State-Sponsored SWATtings in Wisconsin, Courtesy of “John Doe” Investigations
This is one of the creepiest articles I have ever read. It reminds me of my experience being SWATted — having armed police rush into my home in what looked like retaliation for my speech. Yet in the case described in the article, the SWATting is actually being carried out . . . by the government.
In Wisconsin, citizens had cops bust into their homes with battering rams. Property was taken from their homes, in full view of the neighbors — and in some cases officers mocked them. Then the citizens were told that they could tell nobody about what had happened. If they did, they could go to jail.
All for exercising their First Amendment rights. Essentially, for being conservatives.
Here’s how the article opens:
“THEY CAME WITH A BATTERING RAM.”
Cindy Archer, one of the lead architects of Wisconsin’s Act 10 — also called the “Wisconsin Budget Repair Bill,” it limited public-employee benefits and altered collective-bargaining rules for public-employee unions — was jolted awake by yelling, loud pounding at the door, and her dogs’ frantic barking. The entire house — the windows and walls — was shaking. She looked outside to see up to a dozen police officers, yelling to open the door. They were carrying a battering ram.
She wasn’t dressed, but she started to run toward the door, her body in full view of the police. Some yelled at her to grab some clothes, others yelled for her to open the door.
“I was so afraid,” she says. “I did not know what to do.” She grabbed some clothes, opened the door, and dressed right in front of the police. The dogs were still frantic.
“I begged and begged, ‘Please don’t shoot my dogs, please don’t shoot my dogs, just don’t shoot my dogs.’ I couldn’t get them to stop barking, and I couldn’t get them outside quick enough. I saw a gun and barking dogs. I was scared and knew this was a bad mix.”
She got the dogs safely out of the house, just as multiple armed agents rushed inside. Some even barged into the bathroom, where her partner was in the shower. The officer or agent in charge demanded that Cindy sit on the couch, but she wanted to get up and get a cup of coffee.
“I told him this was my house and I could do what I wanted.” Wrong thing to say. “This made the agent in charge furious. He towered over me with his finger in my face and yelled like a drill sergeant that I either do it his way or he would handcuff me.”
What was their crime? Exercising their First Amendment rights. The article describes how these raids were conducted as part of “John Doe” investigations into whether conservative groups had “coordinated” with Scott Walker in violation of campaign finance laws. I believe such “coordination” is First Amendment activity. If I want to take out full-page newspaper ads about how great Ted Cruz is, and I get ideas that convince me from Cruz’s campaign, I believe that should be covered by the First Amendment. But even if my pro-speech view is not accepted (and so far it has not been), the fact remains that a judge later ruled that there was no legal basis for the investigation that justified these raids, and quashed all the subpoenas.
The investigations were conducted at the behest of a prosecutor whose offices “were festooned with the ‘blue fist’ poster of the labor-union movement.” According to one prosecutor who spoke to journalist Stuart Taylor, the wife of the lead prosecutor, John Chisholm, was “a teachers’-union shop steward who was distraught over Act 10’s union reforms” — and Chisholm “felt it was his personal duty” to stop the reforms. Pursuant to the politically motivated subpoenas lacking in probable cause, prosecutors subpoenaed electronic data such as emails and conducted these abusive raids.
It’s the type of activity you would expect to see from the Stasi in East Germany. Conservative activists in Wisconsin literally do not feel safe. They think that police could burst into their homes at any moment to punish them for their First Amendment activity.
In a country that actually valued freedom, this story would spark front-page headlines all over the country. It would be all anyone would be talking about for weeks, and nobody would rest until we knew it could never, ever happen again.
We are no longer such a country.
UPDATE: Thanks very much to Instapundit for the link — and make sure to check out his piece at USA Today: Wisconsin’s dirty prosecutors pull a Putin. Also, please remember to bookmark the blog and return!
thuggy thuggy failmerican union trash have even more entitlement issues than Ben Affleck and Hillary Clinton and and Jeb Bush all mushed together into one garish smorgasbord of hyper-entitlement
it’s who they are
happyfeet (a037ad) — 4/20/2015 @ 7:49 amand
happyfeet (a037ad) — 4/20/2015 @ 7:49 amhmmm that was supposed to look more like
happyfeet (a037ad) — 4/20/2015 @ 7:50 amandWhat makes it worse is that this is not national news only because it happened to the “other” party from most of the media.
JWB (6cba10) — 4/20/2015 @ 8:24 amthe wife of the lead prosecutor, John Chisholm, was “a teachers’-union shop steward who was distraught over Act 10’s union reforms” — and Chisholm “felt it was his personal duty” to stop the reforms.
Meanwhile, the IRS proclaims, “hey, John, we’ve got your back!”
The US is slowly morphing into a banana republic, and that ain’t just a case of pure glibness.
Mark (6c31df) — 4/20/2015 @ 8:31 amif they hadn’t done anything wrong, the police wouldn’t have been at their house…
redc1c4 (cf3b04) — 4/20/2015 @ 8:36 amHey, this is “old news” that Chisholm’s wife is a union-toadette.
Seriously though, one would hope that all that has gone on under the shield of the “John Doe” investigations, would have Robert La Follette spinning so wildly that the needle at JPL would be off-the-scale.
Chisholm and crew all need to be RICO’d, and then SuperMaxed.
askeptic (efcf22) — 4/20/2015 @ 8:58 amGlad you picked this up from Doc’s comment on the open thread. As I said there, I was disappointed that Walker hadn’t come down hard on his Game Wardens when they performed a similarly excessive raid on an animal shelter. But now I can see that Walker and his supporters were victims of these thuggish tactics. I expect he is suitably concerned by these events. But why hasn’t he done something?
And it was interesting that a Federal District Court Judge ruled in favor the plaintiffs, only to have the ruling overturned by the Seventh Circuit Court. Makes you wonder why we fought a Civil War if 1st Amendment Rights can be revoked by a two-bit county prosecutor in Milwaukee. It was encouraging that after a local judge, Kluka, recused herself …
O’Keefe is a political activist associated with the Wisconsin Club for Growth.
The number of States that I would decline to visit for pleasure grows by the day.
bobathome (ef0d3a) — 4/20/2015 @ 9:00 am“…whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it”
JNorth (5fe1bf) — 4/20/2015 @ 9:01 amthe witchhunt precluded Article 10, it was a more longstanding vendetta,
narciso (ee1f88) — 4/20/2015 @ 9:11 amA just conclusion to this matter would have SCOTUS declaring that the WI statutes used to authorize John Doe investigations are Unconstitutional, and that those participating in these witch-hunts have no immunity for their civil-rights violations – which are legion.
askeptic (efcf22) — 4/20/2015 @ 9:28 amI don’t believe that is “coordination” within the meaning of the law. It’s not the ideas in the ad which you mustn’t have got from the campaign, it’s the placement of the ad itself that must be entirely your own decision, without informing the Cruz campaign or giving them input. In other words, if you call the Cruz campaign and tell them you want to put a full-page ad in tomorrow’s Dog Trainer, and they say “Oh, tomorrow? We’ve already got an ad in there, and the Kochs are running one on Friday, so why don’t you save yours till next Monday?”, that makes your ad effectively part of the campaign, and the money you spend is a contribution, and could be perceived by a suspicious mind as a bribe to Cruz, for which he will owe you a favor if he wins.
If I recall correctly, the alleged coordination (which both Walker and O’Keefe deny ever happened) was over issue advertising, not election ads for Walker. And the judge said not only is this constitutionally protected, but even if it weren’t, and the legislature could make a law against it, it hasn’t. There literally isn’t any law against what Chisholm imagines O’Keefe and Walker to have done.
And the difference between this and coordinated campaign advertising should be obvious. Suppose there’s a proposition that you and Jerry Brown happen to agree on, and you want to spend some money on it, it is perfectly legal for you to speak to the governor or his advisors and work out the best way you can spend your money. There is no way that even a suspicious mind could call this a contribution to Mr Brown, since he gets no benefit if the proposition passes, and suffers no loss if it fails. That he would like it to pass is because he actually believes in it, not because it helps him, so there’s no reason he would owe you a favor for supporting it.
Milhouse (bdebad) — 4/20/2015 @ 9:41 amThe 7th Circuit didn’t disagree with him, they just said there was no tearing emergency that required him to insert himself into the case, since the new state judge had already done what was necessary to stop the travesty in its tracks. O’Keefe is appealing that because he wants a declaratory judgment, not just for him but for all people who might be contemplating doing what he did, assuring them that it’s perfectly legal and they can’t get in trouble for it.
Milhouse (bdebad) — 4/20/2015 @ 9:49 amTar and feathers might be too good for the perpetrators.
Loren (1e34f2) — 4/20/2015 @ 9:52 amWell, it’s a start…..see my #7.
askeptic (efcf22) — 4/20/2015 @ 9:57 amMilhouse, thanks for clarifying the 7th Circuit’s logic. But when you say there is “no tearing emergency” that requires Federal intervention, you seem to dismiss the length and scope of the “john doe” activities. From the National Review article:
The raids ended up encompassing 5 Wisconsin counties, and thus four additional county prosecutors in addition to the one in Mikwaukee. And each raid involved five or ten policemen, only one of whom seems to have harbored some regret in participating in the travesty. Seen in this light, this is a rather massive conspiracy. The 7th must have a lot of faith in the integrity of the Wisconsin judiciary. One that is certainly not borne out by the facts.
Now what happens if the Wisconsin Supreme Court decides Walker is a conservative, and thus he and his supporters are proper targets for prosecution by procedure? Five more years of abuse? World War II was fought and won by the U. S. after starting with almost no Army and a much neglected Navy in four and a half years. This legal abuse started in earnest in May of 2010. We are watering the tree of Liberty with the blood of patriots, but so far the tyrants seem to be enjoying themselves.
bobathome (ef0d3a) — 4/20/2015 @ 10:19 amHorrible. What is the remedy, besides exposure and editorial censure?
SarahW (6f3980) — 4/20/2015 @ 10:19 amHow can a law-enforcement officer constitutionally utter the words “do not call your attorney”?
The Monster (0ab45d) — 4/20/2015 @ 10:38 amSpecial prosecutors were fun when the target was a republican. Not fun when used against Clinton staffers. And people who are outraged because some Occupy people were pushed on the street, will gleefully use police to suppress political opponents– as long as they are republicans. Only when such Doe raids are deployed against democrats, will the left wake up and decides that Doe raids aren’t such a good idea. In the process, we become less of a country, and will do things that would make the Founders shudder. Marius and Sulla. But the left will always want to use the government to suppress speech it does not like. And it seems that only the concrete use of same against them, not the abstract realization that its a bad thing, will change them.
Harcourt Fenton Mudd (5e0a82) — 4/20/2015 @ 10:39 amBobathome, the “length and scope” of the offense is irrelevant. We have a federal system, in which federal judges can’t insert themselves into every state case just because they feel like it. The 7th circuit ruled that since the state judiciary seems to be dealing with it properly, which it is, a federal court has no business sticking its nose in. If the investigation were still going on then, they said, the judge would have been right to stop it; but since a state judge had already stopped it, there was no longer any emergency, and thus no justification for a federal injunction.
In other words, the prosecutors can’t cite the 7th circuit decision as vindication. It was purely procedural.
Of course, from O’Keefe’s point of view there’s still a federal issue that needs to be decided, because there are people being deterred from doing as he did, for fear of suffering as he did. That fear won’t go away because a state judge put a hold on the investigation; they need a federal decision that no such investigations can ever be launched again.
Milhouse (bdebad) — 4/20/2015 @ 10:40 amThis is the equivalent to a tree falling in a forest with no one to hear it. If the dinosaur media does not report it, the vast majority of citizens will not hear of it. The people behind this should wind up in jail, but will probably, at the minimum, wind up with cushy pensions and the gratitude of leftists everywhere. At this point: “What difference does it make?”
Roman (0bfd6d) — 4/20/2015 @ 10:41 amI want to hear and read the Governor of Wisconsin reaction to this abuse.
seeRpea (d1cf05) — 4/20/2015 @ 10:46 amHow can a law-enforcement officer constitutionally utter the words “do not call your attorney”?
The Monster (0ab45d) — 4/20/2015 @ 10:38 am
What are the calls for jail time, disbarment, loss of authority, firings, loss of pensions?
SarahW (6f3980) — 4/20/2015 @ 10:48 amwait there’s more:
http://watchdog.org/213147/tammy-baldwin-ethics-marquette-baylor/
narciso (ee1f88) — 4/20/2015 @ 11:07 amit began inauspiciously:
Why would Chisholm seek such broad powers to investigate a year-old embezzlement claim with a known suspect? Because the Milwaukee County executive, Scott Walker, had by that time become the leading Republican candidate for governor. District Attorney Chisholm was a Democrat, a very partisan Democrat.
Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/417155/wisconsins-shame-i-thought-it-was-home-invasion-david-french
narciso (ee1f88) — 4/20/2015 @ 11:19 ama perfect opportunity for a movie, with the screenplay already half-written. If these brownshirt tactics were being applied to folks holding liberal beliefs, the film would already be in the can and have film critics, MSM and leftwing pundits (but I repeat myself) defecating on themselves in the rush to praise and chatter about Oscars…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/20/2015 @ 11:45 amThe need to encourage those who suffered abuse at the hands of these Nazi’s is paramount. If the Wisconsin Supreme Court does the right thing, and if the Democrats follow their play book, a number of computers and servers will suffer terminal hard drive crashes (a sledge hammer will do) in the five county’s prosecutor’s offices and their respective police and sheriff offices. Next look for testimony that prominently features Hillary’s favorites, “I don’t recall”, and “At this point, what difference does it make?” If all goes well for the Democrats, it will be impossible to identify who participated in these raids. And this episode will be dismissed as a non-story by the LHMFM.
It is ironic that Germany is about to prosecute a 93 year old SS corporal who logged in the personal belongings of 300,000 Jews who were headed for the gas chambers over a 2 month period. He was, after all just doing his duty, but he probably made the mistake of signing some reports. And now we have a company’s worth of officers of the law who had no problem with terrorizing innocent citizens, their spouses, and their children with SWAT raids in the early morning hours. These brave men too, were just doing their duty. America was exceptional because we had a system of government that placed laws about political power, at least in theory. That has been “deconstructed” with considerable success.
Not many heroes in this story outside of O’Keefe.
bobathome (ef0d3a) — 4/20/2015 @ 11:50 amDe Blasio 2016: Because Insanity!!!!!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 4/20/2015 @ 11:54 amLocal news story. Your media representatives have no need to inform you of the particulars of this case as it only concerns some yokels in a far off state.
Next up – the latest in the Jodi Arias saga!
Sincerely,
Your local news media
junior (79e744) — 4/20/2015 @ 12:05 pmOne of my considerations in this GOP nominating process is this: “Will this candidate use the DoJ to go after the lawlessness we’ve seen in the last 8 years?” This includes going after political criminals like Holder and thieves like Solyndra and however in the DoE who approved their non-recourse loans just before BK.
I also would like to see an investigation into the buying of journalists by political factions; some of this is too nasty to be explained by mere ideology.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 4/20/2015 @ 12:18 pm*whoever
Kevin M (25bbee) — 4/20/2015 @ 12:19 pmIt strikes me that we have in this case an example of a fundamental difference between Democrats and Republicans.
If Walker was a Democrat, and thus unconstrained by precedent or the law, he would have mobilized the National Guard and swooped down on these county prosecutors and their staffs with early morning raids on their residences and offices, and declared martial law in those five counties. I suppose there are all sorts of legal considerations, but this is probably a case where it is better to do it and ask forgiveness, than to ask pretty please beforehand. And if the National Guard isn’t available, I expect the Highway Patrol (or whatever they call it in Wisconsin) is probably up to the task.
It’s still not too late, and what joy it bring to my heart to see fifteen or twenty of these thugs frog-marched into jail.
Now that would make for an interesting Presidential campaign! Democrats across the country would be watching the polling numbers with great anxiety. They’d have a sledge hammer next to every computer, and the cases on their desktops would all be unscrewed to give quick access to the hard drives. And they would communicate with each other using code words and winks at the local Starbucks. The Colonel is right, this is made for a movie.
bobathome (ef0d3a) — 4/20/2015 @ 12:23 pmI think Cruz would be the more aggressive in attempting to depoliticize the DoJ (and other Departments/Agencies/Bureaus/etc).
askeptic (efcf22) — 4/20/2015 @ 12:35 pmToo bad they were not shot by the police for resisting arrest like that do to black people and 12 year old children.
12 year old child shot by police (9f5800) — 4/20/2015 @ 1:08 pmOh, we have another Perry posting…
Chuck Bartowski (11fb31) — 4/20/2015 @ 1:24 pmthe wife of the lead prosecutor, John Chisholm, was “a teachers’-union shop steward who was distraught over Act 10’s union reforms” — and Chisholm “felt it was his personal duty” to stop the reforms.
Here’s what I don’t get: Isn’t this sort of behavior ripe for ethics charges, and isn’t there some mechanism with the Wisconsin Bar Association to file these charges? I mean are we conservatives just going to sit around and bitch about this or are we going to go to the mat? If money is the issue then count me in for a few bucks. I donated to Walker and the other targeted conservatives during the recall, I donated to the pizza parlor in Indiana, and I’ll be happy to donate to someone who decides to go after this partisan prosecutor. But somebody has to set up and organize the campaign.
JVW (aa050c) — 4/20/2015 @ 1:35 pmthese people are only a wee small degree different from that drunk-ass loser hooch who charged Mr. governor perry with doing an illegal veto
happyfeet (a037ad) — 4/20/2015 @ 2:00 pmThey can always make you take the ride. Doesn’t matter if you win in court are not. They’ve already shot your dogs and just possibly burned your toddler’s face off, and they have immunity because they’re following orders.
Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 4/20/2015 @ 3:08 pm“…and they have immunity because they’re following orders.”
Somehow, I don’t think that defense carries much water anymore – or do we have to bring them up on charges in the ICC to slap that down?
askeptic (efcf22) — 4/20/2015 @ 3:19 pmIf there is a more divided electorate in these United States than WI I have no inkling of what it might be.
DNF (208255) — 4/20/2015 @ 3:48 pm@39 askeptic:I don’t think that defense carries much water anymore…
This grant of immunity is available to state or federal employees performing discretionary functions where their actions, even if later found to be unlawful, did not violate “clearly established law.” The defense of qualified immunity was created by the U.S. Supreme Court, replacing a court’s inquiry into a defendant’s subjective state of mind with an inquiry into the objective reasonableness of the contested action. A government agent’s liability in a federal civil rights lawsuit now no longer turns upon whether the defendant acted with “malice,” but on whether a hypothetical reasonable person in the defendant’s position would have known that his/her actions violated clearly established law.
Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 4/20/2015 @ 3:59 pmWell, the Court required that Dred Scott be returned to his “owner”, so we know how infallible the Nine Robed Wonders can be.
askeptic (efcf22) — 4/20/2015 @ 4:25 pmLeftists are nasty pieces of work. And what’s more, they’ve convinced themselves they’re entitled to be evil rat bastards because simply by being leftists they’re better people than those who deserve everything they’re going to get from the left.
I am reminded of Sloe Joe Biden deriding Mitt Romney’s “personal generosity” during the 2012 campaign. You see, it’s not enough that Romney gives millions of his own money in charity. Biden, the cheap bastard with his own money, is busy redistributing billions of other people’s money. That act of theft makes Biden a better, more “generous” person.
The people conducting these state-sponsored SWATtings don’t see themselves as bad. They have convinced themselves they’re performing a positive public service. Just like those IRS agents persecuting conservatives.
There is no limit to what they will do.
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/20/2015 @ 4:29 pmWe stopped being a banana republic long ago; the bananas have rotted into a democratic puddle of puss.
htom (4ca1fa) — 4/20/2015 @ 4:31 pmAnd, an Austrian painter was thoroughly convinced that he alone had the ability to lead the German People to the greatness they deserved (and he served on the Western Front).
askeptic (efcf22) — 4/20/2015 @ 4:32 pmSince the WI GOP controls the legislature, why don’t they just repeal these John Doe statutes, make the oversight meaningful, or provide statutory penalties for abuse, including prison time?
Kevin M (25bbee) — 4/20/2015 @ 5:35 pmEven better, a law that sets penalties for past actions, but only for officials who remain in office past a certain date. Sure it’s really ex post facto, but you can pretend you don’t know that and haul them up on charges if they don’t resign.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 4/20/2015 @ 5:38 pm↓
Crying Shame, but USA is a Corporatist, Yet Somehow Socialist at the Same Time, Ogliarchy (f9e702) — 4/20/2015 @ 6:08 pmThe American people gave Republicans historic control over State and Local governments in the mid-term elections. Why aren’t they giving the Democrats an example of bully boy Big Government with both barrels? We are at war over the fate of our country. We’d just be doing what Saul Alinsky advises. Let’s see how they like it.
Funeral Guy (2b0c22) — 4/20/2015 @ 6:21 pmHere’s why: Beyond Conservatism: Peter Brimelow’s Speech To The National Policy Institute. I challenge everyone to listen to it.
Crying Shame, but USA is a Corporatist, Yet Somehow Socialist at the Same Time, Ogliarchy (f9e702) — 4/20/2015 @ 6:31 pmCops need to start saying: Nope. Not doing that.
steveg (fed1c9) — 4/20/2015 @ 7:35 pmOtherwise it won’t stop.
The idea of fixing the problem from the top down sounds right, but the only way it stops is if the cops from the bottom up refuse to enforce “ze orders” over the constitution… they won’t rebel of course… their union bosses are in bed with the (D) people and so is all the pension money etc.
I have to give it to Team (D)… very clever way to have co-opted the “pigs”.
Interesting to see the cops sell out to Team (D) when it is clear from the OWS and Ferguson movements that Team (D) is the cops mortal enemy… so there must be money involved… or at least that is what the detectives would usually say
Except cops are self-selecting, as are IRS agents.
If you’ve read the emails, the IRS didn’t need to be told what to do. They just needed a green light. Because the IRS agents already were convinced that anyone who was apposed to their will to power could not be acting in the public interest. Hence they did not deserve 501(c)(3) status.
A rare exception to the bureaucratic mindset was the recent firing of an Air Force general who accused anyone who didn’t toe the party line on the A-10 of “treason.” That guy was fired, but in reality thousands of bureaucrats are getting away with enforcing their “treason” policies every day. And they don’t have to crack the whip too often as their hiring decisions mean pretty much everyone already agrees with them.
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/20/2015 @ 7:46 pmUPDATE: Thanks very much to Instapundit for the link — and make sure to check out his piece at USA Today: Wisconsin’s dirty prosecutors pull a Putin. Also, please remember to bookmark the blog and return!
Patterico (9c670f) — 4/20/2015 @ 7:59 pmsteveg,
You’re going on about wanting cops to protect you from tyranny?
ha ha ha ha. OK, I realize you’re not entirely serious. But ha ha ha ha Ha.
Gee.
Anyway, the problem is conservatives are gullible as rubes.
Crying Shame, but USA is a Corporatist, Yet Somehow Socialist at the Same Time, Ogliarchy (f9e702) — 4/20/2015 @ 8:01 pmShocking that this one has had multiple other aliases – Random, Former Conservative …
JD (3b5483) — 4/20/2015 @ 8:06 pmI admire the restraint – some places they’d remove the children for being subject to such trauma.
I mean, can conservative parents really raise happy healthy children?
scrubone (c3104f) — 4/20/2015 @ 8:18 pmAsk Christoph what an “ogliarchy” is.
Patterico (9c670f) — 4/20/2015 @ 8:31 pm“Cops need to start saying: Nope. Not doing that.”
Well, they have to enforce a legal warrant – but do they really need to bust the door in?
scrubone (c3104f) — 4/20/2015 @ 8:34 pmhttp://legalinsurrection.com/2008/11/is-it-time-for-conservatives-to-sit-down-in-the-snow/
Recently, Sharansky had something to say about the current situation.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/when-did-america-forget-that-its-america/2015/04/17/2bf6642e-e467-11e4-905f-cc896d379a32_story.html
Not everyone has forgotten.
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/20/2015 @ 8:50 pm== the bananas have rotted into a democratic puddle of puss.==
Aw, now I feel so bad for the poor kitties.
elissa (b0d0fd) — 4/20/2015 @ 9:26 pmthe thuggy thuggy union trash what did this are already on the ropes
thank you Mr. Governor Scott Walker
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL YOU DO
happyfeet (831175) — 4/21/2015 @ 3:51 amIt is necessary to BEEP all the officers who do this sort of thing.
Then it is necessary to similarly BEEP all the politicians and bureaucrats who had a hand in deciding and ordering this action.
They aren’t salvageable. They aren’t human beings. Anybody who might be prone to similar behavior needs a very very clear lesson warning them away from it.
“Treason doth never prosper, and what’s the reason? Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason.”
randompasserby (ba0619) — 4/21/2015 @ 4:26 am*Even if* their activity were illegal – I’m not saying it is, but I want to assume it is for the purpose of making a different point – even if it were illegal, serving a no-knock warrant in the middle of the night is *not* the way to search someone for evidence of that crime.
This kind of activity on the part of the police ought to be restricted to cases where there is good reason to believe it is absolutely necessary – places where there’s a real risk of destruction of evidence of a *serious* crime, or a real risk to the lives of officers.
In cases like this it is unjustified abuse.
The officials who approved it should be fired.
aphrael (50ee60) — 4/21/2015 @ 6:51 amSince we are no longer that countrty, it is time we pay back our enemies tenfold!
Michael Ejercito (d9a893) — 4/21/2015 @ 7:20 amOk I am going to sell out my own people. Gay clubs in DC & Miami have people snorting coke off of the bar counters but no one bothers to investigate them, if cops go in there undercover on a weekend they can’t miss it. I hear people say about how they could have lost their professional licenses when being gay was against the law but they snort coke like they don’t care. The drama queens want violence brought on their behalf but they cried when the San Francisco Gate published the demographics of crime against them. Blacks are only 5% of SF but commit the majority of crimes including bashings.
Steve (c5bdcd) — 4/21/2015 @ 7:51 amI doubt that snorting coke on bar counters is limited to the gay population; I suspect it’s common among the entire culture of moderately wealthy club patrons.
A friend of mine used to work at a restaurant whose chef was trying very hard to get a michelin star; he used to tell stories about people snorting lines off of *toilets* – which, to my mind, is just disgusting. I went to that place a bunch of times; it wasn’t that it attracted a *gay* clientele, it was that it attracted a *wealthy* clientele.
aphrael (50ee60) — 4/21/2015 @ 7:57 am> In a country that actually valued freedom
We’ve spent the better part of three decades, as a culture, becoming inured to this sort of thing. First the war on drugs, then the war on terror; we’ve been trained to accept that it’s OK for the state to do this, in the name of our own safety. How is it a surprise that once the public became accustomed to this sort of behavior, the state ended up abusing it?
aphrael (50ee60) — 4/21/2015 @ 7:59 amI used to post here quite a bit, and I always took flak for saying that the cops were out of control. Where were the “good cops” I keep hearing about during these raids? That’s right, the good cops were following unconstitutional orders and issuing threats. Or, did I miss the massive police protest (you know, like they do in New York)? Did I miss the story about Officer Whistleblower? Not even ONE cop did the right thing. Not one.
When the chips fall, they ARE big government. Jackholes in ties and cufflinks can write all the worthless words on paper they want; without men with guns willing to follow those orders, the words remain worthless.
ghost (525521) — 4/21/2015 @ 8:01 amHow does this get around Miranda? Is it because you’re not formally charged and arrested when the raids happen?
nyght (02833b) — 4/21/2015 @ 10:50 ameveryone needs to stop snorting all this coke I don’t care if you’re on a bar or a toilet this is not how we live
happyfeet (831175) — 4/21/2015 @ 10:53 amSo, John Chisholms wife was the instigating factor of these bogus investigations. Well I guess we know who wears the panties in that house.
scr_north (9f64ca) — 4/21/2015 @ 11:22 amWe have been taken over by commies and nobody fired a shot.
mg (31009b) — 4/21/2015 @ 12:42 pmpass the ritalin.
pass the bong
have an illegal
mow your lawn
foodstamps and ebt
is all the english
i need to speak
and now the men who
protect and serve
think they are the gestapoo
mg, I like the cut of your jib.
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/21/2015 @ 1:42 pmQualified immunity is not available when the prosecutors and police violate clearly established law, like this one, which was enacted in 1871:
42 U.S. Code 1983:
David (099e1f) — 4/21/2015 @ 1:51 pm“Every person who, under color of any statute, ordinance, regulation, custom, or usage, of any State or Territory or the District of Columbia, subjects, or causes to be subjected, any citizen of the United States or other person within the jurisdiction thereof to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured by the Constitution and laws, shall be liable to the party injured in an action at law, suit in equity, or other proper proceeding for redress, except that in any action brought against a judicial officer for an act or omission taken in such officer’s judicial capacity, injunctive relief shall not be granted unless a declaratory decree was violated or declaratory relief was unavailable.”
to their lights, the warrants came from a district atty, and approved by a judge, and their union steward, (nudge, nudge) probably had some influence,
narciso (ee1f88) — 4/21/2015 @ 1:57 pmNyght – what does Miranda have to do with anything?
Miranda governs the admissibility in evidence of statements made to the police. I don’t understand how it’s relevant or implicated here.
aphrael (50ee60) — 4/21/2015 @ 3:15 pmthis has nothing to do with the drug war, or the war on terror, it’s about proscribing a faction even when it is allied with those in power,
narciso (ee1f88) — 4/21/2015 @ 3:19 pmGo raibh maith agat, Steve57
mg (31009b) — 4/21/2015 @ 3:53 pmI have to side with aphrael to a certain extent. And against him to a certain extent. I’m likely one to the most by the book kind of guys you’re likely to run across. When I was in a position to I enforced the USCMJ by the book. The Berdahl trial will illustrate why that must be.
But outside the military I came to the conclusion that the gub’mint should have the hardest time in the world if it tried to take something from somebody.
I hardly became inured. In fact, due to close association, I became sensitized.
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/21/2015 @ 3:57 pmI hate my keyboard.
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/21/2015 @ 3:58 pmEnough with the Gaelic.
I’m sick of it.
And besides, the Irish/Italian debate is over. Italian food is better.
Why, that Uber driver from Little Italy who shot the gunman in Chicago dead might have been able to whip us a decent zabaglione.
OK, Irish, pony up.
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/21/2015 @ 4:06 pmI do have to credit the Irish with the Connemara pony., Fair is fair.
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/21/2015 @ 4:07 pmRoger up. Show of hands. Who is going out for Irish tonight.?
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/21/2015 @ 4:20 pmGreen beer isn’t really Irish food.
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/21/2015 @ 4:25 pmI guess the Guinness stew was the big winner.
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/21/2015 @ 4:37 pmhttp://www.burrensmokehouse.ie/burren-smoked-irish-salmon-1.html
mg (31009b) — 4/21/2015 @ 4:42 pmThe seafood throughout The Republic of Ireland is underrated. I love the how the chowders change from bay to bay.
O stand corrected, laddy.
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/21/2015 @ 4:52 pmOy
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/21/2015 @ 4:53 pmOy still like the cut of your jib, mg me lad.
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/21/2015 @ 4:59 pmdanke schon
mg (31009b) — 4/21/2015 @ 5:19 pmbitte
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/21/2015 @ 5:29 pm77.
kishnevi (adea75) — 4/21/2015 @ 6:20 pmThe Wars on Various Nouns created the apparatus that was/is being used here.
Steve57 – You can learn to speak with an Irish accent very easily. Just say the following four words in sequence quickly:
Whale
Oil
Beef
Hooked
Thank me later
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 4/21/2015 @ 6:38 pmNaw, oil beef thankin ya now udderwise I’d be whale and truly beef hooked.
Tanks to you, da daley!
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/21/2015 @ 6:51 pmBhuel beidh mé a damanta.
kishnevi (9c4b9c) — 4/21/2015 @ 7:02 pmThe police are entering a home, which means the forth amendment is invoked. Miranda is more of a fifth and sixth amendment thing that happens to occur during the arrest (and arrests are a fourth amendment thing).
Entering a house without a warrant is, at first glance, unlawful.
In the case of the Wisconsin searches, they did get warrants. Judge Kluka read Prosecutor Chisolm’s affidavits and signed a lot of warrants for him and other prosecutors. She signed them at an high pace, and according to a lot of folks, without sufficient evidence to show that a crime was probably happening (which is what the 4th amendment requires for a warrant). It’s here with the judge that the system breaks down. If judges let politics sway them, there’s not a lot to check them in time. If Kluka was rubber stamping meritless warrants, it should be the subject of Pulitzer winning investigative journalism. Every house in America should know her name.
Slightly off topic, but there are exceptions to the warrant requirement, such as if there is an emergency, but the cops need to limit their activities to what that emergency calls for, or get a warrant, under Mincey and Thompson v Louisiana. So that kind of attack wouldn’t work for a fishing expedition and would merely be terrorism. If the cops really do believe an emergency is probably taking place in a house, they have duties and usually must go check it out (in all practicality if not legally). These duties are usually greater in situations were family violence is in progress, and that’s exactly why a lot of the swatting hoaxes portray a man who is hurting his spouse. The bad guys think of ways to force your constitutional rights to be violated.
Bottom line: taking politics to this level is fascism, plain as day. Politics should be a means to a better society, and some flip that around to where society can be sacrificed for a little politics. It seems like this sort of thing is more common now.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 4/21/2015 @ 7:19 pmLess violent, but forcing divorce proceedings into the public eye to change an election result looks pretty similar,
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 4/21/2015 @ 7:42 pmand hey,
it worked and we got ourselves a president.
Good example, MD.
I couldn’t think of a good reply to aphrael’s comment. He says that society is inured to certain searches relating to terrorism and drugs, so that’s what’s being abused here. I really think the desensitization is actually with this dirtiness and ruthlessness in politics. We’re more intrigued than alarmed by it now. House of Cards is a thrilling show. Not only does that reward the absolute worst class of people, but it also keeps many better people, the ones who care about their families more than their own ambitions, from participating in politics.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 4/21/2015 @ 8:01 pmThe internenet is clearly an en evil that must be stamped out.
Without it I wouldn’t know I could sit down with doc for a cup of coffee, and know he’s not going to turn me into the feds for crimethink.
Steve57 (cd6f9a) — 4/21/2015 @ 8:06 pmWell actually it’s in keeping with the sedition act brought to us by the last academic turned chief executive, and other progressive boondoggles.
narciso (712fff) — 4/21/2015 @ 8:44 pmWalker is going to give Ted a run for his money.
mg (31009b) — 4/22/2015 @ 3:03 amhttp://www.frontpagemag.com/2015/dgreenfield/scott-walker-may-have-figured-out-immigration-populism/
So what has Gov Walker said about these break-ins ?
seeRpea (1427f4) — 4/22/2015 @ 8:54 amI have a tingle because 2 republicans seem conservative at one time.
mg (31009b) — 4/22/2015 @ 9:44 amweird but i like it.
he was precluded from speaking out by the same rules,
narciso (ee1f88) — 4/22/2015 @ 9:47 amI believe they call that projection. Again, I believe that much of this stems from the belief on the left that not only are they right, but anyone who doesn’t believe as they do must be evil. Evil people have no rights and must be punished. There can be no difference of opinion because the left’s opinion is right and opposing opinions are not just different, but evil.
You can see this in some people calling for not only muzzling contrary opinion, but also demanding the execution of those who have a contrary opinion. People calling for the death of global warming “deniers” is one example.
Not as bad as this, but I know the helplessness of facing a government agency not following the law that made my life miserable for 2 and a half years. This happened when a previous employer garnished my wages and did not pay my ex wife’s alimony. Even though I was the primary custodial parent and had proof that the money had been garnished from my paychecks, according to CPS I was guilty and had to pay them the money that had been stolen by my employer including fines and 10% interest! It doesn’t seem fair, does it?
They illegally without the presiding judge’s approval changed the venue from the judge in San Fernando to a commissioner in the city of commerce who rubber stamped their requests without notification, denying me due process and my right to defend myself and face my accusers in court. In 8 audits they only got the number right once. One time they said that I owed over $53,000 and labeled me, the primary custodial parent, a deadbeat dad. That doesn’t even make sense. How can the primary custodial parent be a deadbeat dad? Even after I had overpaid by over $2,300, they still insisted that I owed $6,787. I finally got it transferred back to the female judge in San Fernando and because I couldn’t afford a lawyer, I defended myself (in pro per) and won in court and my ex had to pay me back the $2,300, but CPS in a petty move put a zero dollar lien on my home to prevent me from refinancing or selling my home. I still think it was wrong for CPS to force me to pay the money my employer had stolen as well as their thuggish behavior.
My ex let our 3 year old wander onto a busy street twice. He was saved by one of her neighbors who subsequently called CPS. They found that she wasn’t feeding the kids, the 5th grader was fixing meals, the children weren’t being cleaned, had no supervision, and that the house was worse than a pig pen. Instead of taking her custodial time away from her they were constantly on my case for things like taking my oldest so off Ritalin when 2 doctors, 2 psychologists, and one psychiatrist told me to take him off Ritalin. I was being punished for doing the right thing!
I fear the government. They are out of control. I’m afraid they’ll take my home and put me in servitude to them more than I am. The county just legally raised the property tax of the home I’ve been living in for 10 years by 800% putting a severe dent in my retirement plans. In 2005 I spent over $275,000 repairing termite damage, replacing the windows, adding insulation, and repairing the house. It turns out that when a daughter in law remarries, she is no longer the child of the mother in law and when she gives it to her when she dies, despite proposition 58, the property changes ownership and is reaccessed. This despite that we paid for her to be in a very nice home (where her son put her before he died), paid for extras, paid for her funeral, and overpaid the mortgage to bring down the principle. So the government has raised our property taxes which impacts our finances and ability to retire. In my opinion, they are thieves. This is proved by the Supreme Court’s Kelo decision. They must be thieves.
My experiences have helped me to understand the wisdom of our founders push for limited government. When government becomes too big it is no longer the government for the people, but people are subjects to the government. If you are a subject of the government, you have no rights.
Sorry for the long comment. Thanks for letting me vent.
Tanny O'Haley (c674c7) — 4/22/2015 @ 11:55 amJudge Kluka needs to be impeached if that is possible. Chisholm needs to be disbarred. They should suffer all legal penalties possible
OmegaPaladin (d9cb70) — 4/23/2015 @ 7:05 pm