Patterico's Pontifications

3/1/2009

Things Iran Has

Filed under: General,Obama — Patterico @ 3:28 pm



79 Responses to “Things Iran Has”

  1. Okay I think Iran is a threat, but honestly, if they have a nuke, they really don’t need the blueprints.

    CAL (9dbc16)

  2. The blueprints can help to identify weaknesses, I presume.

    But nothing to see here. Move along. Bush lied. Halliburton.

    steve miller (4bda12)

  3. And America elected an empty suit and his blithering idiot sidekick to the highest offices in the land.

    Unbelievable.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  4. The next few years will be extra dangerous because Israel will feel alone and that can make them desperate. The new intelligence czar is a Nazi. Even the WaPo thinks so. Well, not a Nazi but here’s what Chait (no right winger) says:

    Stephen Walt and John Mearsheimer, both staunch realists, wrote “The Israel Lobby,” a hyperbolic attack on Zionist political influence. The central error of their thesis was that, since America’s alliance with Israel does not advance American interests, it could be explained only by sinister lobbying influence. They seemed unable to grasp even the possibility that Americans, rightly or wrongly, have an affinity for a fellow democracy surrounded by hostile dictatorships. Consider, perhaps, if eunuchs tried to explain the way teenage boys act around girls.

    Freeman praised “The Israel Lobby” while indulging in its characteristic paranoia. “No one else in the United States has dared to publish this article,” he told a Saudi news service in 2006, “given the political penalties that the lobby imposes on those who criticize it.” In fact, the article was printed as a book the next year by Farrar, Straus and Giroux in New York.

    He’s not really a Nazi, he just likes them.

    “[T]he truly unforgivable mistake of the Chinese authorities was the failure to intervene on a timely basis to nip the demonstrations in the bud, rather than — as would have been both wise and efficacious — to intervene with force when all other measures had failed to restore domestic tranquility to Beijing and other major urban centers in China. In this optic, the Politburo’s response to the mob scene at ‘Tian’anmen’ stands as a monument to overly cautious behavior on the part of the leadership, not as an example of rash action. . . .

    Hitler famously advised Churchill to shoot Ghandi and couldn’t understand why the British would tolerate such a fellow.

    Neither can Obama’s new director of intelligence.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  5. #4 Mike K:

    Neither can Obama’s new director of intelligence.

    And the Left has been complaining about possible extra-Constitutional behavior on the part of the Bush administration?

    When their poster child has his own Lavrentiy Pavlovich Beria waiting in the wings?

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  6. steve miller – The blueprints can help to identify weaknesses, I presume.

    See SPQR #3 – the weaknesses are the occupants, not the helicopter itself.

    Apogee (f4320c)

  7. Well, yeah, that’s a given.

    I don’t think the current Boy President really grasps that there are nation-states out there that want to see America destroyed.

    Instead, he’s roaming the purple plains of America looking for the superrich who are underpaying “their fair share.”

    steve miller (4bda12)

  8. Hitler famously advised Churchill to shoot Ghandi and couldn’t understand why the British would tolerate such a fellow.

    While I admire Ghandi, he also advised the Western World to basically give up against the Nazis and the Japanese, and to just accept them as their new world overlords. Proving once again that peaceful protest only works against democracies, not tyrannies.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  9. BTW, McCain was absolutely spot – on with his quip about “Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran” during the campaign. The only thing the mad mullahs respect is the possibility of complete obliteration, and the will to do it. Reagan also knew this intimately, as with his joke about outlawing the USSR and to begin bombing in 5 minutes, which he portrayed as a casual slip -up without realizing that his mic was on. I don’t think so.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  10. Iran also has no homosexuals according to Imadamnutjob during the Q&A at one of his speeches on his last trip to the U.S. What are the odds of that? You think they are getting rid of them or something? The Code Pink girls said it was a nice country and everything and Annette Benneing is there with some other Hollywood bints right now. They wouldn’t lie would they?

    daleyrocks (6dc4cc)

  11. “The blueprints for Obama’s helicopter.”

    I hope tiversa is willing to sell their services to protect us.

    imdw (3c48c6)

  12. I wouldn’t worry about Iran with 50 nuc’s, the democrats will destroy this country long before Iran has the chance. When Barack Hussein ‘Magabe’ Obama gets done there will be nothing worth bombing. He may even imitate another of his hero’s and start killing and eating people.

    Scrapiron (4e0dda)

  13. I would expect the Iranians to keep much of their key atomic infrastructure underground, shielded from bombing.
    Perhaps the U.S. has weapons that could take it out with a direct hit, perhaps not.
    It’s being built with Russian technology, so we should be taking it up with them first and taking a soft power approach to helping Iran’s moderates gradually take power.

    We’ve seen the chaos macho insecurity dreaming brought to Iraq and the huge setback in the war on terror that brought. The very last thing we need is a repeat of that in Iran.

    Hax Vobiscum (23258e)

  14. Is there any phrase more stupid than “soft power approach” ?

    I don’t think so. The very phrase is stupid in and of itself. But more importantly, it is a completely reliable indicator that the user of the phrase is going to dishonestly contend that the George W. Bush administration never attempted to use anything except military operations. A contention that is believable only by the ignorant or the mendacious.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  15. The next few years will be extra dangerous because Israel will feel alone and that can make them desperate. The new intelligence czar is a Nazi.

    I shouldn’t be surprised that a person who would embrace characters like Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers would select someone of similar sound mind and sound judgment to analyze intelligence issues, referring to Charles Freeman (and in light of Mr. Goddamn America’s buddy now occupying the White House, perhaps that actually should be written “intelligence”).

    But I guess we should be relieved that the guy in the Oval Office at least — so far — hasn’t sorted through the trashbin when looking for types similar to Freeman to run the CIA or US military, etc. But the Obama years are still in their infancy. So who knows what may happen in the future?

    docstalk.blogspot.com

    After 9/11, Chas Freeman sought to do business with the Bin Laden group and responded to critics by saying that Bin Laden was still “a very honored name in the kingdom [of Saudi Arabia]”. He’s called Hezbollah a legitimate outgrowth of Lebanese nationalism and denied that it was an Iranian puppet.

    He bragged about his million dollar donation from the Saudi King to fund his organization, which he used to publish Walt and Mearsheimer’s article attacking the “Jewish lobby”. These days he’s pushing for a “One State Solution” in Israel, code for the destruction of Israel.

    …Chas Freeman is on the International Advisory Board of China National Offshore Oil Co. CNOOC is a State owned enterprise, controlled by the Chinese government. As such Chas Freeman has openly worked for both Saudi Arabia and the People’s Republic of China.

    CNOOC did business pretty much the way you expect a Chinese state owned company to do business, with large scale pollution, intimidation and evictions….This closeness between Chas Freeman and the People’s Republic of China has translated into Freeman ruthlessly doing their propaganda for them. This puts into perspective the Weekly Standard’s revelation that Chas Freeman sent out a message saying that China did not go far enough in the Tiananmen Square Massacre.

    Here’s the view that Obama’s nominee to head the National Intelligence Council offered to Rolling Stone when asked what to do about the War in Iraq.

    Chas Freeman: The most efficient way to avoid mass killings is to help the Shiites win fast, consolidate their damn dictatorship and get the hell out. The level of anarchy and hatred and emotional disturbance is such that it’s very hard to imagine anything except a Saddam-style reign of terror succeeding in pacifying the place.

    Clear on that? The man who will be advising the White House on the world situation, favored setting up an Iranian backed dictatorship in Iraq, and then quickly withdrawing.

    Chas Freeman became the darling of the left wing by repeatedly attacking the US war in Iraq, including repeatedly ridiculing the claim that Saddam had weapons of Mass Destruction. However before the US invasion, Chas Freeman delivered a speech claiming that if we attacked Saddam, he would use weapons of mass destruction against us…while implying that 9/11 was justified because we had attacked Bin Laden’s homeland.

    Former U. S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Chas Freeman, in a recent speech, warned that the U.S. could expect an eye-for-an-eye response: “One lesson of September 11th that we need to recall more than any other is that if we attack someone else’s homeland in this day and age, we can expect that our own homeland will be attacked. We know that if we attack Saddam he will use weapons of mass destruction in whatever way he can. We don’t know, however, what preparations he’s made.”

    Mark (411533)

  16. While I admire Ghandi, he also advised the Western World to basically give up against the Nazis and the Japanese, and to just accept them as their new world overlords.

    He was no dummy, though. After allowing his wife to die rather than accepting western medicine to treat her, he himself had his appendix removed when he developed appendicitis.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  17. It needs to be remembered that having enough weapons-grade fissile material to build a bomb isn’t the same thing as actually having an atomic bomb. And when you are on Israel’s watch list, about the most dangerous thing you can have is one atomic bomb.

    What would Iran be able to do with one atomic bomb? It could take out one target, whether Tel Aviv or Washington, we don’t know, but even with one, the Iranians have to be able to deliver it to a target to be useful. Yet if they do use that one atomic bomb, once they build it, that’s it, they’re done, because anyone who’d be on their potential target list has enough nuclear weapons to turn the whole country into a radioactive ash heap.

    In a strange way, this is like the image that Saddam Hussein tried to present. Naturally, he never confirmed that he had WMD, he just let people think that he did, to the extent that he let the sanctions continue when he could have ended them by opening up for inspection to prove that the last of the old WMD were gone. He wanted people to suspect that he had banned weapons, I suppose because that made him seem more powerful than he actually was. For some reason, that turned out rather badly for him.

    The realistic Dana (556f76)

  18. […] has been noted, by Patterico among others, that Iran probably has enough weapons-grade uranium to build an atomic […]

    Common Sense Political Thought » Blog Archive » Will Iran do the stupid thing? (73d96f)

  19. It’s silly and dangerous to pretend that we can prevent countries like Iran from getting nuclear weapons.

    They will gain the means to build these weapons and worse, one way or another, sooner or later. The nuclear genie will never crawl back into the bottle. If anything, the weapons are going to spread further and faster as time goes on.

    Risibly macho-insecure threats to solve the problem by sending a bomber only confirm how emotionally driven some U.S. and Israeli militarists have become.

    It has become plain the China and Russia are now pitted against U.S. non-proliferation efforts and, in Russia’s case, openly support helping Iran get nuclear technology.

    The first step should be to gain the support of Russia and China for maintaining international controls that can limit Iran’s access to weapons-specific technology on a multi-lateral basis and on the basis of positive incentives for Iran.

    Whatever disagreements we may have with Iran’s government, we have no rational choice but to acknowledge its sovereignty and, therefore, its right to pursue nuclear technology. If we have no incentives for Iran to focus on non-weapons nuclear development, we have no realistic leverage over their policy.

    Pakistan, a far more unstable nation with a history of begetting terrorists ready to attack the U.S., has a very well-established nuclear arsenal. If we can deal with that risk in a realistic way that recognizes the blunt limits of military aggression, we can surely do the same for Iran.

    Hax Vobiscum (23258e)

  20. It is ironic to find even more articles addressing what some consider a far more serious issue re Iran than that that of having enough fissile material to build a nuke: Iran has been greatly insulted and offended by Hollywood and is demanding an apology for misrepresentation of Iranians via films, The Wrestler and 300. Thankfully, Annette Benning is there to save the day, otherwise with all that nuke capability, who knows…

    OSCAR-WINNING actress Annette Bening, who is in Iran as part of a Hollywood delegation, yesterday said she hoped their presence in the Islamic Republic could help to kick-start talks between arch-foes Washington and Tehran.

    “I hope that we can be a bridge to open a dialogue between the two countries,” said the actor, wearing a traditional black hijab and headscarf.

    Gad, I love the left.

    Dana (137151)

  21. well yeah, we have to be sensitive to what Iran thinks about Hollywood films.

    that’s the critical point.

    steve miller (4bda12)

  22. “The first step should be to gain the support of Russia and China for maintaining international controls that can limit Iran’s access to weapons-specific technology on a multi-lateral basis and on the basis of positive incentives for Iran.”

    Hax – Now that Obama is in power do you think Russia is more likely to cooperate than they were with Bush, especially since they already rolled over Obama regarding missiles in Eastern Europe and outmaneuvered him on supply lines to Afghanistan? I think you’re dreaming if you think he’ll be more successful in getting cooperation than Bush, cupcake. How do you say “pussy” in Russian?

    daleyrocks (6dc4cc)

  23. #22 daleyrocks:

    How do you say “pussy” in Russian?

    Ooo, oo, oo! I think I might know that one!

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  24. “We’ve seen the chaos macho insecurity dreaming brought to Iraq and the huge setback in the war on terror that brought.”

    Let’s see, the liberation of 25 million people from a homocidal and genocidal dictator who was a threat to the peace of the entire region.

    The election of a democratic government. Libya dropping it’s WMD development program. The Cedar Revolution in Lebanon until it was quashed by Syria and Iranian proxies.

    Killing of north of 20,000 radical islamists and the isolation of Al Qaeda.

    No further attacks on U.S. soil or U.S. targets outside Iraq or Afghanistan.

    Hax – What setbacks do you mean. Be specific if you can.

    daleyrocks (6dc4cc)

  25. You know, not even King Canute tried to hold back the tide twice.

    And yet some people continue to reach the small kernel of the troll’s mind.

    steve miller (4bda12)

  26. EW1 – I enjoy the risible talking points about the war on terror raised by Hax and his ilk. Laughter is the best medecine.

    daleyrocks (6dc4cc)

  27. emotionally driven some U.S. and Israeli militarists have become.

    Perhaps it’s far less an emotionally driven decision but rather a pragmatic and realistically driven one – as Netanyahu has made clear, Iran is a fanatical regime and to have those capabilities available does not render a sense of security.

    Dana (137151)

  28. #26 daleyrocks:

    Laughter is the best medecine.

    Oh, I agree…but I think I might really know that one! I think one of my EOD buds has it tattooed someplace…

    EW1(SG) (e27928)

  29. How do you say “pussy” in Russian?

    I think he’ll know this one, what with all that furious stroking of his pet ocelot.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  30. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/02/opinion/02cohen.html?_r=1
    For you idiots, who haven’t been to Iran and never will.
    From someone who has.

    The indignation stems from my recent column on Iranian Jews, which said that the 25,000-strong community worships in relative tranquillity; that Persian Jews have fared better than Arab Jews; that hostility toward Jews in Iran has on occasion led to trumped-up charges against them; and that those enamored of the “Mad Mullah” caricature of Iran regard any compromise with it as a rerun of Munich 1938.

    This last point found confirmation in outraged correspondence from several American Jews unable to resist some analogy between Iran and Nazi Germany. I was based in Berlin for three years; Germany’s confrontation with the Holocaust inhabited me. Let’s be clear: Iran’s Islamic Republic is no Third Reich redux. Nor is it a totalitarian state.

    Munich allowed Hitler’s annexation of the Sudetenland. Iran has not waged an expansionary war in more than two centuries.

    Totalitarian regimes require the complete subservience of the individual to the state and tolerate only one party to which all institutions are subordinated. Iran is an un-free society with a keen, intermittently brutal apparatus of repression, but it’s far from meeting these criteria. Significant margins of liberty, even democracy, exist. Anything but mad, the mullahs have proved malleable.

    Most of Iran’s population is under 30; it’s an Internet-connected generation. Access to satellite television is widespread. The BBC’s new Farsi service is all the rage.

    Abdullah Momeni, a student opponent of the regime, told me, “The Internet is very important to us; in fact, it is of infinite importance.” Iranians are not cut off, like Cubans or North Koreans.

    The June presidential election pitting the incumbent, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, against Mohammad Khatami (a former president who once spoke in a synagogue) will be a genuine contest as compared with the charades that pass for elections in many Arab states. No fire has burned the Majlis, or parliament, down.

    If you’re thinking trains-on-time Fascist efficiency, think again. Tehran’s new telecommunications tower took 20 years to build. I was told its restaurant would open “soon.” So, it is said, will the Bushehr nuclear power plant, a project in the works for a mere 30 years. A Persian Chernobyl is more likely than some Middle Eastern nuclear Armageddon, if that’s any comfort.

    For all the morality police inspecting whether women are wearing boots outside their pants (the latest no-no on the dress front) and the regime zealots of the Basiji militia, the air you breathe in Iran is not suffocating. Its streets at dusk hum with life — not a monochrome male-only form of it, or one inhabited by fear — but the vibrancy of a changing, highly educated society.

    This is the Iran of subtle shades that the country’s Jews inhabit. Life is more difficult for them than for Muslims, but to suggest they inhabit a totalitarian hell is self-serving nonsense.

    One Iranian exile, no lover of the Islamic Republic, wrote to me saying that my account of Iran’s Jews had brought “tears to my eyes” because “you are saying what many of us would like to hear.”

    Far from the cradle of Middle Eastern Islamist zealotry, she suggested, “Iran — the supposed enemy — is the one society that has gone through its extremist fervor and is coming out the other end. It is relatively stable and socially dynamic. As my father, who continues to live there, says, ‘It is the least undemocratic country in the region outside Israel.’ ”

    This notion of a “post-fervor” Iran is significant. The compromises being painfully fought out between Islam and democracy in Tehran are of seminal importance. They belie the notion of a fanatical power; they explain Jewish life.

    That does not mean fanaticism does not exist or that terrible crimes have not been committed, like the Iran-backed bombing of the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires 15 years ago.

    But the equating of Iran with terror today is simplistic. Hamas and Hezbollah have evolved into broad political movements widely seen as resisting an Israel over-ready to use crushing force. It is essential to think again about them, just as it is essential to toss out Iran caricatures.

    I return to this subject because behind the Jewish issue in Iran lies a critical one — the U.S. propensity to fixate on and demonize a country through a one-dimensional lens, with a sometimes disastrous chain of results.

    It’s worth recalling that hateful, ultranationalist rhetoric is no Iranian preserve. Avigdor Lieberman, Israel’s race-baiting anti-Arab firebrand, may find a place in a government led by Benjamin Netanyahu. He should not.

    Nor should racist demagoguery — wherever — prompt facile allusions to the murderous Nazi master of it.

    You want Nazis think Saudis
    http://angryarab.blogspot.com/search?q=Nazi+dagger

    P. Favor (b1153c)

  31. Have you been to Iran, P. Favor?

    Pablo (99243e)

  32. Another asshat, por favor, with a wall o’text of somebody else’s words. Why is it that the Left thinks going somewhere gives you some kind of moral authority? Does my having visited Tehran with my Iranian aunt, and 3 Iranian uncles, and 9 Iranian cousins give me some kind of bullshit moral authority?

    If you are going to post a wall o’text, how about having an original thought?

    JD (2d2bfc)

  33. “Far from the cradle of Middle Eastern Islamist zealotry, she suggested, “Iran — the supposed enemy — is the one society that has gone through its extremist fervor and is coming out the other end.”

    P. Favor – Face it buddy, you’re just a Kool Aid chugger.

    Why does the regime keep imprisoning and torturing students?

    Why does the regime keep executing gays?

    Why does the regime continue to support international terrorism and kill U.S. soldiers in Iraq?

    Why are you so intellectually weak that you believe this kind of pablum?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  34. Hamas and Hezbollah have evolved into broad political movements

    Broad political movements with rockets and mortars, and an unabashed willingness to fire them unprovoked.

    Funny how the author omits that.

    Steverino (a37dd0)

  35. For you idiots, who haven’t been to Iran and never will.

    As opposed to a drone that just cuts and pastes everything it’s ever posted here. Quite a feat – take a bow, asshat.

    Ever heard of Iran The Model, douchey? That’s a blog written by an Iranian citizen who’s been constantly threatened with imprisonment and death, and usually has to move every few weeks in order to escape detection. Try reading his work and then you can get back to us with your findings – ok, sweetheart?

    Dmac (49b16c)

  36. You want Nazis think Saudis

    yep^.

    Walter Duranty went to Russia and “idiots” like us never went there, as well. Duranty was a liar at best and this article is Duranty-esque, IMHO. Cohen may be right, but I want to see more evidence.

    quasimodo (edc74e)

  37. “You want Nazis think Saudis”

    You got your sunni, you got your shia.

    You say potato, I say potatoe.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  38. That cut and paste, chuck and duck style of P. Favor’s is reminiscent of sleepy/AF/blah.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  39. John Mearsheimer, unlike Jonathan Chait, has served this country in uniform. Ten years as an Air Force officer.

    Jonathan Chait is indeed no right winger, but he is Jewish. He betrays an attachment to that country that clouds his judgement.

    Those of you who don’t think this attachment exists in a large segment (though, I think, not the majority) of Jewish American society need to

    1) Read the Israeli Lobby (original paper here http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/research/wpaper.nsf/rwp/rwp06-011)
    2) Look at the whose White House Staff director, a man who left the US to serve in the Israeli military, during his prime military years, during a US war (namely Gulf War I)

    I’ll never understand how normally patriotic people can cut Israel — a country that gave us the Jonathan Pollard and USS Liberty incidents to name only two — such slack.

    horace (547ced)

  40. Rahm Emmanuel’ attachment to ‘that country’ is Israel of course, the Jewish State.

    horace (547ced)

  41. We have seen horace before. Ever the noxious one, he is.

    JD (2d2bfc)

  42. Horace, go back to Stormfront. Or Daily Kos.

    (Not that there’s much difference between the two.)

    Rob Crawford (04f50f)

  43. Horace is scared of some Joooooooooooos. BOO!

    JD (2d2bfc)

  44. Jonathan Chait is indeed no right winger, but he is Jewish. He betrays an attachment to that country that clouds his judgement.

    Speaking of Nazis….

    Por Favor, before you get all wet down there from reading Cohen’s column, you might consider this.

    Men and women both referred to the Jews’ representative in the Parliament as a flunky for the regime, and would not discuss problems or issues when he was around. Several would say one thing in the synagogue, but when we went to parks on took walks through the city, they would bend over backwards to make clear that they cannot talk freely in the synagogue since the walls have ears. The same sentiment was expressed at synagogues in Tehran and Shiraz. Cohen, however, talks to him as the authority and takes his word that he is not a quisling.

    The photos of the blood smeared dormitory rooms where students protestors once lived are no longer on the internet but you might consider a few facts that could be learned by reading Farsi blogs.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  45. I’ll never understand how normally patriotic people can cut Israel — a country that gave us the Jonathan Pollard and USS Liberty incidents to name only two — such slack.

    And I’ll never understand why a thread about Iran becomes a breeding ground for attacks on Israel.

    Besides, I think the whole hostages at the embassy thing trumps anything Israel has done.

    Steverino (a37dd0)

  46. “I’ll never understand how normally patriotic people can cut Israel — a country that gave us the Jonathan Pollard and USS Liberty incidents to name only two — such slack.”

    horace – I’ll trade you and even stick to the topic of the thread, mkay.

    I’ll never understand how normally patriotic people can cut Iran – a country that take over our embassy and held our people hostage for 444 days, is surreptitously killing our sldiers in Iraq, and is the world’s biggest supporter of international terrorism, to name only three issues – so much slack.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  47. It’s because they hate Teh Joooooos, daley.

    Scratch a progressive Leftist today, find an anti-semite.

    Eric Blair (8d54e0)

  48. And I’ll never understand why a thread about Iran becomes a breeding ground for attacks on Israel.

    Because the enemy of my enemy is my friend. When one impugns Iran, the only credible ‘check’ on evil Israel, her enemies rise to defend their ‘friend’ – Israel’s enemy.

    I’m not a huge fan of the wire services’ overzealous assertion of copyright online, and neither is our host. However, these cut-and-paste multiple continuous paragraph comments violate fair use and further no argument. If there is something we simply must read, kindly summarize it and throw in a link, maybe a paragraph or two, mmmkay?

    carlitos (f13ec4)

  49. The first mention of Israel on this thread was an attack on a well researched book co-authored by a veteran of the US Air Force.

    But you guys keep drinking that neo-con Kool-aid; I hope to see you all rushing to enlist when we invade Iran.

    horace (547ced)

  50. Nixon and Billy Graham on “Satanic jews.”
    http://books.google.com/books?id=1djBSRC_8HwC&pg=PA79&dq=you+don%27t+understand+Jesse+Helms+may+hate+jews+but+he+loves+israel#PPA79,M1

    And Jesse Helms too.

    And Sarah Palin
    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13098.html

    “Brickner also described terrorist attacks on Israelis as God’s “judgment of unbelief” of Jews who haven’t embraced Christianity.

    “Judgment is very real and we see it played out on the pages of the newspapers and on the television. It’s very real. When [Brickner’s son] was in Jerusalem he was there to witness some of that judgment, some of that conflict, when a Palestinian from East Jerusalem took a bulldozer and went plowing through a score of cars, killing numbers of people. Judgment — you can’t miss it.”

    If Ahmadinejad were a christian you’d be voting for him.
    Anyone here a supporter of the Lord’s Resistance Army?

    http://www.financialpost.com/scripts/story.html?id=1332883

    And did you know that most suicide bombers aren’t muslim?
    Ever hear of the Tamil Tigers?
    http://www.amazon.com/Dying-Win-Strategic-Suicide-Terrorism/dp/1400063175

    You nutjobs don’t know sh’t and don’t care.
    Stupidity forever!

    bored again christian (bff925)

  51. Not sure who is more noxious, horace or bored again christian.

    JD (2d2bfc)

  52. Horace – If I have already enlisted once, do I need to do it again? Who is calling for an invasion or Iran?

    JD (2d2bfc)

  53. I hope to see you all rushing to enlist when we invade Iran.

    Comment by horace

    I served in the late 50s ad early 60s. When did you serve ? I was even in the Air Force.

    And did you know that most suicide bombers aren’t muslim?
    Ever hear of the Tamil Tigers?

    Speaking of stupidity…

    MIke K (f89cb3)

  54. Is there a stupidity bot that trolls the internet for threads on Iran and Iraq so idiots can flock to them like moths to a flame or flies to dog shit ?

    I swear; these trolls are quick to appear.

    MIke K (8df289)

  55. horace, Mearsheimer? My what despicable bedfellows you choose for yourself.

    SPQR (72771e)

  56. Horace, bored again christian, and timmah are prolly great friends.

    JD (2d2bfc)

  57. “…Walt and Mearsheimer…”

    This article was so discreditied by everyone from the Center-Left to the Conservative-Right, that if not for their tenure in the bowels of academia, these two would have been laughed off of the planet.
    You have to wonder about people whose only defense comes from the KKK and Progressives, and now one of their staunch defenders and sponsors sits at the right-hand of power in the WH.
    Israel is fortunate that they have chosen new leadership, one with a back-bone.

    AD - RtR/OS (3120b9)

  58. Horace, bored again christian, and timmah are prolly great friends.

    Very good friends. NTTAWWT.

    Rob Crawford (04f50f)

  59. He betrays an attachment to that country that clouds his judgement.

    The Jooooos are coming Horace – run, Horace, runnnnn!

    Dmac (49b16c)

  60. JD#50: why do you think they are different people?

    Eric Blair (c8876d)

  61. Comment by bored again christian — 3/2/2009 @ 12:05 pm

    What is the point of any of that (assuming there is any)?

    Gerald A (adb85a)

  62. #50 – I have to pick?

    SPQR (72771e)

  63. Does La Raza influence immigration policy? Do Cubans influence our policy towards that island? Do Armenia-Americans influence debates in congress towards Armenia-Azerbaijan relations?

    Somehow people can answer yes, yes, yes to all these things and not get puerile comments. Somehow only Israel, Jews are special. Totally selfless, no ethnic attachments, AIPAC is a figment of the imagination of neo-Nazis.

    Well, you guys just keep drinking the Kool-aid. I hope you all ‘walk the walk’ and enlist when we go to war with Iran.

    BTW this branch of the discussion started by one Mike K, accusing the ‘intelligence czar’ of being a Nazi — way to break Goodwin’s law in four comments, Mike.

    horace (a846c8)

  64. Why do you hate Joooos horace?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  65. horace, no one made you choose to cite to the oiliest academic paper printed.

    SPQR (72771e)

  66. Horace, if it walks like a duck…

    OK, Saudis are not Nazis. They just act like them.

    Ever read the history of Ibn Saud ? What his deal with the Wahhabis was ?

    MIke K (8df289)

  67. Oops, repeating myself on the Kool-aid and enlisting thing (actually, didn’t think that comment posted as my connection dropped).

    Anyways, I served in the mid to late 1990s, including Bosnia which was the hottest thing going at the time. Want my NEC? Let’s just say some of those guys who died on the Liberty were in my same rate.

    As for Mearsheimer and Walt being ‘debunked’ , riiiiight.

    horace (a846c8)

  68. …being ‘debunked’…
    Here’s a start: (sorry about the paste-job, I can’t seem to get the link thingy to work with IE-8)

    http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/06/mearsheimer_and_walt_apologist.php

    AD - RtR/OS (3120b9)

  69. Oooooo, he threw in the USS Liberty too.

    Full blown case starting to be made clear.

    SPQR (72771e)

  70. horace – Were the Israelis responsible for 9/11 as well?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  71. No, Israel was not responsible for 9/11.

    Ah Jeffrey Goldberg, yet another American citizen who felt obliged to serve in the IDF. Please keep adding evidence to the Mearsheimer and Walt case.

    How many of you guys here would trust someone who served in the Mexican Betas being a major influence on our immigration policyvia his status as a ‘reporter’ ? If you would object, please explain why you don’t for Goldberg, Emanuel, Feith (don’t know if he did IDF, but did serve Likud), and doubtless more.

    horace (a846c8)

  72. Oh good grief.

    Take your anti-Semitic paranoia someplace else.

    steve miller (0fb51f)

  73. I would bet that horace likes Cynthia McKinney and Calypso Louis.

    JD (2d2bfc)

  74. Hey, don’t question Horace’s reputation – after all, he’s a veteran. A veteran of what, who knows?

    some of those guys who died on the Liberty were in my same rate.

    What, you mean to tell us you weren’t on the Cole as well? A shame.

    Dmac (49b16c)

  75. No answers, just ad hominem . That’s when its time to disengage.

    horace (547ced)

  76. Oh, now you’ve done it.
    horace is going to leave.
    Please horace, don’t go.
    If you stay, we promise to bury the hatchet (but don’t ask where).

    AD - RtR/OS (3120b9)

  77. That’s when its time to disengage.

    Are you going to the VFW, then? Remember to tell them about your friends on the Liberty, man!

    Dmac (49b16c)

  78. Ah Jeffrey Goldberg, yet another American citizen who felt obliged to serve in the IDF. Please keep adding evidence to the Mearsheimer and Walt case.

    For someone who complains about ad hominem, you seem to use the Genesis Fallacy a lot.

    Steverino (a37dd0)

  79. […] 18, 2009 in history and current events | Tags: Iran | by SEK The same conservatives who mere months ago applauded their candidate’s rendition of “Barbara Ann” are […]

    Conservatives would respect Obama more if he took a principled stand against a corrupt Iranian regime by doing its bidding. « The Edge of the American West (c1e831)


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