Patterico's Pontifications

8/24/2023

Vivek Ramaswamy Is a Stupid Idiot

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:11 am



This is the guy whose closing statement said the U.S. Constitution (written in 1787) is what won us the American Revolution (begun in 1775):

The thing about him is: the audience of committed and enthusiastic GOP voters contained a large and vocal contingent of people who booed Chris Christie for criticizing Donald Trump, and cheered on amoral drivel like this:

There were cheers for good things, too, like Mike Pence doing his duty on January 6, 2021. But this electorate is generally lost. The populist cult fever has taken over a sizable enough contingent that the whole enterprise is a disaster at this point.

The fact that this stupid idiot will get a bounce for his stupid idiot performance says it all.

110 Responses to “Vivek Ramaswamy Is a Stupid Idiot”

  1. Seriously, what an idiot

    Patterico (7a1f85)

  2. This is the guy whose closing statement said the U.S. Constitution (written in 1787) is what won us the American Revolution (begun in 1775):

    I told my wife that this would become the biggest deal for some reason. I don’t trust this guy for a host of reasons and if he gets kicked to the curb for a “57 states” moment, so be it.

    I thought Haley was the most convinced of what she was saying and she came off as a real mature contender.

    But there was this: Nikki Haley pressed on why she would vote for Donald Trump if he’s convicted

    Stephanopolis really put the hammer on her until she confessed that Trump was better than Kamala Harris. Then Stephanopolis defended Biden’s cognitive abilities.

    Great interview.

    BuDuh (4e5f40)

  3. Remember when people wanted candidates to “look presidential”? Yeah, neither do I. Now, being a troll is what they want because THEY are all trolls.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  4. The other candidates need to simply ignore him. WHen he’s done speaking, they just shake their heads and move on to adult talk.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  5. As I said before the debate, the “highlights” reel isn’t what happened.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  6. So now we know that Donald Trump and Vivek Ramaswamy have no clue about the Constitution — that important document Presidents swear an oath to defend. Clearly, they won’t be able to defend the Constitution and probably don’t care if they can’t, since they don’t bother to know anything about it.

    DRJ (2046b4)

  7. I sort of liked Vivek for a bit. His performance in the debate completely changed that.

    Time123 (c49e34)

  8. Ramaswamy on January 6:

    When I briefly caught up with Ramaswamy in the spin room, I asked the candidate a question posed to several of his rivals during the debate—whether Mike Pence did the right thing on January 6, 2021…….Here’s his full, convoluted response after being asked a second time if Pence did the right thing on January 6:

    I think I would have done it very differently. I would have done very differently. So I think that there was a historic opportunity that was missed to settle a score in this country to say that we’re actually going to have a national compromise on this—single-day voting on Election Day as a federal holiday, which I think Congress should have acted in that window between November and January to say: paper ballots, government-issued ID. And if that’s the case, then we’re not going to complain about stolen elections. And if I were there, I would have declared on January 7th, saying now I’m going to win in a free and fair election. Unlike what we saw with big tech and others stealing the election last time around, fix the process. This time around, we get it right, and it was a missed opportunity to deliver national unity. That’s what I would have done, but that’s what I’m gonna be able to do as president is unite this country.

    Unlike Ramaswamy, every candidate who was asked about Pence’s actions on January 6 supported the former vice president.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  9. No surprise, Rip. He would have done what Pence did not do. He’s got his nose very far up Trump’s ass.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  10. Vivek’s comments last night weren’t just stupid, they were dangerously stupid. His clown-car views on Ukraine-Russia-China-Taiwan would only increase the chances of WW3.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  11. So now we know that Donald Trump and Vivek Ramaswamy have no clue about the Constitution

    Yet he wants to deny the vote to younger Americans who cannot pass the Citizenship test. I would love to see him take it. Matter of fact, I would like to see it as a requirement to be on the GOP debate stage.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  12. Yet he wants to deny the vote to younger Americans who cannot pass the Citizenship test.

    How Heinleinian:

    In Starship Troopers, Robert Heinlein describes a quasi-democratic political system, embedded in a militaristic government, in which veterans are the only people who are full citizens and, therefore, have the right to vote……. Veterans are the only people who have the right to vote in Heinlein’s society because, unlike juveniles in the 1950’s, by serving in the federal service, veterans have proven that they are capable of making mature decisions that put the good of the society before themselves.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  13. That summary isn’t accurate. The government was not “militaristic” — one could serve as a social worker and get the same results. As far as the story goes, it GOT militaristic due to getting into an existential war.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  14. Here’s a test that Vivek can use for those know-nothing sub-26 year olds.
    There’s no need to write a new one when there’s a perfectly good 1964 test from the Jim Crow era. So what if the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  15. #8

    So Ramaswamy supported an election do-over, using election law rules he prefers, in the midst of a COVID spike.

    Idiot.

    Appalled (c5ba13)

  16. Kevin, we are both “Heinlein’s Children,” I suspect. My take from Colonel DuBois in “Starship Troopers” is that the “veteran’s rule” was simply that it worked. Yes, showing some evidence of service to the state was necessary. That’s why I like civics requirements (though they will never ever happen). But the government set up in the novel was accidental in the aftermath of a global war.

    I really really really get exercised when people call it a “fascist” novel. “Fascist” is simply code for SOB.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  17. Patterico, there is something about VR that unsettles me. The real definition of wisdom, to me, is to be aware of what one does not know.

    Certitude is very dangerous.

    The problem I am having now is that so many media outlets have a narrative, and I getting less and less willing to accept their honesty.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  18. Am I alone who kinda sorta likes Chris Christie? Even though he has no chance, he’d be a decent President?

    whembly (5f7596)

  19. He’s the only candidate I would support, except he probably won’t make it to California’s primary.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  20. I like Christie but most Republicans appear to like Trump much more. The sustained booing suggests that he is a non-starter. I would vote for him or Haley, though Haley will have a better shot at becoming the Trump alternative. She is a very skilled politician. Christie is skilled too but he has removed all ambiguity about Trump…and is viewed as MSNBCish persona non grata.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  21. Haley strikes me as the candidate who might be able to navigate the GOP waters to become the nominee, if the base suddenly has a change of heart about Trump. Otherwise, she has no chance in 2024 and needs to keep her poweder dry for 2028. That explains her positioning. Can’t say I am thrilled. But I don’t know how an anti-Trump or neverTrump wins nomination.

    Appalled (c5ba13)

  22. if the base suddenly has a change of heart about Trump.

    LOL! Highly unlikely-that’s like asking the sun to rise in the west.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  23. ……..(Haley) has no chance in 2024 and needs to keep her poweder dry for 2028.

    By 2028 voters will have forgotten who she is.

    Rip Murdock (6347cf)

  24. Well Vivek Ramaswamy was born in about 1987, so it’s not easy for him to keep his chronology straight. Not like someone born 30 years earlier.

    Actually, this does show a character defect. Ramaswamy is speaking without making sure of his facts – je’s like CHAT GPT.

    Also he was born in 1985 since he turned 38 this year.

    Sammy Finkelman (27918e)

  25. If you lived in Quito, Ecuador, then the sun does technically rise in the west and set in the east. Perhaps Trump loses there?

    https://lovethenightsky.com/where-does-the-sun-rise/#:~:text=Earth's%20equator%20is%20the%20only,the%20spring%20and%20fall%20equinoxes.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  26. Two columnists changed from a favorable to an unfavorable opinion of Ramaswamy this year. One was Bret Stephens who met him e=several years ago when he was promoting a book. Another writes for the Wall Street Journal.

    Sammy Finkelman (27918e)

  27. in Quito, Ecuador, the sun rises exactly in the east.
    A presidential candidate who railed against gangs was assassinated there, but he probably would not have made the runoff. His substitute came in third. The drug people who most likely did that may, however, have been afraid of the precedent of Guatemala.

    Sammy Finkelman (27918e)

  28. #22 I accept the reality that Trump will be the 2024 nominee and sincerely hope that he is not. Meantime, I will keep looking for the Western sunrise.

    Uh, by the way: The local paper (ajc.com) has spoken. Former President Donald Trump has announced on his social media site, Truth Social, that he will be arrested at 7:30 p.m.

    “Arrest Time: 7:30 P.M.,” Trump posted Thursday afternoon, announcing his intent to leave for Atlanta to surrender on his Fulton County charges.

    He will be going through an utterly horrid part of ATL to get to the jail, so expect a posting on American carnage when he gets out.

    Appalled (c5ba13)

  29. If you lived in Quito, Ecuador, then the sun does technically rise in the west and set in the east. Perhaps Trump loses there?

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 8/24/2023 @ 12:04 pm

    He can try out his authoritarian tendencies there rather than here.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  30. > There were cheers for good things, too, like Mike Pence doing his duty on January 6, 2021. But this electorate is generally lost. The populist cult fever has taken over a sizable enough contingent that the whole enterprise is a disaster at this point.

    And there is a serious potential that we will no longer have a Republic within a decade because of it.

    aphrael (e8d4b2)

  31. By 2028 voters will have forgotten who she is.

    By 2028 Rip will have forgotten this comment.

    The GOP has a habit of running the also-ran next time. GHWB, Dole, McCain and Romney are recent examples. Not that it always works.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  32. so expect a posting on American carnage when he gets out.

    Assuming he doesn’t manage to get his bail revoked.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  33. By 2028 Rip will have forgotten this comment.

    I don’t think so. I archive what I post. Seriously, nobody in 2028 will remember any of the Lilliputians.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  34. in Quito, Ecuador, the sun rises exactly in the east.

    If you lived at the North Pole, the sun rises wherever it wants to.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  35. The GOP has a habit of running the also-ran next time. GHWB, Dole, McCain and Romney are recent examples. Not that it always works.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/24/2023 @ 12:54 pm

    Out of the 8+ also-rans in 2024, do you really expect any voter in 2028 would want to go back in time and nominate one of the losers?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  36. GHWB, Dole, and McCain were current elected politicians when they ran, and Romney was blessed with a group of weak opponents-Michelle Bachmann, Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, Newt Gingrich, and Herman Cain.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  37. Out of the 8+ also-rans in 2024, do you really expect any voter in 2028 would want to go back in time and nominate one of the losers?

    They want Trump again. He’s a loser, even a sore loser.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  38. Newt Gingrich wasn’t all that weak. And they picked Dole, so strength wasn’t an issue anyway.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  39. Newt Gingrich wasn’t all that weak. And they picked Dole, so strength wasn’t an issue anyway.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/24/2023 @ 1:13 pm

    Dole was nominated in 1996, while Gingrich ran in 2012, until he withdrew from the race during the primaries.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  40. And Trump will be 80 if the Republican habit of running the also-ran next time continues.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  41. Hey all. If you need a way to cure some late afternoon insomnia, we have you cavered here in the ATL:

    https://www.ajc.com/news/watch-live-outside-fulton-county-jail-ahead-of-donald-trumps-surrender/BBZRYYKGPRHZ5J2GFMVCKUWIUU/

    The local paper is moaning that Trump’s entourage might jam up traffic. It would serve him right to get held up on 285 and miss his prime time schedule. I find it odd he is landing at Hartsfield, rather than the more convenient executive airport. (Of corse, it is Charlie Brown airport, and Trump doesn’t ant to be associated with a famous comic strip loser)

    Appalled (c5ba13)

  42. Yet he wants to deny the vote to younger Americans who cannot pass the Citizenship test. I would love to see him take it. Matter of fact, I would like to see it as a requirement to be on the GOP debate stage.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/24/2023 @ 9:27 am

    So what? That’s one of his rare good ideas. I’d limit it to people who are net taxpayers because they have skin in the game.

    As Reagan used to say, “The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.”

    NJRob (a34cf9)

  43. Because of course only those with money deserve to be represented in deciding whether their children should be drafted and sent off to die for their country.

    It’s not a good idea, it’s an absolutely terrible idea premised on the notion that some people are so obviously superior to other people that only *they*, and not their inferiors, should be involved in deciding the course the country takes and the rules that apply to all of us.

    Inferior people just don’t deserve to participate in decision-making, right?

    aphrael (71d87c)

  44. From the other thread:

    The sad point was when the contingent was asked: if Trump was convicted, would they still support him as the nominee? Only Hutchinson’s and Christie’s hands stayed down.

    AJ_Liberty (3983d1) — 8/24/2023 @ 5:33 am

    Going into the debate I was tepidly pro Christie, the only candidate I’ve given money. But he was meh, so Nikki Haley, who IMO had the best non-troll night, won me over. That is, until she raised her hand. I’m Never Anyone Who Would Support Trump, much less anyone who would support Trump even if he’s convicted of undermining the constitutional transfer of power. That’s non-negotiable, so I guess I’m back back with Christie and/or Hutchinson, neither of whom, or even both together, I imagine will get out of single digits. Hurray!

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  45. If either Christie or Hutchinson miraculously gains enough traction to be legitimately competitive with Trump, I’ll hold my nose and register GOP for the primary. Barring that, I’m staying independent.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  46. And so the best is again the enemy of the good, resulting terrible. But at least you’re pure.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  47. So what? That’s one of his rare good ideas.

    He would not pass the citizenship test himself, and says he would rule by decree.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  48. It’s not a good idea, it’s an absolutely terrible idea premised on the notion that some people are so obviously superior to other people that only *they*, and not their inferiors, should be involved in deciding the course the country takes and the rules that apply to all of us.

    And, ironically, it is JUST that attitude by the educated classes that led to Donald Trump. But they just love it when some billionaire tech weenie says it this time around. Why? Because he won’t behave by the rules and that’s how their hero rolls.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  49. They love it because the people he thinks are inferior are the same people they think are inferior.

    aphrael (71d87c)

  50. I’m surprised that GOP polls show that Ramaswamy did well. In what universe? It looks completely like style over substance. His foreign policy ideas alone should have frightened the hell out of people. We don’t appear to value knowledge, expertise, or experience any more. The bigger and more outrageous the showman, the better. Maybe instead of any more debates, the next event should just be karaoke or maybe drop them in a jungle and see if they can survive.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  51. Earned citizenship is a central tenet of fascism.

    The cursus honorum on the other hand — earning your way up step by step in public office which may include military service — makes a lot of sense. It would have kept Weewee the Limp and his Slovene Muffin out of the White House.

    nk (e201f1)

  52. So, you wanna track DJT’s plane as he heads to GA.? Here you go.

    felipe (eea879)

  53. ……so Nikki Haley, who IMO had the best non-troll night, won me over. That is, until she raised her hand……

    Why would anyone be surprised given her literally back and forth positions regarding Trump. If only had Darling Nikki gone after Trump like she did after Ramaswamy, who will never ever be President anyway.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  54. Earned citizenship is a central tenet of fascism.

    Except for most fascist regimes. They are far more likely to make citizenship dependent on ethnic purity.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  55. I’d limit it to people who are net taxpayers because they have skin in the game.

    And property owners.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  56. Ramaswamy, who will never ever be President anyway.

    As Trump’s VP he’d have a shot.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  57. Ramaswamy, who will never ever be President anyway.

    As Trump’s VP he’d have a shot.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/24/2023 @ 3:10 pm

    It would again confirm TrumpWorld’s view that Trump makes lousy personnel choices.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  58. I’d limit it to people who are net taxpayers because they have skin in the game.

    Lots of people pay taxes, directly and indirectly, even if they pay no income tax. Renters pay property tax indirectly, everyone pays sales taxes and excise taxes (and both are regressive). Corporate taxes are also paid indirectly by their customers.

    So, good luck measuring that.

    There is also the case of people who pay huge sums some years and little other years. Do they have to pay on election years, or is there some other scheme you have in mind?

    IF it seems like I am mocking this nutty idea, it’s because I am.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  59. It would again confirm TrumpWorld’s view that Trump makes lousy personnel choices.

    He makes GREAT BEAUTIFUL choices. They just all betray him.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  60. And so the best is again the enemy of the good, resulting terrible. But at least you’re pure.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/24/2023 @ 2:17 pm

    Kevin, you cried foul when someone suggested your vote for a third party might help Trump. For reasons unknown, saying that was somehow an attempt to strong arm you, and nobody’s entitled to your vote. Remember? But when I reject a candidate who promises to vote for a convict who tried to overthrow the Constitution, I’m a purist.

    Don’t bother trying to square the contradiction. Instead, how about this? I’ve never called you any names. Maybe return the courtesy.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  61. I’d limit it to people who are net taxpayers because they have skin in the game.

    What would that make Mary Anne’s Baby* with his $1.17 billion (yes, billion) business loss tax write offs?

    (*See 1968 movie with Mia Farrow.)

    nk (a50373)

  62. That’s okay, guys. The way I see it, every vote for Trump in the GOP primary will bring out an extra vote for Biden in the general election.

    nk (a50373)

  63. I’d also point out, Kevin, that even with your alleged “perfect” out of the equation, your idea of the greater good and mine don’t necessarily align.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  64. Mary Anne’s Baby

    Did you mean Rosemary’s Baby?

    (If there was an intentional play on words there which I missed, I apologize for stepping on it. Either way, be aware that approvingly citing a Polanski film makes you either a pedophile, groomer and fugitive from justice in Florida, or a social climber in California.)

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  65. It is an intentional play on words on Rosemary’s Baby and I assure you that you did not “step on it”. I want people to understand the reference.

    nk (1bb46c)

  66. As for the other thing, “Chinatown” pops up a lot here, too.

    nk (1bb46c)

  67. Ramaswamy wants to raise the voting age to 25. I’ll go him one better: Raise the presidential qualifying age to 50.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  68. Rosemary seemed obvious. It was the Mary-Anne part I was obtuse about. I just googled the relevant lineage, so a day late and a dollar short I finally. get it.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  69. Raise the presidential qualifying age to 50.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/24/2023 @ 4:19 pm

    Cap the age at 70.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  70. Maybe return the courtesy.

    I called your argument names, not you. I will probably do it again. Your single-issue litmus test, applied to adult politicians who have exactly one party to co-exist in, is unworthy of your mostly-reasonable comments here.

    I get it that you want them all to join Christie and Cheney in the I Hate Trump room, but note that neither of those people are going to be in office any time soon. If the Convention nominates a multiply-convicted felon then everyone on that stage is going to have to live with it. So will we. I don’t think that Trump will be nominated — and Haley is clear that she does not think they should or will — so saying she’d support him is just a little white lie at this point. But a necessary one if she is going to meld a consensus.

    But really, what ARE you saying? This is a party that is dominated by Trump and his supporters. Even if he were to drop dead tomorrow, the party is still filled with these people. To do as Christie does — to toss them all into the outer darkness — is just a long-winded way of resigning from the GOP. And that’s not Haley’s game at all.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  71. Cap the age at 70.

    No. People are living longer and senescence occurs later and later. I’m almost 70 and I’m no stupider than I was at 50. Reagan took office 20 days shy of his 70th birthday and he was the most successful president in my lifetime, save maybe for Ike.

    No one is forcing anyone to vote for senile old farts. But youth and inexperience are an age-old problem, and 35 is too young for the modern world.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  72. But at least you’re pure.

    That’s name-calling. It’s explicitly about the person, not the argument.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  73. In the past, the audience is filled with partisans from each debaters camp. Fox did not do that here, but seems to instead allow Trump’s supporters to pack the hall. Going forward, they should go back to an invited crowd. There is no reason to let Trump participate by proxy.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  74. That’s name-calling. It’s explicitly about the person, not the argument.

    And if I said “at least your position is pure” it would mean something else? This is your idiosyncratic litmus test, on one side you have EVIL and the other GOOD. What word would you suggest?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  75. Even if (Trump) were to drop dead tomorrow, the party is still filled with these people. …….

    Which is why neither Haley (or any of other Lilliputians) will be remembered in 2028.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  76. #50–How about a limbo contest?

    Charlie Davis (72a87f)

  77. They love it because the people he thinks are inferior are the same people they think are inferior.

    aphrael (71d87c) — 8/24/2023 @ 2:45 pm

    Leftists are the ones that love to divide people by race, by sex, by sexual attraction, by ancestry, etc. The only people they publicly call inferior are white males, especially the straight ones. But you know thry always have room to bash those that dare stray off the leftist plantation.

    Carry on.

    NJRob (a34cf9)

  78. He would not pass the citizenship test himself, and says he would rule by decree.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/24/2023 @ 2:18 pm

    And? I didn’t say anything about that. I spoke about the idea that having skin in the game matters.

    We know how the left uses the power of government “giveaways” to control people

    NJRob (a34cf9)

  79. There is also the case of people who pay huge sums some years and little other years. Do they have to pay on election years, or is there some other scheme you have in mind?

    IF it seems like I am mocking this nutty idea, it’s because I am.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/24/2023 @ 3:15 pm

    Couldn’t be because retirees who don’t pay net taxes qualify, could it?

    NJRob (a34cf9)

  80. Sure we do. Social Security and Medicare are insurance payments, not welfare.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  81. Fulton County inmate no. 2313827; needless to say he doesn’t look too happy. No one ever looks their best in their booking photos, but Jenna Ellis and Sidney Powell have “crazy eyes.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  82. Do you count military pay against taxes?

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  83. No audience. It’s bad enough some candidates can’t or won’t observe the minimum decorum necessary for viewers to intelligently discern what distinguishes one candidate’s principles and policies from another’s. But now their buffoonery has thrown open the Overton Window of acceptable behavior so wide that their mindless followers feel entitled to multiply the disruptions to the point of rendering the whole debate useless. I suppose a few nuggets of substance snuck through, but mostly what I know today that I didn’t yesterday is that there’s this idiot Vivik who’s running for President on his ability and willingness to parrot Trump’s demagoguery and mimic his personality disorders. I suppose that information has some value, but hardly two hours of prime time television’s worth.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  84. And if I said “at least your position is pure” it would mean something else?

    Yes, Kevin, “at least your position is pure” is meaningfully different from “at least you’re pure.” Do you need it explained why “what you just said is stupid” would be different from “you’re stupid”?

    This is your idiosyncratic litmus test, on one side you have EVIL and the other GOOD. What word would you suggest?

    There you go again, mischaracterizing my position. I have no GOOD or EVIL litmus test. Failing my threshold test for candidacy doesn’t make someone evil, and passing it doesn’t make them good.

    I bet you have litmus tests too. Would you vote for any candidate who called himself Marxist? (I wouldn’t.) Do you think everyone who calls himself Marxist is evil? (I don’t.) Do you think everyone who runs against a self-described Marxist is good? (I don’t.)

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  85. “The sad point was when the contingent was asked: if Trump was convicted, would they still support him as the nominee? Only Hutchinson’s and Christie’s hands stayed down.”

    And if Trump is cleared? You’d see the same show of hands. Meaning, a conviction is irrelevant, as it should be.

    Ceding our presidential selection process to prosecutors and jury pools in friendly venues doesn’t sound appealing enough to change one’s answer. Why would we expect it to? Maybe we’re at a stage where it somehow makes sense to blame voters, but not voters who make it onto juries. There’s also the matter of exhausting appeals, which the question dodges. Perhaps the question is simply acknowledging the obvious intent of the indictments, as any appeals are a post-election thing and therefore who gives a damn. Indictments are merely a campaign strategy.

    lloyd (2d29a1)

  86. “Indictments are merely a campaign strategy.”

    He certainly seems dead to rights on the classified documents charges and there’s a clear distinction between his actions and what Pence, Biden, and Hillary did. It’s not like he didn’t have multiple opportunities to just hand over the documents.

    We will get plenty of opportunities to assess and re-assess the evidence as it gets presented and tested. I find it curious that so many Republicans are also so untroubled by J6, especially his lack of action for 3 hours. The party doesn’t want him to play a political price…or a legal price. It was just dandy statesmanship…so much so, let’s nominate him again!

    I’m always curious as to what it would actually take for people to get off the band waggon.

    AJ_Liberty (f8c5e5)

  87. If anything the Democrats would probably not have wanted Trump indicted so close to election because not indicting would have made it easier for Trump to cleanly win renomination. Trump is the only candidate they want to run against.

    Instead the indictments have turned him into a martyr, virtually guaranteeing his renomination.

    Rip Murdock (6347cf)

  88. I’m always curious as to what it would actually take for people to get off the band waggon.

    AJ_Liberty (f8c5e5) — 8/24/2023 @ 6:34 pm

    I could see him losing a few cultists by sincerely apologizing for something, and a lot more by expressing empathy for the people they hate. But we know neither of those things can happen in this timespace continuum. I’d guess nothing he’s plausibly capable of doing would move the needle. The reaction (non-reaction?) to all the indictments moves me closer and closer to suspecting the “shoot someone on fifth avenue” thing may be literally correct.

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  89. Hillary destroyed the evidence… woth the support and assistance of the FBI.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  90. As Reagan used to say, “The trouble with our Liberal friends is not that they’re ignorant; it’s just that they know so much that isn’t so.”

    It’s the same trouble with Ramaswamy, a dangerous ignorant idiot who has no business running for Leader of the Free World.

    Ramaswamy tells @OstapYarysh “some post-Zelenskyy warlord” will take power in Ukraine & will be armed to the teeth unless the USA quickly stops sending weapons to Ukraine.
    He compares it with the Mujehadeen & Al-Qaida in Afghanistan after the Soviets left.

    There’s that horseshoe-shaped political spectrum again.

    Paul Montagu (d52d7d)

  91. Yes, Kevin, “at least your position is pure” is meaningfully different from “at least you’re pure.” Do you need it explained why “what you just said is stupid” would be different from “you’re stupid”?

    OK, fine. I’m sorry.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  92. I bet you have litmus tests too. Would you vote for any candidate who called himself Marxist? (I wouldn’t.) Do you think everyone who calls himself Marxist is evil? (I don’t.) Do you think everyone who runs against a self-described Marxist is good? (I don’t.)

    I would vote for Christie despite his t3errible history on gun rights. Marxist? No, but Marxism IS evil. I don’t even like socialism much, although I would not favor a candidate who wanted to cancel the (socialist) SS program at this point. Not only did they take 12% of my earnings for 40 years (and I want something back) but it would be a hardship on most elderly now. Pretty sure anyone who paid into a pension would feel the same way about not getting it.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  93. Ramaswamy

    Trump-by-proxy

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  94. Does it bother anyone that a 38yo wants to rule by decree? That’s about the same age that Octavius was when he became Augustus.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  95. Ramaswamy

    Trump-by-proxy

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/24/2023 @ 10:41 pm

    It’s a good thing that TrumpWorld dislikes Ramaswamy as much as they dislike anyone not named Trump.

    It’s not only disturbing that a 38 yr old wants to rule by decree, it’s just as disturbing to know someone who went to Yale and Harvard thinks the President has the authority to do so.

    Rip Murdock (6347cf)

  96. Former arizona martyr kari lake says in a defamation lawsuit brought against her by republican county recorder. That she has a first amendment right to lie about people she doesn’t like or make stuff up about them!

    asset (e50b50)

  97. Ramaswamy is the next round of unfit demagogues that wish to gut the system so he can institute his Utopian vision. He’s an authoritarian who smiles and peddles populist BS. The GOP needs to reject this charlatan and get back to proven conservatism and leaders of character.

    AJ_Liberty (f8c5e5)

  98. # 97 — Let’s see if the current GOP primary electorate wants any part of that. I’m skeptical without evidence.

    Appalled (a75dcf)

  99. @80

    Sure we do. Social Security and Medicare are insurance payments, not welfare.

    Kevin M (ed969f) — 8/24/2023 @ 5:55 pm

    Not as an insurance though.

    The only reason SS and Medicare is propped up is the law mandating those spending programs, as it’s funded by the general fund. (well, technically it’s the treasury bonds…right?)

    But, I’m not making the case that voters should only be “net tax payers”.

    The problem with making voting contingent on “x” is that we’d have to first answer whether or not voting is a right or not. And, we can’t even agree on that (except the current minimum age).

    whembly (5f7596)

  100. @86

    “Indictments are merely a campaign strategy.”

    He certainly seems dead to rights on the classified documents charges and there’s a clear distinction between his actions and what Pence, Biden, and Hillary did. It’s not like he didn’t have multiple opportunities to just hand over the documents.

    We will get plenty of opportunities to assess and re-assess the evidence as it gets presented and tested. I find it curious that so many Republicans are also so untroubled by J6, especially his lack of action for 3 hours. The party doesn’t want him to play a political price…or a legal price. It was just dandy statesmanship…so much so, let’s nominate him again!

    I’m always curious as to what it would actually take for people to get off the band waggon.

    AJ_Liberty (f8c5e5) — 8/24/2023 @ 6:34 pm

    I’m not convinced they have him “dead to rights” even there, as there’s multitude of post-Presidency *stuff* that hasn’t really been tested in courts. I think, at most, he’s in jeopardy of the obstruction charges.

    Additionally, Pence/Hillary weren’t ever POTUS and Biden’s classified document snafu was during his Senate years, and in some ways I think is worst than Trump. At least Trump had an “argument” to make, (weak af imo). Biden doesn’t have any excuse. (and if we’re honest, neither Pence/Hillary has excuse either).

    whembly (5f7596)

  101. LOL!

    Rip Murdock (6347cf)

  102. > And so the best is again the enemy of the good, resulting terrible. But at least you’re pure.

    In my view, Kevin, willingness to vote for Trump per se disqualifies you from being trustworthy to hold *any* public office. The man is that big a threat to the Republic.

    aphrael (cb16ce)

  103. whembly (5f7596) — 8/25/2023 @ 7:56 am

    I think, at most, he’s in jeopardy of the obstruction charges.

    That’s where they’ve got him dead to rights.

    Maybe on retention of national defense information, but considering the circumstances, (he didn’t remove it from storage) and considering how many other people did it, they never would have prosecuted him for that – and many officials who were, shouldn’t have been.

    Sammy Finkelman (d8b7dc)

  104. Not as an insurance though.

    “Old Age, Survivors and Disability Insurance”

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  105. In my view, Kevin, willingness to vote for Trump per se disqualifies you from being trustworthy to hold *any* public office. The man is that big a threat to the Republic.

    Not one of them said they would vote for Trump.

    They just said IF he won the nomination, they’d “support” him, but 1) they don’t expect him to win the nomination, and 2) they had just signed such a pledge as a condition of being in the debate — a fact prefaced in the moderator’s question.

    Baier could have easily followed up with a pointed “did you lie?” to Christie and Hutchinson.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  106. GOP presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy is an ‘unaffiliated’ voter, records show

    Vivek Ramaswamy is one of the highest-profile candidates seeking the GOP presidential nomination, but he has not voted in a Republican primary recently enough to be affiliated with the party in his home state’s voting records.

    Ramaswamy, 38, is listed as an “unaffiliated” voter in Franklin County, Ohio, where he’s been registered to vote since November 2021, after he moved to Columbus.

    The biotech multimillionaire has described himself as being a “libertarian freestyler” in college.

    He’s said he voted for a Libertarian in the 2004 presidential election, but did not vote in 2008, 2012 or 2016, according to Reuters, and has contributed to both Republican and Democratic candidates. He brushed past a question about his sparse voting history during Wednesday’s GOP presidential debate.

    Ramaswamy said he went on to become a “hardcore” Trump supporter and voted for him in 2020.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  107. BTW, I get the impression that VR is a pot smoker and may have been high at the debate.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  108. The debate failed because the first two questions should have been:

    1. You have been consistently more than 30% or more behind President Trump in polling for the nomination, why should those Republican voters consider switching from Mr. Trump to you?

    2. Setting aside whether the 91 charges against Mr. Trump are provable beyond a reasonable doubt, do you consider the underlying conduct to be troubling enough that he should be disqualified from running or asked to step aside?

    I think that would have set a different and more serious tone for the remainder of the debate. Someone’s position on abortion or Ukraine is frankly less than relevant as long as Trump is so far ahead. And if they cannot make the case against Trump, then the predicate for the debate is destroyed — they shouldn’t be running.

    The financial bottom line of FNC is tied to Trumpism and the myriad spin memes that he produces. It should be figured that they would not press the Trump inquiry hard and were content with keeping the status quo. Their choice of starting the debate with an assessment of a country song lacked seriousness. They had no real plan to enforce time limits or talking over each other. The 30sec rebuttal was a perverse incentive. Hopefully the next debate is run better.

    AJ_Liberty (5f05c3)

  109. Here’s a in-depth takedown of Ramaswamy

    As one of the few people who have debated Ramaswamy in multiple public appearances and studied the reality of his business resume, I have repeatedly cleared the diversionary smoke he deploys by revealing the reality of his pump-and-dump business playbook. Now Ramaswamy seems to have retrofitted it for politics.

    I always knew that Ramaswamy would excel on the debate stage by running circles around his more experienced rivals who are more likely to be grounded by facts and dignity. Attention-seeking is core to the Ramaswamy playbook. He thrives on it–whether that attention is positive or negative….

    Earlier this year, after I exposed his shady business track record of brazen pump-and-dump schemes, his campaign staff bizarrely threatened me by email, over the phone, and in Twitter taunts, interspersed with provably false claims. Here’s what the facts show about Ramaswamy’s business record, as we earlier exposed, and which Ramaswamy inadvertently confirmed to us, revealing his talents as an illusionist.

    Ramaswamy’s tax records show that the first time he ever made big money was when he hyped up an Alzheimer’s drug candidate, Axovant, which had been discarded by other pharmaceutical companies. Axovant, which was 78% owned by Ramaswamy’s corporate holding company Roivant, blew up after failing FDA tests, with the stock crashing from $200 to 40 cents, fleecing thousands of mom-and-pop investors who bought into the hype. Ramaswamy himself profited handsomely (even if the Ramaswamy campaign took a while to acknowledge the truth).

    Ramaswamy spokesperson Tricia McLaughlin first told us that “the idea that Vivek made any money on [Axovant’s] failure is a total lie” before finally acknowledging that Ramaswamy did indeed cash out, claiming “[Ramaswamy] and other shareholders were forced to sell a tiny portion of their shares in 2015 to facilitate an outside investor entering Roivant.” The facts are that Ramaswamy’s own tax returns show he opportunely sold out of nearly $40 million of Roivant stock right as Axovant’s hype was peaking. Meanwhile, Roivant was raising $500 million driven largely by Axovant. As Ramaswamy was busy selling his own personal stake, Roivant gradually reduced and diluted its Axovant stake from 78% to just 25%.

    Kevin M (ed969f)

  110. And there is more, none of it good. VR may be a bigger crook than Donald Trump.

    Kevin M (ed969f)


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