Patterico's Pontifications

12/19/2011

Ron Paul in Iowa, Defenders in punditry

Filed under: 2012 Election — Karl @ 6:26 am



[Posted by Karl]

The latest from PPP:

Newt Gingrich’s campaign is rapidly imploding, and Ron Paul has now taken the lead in Iowa.  He’s at 23% to 20% for Mitt Romney, 14% for Gingrich, 10% each for Rick Santorum, Michele Bachmann, and Rick Perry, 4% for Jon Huntsman, and 2% for Gary Johnson.

Paul has outcampaigned and outorganized his rivals in Iowa.  Granted, the PPP poll can be criticized, as his support comes disporportionately from young voters and those who identify as either Democrats or independents.  However, despite Iowa being a closed caucus, you can register to participate right up to caucus day.  If Paul can get these people to sign up, it’s a good bet they’ll caucus.

At the Washington Examiner, Timothy P. Carney predicts:

The Republican presidential primary has become a bit feisty, but it will get downright ugly if Ron Paul wins the Iowa caucuses.

The principled, antiwar, Constitution-obeying, Fed-hating, libertarian Republican congressman from Texas stands firmly outside the bounds of permissible dissent as drawn by either the Republican establishment or the mainstream media. (Disclosure: Paul wrote the foreword to my 2009 book.)

***

If Paul wins, how will the media and the GOP react? Much of the media will ignore him (expect headlines like “Romney Beats out Gingrich for Second Place in Iowa”). Some in the Republican establishment and the conservative media will panic. Others will calmly move to crush him, with the full cooperation of the liberal mainstream media.

Carney seems upset by the prospect, but then again, Carney refers to Paul’s “abiding 9/11 conspiracy theorists and allowing racist material in a newsletter published under his name” as… “indiscretions.” 

Similarly, the unhinged Andrew Sullivan euphemizes that Paul “had associations in the past that are creepy when not downright ugly.”  I should not have to remind the HIV-positive pundit about the content of Paul’s newsletters:

 They frequently quoted Paul’s “old colleague,” Representative William Dannemeyer–who advocated quarantining people with AIDS–praising him for “speak[ing] out fearlessly despite the organized power of the gay lobby.” In 1990, one newsletter mentioned a reporter from a gay magazine “who certainly had an axe to grind, and that’s not easy with a limp wrist.” In an item titled, “The Pink House?” the author of a newsletter–again, presumably Paul–complained about President George H.W. Bush’s decision to sign a hate crimes bill and invite “the heads of homosexual lobbying groups to the White House for the ceremony,” adding, “I miss the closet.” “Homosexuals,” it said, “not to speak of the rest of society, were far better off when social pressure forced them to hide their activities.” When Marvin Liebman, a founder of the conservative Young Americans for Freedom and a longtime political activist, announced that he was gay in the pages of National Review, a Paul newsletter implored, “Bring Back the Closet!” Surprisingly, one item expressed ambivalence about the contentious issue of gays in the military, but ultimately concluded, “Homosexuals, if admitted, should be put in a special category and not allowed in close physical contact with heterosexuals.”

James Kirchick, who tracked down these newsletters, adds this:

One newsletter reported on the heretofore unknown phenomenon of “Needlin’,” in which “gangs of black girls between the ages of 12 and 14” roamed the streets of New York and injected white women with possibly HIV-infected syringes. Another newsletter warned that “the AIDS patient” should not be allowed to eat in restaurants because “AIDS can be transmitted by saliva,” a strange claim for a physician to make. 

Paul gave credence to the theory, later shown to have been the product of a Soviet disinformation effort, that AIDS had been created in a U.S. government laboratory at Fort Detrick, Maryland.

However, in Sullyworld, it’s Gingrich who is filled with resentment, and Perry who is fascistic.  Kirchick also details Paul’s relationship conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, which may not bother Sullivan, given his own penchant for paranoid consipracy theories and Trig Trutherism (one of which originated with Alex Jones).

Like Paul voter Dave Weigel, both Sullivan and Carney are ostentatious in their disregard for mainstream conservatism.  Sullivan’s case is well-known; Carney’s hobby-horse is in exposing crony capitalism as an equal opportunity pursuit by Republicans, although Paul’s status as a GOP earmark king is left out of Carney’s latest apologia.  Also omitted is this from Kirchick:

[A] subsequent report by Reason found that Ron Paul & Associates, the defunct company that published the newsletters and which counted Paul and his wife as officers, reported an income of nearly $1 million in 1993 alone. If this figure is reliable, Paul must have earned multiple millions of dollars over the two decades plus of the newsletters’ existence. It is incredible that he had less than an active interest in what was being printed as part of a subscription newsletter enterprise that earned him and his family millions of dollars. Ed Crane, the president of the Cato Institute, said Paul told him that “his best source of congressional campaign donations was the mailing list for the Spotlight, the conspiracy-mongering, anti-Semitic tabloid run by the Holocaust denier Willis Carto.”

Carney cannot bring himself to come up with a cute term for this sort of capitalism, in which a Congressman and presidential candidate profits personally and politicially from actively peddling hatred and intolerance.  If Paul wins Iowa, someone else surely will.  And contra the Weigels, Carneys and Sullivans, it will be richly deserved.

–Karl

201 Responses to “Ron Paul in Iowa, Defenders in punditry”

  1. Ding!

    Karl (e39d6b)

  2. I’m losing respect for Iowa if Paul is leading there.

    we need to standardize the primary process and stop fetishizing the Iowa caucuses and the midnight New hampshire primary and all such oddities

    Guy Fawkes/2012: This Time We’ll Get It Right

    Jones (92a795)

  3. Well I differentiate Carney from Sullivan and Weigel, longtime members of the Journolist, in
    the former’s case, an actual supporter of Hamas,
    which also explains the tie to Paul,

    narciso (87e966)

  4. Despicable that Paul allowed those newsletters to be published. But…

    Pretty interesting that no one has an effective counter regarding the reason he is so popular. He is the only one who is actually talking about what we KNOW is wrong with the financial system…the other candidates are going on with the same old nonsense…going to cut spending by finding fraud and waste…going to keep spending money trying to build democractic republics in places that haven’t discovered running water yet.

    Sort of a shame that having given up on presenting better ideas the “establishment elite” have taken to slinging mud, however much it is deserved. They might want to remember the base understands they are avoiding making DC smaller and less powerful and Paul isn’t.

    Pierre (004a25)

  5. Pierre,

    What’s despicable is the degree to which a lot of voters don’t know Paul’s history and how much his fans want to avoid the topic. It’s a major case of “Other than that, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?”

    If Paul’s libertarian message is driving his campaign, what’s wrong with Gary Johnson? The big difference that Paul has longstanding national infrastructure funded and fueled by people that Paul doesn’t want to discuss.

    Karl (e39d6b)

  6. One wonders what a poll that apparently includes a lot of Democrats and Independents says about a GOP caucus? And no poll of independents is worth anything until the one-on-one general election debates are held.

    d(^_^)b
    http://libertyatstake.blogspot.com/
    “Because the Only Good Progressive is a Failed Progressive”

    LibertyAtStake (3d760e)

  7. Pierre

    Is he? I mean, kinky friedman ran as a drunk country and western singer and got 11% Ron Pauls says the Constitution” and “War mongering” – its going to get you 15% automatically – especially in Iowa

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4)

  8. Dems would love Paul to be the GOP candidate. Obama can run to his right on national security.

    Dennis D (55ba3e)

  9. I trust PPP as far as i can throw them, but the fact is, that Paul’s cohort, is possibly the motivated cohort, and since the GOP managed to sideline another, well that will be the result.

    narciso (87e966)

  10. Ron Paul – Cannabis Capitalism!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  11. narcisco

    who did the GOP sideline?

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4)

  12. this whole affair has become an exercise in dumb

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  13. It’s funny how similar dipsh*t GOP elitists like Karl are to the liberal media.

    You don’t like Paul’s message? Is the answer to debate that message? Of course not. The answer is to paint Paul as a racist, as a homophobe, as insane, as a hippocrite, etc.

    Pay no mind to the 15 trillion dollar debt gorilla sitting in the room. This is the important stuff, right, Karl, you f*cking idiot?

    Einsteinium 99 (2aa6fe)

  14. omg you rude person

    Paul isn’t presidential he’s a stuttering weirdo with a bigoty past from the lost tribe of yippie dog men

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  15. Ron Paul amuses your corn-sucking casual caucus-going Iowa high-school graduate fundies, but Real Americans fundie and otherwise all know he’s a for real sign of the End Times

    Hieronymo’s mad againe.

    happyfeet (3c92a1)

  16. Einstinkyium

    Paul take contributions from Storm front. He is a documented racist, liar, and doesnt believe a word of what he says. He lives for the spotlight

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4)

  17. Way to go, Karl.
    I too read that WeeklyStandard item by Kirchick, and found Paul’s actions re his newsletter dispicable, and would have posted a link to it if you hadn’t.
    Paul, as the maverick within the House GOP Caucus, has gotten a pass on a lot of …. (stuff) in his past, but now is not the time to continue bad traditions.
    The only redeeming feature of his life is his son (so far).

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  18. “…Carney cannot bring himself to come up with a cute term for this sort of capitalism…”

    PSP – Political Smut Peddler!
    Our (if you’re GOP or Libertarian) very own Larry Flint, without the charm.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  19. Ron Paul – Candidate for Cretins!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  20. Ron Paul-Canditate for useful idiots.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  21. Doh, you give them too much credit.
    They are idiots, but their usefulness is highly questionable.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  22. Candidate*

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  23. I say more than half of Paul’s ‘supporters’ are just the pestered giving the pollster pestilence the finger.

    ESAD.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  24. Ron Paul is the Republican equivalent to Ralph Nader

    B.Obama (e0fdd2)

  25. North Korea will take over China.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  26. I’ll be supporting Ron Paul. I know he’s not perfect, but I don’t trust any of the other candidates.

    He’s right enough on domestic policy that it more than makes up for any disagreement I have with him on foreign policy. Besides, our country needs to repair all the damage at home before we start meddling abroad. we have plenty of work to do right here.

    Ben M. (4603b6)

  27. Repubs and Dems will never agree.

    Dems want big government and Repubs want small government with the exceprtion of the establishment.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  28. Can anyone point to legislature that Ron Paul has authored, sponsored, endorsed, or voted for that institutionalized racism, anti-semitism, or homophobia? I ask because it’s important. More important than a newsletter that he didn’t write. More important than who endorses him.

    As for Alex jones, he distrusts the government in its entirety. Why wouldn’t he support the guy who wants to gut it? The truther card is just as ridiculous as the birther card, and they should only be applied to people who believe those ridiculous things. Ron Paul believes blowback caused 9/11. That is the exact opposite of what truthers believe. They believe that Kyle dropped mooky sticks in the urinal to cover up the fact that he caused 9/11.

    If someone could show me where he’s voted to quarantine gays, set curfews for blacks, or forced the Jews to give up all their sweet sweet Serbian Jew gold, I would gladly renounce all support of him. He clearly is not comfortable with gay people, but he’s the only candidate who wants to give a path to gay marriage.

    My point is, if you have a prolife candidate who never votes to end abortion, it doesn’t really matter that he’s prolife, does it? If the racists are supporting Paul, it’s not because he’s tried to bring back Jim Crowe or anything like that. It probably has more to do with Paul opposing hate crime (Orwell called it thought crime) legislation. Without hate crime law, racists are protected like the rest of us. With it, they’re criminals. When the government makes what you do a federal crime, you become a single issue voter.

    Ask any dispensary operator in California.

    Ghost (6f9de7)

  29. Wow the left are calling for a revolution where the rich republicans are killed?

    And the left calls us maniacs?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  30. Let’s talk about Ron Paul’s legislative accomplishments.

    Okay, next subject.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  31. White Supremacists and Drug Users for Doctor Demento!

    Nor Luap 2012

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  32. Now that’s just Monday, Doh.

    narciso (87e966)

  33. Considering how wrong the government has been, that’s not necessarily a bad thing, Daley.

    Ghost (6f9de7)

  34. That was about the post above, not about the racists/drug users post.

    Ghost (6f9de7)

  35. daley, remember, there actually was a “Doctor Demento”, and he was sane compared to Paul.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  36. He was only Bart Simpson’s archenemy, along with sideshow Bob/

    narciso (87e966)

  37. Celebrate 20+ Years of Congressional Ineffectiveness

    (Except Home District Pork)

    Vote Ron Paul for President 2012!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  38. You don’t like Paul’s message? Is the answer to debate that message? Of course not. The answer is to paint Paul as a racist, as a homophobe, as insane, as a hippocrite, etc.

    It’ not necessary to “paint” him. He made a million dollars a year from the newsletter and didn’t know about what went in it ? I have some genuine antiques I could sell you for a real bargain price.

    Mike K (9ebddd)

  39. Gee, Mike, I’ve got a voucher here from the ’09 Stimulus…
    Let’s Make A Deal!

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  40. Paul’s foreign policy goes a few steps beyond sensible.But no less crazy than President Gingrich sending US marshals into chambers to arrests judges.

    Paul grasps the long-term interventionism has been a fiscal disaster and that Washsington’s involvemt in every aspect of out lives is also disasterous-and unconstitutional . He understands neithers the Dems with social programs and the GOP with defense programs do not want to cut government. If the mainsteam candidates dealt with these Big Government issues Ron Paul wouldn’t exist.

    Crazy these days is believing in limited constitutional federal governance.

    Newtster (ea1809)

  41. He Couldn’t Sell Congress On His Ideas In More Than 20 Years Of Service But He Thinks You’ll Buy Them?

    Vote Ron Paul

    The Idiots’ Choice In 2012

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  42. The only problem with that defense of Paul, is that the Preamble of the Constitution cites as a duty of government “…to provide for the common defence…”, and Paul refuses to acknowledge that external threats exist to the continued existence of the United States of America.

    We tried ignoring the World in the early parts of the 20th-Century (Isolationism), and found that problematic.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  43. Now, AD, Napolitano would probably tell you thats ince if we sanctioned Japan’s oil supplies, we were probably ‘asking for it’ that and intervening on behalf of the Chinese with the Flying Tigers.

    narciso (87e966)

  44. Meanwhile, we let this fellow walk and chew gum, unattended:

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/12/18/joe-biden-on-iraq-iran-china-and-the-taliban.print.html

    narciso (87e966)

  45. Sort of a shame that having given up on presenting better ideas the “establishment elite” have taken to slinging mud, however much it is deserved. They might want to remember the base understands they are avoiding making DC smaller and less powerful and Paul isn’t.

    But of course, Pierre, my little floweur.

    Pepe Le Pew (caa4c2)

  46. Yes, I’m a RINO elitist for pointing out that you could support Gary Johnson if you’re into libertarianism without the bigoted baggage.

    But I particularly like the ad hominem attack as a preface to the claim that Paul’s critics can’t debate his message. Nice, ironic touch. As though not caring about Nork nukes and Iranian proto-nukes while wanting to throw Israel under the bus would play well in a general election. Because what we really want is a nuclear arms race in the Gulf. Oddly, the Saudis and others haven’t cared about Israel’s supposed nukes, but are now looking into the matter because the oh-so-rational Ahmadinejad/IRGC regime is close to getting them. Paulians will wallow in martyrdom over Paul’s trafficking in hatred because it allows them to avoid facing how many of his positions — including his incredible hypocrisy on earmarks — are unacceptable to the general electorate.

    Karl (f07e38)

  47. I don’t believe Paul can pass the physical, we’d just upgrade his VP for the Inauguration.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  48. How are Paul’s racist newsletters a worse problem than Obama’s racist pastor?

    Michael Ejercito (64388b)

  49. Sanctions against shipping oil to Japan….
    Flying Tigers…
    Please remind me what GOP Administration initiated those policies?

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  50. I also see that believing Paul to be a crank is to be against limited government. Apparently, a Paul candidacy would employ as many strawmen as the Obama campaign does.

    Karl (f07e38)

  51. ME-
    Well, they aren’t, but the SCM ignores one, and will pummel all Republicans for the other, because they do not wish to lose their favored status at 1600 PA Ave.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  52. Ron Paul… stupefyingly intoxicating blasts of stupefaction for the chronically stupid.

    Colonel Haiku (caa4c2)

  53. Strawmen is the one group he is qualified to lead.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  54. Michael (50),

    I wrote about Wright at the time. What makes this worse? From my perspective, it’s because I don’t want libertarianism/classical liberalism tainted with this sort of crap, whereas racism has long been a part of progressivism/liberal fascism.

    But if all you want is to change the subject, let’s change it to an explanation of why Gary Johnson isn’t a better representative of the libertarian viewpoint in this campaign.

    Karl (f07e38)

  55. I was making the parallel between Pearl Harbor, which Beard among others had argued, and 9/11.
    Basing in Arabia, supporting Israel, an inexact
    analogy,

    narciso (87e966)

  56. Johnson isn’t a crank and closet Klansman/American Nazi, therefore the press doesn’t cover him, therefore he’s been relegated to the status of Non-Person.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  57. If having bases in Saudi was such an offense against Islam that justified the attack of 9/11, logically it would seem that the violence should have been directed against the alSauds as we were based there upon their invitation, and beseechment.

    These are just off-shoots of Kirkpatrick’s “Blame America Firsters”, and have as much relevance to a serious discussion of current events.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  58. Right, Paul gave the game away, when he objected to the ‘judgement’ of UBL and Awlaki, the closest thing to the privateering expedition that he says he approves.

    narciso (87e966)

  59. “How are Paul’s racist newsletters a worse problem than Obama’s racist pastor?”

    Michael – I have not seen this argument advanced. Wright was not running for president. Paul is.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  60. Carney cannot bring himself to come up with a cute term for this sort of capitalism, in which a Congressman and presidential candidate profits personally and politicially from actively peddling hatred and intolerance.

    — “Hatey capitalism”?

    Icy (b15d2e)

  61. We never had economic cycles before fiat money and the creation of the Federal Reserve!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I blame the Juice.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  62. the fiat money
    colonel drive hot X One/Nine
    give more smiles per mile

    Colonel Haiku (caa4c2)

  63. Those that refuse to learn (from) history, are doomed to repeat it!

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  64. A part of me would like to see Paul win the GOP nomination for the entertainment value.

    Pat Robertson came in first or second in Iowa. Iowa and NH are significant in that, anyone who doesn’t finish in the top 3 in at least one of the two, and maybe the top 2, is finished. Someone from that group should be the winner of South Carolina and that person is likely on his way. However actually winning Iowa by itself doesn’t mean that much.

    Gerald A (9d78e8)

  65. 64. Interesting procedure: Win, place and show past the post get all the votes at the finish.

    No wonder Iowans are waiting to choose.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  66. Robertson came in first, Dole second and Bush in third, he recovered in NH, which is why Sununu became Chief of Staff,

    narciso (87e966)

  67. Choose the Right kind of racism in 2012

    Vote Ron Paul

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  68. Aww, banks down 4% today in the Market, BofA under $5. Hope Warren gets stuck with the raccoon.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  69. Newt loves illegals (amnesty) more than Americans (Newt wants to bring back child labor for US kids). Mitt thinks corporations are people (killing his general election chances). Ron Paul is the only candidate with a plan to end the TSA and end the endless wars for Israel, it all started a decade ago after a false flag attack.
    9/11, US and Israel:
    http://www.amazon.com/America-Deceived-II-Possession-interrogation/dp/1450257437

    [note: fished from spam filter. –Stashiu]

    Jim (b5a0f6)

  70. Perry ties Romney in Iowa – closing in on Paul

    EricPWJohnson (4380b4)

  71. 73. Michele gets 100% of the Hispanic vote!

    The polls are booby guano.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  72. Jim – Ron Paul thinks border fences and walls are holding Americans hostage. Splain that one.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  73. Now, AD, Napolitano would probably tell you thats ince if we sanctioned Japan’s oil supplies, we were probably ‘asking for it’ that and intervening on behalf of the Chinese with the Flying Tigers.

    Well, that’s undeniably true. I don’t think there can be any question that Japan was justified in attacking the USA, and indeed had little other choice. So Paul is right that FDR could have stayed out of WW2 if he had wanted to. But would that have been a good thing for the world? And, in the long run, would it have been a good thing for America? Had Paul been president then, he would probably have waited until German tanks were massed on the Mexican and Canadian borders before doing anything. By which time it would have been too late.

    Milhouse (d7842d)

  74. Ron Paul thinks not having Chocolate Pudding at the nursing home is da joooooooooooooos fault.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  75. Jim — 12/19/2011 @ 11:18 am:

    [note: fished from spam filter. –Stashiu]

    Why?

    Milhouse (d7842d)

  76. I also ask that question: Why?

    But, I don’t think the Japanese were justified in attacking Pearl; plus, it was essentially a preventive strike to ensure the safety of their thrust into the South China Sea (P.I.) and the Dutch East Indies – from whence they intended to acquire the oil that they needed. But, since they were committed to attacking the P.I., and the U.S. forces there (and at Wake), it only made since to cripple the Pacific Fleet to buy themselves some time on their Eastern Front and to isolate U.S. forces and friends to the West and South of HI.
    Some would say that the embargo’s stoppage of scrap-steel/iron shipments was more damaging to Japan’s war-footing than the loss of U.S. oil.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  77. China ousts North Korea?

    Not in this lifetime.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  78. Why?
    Comment by Milhouse — 12/19/2011 @ 1:10 pm

    Wasn’t spam.

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  79. More like China “absorbs” North Korea in all but name.
    They desperately need that buffer between themselves and the ROK.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  80. Stash, your level of tolerance is saintly.
    Now, what about “B. Obama”?

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  81. But, I don’t think the Japanese were justified in attacking Pearl;

    Why not? What other choice did they have? And if nothing else, how did the Flying Tigers not provide all the justification they needed?

    it was essentially a preventive strike to ensure the safety of their thrust into the South China Sea (P.I.) and the Dutch East Indies – from whence they intended to acquire the oil that they needed.

    And why did they need that oil in the first place? Because of the USA embargo.

    Some would say that the embargo’s stoppage of scrap-steel/iron shipments was more damaging to Japan’s war-footing than the loss of U.S. oil.

    Exactly. Which is why their only hope for survival was to make the bold move of starting a war, in the hope that after a few years of fighting to a draw the Americans would get tired of it, as we usually do, and be ready to make peace, which would mean lifting the embargo. They had no delusion of actually defeating the USA.

    Milhouse (d7842d)

  82. Endless wars for Israel?

    It’s like you bought stupid pills today Paulbot.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  83. Now, what about “B. Obama”?
    Comment by AD-RtR/OS! — 12/19/2011 @ 1:40 pm

    Not sure which old friend it is, but they’re probably on vacation or a trip. Hasn’t broken any rules yet under this name and the IP has been consistent so far. IMO not worth engaging, but others appear unable to resist. 😉

    Stashiu3 (601b7d)

  84. I don’t think there can be any question that Japan was justified in attacking the USA, and indeed had little other choice.

    And were Hitler/Stalin similarly justified in siezing Poland?

    Nixon justified in bombing Cambodia? Bush justified in invading Iraq? Because they had – little other choice?

    B.Obama (e0fdd2)

  85. 1- The Tigers were nominally a Chinese Govt entity, with the material support not that differnt from Lend-Lease. If the Tigers justified the WIDENING of the war to the U.S. (remember, Japan had been engaged in China since the Early-30’s), then Lend-Lease certainly justified the Germans to attack any and all U.S. interests too (which of course they were doing in attacking oil shipments through the Gulf of Mexico and up the Atlantic Coast by submarine in ’41 with their doctrine of Unrestricted Submarine Warfare).
    2- With the fall of the Dutch to the Germans in the Summer-’40, and the fall of Singapore, the Japanese were the pre-eminent power in SE Asia, and could access the oil and rubber in that area pretty much at will, if they could keep the Pacific Fleet at bay.
    3- When I use the work “justified” it is in the context of a “moral war”. The U.S. embargo of strategic materials to Japan is “just business”, and not a “strike” at the heartland of Japan that a blockade would be.

    I certainly don’t doubt or dispute that tactically it was the right move; but, as history has shown us, it was strategically the wrong move.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  86. Well, those Poles are such pesky fellows, they just invite the neighbors to react.

    Under a No Sanctuary Policy, Nixon was entirely justified in attacking NVA forces in Cambodia, and explained all that in that ’68 Presidential Christmas broadcast listened to by John Kerry.

    You need to read the Congressional “Authorizations for the Use of Military Force” for both 2001, and 2002, signed by the President after passage by bi-partisan majorities in both Houses of Congress, with an open-mind (but not so open that your brains fall out – or has that happened already), and you will see that their was justification and cause.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  87. There are always choices; but in these cases there are no good ones.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  88. And were Hitler/Stalin similarly justified in siezing Poland?

    Um, no. What have they got to do with the price of fish?

    Nixon justified in bombing Cambodia?

    Of course. Who has suggested that he wasn’t? Why on earth wouldn’t he be?

    Bush justified in invading Iraq?

    Once again, of course he was. Congress’s authorization listed about 15 reasons why it was justified. Got a problem with those?

    Milhouse (d7842d)

  89. There are people like Jim who are obvious anti-Semites who will vote for Ron Paul, just as there are black panthers who will vote for Obama, as there are racists who will vote for newt. Every candidate has their crazy supporters.

    Please don’t lump us all with Jim. I’ve got my reasons to support Ron Paul. You’ve got your reasons not too.

    By the way, non-intervention is not the same as isolationism.

    And the craziest things I’ve heard this election cycle are “newt is the tea party candidate,” and “Romney is a conservative.” I understand santorum, bachmann, and perry, but those two?

    Ghost (6f9de7)

  90. Please explain why Newt, and his supporters are, a priori, Racists?

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  91. The anti-Semitic and racist thing has dogged Ron Paul for some time. An example.

    [note: released from moderation. –Stashiu]

    Kevin M (563f77)

  92. Newt led the original small-government insurgency, so he has a lot more Tea Party credibility those that remember those days than Santorum or Perry, the latter of whom has no problem with big STATE government.

    Kevin M (563f77)

  93. … –with– those that remember…

    Kevin M (563f77)

  94. Heh, the Ron Paul vote is obviously an expletive to the republicans who do plenty of defending their personal favorite but no others. The real problem, which Gingrich highlighted and got some bounce from despite his negatives, are these wimp Republicans who don’t fight to defend the Republican Party from the divide and conquer types, especially noted when Cain and Palin are undefended in depth by people who then want us to forget our freedoms and vote for people who want to take them away more slowly instead of quickly as Obama has done. Well, if you take my freedom away, whether it is to have one’s 9 yr old daughter have a lemonade stand without government regulation/fines of $700 or a yard sale for one’s cancer treatment without government interference, i’d rather it be quick so one can tell the difference it makes, instead of feeling that there is noone on one’s side, since the other side would do sooo much worse.

    Well, as McCain said of Obama, stabbing his defenders in the back with a couple weeks left in the campaign, Obama is a decent fellow, and we don’t have to be scared of what he will do or that he spends more times with Ayers the unrepudiated terrorist than with his congressional colleages.

    Eat those words, thou who gave us McCain and Dole and next Romney, we will take McCain’s unrepudiated words as truth, since our side should not lie, and vote for Paul, write in Palin or Cain, or just step out of the fight and allow the lemmings to win. Have fun without any fighters on your side, be Gandi, except with an adversary who knows no mercy, no matter how much, as Bush regreted, you go against your capitalist/freedom leanings.

    If you only defended Cain and Palin with the same fervor you defended Clinton, you might have garnered some goodwill from me and I might have voted again for a Rino instead of someone who we’ve been promised our whole lives to be able to vote for, someone who’ll advance not only our freedoms but also advance the social contract beyond the sticking points of race and gender.

    hauke (a4d6db)

  95. Left on Lri Berensons charges-Sorry she hasn’t given aid to right wingers so the charges are bogus.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  96. Lori*

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  97. McCain was booed at a town-hall meeting here when he rebuked a man who said he was “scared�to bring a child up” under an Obama presidency. “I have to tell you he is a decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared of as president of the United States,” McCain said to audible disapproval.*

    either way we were destined to have a cowardly whore as president

    happyfeet (a55ba0)

  98. 73. I’m sorry even if there were an isolationist movement on the Right we hadn’t heard of Libertarians are less than 10% of the Electorate so this 23% or whatever for Paul in IA is hog slop.

    That Perry is on the move is real and if Romney and Paul were to start from one of the top three spots, Perry would win easily with conseratives swarming him.

    But that would be true for any conservative in that spot. We are flying blind because the Elites want it that way.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  99. Lori Berenson’s in the news again?! You’d think that terrorist hoochie would have learned some sense by now. What’s she done this time?

    Oh, I see, she’s being allowed to leave the country and they’re trusting her to come back on her own. I suppose we’ll see whether she does so. If she doesn’t, will they try to extradite her, and if so will Holder cooperate?

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  100. I love how Palin is an idiot but according to the left Joe Biden makes racist stereotypes and is deified.

    Obama-I can see North Korea from the white house.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  101. Well the MRTA were merely Marxist, not Maoist like the Shining Path, so she has that going for her.

    narciso (87e966)

  102. The court down there said she could leave, but the “executive” says “No Way, Jose!”, and won’t let her depart.
    Sounds like a “constitutional crisis” in Peru.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  103. Lori Berenson isn’t a terrorist.

    Palin is an idiot.

    Joe Biden speaks the truth about indians even though it would be a racist stereotype if Bachmann had said it.

    Black is White and Up is Down.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  104. MRTA and Shining Path are two sides of the same evil coin.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  105. And Spock sports a beard, and the Taliban isn’t our enemy, the Solon of Scranton informs us, facepalm
    with a Chtluthu,

    narciso (87e966)

  106. The North Korean Army throwing Kim-Jong Il’s son under the bus is highly unlikely.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  107. Actually, I would think that if some “Young Turks” wanted to throw off the Kim-yoke, now would be the perfect time to do so.
    If they opened the country to the South, they might be acclaimed as national heros.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  108. AD, there’s no constitutional crisis. The guys at the airport don’t work for the court, they work for the ministry. She didn’t realise she needed to get an exit permit from the ministry; presumably her lawyer should have thought of that and obtained it for her.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  109. But…but…the court says she can leave…they have to issue her an exit visa…the court says so…it’s the law….

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  110. But…but…the court says she can leave…they have to issue her an exit visa…

    And so they did. But she tried to leave without one, and that was never going to work.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  111. Lori Berenson will be treated by her fellow useful idiots like a hero.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  112. If South and North unify than who knows where it will end up?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  113. South and North Korea.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  114. They actually let her leave?
    I’m working off of last nights’ info.
    Well, I hope she enjoys the rest of her life on Manhattan’s Upper East Side (or is it the Upper West Side)?
    She and Bernadette can get together and do a Reality Show together, and then move to the Hamptons.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  115. Bemidji Midget
    keeps plucking that dang chicken
    Amerikkkan Pie

    Colonel Haiku (caa4c2)

  116. “…the latter of whom has no problem with big STATE government.”
    Comment by Kevin M — 12/19/2011 @ 2:29 pm

    The size of a state’s govt is strictly between the pols and voters of that state; besides which, I doubt that there are very many voters in TX who believe that they have a BIG govt.
    And, since quite a few functions were reserved to the States that were generally prohibited to the Federal Govt, the States have an entry into areas that we don’t think the Feds should tred.
    That it could be smaller?
    Probably, but what govt couldn’t.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  117. I doubt that there are very many voters in TX who believe that they have a BIG govt.

    But… but… EVERYTHING is BIG in Texas.

    Colonel Haiku (8699c3)

  118. Well, everything but THAT!

    Or, didn’t you hear about the cowboy who was 6’6″ of Texas dynamite, with a 4″ fuse?

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  119. I’am sure The left will say she was forced to side with the marxist ultra-left terrorists so Halliburton can rule Peru.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  120. All hat, no cattle.

    Reminds me of my friend, Shorty, from Albuquerque. He had a tattoo on his flaccid schwanzstucker that read “Shorty’s”. All the girls laughed until the appropriate moment, when it read “Shorty’s Bar & Grill, Albuquerque, New Mexico”

    Colonel Haiku (8699c3)

  121. I can’t believe it’s an even a question,

    http;//www.easelzippers.us/2011/12/19/carney-defends-biden-our-objective-is-not-to-kill-the-taliban-it-is-to-defeat-al-qaeda/#comment-431674

    narciso (87e966)

  122. Killing the Taliban is defeating alQaeda, except in the demented mind of the Left, typified by the moronic convergence known as the collected thoughts of Sloe-Joe Biden.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  123. Either they knew it couldn’t be done as they were advocating it and are engaged in fraud, or they didn’t think to ask and are just plain incompetent.
    I answer YES!

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  124. Um, you do realise that the Taliban and al Qaeada are two different groups? And that the Taliban were not involved in the 11-Sep-2001 attacks at all? So Biden’s distinction actually means something. I think he’s wrong about what our objective now needs to be; but he’s not talking nonsense.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  125. Taliban don’t like us so he is talking nonsense.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  126. Malkin links a quote from the 9/11 commission report, showing how the Taliban was just a mere
    sanctuary for AQ.

    narciso (87e966)

  127. the Taliban was just a mere
    sanctuary for AQ.

    Exactly. They had nothing to do with the attacks on us. It was their house guests who did it, and their only fault was in not handing them over when we demanded it. And that justified our invading Afghanistan and deposing them from power, and fighting to keep them from regaining power. I love pointing this out to those who think it somehow significant that Saddam Hussein (probably) was not involved in the attacks either.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  128. Sorry left out an article, from the link;

    The Taliban seemed to open the doors to all who wanted to come to Afghanistan to train in the camps. The alliance with the Taliban provided al Qaeda a sanctuary in which to train and indoctrinate fighters and terrorists, import weapons, forge ties with other jihad groups and leaders, and plot and staff terrorist schemes. While Bin Ladin maintained his own al Qaeda guesthouses and camps for vetting and training recruits, he also provided support to and benefited from the broad infrastructure of such facilities in Afghanistan made available to the global network of Islamist movements. U.S. intelligence estimates put the total number of fighters who underwent instruction in Bin Ladin-supported camps in Afghanistan from 1996 through 9/11 at 10,000 to 20,000.

    narciso (87e966)

  129. The Taliban, just another nice group of folks who give sanctuary to international terrorists.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  130. I get it the Dems want to extend the payroll tax cut for 2 months and then when it expires they can blame the repubs and fuel the fire.

    Funny how Dems neve rhave to agree with Repubs even when the Repubs pander to them.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  131. never have*

    Anytime the republicans don’t agree with Democraps they are acting like petulant children.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  132. Remember that the Taliban even offered to hand bin Laden over to an international tribunal. It was President Bush who refused this offer and insisted that the Taliban hand him over to us or face the consequences. They thought he was bluffing, and learned the hard way that he wasn’t.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  133. Right! ^^^ Therefore, it IS OUR objective to kill the Taliban.

    Sloe Joe strikes again!

    Icy (b15d2e)

  134. Israel hates Palestines because they want to kill Jews not because their Muslims got it paultards?

    I guess If the left finally wakes up and sees Islam as a threat we can accuse them of religious bigotry.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  135. Not only that Palestine can build their settlements in Jordan.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  136. #126 Thanks for the link, Narciso. I noticed a link in the side-bar that Ace of spades has endorsed Perry. I am an Independant, and must admit that Ace’s analysis of the average Indy is what I would call fairly accurate.
    I hate to think of myself as a low-information voter, but it could be argued by my close friends because I tend to play my cards close to my chest in all things political. I speak only for myself when I say that the tenor of a political post/article often affects how much time I devote to reading it.
    A great deal of what is offered in the media as “information” tends to be so obviously slanted that I refuse it a hearing -thus the low amount of “information” – at least that is my story.

    I read all of Aces post because I found him (in that post) to be sober, civil, and honest with me. That is something often lacking in punditry- something we Indies crave. Something not in short supply here at Patterico’s

    felipe (2ec14c)

  137. _____________________________________________

    When Marvin Liebman, a founder of the conservative Young Americans for Freedom and a longtime political activist, announced that he was gay in the pages of National Review,

    If 80 percent of gays were conservative or truly moderate instead of (ta-da!) flaming liberals, I’d see them in a different light.

    Some researchers have tried to correlate various genetic characteristics with homosexuality, including things like left or right handedness, the presence or absence of innate interests associated with gender (eg, sports and males, fashion and females), genital size, differences in the brain. But they’ve all overlooked the one question of whether leftist sentiment is a major component in triggering homosexuality or is a strong inducement to such behavior.

    Mark (411533)

  138. Ron Paul is not a racist white-supremacist because he supported the ground zero mosque

    /Paultards

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  139. “Remember that the Taliban even offered to hand bin Laden over to an international tribunal.”

    Milhouse – Remember there were multiple offers which came too late and which involved unacceptable conditions – provide us evidence that bin Laden was involved in the 9/11 attacks and stop your bombing campaign and then we may be prepared to hand him over – so no, not real offers.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  140. Ramesh Ponnuru recalls:

    In 2004, the House voted 414-1 for a resolution celebrating the 40th anniversary of the passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Paul not only voted no but gave a speech arguing that the act should never have been enacted. Employers who wish to discriminate against blacks, in his view, should be free to do so. A federal government that claims the power to override their decisions, he said, could also impose racial quotas. “Relations between the races have improved despite, not because of, the 1964 Civil Rights Act.”

    Obviously, this debate stretches back to ’64. But the Left would just as obviously bring this up (as they did with his son) and link it to the newsletters, just like they would link his stance on Israel to them. Anyone who thinks running Paul for President would advance any of these positions is simply fooling themselves. Anyone supporting Paul ought to ask whether they want to run against Obama’s miserable failures, or spend the entire campaign discussing segregated lunch counters.

    Karl (e39d6b)

  141. Raising taxes on the rich won’t make Michael Moore-on pay his fair share.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  142. I have an idea everytime someone supports raising taxes you should raise their taxes.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  143. Speaking of the Taliban and their relationship to 9/11, I would remind everyone that one of the provisions of the AUMF-01 was that we would deem anyone who offered sanctuary or support of any kind to the perpetrators of 9/11 as enemies of the United States.
    I believe it was with this predicate that we demanded the handover of OBL from the Afghani’s.
    They were told “or else”, and in effect said “who’s going to make us”, and found out the answer.

    AD-RtR/OS! (dadeb3)

  144. 148. Incompetence is just the whipped cream of the pie thrust in our face. Tastes good but does not mitigate the offense.

    Urkel does not give a rip, he’s effin us good.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  145. When you guys get done with the Taliban let’s re-hash the O’Donnell dust up. DE hasn’t suffered enough.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  146. Honestly, gary, if we can’t agree on the basics, the Taliban gave Bin Laden sanctuary, because they
    agreed with his view of Sharia, they might have objections against the attack in the long run, but
    like with the Nour clique in Egypt, they chose not
    to object to his methods.

    http://www.ruthfullyyours.com/2011/12/19/angelo-codevilla-is-there-a-republican-establishment-that-differs-from-and-is-antagonistic-to-people-who-vote-republican-see-note-please/

    narciso (87e966)

  147. 151. Agree completely, when Milhouse or any other regular, whose contribution legacy includes positives, goes batsh*t cwazzie just ignore the doof.

    If Bite-Me says something, it is by definition, stoopid. TEA Baggers are now not the enemy?

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  148. No, Gary, that’s not what I’m saying, now the Dubai traveller, who probably had Tom Cruise outside the lobby of the Burj Khalifa, is beyond hope, but we’re
    trying to establish principles that guide our selection, Newt has jettisoned too many, to my
    regret.

    narciso (87e966)

  149. Agree completely, when Milhouse or any other regular, whose contribution legacy includes positives, goes batsh*t cwazzie just ignore the doof.

    Excuse me? What did I write that was not the truth? It is a fact that the Taliban and al Qaeda are not the same thing. It is a fact that the Taliban had nothing to do with the attack on the USA.

    It is also a fact that we declared war not just on al Qaeda but with the entire Islamist network of which AQ was just a part. We could have chosen to go just after the attackers and nobody else; Clinton or Gore would probably have done that. But Bush decided to go after the whole network, and Congress agreed, and the world is a better place for that decision. And that is why the fact that Saddam Hussein (probably) had no connection to the 11-Sep-2001 attacks, which Bush-haters love to trumpet as if it means something terribly important, is really insignificant.

    Milhouse (ea66e3)

  150. Remember Saddam Hussein made offers to let U.N. inspectors into Iraq.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  151. As Scott Ritter informed us, before he took the Baksheesh, the Special Republican Guards, were the ones in charge of the WMD program, the wikileaks report from the field, referred in Pfarrer’s tome, indicates that a fair amount of these artefacts,
    slipped out of the country.

    narciso (87e966)

  152. “As Scott Ritter informed us”

    narciso – Isn’t Ritter one of Frad Briedman’s favorite kiddie diddlers?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  153. like I say before he was ‘compromised’ by the OFF program,

    narciso (87e966)

  154. Gorebull Warming is not real the Polar Bears are not going to extinct in the next 50 years because of it .

    Got it Eco-ninnes at the WWF?

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  155. Karl, I just noticed your “why not Gary Johnson?” question for libertarians. For me, its the abortion issue, but there are two ways for me to answer your question with a question: why aren’t bachmann and santorum leading the repulican race? And what, republicans are the only ones who can think about electability? Johnson is an admitted pothead, Paul was a doctor and an air force medic. While I obviously have no problems with potheads, are you trying to tell me that if Johnson was leading Iowa, you, ace, erick, and all the rest of them wouldn’t be going after him this hard?

    Keeping Johnson out of the debates only solidified Paul’s base. He was polling better than huntsman, but we don’t really want differing opinions in our big tent. And we all know that if another libertarian like Johnson was leading in Iowa, the republican establishment would find some lowlife to say that Johnson sold his 6 year old weed.

    Ghost (6f9de7)

  156. 153. Ok, not what is reasoned discourse on facts we agree on, but rather:

    What is a conservative candidate but one committed to restoring representation to conservatives.

    For example: Bachmann’s ideology is conservative orthodoxy she’s just not stable–not certain she should be driving let alone POTUS.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  157. Santorum’s focus on social issues is misdirected. It should target states rights to handle social concerns. Since when does the commerce clause or due process enable social engineering by the Feds?

    Social issues are not what unify the Right, only that they need not be off the table entirely.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  158. 163. Ann deriding the Right as bombthrowing birthers has got to be the most outrageous hypocrisy of the year by anyone more famous than PeeWee.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  159. That’s not what he has suggested, the problem is the current framework, doesn’t allow for state
    specific determination, all social issues must be subject to intermediate to strict scrutiny. which
    unexpectedly matches liberal prorogatives.

    narciso (87e966)

  160. To me, base on those running and in a position to get the nomination its Perry or Gingrich.

    IA will make or break Perry.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  161. 166. I’ll try to give a more careful read, but no time now. Thanks for the links.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  162. Gary, it really is all about focus, in my opinion.

    That is one reason I’ve had a hard time with Santorum. I don’t really care much about how people come across on TV (Santorum is always upset, but then… that’s genuine and while it’s bad prime time politics I actually think it’s reasonable).

    Some of these guys bring up issues just because they are polling. Some bring up issues just because they are not focused on what really matters.

    Rick Perry’s focus has been consistent for over two decades, and he’s touched every side of Texas’s policies as leg, lt gov, and gov, as well as shaping our exports. He’s always handled it well, and Texas’s success is due do the policies he’s always been championing (which is why it’s amusing when people trash the governor’s limited role… as though Perry wasn’t LT Gov before that).

    I don’t support Perry because he’s the ubermench. I don’t bother with argument about who is the most manly supporter or to support (one commenter here jokes about me being shot for not being macho Texan in my blog comments, and another likes to talk about how gay Perry is… this shows a focus on seeking a political leader to prove one’s own worth, which is utterly pathetic).

    I think most people are above that, which is why it’s probably either going to be Newt or Perry as you predict.

    I view Ron Paul votes as a vote of no confidence and an idealist plea for a complete overhaul. While I think most Ron Paul supporters are mistaken on a lot of issues, I respect where they are coming from on a lot of things. I just know that Ron’s foreign policy is damn perilous.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  163. It’s been kind of remarkable, how little job creation has counted for in this debate, yes Bain Capital had some successes (Sealy, Staples, Clear Channel,) but some rather dramatic mishaps. AmPAD
    and GSI to cite two examples.

    narciso (87e966)

  164. IA will make or break Perry.

    the cowboy perry
    had back broken months ago
    and fell off mountain

    Colonel Haiku (8699c3)

  165. It’s been kind of remarkable, how little job creation has counted for in this debate, yes Bain Capital had some successes (Sealy, Staples, Clear Channel,) but some rather dramatic mishaps. AmPAD
    and GSI to cite two examples.

    Comment by narciso

    It’s a mixed record, but none of Romney’s competitors are going to challenge his business record, as Romney does have a good one compared to those who don’t have one at all.

    That’s how it works. Everything is relative, and BS prevails. If someone notes Bain’s f-ups and outsourcing, the answer will be ‘hey, you weren’t in business! you’re a taker!!!’

    I mean, just look at how the three muskateers lined up to explain how when Romney praised how Obamacare is good for being similar to Romneycare in how it uses ‘incentives’ to get everyone on health insurance. That he can only be talking about the mandate being spread over the entire country doesn’t even matter to them. All that matters is BSing. I think it was thirty seconds because Al Sharpton Jr mentioned how he remembered someone bashing Mormons (for no relevant reason).

    This is what politics is like now.

    Ideology almost doesn’t matter to a large chunk of the folks pulling the levers at the RNC. It’s just finding a reliable status quo guy, claiming he is the only possible winner, and pretending that’s all that matters.

    No wonder so many people find Ron Paul and Hermann Cain so appealing! they want to send a message that they are sick and tired of the political system we’ve got. I think we’ve got a good political system that we just need to clean out.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  166. 171. The Elites have no idea how to persuade conservatives so they throw phosphorus bombs, e.g., Sunnunu and Coulter.

    They just highlight the Right’s issues with leadership.

    Since IA runs the top three past the hazer’s for final delegate selection neither Romney nor Paul can win, their conceivable total tops out at 25% in a three way.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  167. hawkeyes up for grabs
    heard it first or umpteenth from
    Bemidji Midget

    Colonel Haiku (8699c3)

  168. And this is Ann Coulter on what supposedly is the really bad thing about Newt Gingrich:

    http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/07/the-newt-history-you-ought-to-know/

    He was overly impressed by the ideas of Alvin Toffler, author of “Future Shock” and later “The Third Wave”

    Sammy Finkelman (d3daeb)

  169. Sammy, it’s so funny how Ann will harp on something obviously a lot more minor than, say, Romneycare.

    But she is what she is. Very entertaining when she’s not on a mission. Never have I found her sage. I mean, screaming that John Edwards is a fag? That was attention whoring at the expense of those who have much better arguments against Edwards. Screaming that the war on terror should result in forcefully converting everyone religiously? Stupid, but entertaining if you don’t take her seriously.

    I think Ann is probably one of the most effective Mitt advocates, much better than Rubin, but like all them, she simply bashes the crap out of the opponents and ignores how her own idea (in this case, her thesis is we should not nominate someone who wants handouts and deviates too far from conservatism). That is the Romney argument. Because the other guys are terrible in ways where Romney is actually worse but shut up.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  170. But it doesn’t jibe, Dustin, because it doesn’t match the other issues she’s espoused, Yes, Newt is kind of tech happy, and the internet was just reaching it’s fruition at the time of GOP victory,

    The alternative was Bob Michel, the go along to get along, party retread, the Mike Castle of the House,
    to pour salt on an old wound.

    narciso (87e966)

  171. PerryMan!

    Colonel Haiku (8699c3)

  172. Yes, narciso. It’s not going to really work so well with Ann’s most loyal readers. They believed her when she espoused core truths.

    Now, Ann isn’t wrong to note Newt is not truly reliable. sometimes he will go against the grain of conservative thought.

    It’s just that he’s running against… um… Mr Romneycare Gun Tax Abortion Rights.

    I would be happy… not jumping for joy but OK, if the result of this primary was Gingrich. We could do worse.

    Not because I love the guy, but we all need to be willing to compromise and we could do a lot worse. There’s a level of liberalism that is so bad I just can’t accept that much compromise in a primary, and Newt doesn’t reach that point for me.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  173. PerryMan!

    Comment by Colonel Haiku

    Troll.

    Who I might note is a far more reliable shill for Romney than I am for Perry, whom I’ve criticized on this blog and a dozen others for years, and also recently.

    I would rather nominate Mitch Daniels.

    Really, I’m a conservative who supports the most conservative candidate with the experience needed to do the job, which is Perry, despite Perry deviating from my views on three occasions and also making a horrible mess of his early debates.

    That you, a relentless Romney shill, have to project your core trait onto me, probably indicates quite a bit of self loathing.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  174. Ann’s relevance to the political debate seems to have attained an inverse scale with her enhanced bust size.

    AD-RtR/OS! (1e1a0b)

  175. Bachmann and Santorum need to go for the gold! They are the class acts of the also-rans.

    Colonel Haiku (8699c3)

  176. narciso, that is so frustrating. There are other people like Manning. It is deeply misguided to give them any encouragement.

    You would think a guy in the House would say it would be better to arrange a confidential meeting with an oversight committee if one has something serious to blow the whistle on.

    This is the complete opposite of Manning’s obvious revenge motive.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  177. 151. Pardon, but I believe I understood Codevilla rightly enough.

    Behead the GOP, pith them like frogs, spread their entrails for the birds to pick over.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  178. “As homosexual Army soldier Bradley Manning’s treason trial continues at Fort Meade, Maryland, the support he has received from Republican presidential candidate Ron Paul has been curiously ignored by the major media, now touting Paul as someone who could win the January 3 Iowa Republican Caucuses. Paul has called Manning, a crossdresser with acknowledged mental problems, a “hero” and “patriot” for stealing government secrets and providing them to WikiLeaks.”

    You ever notice that Ron Paul is a total psycho?

    I can hardly wait ’til he starts extolling the virtues of Benedict Arnold.

    What an idiot.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  179. O/T somewhat…
    But, I just picked up Mark Steyn’s Sunday column and he starts off noting that this is the time of year for traditions,
    such as “…the sacred performance of the annual ACLU lawsuit over the presence of an insufficiently secular ‘holiday’ tree...”.
    Unless I’ve been asleep, I must have missed the performance this season.
    Has there been one?
    And, if not, any thoughts on why not?

    AD-RtR/OS! (1e1a0b)

  180. You ever notice that Ron Paul is a total psycho?

    Yeah. Sheesh. If the guy is a deep undercover moby meant to bring discredit to the GOP, then he deserves some kind of commendation.

    What an embarrassment.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  181. “…You ever notice that Ron Paul is a total psycho?…What an idiot.”
    Comment by Dave Surls — 12/20/2011 @ 8:16 pm

    Well, there is something that we agree on today, Dave.

    AD-RtR/OS! (1e1a0b)

  182. 190. I confess I’m seriously prejudiced against Rand Paul.

    He’s got half of Daddy’s genes and they’re rotting.

    gary gulrud (d88477)

  183. From the ACLU website:
    Whatever the reason you celebrate the season, the promise of America is that you can. Season’s Greetings from the ACLU.

    Icy (7a23ed)

  184. So what’s your problem with the ACLU statement?

    B.Obama (857644)

  185. NEW YORK — The New York Civil Liberties Union today wrote to New York City officials and Brookfield Properties asking them to accommodate a Christmas prayer vigil at Zuccotti Park.
    — But no manger at City Hall; not unless it includes a live goat munching on a corporate CEO’s bonus check. 

    The NYCLU asked the city and Brookfield Properties to allow the group to bring items into the park, including food, chairs, prayer mats and musical instruments, during the vigil. Since the NYPD cleared the protesters’ encampment in Zuccotti Park on Nov. 16, Brookfield security guards and police officers have prevented some people from entering the park with many of these items.
    — Prayer circle meet drum circle!
    — Hold it right there, buddy! That ain’t no ‘frankincense’ you’re smoking. 
    — Squatters for the Lord? or, squatters for taking a crap on a cop car? 

    Occupy Faith will not violate any of the park rules.
    — If you were Faith would you want a bunch of jobless hippies occupying you?

    Icy (7a23ed)

  186. Occupy Faith is a particularly interesting turn of phrase that I think could prove very useful in the future.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  187. “What an embarrassment.”

    Yeah, no kidding.

    The existence of Ron Paul makes me want to hang my head in shame, just because I also hold some libertarian values.

    Dave Surls (46b08c)

  188. The jews killed Jesus because he was a muslim so that is why I hate jews too.

    /Ron Paul

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  189. Chuck Schumer and all democrap jews never cared about us little folk.

    Dohbiden (ef98f0)

  190. Bad Doh! ^^^

    Icy (826767)

  191. Doh, Icy is right. I know you’re being sarcastic, but that comes across as bashing democrat jews.

    Dustin (cb3719)

  192. Mark Steyn on Ron Paul, Thursday, 12/22:

    “Let’s say for a moment 9/11 was an inside job. Does that also mean the Bali night club bombing was an inside job? That the Madrid train bombing was an inside job? That the Beslan school shooting was an inside job? That the London tube bombings were an inside job? In that case, that’s one hell of a sum to be hiding somewhere within the darkest recesses of Dick Cheney’s specific line items…
    So we’re getting here into what is the problem with Ron Paul, which is the sheer stupid half-witted parochialism of his view of what’s going on out on the planet…And that’s why this is — this is a kind of utopian isolationism that fantasists on the right have embraced and at its darkest side, it meets the left coming around the other way in 9/11 truther conspiracy theories.”

    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/23/mark-steyn-on-ron-pauls-worldview-sheer-stupid-half-witted-parochialism/#ixzz1hPSoWGWU

    AD-RtR/OS! (5dcba8)


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