Perry off VA primary ballot; GOP Clown Car wreck (Update: Newt’s off)
[Posted by Karl]
In the lexicon of Rick Perry, “Oops!”
Republican presidential candidate Rick Perry failed to submit enough valid signatures to qualify for the Virginia primary ballot, state GOP officials said Friday evening.
Perry’s campaign told state election officials it had submitted 11,911 signatures, but a Virginia Republican familiar with the situation said that the Texas governor did not submit the required 10,000.
***
They have not examined Gingrich’s signatures yet, but expected to do so by late Friday night.
Candidates had until 5 p.m. to collect 10,000 signatures from across the state, including 400 from each congressional district.
Things may not be looking much better for Newt, who submitted only 11,050 signatures. Bachmann, Huntsman, and Santorum failed to submit any signatures, potentially leaving this as a Mitt Romney vs Ron Paul matchup. Do we all get to point and laugh at those who claim organization doesn’t matter any more? The practical effect, as GOP fundraiser/consultant Nathan Wurtzel notes, is that the Virginia primary will drop in relevance relative to other contests that day, which will not help GOP efforts to win this swing state in the general election.
Update: The issues in qualifying for the Virginia ballot are well-known. Via Philip Klein’s Twitter feed, Stacy Cline notes that in 2007, “the Giuliani campaign had a full-time lawyer devoted almost entirely to qualifying for the VA ballot” and Team Rudy spent an entire weekend checking to make sute they had enough signatures from each district. Virginia GOP officials tell John McCormack there is not a write-in line on the ballot. Klein will be shocked if Newt qualifies.
Update 2: Looks like Newt’s in, making Perry look even worse.
Update 3: Patterico commenter SarahW tweets that she got a robocall to come down and sign a petition… on the day before the robocall. Oops.
Update 4: Newt Gingrich has also been DQed from the VA primary. He promises an aggressive write-in campaign. It may also be futile, if John McCormack’s source was correct — and, given the circumstances, we might credit some anonymous state party official over Gingrich until definitively proven otherwise.
Update 5: Yep, looks like there’s no write-in for Virginia primaries. IIRC, the GOP has minimal control over the state legislature… could they amend the law to allow write-ins? I do not even know if the legislature is in session, but I would think there could be discussion, as it would benefit the state and national party to have a more competitive primary. (I presume the fear is that in a year like this, Dems could flood the GOP primary for Obama.)
–Karl
Ding!
Karl (5a613f) — 12/23/2011 @ 3:41 pmHoly @#$@
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 3:42 pmAnd I thought they submitted enough.
If Newt and Perry have been thrown off the ballot despite submitting enough, because of some lawyers trying to get candidates thrown off ballots, that is disturbing.
Too early to say, but it’s a classic Friday news dump.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 3:46 pmDustin,
Based on Twitter, looks to me like VA officials examine a sample of ~10-15% of signatures to check for problems. Campaigns are generally advised to collect 15000 names to make sure they qualify. Perry and Newt clearly were flirting with disaster. Now Perry is off, and Newt may be off by the end of the evening.
Karl (5a613f) — 12/23/2011 @ 3:49 pmI wantchu to come on… come on down, Sweet Virginia… got to scrape the sh*t right off yer shoes.
Colonel Haiku (8699c3) — 12/23/2011 @ 3:56 pmClearly Perry was never a serious candidate. He was just promoting himself and his book tour.
JD (269dac) — 12/23/2011 @ 3:57 pmThat’s actually comforting.
If they have to check, then they have to check.
I was referring to the idea of one campaign actually trying to get another campaign off.
I do understand Romney submitted 15k, but I also understand his were rubber stamped because of the higher volume.
I really think this kind of stuff is goofy. Now all Republicans in VA are forced to choose from Paul and Romney? That’s stupid. Those are the two worst candidates.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 3:58 pmYeah, if I weren’t a Perry supporter I would make a similar joke. And indeed, if it were Perry on the ballot, but Newt off, I’m sure we would hear how Newt is not a real candidate.
But indeed, Newt is a real candidate. He’s worked hard, and a lot of people want to vote for him, and I think it’s asinine if he’s kept from the ballot.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 3:59 pmUpdate!
Karl (5a613f) — 12/23/2011 @ 3:59 pmNathan also points out the WaPo story may be imprecise about whether signatures were declared invalid, or whether Team Perry simply miscounted.
Karl (5a613f) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:02 pmya snooze, ya lose.
Colonel Haiku (8699c3) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:02 pmNathan also points out the WaPo story may be imprecise about whether signatures were declared invalid, or whether Team Perry simply miscounted.
It was that liberal use of “Marty Moose” that tipped them off.
Colonel Haiku (8699c3) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:03 pmDustin – that was not a crack at you, and really, not even aimed at Perry. That was a metric used to declare others not real candidates, based on far less, previously.
JD (269dac) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:04 pmIt makes you wonder what their vaunted campaigns are good for, staff work doesn’t seems a first priority.
narciso (87e966) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:04 pmhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIrhVo1WA78
Colonel Haiku (8699c3) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:05 pmWell that would just be quite bad.
Haiku actually seems happy that VA’s Perry supporters can’t vote for him.
You wouldn’t see me say such a thing if Perry benefited from this. In fact, I recall expressing outrage when Toomey (a Perry aide) funded a Green party ballot petition effort, basically hoping to suck votes from the democrat candidate.
I think people who cheer this kind of thing are scum.
Politics ain’t bean bag, and shame on Perry’s folks if they missed a step here, but shame on VA for a system that seems pretty stupid, and shame on Haiku for cheering denying people their vote, something many Americans have fought and died for.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:08 pmWith Perry, the stumblebum aspect is par for the course, but c’mon, Newt! WTF?!?!
Colonel Haiku (8699c3) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:09 pmI know. Of course.
Goes without saying. I know exactly what you’re referring to and I laughed at your joke.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:09 pmI’m beginning to wonder how accidental this all is,
narciso (87e966) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:10 pmsince we’ve seen this pattern before, I’m sorry to say, like say in Wisconsin among other places.
Moe Lane notes latest polls have Newt ahead of Mitt in VA.
Karl (5a613f) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:10 pmRumor just confirmed by state’s GOP on Fox News…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvyEtxaHpaI
Colonel Haiku (8699c3) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:13 pmYeah, Perry wasn’t going to win this state anyway.
Newt was.
But that’s not a great comfort. If VA has these problems, they need to fix them. I can understand strict accountability of actual votes, but putting up difficult barriers to getting on the ballot requires some justification.
We still have Ron Paul on the ballot. And filter benefit clearly isn’t there. It appears Newt and Perry tried to comply with the laws, but simply didn’t product enough excess (I assume they are throwing off signatures for some rigorous reason).
So Newt loses a state to the RINO, before the voters get a say in the matter.
Narciso, it’s easy to be suspicious in the way you are, but that’s a very serious thing to charge so I’ll wait. Frankly, if a campaign was behind this, they won’t get my vote under any circumstance.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:19 pmThat seems kind of convenient in light of this
http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/
narciso (87e966) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:19 pmAnd there’s no chance for a write in (per Karl’s post). People are truly having their votes denied.
Anyone who thinks this is a good thing is a sorry individual. This isn’t good for the GOP. VA is a swing state. Screwing all the Perry and Newt supporters in VA is going to make the general election efforts harder.
Also, are they really deeming one in five signatures invalid? Do we need to drag out the lawyers on this?
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:26 pmDo we need to drag out the lawyers on this?
What would algore do? Perry just needs to channel his “inner ’88 algore”.
Colonel Haiku (8699c3) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:28 pmAwww JDs still pinning for Cain, is he on the ballot JD? Or is he helping another woman get a job?
JD you still didnt answer which MLB team invited you to the winter meetings?
EricPWJohnson (d84fb0) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:32 pmTalk to Joe Miller’s attorneys, and get back to me on that, will you,
narciso (87e966) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:34 pmHe’s noting that you’ve mocked Newt and Cain as unserious, I believe because of how Cain wasn’t doing what he needed to in many states.
It’s a valid quip in return.
Anyway, this is really aggravating. I was OK with Newt taking the nomination. And they would have to deny something like 2000 of Perry’s signatures to get him off (unless, as Karl noted, they simply didn’t count them properly).
This is serious problem.
If they are going to have no write in line, and a high bar to the ballot, and rigorous scrutiny of candidates who submit fewer than 15k (is that on the books, or just an arbitrary call?) I think VA probably should fix this for the next election.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:36 pmJD
which team invited you to the meeting – I remember a while back you also made other claims about being apart of the NBA as well, also I see you are still contributing to a guy said he has hired lawyers to sue our host?
did you give money to him this month?
EricPWJohnson (d84fb0) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:36 pmBallot access laws like this are ripe for challenge. Third parties run up against them all the time, and often win in court. And often not.
See Richard Winger’s Ballot Access News for all this kind of stuff. Note that the DoJ is intervening in lots of places when it can use the Voting Rights Act to further Obama’s chances.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:39 pmdustin
Gingrich didnt qualify either , Perry actually did and will sue to be on the ballot. JD has a truth problem the FBI is waiting his evidence that Murkowski was corrupt, he has an open invitation in the Indy office.
You see, everyone knows Gingrich, Cain, Santorum, Huntsmen were not serious candidates, they are there for hubris or for monetary reasons, they get to use those campaign funds for life, travel, condos as long as they do something remotely political.
But JD has a problem and he needs help.
So JD, which winter team invited you to the winter baseball meetings – did you sit in on them or were you working booth at one of those tag long trade shows that stalk professional sports events?
EricPWJohnson (d84fb0) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:41 pmGood link, Kevin.
Somehow I missed this story in 2008, despite being a Rudy fan.
Eric, JD was telling the truth about his meeting in Texas. I almost had dinner with him, but my schedule made it impossible.
He was just making a light quip in good humor. I’m pissed off about this story, so the humor helps a bit, my friend.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:42 pmI hope Newt, Perry, Santorum, Bachmann and Huntsman are all on the ballot. As well as Romney.
I don’t just want Romney to lose by hook or by crook. I want Americans to consider the debate about Romneycare, social security being a ponzi scheme, gun control, etc, and CHOOSE when they vote.
BTW, I suspect the Murkowski clan are corrupt as well.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:44 pmDude this is bull just like the ”Conservative Vice Lords” and their image.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:45 pmDustin – sorry. This was predictable. My bad. You are making shlt up again, epwj. We already covered this, though you added a new lie about the NBA, something I never claimed.
JD (269dac) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:45 pmMurkowski is a moldy hamburger.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:48 pmDear EPWJ:
Do you REALLY want people to have to read a history of your bizarre medicated posts, even as you try to be a more serious poster here?
I mean, shall we start talking about the number of Jews in Iran? Or your Walter Mitty fantasies?
Quit attacking people, and stick to the topic. Jeez. Do you want Santa to hydrofrack your brain again? Because your post history makes you a great source of gas.
Simon Jester (d7563a) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:50 pmAristotle is still not Belgian, nor is the London Underground, a political movement, JD.
narciso (87e966) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:50 pmCertainly if party rules are so stringent that they keep the leading candidate(s) off the ballot in favor of a more organized candidate (who may also have the favor of the party hierarchy), the election would be hard to call “fair and free.” Pretty much what you have in Berzerkistan, with fewer bullets and more lawyers.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:52 pmNarcisco – the moon is less than 4 too 🙂
JD (269dac) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:53 pmIt’s difficult to imagine a less competent group than this crop of candidates. I’d call them a clown posse, but that would be an insult to the clowns.
Be prepared for four more years of President Barack Hussein Obama.
JEA (5411f4) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:54 pmJD
So which MLB Team invited you to the winter meetings? What type of sports consulting did they need from you?
So did you meet with the FBI yet. How much did you give Jeff this month?
did you read the article where Cain was to benefit with book tours and speaking engagements but this might hve been thwarted by well assaulting women and cheating on his wife allegations?
why would Santorum, Huntsmen, run knowing that they have no way of getting on the ballot of several states that ctually require that they have a staff?
Come on JD, did you give money gain to that guy this month?
awww Mr sharp edges doesnt backup what he says.
EricPWJohnson (d84fb0) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:56 pmHey, Eric?
Remember how you accused me of calling you a terrorist? I keep asking you to produce that quote, or apologize.
You always run away.
So…before you criticize anyone else, don’t you think you ought to, well, clean up your own problems?
What a hypocrite you are.
Simon Jester (d7563a) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:57 pmOr you could SHUT THE FRACK UP AND STICK TO THE TOPIC.
Honest to God, that is why I think you are a stinking troll.
Simon Jester (d7563a) — 12/23/2011 @ 4:58 pmJD
did you give money to Jeff this month?
EricPWJohnson (d84fb0) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:02 pmI don’t remember that line, someone though is ‘dialing up to 11’
narciso (87e966) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:06 pmSimon,
Let me see, JD goes off topic – you’re oky with that – i respond pointing out tht he is an inaccurate portrayer with a past of distortions of both what I say and his own personal “success” – thats not okay.
Jd likes to bust balls and well gets alittle sensitive if someone busts his back. He accuses but really cant stand being scrutinied. Like his over the top defense of Elissa’s recipe comments which isnt wise because if, if by some miracle he ACTUALLY ws a OFFICIAL MLB, NBA vendor they have a strict no tolerance clause. It wouldnt be very wise at all
EricPWJohnson (d84fb0) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:07 pmwith fewer bullets and more lawyers.
Such a target-rich environment calls for more ammo.
AD-RtR/OS! (5dcba8) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:15 pmThreatening me again, epwj? We discussed this all previously. Apparently you blacked out and forgot. You distorted elussa’s words beyond recognition. Again, I never claimed MLB invited me. We were a corporate sponsor. I made no claim about the NBA, you made that up. Our host has already told you what he thinks about your other lines of attack. Seek help. Count Jooooooooos.
JD (269dac) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:18 pmKevin, I agree with your comparison.
I’m still very interested in just how awful Perry’s signatures were if so many were declared invalid.
Who gets that job… declaring signatures real or fake? Why isn’t there a write-in?
Most of this state doesn’t want Romney to be the president, at least if the polling is correct. They also don’t want Ron Paul. They should have a chance to vote on the running candidate they prefer.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:19 pmSeriously though, the rules in VA have been known for years, and multiple election cycles, and any politician more sentient than a parimecium knows, or should have asked, about the pitfalls of each State’s primary schedule.
AD-RtR/OS! (5dcba8) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:19 pmTo skirt that close to the signature minimum is pretty …. striking.
Perhaps they both (Newt and Rick-P) needed to lay on additional book-signings?
I was not off topic, Dustin, was I? I merely noted that by the standard applied to the rapist Cain, and unserious Gingrich he of no staff, not getting on a ballot for any reason was evidence and proof that they were not serious candidates. When applied to his favorite, the metric changed.
JD (269dac) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:21 pmIt’s that time, again, JD,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
I don’t know I would think their people would have handled the appropriate measures.
narciso (87e966) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:22 pmSour grapes department:
Since Virginia does not have partisan voter registration, they allow each voter to select a party ballot at the polling place. They can only vote in one party primary, but they get to choose which party.
There will be no Democrat presidential primary, so nominal Democrats can vote in another party’s primary. I fully expect Ron Paul to win big.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:26 pmThey should have a chance to vote on the running candidate they prefer.
Rules? He don’t need no stinkin rules!
Colonel Haiku (8699c3) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:27 pmYou are now claiming to be an official sponsor of the MLB? wow? I didnt distort anything Elissa said – you did trying to dfend it – here why dont you send in your comments in your “Official” sponsor to the appropriate people at the MLB and see how they feel about it? I can tell you I wouldnt reccomend doing it under any circumstances.
And the only thing being threatened here is the realization that you again maybe hve said too much, again. there are many experienced pundits who have questioned Cains, and the others candidacies if they were real or not. For you to assume that I was making it up otherwise just indicates that either:
You are not well informed
or
You are just willing to deliberately distort stuff – again
Where do I mail the binky to JD? 🙂
EricPWJohnson (d84fb0) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:30 pmBravo, narcisco.
JD (269dac) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:30 pmThe question is:
AD-RtR/OS! (5dcba8) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:35 pmIs epwj wackier when he’s on khat, or off his khat?
You apparently cannot read. I did not claim that we are a corporate sponsor of MLB. As I explained previously, we sponsored the trade show, and hosted receptions for our major and minor league clients. You are a delusional clown.
I apologize to everyone for this. This is worse than the Perry Romney daily nonsense. I wish epwj would get the help he needs.
JD (269dac) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:35 pmGiven the recent discovery of the “main AQ funding channel” who lives in Iran, figure on the Obama administration moving from a cold to hot war against Iran before Summer of 2012.
Colonel Haiku (8699c3) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:36 pmI didn’t think so. Joking about the seriousness of the campaigns that didn’t navigate VA’s laws (though it appears they did, actually, but didn’t navigate the bureaucrats as well) is not off topic.
You weren’t ball busting either.
Anyway, Eric isn’t a troll. He, like me, can take it to the next level when defending himself or someone he respects. I recognize it because I’m susceptible. Eric brings an interesting POV, but in this case, I disagree with him. JD’s obviously a great commenter, and his tendency to inject humor into things is not a problem from my point of view.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:36 pmHe’s brown-nose double-dippin’ and hoping for a sprinkle of nuts.
Colonel Haiku (8699c3) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:42 pmRelly Major League clients? Really JD? Are you now saying you are a registered sports agent? But send in your Elissa comments and see wht “Clients” you have left other thn your imaginary ones. Do that right after your meeting with the FBI right?
Dustin,
I’m just having fun with JD too, I think its funny he thinks he is a MLB sponsor. Perry will be on the ballot so will gingrich – VA is always a mess
EricPWJohnson (d84fb0) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:53 pmI hope so.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 5:59 pmDustin, Eric has accused several people, including me, of saying things that are both repulsive and untrue. And when called on it, he doubles down or moves on.
How is that not Trollish?
I recommend you spend some time reviewing his bizarre history.
At the very least, you should encourage him to apologize for lying about other posters. I’m serious about that.
Simon Jester (d7563a) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:00 pmAnd sooner or later, Dustin, this nutcase will lie about you. You may be less tolerant of his long history of nonsense then.
Simon Jester (d7563a) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:01 pmMaybe we should ask Rightwing Sparkle for a character reference?
Simon Jester (d7563a) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:02 pmI am leaving, as his aggressive dishonesty serves nothing but his own amusement. Assume I disagree with anything he claims about me. He is a lying liar.
JD (269dac) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:03 pmIt’s Bachmann, then Perry separated only slightly, then Newt, then Ron Paul (hahaha), then Santorum, then Obama (?) then Huntsman, then Romney is dead last.
Interesting.
Nice to know my opposition to Romney is justified by USA Today’s no-doubt completely scientific methodology.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:04 pmSay, it’s 2100 on the East Coast, is that still too early for the WH Doc Dump?
AD-RtR/OS! (5dcba8) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:04 pmAnd just what crap are they going to attempt to slide past everyone today, or tomorrow?
30. Kevin’s link Ballot Access indicates the verification of signatures for primaries is not the norm. An independent is already suing.
And Gingrich claims he was delivering nearly 15K.
gary gulrud (d88477) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:09 pmYou need to do the smiley face when you say that Dustin,
narciso (87e966) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:10 pmIf the GOP pulls shenanigans and is caught or suspected beyond reasonable doubt, it will not redound to their greater glory.
gary gulrud (d88477) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:12 pmWell, the DoJ stopped South Carolina’s Voter ID law, saying the state was racists, of course. It’s always 1965 in Selma at the DoJ.
Since the US Supreme COurt ruled 6-3 that Voter ID laws did not disenfranchise minorities, I guess this is one of those Presidential nullifications that Newt was talking about.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:12 pmUpdate 2: Newt’s in.
Karl (5a613f) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:13 pmI decided I hadn’t the time to waste on the USA Today, the three year old proved it putting stickers on the TV screen and stripping to her tutu.
gary gulrud (d88477) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:14 pmBTW, Richard Winger has been doing that Ballot Access newsletter since the early 90’s, and he’s known to be pretty credible, if Libertarian. Rick Hasen’s blog might have more.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:16 pmMy above comment was in the wrong thread.
Simon, I understand where you are coming from. Trust me, I do. I used to be the guy going from thread to thread complaining about Eric.
I have also asked Eric to apologize in the past, actually. And yes, his comments about JD are complete bull and way out of line and he owes JD an apology for them. The reason I am not saying this is mostly because I think it doesn’t really need to be said. I mean, it’s JD.
But I have a different perspective on online arguments than I used to.
If someone is going to blast others online, big deal. So long as they don’t take it beyond comments, I just don’t care. I’ll blast them back sometimes, but often if they are being blasted sufficiently I just don’t care.
Not because you’re wrong, but because everything is relative.
Has Eric been wrong in arguments with a lot of respected commenters, and even taking it to a point where an apology makes sense? Yes. And sometimes, he has humbled himself for that reason. He also brings interesting points, not infrequently.
I’ve been disagreeing a lot with three Romney defenders here, and all three have been ugly about it (indeed, I have been a few times, though not as often), but two have also provided some rational debate in good faith, so only one of those three is a troll in my book. Two are just extremely passionate about good faith debate. And even the actual troll doesn’t merit a rise in blood pressure.
Anyway, this is such a serious issue to me, bureaucrats ripping the decision over who is President out of the hands of the voters. I didn’t want to contribute to the blasting that was off topic, no disrespect intended to you (Seriously).
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:17 pmAnd about the SC Voter ID thing: Rick Hasen (centerish) titles his report “Breaking News: DOJ Blocks South Carolina Voter ID Law Under Voting Rights Act; Case Could Be Vehicle to Get Supreme Court to Strike Down Section 5 of VRA Relatively Soon“
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:19 pmSection 5 of the VRA is a very big deal. It’s why we have Sheila Jackson Lee in congress, basically by law.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:22 pmI’ve been disagreeing a lot with three Romney defenders here, and all three have been ugly about it (indeed, I have been a few times, though not as often),
You spread disinformation and do it with malice. There’s not an ounce of “good faith” in the mixture.
Colonel Haiku (8699c3) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:24 pmIt is interesting, Dustin, that he runs away from his words toward me. He claims I called him a terrorist, and that is an odious lie. I have brought it up multiple times, for him to put up or shut up, and he runs away.
You are I differ: I think how a person acts, even online, says something about their honor and honesty. I do not trust a person who lies actively about others, and who will not admit it when they are wrong.
I would not trust a word out of EPWJ’s mouth. You can feel free. I have seen him lie, actively, about public figures and about commenters here. That tells me what I need to know.
Trust me, he treasures your support.
The truth is, he is just DCSCA without spell check.
Simon Jester (d7563a) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:25 pmI got a call to come put my sig on the petition. Said show up Tues. at these places between x and x o’clock. Only problem, the call was on Wednesday. I had no tiem mesheen so stayed home.
SarahW (b0e533) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:28 pmThat call was for the Perry petition in VA, if there’s any mystery about what I was referring to.
I would have signed it to get him on the ballot.
SarahW (b0e533) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:31 pmNot untrue, but i have to, at most, dial it up to about four for that, because I need to be able to dial it up further for other folks.
He’s kept his word regarding bashing Palin, and that probably took a lot, so yeah, I offer him some support.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:32 pm“This source said Perry’s campaign may have submitted somewhere between 4-6 thousand qualified signatures.”
If true, the people of Virginia have spoken, at least in regards to the candidacy of one Rick Perry.
Colonel Haiku (8699c3) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:33 pmThanks for that info.
I want to know what happened. I imagine there is quite a story about how this mess happened.
And I want all the candidates on the freaking ballot, and a write in line. This is supposed to be a decent country.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:33 pmNo sale.
Colonel Haiku (8699c3) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:34 pmYou can’t – or won’t – follow the rules, you have no business leading the country.
Colonel Haiku (8699c3) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:36 pmAnd given the title of this thread (and the fact that Perry hails from Texas), I guess this makes him a rodeo clown.
Colonel Haiku (8699c3) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:38 pmI’ll take the silly troll, with his outlandish lies and puffery, more seriously when he apologizes for the many lies and distortions he has dealt others.
Your statement above reminds me of the Russian proverb about the dancing bear: it’s not how well it dances, but that it dances at all. It’s a nice restatement of the expression “damned by faint praise.”
You might feel differently if you had been maligned…and I am not the only poster here that he has slimed. You like him now because he is agreeing with a position of yours.
Trying disagreeing with him about something. Then see where it goes.
But to each their own. You will find defending EPWJ to be a fulltime job.
He is not an honorable man, unlike yourself.
Simon Jester (d7563a) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:43 pmI don’t see how Section 5, could apply even under strict scrutiny it seems such a reach.
narciso (87e966) — 12/23/2011 @ 6:45 pmComment by Kevin M — 12/23/2011 @ 5:26 pm
I think it’s more likely that it would work in favor of Romney. There are three kinds of Democrats who would vote in the GOP primary–those committed to Obama, who will vote for the wackiest/weakest available candidate–which by their lights would not be Paul; Democrats unhappy with Obama, who will vote for Romney because he will be an acceptable alternative to Obama in the general election; Democrats honestly attracted to Paul. I think the potential Romney voters is by far the largest.
JBS (46fd97) — 12/23/2011 @ 7:08 pmWEhy wouldn’t they vote for Paul, the point is to cause mischief in the primary,
narciso (87e966) — 12/23/2011 @ 7:19 pmI was afraid that’s how it looked, but it’s not the case.
I understand where you’re coming from, at any rate.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 7:28 pmThat goal would be better served by voting for someone who is close to the bottom of the pack. And Paul is a much stronger opponent than you seem to think. The liberal press is now afraid of him, at least: I’m sure you’ve noticed how they’re all crying RAACIST! the last few days.
GIven the way the VA primary is turning out, I’m not sure who will actually be on the ballot, so Paul may be their best bet, depending on who is not on the ballot. But if Perry ends up on the ballot, they’re more likely to go for him than for Paul.
JBS (46fd97) — 12/23/2011 @ 8:14 pm‘Turn those machines back on’
http://legalinsurrection.com/2011/12/yes-virginia-there-are-only-three-republican-candidates/
narciso (87e966) — 12/23/2011 @ 8:33 pmhttp://www.rocklandcountytimes.com/?p=839
narciso (87e966) — 12/23/2011 @ 8:39 pmThey should not be advertising guns because the 2nd amendment is so evil unless I wanna use it
/Liberals
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/23/2011 @ 9:01 pmI love how democraps the party of Bill Ayers calls republicans the thug party?
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/23/2011 @ 9:06 pmThat Perry really knows how to run a campaign, huh?
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 12/23/2011 @ 10:20 pmCounting the number of primary states is probably even harder than counting to 3, I guess.
carlitos (49ef9f) — 12/23/2011 @ 10:39 pmCain – rapist
Paul – racist
Romney – elitist
Bachmann – performance art?
Perry – dumbass
I’m really looking forward to the primary. I’ve held my nose before, but I might need a clothespin this year. Huntsman 2016?
carlitos (49ef9f) — 12/23/2011 @ 11:00 pmLet’s just say there’s no Ronald Reagan on the ticket.
I guess that’ll be the way this is discussed in the press, no matter the legal result. I think if he submitted 12k, then he probably wasn’t being completely incompetent about it, and I doubt Perry personally did anything different than other candidates (I assume this was delegated).
But this is the system we have now. A bunch of hurdles for our leaders that have nothing to do with leadership. In fact, they seem to inversely correlate with leadership ability.
No wonder the country is in the shape it’s in.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/23/2011 @ 11:05 pm🙂
carlitos (49ef9f) — 12/23/2011 @ 11:10 pmCain a rapist?
As usual you idiots have no proof.
I’d rather tear out my brainstem walk into the middle of the nearest 4 way intersection and skip rope with it then be a Democrap.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/23/2011 @ 11:24 pmEvidence?
carlitos (49ef9f) — 12/23/2011 @ 11:41 pmDid Perry’s campaign screw up?
Perish the thought. It’s always somebody else’s fault.
I want to see the post mortem.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2011 @ 12:10 amNow they say that Newt is also not in. Expect lawsuits by both candidates.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 12:58 amAlso expect that Virgina’s delegates will have issues getting credentialed if there’s no winner before the Convention.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 1:00 am#103 & #107.
LOL.
carlitos is on a roll.
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 12/24/2011 @ 1:22 amTook the USA Today online test. Results (Dustin, stand by with a “SHOCKA!”)are:
Romney
Obama
Bachmann
[Huntsman was fourth]
Obviously not a scientific survey, as I would choose to vote for Newt or Perry over Obama in a heartbeat.
Icy (d0c253) — 12/24/2011 @ 1:29 amCheck out the VoteMatch Quiz at On The Issues
Icy (d0c253) — 12/24/2011 @ 1:50 amMy results were:
Gingrich
Santorum
Romney & Perry (tied for 3rd place)
http://www.ontheissues.org/Quiz/Quiz2010.asp?quiz=Pres2012
Icy (56de68) — 12/24/2011 @ 1:56 amDid Perry’s campaign screw up?
Perish the thought. It’s always somebody else’s fault.
I want to see the post mortem.
Comment by daleyrocks
“But… but… look how we dun it in Texas!”
– Rick “Awesomeness” Perry
Colonel Haiku (8639f8) — 12/24/2011 @ 4:47 amI’m sure this was just an oversight, sarc;
http://www.stoptheaclu.com/2011/12/24/media-forgets-to-mention-s-c-immigration-law-blocking-judge-is-obama-appointee/
narciso (87e966) — 12/24/2011 @ 5:29 amWTH… now it’s official that Newton didn’t qualify for the ballot in Sweet Virginny?
https://twitter.com/#!/VA_GOP/status/150480784145383425
Colonel Haiku (8639f8) — 12/24/2011 @ 5:57 am@Walt_gilbert @VA_GOP (MT) “After verification”….we have determined that we are supporting Mitt Romney by default for President 2012.
narciso (87e966) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:16 amThe Democrats only managed to get one guy on the ballot in Virginia- that’s half the number of Republican candidates! As I understand it, they didn’t even bother validating the signatures on his application, because they were afraid he couldn’t muster enough real people in the whole state who still support him!
A Conservative Teacher (451120) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:28 amThe folks running for the Republican nomination are either in this, fully cognizant of the rules, what’s required, with a competent staff, and the support of at least a specific (as specified) number of each primary state’s citizens.
Or they are not.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:34 amI suspect Perry is manically loading his clown campaign staff into his clown car – I like to think it’s a turd brown Chevy Beretta – for the trip back home to Texas.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:36 amIf you wanted to make the Virginia primary, irrelevant, you couldn’ have chosen a better method,
narciso (87e966) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:41 amfor all the uncommitted will go to Paul.
I’m with JD. FWIW, I partially blame politics but I really blame the sockpuppet threads for what’s happened here of late. Those threads encouraged extreme comments and I think that tone carried over to the debates in the other threads. Whatever the cause, it’s a shame.
DRJ (a83b8b) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:48 am121. VA delegates challenged at convention.
You know who this helps.
gary gulrud (d88477) — 12/24/2011 @ 7:29 am::weeps for Virginia::
Only one vote now, to teach GOP a lesson about “no write-ins”, and that’s for the very-clearly-a-joke candidate. No other way to play except to stay home.
VA primary irrelevant.
SarahW (b0e533) — 12/24/2011 @ 7:35 amFor example, if Romney does get the nominee in 2012, the Republican Party will lose the election and Obama will be back in the White House for another four more years. The conservatives and Tea Party members will not vote for Romney. It is just like in 2008 and 1994.
m (aa7950) — 12/24/2011 @ 7:38 amSix Republican and six Democrat candidates on the ballot in 2008. Rules and deadlines known well in advance.
What happened or what changed?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2011 @ 7:56 amObviously not a scientific survey, as I would choose to vote for Newt or Perry over Obama in a heartbeat.
I would vote for any of them over Obama before I would stay home in a useless fit of pique (why not just hold your breath until you turn blue, people?) yo show my disappointment. Of course, in Paul’s case, I would hope and pray the Congress would “put a leash on the puppy”.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:01 am
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:01 amyotoSix Republican and six Democrat candidates on the ballot in 2008. Rules and deadlines known well in advance.
What happened or what changed?
more excuse making and whining?
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:03 amdefinitely more conspiracy theories…
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:04 amEric Johnson? No gifts for you!
Santa Claus the Gift Nazi (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:20 amMerry Christmas!
http://youtu.be/2SzjDOk_u9I
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:28 amthis was a problem you solve by throwing money at it
and that’s how Wall Street Romney rolls
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:36 amCongress doled out $592K for a study on the reasons why monkeys throw feces. A lot of free research material can be found right here!
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:52 amIt’s a shame VA’s GOP ballot is between a conspiracy kook and a self described progressive with a socialist record. The two worst candidates.
The other candidates are eligible for the office, so they shouldn’t be kept from the ballot for bizarre reasons, and the explanation for every single invalidated signature should be provided (and better be compelling).
It’s time to fix this. VA gave Romney a mere 3.68% in the primary in 2008 because he’s not who they want. They seem to prefer Newt (and why shouldn’t they?… he’s much better). Simple as that.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:56 am“The other candidates are eligible for the office, so they shouldn’t be kept from the ballot for bizarre reasons”
Dustin – I have not seen any bizarre reasons served up except on this thread and awaiting an explanation of what happened. Clearly if six candidates were able to qualify in 2008, the barriers are not insurmountable. What happened? Throwing out conspiracy theories and pointing fingers with no evidence serves no purpose.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:02 amThis kind of law helps insiders and wealthy candidates, but it’s not a sign of candidate strength (after all, Newt was going to win, and Romney failed hard in VA in 2008). Having the money to fund a ridiculous signature effort is not a sign of candidate strength. This primary has also seen a lot of dates move forward stupidly, which also favors a certain candidate over the others. Not saying a fix is in so much as the rules are keeping reformers out, by design.
Laws like this are a classic way to keep outsiders off the ballot.
Many candidates run unopposed because of laws that make it difficult to get on the ballot. A large number of Republicans are voting AGAINST Romney rather than for anyone else, and now they have Ron Paul who isn’t worthy of the not-Romney vote.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:06 amOn what basis did the VA GOP decide that if you have X number of ballots, they didn’t need to be verified?
This doesn’t appear to be in law. Just someone decided, Romney’s level doesn’t require verification, the other two apparently require extensive verification.
I personally doubt Romney is stupid or unpatriotic enough to actually have the competition thrown off the ballot (there’s no evidence of that), but rules like this don’t make sense to me. I’m sure had the law said 15k the other guys would have produced that many.
‘Rules are rules’ shouldn’t comfort anyone in the candidate the state wanted being thrown off the ballot. This is the wrong outcome.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:11 am“Laws like this are a classic way to keep outsiders off the ballot.”
Just like 2008. Heh.
I prefer more candidates on the ballot. Not having Gingrich on his home state ballot makes a mockery of the process, but if candidates can’t abide by published rules and deadlines, it is their own fault. The Perry campaign as far as I know is not suffering from a lack of money. The same cannot necessarily be said for Bachmann and Santorum.
I want to hear exactly what happened before getting outrageously outraged.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:12 amLaws like this are a classic way to keep outsiders off the ballot.
I wonder if they asked the “candidates” who couldn’t cut the mustard for their photo ID?
Totally unfair and a true traveshamockery!
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:12 amA large number of Republicans are voting AGAINST Romney rather than for anyone else,
Night of the Living Braindead.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:13 amIt’s Romney’s fault Perry did not qualify for the Virginia primary.
Q.E.D.
#Misplacedanger
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:13 amI personally doubt Romney is stupid or unpatriotic enough to actually have the competition thrown off the ballot (there’s no evidence of that)
I tend toward not believing that Perry is so inept, in-over-his-head, or of such sub-normal intelligence that he wasn’t fully ware of the consequences of his inaction (there’s no evidence of that).
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:18 amWhen Obama had his competitors thrown off the ballot, I thought that was wrong. His fanboys said ‘rules are rules!’
It’s really a matter of patriotism.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:19 amIt’s really a matter of patriotism.
You keep comforting yourself with that happy horsesh*t, true believer.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:33 amDRJ
No disrespect but JD has a storied history here of being really rude, lying, disengenious, and much more too the point that I had a bundle of companies that were going to run ads on the site tell me that they were not SPECIFICALLY because of JD.
EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:34 amSo, now you’re an ad broker?
AD-RtR/OS! (76a579) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:49 amI think it’s wonderful that “JD(‘s) storied history” has cost you money – for PP, not so much.
147, more…
AD-RtR/OS! (76a579) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:51 amand just when haven’t you been dis-respectful, BTW?
AD
No, a ban is enforced by people I’ve worked for and worked with. I didnt agree with their decision, they made it months ago. I still dont agree with it, but there it is.
EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:52 amInstead of blaming the law and claiming it’s designed to keep out outsiders, why not hold Gingrich and Perry responsible for undisciplined campaigns? The rules have been solidly in place, they knew about them ahead of time and could have begun collecting signatures in July. It was the same for everybody across the board. As Virginia is Newt’s adopted home state, one would think that the extra effort there would have been a priority, however, from what I have read, he barely had an active campaign infrastructure in place.
Moreover, because Virginia is so populated, how many delegates will it be offering? A lot. And because of Newt’s mismanagement and lack of discipline, not one of those will he get.
Dana (4eca6e) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:52 amI remember running for office in California, where for the State Assembly I needed to get a few hundred signatures of registered Libertarians. The rules were a bit odd: I had to turn in a minimum number of signatures, valid or not, and then I could cure the defects or pay a small fee, but I could not just pay a fee. So, the first thing the LP groups did was have everyone sign everyone’s petitions, even though most of those signatures would be out-of-district and invalid. Just needed bulk signatures, not valid ones.
It seems that if they just wanted 15K signatures to avoid checking, the odds play is to accept them from anyone, double them up, take them from children, make them up, etc. And if you knew the 15K cutoff, you would do that. If you actually believed the rules were going to be followed instead, you might not. I wonder just how many of Mitt’s and Ron’s are really valid. Ron in particular, since the LP has deep knowledge of ballot access laws and practices, as is fairly cynical about complying with the State’s rules.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:56 amPerhaps, epwj, you should have brought your concerns directly to our host, who could have decided privately what course of action he wished to take on this matter (if any), instead of hanging more of your dirty laundry here in public in another ad-hom attack.
AD-RtR/OS! (76a579) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:57 amAbsent any other proof of the veracity of your allegations, I resort to my default position that you are delusional.
But this isnt a subject I want to discuss, I was just pointing out that JD isnt the poster child for civilized discourse on a blog
EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:59 am“JD(‘s) storied history”
Okay… I’ll be the first to say it: Good Allah!
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:01 am“…Gingrich and Perry responsible for undisciplined campaigns…”
It seems that Gingrich has no campaign (didn’t they all quit months ago?) other than his immediate family/personal staff;
AD-RtR/OS! (76a579) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:01 amPerry is another matter.
You brought it up, and as always when the discussion reflects badly upon yourself, you run away instead of admitting that you were wrong.
If, in fact, there were people considering running ads at PP but reconsidered due to the tone of discourse here, this is a matter that YOU should have raised PRIVATELY with Patrick (his email address is in the RH margin) so that he could address it.
Once again, epwj is EpicFail!
AD-RtR/OS! (76a579) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:04 am…and with that, I’m going out for my morning bike ride, now that the temps got up to the mid-50’s.
AD-RtR/OS! (76a579) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:05 amKevin M,
In light of your experience, on a national level, wouldn’t one want a solid buffer above the required number?
It appears to me that when Perry collects only 2,000 above the required number and Newt collects 2-3,000 above, compared to Romney collecting 16,000, both candidates took the take-it-for-granted-less-disciplined route.
Dana (4eca6e) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:05 amTHe other thing is that the VA rules were set up for signature gathering in early spring, not a few weeks between Thanksgiving and Christmas. It was hard enough before, now it is next to impossible without spending significant money to hire people. Given the rules, it probably takes $100K to even attempt the process, which is why several candidates opted out.
The state has an interest, perhaps, in keeping fringe candidates off the ballot, but when the ballot access conditions keep the polling leader and at least other candidates polling over 5% off the ballot, the state has no way to claim rational basis in defense of the law. Reasonable ballot access is a right under the 1st Amendment, the UN charter and a few Cold War treaties that the US signed. Gingrich, Perry and at least Bachmann should sue, claiming unconstitutional limits on electoral participation and (if you believe the polls) a disenfranchisement of the majority of Virginia’s Republican voters.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:08 amDana,
Up to now, there has been no validation of primary signatures, they just started this year. Who got told?
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:12 am#159 …at least _2_ other candidates …
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:14 am#135 and 137: The reason Romney did poorly in the Virginia primary in 2008 is that he had already dropped out of the race 5 days before the primary.
Joshua (146606) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:25 amDana,
In a compressed primary season, where the first primaries are in the final stretch and mean so much to so many, for some state to come along and say: if you want to be on our ballot, you are going to have to commit significant time and money RIGHT THE F NOW, or we will pretty much arbitrarily exclude you from our ballot.
It is fairly ironic that they let ANYONE vote in a Republican primary but exclude 5 of 7 active Republican candidates, including the the 1st, 3rd and 4th place candidates (PPP 12/11 – 12/13) or the 1st, 4th and 5th place candidates (Quinepac 12/13 – 12/18). The state has created a sham primary and it boggles the mind that the delegates might be seated.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:35 amYou keep on being a piece of trash Colonel Haiku.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:35 amGingrich, Perry and at least Bachmann should sue, claiming unconstitutional limits on electoral participation and (if you believe the polls) a disenfranchisement of the majority of Virginia’s Republican voters.
Litigation? Why not just pull the race card and be done with it?
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:36 amVA primary polling data
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:36 amcrunch, crunch, “Pickles”…
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:37 amHaiku, ballot access suits are as common as ballot access shenanigans. If only someone had sued to challenge Obama’s ballot-access crap in Illinois, and kept him out of the state senate.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:39 amI’d rather tear out my brainstem walk into the middle of the nearest 4 way intersection and skip rope with it then be a Democrap.
Comment by Dohbiden
Film at Eleven!
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:40 amHaiku, ballot access suits are as common as ballot access shenanigans. If only someone had sued to challenge Obama’s ballot-access crap in Illinois, and kept him out of the state senate.
How many were filed during the ’88, ’96, 2000 and ’08 Republican presidential primaries?
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:43 amOther than bottom tier, virtually unknown potential candidates, how many ballot access suits have been filed in recent Republican presidential primaries?
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:57 amI see Forbes did in ’96 and McCain in 2000, and now, apparently, Newt just did.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 11:01 amStrike that aboot Newt.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 11:03 am‘Only A Failed System’ would disqualify him, Newt Gingrich says…
EPIC FAILed system.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 11:08 amHow many were filed during the ’88, ’96, 2000 and ’08 Republican presidential primaries?
Well, in Virignia they didn’t have this rule until 2000, and they didn’t start validating signatures until 20112, so what’s your point?
In other states, MANY, although mostly be 3rd parties since most ballot access rules are designed to screw 3rd parties. This one here in Virginia is just so bad that it screws with everyone.
And why? What is the point of it? What state interest does it further? That would be the first thing a judge would ask, and there is no good answer.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 11:19 am2012, of course.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 11:20 amNow, sure, Newt’s folks didn’t execute, but the rule is silly stupid. According to a week-old poll, Newt was up by 26% in Virginia.
(PPP 12/11-12/13)
Newt 41
Romney 15
Perry 8
Bachmann 8
Santorum 6
Paul 6
Huntsman 3
(undecided/other 13)
and the election is Romney vs Paul? The excluded candidates have the support of 66% of the voters! This wouldn’t pass the laugh test in Burma. Why is anyone defending this?
Romney and Paul should drop out from the embarrassment of participating in a fraud on the voters.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 11:28 amPerhaps the GOP should be like the Dems in ’08 (Florida, Michigan) and just declare the Virginia votes invalid.
Icy (5fb4dc) — 12/24/2011 @ 11:40 amRomney v. Paul?
I’m voting: Paul Y’all!
Before the GOP can admit it has a problem, it will have to hit bottom, and you can’t get any more bottom than having Paul cruise into the convention with the most delegates.
AD-RtR/OS! (76a579) — 12/24/2011 @ 11:49 amThe GOP Field:
Is this the political equivalent of the ’62 Mets?
“Can’t anyone here play this game?”
AD-RtR/OS! (76a579) — 12/24/2011 @ 11:59 am“You keep on being a piece of trash Colonel Haiku.”
Dohbiden – Lack of self-awareness make Dohbiden brave. Swamp gas got nothing on you, Peppermint Patty.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2011 @ 12:11 pmDRJ
No disrespect but JD has a storied history here of being really rude, lying, disengenious, and much more too the point that I had a bundle of companies that were going to run ads on the site tell me that they were not SPECIFICALLY because of JD.
Comment by EricPWJohnson — 12/24/2011 @ 9:34 am
JD (318f81) — 12/24/2011 @ 12:16 pm“Well, in Virignia they didn’t have this rule until 2000, and they didn’t start validating signatures until 20112, so what’s your point?”
Kevin M – Any idea how many signatures the six Republican candidates who made it on to the 2008 ballot submitted and where they were polling at the time?
Where can I read something about the state suddenly changing gears on validating signatures?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2011 @ 12:26 pmhttp://www.northjersey.com/news/Okeefe.html?c=y&page=1
OT
EricPWJohnson (8a4ca7) — 12/24/2011 @ 12:33 pmPaging Emilio Estevez, stat (it never gets old) they couldn’t find 15,000 signatures, out of how many, but it looks anticonpetitive.
narciso (87e966) — 12/24/2011 @ 12:42 pm“I had a bundle of companies that were going to run ads on the site tell me that they were not SPECIFICALLY because of JD.
Comment by EricPWJohnson — 12/24/2011 @ 9:34 am”
EPWJ – You are now an international ad broker as well as an international financier?
Please elaborate.
I smell another ass pull.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2011 @ 12:45 pm#182… pure dissin’ geniusness, JD. Props!
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 12:47 pmI had the Koch brothers committed to underwrite Patterico’s site, but they backed out explicitly because of EPWJ.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2011 @ 12:48 pmbundle in da jungle.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 12:48 pmEricPWJohnson,
I thought I had you in moderation. Now I do for sure. I will not let anyone use my site to libel good people.
JD is not dishonest. Period, end of story.
Patterico (94c471) — 12/24/2011 @ 12:55 pmPerry supporters
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 12:59 pmpocketful of miracles?
or constant ass pulls?
with empty quiver
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 1:04 pmClown is a Lonely Hunter
in chilly Winter
Chevy Beretta
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 1:07 pmbald tires, faded turd brown paint
Texas Clown Express
***Perry Plan for Virginia 2012***
1) File for Virginia primary
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 1:13 pm2) Organize staff for collection of signatures
3)
29 Perry’s people said they raised 11,000 sigs but the Party is saying they were < 10,000.
The gov endorsed Romney BTW.
Posted by: Vic at December 24, 2011 09:26 AM (YdQQY)
…
The game is being played dirty. VA GOP will get what it deserves. RONPAUL!
sarahW (b0e533) — 12/24/2011 @ 2:01 pmDana, #183, see #160.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 2:05 pm#195: I suspect that the no-validation threshold would have been the most credible number less than what Romney submitted.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 2:06 pmNo offense but Eric and Daley Rocks are in on place to accuse others of lying…..oh wait I meant offense.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/24/2011 @ 2:07 pmThe game is being played dirty. VA GOP will get what it deserves. RONPAUL!
Comment by sarahW
Simply amazing far-fringe behavior.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 2:38 pmDohbiden means credibility in Austrian.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2011 @ 2:38 pmI suspect that the no-validation threshold would have been the most credible number less than what Romney submitted.
Comment by Kevin M
But they had no idea just how deep The Conspiracy ran…
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 2:40 pmElection rigged against most experienced, most qualified, most conservative candidate.
Evidence to follow.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2011 @ 2:45 pm“EricPWJohnson, I thought I had you in moderation.”
I don’t think that’s going to help. This is a job for industrial strength, anti-psychotic medications!
🙂
Dave Surls (46b08c) — 12/24/2011 @ 2:46 pm“What once was a legitimate election process is now being used on weaker candidates.”
– Kevin Boyce, ‘The Falcon and the Perryman’
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 2:49 pmChristmas is now officially canceled.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2011 @ 3:02 pmcould they amend the law to allow write-ins?
How can you do that when the fact that write-ins are not allowed may have influenced the behavior of all the candidates? The ones who did qualify may have chosen to not invest all the money and energy if write-ins were allowed, and you can’t refund that.
j curtis (f26531) — 12/24/2011 @ 3:06 pmI’d be fine with libs voting in the Republican primary to give the delegates to Obama. Let them write him in. It’ll get us closer to a brokered convention and also remind everyone what we’re up against come November. No downside in my mind.
NJRob (fe68e7) — 12/24/2011 @ 3:07 pmRon Paul and Morning joe 2012.
sickofrinos (44de53) — 12/24/2011 @ 4:07 pmOne way to hit bottom.
no position*
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/24/2011 @ 4:10 pmDaleyrocks means I like to dress as Romneys wife in Korean.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/24/2011 @ 4:11 pmDoes Rick Perry have slaves and does he oppress Naitve Americans on his homeland?
/Sarcasm
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/24/2011 @ 4:29 pmNative*
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/24/2011 @ 4:32 pmProof of conspiracy – The Romney campaign forced the Gingrich and Perry campaigns to submit fewer than the published 15,000 Safe Harbor signatures to the Virginia GOP.
Evidence to follow.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2011 @ 4:38 pm“Was those before the signatures or before was?… dang it!”
– Governor Rick Perry
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 4:59 pmhttp://weaselzippers.us/2011/12/23/he-did-it-again-obama-issues-signing-statement-overriding-ban-on-white-house-czars-in-spending-bill/
narciso (87e966) — 12/24/2011 @ 5:02 pm“You know the results of the latest Gallup Poll? Half the country never even heard of Newt Gingperry. Nobody gives a sh*t. You guys are probably pretty tired, right? Well, you should be. Go on home, get a nice hot bath. Rest up… 15 minutes. Then get your asses back in gear. We’re under a lot of pressure, you know, and you put us there. Nothing’s riding on this except the, uh, the Constitution, my election, and maybe the future of the country. Not that any of that matters, but if you guys f*ck up again, I’m going to get mad. Goodnight.”
– Newt Gingperry, giving his staff the sort of dressing down only a true historian could possibly give.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 5:08 pmMitt Mccainromney-My friends the time has come to put this petty vendetta behind us…………..Gawd damn how dare you criticize my hair you bastard this is vendetta.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/24/2011 @ 5:12 pmcue Warren Zevon:
narciso (87e966) — 12/24/2011 @ 5:25 pmComment by Colonel Haiku — 12/24/2011 @ 2:38 pm
You can’t be serious. A vote for RONPAUL! is a vote for a kick in the teeth to (my) VA GOP.
Given a choice between the two, I’ll either not vote or vote for the one who is clearly a joke.
I don’t want anyone getting the idea that Romney deserves a single VA delgate.
sarahW (b0e533) — 12/24/2011 @ 5:51 pmYou see local establishment GOP has decided on Romney. I think overzealous purging of Perry’s petitions might maybe sort of be on purpose. Not that I am enamored of Perry.
I’ve said this elsewhere; I hate them all (or rather, find them all sub-par or lacking) but some more than others – Romney is the serious contender I hate the most.
sarahW (b0e533) — 12/24/2011 @ 5:54 pmsleeper cell… daddy issues…
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:12 pmExcitable Bouy
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:13 pmsleeper cell……………..brain issues.
Fixed to expose you.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:20 pmMy dad died also you classless puke.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:21 pmsorry to hear that, biden. I was referring to sarah, you cuke.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:24 pmI hope you’re wrong, Sarah, but that’s a real possibility.
Unfortunately, we have a system full of snakes. A lot of the excessive behavior often seems to revolve around the moderates (Which is the opposite of what I’d suspect).
At the end of the day, any outcome where the voters don’t get to vote on the legit candidate is a wrong outcome.
Hindsight is 20:20, and I don’t think people expected VA to make the calls made this year for scrutinizing ballots to the degree they have. I also think a variety of other factors have made things much more difficult for candidates who didn’t run in 2008 (schedule changes, for example).
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:29 pmAnd I think Sarah is right to vote Ron Paul, just as a protest. He’s not going to be the nominee, so deny Romney the delegates he obviously doesn’t deserve. It’s still a net loss for Newt, who I think will be the nominee, but at least this limits the damage.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:30 pmWell it could have been just a failure of due diligence, Dustin, but it’s disturbing just the same, like the Hot Air poll, that insists on a similar duality.
narciso (87e966) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:40 pmYeah, it could be a failure on both campaign’s part.
Hard to tell at this point, since VA is not explaining the specifics or the quantity regarding these thousands of invalid signatures.
And that is beside the point. Any law like this is no law at all.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:43 pmPeriod, end of story.
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/24/2011 @ 6:51 pmMerry Christmas to all.
JD (269dac) — 12/24/2011 @ 7:07 pmMerry Christmas, JD! And to Happyfeet and everybody else.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/24/2011 @ 7:09 pmmerry christmas Mr. Dustin
all is calm and also all is bright
as the magical christmas caroling truck
wends it way towards me tonight
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/24/2011 @ 7:16 pmI never seen it before!
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/24/2011 @ 7:16 pmhere’s a video from 1985 and here is from a couple years ago
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/24/2011 @ 7:38 pm(schedule changes, for example)
And that part is completely on the shoulders of the establishment. Florida–GOP governor and GOP dominated legislature (and when I say dominated, I mean dominated)–decided to move up its primary, which then prompted everyone else to move up theirs like a bunch of second graders wanting to be first in to see the newest Mutant Ninja Turtles movie. The national party establishment seems totally incapable of keeping order among these second graders.
But I am less sympathetic to Perry and Gingrich than you are. Part of the job is to work under the rules as they are, and if Paul and Romney managed to do it, then so could the others, if they had tried to do a good job. And 10,000 signatures in a state the size of Virginia, in a campaign for national office, does not sound unreasonable to me. Nor does the requirement for 400 signatures per district.
I’m also less suspicious of that 15000 signature threshold. Say Gingrich submitted 12,000 signatures. 1 out of every 6 were declared invalid. Romney submitted 15,000; to be disqualified would have required 1 out of every 3 signatures he submitted to be declared invalid. That’s a very high proportion–enough that an elections official could reasonably claim it would have been unreasonable to expect such a high number, and therefore reasonable not to vet the signatures.
However, not vetting Romney and vetting the others does raise due process concerns, and the fact that verification was never done before this year raised a gigantic red flag in my mind. And I’d also like to know who did the verification and what grounds they rejected all those signatures on.
JBS (07cf78) — 12/24/2011 @ 7:50 pmIn New York, the rule of thumb is to submit three times as many signatures as required. The Virginia Republican Party was only asking for 1 1/2 (15,000)
Romney submitted only about 16,000, and presumably used paid petition gatherers.
Illinois also has difficult ballot qualification rules. Barack Obama got elected to his first office in 1996 by disqualifying the petitions of his opponent, a State Senator who first announced she was leaving to run for the House of Representatives and endorsed him, and then changed her mind, as well as all other petitions.
In 1992, in New York, Bill Clinton probably had a secret arrangement with Lenora Fulani’s “New Alliance Party” People are knocked off the ballot in New York only when challenged by some other candidate (so sometimes very weak candidates remain) and Clinton did not want to do this himself. Lenora Fulani challenged Tsongas.
But before the deadline, Governor Mario Cuomo made sure Tsongas was on the ballot by having some of his party people gather signatures.
The Senate candidate for the New Alliance party in 1992, was by the way, Mohammed (M.T.) Mehdi, Meir Kahane’s old debating partner, who was also a close associate of Sheik Omar Abdul Rahman who led the World Trade Center bombers. Those people also killed Meir Kahane, in November 1990, and he in fact can be considered the first victim of Al Qaeda because it is all the same group – Al Qaeda is a merger of Egyptian Islamic Jihad and a Pakistan/Afghanistan group. It was the Kahane killing that started the investigation. His killer was acquitted because the defense tried to make much of the absence of an autopsy – but they’d taken X-rays.
Omar Abdul Rahman took a tour of the country, after the World Trade Center bombing – a bombing which should never had happened and wouldn’t if the FBI hadn’t forced the dropping of an informant because he wouldn’t wear a wire and because this FBI official said all Omar Rahman’s activities were aimed outside the United States –
after the bombing Omar Abdul Rahman he went on a tour of the United States visiting Michigan and Oklahoma City – which is why I thought the 1995 bombing was the work of Islamic extremists – how could Clinton be so sure immediately afterwards that it wasn’t, and that, of all things, it was connected to Waco?? That would have been going way, way, out on a limb if he didn’t have inside information.
Omar Abdul Rahman was eventually charged and convicted in a sting operation (a would-be series of follow-up bombings, plus the planned assassination of Assemblyman Dov Hikind – they also considered D’Amato – where he wasn’t properly warned of the weapons that would be used) – a sting operation which the FBI persisted for years as describing as a real plot they prevented – a sting operation which the FBI just wanted to keep going but the New York City Police department interrupted when they got close to building a bomb – sort of like what happened this year too.
M.T. Mehdi met with Bill Clinton in Little Rock in July 1992, as part of a delegation f Arab Americans. Also worth noting is that the informant told his ex-FBI handler, Nancy Floyd who resumed contact with him in violation of orders after the bombing, that he had an ability to get in contact with Bill Clinton, but she evidently didn’t believe him and the informant dropped the subject.
This was in a secretly recorded conversation because, you see ,when the informant, who went by the name of Emad Salem, agreed to tape his contacts, he also taped the FBI! Later on, Nancy Floyd was accused of having an affair with Emad Salem and this investigation went on for years.
More would have been made public but they succeeded in getting William Kunstler knocked off the case. And of course I suspect some relationship between this and Clinton discharging the FBI director on trumped up ethics charges. Underlings had created this case.
Anyway, Mike McAlary wrote in the New York Post tat Governor Mario Cuomo might have been killed in the World Trade Center bombing because he had anappointment there. The Whote House began leaking stuff about how the president’s car might be theer at times. Anyway afterwards, Clinton enlisted Ted Kennedy in getting Byron White (who although a conservative had been appointed by JFK and was still close to the Kennedy family) to retire from the Supreme Court and attempted to appoint Mario Cuomo to the vacancy, thinking this was Cuomo’s real ambition. For a week Mario Cuomo wouldn’t take his call, but he eventually turned him down. Clinton then toyed with appointing Stephen Breyer from Massachusetts to the court but appointed Ruth Bader Ginsberg instead. He appointed Breyer the next year though after conservative turned liberal (he was corrupted by the 1973 abortion decision where he had let his personal feelings about abortion overrule what should have been constitutional law and then wanted to be consistent) Harry Blackmun retired.
In the meantime, President Clinton had appointed Mario Cuomo’s son, Andrew, to an important position in the Department of Housing and kept him there. In November 1994 Mario Cuomo lost his bid for re-election.
This has been a long digression. I better stop the comment here.
Sammy Finkelman (b17872) — 12/24/2011 @ 7:58 pmTo be clear, I don’t think ‘the fix is in’.
I just think screwing around a lot is naturally going to favor the guys who have been running for many years over the outsider reformer guys. Not even really talking about anyone specific.
I wonder. Had Perry come up with 15k, whose to say Romney wouldn’t have had 17k, and that have been the threshold. Again, that sounds more conspiratorial than I intend.
I disagree. Why should someone be kept off the ballot if they can’t get 400 signatures in each district? What if they can only manage that in half the districts, or all but the most liberal one? That simply tests those with a political machine in place rather than actual candidate strength (And no, these are not the same thing).
This is a crude proxy at best for a leader’s abilities. It’s akin to having them run a marathon or simply give the state a million dollars. We have a way of choosing who wins elections, and that’s based on letting the voters vote on candidates. I think a modest filing fee is sufficient.
I think the constitution sets up enough requirements for the office as it is. Let the voters take it from there.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:01 pmThis fellow, Sammy, and it’s Abdel not Abdul,
also the getaway driver is still at large almost
20 years later,
Dr. Mehdi’s 1968 book, ”Kennedy and Sirhan: Why?” (New World Press), was described by a critic for The New York Times, Eliot Fremont-Smith, as ”truly shocking.” In the review, Mr. Fremont-Smith called the work ”a bizarre tract sponsored by the Action Committee on American-Arab Relations, which argues that Senator Kennedy was a victim of Zionism and of an ‘immoral’ exchange of sympathy for Israel for Jewish votes at home, and that in shooting him, Sirhan B. Sirhan acted certainly illegally and unwisely but not necessarily immorally.’
narciso (87e966) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:08 pmYou would think Newt Gingrich would know the rules and also what people actually would do. The actual time of the Robo calls should be verified in some way, and why didn’t they place radio ads, or newspaper advertisements which might have been much better? They wouldn’t cost so much.
Just because it’s never been done doesn’t mean it wouldn’t work. But asking people to come in makes a whole lot better sense than sending out petition gatherers for someone with wide name recognition and support, so at least they got that right but maybe too late and only as a last resort.
I think write-ins have to be legal under the 14th amendment or something – but ordinary election rules don’t apply to presidential primary elections. The Supreme Court has ruled that presidential conventions are considered private meetings and they can make their own rules (but aren’t ballot access rules for presidential candidates tied to that? I think legally a party makes the decision. In no state since 1960 has a state party put any name on the ballot other than the e person who got the nomination at the national convention.)
Newt Gingrich could still mount a write-in campaign even if the votes weren’t counted and then mount a credentials challenge at the convention. He might also keep news organizations from counting all, or nearly all, of Virginia’s delegates as certain for Romney. And he could try maybe to get the Virginia Republican Party to change its rules.
Sammy Finkelman (b17872) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:16 pmComment by Kevin M — 12/24/2011 @ 10:08 am
Gingrich, Perry and at least Bachmann should sue, claiming unconstitutional limits on electoral participation and (if you believe the polls) a disenfranchisement of the majority of Virginia’s Republican voters.
He may very well sue, but he doesn’t have much grounds. He might try pushing in the Republican National Committee to disqualify Virginia if they didn’t fix this and in the meantime maybe also organize caucuses in Virginia on the same day as the primary and try for a credentials challenge.
The problem evidently occurred because although Virginia had a petition requirement for many years, nobody ever verified the names before, so nobody in Virginia had any experience with this.
The old rules had required that every petition signer’s full Social Security number be included on the petition, and I suppose very few people did that. I am speculating, but perhaps before only candidates could challenge petitions, and under the rules every candidate could have been disqualified, so nobody was.
But this time, only the last 4 digits of the Social Security number were required (are they recorded in the state’s voter registration records?) and the state party did its own verification.
Only the Romney and Ron Paul campaign were professional enough to fulfill the requirements – the Romney campaign because he hired people and the Ron Paul campaign because Libertarians are good at this sort of stuff and those are his contacts.
Sammy Finkelman (b17872) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:29 pmComment by Sammy Finkelman — 12/24/2011 @ 7:58 pm
Just because a system is infested with lawyers, does not make it a fair or free election. The only legitimate reason to have ballot qualification rules is to make it difficult for fringe candidates without meaningful support to clutter up the ballot. Making it onerous does not accomplish that, it only means that professional politicians (and likely only machine politicians), or those newbies able to hire professional staff and signature gatherers can compete.
In any event the voters of Virginia are the losers and any one of them would seem to have standing to sue the Republican Party of Virginia for failing to provide a primary election of any meaning.
Again I point out that the excluded candidates are the preferred candidates of 66% of the voters. Take out the 13% undecided, and you have two candidates who TOGETHER command the support of 21% vying for all the delegates.
Sarah W should sue.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:39 pmThat answers 241 as well
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:48 pm177. I’m with Kevin on this one, all the sewage is in the GOP’s face.
gary gulrud (d88477) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:52 pmYou would think Newt Gingrich would know the rules and also what people actually would do.
Big difference running of a Congressional seat in a state like Georgia, and in competing in 50 separate primaries each with their own (and changing) rules.
Party primaries are still subject to the 14th amendment, or do you think they can still have whites-only rules like the Dems used to in the South?
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:53 pmSarah is smarter than you Colonel.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/24/2011 @ 8:53 pmI’m almost done here, but I thought I’d mention a parting note:
Back in 1980, Reagan was to debate the other candidates at a venue in New Hampshire, but somewhere along the way the sponsoring organization decided to make it just Reagan and George Bush.
Reagan did not like this, and invited the other candidates to show up and take part. George Bush (who wanted to be seen as “Reagan’s competitor”) tried to force the host to keep it to just the two of them.
Verbal push came to verbal shove, and the hosts decided to turn off Ronald Reagan’s microphone, and he won the nomination with his next sentence: “I’m PAYING for this microphone, Mr Green”.
Gaming the system and forcing rules that do not serve the voters is not always the way to win friends in the Republican Party. Just ask George Bush.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:01 pmComment by narciso — 12/24/2011 @ 8:08 pm
This fellow, Sammy, and it’s Abdel not Abdul,
also the getaway driver is still at large almost
20 years later,
Mehdi has since died. I checked andyes the Wikipedia article is Omar Abdel-Rahman so I guess that’s the way it shows up more often. The New York Times also has it that way but as 3 separate words unlike Wikipedia where the last two names are hyphenated. It was a spelling variation that got him into the country. He applied in the Sudan for an immigrant visa (as a religious cleric where there is no quota) on a day when the computers were down so his name was not checked against a terrorism list. He had been involved in the assassination of Sadat. The organization he headed was Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya (the Islamic Group) was a similar organization to Al Zawahiri’s Egyptian Islamic Jihad. It’s all one big thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_Abdel-Rahman
During the 1970s, Abdel-Rahman developed close ties with two of Egypt’s most militant organizations, Egyptian Islamic Jihad and Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya (“The Islamic Group”). By the 1980s, he had emerged as the leader of Al-Gama’a al-Islamiyya, although he was still revered by followers of Egyptian Islamic Jihad, which at the time was being led by Ayman al-Zawahiri, later to become an Al Qaeda principal. Abdel-Rahman spent three years in Egyptian jails where he was tortured[citation needed] as he awaited trial on charges of issuing a fatwa resulting in the 1981 assassination of Anwar Sadat by Egyptian Islamic Jihad.
Afghan mujaheddin
Although Abdel-Rahman was not convicted of conspiracy in the Sadat assassination, he was expelled from Egypt following his acquittal. He made his way to Afghanistan in the mid-1980s where he contacted his former professor, Abdullah Azzam, co-founder of Maktab al-Khadamat (MAK) along with Osama bin Laden. Rahman built a strong rapport with bin Laden during the Afghan war against the Soviets, and following Azzam’s murder in 1989 Rahman assumed control of the international jihadists arm of MAK/Al Qaeda.[citation needed]
In July 1990, Abdel-Rahman went to New York City to gain control of MAK’s financial and organizational infrastructure in the United States.
Abdullah Azzam was assassinated in 1988 and Osama bin Laden took over. The Wikipedia article says he came to the United States on a tourist visa, but actually he was turned down. He then applied for and came to the United States on an immigrant visa.
What get-away driver are we talking about. The intended taxi driver for Nosair at the assassination of Kahane (Nosair got into the wrong cab) Mohammed Abohalima was convicted in 1998 for driving his brother Mahmoud to the airport after the Feb 26, 1993 attack.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1842&dat=19981125&id=ok4gAAAAIBAJ&sjid=NccEAAAAIBAJ&pg=2498,3870935
Who remains from the World Trade Center bombing who wasn’t caught? Ramzi Youssef (who actually trained the bombers) was caught in Pakistan two years later. Ramzi Youssef isn’t his name at all – that was just an name on a passport. I think he also trained Terry Nichols in the Philipines.
Ramzi Youssef left the United States right after the bombing – I thought the same thing happened after Sept 11, 2001 – that is, on September 12, 2001 I did not think Al Qaeda left anyone in the United States and so I did not think anything could happen for at least a few months and more like a year and a half – events have demonstrated that was correct. There was and is nobody still here. (Zacarias Moussaoui was under arrest and had he not been arrested he probably would have been told to leave the United States)
Sammy Finkelman (b17872) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:03 pmBTW, is it just me or is the noise content of this thread particularly high? One out and out troll and two non sequitur generators.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:06 pm(not you sammy, although that last was kinda off topic)
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:08 pm“BTW, is it just me or is the noise content of this thread particularly high?”
Yes. A lot of blame shifting and unsupported conspiracy theories floating around. People have obviously been learning from Obama and the Democrats.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:13 pmat this point, we don’t (afaik) know who decided on that threshold figure and when they did so. it would sound more credible if the threshold was determined on before Romney knew he had 15,000. (Or did Romney go for 15,000 because he knew that was the threshold?)
I’m not at all sure what use providing the SSN would have in the process, whether it’s the full number or the last four digits.
I think the GOP establishment would prefer Romney because they think he’s the one best positioned to beat Obama. They’re probably not at all concerned about how conservative he is. But that’s the problem the GOP base has with the establishment in one sentence, isn’t it? I think it’s telling that the standard sentence in all establishment punditry about Paul lately is “but it doesn’t matter because he won’t be nominated”. That’s the ultimate disqualification in their eyes–lack of electability. (And part of that repetition is some magical thinking–if they say it often enough, then people will really believe whatever Paul does doesn’t really matter.)
JBS (a6ffde) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:17 pm“I wonder. Had Perry come up with 15k, whose to say Romney wouldn’t have had 17k, and that have been the threshold.”
Dustin – Maybe because 15,000 was the announced Safe Harbor threshold and the procedures for what would happen if you turned in less than 15,000 signatures also announced, but that’s just my interpretation.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:21 pmThis fellow, mentioned here;
http://web.me.com/netgraph1/peterlance.com/Second_Gunman_in_Kahane_Murder.html
narciso (87e966) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:29 pmthe OWS and their supporters are useful idiot dupes for the communists in charge.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:36 pmThe WWF always using the polar bears are dying off malarky to support their gorebull warming aenda.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:39 pmGreat comments, Kevin M.
JBS, that’s an interesting question that I don’t think we have an answer to. We may never be told, but we deserve to be.
Yeah, that seems to be a tactic.
Anyway, shameful situation, in my opinion.
Dustin (cb3719) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:39 pmagenda*
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/24/2011 @ 9:39 pmwell I know who’s running for president and you know who’s running for president
it’s just some dimbulb Rs in Virginia what will be scratching their heads
they’ve disenfranchised their own people, and for what?
to the everlasting glory of a massachusetts poofter who invented obamacare.
After he wins he can kneel down and do a Tebow most glorious but only his perenially knocked up stepford hoochie and his ungodly large brood will care
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/24/2011 @ 10:31 pmOn the twelfth day of Christmas, Eric’s true love gave to him:
Icy (5fb4dc) — 12/24/2011 @ 11:53 pm12 Pats moderating
11 Newts not filing
10 Romneys flip-flopping
9 Dustins agreeing
8 Cains a-raping
7 Palins taxing
6 lying JDs
5 a-ass pulls!
4 keyboards failing
3 ad homs
2 million Jooos
And a Perry in the White House!!!
Why should a conservative vote with progressive nerds as the frontrunners?
sickofrinos (44de53) — 12/25/2011 @ 3:27 amThe establishment gop is wrong , has been wrong, and will continue to be wrong.
If you idiots would have lived in Mass. during mitts layover, you would come to an educated decision, not to believe his lying morman ass.
It’s all a matter of perception;
http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/12/how_polls_poison_the_well_of_citizenship.html
narciso (87e966) — 12/25/2011 @ 6:15 amComment by sickofrinos — 12/25/2011 @ 3:27 am
You had me until you modified “ass”.
BTW, Icy, is that “8 Cains a-raping” or “a-rapping”?
AD-RtR/OS! (2bdbab) — 12/25/2011 @ 7:32 amI think it’s telling that the standard sentence in all establishment punditry about Paul lately is “but it doesn’t matter because he won’t be nominated”
I can show you lots of intelligent people who said the same thing about Gingrich last August.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/25/2011 @ 7:43 am“The sense had been growing that the GOP race was effectively over barring a major surprise in Iowa from Rick Perry or Rick Santorum, but this news out of Virginia is very revealing about the lack of general election preparedness of every organization except Team Romney. The only thing that the president has going for him is a political organization honed by a half-dozen years in the field and a well-refined ruthlessness when it comes to tactics. It is hard to imagine an organization that cannot gather 10,000 signatures over many months staying on the field with the Chicago gang much less outmaneuvering them in the week to week battles of the year ahead.
Fence sitters among the electeds who were waiting to see if there would be a prolonged contest have got to be spending their Christmas Eves wrapping gifts and considering that Mitt Romney has this campaign in hand and that a quick conclusion to the primary season would be in the interests of everyone. Watch for endorsements next week before Iowa caucuses and certainly before New Hampshire votes.”
http://www.hughhewitt.com/blog/g/ac1fe39c-6eeb-40a3-b69d-bbc871c98b1f
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/25/2011 @ 8:10 amGorebull Warming isn’t real
50% of Polar Bears won’t be gone in 50 years because of it they will be gone by other means.
They can swim.
Sorry for the off topic.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/25/2011 @ 8:17 amHugh’s a nice guy, but to say he’s partial to Romney is an understatement
http://junkscience.com/2011/12/24/reindeer-threatened-by-global-warming-oil-drilling/
narciso (87e966) — 12/25/2011 @ 8:24 amWe all have a bias, narciso. Merry Christmas!
In the coming New Year, 2012, both Groundhog Day and the State of the Union address will occur on the same day.
This is an ironic juxtaposition of events.
One involves a meaningless ritual in which we look to an insignificant creature of little intelligence for prognostication.
The other involves a groundhog.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/25/2011 @ 9:08 ambesides, nice and brilliant ain’t a bad combo.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/25/2011 @ 9:17 amLOL, and Punxhatawney Phil has a better track record.
narciso (87e966) — 12/25/2011 @ 9:21 amWait polar bears won’t be gone sorry.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/25/2011 @ 9:30 amLook Polar Bears won’t be gone for a long time.
I corrected my sentence because It was wrong.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/25/2011 @ 9:30 amOh, Hugh. Obamacare preserved and a VAT?
How about no.
Romney is dead to me. He should be dead to you.
Sarahw (2d1917) — 12/25/2011 @ 9:40 amKevin, I said the same thing about Gingrich last August, and before August.
Paul is a crazy pants joke. He takes Virginia? In this context, it means screw you Romney and the Irish setter on your roof-rack. Oh, and VA GOP, too.
Sarahw (2d1917) — 12/25/2011 @ 9:48 amRest assured, Dick Lugar is singing the same chorus,
narciso (87e966) — 12/25/2011 @ 9:49 amwe would have the Senate majority ‘if not for you rotten kids’
#274… much craziness, no?
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/25/2011 @ 9:50 amLook… whoever wins the nomination should be supported. Leave the nuttiness and far fringe behavior for the other side, or you will be counted among the other side.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/25/2011 @ 9:53 am“The only thing that the president has going for him is a political organization honed by a half-dozen years in the field and a well-refined ruthlessness when it comes to tactics.”
They said the same about Rove, and nearly lost to Kerry who, like Obama, was a man of few parts.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/25/2011 @ 9:57 amSarah–
I would suggest that the next VA GOP business meeting be attended by the Tea Party. In force.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/25/2011 @ 9:59 am#277
I think I would rather have Obama for 4 more years, and let the Democrats take the blame for the catastrophe, than have the Republicans eat sh*t for a century for what Ron Paul would wreck. And I’m in the Libertarian wing.
If two absolute nutters are running for president, why would I want my nutter to win? I’m open to a reason….
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/25/2011 @ 10:02 amObama also has operatives working to create much mischief and dissension. Be on the look out for “friendly fire”.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/25/2011 @ 10:03 amThe fact that this process in Virginia has been going on for several months and that some of our candidates’ staffs lack the organizational skills required to collect the specified number of signatures is telling in and of itself.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/25/2011 @ 10:08 amOne question, that comes to mind, how many people lost money listening to that investment newsletter,
narciso (87e966) — 12/25/2011 @ 10:10 amComment by narciso — 12/25/2011 @ 9:49 am
Dick Lug-gar misses being called “Mr. Chairman”.
AD-RtR/OS! (2bdbab) — 12/25/2011 @ 10:28 amComment by Kevin M — 12/25/2011 @ 10:02 am
Which “nutter” would you prefer to nominate SC Justices, and other positions on the Federal Bench?
AD-RtR/OS! (2bdbab) — 12/25/2011 @ 10:30 am“nutter” is a relative term. I reserve it for the Jack D. Rippers of the liberal and libertarian fringe.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/25/2011 @ 10:44 amPOE… Purity. Of. Essence.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/25/2011 @ 10:45 amI haven’t seen so much whining and finger pointing since Obama’s last speech on his Jobs Act.
Merry Christmas.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/25/2011 @ 10:55 amI would be less skeptical, if not for the Murkowski matter, where the opposite standard was applied,
narciso (87e966) — 12/25/2011 @ 11:03 amhttp://blogs.wsj.com/totalreturn/2011/12/21/the-ron-paul-portfolio/
narciso (87e966) — 12/25/2011 @ 11:09 amCraziness means disagreement………..only in romney land.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/25/2011 @ 11:11 amthe obamawhore media really bad bad bad wants Team R to choose a cowardly whore as their nominee for the second time in a row… and this time around it’s Wall Street Romney what best fits the bill
I might vote for him but only cause I’ll have concluded that a cowardly whore is exactly the leadership that America deserves anymore
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/25/2011 @ 11:48 amHave fun with all this wonderful invective! I particularly like the nasty comments about Romney’s wife. Class all the way.
And you are helping Obama. Remember that, folks.
Don’t get me wrong; it’s fine to debate and disagree. But the level of nastiness is remarkable.
It cost us 2008. Why not another four years?
Jesus Christ.
Simon Jester (ef9f12) — 12/25/2011 @ 11:54 amnastiness is completely apropos to any discussion of American politics … no nation has squandered so much so fast as our once-proud little one… and today we are become a whorish and depraved little country, and the quality of our would-be leadership evinces this most perspicaciously for all to see. None of the Team R candidates look like for reals Americans – weirdos and fops and bigots the lot of them.
Mustn’t put lipstick on a pig. It is what it is.
But for what it’s worth I think Mr. Gingrich is the most realistic and least cartoonish one, followed by Mr. Perry.
But jeez that’s not saying a whole bunch is it.
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/25/2011 @ 12:09 pmand, to be clear, the abject simpering coward Team R nominated in 2008 had no more business being president than the Soros toady you half-wit Americans preferred by a large margin
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/25/2011 @ 12:11 pmthe abject simpering coward Team R nominated in 2008
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/25/2011 @ 12:14 pm“None of the Team R candidates look like for reals Americans – weirdos and fops and bigots the lot of them.”
What in the Hell is the matter with you?!?! I think you’re projecting.
General Malaise (3a849c) — 12/25/2011 @ 12:33 pmI think you’re wrong with respect to thinking I’m projecting Mr. General. I think actually the Team R candidates are weirdos and fops and bigots the lot of them and that you might could be in denial.
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/25/2011 @ 12:36 pmMcCain has his faults, but he would’ve made a better president than the current occupant of the Oval Office. You serve no one but the Democrats with your over-the-top peevishness.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/25/2011 @ 12:36 pmIf you’re not calling someone a whore, you’re calling them a fop or a bigot.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/25/2011 @ 12:38 pmIn what universe? How do you distinguish him from a troll?
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 12/25/2011 @ 12:38 pmhe would’ve made a better president than the current occupant of the Oval Office
yes I agree that’s why I dishonored my house and went over to a little park in studio city and voted for him
but that doesn’t mean he would’ve made a good president by a long shot
we were asked to choose amongst degrees of wretchedness in 2008 and it looks likely that we’ll be faced with the same choice in 2012
the only thing different is that a Team R president, however wretched and cowardly, will have lots of low-hanging fruit to pick and set towards the betterment of our sickly little country’s condition, so baleful and malicious obama has been
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/25/2011 @ 12:43 pmIf you’re not calling someone a whore, you’re calling them a fop or a bigot.
I think it’s Huntsman what stands as the only R what hasn’t signed the Bigot Pledge, and I don’t think many would dispute his foppishness.
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/25/2011 @ 12:47 pmWho knew that an anonymous pikachu could be so fracking awesome and macho and…accomplished?
But I think you are just looking for attention with your hatefulness. Which brings us back to projection.
Thanks in advance for all your tough, incisive work getting this crew out of the Oval Office.
Simon Jester (ef9f12) — 12/25/2011 @ 1:02 pmwho said I was accomplished or awesome or macho?
why are you getting all personal… I just don’t like the foppish cowardly weirdo bigots Team R wants me to choose amongst and moreover I think it’s meaningful that I’m presented with a menu of foppish cowardly weirdo bigots at such a critical and decisive time when our little country faces issues of sustainability more threatening than any ever before
what else I think is meaningful is how chary the Team R cowards are about criticizing Obama for getting our little country’s credit downgraded
it’s almost as if the one thing they know with an unflinching certitude is that a further downgrade is inevitable during the term they hope to serve
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/25/2011 @ 1:08 pmAll Religions have things that put them in a bad light.
Mormons included.
Crappyfeet is a pussy.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/25/2011 @ 1:17 pmam not
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/25/2011 @ 1:19 pmYeah sorry I insulted pussies.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/25/2011 @ 1:20 pmIn what universe? How do you distinguish him from a troll?
He doesn’t live under a Norwegian bridge.
Comment by narciso — 12/25/2011 @ 11:09 am
However, the good Mr. Bernstein, however efficient he is at managing portfolios, does not seem to take into consideration the possibility that Rep. Paul, like many other people, has come to view the stock market as a game in which traders are exchanging live hand grenades in the hope that when one goes off, they won’t be holding it. A sort of cross between Ponzi and musical chairs.
Not that gold or other metals would do well in a collapse–it’s only a guess at what commodity people will find most vital to trade in if the dollar really does go off the deep end.
JBS (2d88a8) — 12/25/2011 @ 1:20 pmSF: Who remains from the World Trade Center bombing who wasn’t caught?
I vaguely remembered someone who fled to Iraq and then wasn’t found after the U.S. invasion in 2003. I had to do quote a bit of reading in the Peter Lance books (which I have not thoroughly read) to stumble on his name: Abdul Rahman Yasin. He was a roommate of Mohammd Salameh and kept trying to teach him how to drive a truck. He was born in Bloomington Indiana but grew up in Iraq. He got a passport in Jordan in 1992.
After the bombing he was interviewed by the FBI and treated as a co-operating witness who had no training in explosives and no knowledge of the plot, but evidently he didn’t expect this to last and he boarded a plane and went to Iraq. The FBI tried to use his brother to get him to come back but that didn’t work. That’s one of the reasons people had for saying Saddam Hussein was behind the World Trade Center bombing, although a lot more didn’t fit and this could be explained any number of ways.
On May 23, 2002 Yasin was interviewed by 60 Minutes correspondent Leslie Stahl while being held in an Iraqi prison where he claimed that Ramzi Youssef told them what he wanted to do was blow up Jewish neighborhoods in Brooklyn, and scouted Williamsburg and Crown Heights, but then told them that they should do one big explosion rather than a series of little ones.
And he pointed them to the World Trade Center and claimed to them that a majority of the people who worked there were Jews.
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/06/01/us/suspect-in-1993-bombing-says-trade-center-wasn-t-first-target.html?scp=4&sq=yasin&st=cse
It doesn’t follow, even if what Yasin said here was true, that any of this was Youssef’s actual reasoning. It just could have been a means to get the Sheik and his people to shift away from Jewish targets.
When U.S. troops arrived in Baghdad Yasin was no longer there. You would think somebody would be able to find out something but he’s as missing as Saddam Hussein’s stockpile of chemical weapons.
But this isn’t the person whom Narciso was talking about.
http://web.me.com/netgraph1/peterlance.com/Second_Gunman_in_Kahane_Murder.html
The name here is Bilal Alkaisi, who Peter lance says, besides being a second gunman in the Kahane killing, was also indicted in the World Trade Center bombing as well as the shooter in the nurder of Mustafa Shalabi, the Egyptian who ran the Alkifah Center at the Brooklyn Mosque which Omar Abdel Rahman took over. The Peter Lance book “1000 Years for revenge” says that Shalabi was appointed to (and presumably loyal to) Abdullah Azzam whose organization Osama bin Laden took over after he as assassinated so he wasn’t even half a good guy, just on the wrong side in a “war”
I can’t find Alkaisi in the index of any of the 3 Peter Lance books, so he’s really obscure.
The New York Times reported on May 5, 1994 that he reached a plea bargain and agreed to be deported to any country except Jordan.
http://www.nytimes.com/1994/05/10/nyregion/trade-center-defendant-agrees-to-a-plea-bargain.html
The government had claimed they didn’t have enough evidence to convict him. his case had been severed from the others. The New York Times reported in July 1994 that he got 20 months (on the immigration lying charge he pleaded guilty
This is a 205 FBI 302 with Nosair.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/35687185/FBI-302-El-Sayyid-Nosair-12-20-05
Sammy Finkelman (b17872) — 12/25/2011 @ 1:24 pmThe left to protest Bilal Alkaisi’s arrest. in 2…1…0…
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/25/2011 @ 1:34 pmPikachu has a nasty tourette’s like tic, it does no good to call Ann Romney, who is in recovery from cancer, such a word, that only fits in the mouth
narciso (87e966) — 12/25/2011 @ 3:31 pmof a wretched nazgul like Bill Maher, then again he
is equally foulmouthed about the only person that
tried to salvage that Andrea Dorea of a campaign,
maybe because of her ickey lifeydoodleness, which
I like to call conviction, crazy notion,
Comment by Kevin M — 12/24/2011 @ 8:53 pm
Party primaries are still subject to the 14th amendment, or do you think they can still have whites-only rules like the Dems used to in the South?
Those cases were decided before the decision that upheld the seating of Jesse Jackson’s delegates instead of (or in addition to) Mayor Daley’s elected delegates at the 1972 Democratic convention, but I think the decisions about primaries were based on state involvement. The 14th amendment (equal protection) does apply to primaries – what does not apply is the right of delagates elected in primaries to be seated.
Somebody seems to have gotten the ideea across that write-in votes are illegal in Virginia – they are not illegal, they are “not legal” votes – that is not counted maybe.
There have been court cases involving ballot access in presidential primaries that have been won. I found this one:
http://www.brennancenter.org/content/resource/molinari_v_powers/
Also this: http://www.law.cornell.edu/background/ballot/
There’s also this: http://www.law.cornell.edu/background/ballot/forbes3.htm
he argument is that ballot access requirement can place an undue burden on the First and Fourteenth Amendment rights to vote and to associate with political parties. But this is a case where the Democratic and Republican parties had different rules.
These were the rules (I think for 1996) Virginia did not have a primary then:
STATE SIGNATURES REQUIRED
Alabama 500 statewide or 50 per congressional district
Alaska No Primary
Arizona 0
Arkansas 0
California 0 if candidate is generally recognized in the media
Colorado 5000 statewide or $500 fee
Connecticut 0 if candidate is generally recognized in media
Delaware 500 statewide or 0 if candidate qualifies for matching funds
Dist. of Columbia 1000 or 1%
Florida 0
Georgia 0
Hawaii No Primary
Idaho 0 if candidate is generally recognized media
Illinois 3000 statewide
Indiana 5000 statewide, including 500 from each congressional district
Iowa No Primary
Kansas 1000 statewide or $100 fee
Kentucky 0 if candidate qualifies for matching funds or 5000 statewide
Louisiana 1000 per congressional district or $750 filing fee
Maine 0
Maryland 0 if candidate is generally recognized in the media
Massachusetts 0 if candidate is generally recognized in the media
Michigan 0 if candidate is generally recognized in the media
Minnesota 2000 statewide or $500 fee
Mississippi 0 if candidate is generally recognized in the media
Missouri No Primary
Montana 2000 statewide
Nebraska 0 if candidate is generally recognized in the media
Nevada No Primary
New Hampshire 0 if candidate is generally recognized in the media
New Jersey 1000 statewide
New Mexico 0 if candidate is generally recognized in the media
New York 5% or 1250 in each congressional district
North Carolina 0 if candidate is generally recognized in the media
North Dakota 300 statewide
Ohio 0 if candidate is eligible to receive matching funds
Oklahoma 1000 per congressional district or $2500 fee
Oregon 0 if candidate is generally recognized in the media
Pennsylvania 2000 statewide
Rhode Island 1000 statewide
South Carolina 0
South Dakota 0
Tennessee 0 if candidate is generally recognized in the media
Texas 0 (unless required by party rule)
Utah No Primary
Vermont 1000 statewide and $500 fee
Virginia No Primary
Washington 0 if candidate is generally recognized in the media
West Virginia 1% of presidential salary or 4 signatures for each dollar of fee
Wisconsin 0 if candidate is generally recognized in the media
Wyoming No Primary
You can see New York is pretty hard but otherwise 10,000 with 400 in each district is a much tougher than average requirement.
Sammy Finkelman (b17872) — 12/25/2011 @ 5:18 pmhttp://www.varight.com/news/virginia-may-have-improperly-excluded-signatures-from-perry-gingrich-a-recount-may-be-needed/
narciso (87e966) — 12/25/2011 @ 5:35 pmDo I understand this right – that Romney’s petitions were not subjected to examination, simply because he filed more than 15,000 signatures?
Sammy Finkelman (b17872) — 12/25/2011 @ 5:54 pmI don’t know Sammy, but it wouldn’t surprise me,
narciso (87e966) — 12/25/2011 @ 6:06 pmno Mr. narciso if Wall Street Romney can viciously attack Newt’s marriagings than it’s fair to ask weird stupid Ann why she let Wall Street Romney turn her uterus into a clown car
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/25/2011 @ 6:52 pmIn 1992, there was an attempt to write in Ross Perot’s name on the Republican primary ballot. While write-ins were legal, one had to notify the Sec of State of one’s intention to run a write-in campaign. Perot hadn’t done that, so it was announced that such write-ins would not be counted.
Since the primary was in June and George Bush had wrapped the nomination up, the point was to serve notice that Republicans were fed up with Bush’s increased spending and tax hikes. Many wrote in Perot’s name anyway, and while it wasn’t counted directly, 325,000 more people voted for a Republican candidate for Senator than for a Republican candidate for President, implying that some 300,000 or more folks wrote in Perot in the Republican primary
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/25/2011 @ 7:07 pmD’oh. #318 In CALIFORNIA.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/25/2011 @ 7:08 pmno Mr. narciso if Wall Street Romney can viciously attack Newt’s marriagings than it’s fair to ask weird stupid Ann why she let Wall Street Romney turn her uterus into a clown car
What the f*ck business is that of yours? You are either ChiCom or just plain nuts.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/25/2011 @ 7:13 pm“viciously attack”… sheesh. Bet you’re a barrel of laughs to be around.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/25/2011 @ 7:14 pmyou would win that bet my good Colonel
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/25/2011 @ 7:19 pmoh. *then* it’s fair I mean
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/25/2011 @ 7:21 pmHe was raised by mutant wolves, contaminated with the T4 virus, there isn’t another explanation,
narciso (87e966) — 12/25/2011 @ 7:24 pmoh. Beezus is her older sister I always thought it was her dog.
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/25/2011 @ 7:26 pmPsalm 133 verse 1
Hope y’all had a good Christmas and get to enjoy Boxing Day tomorrow. And remember the banks and post office are closed.
JBS (510a0a) — 12/25/2011 @ 7:53 pmThanks for setting me straight, narciso, LOL!
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/25/2011 @ 8:45 pmAs much as this helps Paul, I’m not a fan of this. Something stinks to high heaven. Who’s pulling the strings on this primary?
Ghost (f47969) — 12/25/2011 @ 8:54 pmpikachu, has a deep disrespect of the wimminfolk,
narciso (87e966) — 12/25/2011 @ 9:07 pmone of the things he shares with Obama. We can have policy disagreements without beinf disagreeable, I know it’s a lost art.
I didn’t know we were disagreeing I thought the point was no matter how odious the nominee might be we have to vote for them… even if it’s a cowardly poofter like Wall Street Romney
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/25/2011 @ 9:10 pmOne can take issue with Masscare, the RGGI, his tepid support of the Iranian dissidents, his acceptance of the sacking of the GM CEO, that worked out well, but there’s no need to bring
narciso (87e966) — 12/25/2011 @ 9:23 pmhis wife into it.
but Newt’s wives are fair game according to Wall Street Romney
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/25/2011 @ 10:01 pmI hope crappyfeet gets run over by reindeer.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/25/2011 @ 10:35 pmApparent good article on Princess:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/25/us/politics/how-harvard-shaped-mitt-romney.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss&pagewanted=all
America needs a leader not a manager, but a good COS if one could somehow satisfy the ego and pay up.
Lying crud.
gary gulrud (d88477) — 12/25/2011 @ 11:19 pmMeanwhile Woodward whose first big scoop actually obscured a proxy fight with Nixon, rolls back the wayback machine;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?node=admin/registration/register&destination=login&nextstep=gather&application=reg30-p
narciso (87e966) — 12/25/2011 @ 11:24 pmBTW, Icy, is that “8 Cains a-raping” or “a-rapping”?
Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 12/25/2011 @ 7:32 am
— RACIST!!!!
[it was, of course, “a-raping” in honor of EricFalseAccusationJohnson’s outrageous claims]
Icy (7becc9) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:24 amThe establishment gop has sold out the core of it’s voters.
sickofrinos (44de53) — 12/26/2011 @ 3:19 amThey think they have us all locked up to vote mittens, because of the supreme court judge nominations. The rnc has not hit bottom yet, but will when they get spanked by ofungus. Republicans in charge are a cesspool of knowledge. Paul\Kucinich2012! Heh.
Well they are never satisfied, they think they took a flyer on that barbarian Nixon, when a little more pushing for Nelson would have done the trick, as we discovered with Epstein’s ‘Agency of Fear’ they traced the drugwar, to his great grandfather’s potion selling business,
narciso (87e966) — 12/26/2011 @ 5:22 amHere’s a better link;
http://legalinsurrection.com/2011/12/they-were-wrong-in-1990-and-they-are-wrong-now/
narciso (87e966) — 12/26/2011 @ 5:53 amI can’t vote for a person who’s dead to me, and VAT-head is. Enjoy your sweet surrender and the odious Bachmann is supposed to somehow be your reward…though probably a very deserved one.
This time meh is not enough; in Virginia anyway, spoiler action is the only hope.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 12/26/2011 @ 6:04 am“… who is supposed”
Sarahw (b0e533) — 12/26/2011 @ 6:05 am315 Sammy Finkleman – yes an that smells a bit.VA GOP raked over Perry and Newt’s petition sigs to find enough to discard them as candidates along with the signatures, and were VERY zealous in their efforts. None of VAT-head’s were scrutinized or even looked over. The rules are rather more arcane and complicated than most people have apprehended, I think.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 12/26/2011 @ 6:13 amThey have given reasons to vote against, but not run for, rest assure they will carve him up last, but they will do it nonetheless;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/mitt-romneys-secret-money/2011/12/23/gIQAbTZmHP_story.html
narciso (87e966) — 12/26/2011 @ 6:13 amI have this strange feeling of deja vu circa 2007;
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/many-iowans-struggle-with-political-indecision/2011/12/20/gIQADyfSHP_story.html?hpid=z1
narciso (87e966) — 12/26/2011 @ 6:43 amit’s all just so bleak
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 6:58 amCap’n Ed waxes idiotic this morning
Mitt Romney is as cowardly milquetoast establishment as you can ever hope to find
this is why doddering Bush senior has given him his blessing, to say nothing of that rancid crone Nancy Reagan
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:06 amA little over the mark, maybe the Battle of the Crater, (a book plug) or Bull Run w ould have been more apt.
narciso (87e966) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:11 amSometimes they are too obvious;
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/12/is-the-fix-in-virginia-gop-eliminates-4-of-top-6-republican-candidates-from-republican-primary/
narciso (87e966) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:17 amEd, bless him, loves Michelle Bachmann. you know who that helps?
Sarahw (b0e533) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:22 amI met Ed for a moment, nice guy, that was a tone deaf thing to say, Newt, and Bachmann’s the hometown gal, or thereabouts,
narciso (87e966) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:27 ambut to imply that Gingrich is beloved by the establishment is moronic
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:30 amPretty much. They definitely prefer him out of contention here.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:49 amthe pouting chilluns
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:54 ampromised they would be so bad
and Santa scrooed ’em
In Virginia, the fussy rules were fussy, but not generally adhered to strictly. here is ONE reason why they were this time, although it is almost being used as an excuse this time:
Sarahw (b0e533) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:55 amhttp://www.ballot-access.org/2011/12/25/virginia-2011-independent-candidate-for-legislature-has-big-impact-on-2012-presidential-primary/
Brilliant move, worthy of Captain Tupelev, (the sub commander who was blown up by his own torpedo at
narciso (87e966) — 12/26/2011 @ 8:01 amthe end of ‘Red October’)
Given that the Ballot Access Requirements adopted and published by the State Board of Elections earlier in 2011 suggested that candidates obtain 15,000-20,000 signatures, including 700 from each Congressional District, due to issues with invalid signatures, you have to wonder whether the above suggestions was just made for shits and giggles and candidates should ignore it at their own peril.
http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/cms/documents/Cidates/Bulletins/20120306PrimaryBulletin.pdf
[note: released from moderation. –Stashiu]
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 8:08 ama vote for ron paul!
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 8:08 amgirl said I’ll do one better
I’ll burn this house down
voting for Ron Paul in Virginia is a perfectly rational response to the shameful disenfranchisement the state Rs have contrived
This shouldn’t accrue to the benefit of Wall Street Romney.
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 8:11 amkneels to line up putt
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 8:12 amskinny smug crackhead breaks wind
you know who this helps
turns nose up at “fish”
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 8:16 amskips to lePoof’s down the street
tasty vegan cakes
I’m a be eating soul foozle lately I have one I can walk to!
it’s so delicious it’s hard to convince people how delicious it is
they make a hot dog wif collard greens and it makes you cry it’s so good
but my new year’s resolution, which I’m starting today for so I have momentum, is to not eat out at lunch
but just knowing those tasty soul doggy dogs are there is very reassuring
plus they have a “southern veggie basket” where you can pick three sides – usually I get the cabbage and the yams and the fried okra plus you get tasty cornbread
I still have to work my way through all the dogs and I haven’t tried their black-eyed peas yet but I’m a pick some of theirs up for new year’s
just for me and my friends though Wall Street Romney can buy his own
loser
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 8:35 amalso the fried chicken is sick how good it is
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 8:36 amRepublican presidential candidates fail to meet published Virginia ballot access requirements.
Supporters blame state.
Are supporters suggesting candidates be allowed ballot access the Democrat way, with invalid signatures?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 8:49 amNotice how that happy feet person loves the word “coward”? I guess that makes him brave. Right.
Simon Jester (ef9f12) — 12/26/2011 @ 8:54 amhere’s a New Year’s wish: here’s to hoping him a pick up a good case of dysentery.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 8:57 amCome now, Colonel; a bit of mercy for the sick, please! The man what called Nancy Reagan a “rancid crone” already has diarrhea of the keyboard.
Icy (7becc9) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:09 amRancid Crone applies to Citgo’s useful idiot Joe Kennedy.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:12 amDaleyrocks, I’m in the state, and I blame the state. The rules are more complicated and their enforcement more mercurial than I think many have understood.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:19 amshe’s “in the state”
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:22 amthe conspiracy runs deep
state of Confusion
colonel blames water
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:24 amVirginia treats water
with the flouride
where her keys and purse?
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:27 amkneecapped but in for pound and
not a penny more
his sweet cream lady
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:31 amcolonel egged when should have nogged
baby wrote letter
“Daleyrocks, I’m in the state, and I blame the state.”
Sarahw – I respect your opinion, but I see the published rules.
http://www.sbe.virginia.gov/cms/documents/Cidates/Bulletins/20120306PrimaryBulletin.pdf
When the State Board of Elections puts out suggestions earlier in 2011 recommending campaigns submit 15,000 to 20,000 signatures due to concerns over invalid signatures, the people blaming the state seem to completely ignore such guidance and campaigns that took such guidance at their peril.
If a campaign cannot devote enough resources to collect 10,000 valid petition signatures that hardly seems to be the fault of the state. Arguing, no fair, you checked our signatures and we didn’t leave ourselves a big enough cushion even though we were warned, seems like about the biggest case of sour grapes I have ever seen.
If you have a case for a conspiracy against Perry and Gingrich, please present it. The Paul and Romney campaigns had no control over the number of signatures they were planning on turning in. I’m having trouble seeing this vast establishment conspiracy that’s being floated.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:32 amcompetence in doubt
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:37 amnaysayers bray fit of pique
you know who dat helps
Virginia requirements have been in place since 2000. Low polling or fringe candidates have been able to secure ballot access under these rules, proving they are not a barrier to running.
Arguing that 2012 is the first time signatures have been scrutinized and therefore the process is unfair merely makes the argument we should allow fraud into the election process, IMHO.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:46 amThe enforcement of those rules has changed. Everybody who got enough sigs in 2008 got on without checking. They started checking only after a weasel independent tried to get competition disqualified (with tiny number of sigs needed). Two or three days ago they made a new safe harbor rule so that none of Mitt’s sigs would be up for debate.
Also the rules in place are stour and onerous and squirrelly- that’s one reason people who on paper got enough signatures were on the ballot, checking or no.
This go round the purpose of these rules, the most stringent and exclusionary in the country (to protect/favor incumbents) has been put into overdrive to knock candidates out of the primary possible.
I blame VA because these rules favor perpetual/perrennial candidates,to the detriment of choice of VA voters, and, as illustrated by the example of Paul, has a nasty side effect of favoring cranks at the expense of mainstream candidates who step into the race much later in the game. The exclude any candidate who has low support in an individual district, no matter how popular he may be elsewhere.
Worse, the practice of putting candidates on the ballot once they submit the requisite signatures was very nearly automatic until just very recently. The fine tooth combing is NEW. And the rule that Mitt has safe harbor and gets no checking, not even a cursory once over, is even newer…as in scant days ago.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:48 amHey Eric you gonna spew conspiracy theories about Catholics killing the pope?
Catholics are far from perfect.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:49 am“patriotism”
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:52 ampulled like the race card refuge
when the whip comes down
who will face chinese?
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:56 amman who outwits opponents?
or pants-down dimwit?
“Two or three days ago they made a new safe harbor rule so that none of Mitt’s sigs would be up for debate.”
Sarahw – I could not find a date on that Safe Harbor. Do you have a link that shows the date it was issued? To me it was telegraphed with the bulletin they issued in May.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:08 ambut to imply that Gingrich is beloved by the establishment is moronic
They have never forgiven him for fighting Bush Sr on the “Read My Lips” tax hikes. If Newt had gone along, they think, no one would have brought up the betrayal in the 1992 election and Bush would have been re-elected. As if.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:09 amIf Ron Paul wins big in Virginia it can ONLY be viewed as a repudiation of Romney. Romney or not-Romney, that is the question.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:11 amBTW, if Paul does win in Virginia, the current glee of Romney supporters will turn to sash as they realize that this “victory” was a mistake, concentrating the opposition onto a single ballot line.
The Tea Party ought to be loud in organizing the protest vote, not only against Romney but as a referendum on the Virginia ballot access rules.
“Never again.”
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:14 am“To the front lines! Don’t fire until you see the whites of our eyes!”
– Kevin M
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:18 amAnd again, since these rules almost always exclude some valid presidential candidates, and this time exclude the first choice of TWO THIRDS of the electorate, one has got to ask WHAT STATE INTEREST IS PROTECTED BY THEM?
And, no, you cannot hide behind the Party — the primary election is paid for by the state, under the state’s voting rules.
Daley? How do you defend these rules? What do they do that is positive? Do you view this outcome (or the outcomes in 2008 and 2000) as being good for the voters of Virgina?
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:21 amColonel, it is one thing to paraphrase, it is another thing to use quotes.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:22 amColonel always uses quotes for his spot-on analogies, Kev.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:24 amAnd, Colonel, it wasn’t my side that shot 5 of 7 candidates.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:24 am“and this time exclude the first choice of TWO THIRDS of the electorate, one has got to ask WHAT STATE INTEREST IS PROTECTED BY THEM?”
DOES ANYBODY KNOW how dEEp THIS CONSPIRACY… this TRAVESHAMOCKERY rUNS?
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:27 amanybody? DUSTIN???
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:28 amthe intrigue runs deep
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:34 amaluminum futures hot
hats in the belfry
I see Christmas has not lightened the Colonel’s nastiness one little bit. All is well as long as he is not getting his ox gored.
JD (9ace9f) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:35 amNor has it got him to be constructive in the least. Mostly noise, as I said before.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:50 amThe religion of Paulism is a false religion.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:50 amDidn’t this happen in 08 with Hilary and Obama? I can’t remember which state(s) but Obama didn’t appear on the ballot, so they just didn’t count those states. Won’t the same happen here?
Ghost (6f9de7) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:02 amThere is indeed something very suspicious about the primary system in VA when only the establishment candidate and a joke of alternative are on the ballot.
If patterico had any sense, this is what he would be concerned with.
Pasha (7f26a5) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:20 amoh, Black Jesus, JD. man up.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:23 amlet’s see some evidence of shenanigans. Not just misinterpretations of interpretations of “you know who this helps” tin-foiled conspiracy mongering.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:27 amhow ’bout it, Kev?
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:28 amto the trenches!
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:28 amEarth day?
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:29 amIf Ron Paul wins big in Virginia it can ONLY be viewed as a repudiation of Romney. Romney or not-Romney, that is the question.
sez you. This is the same state that let a “macacca” elect a military pot-boiler author to the U.S. Senate.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:33 amA silver star winning Vietnam vet, and fmr. Navy Secretary,
narciso (87e966) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:45 am“Daley? How do you defend these rules?”
Kevin M – All the candidate had to play by the same rules. What I see is whining because two candidates chose to gamble with guidelines published by the State Board of Elections and they lost.
I’m not defending the rules, but I’m not arguing for changing them mid-process the way some commenters appear to be. Please tell me you would be singing the same song if Gingrich and Perry had made the ballot. I call BS on that.
Nobody has come forward of any evidence of any conspiracy. Your argument essentially amounts to “let our invalid voter signatures stand” for ballot access purposes. That is not an argument I would want to make.
Change the law if you feel strongly about it. Admit the campaigns screwed up. Ballot access did not seem impaired in 2000 or 2008.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:51 am______________________________________________
The religion of Paulism is a false religion.
I guess the only good thing I can say about the following is that Ron Paul, unlike a typical liberal, isn’t bleeding his heart over Palestinians and, in turn, feeling hostility towards Israelis because of a deluded, ass-backwards belief that such a reaction therefore indicates one is full of humaneness, love and compassion.
Mark (411533) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:54 am“Daley? How do you defend these rules?”
Kevin M. – How do you defend Perry and Gingrich not devoting enough resources to make sure they got the 15,000-20,000 signatures the State Board of Elections suggested they needed to get on the ballot?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:54 am“
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:01 pmignoranceincompetence is no excuse”Haiku, people have presented several pieces of evidence, which in your cleverness you have ignored.
1) The system is skewed against insurgents, and favors the well-connected. Even Romney failed to get on the VA ballot in 2008. It is the most pernicious ballot-access law in the country.
2) They didn’t previously check signatures, all of a sudden they do.
3) But they still don’t check any signatures if the submission is just under what Romney submitted, and that is reported as a new wrinkle, instituted after Romney submitted.
But EVEN IF IT IS NOT A CONSPIRACY, which I haven’t really claimed, but others have, it is such a clear disservice to Virginia voters as to be laughable as anything other than an open attempt to control outcomes.
Do YOU think that the people of Virginia are served by a Romney-Paul contest? Do YOU think that a system that excludes candidates that a large majority of Republicans prefer is a good thing? Or even defensible?
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:02 pm“And again, since these rules almost always exclude some valid presidential candidates”
Kevin M – Didn’t the Green Party manage to get on the ballot in 2008? The inability of a “valid” presidential candidate to secure 15,000 petition signatures is an incredibly lame argument.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:03 pm“Haiku, people have presented several pieces of evidence, which in your cleverness you have ignored.”
Kevin M – Actually, the evidence regarding insurgents from 2000 and 2008 undermines rather than supports your argument.
But they still don’t check any signatures if the submission is just under what Romney submitted, and that is reported as a new wrinkle, instituted after Romney submitted.
Still waiting for a verification on the date of issuance on that Safe Harbor statement. Anybody?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:08 pmDaley — How do you defend Perry and Gingrich not devoting enough resources to make sure they got the 15,000-20,000 signatures the State Board of Elections suggested they needed to get on the ballot?
Because, like Bachmann, Santorum and Huntsman, they decided that other demands on time and resources took precedence.
In the super-compressed primary season where every state wants to be First! there is really no way than anyone who is not 1) born to the purple, or 2) a cult leader with legions of zombie minions can take the time or money away from actual campaigning to jump through stupid bureaucratic hoops.
So, do the people of Virginia win or lose? You still have not answered me, I answered you.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:09 pmDidn’t the Green Party manage to get on the ballot in 2008?
Third parties spend ALL their time and money, like Sisyphus, rolling the rock up ballot-access hills. Every election the same old thing.
Been there, done that.
They end up on the ballot, exhausted and spend far less time and money on the actual campaign. Which I suspect is the point of the ballot-access laws.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:12 pmBecause, like Bachmann, Santorum and Huntsman, they decided that other demands on time and resources took precedence.
They made a decision. There are normally consequences associated with decisions. Except for the “have cake and eat it too” crowd.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:15 pm“You still have not answered me, I answered you.”
Kevin M – See #404. I agree, the campaigns prioritized. They gambled and lost.
I said way earlier in the thread that I prefer primaries with more candidates, which is why I think it was stupid for the campaigns to gamble rather than provide the suggested cushion of signatures.
The state doesn’t decide on the allocation of scarce campaign resources, the candidate and his/her advisors do. Lay the blame where it belongs.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:17 pmStill waiting.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:18 pmhave some cake while you wait.
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:20 pmEither of you say it “The people of Virginia benefit from their ballot access rules”
Yes or no.
And if the answer isn’t yes, why go blame the candidates for being unable or unwilling to play an expensive and possibly crooked game at a time when there were other needs? The rules are the problem, not the failed efforts at compliance.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:22 pmIs there a good link somewhere that explains why you should submit 15k when 10k are required? What standards are used to disqualify signatures? Is there a number you can submit that will keep your signatures from being examined?
JD (9ace9f) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:26 pmyes, “The people of Virginia benefit from their ballot access rules”.
The rules are agreed to and put in place to provide parameters and control what could be chaotic. Unless you can provide specific evidence that proves that a campaign – or campaigns – were given information that was withheld from some, what’s your beef?
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:30 pmIf the FBI did what they did in Waco to a bunch of muslim jihadists the left would be outraged.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:55 pmColonel Haikus anti-perry malarky is predictable bu ttiring.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:57 pmtiring*
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 12:59 pmhttp://www.ashby-law.com/blog/
Want a sense of how next-to-impossible this is? I know top-flight Virginia political consultants who turned down lucrative petition project contracts from presidential campaigns because they did not think it could be done.
They not only have to get 10,000 statewide, and 400 from each Congressional district (the old boundaries I hope) some of which have a low proportion of Republicans, but they must be collected only by registered voters on the state’s two-page official form which can only be reproduced as reproduced as double-sided – forms that must be specific to each city, county and congressional district. And before submission the form must be sworn to and notarized.
From the Ashby blog:
The Party first will conduct a facial review of all petitions, and candidates who submit at least 15,000 signatures and 600 from each congressional district will be presumed to have met the statutory 10,000/400 requirement.
Candidates who submit 14,999 or fewer, however, will undergo signature-by-signature scrutiny of his or her petitions—something no statewide candidate in recent memory ever has had to endure.*
For many years, the Virginia GOP generally selected its nominees in conventions. But the Morse v. Republican Party of Virginia litigation, which challenged RPV’s mandatory convention registration fees as poll taxes, caused the Party temporarily to abandon conventions in favor of primaries.
Sammy Finkelman (b17872) — 12/26/2011 @ 1:14 pmThe left will trout out an ad showing Polar Bears and their Ice Caps melting and the fact that Republicans want the world to die in a fire.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 1:25 pmComment by JD — 12/26/2011 @ 12:26 pm
Is there a good link somewhere that explains why you should submit 15k when 10k are required?
One placed link to this, http://rpv.org but I can’t find anything here. They were promoting an appearance by Newt Gngrich on December2 2.
What standards are used to disqualify signatures?
It’s a secret. The campaigns don’t get told. All that is on the website is this:
After verification, RPV has determined that Newt Gingrich did not submit required 10k signatures and has not qualified for the VA primary.
After verification, RPV has determined that Rick Perry did not submit the required 10k signatures and has not qualified for the VA primary.
Rep. Ron Paul has the requisite signatures and has qualified for the March 6 Virginia primary.
Those are the last 3 tweets.
Is there a number you can submit that will keep your signatures from being examined?
According to Sarah, yes, and the safe harbor and the number were publicized rather late.
Sammy Finkelman (b17872) — 12/26/2011 @ 1:28 pmThey will also trot out that useful idiot Joe Kennedy too.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 1:39 pmThe Safe Harbor Statement on ballot access issued by the Chairman of the Virginia GOP is undated. Some commentators are saying it was issued after Romney turned in his petitions on 12/22, but I have seen no actual confirmation.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 1:51 pmKevin M – I’m not a resident of Virginia. I think it’s up to each state to determine its election rules. The current rules appeared to have worked for Virginia since 2000.
It’s unfortunate that many of the current “valid” or “insurgent” GOP presidential campaigns chose not to devote the resources to obtain enough valid registered voter signatures to appear on the 2012 primary ballot, according to current news reports, when it has not been an issue in past elections.
Personally, I would not want to hang my hat on a “if you just ignore my invalid signatures I would have had enough to make the ballot” argument. Arguing that the law is unfair or discriminates against fringe, insurgent, weak, or whatever you want to call the candidates is specious. The horse already left the barn.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 1:59 pm“It’s a secret. The campaigns don’t get told. All that is on the website is this:”
Sammy – The rumor is that Ron Paul parachuted in Yetis, human/alien hybrids from FEMA camps, to invalidate signatures of other campaigns.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 2:02 pm“if you just ignore my invalid signatures
What are the standards being used to determine what is valid, and who is doing the evaluation?
JD (318f81) — 12/26/2011 @ 2:04 pmDaley, come on. Yeti’s? It was obviously the lizard people who control the illuminati. Sheesh. But that part about the FEMA camps was definitely true.
The whole thing stinks, but seriously, how do you let this happen in 2011? I think some campaign staffers are probably going to be let go over this.
Ghost (6f9de7) — 12/26/2011 @ 2:34 pmIf you just ignore Romneys chicken littling the gorebull warming bull and then throwing himself under the bus than I guess he is a conservative.
I will hold my nose and vote for him.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 2:42 pmthe end result is that Virginians have lost their vote
and they’ve done so with Team R’s blessing
the difference between Virginia’s system and whore states like Russia and Belarus and Venezuela is pretty minimal in effect
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 2:43 pmhttp://www.ashby-law.com/blog/
Excellent link.
Each form has to be just for the city, county and congressional district, must be exactly duplicated down to double sided, then each form must be notarized. Only Virginia residents may circulate petitions. Not all voters may sign. Some districts have few Republicans, yet you still have to get 400 signatures.
What could be easier?
The wonder is that Gingrich and Perry bothered.
As the link states, the people of Virginia are not well served, and the election will be a sham.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 2:58 pmI take it that rafts of signatures could be thrown out because someone copied the form single-sided, or didn’t get it notarized, or wasn’t a state resident, combined people from more than one city (can you imagine the packet of forms one would need for all local cities?). So, when the candidates say that they submitted 15K and the Party says they only submitted 11,500, both could be right under some interpretation?
Wonderful.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 3:03 pm“But Mr Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months.”
“Oh yes, well as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn’t exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them, had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or anything.”
“But the plans were on display …”
“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”
“That’s the display department.”
“With a flashlight.”
“Ah, well the lights had probably gone.”
“So had the stairs.”
“But look, you found the notice didn’t you?”
“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard’.”
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 3:03 pmDoes anyone know who Napoleon Bonaparte Hunstman is?
Anyone who votes for Obama deserves the pain and suffering he will inflict on them.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 3:09 pmhappy, I think that Venezuela’s elections are fairer.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 3:12 pmVenuezuela is like America under Obama.
And it will be like Zimbabwe in 6 years.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 3:33 pmit’s so hard to get any sense from this little country’s ludicrous politics that its gruesome and humiliating end is so near you can feel its breath on your neck
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 3:35 pmNow that sentiment is oh so brave! Also hip. Trendy. You definitely don’t have a clown car of a uterus.
Simon Jester (cb7f1b) — 12/26/2011 @ 3:40 pmThis would all be a lot simpler if the GOP just designated George Will as GOP-Generallisimo.
AD-RtR/OS! (1acacf) — 12/26/2011 @ 3:47 pmor Nina Dobrev
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 3:57 pmZimbabwe is unbelievably bad:
In 1980, the Z$ was worth more than the US$.
Before the third series of bills (above) was printed, they had lopped 13 ZEROES
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 4:33 pm“What are the standards being used to determine what is valid, and who is doing the evaluation?
Comment by JD — 12/26/2011 @ 2:04 pm”
JD – The state GOP was in charge of the review. I have seen nothing issued regarding the standards used.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 4:33 pmZimbabwe is unbelievably bad:
In 1980, the Z$ was worth more than the US$.
Before the third series of bills (above) was printed, they had lopped 13 ZEROES from the currency, so 1 new Z$ was “worth” 10,000,000,000,000 or ten trillion original Zimbabwean dollars. Something like the US national debt. But inflation continued apace.
Above you see a bill that is one hundred trillion NEW NEW Zimbabwean dollars, or 10^27 original Z$.
And is worth only entertainment value today. They tried one more series of bills, then gave up. I think they use chickens now.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 4:37 pmsigh. no image.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 4:37 pmDaley – tossing 1 out of 6 signatures is a pretty remarkable burn rate, or so it would seem. Especially since we have no idea what standards are being utilized.
JD (9ace9f) — 12/26/2011 @ 4:57 pm“The left will trout out an ad showing Polar Bears and their Ice Caps melting and the fact that Republicans want the world to die in a fire.
comment by doh biden”
The basstards!
Colonel Haiku (3a849c) — 12/26/2011 @ 5:03 pmI be confuzzled ’bout sometin’, mon . . . Ron Paul is polling at 9% in Virginny, but somehow he’s a-gonna win there?
Son, that a-Joo hatin’ coon dog done don’t hunt!
Icy (7becc9) — 12/26/2011 @ 5:05 pmPolar bears wear caps made out of ice? That’s brilliant! I bet it protects them from those nasty man-made Gorebull warming holes in the ozone they have there in the Arctic.
Wait a minute . . . Are you saying that the white ones are smarter than the average teddy? Methinks the anti-racist Ron Paul might come after you on that one!
OTOH, they ARE able to hold coke bottles — without opposable thumbs or anything! Let’s see your average black bear do that!!!
[They’re better swimmers, too, aren’t they? Hmm . . . ]
Icy (7becc9) — 12/26/2011 @ 5:20 pmIcy, in VA the primary is open to all registered voters. Democrats can vote for Paul as a spoiler. Also, i think theeyr is likely going to be low participation and/or a high quotient of spoiler votes from persons disgruntled at the highly technical ballot exclusions and the absence of a write-in option to workaround or undo the damage.
I personally predict, if VA GOP does not find a way to back down, that they will have a little mutiny instead of the expected grudging resignation to the limited ballot, and could find RONPAUL showering them with silver dimes of victory, or enough of a showing to embarrass them. Clearly the only reason a sensible person would vote for Paul is to spoil the Romney coronation in this state.
Sarahw (b0e533) — 12/26/2011 @ 6:02 pm433, 452. The main difference between the GOP and the Democrats:
A Republican generally knows when they lie to you, that they are, indeed, lying.
gary gulrud (d88477) — 12/26/2011 @ 6:11 pmWho will qualify for the Florida primary? January 3rd is the cut-off, but will there be signature collection repression?
You know who this helps.
Colonel Haiku (1bb8e8) — 12/26/2011 @ 6:51 pmThe first other shoe drops. A bipartisan group, including a former VA Democrat Party Chair is challenging Gingrich’s exclusion on the basis of a “voter’s right to a meaning vote.” [Indirect link, out of respect to our host.]
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:01 pmmeaningFUL. gah.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:02 pmI meant the Ice caps melting.
😀
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:19 pmQuestion for Sarah–is there another statewide office being voted on the same day as the primary? Or is it just (some of) the presidential candidates who are on the ballot?
If there is a statewide office being voted on, one way to express disapproval would be to vote on the other office and not the presidential ballot. If enough people voted that way, the undervoting gap would register their discontent without voting for Paul.
Although:Clearly the only reason a sensible person would vote for Paul is to spoil the Romney coronation in this state is open to dispute. Some of us think of him as the most principled, reliable, candidate around.
JBS (38f6c3) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:26 pmNaw naw naw nod god bless Al Gore…….It’s god damn Al Gore……….Al Gore’s chickens are coming home to roost.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:32 pm#458, see #318/319
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:38 pmComment by Kevin M — 12/26/2011 @ 7:38 pm
JBS (38f6c3) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:46 pmYes, that’s exactly what I was thinking of. But, as a person who is not familiar with the Virginia elections, I was asking if it’s possible to that now.
err, asking if it’s possible to DO that now.
JBS (38f6c3) — 12/26/2011 @ 7:48 pmcanard they trout out
Colonel Haiku (1bb8e8) — 12/26/2011 @ 8:34 pmChristmas Seven Six basstards
you know who this helps
all I know is I voted for a cowardly sniveling whore in 2008 and I’m honestly not sure I can do it again
Team R is deeply deeply broken
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 8:39 pmPresident Obama thanks you for your bravery and toughness.
Just like the last time, I suspect, despite your protestations.
You are waaaay too invested in the personal attacks to make calm, collected judgements over politics.
But hey. You’re phunny. That’s much more important than keeping Obama from a second term.
You go, brave guy!
Simon Jester (cb7f1b) — 12/26/2011 @ 8:46 pmWhen Obama gets through raping the economy in the ass his useful idiots will be left to fend for themselves.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:13 pmI love the left continuing the lie that Thomas Jefferson had slaves when historians debunked it.
They also say Washington was a slave owner too which is a lie.
Harry Smellafonte is a useless idiot.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:42 pmMitt Romney is a progressive whore Mr. Jester – he said so himself
I don’t see how that’s supposed to help our whored-out little country none
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:45 pmThat’s way to harsh, he’s simply a very flexible weathervane, subject to any swift breeze, he’s very
narciso (87e966) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:47 pmblancmange,
ooh looksy another whore
Gingrich Applauded Romney’s Health Plan
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 9:50 pmAm I supposed to be surprised Crappyfeet?
Because I’m not.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:14 pm“Daley – tossing 1 out of 6 signatures is a pretty remarkable burn rate, or so it would seem.”
JD – I don’t see how you draw that conclusion when both the party and the State Board of Election earlier in the year recommended that campaigns submit petitions with 50% more signatures than the minimum required. They basically telegraphed the Safe Harbor more than seven months in advance and signaled they would be reviewing signatures. Otherwise, why bother putting out such guidance?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:23 pmearlier in the year
when did they say this exactly? It’s the end of December now
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:31 pmI’m a guess that was October 5
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 10:48 pmredstate says the Virginia GOP changed the rules in November at some time
after Wall Street Romney presented his weirdo fan clubber list
I just don’t get why the Republican Party of Virginia is so comfortable pissing in the face of democracy and forcing their fellow Virginians to choose between a whore and a nutjob.
That the Republican Party of Virginia doesn’t see this ludicrous result of their silly and arcane process as a prima facie violation of common sense to say nothing of common decency is alarming.
It’s as fascist, as un-Christian, and as anti-American as anything Barack Obama has ever done, that’s for sure.
They should be ashamed of themselves, the Republican Party of Virginia, and it speaks VOLUMES about Wall Street Romney’s whorish and cowardly character that he’s not decrying this travesty.
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:04 pm“when did they say this exactly?”
Mr. Feets – See my links earlier. May for the state and March for the party.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:34 pm“redstate says the Virginia GOP changed the rules in November at some time”
Mr. Feets – That’s what they say based on a link to this guy Winger’s website who says it’s all because of a lawsuit, but he does not present any evidence of a change in policy. People are taking what Winger says as fact, but he does not present any, only what sounds like opinion.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:38 pmMr. Feets – Making sure petition signatures are valid is clearly unfair and an unspeakable burden to place on campaigns.
Wall Street Romney is the debble.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:40 pmredstate was very blah blah blah I didn’t really invest a lot of time in it
Mr. daley the results speak for themselves… Virginia voters don’t get to participate in the Republican primary, and their state Team R thinks that’s just fine and dandy
This tells you that the people in charge of Team R in Virginia don’t particularly value democratic processes.
This should give every American pause.
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/26/2011 @ 11:45 pmhappyfeet,
to be fair, the arcane rules for petitions seem to be state law. Incumbent protection for state offices, of course. The validation, though, seems to be a party responsibility, to allow favored exceptions. Or at least that’s what is being said. It could change tomorrow.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/27/2011 @ 12:28 amHai Colon’s point on Nor Laup at 9% is valid.
Voting for the batsh*t insane coprolite rather than let Abaddon’s avatar win isn’t a live option.
gary gulrud (d88477) — 12/27/2011 @ 1:17 amhttp://theothermccain.com/2011/12/26/va-attorney-general-cuccinelli-on-gop-primary-ballot/
narciso (87e966) — 12/27/2011 @ 4:36 amhttp://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/article/mischief-voters-push-paul-front-gop-race/276751
narciso (87e966) — 12/27/2011 @ 5:08 amishkabibble not
Colonel Haiku (1bb8e8) — 12/27/2011 @ 6:31 amishkabbob in Bemidji
you know who this helps!
Victory or Dea… hey, wait a minute!
Rewt Gingivitis (1bb8e8) — 12/27/2011 @ 6:37 am“This tells you that the people in charge of Team R in Virginia don’t particularly value democratic processes.”
Mr. Feets – The above is certainly one way to spin it. So is the below:
This tells you that the people in charge of Team
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/27/2011 @ 7:44 amRPerry and Gingrich in Virginia don’t particularly value democratic processes.I don’t that’s the case because Perry and Gingrich qualified in every state BUT Virginia, which makes Virginia an outlier – a fascist arrogant cowardly-whore-loving outlier.
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/27/2011 @ 7:51 amI don’t *think* that’s the case I mean
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/27/2011 @ 7:55 amMr. Feets – Why do Team Perry, Gingrich, Bachmann, and Santorum hate Virginia voters?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/27/2011 @ 7:56 amTeam R should never find itself on the side of supporting election integrity or it will find itself in the position nominating another cowardly whore candidate for president.
Apologies to the six candidates who cared enough to make it on the Virginia primary ballot in 2008.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/27/2011 @ 8:00 amhow does a primary where people have to choose between a whore and a nutjob evince integrity?
The rules in 2008 were different – the only similarity being that an egregiously cowardly whore in the person of John McCain was able to qualify easily.
In real America, Rs are getting to choose amongst a slate of admittedly dismal third-stringer candidates – in fascist anti-democracy Virginia, their state GOP presents them with a menu of two.
There’s no excuse for that, and if Wall Street Romney wants to be president of all America he needs to shed his cowardly whorishness just for a moment and condemn the fascist Team R establishment of Virginia.
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/27/2011 @ 8:08 am“The rules in 2008 were different”
Mr. Feets – Check your facts.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/27/2011 @ 8:19 amDaleyrocks, signature checking as was done this go round was not done in 2008.
SarahW (b0e533) — 12/27/2011 @ 8:28 amBottom line, two candidates who facially exceeded the required number of signatures were excluded in a way they would not have been in 2008. Two mainstream candidates, leaving us with the local GOP favored Mr Perrennial forehead-and-candidate Romney, and a never-say-die crank and his unbalanced cult of cranks.
This didn’t work out too well for the voters. The fussy-pants rules and their mercurial enforcement didn’t help ME.
SarahW (b0e533) — 12/27/2011 @ 8:33 amYou know who it did help though.
SarahW (b0e533) — 12/27/2011 @ 8:34 am“Daleyrocks, signature checking as was done this go round was not done in 2008.”
Sarahw – I understand that. Rule was still 10,000 valid signatures with 400 from 11 Congressional districts. 2012 was actually easier than 2008 by not requesting a full social security number.
Without checking or providing a suitable cushion of extra signatures, how does the party or state estimate the legal requirements are met?
Does anybody know how many signatures were submitted for the 2008 primary by each campaign?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/27/2011 @ 8:43 amSarahw – Was what the Virginia GOP and State Board of Elections told the campaigns earlier in 2011, turn in 15,000-20,000 signatures, including 700 from each district, to be safe, something new or was it the same old boilerplate?
Was there a reason for campaigns to ignore it and the implicit suggestion that signatures would be checked.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/27/2011 @ 8:49 amwhat purpose does it serve to exclude the candidates from the primary?
I can understand leaving out unpopular bigoty filth like Santorum or pompous fops like Huntsman, but the mentally-challenged Republican Party of Virginia is demonstrating that it has no understanding at all of the actual purpose this “primary” they’ve been asked to administer is meant to serve.
happyfeet (3c92a1) — 12/27/2011 @ 9:02 amI want to know more about the process used to invalidate petition signatures, but as I said earlier, arguing that it is unfair to invalidate invalid signatures on petitions is not the side of the argument I prefer to be on.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/27/2011 @ 9:03 amE.J. Dionne-Obama might be the small government guy in 2012.
e.J. Dionne-Palin is an idiot but Obamas gaffe smake him awesome.
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/27/2011 @ 9:07 amE.J. Dionne*
gaffes*
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/27/2011 @ 9:21 amFrom: http://theothermccain.com/2011/12/26/va-attorney-general-cuccinelli-on-gop-primary-ballot/
Quoting VA Attorney General Cuccinelli’s e-mail newsletter (Cuccinelli he indicates is for Santorum)
I have had the opportunity to talk to a number of the candidates and their campaigns in the last month or so, and the Bachmann folks tell me that Virginia is the third hardest ballot access state in the country.
Number 1 should be New York, and Number 2 should be Illinois.
Robert Stacy McCain says Lieutenant Governor Bill Bolling was Ron Paul’s campaign manager in Virginia.
The other McCain refers to this December 8 BLOG post:
http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/republicanracelateentry/
That post claims another Republican could enter the race as late as early February, sayiong the calendar is close to that of 1976.
Well in 1976, in the Republucan side there were some ups and down and on the Democratic side there were real attempts to stop Carter which failed (buit maybe didn’t have to)
In the south JimmY Carter ran as a moderate and then persuaded Governor Wallace to endorse him, getting the benefit of pro and anti-votes. (The
same thinbg may happen wioth any delegates Ron Paul gets in Virginia – voting for Ron Paul is not the way to go isf you want to stop Romney.
The Muslim Brotherhood also probably did the same trick now in Egypt, where they posed as the moderates against the Salafis and the remnants of Mubarek’s party and other people were nmot able to get any traction)
At the end of the 1976 primary process, people all over the country were desperately voting for anybody – including Jerry Brown (without intending him to be the nominee) to stop him from winning.
There were three big primaries in 1976 at the beginning of June: California, Ohio and New Jersey.
Jerry Brown was expected to win California.
In New Jersey there was an “uncommitted” slate running that billed itself as “Humphrey-Brown (Hubert Humphrey for President, Jerry Brown for Vice President)
The only place Jimmy Carter stood a shot was Ohio – and he had almost no competition there.
Jimmy Carter went to Chicago’s Mayor Daley (the first Mayor Daley) and got him to say that if he won the Ohio primary, he should get the nomination.
Then in Ohio, his campaign basically was:
1) Only a person who ran in the primaries should get the nomination
2) Hubert Humphrey is not running in the primaries
3) Therefore you shouldn’t vote for for people who wanted to nominated HHH.
You could look it up.
Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb) — 12/27/2011 @ 9:28 amFrom Richard Winger’s Ballot Access News website:
“Governor Perry is one of only two Governors, in the last 60 years, who vetoed a bill to improve ballot access. On May 20, 2003, he had vetoed HB 1274, which deleted a Texas requirement that petition circulators must read a 93-word statement to every voter they approach. The bill had passed both houses of the legislature unanimously. The statement, which is still in the Texas law, thanks to Perry’s veto, said, “I know that the purpose of this petition is to entitle the (whichever) Party to have its nominees placed on the ballot in the general election for state and county officers. I have not voted in a primary election or participated in a convention of another party during this voting year, and I understand that I become ineligible to do so by signing this petition. I understand that signing more than one petition to entitle a party to have its nominees placed on the general election ballot in the same election is prohibited.”
Forcing a circulator to read this lengthy statement slows down the progress of any circulator, and shows that, at least in 2003, Governor Perry had no interest in fair ballot access. But, maybe the recent Virginia experience will affect his attitude about ballot access barriers.”
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/27/2011 @ 12:28 pmIronically if he we have Universal Healthcare we will be like Israel does the left really want to do that?
Dohbiden (ef98f0) — 12/27/2011 @ 12:38 pmthat doesn’t seem particularly onerous, reading that little passage to people
do we know for reals that this has created a problem in Texas?
here is what Mr. Governor Perry said when he vetoed the bill in question:
moreover it’s not at all clear that the procedures in Texas work to limit the choices voters have to where they have to pick amongst one (1) craven whore and one (1) raving psychotic, as Texans will be able to vote for the candidate of their choice next year.
Unlike those poor disenfranchised Virginia peoples.
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 12/27/2011 @ 1:07 pmHow can such a requirement possibly be constitutional?
Milhouse (d7842d) — 12/27/2011 @ 1:12 pmUm, no.
Milhouse (d7842d) — 12/27/2011 @ 1:22 pmIt is when it had never been done before and candidates had every reason to believe it wouldn’t be done this time either.
Milhouse (d7842d) — 12/27/2011 @ 1:28 pm“candidates had every reason to believe it wouldn’t be done this time either.”
Milhouse – Evidence for this assertion?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/27/2011 @ 1:39 pm“it is important that the voter have that information when deciding whether to sign the petition.”
Mr. Feets – Gov. Goober’s statement makes no sense since he vetoed the reading of the statement which informed voters of the consequence of their signing.
You should email Mr. Winger if you have a problem wif his analysis is what I think.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/27/2011 @ 1:49 pmhe vetoed the reading of the statement which informed voters of the consequence of their signing
this is not in evidence at all
all we’ve established is that Mr. Governor Perry vetoed a bill to forgo the reading of the statement which informed voters of the consequence of their signing
happyfeet (a55ba0) — 12/27/2011 @ 2:51 pm2012 was actually easier than 2008 by not requesting a full social security number.
Mostly because that’s been ruled an unconstitutional barrier to the right to petition every time it comes up.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/27/2011 @ 3:07 pmNot that those SSNs had to valid, either. 10,001 Mickey Mouses with 999-99-9999 as SSN, so long as they were on the proper forms and notarized, would have been accepted in 2008.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/27/2011 @ 3:09 pmIt shows no such thing. How is that requirement in any way unfair? Are you seriously claiming that it’s not utterly common for people to sign petitions without knowing all that information? What percentage of people who sign petitions do you suppose know that stuff already? I’d say it’s not only more than 10% (which would be enough to justify the requirement) but it’s more than 70%.
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 12/27/2011 @ 3:38 pmThe evidence is the fact that it had never been done before. Why would they think that this time would be different?
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 12/27/2011 @ 3:40 pmUm, no, that is the exact opposite of the truth. You need to improve your literacy.
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 12/27/2011 @ 3:40 pm2012 was actually easier than 2008 by not requesting a full social security number.
Mostly because that’s been ruled an unconstitutional barrier to the right to petition every time it comes up.
comment by Kevin M
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Was it easier… YES or NO???
Perry Mason (1bb8e8) — 12/27/2011 @ 3:42 pmMade no difference as no one checked them. Did not even have to be the right number of digits.
Kevin M (563f77) — 12/27/2011 @ 5:40 pm“The evidence is the fact that it had never been done before. Why would they think that this time would be different?”
Milhouse – Claiming to read minds again?
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/27/2011 @ 8:50 pm“It shows no such thing. How is that requirement in any way unfair? Are you seriously claiming that it’s not utterly common for people to sign petitions without knowing all that information?”
Milhouse – That is Mr. Winger’s conclusion, not mine, in the quotes in #503.
I admit I misread the direction of the veto.
Mr. Winger appears to favor less disclosure rather than more which is why he was upset with Mr. Perry.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 12/27/2011 @ 8:56 pmOn the contrary, you’re the one who’s ascribing psychic powers to people, by claiming that they ought to have predicted that this year, for the first time ever, the signatures would be validated.
Milhouse (ea66e3) — 12/28/2011 @ 12:25 am