Patterico's Pontifications

9/29/2023

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 8:24 am



[guest post by Dana]

I’m traveling, so this will be brief.

Let’s go!

First news item

House Speaker, who made concession after concession, including a “motion to vacate,” is now under fire, as Republicans consider other candidates to fill the position.

Second news item

Yet again, a government shutdown is looming as Congress is at an impasse regarding the best way to keep the government funded.

Third news item

Sen. Diane Feinstein passes away at 90. RIP.

Fourth news item

Chew on this:

“The only explanation for either folly is actually the explanation for both of them: they both flow out of the explicit and adamant demands of a calculating and narcissistic Donald Trump.

“Trump has repeatedly called for Republicans to shut down the government as the ‘last chance’ to stop the four ‘political prosecutions’ against him on 91 different criminal charges. He and his sycophants would gladly deny paychecks to more than a million service members and strip food assistance from millions of women and children on the off-chance Trump could delay having to face juries of his peers for dozens of alleged criminal offenses.

“Similarly, Trump is explicitly threatening his House followers to impeach President Biden because Trump was himself impeached. ‘They did it to us,’ he says. But that is not the constitutional standard, which refers to treason, bribery and other high crimes and misdemeanors…

“The GOP’s opposition to Trump’s impeachment was a tragedy. The GOP’s support for Biden’s impeachment is a farce.”

Fifth news item

Russia seems to confirm that the invasion of Ukraine wasn’t about NATO, it was about restoring Russian empire.

Sixth news item

In light of “more than half of House Republicans” vote against $300 million in aid to Ukraine:

A notable milestone. A shocking turn of history, the modern GOP.

Have a great weekend.

—Dana

412 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Happy Friday!

    Dana (aac8e9)

  2. In light of “more than half of House Republicans” vote against $300 million in aid to Ukraine:

    That’s very disappointing. Here is the breakdown of votes. I’ll grant that there are some libertarian types, like my old schoolmate (I don’t really know him) Thomas Massie, who are principled libertarians and don’t believe that the U.S. should be participating even remotely in overseas conflicts, and I’m sure there are some others in the GOP caucus who would have voted no had Donald Trump been President and supported this bill. But of course there are a bunch of opportunistic Republicans who think that this is either sticking it to the Europeans or to the Biden Administration or whatever, and that is contemptible.

    By the same token though, I am struck by the fact that Democrats voted 210-0 in support, with two Dems (Bush of Missouri and Peltola of Alaska) not voting. This means that Rosa DeLauro, Raul Grijalva, Primala Jayapal, Barbara Lee, our Adorably Onery & Clueless niece, Ilhan Omar, Ayanna Pressley, Jan Schakowsky, Adam Schiff, Rashida Tlaib, and the rest of the nasty partisans on that side all voted in favor. There is absolutely no way you will ever convince me that this group — and many other Dems — would have voted for this bill had Donald Trump or Ron DeSantis or Nikki Haley or any other Republican been President and expressed support for this. So our major problem is that we seem to have a bunch of jerkoffs in Congress whose votes on important issues are largely based upon political posturing. I have no respect for any of them.

    JVW (66b3ed)

  3. …..whose votes on important issues are largely based upon political posturing.

    I’m shocked!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  4. Biden is a strong President. He has control of his party.

    McCarthy is a hangnail on Trump’s pinky, and Trump is a traitor who would sell out America for a second slice of chocolate cake.

    nk (bb1548)

  5. While Gov. Newsom has said he will appoint a black woman to replace Feinstein, he has also said his appointee will only be a caretaker for the next year.

    It is unclear whom Mr. Newsom might pick to fill Ms. Feinstein’s seat. The names that have been discussed, since Ms. Feinstein said earlier this year that she would not run again, include Shirley Weber, the California secretary of state; Holly Mitchell, a Los Angeles county supervisor; and Angela Glover Blackwell, a civil rights lawyer in Oakland and the founder of PolicyLink, a research and advocacy nonprofit group.

    An out of the box choice would be Michelle Obama, since there are no residency requirements for the job.

    😉

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  6. Trump is a traitor who would sell out America for a second slice of chocolate cake.

    More like for a second scoop of ice cream.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  7. “Trump is explicitly threatening his House followers to impeach President Biden because Trump was himself impeached. ‘They did it to us,’ he says. But that is not the constitutional standard, which refers to treason, bribery and other high crimes and misdemeanors…”

    Jamie Raskin, being the election denier of 2016, would be very invested in countering the “they did it to us” argument. But, they (and he in particular) did do it to us, and expected us to lay back and enjoy it. And years from now, when indictments against a democrat are used as a campaign strategy, we’ll hear more of this kind of nonsense from Raskin, and others who, yes absolutely, “did it to us.” The race to the bottom is on!

    As for a “jury of his peers”, note that Judge Chutkan put immense thought into Trump’s motion to recuse herself for prejudicial comments she had made and, surprisingly (sarc), swatted it down. A change of venue request will get the same deep consideration. The case against Trump is so rock solid, according to those who are scared sh_tless to move it out of a district which voted more than 90% against Trump, and who stands most to lose from his “drain the swamp” intentions. An actual jury of his peers is exactly what his opponents fear the most.

    As for Ukraine’s border security, at this (early) stage we’re already spending well over ten times what Trump requested for our own border security. The hand wringing about $10 billion for the wall and that “Mexico will pay for it” seems so quaint now. Eagle Pass and El Paso isn’t worth that much, but Ukraine? Over $100 billion? No problem! And Russia’s defeat will pay for it. Yes. If scrutinizing what we’re spending on Ukraine means one is a Putin stooge, then we can draw certain conclusions about those who question spending much less on a border wall. Fair enough. How about open borders lawlessness fan boys? Welcome to modern political discourse.

    lloyd (d0e146)

  8. An out of the box choice would be Michelle Obama, since there are no residency requirements for the job.

    😉

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 9:31 am

    Tears 😢 for Tuberville soundtrack hardest hit.

    BuDuh (88ee2b)

  9. Regarding Russian empire, Dana, Putin has been planning conquest and conflict for awhile, and he’s been setting the propaganda table in both books and film, as seen in this thread. The plots in both mediums are disturbing.
    And here’s another thread on Putinist propaganda for both domestic and foreign consumption.

    It’s possible that a majority House Republicans fell for Putin’s lies, or they’re getting their marching orders from the leader of the GOP cult. Either way, it’s the antithesis of the Party of Reagan, and it’s completely revolting that my party went in this direction.
    I’ll continue to note that Trump has made no demands to Putin that he end his unlawful unprovoked war-crime filled invasion.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  10. Yes, Paul, however we were told by many on the right (and far left) that this invasion was a reaction to the provocations of NATO and/or NATO expansion. A lot of us knew better, so now that Russian channels are admitting it, lays waste to the false claims.

    Dana (aac8e9)

  11. As for Ukraine’s border security…

    A multi-front invasion by a sovereign power against an independent sovereign state isn’t a “border security” issue, it’s a blatant and criminal act of war. It’s a bogus comparison to our problems at the southern border.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  12. As for a “jury of his peers”, note that Judge Chutkan put immense thought into Trump’s motion to recuse herself for prejudicial comments she had made and, surprisingly (sarc), swatted it down. A change of venue request will get the same deep consideration. The case against Trump is so rock solid, according to those who are scared sh_tless to move it out of a district which voted more than 90% against Trump, and who stands most to lose from his “drain the swamp” intentions. An actual jury of his peers is exactly what his opponents fear the most.

    The motion to recuse failed to meet the legal standard to do so.

    ………
    Trump’s defense can ask an appellate court to weigh in, but the standard for a federal appeals court or the U.S. Supreme Court to review the ruling is very high, requiring “clear and indisputable” proof a judge has failed her duty, and showing that assigning a new judge is “appropriate” considering all the circumstances and there is no adequate alternative.
    ……….
    A unanimous U.S. Supreme Court ruled in 1994 that “opinions formed” through court proceedings would require a judge to recuse from a case only if those opinions “display a deep-seated favoritism or antagonism that would make fair judgment impossible.”
    ………..
    The examples cited by Trump were simply arguments advanced by defendants and acknowledged by the judge, and “there’s nothing about her statements that would cause a reasonable person to believe that the judge is unable to be impartial in Trump’s case,” said former federal prosecutor and University of Michigan law professor Barbara McQuade.

    ………

    As far as a change of venue, there is long-standing precedent that would make that motion a loser too:

    …………
    If Trump files such a motion, he will almost certainly lose it—initially, at least. Under a U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia precedent set during the prosecutions stemming from the Nixon-era Watergate break-in, district judges defer such motions until after jury selection, at which time they will have a better sense of whether the ordinary tools for sifting out biased and emotional jurors during jury selection sufficed to guarantee the defendant a fair trial.

    If past is prelude, at the close of jury selection Trump will then lose his change of venue motion for a second time, when the judge will conclude that the weeks-long voir dire process—including written juror surveys; individualized questioning of each juror by the judge; juror removals (“strikes”) for cause by the judge upon attorneys’ motions; and a set number of arbitrary (“peremptory”) strikes that the defense lawyers and prosecutors are each accorded—were, in fact, sufficient to ensure a fair trial.
    ……….
    So far, the judges of the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia have had no trouble batting away motions to transfer venue brought by Jan. 6 defendants. As of last August, at least 11 judges had denied such motions in 15 rulings handed down in 14 criminal cases stemming from the Capitol insurrection.

    In every bid to transfer venue that Capitol riot defendants have raised, the key precedent the government has cited in response has been the same: Haldeman v. United States (as in H.R. Haldeman). ……… Haldeman is binding on the judges hearing criminal cases stemming from Jan. 6, who all sit on the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia.
    ………
    The D.C. Circuit suggested (in Haldeman) that transfers of venue would virtually never be required unless voir dire itself—that is, the jury selection process—turned up such a pervasive level of bias in the jury pool that it became obvious that an impartial jury simply could never be winnowed from it.
    ………
    In sum, a Trump motion to transfer venue out of Washington, D.C., is a long shot. If he is convicted and this becomes an appellate issue, prosecutors have little to fear so long as the case rises no higher than the D.C. Circuit. And even if it does rise higher, the Supreme Court precedents set extremely high bars for reversals based on failures to transfer venue.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  13. “The 1990s called, they want their foreign policy back.”

    ingot9455 (0e6d9a)

  14. Putin has one degree of deniability, Dana, because those “presenters” on Russian TV were spouting off. Putin can say he never said that stuff, although everything those talking heads are saying has Putin’s tacit stamp of approval in media that is completely under his control.

    We already know that Putin’s NATO excuses are actually excuses because he didn’t cite NATO expansion as his rationale for the 2014 invasions of the Crimean and Donbas regions.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  15. https://hotair.com/headlines/2023/09/28/new-comer-to-subpoena-bank-records-of-joe-biden-hunter-biden-n581177

    Getting there. Millions of dollars thanks to “his uncle’s brother” being the connection.

    NJRob (8943db)

  16. No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen. — Article I, Section 3.

    nk (bb1548)

  17. Wonder how Article I Section 3 applies to temporary gubernatorial appointments – ’cause they’re by definition not elected.

    Sam G (8d2ed1)

  18. No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen. — Article I, Section 3.

    nk (bb1548) — 9/29/2023 @ 10:48 am

    That says nothing about whether an appointed Senator needs to be a resident of the State, but my suggestion about Michelle Obama was with my tongue firmly in cheek.

    🤣

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  19. That says nothing about whether an appointed Senator needs to be a resident of the State, but my suggestion about Michelle Obama was with my tongue firmly in cheek.

    Ahem, ahem: I submit Meghan Markle Windsor of Montecito, CA as the next (appointed) United States Senator. There is nothing preventing her from breaking her promise and seeking the six-year term next November.

    JVW (447fb9)

  20. Many Republicans opposed Lend-Lease (to help the UK against the Nazis) in 1941. 135 against, 25 in favor.

    Sadly, history repeats.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  21. McCarthy is a hangnail on Trump’s pinky, and Trump is a traitor who would sell out America for a second slice of chocolate cake.

    McCarthy is a weather vane in a tornado. He has no principles, not even fealty to Trump. Just self-interest.

    He really only has two options now:

    1. Put up a Democrat-sponsored bill.
    2. Resign.

    He can do both.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  22. An out of the box choice would be Michelle Obama, since there are no residency requirements for the job.

    I expect him to appoint Jerry Brown.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  23. Trump is a traitor who would sell out America for a second slice of chocolate cake.

    A 10% off coupon at the knocking shop.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  24. A multi-front invasion by a sovereign power against an independent sovereign state isn’t a “border security” issue

    But targeted attacks against groups flooding poison into the US would be different. We use special forces all the flipping time and much further away from our own border often without the knowledge or permission of the host country.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  25. An out of the box choice would be Michelle Obama, since there are no residency requirements for the job.

    I expect him to appoint Jerry Brown.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 12:41 pm

    LOL!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  26. I submit Meghan Markle Windsor of Montecito, CA as the next (appointed) United States Senator.

    It might look like work, and really, she’s too shallow a person to serve in the Senate.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  27. I hear that Melissa has (again) renegotiated her prenup to get a sizable trust fund set aside for her son. Some discomfort about Donald’s financial woes.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  28. As for Ukraine’s border security, at this (early) stage we’re already spending well over ten times what Trump requested for our own border security.

    The fact that Democrats will not vote for security on the southern boarder does not mean that we should throw Ukraine to the wolves. It’s a stupid argument, actually.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  29. @18: An appointed Senator IS elected, just a very small electorate.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  30. So our major problem is that we seem to have a bunch of jerkoffs in Congress whose votes on important issues are largely based upon political posturing.

    Example #1:

    House Republicans failed to pass a stopgap government funding bill on Friday, leaving Kevin McCarthy with no clear next step to try to avert a shutdown in less than 36 hours.

    It’s an enormous blow to the speaker, who by bringing the vote to the floor essentially dared his hardliners to oppose the patch. He argued that voting against it essentially meant opposing border security. But conservatives called his bluff, with 21 Republicans helping Democrats sink the bill.
    ………
    It’s not clear what path House Republicans take from here. Some conservative lawmakers vowed that they will reject any short-term funding patch, further limiting McCarthy’s options. They’ve telegraphed their opposition for weeks, but some Republicans still privately hoped the right flank would ultimately cave. No more votes are expected in the chamber Friday.
    ……..
    Across the Capitol, the Senate is set to take a key procedural vote on Saturday, just hours before federal cash dries up, to advance its own bipartisan short-term funding fix that includes $6 billion for Ukraine and $6 billion in disaster aid. But any final passage vote likely won’t happen before the shutdown deadline.

    That bill, which would extend government funding through Nov. 17, has been panned by House Republicans. …….

    It’s unclear if McCarthy would even take up a Senate-passed stopgap with border provisions, however. Earlier Friday, the California Republican pledged he wouldn’t “surrender to the liberals,” slamming the Senate for its failure to pass any annual spending bills on the floor.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  31. @18: An appointed Senator IS elected, just a very small electorate.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 12:54 pm

    That would be up to the Senate to determine.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  32. I know it’s a radical and heretofore unvoiced concept, but how appointing someone based on the content of their character and not the color of their skin or the content of their undergarments?

    nk (bb1548)

  33. Anyway, questions to ponder: Will the fading DeSantis come out fighting like a real contender? Will Nikki Haley continue to break through and push on to the front of the debate pack? Will that walking contradiction Vivek Ramaswamy spout more nonsense and yet still charm voters? Will Mike Pence find his voice, and realize that it’s 2023? And without Trump there, who will Chris Christie go after? And so on…

    And: Will anybody care?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  34. I know it’s a radical and heretofore unvoiced concept, but how appointing someone based on the content of their character and not the color of their skin or the content of their undergarments?

    nk (bb1548) — 9/29/2023 @ 1:39 pm

    It’s called politics.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  35. When vacancies happen in the representation of any State in the Senate, the executive authority of such State shall issue writs of election to fill such vacancies: Provided, That the legislature of any State may empower the executive thereof to make temporary appointments until the people fill the vacancies by election as the legislature may direct. — 17th Amendment

    Arguably, Newsom could make an interim appointment of a non-resident if California law allows it. Interim. If by writ of election, then we’re back to Article I, Section 3.

    nk (bb1548)

  36. Maybe Newsom will appoint Willie Brown, although that could be awkward. But not for Newsom.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  37. We use special forces all the flipping time and much further away from our own border often without the knowledge or permission of the host country.

    For all we know, Special Forces may already be there, and I don’t oppose that, but wasn’t what DeSantis was proposing, as I recall.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  38. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Planning to Announce Independent Run

    2024 presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. plans to announce he will run as an independent on October 9 in Pennsylvania, Mediaite has learned.

    Kennedy’s campaign machine is now planning “attack ads” against the Democratic National Committee in order to “pave the way” for his announcement in Philadelphia about running as an independent, according to a text reviewed by Mediaite.

    “Bobby feels that the DNC is changing the rules to exclude his candidacy so an independent run is the only way to go,” a Kennedy campaign insider told Mediaite.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  39. It is unclear if RFKJ will take votes from Democrats or from anti-vax Republicans.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  40. I remember,I think maybe the last time there was a partial government shutdown they started passing bills that carved out some things in advance of a full continuing resolution, Have they forgotten about that now?

    Sammy Finkelman (6b8ecd)

  41. @39

    It is unclear if RFKJ will take votes from Democrats or from anti-vax Republicans.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 1:55 pm

    Yeah, I’m not sure I buy that.

    Old Guard Democrats™ will find appeal to the Kennedy name.

    Climate-conscious Democrats™ would likely vote for Kennedy.

    The Blue Dog Democrats™ would vote for him.

    Lastly, the Clintonista Democrats™ would likely too.

    Maybe some hardcore MAGA voter would pull the lever for RFK, but I think mostly those voters would abstain.

    On the whole, RFK Independent run would be a net-negative for Democrats than whomever’s the GOP candidate.

    whembly (5f7596)

  42. Newsom should appoint barbara lee if he wants support from the base. Corporate establishment want adam shiff.

    asset (2550a6)

  43. Dana-
    Safe and happy travel to you

    steveg (8ee0ca)

  44. I applaud Ms Clinton and Joe Biden for holding DC vendido standards to millions in cash rather Trump and his cake.

    steveg (8ee0ca)

  45. whembly (5f7596) — 9/29/2023 @ 2:26 pm

    Comedy Gold!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  46. The Republican debates are only helping Donald Trump

    ……….
    The Trump campaign’s gambit, skipping RNC-sanctioned debates and forfeiting the free media attention to his rivals, has paid off. When Republicans walked onstage at the FiServ Forum, Trump held a 26-point lead over the field in Iowa, according to an average of all polling in the first caucus state. When they wrapped up at the Reagan Library this week, Trump’s lead had grown to 36 points, and Fox was cutting its debate ad rates.
    ………
    ………(T)he clear beneficiary of last month’s debate was Nikki Haley, who leapfrogged Ron DeSantis in some polls of New Hampshire – and who attacked DeSantis on Wednesday, asking how voters could take his energy plan seriously when “you banned fracking, you banned offshore drilling” in Florida.

    ……..Much of her mini-surge has come from peeling off moderate and liberal Republicans — the party’s least relevant voting bloc. …….
    ……..
    Primary voters just don’t care about his legal struggles, and most agree with the meta-narrative advanced by Trump and conservative media: Everything he’s accused of is a ruse by political enemies who want to destroy their most effective opponent. In a poll released by Fox Business just days before its own debate, 46% of likely Iowa caucus-goers supported Trump, unchanged from July. Two-thirds of Republican voters thought that Trump would “likely” defeat President Joe Biden, more than said so of any other candidate. Just one-third of Republicans thought that Trump’s “legal issues” would be a problem; one in four thought that they might actually be an asset.
    …….
    Trump’s rivals have a plan: Run unexpectedly strong in Iowa, win New Hampshire, then get a one-on-one contest against a weakened Trump in South Carolina. But Trump is simply far stronger than any of the recent front-runners who’ve stumbled in Iowa — and the last three Republican caucus winners in open races went on to lose the nomination anyway. Unless they can figure out how to dramatically cut into Trump’s support, rather than just reshuffle the dwindling non-Trump vote, their path is fully blocked.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  47. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/29/2023 @ 2:57 pm

    Looking forward to RFKJ’s polling-that will really be Comedy Gold!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  48. The first of the Fulton County 19 has pled guilty, one of the pawns. I suspect that he’ll be a cooperating witness.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  49. IRS Contractor Is Charged in Leak of Trump Tax Returns, Thousands of Wealthy Americans’ Records

    Federal prosecutors charged an Internal Revenue Service contractor with stealing the tax returns of former President Donald Trump and thousands of other wealthy Americans and leaking them to news organizations, apparently solving a two-year puzzle and a security breach that had drawn outrage from lawmakers and Biden administration officials.

    Charles Littlejohn, 38, of Washington, D.C., was charged Friday with one count of unauthorized disclosure of tax information, and he faces up to five years in prison, according to a Justice Department news release.
    ………
    The timeline outlined in the case matches the June 2021 publication by ProPublica of the tax records of wealthy Americans and the publication in September 2020 of information from Trump’s 2016 and 2017 tax records by the New York Times. The charge marks the first sign of progress in a two-year-long investigation that has proceeded quietly, and it links those two disclosures for the first time.

    The charge was filed in a document known as an information, a type of document that prosecutors usually use if a defendant is expected to plead guilty to the charges……….

    ……….According to court records, Littlejohn worked for an IRS contractor from 2017 to 2021 and is alleged to have stolen the tax records from 2018 to 2020.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  50. Whiplashed:
    ………..
    (Senator Robert) Menendez was indicted last week, a year and a half after federal agents found nearly $500,000 at his home, including gold bars. The feds allege the senator accepted bribes to advance the interests of the Egyptian government and associates of his. Those associates, along with his wife, have also been indicted.

    Over the weekend, McCarthy was asked (by CNN’s Manu Raju) if Menendez should resign.

    “Yeah, very much so,” the speaker said.

    On Tuesday, Raju asked about Rep. George Santos (R-NY), a member of McCarthy’s razor-thin House majority. Santos was indicted on 13 counts by a federal grand jury in May for “wire fraud, money laundering, theft of public funds, and making false statements to the U.S. House of Representatives.”
    ……….

    RAJU: You called on Bob Menendez to resign–

    MCCARTHY: Did I call on him–

    RAJU: You did.

    MCCARTHY: –or did you ask me a question?

    RAJU: You did over the weekend. You said he should resign. Do you think that George Santos, who’s been indicted on federal criminal charges should also resign?

    MCCARTHY: Uh, no. I think George can have his day in court and I think Menendez can have his day in court.

    RAJU: Why do you think he needs to resign then?

    MCCARTHY: Uh, it can be his choice, what he wants to do.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  51. https://www.nationalreview.com/news/ex-loudoun-superintendent-found-guilty-of-retaliating-against-teacher-who-spoke-out-about-sex-assault/

    A jury on Friday found former Loudoun County superintendent Scott Ziegler guilty of retaliating against a teacher for cooperating with Virginia’s grand jury probe into the district’s alleged mishandling of sexual assault cases. Ziegler wrongfully terminated a teacher who had informed investigators about a sexual assault that happened in her classroom, the jury concluded. After teacher Erin Brooks told prosecutors, sent by Virginia attorney general Jason Miyares, about the incident, Ziegler fired her for working with the grand jury. The probe, mandated by Virginia governor Glenn Youngkin,

    Public school corruption has no bounds.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  52. https://freebeacon.com/latest-news/just-6-percent-of-new-sp-jobs-went-to-white-applicants-in-the-wake-of-george-floyd-analysis-shows/

    Only 6 percent of new S&P 100 jobs went to white applicants in the year after George Floyd’s death, according to an analysis by Bloomberg News, a testament to the pervasiveness of legally tenuous diversity programs throughout corporate America.

    The analysis, based on data reported to the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, shows that S&P 100 companies added 323,094 new jobs between 2020 and 2021. Of that total, 302,570 of them—94 percent of the total increase—went to “people of color,” defined as blacks, Asians, and Hispanics, the analysis found. Together, those groups make up just 40 percent of the U.S population.

    The disparities raise new questions about the role of race in corporate hiring, which is already under scrutiny following the Supreme Court’s ban on affirmative action in college admissions. With many companies and law firms now facing lawsuits over their diversity programs, the numbers suggest that race-conscious decision-making has gone beyond flashy fellowships or supplier diversity initiatives; in 2020, it appears to have permeated routine employment decisions.

    “These numbers are extraordinarily stark,” said Dan Morenoff, the executive director of the American Civil Rights Project, which litigates reverse discrimination cases. “It’s very hard to imagine this could be legally defensible.”

    Morenoff added that “disparate impact,” or disparities in outcomes, can be a basis for liability even without proof of intentional discrimination. The Justice Department used this theory last year when it sued Meta, Facebook’s parent company, on the grounds that the platform’s algorithms affect users differently based on their race.

    Anti-white racism for all to see. But silence on all fronts.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  53. Newsom should appoint barbara lee if he wants support from the base. Corporate establishment want adam shiff.

    He won’t appoint anyone now in the race, nor anyone who would get into the race after the appointment. Caretakers only need apply.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  54. The timeline outlined in the case matches the June 2021 publication by ProPublica of the tax records of wealthy Americans

    Why can’t someone steal the records of progressive activists. I’m sure that ProPublica would publish them; it’s not like they are partisan, right?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  55. RIP Terry Kirkman (83):

    Terry Kirkman, a singer-songwriter whose tender vocals, intricate wordplay and expansive musicianship helped make his band the Association one of the biggest, most eclectic folk rock groups of the late 1960s, with hits that ranged from the chart-topping ballad “Cherish” to the antiwar song “Requiem for the Masses,” died Sept. 23 at his home in Montclair, Calif.
    ………
    A versatile musician who played more than two-dozen instruments (tuba, sousaphone, recorder, sax), Mr. Kirkman was a founding member of the Association, a sunny Southern California band that got together in 1965, at the height of the folk music revival, and won over millions of listeners with their dreamy arrangements and sensuous, Beach Boys-esque harmonies.
    ……..
    Mr. Kirkman wrote and sang lead on the group’s first No. 1, “Cherish” (1966), which became a staple of wedding-reception slow dances. He had another Top 10 hit with his love song “Everything That Touches You” (1968), and shared lead vocals with guitarist Larry Ramos on “Never My Love” (1967), a laid-back pop tune by songwriters Don and Dick Addrisi, which went to No. 2 and was covered by the 5th Dimension.
    ……..
    ……..Their first hit song, a 1966 recording of Tandyn Almer’s “Along Comes Mary,” was rumored to be about marijuana. …….
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  56. They say there’s so much water up north…”

    They never say who “they” is, and neither does Trump.
    A few years ago, Trump said that CA wouldn’t have all these forest fires if they raked the forest floors like they do somewhere in Scandinavia, which is a fake story. Now he’s saying he can dampen the forest floors, and problem solved. But it’s a fake solution; anyone who saw the water levels at Lake Shasta a year ago would know that.

    I’ll believe Trump’s “plan” like I believe he could balance the federal budget, replace Obamacare with his better plan, and negotiate a peace deal in 24 hours.

    On the Left, there’s mentally diminished and, on the Right, there’s mentally insane. We’re so f-cked.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  57. Trump has always reminded me of Hitler in Der Untergang talking about the new secret weapons that will win the war a few hours before … you know. Except that Trump does it with everything.

    Pseudologia fantastica. He spews the crap and where it sticks it sticks. And, unfortunately, it sticks with the people who will choose the next Republican nominee, whether Trump or one of the other twerps, and half the Congress.

    nk (bb1548)

  58. https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2023-black-lives-matter-equal-opportunity-corporate-diversity/

    Really interesting article about diversity in the workforce. Worth a full read as the soundboard summaries are petty misleading.

    Time123 (721bfc)

  59. Really interesting article about diversity in the workforce. Worth a full read as the soundboard summaries are petty misleading.

    Time123 (721bfc) — 9/29/2023 @ 4:47 pm

    Your approval about racism towards white people is duly noted. Explains a lot.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  60. Have you completely lost the ability to comprehend basic English? How did you turn “really interesting article….worth a read” into that?

    Time123 (dcbd35)

  61. Whembly speaks wisely in comment 41

    Time123 (dcbd35)

  62. “Charles Littlejohn, 38, of Washington, D.C., was charged Friday with one count of unauthorized disclosure of tax information, and he faces up to five years in prison, according to a Justice Department news release.”

    I guess at age 82 Eugene Hasenfus was the victim of ageism

    steveg (8ee0ca)

  63. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/york-city-tells-migrants-better-192102631.html

    Leftists want to destroy Republican states, but not pay for their actions.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  64. I guess at age 82, go to fall guy Eugene Hasenfus was the victim of ageism

    steveg (8ee0ca)

  65. Time,

    your nonsense about “the soundboard summaries are pretty misleading” says it all.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  66. I think Jack Smith should’ve kept his gag order powder dry, only because a guy like Milley seems immune from being threatened or intimidated by Trump.
    But, Milley is on the witness list for the DC trial, and other witnesses are paying attention…

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  67. Trump has always reminded me of Hitler in Der Untergang talking about the new secret weapons that will win the war a few hours before … you know. Except that Trump does it with everything.

    I liken his “ideas” to essentially being another ‘injection of bleach to kill coronavirus’…

    Dana (aac8e9)

  68. Why can’t someone steal the records of progressive activists. I’m sure that ProPublica would publish them; it’s not like they are partisan, right?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 3:56 pm

    The better question is why aren’t the NYT and PP being prosecuted for publishing the leaked information. Send a few reporters to jail and their employers will stop accepting leaked documents.

    Rip Murdock (512e74)

  69. Affirmative action came out of the riots of the 1960’s when black people were burning down a city a week. Newerk one week detroit the next week. Black soldier draftees sitting down on the runway refusing to go to detroit to shoot down their black brothers. The idea was if blacks had jobs in the buildings they were less likely to burn them down. Its called dehonkifacation! @ republicans don’t want to pay for their actions either ;but they will. As thomas jefferson said I tremble for my country when I remember god is just. Kent state/jackson state, fred hampton and mark clark murderers have not been brought to justice YET! to name just two. Gavin Newsom better name Barbra Lee to that senate seat if he ever wants to run for president in black primary area states.

    asset (146a2c)

  70. Whembly speaks wisely in comment 41

    Time123 (dcbd35) — 9/29/2023 @ 5:11 pm

    If Whembly is correct, why aren’t those Democrats supporting RFKJr now?

    Rip Murdock (512e74)

  71. Gavin Newsom better name Barbra Lee to that senate seat if he ever wants to run for president in black primary area states.

    Not gonna happen. He’ll name a black woman, just not her.

    Rip Murdock (512e74)

  72. @68 I am sure they taught you about the first amendment (freedom of press) Ever here of the pentagon papers? The media would go after them and never let up. Newsmen want to be martyrs it a good career move being interviewed in jail. See michael lacy new times arrest.

    asset (146a2c)

  73. I am sure they taught you about the first amendment (freedom of press) ……..

    The First Amendment is not absolute or a get out of jail card. Reporters can commit crimes in their reporting. The Espionage Act (which wouldn’t apply here) specifically bans the publication of classified information, it just hasn’t been enforced.

    Publication of taxpayer information should be treated the same.

    Rip Murdock (512e74)

  74. Newsmen want to be martyrs it a good career move being interviewed in jail.

    Five years in federal prison should shorten their careers. By that time nobody will remember them.

    I have no idea why you think the sex trafficker Mike Lacey is relevant. He just proves my point.

    Rip Murdock (512e74)

  75. The Pentagon Papers Case did not save Julian Assange’s ass. Like it did not save Judy Miller’s in the Valerie Plame case. Or would not have saved Glenn Greenwald’s if he had not immediately snitched out Reality Winner.

    What’s saving the media’s asses, for the time being, is a deep blue Democrat U.S. Attorney General bent on kissing them. Merrick Garland has announced a DOJ policy of doing good to his friends and evil to his enemies, and the media are the Democrats’ very bestest best friends.

    nk (bb1548)

  76. When Newerk was burned, no one could tell the difference

    steveg (8ee0ca)

  77. If Whembly is correct, why aren’t those Democrats supporting RFKJr now?

    If whembly is correct, why is the Libertarian Party talking to RFKJ?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  78. and the media are the Democrats’ very bestest best friends.

    As long as they behave, of course. Trump may threaten Comcast and MSNBC, but it’s so ham-handed that no court will allow it for any expressed reason. But the Democrats know how to put the shiv in when no one is the wiser and the media bosses don’t what to mess with that.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  79. I am sure they taught you about the first amendment (freedom of press)

    Sure they can print their stolen goods, but they still are in receipt of stolen goods. Like speech, you are free to libel someone — no one can stop you — but you may have to pay up later.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  80. @74 lacy was jailed for reporting on sheriff joe arpaio.

    asset (146a2c)

  81. President biden asks senate republicans not to block democrats from replacing feinstein on judicary committee so democrats force him to use pardon powers to retaliate since house will impeach him anyway.

    asset (146a2c)

  82. Rip, because it’s early yet. Also, I think there are more ppl who would be looking to vote against trump, then against Biden. So another alternative to Trump on the tick hurts Biden.

    Time123 (710106)

  83. Justices take major Florida and Texas social media cases

    The Supreme Court on Friday agreed to weigh in on the constitutionality of controversial laws in Texas and Florida that would regulate how large social media companies like Facebook and X (formerly known as Twitter) control content posted on their sites. The laws were enacted in 2021 in response to legislators’ beliefs that the companies were censoring their users, particularly those with conservative views; the companies contend that the laws violate their First Amendment rights.

    The announcement that the justices had granted review in Moody v. NetChoice and NetChoice v. Paxton came as part of a list of orders from the justices’ Sept. 26 conference, the first conference since late June in which the justices had considered new cases to add to their docket for the 2023-24 term. The justices granted review on Friday in a total of 12 cases; the remaining 10 cases will be covered in a separate story.

    The Texas and Florida legislatures passed the laws at the center of the disputes in 2021. The Texas law, known as H.B. 20, bars social-media platforms with at least 50 million active users from blocking, removing, or “demonetizing” content based on the users’ views. The Florida law, known as S.B. 7072 or the Stop Social Media Censorship Act, prohibits social-media companies from banning political candidates and “journalistic enterprises.”

    Technology companies went to federal court in Texas and Florida to challenge the laws, arguing (among other things) that the laws violate their First Amendment right to control what speech appears on their platform. The justices put the Texas law on hold last year while the challenges to the law continued in the lower courts. In an opinion joined by Justices Clarence Thomas and Neil Gorsuch, Justice Samuel Alito suggested that the court did not need to intervene yet. Justice Elena Kagan also indicated, without any additional explanation, that she would have allowed the law to go into effect.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  84. The companies also object to having to explain any blocking or removal decisions.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  85. French has a sobering assessment of Putin’s War Against Ukraine. There’s a good reason why Ukraine’s counteroffensive is going slowly, and there’s an equally good reason why it’s in our national interests to get them the weapons they need, and quickly. The majority of non-Reaganesque Republicans in the House are serving Putin’s interests, not ours.

    I’m going to liberally cut-and-paste from this post by Mr. Mott.

    (1) Putin’s only viable plan to keep part of illegally-occupied Ukraine is to erode Western military aid. Left as it is, every day Russia faces huge irreplaceable losses, while the AFU grow stronger. See post below.

    (2) The Russian attack on political support for the war is built on the erroneous premise that this will be “an endless war.” This plays well as a theme to Americans disallusioned by the Afghanistan war, its costs and the “train wreck” withdrawal.

    (3) Americans get very little detailed news on the military operations and results. Even well-informed friends of mine are surprised by facts that I report to them. It is simply not covered by US media. See post below.

    (4) This Russian propaganda line shows up in the Russian troll accounts, with pro-Russian nut jobs and then creeps into traditional news and opinions, i.e. David Sacks, Elon Musk, NYT, and others. None of the non-Russian sympathizers actually have detailed factual justification for the allegations nor do the third-parties deceived by this actually check anything.

    (5) This endless war narrative has been the underlining basis for the erosion of Republican support for Ukraine both in the public and in Congress. Creating the narrative of a stalemate allows people to argue that it is time for “peace” or compromise. Folks often cite the need to end the suffering in Ukraine as some kind of thinly constructed moral cover for their opinion.

    (6) Ukrainians overwhelmingly want to keep fighting, despite the dear cost to their society. They know the price of Russian occupation in random civilian murders, rapes, looting and targeted assassination of political and military figures. Only 9% find it somewhat or fully acceptable to cede territory illegally occupied by Russia including 2022 seizures as well as Crimea, Donetsk and Luhansk. Kyiv Institute for Sociology, June 2023 poll.

    (7) I submit that Ukrainian sentiment would not run this strongly in favor of continuing to fight to achieve the 1991 borders if they felt they were losing or if the war promises an “endless conflict.”

    (8) So viewed totally objectively, is Ukraine winning and does the realtively small squre kilomerters of advances mean anything?

    (a) Using the total map of Ukraine is very misleading: the actual area of the war now is a ban of land 40-80 km wide running from the north to Kherson. Ukraine needs only get a penetration or two through this line to break out behind the generally undefended Russian rear areas.

    (b) Ukraine is making big progress in doing so, due to its attrition of Russian forces, especially artillery and air defense. Precision artillery and drone strikes have decimated the Russian army, which is hitting horribly low morale, is poorly supplied and growing worse, and cannot replace either troops or equipment losses. New conscripts are untrained and lack officers to lead them.

    (c) Recently Ukraine has neutralized the Black Sea Fleet pushing it to the east and has virtually all of Crimea under indirect fire and drone coverage. Russian air defense is almost useless and has been taken out daily in key areas. Russian supply lines – never done well- are now reduced and threatened across the front. Russian troops and generals in linked communications have revealed general and growing defeatism.

    Bolded part mine, but I think he meant from the Azov Sea to Kherson, not “from the north”. There’s a reason why one of the first legs of Putin’s invasion was to connect the Donbas and Crimean regions, and it’s just as important that Ukraine break it.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  86. Rip, because it’s early yet. ……….

    It’s always “early yet”, but pretty soon it’s gonna be too late.

    Rip Murdock (512e74)

  87. @74 lacy was jailed for reporting on sheriff joe arpaio.

    asset (146a2c) — 9/30/2023 @ 1:11 am

    And he could be doing federal time as a sex trafficker, the worst kind of federal time.

    Rip Murdock (512e74)

  88. DeSantis went into hostile territory and acquitted himself well against Bill Maher. Gave people a reason to vote for him and actually had Maher conceeding his successes.

    NJRob (f522dc)

  89. It’s always “early yet”, but pretty soon it’s gonna be too late.

    Rip Murdock (512e74) — 9/30/2023 @ 9:11 am

    Because 2024 state primary election filing deadlines are rapidly approaching.

    Rip Murdock (512e74)

  90. President biden asks senate republicans not to block democrats from replacing feinstein on judicary committee so democrats force him to use pardon powers to retaliate since house will impeach him anyway.

    asset (146a2c) — 9/30/2023 @ 1:17 am

    The Republicans said “no problemo.”

    Rip Murdock (512e74)

  91. so democrats force him to use pardon powers to retaliate

    What does that mean? The president can’t pardon an impeachment.

    Rip Murdock (512e74)

  92. He can always pardon Menendez.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  93. Interesting old story in the Guardian illustrates why Russia can never be trusted

    “I was in Georgia when I went to bed,” said the energetic 81-year-old farmer, speaking from behind the head-height fence. “When I woke I was in South Ossetia.”

    Its easy. Russia periodically moves the border another 100 meters, puts up razor wire and signs. It’s now Russian territory

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/20/russian-expansion-georgia-south-ossetia#:~:text=%E2%80%9CWhen%20I%20woke%20I%20was,for%20control%20of%20South%20Ossetia.

    steveg (6f6d42)

  94. https://twitter.com/sumlenny

    This links a long thread about how the FSB run Russian pulp fiction agitprop business kicked into high gear gear in 2010 with main story line of Russia defeating Nazi Ukraine and crushing NATO equipment. Nifty cover art featuring Russian hero patriots raising the Soviet hammer and sickle Iwo Jima style over the burning US Capitol, book displays in bookstores surrounded by military style gear for sale.

    Of course Hollywood often casts Russians as villains and as military, spy opponents but this was a deluge

    steveg (6f6d42)

  95. The person writing the thread sees this agitprop aimed at youth then, to have been preparation for now adult military aged young men to wage this war to retake their former Eastern European territories. They can move fences 100 yards at a time in Georgia, but that will never work in Ukraine, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania so they need to conduct a shooting war to get those back

    steveg (6f6d42)

  96. Judge in Trump racketeering case denies motion to suppress evidence

    Fulton County Superior Court Judge Scott McAfee on Friday denied a motion by former Trump campaign attorney Kenneth Chesebro to toss out emails and memos he wrote detailing a plan to use a Republican slate of electors in Georgia and six other swing states won by Democrat Joe Biden.

    Chesebro’s lawyers had argued that the documents were protected under attorney-client privilege and should not be used against him in the sweeping election interference case brought by Fulton District Attorney Fani Willis. In an order issued Friday morning, McAfee said those protections are only meant to shield lawyers who are not suspects in a crime, and he referred to the defense motion as a “strained reading” of Georgia law.

    McAfee wrote that documents accompanying a search warrant that turned up the memos “repeatedly refers to the Defendant as a ‘co-conspirator,’ ‘participant,’ ‘intermediary,’ and ‘liaison’ working with several other charged defendants in this case to further a ‘false elector plot’ in violation of several laws.”
    ………….
    McAfee dealt another blow to Chesebro’s defense Friday, denying another motion to dismiss the case entirely or to provide him with immunity from prosecution. ……..
    ………….

    Related:

    Fulton County Superior Court Judge Scott McAfee on Friday morning presented an initial game-plan for the coming weeks to tackle the logistical nightmare of the first Georgia election racketeering trial, against pro-Trump attorneys Kenneth Chesebro and Sidney Powell.

    With jury selection just 21 days away, McAfee set a timeline to handle all pre-trial motions and hearings, and one thing seems certain – no more virtual hearings.

    “Based on this morning’s experience I don’t think it will be over zoom,” McAfee remarked during Friday’s hearing, which was held virtually and opened with a 15-minute delay due to the technical difficulties of having a half dozen attorneys, the public and the judge all on the same call.
    …………
    Jury summons have gone out to 900 Fulton County residents, and they will be called in two batches of 450, McAfee said.
    ………….
    “We’re officially kicking it off on a Friday, October 20, and that was simply because of the logistics of getting jurors in a room,” McAfee said, noting that questionnaire day might be a good time for the defense teams to have their clients in the courthouse and be seen by the potential jurors.
    ……….
    In order to keep things moving efficiently, McAfee is going to have digital countdown clocks installed in the courtroom, limiting the time prosecutors and the defense have to question jurors to an hour for each side: one hour for Chesebro’s team, one hour for Powell’s team and one hour for the district attorney’s team.
    ………..
    Here’s a timeline of what to expect in the coming months based off of McAfee’s discussion with attorneys Friday:
    …………

    Time to take a plea deal, or do you feel lucky?

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  97. The first of the Fulton County 19 has pled guilty, one of the pawns. I suspect that he’ll be a cooperating witness.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/29/2023 @ 3:20 pm

    I guess Trump wasn’t paying his legal fees.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  98. What law I want as we approach a government shutdown:
    1. Congressional pay stops (this should automatically happen if they don’t pass a budget)
    2. Close the congressional gym
    3. No free airport parking
    4. No free flights
    5. Reduce staff to 3…freeze personal budgets
    6. Minimum security detail at Capitol
    7. All congressional health care subsidies must be paid out of pocket

    Stress the individuals to do their job.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  99. Wait, what?!

    Dem NY Rep Jamaal Bowman pulled fire alarm in Cannon Building, forcing evacuation as Dems tried to buy more time to read new CR. USCP criminal investigation unit is questioning Bowman.

    I doubt his act falls under the Speech & Debate Clause. It would be ironic if he’s kicked out of Congress before Menendez or Santos.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  100. 6. Minimum security detail at Capitol

    Too soon?

    steveg (6f6d42)

  101. DeSantis flips on abortion, supports a 15-week national ban and blames the Florida Legislature for the six-week ban that he signed into law:

    It’s a commitment DeSantis has avoided making since entering the presidential race – which has at times drawn him sharp criticism from a top anti-abortion group. DeSantis instead has campaigned on the six-week abortion ban he signed in Florida earlier this year while suggesting other states may have different approaches based on their political environments.
    ………..
    In an interview that aired Friday, DeSantis distanced himself slightly from the six-week abortion restriction he signed into law, calling it “a legislative issue.”

    “It’s a legislative issue. So they have to figure out what they think, and so the legislature identified the moment where there’s a detectable heartbeat as the time where there’s legal protections,” DeSantis said on “Real Time with Bill Maher.” “Now they did provide exceptions for all the difficult cases that you hear about, but basically once there’s a heartbeat, it shouldn’t be used as a form of birth control.”

    LOL! Blaming the FL Legislature for the six-week ban is like his response to January 6th: “I wasn’t anywhere near Washington that day. I have nothing to do with what happened that day.”

    Completely feckless.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  102. House passes short-term funding bill with hours until government shutdown

    So we can go through this all over again in 45 days.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  103. Completely feckless.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:02 pm

    Will Darling Nikki be next?

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  104. George Conway, to Ms. Boebert: “He [Bowman] did wrong, and should be thrown out of the House, but tbh you’re the last person to criticize someone for pulling something.”

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  105. Completely feckless.
    Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:02 pm

    Well, better late than never, but he should have vetoed the damn thing if he didn’t like it.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  106. It is really funny the way that Republicans talked themselves into all those abortion ban bills while Roe was in effect — basically decades of pandering and posturing — and then found that those votes and/or promises weren’t free after all.

    Pretty much the way that the FCC is going to reimpose “net neutrality” despite the fact that their imagined parade of horribles never happened. In fact, ISP service got better and prices decreased.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  107. Ahd the FL “6-week” bill is a total fraud as the woman has to accomplish about 12 weeks of tasks before the 6 weeks are up.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  108. What law I want as we approach a government shutdown:

    In most states, furloughed workers are still paid benefits. It’s the main difference between a furlough and a layoff.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  109. I doubt his act falls under the Speech & Debate Clause. It would be ironic if he’s kicked out of Congress before Menendez or Santos.

    I expect him to be fined, and perhaps spend a night or two in the Congressional slammer if anyone remembers where it is.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  110. Comedy Gold!

    “Real Time” host Bill Maher grilled Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis on his uphill battle to defeat former President Trump in the GOP primary.

    “You did not take my advice,” Maher began the exchange on Friday. “I was on the show- a few times we talked- I said, ‘this guy’s crazy to run this time. He’s- what are you, 45 years old? You just had a birthday, right?”

    “Yeah,” DeSantis said.

    “You could run for the next 20 years. If you were Biden, the next 40,” Maher quipped. “Why run against Trump? You’re trying to thread this needle that will never happen. You can’t disavow him because that’s the base, and yet you’re running against him. And that’s why, I mean, let’s face it Ron, if the campaign was going well, you wouldn’t be on this show.”

    “Oh that’s not true,” DeSantis reacted. “One: I don’t think he can win the election. I could win the election……..
    …………
    The HBO star then knocked the governor’s past campaigning for “election deniers” during the 2022 midterms, something Maher quoted “The Godfather” by saying it’s something “I do not forgive.” DeSantis broadly defended his support for Republicans running in key races.

    “But Trump lost the election, right?” Maher asked.

    “Yeah, yeah,” DeSantis quickly responded.
    ………..

    🤣The RCP general election average has Trump +1.3 over Biden and DeSantis -2.5 behind Biden.

    Before you win the general election, you need to win the primaries, and DeSantis isn’t leading in any state polls right now, not even in Florida.

    Good luck!

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  111. Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:00 pm

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 12:36 pm

    Oh please. Is pulling a fire alarm even a crime (anywhere)? It’s not like he called in a fake bomb threat or swatted McCarthy.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  112. More Comedy Gold!

    Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis wants to go toe to toe with former President Donald Trump, the Republican presidential frontrunner.

    “You know what, maybe we can say since the former president didn’t come here, maybe he’d be willing to do one with you and I,” DeSantis told Fox News’ Sean Hannity after the second GOP primary debate.
    …………
    “Rob DeSanctimonious? The loser in 5th place in New Hampshire? His pathetic campaign is over. Good night, sweet prince,” senior Trump adviser Jason Miller told The Post.
    …………

    🤣Trump leads DeSantis by 44 points in the RCP national average.

    Demanding a debate with Trump, who leads you by more than 40 points, is a sure sign that DeSantis is desperate. If anyone should be demanding a debate with DeSantis it should be Haley, as she is only 10 points behind him.

    But instead DeSantis will be debating Gavin Newsom, a complete non-factor in the Republican presidential race. DeSantis got suckered.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  113. Correction to post 112:

    If anyone should be demanding a debate with DeSantis it should be Haley, as she is only 10 8 points behind him.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  114. “Oh please. Is pulling a fire alarm even a crime (anywhere)?”

    Duh.

    It shall be unlawful for any person or persons to willfully or knowingly give a false alarm of fire within the District of Columbia, and any person or persons violating the provisions of this subsection shall, upon conviction, be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and be punished by a fine not more than the amount set forth in § 22-3571.01 or by imprisonment for not more than 6 months, or by both such fine and imprisonment. Prosecutions for violation of the provisions of this subsection shall be on information filed in the Superior Court of the District of Columbia by the Office of the Attorney General for the District of Columbia.

    But, Rule of Law fans, is it really a crime if you get away with it? As a democrat like Bowman certainly will.

    lloyd (ddf9ab)

  115. If anyone should be demanding a debate with DeSantis it should be Haley, as she is only 10 8 points behind him.

    IIRC, the RNC insists that candidates only participate in RNC-sanctioned debates.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  116. Oh please. Is pulling a fire alarm even a crime (anywhere)? It’s not like he called in a fake bomb threat or swatted McCarthy.
    18 USC 1512
    (c) Whoever corruptly—
    (2) otherwise obstructs, influences, or impedes any official proceeding, or attempts to do so,
    shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  117. How will Trump observe the anniversary of the events of November 8, 1923?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  118. IIRC, the RNC insists that candidates only participate in RNC-sanctioned debates.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 1:48 pm

    Then I guess DeSantis will be violating that rule when he debates Newsom, and signing a pledge to support the Republican nominee when you don’t really mean it.

    The RNC’s rules are unenforceable; I sure all would be forgiven if lightning hits Trump and DeSantis or Haley become the nominee.

    🤣

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  119. That was deliberately unserious, BTW.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  120. Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 2:04 pm

    Have a German lager. Prost!

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  121. Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 1:54 pm

    LOL!

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  122. Even Trump doesn’t believe Michelle Obama will enter the Democratic presidential race, dashing the prognostications of Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  123. @87 they were ads in new times by sex workers and you know this.

    asset (b03ac6)

  124. I don’t think Michelle Obama is interested in running for President because I don’t think she is interested in being President.
    She has a great life right now. She can pick and chose what she does each day, who she talks to, where she goes. She has money, probably hasn’t picked up a check in the past 7 years. President would be a step down unless there was a deep fire inside for the job and I don’t think she liked the job all that much when her husband had it.

    steveg (6f6d42)

  125. All black jury in washington d.c. would not convict bowman. He would be re-elected in a NY minute. Santos must be sweating this out. As a squad member rethugs, democrat corporate establishment stooges on one side and progressives on the other side will have the knives out for each other and black women are already upset with corporate establishment democrat newsom saying he wont appoint Barbara Lee to ca. senate seat as their loyalty to democrat party is flushed down the toilet again by party leadership.

    asset (b03ac6)

  126. Multi-Million Dollar Campaign to Stop Donald Trump Flops:

    ……….
    ………..(In a memo obtained by the New York Times), the head of Win It Back PAC (affiliated with The Club for Growth), David McIntosh, acknowledges to donors that after extensive testing of more than 40 anti-Trump television ads, “all attempts to undermine his conservative credentials on specific issues were ineffective.”
    ………….
    “Even when you show video to Republican primary voters — with complete context — of President Trump saying something otherwise objectionable to primary voters, they find a way to rationalize and dismiss it,” Mr. McIntosh states in the “key learnings” section of the memo.

    “Every traditional postproduction ad attacking President Trump either backfired or produced no impact on his ballot support and favorability,” Mr. McIntosh adds. “This includes ads that primarily feature video of him saying liberal or stupid comments from his own mouth.”
    ……………
    Examples of “failed” ads cited in the memo included attacks on Mr. Trump’s “handling of the pandemic, promotion of vaccines, praise of Dr. Fauci, insane government spending, failure to build the wall, recent attacks on pro-life legislation, refusal to fight woke issues, openness to gun control, and many others.” ………

    The list of failed attacks is notable because it includes many of the arguments that Mr. DeSantis has tried against Mr. Trump. (The polling firm used by super PAC, WPA Intelligence, also does work for the DeSantis campaign.)……….
    …………
    The memo says this of Win It Back’s most promising pandemic-themed ad: “This ad was our best creative on the pandemic and vaccines that we tested in focus group settings, but it still produced a backlash in our online randomized controlled experiment — improving President Trump’s ballot support by four points and net favorability by 11 points.”

    …………. The group tested in a focus group and online panel an ad called “Risk,” narrated by former Representative Liz Cheney, that focused on Mr. Trump’s actions on Jan. 6, 2021. But the group found that the Cheney ad helped Mr. Trump with the Republican voters, according to Mr. McIntosh.
    ……………

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  127. The problem is that opponents like the Club for Growth or other status quo ante organizations have no effing clue why Trump is eating their lunch. They just assume it’s because people haven’t heard their message and are shocked to find out that not only have they heard it, they utterly reject it.

    In short, “more cowbell” isn’t the answer.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  128. @87 they were ads in new times by sex workers and you know this.

    asset (b03ac6) — 9/30/2023 @ 2:39 pm

    Actually I did not know that, but then again I a) don’t live in Phoenix, or b) read those pages. All I do know is that Mike Lacey is under 93-count federal indictment for sex trafficking through his Backpage website.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  129. steveg (6f6d42) — 9/30/2023 @ 2:44 pm

    Wishcasting by Democrats and some Republicans.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  130. ………. black women are already upset with corporate establishment democrat newsom saying he wont appoint Barbara Lee to ca. senate seat……….

    Barbara Lee is a loser (single digits in a 3-way race) and Democrats want to retain the seat. If she was appointed you would see people like Steve Garvey enter the race and win (which would be a good thing for CA Republicans).

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  131. Indeed. If Lee was appointed, no Democrat would challenge her for fear of being called a racist. But Steve Garvey?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  132. Indeed. If Lee was appointed, no Democrat would challenge her for fear of being called a racist. But Steve Garvey?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 3:34 pm

    Garvey’s interest in the Senate seat was a thing back in June, but came up again a couple of weeks ago.

    Considering that California Republicans haven’t won a Senate race since 1988, the best they can do now to win is run a celebrity candidate.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  133. Because that worked so well for Herschel Walker….

    Garvey has some issues himself. IIRC, he was juicing the whole time.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  134. Also, his marital life was a total mess, divorcing, fathering several children out of wedlock, and suing his former wife for access to his kids, who testified they were not interested. He was also sued by the FTC for fraud, but a court ruled he was not culpable for things he said as a paid spokesperson.

    and, oops, maybe he didn’t use steroids after all. The stuff I had read in the past is gone.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  135. The best thing Republicans can do is support the strongest conservative candidate. If we still get Trump, then we’ve advocated as much as we can do and then in the general we vote for what is best for the country and what our conscience can handle. If other people want to tout Trump or bad-mouth the better conservative candidates, then that’s their prerogative. If you are in a deep blue or bright red state, then try and get someone in a swing state to choose that strongest conservative non-Trump candidate. Polls can change.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  136. The best thing Republicans can do is support the strongest conservative candidate.

    Who is?

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  137. If we still get Trump, then we’ve advocated as much as we can do and then in the general we vote for what is best for the country and what our conscience can handle.

    Here’s one person’s advice:

    “For those Republicans who can’t vote for Biden because he’s a Democrat, I recommend that they buck up and vote for Biden anyway. I voted Republican all my life until Trump. If I can do it, so can they.”

    I hope Rob can reassure us the dude is just another moby leftist.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  138. For that matter, here’s that moby leftist’s view of anyone still on the Trump train:

    “Anyone who would vote for Trump at this point is a civic disaster and has no business voting at all.”

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  139. More Magical Thinking After Debate #2:

    ………..(T)he chances the debates could significantly weaken Trump’s stranglehold on the GOP presidential race appeared slim, with the former president declining to participate and having little reason to change course.
    …………..
    Once seen as presidential candidates’ best chance at a game-changing moment, the Republican debates so far have in many ways reinforced Trump’s dominant position in the 2024 race — showcasing the fierce fighting to emerge as his most viable challenger while the former president counterprograms with a dark message for reelection. ………
    …………..
    “Baby steps aren’t going to cut it,” said (GOP strategist Mike Dennehy), who argued that candidates will need to take big risks to move the dial. “It’s time for the Hail Mary.”
    ………….
    “This debate did not change the trajectory of the Republican primary at all, so there comes a point in time where you’ve got to ask yourself, ‘What’s the point?’” Trump senior campaign adviser Chris LaCivita said. “All of this is a sideshow. I actually call it … an interview for who’s going to be the designated survivor.”
    …………
    “Nikki is second in New Hampshire and second in South Carolina, and we’re coming for Iowa, too. She’s in it to win it,” said (Haley) spokeswoman Olivia Perez-Cubas, who argued that it looks increasingly likely that Haley will emerge as the most viable Trump alternative.
    ………..
    A person close to the DeSantis campaign, who like some others spoke on the condition of anonymity to candidly discuss the race, was dismissive of Ramaswamy and Scott, and said the primary “really comes down to, other than Trump, [Haley] and DeSantis.” But Haley, the person argued, has a “low ceiling” in the primary while DeSantis’s message appeals to a broader, more Trump-friendly swath of the GOP electorate.
    …………
    Metals magnate Andy Sabin, who is supporting Scott, said he was pleased that Scott spoke up more Wednesday night than he did in the first debate. But Sabin said he’s not expecting his candidate to make a dent in Trump’s dominating lead without the former president dropping out.

    “Nothing in a debate is going to sway that core Trump base,” he said. “The best shot is Trump implodes with all his legal problems. The second best shot is he gets the nomination and he picks one of them as his vice president.”
    …………
    Bobbie Kilberg, a donor staunchly opposed to Trump and supporting former New Jersey governor Chris Christie, praised Christie and Haley’s performances but added, “Did anybody have a really breakthrough moment? No, not really.”
    ………….
    “The debates are interesting, but I’m not sure … at this point in time, we’ll learn much more from them,” Kilberg said.
    …………..

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  140. lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/30/2023 @ 5:48 pm

    Touché!

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  141. @126/127 I have been saying for years here. Maybe you can get thru to the pollyannas.

    asset (dba697)

  142. ………..while DeSantis’s message appeals to a broader, more Trump-friendly swath of the GOP electorate.

    The polls sure don’t show that; for as long as Trump is on the ballot, why vote for an imposter when you vote for the real thing? LOL!

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  143. 30% fewer calories than the regular Trump?

    nk (bb1548)

  144. I hope Rob can reassure us the dude is just another moby leftist.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/30/2023 @ 5:48 pm

    Thanks for trolling.

    NJRob (398bfa)

  145. My bad. That should have been moby leftist troll. Thanks.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  146. 30% fewer calories than the regular Trump?

    nk (bb1548) — 9/30/2023 @ 6:17 pm

    And leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  147. I think DeSantis-Christie-Haley are the three best GOP candidates who remain that are plausible. Hutchinson-Scott-Pence-Burgum-Hurd aren’t bad candidates, I just see them getting winnowed out. Right now, I like Haley. She’s a normal Republican. Will she expand her arguments against Trump? I guess we’ll see. I hope so. There’s no point in being hyper-critical of people who are a country mile in front of Trump in terms of dignifying the office. We don’t need better candidates; we need voters to see the flaws in the leading candidate.

    AJ_Liberty (b2c084)

  148. Gingrich: ‘Trump Will Be Nominee,’ GOP Should Cancel Future Debates
    ………..
    ………….. (Newt Gingrich said Thursday on Fox News Channel’s “The Ingraham Angle”) “I was talking to our mutual friend, the pollster Matt Towery this afternoon, and Matt said to me, based on what he saw last night, this race is over, Donald Trump will be the nominee, they might as well quit having the various debates because they don’t work, they’re not helping anybody, and I think that’s where we are. I think Trump will be the nominee and the question now for everybody is do you want to see Joe Biden reelected or do you want to help Donald Trump? There’s no middle ground here, I don’t think.”

    Gingrich added, “I think the Republican National Committee should cancel the future debates and say, ‘Look, we recognize the objective fact that Trump will be the nominee. We want to work with him.”
    …………..

    Comedy Gold!

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  149. You know why Dems aren’t rallying behind Robert Menendez? Cockburn at The Spectator tells us it is payback for his opposition to Obama’s Iran Deal, and that a former Harry Reid staffer now working for John Fetterman is doing the dirty work:

    Adam Jentleson, a combative former Reid staffer, is a mover and shaker in Fetterman’s office — and the Pennsylvanian was the first Senate Democrat to demand Menendez call it quits this week, in almost personal terms: the statement went as far as to compare the Democrat to Tony Soprano.

    But why would the sweatshirt-clad gentle giant care so much? It could have something to do with how Jentleson worked for Reid, one of the Iran Deal’s most important proponents. After hemming and hawing, Reid threw his support to the Iran Deal during his final months in office — but Menendez’s fervent opposition to it made him a fly in the ointment of Senate Democrats. Jentleson himself has attacked Dems such as Representative Shontel Brown for straying from the party line on the Iran Deal in the past.

    Now, the Biden DoJ is once again throwing the kitchen sink at Menendez, giving the 2015 gang a chance to bring everyone back together. Back then, Jentleson was Reid’s deputy chief of staff for comms. And it’s not just Jentleson who’s stoked; Ben Rhodes, who admitted taking the national press corps for a spin with his creative writing background to push for a nuclear deal with the mullahs in Tehran, is also excited that Menendez may be on the outs…

    Just in case anyone wants to pretend that Democrats are actually concerned about Menendez’s using his office to enrich himself by taking money from hostile countries. Nah, it’s just about petty Obama-era bickering. No need to ascribe ethical concerns to this; in the age of Trump and Biden, those ideals are hopefully old fashioned.

    JVW (20cca9)

  150. We don’t need better candidates; we need voters to see the flaws in the leading candidate.

    AJ_Liberty (b2c084) — 9/30/2023 @ 7:11 pm

    Waiting for Godot. Trump’s personal approval among Republican voters is 78-20 according to a Yougov poll from a couple of weeks ago.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  151. this race is over, Donald Trump will be the nominee, they might as well quit having the Republican Party meet because it will go on the ash heap of history with a candidate facing life in prison.

    FIFY. Trump will be the first candidate to get zero electoral votes.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  152. How is Donald Trump like Brian Mulroney?

    (Mulroney’s ruling party only won 2 percent of the popular vote and no seats in the 1988 election)

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  153. Trump will be the first candidate to get zero electoral votes.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 9:45 pm

    LOL! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  154. Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 9:45 pm

    That assumes a lot of facts not in evidence.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  155. I think they’re grievously mistaken. Their affection and trust is misplaced. Possibly because media sources they trust have misled them, with the effect amplified by partisan social media misinformation.

    I would point to the Illusory Truth Effect
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_truth_effect
    People hear false claims often enough that they start to believe them. In part, we see it with the claim that the 2020 election was stolen. All serious investigatory individuals and groups came to a common conclusion: there was no fraud on a level sufficient to change the results in any of the swing states. Trump supporters continue to believe it though…with that false belief undoubtedly bolstering their positive feelings about Trump.

    When trusted media sources say a charge is selective prosecution, that the other guy is probably more corrupt, and that the justice system has been ideologically weaponized, it’s difficult to accept that those voices are in fact not leveling.

    But a minority…though sizable chunk…of the GOP does recognize Trump’s behavior as wrong, with many two-time-Trump voters becoming NeverTrump. So people do change. Negative ads will continue to build as we march towards actual votes. I suspect that we will hear more pointed commentary by primary opponents. Big money donors will continue to get nervous. Trump will continue to post deluded musings on social media, while refusing to have his electability honestly tested in public forums. He can’t afford to…his explanations exude weakness.

    Truth has always got a shot in my book. Every day more people pay greater attention. The first of many important polls will be in 3.5 months. The rubber will hit the road.

    AJ_Liberty (c83688)

  156. The first of many important polls will be in 3.5 months.

    We’ll see if the polls between now and January 2024 are substantially different than the polls have been over the past 6 months (I don’t think they will). Trump has increased his dominance during this timeframe, despite being indicted on four times totaling 91 separate charges.

    It is also unlikely that any of these charges will be considered by a jury before the new year, so Trump will enter the primary campaign with a presumption of innocence. And it is possible he can become the nominee on Super Tuesday, during his election subversion trial.

    As noted above, $6M in attack ads in Iowa and South Carolina only made Trump more popular.

    Rip Murdock (86bbcb)

  157. @149 I am a democrat and I am concerned, as I am concerned with biden/clinton family corruption. I had to vote green party in 2016/2020 because of it.

    asset (a9573f)

  158. @151 Can I have the other side of that bet.

    asset (a9573f)

  159. But a minority…though sizable chunk…of the GOP does recognize Trump’s behavior as wrong, with many two-time-Trump voters becoming NeverTrump.

    How big is a “sizable chunk”? My guess is the number is pretty small. That’s hard to believe when Trump’s personal approval rating among Republicans is in the mid-70s.

    Rip Murdock (86bbcb)

  160. The club for growth, heritage foundation, national review and other free trade think tanks and national conservative publications do have more then a clue ;but their donors will only fund a pro-free trade economic message. If they tell the emperor he has no cloths and populist republican voters wont vote for free trade their funding will be cut off. As AOC says in her party they have got the money We have the votes. Same in GOP. Never trumpers and donor class (who are anti-trump over free trade not morality) have similar economic agenda so they can work together.

    asset (a9573f)

  161. Here are the first two paragraphs of the annual PEPFAR report:

    When President George W. Bush announced the creation of the President’s
    Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR) in his 2003 State of the Union
    address, and the U.S. Congress quickly followed by passing the United States
    Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, Tuberculosis, and Malaria Act of 2003 in
    strong bipartisan fashion, it fundamentally changed the course of public
    health history.
    Since then, the U.S. government, with the strong unwavering support of the
    U.S. Congress, has proudly invested nearly $100 billion in the global AIDS
    response through PEPFAR and the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis
    and Malaria (Global Fund). On World AIDS Day 2022, President Biden
    announced that the U.S. government, through PEPFAR, saved more than 25
    million lives, ensured that 5.5 million babies were born HIV-free, and
    enabled more than a dozen countries to control the spread of HIV or reach
    the Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS (UNAIDS) 95-95-95 HIV
    treatment targets, even without a vaccine or a cure.

    You can find a link to the appendices, and to previous reports, here.

    Jim Miller (bcedee)

  162. In 120min of debate on Wednesday, there were exactly zero questions about Trump’s ability to win the general election while simultaneously consumed by at least one criminal trial, zero questions about an impending civil fraud conviction, zero questions about Trump’s unhinged rants about having General Milley executed, zero questions about Trump’s Schedule F executive order plans to change the work status of federal employees, and zero questions about the potential constitutional crisis of a President attempting to self-pardon himself and enact revenge on Jack Smith and the Department of Justice.

    It’s difficult for a democracy to function rationally with major media organs shielding the President from criticism and civic accountability. Again, as important as candidate positions are on Ukraine, China, debt, and immigration, this primary is fundamentally a referendum on Trumpism…which Fox is studiously trying to avoid. Future debates will not be run by partisans with an agenda. As the clock ticks on Trump’s prosecutions, we will likely see more and more meaningful plea deals…meaning people with intimate knowledge of Trump’s involvement agreeing to testify in open court.

    Conservatives sole focus as the primary season approaches should be to better inform voters and lay out the incompatability of the GOP claiming to be the party of law and order while simultaneously elevating Trump. You may argue that it is impossible. But it is critical. Arguing consistently for the inevitability of Trump does nothing but ensure a likely constitutional crisis in 2024 that might end in mass violence. It’s unclear what would be worse: a Trump win or another contested Trump loss. Every breath should be about combating illiberalism and ignorance.

    Despair is for losers.

    AJ_Liberty (c83688)

  163. Arguing consistently for the inevitability of Trump does nothing but ensure a likely constitutional crisis in 2024 that might end in mass violence. …….Despair is for losers.

    From my perspective, it’s not despair, but realism. Flailing about for non-existent candidates or what media organizations or “conservatives” should do is magical thinking that things will get better “if only……”

    I agree completely with your first paragraph, but the “debate” format and organizations were chosen by the RNC, so the lack of hard questions is all on them.

    Acknowledging the state of the primary race at any given point will not lead to a “constitutional crisis in 2024 that might end in mass violence”. That is pure hyperbole. It will be the voters in general election who will decide if there is a crisis.

    It may be correct that those indicted with Trump (in the classified documents and Georgia cases) may flip. The classified documents case really doesn’t any corroboration, as it is pretty clear that Trump was not authorized to possess the documents in the first place. The government doesn’t need the testimony of his MAL staff to make their case. And in Georgia, most of the co-conspirators never met or interacted with Trump personally, so their utility in making a case against the former president is dubious.

    In any event, Trump won’t face justice in any in criminal case until after the primary season (or at least after he has received the nomination.)

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  164. Sure, she’s made a few mistakes, but look at her. She’s hot! Gorgeous!

    Trump used PAC funds from small donors to pay Alina Habba $1.4+ million this year. What did he get in return? She checked the wrong box and failed to get paperwork in on time for his fraud lawsuit – which is why a leftist judge is deciding the case in a not a jury.

    Here’s to the rest of Trump’s legal counsel performing at this level.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  165. zero questions about Trump’s Schedule F executive order plans to change the work status of federal employees

    Personally, I think that it is a good reform to remove upper management from civil service protections. The duty to ensure the laws are faithfully executed requires the ability to remove those who would thwart that.

    As the government has grown, decision-making power has been delegated down the org chart, well into echelons protected by laws from 150 years ago. Presidents need to have the ability to select all such decision makers in the Executive branch.

    Sure, Donald Trump is not the best case to put forward, but no president can function effectively with partisan opposition from within the ranks.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  166. Here are the first two paragraphs of the annual PEPFAR report:

    In a just world, George W Bush would be a strong candidate for the Peace Prize. Perhaps shared with Bill Gates.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  167. That assumes a lot of facts not in evidence.

    Like what? His nomination? His multiple felony convictions? His inevitable statements? His upcoming penury?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  168. Matt Gaetz says he will force vote to oust McCarthy as House speaker
    ………….
    “I think we need to rip off the Band-Aid. I think we need to move on with new leadership that can be trustworthy,” Gaetz said Sunday on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

    Hard-right obstructionists in the House GOP have made clear for weeks that McCarthy would be removed if he relied on Democrats to pass any funding legislation. The introduction of the measure, called a motion to vacate, requires only one person to force the House to consider removing the speaker, a move that has never succeeded before.
    …………
    “Look, the one thing everybody has in common is that nobody trusts Kevin McCarthy,” Gaetz said. “He lied to Biden, he lied to House conservatives. He had appropriators marking to a different number altogether.”

    McCarthy, Gaetz said, broke a promise made to hard-right conservatives during the speakership fight that the chamber would move to single spending bills. Gaetz also said McCarthy promised the conference 72 hours to read the bill, and that the budget would return to pre-covid spending levels. Neither of those things happened.
    …………..
    …………..(I)f more than five hard-liners vote in favor of deposing McCarthy, Republicans will need Democrats to help overcome that margin. But their help, if it is ever given, would come at a significant price.
    …………..
    While Gaetz is criticizing McCarthy over his decision to work with Democrats to pass a continuing resolution, he would need Democratic support to oust McCarthy. Speaking to “This Week,” however, Gaetz said he expects Democrats — who famously oppose McCarthy — to protect him.

    “If at this time next week, Kevin McCarthy is still speaker of the House, it will be because the Democrats bailed them out and he can be their speaker, not mine,” Gaetz said.
    ……………

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  169. Trump seems desperate to remove all opposition to his coronation, as well as to delay his several trials. He knows that, as he begins to be crushed by civil and criminal cases, and his supporters have to reconcile the many facts that will come out, existing credible opposition will start to look attractive and his candidacy will wane.

    Even if he has the nomination “wrapped up” before the first guilty verdicts come in, the Convention can still find a way to choose someone else — it would take only a majority vote to free his delegates for cause, or even to bar him from nomination if the stink gets too bad.

    So, he wants to preempt. It’s sad that Gingrich has become Giuliani.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  170. I think we need to move on with new leadership that can be trustworthy,” Gaetz said Sunday

    Which of these things is not like the other thing.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  171. Like what? His nomination? His multiple felony convictions? His inevitable statements? His upcoming penury?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 7:46 am

    If Trump is nominated (highly likely) and is convicted on any of the federal or Georgia indictments, I would expect some states (certainly in the south) to still vote for him.

    But you should make the case for your assertion. Why do believe he will not receive any electoral votes?

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  172. Even if he has the nomination “wrapped up” before the first guilty verdicts come in, the Convention can still find a way to choose someone else — it would take only a majority vote to free his delegates for cause, or even to bar him from nomination if the stink gets too bad.

    LOL! 🤣🤣🤣🤣 A convention full of Trump true believers voting against him? What RNC rules would allow his delegates to be taken away (be specific)? If Trump has a majority of the delegates they would rather strip them from the Lilliputians and award them to Trump.

    Talk about magical thinking!

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  173. I encourage Gaetz and the House Freedom Caucus to revolt and form their own party. The “Freedom Party” would be about right, and their beliefs would be in line with similarly named parties in Europe. Although maybe they’d have to merge with the “American Freedom Party.”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  174. What RNC rules would allow his delegates to be taken away (be specific)?

    The same rules that Reagan tried in 1976 and Teddy Kennedy tried in 1980. A majority vote of the delegates can change any rule, even now:

    https://prod-static.gop.com/media/Rules_of_the_Republican_Party_090921.pdf

    RULE NO. 32
    Suspension of Rules
    A motion to suspend the rules shall always be in order, but only when made by authority of a majority of the delegates from any state and seconded by a majority of the delegates from each of seven (7) or more other states, severally.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  175. So, if by August 2024, Trump stands convicted of multiple violations of the Espionage Act, obstruction of Congress, conspiracy to defraud the United States, and operating a criminal conspiracy to corruptly overturn the will of the voters in Georgia, the delegates will have to decide if this is really the face they want to put on the Republican Party, knowing that many Republicans will refuse to go along.

    Even getting to this point will probably split the GOP forever, and a large convention walkout is almost inevitable.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  176. Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:09 am

    Again, it is highly unlikely that a convention dominated by Trump delegates, with a leadership controlled by Trump, would ever do such a thing. Any replacement candidate would lose Trump’s voters in November.

    Further, such an action would lead no doubt to the threat of political violence by MAGAWorld.

    Republican convention fantasy camp. Just. Not. Gonna. Happen.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  177. It is also likely that any number of states will, after these convictions (particularly the GA ones), refuse Trump ballot access. Including a number of swing states, like Georgia, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan. The prospect of not being on enough ballots to actually win should weigh on the delegates.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  178. Even getting to this point will probably split the GOP forever, and a large convention walkout is almost inevitable.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:17 am

    Is that a bad thing?

    Rip Murdock (86bbcb)

  179. It is also likely that any number of states will, after these convictions (particularly the GA ones), refuse Trump ballot access. Including a number of swing states, like Georgia, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan. The prospect of not being on enough ballots to actually win should weigh on the delegates.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:21 am

    More magical thinking. Even if this happens, it will be litigated and Trump’s removal will be blocked by the courts.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  180. Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:21 am

    Unless those states have specific laws that allow for such removal, I doubt they will succeed in barring Trump from their ballots.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  181. @180

    Unless those states have specific laws that allow for such removal, I doubt they will succeed in barring Trump from their ballots.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 8:30 am

    Even then, I don’t think states can remove Trump.

    Unfortunately, there’s no provision in the Constitution to prevent a convicted felony from winning the Presidency.

    whembly (a43e5a)

  182. Yesterday was a day.
    The GOP passed a Putin-friendly spending resolution, the same day as Neville Chamberlain’s “peace in our time” speech and, per Dana’s link above, the same day that Russia celebrates their Day of Celebration of Russian Conquest.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  183. @137

    Here’s one person’s advice:

    “For those Republicans who can’t vote for Biden because he’s a Democrat, I recommend that they buck up and vote for Biden anyway. I voted Republican all my life until Trump. If I can do it, so can they.”

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/30/2023 @ 5:48 pm

    My response to that author…
    Stick it where the sun done shine homie.

    Democrats has pushed policies far more destructive that would take many years (if ever!) to unwind than any shenanigans Trump may have perpetuated.

    The time to push for your preferred candidates is to be actively engaged in politics at grassroots AND during the primaries. You may not succeed in THIS cycle, but there are term limits for some office AND there’s a next cycle for you to lay down the groundwork.

    Losing out on your preferred candidate and actively voting for Democrats because you don’t like the way your party is going is embracing Calvinism and you’d lose the opportunity to be “in the party” during the years for the setup in the next cycle. And you’d be responsible to all the awful policies Democrats are pushing.

    Instead of being “in the now, instant gratification mindset“, we’d all be better off having a longer term mindset. A Trump-led administration for another 4 years isn’t going to “break” the US. It’ll be chaotic af, yes and the opposition will be turned to 11 again.

    However, I think DeSantis (or even another candidate) may have a chance to win the primaries. You never know.

    And before Rip goes LOL! Trump’s up by eleventy infinity billion…

    HRC was up by that much in the GE on election night in 2015, with far more respected pollings. Just to show, polls often times gets it wrong.

    whembly (a43e5a)

  184. “And in Georgia, most of the co-conspirators never met or interacted with Trump”

    Meadows, Chesebro, Powell?

    AJ_Liberty (c83688)

  185. As political pranks go, this one wasn’t bad.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  186. Unfortunately, there’s no provision in the Constitution to prevent a convicted felony from winning the Presidency.

    Amendment 14 will come into play. Watch and learn.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  187. “And in Georgia, most of the co-conspirators never met or interacted with Trump”

    That’s not necessary. Only that they were part of a criminal operation that was orchestrated by Trump. Most of John Gotti’s family never met John Gotti.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  188. HRC was up by that much in the GE on election night in 2015

    “Inevitable”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  189. Unless those states have specific laws that allow for such removal, I doubt they will succeed in barring Trump from their ballots.

    Supreme Courts can do amazing things if they have the will. Just look at all the election changes in 2020 that state courts wrought.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  190. More magical thinking. Even if this happens, it will be litigated and Trump’s removal will be blocked by the courts.

    Outside of equal protection considerations, the federal courts have utterly no jurisdiction regarding presidential elections in the states.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  191. Meadows, Chesebro, Powell?

    AJ_Liberty (c83688) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:10 am

    Three out of 17.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  192. And before Rip goes LOL! Trump’s up by eleventy infinity billion…

    HRC was up by that much in the GE on election night in 2015, with far more respected pollings. Just to show, polls often times gets it wrong.

    whembly (a43e5a) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:07 am

    HRC never commanded the personal loyalty that Trump does. I doubt her personal approval ever can close to Trump’s 70+.

    LOL!

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  193. And I’m not talking about the general election, which is a different dynamic. I focused on the Republican primary.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  194. Giuliani, Eastman, Clark, Ellis…

    Eastman may go to his grave before turning, but the rest?

    AJ_Liberty (c83688)

  195. Amendment 14 will come into play. Watch and learn.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:16 am

    LOL! Trump won’t be convicted of insurrection or rebellion, since he hasn’t been charged with either. Not is the President an “ officer of the United States,” but that is another discussion. The current Supreme Court doesn’t think so.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  196. Giuliani, Eastman, Clark, Ellis…

    Eastman may go to his grave before turning, but the rest?

    AJ_Liberty (c83688) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:42 am

    True believers. The only ones that will flip before trial will be the low level defendants, like the fake electors and others whose legal bills aren’t being paid by Trump.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  197. @195

    Not is the President an “ officer of the United States,” but that is another discussion. The current Supreme Court doesn’t think so.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:45 am

    I think this is right.

    The Office of the Presidency is a distinctly, unique animal and our founders were WELL aware what they were doing.

    The President is a civilian office with unique inherent powers.

    whembly (a43e5a)

  198. Supreme Courts can do amazing things if they have the will. Just look at all the election changes in 2020 that state courts wrought.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:20 am

    -——————————————-

    Outside of equal protection considerations, the federal courts have utterly no jurisdiction regarding presidential elections in the states.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 9:22 am

    So you’re advocating that State Supreme Courts perform extrajudicial activism in pursuit of a policy goal you favor?

    And I never said anything about the federal courts.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  199. Well-played, lurker. As a bonus, Rob and whembly both revealed they are don’t read links.

    DRJ (f2c6b8)

  200. Amendment 14 will come into play. Watch and learn.

    Where’s the specific language that covers felony convictions for presidents?

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  201. I think this is right.

    I think this is pedantry.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  202. Where’s the specific language that covers felony convictions for presidents?

    All that is needed is for state courts to decide that Trump engaged in an insurrection. Their standard of proof is … their standard of proof.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  203. So you’re advocating that State Supreme Courts perform extrajudicial activism in pursuit of a policy goal you favor?

    I am advocating nothing, any more than you are advocating a Trump nomination.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  204. Morning Consult-Support for Trump Surges After Second GOP Debate
    …………
    Former President Donald Trump’s support in the Republican presidential primary has reached a record high, according to our tracking of the contest, after his rivals squared off in a chaotic second GOP debate.

    Pre-Debate Ranking/Post Debate Ranking

    Trump 58/63

    DeSantis 15/12

    Ramaswamy 9/7

    Pence 6/5

    Haley 7/5

    Christie 2/3

    Scott 2/2

    Hutchinson 1/1

    Burgum 1/1

    ……………
    ………… Trump’s improvement by the one-day metric tracks with movement we’re seeing in the three-day surveys, meaning some of the upward trajectory in his support came before the Sept. 27 debate.

    This data reinforces our view that Trump is in the driver’s seat of the Republican primary, and that Trump-less debates aren’t having much of an impact on the other candidates’ national support, and may in fact be helping the former president. ………..
    ##########

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  205. All that is needed is for state courts to decide that Trump engaged in an insurrection. Their standard of proof is … their standard of proof.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:45 am

    Fourteenth Amendment fantasy camp.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  206. All that is needed is for state courts to decide that Trump engaged in an insurrection. Their standard of proof is … their standard of proof.

    “All” is doing a lot of heavy lifting, Kevin. At this point, it’s arguable that Trump could be denied on 14th Amendment grounds, and any state court decision would likely get tested in the Supreme Court. I’ve read the arguments by Tribe and others, but I’d rather see a brighter line, like a seditious conspiracy indictment. But we’ll how the Colorado case goes.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  207. Paul, please tell me what the Supreme Court will use to get around the Constitution making presidential elections state-run. It’s not like the situation in Romer, where it was a congressional election — which IS federal — and is given to Congress to regulate.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  208. Ooops. Not Romer, but US Term Limits. Faulty memory.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  209. Will the GOP oust McCarthy? If so, will they elect him again?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  210. Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:06 am

    Since any disqualification by a state court would be under the 14th Amendment involves interpreting the US Constitution, it would be appealable to the US Supreme Court.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  211. In a just world, George W Bush would be a strong candidate for the Peace Prize. Perhaps shared with Bill Gates.

    In a serious world, a peace prize would not be named after the inventor of modern munitions and the owner of more than 90 armaments factories at the times of his death.

    So, yeah, by that standard, George W. Bush could receive the Nobel. Bill Gates has done nothing to deserve such degradation.

    nk (bb1548)

  212. Paul, please tell me what the Supreme Court will use to get around the Constitution making presidential elections state-run.

    The Supremacy Clause. States determine the time, place and manner, but it’s still a national election. You could even argue that the 14th Amendment is an argument against denying Trump, under equal protection grounds. Is it kosher for every single state to set their own separate standards for what constitutes involvement in an insurrection or rebellion?
    Of course, IANAL, but neither are you.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  213. Bill Gates has done nothing to deserve such degradation.

    Well, those goalposts kinda went chaotic here, but Gates has done quite a bit — with his own money — to eradicate malaria.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  214. Will the GOP oust McCarthy? If so, will they elect him again?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:09 am

    Only with support from the Democrats.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  215. Since any disqualification by a state court would be under the 14th Amendment involves interpreting the US Constitution, it would be appealable to the US Supreme Court.

    States can incorporate federal protections more broadly than the federal courts require. They could, for example, extend press rights to bloggers, at least within the state. They could extend jury trials to state civil courts, which not all do. And they could protect voters from insurrectionists seeking to get on the STATE ballot.

    Admittedly a congressional candidate would have some federal recourse, but someone seeking the state’s electors? JFK was not on every state ballot in 1960, for far less reason.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  216. Note that no state is even required to HOLD a popular election for president. They can conduct said election as they see fit. I see no reason why they cannot impose a no-felony rule, or failing that, revert the election to the legislature should a felon be nominated.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  217. I see no reason why they cannot impose a no-felony rule, or failing that, revert the election to the legislature should a felon be nominated.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:27 am

    That may be, but has any state created such a rule? I’m not sure about reverting the election to the legislature, but I think the citizens would revolt at the inability to vote for the candidate of their choice.

    You’re just spitballing ideas which have no basis in reality.

    LOL! Stop Trump by any means necessary fantasy camp.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  218. You’re just spitballing ideas which have no basis in reality.

    No, I’m showing that the federal government cannot force a state to put someone on their ballot.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  219. I see no reason why they cannot impose a no-felony rule, or failing that, revert the election to the legislature should a felon be nominated.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:27 am

    A no-felon rule would probably be an unconstitutional addition to the qualifications to be president.

    To paraphrase Roper in A Man For All Seasons, you seem to be willing to tear down democracy to get to the Devil himself.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  220. No, I’m showing that the federal government cannot force a state to put someone on their ballot.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:41 am

    States control the “time, place and manner” of elections. They can’t add additional requirements to appear on the ballot. When California required presidential candidates to release their tax returns, a federal court enjoined enforcement, saying it violated the Qualifications Clause (U.S. Const., art. II, § 1, cl. 5.), citing your favorite case, U.S. Term Limits.

    There the Court held that the Framers intended the foregoing language to “fix as exclusive the qualifications in the Constitution,” “thereby divest[ing] States of any power to add qualifications.” Id. at 801, 806. The Court reasoned that “the text and structure of the Constitution, the relevant historical materials, and, most importantly, the “‘basic principles of our democratic system’ all demonstrate that the Qualifications Clauses were intended to preclude the States from exercising any such power . . . . ” Id. at 806.

    Significantly, the Court rejected any notion that a state can cloak an otherwise impermissible qualification as a ballot access issue subject to regulation by the states under the Elections Clause,8 stating that states cannot indirectly create new eligibility requirements by “dressing eligibility to stand for [public office] in ballot access clothing.” Id. at 831.

    The federal court also said the California law violated the First Amendment rights of political candidates by limiting access to the primary ballot; as we as the 14th Amendment’s equal protection clause.

    So any law that would ban felons from the ballot would clearly be unconstitutional.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  221. HRC held tremendous loyalty among Democrat Party women in LA, SF, NYC and almost all large blue metro areas. She had tremendous loyalty among Democrat Party men and women in nearly every state university town in America. She had loyalty from Party chairwoman Wasserman Schultz and she was the tip of the iceberg of powerful Democrat elites and party donors from Hollywood to Silicon Valley, East to Wall Street. She had the loyalty of nearly every large legal firm in every blue metro area. She had loyalty of entirety of the Washington DC party elite, and of nearly every union boss in the land. Heck, I’ll throw the entire WNBA and USWNT soccer in there for the fun of it.
    What she did not have was the loyalty of everyone below the above folks on the status scale. She was counting on the herd to follow the elites

    HRC continues to provide a good lesson there. Trumposaurus is the opposite. He has Zero loyalty in all of those elite enclaves and cohorts mentioned above and 90% of the elites hatred, but he managed to portray himself as a populist who would fight for the intensely loyal 40% of the country the elites call slack-jawed deplorables. Just because someone lives in a Louisiana swamp, talks like Louie Gohmert, voted for Trump, doesn’t mean they are stupid. I’ve worked my whole life with under educated, uneducated, unsophisticated, very smart, tough, resourceful people who are very loyal to people who recognize and facilitate them.
    HRC summed up her ignorance when she cackled “Why am I not 50 points ahead?”. Answer was: You were ahead by 50 points- amongst the people you care about. Too bad for you the USA has a 40-45% of people who are fine that the elites don’t like them and they wear it proudly, and they will vote.

    Identity politics has a weakness. I don’t know if anyone remembers the HRC speeches where she checked all the identity group boxes and thought she’d won by doing so? Ummmm, you left out the rest of the country? 5-10% of those identity groups will vote their own way. 5-10% won’t show up That 40% you disrespected? Oh. They will show up.

    steveg (fe3094)

  222. Comedy Gold!

    House GOP members are preparing a motion to expel Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fla., amid his renewed threat to pursue a motion to vacate House Speaker Kevin McCarthy.

    The House Republican members will seek to expel Gaetz if the ethics committee report comes back with findings of guilt, Fox News has learned. One member told Fox News the report is mostly written but does not know what it contains. Yet following threats to vacate McCarthy, the member said of Gaetz, “No one can stand him at this point. A smart guy without morals.”

    It takes a two-thirds vote to expel. And Republicans are treading on thin ice with their majority. ………
    ………….
    The House Ethics Committee has been investigating Gaetz since 2021 on allegations, including campaign finance violations as well as claims of taking bribes and using drugs – accusations the congressman has vehemently denied. Gaetz also denies allegations leaked from a Justice Department sex trafficking probe said to have involved an underage girl.
    …………

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  223. References to the 2016 election and HRC are so irrelevant to today. She is only important to those whose heads she lives in.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  224. So the answer to the Democrats and neverTrumpers who wring their hands with questions of why Republicans are stuck with Trump have themselves somewhat to blame. They disrespected the wrong group of people and that group has a long memory for that type of insult. That group feel disrespected when the GOP talks about moving on… “not without us you’re not”. Democrats are not dumb, so they’ve taken advantage of this loyalty and stoked it. A divided GOP is in their best interest. This is expected. They know Democrats hate them and are OK with it. That the GOP elites despise them hurts and the disrespect will be returned with interest.

    steveg (fe3094)

  225. The military spends quite a bit of time on lessons learned from past conflicts. Court decisions from over a century ago are still relevant today, and they are still studied to today by the very smart people but OK. Elections are different

    steveg (fe3094)

  226. One of the big questions in this election will be where goes the group with intense loyalty to Trump. I believe that saga began in the HRC for President era and persists. Why does it persist? I dunno, I only want to study 2022-23.
    I think these Trump loyalists need to reached out to and convinced to move forward away from Trump, but go ahead and keep chastising them for their votes in 2016 and 2020- its worked like a charm so far- for Biden

    steveg (fe3094)

  227. A no-felon rule would probably be an unconstitutional addition to the qualifications to be president.

    US Term Limits only applies to federal elections. What part of “Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors” did you not understand?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  228. @221, You don’t have to be stupid to fall for a con man, just vulnerable and maybe a little desperate. Con men figure out what people want, then promise them the world, while bilking them along the way. Only the con man can provide them what they want and it will be the greatest ever. The longer you believe in the con, the harder it is to admit you’ve been scammed. As a con progresses, the victims are repeatedly asked to commit: to re-invest, to raise the stakes, to reassert their beliefs — I mean you gotta fight fight fight if you want to keep your country, right? The scam relies on the wishful identification with Trump — they want to win, hate, and bully as he does. They want the fabulous rich lifestyle and callipygian model arm candy. They want to live vicariously through Trump. When he wins, they win.

    Trump has turned politics into his next Trump University and Trump Steaks. He mined Talk Radio for people’s insecurities and prejudices and targeted that. One might say, well, smart politics, except the only thing he truly delivered on…the Supreme Court…required just listening to the Federalist Society three times. Otherwise, a fair bit of losing and now an agenda that is headlined by retribution and vengeance. What can go wrong? Four indictments, an impending civil fraud verdict and potential bankruptcy, and the GOP wants to go a long for the ride, enjoying the drama and all of that winning. Again, is it smart to want someone as your nominee who will have to deal with four felony cases plus the civil fraud case? It seems at minimum a little self-indulgent to me. Character matters. Being a decent person matters. At some point, you have to do more than just give the middle finger to people you hate.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  229. States control the “time, place and manner” of elections.

    That’s Article I. Article II, which controls here, has a different prescription. US Term Limits v Thornton only pertains to Article I elections.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  230. Article I, Section i, Clause 5 states:

    The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

    It says NOTHING about how the states choose electors, only when. You really need to [explicit direction omitted] go read the damn thing. Arricle I and Article II have quite different rules for elections.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  231. Article I, Section i, Clause 5 states

    Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 states…

    (See what you did!)

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  232. I think these Trump loyalists need to reached out to and convinced to move forward away from Trump, ………..

    LOL! Trump is part of their identity, why would the reject a part of themselves? Trump loyalists would make the Republican Party even more conspiratorial than it already is. What could possibly convince them to abandon Trump, especially if he is imprisoned.

    The answer should be to let the Trumpists have the Republican Party (they control most of its power centers anyway) and build a new Conservative Party that challenges MAGA candidates in 2026 and runs presidential candidates in 2028. Let MAGA whither on the vine.

    As Kevin M brought up above, a good place to start would be a walkout by non-Trump delegates if Trump is nominated for President.

    But they won’t.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  233. Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 1:49 pm

    US Term Limits does discuss the Qualifications Clause, which will prohibit the states from imposing a no-felon rule on candidates to access the ballot. I was not discussing how a state allocates its electors, a different issue.

    Rip Murdock (86bbcb)

  234. Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 1:49 pm

    States have delegated the responsibility for its electors to the political parties. Only Utah addresses what happens when a candidate has a felony conviction, but candidate is not disqualified from the ballot:

    Any elector who casts an electoral ballot for a person not nominated by the party of which he is an elector, except in the cases of death or felony conviction of a candidate, is considered to have resigned from the office of elector, his vote may not be recorded, and the remaining electors shall appoint another person to fill the vacancy.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  235. But the case (USTLvT) only touched upon direct elections of Article I officers. The voters do not vote for President, they vote for Electors. All the qualification Clause does is limits those candidates that Electors may consider.

    How the Electors are chosen is strictly a state matter. The whole idea of pledged Electors and candidate names on the ballot is outside of the federal Constitution. Some states, at least until recently, simply listed the Elector candidates without reference to whom they were pledged to.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  236. Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 1:49 pm

    Do you think the Qualifications Clause allows states to bar a candidate with a felony conviction from appearing on the ballot?

    Rip Murdock (86bbcb)

  237. To the best of my knowledge, no vote by a “faithless” elector has ever been discarded. I’d argue that once electors are chosen the process now operates under the federal constitution and state laws or other wishes are immaterial. The first Amendment may offer some defense to a faithless elector facing state criminal charges.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  238. Thoughts?

    “Autocracies and democracies both select leaders via a competitive process, so you often get leaders who are risk takers and have an action bias. They often suffer from a survivorship bias as well.

    This is too dangerous.

    The solution is embracing what I call elite sortition. To be precise: selecting leaders via a lottery amongst the smartest people in a polity. Not experts! One problem with experts is that a lot of expertise is questionable, or even obviously fake. In part because they’re often intellectually incestuous (the echo chamber effect).

    Extremely intelligent people should be able to govern effectively if a bunch of other stuff is put in place. I don’t want to be become too technical on Twitter.

    My great worry is that autocracies may permanently be stuck with autocracy, and democracies with democracy.

    @PieterOmtzigt”

    I think this is unworkable. Too many smart people mistake credentials (pedigree), academic achievement, for intelligence. Also elites won’t trust reaching out to smart people outside their class structure

    steveg (fe3094)

  239. Do you think the Qualifications Clause allows states to bar a candidate with a felony conviction from appearing on the ballot?

    Not in Congressional Elections, no. That’s been decided.

    But presidential elections are indirect, and states have vast leeway regarding selection of Electors*. They may condition the choosing of Electors as they see fit, so long as they are not an Officer of the United States. I see no reason why they cannot refuse to print some candidate’s name on the ballot for such cause as they feel is disqualifying. The ELECTOR, of course, might well vote for the felon anyway.

    ———
    *barring equal protection claims under the 14th Amendment

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  240. Do you think the Qualifications Clause allows states to bar a candidate with a felony conviction from appearing on the ballot?

    Nor (since 1969) has Congress had the power to refuse a felon a seat. But again, that’s Congress.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  241. Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 2:30 pm

    I have talking in the context of the presidential election.

    Anyway, this colloquy has been a fun episode of the Stop Trump By Any Means Necessary fantasy camp. Let me know if any state takes up your suggestions.

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  242. From Phillips O’Brien (no idea who he is)
    This story points out one of the great fallacies of strategic relations over the last 150 years. There has been a notion that if states establish mutually beneficial economic relations it will make war less likely between then. Doesn’t seem to work.

    ft.com
    Merkel’s policies left Germany too reliant on Russian gas, adviser admits
    Top economics aide says the ex-chancellor had little choice after deciding to phase out nuclear power

    O’Brien responds to those who say this is different because the Russia-Germany interdependence was inherently unequal in the sense that Russia held the upper hand, wielded an inordinate measure of power in the relationship by pivoting to asking this question about China.
    Interesting to read all the reactions. How about this as an example. US-Chinese trade has grown enormously in the last 30 years. Has it made conflict between the two less likely?

    Two other thoughts on the subject:
    Karam Macro
    @KaramMacro
    ·
    “It’s a human construct, not a machine. And so will occasionally fail when there are too many bad decisions and bad actors. But the principle remains sound.”

    My question in response would be: Given that there are always bad actors, and always bad decision makers, is the principle sound given that utopian and dystopian are only a regime change or an election change away?

    Tim Starr
    @timstarr2001

    “Trade is a consequence of peace, not a cause of it.”

    I think money (personal prosperity) makes people blind and deaf, and/or fat, dumb, happy. Russia never stopped saying that it wanted to get the eastern europe band back together and continued to act out against its neighbors. Russia never stopped saying it felt Europe would be a better place for Russia if Germany was under the Russian thumb. But Germany ignored all of that because they need cheap energy for their wealth and prosperity.

    The US Ok’d Russia owning a controlling interest in US Uranium and issued the following overly optimistic statement:
    “As NRC explained in a March 2011 letter to Republican Sen. John Barrasso of Wyoming, the Russian company would have to… “commit to use the material only for peaceful purposes” in accordance with “the U.S.-Russia Atomic Energy Act Section 123 agreement for peaceful nuclear cooperation.”
    Given that often several times a day, state run Russian media calls for using ALL weapons in the Russian arsenal while using nuclear imagery like mushroom clouds, I think it is safe to assume that Russian promises are best not trusted. I believe that the expressed threat of using the materials in a conflict is extortive, not peaceful.

    I think that the trend of the western world cutting reliance on Chinese goods is reflective of the breakdown in trust that this is a two way street. Sure the basics remain in place. The west still can buy chinese products cheaper than it would cost to make those same products in house, but the Chinese have used the proceeds to project power in hegemonistic ways, protecting and expanding wealth, by projecting the capability of force and intimidation.

    The world tends to operate cyclically and it seems we are entering a cycle that is responding to unbalances not in trade, but in the unbalances in trust caused by China and Russia’s internal perceptions regarding expansion and projection of control

    steveg (fe3094)

  243. Rip

    I think Trump did well and continues to do well with people who identified with most of the Tea Party platform 2014 and took a buttload of crap for it. People who deeply resented being smeared as racist by media, CBC and Speaker Pelosi because they expressed their thoughts on the matter in the public square, thoughts that perhaps were not delivered or articulated in an acceptable fashion to elites of both parties, but when translation was plainly and kindly done primarily revolved around wanting to be heard, respected, and having representation in that public square.
    Those people feel like Trump heard them, respected them then and still does now and that instilled deep loyalty.
    To avoid offending sensibilities, I’ll fast forward past HRC to 2024 and ask you how you would complete a rapprochement with this group, or are they seen by you as undesirables that are unredeemable? In which case we throw in the towel until they all die off, or whatever thoughts you have are welcome?

    thanks in advance

    steveg (fe3094)

  244. Apologies for spamming the board with my sometimes incoherent thought processes. I’m unusually concerned today that the US and the world are on a tightrope. War in Ukraine could spread to Europe Slovakia elected a pro-Putin leader, Serbia is saber- rattling around Kosovo, Iran, NK and the Palestinians remain unpredictable, China will eventually take Taiwan when their internal calculations pencil out in their favor, maybe tomorrow?
    Not that any of this is all that new, or unique, just feeling uncertain of where the tipping point is and the real stuff kicks off.

    thanks for your indulgence

    steveg (fe3094)

  245. China will eventually take Taiwan when their internal calculations pencil out in their favor, maybe tomorrow?

    I heard or read an interesting point, either in The Spectator or on some podcast — I can’t recall — pointing out that China has no reason to invade Taiwan. It would be too costly militarily, and even someone as stupid and useless as Joe Biden would probably react negatively (or, more accurately, the people around Joe Biden would convince him to react negatively). The person making this point suggested that there is a slight chance that China might invade Taiwan shortly after the U.S. election next year, especially if it is as chaotic and divisive as the previous ones have been, but the stronger likelihood is that China just sits and plays the long game knowing damn well that Taiwan will be fully under its control and that the pro-democracy forces will be crushed within the next 20 years if not within the next 5 or 10.

    JVW (0522b4)

  246. I think this is charitable as I could ever be towards Trump voters:

    Audra Favor : I can’t imagine eating a dog and not thinking anything of it.

    John Russell : You even been hungry, lady? Not just ready for supper. Hungry enough so that your belly swells?

    Audra Favor : I wouldn’t care how hungry I got. I know I wouldn’t eat one of those camp dogs.

    Trump being the aforementioned canine repast.

    nk (2179e5)

  247. Comedy Gold!

    Former President Donald Trump is making plans to appear in person for his civil fraud trial in New York on Monday, multiple sources familiar with the planning told CNN.

    Law enforcement and court employees have been making security preparations for Trump’s potential appearance at the courthouse in Lower Manhattan on Monday and possibly Tuesday.
    …………..
    Trump’s plans started to become clear after a federal judge in Florida granted his request to postpone a deposition in a separate case because it would conflict with the start of the New York trial.

    The former president will fly to New York City on Sunday evening following a campaign event in Ottumwa, Iowa, and will spend the night at Trump Tower in Manhattan, three sources familiar with his schedule said.

    The civil fraud case – brought in September 2022 by New York Attorney General Letitia James against Trump, his eldest sons, their companies and several executives – will begin at 10 a.m. Monday.
    ……………

    Rip Murdock (86bbcb)

  248. Gavin Newsom to Appoint Laphonza Butler to Fill Dianne Feinstein’s Senate Seat
    ……………
    Butler, a longtime labor leader in California, heads up (Emily’s List) which funds female candidates who support abortion rights for office. She would become the first openly gay U.S. senator from California, and only the second Black woman to represent the state in the Senate. She is expected to be sworn in as early as this week.
    ………….
    ………….It wasn’t immediately clear if Butler would run for a full term, but there were no conditions set by Newsom that she sit out the race, according to two sources familiar with the discussions. Democrats are heavily favored to keep control of the seat.
    #########

    Rip Murdock (9bf210)

  249. I think Trump did well and continues to do well with people who identified with most of the Tea Party platform 2014 and took a buttload of crap for it.

    I’m pretty sure that people like me and our host are exceptions to that. Probably others here as well. The Tea Party was about smaller government and balanced budgets, 2 things that Trump had no interest in. It was essentially a revolt of the bourgeoisie; Trump’s folk are something else entirely.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  250. Gavin Newsom to Appoint Laphonza Butler

    Caligula’s horse would vote as reliably.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  251. China just sits and plays the long game knowing damn well that Taiwan will be fully under its control and that the pro-democracy forces will be crushed within the next 20 years if not within the next 5 or 10.

    China’s upcoming Great Depression may force it to kick the table over.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  252. Which is worse:

    President Joe Biden defending Taiwan in a shooting war with China, or
    President Donald Trump defending Taiwan in a shooting war with China.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  253. Gavin Newsom to Appoint Laphonza Butler

    Will anyone have the cohones to call Gavin Newsom a racist for using race and sex as his sole consideration? Is this a violation of Prop 209?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  254. Will anyone have the cohones to call Gavin Newsom a racist for using race and sex as his sole consideration? Is this a violation of Prop 209?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:30 pm

    No and yes.

    NJRob (b78b4c)

  255. @199

    Well-played, lurker. As a bonus, Rob and whembly both revealed they are don’t read links.

    DRJ (f2c6b8) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:10 am

    In my defense, I was at work that has twitter blocked.

    So, lurker was playing games here by obfuscating that.

    But my sentiment remains unchanged.

    whembly (5f7596)

  256. @207

    Paul, please tell me what the Supreme Court will use to get around the Constitution making presidential elections state-run. It’s not like the situation in Romer, where it was a congressional election — which IS federal — and is given to Congress to regulate.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 11:06 am

    How’s this for pedantry…

    Yes, the states are tasked to run their elections.

    But the states don’t set the Constitutional requirements for federal offices.

    You are conflating the two.

    whembly (5f7596)

  257. But the states don’t set the Constitutional requirements for federal offices.

    You are conflating the two.

    No, you are. The states run elections for ELECTORS, not presidential candidates. So the requirements for that office are not germane to the state’s election. The Constitution places only one rule on Electors — they cannot simultaneously hold any office of trust or profit under the United States. However, states may impose additional rules (within the bounds of the 14th Amendment). They could, for example require them to be over 50.

    As far as the actual election is concerned, any candidate names on the ballot are only there because the state legislature has said they should be there. It’s not required, and in past years states have not done that, listing only the candidates for Elector. So, excluding Trump’s name from the ballot would not be adding to the qualifications for the Presidency, but merely restricting whom an Elector could be bound to.

    The Elector, of course, may vote as he wishes.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  258. Congratulations to Katalin Karikó and Dr. Drew Weissman for the 2023 Nobel Prize in Medicine.

    Karikó, a molecular biologist, and Weissman, an immunologist, realized during that chance encounter at the University of Pennsylvania in the 1990s that they could combine their work exploring messenger RNA’s potential in drugs or vaccines. They went on to prove they could modify mRNA, a kind of molecular worker bee that carries instructions encoded in DNA, so that it could be used safely and effectively. But many scientists doubted that the technology could be integrated into vaccines.

    Years later, as drugmakers raced to develop vaccines against Covid-19, it was mRNA technology that powered widely used shots from Pfizer–BioNTech and Moderna. The Nobel committee credited Karikó’s and Weissman’s work with saving millions of lives.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  259. Will anyone have the cohones to call Gavin Newsom a racist for using race and sex as his sole consideration? Is this a violation of Prop 209?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:30 pm

    No and yes.

    NJRob (b78b4c) — 10/2/2023 @ 5:51 am

    Wrong. Proposition 209 barred discrimination in public contracting, public education, and public employment by the State of California and its political subdivisions. It did not restrict the governor’s constitutional authority to make appointments.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  260. https://hotair.com/david-strom/2023/10/02/man-gets-180-days-in-workhouse-and-probation-after-raping-child-for-years-n581714

    HotAir
    Man gets 180 days in workhouse and probation after raping child for years
    DAVID STROM 10:01 AM on October 02, 2023
    Man gets 180 days in workhouse and probation after raping child for years
    welcomia/iStock/Getty Images Plus
    The county in which I live, Hennepin County Minnesota, elected a Soros prosecutor last year, and she has been letting criminals run wild ever since she took office.

    Advertisement
    An example? Consider the case of Devin James Hultin, a 22-year-old man who began raping a relative who at the time was 9 years old. He was convicted only of rapes that took place while he was a minor, but his victim insists the sexual abuse took place when he was an adult as well.

    The rapes began when he was supposed to be babysitting her.

    Over the objections of his victim’s family, a 22-year-old Robbinsdale man was spared prison and instead ordered to serve six months in custody after pleading guilty to sexually assaulting a girl seven years younger than him when they were minors.

    Devin James Hultin received the sentence following his conviction in Hennepin County District Court of first-degree criminal sexual conduct, which carries a presumptive sentence of 12 years. The abuse started in 2017 when the victim was 9 and Hultin was 16. Hultin, who is related to the girl, admitted to at least one assault, but the victim said he abused her multiple times up until 2020. The next year, after she became increasingly isolated and suicidal, she told her mother and it was reported to police.

    Prosecutors explained at Hultin’s sentencing Wednesday why they don’t support him serving any prison time, despite strong opposition to this from the victim’s family. The family was initially told by the first prosecutor on the case that the state would seek an eight-year prison term, according to three sources familiar with the matter.

    Biden’s America with leftist prosecutors.

    NJRob (e64f54)

  261. It did not restrict the governor’s constitutional authority to make appointments.

    What he did was contrary to the spirit of the law and the expressed will of the voters. Not that this is a problem for him, as the death penalty moratorium demonstrates.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  262. Sad!

    The Supreme Court on Monday denied an effort by lawyer John Eastman to appeal a ruling that found he may have acted criminally with the legal advice he gave former President Trump. It spurred a rare recusal from Justice Clarence Thomas, whose wife corresponded with the California attorney in the weeks ahead of Jan. 6.

    (U.S. District Judge David Carter) in California found Eastman as well as Trump “more likely than not” engaged in criminal conduct in hatching a plan for the former president to stay in power after losing the 2020 election, including in a memo that urged then-Vice President Mike Pence to buck his ceremonial duties to certify the election results Jan. 6, 2021.

    Thomas’s recusal comes after reporting that his wife, Ginni Thomas, emailed Eastman, as well as Trump chief of staff Mark Meadows and Arizona lawmakers wrestling with pressure from the Trump campaign, to look for ways to reverse the election.
    ……….
    The decision is the end of the road for Eastman, who has been fighting a ruling ordering him to release his communications surrounding Jan. 6 to the now-dissolved committee investigating the attack.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  263. Well-played, lurker. As a bonus, Rob and whembly both revealed they are don’t read links.

    DRJ (f2c6b8) — 10/1/2023 @ 10:10 am

    You are wrong. Because of who the link led to is why I called him a troll.

    He’s trying to get people to bad mouth the host to get them banned.

    NJRob (e64f54)

  264. What he did was contrary to the spirit of the law and the expressed will of the voters. ……..

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:38 am

    I knew you were going to say that. 🤣

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  265. It was an outright racial pander. I take some comfort that it wasn’t the execrable Barbara Lee.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  266. What he did was contrary to the spirit of the law and the expressed will of the voters. ……..

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:38 am

    If the authors of Prop 209 wanted to restrict the governor’s appointing power they would have included that in the amendment.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  267. evin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:41 am

    LOL! Pandering to voters is how politicians get elected.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  268. LOL! Pandering to voters is how politicians get elected.

    This is how you get more Trump.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  269. Per the (much) earlier discussion on whether an appointed Senator must live in the state they represent, Laphonza Butler is (currently) a resident of Maryland. However, I’ve read she also owns a home in View Park, an unincorporated part of Los Angeles County, which no doubt will be her new address.

    Interesting factoids: For the first time since 1992, both California US Senators are from Southern California. Previously both were from Northern California (Feinstein and Boxer).

    Also, California voters will face four Senate elections next year: a primary and general for the special and a primary and general for the regular — in the space of eight months.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  270. LOL! Pandering to voters is how politicians get elected.

    This is how you get more Trump.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:47 am

    Politicians have been pandering to voters long before Trump:

    “Vote yourself a farm and horses” – Abraham Lincoln, referring to Republican support for a law granting homesteads on the American frontier areas of the West (1860).

    Four more years of the full dinner pail” – William McKinley (1900)

    “A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage” – Commonly cited version of a claim asserted in a Republican Party flier on behalf of the 1928 U.S. presidential campaign of Herbert Hoover.

    “Read My Lips, No New Taxes” – George H. W. Bush

    LOL!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  271. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 9:00 am

    Residency is not an issue as Butler hasn’t been sworn in yet.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  272. More Sad!

    The Supreme Court said Monday that it will not take up a longshot challenge to Donald Trump’s eligibility to run for president because of his alleged role in the January 6, 2021, attack on the US Capitol.

    The case was brought by John Anthony Castro, a little-known candidate for the Republican presidential nomination, who sued Trump earlier this year in an effort to disqualify him from running for president and holding the office “given his alleged provision of aid or comfort to the convicted criminals and insurrectionist that violently attacked our United States Capitol on January 6, 2021.”

    Castro’s case against Trump leans on a post-Civil War provision of the 14th Amendment that says any American official who takes an oath to uphold the US Constitution is disqualified from holding future office if they “engaged in insurrection or rebellion” or have “given aid or comfort” to insurrectionists.

    This case is separate from the other 14th Amendment challenges against Trump in Minnesota and Colorado, which are scheduled for trials later this year.
    ………
    A lower court had thrown out Castro’s case, ruling that he lacked the legal right – or standing – to bring the challenge, and his petition to the high court had asked the justices to decide whether he did have standing in the matter.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  273. They could, for example require them to be over 50.

    I seriously doubt that. Changing the minimum age is a direct breach of Article II, Section 1.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  274. This will be good. There should be an over/under on how many times the Trumps plead the Fifth or refuse to answer.

    He [one of Trump’s attorneys] said the judge will hear testimony by ex-President Trump, Eric Trump and Don Jr.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  275. This will be good. There should be an over/under on how many times the Trumps plead the Fifth or refuse to answer.

    He [one of Trump’s attorneys] said the judge will hear testimony by ex-President Trump, Eric Trump and Don Jr.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/2/2023 @ 10:28 am

    Too bad New York is a hard “no” when it comes to televising trials. Must see TV!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  276. Too bad New York is a hard “no” when it comes to televising trials. Must see TV!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 10:39 am

    I would say “clink clink” followed by a phat bass line, but no one’s been killed…yet

    urbanleftbehind (a85bd1)

  277. Going by the GOP majority in the House, Putin’s propaganda efforts are working. Sigh.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  278. Comedy Gold!

    Former President Donald Trump has infamously attacked the judge presiding over his civil trial in New York for business fraud with regular frequency as the case has moved forward, so legal observers were surprised to learn that his legal team had declined to request a jury trial — leaving the ultimate verdict solely in that one judge’s hands.
    ………
    Contrary to Trump’s complaint that he was “not even allowed” to have a jury, he absolutely did have the power to demand a jury trial, if only his attorneys had checked a single box on the front page of a standard New York court document.

    In a civil case, the parties all have the right to request a jury; the only reason a trial would proceed without one is if both sides decline to demand one. Here, the prosecutors declined to so in their Notice for Trial, as seen in the screenshot below of a section of the first page, by checking the box next to “Trial without jury.”
    ………
    It’s not entirely clear why Trump’s attorneys didn’t request a jury trial. As Los Angeles Times senior legal affairs columnist Harry Litman noted, “[i]t’s incredibly easy” to do so and only requires you to “just check a box on a form.”
    ……..
    “Another really important thing, the fact that this is not a jury trial changes everything,” (CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig) emphasized. “It changes everything about the public statements. It changes everything about the way you’d give your opening statement in the court. It changes everything about what witnesses you’re gonna call, how you cross-examine them, because now you’re making your case not to, in this case, six civilians, but to — not just a judge, but the judge who knows this case, he is probably the foremost expert on this case. So, that really changes the entire atmosphere here.”
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  279. I think it was a mistake for judge and prosecution in the Trump real estate mess to undervalue Mar a Lago around $75M. Rush Limbaugh’s wife sold a much smaller property down the street for $155M (that probably has zero cash flow).
    Valuation of real estate is both art and science and in the end is worth what someone will pay and why. $75M valuations shows no art and no science.
    A 19 acre property here zoned AG 1-10 acres sold for $40,000,000. The zoning means it cannot be subdivided because the best you could do is two 9.5 acre parcels and the AG 1-10 zoning doesn’t allow for a parcel smaller than 10 acres.
    Currently there is a hydroponic vegetable operation, no cannabis growing allowed on the property. Everyone thought that the $40M price was high even if the new owner was to win a future appeal to amend the zoning and offer to build state mandated housing units because there is a 29 acre AG parcel, 13 acres of greenhouses, 13 acres of crops/flowers, with a nice home on 3 acres down the street for sale at $20,500,000.
    Instead of (immediate) development, the purchaser of the property was providing $40,000,000 of operating capital to the owner in a fairly simple purchase and 40 year hands off lease/back starting at $3,000,000 a year with annual adjustments made for inflation.
    The new owners might soon apply for a loan based on land value plus cash flow and it will be up to the lender to decide if they agree with the valuation the owners have come up with. Its kind of like the opening ask in a negotiation, the lender can always do their own due diligence and say “pass” or yes, but we want different terms.
    After the re-finance, the new owners will also probably tell the County of SB that they think the true current value of the land is not the $40M the county may have assessed the land at and provide a raft of supporting reasons why they think this way using the details of their agreement vs. the amount the nearby parcel sells for. The County assessor can do their due diligence, look through the paperwork and say yes or no based on their own assessment, they do not have to accept the owners argument.

    steveg (177b8e)

  280. I agree with steveg. Property valuation is a question of fact, which precludes summary judgment.

    nk (2e7e52)

  281. I think it’s apples and oranges to compare Rush Limbaugh’s estate with MAL. MAL is a deed restricted private club, not a personal residence.

    The Mar-A-Lago property is encumbered with a “trust for historical preservation” in a 2002 deed where Trump agreed “to forever extinguish his right to develop or use the Property for any purpose other than club use.”

    The 2002 Deed also specifically “limits changes to the Property including, without limitation, the division or subdivision of the Property for any purpose, including use as single family homes, the interior renovation of the mansion, which may be necessary and desirable for the sale of the Property as a single family residential estate, the construction of new buildings and the obstruction of open vistas.” Id. As Judge Engoron explained in his summary judgment order: “In exchange for granting the easement, Mar-a-Lago was taxed at a significantly lower rate (the club rate) than it otherwise would have been (the private home rate).”

    Source

    A 1993 covenant limits the amount of time MAL can be used as a private residence, but apparently it has not been enforced.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  282. The judge decided that Trump had made o attempt to be truthful based on his going the size of his apartment at Trump Tower as 3 times its real size but it may be that Trump had been lying about that for along time. He ls ignored the difference between value if rent controlled and not or zoning restrictions and not.

    It is clear that Trump came up with the answer and then worked backwards.It is also probably true it actually didn’t matter to the people making the decision on the loan – but it may have mattered to their bosses or to company policy.

    And nobody would ahev inbestigated something on which nobody lost money if he didntgointoolitis.And things may already have changed,.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  283. So, is the court saying, as well, that the banks done well f’ed up too?

    It takes two entities to sign off on a loan… the lender and customer.

    Don’t lenders have underwriters and assessor on their own to ensure all proper risk mitigations are reviewed and signed off?

    whembly (5f7596)

  284. Give a dog a bad name …

    … and he will pay a $250 million fine and lose his business licenses.

    Trump is on trial for being Trump, and whose fault is that?

    nk (2e7e52)

  285. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/2/2023 @ 2:27 pm

    The 1993 Mar a Lago use agreement between Palm Beach and Trump.

    Trump agreed to convey the title of the property from his personal possession to a corporate entity he controlled named Mar-a-Lago Club, Inc. He promised he wouldn’t put up condominiums or co-op units. He also took care of a worrisome issue for some council members: the question of what would happen if the club failed. In that event, Trump agreed in writing to the same provision his attorney had promised: “The use of the Land shall revert to a single family residence.”

    The deal he struck made it clear that no one could live permanently at the property. It stated that the guest suites could be used only by members for a maximum of three times a year for no longer than seven days at a time, and that those seven-day stays couldn’t be strung together consecutively.

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  286. And I wouldn’t crow about Trump’s lawyer’s “failure” to demand trial by jury. Trial by jury may not available in New York State for this type of case, regardless of the box in the appearance form, and checking it would have been nothing more than gaucherie.

    nk (2e7e52)

  287. Seems pretty clear to me:

    If the plaintiff or defendant has properly filed a jury demand and paid the jury demand fee, the case will be tried before a jury. The jury, not the judge, will make the decision and then a judgment will be entered based on the verdict reached by the jury. If the jury is unable to reach a verdict, the Judge will have to declare a mistrial and the case will have to be tried again before a new jury.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  288. That’s for cases at law. There are no juries in equity (except in 1980s TV shows), and when a case involves both equitable and monetary relief, equity rules prevails under the doctrine of equitable cleanup. And this case does not strike me as either, but rather as what is known as quasi-criminal, a violation of statutory law with civil penalties, and trial by jury is not usually available there either.

    nk (7f5f4a)

  289. I seriously doubt that. Changing the minimum age is a direct breach of Article II, Section 1.

    What, exactly, is the minimum age set for Electors?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  290. Too bad New York is a hard “no” when it comes to televising trials. Must see TV!

    Star chamber.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  291. Going by the GOP majority in the House, Putin’s propaganda efforts are working. Sigh.

    TBF, Brezhnev had similar luck with the Democrats.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  292. I agree with steveg. Property valuation is a question of fact, which precludes summary judgment.

    And, after the Trump Organization is dismembered, maybe they’ll win that on appeal.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  293. Trump is on trial for being Trump, and whose fault is that?

    Those other billionaires ought to think twice before challenging the establishment system.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  294. LOL!

    Rep. Victoria Spartz (R-Ind.) announced that she’ll consider resigning from her position if Congress does not create a debt commission by the end of this year.

    “I’ve done many very difficult things being one woman standing many times with many very long hours and personal sacrifices, but there is a limitation to human capacity,” Spartz said in a Monday statement.

    “If Congress does not pass a debt commission this year to move the needle on the crushing national debt and inflation, at least at the next debt ceiling increase at the end of 2024, I will not continue sacrificing my children for this circus with a complete absence of leadership, vision, and spine,” she added. “I cannot save this Republic alone.”
    ………
    Spartz, a Ukrainian-born lawmaker, announced earlier this year that she will not run for reelection in Indiana’s 5th Congressional District.
    ………

    Her “threat” reminds me of this.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  295. Those other billionaires ought to think twice before challenging the establishment system.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/2/2023 @ 3:44 pm

    LOL! They are the establishment system.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  296. He ignored the difference between value if rent controlled and not or zoning restrictions and not.

    Courts say that rent control isn’t a taking, so the valuaiton should be the same, right?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  297. Those other billionaires ought to think twice before challenging the establishment system.

    Operating from inside enemy territory.

    nk (a50e8b)

  298. Trump Loses It in Iowa:

    ……….
    The former president turned a rant against renewable energy into a wild explanation of how he’d rather die if he were on a sinking electric boat.

    “But if I’m sitting down, and that boat’s going down, and I’m on top of a battery, and the water starts flooding in, I’m getting concerned,” Trump said at an event in Iowa in Sunday. “But then I look 10 yards to my left and there’s a shark over there. So I have a choice of electrocution or shark, you know what I’m gonna take? Electrocution. I will take electrocution every single time.”

    Any electrocution danger in the water is not exclusive to electric boats. ……..
    ……….
    He’s also had a long-running problem with sharks, according to Stormy Daniels, the porn star who says she had an affair with the then-TV host in 2006.

    “He is obsessed with sharks,” Daniels said in an interview with In Touch magazine in 2011. “Terrified of sharks. He was like, ‘I donate to all these charities and I would never donate to any charity that helps sharks. I hope all the sharks die.’”
    ………
    “I’m not a big fan of sharks,” he said in 2020. “I have people calling me up, ‘Sir, we have a fund to save the shark, it’s called Save The Shark.’ I say, ‘No, thank you, I have other things I can contribute to.’”
    ############

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  299. Monmouth University Poll 10/2/23

    There is not a lot of enthusiasm for either President Joe Biden or former President Donald Trump becoming the major party nominees in 2024. …….

    Three-quarters (76%) of American voters agree that Biden is too old to effectively serve another term as president. Just under half (48%) say the same about Trump. In fact, 55% of voters strongly agree with this assessment of Biden’s age while 26% strongly agree with the same statement about Trump. As may be expected, there are partisan differences in these results, with Republicans (23%) being much less likely than other voters to think Trump is too old and Democrats being less likely – although still a 56% majority – to say Biden is too old. There are no sizable differences by age within each party on these views.
    ……….
    Just 37% of voters express at least some enthusiasm about the possibility of Trump being the Republican nominee and 32% are enthusiastic about Biden getting the nod for the Democrats. Majorities are not at all enthusiastic about either Trump (52%) or Biden (53%) being at the top of their respective party tickets. ………

    In a Biden-Trump rematch scenario, just over 4 in 10 registered voters say they will either definitely (31%) or probably (11%) vote for the Democratic incumbent and a similar number will definitely (31%) or probably (12%) support the Republican. Majorities, though, say they will not vote for either Biden (51% definitely not and 6% probably not) or Trump (48% definitely not and 8% probably not). …….
    ……….
    ……….(J)ust under half of American voters (46%) think (Trump) committed a crime, 22% say he did something wrong but it was not criminal, and 29% said he did nothing wrong. For the incumbent, who is now facing an official impeachment inquiry in the House of Representatives, 34% say Biden should be impeached and 16% say he may have violated his office but should not be impeached, while a plurality of 43% say Biden has not violated his oath of office in his actions as president so far.

    Just 15% of the electorate has a lot of trust, 33% has a little trust, and 50% has no trust in the House to conduct a fair investigation into Biden. ……..

    ……… Just over one-fourth (27%) of the electorate say that the younger Biden’s legal woes make them less likely to vote for the incumbent. Most of the voters who say the Hunter Biden issue may impact their vote identify themselves as Republicans and are unlikely to support the Democrat anyway. …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  300. steveg (177b8e) — 10/2/2023 @ 1:52 pm

    There are two factors that negatively affect the market value of Trump’s Mount Vermin property:

    (1) it’s on the National Historic Register, meaning that it can’t be demolished, plus and no substantive architectural changes to the building can be made (although it could be expanded), and
    (2) by law, the country club cannot be converted to residential or other uses.

    Because of this, it pretty much has to be valued as a beach club in its existing use. Absent comparable sales of similar country clubs, you’re left with running an Income Approach and, in my experience, these types of facilities have high expense ratios, anywhere from 60% to 80% of total revenues. We’d have to see his operating statements on the club to know for sure, and I doubt we’ll ever actually know.

    I’ll also note that, in 2020, Trump objected to an assessed value of $26 million as being too high.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  301. What, exactly, is the minimum age set for Electors?

    Irrelevant.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  302. The Gaetz clown show is officially a sh-t show.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  303. John Kelly goes on the record to confirm several disturbing stories about Trump
    ……….
    Kelly set the record straight with on-the-record confirmation of a number of damning stories about statements Trump made behind closed doors attacking US service members and veterans, listing a number of objectionable comments Kelly witnessed Trump make firsthand.
    ……….
    In the statement, Kelly is confirming, on the record, a number of details in a 2020 story in The Atlantic by editor-in-chief Jeffrey Goldberg, including Trump turning to Kelly on Memorial Day 2017, as they stood among those killed in Afghanistan and Iraq in Section 60 at Arlington National Cemetery, and saying, “I don’t get it. What was in it for them?”

    Those details also include Trump’s inability to understand why the American public respects former prisoners of war and those shot down in combat. ………

    CNN reached out to the Trump campaign Monday afternoon, telling officials there that a former administration official had confirmed, on the record, a number of details about the 2020 Atlantic story, without naming Kelly, and seeking comment. The Trump campaign responded by insulting the character and credibility of retired Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman General Mark Milley, who had nothing to do with this story.
    ……….
    ……….Inspired by the Bastille Day parade, except for the section of the parade featuring wounded French veterans in wheelchairs, Trump tells Kelly, “Look, I don’t want any wounded guys in the parade.”

    “Those are the heroes,” Kelly said. “In our society, there’s only one group of people who are more heroic than they are – and they are buried over in Arlington.”

    “I don’t want them,” Trump said. “It doesn’t look good for me.”
    ……….
    No other presidential candidate in history has had so many detractors from his inner circle. His former secretary of defense, Mark Esper, told CNN in November 2022, “I think he’s unfit for office. … He puts himself before country. His actions are all about him and not about the country. And then, of course, I believe he has integrity and character issues as well.”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  304. We are borrowing the money to finance the War in Ukraine. I am in favor of continuing, but it is a fair criticism by the GOP

    steveg (26381e)

  305. I’d say that in my world, it is easier to convert a club to single family home than vice versa, but I very much thank you for sharing your expertise (Paul, I mean that very sincerely. Hard to convey in writing). Mar a Lago is a very unique property and the value really is what someone would pay for it for whatever their dream is. I think the Beach club, pool area of Mar a Lago is probably worth around $20 some million from one point of view (as a club, revenues are taxable under other rules) and valued way more if it was demo’d and converted to single family residence. If I was to borrow money against the beach club, I’d want to borrow at the value it would have for sale, but be taxed at current beach club business value. In this case the business would actually reduce value below land with grandfathered structure, pool, infrastructure

    I am currently working on a property that was purchased for about $55M but is comprised of three parcels that have been united into one compound. The pool house became the gym, pool was removed, the guest house was demo’d and rebuilt, the TV studio/guest house/office/man cave at 5000 sf is now the pool house/other guest house with new and larger pool, The main house is completely renovated, expanded, and the pond was demo’d, removed and reconfigured. Because the compound is made up of three parcels, the accountants are carefully figuring costs per parcel to mitigate property taxes, but no doubt if they want to refinance (can’t see why, the owners have a huge revenue steam that should survive a recession) but if they did refinance, I am sure they would use the entirety of the property and the valuations would not be the same as the valuations for tax assessment. Having a structure denoted as a historical landmark is a challenge but what would be important is if the other 13 acres can be developed in any way. Usually the structure and maybe the gardens are the historical landmark, not the property. If you look at a birds eye view of the property there is a lot of room for additions

    steveg (26381e)

  306. Sounds like we both have a little experience in real estate, steve.
    It may be fair to value the club and a reasonable amount of land for operating the club, and do a separate valuation on the excess land. Still, they’re still stuck with the club-only use restriction.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  307. @278 remember the republican islolationists of the 1930’s that aided hitler?

    asset (08c4fe)

  308. @306 ukraine borrowing is chump change compared to what will have to be borrowed if putin wins. @305 trump supporters don’t care as long as he hates and wants to get even with the same people they do. When you look into the abyss the abyss looks into you. Nietzsche.

    asset (08c4fe)

  309. @299 soros has challenged pretty successfully.

    asset (08c4fe)

  310. I think Jamaal Bowman should be punished for the lie that insults all of our intelligence

    steveg (26381e)

  311. In my defense, I was at work that has twitter blocked.

    So, lurker was playing games here by obfuscating that.

    But my sentiment remains unchanged.

    whembly (5f7596) — 10/2/2023 @ 6:57 am

    What games? My comment practically screamed, “Click the link!” I obfuscated nothing and expected no one to be fooled. If you couldn’t restrain yourself until you got home, that’s on you.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  312. @312 punish away ;however republicans in congress know what happens to them when we get back in control. If expelled he would just get re-elected and mccarthy needs george santos. In the next congress the squad not corporate stooges like nancy pelosi will be dealing with the oppressors.

    asset (08c4fe)

  313. There is a long history of black men being wrongfully accused of misbehavior towards fire alarms.
    Jamal Bowman only borrowed the fire alarm by accident.
    He just picked it up to look at it and absent-mindedly put it in his pocket.
    He was going to pay for it but somehow overlooked it at the checkout counter.
    He thought he had already reserved it from Citi Alarm and then the pregnant nurse showed up and said she had rented it.
    He is a member of the Audubon Society and the unleashed fire alarm was scaring away the birds.
    It was not a violent crime.
    He is entitled to it for reparations.

    nk (e4a078)

  314. @313

    What games? My comment practically screamed, “Click the link!” I obfuscated nothing and expected no one to be fooled. If you couldn’t restrain yourself until you got home, that’s on you.

    lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/2/2023 @ 10:56 pm

    No.

    What you did was purposely obfuscated a tweet from Pat, our host, by saying “one person’s” instead of including his name. Patterico is shorter than “one person’s”, so I don’t believe this was done innocuously on your part.

    Do better.

    Again, though, my sentiment remains the same.

    If Pat, or anyone else, doesn’t want Trump to be the nominee… it’s incumbent on the anti-Trumpers to make the case to convince the primary voters to vote otherwise.

    I’m not voting for Trump in the primary.

    I’m encouraging the folks in my circle to vote for DeSantis.

    I’m looking to be part of the DeSantis campaign in Missouri, actively participating in the process for the first time in my life with whatever they need (canvassing, poll watching, whatever).

    So, when our esteemed host tweeted:

    “For those Republicans who can’t vote for Biden because he’s a Democrat, I recommend that they buck up and vote for Biden anyway. I voted Republican all my life until Trump. If I can do it, so can they.”

    “Anyone who would vote for Trump at this point is a civic disaster and has no business voting at all.”

    This is not making the convincing case to vote as he wishes.

    I will crawl over broken glass and disagree with him, and any like minded posters as vehemently as possible.

    While I really, really don’t want another Trump administration. I cannot, and I will not ignore the absolute ‘civic disaster’ and ‘trainwreck’ perpetuated by modern Democrats.

    If you were a former Republican who cannot vote for Trump because of such animus you hold against him, I understand.

    But, you won’t be able to convince me and many GOP voters to tactically vote against Trump during the General Election, as I 100% vastly prefer the ‘Trump trainwreck’ over the destructive polices of today’s Democrats.

    whembly (5f7596)

  315. No.

    What you did was purposely obfuscated a tweet from Pat, our host, by saying “one person’s” instead of including his name. Patterico is shorter than “one person’s”, so I don’t believe this was done innocuously on your part.

    Do better.

    And that is why I called him a troll.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  316. https://hotair.com/karen-townsend/2023/10/03/texas-democrat-rep-henry-cuellar-carjacked-in-washington-d-c-n582010

    Rep. Henry Cuellar (D-TX) was carjacked at gunpoint on Monday night. It happened in Navy Yard neighborhood, just blocks away from the Capitol.

    The carjacking took place about 9:30 p.m. near his home. Fortunately, Cuellar was not injured. According to Cuellar’s chief of staff, Jacob Hochberg, the congressman was parking his car as three armed assailants approached him and stole his car – a white Honda CHR with Texas plates. His car was recovered.

    Hahahahahaahahaha.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  317. We are borrowing the money to finance the War in Ukraine.

    We are borrowing money to finance everything.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  318. Morning Consult Republican Primary Tracking Poll-10/3/23

    ……….
    The bulk of the GOP’s electorate (61%) would back Trump if the primary or caucus were held in their state today, while 13% would support DeSantis.

    Ramaswamy is backed by 7% of the party’s potential voters, down 2 points since the latest debate, to tie with Haley. Former Vice President Mike Pence has 5% support, followed by former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, who has 3% backing.
    ……..
    14% of Trump’s supporters say they do not know where their loyalties would fall if Trump weren’t in the race.

    Biden and Trump are tied at 43% in a hypothetical general election matchup, while DeSantis trails the president by 3 points.

    Trump is popular with 77% of the party’s potential electorate, while 21% view him unfavorably, marking a slight improvement from the previous week.
    ……….
    The GOP’s primary electorate is notably more likely to report having heard something positive than something negative recently about Trump (42% to 37%). It’s the highest level of positive attention of any GOP presidential contender.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  319. LOL!

    Donald Trump was beaming when he spoke to reporters near the end of Monday’s opening day of his civil fraud trial. He had just left the courtroom, where he’d given two thumbs up from the defense table after hearing that the judge had suddenly reversed himself on the statute of limitations.

    But come Tuesday, the judge began the proceedings by clarifying that the former president’s remarks to the TV cameras were not true — without explicitly mentioning Trump by name.

    New York State Supreme Court Justice Arthur Engoron remarked from the bench just before the second day of trial that in fact his recent ruling ordering the dissolution of Trump’s business empire found the ex-president had committed fraud with each submission of a false statement of financial condition to banks and insurers.
    ………..
    Trump’s talking point on Monday afternoon came from Engoron’s exchange with the former president’s attorneys following hours of testimony delivered by Donald Bender, a former accountant Trump’s business had long used from the firm Mazars.

    Hours of Bender’s direct examination focused on documents from 2011, but an intermediate appellate court warned that only events from three years later fall within the applicable statute of limitations.
    ………
    Late on Monday, Engoron made clear that Bender’s testimony, which continues on Tuesday, must connect to events on or after 2014 in order to be relevant.
    ………
    Trump claimed that means the defense knocked out “80%” of the case.
    ………
    Engoron explicitly rejected the alternative defense theory of the case in his ruling finding Trump liable for fraud, finding that the relevant issue is when they were “completed,” which includes the times when Trump was “still obligated to, and did, annually submit current (statements of financial condition) to comply with the terms of the loan agreements.”
    ………
    In fact, Engoron previously ridiculed the defense theory of the statute of limitations as “a bizarre, invented, inverted form of the ‘relation back’ doctrine.”

    The judge added that Trump’s theory would mean that “if one aspect of fraudulent business conduct falls outside the statute of limitations, then all subsequent aspects of fraudulent conduct also fall outside the statute, no matter how inextricably intertwined.”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  320. Poll: Trump Maintains Commanding Lead After Second GOP Debate

    ………
    The Messenger/Harris poll, conducted September 28-29 among 1,615 registered voters, found that voters believed Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis won Wednesday night’s contest at the Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley, California.

    But there was little to no change in the overall contours of the race. Former President Donald Trump remains the clear frontrunner.

    Trump has not appeared at either debate, but 43% of voters said they were more likely to support him after Wednesday night. And they’re split on him ditching them—49% said they supported his decision not to show up while 51% opposed it. …….

    ……..While 53% said they felt the debate was moderated well, 63% said the debate was too disorganized to learn more about the GOP candidate’s positions on the issues.
    ……..
    Twenty percent said they felt DeSantis had the best performance, followed by venture capitalist Vivek Ramaswamy at 16% and Haley at 13%. …….
    After the second debate, Trump still leads his challengers with 56%. DeSantis went from 14% to 11%. All other candidates were in single digits.
    ………
    ………A majority (67%), including 41% of Democrats, said Biden shouldn’t run again in 2024. For Trump, 57% said he shouldn’t run again, including 31% of Republicans. A majority of Independent voters don’t want Biden (74%) or Trump (64%) to run again, despite that looking like the most likely matchup.
    ###########

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  321. What you did was purposely obfuscated a tweet from Pat, our host, by saying “one person’s” instead of including his name. Patterico is shorter than “one person’s”, so I don’t believe this was done innocuously on your part.

    whembly (5f7596) — 10/3/2023 @ 7:07 am

    That’s a lie. The point of my post was to contrast how differently some people might respond to the same “vote Biden” tweet based on who they think wrote it. That point obviously requires revealing the identity of the author, not obfuscating it. I expected that would be self-evident to anyone who took the 10 seconds or so required to read what I wrote and linked. Apparently DRJ agreed. It didn’t occur to me anyone would out themselves as the Q.E.D. of my comment by recklessly replying without clicking the link. If I was guilty of anything, it was of giving you too much credit.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  322. He’s trying to get people to bad mouth the host to get them banned.

    And that is why I called him a troll.

    NJRob (e64f54) — 10/2/2023 @ 8:39 am

    Outside your fevered imagination, I’ve never tried to get anyone banned. On the contrary, I’ve repeatedly disclaimed any interest in doing anything of the sort. I consider the rules here to be between each commenter individually and the mods. Whether anyone who isn’t me has broken a rule is none of my business. Should a commenter attack me personally, as you do frequently, my recourse is to tell you how ignorant and obnoxious it is, not to go whining for your banishment.

    You, on the other hand, are the king of dishes-it-out-but-can’t-take-it. You routinely name-call people (“leftist” “moby” “troll”) for simply disagreeing with you, then turn around and complain that substantive critiques of your opinions violate the rules. Reading it would give anyone who isn’t, as I believe Pat described you, “broken by partisanship,” whiplash.

    My mention of you in my initial comment was obviously satirical. As I just explained to whembly, I was making a point about how differently some people might react if the author of the tweet wasn’t Pat. If I was trying to get anyone banned, why in the world would I post the link? Do you think I believe anyone here is so stupid that they’d knowingly call Pat a leftist or a moby? As usual, your tribal effusions only make sense in a world where all your perceived enemies are evil imbeciles. What a dark world that must be.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  323. Proving my point. Your fevered imagination had to write a dissertation to excuse your partisan behavior and attempt to get people banned. It even fooled DRJ. But I expect as much from you and it’s why I called you on it.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  324. Nice word salad.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  325. We’re hearing about the Trump Tower penthouse and Mar-a-Lago because they’re glamorous and easily understood.

    We are not hearing about the overvaluation of Trump’s business properties written off, after he had bankrupted them, to the tune of nearly $1 billion, because net operating loss is not as glamorous or as easily understood.

    Even if the full $250 million fine is imposed, Trump will still come out ahead, with the taxes he avoided and the creditors he stiffed.

    nk (1dfe28)

  326. @323 lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/3/2023 @ 5:48 pm
    No lurker, you can’t spin this away.

    This is classic bad faith posting on a forum that most of us is trying to have an open dialogue.

    This is how you flush a forum/community down the crapper.

    whembly (5f7596)

  327. What, exactly, is the minimum age set for Electors?

    Irrelevant.

    Not when someone suggests you can’t set one.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  328. Simon Jester (c8876d) — 10/4/2023 @ 7:00 am

    LOL! More wish casting.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  329. What, exactly, is the minimum age set for Electors?

    Irrelevant.

    Not when someone suggests you can’t set one.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 8:30 am

    I would presume it would be same as the voting age.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  330. @278 remember the republican islolationists of the 1930’s that aided hitler?

    Remember the Hollywood writers in the in930s, 1940s and 1950s that aided Stalin? Dalton Trumbo got everything coming to him for his slavish devotion to the CPUSA and willingness to create propaganda for the Soviet Union. Such as his abrupt turn from anti-fascist to anti-interventionist during the Soviet-Nazi Non-Aggression Pact period, and his abrupt switch back when the Nazis invaded Russia.

    As Thomas Patrick Doherty notes in Hollywood and Hitler, 1933-1939, support for Communist front groups began drying up after the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact required them to lay off the Nazis. The Germans and Soviets were now allies who would soon carve up Poland together, and that meant Trumbo and his fellow travelers had to embrace an anti-war and tacitly pro-fascist party line.

    “Only party discipline and an eye for the big picture kept the true believers in line,” Doherty writes of the book that was also serialized in The Daily Worker. “The screenwriter Dalton Trumbo, a dutiful party liner, published an antiwar novel, Johnny Got His Gun, about a young American doughboy from the Great War, his face, arms, and legs blown off, who pleads in Morse code to be put on exhibit as a warning to future generations.”

    But a funny thing happened after Hitler turned on Stalin a few years later and the Communists desperately sought American entry into the war: Trumbo suddenly become much less committed to pacifism. And, after receiving letters from non-interventionists who thought the book was needed now more than ever, Trumbo let it go out of print.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-bryan-cranstons-trumbo-whitewashes-stalinism

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  331. I would presume it would be same as the voting age.

    The point is that the Constitution leaves this up to the states almost entirely, only stating that federal office-holders cannot be Electors.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  332. Not when someone suggests you can’t set one.

    The subject was presidents, not Electors, but Article I Section 2 states that “Electors in each State shall have the Qualifications requisite for Electors of the most numerous Branch of the State Legislature”.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  333. Wishcasting:

    What would really really make me forgive the GOP for its sins would be a third impeachment, following Trump’s felony convictions, with an eye to barring him from office, and a subsequent conviction in the Senate. There are a lot of GOP Senators who are not on the ballot in 2024, and others, like Romney, who aren’t running again.

    How many felonies are too many?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  334. And the 17th Amendment states, “The electors in each State shall have the qualifications requisite for electors of the most numerous branch of the State legislatures.”

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  335. but Article I Section 2 states

    Those “Electors” are simply the set of citizens who may vote for members of the House of Representatives. Different than Presidential Electors.

    The rule for Presidential Electors is contained in Article II, Section 1:

    Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

    (emphasis mine)

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  336. @337: And again, not the same as Presidential Electors.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  337. The term “Elector” in Article I should be read as “Voter” in elections for the House, and similarly in Amendment 17 for direct elections for the Senate. In direct federal elections, the Constitution is quite clear that Congress controls the elections. In the case of Presidential elections, the Constitution is also clear that the state legislatures (and perhaps state courts) control those elections.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  338. I’m still not caring, Kevin, because I was talking about presidents, not Electors.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  339. So, you intend to ignore the relevant facts. Fine.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  340. In my state, the voters do not even control which electors are selected. Or at least won’t if a few more states join the popular vote compact. The legislature will award the electors to the candidate that they believe has the most popular votes nationally regardless of whether that candidate prevailed in the state (or was even on the state’s ballot). So, it is unreasonable to argue that the names printed on the state ballot are in any real way meaningful.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  341. What would really really make me forgive the GOP for its sins would be a third impeachment, following Trump’s felony convictions, with an eye to barring him from office, and a subsequent conviction in the Senate. There are a lot of GOP Senators who are not on the ballot in 2024, and others, like Romney, who aren’t running again.

    How many felonies are too many?

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 8:48 am

    In MAGAWorld Trump’s felony indictments are a badge of honor.

    (Trump) said he considers each new indictment against him a “badge of honor.”

    “I’m being indicted for you and I believe that ‘you’ is more than 200 million people who love our country,” the former president said to applause. “This is a continuation of the greatest witch hunt of all time.”
    ……….
    “They want to take away my freedom because I will never let them take away your freedom. They want to silence me because I will never let them silence you. In the end they’re not after me, they’re after you and I just happen to be standing in their way,” Trump said.
    ………..

    A third impeachment is more wish casting because the Republican House would never do such a thing. One McCarthy’s sins was never having the House vote to overturn Trump’s previous impeachments.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  342. So, you intend to ignore the relevant facts. Fine.

    Like I said.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  343. A third impeachment is more wish casting because the Republican House would never do such a thing. One McCarthy’s sins was never having the House vote to overturn Trump’s previous impeachments.

    His “sins” were not a problem for 208 of 221 GOP House members. McCarthy received standing ovations from all but this tiny faction that does not belong in the Caucus in the first place.

    When Trump is convicted under the Espionage Act, and is found guilty of a criminal conspiracy in GA, MAGA may be thrilled, but there are quite a few GOP House members who will be looking at electoral disaster. I’d guess somewhere between 30 and 50. It will, of course, depend on the final resolution of the Speaker election, but it’s quite a bit more likely that the next Speaker will be to the Left of McCarthy than to the Right.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  344. For a slightly different of “At Least No Tree Died”:

    Snopes.com
    Should People with Hidden Safety Phones Turn Them Off During Oct. 4 Emergency Alert System Test?

    Claim: Experts advise people at risk for domestic violence who keep a hidden safety phone at home to switch that phone off during FEMA’s Oct. 4, 2023, nationwide test of the National Emergency Alert system so the phone’s existence isn’t inadvertently revealed to an abuser.

    Fact check by Snopes.com: True

    Hey, “experts”! What about the wrong numbers, scams, spams, and pollsters that call just about every phone every day? Do you think that people with hidden safety phones have not been ahead of you for as long as they have had those phones?

    nk (aca288)

  345. The judge in Donald Trump’s hush money case has said that he may delay the trial because of the former president’s packed court schedule.

    The trial is currently scheduled for early 2024, but New York Supreme Court Justice Juan Merchan cancelled a hearing set for this week and wrote in a short letter to Trump lawyer Todd Blanche that “In light of the many recent developments involving Mr. Trump and his rapidly evolving trial schedule, I do not believe it would be fruitful for us to conference this case on September 15 to discuss scheduling”.

    https://news.yahoo.com/judge-may-delay-trump-hush-165325417.html

    Good idea. Trump might win that one, the case is so weak. Pleading it out to a few misdemeanors would probably be wise.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  346. Hey, “experts”! What about the wrong numbers, scams, spams, and pollsters that call just about every phone every day? Do you think that people with hidden safety phones have not been ahead of you for as long as they have had those phones?

    They might have them just turned to “silent”, which won’t help here.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  347. If you are in favor of law and order — as I am — you will be sorry about crimes committed against any law-abiding citizen, but particularly a decent man like Congressman Cuellar:

    Cuellar has described himself as a “moderate-centrist” or conservative Democrat.[9] During the 117th Congress, he voted with the Democratic caucus 96.8% of the time.[48]

    During the Trump administration, Cuellar voted with the Democratic majority 87.9% of the time, while voting with Trump’s stance 40.6% of the time.[49][50][51] Cuellar was ranked the 6th-most bipartisan member of the House of Representatives in the first session of the 117th United States Congress by the Lugar Center and McCourt School of Public Policy.[52][53] He is one of two members belonging to the fiscally-conservative Blue Dog Democratic Coalition in the Texas congressional delegation.[41]

    As of August 2023, Cuellar had voted in line with Joe Biden’s stated position 96% of the time.

    (Among other things, Cuellar opposes abortion.)

    Jim Miller (b78b3c)

  348. ……..but it’s quite a bit more likely that the next Speaker will be to the Left of McCarthy than to the Right.

    So far the only candidates are Jim Jordan and Majority Leader Steve Scalise. Anyone to the “left” of McCarthy won’t get any votes from the conservatives in the Republican Study Committee, for example, which includes 167 of the 221 Republican members (75.5%). They far outnumber the House Freedom Caucus.

    Anyone “left” of McCarthy is a Democrat.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  349. @328, it’s difficult to predict how Trump’s legal morass will unfold, but the author certainly makes plausible points. The great unknown will be unforeseen delays, but there is an avalanche coming. Neither the financial fraud case nor the civil defamation case look promising for Trump. It won’t make him look strong or imposing to continue his legal losing streak going into the early primaries. The fraud case also cuts to Trump’s marketing identity as smart about business. In actuality, he cheats and gets caught….which doesn’t appear very smart.

    Yes, voters will start to vote, but how reliable are today’s polls at forecasting unprecedented political events playing out still almost four months away. The run-up to the March case dealing with Trump’s attempt to steal the election with fraudulent electors will pile on negative publicity that just can’t be wished away. I’m not convinced yet that most Republicans will volunteer to go down with Trump….and sacrifice 2024 to personality worship. Yes he has his base, but everyone has his limit and selling J6 as a nothing-burger is tough. Then we move to May and the classified documents case. What exactly is the defense?

    Will right-wing media start to hedge its bets? Will the GOP opposition start to break through about his unelectability? Will Trump get more and more unhinged as negative verdicts come in? It’s anyone’s guess but a collapse is not implausible.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  350. AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/4/2023 @ 11:24 am

    I’ll believe it when Trump’s popularity and his lead over the Republican primary field dips into low 40s.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  351. The run-up to the March case dealing with Trump’s attempt to steal the election with fraudulent electors will pile on negative publicity that just can’t be wished away.

    As I have posted before, Trump could win the nomination by the time his election subversion trial is over.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  352. Last comment, Kevin. In WA State in 2016, we had four faithless Electors that chose Colin Powell and Faith Spotted Eagle instead of Hillary, despite her winning the popular vote. The state changed the rules after that. End of story.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  353. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/4/2023 @ 11:52 am

    That’s his federal election subversion trial, there is no date for the Georgia trial.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  354. I’ll believe it when Trump’s popularity and his lead over the Republican primary field dips into low 40s.

    And I might — mind you, “might” — believe a poll that has “No opinion” as a choice.

    nk (aca288)

  355. And I might — mind you, “might” — believe a poll that has “No opinion” as a choice.

    nk (aca288) — 10/4/2023 @ 1:03 pm

    Most polls have a no opinion/don’t know option. It’s just the number is low.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  356. Thought I’d report that 3 hours into the activation of the chips in our vaccine doses, I think the Biden, Fetterman, McConnell reboots are still doing that weird spinning Windows OS “circling the bowl” thing

    steveg (ddc4f1)

  357. AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/4/2023 @ 11:24 am

    Will right-wing media start to hedge its bets?

    More like unhedge its bets. They are hedged now.

    Will the GOP opposition start to break through about his unelectability?

    It’s going the other way. They are conceding his electability.

    Will Trump get more and more unhinged as negative verdicts come in?

    He’s getting more unhinged already. Claimed the top court clerk was the “girlfriend” of Senator Chuck Schumer and posted a picture of the two together as proof. The judge reprimanded him, ordered the post taken down and made a partial gag order not to say anything (or is it attack?) his staff.

    It’s anyone’s guess but a collapse is not implausible.

    Focus on the Ukraine issue, especially Biden’s claim to have fired the prosecutor, could cause the collapse of both Trump and Biden.

    Except that Trump will try to be on both sides of Ukraine aid issue.

    Maybe take the Goldwater position on Vietnam: Either try to ein the war, or get out.

    The MAGA position is getting to resemble the freshman caucus and Democratic position on aid to South Vietnam in 1975 – there were no U.S. troops involved then either, but they wanted to “end the war.”

    And then there’s the proposed war in Mexico. Treat cartels like ISIS and trhe Mexican government like a failed state..

    Sammy FInkelman (7a85f9)

  358. The imaginary chips are supposed to be like the ones put in pets. Except nobody is doing that.

    Sammy FInkelman (7a85f9)

  359. Focus on the Ukraine issue, especially Biden’s claim to have fired the prosecutor, could cause the collapse of both Trump and Biden.

    LOL!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  360. Maybe take the Goldwater position on Vietnam: Either try to ein the war, or get out.

    Based on that standard, the US is not in the war.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  361. So far the only candidates are Jim Jordan and Majority Leader Steve Scalise

    Jim Jordan is a non-starter with the rank & file. Scalise would have to make all kinds of promises to get the Gaetz faction to agree and he can’t do that without losing 50 other votes.

    This will go on until 1) The Gaetz people stop their demands or 2) the successful speaker can get some Democrat votes. There is really no other way.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  362. Last comment, Kevin. In WA State in 2016, we had four faithless Electors that chose Colin Powell and Faith Spotted Eagle instead of Hillary, despite her winning the popular vote. The state changed the rules after that. End of story.

    Those rules are meaningless. The Constitution gives them complete agency, as does the 1st Amendment. Nowhere odes the state have the right to command their votes, they can only select them.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  363. The imaginary chips are supposed to be like the ones put in pets.

    1) The chips in pets have no power; they only respond to a large and nearby radio signal. They store the energy up and bounce back a canned sequence of bits.

    2) It should be looked at as an electronic bar code that you have to be withing 1 foot to read. It is not addressable and it can perform no computations or other functions.

    3) It is also about 100 times larger than will fit through a hypodermic needle.

    4) There are efficient tracking chips. I have designed an ASIC for one. It is perhaps possible to implant someone with one of these, along with a battery, but NOT by stealth and NOT by a vaccine hypodermic. It would also be rather expensive.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  364. Sammy

    One of my clients told me that some folks were of the opinion that the test of the warning system today was a fake, with the real goal being to activate the chip that was supposedly put in the mRNA vaccines.
    I had not heard that, but the internet sure does make it easy for like minded(?) people can find each other and share ideas

    I do believe this test was a deep state attempt to reboot Fetterman, Biden. McConnell and to see if they could resurrect Feinstein from the dead but lets keep that between you and me OK?

    steveg (a94b34)

  365. whembly (5f7596) — 10/4/2023 @ 7:38 am

    You didn’t even try to contradict what I said because every word of it is true. Instead you baselessly accused me of bad faith. That’s how you flush a forum/community down the crapper.

    Here’s another one of those nasty obfuscations, or as most people would call it, a “link”/a>:

    “It is amazing how many people think that they can answer an argument by attributing bad motives to those who disagree with them. Using this kind of reasoning, you can believe or not believe anything about anything, without having to bother to deal with facts or logic.”

    Before you go telling that author to “stick it where the sun don’t shine, maybe this time click the link.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  366. ………This will go on until 1) The Gaetz people stop their demands or 2) the successful speaker can get some Democrat votes. There is really no other way.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 4:48 pm

    Any Republican who tries to become speaker with Democrat votes will be the next to be “vacated”; and any Democrat that votes for a Republican speaker will be primaried. Just because McCarthy got booted doesn’t mean Gaetz won’t try it again.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  367. Rats. Dropped html tag. One more try:

    whembly (5f7596) — 10/4/2023 @ 7:38 am

    You didn’t even try to contradict what I said because every word of it is true. Instead you baselessly accused me of bad faith. That’s how you flush a forum/community down the crapper.

    Here’s another one of those nasty obfuscations, or as most people would call it, a link:

    “It is amazing how many people think that they can answer an argument by attributing bad motives to those who disagree with them. Using this kind of reasoning, you can believe or not believe anything about anything, without having to bother to deal with facts or logic.”

    Before you go telling that author to “stick it where the sun don’t shine,” maybe this time click the link.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  368. The federal government is being mean to Donnie.
    McCarthy had a chance to shut it down.
    He did not do it.
    It’s that simple, comrades, and everything else is ascribing too much character and sensibility to Trump’s gerbils.

    nk (c4b8f2)

  369. Gallup:

    Support for Third U.S. Political Party Up to 63%

    Sixty-three percent of U.S. adults currently agree with the statement that the Republican and Democratic parties do “such a poor job” of representing the American people that “a third major party is needed.” This represents a seven-percentage-point increase from a year ago and is the highest since Gallup first asked the question in 2003. However, the current measure is not meaningfully different from the prior highs of 61% in 2017 and 62% in 2021, shortly after the January 2021 Capitol Hill riots.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  370. More Republicans (58%) support a third party than support Donald Trump.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  371. Any Republican who tries to become speaker with Democrat votes will be the next to be “vacated”;

    The Caucus rules require a majority of the Caucus to approve to bring a vacate motion to the floor. McCarthy promised to ignore that rule; I doubt the next speaker will be so foolish. It is one of the reasons why the Gaetz cabal cannot succeed — no one is going to give them any power ever again.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  372. Any Republican that needs Democrat votes shouldn’t be a Republican speaker.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  373. More Republicans (58%) support a third party than support Donald Trump.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 5:29 pm

    LOL!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  374. Support for Third U.S. Political Party Up to 63%

    In the abstract. Wait until that third party actually starts to stand for something.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  375. More on that third party support:

    …….(T)he current measure (63%) is not meaningfully different from the prior highs of 61% in 2017 and 62% in 2021, shortly after the January 2021 Capitol Hill riots.
    ………
    Republicans’ support for a third party tends to vary based on whether a Republican or Democratic president is in office. On average, 49% of Republicans have favored a third party in years when a Democratic president is in the White House, compared with 38% in years of a Republican incumbent. In contrast, independents’ and Democrats’ views of a third party have been similar under both types of presidential administrations.
    ………
    ………The No Labels organization says it has no interest in playing a spoiler role and will not decide on its 2024 intentions until after the major-party nominees have been determined.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  376. Those rules are meaningless. The Constitution gives them complete agency, as does the 1st Amendment. Nowhere odes the state have the right to command their votes, they can only select them.

    Going by this source, Kevin, the Constitution doesn’t say anything about it, let alone has agency, or that the 1st Amendment has anything to do with the matter.

    Neither the U.S. Constitution nor federal statutes address the concept of “faithless electors.” This issue is reserved to the states. A majority of states and the District of Columbia External have laws on the books that require electors to pledge to cast their votes for their parties’ nominees for President and Vice President. Fifteen states have laws that impose sanctions on electors for breaking their pledge to cast their vote for their party’s nominee. In July 2020, the United States Supreme Court held that a State may “penalize an elector for breaking his pledge and voting for someone other than the presidential candidate who won his State’s popular vote.” (Chiafalo v. Washington, No. 19–465, slip op. at 1-2 (July 6, 2020).)

    The Supreme Court unanimously upheld WA State law under Chiafalo v. Washington, giving the state the authority to ban or replace faithless electors.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  377. A vote is speech in its most basic form. IF a vote is not protecte3d by the 1st Amendment, nothing is.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  378. Neither the U.S. Constitution nor federal statutes address the concept of “faithless electors.” This issue is reserved to the states.

    The Federalist Papers address “faithless” electors, by denying there is any such thing. See Federalist 68, for example. The Founders intended the Electors to be free agents, not simple bearers of a ministerial duty.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  379. All that he Constitution gives to the state is the method of choosing Electors. Compelling their votes is something that is outside the states’ (or Congress’) remit. The Electoral College is a co-equal, if momentary, branch of government subservient to no one, other than to the time and place of their meeting.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  380. I understand the need of some to make the Electoral College a vassal. Those who want to impose a popular vote regime absolutely require that the Electors have no agency. But that is not how the thing was constructed and to force it to behave differently is no less a coup than Trump attempted, although it will get better press.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  381. The Supreme Court unanimously upheld WA State law under Chiafalo v. Washington, giving the state the authority to ban or replace faithless electors.

    Well, they are wrong, and I do not see how they can claw back a vote after it is regularly given. Chiafalo does not give that power to the state, only the power to penalize an elector who disregards a pledge.

    I think it is a terrible idea to make the Electors ministerial vassals. That the decision aligns their vote with those of the state’s voters does not make me happy, either, since the legislature could require them to vote for Donald Duck if it so chose. Or the winner of some purported popular vote total.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  382. This is federalism, Kevin. If the Constitution doesn’t cover the matter, then it’s left to the states.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  383. I’m trying to work up some interest in who will become speaker of the house, but really, does it matter? Sure, Ukraine funding matters. A government shutdown matters, sort of. The Biden impeachment inquiry hangs in the balance…will we ever find that alleged $5M…winding its way through shell corporations and cutouts…always sadly just out of our grasp.

    Democrats gave Gaetz his Pyrrhic victory. Now will his caucus kick him out? Will they ever put him in a meaningful position? The GOP may have to take the odious step of power sharing with the DEMs in order to cut Gaetz and the gang of eight out of a repeat performance. What’s that going to look like?

    I see nothing noble from the DEMs. Sure, they’re invested in taking advantage of the GOP dysfunction. It would be malpractice had they not voted McCarthy out. But was it good for the country…was it good for the institution…was it good for Ukraine…or the border? Seems to me that the DEMs chose the short-term gotcha over taking the high road and earning some leverage with McCarthy. How delicious it could have been to see Gaetz slapped down with a 300+ vote to retain McCarthy. But alas, not in the cards.

    It’s hard to shed a tear for McCarthy. He made an unusual speech afterwards that started on the high road but found its way back to the clown car. Well, if anyone deserves to rant…no matter how predictable the storyline emerged.

    Scalise vs. Jim Jordan versus ??? Jordan will try to cut Ukraine spending…in the face of 300+ support. Hopefully that gets a hard “no”. Scalise is battling blood cancer. Is this really the time to ratchet up his stress and workload? Hern? Emmer? Arrington? Stefanik? Well, what do we want until Nov 2024 might be the better question. Some sort of border legislation would be nice, though it might steal the thunder from the campaign. Still, probably good for the country though. Democracy needs a win. We need to show the world that we can still self govern. My optimism is low….

    AJ_Liberty (5495b4)

  384. This will go on until 1) The Gaetz people stop their demands or 2) the successful speaker can get some Democrat votes. There is really no other way.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 10/4/2023 @ 4:48 pm

    Only once in past 70 years has a member of one party voted for the Speaker candidate of another:

    Notably, in 2001, a Member who bore the designation of one major party voted for the nominee of the other. Although the table below does not indicate the party affiliation of the Members voting for each candidate, examination of other available records confirms that no such action had occurred at least for the previous half century.9

    9Subsequently, in organizing for that Congress (the 107th), the party caucus against whose nominee the Member voted declined to provide him with committee assignments.

    Source

    So it is highly unlikely that any Democrats will vote for a Republican Speaker (or vice versa). It’s the Republicans problem.

    Rip Murdock (6afd61)

  385. Guess who’s Code Pink’s new BFF.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  386. @388 This is why I am not a pacifist. I agree with code pink when they are right and disagree with them when they are wrong. Henry David Thoreau opposed the mexican war and yet said sharp’s rifles were never used in a better cause on John Brown’s raid on harpers ferry. Vietnam, grenada Iraq and afganistan were wrong WW II and Ukraine are right.

    asset (c6b5c7)

  387. “I’ll believe it when Trump’s popularity and his lead over the Republican primary field dips into low 40s.”
    https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/nikki-haley-rises-second-pair-early-state-gop-polls-rcna118886

    In New Hampshire, according to a USA Today/Boston Globe/Suffolk University poll, Trump gets support from 49% of likely Republican primary voters, Haley gets 19%, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis gets 10%, former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie gets 6%, and entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy and Sen. Tim Scott, R-S.C., both get 4%.

    In South Carolina, meanwhile, a Winthrop University poll has Trump at 51% among Republican voters, Haley at 17%, DeSantis at 12% and Scott at 6%.

    Haley with momentum from the debates, even if the debates were ill managed and missed the point. No good news for team Trump. Guilty of financial fraud. Defamation suit part 2 approaching. Georgia trials of associates starting this month. Gag orders being considered. Breaking the hold of a cult takes time. As much as people have been programmed to like…even love…Trump, his aura is based on being a winner….and there’s no longer winning. There’s a bunch of oldsters wearing retro Trump gear, reliving the magic of 2016. It’s doomed to collapse….

    AJ_Liberty (5495b4)

  388. Has Congressman Bowman been arrested for his insurrection yet? How about for obstructing an offical proceeding?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  389. https://hotair.com/tree-hugging-sister/2023/10/04/magical-joe-9b-in-student-debt-poof-n582448

    Biden violates the law again, but silence from the usual suspects.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  390. CodePink is in bed with the ChiComs, which means Marge is right there with ’em. She is a dumb, foolish loudmouth.

    Just like in the aughts during the Iraq War, Code Pink isn’t so much anti-war, but anti-American.

    In 2014, the Anti-Defamation League revealed that Medea Benjamin, one of Code Pink’s founders, had attended a conference in Tehran that included German neo-Nazi Manuel Ochsenreiter and Kevin Barrett, who has claimed that “al Qaeda is Israeli and the state of Israel is a branch of al Qaeda.” When one fellow attendee, the journalist Gareth Porter, expressed regret for participating in the conference, Benjamin, a former Green Party candidate for California’s governorship, doubled down and insisted that she had no qualms with the conference.

    In 2020, Code Pink initiated a campaign titled “China Is Not Our Enemy” in which the organization advocates for the U.S. to adopt a thoroughly conciliatory approach toward China. It calls on supporters to lobby members of Congress and hosts podcasts and webinars advancing the same argument.

    Code Pink’s website also includes an FAQ section on the Uyghurs. “Our concern is that it is being used as a tool to drive the U.S.’s hybrid war on China,” it states, “instead of a human rights issue that needs to be addressed as such.” This page provides links to “helpful resources” on the topic, one of which appears to treat the plight of the Uyghurs as a human rights nonissue: A video featuring Evans and British academic John Ross shows the latter characterizing the Uyghur genocide allegation as “farcical” and a “total lie.”

    In a recent event, where Code Pink called for end of Putin’s War Against Ukraine, not a single Ukrainian was invited. Way to go, Marge.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  391. Has Congressman Bowman been arrested for his insurrection yet?

    Where was the violence? As defined*, an insurrection requires violence.
    He pulled the alarm in an office building across the street from the Capitol, not at the Capitol itself, so what did his act obstruct, exactly? That said, he should be prosecuted for his illegal act.

    * “a violent uprising against an authority or government”

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  392. Most will find this Ramirez cartoon cheering. (Though that Florida fellow may not.)

    Jim Miller (58eab2)

  393. Hroza lost one-sixth of its population today because of Putin’s terrorist missile attack. The moral case for sending aid to help Ukraine defend itself should be easy, but Jim Jordan has already said that he won’t send any aid if elected Speaker.
    This is why the Dems’ choice to vote against McCarthy (instead of “present”) was a dumb and counterproductive decision.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  394. AJ_Liberty (5495b4) — 10/5/2023 @ 4:30 am

    Touché; I should have been more clear that I meant “I’ll believe it when Trump’s popularity and his lead over the Republican primary field dips into low 40s.in the national polls”, where Trump is currently leading the field with 61% (and +54 over Haley.) Trump in NH is still +30 over Haley and +34 in SC.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  395. Most of Trump’s trials will not puncture the balloon of MAGAWorld, and will occur after Super Tuesday, when it is possible he will have secured the nomination. The Espionage Act and Georgia trials have not been scheduled, and testimony in the election subversion trial won’t start until after Super Tuesday. No one cares about the E. Jean Carroll lawsuit and the current financial fraud civil trial will be under appeal for the next decade.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  396. The first Georgia trial, of Sidney Powell and Kenneth Cheesbro. will start very soon (October 23) and be televised, and excerpts may be shown on news broadcasts and also “debunked” and criticized by right wing talk radio and some cable TV programs.

    The prosecutors will attempt to show all crimes charged were part of a RICO conspiracy to overturn the election results. The idea is that once something is a conspiracy, anyone who does anything to further the conspiracy is guilty of joining an illegal conspiracy.

    Sidney Powell’s main individual offense in this case (she did lots of other things) is planning the “inspection”, in violation of Georgia law, but with the permission of the local election officials, of election equipment in Coffey County, Georgia.

    This caused Brad Raffensperger to throw out all equipment they touched.

    Kenneth Cheesbro is accused of coming up with the substitute electors scheme – his defense is that he was merely giving legal or other advice – the Georgia connection may be the false statements signed by their alternate electors that they were elected.

    Sammy FInkelman (c5132f)

  397. 396. Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 10/5/2023 @ 8:07 am

    This is why the Dems’ choice to vote against McCarthy (instead of “present”) was a dumb and counterproductive decision.

    I don’t think the Democratic leadership really cares about anything except wining elections.

    Democrats were divided, but went along with Jeffries. Ultimately they decided not to save McCarthy because, first, lingering resentment over his making up with Trump after January 6, and second because his word, or his promises, were, they said, unreliable. At their caucus before the vote some members rose up to tell tale after tale of McCarthy not sticking by his promises.

    Kevin McCarthy resents Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer not backing him up as, at one time, they seemed to say that they would.

    Sammy FInkelman (c5132f)

  398. AJ_Liberty (5495b4) — 10/4/2023 @ 7:28 pm

    The GOP may have to take the odious step of power sharing with the DEMs in order to cut Gaetz and the gang of eight out of a repeat performance.

    The idea being bruited about is raising the threshold for raising the question to say 10, or even 44. The idea being that while Democrats will not protect a Republican Speaker, they won’t put their names on a proposal to start the process in the first place. There’s no tradition of making the equivalent of a motion of no confidence in the U.S. House of Representatives.

    Sammy FInkelman (c5132f)

  399. nk @4 Biden is a strong President. He has control of his party.
    I think it’s more like his party has control of him – or he almost always pulls back to what the left wing of his party wants. And that’s about the best you can hope for. A person whose instincts are moderate but who tries to stay in the good graces of the left.

    )It’s been that way for a long time.

    Unfortunately, he’s also an incompetent executive..

    Sammy Finkelman (c5132f)

  400. By the way, Russia has withdrawn most ofits ships from te naval base it has in Crimea – to ports in Russia and more minor ports in Crimea.

    Sammy Finkelman (c5132f)

  401. The GOP may have to take the odious step of power sharing with the DEMs in order to cut Gaetz and the gang of eight out of a repeat performance.

    LOL! Why would the Democrats agree, and what would be their price? One price would be to end the Biden’s impeachment.

    Not.gonna.happen.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  402. I don’t think the Democratic leadership really cares about anything except wining elections.

    Unlike Republicans.

    Comedy Gold!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  403. Democrats were divided, but went along with Jeffries. Ultimately they decided not to save McCarthy because, first, lingering resentment over his making up with Trump after January 6, and second because his word, or his promises, were, they said, unreliable. At their caucus before the vote some members rose up to tell tale after tale of McCarthy not sticking by his promises.

    What was the evidence the Democrats were divided? In the end they were far more unified than the Republicans.

    You don’t think the impeachment investigation had anything to do with it.

    LOL!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  404. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/5/2023 @ 2:23 pm

    What was the evidence the Democrats were divided?

    hey tried to postpone the vote.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/02/us/politics/democrats-mccarthy-speaker.html

    Democrats have been strategizing internally about what concessions they might be able to extract from Mr. McCarthy in exchange for saving him from Mr. Gaetz and his allies. Democrats are eager to see Mr. McCarthy commit to more funding for Ukraine, award more federal projects in Democrats’ districts and honor the deal on spending levels he reached this year with Mr. Biden, according to people familiar with the discussions. All would draw a backlash from Republicans.

    Some Democrats have also floated ideas that seem less likely to be acted upon, such as demanding co-chairs for committees, removing right-wing Republicans from the Rules Committee and even obtaining a promise that the G.O.P. campaign committees will not spend money to defeat politically vulnerable Democrats.

    Sammy Finkelman (c5132f)

  405. With the critical vote possible as soon as Tuesday, Representative Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New York and the minority leader, and his lieutenants have not decided how to proceed.

    Their choices include siding with Mr. McCarthy’s right-wing detractors in voting to remove him, joining most Republicans in backing him or helping him in more passive ways: either failing to show up for the vote or voting “present,” both of which would lower the threshold needed for him to win a majority and keep his job.

    While the antagonism toward Mr. McCarthy is strong among Democrats, some of them also fear that deposing the speaker in this fashion could both damage the institution and prevent the already nearly paralyzed House from accomplishing much legislatively when lawmakers now face a mid-November deadline to fund the government. They also worry about what, and who, could come next.

    Sammy Finkelman (c5132f)

  406. Why is the responsibility of Democrats to bail out the House Republican Conference? I’m sure they can figure it out who should be speaker on their own. The are the majority party, after all.

    And as I have posted before, no representative has ever voted for the opposing party’s choice for speaker, save once in 2001. And that representative ended up without any committee assignments.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  407. Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/5/2023 @ 2:28 pm

    What happened in the end is what counted. The Democrats were disciplined, the Republicans weren’t. Again, why was the responsibility of the Democrats to bail McCarthy out of a problem of is own making?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  408. In the end they were far more unified than the Republicans.

    An artificial unity.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/03/us/politics/democrats-hakeem-jeffries-mccarthy.html

    The leader of the House Democrats instructed his caucus to vote to remove Speaker Kevin McCarthy after a party meeting on Tuesday morning became a bitter venting session in which Democrats aired their disdain for the top Republican.

    Hours before a vote in which Mr. McCarthy would almost certainly need their support to survive, there was little sign that any Democrat — even the most moderate — wanted to save him, according to lawmakers who emerged from the closed-door gathering.

    Democrats watched a video clip of an appearance Mr. McCarthy made on television on Sunday — the morning after Democrats helped him push through legislation to avert a government shutdown — in which he blamed them for trying to prompt a shutdown.

    The minority leader, Representative Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New York, waited until after many members had spoken to issue his marching orders to the caucus: that they should vote against any procedural motion brought to the House floor that would delay the removal of Mr. McCarthy.

    Here is a specific dissenting opinion:

    Representative Mark Takano, a progressive from California, said that not one member in the room rose to make the case for voting “present” on the matter, which would lower the threshold for Mr. McCarthy to win a majority and stay in his post.

    Sammy Finkelman (c5132f)

  409. Democrats playing hardball for a change. I like it! The left is gaining more and more power in democrat caucus.

    asset (879403)


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