Weekend Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
I’m traveling, so this will be brief.
Let’s go!
First news item
House Speaker, who made concession after concession, including a “motion to vacate,” is now under fire, as Republicans consider other candidates to fill the position.
Second news item
Yet again, a government shutdown is looming as Congress is at an impasse regarding the best way to keep the government funded.
Third news item
Sen. Diane Feinstein passes away at 90. RIP.
Fourth news item
“The only explanation for either folly is actually the explanation for both of them: they both flow out of the explicit and adamant demands of a calculating and narcissistic Donald Trump.
“Trump has repeatedly called for Republicans to shut down the government as the ‘last chance’ to stop the four ‘political prosecutions’ against him on 91 different criminal charges. He and his sycophants would gladly deny paychecks to more than a million service members and strip food assistance from millions of women and children on the off-chance Trump could delay having to face juries of his peers for dozens of alleged criminal offenses.
“Similarly, Trump is explicitly threatening his House followers to impeach President Biden because Trump was himself impeached. ‘They did it to us,’ he says. But that is not the constitutional standard, which refers to treason, bribery and other high crimes and misdemeanors…
“The GOP’s opposition to Trump’s impeachment was a tragedy. The GOP’s support for Biden’s impeachment is a farce.”
Fifth news item
Russia seems to confirm that the invasion of Ukraine wasn’t about NATO, it was about restoring Russian empire.
Sixth news item
In light of “more than half of House Republicans” vote against $300 million in aid to Ukraine:
A notable milestone. A shocking turn of history, the modern GOP.
Have a great weekend.
—Dana
Happy Friday!
Dana (aac8e9) — 9/29/2023 @ 8:25 amIn light of “more than half of House Republicans” vote against $300 million in aid to Ukraine:
That’s very disappointing. Here is the breakdown of votes. I’ll grant that there are some libertarian types, like my old schoolmate (I don’t really know him) Thomas Massie, who are principled libertarians and don’t believe that the U.S. should be participating even remotely in overseas conflicts, and I’m sure there are some others in the GOP caucus who would have voted no had Donald Trump been President and supported this bill. But of course there are a bunch of opportunistic Republicans who think that this is either sticking it to the Europeans or to the Biden Administration or whatever, and that is contemptible.
By the same token though, I am struck by the fact that Democrats voted 210-0 in support, with two Dems (Bush of Missouri and Peltola of Alaska) not voting. This means that Rosa DeLauro, Raul Grijalva, Primala Jayapal, Barbara Lee, our Adorably Onery & Clueless niece, Ilhan Omar, Ayanna Pressley, Jan Schakowsky, Adam Schiff, Rashida Tlaib, and the rest of the nasty partisans on that side all voted in favor. There is absolutely no way you will ever convince me that this group — and many other Dems — would have voted for this bill had Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley or any other Republican been President and expressed support for this. So our major problem is that we seem to have a bunch of jerkoffs in Congress whose votes on important issues are largely based upon political posturing. I have no respect for any of them.
JVW (66b3ed) — 9/29/2023 @ 8:54 amI’m shocked!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 9:13 amBiden is a strong President. He has control of his party.
McCarthy is a hangnail on Trump’s pinky, and Trump is a traitor who would sell out America for a second slice of chocolate cake.
nk (bb1548) — 9/29/2023 @ 9:22 amWhile Gov. Newsom has said he will appoint a black woman to replace Feinstein, he has also said his appointee will only be a caretaker for the next year.
An out of the box choice would be Michelle Obama, since there are no residency requirements for the job.
😉
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 9:31 amMore like for a second scoop of ice cream.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 9:35 am“Trump is explicitly threatening his House followers to impeach President Biden because Trump was himself impeached. ‘They did it to us,’ he says. But that is not the constitutional standard, which refers to treason, bribery and other high crimes and misdemeanors…”
Jamie Raskin, being the election denier of 2016, would be very invested in countering the “they did it to us” argument. But, they (and he in particular) did do it to us, and expected us to lay back and enjoy it. And years from now, when indictments against a democrat are used as a campaign strategy, we’ll hear more of this kind of nonsense from Raskin, and others who, yes absolutely, “did it to us.” The race to the bottom is on!
As for a “jury of his peers”, note that Judge Chutkan put immense thought into Trump’s motion to recuse herself for prejudicial comments she had made and, surprisingly (sarc), swatted it down. A change of venue request will get the same deep consideration. The case against Trump is so rock solid, according to those who are scared sh_tless to move it out of a district which voted more than 90% against Trump, and who stands most to lose from his “drain the swamp” intentions. An actual jury of his peers is exactly what his opponents fear the most.
As for Ukraine’s border security, at this (early) stage we’re already spending well over ten times what Trump requested for our own border security. The hand wringing about $10 billion for the wall and that “Mexico will pay for it” seems so quaint now. Eagle Pass and El Paso isn’t worth that much, but Ukraine? Over $100 billion? No problem! And Russia’s defeat will pay for it. Yes. If scrutinizing what we’re spending on Ukraine means one is a Putin stooge, then we can draw certain conclusions about those who question spending much less on a border wall. Fair enough. How about open borders lawlessness fan boys? Welcome to modern political discourse.
lloyd (d0e146) — 9/29/2023 @ 10:06 amTears 😢 for Tuberville soundtrack hardest hit.
BuDuh (88ee2b) — 9/29/2023 @ 10:16 amRegarding Russian empire, Dana, Putin has been planning conquest and conflict for awhile, and he’s been setting the propaganda table in both books and film, as seen in this thread. The plots in both mediums are disturbing.
And here’s another thread on Putinist propaganda for both domestic and foreign consumption.
It’s possible that a majority House Republicans fell for Putin’s lies, or they’re getting their marching orders from the leader of the GOP cult. Either way, it’s the antithesis of the Party of Reagan, and it’s completely revolting that my party went in this direction.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/29/2023 @ 10:23 amI’ll continue to note that Trump has made no demands to Putin that he end his unlawful unprovoked war-crime filled invasion.
Yes, Paul, however we were told by many on the right (and far left) that this invasion was a reaction to the provocations of NATO and/or NATO expansion. A lot of us knew better, so now that Russian channels are admitting it, lays waste to the false claims.
Dana (aac8e9) — 9/29/2023 @ 10:26 amA multi-front invasion by a sovereign power against an independent sovereign state isn’t a “border security” issue, it’s a blatant and criminal act of war. It’s a bogus comparison to our problems at the southern border.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/29/2023 @ 10:34 amThe motion to recuse failed to meet the legal standard to do so.
………
As far as a change of venue, there is long-standing precedent that would make that motion a loser too:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 10:37 am“The 1990s called, they want their foreign policy back.”
ingot9455 (0e6d9a) — 9/29/2023 @ 10:38 amPutin has one degree of deniability, Dana, because those “presenters” on Russian TV were spouting off. Putin can say he never said that stuff, although everything those talking heads are saying has Putin’s tacit stamp of approval in media that is completely under his control.
We already know that Putin’s NATO excuses are actually excuses because he didn’t cite NATO expansion as his rationale for the 2014 invasions of the Crimean and Donbas regions.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/29/2023 @ 10:40 amhttps://hotair.com/headlines/2023/09/28/new-comer-to-subpoena-bank-records-of-joe-biden-hunter-biden-n581177
Getting there. Millions of dollars thanks to “his uncle’s brother” being the connection.
NJRob (8943db) — 9/29/2023 @ 10:44 amNo Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen. — Article I, Section 3.
nk (bb1548) — 9/29/2023 @ 10:48 amWonder how Article I Section 3 applies to temporary gubernatorial appointments – ’cause they’re by definition not elected.
Sam G (8d2ed1) — 9/29/2023 @ 11:06 amThat says nothing about whether an appointed Senator needs to be a resident of the State, but my suggestion about Michelle Obama was with my tongue firmly in cheek.
🤣
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 11:12 amThat says nothing about whether an appointed Senator needs to be a resident of the State, but my suggestion about Michelle Obama was with my tongue firmly in cheek.
Ahem, ahem: I submit Meghan Markle Windsor of Montecito, CA as the next (appointed) United States Senator. There is nothing preventing her from breaking her promise and seeking the six-year term next November.
JVW (447fb9) — 9/29/2023 @ 11:36 amMany Republicans opposed Lend-Lease (to help the UK against the Nazis) in 1941. 135 against, 25 in favor.
Sadly, history repeats.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 12:36 pmMcCarthy is a hangnail on Trump’s pinky, and Trump is a traitor who would sell out America for a second slice of chocolate cake.
McCarthy is a weather vane in a tornado. He has no principles, not even fealty to Trump. Just self-interest.
He really only has two options now:
1. Put up a Democrat-sponsored bill.
2. Resign.
He can do both.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 12:40 pmAn out of the box choice would be Michelle Obama, since there are no residency requirements for the job.
I expect him to appoint Jerry Brown.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 12:41 pmTrump is a traitor who would sell out America for a second slice of chocolate cake.
A 10% off coupon at the knocking shop.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 12:42 pmA multi-front invasion by a sovereign power against an independent sovereign state isn’t a “border security” issue
But targeted attacks against groups flooding poison into the US would be different. We use special forces all the flipping time and much further away from our own border often without the knowledge or permission of the host country.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 12:46 pmLOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 12:46 pmI submit Meghan Markle Windsor of Montecito, CA as the next (appointed) United States Senator.
It might look like work, and really, she’s too shallow a person to serve in the Senate.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 12:48 pmI hear that Melissa has (again) renegotiated her prenup to get a sizable trust fund set aside for her son. Some discomfort about Donald’s financial woes.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 12:50 pmAs for Ukraine’s border security, at this (early) stage we’re already spending well over ten times what Trump requested for our own border security.
The fact that Democrats will not vote for security on the southern boarder does not mean that we should throw Ukraine to the wolves. It’s a stupid argument, actually.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 12:53 pm@18: An appointed Senator IS elected, just a very small electorate.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 12:54 pmExample #1:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 12:54 pmThat would be up to the Senate to determine.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 12:56 pmI know it’s a radical and heretofore unvoiced concept, but how appointing someone based on the content of their character and not the color of their skin or the content of their undergarments?
nk (bb1548) — 9/29/2023 @ 1:39 pmAnd: Will anybody care?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 1:39 pmIt’s called politics.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 1:41 pmArguably, Newsom could make an interim appointment of a non-resident if California law allows it. Interim. If by writ of election, then we’re back to Article I, Section 3.
nk (bb1548) — 9/29/2023 @ 1:42 pmMaybe Newsom will appoint Willie Brown, although that could be awkward. But not for Newsom.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 1:42 pmFor all we know, Special Forces may already be there, and I don’t oppose that, but wasn’t what DeSantis was proposing, as I recall.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/29/2023 @ 1:50 pmRobert F. Kennedy Jr. Planning to Announce Independent Run
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 1:54 pmIt is unclear if RFKJ will take votes from Democrats or from anti-vax Republicans.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 1:55 pmI remember,I think maybe the last time there was a partial government shutdown they started passing bills that carved out some things in advance of a full continuing resolution, Have they forgotten about that now?
Sammy Finkelman (6b8ecd) — 9/29/2023 @ 2:03 pm@39
Yeah, I’m not sure I buy that.
Old Guard Democrats™ will find appeal to the Kennedy name.
Climate-conscious Democrats™ would likely vote for Kennedy.
The Blue Dog Democrats™ would vote for him.
Lastly, the Clintonista Democrats™ would likely too.
Maybe some hardcore MAGA voter would pull the lever for RFK, but I think mostly those voters would abstain.
On the whole, RFK Independent run would be a net-negative for Democrats than whomever’s the GOP candidate.
whembly (5f7596) — 9/29/2023 @ 2:26 pmNewsom should appoint barbara lee if he wants support from the base. Corporate establishment want adam shiff.
asset (2550a6) — 9/29/2023 @ 2:35 pmDana-
steveg (8ee0ca) — 9/29/2023 @ 2:50 pmSafe and happy travel to you
I applaud Ms Clinton and Joe Biden for holding DC vendido standards to millions in cash rather Trump and his cake.
steveg (8ee0ca) — 9/29/2023 @ 2:54 pmComedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 2:57 pmLooking forward to RFKJ’s polling-that will really be Comedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 3:05 pmThe first of the Fulton County 19 has pled guilty, one of the pawns. I suspect that he’ll be a cooperating witness.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/29/2023 @ 3:20 pmWhiplashed:
………..
(Senator Robert) Menendez was indicted last week, a year and a half after federal agents found nearly $500,000 at his home, including gold bars. The feds allege the senator accepted bribes to advance the interests of the Egyptian government and associates of his. Those associates, along with his wife, have also been indicted.
Over the weekend, McCarthy was asked (by CNN’s Manu Raju) if Menendez should resign.
“Yeah, very much so,” the speaker said.
On Tuesday, Raju asked about Rep. George Santos (R-NY), a member of McCarthy’s razor-thin House majority. Santos was indicted on 13 counts by a federal grand jury in May for “wire fraud, money laundering, theft of public funds, and making false statements to the U.S. House of Representatives.”
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 3:46 pm……….
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/ex-loudoun-superintendent-found-guilty-of-retaliating-against-teacher-who-spoke-out-about-sex-assault/
Public school corruption has no bounds.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/29/2023 @ 3:47 pmhttps://freebeacon.com/latest-news/just-6-percent-of-new-sp-jobs-went-to-white-applicants-in-the-wake-of-george-floyd-analysis-shows/
Anti-white racism for all to see. But silence on all fronts.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/29/2023 @ 3:52 pmNewsom should appoint barbara lee if he wants support from the base. Corporate establishment want adam shiff.
He won’t appoint anyone now in the race, nor anyone who would get into the race after the appointment. Caretakers only need apply.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 3:54 pmThe timeline outlined in the case matches the June 2021 publication by ProPublica of the tax records of wealthy Americans
Why can’t someone steal the records of progressive activists. I’m sure that ProPublica would publish them; it’s not like they are partisan, right?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 3:56 pmRIP Terry Kirkman (83):
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 4:17 pm“They say there’s so much water up north…”
They never say who “they” is, and neither does Trump.
A few years ago, Trump said that CA wouldn’t have all these forest fires if they raked the forest floors like they do somewhere in Scandinavia, which is a fake story. Now he’s saying he can dampen the forest floors, and problem solved. But it’s a fake solution; anyone who saw the water levels at Lake Shasta a year ago would know that.
I’ll believe Trump’s “plan” like I believe he could balance the federal budget, replace Obamacare with his better plan, and negotiate a peace deal in 24 hours.
On the Left, there’s mentally diminished and, on the Right, there’s mentally insane. We’re so f-cked.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/29/2023 @ 4:36 pmTrump has always reminded me of Hitler in Der Untergang talking about the new secret weapons that will win the war a few hours before … you know. Except that Trump does it with everything.
Pseudologia fantastica. He spews the crap and where it sticks it sticks. And, unfortunately, it sticks with the people who will choose the next Republican nominee, whether Trump or one of the other twerps, and half the Congress.
nk (bb1548) — 9/29/2023 @ 4:47 pmhttps://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-black-lives-matter-equal-opportunity-corporate-diversity/
Really interesting article about diversity in the workforce. Worth a full read as the soundboard summaries are petty misleading.
Time123 (721bfc) — 9/29/2023 @ 4:47 pmYour approval about racism towards white people is duly noted. Explains a lot.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/29/2023 @ 5:05 pmHave you completely lost the ability to comprehend basic English? How did you turn “really interesting article….worth a read” into that?
Time123 (dcbd35) — 9/29/2023 @ 5:09 pmWhembly speaks wisely in comment 41
Time123 (dcbd35) — 9/29/2023 @ 5:11 pm“Charles Littlejohn, 38, of Washington, D.C., was charged Friday with one count of unauthorized disclosure of tax information, and he faces up to five years in prison, according to a Justice Department news release.”
I guess at age 82 Eugene Hasenfus was the victim of ageism
steveg (8ee0ca) — 9/29/2023 @ 5:34 pmhttps://finance.yahoo.com/news/york-city-tells-migrants-better-192102631.html
Leftists want to destroy Republican states, but not pay for their actions.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/29/2023 @ 5:38 pmI guess at age 82, go to fall guy Eugene Hasenfus was the victim of ageism
steveg (8ee0ca) — 9/29/2023 @ 5:38 pmTime,
your nonsense about “the soundboard summaries are pretty misleading” says it all.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/29/2023 @ 5:38 pmI think Jack Smith should’ve kept his gag order powder dry, only because a guy like Milley seems immune from being threatened or intimidated by Trump.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/29/2023 @ 6:03 pmBut, Milley is on the witness list for the DC trial, and other witnesses are paying attention…
I liken his “ideas” to essentially being another ‘injection of bleach to kill coronavirus’…
Dana (aac8e9) — 9/29/2023 @ 6:15 pmThe better question is why aren’t the NYT and PP being prosecuted for publishing the leaked information. Send a few reporters to jail and their employers will stop accepting leaked documents.
Rip Murdock (512e74) — 9/29/2023 @ 6:36 pmAffirmative action came out of the riots of the 1960’s when black people were burning down a city a week. Newerk one week detroit the next week. Black soldier draftees sitting down on the runway refusing to go to detroit to shoot down their black brothers. The idea was if blacks had jobs in the buildings they were less likely to burn them down. Its called dehonkifacation! @ republicans don’t want to pay for their actions either ;but they will. As thomas jefferson said I tremble for my country when I remember god is just. Kent state/jackson state, fred hampton and mark clark murderers have not been brought to justice YET! to name just two. Gavin Newsom better name Barbra Lee to that senate seat if he ever wants to run for president in black primary area states.
asset (146a2c) — 9/29/2023 @ 6:38 pmIf Whembly is correct, why aren’t those Democrats supporting RFKJr now?
Rip Murdock (512e74) — 9/29/2023 @ 6:41 pmNot gonna happen. He’ll name a black woman, just not her.
Rip Murdock (512e74) — 9/29/2023 @ 6:43 pm@68 I am sure they taught you about the first amendment (freedom of press) Ever here of the pentagon papers? The media would go after them and never let up. Newsmen want to be martyrs it a good career move being interviewed in jail. See michael lacy new times arrest.
asset (146a2c) — 9/29/2023 @ 6:45 pmThe First Amendment is not absolute or a get out of jail card. Reporters can commit crimes in their reporting. The Espionage Act (which wouldn’t apply here) specifically bans the publication of classified information, it just hasn’t been enforced.
Publication of taxpayer information should be treated the same.
Rip Murdock (512e74) — 9/29/2023 @ 6:55 pmFive years in federal prison should shorten their careers. By that time nobody will remember them.
I have no idea why you think the sex trafficker Mike Lacey is relevant. He just proves my point.
Rip Murdock (512e74) — 9/29/2023 @ 7:02 pmThe Pentagon Papers Case did not save Julian Assange’s ass. Like it did not save Judy Miller’s in the Valerie Plame case. Or would not have saved Glenn Greenwald’s if he had not immediately snitched out Reality Winner.
What’s saving the media’s asses, for the time being, is a deep blue Democrat U.S. Attorney General bent on kissing them. Merrick Garland has announced a DOJ policy of doing good to his friends and evil to his enemies, and the media are the Democrats’ very bestest best friends.
nk (bb1548) — 9/29/2023 @ 7:26 pmWhen Newerk was burned, no one could tell the difference
steveg (8ee0ca) — 9/29/2023 @ 7:42 pmIf Whembly is correct, why aren’t those Democrats supporting RFKJr now?
If whembly is correct, why is the Libertarian Party talking to RFKJ?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 11:33 pmand the media are the Democrats’ very bestest best friends.
As long as they behave, of course. Trump may threaten Comcast and MSNBC, but it’s so ham-handed that no court will allow it for any expressed reason. But the Democrats know how to put the shiv in when no one is the wiser and the media bosses don’t what to mess with that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 11:36 pmI am sure they taught you about the first amendment (freedom of press)
Sure they can print their stolen goods, but they still are in receipt of stolen goods. Like speech, you are free to libel someone — no one can stop you — but you may have to pay up later.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:26 am@74 lacy was jailed for reporting on sheriff joe arpaio.
asset (146a2c) — 9/30/2023 @ 1:11 amPresident biden asks senate republicans not to block democrats from replacing feinstein on judicary committee so democrats force him to use pardon powers to retaliate since house will impeach him anyway.
asset (146a2c) — 9/30/2023 @ 1:17 amRip, because it’s early yet. Also, I think there are more ppl who would be looking to vote against trump, then against Biden. So another alternative to Trump on the tick hurts Biden.
Time123 (710106) — 9/30/2023 @ 3:38 amJustices take major Florida and Texas social media cases
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 8:47 amThe companies also object to having to explain any blocking or removal decisions.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 8:50 amFrench has a sobering assessment of Putin’s War Against Ukraine. There’s a good reason why Ukraine’s counteroffensive is going slowly, and there’s an equally good reason why it’s in our national interests to get them the weapons they need, and quickly. The majority of non-Reaganesque Republicans in the House are serving Putin’s interests, not ours.
I’m going to liberally cut-and-paste from this post by Mr. Mott.
Bolded part mine, but I think he meant from the Azov Sea to Kherson, not “from the north”. There’s a reason why one of the first legs of Putin’s invasion was to connect the Donbas and Crimean regions, and it’s just as important that Ukraine break it.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/30/2023 @ 8:52 amIt’s always “early yet”, but pretty soon it’s gonna be too late.
Rip Murdock (512e74) — 9/30/2023 @ 9:11 amAnd he could be doing federal time as a sex trafficker, the worst kind of federal time.
Rip Murdock (512e74) — 9/30/2023 @ 9:13 amDeSantis went into hostile territory and acquitted himself well against Bill Maher. Gave people a reason to vote for him and actually had Maher conceeding his successes.
NJRob (f522dc) — 9/30/2023 @ 9:48 amBecause 2024 state primary election filing deadlines are rapidly approaching.
Rip Murdock (512e74) — 9/30/2023 @ 10:03 amThe Republicans said “no problemo.”
Rip Murdock (512e74) — 9/30/2023 @ 10:09 amWhat does that mean? The president can’t pardon an impeachment.
Rip Murdock (512e74) — 9/30/2023 @ 10:11 amHe can always pardon Menendez.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 10:30 amInteresting old story in the Guardian illustrates why Russia can never be trusted
“I was in Georgia when I went to bed,” said the energetic 81-year-old farmer, speaking from behind the head-height fence. “When I woke I was in South Ossetia.”
Its easy. Russia periodically moves the border another 100 meters, puts up razor wire and signs. It’s now Russian territory
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/20/russian-expansion-georgia-south-ossetia#:~:text=%E2%80%9CWhen%20I%20woke%20I%20was,for%20control%20of%20South%20Ossetia.
steveg (6f6d42) — 9/30/2023 @ 10:32 amhttps://twitter.com/sumlenny
This links a long thread about how the FSB run Russian pulp fiction agitprop business kicked into high gear gear in 2010 with main story line of Russia defeating Nazi Ukraine and crushing NATO equipment. Nifty cover art featuring Russian hero patriots raising the Soviet hammer and sickle Iwo Jima style over the burning US Capitol, book displays in bookstores surrounded by military style gear for sale.
Of course Hollywood often casts Russians as villains and as military, spy opponents but this was a deluge
steveg (6f6d42) — 9/30/2023 @ 11:04 amThe person writing the thread sees this agitprop aimed at youth then, to have been preparation for now adult military aged young men to wage this war to retake their former Eastern European territories. They can move fences 100 yards at a time in Georgia, but that will never work in Ukraine, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania so they need to conduct a shooting war to get those back
steveg (6f6d42) — 9/30/2023 @ 11:20 amRelated:
Time to take a plea deal, or do you feel lucky?
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 11:41 amI guess Trump wasn’t paying his legal fees.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 11:48 amWhat law I want as we approach a government shutdown:
1. Congressional pay stops (this should automatically happen if they don’t pass a budget)
2. Close the congressional gym
3. No free airport parking
4. No free flights
5. Reduce staff to 3…freeze personal budgets
6. Minimum security detail at Capitol
7. All congressional health care subsidies must be paid out of pocket
Stress the individuals to do their job.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/30/2023 @ 11:52 amWait, what?!
I doubt his act falls under the Speech & Debate Clause. It would be ironic if he’s kicked out of Congress before Menendez or Santos.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:00 pm6. Minimum security detail at Capitol
Too soon?
steveg (6f6d42) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:00 pmDeSantis flips on abortion, supports a 15-week national ban and blames the Florida Legislature for the six-week ban that he signed into law:
LOL! Blaming the FL Legislature for the six-week ban is like his response to January 6th: “I wasn’t anywhere near Washington that day. I have nothing to do with what happened that day.”
Completely feckless.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:02 pmSo we can go through this all over again in 45 days.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:04 pmWill Darling Nikki be next?
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:14 pmGeorge Conway, to Ms. Boebert: “He [Bowman] did wrong, and should be thrown out of the House, but tbh you’re the last person to criticize someone for pulling something.”
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:16 pmWell, better late than never, but he should have vetoed the damn thing if he didn’t like it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:25 pmIt is really funny the way that Republicans talked themselves into all those abortion ban bills while Roe was in effect — basically decades of pandering and posturing — and then found that those votes and/or promises weren’t free after all.
Pretty much the way that the FCC is going to reimpose “net neutrality” despite the fact that their imagined parade of horribles never happened. In fact, ISP service got better and prices decreased.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:29 pmAhd the FL “6-week” bill is a total fraud as the woman has to accomplish about 12 weeks of tasks before the 6 weeks are up.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:30 pmWhat law I want as we approach a government shutdown:
In most states, furloughed workers are still paid benefits. It’s the main difference between a furlough and a layoff.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:34 pmI doubt his act falls under the Speech & Debate Clause. It would be ironic if he’s kicked out of Congress before Menendez or Santos.
I expect him to be fined, and perhaps spend a night or two in the Congressional slammer if anyone remembers where it is.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:36 pmComedy Gold!
🤣The RCP general election average has Trump +1.3 over Biden and DeSantis -2.5 behind Biden.
Before you win the general election, you need to win the primaries, and DeSantis isn’t leading in any state polls right now, not even in Florida.
Good luck!
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:52 pmOh please. Is pulling a fire alarm even a crime (anywhere)? It’s not like he called in a fake bomb threat or swatted McCarthy.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:56 pmMore Comedy Gold!
🤣Trump leads DeSantis by 44 points in the RCP national average.
Demanding a debate with Trump, who leads you by more than 40 points, is a sure sign that DeSantis is desperate. If anyone should be demanding a debate with DeSantis it should be Haley, as she is only 10 points behind him.
But instead DeSantis will be debating Gavin Newsom, a complete non-factor in the Republican presidential race. DeSantis got suckered.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 1:12 pmCorrection to post 112:
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 1:19 pm“Oh please. Is pulling a fire alarm even a crime (anywhere)?”
Duh.
But, Rule of Law fans, is it really a crime if you get away with it? As a democrat like Bowman certainly will.
lloyd (ddf9ab) — 9/30/2023 @ 1:22 pmIf anyone should be demanding a debate with DeSantis it should be Haley, as she is only 10 8 points behind him.
IIRC, the RNC insists that candidates only participate in RNC-sanctioned debates.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 1:48 pmOh please. Is pulling a fire alarm even a crime (anywhere)? It’s not like he called in a fake bomb threat or swatted McCarthy.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 1:54 pm18 USC 1512
(c) Whoever corruptly—
(2) otherwise obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so,
shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.
How will Trump observe the anniversary of the events of November 8, 1923?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 2:04 pmThen I guess DeSantis will be violating that rule when he debates Newsom, and signing a pledge to support the Republican nominee when you don’t really mean it.
The RNC’s rules are unenforceable; I sure all would be forgiven if lightning hits Trump and DeSantis or Haley become the nominee.
🤣
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 2:21 pmThat was deliberately unserious, BTW.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/30/2023 @ 2:27 pmHave a German lager. Prost!
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 2:28 pmLOL!
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 2:29 pmEven Trump doesn’t believe Michelle Obama will enter the Democratic presidential race, dashing the prognostications of Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 2:35 pm@87 they were ads in new times by sex workers and you know this.
asset (b03ac6) — 9/30/2023 @ 2:39 pmI don’t think Michelle Obama is interested in running for President because I don’t think she is interested in being President.
steveg (6f6d42) — 9/30/2023 @ 2:44 pmShe has a great life right now. She can pick and chose what she does each day, who she talks to, where she goes. She has money, probably hasn’t picked up a check in the past 7 years. President would be a step down unless there was a deep fire inside for the job and I don’t think she liked the job all that much when her husband had it.
All black jury in washington d.c. would not convict bowman. He would be re-elected in a NY minute. Santos must be sweating this out. As a squad member rethugs, democrat corporate establishment stooges on one side and progressives on the other side will have the knives out for each other and black women are already upset with corporate establishment democrat newsom saying he wont appoint Barbara Lee to ca. senate seat as their loyalty to democrat party is flushed down the toilet again by party leadership.
asset (b03ac6) — 9/30/2023 @ 2:52 pmMulti-Million Dollar Campaign to Stop Donald Trump Flops:
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 2:59 pmThe problem is that opponents like the Club for Growth or other status quo ante organizations have no effing clue why Trump is eating their lunch. They just assume it’s because people haven’t heard their message and are shocked to find out that not only have they heard it, they utterly reject it.
In short, “more cowbell” isn’t the answer.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 3:04 pmActually I did not know that, but then again I a) don’t live in Phoenix, or b) read those pages. All I do know is that Mike Lacey is under 93-count federal indictment for sex trafficking through his Backpage website.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 3:11 pmWishcasting by Democrats and some Republicans.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 3:15 pmBarbara Lee is a loser (single digits in a 3-way race) and Democrats want to retain the seat. If she was appointed you would see people like Steve Garvey enter the race and win (which would be a good thing for CA Republicans).
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 3:22 pmIndeed. If Lee was appointed, no Democrat would challenge her for fear of being called a racist. But Steve Garvey?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 3:34 pmGarvey’s interest in the Senate seat was a thing back in June, but came up again a couple of weeks ago.
Considering that California Republicans haven’t won a Senate race since 1988, the best they can do now to win is run a celebrity candidate.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 3:47 pmBecause that worked so well for Herschel Walker….
Garvey has some issues himself. IIRC, he was juicing the whole time.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 4:42 pmAlso, his marital life was a total mess, divorcing, fathering several children out of wedlock, and suing his former wife for access to his kids, who testified they were not interested. He was also sued by the FTC for fraud, but a court ruled he was not culpable for things he said as a paid spokesperson.
and, oops, maybe he didn’t use steroids after all. The stuff I had read in the past is gone.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 4:51 pmThe best thing Republicans can do is support the strongest conservative candidate. If we still get Trump, then we’ve advocated as much as we can do and then in the general we vote for what is best for the country and what our conscience can handle. If other people want to tout Trump or bad-mouth the better conservative candidates, then that’s their prerogative. If you are in a deep blue or bright red state, then try and get someone in a swing state to choose that strongest conservative non-Trump candidate. Polls can change.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/30/2023 @ 4:58 pmWho is?
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 5:35 pmHere’s one person’s advice:
I hope Rob can reassure us the dude is just another moby leftist.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/30/2023 @ 5:48 pmFor that matter, here’s that moby leftist’s view of anyone still on the Trump train:
lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/30/2023 @ 5:51 pmMore Magical Thinking After Debate #2:
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 5:53 pmTouché!
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 5:55 pm@126/127 I have been saying for years here. Maybe you can get thru to the pollyannas.
asset (dba697) — 9/30/2023 @ 6:09 pmThe polls sure don’t show that; for as long as Trump is on the ballot, why vote for an imposter when you vote for the real thing? LOL!
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 6:11 pm30% fewer calories than the regular Trump?
nk (bb1548) — 9/30/2023 @ 6:17 pmThanks for trolling.
NJRob (398bfa) — 9/30/2023 @ 6:18 pmMy bad. That should have been moby leftist troll. Thanks.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/30/2023 @ 7:01 pmAnd leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 7:04 pmI think DeSantis-Christie-Haley are the three best GOP candidates who remain that are plausible. Hutchinson-Scott-Pence-Burgum-Hurd aren’t bad candidates, I just see them getting winnowed out. Right now, I like Haley. She’s a normal Republican. Will she expand her arguments against Trump? I guess we’ll see. I hope so. There’s no point in being hyper-critical of people who are a country mile in front of Trump in terms of dignifying the office. We don’t need better candidates; we need voters to see the flaws in the leading candidate.
AJ_Liberty (b2c084) — 9/30/2023 @ 7:11 pmComedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 7:14 pmYou know why Dems aren’t rallying behind Robert Menendez? Cockburn at The Spectator tells us it is payback for his opposition to Obama’s Iran Deal, and that a former Harry Reid staffer now working for John Fetterman is doing the dirty work:
Just in case anyone wants to pretend that Democrats are actually concerned about Menendez’s using his office to enrich himself by taking money from hostile countries. Nah, it’s just about petty Obama-era bickering. No need to ascribe ethical concerns to this; in the age of Trump and Biden, those ideals are hopefully old fashioned.
JVW (20cca9) — 9/30/2023 @ 7:22 pmWaiting for Godot. Trump’s personal approval among Republican voters is 78-20 according to a Yougov poll from a couple of weeks ago.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 7:33 pmthis race is over, Donald Trump will be the nominee, they might as well quit having the Republican Party meet because it will go on the ash heap of history with a candidate facing life in prison.
FIFY. Trump will be the first candidate to get zero electoral votes.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 9:45 pmHow is Donald Trump like Brian Mulroney?
(Mulroney’s ruling party only won 2 percent of the popular vote and no seats in the 1988 election)
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 9:48 pmLOL! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 10:05 pmThat assumes a lot of facts not in evidence.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 10:12 pmI think they’re grievously mistaken. Their affection and trust is misplaced. Possibly because media sources they trust have misled them, with the effect amplified by partisan social media misinformation.
I would point to the Illusory Truth Effect
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect
People hear false claims often enough that they start to believe them. In part, we see it with the claim that the 2020 election was stolen. All serious investigatory individuals and groups came to a common conclusion: there was no fraud on a level sufficient to change the results in any of the swing states. Trump supporters continue to believe it though…with that false belief undoubtedly bolstering their positive feelings about Trump.
When trusted media sources say a charge is selective prosecution, that the other guy is probably more corrupt, and that the justice system has been ideologically weaponized, it’s difficult to accept that those voices are in fact not leveling.
But a minority…though sizable chunk…of the GOP does recognize Trump’s behavior as wrong, with many two-time-Trump voters becoming NeverTrump. So people do change. Negative ads will continue to build as we march towards actual votes. I suspect that we will hear more pointed commentary by primary opponents. Big money donors will continue to get nervous. Trump will continue to post deluded musings on social media, while refusing to have his electability honestly tested in public forums. He can’t afford to…his explanations exude weakness.
Truth has always got a shot in my book. Every day more people pay greater attention. The first of many important polls will be in 3.5 months. The rubber will hit the road.
AJ_Liberty (c83688) — 9/30/2023 @ 10:23 pmWe’ll see if the polls between now and January 2024 are substantially different than the polls have been over the past 6 months (I don’t think they will). Trump has increased his dominance during this timeframe, despite being indicted on four times totaling 91 separate charges.
It is also unlikely that any of these charges will be considered by a jury before the new year, so Trump will enter the primary campaign with a presumption of innocence. And it is possible he can become the nominee on Super Tuesday, during his election subversion trial.
As noted above, $6M in attack ads in Iowa and South Carolina only made Trump more popular.
Rip Murdock (86bbcb) — 9/30/2023 @ 10:54 pm@149 I am a democrat and I am concerned, as I am concerned with biden/clinton family corruption. I had to vote green party in 2016/2020 because of it.
asset (a9573f) — 9/30/2023 @ 11:00 pm@151 Can I have the other side of that bet.
asset (a9573f) — 9/30/2023 @ 11:02 pmHow big is a “sizable chunk”? My guess is the number is pretty small. That’s hard to believe when Trump’s personal approval rating among Republicans is in the mid-70s.
Rip Murdock (86bbcb) — 9/30/2023 @ 11:03 pmThe club for growth, heritage foundation, national review and other free trade think tanks and national conservative publications do have more then a clue ;but their donors will only fund a pro-free trade economic message. If they tell the emperor he has no cloths and populist republican voters wont vote for free trade their funding will be cut off. As AOC says in her party they have got the money We have the votes. Same in GOP. Never trumpers and donor class (who are anti-trump over free trade not morality) have similar economic agenda so they can work together.
asset (a9573f) — 10/1/2023 @ 2:33 amHere are the first two paragraphs of the annual PEPFAR report:
You can find a link to the appendices, and to previous reports, here.
Jim Miller (bcedee) — 10/1/2023 @ 5:38 amIn 120min of debate on Wednesday, there were exactly zero questions about Trump’s ability to win the general election while simultaneously consumed by at least one criminal trial, zero questions about an impending civil fraud conviction, zero questions about Trump’s unhinged rants about having General Milley executed, zero questions about Trump’s Schedule F executive order plans to change the work status of federal employees, and zero questions about the potential constitutional crisis of a President attempting to self-pardon himself and enact revenge on Jack Smith and the Department of Justice.
It’s difficult for a democracy to function rationally with major media organs shielding the President from criticism and civic accountability. Again, as important as candidate positions are on Ukraine, China, debt, and immigration, this primary is fundamentally a referendum on Trumpism…which Fox is studiously trying to avoid. Future debates will not be run by partisans with an agenda. As the clock ticks on Trump’s prosecutions, we will likely see more and more meaningful plea deals…meaning people with intimate knowledge of Trump’s involvement agreeing to testify in open court.
Conservatives sole focus as the primary season approaches should be to better inform voters and lay out the incompatability of the GOP claiming to be the party of law and order while simultaneously elevating Trump. You may argue that it is impossible. But it is critical. Arguing consistently for the inevitability of Trump does nothing but ensure a likely constitutional crisis in 2024 that might end in mass violence. It’s unclear what would be worse: a Trump win or another contested Trump loss. Every breath should be about combating illiberalism and ignorance.
Despair is for losers.
AJ_Liberty (c83688) — 10/1/2023 @ 5:56 amFrom my perspective, it’s not despair, but realism. Flailing about for non-existent candidates or what media organizations or “conservatives” should do is magical thinking that things will get better “if only……”
I agree completely with your first paragraph, but the “debate” format and organizations were chosen by the RNC, so the lack of hard questions is all on them.
Acknowledging the state of the primary race at any given point will not lead to a “constitutional crisis in 2024 that might end in mass violence”. That is pure hyperbole. It will be the voters in general election who will decide if there is a crisis.
It may be correct that those indicted with Trump (in the classified documents and Georgia cases) may flip. The classified documents case really doesn’t any corroboration, as it is pretty clear that Trump was not authorized to possess the documents in the first place. The government doesn’t need the testimony of his MAL staff to make their case. And in Georgia, most of the co-conspirators never met or interacted with Trump personally, so their utility in making a case against the former president is dubious.
In any event, Trump won’t face justice in any in criminal case until after the primary season (or at least after he has received the nomination.)
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 7:23 amSure, she’s made a few mistakes, but look at her. She’s hot! Gorgeous!
Here’s to the rest of Trump’s legal counsel performing at this level.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/1/2023 @ 7:39 amzero questions about Trump’s Schedule F executive order plans to change the work status of federal employees
Personally, I think that it is a good reform to remove upper management from civil service protections. The duty to ensure the laws are faithfully executed requires the ability to remove those who would thwart that.
As the government has grown, decision-making power has been delegated down the org chart, well into echelons protected by laws from 150 years ago. Presidents need to have the ability to select all such decision makers in the Executive branch.
Sure, Donald Trump is not the best case to put forward, but no president can function effectively with partisan opposition from within the ranks.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 7:42 amHere are the first two paragraphs of the annual PEPFAR report:
In a just world, George W Bush would be a strong candidate for the Peace Prize. Perhaps shared with Bill Gates.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 7:44 amThat assumes a lot of facts not in evidence.
Like what? His nomination? His multiple felony convictions? His inevitable statements? His upcoming penury?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 7:46 amTrump seems desperate to remove all opposition to his coronation, as well as to delay his several trials. He knows that, as he begins to be crushed by civil and criminal cases, and his supporters have to reconcile the many facts that will come out, existing credible opposition will start to look attractive and his candidacy will wane.
Even if he has the nomination “wrapped up” before the first guilty verdicts come in, the Convention can still find a way to choose someone else — it would take only a majority vote to free his delegates for cause, or even to bar him from nomination if the stink gets too bad.
So, he wants to preempt. It’s sad that Gingrich has become Giuliani.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 7:53 amI think we need to move on with new leadership that can be trustworthy,” Gaetz said Sunday
Which of these things is not like the other thing.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 7:55 amIf Trump is nominated (highly likely) and is convicted on any of the federal or Georgia indictments, I would expect some states (certainly in the south) to still vote for him.
But you should make the case for your assertion. Why do believe he will not receive any electoral votes?
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 7:57 amLOL! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 A convention full of Trump true believers voting against him? What RNC rules would allow his delegates to be taken away (be specific)? If Trump has a majority of the delegates they would rather strip them from the Lilliputians and award them to Trump.
Talk about magical thinking!
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:04 amI encourage Gaetz and the House Freedom Caucus to revolt and form their own party. The “Freedom Party” would be about right, and their beliefs would be in line with similarly named parties in Europe. Although maybe they’d have to merge with the “American Freedom Party.”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:05 amWhat RNC rules would allow his delegates to be taken away (be specific)?
The same rules that Reagan tried in 1976 and Teddy Kennedy tried in 1980. A majority vote of the delegates can change any rule, even now:
https://prod-static.gop.com/media/Rules_of_the_Republican_Party_090921.pdf
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:09 amSo, if by August 2024, Trump stands convicted of multiple violations of the Espionage Act, obstruction of Congress, conspiracy to defraud the United States, and operating a criminal conspiracy to corruptly overturn the will of the voters in Georgia, the delegates will have to decide if this is really the face they want to put on the Republican Party, knowing that many Republicans will refuse to go along.
Even getting to this point will probably split the GOP forever, and a large convention walkout is almost inevitable.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:17 amAgain, it is highly unlikely that a convention dominated by Trump delegates, with a leadership controlled by Trump, would ever do such a thing. Any replacement candidate would lose Trump’s voters in November.
Further, such an action would lead no doubt to the threat of political violence by MAGAWorld.
Republican convention fantasy camp. Just. Not. Gonna. Happen.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:20 amIt is also likely that any number of states will, after these convictions (particularly the GA ones), refuse Trump ballot access. Including a number of swing states, like Georgia, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan. The prospect of not being on enough ballots to actually win should weigh on the delegates.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:21 amIs that a bad thing?
Rip Murdock (86bbcb) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:22 amMore magical thinking. Even if this happens, it will be litigated and Trump’s removal will be blocked by the courts.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:25 amUnless those states have specific laws that allow for such removal, I doubt they will succeed in barring Trump from their ballots.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:30 am@180
Even then, I don’t think states can remove Trump.
Unfortunately, there’s no provision in the Constitution to prevent a convicted felony from winning the Presidency.
whembly (a43e5a) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:49 amYesterday was a day.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:54 amThe GOP passed a Putin-friendly spending resolution, the same day as Neville Chamberlain’s “peace in our time” speech and, per Dana’s link above, the same day that Russia celebrates their Day of Celebration of Russian Conquest.
@137
My response to that author…
Stick it where the sun done shine homie.
Democrats has pushed policies far more destructive that would take many years (if ever!) to unwind than any shenanigans Trump may have perpetuated.
The time to push for your preferred candidates is to be actively engaged in politics at grassroots AND during the primaries. You may not succeed in THIS cycle, but there are term limits for some office AND there’s a next cycle for you to lay down the groundwork.
Losing out on your preferred candidate and actively voting for Democrats because you don’t like the way your party is going is embracing Calvinism and you’d lose the opportunity to be “in the party” during the years for the setup in the next cycle. And you’d be responsible to all the awful policies Democrats are pushing.
Instead of being “in the now, instant gratification mindset“, we’d all be better off having a longer term mindset. A Trump-led administration for another 4 years isn’t going to “break” the US. It’ll be chaotic af, yes and the opposition will be turned to 11 again.
However, I think DeSantis (or even another candidate) may have a chance to win the primaries. You never know.
And before Rip goes LOL! Trump’s up by eleventy infinity billion…
HRC was up by that much in the GE on election night in 2015, with far more respected pollings. Just to show, polls often times gets it wrong.
whembly (a43e5a) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:07 am“And in Georgia, most of the co-conspirators never met or interacted with Trump”
Meadows, Chesebro, Powell?
AJ_Liberty (c83688) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:10 amAs political pranks go, this one wasn’t bad.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:12 amUnfortunately, there’s no provision in the Constitution to prevent a convicted felony from winning the Presidency.
Amendment 14 will come into play. Watch and learn.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:16 am“And in Georgia, most of the co-conspirators never met or interacted with Trump”
That’s not necessary. Only that they were part of a criminal operation that was orchestrated by Trump. Most of John Gotti’s family never met John Gotti.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:18 amHRC was up by that much in the GE on election night in 2015
“Inevitable”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:19 amUnless those states have specific laws that allow for such removal, I doubt they will succeed in barring Trump from their ballots.
Supreme Courts can do amazing things if they have the will. Just look at all the election changes in 2020 that state courts wrought.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:20 amMore magical thinking. Even if this happens, it will be litigated and Trump’s removal will be blocked by the courts.
Outside of equal protection considerations, the federal courts have utterly no jurisdiction regarding presidential elections in the states.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:22 amThree out of 17.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:33 amHRC never commanded the personal loyalty that Trump does. I doubt her personal approval ever can close to Trump’s 70+.
LOL!
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:37 amAnd I’m not talking about the general election, which is a different dynamic. I focused on the Republican primary.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:39 amGiuliani, Eastman, Clark, Ellis…
Eastman may go to his grave before turning, but the rest?
AJ_Liberty (c83688) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:42 amLOL! Trump won’t be convicted of insurrection or rebellion, since he hasn’t been charged with either. Not is the President an “ officer of the United States,” but that is another discussion. The current Supreme Court doesn’t think so.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:45 amTrue believers. The only ones that will flip before trial will be the low level defendants, like the fake electors and others whose legal bills aren’t being paid by Trump.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:50 am@195
I think this is right.
The Office of the Presidency is a distinctly, unique animal and our founders were WELL aware what they were doing.
The President is a civilian office with unique inherent powers.
whembly (a43e5a) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:51 amRip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:57 am
Well-played, lurker. As a bonus, Rob and whembly both revealed they are don’t read links.
DRJ (f2c6b8) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:10 amWhere’s the specific language that covers felony convictions for presidents?
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:28 amI think this is right.
I think this is pedantry.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:44 amWhere’s the specific language that covers felony convictions for presidents?
All that is needed is for state courts to decide that Trump engaged in an insurrection. Their standard of proof is … their standard of proof.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:45 amSo you’re advocating that State Supreme Courts perform extrajudicial activism in pursuit of a policy goal you favor?
I am advocating nothing, any more than you are advocating a Trump nomination.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:46 amFourteenth Amendment fantasy camp.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:58 am“All” is doing a lot of heavy lifting, Kevin. At this point, it’s arguable that Trump could be denied on 14th Amendment grounds, and any state court decision would likely get tested in the Supreme Court. I’ve read the arguments by Tribe and others, but I’d rather see a brighter line, like a seditious conspiracy indictment. But we’ll how the Colorado case goes.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:59 amPaul, please tell me what the Supreme Court will use to get around the Constitution making presidential elections state-run. It’s not like the situation in Romer, where it was a congressional election — which IS federal — and is given to Congress to regulate.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:06 amOoops. Not Romer, but US Term Limits. Faulty memory.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:08 amWill the GOP oust McCarthy? If so, will they elect him again?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:09 amSince any disqualification by a state court would be under the 14th Amendment involves interpreting the US Constitution, it would be appealable to the US Supreme Court.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:14 amIn a just world, George W Bush would be a strong candidate for the Peace Prize. Perhaps shared with Bill Gates.
In a serious world, a peace prize would not be named after the inventor of modern munitions and the owner of more than 90 armaments factories at the times of his death.
So, yeah, by that standard, George W. Bush could receive the Nobel. Bill Gates has done nothing to deserve such degradation.
nk (bb1548) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:16 amThe Supremacy Clause. States determine the time, place and manner, but it’s still a national election. You could even argue that the 14th Amendment is an argument against denying Trump, under equal protection grounds. Is it kosher for every single state to set their own separate standards for what constitutes involvement in an insurrection or rebellion?
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:17 amOf course, IANAL, but neither are you.
Bill Gates has done nothing to deserve such degradation.
Well, those goalposts kinda went chaotic here, but Gates has done quite a bit — with his own money — to eradicate malaria.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:20 amOnly with support from the Democrats.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:23 amSince any disqualification by a state court would be under the 14th Amendment involves interpreting the US Constitution, it would be appealable to the US Supreme Court.
States can incorporate federal protections more broadly than the federal courts require. They could, for example, extend press rights to bloggers, at least within the state. They could extend jury trials to state civil courts, which not all do. And they could protect voters from insurrectionists seeking to get on the STATE ballot.
Admittedly a congressional candidate would have some federal recourse, but someone seeking the state’s electors? JFK was not on every state ballot in 1960, for far less reason.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:24 amNote that no state is even required to HOLD a popular election for president. They can conduct said election as they see fit. I see no reason why they cannot impose a no-felony rule, or failing that, revert the election to the legislature should a felon be nominated.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:27 amThat may be, but has any state created such a rule? I’m not sure about reverting the election to the legislature, but I think the citizens would revolt at the inability to vote for the candidate of their choice.
You’re just spitballing ideas which have no basis in reality.
LOL! Stop Trump by any means necessary fantasy camp.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:39 amYou’re just spitballing ideas which have no basis in reality.
No, I’m showing that the federal government cannot force a state to put someone on their ballot.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:41 amA no-felon rule would probably be an unconstitutional addition to the qualifications to be president.
To paraphrase Roper in A Man For All Seasons, you seem to be willing to tear down democracy to get to the Devil himself.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:58 amStates control the “time, place and manner” of elections. They can’t add additional requirements to appear on the ballot. When California required presidential candidates to release their tax returns, a federal court enjoined enforcement, saying it violated the Qualifications Clause (U.S. Const., art. II, § 1, cl. 5.), citing your favorite case, U.S. Term Limits.
The federal court also said the California law violated the First Amendment rights of political candidates by limiting access to the primary ballot; as we as the 14th Amendment’s equal protection clause.
So any law that would ban felons from the ballot would clearly be unconstitutional.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 12:28 pmHRC held tremendous loyalty among Democrat Party women in LA, SF, NYC and almost all large blue metro areas. She had tremendous loyalty among Democrat Party men and women in nearly every state university town in America. She had loyalty from Party chairwoman Wasserman Schultz and she was the tip of the iceberg of powerful Democrat elites and party donors from Hollywood to Silicon Valley, East to Wall Street. She had the loyalty of nearly every large legal firm in every blue metro area. She had loyalty of entirety of the Washington DC party elite, and of nearly every union boss in the land. Heck, I’ll throw the entire WNBA and USWNT soccer in there for the fun of it.
What she did not have was the loyalty of everyone below the above folks on the status scale. She was counting on the herd to follow the elites
HRC continues to provide a good lesson there. Trumposaurus is the opposite. He has Zero loyalty in all of those elite enclaves and cohorts mentioned above and 90% of the elites hatred, but he managed to portray himself as a populist who would fight for the intensely loyal 40% of the country the elites call slack-jawed deplorables. Just because someone lives in a Louisiana swamp, talks like Louie Gohmert, voted for Trump, doesn’t mean they are stupid. I’ve worked my whole life with under educated, uneducated, unsophisticated, very smart, tough, resourceful people who are very loyal to people who recognize and facilitate them.
HRC summed up her ignorance when she cackled “Why am I not 50 points ahead?”. Answer was: You were ahead by 50 points- amongst the people you care about. Too bad for you the USA has a 40-45% of people who are fine that the elites don’t like them and they wear it proudly, and they will vote.
Identity politics has a weakness. I don’t know if anyone remembers the HRC speeches where she checked all the identity group boxes and thought she’d won by doing so? Ummmm, you left out the rest of the country? 5-10% of those identity groups will vote their own way. 5-10% won’t show up That 40% you disrespected? Oh. They will show up.
steveg (fe3094) — 10/1/2023 @ 12:34 pmComedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 1:01 pmReferences to the 2016 election and HRC are so irrelevant to today. She is only important to those whose heads she lives in.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 1:05 pmSo the answer to the Democrats and neverTrumpers who wring their hands with questions of why Republicans are stuck with Trump have themselves somewhat to blame. They disrespected the wrong group of people and that group has a long memory for that type of insult. That group feel disrespected when the GOP talks about moving on… “not without us you’re not”. Democrats are not dumb, so they’ve taken advantage of this loyalty and stoked it. A divided GOP is in their best interest. This is expected. They know Democrats hate them and are OK with it. That the GOP elites despise them hurts and the disrespect will be returned with interest.
steveg (fe3094) — 10/1/2023 @ 1:15 pmThe military spends quite a bit of time on lessons learned from past conflicts. Court decisions from over a century ago are still relevant today, and they are still studied to today by the very smart people but OK. Elections are different
steveg (fe3094) — 10/1/2023 @ 1:18 pmOne of the big questions in this election will be where goes the group with intense loyalty to Trump. I believe that saga began in the HRC for President era and persists. Why does it persist? I dunno, I only want to study 2022-23.
steveg (fe3094) — 10/1/2023 @ 1:24 pmI think these Trump loyalists need to reached out to and convinced to move forward away from Trump, but go ahead and keep chastising them for their votes in 2016 and 2020- its worked like a charm so far- for Biden
A no-felon rule would probably be an unconstitutional addition to the qualifications to be president.
US Term Limits only applies to federal elections. What part of “Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors” did you not understand?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 1:43 pm@221, You don’t have to be stupid to fall for a con man, just vulnerable and maybe a little desperate. Con men figure out what people want, then promise them the world, while bilking them along the way. Only the con man can provide them what they want and it will be the greatest ever. The longer you believe in the con, the harder it is to admit you’ve been scammed. As a con progresses, the victims are repeatedly asked to commit: to re-invest, to raise the stakes, to reassert their beliefs — I mean you gotta fight fight fight if you want to keep your country, right? The scam relies on the wishful identification with Trump — they want to win, hate, and bully as he does. They want the fabulous rich lifestyle and callipygian model arm candy. They want to live vicariously through Trump. When he wins, they win.
Trump has turned politics into his next Trump University and Trump Steaks. He mined Talk Radio for people’s insecurities and prejudices and targeted that. One might say, well, smart politics, except the only thing he truly delivered on…the Supreme Court…required just listening to the Federalist Society three times. Otherwise, a fair bit of losing and now an agenda that is headlined by retribution and vengeance. What can go wrong? Four indictments, an impending civil fraud verdict and potential bankruptcy, and the GOP wants to go a long for the ride, enjoying the drama and all of that winning. Again, is it smart to want someone as your nominee who will have to deal with four felony cases plus the civil fraud case? It seems at minimum a little self-indulgent to me. Character matters. Being a decent person matters. At some point, you have to do more than just give the middle finger to people you hate.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/1/2023 @ 1:45 pmStates control the “time, place and manner” of elections.
That’s Article I. Article II, which controls here, has a different prescription. US Term Limits v Thornton only pertains to Article I elections.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 1:45 pmArticle I, Section i, Clause 5 states:
It says NOTHING about how the states choose electors, only when. You really need to [explicit direction omitted] go read the damn thing. Arricle I and Article II have quite different rules for elections.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 1:49 pmArticle I, Section i, Clause 5 states
Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 states…
(See what you did!)
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 1:50 pmLOL! Trump is part of their identity, why would the reject a part of themselves? Trump loyalists would make the Republican Party even more conspiratorial than it already is. What could possibly convince them to abandon Trump, especially if he is imprisoned.
The answer should be to let the Trumpists have the Republican Party (they control most of its power centers anyway) and build a new Conservative Party that challenges MAGA candidates in 2026 and runs presidential candidates in 2028. Let MAGA whither on the vine.
As Kevin M brought up above, a good place to start would be a walkout by non-Trump delegates if Trump is nominated for President.
But they won’t.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 1:51 pmUS Term Limits does discuss the Qualifications Clause, which will prohibit the states from imposing a no-felon rule on candidates to access the ballot. I was not discussing how a state allocates its electors, a different issue.
Rip Murdock (86bbcb) — 10/1/2023 @ 1:59 pmStates have delegated the responsibility for its electors to the political parties. Only Utah addresses what happens when a candidate has a felony conviction, but candidate is not disqualified from the ballot:
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 2:09 pmBut the case (USTLvT) only touched upon direct elections of Article I officers. The voters do not vote for President, they vote for Electors. All the qualification Clause does is limits those candidates that Electors may consider.
How the Electors are chosen is strictly a state matter. The whole idea of pledged Electors and candidate names on the ballot is outside of the federal Constitution. Some states, at least until recently, simply listed the Elector candidates without reference to whom they were pledged to.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 2:11 pmDo you think the Qualifications Clause allows states to bar a candidate with a felony conviction from appearing on the ballot?
Rip Murdock (86bbcb) — 10/1/2023 @ 2:13 pmTo the best of my knowledge, no vote by a “faithless” elector has ever been discarded. I’d argue that once electors are chosen the process now operates under the federal constitution and state laws or other wishes are immaterial. The first Amendment may offer some defense to a faithless elector facing state criminal charges.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 2:15 pmThoughts?
“Autocracies and democracies both select leaders via a competitive process, so you often get leaders who are risk takers and have an action bias. They often suffer from a survivorship bias as well.
This is too dangerous.
The solution is embracing what I call elite sortition. To be precise: selecting leaders via a lottery amongst the smartest people in a polity. Not experts! One problem with experts is that a lot of expertise is questionable, or even obviously fake. In part because they’re often intellectually incestuous (the echo chamber effect).
Extremely intelligent people should be able to govern effectively if a bunch of other stuff is put in place. I don’t want to be become too technical on Twitter.
My great worry is that autocracies may permanently be stuck with autocracy, and democracies with democracy.
@PieterOmtzigt”
I think this is unworkable. Too many smart people mistake credentials (pedigree), academic achievement, for intelligence. Also elites won’t trust reaching out to smart people outside their class structure
steveg (fe3094) — 10/1/2023 @ 2:18 pmDo you think the Qualifications Clause allows states to bar a candidate with a felony conviction from appearing on the ballot?
Not in Congressional Elections, no. That’s been decided.
But presidential elections are indirect, and states have vast leeway regarding selection of Electors*. They may condition the choosing of Electors as they see fit, so long as they are not an Officer of the United States. I see no reason why they cannot refuse to print some candidate’s name on the ballot for such cause as they feel is disqualifying. The ELECTOR, of course, might well vote for the felon anyway.
———
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 2:22 pm*barring equal protection claims under the 14th Amendment
Do you think the Qualifications Clause allows states to bar a candidate with a felony conviction from appearing on the ballot?
Nor (since 1969) has Congress had the power to refuse a felon a seat. But again, that’s Congress.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 2:30 pmI have talking in the context of the presidential election.
Anyway, this colloquy has been a fun episode of the Stop Trump By Any Means Necessary fantasy camp. Let me know if any state takes up your suggestions.
Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 3:02 pmFrom Phillips O’Brien (no idea who he is)
This story points out one of the great fallacies of strategic relations over the last 150 years. There has been a notion that if states establish mutually beneficial economic relations it will make war less likely between then. Doesn’t seem to work.
ft.com
Merkel’s policies left Germany too reliant on Russian gas, adviser admits
Top economics aide says the ex-chancellor had little choice after deciding to phase out nuclear power
O’Brien responds to those who say this is different because the Russia-Germany interdependence was inherently unequal in the sense that Russia held the upper hand, wielded an inordinate measure of power in the relationship by pivoting to asking this question about China.
Interesting to read all the reactions. How about this as an example. US-Chinese trade has grown enormously in the last 30 years. Has it made conflict between the two less likely?
Two other thoughts on the subject:
Karam Macro
@KaramMacro
·
“It’s a human construct, not a machine. And so will occasionally fail when there are too many bad decisions and bad actors. But the principle remains sound.”
My question in response would be: Given that there are always bad actors, and always bad decision makers, is the principle sound given that utopian and dystopian are only a regime change or an election change away?
Tim Starr
@timstarr2001
“Trade is a consequence of peace, not a cause of it.”
I think money (personal prosperity) makes people blind and deaf, and/or fat, dumb, happy. Russia never stopped saying that it wanted to get the eastern europe band back together and continued to act out against its neighbors. Russia never stopped saying it felt Europe would be a better place for Russia if Germany was under the Russian thumb. But Germany ignored all of that because they need cheap energy for their wealth and prosperity.
The US Ok’d Russia owning a controlling interest in US Uranium and issued the following overly optimistic statement:
“As NRC explained in a March 2011 letter to Republican Sen. John Barrasso of Wyoming, the Russian company would have to… “commit to use the material only for peaceful purposes” in accordance with “the U.S.-Russia Atomic Energy Act Section 123 agreement for peaceful nuclear cooperation.”
Given that often several times a day, state run Russian media calls for using ALL weapons in the Russian arsenal while using nuclear imagery like mushroom clouds, I think it is safe to assume that Russian promises are best not trusted. I believe that the expressed threat of using the materials in a conflict is extortive, not peaceful.
I think that the trend of the western world cutting reliance on Chinese goods is reflective of the breakdown in trust that this is a two way street. Sure the basics remain in place. The west still can buy chinese products cheaper than it would cost to make those same products in house, but the Chinese have used the proceeds to project power in hegemonistic ways, protecting and expanding wealth, by projecting the capability of force and intimidation.
The world tends to operate cyclically and it seems we are entering a cycle that is responding to unbalances not in trade, but in the unbalances in trust caused by China and Russia’s internal perceptions regarding expansion and projection of control
steveg (fe3094) — 10/1/2023 @ 3:17 pmRip
I think Trump did well and continues to do well with people who identified with most of the Tea Party platform 2014 and took a buttload of crap for it. People who deeply resented being smeared as racist by media, CBC and Speaker Pelosi because they expressed their thoughts on the matter in the public square, thoughts that perhaps were not delivered or articulated in an acceptable fashion to elites of both parties, but when translation was plainly and kindly done primarily revolved around wanting to be heard, respected, and having representation in that public square.
Those people feel like Trump heard them, respected them then and still does now and that instilled deep loyalty.
To avoid offending sensibilities, I’ll fast forward past HRC to 2024 and ask you how you would complete a rapprochement with this group, or are they seen by you as undesirables that are unredeemable? In which case we throw in the towel until they all die off, or whatever thoughts you have are welcome?
thanks in advance
steveg (fe3094) — 10/1/2023 @ 3:38 pmApologies for spamming the board with my sometimes incoherent thought processes. I’m unusually concerned today that the US and the world are on a tightrope. War in Ukraine could spread to Europe Slovakia elected a pro-Putin leader, Serbia is saber- rattling around Kosovo, Iran, NK and the Palestinians remain unpredictable, China will eventually take Taiwan when their internal calculations pencil out in their favor, maybe tomorrow?
Not that any of this is all that new, or unique, just feeling uncertain of where the tipping point is and the real stuff kicks off.
thanks for your indulgence
steveg (fe3094) — 10/1/2023 @ 3:48 pmChina will eventually take Taiwan when their internal calculations pencil out in their favor, maybe tomorrow?
I heard or read an interesting point, either in The Spectator or on some podcast — I can’t recall — pointing out that China has no reason to invade Taiwan. It would be too costly militarily, and even someone as stupid and useless as Joe Biden would probably react negatively (or, more accurately, the people around Joe Biden would convince him to react negatively). The person making this point suggested that there is a slight chance that China might invade Taiwan shortly after the U.S. election next year, especially if it is as chaotic and divisive as the previous ones have been, but the stronger likelihood is that China just sits and plays the long game knowing damn well that Taiwan will be fully under its control and that the pro-democracy forces will be crushed within the next 20 years if not within the next 5 or 10.
JVW (0522b4) — 10/1/2023 @ 4:04 pmI think this is charitable as I could ever be towards Trump voters:
Trump being the aforementioned canine repast.
nk (2179e5) — 10/1/2023 @ 4:21 pmComedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (86bbcb) — 10/1/2023 @ 4:49 pmI think Trump did well and continues to do well with people who identified with most of the Tea Party platform 2014 and took a buttload of crap for it.
I’m pretty sure that people like me and our host are exceptions to that. Probably others here as well. The Tea Party was about smaller government and balanced budgets, 2 things that Trump had no interest in. It was essentially a revolt of the bourgeoisie; Trump’s folk are something else entirely.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:22 pmGavin Newsom to Appoint Laphonza Butler
Caligula’s horse would vote as reliably.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:24 pmChina just sits and plays the long game knowing damn well that Taiwan will be fully under its control and that the pro-democracy forces will be crushed within the next 20 years if not within the next 5 or 10.
China’s upcoming Great Depression may force it to kick the table over.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:26 pmWhich is worse:
President Joe Biden defending Taiwan in a shooting war with China, or
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:28 pmPresident Donald Trump defending Taiwan in a shooting war with China.
Gavin Newsom to Appoint Laphonza Butler
Will anyone have the cohones to call Gavin Newsom a racist for using race and sex as his sole consideration? Is this a violation of Prop 209?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:30 pmhttps://alphanews.org/1-charged-in-gang-rape-of-bemidji-girl-11-illegal-immigrants-processed-at-scene/
Joe Biden’s America. He created this.
NJRob (b78b4c) — 10/2/2023 @ 5:47 amNo and yes.
NJRob (b78b4c) — 10/2/2023 @ 5:51 am@199
In my defense, I was at work that has twitter blocked.
So, lurker was playing games here by obfuscating that.
But my sentiment remains unchanged.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/2/2023 @ 6:57 am@207
How’s this for pedantry…
Yes, the states are tasked to run their elections.
But the states don’t set the Constitutional requirements for federal offices.
You are conflating the two.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/2/2023 @ 7:06 amBut the states don’t set the Constitutional requirements for federal offices.
You are conflating the two.
No, you are. The states run elections for ELECTORS, not presidential candidates. So the requirements for that office are not germane to the state’s election. The Constitution places only one rule on Electors — they cannot simultaneously hold any office of trust or profit under the United States. However, states may impose additional rules (within the bounds of the 14th Amendment). They could, for example require them to be over 50.
As far as the actual election is concerned, any candidate names on the ballot are only there because the state legislature has said they should be there. It’s not required, and in past years states have not done that, listing only the candidates for Elector. So, excluding Trump’s name from the ballot would not be adding to the qualifications for the Presidency, but merely restricting whom an Elector could be bound to.
The Elector, of course, may vote as he wishes.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:22 amCongratulations to Katalin Karikó and Dr. Drew Weissman for the 2023 Nobel Prize in Medicine.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:26 amWrong. Proposition 209 barred discrimination in public contracting, public education, and public employment by the State of California and its political subdivisions. It did not restrict the governor’s constitutional authority to make appointments.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:30 amhttps://hotair.com/david-strom/2023/10/02/man-gets-180-days-in-workhouse-and-probation-after-raping-child-for-years-n581714
Biden’s America with leftist prosecutors.
NJRob (e64f54) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:36 amIt did not restrict the governor’s constitutional authority to make appointments.
What he did was contrary to the spirit of the law and the expressed will of the voters. Not that this is a problem for him, as the death penalty moratorium demonstrates.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:38 amSad!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:38 amYou are wrong. Because of who the link led to is why I called him a troll.
He’s trying to get people to bad mouth the host to get them banned.
NJRob (e64f54) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:39 amI knew you were going to say that. 🤣
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:40 amIt was an outright racial pander. I take some comfort that it wasn’t the execrable Barbara Lee.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:41 amIf the authors of Prop 209 wanted to restrict the governor’s appointing power they would have included that in the amendment.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:44 amLOL! Pandering to voters is how politicians get elected.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:45 amLOL! Pandering to voters is how politicians get elected.
This is how you get more Trump.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:47 amPer the (much) earlier discussion on whether an appointed Senator must live in the state they represent, Laphonza Butler is (currently) a resident of Maryland. However, I’ve read she also owns a home in View Park, an unincorporated part of Los Angeles County, which no doubt will be her new address.
Interesting factoids: For the first time since 1992, both California US Senators are from Southern California. Previously both were from Northern California (Feinstein and Boxer).
Also, California voters will face four Senate elections next year: a primary and general for the special and a primary and general for the regular — in the space of eight months.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 9:00 amPoliticians have been pandering to voters long before Trump:
LOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 9:09 amResidency is not an issue as Butler hasn’t been sworn in yet.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 9:11 amMore Sad!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 9:14 amI seriously doubt that. Changing the minimum age is a direct breach of Article II, Section 1.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/2/2023 @ 9:20 amThis will be good. There should be an over/under on how many times the Trumps plead the Fifth or refuse to answer.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/2/2023 @ 10:28 amToo bad New York is a hard “no” when it comes to televising trials. Must see TV!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 10:39 amToo bad New York is a hard “no” when it comes to televising trials. Must see TV!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 10:39 am
I would say “clink clink” followed by a phat bass line, but no one’s been killed…yet
urbanleftbehind (a85bd1) — 10/2/2023 @ 10:50 amGoing by the GOP majority in the House, Putin’s propaganda efforts are working. Sigh.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/2/2023 @ 10:56 amComedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 12:51 pmI think it was a mistake for judge and prosecution in the Trump real estate mess to undervalue Mar a Lago around $75M. Rush Limbaugh’s wife sold a much smaller property down the street for $155M (that probably has zero cash flow).
steveg (177b8e) — 10/2/2023 @ 1:52 pmValuation of real estate is both art and science and in the end is worth what someone will pay and why. $75M valuations shows no art and no science.
A 19 acre property here zoned AG 1-10 acres sold for $40,000,000. The zoning means it cannot be subdivided because the best you could do is two 9.5 acre parcels and the AG 1-10 zoning doesn’t allow for a parcel smaller than 10 acres.
Currently there is a hydroponic vegetable operation, no cannabis growing allowed on the property. Everyone thought that the $40M price was high even if the new owner was to win a future appeal to amend the zoning and offer to build state mandated housing units because there is a 29 acre AG parcel, 13 acres of greenhouses, 13 acres of crops/flowers, with a nice home on 3 acres down the street for sale at $20,500,000.
Instead of (immediate) development, the purchaser of the property was providing $40,000,000 of operating capital to the owner in a fairly simple purchase and 40 year hands off lease/back starting at $3,000,000 a year with annual adjustments made for inflation.
The new owners might soon apply for a loan based on land value plus cash flow and it will be up to the lender to decide if they agree with the valuation the owners have come up with. Its kind of like the opening ask in a negotiation, the lender can always do their own due diligence and say “pass” or yes, but we want different terms.
After the re-finance, the new owners will also probably tell the County of SB that they think the true current value of the land is not the $40M the county may have assessed the land at and provide a raft of supporting reasons why they think this way using the details of their agreement vs. the amount the nearby parcel sells for. The County assessor can do their due diligence, look through the paperwork and say yes or no based on their own assessment, they do not have to accept the owners argument.
I agree with steveg. Property valuation is a question of fact, which precludes summary judgment.
nk (2e7e52) — 10/2/2023 @ 2:19 pmI think it’s apples and oranges to compare Rush Limbaugh’s estate with MAL. MAL is a deed restricted private club, not a personal residence.
Source
A 1993 covenant limits the amount of time MAL can be used as a private residence, but apparently it has not been enforced.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 2:27 pmThe judge decided that Trump had made o attempt to be truthful based on his going the size of his apartment at Trump Tower as 3 times its real size but it may be that Trump had been lying about that for along time. He ls ignored the difference between value if rent controlled and not or zoning restrictions and not.
It is clear that Trump came up with the answer and then worked backwards.It is also probably true it actually didn’t matter to the people making the decision on the loan – but it may have mattered to their bosses or to company policy.
And nobody would ahev inbestigated something on which nobody lost money if he didntgointoolitis.And things may already have changed,.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/2/2023 @ 2:44 pmSo, is the court saying, as well, that the banks done well f’ed up too?
It takes two entities to sign off on a loan… the lender and customer.
Don’t lenders have underwriters and assessor on their own to ensure all proper risk mitigations are reviewed and signed off?
whembly (5f7596) — 10/2/2023 @ 2:50 pmGive a dog a bad name …
… and he will pay a $250 million fine and lose his business licenses.
Trump is on trial for being Trump, and whose fault is that?
nk (2e7e52) — 10/2/2023 @ 2:50 pmSource
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 2:54 pmAnd I wouldn’t crow about Trump’s lawyer’s “failure” to demand trial by jury. Trial by jury may not available in New York State for this type of case, regardless of the box in the appearance form, and checking it would have been nothing more than gaucherie.
nk (2e7e52) — 10/2/2023 @ 2:55 pmSeems pretty clear to me:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 3:03 pmThat’s for cases at law. There are no juries in equity (except in 1980s TV shows), and when a case involves both equitable and monetary relief, equity rules prevails under the doctrine of equitable cleanup. And this case does not strike me as either, but rather as what is known as quasi-criminal, a violation of statutory law with civil penalties, and trial by jury is not usually available there either.
nk (7f5f4a) — 10/2/2023 @ 3:24 pmAnd who says that Trump does not think ahead?
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/6/26/21299267/first-step-act-trump-joseph-miedzianowski-richard-bailey-larry-hoover-marvel-thompson-paul-schiro
nk (7f5f4a) — 10/2/2023 @ 3:34 pmI seriously doubt that. Changing the minimum age is a direct breach of Article II, Section 1.
What, exactly, is the minimum age set for Electors?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 3:37 pmToo bad New York is a hard “no” when it comes to televising trials. Must see TV!
Star chamber.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 3:38 pmGoing by the GOP majority in the House, Putin’s propaganda efforts are working. Sigh.
TBF, Brezhnev had similar luck with the Democrats.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 3:39 pmI agree with steveg. Property valuation is a question of fact, which precludes summary judgment.
And, after the Trump Organization is dismembered, maybe they’ll win that on appeal.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 3:43 pmTrump is on trial for being Trump, and whose fault is that?
Those other billionaires ought to think twice before challenging the establishment system.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 3:44 pmLOL!
Her “threat” reminds me of this.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 3:44 pmLOL! They are the establishment system.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 3:45 pmHe ignored the difference between value if rent controlled and not or zoning restrictions and not.
Courts say that rent control isn’t a taking, so the valuaiton should be the same, right?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 3:45 pmThose other billionaires ought to think twice before challenging the establishment system.
Operating from inside enemy territory.
nk (a50e8b) — 10/2/2023 @ 3:55 pmTrump Loses It in Iowa:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 3:55 pmMonmouth University Poll 10/2/23
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 4:17 pmThere are two factors that negatively affect the market value of Trump’s Mount Vermin property:
(1) it’s on the National Historic Register, meaning that it can’t be demolished, plus and no substantive architectural changes to the building can be made (although it could be expanded), and
(2) by law, the country club cannot be converted to residential or other uses.
Because of this, it pretty much has to be valued as a beach club in its existing use. Absent comparable sales of similar country clubs, you’re left with running an Income Approach and, in my experience, these types of facilities have high expense ratios, anywhere from 60% to 80% of total revenues. We’d have to see his operating statements on the club to know for sure, and I doubt we’ll ever actually know.
I’ll also note that, in 2020, Trump objected to an assessed value of $26 million as being too high.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/2/2023 @ 4:37 pmIrrelevant.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/2/2023 @ 4:39 pmThe Gaetz clown show is officially a sh-t show.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/2/2023 @ 5:06 pmWe are borrowing the money to finance the War in Ukraine. I am in favor of continuing, but it is a fair criticism by the GOP
steveg (26381e) — 10/2/2023 @ 6:32 pmI’d say that in my world, it is easier to convert a club to single family home than vice versa, but I very much thank you for sharing your expertise (Paul, I mean that very sincerely. Hard to convey in writing). Mar a Lago is a very unique property and the value really is what someone would pay for it for whatever their dream is. I think the Beach club, pool area of Mar a Lago is probably worth around $20 some million from one point of view (as a club, revenues are taxable under other rules) and valued way more if it was demo’d and converted to single family residence. If I was to borrow money against the beach club, I’d want to borrow at the value it would have for sale, but be taxed at current beach club business value. In this case the business would actually reduce value below land with grandfathered structure, pool, infrastructure
I am currently working on a property that was purchased for about $55M but is comprised of three parcels that have been united into one compound. The pool house became the gym, pool was removed, the guest house was demo’d and rebuilt, the TV studio/guest house/office/man cave at 5000 sf is now the pool house/other guest house with new and larger pool, The main house is completely renovated, expanded, and the pond was demo’d, removed and reconfigured. Because the compound is made up of three parcels, the accountants are carefully figuring costs per parcel to mitigate property taxes, but no doubt if they want to refinance (can’t see why, the owners have a huge revenue steam that should survive a recession) but if they did refinance, I am sure they would use the entirety of the property and the valuations would not be the same as the valuations for tax assessment. Having a structure denoted as a historical landmark is a challenge but what would be important is if the other 13 acres can be developed in any way. Usually the structure and maybe the gardens are the historical landmark, not the property. If you look at a birds eye view of the property there is a lot of room for additions
steveg (26381e) — 10/2/2023 @ 7:06 pmSounds like we both have a little experience in real estate, steve.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/2/2023 @ 7:29 pmIt may be fair to value the club and a reasonable amount of land for operating the club, and do a separate valuation on the excess land. Still, they’re still stuck with the club-only use restriction.
@278 remember the republican islolationists of the 1930’s that aided hitler?
asset (08c4fe) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:46 pm@306 ukraine borrowing is chump change compared to what will have to be borrowed if putin wins. @305 trump supporters don’t care as long as he hates and wants to get even with the same people they do. When you look into the abyss the abyss looks into you. Nietzsche.
asset (08c4fe) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:56 pm@299 soros has challenged pretty successfully.
asset (08c4fe) — 10/2/2023 @ 9:01 pmI think Jamaal Bowman should be punished for the lie that insults all of our intelligence
steveg (26381e) — 10/2/2023 @ 10:49 pmWhat games? My comment practically screamed, “Click the link!” I obfuscated nothing and expected no one to be fooled. If you couldn’t restrain yourself until you got home, that’s on you.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/2/2023 @ 10:56 pm@312 punish away ;however republicans in congress know what happens to them when we get back in control. If expelled he would just get re-elected and mccarthy needs george santos. In the next congress the squad not corporate stooges like nancy pelosi will be dealing with the oppressors.
asset (08c4fe) — 10/3/2023 @ 1:34 amThere is a long history of black men being wrongfully accused of misbehavior towards fire alarms.
nk (e4a078) — 10/3/2023 @ 6:32 amJamal Bowman only borrowed the fire alarm by accident.
He just picked it up to look at it and absent-mindedly put it in his pocket.
He was going to pay for it but somehow overlooked it at the checkout counter.
He thought he had already reserved it from Citi Alarm and then the pregnant nurse showed up and said she had rented it.
He is a member of the Audubon Society and the unleashed fire alarm was scaring away the birds.
It was not a violent crime.
He is entitled to it for reparations.
@313
No.
What you did was purposely obfuscated a tweet from Pat, our host, by saying “one person’s” instead of including his name. Patterico is shorter than “one person’s”, so I don’t believe this was done innocuously on your part.
Do better.
Again, though, my sentiment remains the same.
If Pat, or anyone else, doesn’t want Trump to be the nominee… it’s incumbent on the anti-Trumpers to make the case to convince the primary voters to vote otherwise.
I’m not voting for Trump in the primary.
I’m encouraging the folks in my circle to vote for DeSantis.
I’m looking to be part of the DeSantis campaign in Missouri, actively participating in the process for the first time in my life with whatever they need (canvassing, poll watching, whatever).
So, when our esteemed host tweeted:
This is not making the convincing case to vote as he wishes.
I will crawl over broken glass and disagree with him, and any like minded posters as vehemently as possible.
While I really, really don’t want another Trump administration. I cannot, and I will not ignore the absolute ‘civic disaster’ and ‘trainwreck’ perpetuated by modern Democrats.
If you were a former Republican who cannot vote for Trump because of such animus you hold against him, I understand.
But, you won’t be able to convince me and many GOP voters to tactically vote against Trump during the General Election, as I 100% vastly prefer the ‘Trump trainwreck’ over the destructive polices of today’s Democrats.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/3/2023 @ 7:07 amAnd that is why I called him a troll.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/3/2023 @ 7:58 amhttps://hotair.com/karen-townsend/2023/10/03/texas-democrat-rep-henry-cuellar-carjacked-in-washington-d-c-n582010
Hahahahahaahahaha.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/3/2023 @ 7:59 amWe are borrowing money to finance everything.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/3/2023 @ 10:55 amMorning Consult Republican Primary Tracking Poll-10/3/23
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/3/2023 @ 11:07 amLOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/3/2023 @ 11:21 amThat’s a lie. The point of my post was to contrast how differently some people might respond to the same “vote Biden” tweet based on who they think wrote it. That point obviously requires revealing the identity of the author, not obfuscating it. I expected that would be self-evident to anyone who took the 10 seconds or so required to read what I wrote and linked. Apparently DRJ agreed. It didn’t occur to me anyone would out themselves as the Q.E.D. of my comment by recklessly replying without clicking the link. If I was guilty of anything, it was of giving you too much credit.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/3/2023 @ 5:48 pmOutside your fevered imagination, I’ve never tried to get anyone banned. On the contrary, I’ve repeatedly disclaimed any interest in doing anything of the sort. I consider the rules here to be between each commenter individually and the mods. Whether anyone who isn’t me has broken a rule is none of my business. Should a commenter attack me personally, as you do frequently, my recourse is to tell you how ignorant and obnoxious it is, not to go whining for your banishment.
You, on the other hand, are the king of dishes-it-out-but-can’t-take-it. You routinely name-call people (“leftist” “moby” “troll”) for simply disagreeing with you, then turn around and complain that substantive critiques of your opinions violate the rules. Reading it would give anyone who isn’t, as I believe Pat described you, “broken by partisanship,” whiplash.
My mention of you in my initial comment was obviously satirical. As I just explained to whembly, I was making a point about how differently some people might react if the author of the tweet wasn’t Pat. If I was trying to get anyone banned, why in the world would I post the link? Do you think I believe anyone here is so stupid that they’d knowingly call Pat a leftist or a moby? As usual, your tribal effusions only make sense in a world where all your perceived enemies are evil imbeciles. What a dark world that must be.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/3/2023 @ 5:51 pmProving my point. Your fevered imagination had to write a dissertation to excuse your partisan behavior and attempt to get people banned. It even fooled DRJ. But I expect as much from you and it’s why I called you on it.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/3/2023 @ 7:04 pmNice word salad.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/3/2023 @ 8:02 pmWe’re hearing about the Trump Tower penthouse and Mar-a-Lago because they’re glamorous and easily understood.
We are not hearing about the overvaluation of Trump’s business properties written off, after he had bankrupted them, to the tune of nearly $1 billion, because net operating loss is not as glamorous or as easily understood.
Even if the full $250 million fine is imposed, Trump will still come out ahead, with the taxes he avoided and the creditors he stiffed.
nk (1dfe28) — 10/4/2023 @ 6:52 amI read this, and can only wish…
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/4235818-the-trump-collapse-is-coming-and-hes-taking-biden-down-with-him/
#NoneOfTheAbove2024
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 10/4/2023 @ 7:00 am@323 lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/3/2023 @ 5:48 pm
No lurker, you can’t spin this away.
This is classic bad faith posting on a forum that most of us is trying to have an open dialogue.
This is how you flush a forum/community down the crapper.
whembly (5f7596) — 10/4/2023 @ 7:38 amWhat, exactly, is the minimum age set for Electors?
Irrelevant.
Not when someone suggests you can’t set one.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 8:30 amLOL! More wish casting.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 8:34 amI would presume it would be same as the voting age.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 8:35 am@278 remember the republican islolationists of the 1930’s that aided hitler?
Remember the Hollywood writers in the in930s, 1940s and 1950s that aided Stalin? Dalton Trumbo got everything coming to him for his slavish devotion to the CPUSA and willingness to create propaganda for the Soviet Union. Such as his abrupt turn from anti-fascist to anti-interventionist during the Soviet-Nazi Non-Aggression Pact period, and his abrupt switch back when the Nazis invaded Russia.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-bryan-cranstons-trumbo-whitewashes-stalinism
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 8:42 amI would presume it would be same as the voting age.
The point is that the Constitution leaves this up to the states almost entirely, only stating that federal office-holders cannot be Electors.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 8:44 amThe subject was presidents, not Electors, but Article I Section 2 states that “Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature”.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/4/2023 @ 8:46 amWishcasting:
What would really really make me forgive the GOP for its sins would be a third impeachment, following Trump’s felony convictions, with an eye to barring him from office, and a subsequent conviction in the Senate. There are a lot of GOP Senators who are not on the ballot in 2024, and others, like Romney, who aren’t running again.
How many felonies are too many?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 8:48 amAnd the 17th Amendment states, “The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.”
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/4/2023 @ 8:50 ambut Article I Section 2 states
Those “Electors” are simply the set of citizens who may vote for members of the House of Representatives. Different than Presidential Electors.
The rule for Presidential Electors is contained in Article II, Section 1:
(emphasis mine)
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 8:54 am@337: And again, not the same as Presidential Electors.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 8:54 amThe term “Elector” in Article I should be read as “Voter” in elections for the House, and similarly in Amendment 17 for direct elections for the Senate. In direct federal elections, the Constitution is quite clear that Congress controls the elections. In the case of Presidential elections, the Constitution is also clear that the state legislatures (and perhaps state courts) control those elections.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 9:01 amI’m still not caring, Kevin, because I was talking about presidents, not Electors.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/4/2023 @ 9:04 amSo, you intend to ignore the relevant facts. Fine.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 9:05 amIn my state, the voters do not even control which electors are selected. Or at least won’t if a few more states join the popular vote compact. The legislature will award the electors to the candidate that they believe has the most popular votes nationally regardless of whether that candidate prevailed in the state (or was even on the state’s ballot). So, it is unreasonable to argue that the names printed on the state ballot are in any real way meaningful.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 9:10 amIn MAGAWorld Trump’s felony indictments are a badge of honor.
A third impeachment is more wish casting because the Republican House would never do such a thing. One McCarthy’s sins was never having the House vote to overturn Trump’s previous impeachments.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 9:16 amLike I said.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/4/2023 @ 9:20 amA third impeachment is more wish casting because the Republican House would never do such a thing. One McCarthy’s sins was never having the House vote to overturn Trump’s previous impeachments.
His “sins” were not a problem for 208 of 221 GOP House members. McCarthy received standing ovations from all but this tiny faction that does not belong in the Caucus in the first place.
When Trump is convicted under the Espionage Act, and is found guilty of a criminal conspiracy in GA, MAGA may be thrilled, but there are quite a few GOP House members who will be looking at electoral disaster. I’d guess somewhere between 30 and 50. It will, of course, depend on the final resolution of the Speaker election, but it’s quite a bit more likely that the next Speaker will be to the Left of McCarthy than to the Right.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 9:27 amFor a slightly different of “At Least No Tree Died”:
Hey, “experts”! What about the wrong numbers, scams, spams, and pollsters that call just about every phone every day? Do you think that people with hidden safety phones have not been ahead of you for as long as they have had those phones?
nk (aca288) — 10/4/2023 @ 9:29 amhttps://news.yahoo.com/judge-may-delay-trump-hush-165325417.html
Good idea. Trump might win that one, the case is so weak. Pleading it out to a few misdemeanors would probably be wise.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 9:54 amHey, “experts”! What about the wrong numbers, scams, spams, and pollsters that call just about every phone every day? Do you think that people with hidden safety phones have not been ahead of you for as long as they have had those phones?
They might have them just turned to “silent”, which won’t help here.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 9:55 amIf you are in favor of law and order — as I am — you will be sorry about crimes committed against any law-abiding citizen, but particularly a decent man like Congressman Cuellar:
(Among other things, Cuellar opposes abortion.)
Jim Miller (b78b3c) — 10/4/2023 @ 10:47 amSo far the only candidates are Jim Jordan and Majority Leader Steve Scalise. Anyone to the “left” of McCarthy won’t get any votes from the conservatives in the Republican Study Committee, for example, which includes 167 of the 221 Republican members (75.5%). They far outnumber the House Freedom Caucus.
Anyone “left” of McCarthy is a Democrat.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 11:05 am@328, it’s difficult to predict how Trump’s legal morass will unfold, but the author certainly makes plausible points. The great unknown will be unforeseen delays, but there is an avalanche coming. Neither the financial fraud case nor the civil defamation case look promising for Trump. It won’t make him look strong or imposing to continue his legal losing streak going into the early primaries. The fraud case also cuts to Trump’s marketing identity as smart about business. In actuality, he cheats and gets caught….which doesn’t appear very smart.
Yes, voters will start to vote, but how reliable are today’s polls at forecasting unprecedented political events playing out still almost four months away. The run-up to the March case dealing with Trump’s attempt to steal the election with fraudulent electors will pile on negative publicity that just can’t be wished away. I’m not convinced yet that most Republicans will volunteer to go down with Trump….and sacrifice 2024 to personality worship. Yes he has his base, but everyone has his limit and selling J6 as a nothing-burger is tough. Then we move to May and the classified documents case. What exactly is the defense?
Will right-wing media start to hedge its bets? Will the GOP opposition start to break through about his unelectability? Will Trump get more and more unhinged as negative verdicts come in? It’s anyone’s guess but a collapse is not implausible.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/4/2023 @ 11:24 amI’ll believe it when Trump’s popularity and his lead over the Republican primary field dips into low 40s.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 11:50 amAs I have posted before, Trump could win the nomination by the time his election subversion trial is over.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 11:52 amLast comment, Kevin. In WA State in 2016, we had four faithless Electors that chose Colin Powell and Faith Spotted Eagle instead of Hillary, despite her winning the popular vote. The state changed the rules after that. End of story.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/4/2023 @ 11:52 amThat’s his federal election subversion trial, there is no date for the Georgia trial.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 11:53 amI’ll believe it when Trump’s popularity and his lead over the Republican primary field dips into low 40s.
And I might — mind you, “might” — believe a poll that has “No opinion” as a choice.
nk (aca288) — 10/4/2023 @ 1:03 pmMost polls have a no opinion/don’t know option. It’s just the number is low.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 1:08 pmThought I’d report that 3 hours into the activation of the chips in our vaccine doses, I think the Biden, Fetterman, McConnell reboots are still doing that weird spinning Windows OS “circling the bowl” thing
steveg (ddc4f1) — 10/4/2023 @ 2:30 pmAJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/4/2023 @ 11:24 am
More like unhedge its bets. They are hedged now.
It’s going the other way. They are conceding his electability.
He’s getting more unhinged already. Claimed the top court clerk was the “girlfriend” of Senator Chuck Schumer and posted a picture of the two together as proof. The judge reprimanded him, ordered the post taken down and made a partial gag order not to say anything (or is it attack?) his staff.
Focus on the Ukraine issue, especially Biden’s claim to have fired the prosecutor, could cause the collapse of both Trump and Biden.
Except that Trump will try to be on both sides of Ukraine aid issue.
Maybe take the Goldwater position on Vietnam: Either try to ein the war, or get out.
The MAGA position is getting to resemble the freshman caucus and Democratic position on aid to South Vietnam in 1975 – there were no U.S. troops involved then either, but they wanted to “end the war.”
And then there’s the proposed war in Mexico. Treat cartels like ISIS and trhe Mexican government like a failed state..
Sammy FInkelman (7a85f9) — 10/4/2023 @ 2:43 pmThe imaginary chips are supposed to be like the ones put in pets. Except nobody is doing that.
Sammy FInkelman (7a85f9) — 10/4/2023 @ 2:44 pmLOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 3:11 pmBased on that standard, the US is not in the war.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 3:12 pmSo far the only candidates are Jim Jordan and Majority Leader Steve Scalise
Jim Jordan is a non-starter with the rank & file. Scalise would have to make all kinds of promises to get the Gaetz faction to agree and he can’t do that without losing 50 other votes.
This will go on until 1) The Gaetz people stop their demands or 2) the successful speaker can get some Democrat votes. There is really no other way.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 4:48 pmLast comment, Kevin. In WA State in 2016, we had four faithless Electors that chose Colin Powell and Faith Spotted Eagle instead of Hillary, despite her winning the popular vote. The state changed the rules after that. End of story.
Those rules are meaningless. The Constitution gives them complete agency, as does the 1st Amendment. Nowhere odes the state have the right to command their votes, they can only select them.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 4:50 pmThe imaginary chips are supposed to be like the ones put in pets.
1) The chips in pets have no power; they only respond to a large and nearby radio signal. They store the energy up and bounce back a canned sequence of bits.
2) It should be looked at as an electronic bar code that you have to be withing 1 foot to read. It is not addressable and it can perform no computations or other functions.
3) It is also about 100 times larger than will fit through a hypodermic needle.
4) There are efficient tracking chips. I have designed an ASIC for one. It is perhaps possible to implant someone with one of these, along with a battery, but NOT by stealth and NOT by a vaccine hypodermic. It would also be rather expensive.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 4:58 pmSammy
One of my clients told me that some folks were of the opinion that the test of the warning system today was a fake, with the real goal being to activate the chip that was supposedly put in the mRNA vaccines.
I had not heard that, but the internet sure does make it easy for like minded(?) people can find each other and share ideas
I do believe this test was a deep state attempt to reboot Fetterman, Biden. McConnell and to see if they could resurrect Feinstein from the dead but lets keep that between you and me OK?
steveg (a94b34) — 10/4/2023 @ 5:02 pmwhembly (5f7596) — 10/4/2023 @ 7:38 am
You didn’t even try to contradict what I said because every word of it is true. Instead you baselessly accused me of bad faith. That’s how you flush a forum/community down the crapper.
Here’s another one of those nasty obfuscations, or as most people would call it, a “link”/a>:
Before you go telling that author to “stick it where the sun don’t shine, maybe this time click the link.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/4/2023 @ 5:04 pmAny Republican who tries to become speaker with Democrat votes will be the next to be “vacated”; and any Democrat that votes for a Republican speaker will be primaried. Just because McCarthy got booted doesn’t mean Gaetz won’t try it again.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 5:05 pmRats. Dropped html tag. One more try:
whembly (5f7596) — 10/4/2023 @ 7:38 am
You didn’t even try to contradict what I said because every word of it is true. Instead you baselessly accused me of bad faith. That’s how you flush a forum/community down the crapper.
Here’s another one of those nasty obfuscations, or as most people would call it, a link:
Before you go telling that author to “stick it where the sun don’t shine,” maybe this time click the link.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/4/2023 @ 5:10 pmThe federal government is being mean to Donnie.
nk (c4b8f2) — 10/4/2023 @ 5:24 pmMcCarthy had a chance to shut it down.
He did not do it.
It’s that simple, comrades, and everything else is ascribing too much character and sensibility to Trump’s gerbils.
Gallup:
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 5:29 pmMore Republicans (58%) support a third party than support Donald Trump.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 5:29 pmAny Republican who tries to become speaker with Democrat votes will be the next to be “vacated”;
The Caucus rules require a majority of the Caucus to approve to bring a vacate motion to the floor. McCarthy promised to ignore that rule; I doubt the next speaker will be so foolish. It is one of the reasons why the Gaetz cabal cannot succeed — no one is going to give them any power ever again.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 5:32 pmAny Republican that needs Democrat votes shouldn’t be a Republican speaker.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 5:40 pmLOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 5:41 pmIn the abstract. Wait until that third party actually starts to stand for something.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 5:45 pmMore on that third party support:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 5:58 pmGoing by this source, Kevin, the Constitution doesn’t say anything about it, let alone has agency, or that the 1st Amendment has anything to do with the matter.
The Supreme Court unanimously upheld WA State law under Chiafalo v. Washington, giving the state the authority to ban or replace faithless electors.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/4/2023 @ 6:37 pmA vote is speech in its most basic form. IF a vote is not protecte3d by the 1st Amendment, nothing is.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 6:39 pmNeither the U.S. Constitution nor federal statutes address the concept of “faithless electors.” This issue is reserved to the states.
The Federalist Papers address “faithless” electors, by denying there is any such thing. See Federalist 68, for example. The Founders intended the Electors to be free agents, not simple bearers of a ministerial duty.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 6:42 pmAll that he Constitution gives to the state is the method of choosing Electors. Compelling their votes is something that is outside the states’ (or Congress’) remit. The Electoral College is a co-equal, if momentary, branch of government subservient to no one, other than to the time and place of their meeting.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 6:46 pmI understand the need of some to make the Electoral College a vassal. Those who want to impose a popular vote regime absolutely require that the Electors have no agency. But that is not how the thing was constructed and to force it to behave differently is no less a coup than Trump attempted, although it will get better press.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 6:49 pmThe Supreme Court unanimously upheld WA State law under Chiafalo v. Washington, giving the state the authority to ban or replace faithless electors.
Well, they are wrong, and I do not see how they can claw back a vote after it is regularly given. Chiafalo does not give that power to the state, only the power to penalize an elector who disregards a pledge.
I think it is a terrible idea to make the Electors ministerial vassals. That the decision aligns their vote with those of the state’s voters does not make me happy, either, since the legislature could require them to vote for Donald Duck if it so chose. Or the winner of some purported popular vote total.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 6:56 pmThis is federalism, Kevin. If the Constitution doesn’t cover the matter, then it’s left to the states.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/4/2023 @ 7:28 pmI’m trying to work up some interest in who will become speaker of the house, but really, does it matter? Sure, Ukraine funding matters. A government shutdown matters, sort of. The Biden impeachment inquiry hangs in the balance…will we ever find that alleged $5M…winding its way through shell corporations and cutouts…always sadly just out of our grasp.
Democrats gave Gaetz his Pyrrhic victory. Now will his caucus kick him out? Will they ever put him in a meaningful position? The GOP may have to take the odious step of power sharing with the DEMs in order to cut Gaetz and the gang of eight out of a repeat performance. What’s that going to look like?
I see nothing noble from the DEMs. Sure, they’re invested in taking advantage of the GOP dysfunction. It would be malpractice had they not voted McCarthy out. But was it good for the country…was it good for the institution…was it good for Ukraine…or the border? Seems to me that the DEMs chose the short-term gotcha over taking the high road and earning some leverage with McCarthy. How delicious it could have been to see Gaetz slapped down with a 300+ vote to retain McCarthy. But alas, not in the cards.
It’s hard to shed a tear for McCarthy. He made an unusual speech afterwards that started on the high road but found its way back to the clown car. Well, if anyone deserves to rant…no matter how predictable the storyline emerged.
Scalise vs. Jim Jordan versus ??? Jordan will try to cut Ukraine spending…in the face of 300+ support. Hopefully that gets a hard “no”. Scalise is battling blood cancer. Is this really the time to ratchet up his stress and workload? Hern? Emmer? Arrington? Stefanik? Well, what do we want until Nov 2024 might be the better question. Some sort of border legislation would be nice, though it might steal the thunder from the campaign. Still, probably good for the country though. Democracy needs a win. We need to show the world that we can still self govern. My optimism is low….
AJ_Liberty (5495b4) — 10/4/2023 @ 7:28 pmOnly once in past 70 years has a member of one party voted for the Speaker candidate of another:
Source
So it is highly unlikely that any Democrats will vote for a Republican Speaker (or vice versa). It’s the Republicans problem.
Rip Murdock (6afd61) — 10/4/2023 @ 7:48 pmGuess who’s Code Pink’s new BFF.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/5/2023 @ 1:35 am@388 This is why I am not a pacifist. I agree with code pink when they are right and disagree with them when they are wrong. Henry David Thoreau opposed the mexican war and yet said sharp’s rifles were never used in a better cause on John Brown’s raid on harpers ferry. Vietnam, grenada Iraq and afganistan were wrong WW II and Ukraine are right.
asset (c6b5c7) — 10/5/2023 @ 1:50 am“I’ll believe it when Trump’s popularity and his lead over the Republican primary field dips into low 40s.”
https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/nikki-haley-rises-second-pair-early-state-gop-polls-rcna118886
Haley with momentum from the debates, even if the debates were ill managed and missed the point. No good news for team Trump. Guilty of financial fraud. Defamation suit part 2 approaching. Georgia trials of associates starting this month. Gag orders being considered. Breaking the hold of a cult takes time. As much as people have been programmed to like…even love…Trump, his aura is based on being a winner….and there’s no longer winning. There’s a bunch of oldsters wearing retro Trump gear, reliving the magic of 2016. It’s doomed to collapse….
AJ_Liberty (5495b4) — 10/5/2023 @ 4:30 amHas Congressman Bowman been arrested for his insurrection yet? How about for obstructing an offical proceeding?
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/5/2023 @ 4:34 amhttps://hotair.com/tree-hugging-sister/2023/10/04/magical-joe-9b-in-student-debt-poof-n582448
Biden violates the law again, but silence from the usual suspects.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/5/2023 @ 4:51 amCodePink is in bed with the ChiComs, which means Marge is right there with ’em. She is a dumb, foolish loudmouth.
Just like in the aughts during the Iraq War, Code Pink isn’t so much anti-war, but anti-American.
In a recent event, where Code Pink called for end of Putin’s War Against Ukraine, not a single Ukrainian was invited. Way to go, Marge.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/5/2023 @ 6:36 amWhere was the violence? As defined*, an insurrection requires violence.
He pulled the alarm in an office building across the street from the Capitol, not at the Capitol itself, so what did his act obstruct, exactly? That said, he should be prosecuted for his illegal act.
* “a violent uprising against an authority or government”
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/5/2023 @ 6:45 amMost will find this Ramirez cartoon cheering. (Though that Florida fellow may not.)
Jim Miller (58eab2) — 10/5/2023 @ 7:07 amHroza lost one-sixth of its population today because of Putin’s terrorist missile attack. The moral case for sending aid to help Ukraine defend itself should be easy, but Jim Jordan has already said that he won’t send any aid if elected Speaker.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/5/2023 @ 8:07 amThis is why the Dems’ choice to vote against McCarthy (instead of “present”) was a dumb and counterproductive decision.
Touché; I should have been more clear that I meant “I’ll believe it when Trump’s popularity and his lead over the Republican primary field dips into low 40s.in the national polls”, where Trump is currently leading the field with 61% (and +54 over Haley.) Trump in NH is still +30 over Haley and +34 in SC.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/5/2023 @ 9:30 amMost of Trump’s trials will not puncture the balloon of MAGAWorld, and will occur after Super Tuesday, when it is possible he will have secured the nomination. The Espionage Act and Georgia trials have not been scheduled, and testimony in the election subversion trial won’t start until after Super Tuesday. No one cares about the E. Jean Carroll lawsuit and the current financial fraud civil trial will be under appeal for the next decade.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/5/2023 @ 9:35 amThe first Georgia trial, of Sidney Powell and Kenneth Cheesbro. will start very soon (October 23) and be televised, and excerpts may be shown on news broadcasts and also “debunked” and criticized by right wing talk radio and some cable TV programs.
The prosecutors will attempt to show all crimes charged were part of a RICO conspiracy to overturn the election results. The idea is that once something is a conspiracy, anyone who does anything to further the conspiracy is guilty of joining an illegal conspiracy.
Sidney Powell’s main individual offense in this case (she did lots of other things) is planning the “inspection”, in violation of Georgia law, but with the permission of the local election officials, of election equipment in Coffey County, Georgia.
This caused Brad Raffensperger to throw out all equipment they touched.
Kenneth Cheesbro is accused of coming up with the substitute electors scheme – his defense is that he was merely giving legal or other advice – the Georgia connection may be the false statements signed by their alternate electors that they were elected.
Sammy FInkelman (c5132f) — 10/5/2023 @ 12:10 pm396. Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/5/2023 @ 8:07 am
I don’t think the Democratic leadership really cares about anything except wining elections.
Democrats were divided, but went along with Jeffries. Ultimately they decided not to save McCarthy because, first, lingering resentment over his making up with Trump after January 6, and second because his word, or his promises, were, they said, unreliable. At their caucus before the vote some members rose up to tell tale after tale of McCarthy not sticking by his promises.
Kevin McCarthy resents Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer not backing him up as, at one time, they seemed to say that they would.
Sammy FInkelman (c5132f) — 10/5/2023 @ 12:18 pmAJ_Liberty (5495b4) — 10/4/2023 @ 7:28 pm
The idea being bruited about is raising the threshold for raising the question to say 10, or even 44. The idea being that while Democrats will not protect a Republican Speaker, they won’t put their names on a proposal to start the process in the first place. There’s no tradition of making the equivalent of a motion of no confidence in the U.S. House of Representatives.
Sammy FInkelman (c5132f) — 10/5/2023 @ 12:24 pmnk @4 Biden is a strong President. He has control of his party.
I think it’s more like his party has control of him – or he almost always pulls back to what the left wing of his party wants. And that’s about the best you can hope for. A person whose instincts are moderate but who tries to stay in the good graces of the left.
)It’s been that way for a long time.
Unfortunately, he’s also an incompetent executive..
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/5/2023 @ 2:02 pmBy the way, Russia has withdrawn most ofits ships from te naval base it has in Crimea – to ports in Russia and more minor ports in Crimea.
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/5/2023 @ 2:18 pmLOL! Why would the Democrats agree, and what would be their price? One price would be to end the Biden’s impeachment.
Not.gonna.happen.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/5/2023 @ 2:21 pmUnlike Republicans.
Comedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/5/2023 @ 2:22 pmWhat was the evidence the Democrats were divided? In the end they were far more unified than the Republicans.
You don’t think the impeachment investigation had anything to do with it.
LOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/5/2023 @ 2:23 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/5/2023 @ 2:23 pm
hey tried to postpone the vote.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/02/us/politics/democrats-mccarthy-speaker.html
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/5/2023 @ 2:28 pmWhy is the responsibility of Democrats to bail out the House Republican Conference? I’m sure they can figure it out who should be speaker on their own. The are the majority party, after all.
And as I have posted before, no representative has ever voted for the opposing party’s choice for speaker, save once in 2001. And that representative ended up without any committee assignments.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/5/2023 @ 2:32 pmWhat happened in the end is what counted. The Democrats were disciplined, the Republicans weren’t. Again, why was the responsibility of the Democrats to bail McCarthy out of a problem of is own making?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/5/2023 @ 2:35 pmAn artificial unity.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/03/us/politics/democrats-hakeem-jeffries-mccarthy.html
Here is a specific dissenting opinion:
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/5/2023 @ 2:38 pmDemocrats playing hardball for a change. I like it! The left is gaining more and more power in democrat caucus.
asset (879403) — 10/5/2023 @ 3:53 pm