GOP Warns No ‘Blank Check’ To Ukraine if Republicans Take House Majority
[guest post by Dana]
A few of Putin’s immediate goals in Ukraine are receiving applause and support:
Soon Ukraine will turn into the Syria of 2015. No water, no electricity, the whole country is in ruins
and
It’s now their main front of war – to make Ukraine freeze to death in winter if they can’t defeat it on battlefield.
This is in light of Russia wreaking havoc by having destroyed one-third of Ukraine’s power stations this past week. Keeping the chaos going as winter approaches is just another strategy employed by Putin. And about those strikes:
Ukraine accuses Russia of using Iran-made Shahed-136 ‘kamikaze drones’, which fly to their target and detonate. Iran denies supplying them and on Tuesday the Kremlin also denied using them.
However, two senior Iranian officials and two Iranian diplomats told Reuters that Tehran had promised to provide Russia with more drones as well as surface-to-surface missiles, a move sure to infuriate the United States and its allies.
Meanwhile, as Ukraine awaits a granting of their latest weapons wishlist from the U.S. and European nations, it’s simply not happening quickly enough:
NATO nations will eventually provide Ukraine with the most potent conventional weapons to help push back Russian troops, according to Kyiv’s ambassador to the alliance.
Natalia Galibarenko told Newsweek that discussions about longer-range weapons, fighter jets, and main battle tanks are ongoing with NATO members.
NATO nations not sending jets or main battle tanks—out of fear of provoking Russia—has been a particular frustration for Kyiv. But Galibarenko is optimistic.
“We are not there yet, unfortunately,” Galibarenko said on fighters and tanks. “The allies know that we are very interested in getting aircraft and tanks, but there was no definite decision.”
The fear of provoking Putin is a vexing one, given that it is Putin who instigated the brutal war of aggression in Ukraine. Kasparov sounds the warning of such thinking:
I recently completed a barnstorming trip across Europe, with professional and political engagements from Helsinki and Stockholm to Berlin and London. My visits in Germany were most critical, as the European giant is still loath to rise to the challenge despite strong popular support for Ukraine. Chancellor Olaf Scholz still dreams of a return to the pre-Feb. 24 world, with cheap Russian natural gas and an amoral separation of business and politics.
The sooner Scholz and the rest wake up from these fantasies, the better. The only way to achieve a lasting peace in Europe is for Ukraine to win in a comprehensive defeat of Russian imperialism and Putin’s gangster mafia. That was my message to German politicians, that there is no time to lose and no reason to delay.
Meanwhile, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy has signaled that aid to Ukraine from the U.S. may prove more difficult if Republicans take the House majority. This would be a significant change of action, given that there has been bipartisan support for the authorization of assistance to Ukraine since the war began:
“I think people are gonna be sitting in a recession and they’re not going to write a blank check to Ukraine. They just won’t do it. … It’s not a free blank check. And then there’s the things [the Biden administration] is not doing domestically. Not doing the border and people begin to weigh that. Ukraine is important, but at the same time it can’t be the only thing they do and it can’t be a blank check.”
What a far cry from the early-day hawkishness of Republicans. Kevin McCarthy was on record, saying:
“There is a bipartisan movement right here … Provide them the planes. Provide them the armament to fight a war that they did not create,” McCarthy said after the address, noting that the planes, Soviet-era MiG jets, would give the Ukrainians the resources they need to create a no fly zone.
The only way for Ukraine to live as a free Ukraine is to drive out Russian troops and reclaim its territories, including annexed ones. For a solid defeat of Putin, Ukraine will need our continued assistance, as well as that from European nations. I’m reminded of this:
In order to bring the prevailing cycle of Russian imperial aggression to an end, Putin’s invasion of Ukraine must result in unambiguous defeat. A Ukrainian victory would send shock waves through Russian society and force Russians to engage in a long overdue exploration of the country’s imperial identity. If defeat is painful enough, it could spark fundamental changes within Russia and lead to the kind of breakthrough that the false dawn of 1991 failed to achieve. Anything less will merely serve as a temporary pause before the next Russian invasion.
Also, a painful and humiliating defeat of Putin would send a signal to other brutes and dictators and their oppressed citizenry that they are not invincible. Not by a long shot.
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (1225fc) — 10/18/2022 @ 1:18 pmspanish civil war all over again when countries like america, france england refusing to help fight the fascists while germany and italy helped franco.
asset (d35f4c) — 10/18/2022 @ 1:24 pmDana, I think you mean the GOP is warning about a blank check if the Democrats retain the majority.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/18/2022 @ 1:39 pmUgh, thanks norcal. I corrected the title of post “GOP Warns No Blank Check To Ukraine If Republicans Take House Majority”.
Dana (1225fc) — 10/18/2022 @ 1:47 pmBreaking-
Igor Danchenko Found Not Guilty
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/18/2022 @ 2:00 pmMcCarthy is all over the map, depending on which way the wind is blowing. He and Ted Cruz know better, but prefer being in power to enacting good policy.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/18/2022 @ 2:00 pmI think the GOP should be sent to Ukraine to monitor the spending.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/18/2022 @ 2:00 pmVlad Putin say “spasibo” to McCarthy, for taking orders from Trump like a good supplicant.
Paul Montagu (753b42) — 10/18/2022 @ 2:03 pmSave Ukraine. Make Republicans less scared of the wrath of Don…oh forget it. Even Tucker scares this lot.
Appalled (634d36) — 10/18/2022 @ 2:11 pmIt’s really amazing how desperate the Trump wing is to purge the party of the former base. Purity of Essence! And a 20% market share. I wonder what the next center-right party will be called.
Kevin M (f9f2ee) — 10/18/2022 @ 2:14 pmspanish civil war all over again when countries like america, france england refusing to help fight the fascists while germany and italy helped franco.
I am pretty sure we’re still helping Ukraine, and are nowhere near the Spanish Civil War situation. Unless, of course, you think it’s Ukraine who are the fascists.
Kevin M (f9f2ee) — 10/18/2022 @ 2:17 pmNot everything goes in the same old boxes. This is far closer to helping South Vietnam (or South Korea) against the communists than it is to Franco. Or Mosaddegh. Or Castro. Which pretty much runs through your litany.
Kevin M (f9f2ee) — 10/18/2022 @ 2:21 pmNATO should provide Ukraine the means to turn off power for Russians. Even if it’s just McCain’s idea of aluminum chaff dropped on the power stations.
Kevin M (f9f2ee) — 10/18/2022 @ 2:23 pm@13. NATO should provide Ukraine the means to turn off power for Russians.
Pfft. NATO is a defense alliance for its member states and such an overtly aggressive act would clearly be a move that plays right into Putin’s hands by reaffirming his long time rhetoric to the Russian people that NATO is an offensive organization– thus escalateing, rather than de-escalate immediate tensions– and raise the stakes regarding his steadfast defense of Mother Russia.
“Are you prepared for war?” – Nikita Khrushchev [Howard Da Silva] ‘The Missiles Of October’ ABC TV, 1974
DCSCA (7bd329) — 10/18/2022 @ 2:57 pmThe only way to achieve a lasting peace in Europe is for Ukraine to win in a comprehensive defeat of Russian imperialism and Putin’s gangster mafia. That was my message to German politicians, that there is no time to lose and no reason to delay.
MEMO to ex-pat-kommie Kasparov.
Gangster Mafia?? You mean Puitie-pie is a… Capone?? LOL
Chess players are opportunists who can play the game from the white or the black. K’s commie days were Reagan times and Big Red was on the other side. Had the pieces moved a different way, K’d still be in Rooskieland– and remember, it was Yeltsin who brought Putin in. A Russian grudge match is K’s personal issue, not for the people of the United States to finance; Iraqi expats pushed a similar ploy – and Americas into war, back in the 90s. So camo up, Kasparrov. Put you butt and money where your mouth is; when YOU leave the cushy safety of your NYC hovel, pledge YOUR own life, YOUR own fortune [estimated to be over $6.5 million in 2022 BTW] and YOUR sacred honor (sound familiar???) and go full ‘Rick Blaine’ for all the world and the twitterverse to see, get back to us. Lead by example. But then, you probably drive a Renault, too —
“I blow with the wind, and the prevailing wind happens to be from Vichy.” – Captain Renault [Claude Rains] ‘Casablanca’ 1942
DCSCA (7bd329) — 10/18/2022 @ 3:16 pm@10. ‘It’s really amazing how desperate the Goldwater wing is to purge the party of the former base.’
FIFY.
Welcome to 1964.
DCSCA (7bd329) — 10/18/2022 @ 3:24 pmGive Ukraine 2 dozen Pershing IRBM’s each one capable of destroying one large Russian City. Have Uzbekistani seperatists blow up the trans siberian railroad-highway-pipeline complex in the most remote place with surplus 2500 kg USSR Bombs.
They would collapse within weeks.
EPWJ (650a62) — 10/18/2022 @ 3:29 pmspanish civil war all over again when countries like america, france england refusing to help fight the fascists while germany and italy helped franco.
False analogy; this is not a post WW1 era w/debt and death riddled nations struggling through the tendrils of a Great Depression, when nations like France, England America, etc., were left reeling for years in the wake of the devastating carnage left from that bloody conflict– which hollowed out whole generations and destroyed commerce and infrastructure.
DCSCA (7bd329) — 10/18/2022 @ 3:31 pm@17. “Give” Ukraine… nothing.
It is NOT an American problem.
It’s M-5:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYnyKceUe74
DCSCA (7bd329) — 10/18/2022 @ 3:34 pmNo water, no electricity, the whole country is in ruins.
Sounds more like Gilligan’s Island.
Who do you think Bugs and Al would fight over: Ginger– or Mary Ann?
DCSCA (7bd329) — 10/18/2022 @ 3:43 pmThat is no longer an option. If NATO (read the US) had not withdrawn the missiles (as well as the Lance tactical surface-to-surface missile) from Western Europe in the 1980s, Europe would not be susceptible to nuclear blackmail by the Russians in the 2020s. The result is that Russia has thousands of tactical nuclear warheads and NATO (under US control) has (at most) a couple of hundred nuclear gravity bombs.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/18/2022 @ 4:22 pmI think McCarthy will continue to be stand-up when it comes to Ukraine. I think that what he’s doing now is countering the pffters peddling Putinganda to his base. It’s already a given that we are not writing a blank check to Ukraine.
nk (1180d2) — 10/18/2022 @ 4:30 pm@21. ????? The Russia of the 2020’s is not the Soviet Union of the 1980’s anymore than the Japan and Germany of the 2020’s are the Japan and Germany of 1941– seems you missed the Reagan-Gorby Show. Maggie and the Pope guest starred. It was on all the networks- in color!
DCSCA (7bd329) — 10/18/2022 @ 4:33 pm@22. It’s already a given that we are not writing a blank check to Ukraine.
Except it’s not: only a month ago, the cone-licking-hair-sniffer-in-chief spit this out to the world:
Biden stated that the United States would continue to provide financial assistance for Ukraine “as long it takes.” – Squinty McStumblebum, ’60 Minutes’ CBS News, 9/19/22
https://conservativesdaily.com/on-60-minutes-biden
DCSCA (7bd329) — 10/18/2022 @ 4:40 pmWelcome to 1964.
Fat lot of good it did. They elected Nixon in 1968.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/18/2022 @ 4:40 pm“Are you prepared for war?” – Nikita Khrushchev [Howard Da Silva] ‘The Missiles Of October’ ABC TV, 1974
“Are you?”
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/18/2022 @ 4:41 pm— the guys with all the missiles
@25. And your homework for tonight, what did Bill Buckley say?
DCSCA (7bd329) — 10/18/2022 @ 4:41 pmKhrushchev was talking to his Politburo in that scene.
nk (1180d2) — 10/18/2022 @ 4:53 pm@28. And as is the tale of history goes, when the world de-escalated from the brink of destruction- it was the Russians took care of the Russian – on their own timetable.
‘And the world lived happily ever after.’
DCSCA (7bd329) — 10/18/2022 @ 5:03 pmSo I’ve been asking everybody the question “When we nuke Russia, do we let it sit for an additional minute to complete cooking?”, and the consensus is, “No. We nuke it again to crisp it.”
nk (1180d2) — 10/18/2022 @ 5:11 pm“If defeat is painful enough, it could spark fundamental changes within Russia and lead to the kind of breakthrough that the false dawn of 1991 failed to achieve.”
who buys this horsecrap?
JF (0f5eea) — 10/18/2022 @ 7:01 pm@25. And your homework for tonight, what did Bill Buckley say?
“I lost to Lindsay”?
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/18/2022 @ 7:03 pmWell, JF, how about, “If defeat is painful enough it will constrain the Russkebabs to murdering, raping, and robbing each other?”
nk (1180d2) — 10/18/2022 @ 7:12 pmI don’t believe that anything will make Russia a better place, either. The best we can expect from this is that it will make Ukraine a tougher and stronger place, a Sparta or an Israel, that the gangsters next door will think twice about trying to victimize again.
nk (1180d2) — 10/18/2022 @ 7:50 pmScenario: Ukrainians freezing this winder, with all the power plants bombed out. Russia demands they surrender. Western countries bring in fuel and other aid. Russia attacks the aid workers.
The situation is untenable.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/18/2022 @ 9:55 pm@32. LOLOLOL His rule of thumb- before the era of ‘litmus tests’- essentially it was ‘Nixon’s the one; nominated to run/won- ‘what’s all the fuss.’ There’s a video clip of it someplace.
DCSCA (e643b0) — 10/18/2022 @ 10:37 pm@10 the former base became former with nixon/reagan’s southern strategy by 1988 base was ignorant southern white trash former dixiecrats. The donor class was able to buy the presidential nomination until trump in 2016.
asset (a6d07a) — 10/19/2022 @ 12:11 amMccarthy should ask his girl friend frank luntz how saying funding the government debt limit to make drastic cuts in social security and medicare will get the voters to vote republican. Even trump knew better then touch social security and medicare. Dubya didn’t and paid the price in 2006.
asset (a6d07a) — 10/19/2022 @ 12:49 amBill Buckley’s run for New York City mayor is most famous now for this famous quip:
(Ronald Reagan later repeated the quip when running for president in 1980.)
Jim Miller (85fd03) — 10/19/2022 @ 6:39 amBuckley always said that his preference is for the most conservative candidate in a two man race. I’m not sure if he ever faced a Bircher with a chance of winning and he did not survive to see Trump’s campaign — so we don’t know what he would have done really.
Trump crosses some boundaries — not just in divisive rhetoric, but in using the government to punish selct individuals and groups. I don’t know if Buckley would have found that a bridge too far.
Appalled (03f53c) — 10/19/2022 @ 8:05 amI don’t see how any of this is controversial.
What does “blank check” mean to you?
I don’t mind sending Ukraine help, but just don’t think dumping money into their laps is the right way to go about it.
If GOP successfully funds additional resources for Ukraine AND mandates an IG to ensure compliance (something Democrats refused)… that’s a good thing, and isn’t a “blank check”.
whembly (b770f8) — 10/19/2022 @ 8:42 amUS responds by sending MGM-140 ATACMS tactical missile to Ukraine, thereby bringing large areas of Russia proper into artillery range.
Peremoha Ukrayina!
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/19/2022 @ 10:53 amRussia needs to appear to engage NATO for domestic reasons, without actually engaging NATO. I am not sure how this happens.
Appalled (03f53c) — 10/19/2022 @ 11:13 amRussia has believed for a long time that they are engaging NATO.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/19/2022 @ 11:15 amRussia has engaged NATO for a long time before the Ukrainian-Russia War:
Source
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/19/2022 @ 11:30 am@43. Russia needs to appear to engage NATO for domestic reasons, without actually engaging NATO. I am not sure how this happens.
Let’s see… Russians built a wall through Berlin; Russians restrict energy supplies and aviation/trade access… my own neighbor was sent on an emergency deployment to Poland only a few weeks ago in response to Russian/NATO troop movements; there’s plenty of saber rattling going on. Ol’Vlad barks ‘nuke’ and NATO’s sphincter tightens, while their media pees their Depends as incontinent Squinty poops in his. Plenty of public ‘engaging NATO’ going on– and likely more you don’t see from the dark arts crowd– or you don’t recognize ‘engaging’ when it’s occurring in front of you. And taxpayers will foot the bill to pay for all of this wasteful gaming.
DCSCA (4a805b) — 10/19/2022 @ 11:31 amOh you people…let me restate this.
Russia wants to appear domestically that they are not really at war with Ukraine – they are at war with NATO. But they don’t want to be at war with NATO.
Appalled (03f53c) — 10/19/2022 @ 12:10 pmI don’t think this can possibly affect things till about June,2023. Both parties are still completely in agreement about defending Taiwan, though.
Russia has now declared that the nuclear power plant is now owned by a Russian company and it wants employees (about 1/3 have no quit) to switch empployers and ave them adeadline
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/19/2022 @ 12:15 pm@47. You fail to see how Russia has viewed NATO since its inception. Though defined by the West as a defensive alliance, NATO is seen as a potentialy offensive threat to a Russia ringed by ‘threats’ from vittually all points of the compass- at sea, on the European continents itself– from China back in the day and from over the poles — and been presented as such to the Russian people long before Putin; as exampled by the likes of the Berlin crisis and especially the Jupiter missiles in Turkey which were a hot button issue in the Cuban Missile crisis– crisis precipitated by the Russian attempt to give the U.S. a taste of that very NATO medicine by installing missiles in Cuba.
___________
60 years ago today, October 19, 1962; the Cuban Missile Crisis: tick-tock, tick-tock…
President Kennedy leaves for a scheduled campaign trip to Ohio and Illinois. In Washington, his advisers continue the debate over the necessary and appropriate course of action. The EXCOMM meets… Bomb? Invade? Blockade? Quarantine? Trade missiles in Turkey for missiles in Cuba???
Options discussed:
-Do nothing: American vulnerability to Soviet missiles was not new.
-Diplomacy: Use diplomatic pressure to get the Soviet Union to remove the missiles.
-Secret approach: Offer Castro the choice of splitting with the Soviets or being invaded.
-Invasion: Full-force invasion of Cuba and overthrow of Castro.
-Air strike: Use the US Air Force to attack all known missile sites.
-Blockade: Use the US Navy to block any missiles from arriving in Cuba
The Joint Chiefs of Staff unanimously agreed that a full-scale attack and invasion was the only solution. They believed that the Soviets would not attempt to stop the US from conquering Cuba. Kennedy was skeptical:
“They, no more than we, can let these things go by without doing something. They can’t, after all their statements, permit us to take out their missiles, kill a lot of Russians, and then do nothing. If they don’t take action in Cuba, they certainly will in Berlin.”
On October 19, the EXCOMM formed separate working groups to examine the air strike and blockade options, and by the afternoon most support in the EXCOMM shifted to blockade. Reservations about the plan continued to be voiced as late as October 21, the paramount concern being that once the blockade was put into effect, the Soviets would rush to complete some of the missiles. Consequently, the US could find itself bombing operational missiles if the blockade did not force Khrushchev to remove the missiles already on the island.
tick-tock… tick-tock…
https://microsites.jfklibrary.org/cmc/oct19/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis
DCSCA (5496e7) — 10/19/2022 @ 12:46 pmBut the short time frame to decide what to do if they were fired was. Of course, they got used to that later. But the Soviet Union also got used to fearing escalation.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/19/2022 @ 1:09 pm#47
If they hadn’t invaded Ukraine with the confidence that NATO would do nothing, I’d take that more seriously DCSCA.
Appalled (8b9dff) — 10/19/2022 @ 1:15 pmI think McCarthy will continue to be stand-up when it comes to Ukraine. I think that what he’s doing now is countering the pffters peddling Putinganda to his base. It’s already a given that we are not writing a blank check to Ukraine.
nk (1180d2) — 10/18/2022 @ 4:30 pm
This is an excellent point, nk, and tempers my initial reaction to McCarthy’s statement.
It relates to a larger matter–how I vote this election. I could take the purist position, and oppose anybody who has said anything that could be construed as MAGA-supportive, or I can consider that people who want to win elections have a to build a coalition larger than the opponent’s.
How does one do that? By realizing that different people have different emphases and motivations, and therefore making one’s appeal as broad as possible. And yes, that includes MAGA folks. So, help them feel like you are at least in partial agreement with them.
Look, all politicians shade and twist and lie and slant. They often don’t follow through on the things they say. If they spout some MAGA stuff, it might just be a way to get the votes of rubes, whose votes count just as much as the votes of more enlightened people. It doesn’t mean they’re going to mount another January 6th event.
As a voter, I have to read the overall room, and weigh the potential harms of both parties. The national Democratic Party leaders don’t seem too concerned about the danger of Trumpy candidates. Moreover, Democrats from Stacey Abrams to Hillary Clinton have said election-denying things, so they also fail the purity test.
I’ve come to realize that both parties try to motivate people by painting a dire picture of what will happen if the other side is elected. Enhancing election security is “Jim Crow”. Allowing some leeway on abortion amounts to murder, etc. I’m having none of it.
So, I’m going to hedge my bets. I will vote for the Democratic candidate for Nevada Secretary of State as an insurance policy against election fraud claims, but vote Republican in House and Senate races. It is important that Biden (or, more accurately, the people around him) has some pushback for the next two years.
I’m still upset about Biden’s fascistic move to wipe away student loans, his out of control spending (yes, Trump too–both are wrong), pulling out of Afghanistan (yes, Trump too–both are wrong), his failure to foster domestic oil production, his scapegoating gas station owners and the Saudis, his use of the strategic petroleum reserve for political purposes on a scale larger than any former President, his Inflation Reduction Act (which does nothing of the sort), his attempt to nationalize abortion policy–when it should be left to the states, and his lax policies on immigration enforcement.
norcal (a1f318) — 10/19/2022 @ 2:35 pmwilliam f buckley was a traditional conservative. People loathed conservatism see goldwater 1964. Only when tricky dick nixon and later reagan welcomed populist ignorant southern white trash dixiecrats into the party that rethugliKKKans began winning elections. GOP is now populist/social conservative party as those economic libertarian free trade conservatives will find out the hard way! Trump ran on not touching social security and medicare. Mccarthy says he will cut both in buckley traditional conservatism we will see how well that goes over.
asset (0f041a) — 10/19/2022 @ 2:39 pmAs long as it takes.”
—- Democrats… caretakers of Teh Ukraine Moneytree.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/19/2022 @ 3:25 pm@51. If they hadn’t invaded Ukraine with the confidence that NATO would do nothing, I’d take that more seriously DCSCA.
You make no sense w/that assertion. NATO is a defensive alliance. a)Ukraine is not a member of NATO; b) as such, a NATO member was NOT invaded– as Article 5 would kick in triggering an ‘appropriate response’ from the NATO alliance. c) NATO’s immediate response has been to rattle swords, redeploy military assets within NATO member nation states [at great cost BTW] and heightened alert status [as my own neighbor experienced w/his emergency deployment to Poland a few weeks ago.] The U.S. SoD Austin reaffirmed defending ‘every inch of NATO soil’ just a few days ago and independent of NATO, the U.S. has maintained a now finally questioned ‘blank check’ policy of financing the corrupt Ukraine regime chiefly– from the United States Treasury along w/ munitions and civil ‘aid.’
DCSCA (61914e) — 10/19/2022 @ 3:40 pm@51. Postscript. Ignorance of how Russia perceives other nations around it– from their viewpoint– within their own borders– is disturbing when exhibited for foreigners or young, military types full of piss-and-vinegar. Their perception of a hostile ‘encirclement’ is very real to them and one long held – certainly before Putin’s time– and evidenced by simply reading a map and some history. The Nazis invaded their land and were repelled with venomous retribution – as 1945 Berliners can attest- and at great cost; the war memorial to Russia’s 25 million WW2 war dead by the Kremlin wall is a hallowed and monument. They perceive ‘threats’ from all directions- even from over the poles; observed American spyplanes in their skies back in the Cold War days [and finally shot Gary Powers down w/Ike trying to deny the overflight in an embarrassing international incident.] More recently, they shot down airliner KAL 007 fueled by the same suspicions and insecurities. Whether you like it or not, Russians have a long history of being paranoid about such intrusions and any wise policy decisions by the West take that into account- particular w/ modern nuclear arsenals in the mix. My own personal experience reaffirmed this POV in discussions w/man-on-the-street-Russians back in the day when in Moscow. Within minutes they’d bring up U.S. troops invading Russia back in 1918:
The Day That The USA Invaded Russia And Fought The Red Army
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/world-war-i/the-day-that-the-usa-invaded-russia-and-fought-with-the-red-army-x.html?edg-c=1
Russia has a long history– and Russians, very long memories. They’re suspicious of everybody and everything. Do some homework, Appalled. It’s wise to know the players in the game when calling play-by-play on the field.
DCSCA (61914e) — 10/19/2022 @ 4:12 pmPutin apologists most people in russia oppose the war in ukraine why don’t you? Did you oppose lend lease to britian in world war II? Did you want hitler to win?
asset (179e19) — 10/19/2022 @ 4:26 pm@57. You make no sense. The corrupt Ukraine of 2022 is not 1939 Britain. Z is not Churchill, he;’s Bugs Moran battling Al Capone. The Corrupt Ukraine and Corrupt Russian gang war is NOT an America problem; don’t give a damn about it. Do care about storm ravaged Florida, about American infrastructure crumbling and an open southern border letting disease riddled illegals and tons of drugs pour into the U.S. The first casualty in war is truth as it is but ‘most people’ – Russian, American or your neighbor carting trunk out of his house with his wife missing for a week, would tell you to mind your own business. this is a Russian problem and they will handle it– in time– accordingly– just as they handled Khrushchev after the humiliation of the Cuban Missile Crisis. But in the immediate, this gang war is NOT a U.S. problem for meddlesome Americans to play buttinski..
This is not 1939 WW2 times either; corrupt Ukraine is not the Chamberlain/Churchill Britain of that period. And this is certainly not the era with struggling nations emerging from the depths of the Great Depression with echoes and memories of the debt, destruction and devastation and bloody carnage of World War 1, which hollowed out whole generations of the participating nations.
Gallup Vault: U.S. Opinion and the Start of World War II
Americans were specifically asked if the U.S. should declare war on Germany in support of England, France and Poland and should deploy forces to assist those countries. Americans were strongly opposed, with 90% rejecting the idea and 8% in favor.
https://news.gallup.com/vault/265865/gallup-vault-opinion-start-world-war.aspx
When Russia bombs Pearl Harbor, get back to us.
DCSCA (61914e) — 10/19/2022 @ 5:01 pmPutin apologists most people in russia oppose the war in ukraine why don’t you?
So you would leave a comment for him, asset.
nk (8d0f7b) — 10/19/2022 @ 5:11 pm@59. ???? Projecting again, nk. Sad.
DCSCA (61914e) — 10/19/2022 @ 5:14 pmSo I’ve been asking everybody the question “When we nuke Russia, do we let it sit for an additional minute to complete cooking?”, and the consensus is, “No. We nuke it again to crisp it.”
Pffft. Ding-dong: Avon calling.
DCSCA (61914e) — 10/19/2022 @ 5:17 pmTypo: the war memorial to Russia’s 25 million WW2 war dead by the Kremlin wall is a hallowed and sacred monument.
DCSCA (61914e) — 10/19/2022 @ 5:42 pmDCSCA:
This isn’t Chicago 1929. Much to Putins regret, it isn’t 2014 either. Everything you write has the implicit message that the Ukrainians should just lie down and take it and if they don’t, we should make them.
You should do some of your own homework on Ukraine and stop watching Tucker.
Appalled (55c9cd) — 10/19/2022 @ 6:09 pm@63. ROFLMAOLPIP Except it is- as the buttinski, ex-pat–grudge-carrying-kommie Kasparov konfirmed and komplained as noted in this very post:
‘The only way to achieve a lasting peace in Europe is for Ukraine to win in a comprehensive defeat of Russian imperialism and Putin’s gangster mafia. That was my message to German politicians, that there is no time to lose and no reason to delay.’ – Kasparov
You’ve been schooled plenty on corrupt Ukraine– but balk at doing your homework–and just don’t like the face of supporting corruption staring back at you while picking your pockets at the same time. It’s Moran vs., Capone. And thankfully, it ain’t Chicago 1929 but 2022, which has its own home grown gang wars to deal with. Get it though you head: don’t give a damn about corrupt Ukraine or corrupt Russia; it’s NOT AN AMERICAN PROBLEM, no matter how hard you try to make it one. Their gang fight; their turf war- but if you feel so strongly about it, camo up, go full ‘Rick Blaine’ and join their fight– on your dime.
______
Tucka who? ROFLMAO Did you mail some green pieces of paper with pictures of presidents on them to Soupy Sales like he told you to do on the TeeVee?
Do. Your. Homework.
“Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that’s even remotely true.”- Homer Simpson
DCSCA (a8518a) — 10/19/2022 @ 6:58 pmd*CKS CAN STAT CRAZY ARGUMENTS
Finally figured it out
EPWJ (650a62) — 10/19/2022 @ 8:15 pm@65. ROFLMAOPIP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btPfmWrS6AY&t=1s
DCSCA (a8518a) — 10/19/2022 @ 8:28 pmMGM-140 ATACMS tactical missile
You’d want a 500km version.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/19/2022 @ 9:19 pmMany generals try to fight a war using the last war’s winning tactics. DCSCA wants to pretend they will be fought with 60yo mistakes. Only DCSCA has learned from them.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/19/2022 @ 9:21 pm-Do nothing: American vulnerability to Soviet missiles was not new.
The US had a 5-to-1 working advantage in missiles in 1962 and both sides knew it. The Cuban missiles were a Soviet attempt to even things up, asymmetrically. We didn’t want them to do that, and they didn’t.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/19/2022 @ 9:24 pmOnly when tricky dick nixon and later reagan welcomed populist ignorant southern white trash dixiecrats into the party that rethugliKKKans began winning elections.
There’s a lot of BS to parse here.
1. Nixon was no conservative. He implemented LBJ’s Great Society. He imposed wage & price controls. He signed the most sweeping regulatory laws. He made friends with Red China.
2. Again with the Dixiecrats. Only a few Dixiecrats joined the GOP. Almost every last one stayed in the Democrat Party and the Senate was full of them. It was pretty galling to see Sam Ervin, a staunch defender of Jim Crow and segregation, portrayed as “a simple country lawyer” going after Nixon out of a sense of righteous indignation. You want conservatives to own Strom Thurmond, you’d better make peace with Sam Ervin. He obviously did not get Nixon’s message.
3. Your racism and sectionalism is pretty gross.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/19/2022 @ 9:33 pmDid you oppose lend lease to britian in world war II? Did you want hitler to win?
Man, you’re old.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/19/2022 @ 9:34 pmhttps://wartranslated.com/
From: Summary of Arestovych and Feygin daily broadcast:
“Republicans want more clear distinction of what’s actual aid to 🇺🇦, and what’s used for other purposes – like assisting African countries buying 🇺🇦 crops.”
steveg (8bbb90) — 10/19/2022 @ 10:00 pm@68. The solution is political, not military. Someday, you’ll figure that out.
Just as the EXCOMM did six decades ago.
DCSCA (a289de) — 10/19/2022 @ 10:04 pmThat explanation from a Zelenksky confidante is no doubt full of diplomatic nuance, but makes sense. One is a DC attempt at a twofer: African aid and UA aid bundled. DC has a way of losing a lot of money to everyone in the food chain in these tangential deals. Better book keeping to call the food purchase money African aid and keep it seperate from military aid. When the smoke and mirrors come out, the only things I know is the money always disappears and the pretty lady changed her outfit to finish the distraction about the disappearance of the cash. Why are people applauding like seals? We just got hosed.
steveg (8bbb90) — 10/19/2022 @ 10:10 pm@58 when russia bombs pearl harbor there will be know one to get back too. Z will have to go along way to be chaberlin selling out the czechs at munich. As for churchill ever see the movie ghandi? Name calling is one of the oldest propaganda techniques. So the women and children in the ukraine throwing molotov cocktails at invading russian tanks were bugs moran’s gang? @60 I thought @59 was going after me.
asset (f4efaf) — 10/19/2022 @ 11:22 pmwe had pro germans here and in england during world war II ;but like the posters here they were in the minority. David duke agrees with you.
asset (f4efaf) — 10/19/2022 @ 11:30 pm@74/75. Americans were specifically asked if the U.S. should declare war on Germany in support of England, France and Poland and should deploy forces to assist those countries. Americans were strongly opposed, with 90% rejecting the idea and 8% in favor.
Ninety percent. Verstehen sie?!?!
“Reality. What a concept.” – Robin Williams
DCSCA (da524c) — 10/20/2022 @ 1:27 amI was not going after you @59, asset, I was warning you. And I thank you for the perspective of “women and children in The Ukraine throwing Molotov cocktails at invading Russian tanks” versus some irrelevant pffter doing nothing more than waste bandwidth.
nk (ae40da) — 10/20/2022 @ 3:59 amBreaking News- UK PM Liz Truss resigns.
Shortest time in office for a PM- 45 days.
DCSCA (813186) — 10/20/2022 @ 6:05 am@77. More proof a windbreaker is not just a jacket.
DCSCA (813186) — 10/20/2022 @ 6:08 amnk and Kevin…I always appreciate your posts.
As for the usual suspect.
https://tenor.com/bg2Oh.gif
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 10/20/2022 @ 7:09 amYou can always scroll past him or use the blocking script, Simon. You are one of the more insightful posters here, but for some time you only seem to pop in to quickly note a concern that a comment section is going the wrong way, or predict how some posters may react to certain topics. Please don’t get consumed like AJ did.
Fight fire with fire and overwhelm the comments with original subjects that everyone prefers to engage. Avoid the trap of only talking about something that you “don’t want to talk about.”
My dad joked about why he disliked athletes. “All they do is talk about God.”
Don’t let that which disturbs you preoccupy you, IMO. Instead let loose with your own independent comments to help this place to thrive again.
Take care.
BuDuh (ea508d) — 10/20/2022 @ 7:29 am“…athletes” should be “…atheists.”
BuDuh (ea508d) — 10/20/2022 @ 7:34 amFor some reason my typo correction of “at hl etes” to “a t h ei sts” is tripping the moderation button.
BuDuh (ea508d) — 10/20/2022 @ 7:36 am@80/@81
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dA64dZmoW0
DCSCA (e1f13c) — 10/20/2022 @ 8:08 amBreaking-
Liz Truss trussed-resigns as British PM, the lettuce wins!
Shortest serving UK PM ever (45 days).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/20/2022 @ 8:23 amPutin has committed to the long game: try to wear out western support with inflated energy and food costs, exhaust Ukraine resolve, and then “win” by subjugating Ukraine and dethroning the West’s security order. It seems that some in the GOP want to give Putin some hope. No one supports a blank check or another never-ending commitment, but we are at a cross-roads. Putin’s fighting forces are also depleting, supplies running dry, and morale cratering….especially when you have involuntary poorly-prepared recruits and soldiers watching Ukrainians getting restocked with the West’s best weapons. What stream of support makes sense…gives the Ukrainians a fighting chance….and provides the time for Putin-fatigue to metastasize and kill its host? Zero is not the right value. Winter is coming. The West can get cold feet. I’m hoping resolve holds because with every day the Russian war machine degrades and opposition festers. It’s time to be strategic.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/20/2022 @ 8:35 amThank you, AJ. I just hate to see so much good stuff consumed by weirdness.
Sadly, I have trouble with the blocking script. That’s on me, however.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 10/20/2022 @ 8:46 amP.S. AJ: at least I have an explanation for the Adderall shortage I keep reading about.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 10/20/2022 @ 8:47 amasset woke me up. Ukrainian women and children are fighting Russian tanks with Molotov cocktails. What some whatever posts on the internet is less consequential than a gnat’s fart.
Thank you, again, asset.
nk (cb9531) — 10/20/2022 @ 8:54 amnk, do you remember the story about the Czech partisan who spray painted onto the Russian tank the words “They are here. Hide your watches and wives.”
Russians gotta Russia.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 10/20/2022 @ 8:58 amNo one supports a blank check or another never-ending commitment, but we are at a cross-roads.
No one?????
Biden stated that the United States would continue to provide financial assistance for Ukraine “as long it takes.” – Squinty McStumblebum, ’60 Minutes’ CBS News, 9/19/22
https://conservativesdaily.com/on-60-minutes-biden
JFCAM.
DCSCA (e1f13c) — 10/20/2022 @ 9:12 am60 years ago today, October 20, 1962- the Cuban Missile Crisis- tick-tock, tick-tock…
President Kennedy returns suddenly to Washington and after five hours of discussion with top advisers [the EXCOMM] decides on the quarantine. Plans for deploying naval units are drawn and work is begun on a speech to notify the American people.
Kennedy met with members of EXCOMM and other top advisers throughout October 20/21, considering two remaining options: an air strike primarily against the Cuban missile bases or a naval blockade of Cuba. A full-scale invasion was not the administration’s first option. McNamara supported the naval blockade as a strong but limited military action that left the U.S. in control. The term “blockade” was problematic. According to international law, a blockade is an act of war, but the Kennedy administration did not think that the Soviets would be provoked to attack by a mere blockade. Additionally, legal experts at the State Department and Justice Department concluded that a declaration of war could be avoided if another legal justification, based on the Rio Treaty for defense of the Western Hemisphere, was obtained from a resolution by a two-thirds vote from the members of the Organization of American States (OAS).
Admiral George Anderson, Chief of Naval Operations wrote a position paper that helped Kennedy to differentiate between what they termed a “quarantine” of offensive weapons and a blockade of all materials, claiming that a classic blockade was not the original intention. Since it would take place in international waters, Kennedy obtained the approval of the OAS for military action under the hemispheric defense provisions of the Rio Treaty.
Kennedy planned to deliver a nationwide televised address on all of the major networks announcing the discovery of the missiles the evening of October 22.
https://microsites.jfklibrary.org/cmc/oct20/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis
tick-tock, tick-tock…
___________
Some intriguing and revealing docs open for public view the National Archives as well:
https://www.archives.gov/news/topics/cuban-missile-crisis
DCSCA (e1f13c) — 10/20/2022 @ 9:30 am@88. Ukrainian women and children are fighting Russian tanks with Molotov cocktails.
So corrupt Ukraine has cheap gasoline to burn? Obtained w/FREE U.S. taxpayer $$ no doubt.
Who-T-F-cares; It’s not an American problem no matter how hard you try to make it one.
But if firebombs are your metric, look to your own backyard:
-Molotov Cocktails Thrown At Chicago Synagogue, Police Say 5-20-19
-Chicago (IL) 7-11 Store Torched in Molotov Cocktail Attack – 12-20-21
-Chicago man arrested for throwing a Molotov cocktail into Chinese embassy in Washington – 6-10-22
etc., etc., etc.
The Bugs/Al gang fight is not an American problem.
DCSCA (641285) — 10/20/2022 @ 11:27 amI thought @59 was going after me.
Nah. You’re just wrong, but not a troll. DCSCA is the troll.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/20/2022 @ 11:38 amSimon, I feel your angst. Normal people are just continually surprised by abnormal people. I think our natural tendency is to think that, at some base level, everyone is empathetic and thoughtful. But the internet continuously reminds us that there are folks out there with various levels of psychopathy and narcissism that just ain’t right. I read up on the psychology of trolling, because that helps me process. I feel I’m susceptible in part because I want to know how damaged people tick. Why they are like they are. What’s the motivation and is it more than just an inability to listen. It would also be nice to have community without blocking scripts but sa la vie. Block and skip…it’s the new two step.
AJ_Liberty (5f05c3) — 10/20/2022 @ 11:52 amSimon,
So is young man go to police station in Donetsk and say “I want to report that two Swiss soldiers stole my Russian watch.” And desk sergeant say “Don’t you mean two Russian soldiers stole your Swiss watch?” And young man say “You said it, not me.”
nk (f2f5ed) — 10/20/2022 @ 12:29 pmRethugliKKKan voter intimidation is starting early. In georgia fake ballots found at early voting site and in arizona rethugs following voters in early voting sites and filming them and their license plates telling one voter you better not have any out standing warrants our child support. Supreme court justice william rehnquist use to intimidate voters in south phoenix trying to prevent them from voting. Az authorities have ask feds to investigate voter intimidation. this is only the start of rethugliKKKans trying to stop minorities from voting. (DU)
asset (fd09eb) — 10/20/2022 @ 1:34 pm@94. Projecting again. No valid POV. Sad.
_________
Biden tells reporter ‘Count, kid, count’ after she questions number of candidates campaigning with him
“John Fetterman is going to appear with you today in Pennsylvania, but there haven’t been that many candidates campaigning with you. Why?” a reporter asked. “That’s not true. There have been 15! Count, kid, count! Alright?,” the president responded. -FoxNews.com
Count, kid? Alright, Jack: Squinty McStumblebum begins his 81st YEAR on Planet Earth in 31 days!
“I’d like to see Paris before I die. Philadelphia will do.” – Cuthbert J. Twillie [W.C. Fields] ‘My Little Chickadee’ 1940
DCSCA (824933) — 10/20/2022 @ 1:45 pmBanning slavery on ballot in 5 states. 19 states allow slavery mostly for criminal offenses.(yahoo news)
asset (fd09eb) — 10/20/2022 @ 1:50 pmThis Ukraine conversation has gone stale. Here is something else to chew on. A thoughtful article in, of all places, the Federalist.
https://thefederalist.com/2022/10/20/we-need-to-stop-calling-ourselves-conservatives/
Appalled (b8593a) — 10/20/2022 @ 2:53 pmThis Ukraine conversation has gone stale.
The billions of borrowed dollars and given freely to the gang to finance it are certainly maintaining plenty of intere$t.
DCSCA (2b8ddb) — 10/20/2022 @ 3:12 pm@97: I don’t trust things from free republic, gateway pundit or DU.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/20/2022 @ 6:09 pm4Item: Putin declared martial law in 4 annexed regions
Q. And what was it there until now?
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/20/world/europe/ukraine-civilans-russia-occupation.html
I think this could be outside of the annexed territory even.
So why did Putin do this??
This was to regularize things under Russian law. So their soldiers and special police groups or whatever would not be violating Russian law, because they could be afraid to commmit crimes because they might fear prosecution later by a Russian government.
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/21/2022 @ 12:59 pmWWillliam F, Buckley used to complain about American liberals calling Brezhnev and company “conservatives” (which in a Russian Communist context, they were)
Sammy Finkelman (1d215a) — 10/21/2022 @ 1:02 pmAn excellent thread on the Minsk accords and associated Putinist propaganda.
lurker (cd7cd4) — 10/21/2022 @ 9:53 pmThank you for the reminder lurker. My search skills (both Goog and brain!) are so poor today, would some one search this site to find the post where Patterico and friends covered this?
felipe (484255) — 10/22/2022 @ 4:22 amBy the way, I am worried about Dana! I hope she is well.
felipe (484255) — 10/22/2022 @ 4:23 amMitch is doing the right thing:
Those who spend their time licking Putin’s boots will disagree.
Jim Miller (85fd03) — 10/22/2022 @ 6:54 am#105 That is an excellent thread, lurker. And I would just add this point: During his election campaign, Zelenskyy promised to seek negotiations with Russia.
Jim Miller (85fd03) — 10/22/2022 @ 6:59 amGreat slide show.
Peremoha Ukrayina!
Rip Murdock (138b20) — 10/22/2022 @ 2:49 pmHopefully US personnel get added to the slideshow so you can really get your rocks off.
BuDuh (c9f752) — 10/22/2022 @ 2:53 pmWe send troops to Europe on rotation for training all the time. These deployments are to send a message to Russia. I doubt US ground troops will be fighting anywhere in Europe unless Russia invaded a NATO country and tries to occupy territory. Highly unlikely.
Rip Murdock (138b20) — 10/22/2022 @ 3:12 pmAll bolding in original. Footnotes omitted.
Rip Murdock (a8bd31) — 10/22/2022 @ 3:33 pm‘Peace, peace,’ they say, when there is no peace.”
Rip Murdock (a8bd31) — 10/22/2022 @ 3:43 pmThose who spend their time licking Putin’s boots will disagree.
This is odd for someone who decries ad hominums. Preemptively smearing anyone who disagrees with you?
Not that you’re wrong.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/22/2022 @ 3:54 pmWe send troops to Europe on rotation for training all the time.
Just the same, I’ll wager there are significantly more — and more capable — troops there now that there were in 2019.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/22/2022 @ 3:56 pmI’ll wager there are significantly more — and more capable — troops there now that there were in 2019.
You’d break even.
There’s more physical numbers, but less there than meet the eye.
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/06/us-troops-surpass-100000-in-europe/
Cannon fodder that’s less capable:
U.S. Army Lowers Education Standards For Recruits As Recruiting Gets Tougher
The U.S. Army has decided to drop its long-standing requirement that new recruits have at least a high school diploma, as President Joe Biden’s Pentagon finds new soldiers harder and harder to come by. The move comes, as NBC News reported earlier … as the Army has met just 40 percent of its recruiting goal with just three months left in the fiscal year.
https://www.tampafp.com/u-s-army-lowers-education-standards-for-recruits-as-recruiting-gets-tougher/
Every branch of the military is struggling to make its 2022 recruiting goals, officials say
With a record low number of Americans eligible to serve, and few of those willing to do it, this “is the year we question the sustainability of the all-volunteer force,” said an expert.
The pool of those eligible to join the military continues to shrink, with more young men and women than ever disqualified for obesity, drug use or criminal records. Last month, Army Chief of Staff Gen. James McConville testified before Congress that only 23% of Americans ages 17-24 are qualified to serve without a waiver to join, down from 29% in recent years.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/every-branch-us-military-struggling-meet-2022-recruiting-goals-officia-rcna35078
“Stupid is as stupid does.” – Forrest Gump [Tom Hanks] ‘Forrest Gump’ 1994
DCSCA (6ea46b) — 10/22/2022 @ 4:17 pmDCSCA, you are a master at misuse of statistics and conflation of disconnected factoids.. Recruits may be less capable, but the 101st Airborne isn’t where they put them.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/23/2022 @ 12:58 amYou got the quote right though, and it fits your post.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/23/2022 @ 12:58 amI posted some of this on the other thread, but it merits reposting here. The interview, and the largely out-of-context reports of the interview say different things:
Interview with Punchbowl Press 10/18/22
This was in the course of an interview on mostly fiscal matters: debt ceiling, more COVID funding, Capitol Hill unions, plus things like immigration. In context, it was a statement that the GOP caucus would not be as forthcoming on spending money, and not just Ukraine.
But read it yourself. It quite clearly been spun to encourage fence-sitters to vote D, and to confirm that choice for others. But nothing there showed any hostility by McCarthy towards Ukraine.
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/26/2022 @ 2:14 pmSorry, link:
Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/26/2022 @ 2:15 pmInterview with Punchbowl Press 10/18/22