Patterico's Pontifications

7/16/2013

Rachel Jeantel Tells Piers Morgan “Creepy Ass Cracka” Does Not Refer to a White Person, Morgan “Forgets” Her Courtroom Testimony to the Contrary

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:49 am



Rachel Jeantel talking to Piers Morgan:

RACHEL JEANTEL, FRIEND OF TRAYVON: Well, the jury, they see their facts. My thoughts of the jury, they old, that’s old school people. We in a new school, our generation, my generation. So —

PIERS MORGAN: Let’s talk about ‘creepy ass cracka.’ People have said that that is a phrase used by black people, cracka, to describe a white person. Is that true?

JEANTEL: No! Like I said —

MORGAN: How do you spell it, first of all?

JEANTEL: Cracka.

MORGAN: There’s no ‘e-r,’ right?

JEANTEL: No, it’s an ‘a’ at the end.

MORGAN: C-r-a-c-k-a.

JEANTEL: Yeah. And that’s a person who act like they’re a police [officer], who, like a security guard who acting like — that’s what I said to them. Trayvon said creepy ass cracka.

MORGAN: It means he thought it was a police or a security guard?

JEANTEL: Yeah, he acting like the police. And then he keep telling me that the man is still watching him. So, if it was a security guard or a policeman, they would come up to Trayvon and say, ‘Do you have a problem? Do you need help?’ You know, like normal people.

Naturally, Piers the Professional Journalist confronted her with her courtroom testimony where she said “cracker” meant a pervert who is white. From courtroom testimony:

PROSECUTOR: Is that to mean, you mean like a white individual?

JEANTEL: Yes, Caucasian.

That’s from 1:19 in this video:

She’s a liar. But then, we already knew that, as she admitted lying several times in her testimony.

This is the type of witness the prosecution used to try to convict Zimmerman. This is the type of witness upon whose word Ursula from the Little Mermaid bases her opinion that George Zimmerman is still, despite the acquittal, a “murderer”.

WHO’S READY TO BREAK SOME HEADS AND STEAL STUFF?

162 Responses to “Rachel Jeantel Tells Piers Morgan “Creepy Ass Cracka” Does Not Refer to a White Person, Morgan “Forgets” Her Courtroom Testimony to the Contrary”

  1. Say hi to Ms. Corey:

    Screen Shot 2013-07-16 at 7.51.04 AM

    Patterico (9c670f)

  2. He was acting like a policeman? That’s terrible!

    Sir Robert Peel’s Seventh Principle:

    Police, at all times, should maintain a relationship with the public that gives reality to the historic tradition that the police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full-time attention to duties which are incumbent upon every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence.

    emphasis added.

    SPQR (768505)

  3. what Piers Morgan did feels exploitative to me

    he’s a very nasty and british person I think

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  4. And at this point it is exceedingly important that she tell a new lie in order to cover her previous lie.

    Icy (45fe76)

  5. I don’t understand the reference to the Sea Witch.

    aunursa (7014a8)

  6. Cracka has a spelling? You drop the “R” and change the “E” to an a, like “gangsta”

    What, is that on record labels?

    Maybe text messages?

    If “cracka”,in her slang, means someone acting like a security guard, why did she suggest he might be wanting to rape Trayvon (which was her testimony.)

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  7. I understand the reference to the Sea Witch it cause of how Angela Corey be fat fascist nasty and ugly to beat the band

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  8. Ms. Jeantel is an object of pity for her obvious limitations;

    Piers Morgan is an object of contempt for a variety of reasons.

    Comanche Voter (f4c7d5)

  9. I think the word you are looking for is git, pikachu, the Top Gear guy has has some choice words for Piers,

    narciso (3fec35)

  10. When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Through_the_Looking-Glass

    BfC (a1cf00)

  11. Piers Morgan long ago earned several horsewhippings which have sadly been delayed.

    SPQR (768505)

  12. thanks!

    Angela Corey needs to git on wif her ugly ass self

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  13. Did you see the prosecutors on Vinnie Politan’s “After Dark” show Monday night?

    DN (09d6b1)

  14. Piers Morgan is the kind of sissy other boys would take his ball and not let him play. Men instantly regard him as insignificant, same with women, they find him soft, weak kneed, smarmy, and a little bit creepy. Morgan went into journalism, instead of interior decorating, to keep from being ignored, so people would have to pay attention when he talked. Otherwise, he’s just another potted plant. Without the British accent, he’d be lucky to get a job in landscape gardening.

    ropelight (e74c7d)

  15. A google search for cracka security guard switches you to: crack a security guard.

    The common definition of cracka does not mean security guard.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cracka

    http://www.internetslang.com/CRACKA-meaning-definition.asp‎

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracker_(pejorative)

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  16. It was nice of Morgan’s parents to name him “Piers”, seeing as he’s turned out too low to have any actual peers.

    Rob Crawford (c55962)

  17. Oh well, I never really liked The Who anyway.

    nk (875f57)

  18. Listening to the guy in a snooty foreign accent trying to interview a girl with little ability to either understand or express herself in the English language reminds me of the day I was in the local cleaners and watched the heavily accented and English-challenged Korean owner try to conduct business with the heavily accented and English-challenged elderly Russian guy about starch and repairs to his shirts.

    elissa (96b70e)

  19. You have to understand one thing: Rachel Jeantel’s probably making it all up anyway when she speaks about the conversation Tayvon MArtin had that night.

    There are actually real problems for Rachel Jeantel about that phrase “creepy ass cracker” (or cracka)

    Creepy ass cracka, depending on how you puntuate or pronounce it, could mean an annoying or disturbing white person, or it could mean a gay man who was “cruising”

    According to her own testimony, Rachel Jeantel took it as the latter!

    If the latter, he would not necessarily be white.

    On the website

    http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/06/30/cracka-considerations/

    “kathyca” said:

    Don West had a long line of questions designed to establish there was no way Rachel could have believed George was white OTHER than that slur. I don’t know if he did it deliberately to rule out any alternative meaning or not, but he did it.

    Based on the story told by “Marie” there, cracka might possibly also carry the connotation of a person who acts like he (or she, if you add the word bitch) is in a position of authority over the person using that word, so there might be a little bit of truth to Rachel Jeantel’s new claim, although Marie she thinks it’s just a racial epithet.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  20. So, if Martin thought GZ was a police officer or security guard (possibly armed), it made perfect sense for him to confront said individual and assault him, breaking his nose.

    Ms. Jeantel’s intellect exceeds only that of Piers Morgan; several percentage points below abysmal.

    navyvet (02dd07)

  21. Cracker comes from cracking a bullwhip and I imagine early Floridians used them on more than cattle, so you may be right Sammy.

    nk (875f57)

  22. I wonder what’s actually wrong with her.

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  23. That should be he wouldn’t be white with the word “cracker” Creepy ass might have a meaning or might mean nothing particular.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  24. nuthin’ from nuthin’
    piers morgan 3 kippers short
    of teh Crown Fish Meal

    Colonel Haiku (0ccd7a)

  25. elissa wrote:

    Listening to the guy in a snooty foreign accent trying to interview a girl with little ability to either understand or express herself in the English language

    It appears that Mr Morgan speaks in cursive.

    The Dana with terrible penmanship, but who can still read cursive (3e4784)

  26. If the century after the Civil War, average rural uneducated whites acted like they were in a position of authority over blacks (probably more in Georgia than Florida, except maybe for the Florida panhandle) then even if the word “cracker” just referred to background, it could carry with it that extra connotation, not being used on any white person except somebody who was acting, or they wanted to say they were acting, in some way, like a bully.

    The alternative to whips is that crakcer has to do with cracked corn.

    As far as baseball teams were concerned, the word came from the idea of cracking a bat, or it got that meaning.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  27. The interesting question is whether Martin was calling Zimmerman a “creepy-ass cracker” or a “creepy ass-cracker”. That is, was he calling him a white guy or a homosexual pervert on the prowl.

    Anon Y. Mous (8ec442)

  28. If we are to believe the lovely Miss Jeantel in her appearance with Mr Morgan, but she said something different, while under oath, in an attempt to send George Zimmerman to prison, would that not be evidence of perjury during her sworn testimony?

    The Dana who isn't an attorney (3e4784)

  29. No just jibberish, that’s why they call him ‘Musket Morgan’

    narciso (3fec35)

  30. Not that charging her with perjury really matters. I suspect that she will have further contact with the law enforcement system as well as the welfare program over the course of the next couple of decades.

    The prescient Dana (3e4784)

  31. It’s almost as if Piers didn’t actually watch her testimony and is merely relying on the talking points he swiped from Sharptons nightstand…

    Ghost (996b5a)

  32. 27. Comment by Anon Y. Mous (8ec442) — 7/16/2013 @ 8:46 am

    The interesting question is whether Martin was calling Zimmerman a “creepy-ass cracker” or a “creepy ass-cracker”. That is, was he calling him a white guy or a homosexual pervert on the prowl.

    I was thinking that, but then I realized the word “cracker” would anyway have to make him white. (GZ switched races, shortly, though, if the word she said TM used was to be taken literally. But she indicated not so.)

    I have strong doubts she was even the person talking on the telephone with him.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  33. Part of the problem is that the attempt to create a racial slur that would offend whites as much as nigger offends blacks has been a failure. Honkey was the most obvious attempt, but it didn’t have any history behind it, and it became a laugh line before it could ever become offensive.

    Alas! Had we just been complaisant enough to have accepted the term as the originators wished, it would have saved Mr Martin and Miss Jeantel the difficulty of coming up with the word they would have preferred to use.

    The linguist Dana (3e4784)

  34. Later, Rachel Jeantel said TM referred to GZ as a “nig?a.”

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  35. I suppose she discussed this new meaning of cracka when testifying, or when she was harkening back to the cowboy roots of native Floridians. At least now she has cleared up the fact that she was not referring to the rough and tumble cowboy history of Florida when she said cracka.

    JD (b63a52)

  36. Apparently, she told P.Morgan that N(er) is something that a non-black should avoid calling a black.

    N(a) is a generic term for adult male of any race (I think–I am not even going to look this up–see my previous “When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”).

    It ain’t worth the electrons to discuss.

    BfC (a1cf00)

  37. Most, if not all, of that conversation between Rachel Jeantel and Trayvon Martin is probably made up, but not all the details were made up at the same time.

    At the start, they didn’t have the times and recordings of the Zimmerman call to the police and the 911 calls to work with.

    I suspect there is a big problem with the timing of the last call on the TM phone. There might be some obvious fraud here. What was said in the trial by Raymond MacDonald, the T-Mobile manager?

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  38. I’m “angry” about all this. Plus, I need a new TV.

    Patricia (be0117)

  39. It would be interesting to have had a recording of that call.

    I’m pretty sure that nothing about her testimony or recitation on that scumbag’s TV program are at all accurate.

    SPQR (768505)

  40. Comment by SPQR (768505) — 7/16/2013 @ 9:09 am

    Sorry to be a broken record over a call,
    but this is what the NSA is for…

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  41. I was interested in this exchange as well. I’ve removed the audience laughs which broke up Morgan’s initial question.

    Morgan: Don West gave you a very hard time as defense attorney.

    Jeantel: Don West…Don West…

    Morgan: What is your view of him?

    Jeantel: All I have to say is he lucky I’m a Christian

    If Zimmerman said this about Corey, wouldn’t it be interpreted as a threat?

    On another note, Morgan is the worst. Apparently he approves of Jeantel’s courtroom demeanor. He also spun the juror’s words to be that Jeantel was “uneducated, with no communication skills.” Not true. That wasn’t what the juror said.

    ratbeach (f5aad4)

  42. I should add: Urban Dictionary makes it pretty clear that “cracka” or “cracker” is a word used to describe white people. But, I don’t need UD to know this. I’ve volunteered with at risk youth and have heard the term used to describe white people (it’s used as the counterpart to the n word). To say it means a person who “acts” like a police officer is Jeantel’s way of trying to validate the prosecution’s portrayal of Zimmerman as a wannabe cop.

    ratbeach (f5aad4)

  43. Oh well, I never really liked The Who anyway.
    Comment by nk (875f57) — 7/16/2013 @ 8:25 am

    — Not even their new album? “Music To F*ck Goats And Epilady Your Lady By”

    Icy (45fe76)

  44. Well, there is this old snack treat called “cracker jack”, so there must have been some positive connotations with it.
    From Wikipedia:
    In 1896, the first lot of Cracker Jack was produced. It was named by an enthusiastic sampler who remarked, “That’s crackerjack!” (a colloquialism meaning “of excellent quality”[2]).

    So, whether there were cowboys in Florida who cracked whips or people in Chicago giving a compliment, I think it’s all beside the point.
    My local sources say that if you are walking down the street and someone you don’t know says, “Hey cracker!” that it is not generally meant as a compliment or saying that you look like a security guard.

    Please, let this young lady return to her private life.

    MD in Philly (f9371b)

  45. aunursa,

    I think it’s because Corey likes red lipstick, although there may be other similarities.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  46. #34, Dana, honkey has historical roots, recent ones to be sure, but real ones nevertheless.

    When white guys drove up in front of their black girlfriend’s house, instead of going inside, they honked the horn. The girl as well as the neighbors could hear the horn and neighbors not knowing the driver’s name identified them as the white boy who honks his car horn: a honkey.

    ropelight (e74c7d)

  47. http://globalgrind.com/news/angela-corey-state-attorney-doesnt-need-grand-jury-trayvon-martin-case-details

    The story is old, but the picture is 100% Ursula, tentacles and all.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  48. Which one of these two water buffalos outweighs the other?

    Silly Songs With Larry
    The Water Buffalo Song
    From Episode 1–Where’s God When I’m S-Scared?

    “Everybody’s got a water buffalo, yours is fast but mine is slow.
    Oh where’d we get them? I don’t know, but everybody’s got a water
    buffalo-ooooooooo.
    I took my buffalo to the store, got his head stuck in the door, spilled
    some lima beans on the floor. Oh everybody’s got a …”

    “Stop it, stop, stop right this instant! What do you think
    you’re doing? You can’t say everyone’s got a water buffalo when everyone
    does not have a water buffalo! We’re going to get nasty letters saying,
    “Where’s my water buffalo? Why don’t I have a water buffalo?” And are
    you prepared to deal with that? I don’t think so! Just stop being so
    silly!”

    (This is a Silly Song from Larry, available as a ringtone for your cellphone.)

    ropelight (e74c7d)

  49. Those eyes would have melted steel when she was young, though.

    nk the Mediterranean (875f57)

  50. Piers Morgan interviewed this woman with kid gloves. he could be interviewing his Queen. By contract he treated Robert Zimmerman with utter contempt. Witness yet again the liberal elite indugling the underclass, while treating a middle class guy with hostility. What’s really condescending and RAYCESS is he cannot stop for even a moment to honestly deal with Ms. Jeantel and her obvious pathologies, which are in so many ways everything that’s wrong with the underclass.

    Bugg (ba4ca9)

  51. Jeantel looks as if she loiters at a Waffle House.

    mg (31009b)

  52. I think Ms. Jeantel would be PERFECT for The View, don’t you? Imagine listening to BaBa WaWa and Rachel…yes, an sign interpreter would be needed.

    mcnorman (dbaa44)

  53. “Creepy ass…”? That’s ironic, look who’s talking! If Rachel Jeantel wants to see “creepy ass” all she has to do is look in the mirror!

    Althor (b81d49)

  54. the Mediterranean nk wrote:

    Those eyes would have melted steel when she was young, though.

    According to Mediterranean legend, Perseus took care of that problem some time ago.

    The classicist Dana (3e4784)

  55. I thought Rachel said “colts.”

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  56. West and O’Mara were on Hannity last night and the question of the term “crazy assed cracka” came up.

    O’Mara replied that while it may have racial overtones to it, their case did not rest upon the term being racial. He continued to say that when he was 17, he said a lot of things that looking back now, were stupid and insensitive.

    I thought that comment shows how the defense, Zimmerman and his family continue to try to be conciliatory when they don’t have to. At the same time, the prosecution and the media still tries to widen the divide instead of working to close it and heal people.

    gitarcarver (71ca11)

  57. C’mon guys, give “Medusa Jeantel” a break! At least she didn’t splurt out her most used adjective – “f*ck” – during the proceedings…. 😛

    Althor (b81d49)

  58. Part of the problem is that the attempt to create a racial slur that would offend whites…

    In a culture that tends to take offered insults and embrace them. See “Yankee” and “Geek”.

    Rob Crawford (c55962)

  59. When white guys drove up in front of their black girlfriend’s house, instead of going inside, they honked the horn. The girl as well as the neighbors could hear the horn and neighbors not knowing the driver’s name identified them as the white boy who honks his car horn: a honkey.

    Ever see the cartoon “Duckman”?

    Rob Crawford (c55962)

  60. If Rachel Jeantel were on The Grapevine, she’d get run over in the SLOW TRUCK lane.

    …and that’s the fact, Jack!

    askeptic (b8ab92)

  61. I listened some more to the beginning of Rachel Jeantel’s testimony.

    In the courtroom, there must have been something set up wrong with the microphone, to blur the sound, at the time when Rachel Jeantel was testifying.

    The unclarity we (and the people in the courtroom too) heard is not something a human being can produce. It sounds like what you get with a a bad recording.

    She speaks softly, she has an accent, but it is the sound itself that in unclear.

    I assumed at first this was just bad modulation when broadcast, but that was clearly going on in the courtroom. They have the same trouble. And that is strange.

    I think somebody did something there to make her testimony harder to comprehend.

    I’d like to know more if any special arrangements were made or any technician worked on the set-up before her testimony.

    There’s some extra noise added I think…like an overlay of sound. Underneath, her voice is pretty clear, but it is hard to make out.

    Maybe they wanted only for the people watching on television, but it affected the people in the courtroom as well.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  62. * Maybe they wanted only the people watching on television not to hear distinctly what she said.

    Sammy Finkelman (f2d620)

  63. You have got to be kidding me.

    JD (b63a52)

  64. It was a conspiracy.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  65. I think somebody did something there to make her testimony harder to comprehend.
    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (f2d620) — 7/16/2013 @ 12:05 pm

    Are you accusing somebody of dropping Rachel on her head? That’s in very poor taste.

    Birdbath (716828)

  66. haven’t heard anything about Jeantel having social media accounts, but does it not seem likely that she would have had some – did the defense ever get to review them? Did they even get to check her phone? I had heard at one time it was a “group” phone.

    The talking to Crump thing – “I was in a closet” is strange. Was this a small interview room or was this actually a storage closet or closet in her home?

    Sarahw (b0e533)

  67. With the case over and all kinds of people speculating all kinds of things we’ll never prove, I wonder if Martin explicitly told Jeantel that he was going to attack Zimmerman.
    If the phrase was “creepy-ass cracka”, it was racist. If it was “creepy ass-cracka”, it was homophobic. Or so it sounds to me.

    MT Geoff (a67ef4)

  68. LOLOLOLO–popo or security guard?!– To quote a sista': necco please./cheshire grin

    ignatius (2e0105)

  69. Also, all NCIS-ish, I can see McGee and Ziva finding the cell phone several feet away on a bench or a bush. They look quizzically at each other, then McGee says, “It’s set to video.” They discover the clip of Martin attacking Zimmerman because Martin wanted the souvenir.
    Okay, the first one is plausible, the second one is…an outlier. What would it mean if it were true, though?

    MT Geoff (a67ef4)

  70. You have got to be kidding me.

    It HAS to be brain damage, I’m telling you.

    Rob Crawford (c55962)

  71. 40. 41. I don’t think the NSA has any kind of record that the phone companies do not (except for a very minute number of calls to overseas they listen to)

    They decided to collect every record of every call made because the phone companies might not keep all their records they made and because they might delay turning things over.

    It would probably take an Act of Congress to look into any of these records.

    In this case maybe there is something. Possibly a better record of the timing of some calls.

    Almost no calls are recorded by anyone, except for calls involving the police – and that’s what this case has.

    Benjamin Crump illegally taped Rachel Jeantel (but that was illegal under Florida law)

    But she exonerated him, claiming that she knew it was being recorded but just didn’t know it was also being heard by ABC.

    Sammy Finkelman (067111)

  72. haven’t heard anything about Jeantel having social media accounts, but does it not seem likely that she would have had some

    The folks over at the Conservative Treehouse would know. And have complete archives.

    Rob Crawford (c55962)

  73. Maybe she did know it was being recorded. Earlier calls probably were not, but now she was ready.

    Sammy Finkelman (067111)

  74. Oh for the love of…!

    As a Floridian, I am completely aware of the origins of the term “Cracker” and I assure you that whatever its original derivation with regard to cattle management, for modern-day black folks the term “Cracka” brings to mind a white dude with a whip in his hand, throwing down on a bunch of black slaves. An overseer.

    The germ if the idea that Cracka means “police or security guard” is that she really is saying that a Cracka is a white authority figure, somebody who is always busting down on black folks who are just trying to get along and have a good time.

    Also, the “-ass” suffix is a common enough intensifier in slang. “Creepy-ass”, “skinny-ass”, “lying-ass”…do we really need to parse this and stroke our beards and wonder if what was truly meant was “ass-cracker”?

    The scholarly discussions of this are really starting to annoy me.

    Pious Agnostic (c45233)

  75. 68. Comment by Sarahw (b0e533) — 7/16/2013 @ 12:12 pm

    I had heard at one time it was a “group” phone.

    Milhouse said soemthing like that.

    When I hear something like that that means to me we have some verification that it may even be likely she wasn’t the person speaking to him.

    Did we get any kind of explanation as to why she was talking to him that day?

    The talking to Crump thing – “I was in a closet” is strange. Was this a small interview room or was this actually a storage closet or closet in her home?

    An explanation would be that she didn’t want to be overheard by anyone else in her home. But why?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  76. “He may be a gay rapist” cause they go after children, apparently … when will this “child” meme go away?

    quasimodo (6d3411)

  77. SF: “I think somebody did something there to make her testimony harder to comprehend.”

    Comment by Birdbath (716828) — 7/16/2013 @ 12:12 pm

    Are you accusing somebody of dropping Rachel on her head? That’s in very poor taste.

    It’s like somebody put a piece of paper in the front of her microphone. Or tampered with the audio feed in some other way. She sounds much clearer talking to Piers Morgan.

    I am figuring the idea was that the audience outside wouldn’t hear, so they couldn’t analyze her testimony, but this also affected the people in the room, which caused the lawyers to ask her to repeat what she said, spoiling the whole idea.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  78. I think maybe they used a noise cancelling microphone, and something was not set up correctly, probably on purpose.. Her testimony was muffled – maybe something like what can happen on a Skype call.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  79. Don’t let it get to ya, Pious. You got your hyphen in the right place. As a true cornbread and grits eatin’ Son of the South, I can attest to the proper construction (we’re dealing in the vernacular here): creepy-ass cracker.

    Now, Rachel Jeantel may well have imagined TraMar encountered a homosexual rapist, but that would have come from the depths of her own psyche and not from TraMar’s description of his nemesis. If TraMar described GZ at all, and we have only Jeantel’s questionable recollection to go on, he was describing a white guy, or rendered in black urban street patois a cracker. He might just as well have used honkey, or even honkey-ass cracka instead.

    His actual word or phrase really doesn’t alter the fact TraMar, according to Jeanteal, used a racial epithet to describe GZ. It was TraMar who injected race into the confrontation. Which is something GZ didn’t do and yet has been repeatedly accused of doing without the slightest shred of evidence, in fact all the evidence indicates that GZ was anything but a racist, after months of investigation the FBI had to admit they could find nothing to support such a contention.

    ropelight (e74c7d)

  80. 65. Comment by JD (b63a52) — 7/16/2013 @ 12:08 pm

    You have got to be kidding me.

    66. Comment by daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 7/16/2013 @ 12:10 pm

    It was a conspiracy.

    You don’t think there was a conspiracy going on here to mislead the public, and maybe win the case?

    The police chief of Sanford got fired.

    A special prosecutor got named, who charged Murder 2 that only made sense according to the myth progagated by Benjamin Crump.

    Evidence was withheld, released against orders, and then the person who released it fired, but only after the case was over.

    After the verdict, demonstrations all over the country.

    Why couldn’t someone have tried to arrange to have Rachel Jeantel’s testimony not to be heard clearly? They knew there were potential problems with it. This would allow the record to be corrected later or maybe someone to argue over what words she said.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  81. Don’t worry, ropelight, though the FBI didn’t find evidence to support that contention, the Obama Administration will soon have their top men on the job.

    Top.

    Men.

    Pious Agnostic (20c167)

  82. Comment by ropelight (e74c7d) — 7/16/2013 @ 1:26 pm

    Now, Rachel Jeantel may well have imagined TraMar encountered a homosexual rapist, but that would have come from the depths of her own psyche and not from TraMar’s description of his nemesis

    It’s the kind of thing that would justify or explain Trayvon Martin attacking George Zimmerman.

    Of course that didn’t really help Benjamin Crump.

    He didn’t really need a sensible, more or less decent, motive for Trayvon Martin to attack George Zimmerman, a motive different from the truth that perhaps, protected Trayvon Martin’s his secret life that both he and Rachel Jeantel knew about.

    He needed Travon Martin not to have started the fight!!!

    Anyway, according to Rachel Jeantel Trayvon Martin rejected that interpretation, telling her that she was playing with him.

    That may have remained in her story because she had already put it there on record. The story probably developed somewhat over time, with the lawyers not actually telling her what to say but indicating what kind of story they liked.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  83. So, she is saying that Trayvon thought that Zimmerman was a police officer? That Trayvon ASSAULTED someone he thought was a police officer? Can you say, FELONY?

    Cheryl Rosa (79f0cd)

  84. Love the political cartoon in today’s Augusta (GA) Chronicle. It shows a TV anchorman sitting at the news desk. Behind him is an image of Zimmerman with a rope around his neck. The caption reads:

    “We interrupt our execution of George Zimmerman for this breaking news: he has been found not guilty. Now, back to our program, already in progress …”

    Whitey Zimmerman (aa99c0)

  85. It’s the kind of thing that would justify or explain Trayvon Martin attacking George Zimmerman.

    I think the theory that Martin thought Zimmerman was a gang member, of a rival gang, is much more plausible. Actually, I think the theory that Martin believed he was being followed by an extraterrestrial out to kidnap him and take him away in a flying saucer would be the most plausible of them all.

    Mark (98b17a)

  86. That is my favorite Mark comment ever. Hands down.

    Stashiu3 (e7ebd8)

  87. So, now our honor student Trayvon Martin was really just gay-bashing an allegedly gay police officer ?
    Ok, so that does this finally eliminate any notion that the confrontation had anything to do with race, you rabblerousers, race-baiters, and a**hole lefties ?

    Good Allah.

    Elephant Stone (6a6f37)

  88. Hey, if she’s comfortable slandering people on national TV, who am I to interfere?

    mojo (0583bf)

  89. I think we can pretty much disregard anything Ms. Jeantel has to say about this matter. If she lied so outrageously under oath, there’s little likelihood she’s telling the truth now that she’s being paid.

    Pious Agnostic (20c167)

  90. lying liars lie: i see a great future for this bimbo in politics.

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  91. sick to my stomach
    ate green flecked Velveeta on a
    creepy ass cracka

    Colonel Haiku (1011ad)

  92. So if cracka is police or security then would it not reason Trayvon knew George was a racist hmo child rapist with a revolver?

    Or is this animalito just making shit up?

    Creepy Ass Cracka (fadd7a)

  93. I honestly didn’t think things could get any more ridiculous. #Wrong

    Amalgamated Cliff Divers, Local 157 (f7d5ba)

  94. #94 if Sammy and Perry are commenting, you can never think it won’t get more ridiculous :)

    Lord Nazh (589297)

  95. are you sure those weren’t green flecked lead paint chips Mr. Colonel?

    I’m getting the feeling we still haven’t gotten the message out about those

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  96. Could be lead, feets… I let my wife talk me into buying her a new Mercedes Benz E350 BlueTec

    Colonel Haiku (fb49f6)

  97. dammit I knew I shoulda studied more harder in haiku class

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  98. Space is limited
    In a haiku, so it’s hard
    To finish what you

    nk (875f57)

  99. If there is one good thing-on a personal level-from the Zimmerman trial..it is that I learned from all the commenters and FB posts that I am a racist. Now that I know-I can hopefully start doing something about it.

    Pamela (17a6bb)

  100. 68. Sarahw @ Rachel Jeantel and social media:

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/twitter/rachel-jeantel-758403

    6/26 UPDATE: Dozens of incriminating posts were deleted last night from the Twitter account of Rachel Jeantel, a female acquaintance of Trayvon Martin. The 19-year-old woman began testifying this afternoon in the George Zimmerman murder trial.

    When she testified was actually the first time anyone heard her last name – that’s probably why it wasn’t deleted before.

    The Library of Congress has all her tweets – you don’t need the NSA – but I think it would be very, very hard to get them.

    She claimed that (originally, till when?) even the Martin family only knew her as “Diamond” and she also went by “Dee Dee”

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  101. The handle was “MsRachel_94″ but her name there was “Ms. Rachel Jeantel” and her photo was “Ms. Diamond”.

    One proof that this is the witness’ Twitter account is that in June, she tweeted a couple of references to having to go to court.

    She was also on Facebook. On the Sunday before she testified, Rachel Jeantel uploaded a photo showing an empty bottle of Hennessy cognac, along with the caption, “Last drink for the week long ass week too.” Her profle said she attended Miami Norland Senior High School and has “studied criminal justice at Miami University.” For work, she said “My mama n daddy do all the work I just spend it.”

    On Sunday Feb 24, 2013 she tweeted: “In church wit friends n im jus think bout last year sunday wow I should have been in church the whole day and night omg made lord be with me.”

    That would sound like maybe she did spend all day on the phone with Trayvon Martin.

    The Smoking Gun gave another tweet from that day: “they black ass laugh bout last year…they ass goin to hell for laugh bout that shit.” Sounds like some blacks were callous about that, or something.

    The claim she was in the hospital was under oath, not (just, if at all) to Trayvon Martin’s family. See here on the smoking gun page:

    Earlier this year, government lawyers had to acknowledge that Jeantel lied under oath when she claimed that the reason she did not attend Martin’s funeral was due to a hospitalization.

    She also tweeted some tweets that could refer to that.

    On March 5, when Jeantel’s lie was disclosed during a court hearing, the teenager made a pair of Twitter posts apparently referring to the revelation. “Jus got home n hear wat was going and I’m angry,” she wrote. In her next tweet, Jeantel–who uses the handle “@MsRachel_94″–wrote “remember who cause the funeral to happen keep it 100% Mr. ass hoe.” She added, “damn they p*ssed me off… and I’m sick too “HELL NAW

    I don’t understand that, really.

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  102. Some quoted bad language may have caused the previous post to go into the spam filetr.

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  103. Maybe she meant she should have been in church the whole day and night on the sunday nearest the anniversary.

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  104. All of rachel Jeantel’s testimony http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdzrBw-x8Xc7

    Her account of the confrontation is at 20:45 to about 22:19 minutes. Really you can maybe go from about 16 1/2 to 22 minutes.

    She said Trayvon said he was almost home – in the back of his “Daddy’s fiance’s house” She also said the area.

    She said that Trayvon said “Oh, sh?t” “that nigg* is behind me”

    She says she said “Trayvon” and Trayvon said to the man “why are you following me”

    Then she heard a “hard breathing” man saying “Whatcha doing around here”

    And then she heard a bump of the Trayvon headset) and then she heard a wet grass sound, and she said “Trayvon, Trayvon” and before it disconnected she heard a little bit of Trayvon – kind of heard Trayvon – saying -“get off get off”

    She said (at 23:17) there was a rumor that Monday when she went to school – she had friends who went to his schoolk who told her – going around his school the next morning saying that he had passed away – but she didn’t believe it.

    (This probably reflects several different adjustments to the story – probably, first she heard he was dead so she didn’t call, then, because even his father didn’t know at that time, that it was only a rumor, then because such a rumor could not be based on fact, or maybe because she didn’t contact anyone, that she didn’t believe it.

    But she officially found out he was dead that Tuesday afternoon, when a female friend sent her a text of an article saying that Trayvon died. (at 24 minutes)

    Then she looked at her phone and her phone hung up at 7:16 she saw.

    She also said that Trayvon never told her the name of the store. (I don’t think they ever confirmed any purchase) She described what he got as “candy” and “Arizona” not even iced tea. She couldn’t understand the question about the length of time it took him to walk back from the store – didn’t understand from the time and location the Martin family lawyers and the state had settled on it took an awfully long time to walk back a mile.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  105. So strong in the dumb side of the force, that she even breathes, a mystery it is!

    Yoda (ee1de0)

  106. The beginning of her testimony isn’t difficult to hear – and I think later – there was sme kind of a problem with the microphone, or the microphone set up. But any place it is difficult to hear, it also was for them in the courtroom, and they clarify it.

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  107. I’m thinking about the supposed rumor Monday morning February 27, 2012 that that Trayvon was dead Rachel Jeantel says testified to.

    Now:

    Either there was such a rumor or there was not, and both possibilities don’t make things look good for the state’s case.

    If there was no such rumor – it’s another lie Rachel Jeantel told. And you wonder what led her into it.

    But if there was such a rumor – theres amystery. How? How could anyone know he wass dead while his family didn’t know?

    There could two ways someone could know. Someone else was talking on the phone with Trayvon, and knew something had happened. Or they wanted to talk to him and…

    Then they called the police in Sanford, or somebody called the phone and the police in Sanford picked up, except I don’t think we heard anything about that.

    There would be something important here.

    Of course, according to the prosecution and Trayvon Martin’s family, there was such a rumor that Trayvon Martin was dead, but it was a coincidence!!

    How likely is that? That only occurs in detective novels.

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  108. She actually said that she can’t read cursive? Its the education system that should be on trial. Definitely nauseated at the idea of this is what our future holds!

    Marc Tanner (3a346d)

  109. #110, MT, Rachel Jeantel said that she couldn’t read cursive on the stand when asked by defense attorneys to read from a letter she “sent” to TraMar’s mother. Jeantel was unable to read the letter to the court and admitted it was actually someone else, “a friend,” that had written the letter for her.

    As far as I know, it was never revealed who that friend was but I suspected it might be Benjamin Crump or Nicole Jackson, attorneys for the Martin family. Nor did anyone ask how it was possible for an individual who couldn’t read longhand to know what the word cursive meant and to use it correctly in a sentence.

    Subsequent to her testimony and stung by criticism Rachel Jeantel has claimed to be educated and to have a 3.0 GPA.

    ropelight (3b089b)

  110. Make that Natalie Jackson, not Nicole. My mistake.

    ropelight (3b089b)

  111. Comment by ropelight (3b089b) — 7/18/2013 @ 6:15 am

    Nor did anyone ask how it was possible for an individual who couldn’t read longhand to know what the word cursive meant and to use it correctly in a sentence.

    It definitely was possible becase she did indeed use that word. The question is how was it possible?

    It was strange. I got the feeling that she must have gotten that word from somebody who prepared her for her testimony. Would she normally know and use that word? They used to call that “script”

    “Cursive” sounds like the kind of word a teacher would use (unless maybe they are using that word now in class. The adoption of a Ph.D. level rarely used word in a classroom setting does happen.

    A more interesting question would be how did the rumor that Trayvon Martin was dead spread in his school in Miami before his father, up in Sanford, even knew he was dead? But that’s what happened, according to Rachel Jeantel. She added she didn’t believe that rumor.)

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  112. Judging from what is reported about what she said on social media, Rachel Jeantel was a burgeoning alcoholic. A ogood number of her tweets (there were only a little more than a dozen) and Facebook posts were about drinking.

    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/twitter/rachel-jeantel-758403

    On Friday, she linked to a photo of numerous liquor bottles from a tweet that reported, “16 months later wowww I need a drink.” ….On her Facebook page, Jeantel uploaded a photo Sunday showing an empty bottle of Hennessy cognac, along with the caption, “Last drink for the week long ass week too.”

    They were so worried she’d get drunk, that even though her testimony was scheduled for Wednesday, somebody had to tell her, don’t take any drinks after Sunday and really emphasize it to her

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  113. Trayvon would have called a black security guard a ‘creepy ass cracka’ according to Jeantel’s revised statement? Unlikely. More likely: Foot in mouth… we’ve seen this before regarding race – with Robert Byrd’s ‘white niggah’ comment. Backpedaling.

    fit2post (e0afd4)

  114. This girl Rachel Jeantel is sickening! According to her statement on Piers Morgan about the use of the word “Nigga” I can go out tomorrow and refer to ALL MEN OF ANY RACE like this with no problem.

    I live in Detroit, and this girl is a blatant liar!
    I have been called a “cracka” while in line at the grocery store. (LIE #1)As far as the word “NIGGA,” If I decide to call peeps I know that, it’s cool. But if I go and refer to “any guy” I see that, I could get shot myself. (LIE#2)
    The use of the word “NIGGA” is a slang used mostly by Blacks referring to Black men, and everyone knows this. Does this idiot woman think everyone is stupid like her?
    There is NO DOUBT that Rachel is a “THUG” and ghetto rat. Just drive around Detroit. There are 100,000 Rachel Jeantels. Same sick demented attitude, along with the use of those same stupid words that ghetto rats use everyday of their life.

    Terry Boland (6ea575)

  115. OH, and one more compelling detail of this ghetto rat: She stated that she didn’t want to come back to court, while testifying. THEN, SHE IS ON PIER’S MORGAN IN FRONT OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE THE NEXT WEEK?
    OH, WE FORGOT, SHE WAS OFFERED CASH MONEY FOR HER VISIT. SHE EVEN MENTIONED THAT ( ON PIERS MORGAN)ABOUT “GETTING PAID”….when talking about GZ. Sad, but most white peeps don’t get a real taste of ghetto rats, and do not understand them when they are talking. But, WE ALL KNOW WHERE THIS STUPID FK IS COMING FROM. YOU MAY FOOL THOSE ON THE SHOW, BUT, YOU WILL NOT FOOL THE PUBLIC RACHEL JEANTEL…REALLY? CRACKA IS A COP? GO FK YOURSELF, CAUSE NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND WILL DO IT FOR YOU.

    Terry Boland (6ea575)

  116. I WOULD LIKE ANYONE WHO WANTS TO HEAR THE “RAW” TRUTH ABOUT THE FACTS OF RACHEL JEANTEL TO VISIT DR. JAMES MANNING ON YOU TUBE. HE TELLS IT EXACTLY THE WAY IT IS!!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGBFekj6s6E

    Terry Boland (6ea575)

  117. ropelight @111 Did you mean to say that she was lying when you said she couldn’t resd cursive? (and that that was her way of trying to get out of getting cross-examined on the content of the letter?)

    Sammy Finkelman (43c045)

  118. If ropelight did not mean it, I do. That girl lies. All the time. She tries on one lie. If it doesn’t work, she pulls out another. If that doesn’t work, she pulls out another one. And so on. You’ll get tired of cattching her on her lies before she gets tired of inventing new ones. And that not be new school. That be any time school for someone of her intellectual capacity. Mouth breathers are cross-racial and cross-generational.

    nk (875f57)

  119. Just like the lying president,nk.

    mg (31009b)

  120. We have the all time haiku senryu winner, and it’s not the Colonel, it’s nk!

    Space is limited
    In a haiku, so it’s hard
    To finish what you

    Utterly brilliant!

    The Dana who appreciates poetry (af9ec3)

  121. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    She claimed that (originally, till when?) even the Martin family only knew her as “Diamond” and she also went by “Dee Dee”

    Truly a diamond in the rough!

    The snarky Dana (af9ec3)

  122. Comment by nk (875f57) — 7/21/2013 @ 3:53 am

    If ropelight did not mean it, I do. That girl lies. All the time. She tries on one lie. If it doesn’t work, she pulls out another. If that doesn’t work, she pulls out another one. And so on.

    I know she lies. But was she lying about not being ablew to read “cursive?” Or did she get trapped in that she couldn’t read the letter the “wrote?”

    Knowing the word cursive isn’t enough to settle it. She could have gone over her testimony before with someone and been told that word, or even recognized from school, because maybe it was used a teacher.

    There’s no question she was being carefullu coached or something.

    She was an budding alcoholic, and somebody really stressed to her that she shouldn’t drink for a couple of days before because she uploaded a photo Sunday on her Facebook page (which her minder apparently didn’t realize she had because it – and also her tweets only got deleted after her name became known to the public and the defense) showing an empty bottle of Hennessy cognac, along with the caption, “Last drink for the week long ass week too.”

    Both her Facebook page and her Twitter account apparently weren’t used too much. But a number of the tweets, linked Twitpics, and Facebook messages were “jokes” about drinking.

    Sammy Finkelman (43c045)

  123. *the letter she “wrote” I think somewhere she gave the name of the person who actually wrote it.

    Of course it was written only for purposes of being released to the public.

    Sammy Finkelman (43c045)

  124. A little belated digging:

    http://www.re-newsit.com/2013/07/phone-records-for-trayvon-do-not-match.html

    The Trayvon Martin cellphone number is 786-312-9558. There ws a discussion last year on a forum. The police only found out the number on Friday March 2, 2012 at 12:45 by dialing 911 from it. That number then showd up on the 911 system. They then confirmed by calling it back twice. They still needed the PIN to get records and on March 5, they asked his father Tracy Martin for it.

    I’ve always assumed they probably have that right (although there could be a question if that was really his phone)

    One year later the number is reassigned but that means nothing.

    Rachel Jeantel’s number in 2012 (according to her tetsimony) was 786-419-3726. This is apparently actually a Simple Mobile pre-paid phone. But the calls around 7 PM were incoming calls from a T-Mobile phone.

    Here’s what somebody speculated happened:

    On Friday, March 16, Crump and the Martin family marched into the Sanford Police Station and demanded they be given the 911 calls. They were working on their narrative and dammit, they needed the exact timeline of the non-emergency call by George to finalize the scheme.

    So Jeff Triplett feels sorry or is pressured, into giving the tapes to Crump on Friday night.

    On Sunday night, lo and behold, after three weeks, Tracy has a moment of clarity and figures out Trayvon’s password. This is crap, of course, Tracy had the password to his own phone account all along, of which Trayvon was on the family plan. Anyway, I say they took the non-emergency tape and the phone bill and started matching up times and framing the story.

    7:09 – the NEN call originates
    7:04 – Dee Dee says Trayvon is under the shade (mailboxes)
    7:12 – George tells dispatcher Trayvon is running
    7:12 – Dee Dee says she calls Trayvon back and tells him to run and continues to tell him to run for about 4 minutes, but Trayvon says he lost him.
    7:16 – Dee Dee says the phone cut off (and landed in the grass and she heard wet grass and a little “get off”)
    7:16 – screams are heard on the first 911 call
    7:17 – Gun shot

    Sammy Finkelman (43c045)

  125. They apparently never submitted in evidence any phone records from Rachel Jeantel.

    Sammy Finkelman (43c045)

  126. We have the all time haiku senryu winner, and it’s not the Colonel, it’s nk!

    Space is limited
    In a haiku, so it’s hard
    To finish what you

    Utterly brilliant!

    Comment by The Dana who appreciates poetry (af9ec3) — 7/21/2013 @ 6:53 am

    Thanks Dana, but I stole it off the internet. Possibly from Colonel Haiku, it wouldn’t be the first time today.

    nk (875f57)

  127. @125 — Jeantel did give the name of the person who helped her compose the letter. Check at about the :20-:30 mark on this video. I could not make out a last name, but the first name is Francine. Commenters on The Conservative Treehouse seem to believe it is this Francine, who follows both Jeantel and Sybrina Fulton (mom of Trayvon).

    For those interested, Jeantel has given another interview with Al Sharpton. I’m starting to feel bad for this girl. She is becoming a pawn in a system she (or any other teenager) does not understand. Example: her complaining about the defense attorneys asking “question after question” and associating that as a personal attack. Attorneys on both sides ask numerous (and sometimes seemingly irrelevant) questions. It is by no means an attack. I hope her parents intervene and let her get back to a normal life.

    ratbeach (f5aad4)

  128. This contains some summary of the testimony from the T-Mobile manager Raymond MacDonald

    http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=397&f=3038&t=11597028&p=37

    2 calls from George Zimmerman’s number (407-435-2400) were examined – or verified.

    One at 7:08 PM lasted 5 minutes, another at 7:18 PM that lasted for 1 minute.

    Now the call to the nonemergency number was actually placed at 7:09:34 and lasted for just over 4 minutes. That means the time seems to be backdated (maybe till when somebody first pressed a button to make a call?)

    The second call is timestamped 7:18 pm and lasts for 1 minute!

    That could almost sound like George Zimmeman placed call right after the shooting. Or the time is wrong. George Zimmerman has said that he was sucker punched when he picked up his phone to call. But that was at 7:16!

    Two calls for the number 786-312-9558 (the cellphone Trayvon Martin was using) were examined, both of them from 786-419-3726 (claimed as Rachel Jeantel’s number)

    This doesn’t mean he only calls, just the ones he verified.

    One started at 6:54 PM and lasted for 17.5 minutes, and the second started at 7:12 PM and lasted for 3.6 minutes. (the T-Mobile bill also shows TM took a 1 minute incoming call at 7:04)

    And this I don’t understand: After the last call disconnected, the calls alternate from “incoming to outgoing.” MacDonald testified that the outgoing calls were “dropped to voicemail.” Every call after the 7:12 phone call that is outgoing was dropped to voicemail.

    ????

    Under cross examination MacDonald testified that a 1 minute call could have lasted for 1 second. All that is necessary is for the connection to have been made.

    Under redirect he testified that for more detailed records, requests must be made within 6 months.

    (Except the NSA does keep them longer.)

    Sammy Finkelman (43c045)

  129. Comment by ratbeach (f5aad4) — 7/21/2013 @ 11:08 am

    I hope her parents intervene and let her get back to a normal life.

    She may have a difficult time of that, although not as much as Tawana Brawley. She’s too important, and so long Al Sharpton and Crump are in business there will be people ery interested in her not telling the truth.

    Tawana Brawley was sued, had a judgement placed on her, which Steven Pagones is willing to waive if she will admit the truth. She was working undrr an assumeds name in Virginia but recently was found and her wages were being garnished.

    Al Sharpton had a fundraiser for her in New Jersey where cash donations were taken to pay the judgement.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/it_tawana_fe_z178pEfXuhZ2VlacVTvaQO

    Officially, the fundraiser was for a kids camp run by the Freedom Retreat for Children. But that was just the admission charge.

    People were also dropping money into envelopes.

    This fundraiser is usually held in Harlem but was moved to New Jersey because Glenda Brawley, Tawana Brawley’s mother has a warrant out for her arrest because of procedural charges related to the hoax.

    This is organized crime. This happens (or happened) at Mafia weddings. Al Sharfoton got his judgement taken care of that way too, a few years ago.

    I would think even the whole purpose of these nationwide demonstrations about Trayvon Martin is that so that nobody should look too closely at all the evidence here.

    Sammy Finkelman (43c045)

  130. From the New York Post story:

    Brawley refused comment as she left yesterday’s event with a coat over her head, surrounded by eight men. She was driven off in an SUV that had Virginia plates.

    You know this is almost like the way Communists could not admit a lie.

    Sammy Finkelman (43c045)

  131. Of course Jeantel could read cursive. Most of the letters look the same and it was her letter, after all. She isn’t mentally impaired or anything.

    Jeantel knew that her story changed again and she didn’t want to be cross examined on her earlier story. She didn’t want to answer the question ‘were you lying then or are you lying now’. I suspect she was lying both times. I think the idea of Trayvon, the self proclaimed street fighter and no limit n*****, calling his gal to tell her he was running away from a random ‘creepy ass cracka’ is preposterous. We’ve seen plenty of Trayvon’s comments, and 100% of them portray himself as a badass, and none express that kind of fear. I believe that Jeantel encouraged Trayvon to get into a fight with the nosey neighbor. That would explain her lying to get out of a funeral she helped cause.

    Dustin (303dca)

  132. 105.Maybe she meant she should have been in church the whole day and night on the sunday nearest the anniversary.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (1e81da) — 7/16/2013 @ 11:27 pm

    Twerking for Jesus?

    110.She actually said that she can’t read cursive? Its the education system that should be on trial. Definitely nauseated at the idea of this is what our future holds!

    Comment by Marc Tanner (3a346d) — 7/18/2013 @ 5:40 am

    She told Piers Morgan she has a 3.0 GPA.

    I actually believe all of it. She’s a 19 year old high school senior who can’t read cursive yet she’s above average in her school system.

    Steve57 (2dd692)

  133. Or, err, she’ll be a senior in the fall. So she’ll be 20 when she graduates from HS.

    Steve57 (2dd692)

  134. If she graduates from HS.

    Steve57 (2dd692)

  135. Dustin, your scenario (Jeantel urging TM to fight) is how I think it went down, too. No way to know, but it’s exactly the sort of thing that girls of a certain sort do, you know.

    Pious Agnostic (20c167)

  136. PA, I think she urged TM to fight, but not directly. She told him he had etter run away or the gay rapist would get him. So naturally TM couldn’t do that.

    Steve57 (2dd692)

  137. * better

    Steve57 (2dd692)

  138. The only basis for the gay rapist claim is a proven liar, so I don’t rely too heavily on that. I think Jeantel and Trayvon recognized a nosey neighbor as easily and any of us can, and Trayvon being a criminal did not like the idea at all.

    Dustin (b2a7b7)

  139. Of course there’s the possibility he took him for a gangsta what with his red shirt (even though it is not so much of a symbol any more) AND CELLPHONE (Trayvon Martin was totally new to sandford and didn’t know the siutuation around there.

    I mean he didn’t think he was talking to the police, or about to again. Could he have? TM wasn’t wanted by police.

    Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42)

  140. Comment by Dustin (303dca) — 7/21/2013 @ 11:26 am

    calling his gal

    It was an incoming call.

    to tell her he was running away from a random ‘creepy ass cracka’ is preposterous. We’ve seen plenty of Trayvon’s comments, and 100% of them portray himself as a badass, and none express that kind of fear. I believe that Jeantel encouraged Trayvon to get into a fight with the nosey neighbor. That would explain her lying to get out of a funeral she helped cause.

    I’m not sure we know anything. He did run at first after getting closer to GZ.

    Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42)

  141. Dustin, she said that several times, sometimes under oath.

    I think it’s reasonable to suspect that she goaded TM into confronting GZ by questioning his manhood.

    Which would explain why she told TM’s mother she felt guilty. And also the lies, as well as her intense desire to stay out of the whole thing.

    Steve57 (2dd692)

  142. Of course there’s the possibility he took him for a gangsta what with his red shirt

    I do not think that is a realistic possibility.

    AND CELLPHONE

    Cellphones have been very common for 10 years now. Someone being on the cell phone doesn’t suggest they are in a gang or otherwise suspicious. If anything, this further confounds the idea that George was seen as a gay rapist. Why would a gay rapist be on the phone while following a burglar? Makes more sense that they were a nosey neighbor reporting a suspicious person.

    I’m not sure we know anything.

    We know that Trayvon was pounding George’s head into the pavement before he was shot, which is the important part of the self defense notion. And we know that Trayvon had jewelry stolen during burglaries. And we know that he got into a fight with a nosey neighbor who was reporting burglary suspects after a series of these crimes were committed by residents.

    We know enough.

    Dustin (b2a7b7)

  143. Dustin, she said that several times, sometimes under oath.

    I know. I just don’t believe her. I think it’s her idea of a nasty thing to say about George.

    I think it’s reasonable to suspect that she goaded TM into confronting GZ by questioning his manhood.

    Agreed. One way or another, I suppose. Though I don’t think Trayvon needed goading to get into this kind of fight, since he boasted about having done so and even expressed disappointment that he last nose he busted didn’t bleed more. I don’t think it took goading to get him to bust another nose. This guy was an idiot and he was already on the path that killed him long before his parents treated him like a hot potato.

    Honestly, not having a real father is what I would say really killed him. Whether it was one of George’s bullets or drugs or something else is almost incidental.

    Dustin (b2a7b7)

  144. Why would a gay rapist be on the phone while following a burglar?

    He was organizing the train.

    Steve57 (2dd692)

  145. LOL. The interesting thing about the gay rapist claim is how it should lead to criticism of Trayvon, since his attack on this supposed gay man was so vicious.

    But I just can’t buy that. I think Jeantel knows enough about this story to know that Trayvon’s attack requires a justification (she is overestimating how much her audience cares that Trayvon attacked someone… the only people seeking a justification do not value Jeantel’s integrity).

    She concocted a theory where Trayvon was protecting his community from a gay guy, but there’s no reasonable world where you decide someone might be a gay rapist so you beat the hell out of him so he doesn’t start raping everybody.

    Perhaps I am trying too hard to rationalize the mentality of a drug user…

    Dustin (b2a7b7)

  146. Dustin, none of this is mutually exclusive.

    She could have goaded him into fighting by saying he’d do it if the guy was security, but if he was afraid of being raped by the gay guy he should run home to daddy’s house.

    You need to read the Piers Morgan transcript. She told Morgan that TM was creeped out after she told him GZ was a gay rapist. You’re right; none of TM’s tweets ever mentioned anything like that kind of fear. But would you expect some 17 y.o. thug trying to create a reputation as a badass to ever mention something like that?

    This could all be street psychology according to Rachel Jeantel, but from what she was telling Morgan about how every boy or man “who’s not that way” would be weirded out if they thought they were being stalked by a gay rapist it sure sounded to me like Jeantel thought that would be a way to manipulate TM.

    This guy was an idiot and he was already on the path that killed him long before his parents treated him like a hot potato.

    Actually TM’s parents had been treating him like a hot potato for practically his entire life.

    http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Trayvon-Martin-Was-Just-a-Cheerful-Person-His-Stepmother-Says-143921646.html

    Trayvon Martin “Was Just a Cheerful Person,” His Stepmother Says

    Alesha Martin says she loved him like a son, never referring to him as anything else

    Have you heard of her before?

    Steve57 (2dd692)

  147. …there’s no reasonable world where you decide someone might be a gay rapist so you beat the hell out of him…

    I thought we were discussing Trayvon Martin’s world?

    Steve57 (2dd692)

  148. You need to read the Piers Morgan transcript.

    Words I never expected to read.

    But would you expect some 17 y.o. thug trying to create a reputation as a badass to ever mention something like [fear]?

    No. No more than I’d expect him to express it to a lady on a phone call, though.

    Actually TM’s parents had been treating him like a hot potato for practically his entire life.

    To me, working over Jeantel’s claims for whatever truth there is[n’t] is not the right way to look at this tragedy. The right way is right there, with Trayvon’s parents, an education system that failed, a culture that is depraved (and I do not mean ‘black culture’, I mean this entire culture). We need to work on education and family with a culture of personal responsibility, but instead we’re basically making a reality show of this Jeantel lady.

    Dustin (b2a7b7)

  149. I think I’m not making myself understood. I never suggested TM told Jeantel he thought GZ was a gay rapist.

    It’s the opposite. Jeantel thought that the way to manipulate TM was to tell him GZ was a gay racist, then imply he was afraid because of it.

    When you get right down to it, unsaid in all this is that it’s OK for TM to jump GZ if TM felt diss’d. That’s why none of the black race mongers will dare say TM did anything wrong. He was just walking to the corner store while black. Implicit is that walking to the store while black means assaulting anyone who disrespects you while you’re doing it. If you let someone get away with a little disrespect now, what’s the next humiliation going to be?

    That demonstrates insecurity in and of itself. Like arab culture takes part in honor killing because it’s a shame culture, so is street culture. I’m not making a reality show out of Jeantel’s life when I observe she probably knows pretty well how to use that insecurity to manipulate guys like TM.

    What do you imagine the greatest shame is that someone like TM could suffer? Let me illustrate with a story, because in a shame society you can’t let someone get away with taking your stuff. But that isn’t the greatest shame.

    A sheik who was asleep under the palm tree when a very poor Arab saw him and stole his expensive cloak. In the morning the sheik was angry and his followers hunted down the thief and brought him to trial. When asked for an explanation, the accused said, “Yes, I did steal this cloak. I saw a man asleep under a tree, so I had sexual relations with him while he slept and then I took the cloak.” The sheik immediately replied “That is not my cloak,” and the thief went free.

    I realize that you may think I’m going far afield, but there’s a reason why Islam does booming business in our prisons.

    Steve57 (2dd692)

  150. Here’s a blog post about the difference between a shame culture and a guilt culture.

    http://drsanity.blogspot.com/2005/08/shame-arab-psyche-and-islam.html

    It too is largely about Islamic society, but it applies to the street/prison culture as well. What really sets the two apart is probably best illustrated by the matrix that summarizes the various reactions when you yourself believe your are guilty of an offense combined with when others either believe you are guilty or not guilty of the offense.

    In a guilt culture if you believe you aren’t guilty but others do, you fight the accusation and protest your innocence.

    In a shame culture when you believe you’re not guilty but others think you are, you are shamed by their belief. You take revenge on whoever shamed you.

    Whatever the reason, TM couldn’t let Jeantel think he ran away from GZ.

    Steve57 (2dd692)

  151. #152, Steve, although the notion is new to me, my initial reaction is that it’s well worth exploring. It would explain so much that has so far remained outside the boundaries of reasonable expectation. As yet, I’m not signing on, but I am paying attention.

    ropelight (93ce67)

  152. It was a Squirrel, that Jeantel put forth, however it doesn’t reflect well on Martin,

    narciso (3fec35)

  153. Ropelight:

    http://www.amazon.com/Violence-Reflections-National-James-Gilligan/dp/0679779124

    Violence: Reflections on a National Epidemic [Paperback]
    James Gilligan (Author)

    Book Description
    Release date: April 29, 1997
    Drawing on firsthand experience as a prison psychiatrist, his own family history, and literature, Gilligan unveils the motives of men who commit horrifying crimes, men who will not only kill others but destroy themselves rather than suffer a loss of self-respect. With devastating clarity, Gilligan traces the role that shame plays in the etiology of murder and explains why our present penal system only exacerbates it. Brilliantly argued, harrowing in its portraits of the walking dead, Violence should be read by anyone concerned with this national epidemic and its widespread consequences.

    The author:

    James Gilligan is an American psychiatrist and author, husband of Carol Gilligan and best known for his series of books entitled Violence, where he draws on 25 years of work in the American prison system to describe the motivation and causes behind violent behavior. During his career, Gilligan has served as director for the Bridgewater State Hospital for the criminally insane, director of mental health for the Massachusetts prison system and as President of the International Association for Forensic Psychotherapy. He now lectures at the Department of Psychiatry, New York University. Professor Gilligan is an Adjunct Professor at NYU Law and Collegiate Professor at NYU’s College of Arts and Sciences. He has been on the faculty at NYU since 2002. Previously, Dr. Gilligan was a faculty member at Harvard Medical School, where he worked from 1966 to 2000. In 1977 he became the Director of the…

    Read more – Shopping-Enabled Wikipedia on Amazon

    Steve57 (2dd692)

  154. It’s the opposite. Jeantel thought that the way to manipulate TM was to tell him GZ was a gay racist, then imply he was afraid because of it.

    Ah. Well, who knows. Maybe she did tell him that. Or maybe she was angry that George was vindicated and Jeantel was proven dishonest and was just inserting this idea that he was gay into the story as a distraction or even a stupid insult.

    I guess it doesn’t really change anything that really matters about this story anyway.

    Dustin (b2a7b7)

  155. Well, considering how many times Jeantel tried keep from being involved at all it hardly strikes me she was angry GZ was vindicated. She lied about her age so she could pretend she couldn’t talk to the Martin’s or their attorneys without her mom’s permission, which she told her mom not to give. She had her friend write a letter she can’t read hoping they’d leave her alone if they got that. Heck, she threw a hissy fit when West told the judge she had to come back for a second day. As far as Jeantel was concerned she was done. Hardly the actions of someone dedicated to the proposition of seeing GZ behind bars.

    But it’s not important what she said to TM. Ultimately TM made the choice that ended his life.

    I think the important thing about this story is the reason why TM is dead is because he had to go back and get his “respect” from GZ.

    That’s what’s coming through loud and clear. It’s why these “justice for trayvon” rallies are a flop.

    Check out this article from the LA Slimes:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-rally-new-york-20130720,0,4578104.story

    This was Sharpton’s flagship rally in Manhattan.

    NEW YORK–The mother of Trayvon Martin broke down and wept Saturday as she spoke to hundreds of people who gathered in New York City for one of scores of rallies held nationwide to honor the teenager shot dead by George Zimmerman.

    Hundreds? Eliminate the MFM from the head count and maybe a a hundred. Left unmentioned in the article is that Beyonce and Jay-Z showed up for this cultural milestone. And the best they can do is hundreds? As in, not even a thousand.

    The crowd the LA slimes claims numbered 400 in LA is even more suspect. View the slideshow and like me you’re going to be left with the impression that is one sparse crowd. It hardly fits the definition of the word crowd. Maybe 50 people. I’ve seen more people at a taxi stand.

    People like Sharpton aren’t really fooling anyone anymore. Hopefully that’s what’s important about this case.

    Steve57 (2dd692)

  156. Sharpton et al is fooling people. Today I heard The Geraldo Rivera radio show and Ted Nugent was a guest. At one point Ted Nugent said something about Taryvon Martin’s parents – he’d been kicked out of school three times he said and why was he out at nioght past 11 pm. Geraldo Rivera corrected him that it was 7:15 and the Ted Nugent said why didn’t they tecah him not to attack someone and ionstead he should say “Hey pal, why are you following me” thinbgs like that.’

    Later a black man called snd he said he heard something that had been bothering him – people say that traytvon Martin attacked George Zimmerman and he claimed there wa sno reason to think so except that’s what George Zimmerman said.

    So they are fooling people – have been for a whole year and more. Trayvon Martion’s parents heard the testimony – they know what the evidence shows. Not to mention that Trayvon MArtin got into fights with other people. A bus driver I think he said.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  157. Rachel Jeantel’s letter in cursive handwriting that she didn’t write:

    http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/NEWS/w8_letter.pdf

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  158. Text of Rachel Jeantels’s letter: (on lined paper)

    March 19, 2012

    I was on the phone when Trevon [sic] decided to go to the Cornerstore. It started to rain so he decided to walk through another complex because it was raining to [sic] hard. He started walking then noticed someone was following him. Then he decided to find a shortcut cause the man wouldn’t follow him [?] The he said the man didn’t follow him. again. Then he looked back and saw the man again. the man started getting closer. then Trevon [sic] turned around and said Why are you following me!! Then I heard him fall, then the phone hung up. I called him back and there was no response. In my mind I thought it was just a fight. Then I found out this tragic story.

    Thank You,

    (signature blacked out)

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  159. Notes:

    1) She says that Trayvon decided to go to the “corner store” – a phrase she repeated in her testimony – after she was already talking to him!

    This does not square with him visiting the 7-11 where he might have gotten skittles and iced tea. Indeed she was all confused about the length of time Trayvon wwas walking in her testimony. She had no idea it was supposed to take so long.

    2) Whoever wrote this misspells Trayvon’s name. (Google gives 690,000 results including some for “Treveon Martin” Trayvon gives 37,400,000 results, “Trayvon -martin” gives 66,800,000 results (!??) There’s also a Trayvon Robinson who is a pitcher for the Baltimore Orioles and a Trayvon Reed who is a high school basketball player))

    3) Whoever wrote this is not familiar at all with Sanford, even the limited way you might be familiar after talking on the phone. She seems to think the area consists of apartment complexes.

    4) In this version there is no car that George Zimmerman is in or Trayvon never mentions it. Trayvon Martin never approaches it. The first time they get close is when the man reaches him. Trayvon Martin never runs.

    5) Trayvon falls at the beginning of the confrontation. She “hears” him fall. Later she claimed she heard the the headset fall.

    The question is exactly for what audience was this letter produced? It might be for a different version of events than what was being told to the police – purely for fundraising or public relations pourposes.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  160. Why do you think they blotted out the signature?

    Because it is hers, or because it is not hers? Is it in a different handwritinmg than the rest of the letter?

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)


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