Patterico's Pontifications

3/4/2009

The Anti-Limbaugh Campaign: A Dessert Topping AND a Floor Wax

Filed under: General — Karl @ 11:12 am

[Posted by Karl]

At Hot Air, Ed Morrissey and Allahpundit think they have a disagreement over the point of the anti-Rush Limbaugh campaign being waged by Obama Administration, labor unions and the establishment media.  Morrissey calls it a deliberate strategy to cover up the Democrats’ economic incompetence and massively ineffective spending programs.  Allahpundit that “the Democrats are really trying to do is rebrand the GOP.”  Morrissey thinks any rebranding is “secondary.”

The reality is that the focus on Limbaugh is all of those things.  The GOP is a minority party with no single titular leader at the moment.  Obama’s Alinskyite politics require that the Left “pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”  The folks running this effort thus go to the influential – yet polarizing — figure of Rush Limbaugh.  Doing so necessarily promotes him, with the hope of forcing Republicans to either downplay Limbaugh (driving a wedge between them and their conservative base) or defend him (thereby making a polarizing figure more the face of the GOP).  It is no surprise to learn that James Carville and Paul Begala are part of this effort, as it is a variation of the Clinton Administration’s effort to make Newt Gingrich Bob Dole’s running mate in 1996.  The people behind this campaign do not see it as an “either-or” proposition; they see it as a “win-win” proposition.

Morrissey is also correct in asserting that it keeps the GOP on defense, though this is largely because GOP functionaries are only now figuring out that the attack on Limbaugh can be used to paint the Democrats as not keeping their eye on the economy, or trying to distract from the poor reception the Democrats’ agenda is getting in the financial markets.  The GOP might eventually figure out that they could have used the media’s uncritical parroting of the Left’s campaign against the media, which would quickly stop them from pursuing GOP functionaries about it.

Incidentally, the anti-Limbaugh campaign serves other political purposes neither Morrissey nor Allahpundit mention.  Rahm Emmanuel, Carvile, Begala and their ilk are certainly aware of Limbaugh’s effectiveness in helping drive campaigns against particular pieces of legislation, e.g., Clinton’s healthcare program, the McCain-Kennedy immigration bill, etc.  They undoubtedly want to marginalize Limbaugh as the Obama Administration moves forward on its insanely ambitious agenda.  Reminding the apolitical middle of how polarizing Limbaugh is and trying to force GOP officeholders into embracing or rejecting him also serves that function.

—–

Update: It appears that the Obama Administration may be seeing the downside of their campaign, now that even the establishment media has figured out how out of step it is with Obama’s normal disdain of “distractions.”  Accordingly, I would expect that this particular issue will be left to the union-backed special interests.  Whether the Obama White House has learned that Clintonite smashmouth politics is a bad fit for them is another matter.

Update II:  Though the issue is subsiding, Allahpundit  still wonders:

Why the fixation on Rush as a “private citizen”? The idea, I take it, is that Obama’s bringing the enormous power of the presidency to bear on a poor, defenseless Joe Public, but Limbaugh’s anything but defenseless (as today’s debate challenge proves) and considerably more powerful, I think we’d all agree, than the average congressman who would be considered fair game as a public official.

I thought the answer was in Morrissey’s original post:

It’s reminiscent of Nixon’s enemies list, and it comes from the supposed messiah of Hope and Change.

Indeed, I would suggest that one reason the usually Obama-friendly establishment media started questioning the White House on the Limbaugh attacks is the subconscious memory of the last Administration that obsessed over specific members of the media.  The media may love Obama, but they really love the media.  They might have given Obama a pass on Limbaugh, but the White House has also gone after Santelli, Cramer (even on the Today show), and CNBC in general.

–Karl

212 Responses to “The Anti-Limbaugh Campaign: A Dessert Topping AND a Floor Wax”

  1. Why doesn’t Michael Steele see this? Every time he is asked about Limbaugh, he should be saying “Why do you want to talk about Rush instead of the economy ?” This is the lesson every psychiatrist learns the first day of his or her training. Every time a patient asks about a topic, you say “Why is that important ?” It immediately turns the subject to the asker.

    MIke K (8df289)

  2. It certainly provides an opportunity to demonstrate that it’s harder to control the message nationwide than it is in Chicago. Or, at least, I hope that’s the case.

    Dan Collins (4dc2da)

  3. If Steele gets his head out of his ass, he might realize this is actually an opportunity for the GOP. Steele need not (and in fact should not) do the dirty knife work. Steele just needs to be the big smiling guy welcoming anyone dissolusioned by Democrats into the big big GOP tent. Steele needs to start working on his own 50 state strategy and let Rush be Rush.

    The Alinski model work both ways. We can use those rules just as well against the Dems, in fact even more effectively since they are in power. What do you think the campaigns against Pelosi, Reid and Frank were–they are prime targets.

    Joe (dcebbd)

  4. Lauer’s questions, so misleading and weighted.

    Vermont Neighbor (229b93)

  5. The great danger to the Left, that they probably can never admit to, is that as they attempt to demonize Rush, they expose him to the undecideds in the center, who will tune-in to find out what all of the commotion is about.
    Many that do, will become confirmed Rush listeners (Ditto-heads, if you will), who will stay, for the same reasons that the previous 20+Million have:
    Rush agrees with them!

    AD - RtR/OS (6b51ea)

  6. I don’t know if all of this is that thought out and deep and ominous on the Democratic side. I think it’s more like being handed a gift from a weak divisive person, who does in point of fact personify everything that is wrong with the GOP right now and it would be good to keep in mind that, no one forced Limbaugh to so thoroughly embarrass and emasculate Steele on his radio show.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  7. Could Be True Karl

    But true or not, isn’t Limbaugh laughing all the way to the bank?

    Oiram (983921)

  8. The GOP might eventually figure out that they could have used the media’s uncritical parroting of the Left’s campaign against the media, which would quickly stop them from pursuing GOP functionaries about it.

    Ayup. The right needs to learn to quickly call out anyone who is not playing straight up facts based journalism.

    Before saying a single other thing. Call. Them. On. Their. Bullshit. Then ask them if they’d like to proceed in an orderly fashion.

    It has come to the point where the bias is open and is effective. There are no more reasons to dance around the truth.

    Gloves must come off.

    ThomasD (211bbb)

  9. since the majority of the “fourth estate” and the Democractic Party are conjugal twins it is only natural to follow the progression: Media despied Regan, Media hated G.W. Bush.,and the media is the sworn Enemy of Rush Limbaugh.Ergo,he must be obliterated .This is one of many “…insanely ambitious agendas.,”of our 44th President.This is a deliberate strategy of people who only want the echo chamber of their views and thoughts.

    mike191 (4a5ed3)

  10. I see this as a net gain for Republicans “conservatives”.

    The left loathes rush and always will, no gain no loss.

    The fact is thousands of people who never listened to Rush have now or will soon tune in.

    Many will tune out but I believe some will say tuned in and some will become interested hearing the TRUE conservative message and philosophy.

    Rush’s ratings will tell the tale.

    This is the equivalent of Harry Reid and Nutroots smear using the “phony soldier” line on Rush, Rush raised 2 million dollars for the Troops on the back of Reid’s lunacy.

    There is no doubt this could be used to raise votes for republicans this time instead of money, the American voter is not as stupid as the democrats believe.

    186 (9bdddf)

  11. The problem with this strategy is it only works, long-term, if Obama’s economic, social and foreign policy ideas work.

    Even if the Fairness Doctrine was re-imposed, Limbaugh’s not going anywhere — his show is too important to too many 50,000 watt AM radio stations and their parent companies (including Citadel and Viacom, though the left thinks every station Rush is on is owned by Clear Channel). They might drop a Glenn Beck, a Laura Inghram or even a Hannity package if they were forced to for balance by the feds, but they’re not going to knock off their main target, because he anchors the ad revenues for most of those stations.

    So the White House can demonize Limbaugh, but he’s still going be around come November, December and into 2010 when the midterm election cycle starts. And by that time, if the economy hasn’t improved, new foreign problems have emerged and Obama’s social tinkering has produced the expected laws of unintended consequences, swing voters are not going to simply buy into continuing their support for Barack because Rush is being mean to him. And all those Democrats running for re-election in 2010 in red or purple states (or even red or purple districts in blue states) aren’t going to sit still for a strategy of trying to win the midterms by blaming the party’s problems on a radio talk show host if the Dow’s still down an the jobless and inflation rates are way up.

    John (692c5c)

  12. It’s nice to know the Obama administration has nothing more to say for itself than “we’re not Rush!”

    Way to lead, guys!

    Rob Crawford (04f50f)

  13. Who was it who said that the only thing BHO has ever run was his mouth?
    And, he doesn’t seem to be doing that all that well at the moment.

    AD - RtR/OS (6b51ea)

  14. Mario: “Could Be True Karl [...] But true or not, isn’t Limbaugh laughing all the way to the bank?”

    Way to go Mario… defocus from the topic with a little class-warfare making folks think that the only think Limbaugh cares about is his bank account. You guys are so friggin transparent, I’m surprised you cast a shadow.

    GM Roper (85dcd7)

  15. If I read the Politico report correctly, Dem strategists Stanley Greenberg and James Carville conducted a poll that showed Rush has high disapproval ratings among people under 40.

    So, Begala, Carville and Emmanuel (and probably Stephanopoulos) came up with the idea of attacking Rush as a win-win strategy. They’re smart guys and they’re probably right.

    Young people don’t listen to Rush and they can score points with these voters who are not inclined to find out what Rush really says as opposed to the talking points picked up by the media.

    Ag80 (3e2c59)

  16. I am sure that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is impressed that this administration is willing to take on a radio entertainer. He is probably ordering extra Ambien nightly.

    Huey (c6b131)

  17. Rush’s greatest contribution to the conservative cause and GOP over the years has been to lead non-idealogical voters to an understanding that their common sense beliefs aligned them with the conservative movement which has been part of the GOP since 1964.

    Non-idealogical voters who might have always assumed that their interests lie with unions or civil rights organizations, have been exposed to the fact that those organizations are largely run by extreme left wing factions of the Dem. Party coalition.

    He doesn’t so much “convert” them from being liberals to being conservatives, as to simply make them understand in common language that their principles and convictions have more in common with conservatives than liberals.

    So long as he sticks to this — enlightment of the vast swath of the electorate that ignores politics for 44 out of every 48 months — and leaves the mechanics of government to the people elected to that role, the two roles operates just fine together.

    WLS Shipwrecked (26b1e5)

  18. I think this has backfired in light of the Michael Calderone article on Politico which exposed this plan. It makes Obama look petty. Rush has now challenged Obama to a debate. Every attack from the Obama minions should be addressed to Obama. Rush should ignore who the “front man of the day is” whether it be Schumer, Begalla or others Rush should address it as an Obama attack.

    Dennis D (ae900a)

  19. You are right. We are sorry Rush.
    “You and I both know that in reality, you simply want President Obama to fail in this time of economic collapse. How can I disagree with that? Please accept my sincere apologies, oh great leader of the Republican Party.”
    From all of us.

    Emperor7 (1b037c)

  20. Young people don’t listen to Rush and they can score points with these voters who are not inclined to find out what Rush really says as opposed to the talking points picked up by the media.

    Young people like to do stuff they’re told they ought not be doing. there’s no better way to get them listening to him than to tell them not to do it.

    Pablo (99243e)

  21. You and I both know that in reality, you simply want President Obama to fail in exacerbating this time of economic collapse.

    FTFY, lovey.

    Pablo (99243e)

  22. The Clintonistas and the “Drive-By media” as Rush calls them, aren’t stupid–they are focusing on Rush himself rather than Rush’s speech at CPAC(which was a good general explanation and defense of conservative principles) because otherwise they might have to explain 1) why the market tanks every time Obama or Geithner open their mouths, 2) why putting more debt on the deficit in less than two months than Bush did in eight years is okay when the money doesn’t even exist and may not ever unless Hillary can convince China to buy even more T-bills over god knows how many years (which will have to be paid back somehow), and 3) why Russia is treating Obama like a chew toy (the closing of Manas AB and concessions on missile defense).

    The misconception that conservatives have allowed the media and Democrats(but I repeat myself) to implant in the public is that Steele is being grilled for “dissing” Rush. It’s only part of the story–Rush doesn’t really care that Steele called him an “entertainer,” he was pissed because Steele, the nominal head of the Republican party, got completely manipulated by DL Hughley of all people and allowed him to make the conversation about Rush rather than Rush’s speech specifically and defending conservatism in general.

    When Hughley started focusing on Rush, rather than sitting and nodding along, Steele should have pinned him to the mat and said, “So is there any problem that you actually had with his speech?” It’s the old Alinskyite tactic–don’t focus on what you don’t know, focus on what you do. Retards like Hughley couldn’t begin to accurately describe conservative principles and explain them in depth if he was given a road map and a GPS, so he focused on what he knew–the image of Rush as a clown. Steele needs to understand that Hughley and every other Democrat sees him as the enemy and someone to be destroyed, and he should be aggressive and principled enough to turn their hatred and contempt back on them.

    And quite frankly, if the supposed head of the Republican party is going to sit there and let a clown like Hughley call the members of his own party “Nazis” and not defend them, then there’s no question that Republicans should be questioning just how committed Steele is to defending the Republican party as a whole. Republicans and conservatives in general need to get it through their heads–the current political climate in this country doesn’t lend itself to reasoned debate or compromises. It’s a lulz-obsessed culture that plays into the generally infantile mindset of most leftists, especially the new generations of voters who after 30 years of declining educational standards are largely functionally illiterate and completely self-involved. If Republicans don’t treat their opponents in the same merciless way, then they WILL become irrelevant. The Howard Dean methodology (“I hate Republicans and everything they stand for”) is why the left has taken power in this country, and unless the Republicans start swimming in that sewer, they are going to drown.

    Another Chris (2d8013)

  23. If the Emperor rules anything, its’ subject must be named mariO.

    AD - RtR/OS (6b51ea)

  24. emperor7 said:

    You are right. We are sorry Rush.
    “You and I both know that in reality, you simply want President Obama to fail in this time of economic collapse. How can I disagree with that? Please accept my sincere apologies, oh great leader of the Republican Party.”
    From all of us.

    You have either never listened to Rush or you are willfully ignoring what he said. Neither advances your argument.

    Ag80 (3e2c59)

  25. Rush has now challenged Obama to a debate.

    I would love to see that – the chosen One would fold like a house of cards. He cannot debate anyone nor speak extemporaneously without his teleprompter.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  26. Rush is right. He is the new messiah. Worship his holy name. His name be praised. Obama is a witch-doctor. He wants to destroy America. He must fail. Praises be to the big, hard, long, painful RUSH! Rush we love you. We are sorry…..forgive us, Rush.

    Emperor7 who now (1b037c)

  27. I’ve been following all of this very closely. Obama elevates Rush and diminishes himself when he does this, and I say this as an avid Rush follower. Right now I’m not sure our Panic President could look smaller. Furthermore, only a lunatic could think Obama could beat Rush in a head-to-head debate. Rush spoke extemporaneously for nearly 1.5 hours Saturday night and Obama without a teleprompter and minions whispering in his ear is a mumbling, fumbling, inarticulate boob. He does not think on his feet. Lefties who hunger for a big match and smackdown don’t know what they’re wishing for.

    This is extremely entertaining. It has fired up not only Rush but Mark and Sean as well. I’m digging it. Meanwhile, Steele looks like a dimwit, and GOP functionaries never know their a$$es from a hole in the ground until Rush tells them. Swear to God.

    Peg C. (48175e)

  28. Since Teh One is the post-partisan healer of unity that brings people together, shouldn’t he be reaching out to Rush, rather than trying to demonize him?

    JD (63d902)

  29. I have come to the conclusion Lovey has never debated in faith. Lovey will never debate honestly, despite Lovey’s occasional forays into benign-appearing commentary.

    Those of you who warned me about Lovey, I apologize. I didn’t realize it was so poisonous and disingenuous. Lovey, get back on your bicycle. And this time, leave Toto behind.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  30. emperor whatever said:

    Rush Obama is right. He is the new messiah. Worship his holy name. His name be praised. Obama Rush is a witch-doctor. He wants to destroy America. He must fail. Praises be to the big, hard, long, painful RUSH Obama! Rush Obama we love you. We are sorry…..forgive us, Rush Obama.

    There, fixed it for you. Thank me later.

    Ag80 (3e2c59)

  31. And, by the way, Lovey, you really should pick that big huge book off your coffee table and actually read it from time to time.

    Just sayin’.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  32. JD, not to be obtuse, but when has Teh Won EVER reached out to anyone to HIS right, let alone anyone ON the right?

    GM Roper (85dcd7)

  33. Ahh, cpusa.com leader (american communist party) supports what B. Hussein Obama is doing. There’s some justification.

    I got that from watching him on Glenn Beck on Fox. Interesting interview, to say the least. (The communist stole Glenn’s cup of water while in the interview.)

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  34. Yeah, I don’t really get how the two are mutually exclusive either.

    Jim Treacher (796deb)

  35. [...] Patterico looks at the anti-Rush effort and the Anchoress reacts with excitement about Rush’s challenge [...]

    Anti-Rush campaign to be aided by White House « Wellsy’s World (725c82)

  36. I didn’t realize it was so poisonous and disingenuous.

    That’s ok – everyone eventually comes to the same conclusion. She’s just another passive – aggressive nutjob, period. Also gives actual Christians a bad name.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  37. I wholeheartedly agree with the commenter who said all this focus on a radio talk show host diminishes the administration. Instead of working on fixing problems, they’re planning attack strategy against an unelected public figure. I also find it amazing how those willing to demonize Rush have never listened to a single minute of his show. Like most others, Rush is cordial to polite liberal callers that don’t immediately start calling him names. Michael Savage, now there’s someone who might fit into the left’s cartoon caricature of a conservative talk host, although still the man is entertaining and at time thought-provoking.

    Wellsy (f1957b)

  38. RUSH CHALLENGES OBAMA TO A PISSING COMPETETION.
    You go Rush! Show that socialist monkey what a real man pisses like. :)

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (0c8c2c)

  39. Mario: “Could Be True Karl [...] But true or not, isn’t Limbaugh laughing all the way to the bank?”

    Way to go Mario… defocus from the topic with a little class-warfare making folks think that the only think Limbaugh cares about is his bank account. You guys are so friggin transparent, I’m surprised you cast a shadow.

    Comment by GM Roper — 3/4/2009 @ 1:07 pm

    GM, you crack me up.

    Have you been to Limbaugh’s web site lately?

    I have, there is a banner across his site that reads “Hilarious: Democrat Party Launches Yet Another Anti-Rush Website.”

    I looked into that he is refering to a web site put out by The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.
    See, they want Obama to succeed like a good American should.

    Why is Rush so quick to lead people to that web site?

    Short Anwswer: He will make bank on this.

    But hey good for him, he’s gonna need it if Obama can turn this thing around.

    Oiram (983921)

  40. See, they want Obama to succeed like a good American should.

    The way you wanted Bush to succeed.

    Jim Treacher (796deb)

  41. Lovey, do Christians a favor. Don’t lie and claim you are one. Nuff said.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  42. Just a side issue, but why all this media frenzy over that bitch called “Octomom”? God! it’s beginning to really really freak me out. I feel like feeling my hands around her neck and……
    Aaaaaarrrrrrrgggghhh!!!!!
    Whew! I am okay now. okay…..

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (0c8c2c)

  43. See, they want Obama to succeed like a good American should.

    Excuse me? I thought dissent was the highest form of patriotism. So, all of us patriots should be dissenting from Obama and hoping he doesn’t succeed. Embrace your inner patriot and start hoping this insane attempt at socialism fails.

    I’ll mock you across threads, Orifice.

    I shall mock you on the beaches, I shall mock you on the landing grounds, I shall mock you in the fields and in the streets, I shall mock you in the hills; I shall never relent.

    Steverino (69d941)

  44. Mario, keep going to Rush’s site. You might learn a thing or three, you certainly won’t learn anything bankable at any Obama site like the LA Times, NY Times or the revised .gov sites. And that is the problem young fella, nothing Obama is gonna do is gonna be bankable in the long run. :)

    GM Roper (85dcd7)

  45. Steverino, your allusions are totally lost on most currently-voting lib minds today. None of them actually learned about anything that has to do with FDR or WWII.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  46. “RUSH CHALLENGES OBAMA TO A PISSING COMPETETION.
    You go Rush! Show that socialist monkey what a real man pisses like.”

    Don’t make me chuckle lib. A pissing contest would be about who could top who in lies or something really macho like tiddlywinks. A debate on the other hand would be a catastrophe for the “O” a rout, a waterloo or perhaps a Gallopoli.

    Listen lib children, there is so much talent on this site and in these threads that you guys don’t have a chance. So, in the words of your favorite TV character — “Stifle”

    GM Roper (85dcd7)

  47. Since Teh One is the post-partisan healer of unity that brings people together, shouldn’t he be reaching out to Rush, rather than trying to demonize him?

    Comment by JD — 3/4/2009 @ 2:26 pm

    Why should Our President reach out to Rush?

    Rush is for entertainment purposes only JD, you know that.

    He criticizes him because Rush wants Obama to fail.

    I wish Obama would ignore him all together, but enough of you ditto heads worship him enough to keep him rolling in the dough. Obama is smart enough know that your all playing with fire.

    Oiram (983921)

  48. “RUSH CHALLENGES OBAMA TO A PISSING COMPETETION.
    You go Rush! Show that socialist monkey what a real man pisses like.”

    Don’t make me chuckle lib. A pissing contest would be about who could top who in lies or something really macho like tiddlywinks. A debate on the other hand would be a catastrophe for the “O” a rout, a waterloo or perhaps a Gallopoli.

    Listen lib children, there is so much talent on this site and in these threads that you guys don’t have a chance. So, in the words of the libs favorite TV character to hate, not recognizing that it was comedy — “Stifle” (although many of you YOUNG folk won’t recognize that reference.)

    GM Roper (85dcd7)

  49. #43 GM, your the one making libbs laugh.

    The talent here, is only good at spinning.

    They ought to teach a class on it at the nearest gym.

    Oiram (983921)

  50. While Moiron plays with tinker toys.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  51. They ought to teach a class on it at the nearest gym.

    When you go out to the barn to be serviced by Trigger, please remember to bring him a large carrot – helps to get him in the mood.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  52. Sure they did, John: FDR was a miracle worker who created the greatest retirement system in the universe — Social Security — and single-handedly led the country out of the Great Depression that Herbert Hoover caused in 1929 and kept on causing through 1941. Oh, and unicorns roamed the streets of the US during his administration.

    Steverino (69d941)

  53. Mario: “I wish Obama would ignore him all together, but enough of you ditto heads worship him enough to keep him rolling in the dough.”

    That’s funny mario… one can assume that you have an exhaustive list of all his sponsors and the sponsors of the 650+ radio stations he is on and that you NEVER buy from them. You don’t buy from them DO YOU MARIO?

    GM Roper (85dcd7)

  54. Steverino, your allusions are totally lost on most currently-voting lib minds today. None of them actually learned about anything that has to do with FDR or WWII.

    Comment by John Hitchcock — 3/4/2009 @ 3:08 pm

    No we did learn it John. The correct version actually.

    Not the version your taught at the Limbaugh school.

    Oiram (983921)

  55. Orifice, unlike you, I don’t listen to Limbaugh.

    Steverino (69d941)

  56. Well, mario, I was taught many things at the Limbaugh school, starting with the various homophones and extending to rules of contraction before being taught higher-order material.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  57. …and he got solid A+’s in Spelling and Syntax.

    AD - RtR/OS (6b51ea)

  58. Oh, and unicorns roamed the streets of the US during his administration.

    Silly me – I alway thought it was the dinosaurs.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  59. #50 I’m not that libb GM. I’m sure I Do Buy from Limbaugh’s sponsors.

    Until today, I didn’t know what station Rush was on. (Thanks Group)

    I will listen to him and I’m sure a commercial or two will permeate.

    GM, not sure if you listen to Hannity at KABC like I do…….. I could tell you from experience that he has many of the same sponsors as they do on Air America.

    In fact sometimes Hannity is reading word for word what Rachael Madow is reading for a sponsor.

    Oiram (983921)

  60. [...] Also writing: Andrea Shea King: dresses up the invite Ed Driscoll: Rush makes Obama an offer he can’t accept Susan Estrich: Warning Democrats about going after Rush Patterico: The press a dessert topping and a floor wax [...]

    Rush’s Riveting Radio Today | The Anchoress (a05f7c)

  61. Comment by GM Roper — 3/4/2009 @ 3:11 pm
    Stifle yourself,” or simply “Stifle!” was a frequent remark made by Archie Bunker on the 1970s sitcom “All in the Family”, most often to his long-winded wife Edith.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (0c8c2c)

  62. I love how Mario assumes that I listen to Rush, or am a dittohead. Its assumptions show the absolute shallowness of its “thoughts”.

    JD (5c059d)

  63. #53 Ahhh……. there it is…….. the grammar police!! What took you so long John?

    Great! :)

    Oiram (983921)

  64. Until today, I didn’t know what station Rush was on

    Oh, puh-leeze. Do you expect us to believe that barrell of doodoo?

    You live in the L.A. area, and apparently have for a while. You are undoubtedly familiar with KFI. There’s no way you couldn’t know what station carries Limbaugh.

    It’s one thing to be an idiot, but it’s another to be a lying idiot.

    Steverino (69d941)

  65. #59

    I like how JD thinks, that I think, that he listens to Rush.

    I know he doesn’t, he made that clear to me about a week or two ago.

    Hey DJ Spinmeister, please tell me which comment number on this tread leads you to believe that I think you like Rush?

    Oiram (983921)

  66. Mario, when you declare yourself smart and conservatives dumb, do you really expect the dumb conservatives to stand idly by while you show your smartness in your ability to properly use the English language?

    Or are we supposed to kowtow to the abject poverty that is your intellectual capacity?

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  67. Eh, this is junior high school kabuki.

    Here’s what’s going on: Obama is a wimp. He knows this and wants to do something about it to change the perception. Change the perception mind you, not actually change himself.

    So how does a wimp do this? He very publicly picks a fight with someone he will not actually have to fight. That way he demonstrate courage without risking getting hurt.

    Only two little problems so far. Real tough guys like Putin see through this and will stub out their cigarettes on his forehead, as he just did with a Nyet! to Obama’s missile offer. Secondly, your target may want to fight, and Rush called out Obama on this morning’s show.

    Well my guess is by next week, Obama will offer up some shuck and jive about just funnin’ with Rush and how it’s all cool that we can disagree on principles, blah, blah…

    Look for another market drop when the public realizes what we’re stuck with for 4 years.

    TakeFive (7c6fd5)

  68. Mario, I would suggest you shove something somewhere, but your cranium amounts to a blockage preventing you from following through on my suggestion.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  69. #61 Steverino. Dead serious man.

    I had no idea. And believe me I love to listen to opposing points of view.

    Dennis Miller is still my favorite. At least he cracks me up. Although I hear Limbaugh is trying to be funny too.

    Oiram (983921)

  70. Why can’t John McCain be the new leader of the Republican party? That is if my lord Rush doesn’t mind. Rush I am so sorry. Did I derail again? :(

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (0c8c2c)

  71. #58: Big deal. You know how to Google.

    Being able to search on-line is no substitute for knowledge, son.

    Dr. K (19f1de)

  72. Lovey, you’re nothing but a deceptive poison claiming to be something else. Go back to sucking the jam from between B. Hussein Obama’s toes. Go back to claiming any dissent against B. Hussein Obama is anti-whatever. Never again claim to be honest. And, with your chosen foul language and hate, never again claim you are a Christian.

    As Stashiu would say,

    God
    Forgives
    You

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  73. #

    Mario, when you declare yourself smart and conservatives dumb, do you really expect the dumb conservatives to stand idly by while you show your smartness in your ability to properly use the English language?

    Or are we supposed to kowtow to the abject poverty that is your intellectual capacity?

    Comment by John Hitchcock — 3/4/2009 @ 3:43 pm

    Hey John, here’s a clue.

    I’m not smart. And I don’t think Conservatives are dumb.

    They know exactly what they are doing.

    That’s what worries me.

    Oiram (983921)

  74. #69.

    Love it………

    The more John thumps out the moronic criticism, the more you know he’s been gotten to.

    Oiram (983921)

  75. I’m not smart.

    Finally! You got something right.

    Dr. K (19f1de)

  76. Lovey – How’s my dick taste?

    Barack Obama (5d22c0)

  77. #72 Yeah it is about time eh Dr.? ;)

    Oiram (983921)

  78. Comment by John Hitchcock — 3/4/2009 @ 3:51 pm
    John, I can’t hear you show respect to the great hoper of failure of our time. Rush Limboat. Have you apologized to lord Rush today?

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (0c8c2c)

  79. Whoever posted as B.O. that was over the top and even I cannot condone that comment.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  80. Comment by Barack Obama — 3/4/2009 @ 3:58 pm
    Like your wife’s garden. ;)

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (0c8c2c)

  81. Right-wing paranoia is a gift that keeps on giving to the Democrats.

    The Rush thing is like a thousand Christmases…

    Like Pat points out, it’s lose, lose, lose for the Republicans.

    Defend Rush: you lose because he’s an irresponsible ideotainer. Remember, he can never label himself a serious commentator because his program is so full of factual errors and bald misrepresentations. Over the years, he’s always defended his reign of error by claiming to be an entertainer.

    Attack Rush: you lose because he’s the most popular conservative commentator and legions of wingnuts can’t really tell the difference between ideotainment and commentary.

    Attack the media: you lose because, while your talking point is that the Democrats are distracting Americans, the reality is that the squealing, squirming blast of paranoia coming from the wingnut movement itself is the only thing giving this Rush thing legs.

    Merry Christmas Mr. Limbaugh.

    Hax Vobiscum (4012df)

  82. Lovey, have you ever apologized to God for supporting a man who supports abortion up to 3 hours after birth? Check back with me after accept your sin in that, pledge to correct your sin, issue an honest statement (that’ll be the most difficult part) abhorring such actions and opposing any who vote to make such actions legal.

    Until then, floss might get Obama’s toe-jam out from between your teeth.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  83. Being able to search on-line is no substitute for knowledge, son.

    Comment by Dr. K — 3/4/2009 @ 3:49 pm
    Oh yeah? How do you suppose people do get knowledge without actually searching for it, Doc? It is said, “seek and you shall find.” So to get knowledge, one has to search for it.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (0c8c2c)

  84. #79 Your so right John………

    Glad to know you feel that way about the death penalty too (while we’re off the subject).

    Oiram (983921)

  85. Mario, learn how to use grammar, homophones, contractions. Then learn obfuscation never extends an honest debate. And learn the difference between innocence and guilt.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  86. Comment by John Hitchcock — 3/4/2009 @ 4:12 pm
    You will address me as your Emperor from now, John Hitchcock.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (0c8c2c)

  87. #80:

    Well, they could have read it off-line, studied the topic, or lived it.

    Would you go to an MD who did all of hie/her studies on-line and nevr touched a patient?

    Or a lawyer who only looks stuff up on the internet without actually knowing the law?

    Google or Wiki is simply information, it is not information. Try to learn the difference.

    Dr. K (19f1de)

  88. Damn me. That should be not knowledge

    Dr. K (19f1de)

  89. Doc, you’re talking to someone who still has to learn about apostrophes.

    AD - RtR/OS (6b51ea)

  90. #82

    And learn the difference between innocence and guilt.

    Hey John, learn what the meaning of “Thou Shall Not Kill” means.

    Apply that to what most Conservatives believe is tolerable, and treat them the way you treat pro choice liberals.

    And then maybe I will listen to what you have to say about abortion.

    Try listening to the consistency of the Catholic church if abortion is such a major issue for you.

    Oiram (983921)

  91. Damn me.
    Comment by Dr. K — 3/4/2009 @ 4:20 pm

    I wouldn’t go that far Doc.
    But you must concede at least that information leads to knowledge.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (0c8c2c)

  92. Doc, you’re talking to someone who still has to learn about apostrophes.

    Comment by AD – RtR/OS — 3/4/2009 @ 4:22 pm

    Oh’ yeah’ its about’s times’s AD’s jumped’ on boards’s with the grammars ‘ police :)

    Oiram (983921)

  93. Hmmmm…. JD has left the building since I put him to the task of finding out which comment I accused him of being a Rush listener.

    Hate to think of what you asshats would think of me if I did that.

    Perhaps he’s busy…….. couldn’t be really……..I’ve used that “excuse” myself right?

    Oiram (983921)

  94. Hey John, learn what the meaning of “Thou Shall Not Kill” means.

    Hey, douchenozzle, learn that the original Hebrew text reads “murder”, not “kill”. There’s a difference between the words.

    Steverino (69d941)

  95. Comment by Oiram — 3/4/2009 @ 4:30 pm

    Have you seen the light Oiram? Have you said your apologies to the great Rush Limbaugh? :) (His holy name be praised…)

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (0c8c2c)

  96. Hey Emperor7, if we try hard enough. Maybe we could get all of the Conservatives to converge on this site.

    They will be so busy here that they wont have a chance to continue to wreck the country.

    A win for Patterico and a win for us!

    Oiram (983921)

  97. You see, folks? It’s all a game. Which is too bad.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  98. It seems everyone has asorbed the media meme about Nixon’s “enemies list.” If you go back and read the various articles and commentary about the “discovery” of the “enemies list,” you will learn that the list was not, as it is now commonly believed, an “enemies list” but a list of people who were not to be invited to White House functions.

    For the information of those too young to remember, every President since Washington had simular lists of people who were not to be invited to Presidental functions. It was a common practice, not only in the White House, but in most houses, whether political in nature or not, to recognize that some people should not be invited to certain functions.

    Also, unlike some of his predecessors, Nixon took no action against the people on his “enemies list” except to exclude them from White House functions. Compare that with JFK’s ordering an audit of Nixon’s 300 biggest financial supporters once he got into office.

    Longwalker (4e0dda)

  99. And then maybe I will listen to what you have to say about abortion.

    Abortion will be morally equivalent to capital punishment only after the following steps are taken:

    1. There’s a trial in which the embryo/fetus is convicted of some crime.
    2. There’s a penalty phase during which the embryo/fetus has character witnesses to argue against it being killed.
    3. There is about 20 years of appeals before the sentence is finally carried out.

    Arguing that abortion is morally equivalent to executing a murderer is heinous.

    Steverino (69d941)

  100. This thread has deteriorated a bit. The fact remains that Limbaugh is not fazed by the attacks from Obama and it does look petty to see the president attacking a citizen by name. Imagine if Bush had said something about Olberman or another of the media midgets who were constantly sliming him.

    Steele has handled this badly and needs to get back on message which is that Obama is trashing the economy and doesn’t even know what a stock’s price/earning ratio is.

    Let alone his moronic appeal to the Russians, which has now alienated the Poles and the other former East Bloc countries who were our only allies in Europe. Next he will alienate India, if he hasn’t already begun.

    The guy is a disaster and the lefties think Rush Limbaugh is the problem.

    Mike K (f89cb3)

  101. #92 Emperor7

    There’s not enough room on Limbaugh’s arse for my lips. Therefore I can’t praise him.

    He’s got too many of the Republicans lips glued on.

    Oiram (983921)

  102. Comment by Oiram — 3/4/2009 @ 4:36 pm
    Now that’s a stimulating thought. ;)

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  103. #97 Sorry Mike, I’m not an Olbermann fan, but I can’t remember him ever stating that he wanted Bush to fail.

    Your helping the thread deteriorate further with that comment.

    Oiram (983921)

  104. Arguing that abortion is morally equivalent to executing a murderer is heinous.

    Comment by Steverino — 3/4/2009 @ 4:40 pm

    I’m not arguing that the two are morally equivalent. I’m against both. But I’ll abide by the laws we have on our books.

    Using faith based arguments in a political fashion the way John H. does, and excluding Capitol Punishment is hypocritical to say the least.

    Oiram (983921)

  105. #94

    You see, folks? It’s all a game. Which is too bad.

    Comment by Eric Blair — 3/4/2009 @ 4:38 pm

    Thank you Eric…. so true, so true.

    Now try and convince me that Republicans have not been playing the same game ever since Obama got into office.

    Oiram (983921)

  106. Patrick,
    A columnist at Feministe has written the Rush Limbaugh said James Earl Ray deserved a Cong Medal of Honor for killing Rev King.(March 03)has any one any sourcing for this kind of filth?Or has anyone heard of Mr Limbaugh saying this ?I believe I’ve listened to him twice(But bought a couple of books) and it doesn’t seem plausible.

    corwin (b5b10d)

  107. Murderers are to be killed.
    Rapists are to be killed.
    Other moral offenses are to be solved by killing the culprit.

    Those are in the Bible. Check it out some time.

    And, no, I’m not suggesting adulterers should be killed.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  108. Hey, douchenozzle, learn that the original Hebrew text reads “murder”, not “kill”. There’s a difference between the words.

    Comment by Steverino — 3/4/2009 @ 4:35 pm

    Ahh yes the convenient interpretation of Murder and Kill.

    Save it Steverino, I’ve heard it all before.

    It’s Crap.

    Oiram (983921)

  109. Oh, for the love of God, Oiram (if that name makes you happy). Are you seriously claiming that Olbermann has not said things much, much, much worse about GW Bush than Limbaugh has about Obama?

    Come on!

    Oh, yeah, that’s right: you are not a fan of Olbermann. Just another concerned….

    Then you are going to say that the situations aren’t comparable.

    Still, the most ironic part was your last sentence criticizing someone else for causing the thread to deteriorate.

    Sigh. And you wonder why people call you a troll.

    No one else does.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  110. #104 Can be added to my comment at #105 (sorry, didn’t see your interpretations their John).

    Out of here.

    Oiram (983921)

  111. If only the last bit of #107 was an actual fact….

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  112. Why do these Republicans love to whine? First you say you wish Obama fails and now you say you are being attacked and distracted and marginalized. The world tastes much better when we learn to pull our tongues off Rush’s ass. Oops! I just sinned against the great One. :)

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  113. I honestly thought better of you. It’s sad when you display the worst that others have written about you. Your post is another example.

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  114. in his arrogance, Obama has opened a can of worms that was better left alone. rush is not in congress, there would be no ” distinguished gentleman” from wherever. rush will not be hindered by any “rules”. we also need to stop letting the left define who we are. Steele is not the leader of the republican party, he chairs the RNC. they are not the same. Obama does and says foolish things, but is in no way a fool. and he would be a fool, if he accepted this challenge. which means he won’t. Obama also attacked hannity, saying ” he or his supporters wouldn’t want to even have a beer with him”. so hannity offers to have a beer with him. all hannity got was dead silence. maybe he is a fool. IDK, but he sure doesn’t choose all his battles wisely.

    mr. falcone (cf2600)

  115. First you say you wish Obama fails and now you say you are being attacked and distracted and marginalized.

    If the DOW dropping 4500 points in two months and the Russians making Obama their bitch is him succeeding, what does Obama failing look like?

    Another Chris (a3bb8f)

  116. It’s okay, lovey. When the bill comes due, you and your grandkids will pay through the nose. And blogs like this will be replaced by state mandated crap like you see for Kim Jong-Il. Remember… 47% said No-Bama. I’d say your boy’s promise to wipe out party divisions has failed spectacularly. But we always knew he was going to do it Chicago-style. At what point can you admit fraud and failure? At what point can you agree that he should accept Limbaugh’s offer to appear on the show and debate? Can you imagine the b l o o d ? God, he should do it! The Organizer, who flaunts that the Constitution is “deeply flawed” would have his ass handed to him….. by an Entertainer (another smiley here!).

    Vermont Neighbor (229b93)

  117. You will address me as your Emperor from now,

    I prefer Hose Monster…or Head Tranny, whichever you prefer at the moment.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  118. If the DOW dropping 4500 points in two months and the Russians making Obama their bitch is him succeeding, what does Obama failing look like?

    He has his skirt up over his head. The view’s better that way.

    Vermont Neighbor (229b93)

  119. Oiram, you seem to often label “crap” when what has actually happened is that you’ve again shown your ignorance.

    The line “Thou shalt not kill” is from the King James translation of the bible made more than four centuries ago. At that time, the english word “kill” meant murder. The word for a lawful killing was “slay”.

    But please keep calling “crap” when you are being schooled.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  120. There’s absolutely nothing for Obama to gain by getting into a spat with Limbaugh. It raises Limbaugh’s statue as a political opponent and degrades Obama to the level of reacting to Limbaugh’s influence.

    Presidents are most effective when they seem above the partisan fray, even when they’re really not.

    Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R., who implores DRJ to remain at Patterico! (a935b6)

  121. Comment by Eric Blair — 3/4/2009 @ 5:08 pm
    I also thought better of you Eric. Didn’t know you could be so touchy and sensitive. Grow up! And as a side note, I don’t give a rat’s ass what stupid people have to say about me. When someone misses the way, call him to order. You know that the rhetoric coming from Rush about this presidency is not in the best interest of the Republican party. Nor the country. But you won’t say so for fear of falling out with your fellow echo chamber members. Even when it is causing a rift among your party members. But don’t let me stop your imploding process.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  122. Emperor7, you seem a poor judge of what is in the best interest of either the GOP or the country.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  123. Obama’s using Rush just to distract. His package is crap and the specifics are bringing down his numbers.

    Vermont Neighbor (229b93)

  124. Comment by Dmac — 3/4/2009 @ 5:19 pm
    Hey, get that little thingy out of the vacuum cleaner, Doofus. And wipe that mess off the floor! Jeez, That smell!

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  125. And you were telling others to grow up, Emperor7?

    To what end?

    SPQR (26be8b)

  126. America succeeding = Obama failing. Rush is only asking for America to be allowed to succeed. Bush’s recession stopped in January… his record on the economy is pretty good… deficits as a percentage of GDP relatively unchanged and the disaster after 9/11 completely turned around.

    Rush is a breath of fresh air, and Obama is playing into his hands, not vice versa. He’s a great normal man that most people have deep misconceptions about. Now, it’s cool to listen to him, and that’s going to help Rush tremendously and harm Obama as well.

    Obama clearly isn’t ready to lead.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  127. nk, Geithner is really a clown.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  128. And check out Obama’s approval rating for a steep decline that even Bush would shudder to be exposed to.

    Obama has been schooled by a radio commentator, russia, argentina, iran, and Pelosi. He’s just not fit for command.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  129. You know that the rhetoric coming from Rush about this presidency is not in the best interest of the Republican party. Nor the country.

    What the hell do you know about what’s in the best interests of the country, you worthless little thief? Tapeworms like you are the reason the country is in the dumper right now, because you’re a little jealous bitch that can’t stand it when people have more money than you. You’re nothing more than a petty crook, except you have to use the government to steal from me because you don’t have the guts to do it yourself. At least if you were begging in the street you’d be getting your welfare honestly, but instead I’m forced to cover your worthless ass despite the fact I’ve been responsible with my income and spending habits my whole life.

    You want to contribute to the best interests of the country? Stick a loaded revolver in your mouth and pull the trigger, so your toxic self is no longer a drain on this country or my pocketbook.

    Another Chris (a3bb8f)

  130. Comment by Brother Bradley J. Fikes, C.O.R., who implores DRJ to remain at Patterico! — 3/4/2009 @ 5:21 pm
    You are right. Obama ain’t no fool. He has nothing to gain from a debate with a loser like Rush. Rush is just angling for more ratings and cash. He (Obama) is already the President of the USA. He got there by many things among which was winning debates. 3 times if I may add. Meanwhile Rush is enjoying some cheap attention and praise for challenging the President to a duel. It’s all good.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  131. And you were telling others to grow up, Emperor7?

    To what end?

    Comment by SPQR — 3/4/2009 @ 5:34 pm

    Let’s just all ignore the little slime, everybody.

    nk (502275)

  132. This piece was in the Denver Post where I first saw it. Its a good answer to the dishonest attacks on Rush regarding his comment about Obama not succeeding.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  133. Comment by Another Chris — 3/4/2009 @ 5:38 pm
    Please take your mental derangement elsewhere, lunatic. And stop skipping those drugs.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  134. Let’s just all ignore the little slime, everybody.

    Comment by nk — 3/4/2009 @ 5:39 pm
    And along comes the pig. Oink oink. Hey piggy piggy.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  135. Obama is a liar on every campaign promise. Except the unspoken promise that he’s here for one reason: to bring down America. Install socialism, and as quickly as possible. Rush is fantastic to call it for what it is. (And you know he was targeted by the administration; he didn’t seek them out.) Carville and those guys did a Dem poll with Rush’s name just to see stats.

    Post o’ the day:

    What the hell do you know about what’s in the best interests of the country, you worthless little thief? Tapeworms like you are the reason the country is in the dumper right now, because you’re a little jealous bitch that can’t stand it when people have more money than you. You’re nothing more than a petty crook, except you have to use the government to steal from me because you don’t have the guts to do it yourself. At least if you were begging in the street you’d be getting your welfare honestly, but instead I’m forced to cover your worthless ass despite the fact I’ve been responsible with my income and spending habits my whole life.

    Vermont Neighbor (229b93)

  136. The Emperor is only here to keep all talk OFF the ‘stimulus.’

    Vermont Neighbor (229b93)

  137. Please take your mental derangement elsewhere, lunatic. And stop skipping those drugs.

    Please perform a self-hysterectomy, you little herpes sore. And stop hiding small children in your basement.

    Another Chris (a3bb8f)

  138. First we have this gem:

    But don’t let me stop your imploding process.

    To be followed by the usual crack – up:

    Hey, get that little thingy out of the vacuum cleaner, Doofus.

    And along comes the pig.

    See what I mean, John? All you have to do is push a stick into it’s cage, and the real animal reveals itself, frothing at the mouth at will.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  139. Another great one from Treacher:

    “Headline you’ll never see:
    Obama Promises to Meet Limbaugh Without Preconditions”

    Vermont Neighbor (229b93)

  140. Headline we probably will see:

    “Putin to Obama: How’s My Ass Taste?”

    Another Chris (a3bb8f)

  141. Mario said:

    “Hey Emperor7, if we try hard enough. Maybe we could get all of the Conservatives to converge on this site.

    They will be so busy here that they wont have a chance to continue to wreck the country.

    A win for Patterico and a win for us!”

    What are conservatives doing to “wreck the country?” I know you disagree with them, but specifically, what are they doing? They don’t have a majority in either House of Congress. They don’t even have the ability to stop passage of bills in either House.

    If we know what you mean, then we can discuss that. And, you might be able to change a mind or two.

    This tit-for-tat baiting is amusing. And, sometimes I participate. But, I usually try to back my assertions with some sort of reason, whether you agree with it or not.

    I hate to be repetitive since so many have already made the point, but why shouldn’t Rush — and conservatives — want President Obama’s policies to fail? They are diametrically opposed to what conservatives believe. Rush, himself, said he doesn’t want the President to fail personally, he wants his policies to fail. Didn’t the left want Bush policies to fail? We can go back and review the record. I think I’ll be proven correct.

    I don’t want the President to fail, I want him to change course. I don’t believe higher taxes, expanding debt and socialization are the right way to go.

    But, you know what, I may be wrong in the long run. We’ll see. However, I know I don’t want to live in a European-type social progressive society. That’s just me and I may have no choice.

    I know the usual suspects will come back and say, “Well Bush did the same thing. He ran the deficit up and blah, blah, blah.” And you would be right.

    However, if Bush did it — and it was wrong — why is it right if President Obama does it?

    Anyway, again, snark is fun, but legitimate discussion can be fun, too.

    Ag80 (3e2c59)

  142. The Emperor is only here to keep all talk OFF the ’stimulus.’

    Comment by Vermont Neighbor — 3/4/2009 @ 5:52 pm
    Mmmmmgh. The Stimulus package. Funny I came across this little info on how the Stimulus bill would benefit Vermont positively.

    Stimulus package could have major impact in Vermont
    Wednesday February 18, 2009
    Bob Kinzel

    Montpelier, Vt.

    AP Photo/Toby Talbot
    Vermont Agency of Transportation workers look over a set of plans for a stimulus-ready project in Montpelier, Vt., Tuesday, Feb. 17, 2009 From left, Danny Landry, Jim Clancy and Molly Perrigo
    (Host) The newly adopted federal stimulus package could have a major impact in Vermont in the near future.
    State officials say dozens of bridge and road projects could be started in the coming weeks, and they expect these projects will boost employment in the construction industry.

    VPRs Bob Kinzel reports:

    (Kinzel) Now that the federal stimulus package has been signed into law, state officials have a better understanding of how the bill will affect Vermont.

    The state is expected to receive $130 million for a variety of transportation projects and the bill eliminates the need for the state to provide any matching funds for these projects.

    Senate Appropriations chairwoman Susan Bartlett says Vermont is well prepared to use this money because the state has an established priority list for most transportation projects:

    (Bartlett) “The great thing is because the priorities have been set and the projects are ready that we’re going to be able to start getting money out the door really fast. We do have a little thing called inclement weather up here that slows us down a little in the Spring but as soon as Spring rolls around I expect there are going to be a lot of construction jobs all over this state.”

    Bartlett is hoping that Vermont will have a lot of flexibility in using so called fiscal stabilization funds in the bill. The state is expected to receive $100 million from this program.

    This part of the bill is designed to help states rehire teachers and police officers who have lost their jobs. Bartlett says Vermont doesn’t fall into this category and she wants to use the money for one time efforts to restructure state government:

    (Bartlett) “We don’t want to do base building here, we don’t want to say oh boy let’s add 75 new whatever positions because at the end of two years this money is gone … and a lot of times you need some transitional money if you want to change the structure so I think we’re going to be looking at this money and saying gee here may be some structural changes maybe we can use this for some transitional changes.””

    Vermont is expected to receive an additional $250 million for Medicaid programs but there are questions if the state will qualify for its full allotment. That’s because the legislation withholds some money if a state moves to limit eligibility in these programs.

    The Douglas Administration has proposed increasing premiums, co payments and deductibles for some Medicaid programs. Administration Secretary Neale Lunderville thinks these changes can be made without jeopardizing any federal money:

    (Lunderville) “We’re going to review that very closely there may be some flexibility there there’s a question of what exactly does the bill mean … because what it says and the things that we’re proposing may be fine we don’t know we’re trying to work that out.”

    There are also billions of dollars in the bill that are available for renewable energy and broadband projects on a competitive grant basis.
    State officials are hoping to agree on a preliminary list of these projects by the end of next week.

    For VPR News I’m Bob Kinzel in Montpelier.
    So, enough of the hypocricy.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  143. Rush is just angling for more ratings and cash..

    Right. Because 20 million listeners and a private jet just isn’t enough!!

    One thing I am continually amused at is how the people most derisive toward Rush have the strongest reactions. If he was truly irrelevant one would think they would just blow him off. …and yet these continual Pavolovian responses give their hand away.

    Heh.

    Dana (137151)

  144. Emporer, thanks for the cut and paste but we can’t make states dependent on the federal gov’t. Nor can we break our budget for those who don’t even contribute. They figured this out back in Plymouth days.

    I’ve never been to VT. My handle is a Howard Dean thing from a few years ago.

    Vermont Neighbor (229b93)

  145. #97 Sorry Mike, I’m not an Olbermann fan, but I can’t remember him ever stating that he wanted Bush to fail.

    Your helping the thread deteriorate further with that comment.

    Comment by Oiram

    I’ve made the mistake responding to these trolls and have watched them get nastier and more obscene.

    If you aren’t a “fan” how do you know what he’s said ? His almost daily sliming of Bush should not be news, even to you.

    The other one is getting hysterical with abuse. They would have been banned long ago from a left wing site.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  146. Comment by Another Chris — 3/4/2009 @ 6:03 pm
    Stupid little swine. You stink! Idiot.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  147. Emporer, thanks for the cut and paste but we can’t make states dependent on the federal gov’t.

    What’s even sillier is Bartlett admits that they won’t be using the money to actually create new jobs, because the money won’t be there in two years. They’re taking money that is supposed to go towards rehiring teachers and cops and allocating it elsewhere. So how is using money on projects that would normally be in a transportation bill, and will NOT be used to actually provide people with jobs, a “stimulus”? Talk about damning with faint praise.

    Another Chris (a3bb8f)

  148. I notice the same old die hards here year after year spouting the same old ignorant remarks. Some never learn.

    Bottom line is that radical conservatives listened to Rush and had their chance. So tell us, what good did your tax cuts for the rich of three years ago do? You know, the ones that were supposed to bring such prosperity? Where are your jobs and what is your economic future now?

    Where are those WMDs you sent our soldiers to fight and die for? and remember how you questioned the patriotism of anyone that urged caution?

    And what is the result of the massive deregulation off the banking industry you so passionately fought for?

    We tried to warn you years ago on this very blog but you didnt want to listen. So you rushed ahead and what is the result..

    You have bankrupted the nation. You have engaged in senseless wars, you have disgraced the flag and attacked the Constitution. But still you continue spouting high sounding platitudes on one hand and laughable charges of Socialism and Marxism on the other. You fail to see you are only reaping what you have sown.

    But you cant see that can you? And the reason is that deep inside the Republican party is about envy and anger and fear that no rational discussion can change.

    VietnamEraVet (543dfe)

  149. I think the only time I voted to ban somebody here was when some whacko threatened Patterico about three years ago. But I think, now, pinhead2008 should, at the very least, be put in moderation. This was an excellent post by Karl and it did not deserve to be dirtied this way.

    nk (502275)

  150. Stupid little swine. You stink! Idiot.

    That the best you got, you little parasite? Put down the watered-down Blue Magic knockoff, get out of the public library, and go change in your cardboard box in the alley. Your pimp is going to be angry if you don’t start bringing in some income for him tonight. If you’re lucky, he’ll give you enough to buy a Frostee. You’ve got the talent to pull it off!

    Another Chris (a3bb8f)

  151. VeV is out of rehab again!

    AD - RtR/OS (6b51ea)

  152. Comment by Andrew — 3/4/2009 @ 6:22 pm

    Michael Steele… still fewer mistakes than Obama. Can we joke about Obama hiring tax evaders without vetting? No? Walking through windows instead of doors? Okay, then what? Ben Stein is cracking some funny jokes about Michelle. She does sort of dwarf her little man.

    Vermont Neighbor (229b93)

  153. You have engaged in senseless wars, you have disgraced the flag and attacked the Constitution.

    Iraq is obviously debatable, but what other war(s) are you referring to? And don’t lecture me for disgracing the flag and attacking the Constitution when I spent four years defending it from 2003-2007. Just because you’re a fellow vet doesn’t mean I won’t tell you to go pound sand.

    And what is the result of the massive deregulation off the banking industry you so passionately fought for?

    You mean the government telling banks “Don’t worry about any bad loans, Fannie and Freddie will cover it”? THAT kind of deregulation?

    And the reason is that deep inside the Republican party is about envy and anger and fear that no rational discussion can change.

    Anybody who bitches about tax cuts for “the rich” and follows the siren song of Howard “I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for” Dean is in no position to be lecturing anyone about envy, anger, or fear.

    Another Chris (a3bb8f)

  154. Comment by Andrew — 3/4/2009 @ 6:22 pm
    LOL!

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  155. And to complete the Troll circle jerk, Andy posts a site that’s written in the vernacular of a 2nd grader – at least we know how old you are, Andyyyyy.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  156. Comment by Andrew — 3/4/2009 @ 6:22 pm

    Next week, I’m Sorry will feature a video of Junior as he flips his statement that Rush is the head of the party… which was a flip on his previous promise to bring the country together… which was a flip from his previous beliefs as heard live in Reverand Jeremiah Wright’s Sunday hate-fests… which was another flip from… hey Emporer, you keeping up?

    Vermont Neighbor (229b93)

  157. Comment by Another Chris — 3/4/2009 @ 6:32 pm
    Spoken like a true bitch. Spot on.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  158. Spoken like a true bitch. Spot on.

    Looks like your $10 tricks aren’t covering the line. Work harder, your fellow welfare queens are depending on you.

    Another Chris (a3bb8f)

  159. Some funny bumper stickers coming out.

    Are You Paying My Mortgage ?
    and
    Union Bosses and Welfare Queens for Obama.

    Vermont Neighbor (229b93)

  160. Hey Patterico? Could you maybe suggest some Paxil for #156? This is getting out of hand.

    Emperor7—this is not your house. If your antics are fine with Patterico, great. But now your language is amping up to something beyond simple immaturity.

    And for someone who tells another person to “grow up” you might consider (forgive the pun) a sense of moderation.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  161. Once again, VietEraVet, every line you write is false. You bring up the same old long debunked horsemanure of the Democrats.

    Democrats were just as involved in the question of regulation of the banking industry – it was not a GOP project – and hardly the core of the current credit crisis fueled recession.

    As for “bankrupting” the nation, Obama will have more deficit spending in months than Bush had in years.

    But this is typical of your vapid comments.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  162. Honestly, SPQR, I think that the “broken windows = more vandalism” principle applies to blogs.

    It seems like one TdJ attracts other TdJs (when they aren’t sockpuppets of one another). Soon you have a infestation.

    But what to do? Every blog has this issue with which to deal, and there are no perfect solutions.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  163. Probably, Eric, but VEV is unique in that he repeats the same long debunked garbage with each and every appearance.

    Not a fast learner.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  164. He saw the broken window, and got out the can of spray paint, methinks.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  165. Comment by Vermont Neighbor — 3/4/2009 @ 6:56 pm
    You need to get your facts straight. Steele has been the flip-flopper on Rush. First he says he is harmful and ugly. And next he says he is sorry for offending the great one. Joining the long list of Reps who line up to kiss Rush’s big ass.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  166. The quality of comments here seems to be disintegrating at a rapid rate these days. It’s discouraging as I am deeply interested in the actual posts, ‘hearing’ other commeter’s well thought-out views while simultaneously expanding my own. This is not my blog and I am but a lowly some-time commenter but I hate to see it devolve into verbal slapfests. It’s a continual distraction from actual discourse and debate.

    Dana (137151)

  167. Emperor7—this is not your house. If your antics are fine with Patterico, great. But now your language is amping up to something beyond simple immaturity.

    Believe me, Eric, this is the only time I plan on engaging that little twerp like this, because it honestly does nothing but degrade Patterico’s site. This is a good blog with good posts that can provide plenty of honest discussion regardless of political stripe.

    At some point, the posters on this board need to realize (if they haven’t already or if tonight’s little exchange hasn’t driven that home) that posters like Emperor and Hax are NOT interested in honest debate. They’ve used the same Alinskyite tactics time after time because they have no understanding of what is actually going on and their view of events is colored solely by who is in power at the time, and childishly consider those who don’t think the same as them to be the enemy. I have no problem treating them with the same utter disdain that they hold for us, because I know that people like them have been destroying nations for milennia. But that doesn’t mean I have to perpetuate it in Pat’s house more than this one time.

    Hopefully tonight will be a good example of why the trolls on here should not be acknowledged.

    Another Chris (a3bb8f)

  168. Comment by Eric Blair — 3/4/2009 @ 7:05 pm
    Now you have graduated into being a hypocrite, Eric. Read through the thread; every bad language I have used has been in response to every stupid and offensive comment made by a commenter. But you must continue to stand up for your choir members. I can understand that.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  169. You are correct, Dana, but be prepared for people who fling juvenile language around to tell you to “grow up.”

    In the final analysis, it’s not your blog nor mine. But I will agree with you that the atmosphere has become very unpleasant recently.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  170. Emperor7, using the “he did it first” strategy is beneath you. It’s not impressive in a teenager, and it does not impress now.

    You should show you are better than that, if you feel wronged.

    But you are lashing out, even at people who are not insulting you.

    I suspect that you believe, as do others who are correctly called trolls around here, that this is somehow a fun game.

    Again, not my website.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  171. Comment by Another Chris — 3/4/2009 @ 7:18 pm

    Oh sharrap bitch!

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  172. Another Chris, I share your frustration.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  173. Cathy Seipe’s blog was wrecked by trolls after she died. I’ve seen them ruin a good usenet site that I used to frequent before blogs. This is Patrick’s blog but it is getting out of hand. I would encourage the other commenters to avoid responding because the trolls are only interested in proof that they are alive and important by getting others to respond. If they don’t get a response, they will become more outrageous. I see no sign of seriousness with them. A couple seemed to be serious but have deteriorated recently. That seriousness, if it ever existed, is no longer the case. Please don’t feed trolls. Even this blog can be ruined by them.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  174. But you are lashing out, even at people who are not insulting you.
    Comment by Eric Blair — 3/4/2009 @ 7:27 pm

    I would be the first to apologize once you can point out who that commenter is. You know, the one you said I insulted who never insulted me first. I dare you.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  175. Like me, for example. But I am not paying attention to Dr. K.’s very good advice.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  176. Oh sharrap bitch!

    Yet another pedestrian insult along with subliterate slang from Firecrotch7.

    Be more funny.

    Another Chris (a3bb8f)

  177. Comment by Eric Blair — 3/4/2009 @ 7:30 pm

    I’m not a big fan of Glenn Reynolds (one can only take so much nanotechnology posts and fey one-word comments) but I think he’s got it right not allowing comments on his site. Can you imagine the carnage if it was open to “dialogue”?

    Registration might be the best thing at this point, but as you said, not my blog.

    Another Chris (a3bb8f)

  178. It’s interesting to read Professor Reynolds’ website. He doesn’t allow comments. His wife, “Dr. Helen” also has a blog. She does allow comments.

    Guess who has to deal with trolls?

    Again, there is no good solution. I know that I have enjoyed chatting with many posters here. But there have been some very disturbing events I have seen, too.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  179. Another Chris: a couple of years ago, Dr. Helen had a problem with one commenter who got out of hand frequently, and seemed to delight in insulting and stirring people up.

    She finally created “Dr. Helen’s Playpen,” where she urged such posters to congregate and have at it.

    But strangely, they weren’t happy there. They would much rather destroy things for other people. And then, in a display of faux-bravery/macho, insist that demanding civility was (i) a form of censorship or (ii) for “wimps.”

    Again, there is no good solution.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  180. You don’t think this comment of yours didnt need responding to?
    I honestly thought better of you. It’s sad when you display the worst that others have written about you. Your post is another example.

    Comment by Eric Blair — 3/4/2009 @ 5:08 pm
    Stop taking sides ok? I like you, Eric.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  181. I’m not going to argue with you any further. You are behaving in a very immature fashion. And more to the point, you are damaging things for other people who don’t care to fight with you.

    And that should matter to you. After all, you have your own blog. You should fight there, if you can get the traffic…instead of potentially damaging the kind of thing that Patterico provides.

    Dana’s point is very, very relevant.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  182. Lovey, you have guaranteed to any true Christian that you are not one by your attitude and profanity. And it didn’t take me to do it.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  183. Shunning is the best medicine for viral, blog infections.

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  184. I think some of the answer is in the handling of the Gordon Brown presser .. limited questions, especially given there was no teleprompter.

    If it weren’t for the fact that Obama has acted this way during and since the campaign, one might be suspect that we were dealing with a President “Dave by way he acts and is protected by his staff.

    The Limbaugh thing is a further attempt to take down any and all centers of political influence before the “Great Impostor” is exposed as having “no clothes.”

    Neo (cba5df)

  185. Neither my wife no I have viewed Limbaugh prior to his appearance at CPAC. He was superb, and Stalinobama and the slumguleans who support him have completely missed Rush’s point. It’s too bad that liberals never figured out why they have been viewed with so much contempt after the failure of the Great Society spend-a-thon.

    Mescalero (3c420c)

  186. Think “Trojan Horse”

    Neo (cba5df)

  187. Vietnam era vet said:

    I notice the same old die hards here year after year spouting the same old ignorant remarks. Some never learn.

    Bottom line is that radical conservatives listened to Rush and had their chance. So tell us, what good did your tax cuts for the rich of three years ago do? You know, the ones that were supposed to bring such prosperity? Where are your jobs and what is your economic future now?

    Where are those WMDs you sent our soldiers to fight and die for? and remember how you questioned the patriotism of anyone that urged caution?

    And what is the result of the massive deregulation off the banking industry you so passionately fought for?

    We tried to warn you years ago on this very blog but you didnt want to listen. So you rushed ahead and what is the result..

    You have bankrupted the nation. You have engaged in senseless wars, you have disgraced the flag and attacked the Constitution. But still you continue spouting high sounding platitudes on one hand and laughable charges of Socialism and Marxism on the other. You fail to see you are only reaping what you have sown.

    But you cant see that can you? And the reason is that deep inside the Republican party is about envy and anger and fear that no rational discussion can change.

    Well, other than the insults, he seems to be trying to make some points.

    What did the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq accomplish? I have a few answers, but I understand where you’re coming from. No one likes to see the best and brightest of the nation killed and maimed. No one likes to see 3,000 people killed in office buildings. And, yes, of course, 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq. I know the talking points.

    I’m also well aware that the people who question President Obama’s current course are also considered “unpatriotic.” So, patriotism is only conferred if you support the current office holder?

    Actually, I don’t think I’ve bankrupted the nation, but I’m doing a pretty good job of bankrupting myself. Nonetheless, policies of the government contributed to our current situation — spanning several administrations and congresses — as did the miscalculations of the executives in charge of private enterprises. Established bureaucracy also had a hand.

    Trying to blame one party or political element for our current problems is a losing game. Look at the Congressional committee leaders currently overseeing these matters. Nothing is as simple as pointing a finger at the right or left. Ultimately, they’re not that far apart.

    And how did I disgrace the flag and the Constitution? I read this a lot, but seriously, what rights have been diminished. If you know someone who has been treated in a way that violates the Constitution by the federal government, please, seriously, please let me know. Give me cites and information. I’ll stand behind you all the way.

    As far as the anger goes, well, I guess the Republican Party is angry to an extent. I mean, they’ve pretty much been owned in the last few elections.

    However, I have to say, if the right is so angry, then why are you so angry? It seems to me you should be extremely happy right now: If you agree with President Obama’s policies, and I assume you do, then things will soon be better and the world will be a better place

    Ag80 (3e2c59)

  188. Comment by John Hitchcock — 3/4/2009 @ 8:12 pm
    Pray for me, John.

    Emperor7 who now sees the light. (1b037c)

  189. I stop by to read interesting people. Too bad the trolls cause the discussion to degenerate.

    I’m not sure why they do that. They don’t really want to talk about the issues.

    It’s more like performance theatre, I guess.

    steve miller (c76b20)

  190. Comment by Emperor7 who now sees the light. — 3/4/2009 @ 8:40 pm
    Passive/Agressive

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  191. steve, I don’t know why TdJs disrupt websites. All I can think of is the old joke from Jubal Harshaw in Heinlein’s “Stranger in a Strange Land.”

    Dr. Harshaw had written a poem, and one of his secretaries notices that the rhyming scheme is off a little. When she points this out to Dr. Harshaw, he says (this is what my memory tells me):


    You have to give editors something to do. After they pee in it, they like the taste better.

    So folks who like to disrupt a thread, and insult willy nilly, and then claim innocence or split definitional hairs and so forth….well, it is a game.

    The sad part, it is a game they play on someone else’s website, not their own.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  192. emperor said:

    Comment by John Hitchcock — 3/4/2009 @ 8:12 pm
    Pray for me, John.

    I can’t speak for John Hitchcock, but I’ll pray for you. But, it would help if I knew why.

    Is something wrong? Are you sick? Do you need help? And who should I pray to?

    Ag80 (3e2c59)

  193. Lovey – May you find heaven soon.

    Barack Obama (5d22c0)

  194. Well Eric, I think they get some kind of “kick” by being disruptive. “Hey, I stopped an intelligent conversation in its tracks.”

    Sad that that’s their goal and sum of their lives.

    steve miller (c76b20)

  195. Hey Steve #198:

    Again, Helen Smith tried to create what I thought of as “Thunderdome” for folks who liked to battle. Strangely, the folks who liked to play word games and insult others did not choose to do so there.

    They preferred to disrupt others, for reasons that remain mysterious to me.

    At the same time…not my blog.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  196. I think the trolls like the attention and not really the intellectual argument.

    Which is too bad, because it’s not helpful to have unopposed argument.

    But I don’t enjoy stupid arguers or people who are deliberately obtuse.

    Some of them enjoy simply being destructive of rational thought, which speaks to me that they don’t have the courage to actually argue.

    steve miller (c76b20)

  197. I’m not arguing that the two are morally equivalent. I’m against both. But I’ll abide by the laws we have on our books.

    Using faith based arguments in a political fashion the way John H. does, and excluding Capitol Punishment is hypocritical to say the least.

    Actually, no, douchenozzle. If you’re going to throw “Thou shalt not kill” around, you’d better understand what’s in the rest of the Mosaic Law. The Bible called for execution of murderers, among other criminals.

    So, it’s not at all hypocritical to use faith based arguments against abortion but excluding capital punishment. What is hypocritical is to lecture someone on the Bible without understanding its contents.

    Ahh yes the convenient interpretation of Murder and Kill.

    Save it Steverino, I’ve heard it all before.

    It’s Crap.

    No, it’s not

    Using your logic, the Bible would proscribe against killing in self defense.

    Got anything to counter? It’s time to put up or shut up, you ignoramus.

    Steverino (b12c49)

  198. More than 200 comments, and not a single reference to the headline? I hope we haven’t become so consumed with anger and vitriol that we lose our sense of humor and fail to recognize a reference to one of the funniest SNL sketches ever.

    Now, if you can work Bass-o-matic or “save the liver” into a headline, you’re a real pro.

    PA Fan (08ce8f)

  199. Rush is a hateful ignorant mud throwing bastard. Who else would equate the Abu Greb tortures to a college hazing? ” just havin’ some fun” as people, who may or may not have been terrorists, were beaten to death, electric wires connected to their genitals, intimated by dogs and forced to masturbate by an army of occupation? If the Russians had done this you would be outraged as was the entire world.

    Colin Powell gave a a thoughtful and moving explanation as to why he endorsed Obama but all Rush could think is that its just a case of black brothers sticking together. Guess he cant imagine a black man being intelligent or honest or putting race aside.

    His recent speech in from of the kool aide drinkers who love him was nothing more than a masterful example of the straw man technique of propaganda. Misstate your opponents position.. then knock it down.

    So take your marching orders from a drug addict, womanizing, hate spewing,divisive, pro war draft dodger former disc jockey who now leads the GOP and cant even tell what is in the Preamble the Constitution Hey but as long as he helps keep gays from getting married, helps the richest getting richer, talks a good game about “core values and principles” and attacks those anti American anti God Libs and spineless moderates he will be the darling of the GOP as we now hand over leadership of the world to the Chinese.

    VietnamEraVet (543dfe)

  200. Well, at least Limbaugh is aware of grammar and decent prose style.

    Still and all, please have a day as happy as the one Rush Limbaugh manages every day. And remember that all your spleen and fury doesn’t touch him at all, and cannot make you a more fulfilled person.

    Just sayin’.

    Oh, and when you accuse others of using the “straw man technique of propaganda,” you might look at your own posts. I mean, given your own personal definition.

    Again, have a nice day.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  201. VEV never fails to bring the asshattery.

    JD (771d22)

  202. Do you notice how it starts out well constructed and then veers off? Seriously, why the anger? Dislike a person or policy all you wish, to be sure. But that spittle flecking fury can’t be healthy, and I mean that very seriously.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  203. For those who think the Bible says “Thou Shalt Not Murder” instead of “Thou Shall Not Kill,” they need to show by their credentials and study that they understand Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Latin, and what basis they hold to translate a Hebrew word for “slay” as the modern word “murder.”

    steve miller (c76b20)

  204. Those who think the Bible says “Thou shalt not kill” instead of “Thou shalt not murder” — based on an English translation of original text — need to show by their credentials and study that they understand Greek, Hebrew, Aramaic, and Latin.

    If you’re going to claim that one side must show credentials for its belief, you’ll to hold the other side to the same standard.

    I’ve already posted a link which shows a very thorough analysis of the passage in question. Can you show a link that disputes it?

    Steverino (69d941)

  205. VEV, evidently all you are good for is repeating slanders.

    SPQR (72771e)

  206. “electric wires connected to their genitals, intimated by dogs and forced to masturbate by an army of occupation?”

    VEV – Some people pay good money for that kind of stuff. Ever been to San Francisco?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  207. “Colin Powell gave a a thoughtful and moving explanation as to why he endorsed Obama”

    VEV – Why do you think Obama’s policies will succeed?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  208. As VeV becomes more and more hysterical in his comments, it is a strong indicator that his next re-hab commitment is close.

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