Patterico's Pontifications

11/16/2012

Israel to Invade Gaza?

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 6:35 pm

Looks that way. And with Gaza firing rockets into Tel-Aviv and even Jerusalem, I’m not sure what choice they have.

131 Responses to “Israel to Invade Gaza?”

  1. Ding.

    Patterico (8b3905)

  2. Why is Israel always do aggressive in killing innocent Pali children?

    JD (185efa)

  3. last time they tried to get all crazy with the idf cheez whiz they really kinda bit off more than they could chew

    happyfeet (927431)

  4. I hope the best for them. But the end game is unclear and there’s a lot more crazy muzzies in that neck of the woods than it would appear Israel has fighters and defenses. Who knows anymore upon whom they can count as allies or who might be willing to attempt to assist the situation as regional temperature lowerers.

    And, the US Dept. of State has not filled the world with confidence in their competence as of late. I wonder how Huma feels about all this and what she’s telling Hillary. What position will Susan Rice take at the U.N.?

    elissa (74bc77)

  5. The word I heard was that calling up 16,000 reserve troops meant business, that it is too disruptive to society to do it as a bluff.

    I also heard something about Hamas having some new and better rockets, hence in range of Jerusalem.

    Madness.

    here’s a photo that I doubt you would ever see the situation reversed:
    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/11/a-picture-you-will-never-see.php

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  6. It’s as I suspected; Morsi blusters about showing solidarity with the Gazans, but he was really there to try to rein in the real radical groups after Hamas failed to make them quit provoking Israel.

    Hours earlier, Egypt’s prime minister, denouncing what he described as Israeli aggression, visited Gaza and said Cairo was prepared to mediate a truce.

    …Kandil said: “Egypt will spare no effort … to stop the aggression and to achieve a truce.”

    A Palestinian official close to Egypt’s mediators told Reuters Kandil’s visit “was the beginning of a process to explore the possibility of reaching a truce. It is early to speak of any details or of how things will evolve”.

    I’d say the fact that the Gazan terrorist groups fired 196 rockets into Isreal (99 destroyed by Iron Dome) indicates he failed to do so.

    I’ve also read that the Israeli Air Force has shifted missions to opening a path for a ground invasion. Hitting minefields, firing positions, etc.

    And according to the above article, the highway leading into Gaza and two roads bordering it will be closed to civilian traffic.

    It looks like the balloon’s going up.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  7. Doc, as of late today the Israeli cabinet authorized the call-up of 75,000 reservists.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  8. Obama should just send Susan Rice over there to chill everybody out because she’s such a national treasure.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  9. “What position will Susan Rice take at the U.N.?”

    Ignore terror attacks carried out against the United States or our allies, while calling for U.S. military intervention to help people who aren’t Americans and aren’t our friends.

    The usual.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  10. “What position will Susan Rice take at the U.N.?”

    Spread Eagle

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  11. Why does Israel keep building its cities in direct fire line of where they know that Palestinian terrorists are aiming their rockets ?

    As Kofi Annan used to say, “That’s provocative.”

    Elephant Stone (65d289)

  12. Yeah, you know the Alamo was the same way to Santa Ana, needlessly provocative.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  13. A little reminder from the third Presidential debate,

    PRESIDENT OBAMA: I will stand with Israel if they are attacked. And this is the reason why, working with Israel, we have created the strongest military and intelligence cooperation between our two countries in history.

    Dana (292dcf)

  14. And as you see, there’s a connection with the other thread;

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57551439/hamas-targets-jerusalem-in-major-escalation/

    narciso (ee31f1)

  15. Will the U.S. participate?

    Michael Ejercito (2e0217)

  16. I wonder if the Israelis are doing a test run of Obama’s solidarity. His response here will be informative.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  17. Wonder if unemployed US Generals and Admirals will turn mercenary. As independent contractors, certainly.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  18. Also wonder how many EMP devices will be required to send Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iran back to the Bronze age.

    I assume they’ll still have the know how to mine and smelt copper, tin, nickel and zinc.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  19. “…in recent years, Hamas and other armed groups have smuggled in sophisticated, longer-range rockets from Iran and Libya, which has been flush with weapons since Moammar Gadhafi was ousted last year.”–CBS

    One more thing you can thank Obambi for…if it’s true.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  20. Its sad that the non palestinian Hamas has come in and forced two troubled people further down a path of destruction rather than peace.

    Pray, for the innocents, pray that the IDF finds them and hunt the murdering terrorists down once and for all

    EPWJ (719277)

  21. You know, I’ve always wondered why the Israelis don’t take the “We love death more than you love life” crowd at their word and give them what they say they love.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  22. They’ve tried, Steve, like Wrath of God, after Munich, and the various Lebanese incursion, but as we saw in 2006, they fire from civilian areas, in order to incur casualties in those same areas,,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  23. 1/2 mile scorched earth no man’s zone.

    All. The. Way. Around.

    Sow the ground with seismic detectors (tunneling), remote mines

    and proximity detecting bouncing betty mines.

    Jcw46 (f23062)

  24. 22. They’ve tried, Steve, like Wrath of God, after Munich, and the various Lebanese incursion, but as we saw in 2006, they fire from civilian areas, in order to incur casualties in those same areas,,

    Comment by narciso — 11/16/2012 @ 8:51 pm

    The Law Of Armed Conflict says the terrorists are guilty for every single civilian casualty because they deliberately failed to distinguish themselves from civilians.

    Charge every Hamas crapweasel you don’t kill with multiple counts of murder, convict them as war criminals, and execute them.

    Enough of lawfare, when leftists argue that western nations need to abide by international laws and treaties but the savages don’t because they don’t have any other means to resist.

    Of course they don’t; they’re savages.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  25. It’s like when they firing RPGs from the Mosque minarets in Mosul and other places, very hard to take out the bogies without collateral damage,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  26. Well, really it isn’t the Israelis responsibility to cut it that close. If the terrorists insist on putting a valid military target next to a school or hospital or in this case a mosque and a factory (although if it’s a suicide vest or bomb factory it’s a valid military target, too) then they’re the ones who failed to distinguish between military and civilian.

    The Isrealis can engage it out of necessity, using all the force required (i.e. is proportional to destroy the objective) to destroy it.

    The Israeli wouldn’t be the war criminal. The war criminal is the crapweasel who put that launch site there.

    Law of Armed Conflict (LOAC)

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  27. narciso, hence the link.

    Targeting Objects. The LOAC specifically describes objects that shall not be the targets of a direct attack. Reflecting the rule that military operations must be directed at military objectives, objects normally dedicated to peaceful purposes enjoy a general immunity from direct attack. Specific protection applies to medical units or establishments; transports of wounded and sick personnel; military and civilian hospital ships; safety zones established under the Geneva Conventions; and religious, cultural, and charitable buildings, monuments, and POW camps. However, if these objects are used for military purposes, they lose their immunity. If these protected objects are located near lawful military objectives (which LOAC prohibits), they may suffer collateral damage when the nearby military objectives are lawfully engaged.

    It isn’t collateral damage; collateral damage would be caused if they place a mortar near the mosque. If they’re firing from the mosque, it’s become a valid military target. Take out the mosque.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  28. if they are near a mosque, or what have you, the protected place has to take it’s chances.

    if they are IN a protected place, it’s not protected and you can BTS out of it… (within reason %-)

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  29. Our young presidential consumer of intelligence might want to forgo the next few days of eighteen holes.

    Ag80 (b2c81f)

  30. The Israelis need to drive every Gaza denizen across the Suez Canal. Leave nothing living in Gaza. No blade of grass, no stone standing on stone, no eye left open to weep. But it won’t happen, and this horror will continue for a fifth generation.

    nk (875f57)

  31. “Proportional war” only perpetuates war. Every farmboy knows that when you kill a snake, you cut off its head and burn it.

    nk (875f57)

  32. To #31: My thoughts exactly. Send the denizens elsewhere. Then prime the pumps, and pump the fields with sea water. Salting the fields and wells is a time honored tradition in that part of the world, and the locals will appreciate it. Blow up every building and bridge, topple every power pole and tear up every road. Then evacuate.

    Milwaukee (4e5eac)

  33. I was serious, Milwaukee. You end a war by taking away the enemy’s ability to live, let alone fight. Berlin, Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki?

    nk (875f57)

  34. nk @34, that’s how the Romans approached it. Oddly enough they proved their approach to battle in defeat. As Hannibal found out after Cannae. It was a crushing defeat. Any other nation would have capitulated. But the Romans kept throwing together another army and sending it out. Hannibal couldn’t figure out how to deal with an enemy that wouldn’t give up.

    To the Romans war was to the death. That’s why even in defeat a Roman army was a pretty tough nut to crack. King Pyrrhus of Epirus gave his name to the kind of victory you could expect with the Romans.

    Naturally, since that’s how they looked at it when they were losing they were usually none to gentle when they won. Especially if you hadn’t surrendered before the first battering ram touched the wall of your city.

    Considering how long they lasted I’d say there’s something to that philosophy.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  35. 31- The IDF needs to level these cowardly pricks. All of them.

    mg (31009b)

  36. At some point the guys in Israel who want to remove all Arabs from Gaza and the West Bank are going to get their way.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  37. When hamas begs for a cease fire, unload all your ordinates on these turds.

    mg (31009b)

  38. a sea level canal across the Sinai, dug with nukes would take Egypt out of the threat matrix…

    just sayin’

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  39. I’m not sure what choice they have.

    The alternative answer is clearly obvious:
    Bend over and take it like the good little Jewboy Faggots the Muslims say they are. Can’t disabuse the Islamics of key elements of their Faith, can you? I mean… REALLY! The IDEA!!

    PRESIDENT OBAMA: I will stand with Israel if they are attacked. And this is the reason why, working with Israel, we have created the strongest military and intelligence cooperation between our two countries in history.

    Presidential Spokesidiot: “Wha? Wha? Yu tawt we wuz seeryus ’bout dat? Fuggeddaboutit!! Weeyaz dun *been* elektid, now!!”

    IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States (8e2a3d)

  40. Are they really firing rockets from Egypt?!?!

    JD (185efa)

  41. these people are such miserable effing cliches and the cnn propaganda sluts just lick it up like a dusty coke mirror

    happyfeet (927431)

  42. 41. Are they really firing rockets from Egypt?!?!

    Comment by JD — 11/17/2012 @ 6:36 am

    Obama’s partner in peace. You know, I think Obama likes Morsi better than Netanyahu because Obama understands Morsi as a fellow liar. They both had to lie to their electorates and pretend they wanted what the electorate wanted (Alinskyites, though Morsi certainly wouldn’t want to be associated with a Jew). Obama had to pretend he’s for the middle class when he despises the middle class. And Morsi had to pretend he’s a hard-core salafist jihadi when as bad as he is he’s really not suicidal.

    Neither is Haniyeh of Hamas. But it’s starting to appear that because of their rhetoric both Haniyeh and Morsi have lost control of their hard-core salafist jihadis.

    Haniyeh can’t stop them from provoking Israel in Gaza. Morsi went there to see if he could get them to tone it down; he couldn’t. Now the MB base and other groups are joining in from Egyptian territory in the Sanai. I guess they’re trying to prove Morsi has lost control of them, too.

    See if Israel ever trades land for peace again.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  43. glass teh whole place over!

    Colonel Haiku (4e59c4)

  44. Meshaal runs the External wing of Hamas, relocated from Damascus, but Haniyeh’s about as much a moderate as Ghannouchi over in Tunis, meaning not much,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  45. …no bomb shelter in my building in Jerusalem on Friday.We spent about 20 minutes behind a stairwell. Went to fetch my neighbor upstairs with her 2 month old baby and 3 year old- she was scared and totally distraught. Imagine doing this countless times for long periods of time or overnight if you live within easy access of gaza missile – unimaginable.

    NLM (ba55de)

  46. Meanwhile, the Nobel Peace Prize winner faces a daunting dilemma:
    NAMING DILEMMA FOR OBAMA: IS IT BURMA OR MYANMAR?
    WASHINGTON (AP) – President Barack Obama’s landmark visit to Myanmar, known by the U.S. as Burma, brings up an unusual problem of protocol: What does he call it? If recent practice by visiting U.S. officials is any guide, Obama will sidestep the issue by using neither name Monday when he becomes the first sitting American president to visit the country.

    – This looks like a job for The Man That Voted ‘Present’!

    Icy (093576)

  47. Shirley they can’t be serious,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  48. 45. Meshaal runs the External wing of Hamas, relocated from Damascus, but Haniyeh’s about as much a moderate as Ghannouchi over in Tunis, meaning not much,

    Comment by narciso — 11/17/2012 @ 8:40 am

    If you’re getting that impression from me, I didn’t mean to imply Haniyeh is a moderate. Just, like Morsi, not actually suicidal. Something of a realist. He doesn’t want to provoke Israel into actually come rolling into Gaza. But other groups like Tawhid wal-Jihad are far more reckless.

    He’d really like them to stand down before Israel gets fed up. So would Morsi. These salafists don’t care. Of course, the regular Hamas practice of arresting and torturing these salafist group leaders and members is probably not the most conducive way to get them to play ball with you when you need them.

    Which is fine with me. If these salafist groups and Islamic Jihad give Israel the justification to go wipe out Haniyeh and his crew I won’t shed a tear. It gives me a warm cozy feeling to know that the “we love death more than you love life” crowd are going to learn in their last seconds that they love death about as much as Haniyeh already knows he doesn’t.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  49. Yes, the Nour party (Salafi) which organized the Cairo protests is more directly tied to Hamas’s current operations,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  50. 47. Meanwhile, the Nobel Peace Prize winner faces a daunting dilemma:
    NAMING DILEMMA FOR OBAMA: IS IT BURMA OR MYANMAR?
    WASHINGTON (AP) – President Barack Obama’s landmark visit to Myanmar, known by the U.S. as Burma, brings up an unusual problem of protocol: What does he call it? If recent practice by visiting U.S. officials is any guide, Obama will sidestep the issue by using neither name Monday when he becomes the first sitting American president to visit the country.

    – This looks like a job for The Man That Voted ‘Present’!

    Comment by Icy — 11/17/2012 @ 9:07 am

    He can solve the problem the same way hid did when discussing the the disputed south Atlantic islands between Argentina and Britain.

    Instead of Myanmar he can just say “the Maldives.”

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  51. That last tip in “Diplomacy for Dummies” was brought to you by Sheriff Joe Biden, who would say he’s really glad to be in Bermuda.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  52. The great foreign policy solon from Scranton, yikes.

    narciso (ee31f1)

  53. 53. The great foreign policy solon from Scranton, yikes.

    Comment by narciso — 11/17/2012 @ 9:59 am

    Obama ain’t no great shake either.

    Israeli ambassador: Arab Spring made it easier for Hamas to import weapons

    Thanks for watching the show. Today’s intifada has been sponsored by Chicago Jesus.

    Israeli Ambassador Michael Oren on Friday said that the Arab Spring movement that started in late 2010 and swept rulers out of power throughout the region “embolded” Hamas and made it easier for them to import weapons that they are now using to target Israeli civilians.

    “Clearly, Hamas has felt emboldened by the changes in the region generally and that has redounded to their benefit,” Oren said in response to a question by the Washington Examiner during a conference call hosted by the Israel Project. “The major problem as far as the Arab Spring’s issues impacts the ability of Hamas to import missiles is the greater accessibility to Gaza from Sudan and Libya. And the flow of arms from Libya has been significant.

    Pom Queen brags about this.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  54. It will be interesting to watch the president try to make all parties happy. His public committment to Israel is fresh in our minds, yet so is his tone of appeasement. Arab Spring and all that…

    BY: Washington Free Beacon Staff
    November 16, 2012 2:40 pm

    Two Muslim advocacy groups closely allied with the Obama administration are aggressively attacking Israel and defending the terror group Hamas as it continues to fire rockets at Israeli civilians.

    The Obama-aligned American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) issued a statement condemning “the continuing Israeli aggression and indiscriminate slaughter of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.”

    ADC calls on the Obama Administration to stop supporting the continued Israeli aggression, and take measures to stop Israel’s continued violations of international and human rights laws,” the statement continues, without citing specific violations.

    Meanwhile, another controversial Muslim group courted by the Obama administration articulated its own sharp criticism of Israel. An official of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) called for Palestinian violence against Israelis.

    Palestine is a land occupied by foreign settlers. They have the right to resist, to defend themselves, “by any means necessary.

    Dana (292dcf)

  55. 16. I wonder if the Israelis are doing a test run of Obama’s solidarity. His response here will be informative.

    Comment by Kevin M — 11/16/2012 @ 8:16 pm

    It certainly is.

    Though President Obama uttered immediate and firm public and private assurances that Israel has a right to defend itself from rocket attacks emanating from Gaza, administration officials have been privately urging Israeli officials not to extend the conflict, a move that many American officials believe could benefit Hamas.

    I believe if you interpret “benefit” in that final sentence above as “harm” you’d be closer to the true meaning.

    There’s always an “although” with this guy in the WH. I take this to mean if Israel launches a ground offensive it’s on its own.

    Seriously, though, does this amateur really think he’s qualified to advise the Israeli government on which measures would benefit its enemies at its expense? Is this crowd really that arrogant? (Don’t answer; rhetorical question; read the following and feel the awesome.)

    Mr. Obama was also grappling with how to cajole an Egyptian government that is radically different from the one that the United States has relied on for so many years. This is no longer the Egypt of Hosni Mubarak, who for decades stood with a succession of American leaders to try to rein in Hamas against popular opinion at home.

    OMFG! Ya think, MFM?

    Well, who the eff’s fault is that. The dumbassery in this one runs deep. Do you mean to tell me that President Wonderful kicked the table over in Egypt when he personally undermined Mubarak and he had no plans beyond that? It was all going to be skittles and beer because of his name and because the people of the middle east would feel an affinity for him because of his inspiring family history (just like ivy league faculty members)?

    Yes, that was the plan.

    By the way, if you read the press you’d never know the problem Powder Puff is grappling with is one he caused, would you?

    But again, back to the top; if you were an Israeli contending with a “fundamentally transformed” Egypt courtesy of King Putt as well as Libyan weaponry in the hands of Hamas thanks to President Leading From Behind’s arab spring would you take his advice on anything? Let alone when he tries to tell Israel what is and what isn’t in its own best interests?

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  56. Why are all these happening immediately after the US election? Did Obama ask the Israelis to chill till after he’s reeclected?

    The Emperor (5647ed)

  57. Dana @55, a timely post. When groups like CAIR start squealing you know Israel is putting the hurt on Hamas and the grab bag of other terrorist orgs in Gaza. And both CAIR and Hamas are simpatico with Obama.

    And Obama did learn about the ME at the kitchen table of former PLO spokesman Rashid Khaleedi.

    Which is precisely why I know Obama is more worried about the harm Israel will do to Hamas. Everything he has done in North Africa has been to Israel’s detriment.

    Essentially his advice to Israel amounts to, “Don’t launch a ground invasion; it’ll inflame the radicals I’ve unleashed upon you.”

    As an aside, Dana, do you notice how these CAIR spokesmen refer to these terrorists as “resistance leaders and members?”

    Two can play at that game. I propose reintroducing waterboarding and calling it “hottubbing.”

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  58. Ayers, who along with Dohrn, organized the Hamas flotilla, who was in the background of the labor protests in Egypt, Wright whose newsletter trumpeted Hamas (mind you he was equally enthused about Moammar)

    narciso (ee31f1)

  59. CAIR’s political director, Awad, came from Hamas, not even one degree of Kevin Bacon

    narciso (ee31f1)

  60. If you read The ADC’s full statement, it’s not surprising to observe it omits all mention of terrorism and continued rocket assaults on Israeli citizens that have already claimed the lives of three people; as well as omitting any mention of the week of Palestinian rocket attacks on Israel that preceded the Israeli retaliation. It has been reported that more than 500 rockets have been fired at Israel since Saturday. These matters are so easily and conveniently overlooked. By some.

    Here is their full statement: http://www.adc.org/media/press-releases/2012/november-2012/take-action-help-gaza/

    Dana (292dcf)

  61. Okay, in this irritating iPad learning curve, I just realized it automatically hyperlinks. Duh.

    Dana (292dcf)

  62. No, it wasn’t awad, it was some other nazgul;

    http://freebeacon.com/obama-allies-accuse-israel-of-slaughter/

    narciso (ee31f1)

  63. Informative look at Israel’s “Iron Dome”. Enormous monetary investment but an 85 per cent effectiveness return in intercepting incoming rockets. http://m.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/how-israels-iron-dome-intercepts-incoming-rockets-gaza-conflict-1C7127842

    Dana (292dcf)

  64. Isreal’s goal in this should be to retake the Gaza strip. It is clear that the Palestinians have allowed Hamas to use that place as a ground for launching attacks on Israel after they withdrew from it some seven years ago. They should take it back and control it.

    The Emperor (574726)

  65. #58

    In the interest of honesty, the water in the tub must be kept to temperature.
    Boiling water would be counterproductive to any intelligence gathering so I’m all for using inmates at Guantanamo as lab rats for determining proper temperature.
    I’d like to see that Hezbollah guy that Iraq just released to Lebanon captured and renditioned for a few weeks of regular “tubbing”

    SteveG (831214)

  66. #65

    The Israeli’s seem to have improved their bombing accuracy immensely since the last Gaza mess… and I assume the Iron Dome at 85% under its first real crisis test is getting some data crunched right now that will make it better and better.
    Of course, so far the rockets Hamas are shooting are still of the “barely guided old water heaters stuffed with explosives” variety and I’m hoping one of them wobbles its way through the Dome and veers off to ding a Muslim holy site in Jerusalem (with no casualties of course… I don’t want innocent people hurt)

    SteveG (831214)

  67. 66.Isreal’s goal in this should be to retake the Gaza strip. It is clear that the Palestinians have allowed Hamas to use that place as a ground for launching attacks on Israel after they withdrew from it some seven years ago. They should take it back and control it.

    Comment by The Emperor — 11/17/2012 @ 12:05 pm

    Unlike the Obama administration, I wouldn’t presume to suggest to Israel what goal would be in their best interest. But I will make two observations.

    1. First of all, the idea that “neither side is willing to make any concessions for peace” or however the split-the-difference, they’re-both-equally-guilty crowd chooses to frame it is boneheaded mush. As you observed, as the Islamonazis (Godwin’s law doesn’t apply; they really are the largest consumers of Mein Kampf on the planet) insisted the Israelis made Gaze judenrein in 2005. What do they get for it? 700 rockets, each one a war crime, aimed indiscriminately at their civilian population this year alone.

    I do not want to hear that “both sides are intransigent” nonsense anymore.

    2. Along the same lines, they gave back Gaza. They gave back the Sinai, which they were entitled to keep as Egypt launched the war of aggression against Israel and then Israel took the territory in a war of self-defense, for a peace treaty. Which isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. Now rockets are being launched against Egypt from the Sinai.

    The concept that Israel could trade land for peace even if it wanted to has been completely destroyed.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  68. The Yom Kippur War is … I don’t know … anything that the Israelis could have done wrong they did? Old women, male and female, at the helm? They were steps within taking Cairo.

    nk (875f57)

  69. The concept that Israel could trade land for peace even if it wanted to has been completely destroyed.

    Comment by Steve57 — 11/17/2012 @ 12:52 pm

    What Israel has done so far is to feed the beast. It is naïve to think the Palestinians/Hamas are interested in any kind of peace with Israel, all they want is the total annihilation of the Jews. Giving up Gaza was just seen by then as a sign of weakness on the side of the Jews and a step towards the destruction of Israel. There is no appeasing these people: all they understand is war and violence.

    The Emperor (5647ed)

  70. When are you going to turn and bite, Chimperor?

    nk (875f57)

  71. Emperor, for once I find myself agreeing with you and it’s…strange.

    But ok.

    The problem is that Israel has to please its benefactors. And its benefactors, such as not just the Obama administration but nearly all previous administrations, belong to the “Cult of the Middle East Peace Process.”

    They believe in and worship this false god fervently, and they demand that Israel does so too.

    Both Israelis and Palestinians can see through it, and realize that the cultists suffer from delusions. But the cultists only have the levers of power over one side, leaving the other side free to exploit the delusions.

    We have several such cults inside the DC beltway. Another is the “Cult of Cultural Sensitivity.” If only we were more culturally sensitive our Muslim enemies and allies (same thing in Afghanistan) wouldn’t hate us so much. So, for instance, even though the Laws Of Armed Conflict specifically state that an immune site such as a mosque loses its immunity if a combatant force militarizes it, the “Cultural Sensitivity” cultists tell our Soldiers and Marines they can’t engage it if they’re taken under fire from it.

    One of the delusions these cultists suffer from is that the people who would dearly love to shoot at our guys from a mosque are being strait up when they tell our generals what the local’s cultural sensitivities are. Then after the meeting the US general walks away smug in the knowledge he’s been immersed in local cultural knowledge. The jihadi/ally runs laughing all the way to the mosque to turn it into an armory.

    The worse the results are, the more the cultists double down on sensitivity. They finally hit on the answere; the ROE wasn’t the problem. It was the troops.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/blaming_our_troops_gsNkgSOnejhkmabM2KA6TI

    Blaming our troops

    ‘Friendly’ fire attacks have killed dozens of our heroes. The Pentagon’s response? Ordering sensitivity training about Islam

    …Military officials who have done tours in Afghanistan are outraged that brass would even suggest US troops are partly to blame for their own murders.

    “I would like to see a public affairs officer explain to the press where showing the bottom of your shoe to a Muslim or shaking with your left hand was legitimate grounds for murder,” growled one US Army official.

    They say their Muslim partners would still resent them even if they followed their Islamic protocols to the letter.

    “The cultural affronts excuse is a bunch of garbage,” a senior US Army intelligence official told me. “The Afghans that know we’re doing all this PC cultural sensitivity crap are laughing their asses off at our stupidity.”

    The Cult leads to this:

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/16/us/new-york-green-on-blues/index.html

    Slain Marine sensed insider attack was coming, dad says

    The 21-year-old Marine was posted to Garmsir in Helmand Province, where he was training local security forces as part of NATO’s planned withdrawal in 2014.

    …”The guy turned around and said to Greg, ‘We don’t want you here. We don’t need you here,’” his dad said.

    “Greg turned around again and said, ‘Why would you say that?’” according to Greg Buckley Sr.

    But the trainee apparently wouldn’t relent, repeating the phrases for hours over the course of a night in which the young Marine was on guard watch.

    “Greg said, ‘I thought I was going to lose my mind,’” his father said. “Pitch black out, and all he kept saying over and over again is, ‘We don’t want you. We don’t need you. We don’t want you.’”

    “It was just tormenting for him.”

    The two men then finally confronted each other, yelling until a group of officers separated them, he told his father.

    “One of his superiors came over and had Greg apologize to the guy,” said the elder Buckley.

    The 21-year-old agreed and extended his hand, but the man refused.

    About a month later, Greg phoned his father again.

    “He told me if I have to stay here until November… I’m not going to come home.”

    Greg also asked his father to prepare to tell his mother and his two younger brothers that he’d be killed.

    “I don’t understand,” his father said. “Out in the field?’

    “No, in our base,” Greg replied.

    4 NATO troops killed in ‘insider’ attack in Afghanistan

    On August 10, 2012, Greg Buckley Jr. was gunned down by the very forces he had been training, just days after learning that he was to head home early.

    “It was only two days he had left there in Afghanistan,” his father told CNN.

    These guys know what it’s like to be an Israeli, and listen to the Washington “experts” about how to get along with your neighbors. Or unfortunately for our troops, the guy you’re training.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  72. Its amazing. Immediately after the Obama victory in ’08 Palestinians went nuts and started firing away. Now, they are ramping up the efforts because they, along with Obama, have nothing to lose and need to get as much of their goals and activities accomplished before the US goes back to having leaders that will stand up for Israel and scold the rest of the world for hiding in the shadows.

    I think this time around we need to make a list of all the countries that are standing by idle. And when our leadership changes we can and should ask them where they were when this was happening. They have shown that they will play either side and really are only interested in keeping diplomatic relations alive with us for foreign aid dollars. Well, this is a good reason to finally cut those nations off when our leadership changes. They support chaos and turmoil in their own backyard, well, they can live with it forever. And we can help give them just that indefinitely by cutting off all dollars flowing from our country to theirs. They want depravity, lets help them achieve it.

    Douglas Stewart (f9bce7)

  73. Shirley they can’t be serious,

    Rather clearly, if they’re Shirley, then they can’t be Sirius. Besides which, Sirius is/was far too honorable and decent a fellow for them to wish to emulate….

    IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States (8e2a3d)

  74. and need to get as much of their goals and activities accomplished before the US goes back to having leaders that will stand up for Israel and scold the rest of the world for hiding in the shadows.

    What they don’t get is that as soon as Ahminajad gets a couple nukes, he uses them. If he’s even vaguely smart, he only uses them against Israel. Israel shows that its nuclear stockpile is perhaps the world’s fourth largest, and pastes Iran back into the stone age.

    Option II: He’s got a third nuke, which he hits America with. America hems, haws, dithers, replaces Obama with a Republican, then Israel AND America nuke Iran — AND ANYONE ELSE in the ME WHO OPENS THEIR MOUTH in complaint. Then the new PotUS spells it out: “We’re tired of playing with you worthless children. Shape up, or you’re gone. Act to eliminate these Islamic fanatics on your own, or assume we’ll just wipe all of you out. We’ve been patient long enough.”

    Note that Ahminajad+nukes == end of Democratic hegemony.

    Also note that Ahminajad+nukes == <4 years.

    IGotBupkis, Legally Defined Cyberbully in All 57 States (8e2a3d)

  75. In a year, he’ll have directed another whole new Taliban offshoot, that was ‘unexpected’

    http://www.longwarjournal.org/archives/2012/11/pakistan_frees_dange.php

    narciso (ee31f1)

  76. These guys know what it’s like to be an Israeli, and listen to the Washington “experts” about how to get along with your neighbors. Or unfortunately for our troops, the guy you’re training.

    Comment by Steve57 — 11/17/2012 @ 2:21 pm

    Very sad story. Sometimes I wonder why we bother.

    The Emperor (03864d)

  77. Option II: He’s got a third nuke, which he hits America with.

    If anybody thinks Iranian nukes are only a threat to Israel, they’re kidding themselves.

    Venezuela as Iranian Terror Route Worries US

    The commercial service between Tehran and Caracas by Iran Air and Conviasa Air Venezuela, including a stop in Damascus, Syria, is so secretive that there’s confusion among intelligence agencies about whether the flights are continuing. Israel believes they are; the U.S. isn’t so sure.

    It’s amusing they call this “commercial service” in this article. No one can buy a ticket on them.

    And in case anyone thinks this is just right-wingnuttery…

    Commander, U.S. Naval Forces Southern Command, U.S. FOURTH Fleet,

    The the last time the US had a full-fledged fleet for the Caribbean was WWII. Since 2008 we’ve had one again.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  78. 79. Very sad story. Sometimes I wonder why we bother.

    Comment by The Emperor — 11/17/2012 @ 2:37 pm

    The Army types training our “allies” in A-stan have redoubts on their shared bases. They don’t tell the Afghans about them. They call them Alamos. So they have someplace where they can make a stand when their trainees turn on them.

    They don’t have a choice. I hope Israel develops its newly discovered energy reserves. Then Israel won’t have to listen to us.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  79. 78, obama will have Mujahid protected by secret service while he develops his new terrorist group.

    mg (31009b)

  80. so funky it be greasy…

    http://youtu.be/h5J70ouitMM

    Colonel Haiku (66ac79)

  81. Col. Ever see Little Feet? Wish I would have.

    mg (31009b)

  82. The neat thing about Arab Spring and total anarchy in ME is Israel is free to decimate Hamas and Hizb’allah at leisure.

    Couldn’t happen to a nicer group of body parts fetishists.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  83. What’s really going to be cool is when some terrorist franchise lucks out and hits a carrier with a missile.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  84. yep, Mg, saw teh Lowell George Feat several times from ’74 thru ’78 and then when he croaked in ’79, they went on hiatus and then reformed around ’88 and I have seen them several times since. The first time the reformed Feat played the Fillmore in SF in the Fall of ’88, Bill Graham Productions gave (gratis) my wife and I a table about 7-8 ft from the front of the stage… I just remember my wife taking one look at drummer Richie Hayward and saying “that boy’s on somethin’”… an awesome show even without Lowell.

    Colonel Haiku (9f4736)

  85. Living in SoCal, one could see them all over the place… stadium shows, arenas and we even saw them at the Roxy in Spring of ’76… at the Roxy, I remember sitting there at our table and having this small, long-haired fellow keep walking in and out of the dressing room area before their show, brushing the back of my chair every time. He looked real happy… real UP each time he left that area – I dunno… an espresso machine? – and I finally recognized him… Peter Frampton and that was right about the time he hit the BIG TIME.

    Colonel Haiku (9f4736)

  86. Col, sweet. What did you do to get the ring side seats?

    mg (31009b)

  87. 89- Col. sounds as if there was a hefty bag of weasel dust in that dressing room!!

    mg (31009b)

  88. I knew a guy who worked for BGP and I had bitched about Feat not being on the bill with Jimmy Buffet at Cal Expo in Sacramento as advertised, so they did a quite decent thing and made it better than right.

    Yep, MG, I’m sure it was more than coffee and, unfortunately, that crap and the rest of the dope he was taking killed George a few years later. You could literally watch his downslide from ’75 on every time he was on stage… but even at that, he was head and shoulders talent-wise over nearly every single one of his peers.

    Colonel Haiku (41b843)

  89. but now that Richie Hayward is dead, I don’t think I’ll be seeing Feat again.

    Colonel Haiku (41b843)

  90. Its sad that the non palestinian Hamas has come in and forced two troubled people further down a path of destruction rather than peace.

    WTF are you on about, EPWJ? There’s really no such as a “Palestinian people” anyway, but to the extent that there is Hamas is exactly as “Palestinian” as Fatah or any other faction. Hamas hasn’t “forced” anyone anywhere; they won the support of the Arabs of the Gaza strip, in as free an election as they’ve ever had. The people of the strip want to wipe out the Jews, and Hamas represents them.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  91. Hamas and Fatah, both stem from the Moslem Brotherhood, Arafat was a member, but it was ‘mostly secular’ the Islamic Resistance is much more influenced by Egypt’s branch, with some Jordanian influence,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  92. They’ve tried, Steve, like Wrath of God, after Munich, and the various Lebanese incursion, but as we saw in 2006, they fire from civilian areas, in order to incur casualties in those same areas,,

    More fool the Israelis for letting that stop them. They have no more duty of care to enemy civilians than the allied forces had to German and Japanese civilians in WW2. If there’s a missile launcher on a hospital roof, it’s a legitimate target, and the civilian deaths are Hamas’s war crime, not Israel’s. But successive Israeli governments have become so hyper-sensitive to foreign opinion, and to the opinions of the leftist Israeli judiciary, that they give the IDF ridiculous rules of engagement that deliberately increase the danger both to the soldiers and to Israeli civilians in order to protect the lives of enemy civilians.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  93. Well you have to realize that Kadima regime that fought the 2006 war, was elected on the basis of ‘disengagement’ from the Palestinian, to that end
    they replaced the Army Chief of staff, with an Air Force guy, Halutz, and Peres as Defense Minister

    narciso (ee31f1)

  94. See if Israel ever trades land for peace again.

    Unfortunately they will do it again and again. Netanyahu remains committed to this foolish policy.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  95. Yes, and Bibi’s agreement on another Jibreel transfer, like the deal that released much of the future leadership of the Intifada was quite dissapointing,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  96. He can solve the problem the same way hid did when discussing the the disputed south Atlantic islands between Argentina and Britain.

    Instead of Myanmar he can just say “the Maldives.”

    Or instead of Burma he can say “Benin”.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  97. If they the Israelis are not willing to commit to a war of extermination (and it may mean theirs), they must commit to a dead zone around their country.

    nk (875f57)

  98. How do you say “Burma” in Austrian?

    nk (875f57)

  99. Well, the good thing is Gaia will not lose, in the Gazans, an incalculably precious genome, like the snail darter or something analogous.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  100. And I see the Amazon widget. But where’s the best comment section on the internet? If you “somebody’s” brother “fixing” it?

    nk (875f57)

  101. the Islamonazis (Godwin’s law doesn’t apply; they really are the largest consumers of Mein Kampf on the planet)

    It’s closer than that. Their grandparents, led by Haj Amin al Husseini, were formally allied with Hitler in WW2, and they never surrendered or gave up the struggle. They are simply continuing their grandparents’ war.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  102. Well that is true, that Tabari chap, was the head of an outfit, the Izz at Quadin, (sic) brigades, named after a leader in 1936-39 intifada,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  103. .Isreal’s goal in this should be to retake the Gaza strip.

    Wow, the Chimperor says something sensible! Will wonders never cease?

    The smallish plot of land that used to be called the Katif bloc, which held about five Jewish villages, was known between ’48 and ’67 as a barren patch that got no rain and was completely useless. When the Jews started settling there, it began to rain, and they turned it into an agricultural powerhouse, supplying greenhouse-grown vegetables for the whole country and for export. When Sharon expelled the Jews, destroyed their homes, and handed the greenhouses over to the Arabs so they could use them, first the Arabs destroyed the greenhouses, and then the rain stopped. As far as I know the weather there has reverted to its pre-67 state. It’s waiting for its proper owners to return.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  104. Comment by nk — 11/17/2012 @ 6:56 pm

    If they the Israelis are not willing to commit to a war of extermination (and it may mean theirs), they must commit to a dead zone around their country.

    What I read earlier is that Israel (that is Barak and Netanyahu) don’t want an invasion, but what they want (and actually announced it) is a period of relative quiet – working deterrence – so that Hamas will not launch rockets unless it’s ready for all out war, a period of time they expect to last at least another 3-4 years.

    That kind of thing – a real ceasefire – has worked on the Zsyrian border for almost 40 years (of course the Syrian regime always fired at Israel from within Lebanon, using proxies)

    The reasons they don’t want an invasion I would saya are:

    1) Avoiding international criticism

    2) Avoiding Israeli military casualties. They don’t want their young men killed,

    3) If they reoccupied Gaza, they woudn’t know what to do with it. They don’twant to rule it, and the prospect of turning it ovr to Abbas – if he couuld hold it – isn’t all that appealing. And anyway really Israel does not want Gaza and the West Bank to be ruled by the same people, because they deported a lot of terrorists into Gaza and they don’t want them to be able to travel to the West Bank.

    4) If they occupied Gaza, Hamas, or other terrorists, could just set up shop across the border in Rafah, Egypt, or elsewhere in Sinai next to the Israeli border, and they don’t want to invade any part of Egypt, risking a war and an end to the peace treaty and they don’t want the Egyptians to do it either really because that would bring a big army into the eastern Sinai, and now they really don’t trust Egypt.

    So the goal has been just to get Hamas to stop.

    Now Hamas probably thinks, if things get too bad, or they are afraid of policy changes, they can always get a ceasefire any time they want to.

    Sammy Finkelman (69e89f)

  105. well except for the fact as Malone said in the Untouchables,’if you open the ball on them (Hamas)
    you have to be prepared to go all the way,

    narciso (ee31f1)

  106. The Yom Kippur War is … I don’t know … anything that the Israelis could have done wrong they did? Old women, male and female, at the helm? They were steps within taking Cairo.

    And Damascus. At the time there were several thousand Jews living in Damascus who wanted to leave but were prevented by Assad. I remember the Lubavitcher Rebbe calling on Golda Meir to take Damascus, rescue the Jews, and then dictate terms treaty on Syria. But she was too afraid of upsetting Nixon. And in the Sinai, the Egyptian Third Army was surrounded and could have been starved into surrender, but instead she let them go, on Nixon’s orders.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  107. RE: Burma or Myanmar.

    If people in the State Department had any sense, they would just say Burma. Myanmar was picked by the previous military leaders, and now they got afraid China was getting too close, wanting even to build a naval base, and they reversed policy.

    If the Burmese officials don’t complain (other than in the mildest, pro-forma way) it means they want good relations with the United States.

    If they do complain, it means the previous people are really in charge, and nothing much good will happen.

    It’s an excellent litmus test, and meanwhile if they say Burma the United States government will maintain its self-respect.

    If he says Burma, he has nothing to lose but possible delusions.

    Sammy Finkelman (69e89f)

  108. Comment by Steve57 — 11/17/2012 @ 8:16 am

    Haniyeh can’t stop them from provoking Israel in Gaza. Morsi went there to see if he could get them to tone it down; he couldn’t. Now the MB base and other groups are joining in from Egyptian territory in the Sanai. I guess they’re trying to prove Morsi has lost control of them, too.

    The others are afraid defying whoever is bribing them.

    You know what it looks like:

    1) They want a war
    2) This is because somebody wants to get involved in a war.
    3) The only way this makes sense is if Iran wants to explode an atomic bomb in Israel. (A pr-existting war will not make it look quite n unprovoked.
    4) Iran believes there will be no retaliation.
    5. It will then be established that nuclear deterrence is a delusion, and thethreat of dropping a nuclear bomb can be used by Iran and also other countries.
    BTW Iran will deny that the bomb came from the. It will take a few weeks maybe to prove, or if fact it may be proven it came from North Korea.

    Sammy Finkelman (69e89f)

  109. allied with Hitler in WW2, and they never surrendered or gave up the struggle. They are simply continuing their grandparents’ war.

    Comment by Milhouse — 11/17/2012 @ 7:26 pm

    They never managed to get far. English, Greeks, Americans, Jews, showed them the way things is.

    nk (875f57)

  110. Try again, without typos:

    1) They want a war
    2) This is because somebody wants to get involved in a war.
    3) The only way this makes sense is if Iran wants to explode an atomic bomb in Israel.

    (A pre-existing war will not make it look quite as unprovoked, and that will make a great deal of difference in how it is reacted to)

    4) Iran believes there will be no retaliation.

    Iran will deny that the bomb came from the. It will take a few weeks maybe to prove, or if fact it may be proven it came from North Korea. The CIA will say maybe Al Qaeda did it, or maybe even some anonymous extremists. It could be Iran, but they don’t know..

    China isn’t sure at all there will be no retaliaion, but believes the idea of retaliation any nuclear retaliation will be unanimously condemned by the United Nations Security Council, whether it happens or not.)

    5. It will then be established that nuclear deterrence is a delusion, and the threat of dropping a nuclear bomb can be used by Iran and also other countries.

    Sammy Finkelman (69e89f)

  111. Sammy, Iran will not have time to deny that an atomic bomb came from it. It will have ceased to exist before the microphones are turned on. Israel, even under Bibi, is not Jimmy “the rabbit” Carter’s America.

    nk (875f57)

  112. Machinist @ 3:11 pm,

    Thank you for the link. It’s so nice to see you pop in. I hope you have been well and I hope you will once again provide your consistently thoughtful commentary. I can’t remember why you left….

    Dana (292dcf)

  113. #111

    I’ve been to the far north of Burma and when the locals say “Myanmar” it sounds like “ByaH MaH” because of how their language works.

    The knuckleheads that run the country may get themselves all in a lather over the proper spelling, but in the end it boils down to who is the biggest ass****

    SteveG (831214)

  114. Prayers for Mike Ditka, who suffered a minor stroke today.

    Icy (093576)

  115. If I was an Israeli and I had to hit this target, I just don’t think I’d be feeling too badly about the possibility of collateral damage.

    Gazans watch with pride as Hamas strikes Israel

    They watch with pride as Hamas tries to kill non-combatants. Hmm.

    I’m not saying I wouldn’t aim any less carefully. I’m just saying, maybe I could take it out with a 500lb bomb. But why not use the 1000lb bomb and really make sure. It’s not a long flight from an Israeli airfield to Gaza. Since it’s not fuel critical…

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  116. Thank you, Dana. You are very kind.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  117. Machinist!

    Patterico (8b3905)

  118. 107,Milhouse – The Israelis grow some of the finest tomatoes known to man. And their pruning methods are unique. I grew up next to a Jewish family and Mrs. Chozen could grow and cook with the best of them. I hope they get their land back as they were using it for all the right reasons.

    mg (31009b)

  119. Patterico!

    Sorry I missed you, Sir.

    Machinist (b6f7da)

  120. “They should force Egypt to take Gaza back, then hold Egypt responsible for what happens after that.”

    http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/157984/

    Colonel Haiku (3bae39)

  121. Good grief, no. First of all how exactly do you force a country to annex territory they never counted as theirs in the first place? Second, what does “holding them responsible” mean? That you’ll go to war with them? Then what’s the point of first bringing them right up into striking distance of your heartland? Surely whatever mysterious power can “make” Egypt annex the Strip can also “make” it absorb and resettle the Strip’s population, or as many of it as refuse to accept and acknowledge Israeli rule.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  122. Make Gaza Egypt’s problem… the Israelis have been more than reasonable and accommodating and look what has ensued. Relinquish oversight to Egypt and if they can’t rein Hamas in, then Israel must retaliate with the full and open support of the US.

    When the “jounalists” who cover this ongoing conflict have to pay protection money to Hamas to help ensure personal survival, there is no doubt where the truth resides.

    Colonel Haiku (3bae39)

  123. 126. When the “jounalists” who cover this ongoing conflict have to pay protection money to Hamas to help ensure personal survival, there is no doubt where the truth resides.

    Comment by Colonel Haiku — 11/18/2012 @ 9:48 am

    Actually the go there with eyes wide open knowing that they’re going to propagandize for Hamas. Hamas, like Hezbollah, usually confiscates the passports of the journalists and threaten journalists who don’t produce stories that favor their side. Still, they have to pay protection money.

    You literally have to be a suicidal fool to support Hamas.

    Italian peace activist killed in Gaza

    We all know that “peace activist” is left-speak for pro-Palestinian and anti-Israeli.

    Mahmoud Abbas, the Palestinian president, strongly condemned the murder as he conveyed his condolences to Arrigoni’s family.

    “This heinous crime is far from the traditions of our people, who are struggling for freedom and independence,” he said.

    No it isn’t, you lying old bastard. This is exactly in line with your traditions. Like when the ummah delighted in the slaughter of schoolchildren in Beslan.

    Ehab al-Ghussein, ministry spokesman, said he was killed “in an awful way.” He said the kidnappers planned from the beginning to kill him, not to trade him for captives.

    A ministry statement denounced the killing as “a crime that does not reflect the values, morals, religion and customs” of the people of Gaza.

    These people ought to be writing comedies. This was a crime that displays their values, morals, religion and customs.

    What other people raise their children to be suicide bombers or put them in harms way hoping to get some sort of made-for-the-BBC image of their own kid getting shot while “just throwing rocks” while some Hamas “fighter” stands behind him shooting at the Israelis with an AK?

    Who does this?

    Palestinian woman tries to bomb the hospital who saved her life.

    Snopes.com-True: Dr. Arieh Eldad on Burn Victim Turned Suicide Bomber

    How hard is it to believe that a people that so willingly and cold-heartedly sacrifices its children and tries to repay people who saved their lives by murdering them would slaughter some gullible stranger?

    You know what else is part of their culture and values? These defensive expressions of self-concern after they those among them commits an atrocity.

    Release of Salafi prisoners

    In a video posted on YouTube on Thursday, the group said it had taken him hostage in order to secure the release of an unspecified number of their members who had been arrested by the security forces in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.

    It said it would execute him if their demands were not met by 5:00 pm (1400 GMT) on Friday.

    The Al Jazeera correspondent said: “The little that we do know about why he was kidnapped in Gaza has come from Youtube video that those responsible posted online.”

    “In that video they said they would not release him until all of Salafi prisoners who are currently in jail in Gaza, are freed. They also called for release of one of the main Salafi leaders. They said they would not free him until those people were freed from jail. That seems to be the motive behind the case.”

    “We kidnapped the Italian prisoner Vittorio and we call on the Haniya government … to release all our prisoners,” it said, referring to Hamas premier Ismail Haniya.

    “If you don’t respond quickly to our demands, within 30 hours from 11:00 am (0800 GMT) on April 14, we will execute this prisoner,” it said.

    The poor, naive fool went to Gaza thinking “I’m going to help the Palestinians against their oppressors” not knowing they’re at each others throats at least as much if not more as they are at the Israelis. As Hamas said, the kidnappers never intended to trade this guy for prisoners. Because both sides know that Hamas would never trade prisoners for some worthless outsider. Hell, Hamas wouldn’t trade prisoners for some worthless insider.

    Yet the west-hating suicidal left supports these people. I wonder when exactly the shock of reality hit this pampered product of Euro-socialism.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  124. 34.I was serious, Milwaukee. You end a war by taking away the enemy’s ability to live, let alone fight. Berlin, Dresden, Tokyo, Hiroshima, Nagasaki?

    Comment by nk — 11/16/2012 @ 11:42 pm

    There are plenty of Israelis who get it, nk.

    http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-EdContributors/Article.aspx?id=292466

    A decisive conclusion is necessary
    By GILAD SHARON

    There is no middle path here – either the Gazans and their infrastructure are made to pay the price, or we reoccupy the entire Gaza Strip.

    …A strong opening isn’t enough, you also have to know how to finish – and finish decisively. If it isn’t clear whether the ball crossed the goal-line or not, the goal isn’t decisive. The ball needs to hit the net, visible to all. What does a decisive victory sound like? A Tarzan-like cry that lets the entire jungle know in no uncertain terms just who won, and just who was defeated.

    To accomplish this, you need to achieve what the other side can’t bear, can’t live with, and our initial bombing campaign isn’t it.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  125. If Israel really wanted a decisive win, it has an easy way to do that, without a ground invasion. Simply turn off the electricity and water, and announce that they will not be turned on until all the rocketeers are turned over. The usual suspects, including not just the UN but also the Israeli press and judiciary, will shout “collective punishment”, but a government that meant business would ignore them. Unfortunately Israel does not have such a government.

    Milhouse (15b6fd)

  126. Milhouse @129, they’d still have to do a limited ground invasion to control the Egypt-Gaza border.

    Steve57 (7a880e)

  127. You realize therefore significantly on the subject of this subject, made me personally believe it from a lot of various angles. Its like women and men don’t seem to be interested unless it is something to accomplish with Lady gaga! Your individual stuffs great. All the time take care of it up!

    cats (21b25d)


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