Patterico's Pontifications

1/7/2012

Romneynomics vs Santorunomics

Filed under: 2012 Election — Karl @ 9:17 am



[Posted by Karl]

Rick Santorum is looking to distinguish himself from his GOP rivals, particularly Mitt Romney, on taxes:

If there’s any doubt that insurgent GOP presidential candidate Rick Santorum is gunning for the mantle of blue-collar conservative, just take a gander at his tax plan:  Families with children would receive triple the current tax exemption, and companies that manufacture goods in America would not be taxed at all.

The populist proposals, which set him apart from his rivals, are key components of Santorum’s “faith, family and freedom” agenda that resonated in Iowa  and which he now hopes will draw blue-collar voter support in New Hampshire.

“I believe in cutting taxes. I believe in balancing budgets. … But I also believe we as Republicans have to look at those who are not doing well in our society by just cutting taxes and balancing budgets,” Santorum said Tuesday after coming within eight votes of front-runner Mitt Romney in the Iowa caucus.

As we will see, there’s far less difference between Santorunomics and Romneynomics than the former Pennsylvania Senator has tried to create with rhetorical jabs at supply-siders.  The differences fall mostly into the two categories identified above.

First, he wants a pro-natalist tax policy in the mold of economist Jacob Stein.  That’s unsurprising, given Santorum’s generally Catholic approach to public policy.  It appeals directly to middle-class families, which is good campaign politics — on the surface, anyway.  On closer examination, there would be budgetary and political obstacles to passing this type of proposal.  Moreover, it is far from clear that this tax policy would actually do anything about falling fertility rates, which are part of human development in the modern age.  That development, spurred in no small part by respecting innovation and entrepreneurial drive, may decrease fertility rates, but it also yields enormous benefits for families.

Second, Santorum supports a hugely differential corporate tax rate of 17.5 percent for all but manufacturers, who would pay zero.  Again, this is unsurprising from someone campaigning as the grandson of a coal miner.  Again, the surface politics are good, given the importance of working-class voters, particularly white working-class voters, to the electoral calculations of both major parties this year.  However, the Tax Foundation calls it possibly the worst idea of any of the Republican candidates, for several reasons.

Indeed, the Tax Foundation gives Santorunomics a grade of “D+”.   Unfortunately, Romneynomics does not grade out much better, earning a “C-” from the group.  The, er, bright spot here is that either would be better than Obamanomics, which by their criteria should flunk.

–Karl

116 Responses to “Romneynomics vs Santorunomics”

  1. Ding!

    Karl (5a613f)

  2. Er…think you meant to write “bright” spot in that last sentence, Karl!

    Colonel Haiku (8e3ab6)

  3. Indeed.

    Karl (5a613f)

  4. Perhaps he meant “blight.”

    But it is VITAL to continue to drum into people who much WORSE “Four Worse Years” will be. That should get people to the polls. My fear is that all the infighting will get people to stay home, which will result in a second term for these people.

    Simon Jester (69e6e5)

  5. I was just going to write the “blight” spot would be Obamanomics, Simon.

    Colonel Haiku (8e3ab6)

  6. so Rick wants to eliminate taxes on condom makers?

    he’s so progressive our Rick is

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  7. Well this closes the issue for me. Vat tax Romany, versus lets eff the current grease the cornholes up some more Santorum.

    None of the above. In fact, take the ballot and cram it bozo(GOP).

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  8. I understand the possible downsides of that policy plank, but it is really near beer.

    narciso (87e966)

  9. it looks like Wall Street Romney just might pull a win out of New Hampshire after all Drudge says, referring to “polls”

    but Drudge has been wrong before

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  10. As William Goldman said about the movies, pikachu,
    ‘no one knows anything’ really.

    narciso (87e966)

  11. Yes Mr. narciso but the only one in the race with a message message is Wall Street Romney who says hey look at me I’m electy lecty lectable I look like a catalog model plus John McCain says I’m the best one!

    Not a particularly rousing message, but it’s a message.

    What’s Gingrich’s message? Romney lies lies lies and we should fire all the janitors and I knew Reagan kinda and then also I helped balance the budget and hey what’s up with black people and food stamps anyway?

    I thought he was smarter than this but I’m beginning to suspect he’s on Perry’s level as far as the candidate skills go.

    And Santorum is too extreme.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  12. [Santorum] also plans to reduce taxes on capital gains and dividends from the current 15 percent to 12 percent. That seems almost inconsequential and certainly timid compared to most of the other candidates who are proposing to eliminate these taxes all together.

    At which point California will raise their cap gains tax from 10 percent to 13 percent!

    It’s win-win!

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  13. Well you are one step away from Ctluthu’s dragging the state under you, so that can’t be helped, they
    actually voted for ‘Eight Track’ Jerry Brown.

    narciso (87e966)

  14. I guess bluntness in order. Santorum is a waste of time, and time is short.

    SarahW (b0e533)

  15. yes yes I don’t see anyone busily marshaling a mandate to do anything near on the scale of what our pitiful little country desperately needs doing

    certainly not rinky dinky lifeydoodle doo Santorum

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  16. a natalist tax policy

    oh do get on with your bad self

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  17. None of the above. In fact, take the ballot and cram it bozo(GOP).
    Comment by gary gulrud — 1/7/2012 @ 9:40 am

    — Ah, that’s our gary! As helpful as never.

    Icy (5239d5)

  18. he’s a brilliant man! Just ask him.

    Colonel Haiku (8e3ab6)

  19. Tim Tebow is not ultra-religious Santorum is.

    No thanks to Santorum.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  20. I think what Mr. Gary is reluctant to embrace is the ever-growing mound of evidence that the US presidency has become a redoubt of feckless whores and cowards. He still has hope that we might produce a person of quality to hold that position. A respectable person, and honest.

    That’s not gonna happen anytime soon.

    This is the takeaway from Obama’s election and it’s most certainly the takeaway from the astoundingly weak and impressively silly slate of candidates Team R has drawn to their banner this year.

    What this means for people concerned about their pathetic little country’s pitiful plight is that the Congress must be asked to display a quality of leadership and a fortitude that it has rarely done in the past.

    Hint: Boehner and McConnell aren’t the men for this job.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  21. Curious how happyfeet had no problem with Right Said Fred’s pro-life stance.

    Icy (5239d5)

  22. oh. It’s also the takeaway from Team R’s recent nomination of Meghan’s coward daddy.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  23. Aww, now see what you did, feets? Doh has visions of lifeydoodles dancing in his head!

    Icy (5239d5)

  24. Obama 2012!!

    MayBee (081489)

  25. Part of human development in the modern age?

    That’s the non-explanation I hear over and over.

    A lot of things characterize the modern world – socialist government policies (China being the most extreme example), access to birth control and abortion, pervasive rejection of fatherhood especially in urban areas, acceptance of feminist negative attitudes toward motherhood, rising homosexuality, lack of hope for the future, lack of desire to sacrifice for the next generation, anachronistic fear of overpopulation, etc.

    Your easy dismissal of what is actually the end of the modern age is a cop-out. If the modern trend is not changed then western civilization is over. It’s already past he point of no return in Europe.

    You need to understand that self-destruction is NOT development.

    Amphipolis (e01538)

  26. hopey and changey
    empty platitude left them
    hopeless destitute

    Colonel Haiku (8e3ab6)

  27. here is a singings by one Mr. Tom Felton, who so brilliantly assayed the character of Draco Malfoy in a noted series of films recently

    catchy!

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  28. beaming upturned face
    Imperial President
    He is so special

    Colonel Haiku (8e3ab6)

  29. oh. assayed is wrong word but I can’t think just now what it was I was reaching for

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  30. Romney and Santorum will not get my vote. They are liberal Republicans. The GOP will lose the White House this November election.

    m (aa7950)

  31. Santorum is Huckabee just a lot more constipated and judgey.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  32. 9, 21. “downsides”

    There are no upsides. Gay marriage is on the table in part because we subsidize families.

    The tax code gets more complicated, costing $50 Billion a year in compliance costs just to keep up with the changes.

    The Right cannot unite on social issues, it’s friggin insane to hope. Thats what states rights are for, but Santorum thinks that would be to inefficient and unjust.

    Santorum looks goofy, sounds goofy and by golly, on close inspection, he’s a goof!

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  33. _______________________________________________

    and companies that manufacture goods in America would not be taxed at all.

    That will appeal to populist, pro-America, anti-China instincts that are beginning to rise and starting to cross the two major ideological boundaries. In various ways, such responses can be overly simplistic or full of do-as-I-say-not-what-I-do phoniness (ie, people running to the store and buying the best, cheapest items possible, regardless of where they’re manufactured), but human nature is human nature. And so much of America’s production line currently is based in the People’s Republic of China, a society run by politicos who are typical of what’s found in amoral, leftist, pity-party regimes throughout the world. IOW, they think like a slightly more extreme version of urban America, or a mix of Detroit/NYC/SF/Oakland/LA and Venezuela/Argentina.

    In light of the foolishness of the Occupy-Wall-Street crowd, and liberals (and increasingly everyone) grumbling about corporate America and the wealthy not paying higher taxes, I don’t understand why right-leaning observers, including any of the Republican candidates, haven’t cited things like the following?

    CBSnews.com, March 2011:

    Our government is in knots over ways to lower the federal budget deficit. Well, what if we told you we found a pot of money – over $60 billion a year – that could be used to help out?

    That bundle is tax money not coming in to the IRS from American corporations. One major way they avoid paying the tax man is by parking their profits overseas. They’ll tell you they’re forced to do that because the corporate 35 percent tax rate is high in relation to other countries, and indeed it seems the tax code actually encourages companies to move their businesses out of the country.

    Companies searching out tax havens is nothing new: in the 80s and 90s there was an exodus to Bermuda and the Cayman Islands, where there are no taxes at all. When President Obama threatened to clamp down on tax dodging, many companies decided to leave the Caribbean. But instead of coming back home, they went to safer havens like Switzerland.

    Several of these companies came to a small, quaint medieval town in Switzerland call Zug. Hans Marti, who heads Zug’s economic development office, showed off the nearby snow-covered mountains. But Zug’s main selling point isn’t a view of the Alps: he told [Leslie] Stahl the taxes are somewhere between 15 and 16 percent.

    “And in the United States it’s 35 percent,” Stahl pointed out.

    “I know. It’s half price,” Marti said.

    …Congress tried to put a stop to that with a law passed in 2004, mandating that any company that wanted to move offshore would still have to pay the 35 percent. But because of loopholes in the tax code, companies can substantially lower their taxes by moving chunks of their businesses to their foreign subsidiaries.

    “I think many companies in the U.S. would like to keep the jobs in the U.S. if they could, but they also need to keep their shareholders happy. And they are in the U.S. in a corporate tax nightmare because it’s the highest tax rate in the world,”Boitelle explained.

    With Japan slated to lower its rate in April, the U.S. will soon have the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world.

    “We are dealing with a tax system that is a dinosaur,” Cisco CEO John Chambers told Stahl.

    One CEO who would talk to us was Chambers. Cisco is the giant high tech company headquartered in San Jose, Calif. He says our tax rate is insane. It’s forcing companies into these maneuvers, especially when many other industrialized countries including Canada are busy lowering their tax rates in order to lure our companies and our jobs away.

    “Every other government in the world has realized that the U.S. has it wrong. They’re saying, ‘I’m going to have lower taxes, period.’ That’s what you see all across Western Europe, that’s what you see in Asia in the developed countries,” Chambers said.

    Mark (31bbb6)

  34. nitwit policies
    put nation on hell-bent course
    Path to Perdition

    Colonel Haiku (8e3ab6)

  35. 18. Note li’l buddy Romney and Santorum are the two under current consideration within the context of Karl’s post.

    We know Santorum will fail to even make a number of ballots selecting delegates.

    Paul will be running 3rd. party and taking say 10% of the Right with him.

    So looking ahead to SC, lets’ just agree to axe Santorum, dispose of the body and move on.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  36. Santorum is about as far as you can get from the Tea Party’s “cut, cap and balance” agenda, and most of the way back to W’s policies. The contest has devolved to the New Establishment (Romney) vs the Old Establishment (Santorum/W/HW/Dole etc). All that’s missing here is the “thousand points of light”.

    And he combines the message with harsh moralism, which the Tea Party rejected as a distraction to the main game: fixing the budget disaster without taxes.

    Santorum will have the shortest runup of any notRomney so far. He’s going to have a bad time in the two debates over the next 24 hours, as everyone under the sun asks him why he hates gays so, and why he thinks civil law should follow religious teachings.

    Morning Joe (563f77)

  37. and again with the sock.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  38. Santorum doesn’t even believe in free trade cause Jesus never signed a free trade agreement plus he’s a huge whore for unions

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  39. It’s not really tax rates anyway. You could raise taxes in some respects and get economic growth IF you cut tens of thousands of harmful and useless regulations at the same time. Repealing Oxley-Sarbanes for a start. Simplifying, streamlining and in some cases (e.g. critical transportation and energy projects) eliminating Environmental Impact Statements. Drastically curtailing the ability of unaffected citizens to speculatively enjoin business activity under environmental and similar laws. Scale back wetlands law to cover only real wetlands. Allow oil and gas development off-shore. Build nuclear.

    If you want to protect against environmental rape, use large fines and billion dollar bonds to punish the careless rather than useless laws preventing the unknowable, that btw give safe harbor to scoundrels who comply but shave other corners.

    The focus on taxes is a mistake, since taxes don’t affect activity that never happens.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  40. Angela Davis told me last year in a speech that Zionism and Islamophobia are the source of all the trouble in the world, so the subject of this post matters not a whit.

    She’s a perfesser supposedly and should know what she’s talking about.

    Don’t ask, I had to attend.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  41. The nominee will be Romney or Gingrich. There is no other choice and stop squirming.

    Choose:

    Romney [ ]

    Gingrich [ ]

    Obama [ ]

    Kevin M (563f77)

  42. what Santorum does is say hey if you have a dollar to invest we’re gonna use the power of the state to dictate that you’ll likely get a better return on that money if you invest in union-whore dominated manufacturing as opposed to say an unionized software service company

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  43. Gingrich has all but lost me with his silly attacks on Bain Capital… a nasty Fannie Mae whore like Gingrich has no business questioning how other people make money

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  44. I assume you meant “non-unionized software service company”

    Kevin M (563f77)

  45. She’s a sweet black angel, daley. The Glimmer Twins said so.

    Colonel Haiku (8e3ab6)

  46. are there unionized software services companies?

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  47. “Gingrich has all but lost me with his silly attacks on Bain Capital”

    Mr. Feets – Subliminal Gingrich message – I won’t cut government spending like that mean Mr. Romney because I don’t want to put anyone out of their jobs.

    Message Fail.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  48. Gingrich is saying nothing that Obama won’t. But yes, it’s unseemly. Neither one of them should be talking about how the other made money.

    And a trust baby never should criticize someone for that.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  49. I see what you mean here is a piggy piggy union whore IT thing and here is another

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  50. I didn’t get that message Mr. daley I got the message that Gingrich is desperate desperate desperate and that as president when he’s desperate he’ll become a ditzy Palinesque populist in a heartbeat.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  51. 34. Again tweaking the margins is hopeless especially when it is counterproductive to your social agenda.

    OTOH, just finding more revenue via the VAT to make up for no capital gains is the same old carnival pea game.

    Romany is not pro small business, he doesn’t want to reduce their costs but just make them more vulnerable to venture capitalists like himself.

    The reality is he will go with the Progressive flow.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  52. ______________________________________________

    as everyone under the sun asks him why he hates gays so, and why he thinks civil law should follow religious teachings.

    You mean everyone with leftist sentiments, or everyone regardless of their biases? IOW, are you favoring the idea that the midpoint of the cultural spectrum has gotten so liberal, that merely opposing ideas along the lines of same-sex marriage, or merely believing that current boundaries should not be stretched beyond “civil unions,” is tantamount to expressing non-mainstream or distracting preferences? If so, then ultra-liberals similar to Obama may not be as ultra-liberal as they once were.

    BTW, some of the greatest problems in this society today are not related solely to tax rates or purely to the issue of the government bureaucracy. Various forms of dysfunction, including high rates of illegitimacy or single women raising children — which makes it tougher to maintain decent household budgets — or lousy conditions in public schools (high rates of delinquency, misbehavior, underachievement and dropping out), can be traced to corroded social-cultural standards, and not purely economic ones.

    Mark (31bbb6)

  53. Good post, Karl.

    Santorum has a lack of experience to manage this incredibly huge government, too. Can he do it? It’s quite risky to take that gamble. Santorum is better than Romney on ideology (for one thing, Santorum is more of a straight shooter and far less shameless a flip flopper), but Romney takes the edge on experience.

    And if I think that, I suspect almost everyone would think that. I can’t stand Romney.

    Newt has a big mouth, but he’s a lot better than either of the other two mentioned.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  54. 44. Perspective feets, perspective.

    Bain’s only business was making money, consultants only business is making money, ditchdiggers only business is making money.

    The question is what are the candidates true intentions for change, and to what extent are the changes they propose within their power to effect.

    Gingrich, Romany, Huntsman and Perry have a track record. Santorum and Paul have panty stains.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  55. Ditzy palinesque populist

    Translation-He will speak the truth about how evil and malevolent the dem policies are in regards to black people.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  56. So, what happens to the Republican Party if Romney gets the nomination “because he’s electable” and he loses like McCain? Does the Tea Party bolt, leaving three major parties? Or two, missing the Republicans?

    Or do we wait til next time (assuming Obama leaves us a next time), and then go through this again? No doubt with the same lame result.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  57. I have no problem at all with what Bain did or does. That’s just capitalism, yippie ki-yay, mf, I say.

    That Newt is desperate is the charitable interpretation.

    He might just could be ignorant, having lived such a narrow narrow life.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  58. Mark, I mean saying that you view homosexuality as you do bestiality, as Santorum has. As a plain perversion that is in need of suppression. Because anyone who professes that is going to lose the general election. If my choices are Romney (who I dislike) or Santorum (whom I despise), I go with Romney in a flash. If it is Obama vs Santorum, I start thinking about how a Texas Free State sounds like a better idea.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  59. Mark, I mean saying that *IF* you view homosexuality as you do bestiality, as Santorum has…

    Kevin M (563f77)

  60. There’s no reason to have genial stammering half-wit Perry in the debates anymore I don’t think. It’s time to start talking about ideas.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  61. 40. Not tax rates, no. But the cost of regulation to commerce including tax compliance is $500 Billion a year. A flat tax trims 10% minimum of that cost.

    Moreover, the corruption bound up in the tax code, e.g., the money laundering of giving breaks and subsidies returned to the pols, wink wink, is incalculable.

    Tax reform is at least as easy as tort reform, sunsetting of Bureau regulation, letting go 200,000 Postal workers, etc.

    The temporization, “If we don’t fix entitlements, nothing else matters” is a cynical excuse to do absolutely nothing.

    Buck up, hayseeds, we know best, back on your heads.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  62. It;s not that he’s inarticulate, it’s that he’s floating belly-up that has me wanting Perry out of the water.

    Establishment Romney, Rebel Gingrich and Moralist Santorum pretty much make up the wings of the Party, with RonPaul misrepresenting the libertarians.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  63. misrepresenting to the point of malpractice

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  64. 61. Wrong, somebody will need to separate Newt and Gypsy Princess and staunch the bleeding.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  65. Paul will be running 3rd. party and taking say 10% of the Right with him.
    — No, he won’t run 3rd party. Money to your favorite charity if he does.

    So looking ahead to SC, lets’ just agree to axe Santorum, dispose of the body and move on.
    — Let’s not and say we didn’t.

    Icy (5239d5)

  66. Establishment Romney, Rebel Gingrich and Moralist Santorum pretty much make up the wings of the Party, with RonPaul misrepresenting the libertarians.

    — Ron Paul represents the bat-wings of the party.

    Icy (5239d5)

  67. Paul will be running 3rd. party and taking say 10% of the Right with him.

    It’s not clear who Paul would take as an (LP?) candidate. He attracts the young/anti-globo folks, the peacemongers, some libertarians (not me), Scientologists and the generally weird.

    Not at all who these folks would normally vote for, or even if they would normally vote.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  68. not at all _clear_ who …

    Kevin M (563f77)

  69. Of course, if Ron Paul were a 3rd party candidate, a Paul/Kucinich ticket wouldn’t be out of the question. They could share clothes.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  70. Hunting is very disgusting but they have a right to do that.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  71. ___________________________________________

    As a plain perversion that is in need of suppression. Because anyone who professes that is going to lose the general election.

    In terms of someone using “bestiality” as a point of reference, I don’t disagree with your assumption that will make many people flinch or raise an eyebrow. But even without that, we’ve reached a point where most of us have become so desensitized and dumbed down that, for example, the notion of a sitting president getting “Monica Lewinsky-ed” in the Oval Office — and living happily ever after to tell the tale — no longer is shocking and unthinkable. So in today’s time? Ho-hum. How nice.

    The difference between now and only around 16 years ago is reflected in a movie made in 1995, referring to “The American President” starring Michael Douglas and Annette Benning. There’s a scene in that film where the main female character tells the character of the widowed president that the American public would never accept him if they learned he had a girlfriend. In 2012, that script seems quaint and old-fashioned.

    Pan to the present, and we now have President “Goddamn America” sitting in the White House.

    Lucky us. We’ve become so greatly evolved and so much more sophisticated—like a bigger version of a Banana Republic.

    Mark (31bbb6)

  72. 66. Try to keep up li’l buddy:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/06/ron-paul-2012_n_1190427.html

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  73. 68. Point taken. Libertarians do make up a significant fraction of that 10% of the electorate who are party switchers.

    But he is getting 20% support in NH semi-closed primary.

    That will pretty much evaporate in the South but bet he gets his share in the West.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  74. It would be a good thing to have more manufacturing jobs here. I buy almsot nothing but New Balance shoes because they are in fact almsot exclusively assembl;ed here. And more companies shoudl use that tack as marketing’ buty a quaulity product made by your fellow citizens. Heck, I pay a premium for those shoes, but it’s worht it.

    Ultimately it depends on how you define maunfactured in the USA. Is a car assembled in Ontario of component parts made in the USA qualify? Does a car assembled in Michigan of component parts made elsewhere qualify? What about foreign companies with planst in the US? Frankly that seems like an unworkable gimmick that would have manufacturers playing games to try to so qualify.

    Bugg (ea1809)

  75. The offer stands, Skipper.

    Icy (5239d5)

  76. The problem with that video, is that Bain far from the worse offenders, it’s had some sizable successes, Sealy, Dominos, Clear Channel, et al,
    some like AmPad as GS didn’t go off that well.
    There is a real issue of TBTF institutions, although
    the element of govt policies, exerted through the CRA and carried out by Fannie and Freddie.

    narciso (87e966)

  77. 68. Rasmussen currently is going with 35% Republican affliation, 33% Democrat. I think the Republican figure is ridiculously high but who knows it may work for them rather than attempting to represent Indies reliably in their calculations.

    Important point is Dead Meat can’t count on more than 42-43% of the electorate.

    Rasmussen has it as a dead heat for Romney at 42%, the generic beats Obama 47% to 43.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  78. The best tax system is one that does not pursue social policy.

    Period.

    [note: released from moderation. –Stashiu]

    ODB (dcf97e)

  79. In IA the undecideds were 60% a couple weeks prior, like 40% the night before.

    Whatever, they broke entirely for NotRomany, his poll average was 23% and finished under 25%.

    The NH debates are crucial and Perry or TBNL at convention could still get the nomination.

    More likely if SC is to be believed Romany could break the 40% count of delegates and everybody fills their sh*tter around the third ballot and goes unanimous.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  80. Interestingly pretzelogical.

    Mark your scorecards, fans.

    Colonel Haiku (8e3ab6)

  81. “I was wrong… again.”

    Comment by gary gulrud – 1/22/12 @2:26AM

    Colonel Haiku (8e3ab6)

  82. “Mark, I mean saying that *IF* you view homosexuality as you do bestiality, as Santorum has…”

    Kevin M – If you are referring to what I think you are, this is just another Santorum myth perpetuated by the left.

    http://bigjournalism.com/adelgado/2012/01/05/did-santorum-really-equate-homosexuality-to-bestiality-actually-no/

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  83. …a movie made in 1995, referring to “The American President”…

    Why wait 16 years? In 1997(!) a movie called “Wag the Dog” had a President having sex in the Oval Office with a Girl Scout troop, and then deflecting the outrage by starting a war in Albania.

    In real life, the very next year, Clinton opened a war against Serbia to free ethnic Albanians in Kosovo. This happened just as the House was considering impeachment proceedings against Clinton and just before the 1998 midterm elections, which the Democrats unexpectedly won (leading to Gingrich’s exit, btw).

    Kevin M (563f77)

  84. 81. If your plan is to pick the world of possibilities excluded by my picks, its a good bet.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  85. “OTOH, just finding more revenue via the VAT to make up for no capital gains is the same old carnival pea game.”

    gary – I don’t understand the discussion about Romney and a VAT. Apart from a WSJ interview where a reporter asked him if he would be open to it and Romney said he would consider it, it’s not on his website or something I believe he’s actively promoting.

    Please correct me if I’m wrong.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  86. But he is getting 20% support in NH semi-closed primary.

    But anyone can register Republican or independent at any time, and with no Dem primary and (I think) nothing down-ballot on the purely presidential Republican primary, it’s anyone’s guess just what the percentage of actual Republicans is.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  87. I read a good point recently.

    Obama is laying off 80,000 soldiers. Romney’s layoff record is less of a liability now.

    But you gotta love how the Romney fans switch from ‘electability is all’ to ‘conservative arguments are the only ones you can make’ when outsourcing is mentioned.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  88. daley,

    Even the “offical” quote implies that he views homosexuality as highly abnormal and dismisses same-sex couples out of hand as illegitimate.

    It is arguable, of course, that he doesn’t view it the same as bestiality. And it is arguable he does.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  89. Obama is laying off 80,000 soldiers. Romney’s layoff record is less of a liability now.

    Too bad he’s not doing the same in the Departments of Education, Commerce, Energy, HUD, Agriculture, Labor, TSA, NLRB, BATF …

    Kevin M (563f77)

  90. Santorum is a social conservative; fiscal conservatism is just an add-on. Romney is probably the opposite. Looking back at Reagan, I believe he was more like Romney than Santorum. If I recall correctly, Reagan signed legislation legalizing abortion in California, but later became pro-life when running for president.

    norcal (cd7f37)

  91. Oh, hell, I’d forgotten all about Huntsman. He’s still running for the John Anderson slot, right?

    Kevin M (563f77)

  92. “Too bad he’s not doing the same in the Departments of Education, Commerce, Energy, HUD, Agriculture, Labor, TSA, NLRB, BATF …

    Comment by Kevin M ”

    Yeah, let’s hope somehow Perry makes an ass out of me by somehow becoming viable again.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  93. “It is arguable, of course, that he doesn’t view it the same as bestiality. And it is arguable he does.”

    Kevin M – Only he knows his view. My point is that the pull quote typically attributed to him regarding this is almost always out of context and distorted. There is no reason to the continuing distortion.

    It’s like the perpetuation of the Gingrich death bed divorce papers myth.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  94. 85. No I’ve nothing more solid than what he is open to, but in the era of Mitt Romney tomorrow agrees with Mitt Romney today it clarifies the possibilities open to that hypothetical individual.

    The Establishment, e.g., with Mitch Stuck.with.the.Ditz Daniels in a cabinet position, needs revenues because Congress can’t cut spending.

    Business revenues have to be cut to spur growth yet we already have the Bush cuts and SS cuts in place.

    Interest rates will be heading higher as nobody believes a fix can be found for 40% deflation and the EU will boot Greece, Portugal and Hungary and save the euro.

    At that point the euro will be like 1.20 cents US but rapidly reflate with the carrion gone.

    What’s he going to do but raise taxes except by the most invisible means available.

    Remember he’s got genius Sununu in his left ear, Mr. Compromise and Break the Read My Lips Pledge.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  95. it’s astounding how enfeebling just three years of Obama has been for our now gravely sick little country

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  96. Byron York has a column up saying Newt tanked because voters didn’t think his calling Princess a liar ‘presidential’.

    Yet we elected a flim-flam artist who flipped off his debate opponent, a woman, and implied the VP Repugnant a pig.

    John Thompson says “a man without a temper isn’t worth his salt”. Guess we deserve whatever we get.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  97. You can put lipstick on Sununu and it will look even worse.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  98. _______________________________________________

    Even the “offical” quote implies that he views homosexuality as highly abnormal and dismisses same-sex couples out of hand as illegitimate.

    Kevin, are you bothered not so much over whether Santorum is giving a fundamentalist spin to that controversy, as much as you’re bothered that he’s not a flat-out “centrist” by the standards of today? Or standards where increasingly in order to be labeled a good “moderate,” one has to somewhat approve the idea of voters recognizing same-sex marriages, and where in order to be a good liberal, one has to heartily approve that same-sex marriages — if need be — be mandated by the legislature or court system, the public be damned?

    What next? A new version of “centrism” where one must heartily support same-sex marriage, and a new version of “progressivism,” where one must heartily support polygamy or open marriages?

    It’s interesting that all of this is occurring against the backdrop of countries like Egypt in the Middle East experiencing a large majority of people pulling the lever for pro-Sharia-law fundamentalists. Even more interesting is that many liberals in the Western world appear to be less bothered by that than the way far more conservatives (including me) are responding. The irony is so thick, that even a sharp knife can’t slice through it.

    Mark (31bbb6)

  99. As a Reaganite, I defer to Art Laffer… who enthusiastically endorses Newt:

    What Reaganite Wouldn’t Listen to Economic Genius Art Laffer?

    Reaganite Republican (99f6b1)

  100. I didn’t get that message Mr. daley I got the message that Gingrich is desperate desperate desperate and that as president when he’s desperate he’ll become a ditzy Palinesque populist in a heartbeat.

    Do you know who wouldn’t become a “ditzy Palinesque populist”, as you put it? Palin, that’s who. If she could be prevailed on to jump in and help her party and country at its hour of need, she could inspire people with the hope that something can still be done to stop us falling down the cliff.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  101. she could not do that Mr. Milhouse… the polls she read when deciding to run or not said as much

    And she knows it.

    She can run run rudolph Sarah save the christmas from now until the cows come home.

    But our president she will never be.

    It’s a thing.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  102. 101. As VDH says she will have decades yet to ‘do something’.

    Again, we’ll get the POTUS we deserve.

    An if you look up you might see the cliff on your way. The first stop is a doozy.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  103. It’s like the perpetuation of the Gingrich death bed divorce papers myth.

    You know how to hurt a guy.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  104. It;s not that he’s inarticulate, it’s that he’s floating belly-up that has me wanting Perry out of the water.

    He’s not dead yet. Give him a chance; he could still revive in South Carolina, and at this point he and Huntsman are the only decent candidates left. He seems to have finally got the hang of this debating business recently.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  105. Santorum is a big government guy.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  106. Santorum just wants to get his finger on the gay genocide button

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  107. He’s not dead yet.

    No, it’s just a flesh wound.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  108. Frankly that seems like an unworkable gimmick that would have manufacturers playing games to try to so qualify.

    Big-government politicians have a conceit that nobody is smarter than they are, and won’t find the loopholes.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R. (c56ad0)

  109. Yes, that’s possibly so, but why is it Russia and China and India, are building things head over fist, while it is impossible to do the most basic
    industrial project,

    narciso (87e966)

  110. Remember he’s got genius Sununu in his left ear, Mr. Compromise and Break the Read My Lips Pledge.

    That’s Sununu Sr, the ex-senator’s father, right? It’s amazing to consider that he’s something like the sixth-most-intelligent person in the world, and yet he could get Bush Sr to make such boneheaded moves as breaking the tax pledge and nominating Souter.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  111. To those who support abortion in the case of incest.

    I was not aware there was an brother on sister or brother on brother epidemic?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  112. I meant Sister on Sister epidemic.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  113. she could not do that Mr. Milhouse… the polls she read when deciding to run or not said as much

    How do you know the polls had anything to do with it? Polls are a stupid way to decide these things; every week they say something different. They’re no better than tea leaves, and at least if you read tea leaves you’ve had a nice cup of tea, which is always a good thing.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  114. “The era of small government is over.”

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  115. I don’t know why she has decided to stay out, but the fact that she challenged the establishment in resigning from the oil commission, then the sitting
    Republican Gov, and the two term Democrat Knowles, principle counts more than any momentary popularity.

    narciso (87e966)


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