Republican Debate Open Thread
[guest post by Dana]
Tonight is the big night! The second Republican candidate debate. It’s also the second debate where frontrunner Donald Trump will not be making an appearance. The former president will instead be rallying in a swing area of northern Michigan. He is scheduled to give a speech before the debate begins.
Anyway, there will be seven candidates will be vying for *second* place: Ron DeSantis, Vivek Ramaswamy, Mike Pence, Nikki Haley, Tim Scott, Chris Christie and Doug Burgum. Former Arkansas Governor Asa Hutchinson failed to make the cut this debate.
It’s ironic that the debate will be held at the Reagan Library in Simi Valley, given the current MAGA state of the Republican Party, which Reagan would likely view as nearly unrecognizable :
The Reagan-era GOP base was made up of fiscal conservatives who wanted to slash government spending while cutting taxes and barriers to free trade, social conservatives who fought to limit abortion rights, and defense hawks who advocated for foreign intervention and steep military spending.
All three parts of Reagan’s “three-legged stool” are caught in a tug of war — one that kicked off as Trump remade the party in his image. Much of the party now wants to impose steep tariffs to limit global trade, while Trump and others have shown they have no issue with harnessing state power to achieve culture war goals. Recently, Trump himself has taken to criticizing the anti-abortion rights movement on his Truth Social platform while criticizing six-week abortion bans as “terrible.” And the war in Ukraine has deeply divided the party, particularly over how much the U.S. should spend supporting its Ukrainian ally.
Anyway, questions to ponder: Will the fading DeSantis come out fighting like a real contender? Will Nikki Haley continue to break through and push on to the front of the debate pack? Will that walking contradiction Vivek Ramaswamy spout more nonsense and yet still charm voters? Will Mike Pence find his voice, and realize that it’s 2023? And without Trump there, who will Chris Christie go after? And so on…
You can find where to watch the debate here.
To the dismay of many former Republicans, sane voters, and to the shame of our country, I’ll leave you with this dismally accurate observation:
Far from being an electoral liability, the former president is starting to lead — or at the very least tie — Biden in general election polling.
Not only is Trump the top choice of a growing majority of Republican primary voters in national surveys, but Republicans overwhelmingly think he’s the candidate with the best chance of beating Biden next fall. And poll after poll suggests Biden and Trump are essentially tied with just over a year until the general election.
Unbelievable.
—Dana
Hello!
Dana (aac8e9) — 9/27/2023 @ 12:13 pmIf I was advising anyone on that stage, besides DeSantis, I would tell them to spend at least half their time bashing the bejeebers out of Newsom. Give DeSantis a couple kidney punches along the way for even entertaining the idea of a WWE one-on-one with Newsom while Hannity plays fluffer.
If the RNC dolts want to have the worst Democrat Governor in the audience, then don’t let the opportunity go to waste.
Hammer, hammer, hammer him and the policies that have everyone so disgruntled. Draw the distinction between the two parties, not another gripe fest about the distinctions within your own party.
The last three years is the current topic. Stick to that and paint the ugly picture that is the Democrats in a way that the stupid people can recognize.
My opinion, of course.
BuDuh (d920c6) — 9/27/2023 @ 12:42 pmWasting time on someone who is not running for President in 2024? LOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 12:48 pmWell said BuDuh.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/27/2023 @ 12:52 pmNBC News’s left wing framing of Republican positions is disgusting. They deserve to be hoist upon their own petard.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/27/2023 @ 12:53 pmI will take a moment here to ask the moderators if they ever have a problem with Rip Murdock’s schtick?
I find him to be so off putting.
BuDuh (4214e4) — 9/27/2023 @ 1:04 pmFeel free to block me. I will continue, however, to respond to posts that are factually wrong or just doesn’t make sense (like advocating the Republican presidential contenders to attack Newsom, who is clearly not a candidate for President, at the expense of explaining why they are the best person to be President).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 1:14 pmThe debate will be who is the bigger dwarf. The ghost of wendell wilke with gop base yelling we want TRUMP! Populist goppers the majority of gop primary voters hate the same people trump hates especially never trumpers.
asset (fbcab5) — 9/27/2023 @ 1:50 pmDid you even try to understand the concept, Rip?
Gavin Newsom is going to be a guest in the audience at tonight’s debate.
DeSantis and Fox previously elevated Newsom(liberalism) to be the titular face of the opposition to DeSantis(conservatism) by having their silly debate.
The other candidates have an opportunity to dress down all that Newsom represents well before Hannity frames himself and DeSantis as idiots.
This is perfect timing to do serious damage where the fight ultimately lays. And whoever lands the best blows against what Newsom represents will score points with those who want to know if they truly understand what is happening to this country.
This has NOTHING to do with whether or not Newsom runs for POTUS 2024.
BuDuh (4214e4) — 9/27/2023 @ 1:57 pm1) I doubt they will take your advice. The candidates on stage have far more important things to talk about than Gavin Newsom-like win Republican primaries and caucuses. I’m not sure how attacking Newsom gets them there.
2) And Donald Trump will continue to have a massive lead in the polls.
3) Comedy Gold!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 2:02 pmOf course you aren’t. That is why you say doltish things.
BuDuh (4214e4) — 9/27/2023 @ 2:04 pmLOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 2:05 pmIt may be a good tactic in a general election debate, tying whomever the Democratic candidate for president is to Newsom, but during a primary election debate it doesn’t make any sense.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 2:07 pmOuch!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 2:11 pmThis is where you get lost because you don’t pay attention.
Newsom is already at the dinner table because of DeSantis’ ill advised exclusive “debate” with him. That is the part that didn’t make sense.
But now that it is a reality, the other candidates can use tonight’s debate to beat DeSantis to the punch and level liberalism.
BuDuh (4214e4) — 9/27/2023 @ 2:13 pmBuDuh and Rip Murdock,
Lighten up.
With that, DeSantis, who is a Republican candidate for the presidency, *chose* to debate Newsom. He didn’t have to, he didn’t need to, and in my estimation, he has already diminished his standing by being goaded into a snipe fight for the sake of pride and ego. Democrats are going to Democrat, but that does not mean that Republicans, who are running for the presidency, should lower them selves to childish games, especially when they are fading from the lead, and are in danger of ending up at the back of the pack. In other words, DeSantis has done himself no favors, including this debate, as well as picking a fight with Disney, etc.
Dana (aac8e9) — 9/27/2023 @ 2:17 pmI don’t think they need to lower themselves in any way, Dana. Certainly not to the bizarre DeSantis/Hannity level.
But Newsom is Biden’s surrogate that landed an invite to be in the audience tonight for an RNC Primary debate.
An articulate take down will long be remembered as the highlight of these lousy debates and possibly derail the Hannity slobber-fest that should have never happened.
Or does team Biden deserve some sort of reprieve while the GOP is in Infighting Season?
BuDuh (4214e4) — 9/27/2023 @ 2:23 pmLOL! The other Republican candidates (at least those polling above 5%) want to replace DeSantis as #2, and want to be the Republican nominee for President, so they don’t care about “owning the libs.” I haven’t seen any reporting that the Newsom-DeSantis debate is an issue for them (except possibly as a waste of DeSantis’s time, roughly one month before the Iowa caucuses, where Trump is +33 over DeSantis).
Trump and the others must be gleeful that DeSantis will be wasting his time debating Newsom in Georgia.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 2:27 pmWho invited Newsom?
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 2:34 pm@17
I’m going to politely disagree with you here.
DeSantis enjoys is support primarily based on his willingness to engage a fight with Newsom (as a way to contrast his policies as Governor) and his willingness to engage with Disney.
He’s still super popular in Florida.
It remains to be seen if such things works at a national scale that can overcome all the Trump news.
whembly (5f7596) — 9/27/2023 @ 2:55 pmThe field much catch up to the leader or else the debate is fairly pointless. Yes there’s 3 months before an actual vote, but they either believe that Trump is a losing bet in the general or they don’t. If Trump will be a weak general candidate, then the debaters need to hammer that. I tend to believe that Trump general polls will tank once the Dems unload J6 and indictment ads. He will hemorrhage moderates and independents and lose the swing states. So, job #1 is why should people be watching and listening to you? If it’s for 2028 or VP (none will get selected), then it’s a snoozer.
Job #2 is to become the front runner behind Trump. I see this as a battle between DeSantis and Haley. Ramaswamy will continue to be an annoyance and an easy target of opportunity for the others. I anticipate some references to Newsom if he is in the audience because it provides an opportunity for some light humor. It can also be turned on DeSantis for making the debate. California is deep blue so taking shots at CA is easy but I’m not sure it changes hearts or minds of people voting in the GOP primary. Hey, Newsom might end up the candidate…it’s not a low or minuscule probability. If Republicans can seed some Democrat dissension, why not? But that’s not job #1 or #2. I look forward to debate even if most Americans are not. Maybe I’m disappointed…but this is another big opportunity for the GOP to start saving itself…fingers crossed.
AJ_Liberty (1295e6) — 9/27/2023 @ 2:59 pmWhat support-not nationally at least (Trump +40 over DeSantis), and certainly not as a Presidential candidate in Florida (Trump +10). His national favorability is underwater like his presidential prospects (-14%).
But you may be right that he is “super popular” in Florida. At the rate things are going, that’s where he will end up for the rest of his gubernatorial term.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 3:15 pmOr to start planning for a new conservative party to run candidates beginning in the 2026 midterms and then the 2028 presidential campaign.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 3:21 pmOne, the thing about Reagan and the debate at the Reagan Library and the fact that Reagan was governor of California, he wouldn’t recognize California politics under Newsom, but he also wouldn’t recognize GOP politics under Trump, IMO. I’m guessing some candidates will invoke his name, but most of them don’t deserve to.
Two, as I recall at the previous debate, there was a plenty of criticism of Democrats and Biden, and I expect the same tonite, and if some enterprising candidates want to take shots at Newsom in the audience, I’d be surprised if that didn’t happen.
Three, I expect the candidates to take more shots at each other than at the frontrunning adjudicated liar and sexual abuser and fraudster and criminally indicted no-show who currently has more support from my party than the rest of the field combined, because my party is a cult and you don’t piss off the cult members by criticizing their cult leader, even if the cult leader peels off one unhinged rant after the next on his money-losing social media platform, even if he confuses Biden and Obama or George W. and Jeb! Even if he said he’d “terminate” the Constitution or sh-t on the First Amendment by shutting down media outlets he don’t like, or imply that his onetime Chairman of the JCOS should be executed for treason against the cult leader.
Four, because this party is a cult (which I may have already mentioned), this debate is going to be meaningless, because no one will get enough traction to make a difference or get anywhere near the cult leader poll-wise. I wish every candidate well, especially Haley and except Ramaswamy, but it’ll still be meaningless.
Five, despite my expectation that there will no movement in the polls from this meaningless debate, I’ll still be watching out of general curiosity, just to see if anyone pleasantly surprises me.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 3:37 pmMonmouth University Poll 9/26/23
Poll cross tabs.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 3:38 pmNone of the people on stage tonight have developed a great deflection of the “do you repudiate Trump” questions they are bound to get from the likes of network news. I’d favor something like “I think he did a lot of good things like remain in Mexico policy… he really laid a stink bomb around the events of Jan6, here is how we reunite and move on…”
steveg (483085) — 9/27/2023 @ 4:03 pmMaybe the friendly moderators will be an opportunity to try out a better line than the one I came up with
The GOP today is closer to Dick Gephardt than to Newt Gingrich (the two party leaders of the late 90s).
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 4:15 pmTricia McLaughlin, a spokeswoman for Ramaswamy, said … his focus is still on getting people to know him.
I would think that he’d be wanting to avoid that. Instead he will put up this week’s pretense.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 4:18 pmNewsom is already at the dinner table because of DeSantis’ ill advised exclusive “debate” with him. That is the part that didn’t make sense.
Governor, shouldn’t you be backstage debating Newsom?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 4:19 pmYes, it’s a cult.
I’ve actually heard Pence and Romney say that Christ is their Personal Lord and Savior, but I never those words across Trump’s lips. That’s the whole ball game.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 4:22 pmThey can’t “deflect” those questions with “he really laid a stink bomb around the events of Jan 6,” as that would be an insult to his supporters, whom they will need for the general election.
Three (polar opposite) candidates have come up with an answer; DeSantis, Christie and Ramaswamy. DeSantis is trying to have it both ways by downplaying January 6th; when he said that he “wasn’t in Washington on that day” and followed up by promising Trump and the January 6th rioters pardons, as well as criticizing the seditious conspiracy sentences (no doubt they would receive pardons on “day one.”) Ramaswamy has promised the same. Christie, obviously, is not expecting any MAGA votes.
The others on the stage have made their choice. All of them have promised to at least consider a Trump pardon.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 4:35 pmDid Dick Gephardt’s Democrats have a faction that tried to subvert the Constitution by interrupting the peaceful transfer of power? LOL!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 4:38 pmI’m sure a huge chunk of that 30% don’t know Ramaswamy is a Hindu.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 4:41 pmIf you’re right, and I hope you are, that Trump will bleed support as his legal trials progress, it seems to me that Ramaswamy is the likeliest beneficiary. Who has more of what attracted Trump’s supporters to him in the first place, including how obnoxiously annoying he is, but without the criminal baggage?
lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/27/2023 @ 4:53 pmCatoggio is as pessimistic as me that, absent some major unforeseen event, Trump will have no serious challenger and will therefore be the GOP nominee.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 4:53 pmMAGAWorld true believers loathe Ramaswamy, there is no way they would vote for him. He’s Big Pharma, non-Christian, too inexperienced, and a fast talker. I won’t mention that some consider him ineligible. (Oops!)
The best second choice alternative for Trump voters would be DeSantis, but MAGAWorld true believers loathe him too (they’re very finicky).
From this week’s Morning Consult tracking poll:
Personally, his foreign policy positions are a deal-breaker.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 5:23 pmDid Dick Gephardt’s Democrats have a faction that tried to subvert the Constitution by interrupting the peaceful transfer of power? LOL!
Myopic to the end.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 5:40 pmThat’s the whole ball game.
Donald Trump could not name the first 3 books of either Testament.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 5:41 pmNearly half of the GOP electorate says it is either extremely (26%) or very (21%) important for the next president to be someone from outside the political establishment
The Know-Nothings.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 5:42 pmI haven’t ended. 🤣
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/27/2023 @ 5:43 pm@35, electability will figure in as well. Emotionally and superficially, yeah, MAGA supporters might like the cocksuredness of Ramaswamy…but he’s an amusing lightweight that people don’t really trust. They haven’t seen him for years on the Apprentice. They’ll pass.
DeSantis will be perceived as not being ready for primetime. They may love what he’s doing in Florida, but his campaign misteps, clunky personality, and creepy forced smile isn’t what they want. They love his anger and feistiness, but they don’t trust him to win the general.
Haley has a nice lead over Biden pollwise. Sure, she’s not the big culture warrior that is DeSantis or even Ramaswamy, but she’s smooth without being slick and most respect her knowledge…especially on foreign policy. She coalesces the non-Trump vote then starts picking off MAGA that eventually will see the writing on the wall. Will it be a 65-35 drubbing as AllahNick predicts (Trump v. Haley)? Maybe, but I wouldn’t base my prognostications on past primaries or current national polls. We’ve never had a potential bankruptcy, civil verdict, and criminal conviction all lingering at the same time over a candidate. Trump’s negatives are whopping.
GOP voters still have plenty of time to reshape this narrative. How about starting tonight?
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 5:49 pmRip: “Or to start planning for a new conservative party to run candidates beginning in the 2026 midterms…”
Except, where are all of these conservatives that are magically going to take over? Over half the GOP are populist Trumpers who aren’t especially ideological. They dance to his tune….and more shysters will gladly pick up the flute and continue the grift. A certain Tucker comes to mind.
Either you’re wrong that 50% of the GOP electorate are firmly MAGA or you’re wrong that a big chunk of that 50% will wistfully come back to conservatism in 3 years. Which one is it?
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:01 pmFirst impression of the candidate introductions: DeSantis looks like that forced smile puts him in physical pain.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:06 pmWere no Americans available to moderate this thing?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:06 pmRip: “Or to start planning for a new conservative party to run candidates beginning in the 2026 midterms…”
We don’t need a new wingnut party, we need a center-right party.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:07 pmSure, she’s not the big culture warrior that is DeSantis or even Ramaswamy,
I see no indication that most Americans are demanding a culture war.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:10 pmSo far, Scott shows a bit of life, Vivek delivers his canned pitch, Pence is a stiff as a board.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:11 pmI wonder if they will allow continued “he mentioned me” ping-pong “debates” and colloquies.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:14 pmThe moderators have already lost control.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:16 pmDeSantis takes credit for using federal largess to pay down state debt.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:17 pmDeSantis bringing it.
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:17 pmThey tee up something for Scott
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:19 pmBurgum is having a debate with his eyebrows. Milley has the “four-eye” variety, but Doug’s is Groucho caliber.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:19 pm$2T in the hole, can we really cut taxes significantly for the middle class?
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:20 pm$2T in the hole, can we really cut taxes significantly for the middle class?
Depends on what you mean by “the middle class.” Trump cut taxes significantly for everyone who claimed the standard deduction. He did this by jumping up taxes significantly on itemizers, notably by capping the SALT deduction.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:25 pm* He
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:25 pmdidBALANCED this by …Tim Scott on speed…I like it
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:29 pmRamaswamy goes full on nativist. So does Scott. Reagan is spinning in his grave.
Me, I think that Hindus should not be citizens as they are not beholden to God’s Law.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:30 pmTim Scott on speed…I like it
Vivek is on crack.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:30 pmCut the f’ng mics
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:31 pm“Shut the F up, Donnie!”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:31 pmWhat a bunch of whiny little b*tches.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:34 pmVivek and Tim Scott competing for biggest misunderstander of the 14th Amendment. Scott at least seems to have read it. Vivek not so much.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:34 pm@64, yep, not a clue. They’re making an emotional argument to the audience.
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:36 pmBut good comment by Burgum.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:37 pmChristie was expected to criticize Trump for being a no-show, but DeSantis stepped in, too.
Hello…Kristi Noem commercial. Definitely a Trump VP ad
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:37 pmWeak moderator panel….got to establish control…no one there has the personality to do it.
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:38 pmESL, even the Brit.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:41 pmGun safety: Make sure the safety is on and don’t point it at people even then.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:43 pmFintonol? I heard Scott and Pence say it.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:44 pmHaley said fentanyl.
But Ilia Calderon is sexy…Stuart isn’t
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:45 pmTruck tunnels under the wall? I’m waiting to hear about the hollowed out babies next.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:45 pmBut Ilia Calderon is sexy…Stuart isn’t
I guess.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:46 pmSamurai sword to Ramaswamy’s neck…please
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:47 pmTurn off the effing microphones
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:47 pmObamacare IS here to stay, thanks to the so-called Freedom Caucus torpedoing Ryan’s plan to gut it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:48 pmPence dreaming….
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:50 pmDear mouthy candidate: the camera is elsewhere.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:50 pmPence dreaming
Who is giving him money?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:50 pmGreat health care answer by Haley….Pence whiffs
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:53 pmDear Lord: why do we have so many health BKs? Because people don’t buy insurance EVEN WHEN the government is paying for 90% of it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:53 pmScott is wrong, too, about the 14th Amendment, along with Vivek. Ridiculous.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:54 pmThe moderators are sucking.
I know a guy who kissed off Medicare Parts B and D becasue — even with significant government subsidies, he didn’t want to spend the cost of 3 grams of pot a month on health care.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:55 pmWell..at least I don’t want to throttle the audience by the neck
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:55 pmThe moderators are sucking.
They aspire to be sucking. Not only can’t they control the panel, but they ask such stupid questions.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:56 pmThe 911 hucksters need Sally Struthers.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:58 pmI still want to know from each candidate why Trump supporters should move to them….why are they better than Trump?
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:59 pmOh no, there’s DeSantis’ awkward weird smile at the end of his comments.
Christie, DeSantis and Haley are solid on law enforcement, as expected.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:02 pmHaley on fire
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:02 pmDeSantis having a better night.
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:04 pmPence: “I’m going to make my own speech, and then I might get to your question.”
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:08 pmMaybe he’ll have an answer in two weeks, because he didn’t answer it tonite.
Paul, you must be delayed
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:09 pmChris Christie would be good in almost any cabinet job, but AG would be most fun.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:10 pmPence wit not going over well
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:10 pmChristie would be perfect for AG…of course not under Trump
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:11 pmPence wit not going over well
I think he watches Bob Hope tapes (sic) for inspiration.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:12 pmDeSantis is a little better, but I still don’t like that he’s in favor of committing an act of war on Mexico while not supporting Ukraine for lawfully defending itself against an unlawful invasion.
I like Haley’s and Burgum’s answers on healthcare.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:13 pmI’m almost a half hour delayed, AJ.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:14 pmDoggie needed walkies.
@98, agreed but I can see how the masses like the notion of attacking inside Mexico
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:14 pmWhere’s Rip?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:14 pmHot take: No one on this stage is closing the distance between themselves and Trump.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:15 pmVivek is going to reach out to young Americans by taking away their phones. Good luck with that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:15 pmHaley gets dumber listening to Vivek, and he tries talking over her.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:17 pmShut up Burgrum
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:17 pmDeSAntis wrong on Ukraine; Scott correct
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:20 pmScott says that Ukraine money is a loan. Vivek disagrees. He know a lot about stiffing people.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:20 pmChristie can’t believe the naivete he was hearing on Ukraine. Boom.
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:22 pmMy take so far…
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:23 pmDown: Vivek, Scott, Pence.
Up: Haley, DeSantis (despite that act of war thing), Burgum, Christie.
Truth from Christie.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:23 pmGo, SOCOM.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:25 pmInvading Mexico is a non-starter.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:28 pmShe’s right about Chinese drones. But they are really good drones. US producers of small drones are generally 3rd rate. Sure, there’s Aerovironment, but there’s also a lot of DoD shlubware.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:28 pmHaley makes a great case on Mexico and China
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:28 pmInvading Mexico is a non-starter.
Indeed, but special forces in the night are a different matter.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:29 pm@113 custom builds
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:29 pmI still do not get the international panel thing. Is the new guy at Faux trying to impress his London friends?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:30 pm@113 custom builds
You have no idea how bad some of that crap is.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:30 pmIt’s not rocket science to assemble a quadcopter from quality non-Chinese parts
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:33 pmYou would think. I have a project that has been in limbo for a year because the mandated government drone supplier cannot get their drone to fly where you point it and not jam its own avionics.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:34 pmAdam Kinzinger:
lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:37 pm@121, it HAS to be cooperative
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:39 pmThat is what we actually should do but it doesn’t hit the dopamine right.
We tried that with Mexico. Don’t you think we tried that? If failed there, and it failed in Columbia, too. Why? Because the local politicians were never really on board. They took our money and threw some small fries our way, but mostly they took our money. Columbia has become a narco-state, as has Mexico.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:43 pm@121, it HAS to be cooperative
What happens when it CAN’T be?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:44 pmBalanced Budget Amendment…nothing tough with that idea
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:44 pmI’m moving DeSantis to “down”, for his foolishness on Putin’s War Against Ukraine. I’m getting close to NeverDeSantis.
Scott is wrong about aid to Ukraine. Eh.
Ramaswamy is channeling Putin propaganda. Good grief, he’s the worst.
Christie again is solid. Fat, but solid.
Haley: “I’m feeling a little bit but dumber every time you talk.” Well done, and great comment on China.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:44 pmSame for Burgum.
Compared to what it was, I wouldn’t say Colombia has fully reverted, FARC is a whisper of what it was But it wasn’t just paying off pols, but a Giulianiesque figure, Alvaro Uribe as president getting things done, in that respect they do seem to have tracked similar to NYC with subsequent Presidents in terms ofresisting drug cultivation and supply.
urbanleftbehind (d31136) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:49 pmBalanced Budget Amendment…nothing tough with that idea
Won’t work. Many states have those things, and they just issue phony income forecasts. California does that every year.
What is needed is a Spending Cap Amendment. Tie next years spending to a percentage of the last few years average GDP, with a 2/3rds override option.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:49 pmMExican politicians would benefit from the narco bosses getting dead from time to time.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:50 pmShut up Tim
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:51 pmShut the F up, Donny
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:51 pmTim Scott can’t stop interrupting….
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:51 pm@98 “DeSantis is a little better, but I still don’t like that he’s in favor of committing an act of war on Mexico while not supporting Ukraine for lawfully defending itself against an unlawful invasion.”
Stressing the importance of our border security as opposed to some other country’s border is not something I’d hold against a presidential candidate. I have to wonder about those who would link our border situation with Ukraine’s, as if they’re equivalent.
lloyd (c90050) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:52 pmI have to wonder about those who would link our border situation with Ukraine’s, as if they’re equivalent.
It’s all “national interest” and the two are comparable on that basis.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:54 pmFor me, this debate definitely solidified the down and up candidates.
Christie is still a solid “up” despite that dumb “Donald Duck” remark.
Ramaswamy’s remark about putting people to work but wanting firing a million employees is flat-out sophomoric, and his comment does nothing to address our national debt.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 7:56 pmThere is only one thing I am sure of: Donald Trump’s presence would have degraded this debate immeasurably.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 8:01 pmChristie is still a solid “up” despite that dumb “Donald Duck” remark.
It was funny when his aides heard it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 8:01 pmScott is getting worse on debt because growing the economy is only part of the equation. None of the candidates have addressed entitlement reform.
They cut off Burgum’s microphone but not Scott’s?
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 8:02 pmUP: Haley, Christie, Burgum
DOWN: Scott, Ramaswamy, Pence
DeSantis is generally UP but I agree with Paul that his Ukraine view is a huge negative for me. Burgum might be up but he’s still irrelevant.
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 8:04 pmThey even kept the split screen on Scott.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 8:04 pmSo, Newsom is going to share the screen with Hannity on the “analysis.” I wonder what he will bring besides “Republicans are bad.”
Gas prices at the station closest to my old house in L.A.: $6.69 for regular. There are some other stations under $6, but not many. In my NM zip code the number is $3.65 – $3.75 (and highly competitive).
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 8:07 pm@139: Ditto
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 8:08 pmNot much market share was taken from Trump. A few good attacks by DeSantis and Christie on Trump but the debate optics were awful…too much cross talk. No real questions on electability. Questions were kind of weird at times. Too much preening. I want 3 people on the stage: DeSantis, Christie, Haley
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 8:10 pmPence is a walking-talking platitude with a serious somber-sounding voice.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 8:10 pmUgh, Scott, the curtain thing with Haley.
@123. It didn’t fail in Colombia. As to illicit American drug use, Colombia used to be what Mexico is now. The Mexican cartels grew to fill the void vacated by Colombian cartels. And those Colombian cartels were substantially knocked down by American-funded and assisted, Colombian military operations. It took time, patience and cooperation, but it worked. Not perfectly, not completely, but enough. If we made the requisite commitment to the same sort of cooperative project in Mexico, instead of appealing to the xenophobic demagoguery craved by Trump’s base, there’s no reason to think we can’t achieve comparable results. Yes, the Mexican government and military have big-time corruption problems, but so did/does Colombia’s. The patience and commitment required to find and work with the right government and military partners should eventually yield results. And even if that’s wrong, even if the Mexican cartels can never be defeated cooperatively, the alternative, invading our largest trading partner unilaterally, whether by day or night, is insane. It’s a guaranteed operational and policy disaster of historical dimensions.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 9/27/2023 @ 8:19 pmThe two most consultant-driven candidates: DeSantis (fire the consultant who told him how to smile) and Scott (too much overtalking, I’ve seen too much of that on basketball courts), with an honorable mention to Vivek.
All that said, none of this will change the polling to any major degree, IMO.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 8:22 pmIf any of the candidates mentioned Newsom by name, I didn’t hear it. A few comments about California, yes.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/27/2023 @ 8:33 pm@145, bingo…you can’t violate Mexico’s sovereignty. You make Russia’s case by doing so.
@146, the debate design with these moderators protected Trump…once again. You cannot make headway into his lead without challeging the proposition of a convicted man running for President. You cannot be the law and order party without challenging Trump’s actions. Christie went down that path but let his competitors off the hook for their hand raise in the first debate. That deserved a follow up at this debate.
Hey DeSantis and Christie hit Trump for not being there…great. But Trump’s crazy social media posts…not mentioned. Why? Because Fox protects Trump. The opinion people do not want those hard questions and questions embarrassing to Trump. Right Wing media has to want a contest for there to be one. Paul is right, this didn’t move much…
AJ_Liberty (426775) — 9/27/2023 @ 8:41 pmI get dumber when I listen to all the dwarfs debating not just the chinese communist manchurian candidate vivek what ever his last name is. Why is mike pence doing his lost in space cadet no one wants you. Someone should ask desatan how he “earned” his bronze star as he keeps trying to fool voters into thinking he served as a navy seal. Most in the military are proud of their medals and don’t hide and refuse to say how they got their medal.
asset (d06162) — 9/27/2023 @ 10:35 pmI want 3 people on the stage: DeSantis, Christie, Haley
The debate rules seem to favor Trump, by packing the event with extras.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 10:43 pm@145, bingo…you can’t violate Mexico’s sovereignty. You make Russia’s case by doing so.
Ukraine wasn’t shipping drugs into Russia by the ton. We didn’t win in Columbia, it’s just that Mexico has the products “we” want (meth and fentanyl) and it’s closer and easier to import. We used to produce our own opioids (Oxy), now we outsource.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 10:49 pmchinese communist manchurian candidate vivek what ever his last name is
Got that right.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 10:51 pmThe U.S./Mexico border is “National Interest.” The Ukraine border is “Foreign National Interest,” to put a fine point on it The former is an immediate existential crises, the latter is not. A contrast in reality.
felipe (9bcc73) — 9/28/2023 @ 3:56 amI’d prefer that as well.
felipe (9bcc73) — 9/28/2023 @ 4:00 amlurker (cd7cd4) — 9/27/2023 @ 8:19 pm
Good points.
felipe (9bcc73) — 9/28/2023 @ 4:05 amThe “Ukraine border” is their interest, but that’s not the issue.
Dealing with a hostile imperialist foreign power like Russia is the issue, and it’s a direct American national security interest.
Paul Montagu (d52d7d) — 9/28/2023 @ 5:33 amWhile you’re at it, why don’t you invade Neiman-Marcus so your wives will not be spending all your money there?
Here’s a radical thought: Clean up your spoiled-baby, self-indulgent, libertine, over-affluent, fat-assed society so it won’t be a magnet for illegal mind-altering substances.
As a first step, you could make the punishment for using and possession with intent to use personally, the same as selling and possession with intent to sell.
nk (bb1548) — 9/28/2023 @ 6:10 amAs a known DeSantis honk, but I want more details on this ‘Mexico’ plan.
I realize that this isn’t the format, so he or his peeps should elaborate.
Did he mean literally conquering Mexico?
Or is he meaning things like spycraft/drones/special forces?
If he meant going all Hernán Cortés on them, yeah I’m not on board.
Other than that, DeSantis did pretty good. Still needed to do more imo.
Haley did the best imo…hopefully, that gives her more momentum.
whembly (5f7596) — 9/28/2023 @ 6:23 amI didn’t watch but I’m glad to hear Haley did well. Have read Scott did well also. Too bad Desantis didn’t lay an egg. I’m not a fan of him.
Time123 (5c552e) — 9/28/2023 @ 6:59 amStill, why no questions on the wisdom of nominating a candidate facing 4 indictments…including the possibility of 1 or more trials during the general election….and the specter of constitutional crisis of self pardons and a potential cabinet of dubiously-qualified yes-men?
It’s not clear to me that a good chunk of the 58% supporting Trump will abandon ship because Haley or DeSantis said something interesting about the border, China, or education. This is a referendum on Trump…his style, his problems with the law, his challenges with truth and reality, his isolationism, his bizarre social media posts, his electability in the face of all of this, and the quality of his future advisors. How can a debate not focus on this…and how could candidates not insist on bringing it front and center?
Tim Scott is talking about curtains…CURTAINS! The moderators want to play SURVIVOR…and demonstrate no urgency to control the cross talk and impertinence. SMDH. It’s all unserious.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/28/2023 @ 7:03 amThe historically Trump-leaning Drudge Poll scores the debate:
Haley (37%)
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 8:30 amDeSantis (22%)
Ramaswamy (18%)
Christie (13%)
Bergum (5%)
Scott (3%)
Pence (2%)
I want 3 people on the stage: DeSantis, Christie, Haley
Agreed, but you’d have to take Ratsaswarmy, too.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 8:31 amso it won’t be a magnet for illegal mind-altering substances.
Taking most prescription painkillers off the US market was probably not a great idea. Replacing prescription Oxy with fentanyl, then going all medieval-lawyer on the people who made Oxy, did not improve anyone’s life (except for the aforementioned lawyers).
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 8:34 amWhat happened with painkillers in the US was the exact opposite of what drug-legalization advocates suggest. A regulated system, managed by doctors, was replaced by more Drug War. For the Children™
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 8:36 amStill, why no questions on the wisdom of nominating a candidate facing 4 indictments…including the possibility of 1 or more trials during the general election….and the specter of constitutional crisis of self pardons and a potential cabinet of dubiously-qualified yes-men?
“Should the RNC bar any candidate convicted of 3 or more felonies from nomination at the Convention?”
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 8:49 amKevin, you should watch “ painkiller” on Netflix
Time123 (c89298) — 9/28/2023 @ 9:27 amTime,
I have no illusions about Oxy or other opioids. I have buried several friends due to prescribed Oxy turning into a terminal addiction. But the replacement — black market fentanyl — is a hundred times worse.
There are those who argue that dangerous street drugs should be replaced with regulated ones, or the dangerous drugs themselves be legalized and regulated. Several European countries do this with heroin, for example. What happened here was the opposit3e — the regulated drugs were outlawed and the black market took over.
Complaining about “bad to worse” does not imply that I don’t recognize bad.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 9:37 amIf I were writing debate questions for Republican nominees, here are a few I would ask:
* Currently there is a mass migration of “refugees” — largely for economic reasons — flooding across our southern border. President Biden seems intent on allowing this flow to continue. If you become president in 2025, what will you do to address this? Will you simply block further migration, or will you take extraordinary measures to quickly repatriate these immigrants? If so, what measures?
* California’s concealed carry laws were struck down in Bruen. Recently, California passed new laws that are actually MORE restrictive than the laws struck down. Would you ask Congress to pass a national law overriding state restrictions of this sort? Would you promise to appoint judges who support the Second Amendment?
* Should children be subjected to surgical alteration, or extreme medical intervention, to “affirm” an expressed gender identity? Should parents be pressured to agree to such intervention at the risk of losing custody? Should Congress and/or federal regulation bar such procedures on minor children?
* On a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being worst, what impact would a Russian victory in Ukraine have on America’s national interests? Does Russia have to withdraw entirely from Ukraine, or is there some lesser victory possible?
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 9:54 amGetting back to the so-called debates (I did not watch a single second of this one), does it strike anyone else that it’s a practical joke played by friends of Trump Ronna McDaniel and Fox News on the wannabes?
nk (bb1548) — 9/28/2023 @ 9:57 amGetting back to the so-called debates (I did not watch a single second of this one)
And yet you will an an opinion.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 10:17 amIt’s a practical joke on the Republican voter. The next debate should be Haley, DeSantis, Christie and (unfortunately) Vivek the mini-Trump.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 10:19 am* And yet you will HAVE an opinion.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 10:20 amEd Morrissey is correct.
NJRob (644675) — 9/28/2023 @ 10:22 amMorrissey is correct when he says that Fox flubbed it.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 10:38 am* And yet you will HAVE an opinion.
Many opinions are formed by second hand information.
nk (bb1548) — 9/28/2023 @ 10:50 am@174,
1. The amount of talking over was unacceptable. There was no penalty for being disruptive. After debate #1, the rules of engagement should have been your mic is turned off until you are recognized. Maybe give them a light to activate if they want to respond…but on the second thought, all seven lights would be continuously lit as they understand more time is better than less time speaking. It’s difficult to have back-and-forth with so many people on stage and remain fair. It also extends trivial conversations and shortens topics that deserve more time. Every candidate should have been allowed to talk about Ukraine, China, and Trump. I doubt they did.
2. Ilia Calderon’s questions were by designed to come from the liberal perspective…or at least intended to pull back extreme positions. It didn’t bother me, but it became filler to avoid directly addressing contrasts with Trump. Again, the debate should have been aimed at convincing Trump supporters why they should abandon Trump and consider the candidate. That just didn’t come across…and I would argue that was purposeful in the design of the debate.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 9/28/2023 @ 11:02 amA question for those who watched the debate: Did anyone there, moderator or candidates, mention, even indirectly, what I just described as our worst domestic problem? (Over on the open thread.)
Jim Miller (a41107) — 9/28/2023 @ 12:37 pmWhen I first suggested this, I was mostly joking, but I am beginning to think we should try something like this: If one of the candidates in these “debates” talks over another, the offending candidate should be ejected. (For men, I would have a linebacker or two carry them off; for women, perhaps a couple of ladies from those “mixed martial arts” shows.)
If that seems too tough, perhaps the offender could get one warning before they get ejected.
Jim Miller (a41107) — 9/28/2023 @ 12:45 pmAnd I would be persuaded, AJ. I could stand less than 30 minutes of that barely-contained spectacle.
felipe (5e2a04) — 9/28/2023 @ 12:59 pmFrom what I have read (Kevin!), any serious candidate would have walked out of this Jerry Springer Show remake after 10 minutes.
nk (bb1548) — 9/28/2023 @ 1:38 pmMany opinions are formed by second hand information.
But they are often just regurgitation of that second-hand information.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 1:48 pm@180:
They should have, but the example Romney set in 2012 is that you tolerate asshat moderators.
Scott, Ramaswampy and Bergum were the worst offenders, but the rule that you get to respond (and the moderators ignoring that rule) is what turned it into a free-for-all.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 1:52 pmI missed 2012’s Newt Gingrich throughout that debate. And those present missed a golden opportunity to channel Newt.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 1:54 pmRIP Michael Gambon, 82. Dumbledore dies again.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 2:14 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 1:54 pm
I remember that. you are so right.
Re: Dumbledore
I mourned Harris’ passing, but was delighted with Gambon’s spry performance. Harris gave the part gravitas, and Gambon, verve.
felipe (9bcc73) — 9/28/2023 @ 2:56 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 9:37 am
Any idiot could have foreseen that happening/ Any fool could have seen that it was happening. But somehow, nobody could say anything.
The problem goes back to not allowing drugs to be prescribed because people are addicted, and all sorts of requirements that often aren’t met for substitute narcotics. This is a mistake now hoary with (the people who initiated that policy are now probably alldead)age.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/28/2023 @ 3:07 pm163, Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 8:34 am
Probably? like the commercial says?
They weren’t taken completely off the market. But they were not to be prescribed if someone was addicted.
It would be nice if some candidate for president had the brains and the guts to say that..They are more missing brains than guts.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/28/2023 @ 3:11 pmTime123 (5c552e) — 9/28/2023 @ 6:59 am
Heard oin the radio, both from the successors to Rush Limbaugh (one of them) and from Bo Snerdly (moniker for James Goulden, who was a call screener for Rush Limbaugh) that Doug Burgum did well too.
Bo Snerdly mentioned he heard from conservatives in North Dakota that they considered him too moderate (paraphrase)
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/28/2023 @ 3:15 pmDonald Trump won’t attend the November debate either and says the RNC should cancel all the debates.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/28/2023 @ 3:17 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 10:49 pm
Startng with Nixon, we caused drug smugglers to switch from bulky marijuana to smaller cocaine, and now to small volume fentanyl.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/28/2023 @ 3:20 pmKevin M (ed969f) — 9/27/2023 @ 6:48 pm
But they zeroed out the mandate.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/28/2023 @ 3:23 pmI’m sure the numbers would have been quite lower had Trump shown up.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/28/2023 @ 3:27 pmWhy do the governments of central america run by drug cartels that reagan/bush/clinton installed to prevent more nicuraguas not be given orders to halt drug/migrants importation or the CIA will replace them with stooges who will? Same with mexico if we want too. (we don’t $$$) China is not the only country who buys are politicians which the supreme court allows.
asset (eb5f82) — 9/28/2023 @ 3:32 pmCentral America has a bunch of different governments.
El Salvador got rid of a lot of the gangs at the expense of civil liberties and careful judgement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvadoran_gang_crackdown
In Guatemala a presidential candidate who is against gangs is in the lead.
Meanwhile Ecuador is getting very bad.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 9/28/2023 @ 3:38 pmUnsurprising:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/28/2023 @ 3:43 pmBut they zeroed out the mandate.
No, the courts did that.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 3:56 pmI’m sure the numbers would have been quite lower had Trump shown up.
He did, or at least mini-me did.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 3:56 pm32 percent who watched the debate.
But the counted the opinion of who did best from the other 68%. It’s like taking “Hot or Not” to the Vatican.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/28/2023 @ 3:58 pmNot Mentioned At the Debate…….:
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/28/2023 @ 4:34 pmThe corrupt criminal traitor Trump was probably hoping that China would take January 6 as a sign of American weakness, do something aggressive, and give him an excuse to assume emergency powers.
When Milley told his Chinese counterpart, in a nice way, “Don’t even think for a moment that you can f*ck with us, we’ll whup your asses”, that put the scotch on the corrupt criminal traitor’s fantasies.
nk (bb1548) — 9/28/2023 @ 4:44 pm“I am your justice… I am your retribution.”
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/28/2023 @ 4:55 pmHe’s really saying that to his masters in the Kremlin. Payback for the fall of the Soviet Union.
nk (bb1548) — 9/28/2023 @ 5:22 pmhttps://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/4228529-newsom-signs-california-law-raising-fast-food-workers-minimum-wage-to-20-per-hour/
Weimar Germany here we come. Wall off California.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/28/2023 @ 6:41 pm@194 no mention of honduras I wonder why ? The movie salvador explains that place.
asset (760bfe) — 9/28/2023 @ 6:54 pmRonna and Rupert are making these twerps look like a bunch of clowns, while Trump is doing what he does best, rousing unquestioning believers.
And that leads to the real question. What difference does it make? Should any person who is elected by Trump voters be allowed within a mile of the White House?
Let’s go Brandon!
nk (bb1548) — 9/29/2023 @ 5:52 amFeinstein passed.
NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/29/2023 @ 6:26 am@207
Prayers for the family.
My hometown paper… The Post DisTrash… had this headline:
Dianne Feinstein, centrist Democrat who served as California senator since 1992, dies at 90
Absolute trash of a newspaper.
whembly (5f7596) — 9/29/2023 @ 7:57 am@204
You wanna increase inflation, that especially hurts the poor California?
Keep do you what you’re doing.
You’ll also see more kiosk and robots in fastfood industry.
whembly (5f7596) — 9/29/2023 @ 7:59 amYou’ll also see more kiosk and robots in fastfood industry.
I’m sure that the new fast food councils will ban such anti-labor practices, or at least require minimum staffing levels.
But the real takeaway is this: Fast food restaurants won’t be hiring entry-level or marginal workers at these wages. The actual minimum wage is ZERO, and a lot of folks previously employable at $8/hour are going to be SOL at $20/hour.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 8:21 amScene at McDonald’s…
Good news: Wages here are going up to $20/hour
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 8:22 amBad news: You’re all fired.
If you want other people to cook your food and serve it to you, pay for it! Or cook it yourself! Nobody has a right to easy living on the labor of others.
nk (bb1548) — 9/29/2023 @ 8:36 amAnd you can make your own clothes, and build your own houses, and go off and fight your own wars, too.
nk (bb1548) — 9/29/2023 @ 8:39 amThe actual minimum wage is ZERO,
That is a meaningless noise. Even Nazi slave labor digging von Braun’s rocket tunnels got one raw potato a day. If the worker is to be able to work, he needs a minimum amount of sustenance.
nk (bb1548) — 9/29/2023 @ 8:43 amdigging von Braun’s rocket tunnels *with their bare hands*
nk (bb1548) — 9/29/2023 @ 8:45 amNobody has a right to easy living on the labor of others.
Nobody has a right to be paid more than their labor is worth. Laws mandating wages may cause temporary distortions, but it’s not nice to fool the Invisible Hand.
Eventually the market will sort this out, either by selecting better employees, or by diminishing the market for the now-regulated service. The UAW found this out over the last 40 or so years, as UAW employment went from 1.5 million in 1979 to 150,000 today.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 9:01 amThe actual minimum wage is ZERO,
nk, the actual minimum wage is paid to those sitting at home with no job. Something that will happen to more than a few current fast-food workers, and HAS happened to others recently.
Look what happened to LA Airport hotel workers when the city council passed a special minimum wage: automated parking lots and vastly reduced maid service. Both things that have expanded throughout the industry.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 9:04 amAnd you can make your own clothes, and build your own houses, and go off and fight your own wars, too.
Apparently we can import workers to do most of that. Or import the clothes directly from places with lower wages. Ukrainians are fighting our current war for us, as much as we complain about the cost.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 9:06 amThere is no bigger distortion than rich jerkoffs accumulating wealth off the sweat and blood of the workers.
And we can talk about the American auto industry when the highest-paid executive in Detroit is paid no more than 60 times the wages of the assembly line worker like in Japan.
(And when American cars are not designed to rust out within six years but that’s a different subject.)
nk (bb1548) — 9/29/2023 @ 9:12 amno more than 60 times the wages of the assembly line worker like in Japan.
1) There are also perks, which can be a lot in Japan.
2) Many Japanese CEOs don’t really need the money with family wealth (e.g. Toyoda).
As far as assembly line workers in Detroit, maybe the pendulum has swung too far, but the 1980-era pay and work rules just could not go on. And they didn’t.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 4:02 pmNobody has a right to easy living on the labor of others.
A lawyer said this.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/29/2023 @ 4:04 pmA reason to dislike Tim Scott (“Mr Nice Guy”): If you donate to him, his campaign will text your from several numbers multiple times a day, with no opt-out offered. Eventually you just block the numbers, but it’s really not very cluefull. And of course you get put on all his (and everyone else’s) email lists.
Kevin M (ed969f) — 9/30/2023 @ 8:43 amThe canadian conservative party decides to emulate reagan in the 1980’s and institute free trade in canada at the behest of canada’s wealthy class. This worked out so well that nearly a million canadian jobs were lost. In 1993 election the voters voted the conservatives OUT! They went from 177 seat majority to 2 seats! In 2016 the white working class base had enough of milton friedman/reagan economic libertarian free trade and voted for the populist donald trump flushing down the toilet the donor class money to the 16 dwarfs again trying to buy the gop nomination for president. AS AOC says for both parties they got the money we got the votes!
asset (d8195b) — 10/2/2023 @ 12:00 amI think that General Milley got worried that the Chinese would think Trump would do something aggressive against China (he was contemplating something against Iran, but I don’t know China – this danger may have existed mostly in Milley’s mind and maybe somebody he talked to) and he contacted China to say nothing was going on. This Trump has now called treason.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/14/peril-woodward-costa-trump-milley-china
This must be what Trump was referring to as reason. Marco Rubio did.
Sammy Finkelman (c5132f) — 10/3/2023 @ 2:47 pm