call hucksterism and con artistry and flat-out pandering and lying) — which will change him from a divider into a uniter, from a thin-skinned reactor into a leader?
Can you imagine Ronald Reagan doing any of the things Trump’s doing?
Beldar (fa637a) — 8/26/2015 @ 10:13 pmGo Beldar. You and I are 100% on the same page here.
I put out a simple statement on Twitter tonight: “Donald Trump is not a conservative.” It has about 26 retweets and 49 favorites after about an hour, which is more action than just about anything I ever put on Twitter gets. I find it interesting that almost twice as many people are willing to sort of express approval in a low-key manner (with a “favorite”) than are willing to stick out their necks with a full and very public retweet. But there have still been a lot of retweets compared to the usual 1-5 I get.
Also: I have been blocked by one guy. I have been accused of (or had it assumed) that I support Jeb Bush –whom I despise — by several people. And many have responded to my statement by saying: “I don’t care.”
This guy is a strongman and a huckster and apparently that gets you somewhere with a few people.
I’m heartened to see that a lot of people still seem to reject such an approach.
The people who approve of his participation who I think are smart, for the most part, I believe, don’t think he has a chance to win. They are more confident about the common sense of voters than I am, and I hope to God they are right.
But I take this guy’s appeal to a lot of poll respondents seriously, and it concerns me, to an extent I find striking.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 8/26/2015 @ 10:22 pmPapertiger (#57), immediately after the first debate, even before Trump’s nasty remarks about Megyn Kelly’s menstrual cycle, Trump’s major-domo Michael Cohen was leading the attack on Kelly by re-tweeting “we can gut her.”
I don’t think that’s a “tiny rebuke” or a “slight criticism.”
nk (#56), if any other candidate on the stage had the history of remarks regarding women that Trump has, I’m reasonably sure they would have been questioned about it. I view the function of these debates as putting the candidates under sharp fire on the points on which the Democrats are certain to attack them. Trump’s repeated comments about women are three or four orders of magnitude more controversial than Romney’s “binders full of women” remark. Trump tries to defend his spectacular bad manners and offensive language by saying, “America is suffering from an excess of political correctness.” Well, that much is true, just like it’s true that America has an immigration and border-control problem. But the fact that Trump says that does not mean that he’s capable of fixing those problems. The fact that he says that in crude and offensive ways makes it spectacularly less likely that he can actually fix those problems. The fact that he says those things in crude and offensive ways make it spectacularly more likely that Hillary Clinton will be the next President.
Successful con men don’t get rich peddling castor oil. They get rich peddling magical youth potions, or bars of lead that will turn into gold, or a handful of beans that are supposed to be magic. Of course Trump has a nose, an instinct, for tapping into issues that are passionate motivating people. So does every con man.
Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) was on the stage with Trump in Alabama last week. Sen. Sessions wrote Trump’s immigration plan. When quizzed by reporters about its details the day it was released, Trump got roughly half of those details completely wrong. If he had to take a multiple choice test about what was in the plan he takes credit for, I doubt he could score a passing grade. Yesterday at his press conference, Trump promised, “If you elect me, we’re going to round up all those bad guys [illegal immigrants who’ve committed crimes] and get rid of them so fast that it will make your head spin.” I dearly wish someone would ask Sen. Sessions, whom I respect, whether his plan — or any plan — could actually do that. I’m certain Sen. Sessions would tell the truth, which would be to say, “No, my plan is a systematic program to address major structural problems with our border control and immigration policies, but we’re not going to be able to identify, arrest, and deport ‘all the bad guys’ in the first day, or week, or month, or year after the next president takes office. That is a fantasy.”
That’s the handful of magic beans. That’s the elixir from the fountain of youth. That’s the Brooklyn Bridge. Why would we think a guy who’s run his companies through four successive waves of bankruptcy could deliver on any of those promises?
“It’s called ‘good management,'” he says, like that’s an answer. “I’m going to get the best people.” Okay, he got Jeff Sessions, who’s good. And now he’s lying about what Jeff Sessions’ plan, for which Trump takes undeserved credit, actually could do, even what it hopes to do.
Beldar (fa637a) — 8/26/2015 @ 10:35 pmDRJ, did you see the video of the encounter last week between actress and LGBT activist Ellen Page? I’m betting you did.
Can you imagine what Donald Trump’s reaction to those same questions would have been?
That was a 5+ minute interchange. Cruz was remarkable for his patience. He didn’t interrupt. He didn’t belittle. He didn’t insult. He didn’t swear or joke.
But neither did he back down. Neither did he toady. Neither did he deliver some mealy-mouthed half-apologetic double-speak. He didn’t say anything nasty about gays or lesbians. He relentlessly, articulately, and passionate stuck to his focus, which was on the danger to religious liberty from forcing people to do things, under compulsion of law, that they genuinely believe would violate their religious principles.
He didn’t convince Ellen Page, of course, nor, likely, anyone else who’s a single-issue voter dedicated to gay rights above everything else.
But I think he might have convinced some people on the margins. Even some people whom he didn’t convince on the merits of his argument at least had to be impressed by his maturity and his civility.
That, I submit, is the way for someone who’s trying to be transformative, who’s trying to unseat the established ways and their most fossilized practitioners, to go about it. Is that “populist”? That’s not the term I’d pick, probably, but that’s why I asked: Do you think Cruz is a populist, in the sense you meant when you used that term earlier?
Beldar (fa637a) — 8/26/2015 @ 10:57 pmCruz was great in that video, just like he was with the Code Pink people. He’s really, really good.
Much of my irritation with Trump is his getting in the way of people discovering a real candidate like Cruz. And my incredulity at people here (not so much random poll-responders, for whom I have contempt) for falling for Trump’s act.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 8/26/2015 @ 11:03 pmBeing almost exactly ten years younger than Trump (we’re both Geminis), I can attack him on his age. Cruz has the stamina of a young man and the maturity of a grown man, suited for patient and intelligent discussion. Trump has the querulousness of an old man, and energy enough only for bursts of abuse.
nk (dbc370) — 8/26/2015 @ 11:09 pmHe’s a low-energy guy.
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 8/26/2015 @ 11:17 pmI can’t tell you how satisfying it has been to have gotten rid of Christoph again (temporarily, I’m sure).
Patterico (3cc0c1) — 8/26/2015 @ 11:18 pm“America is suffering from an excess of political correctness.”
Which is another way of saying the vast left wing media has control of what can but mostly what can’t be said.
So your suggestion to combat this active dictatorship of the mind is to have candidate Cruz tap dance around the thorns of what liberalism says we can talk about, making sure not to disturb which ever flavor of degenerate celebrity (and the libs have all flavors stocked and ready to provide monitor duties), hand holding the heckler while they exercise the veto?
Remove the down vote feature from online comments so that liberal pieties mouthed by astro turfed operatives are never given the instant dismissal they deserve, and if by chance someone takes the time out of their busy day to write out a long form rebuttal, it’s in an easily scrubbed form, ready for disposal.
I practically guarantee you Cruz didn’t win any friends. Real people, voters, don’t have time to patiently suffer through 5+ minutes of Ellen Page’s drivel, so they tuned out to whatever subtle contextualized message Senator Cruz was trying to covey, or more accurately, they skipped the ugly nonsensical heckler haranguing the Senator.
The point Cruz was trying to make, that citizens of the United States shouldn’t be forced to fund the murder of babies at gunpoint, people already are convinced of that.
Ted Cruz’s job is to ask the Ellen’s of the world, being that they are devoted to not breeding, what difference does it make to her? Dismiss the scolds. Attack the bullies. Don’t act as if their diatribes are reasonable. Ellen Page is the heckler’s veto wasting everybody’s precious time.
Stealing precious time away from the candidate.
I would have rather Cruz delivered a 5+ minute lecture of his own back at Ellen Page, cutting her stupid ass off a few times in the bargain. That I would have watched.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/27/2015 @ 1:32 amAnd here is poor put upon Kelly of Fox News, replying as best she can through her split, busted lips.
Megyn Kelly’s Guest on Tonight: Jorge Ramos.
Lucky thing Fox has paramedic serves on standby for their “crushed and gutted” newscasters.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/27/2015 @ 1:41 amThe best entertainment of late is reading the hate for Trump from all the wise guys in suits. Bush/Rove 2016 or Rove/Bush 2016
mg (31009b) — 8/27/2015 @ 3:04 amLegalize the illegals in 2016.
NASCAR has being behaving out of character to it’s nature,
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/27/2015 @ 6:04 amThe political landscape is much more nasty brutish and short, then even ten years ago. As we found a mere seven years ago.
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/27/2015 @ 6:06 amBeldar and Patterico,
Populism is “a belief in the power of regular people, and in their right to have control over their government rather than a small group of political insiders or a wealthy elite.” I consider Cruz a populist because he stands up for ordinary people against, as he calls it, “the Washington Cartel.” Bryan, Long, and other populists were known for their rhetoric, and so is Cruz. They were also known as extremists, which is how many people (in my opinion, unfairly) view Cruz.
I don’t want Trump to win the nomination, I don’t think he’s a conservative, Cruz is my choice for President, and I applaud Cruz’s intellectual approach to politics and his polite attitude toward all people.
But it’s because I want Cruz to win that I’m trying to understand why Trump is resonating with so many people. Frankly, it’s not surprising because Cruz has been saying for years that America needs to dramatically change direction and Trump is saying the same thing, only louder and more dramatically. Trump’s success tells me many Americans agree that they want America to change course, and that’s a positive sign that this won’t be the Year of the Moderate.
As a Cruz supporters, I hope people will watch Cruz in the debates and decide he is a better choice than Trump. Maybe they will and maybe they won’t — we’ll see — but I think the Establishment GOP will do its best to take out Trump and then Cruz. I’m not going to help them.
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/27/2015 @ 7:00 amIn other words, once Trump is discredited or out, then Cruz will be the next target. I think the race will ultimately come down to Cruz vs an Establishment candidate. For now, I’m happy to let the Establishment spend its time and treasure beating Trump instead of Cruz.
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/27/2015 @ 7:06 amDRJ
I think Cruz, Rubio Bush and Kasich are going to have to come up for an answer to Carson who has strength as well, I don’t know if there is time in this really crowded field
EPWJ (075e4e) — 8/27/2015 @ 7:34 amTrump missed a golden opportunity with Horhay Ramos… he could’ve simply asked him if he was ready to “follow/play by the rules” and then apologized to the other reporters for Ramos’s boorish behavior, his insistence on jumping the line and point out the similarities between this and the illegal immigrant MOP.
Colonel Haiku (ef4f0e) — 8/27/2015 @ 7:47 amEPWJ,
Carson is a solid second place but no one seems worried about him, probably because he doesn’t have much money. Money is what makes it possible for the candidates to last long enough to make it through the primaries. Trump, Bush, and Cruz have money, and Rubio has PAC money. The rest don’t, so I think this is why these 3+1 are getting the most attention.
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/27/2015 @ 8:04 amIf Bush keeps floundering, we may see some of his money shift to Kasich or Rubio. Like the Democrats, the Establishment GOP can’t decide who it’s candidate will be. Neither one likes that, and it will be interesting to see how they handle it. That, to me, is the real story at this point in the race.
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/27/2015 @ 8:07 amDRJ
Maybe we should all look up Trump and post what we find, there has got to be a long string of unflattering moments, this guy isn’t for real.
EPWJ (075e4e) — 8/27/2015 @ 8:24 amsteveg (fed1c9) — 8/25/2015 @ 9:04 pm
That would basically be, he’ll make deals. Which would mostly consist of: you goive us money, and restrict exports to the United States, and we won’t just ignore, but we’ll help you violate human rights. (for cash, only)
And we won’t worry about the military balance of power, because the United States is strong.
Not really, not the dictatorship, anyway, because all they have to do is make deals that Trump thinks makes Trump look good. Send money, reduce exports, buy ropes.
He might, eventually, pretend the whole thing never happened, but probably wans to extract an apology first.
At some point 25% is not going to be first place. But he might stay in the race until the convention. He’s in uncharted territory now.
We’ll see if he is really trying to help Hillary Clinton – exceot what happens if Hillary Clinton appears to have lost?
He might try to play kingmaker – except that that would be the kiss of death. So then he might try to play spoiler.
Jeb Bush really does need to figure out to argue with Donald Trump. The New York Times yesterday gave him some tips – and maybe some of them are a little useful. It’s better than the usual New York Times editorial.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/26/opinion/jeb-bush-visita-la-frontera.html
But he, or someody else, needs more.
Sammy Finkelman (6ee5be) — 8/27/2015 @ 8:33 amWell, EPWJ, I don’t want Trump to win but I also don’t want to discredit his message, because he’s doing more to push the GOP right than the moderates ever will. I’ll leave Trump to the Establishment folks. I know they will be glad to try to destroy the conservative message/messenger, because that’s what they do.
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/27/2015 @ 8:36 amDRJ, thanks for that clarification. I thought you were probably using “populist” in that classical sense, focusing on its legitimate features rather than on the tendencies of many who wrap themselves in the mantle of “populism” to simply rouse rabble, to simply play to the mob mentality. So defined in that classical sense, I agree that Cruz is a populist — as was TR, as was Reagan. Trump is just a rabble-rouser.
I certainly agree with you that Trump is distracting the media’s fire that would otherwise be focused on Ted Cruz right now. And I agree that when Trump is gone from the primaries, if Cruz is still in the race — and I hope and expect that he will be — the media will switch to Cruz, and we’ll see the media do its best to “Palinize” him.
Trump does the media’s dirty work for it, though. They’re not even having to try. How much easier will it be for the Democrats to replicate Obama’s two electoral college and popular vote triumphs — even behind comparatively weaker candidates like Hillary!, Sanders, Biden, O’Maley, Warren, or whomever, none of whom have the realistic chance of energizing the Left’s rainbow coalition — if Trump were the GOP nominee?
Cruz, unlike Trump, is strategic in the outrage he provokes. Earlier in this thread, I used the Ellen Page video as one example, and the calling-out of Mitch McConnell as a liar on the Senate floor as another. Papertiger (#81) and others may have no patience with those approaches. For them, Cruz did his machine-gun bacon video; for the sake of not alienating them, Cruz is holding his criticism of Trump.
As I’ve written here before, I think that’s wise of Cruz, at least for the time being. And I think those more establishment-oriented candidates, or if you will, those who are less populist (in the classical sense) — Jeb Bush at the front of that pack — who are trying to respond directly to Trump, who’re attacking him directly, are being unwise. I’m relatively certain that the proximate cause of Trump’s inevitable destruction as a candidate won’t be the mainstream media, nor any Democratic candidate’s criticisms of the GOP in general or Trump in particular, nor any direct attacks from other GOP candidates, nor even the efforts by people like me or Patterico to point out Trump’s on-going con. What will ultimately take down Donald Trump is exactly what brought his companies into bankruptcy four times over the last 25 years: Donald Trump.
But I’m giving him zero credit, zero credibility, in the meantime. He may have raised the temperature of the boiling mix of political issues driving this early-stage primary race. But he added no ingredients that weren’t already there — and boiling your dish too hot, too soon, can leave you with a ruined meal.
Cruz has been continuously tweaking the Left in general, including the mainstream media, at least since he began his campaign for his current Senate seat. He knows their attempt to Palinize him is coming. He embraces that challenge, and will use it constructively.
Donald Trump talking about Megyn Kelly’s menstrual cycles is the exact opposite of that.
Your point about the shifting money and support of more establishment Republicans is also a good one, and I agree with you that Jeb Bush is floundering. I think he’d be floundering with or without Trump’s presence in the race. I think the likely beneficiaries of that are more likely to include Rubio, whom you mentioned, and Walker, whom you didn’t, than Kasich (whose greatest support right now, outside his admittedly crucial home state, comes from Democrats who’d never actually vote for him, but who find him the least offensive among the GOP field).
Thank you, my friend, for your calm and clear response to my questions asking for clarification.
Beldar (fa637a) — 8/27/2015 @ 8:48 amI still think Cruz is a dark horse, and I still wish he had more executive experience and a longer career in the Senate.
Nevertheless, as I continuously re-handicap the race, I’m taking as more plausible the idea of a Cruz-Walker or Cruz-Fiorina ticket than I previously did. It would be in the mold of Reagan-Bush in 1980 against Jimmy Carter, with the Veep selection being made to secure the GOP’s moderate (especially swing-state) constituency the way G.H.W. Bush did for Reagan back when the Dems were confident they could paint Reagan as a crazy warmonger.
But not a vote has been cast, not a delegate has been selected. No one’s even dropped out yet, not even Perry, Graham, or Gilmore.
Beldar (fa637a) — 8/27/2015 @ 8:55 amMaybe Walker can turn things around but I doubt it. HIs campaign reminds me of Rick Perry’s, but with flip-flops and resignations instead of gaffes.
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/27/2015 @ 9:06 amPlus he’s having fundraiser defections. Money is important in races with lots of candidates.
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/27/2015 @ 9:09 amNote how they ignore the Chisholm reign of terror. Doctor evil is steering into a ditch though.
narciso (ee1f88) — 8/27/2015 @ 9:11 amI see a Cruz-Kasich ticket. I don’t care for Kasich but he would reassure the moderates, help deliver a swing state, and add executive experience.
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/27/2015 @ 9:12 amI suspect Rubio would give Kasich consideration for the same reason, if Rubio is the nominee.
DRJ (1dff03) — 8/27/2015 @ 9:14 amThis election must not have a GOP insider. Cruz/West or Cruz/Carson
mg (31009b) — 8/27/2015 @ 9:35 amThey … could paint Reagan as a crazy warmonger. You know who else supported Reagan financially in his run against Jimmy Carter?
Donald Trump.
The further you look back in Trump’s history the more you suspect bad motive by detractors claiming he is a closet stalking horse for the Clinton campaign.
The only reason Pat and others can bash Trump on specific policy positions is because Trump has previous policy positions. Twenty years worth of books highlighting his policy.
Which other candidate can you say that of?
Compared to Trump the others are dilettantes, changing their positions like socks.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 8/27/2015 @ 10:04 ampapertiger,
Trump was broke at the time Reagan was president he struggled constantly in the 80’s and Reagan didn’t need anyones help, fundraising was ridiculously simple and Reagan ran few ads and made few appearances, he had it won hands down, he concentrated on policy. Also campaigns started later and he had the nomination both times by south Carolina.
EPWJ (075e4e) — 8/27/2015 @ 11:36 am