Trump fined $10,000 after violating gag order for second time in civil fraud case
[guest post by Dana]
Donald Trump was fined $10,000 by a New York judge for again violating a gag order barring the former president from making statements about a law clerk involved in the state’s $250 million civil fraud trial.
The fine issued Wednesday by Justice Arthur Engoron comes after Trump referred to the person sitting beside the judge as “partisan.” The Oct. 3 gag order had barred Trump from publicly discussing his law clerk after he posted her photograph on social media and spread a false rumor about her.
If you recall, Justice Engoron fined Trump $5,000 after learning that he had not taken down a post disparaging the judge’s law clerk.
Details:
On Wednesday, during a break in the trial over a lawsuit brought by New York Attorney General Letitia James over Trump’s business practices, Trump told reporters, “this judge is a very partisan judge, with a person who’s very partisan sitting alongside of him, perhaps even much more partisan than he is.”
Engoron, surmising that Trump was referring to his clerk, called the comments a “blatant” violation of the gag order. The judge imposed the fine after Trump briefly took the witness stand to take questions.
After a short conversation with Trump’s attorneys about the ruling, Justice Engoron cautioned:
“I’ve reconsidered, the ruling stands. Don’t do it again or it’ll be worse. “
–Dana
Surely he’ll pop off again. It is not in his disposition to be silent, especially when its in his own best interest.
Dana (932d71) — 10/25/2023 @ 12:16 pmLock him up!
Appalled (557249) — 10/25/2023 @ 12:34 pmSheesh…
His attorneys needs a stipulation that for every fine the courts levies, he owes them twice that amount for not listening to them.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/25/2023 @ 12:46 pmHe had taken down the post immediately when ordered. The copy of the post, archived on his campaign web site had not also been taken down.
I suppose the fine was only $10,000 because it wasn’t in writing, indicating no gteat thought went into it, and Trump used no name, and he just did it in passing..
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/25/2023 @ 1:13 pmIt’s entire possible that Trump is correct, of course. There are quire a few people who would like to see Trump hanging from the yardarm. The ACLU says that the judge is overreaching wrt criticism of himself of his staff.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/25/2023 @ 1:24 pmThe judge will accept criticism of himself, and of the government, but not of his staff.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/25/2023 @ 1:39 pmThe judge will accept criticism of himself, and of the government, but not of his staff.
What is the difference, from a 1st Amendment perspective?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/25/2023 @ 2:15 pmFrom a first amendment standpoint the judge looks like whiner and it also makes him look like he is protecting a biased law clerk.
steveg (6f8978) — 10/25/2023 @ 7:34 pmThere’s a side story to that law clerk. She’s looking to be elected municipal judge.
We had one like that in Chicago. Some politically-connected lady, already elected to a judgeship, waiting to be sworn in. She was clerking for another patronage judge who let her put on a robe and preside in court.
She was brought up on disciplinary charges which may have disqualified her from both the judgeship and the practice of law altogether. The story was too pettily sordid for me to follow any farther.
nk (d97a06) — 10/25/2023 @ 7:55 pmLatest body count 22 dead in Maine. AR-15 style assault gun. Republicans in congress so?
asset (9a0c8d) — 10/25/2023 @ 8:02 pmQuick! Time to pass national concealed carry reciprocity while the bodies are warm!
Randolph Carter (01effb) — 10/25/2023 @ 8:37 pmTrump can just shift to “I was criticizing the Judge for his choices. I think they show a lot about a Judge” “It isn’t about the individuals chosen, but of the person doing the choosing” Play the victim; “Why would someone choose to promote people who say hateful things about me if the Judge doesn’t agree with those statements?
steveg (6f8978) — 10/25/2023 @ 9:16 pmTrump can rake in another half million and the Judge can get a big book deal for a book no one reads, but everyone who puts it on the coffee table claims to have. Kudos all around
@10
Horrible tragedy.
Shooter was already a prohibited possessor.
Not sure why you bring in “Republicans in congress so?”…
whembly (5f7596) — 10/26/2023 @ 6:42 amNothing to see here…
The Biden family is the most perfect family ever.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/26/2023 @ 7:03 amFor traditionalists: During the Civil War, some Union troops added a verse with “hang Jeff Davis to a sour apple tree” to The Battle Hymn of the Republic”.
(I think at least the Loser should at least be spanked and sent to bed without supper.)
Jim Miller (808bdf) — 10/26/2023 @ 7:21 amShooter was already a prohibited possessor.
Link? He was a reservist and a firearms instructor.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 8:02 amBy definition, an “assault rifle” has a selector switch for burst or automatic fire. An AR-15 does not have that capability.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 8:04 amLink? He was a reservist and a firearms instructor.
Two weeks commitment to a mental health facility in the summer. Reportedly. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/lewiston-maine-shooting-robert-card-what-know-rcna122262
nk (d97a06) — 10/26/2023 @ 8:11 amTrump was questioned by the judge. He claimed that the person he attacked as partisan was witness Michael Cohen, The judge did not find himn credible.
The judge said he’d called his assistant partisan but MC always by name. Trump’s lawyers said he had much worse synonyms for MC.;;
Meanwhile MC was floundering. It seems like Trump never told him specifically to make up figures,
Sammy Finkelman (1f563c) — 10/26/2023 @ 8:11 am@16
It looked like he was involuntarily committed, and not only that made public threats to shooting up his base.
If true, you are a prohibited possessor at that point.
See federal law 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(4).
Lots of questions here…
Was there a protocol for followup?
Was he being currently treated?
whembly (5f7596) — 10/26/2023 @ 8:13 amI don’t know who coined this, and if anyone has the original, please do let me know.
I’m going from memory, so I’m paraphrasing.
Here’s how you start/end the gun-control debate:
If that answer is “no”, then the debate is over.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/26/2023 @ 8:24 amDid any database have him as a prohibited person? Did anyone serve him with a order to surrender his guns? For all we know he bought the guns yesterday.
Saying he should be prohibited due to his mental health issues (and I agree he should be) is meaningless if no action is taken to address it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 8:26 am@22
That’s the question, isn’t it?
whembly (5f7596) — 10/26/2023 @ 8:48 amIf falling trees are prohibited, but a tree falls in the forest anyway, was it really prohibited? Here we see the difference between the legal and actual world-views.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 8:52 am@24
You do make the case that gun control doesn’t work rather succinctly there…
whembly (5f7596) — 10/26/2023 @ 8:55 amLike clockwork:
President Biden urged Congress on Thursday to ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines, similar to the ones suspected of being used by a gunman in Maine Wednesday night at two shootings that left 18 people dead.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 9:23 amMore Trump Litigation News:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/26/2023 @ 9:24 amYou do make the case that gun control doesn’t work rather succinctly there…
How surveilly do you want your surveillance society? Because if the Chinese can do it with $12,500 GDP per capita, we can do it with $70,259 GDP per capita.
nk (d97a06) — 10/26/2023 @ 9:25 amAnd like clockwork it will be ignored.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/26/2023 @ 9:25 amNever mind that a federal judge has ruled that both bans on AR-15s and standard-capacity magazines are unconstitutional, despite President Biden’s Newspeak definitions.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 9:25 amWallace’s ruling Wednesday comes after Chief U.S. District Judge Philip A. Brimmer denied Trump’s request to move the Colorado ballot case to federal court.
And he did so on the merits — he agrees that there is cause for a state action.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 9:29 amHow surveilly do you want your surveillance society? Because if the Chinese can do it with $12,500 GDP per capita, we can do it with $70,259 GDP per capita.
Well, we could copy them on the income as well.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 9:30 amsteveg (6f8978) — 10/25/2023 @ 7:34 pm
The judge is afraid that in an “overheated atmosphere” there could be n attack by a lone wolf. As ajudge he has to take that kind if risk as a result of cases he hears but not his staff,
Sammy Finkelman (1f563c) — 10/26/2023 @ 9:36 amThey can ban any type of weapons, just so long as they ban them from the police as well.
Sammy Finkelman (1f563c) — 10/26/2023 @ 9:38 amThe federal judge did not decide based on the merits and that there is a cause for state action.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/26/2023 @ 9:45 amGubman still on the loose, possibly in Massachusetts. The toll is now given as 18 dead (not 22) and 13 injured. Gunman earlier this year spent two weeks in a mental institution or mental section of something. Had reported hearing voices, which means dreaming outside of sleep. Also something that sounds like OCD. Did he have a history of taking some kind of illegal drugs?
Sammy Finkelman (ee92a5) — 10/26/2023 @ 9:52 amWell, I guess it depends on what you call “the merits.”
Trump had attempted to remove this to federal court, claiming there was no reason for the state courts to be involved. Since the CO SoS had 1) the power under state law to make the 14th Amendment determination and 2) did not consent to it being removed, and 3) is not just a nominal party, the judge ruled on the merits of the removal case.
Other cases of this sort, such as the NM county commissioner case, were left in state court simply as a procedural issue (deal with it there before you come here).
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 9:59 amThe toll is now given as 18 dead (not 22) and 13 injured
Four were only “mostly dead.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 10:01 amCouy Griffin’s case remained in state court because the federal court determined that it lacked due to lack of subject matter jurisdiction and standing.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/26/2023 @ 10:44 amIn my opinion, a ruling on the “merits” would have said that the lawsuit could (or not) go forward for these constitutional or statutory reasons, not some three-part parsing of a very simple ruling about service.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/26/2023 @ 10:48 amCouy Griffin’s case remained in state court because the federal court determined that it lacked due to lack of subject matter jurisdiction and standing.
They sent it back because the issue he raised — denial of due process — had to wait until there was some state action to complain about.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 11:58 amRip,
The only case he had was whether it would or could be transferred to federal court. He was not asked to rule on anything else, and therefore did not. The “merits” of the case involved jurisdiction, and only that. The Couy Griffin case did not reach anything more than “no harm is shown” (yet).
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 12:01 pmWhen Couy Griffin later appealed to the NM Supreme Court, his case was dismissed for lack of timely filing.
Some reports neglect to mention the reason, implying that the NM ruled on the merits.
Not sure if that makes a federal appeal moot. It seems he, like Trump, has a crappy lawyer.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 12:07 pmSwitzerland and the Czech Republic have thriving gun cultures and generally allow citizens to own the same guns available in America. However, those citizens must pass in-depth training courses, rigorous tests, and expanded background checks before obtaining a firearm.
Rhetoric about mental health service or “good guys with guns” ain’t cutting it. Neither is describing an AR-15 as a “weapon of war” or using the oblique label “assault rifle”. Let’s acknowledge that mass shootings are hard to preempt. This shooter was a shooting instructor. His mental health problems emerged after he had weapons. There was no practical mechanism for him to have lost his access to his weapons.
AJ_Liberty (1295e6) — 10/26/2023 @ 12:12 pmCouy’s Supreme Court appeal lawyer is Peter Ticktin, a Trump stalwart and QAnon devotee. He’s had a number of problems lately with federal judges and the Florida bar.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 12:18 pm@44
Except, those countries do NOT have an enshrined 2nd Amendment right.
Furthermore, I don’t know about the Czech Republic, but Switzerland heavily regulate/tax ammo sales as well to the point that you might as well not have the guns.
And additionally, the both countries are not good analogue to the massive territories of the US.
No. That is *THE* discussion that needs to be had. The pro-gun control crowd refuses to acknowledge and discuss these topics.
Just mock those who pushes that narrative as it’s really insipid.
So… the law says he’s a prohibited possessor…
What additional law would’ve made this guy NOT commit murder?
This is what we have to face with this nation – in an OPEN society that’s heavily armed, your only real defense is to be armed/trained yourself.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/26/2023 @ 12:26 pm@44:
I don’t hold with unlicensed carry (open or concealed), but such a license should be based only on 1) a reasonable amount of training, and 2) a showing of good judgement, and 3) no evidence of potential danger to others.
I could accept some in-depth examination of 2 & 3, but I worry that it would become discriminatory like voter-literacy tests once were.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 12:26 pmUpcoming gun case: United States v. Rahimi (scroll down)
Rahimi seems like the kind of person who should not be allowed sharp objects, let along guns, but the case in question occurred before he acted out. Still, it cannot escape anyone that any gun rights he may have had should now be revoked for cause.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 12:32 pmI sense that the “historical tradition” test is not going to stand for long, as it is weak in several respects. It seems a bit of a kludge.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 12:34 pmAnd, now, back to The Donnie Show:
Jack Smith says Trump is ‘threatening’ witness, asks judge in DC case to reimpose gag order
nk (d97a06) — 10/26/2023 @ 1:01 pmnk (d97a06) — 10/26/2023 @ 1:01 pm
What was the threat?
A general gag because the former baby, sorry former potus is an absolute jerk doesn’t merit the gag.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/26/2023 @ 1:20 pmTrump is just trying to denigrate Meadows’ credibility, but he’s not sure he wants to – Meadows might not really say anything that implicates him in a crime – and the reason he can think that is that he never conspired with him in anything he thought was a crime.
He’s not trying to intimidate Meadows – he’s positioning himself to either cite Meadows in his support or to call him a liar and it seems like he’s leaning toward not disputing much if anything Meadows has to say. He thinks the odds are what Meadows has to say won’t really hurt him so why make Meadows angry at him?
(Trump is trying to influence opinion, but of his followers, not the future jury.)
Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9) — 10/26/2023 @ 1:39 pm“Connie, if you don’t listen to me, and marry this man, you’ll disappoint me.”
nk (d97a06) — 10/26/2023 @ 1:44 pm46. whembly (5f7596) — 10/26/2023 @ 12:26 pm
Maybe a prohibited purchaser but not a prohibited owner.
People pretend sometimes that “red flag” laws will do it.
If you study this case, you may find something that makes sense.
Maybe “green light” laws (insurance) which he might lose. Even if there is no procedure to take them away – people would be more cautious in giving the green light and would stay in touch if guessing wrong cost them money.
The NRA and others would say “Lock him up” for hearing voices.
Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9) — 10/26/2023 @ 1:47 pm@54 Sammy Finkelman (7a85f9) — 10/26/2023 @ 1:47 pm
No Sammy.
In federal law 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(4), once you’ve been mentally instituted you are defacto a prohibited possessor.
The crux of the debate is this: Now he’s a prohibited possessor… who makes sure he doesn’t have the firearm?
Is it a honor system that the crazy guy must give it up?
Is it a family member, who likely has power of attorney due to that dude being committed?
Is a judge, signing a warrant for the police to “clear” his house of firearms?
Furthermore, what medication was given to him during his treatment? And why did they believe it was safe enough for him to be released to the public?
And, again, I’ve mentioned this before, but most states (if not all) has a court pathway where you can petition the court to deem a person “unfit” and from there, seek to remove not only firearms, but anything that can hurt the person or public (ie, car, knife collection, etc…)
whembly (5f7596) — 10/26/2023 @ 2:01 pmTo be clear, here’s the deet:
whembly (5f7596) — 10/26/2023 @ 2:04 pmhttps://www.atf.gov/file/58791/download#:~:text=Any%20person%20who%20has%20been,possessing%20any%20firearm%20or%20ammunition.
If the judge keeps doubling the fines, they will get up to the “real money” level very quickly.
The Loser is acting like a little boy who refuses to accept a “timeout”.
Jim Miller (21d557) — 10/26/2023 @ 2:38 pm@ whembly (5f7596) — 10/26/2023 @ 2:04 pm
As someone who is very interested in mental health care, I wonder if he was “cured” after 2 weeks or that was all that his military or private insurances allowed.
Joe (141406) — 10/26/2023 @ 2:42 pmTrump seems to be baiting the judge, to show he isn’t impartial, and the judge seems to be taking the bait. Barring criticism of his court, outside of his court, touches on 1st Amendment protections.
I also wonder about more general orders. Trump is, ffs, a presidential candidate of a major party. The 1st Amendment was designed particularly to protect political speech from those that would throttle such.
As much as I would like Trump to fall, accidentally, into a vat of piranha, he has certain rights. As a presidential candidate they may be stronger than those of, say, a barfly. Even though they might sound similar.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 3:59 pm@Joe@58 My guess would be stabilized on medication probably. Of course that only works if he continues to take the medication.
Nic (896fdf) — 10/26/2023 @ 5:46 pmBad Timing:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/26/2023 @ 5:55 pm“One-third of the veterans we’re talking about in this category are diagnosed schizophrenics. And this amendment allows for every single one of them to have their gun rights restored.”
Except it doesn’t. It just means that their schizophrenia diagnosis has to be used rather than some wider proxy. “Cannot manage their financial affairs” also discriminates anyone who is not very good with math. Some may be senile or schizophrenic or otherwise impaired, but others might just be, well, stupid. Bureaucratic ease is not a good enough reason.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/26/2023 @ 9:17 pmMike johnson is a mega! Trump.
asset (74ba29) — 10/26/2023 @ 10:21 pm