Patterico's Pontifications

10/5/2022

More Evidence That Winning An Election Still Supersedes Moral Character And Consistency For Some Republicans

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:26 am



[guest post by Dana]

Sign of the times…

Herschel Walker, a professed Christian and Republican candidate running for the Senate on a pro-life platform and equates abortion to murder and wants to ban it, with no exceptions for rape, incest, or if the mother’s life is in danger, reportedly paid for his girlfriend’s abortion in 2009. He encouraged the abortion as a matter of convenience because it was “not the right time” for him to have a child.” As corroboration, the woman who had the abortion “provided a receipt of the abortion, a deposited check from Walker for $700 that paid for the procedure, and even a signed “get well soon” card bearing, what appeared to be, Walker’s signature.” Although Walker, who claims to have always been pro-life, denies it happened, his team apparently knew about the abortion before it came to light:

Four people with knowledge of those preliminary discussions said that the abortion issue was well known within the state, even before reporters began inquiring about it.

It was brought to the attention of those working on Walker’s behalf, in part as a means of discouraging him from running. His team downplayed the potential disruption it would cause. But, according to one of those people, they did not outright deny it.

Strategists and oppo researchers also claim to have heard the story long before Walker announced his bid for the Senate.

Christian Republicans, particularly in the MAGA wing of the Republican Party, have been adamant in their opposition to abortion. It’s a black-and-white moral issue: No abortion, no exceptions. So with that in mind, consider Dana Loesch discussing the issue below. She believes that Walker’s involvement in abortion doesn’t matter at all because taking control of the Senate is what is important here. Note that she also doesn’t mention any come-to-Jesus moment of remorse or redemption that Walker may have experienced post-abortion, and obviously he hasn’t either. Instead, this is a calculated matter of political expediency to Loesch:

Post-Dobbs, do you think Loesch represents Republicans at large with her easy dismissal of a Republican candidate’s involvement with abortion because winning is still more important than the moral fiber of a candidate? Also, if you recently took me to task for my views on abortion (against elective abortion, yes to exceptions for rape, incest, if the mother’s life is in danger), do you have any issue supporting Walker (even if you’re not in Georgia) or is his hypocrisy an issue for you?

Me, I’m left wondering when moral character and consistency will make a solid comeback in the Republican Party…certainly doesn’t look to be anytime soon.

–Dana

113 Responses to “More Evidence That Winning An Election Still Supersedes Moral Character And Consistency For Some Republicans”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. Post-Dobbs, do you think Loesch represent Republicans at large with her easy dismissal of a Republican candidate’s involvement with abortion because winning is still more important than the moral fiber of a candidate?

    Yes.

    Also, if you recently took me to task for my views on abortion (against elective abortion, yes to exceptions for rape, incest, if the mother’s life is in danger), do you have any issue supporting Walker (even if you’re not in Georgia) or is his hypocrisy an issue for you?

    Zero issue in voting for Walker over Warnock.

    Me, I’m left wondering when moral character and consistency will make a solid comeback in the Republican Party…certainly doesn’t look to be anytime soon.

    What does it say about you, a Georgian voter who has pro-life tendencies, voting for Warnock or abstaining altogether?

    To me, voting for pro-life Walker (despite the alleged allegations) absolutely adds to the moral character and consistency to the Republican Party.

    whembly (b770f8)

  3. If I were in Georgia, I’d write in a protest vote for Kirby Smart, but I don’t think he’d take the pay cut.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  4. Going by the RCP average, Herschel is only down by 3.8.
    Sigh.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  5. Don’t worry, your guy – the wife abuser – will pull it off.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  6. Control of the Senate is more important than my personal dislike of some of the players. If I were to insist that all candidates of my party were squeaky-clean, by party would have no control of anything.

    People just don’t get it: Our system was designed so that terrible people would be forced to do at least some good things, much as capitalism forces greedy people to serve the masses. The Founders knew that politicians (read: themselves) were all scoundrels and devised a system where the damage they could do was limited, and staying in office required they serve the masses most of the time.

    Tammany Hall served people.
    Huey Long served people.
    Eldridge Gerry(-mander) served people. He was a Founder, btw.

    So, if you tell me that someone is a member of the Hellfire Club, I have to ask: How does he stand on gun control?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  7. I really don’t understand this perverse attitude that we should put political power in the hands of those who would FU*K us sideways because of some hypocrisy in some of our candidates. It’s a narcissistic position, where one puts one’s self-image in front of the self-interest of themselves, their family or their community.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  8. @6 Even if the accusation against Walker is true he’s still more pro-life than Warnock who adheres to the Democrat position of federally funded abortion to birth, with abortion compelled on medical facilities and personnel regardless of belief.

    And for that Loesch criticism, her point was that Walker’s past doesn’t change the fact that taking back the Senate would save more lives.

    The policy outcomes is what is important.

    Jeopardizing your policy outcomes by making it easier for the other party candidate to win because you don’t like your candidate’s “x” simply means you don’t have the strong desire for advancing your policy outcomes.

    whembly (b770f8)

  9. Me, I’m left wondering when moral character and consistency will make a solid comeback in the Republican Party…certainly doesn’t look to be anytime soon.

    Please point to the most recent period when this was the case. In either party. The Good Old Days never were.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  10. What I see here is opposition to the current GOP platform, couched as opposition to people. Yeah, sure, Trump, but down-ballot is the normal spectrum of candidates. Nobody here had a thing bad to say about some of the GOP candidates back in the day when policies were more to their liking.

    Is supporting confiscatory taxes, state-funded genital mutilation and third-trimester abortion really less of a moral failing than being a jerk with a girlfriend.

    But no. Nothing but own-goals.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  11. When was the republican party moral? Nixon? Reagan/bush? Dubya/cheney? Trump? Every since tricky dick’s southern strategy to get ignorant southern white trash democrats to vote rethugliKKKan with god/abortion, guns and gays so they will support a party for the wealthy and their tax cuts for the rich. Only their free trade economic libertarianism for the donor class was a bridge too far. Starting with treason and sedition from nixon/reagan/bush’es and trump.

    asset (fe49d3)

  12. The idea that personal character is as nothing next to how someone claims to stand on issues (which could change at any moment) brought us a president who felt entitled to pilfer highly classified documents bearing on national security, store then carelessly, resist multiple entreaties to return government property to its rightful owner, and lie about it incessantly. (And who knows what happened to the documents not in their proper folders.)

    People who used to say “character matters” are now defending that person and attacking those who are trying to uphold the law and protect national security.

    The rejection of character as an important element of leadership brought us a president who preemptively refused to accept an election loss as a legitimate result, and (as the leaked Bannon tape suggests) had a plan to stay in power regardless of the outcome. That person caused the first disruption of the peaceful transfer of power in our nation’s history and engendered a dominant GOP doctrine that election results should not be accepted if they don’t go as one wishes. That person has sown more distrust in U.S. institutions than anyone else in memory because he understands “what is right” as equivalent to “what benefits me” — and a whole political party and its thought-leaders go along with it, or zealously promote his perspective on right and wrong.

    The “policy, not personality” rationale for ignoring character in leadership clearly has a big downside.

    Radegunda (57037f)

  13. To me, it is not so much voting for the less-than-perfect conservative, it is not ensuring that the lefty wins. Herschel Walker is not the perfect candidate. But he is better than Warnock. Not voting for him is essentially helping Warnock win.

    In a perfect world, conservative candidates would be pillars of morality and virtue. But we cannot afford the Democrats continuing to destroy our economy, our country, and our culture.

    Lee Also (562a18)

  14. i didn’t care that dubya bush did cocaine or that Laura bush killed someone, and I don’t care what Walker did in the past either

    JF (54e182)

  15. Don’t worry, your guy – the wife abuser – will pull it off.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/5/2022 @ 11:43 am

    But Walker isn’t my guy.

    Dana (1225fc)

  16. Please don’t use Trump to smear everyone else. Yes, Trump is beyond the pale but there’s quite a gap between him and the line the self-righteous draw.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  17. The “policy, not personality” rationale for ignoring character in leadership clearly has a big downside.

    Sure. But so does the voting for people who hate you have a downside. I know that voting for the lesser evil is unsatisfying but you will rarely get the pristine candidate. I am reminded of the life-long Republican who has never actually voted for a Republican; always some flaw that he cannot abide.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  18. Montagu worries that Walker is not far enough behind in the polls. But the upside of this is that Kemp is likely to beat Abrams in the governor race, and Walker loses a race a Republican who is just the usual boring would win.

    There is a salutory message here for the Trump/Haiku wing of the GOP — you guys insist on forcing the party into supporting losers that lose.

    Appalled (03f53c)

  19. @13

    The “policy, not personality” rationale for ignoring character in leadership clearly has a big downside.

    Radegunda (57037f) — 10/5/2022 @ 12:41 pm

    I agree. Wholeheartedly.

    That takes work on our part.

    That takes investments on the voters at the absolute beginning of the primary process.

    That means, as voters, we must be fully engaged during the primaries in order to select viable candidates who can not ONLY advance our preferred policy agendas, but ALSO can be of good character.

    In addition, that also means we need to weigh in our likely opponent’s agendas.

    During the general election, we are locked in to the candidates that the season is offering. There’s nothing wrong with “voting for the least bad option” or “voting based on single issues”.

    The control of the House and particularly the Senate is on the table.

    What agendas are you looking for in the next session?

    THAT, should be the main driver as to which candidate gets your vote. That isn’t the time to throw-away a nominal GOP vote in a tantrum because you don’t like the current slate of candidates.

    So, ask yourself this question: Do you want more of the same in the last 2 years? Or do you care? If you don’t, and you’re in position to vote in Georgia, then voting for Walker is perfectly defensible.

    If you’re tired of suboptimal candidates in your party, then it’s time to be more actively engaged in the primary process, and really in politics in general as you’ll need to be on the lookout for better candidates that is currently working their way up… they’ll need support.

    whembly (b770f8)

  20. Gah… typos, but you get my drift…

    whembly (b770f8)

  21. The loser’s personality defects go far to explain his many policy failures. For example, conservatives have generally opposed running large deficits. But take a look at what happened to the national debt
    while the loser was president:

    In fiscal year 2016 (October 1, 2016 through September 30, 2017) it was 106 percent of GDP; by fiscal year 2020,it had risen to 128 percent. (It fell slightly to 125 percent in 2021.)

    Or compare the death rate from COVID while the loser was president to, for example, the death rate in Canada. Anyone who reads Deborah Birx’s “Silent Invasion will find evidence that the loser’s personality defects explain much of our sorry performance against COVID.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  22. “Winning isn’t everything; it’s the only thing…” – UCLA Bruins football coach Henry Russell (“Red”) Sanders.

    “I love the smell of napalm in the morning… The smell, you know that gasoline smell? The whole hill… smelled like… victory.” – Lt. Col., Bill Kilgore [Robert Duvall] ‘Apocalypse Now’ 1979

    DCSCA (016b0d)

  23. Dana,

    You measure Walker against some absolute and accuse him, of the ultimate American sin (hypocrisy). But his opponent favors many things that I consider immoral, or evil. Walkers sin is banal in today’s America. Warnock would have such abortions protected by law and financed by government. He would take more tax money from working people (using “the rich” as a beard). He would protect genital mutilation of children, calling it medical care and he would pursue a greater indoctrination of the nation’s schoolchildren for political gain.

    In the end, Walker is just a reliable vote for McConnell, a man who I think embodies the decency and clear-headedness you actually seek, where Warnock is a vote for the devil.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  24. Has anyone noticed that both parties vote as a bloc? Where is this character you speak of?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  25. Or compare the death rate from COVID while the loser was president to, for example, the death rate in Canada.

    Nobody travels in Canada in the winter.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  26. Don’t worry, your guy – the wife abuser – will pull it off.

    It’s amazing Kirby Smart still has a job at UGA, what his domestic violence.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  27. Whembly, I understand the point that while Walker is personally flawed and has apparently paid for a woman he impregnated to get an abortion he’s likely to advance republican policy goals. But the abortion debate has been framed by the pro-life movement as one of moral absolutes. It’s asserted that abortion is murder and that there should be no exceptions for rape, incest, or in some laws, for life of the mother.

    if you believe that abortion is murder and should be banned without exception I don’t see how you overlook that because Walker advances your policy preferences.

    I could see a ‘least bad’ situation where his ‘murder’ is acknowledged, condemned, and people vote for him in spite of that. But I’m not seeing that from the right. The comment that Dana selected seems representative from what I’ve seen so far. At least for me it deeply undercuts the moral argument against abortion I hear people assert.

    Not sure how much impact my POV has or how representative it is, but the sympathy and respect I have for people I disagree with is in part based on my understanding of their motives and sincerity.

    Time123 (715640)

  28. Whembly, I wanted to add that I don’t doubt *your* sincerity on this, I mean that. I believe you are passionate about Abortion for moral reasons and being completely sincere and honest about what you think.

    Time123 (715640)

  29. Control of the Senate is more important than my personal dislike of some of the players. If I were to insist that all candidates of my party were squeaky-clean, by party would have no control of anything.

    I never insisted on “squeaky-clean”, Kevin, but I draw the line at unhinged and/or abusers, and Walker-Trump are bruthas from different muthas in that regard.
    Also, your goals are different than mine, where mine is a divided government to stymie Biden’s agenda, which we’ll have when the GOP regains the majority and, ugh, McCarthy becomes Speaker.
    Yes, I know that judges are an issue as well, but I’m okay with a GOP majority in one of the houses.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  30. #22

    Winning isn’t everything; it’s the only thing…

    Which is why Walker was a terrible nominee. He has more baggage than Zsa Zsa Gabor and did not live in Georgia until Trump decreed he was his guy for the Senate. The whole thing happened because Walker’s pro signing was a big deal for Trump in the 80s and because he thought he’s make a good token black candidate against Warnock. Never mind the whole multiple personality disorder, violence against women thing (which was known befre the race started.)

    Not everyone votes the party line. A Senator is supposed to represent a state’s interests. Kind of hard to do if you been living in Texas most of your adult life.

    Appalled (f70e33)

  31. @14 I was posting about lying us into a war with iraq when he knew thy didn’t have nukes and needing a “second pearl harbor” before the american people would allow him to attack iraq. Progress for a new american century 1998.

    asset (fe49d3)

  32. I think that Walker took one too many hits to the head during his football days. He is barely articulate and cannot present a cogent argument for or against an issue. He has also been found to have lied repeatedly about any number of issues and does not present as one capable of making critical decisions that will impact the lives of many, many Americans. I have never felt confident in him as a political candidate – regardless of his party affiliation. But I do find it pretty rich that those who question and mock Biden’s mental fitness have no problem with someone who clearly has just as much trouble articulating his thoughts, but also understanding policy issues. And Walker is almost 20 years younger than Biden.

    Dana (1225fc)

  33. Control of the Senate is more important than my personal dislike of some of the players. If I were to insist that all candidates of my party were squeaky-clean, by party would have no control of anything.

    I never said anything about “squeaky clean” candidates. Very obviously, no one is perfect, and by the time people run for office, they usually have a skeleton or two in their closets. However, there is a baseline of behavior and actions that I think Republicans once tried to adhere to and select candidates who were in the ballpark of that range. That is no longer true. A fact that cannot be denied given the previous president.

    By you claiming the standard we want is nothing less than “squeaky-clean” is misguided. But it also allows for Trump-level candidates.

    Dana (1225fc)

  34. @31. Which is why Walker was a terrible nominee.

    What are you, French?? 🙂

    Eat your spinach!!!!:

    You Got To Be A Football Hero To Get Along With The Beautiful Girls!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LicB8xovxsc&t=2s

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0reywtH5Cw

    DCSCA (8aec12)

  35. 15… I know. You’d be cheering Raphael Warnock on and the Marxist wife-abuser will pull this caper off.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  36. @27

    Whembly, I understand the point that while Walker is personally flawed and has apparently paid for a woman he impregnated to get an abortion he’s likely to advance republican policy goals. But the abortion debate has been framed by the pro-life movement as one of moral absolutes. It’s asserted that abortion is murder and that there should be no exceptions for rape, incest, or in some laws, for life of the mother.

    if you believe that abortion is murder and should be banned without exception I don’t see how you overlook that because Walker advances your policy preferences.

    I could see a ‘least bad’ situation where his ‘murder’ is acknowledged, condemned, and people vote for him in spite of that. But I’m not seeing that from the right. The comment that Dana selected seems representative from what I’ve seen so far. At least for me it deeply undercuts the moral argument against abortion I hear people assert.

    Not sure how much impact my POV has or how representative it is, but the sympathy and respect I have for people I disagree with is in part based on my understanding of their motives and sincerity.

    Time123 (715640) — 10/5/2022 @ 1:53 pm

    It doesn’t undercut the pro-life movement nor weakens any moral ‘standing’ to support Walker over Warnock.

    In fact, it buttress’ their positions in ensuring that Warnock doesn’t get the seat.

    whembly (b770f8)

  37. “There is a salutory message here for the Trump/Haiku wing of the GOP — you guys insist on forcing the party into supporting losers that lose.”

    Hey, if only writing slower could help the reader understand. As I’ve written before, I voted for Trump in the 2016 election and again in 2020 because I liked what he was able to accomplish against all the pushback he and his family had… anti-American assholes trying to hobble and take him down for his entire term and all. At this point, while he still may be a viable candidate, he is too damaged, and has much less self-discipline than what’s needed. And, unfortunately, he also brings out the true essence/personality of his detractors – which are legion – and the sh*theels of the federal bureaucracy…I think most of my fellow citizens have had all they can stomach of that crap.

    So my money is on DeSantis, who is a better, more viable candidate. But I will vote for the Republican nominee in 2024, whoever it is. America -and its institutions – can’t survive another 4 years of this idiocy.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  38. Lemme ax you, comrades: Was there ever any real doubt that Herschel Waller is nothing more than lying, ignorant, lowlife, gutter-trash, good for entertainment purposes only (and that was a long time ago)?

    Abortion! Bah, humbug! You’re gonna stand for this guy to vote on the budget, treaties with other nations, and federal appointments?

    nk (954500)

  39. You measure Walker against some absolute and accuse him, of the ultimate American sin (hypocrisy). ……

    Given that is Walker who has made his own absolute measuring stick, his failure to meet it is his own hypocrisy.

    Walker promised to vote pro-life without exceptions in an interview with reporters last week after a Macon, Georgia campaign event.

    “There’s no exception in my mind,” he said when asked about cases of rape and incest. “Like I say, I believe in life. I believe in life.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  40. Cross your cloacas, Democrats!

    For teh Win!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  41. Kevin M (eeb9e9) — 10/5/2022 @ 1:28 pm

    I thought you opposed extremists on both sides of the pro-life issue. You have excoriated me for the same position as Walker.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  42. @39

    Lemme ax you, comrades: Was there ever any real doubt that Herschel Waller is nothing more than lying, ignorant, lowlife, gutter-trash, good for entertainment purposes only (and that was a long time ago)?

    Abortion! Bah, humbug! You’re gonna stand for this guy to vote on the budget, treaties with other nations, and federal appointments?

    nk (954500) — 10/5/2022 @ 4:06 pm

    Over Warnock’s absolute leftist policies?

    Absolutely!

    whembly (b770f8)

  43. @40

    You measure Walker against some absolute and accuse him, of the ultimate American sin (hypocrisy). ……

    Given that is Walker who has made his own absolute measuring stick, his failure to meet it is his own hypocrisy.

    Walker promised to vote pro-life without exceptions in an interview with reporters last week after a Macon, Georgia campaign event.

    “There’s no exception in my mind,” he said when asked about cases of rape and incest. “Like I say, I believe in life. I believe in life.”

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/5/2022 @ 4:07 pm

    I don’t care if he’s hypocritical.

    “Walker promised to vote pro-life without exceptions in an interview…”.

    This is how he votes.

    Warnocks actually voting FOR the most radical abortion bills in the last term.

    See the difference?

    whembly (b770f8)

  44. So let me get this straight: Winning is more important to Republicans thanks principles, morals, and silly stuff like that. That then begs the question: If Republicans take the Senate, what are they going to do with their power? Because, based on what I’ve seen, they have one main goal and that is to ‘own the libs,’ in any way, shape and form. It’ll be payback time.

    Dana (1225fc)

  45. What I find interesting is that Trump supporters are sour on Dr. Oz, a Harvard and UPenn educated open heart surgeon, who has been married to the same woman for 37 years, but embrace Herschel Walker whom we all know what he is.

    Don’t you find that interesting? Or did you already know the quality of Trump supporters?

    nk (954500)

  46. Dana

    Very good points. Its scary how an endorsement can put such a flawed human being into high office. Its unfortunate that we need him, though

    EPWJ (650a62)

  47. Winning is more important to Republicans thanks principles, morals, and silly stuff like that.

    Yep. And you know who to thank for it?

    Lee Atwater.

    DCSCA (de276d)

  48. “Because, based on what I’ve seen, they have one main goal and that is to ‘own the libs,’ in any way, shape and form. It’ll be payback time.”

    “They” are good at multi-tasking. Some folks are capable of dealing with several things at the same time.

    I can’t think of a more deserving herd than the Dimocrats. Good and hard, I say.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  49. So let me get this straight: Winning is more important to Republicans thanks principles, morals, and silly stuff like that. That then begs the question: If Republicans take the Senate, what are they going to do with their power? Because, based on what I’ve seen, they have one main goal and that is to ‘own the libs,’ in any way, shape and form. It’ll be payback time.

    What is your plan to get some of what you want from the Federal Government, or are you content with the current non-purists running the show?

    BuDuh (08a71e)

  50. However, there is a baseline of behavior and actions that I think Republicans once tried to adhere to

    When what that Golden Age?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  51. *When WAS that Golden Age?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  52. “If it [2022 election] is a referendum on the president, they [democrats] will lose. And they know that.”

    —- “Raggedy” Jen Psaki

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  53. Remember, these are not arguments being made by Republicans. They may have made them during the primaries but this is the general election. The question here is simple: Do you want to further the policies of people who hate you and every last thing you stand for, or will you suck it up and vote for the team?

    Do you vote for a hypocrite, or do you vote for the people who find it funny that you might not?

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  54. Winning is more important to Republicans than principles, morals, and silly stuff like that.

    Standing on principles, to their destruction, is a suicide pact. You want to fly the principles flag? Go join a third party. They actually do put hardcore principles before winning and they’re proud of it.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  55. Herschel’s denials are only sounding worse.

    After a woman revealed that Republican senatorial candidate Herschel Walker had urged her to have an abortion, Walker adamantly denied the story and claimed he had no idea who this woman could be.

    But there’s a good reason the woman finds that defense highly doubtful: She’s the mother of one of his children.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  56. “Walker promised to vote pro-life without exceptions in an interview…”.

    This is how he votes.

    With all of the lies he has been found to have told, why do you believe he will follow through on this, or any other claims?

    Dana (1225fc)

  57. Ah:

    After a woman revealed that Republican senatorial candidate Herschel Walker had urged her to have an abortion, Walker adamantly denied the story and claimed he had no idea who this woman could be.

    But there’s a good reason the woman finds that defense highly doubtful: She’s the mother of one of his children.

    Dana (1225fc)

  58. “If it [2022 election] is a referendum on the president, they [democrats] will lose. And they know that.”

    —- “Raggedy” Jen Psaki

    The Saudis just b-tch-slapped him today; Putin keeps pissing in his Ovaltine and Ukraine keeps picking his pockets– and what does Joe proclaim on videotape amidst the wreckage in Florida????:

    “Nobody fvcks with a Biden.”- Soprano McBlustersquint

    You can’t make this stuff up.

    DCSCA (6fba96)

  59. It’s ironic for never Trumpers to pontificate about “character and principles.” They (used to) claim to be “true conservatives.” Now they back the most obnoxious leftists. They don’t even criticize the left. And they don’t seem to realize Donald Trump is no longer POTUS.

    As for Walker, he was Trump’s idea. Walker hasn’t lived in Georgia in a long time. His checkered personal history (pulling a gun on his then wife, threatening to kill himself) was in the news years ago. Yet Trump thought it was a great idea to run Walker against Warnock.

    DN (57bbe0)

  60. With all of the lies he has been found to have told, why do you believe he will follow through on this, or any other claims?
    Dana (1225fc) — 10/5/2022 @ 8:32 pm

    why not just say clearly who you favor in this race?

    the guy who you can trust to be pro-abortion up to day of birth?

    JF (cc6522)

  61. Kevin, did you agree that character matters, when that was the GOP mantra in the ’90s? I know I did. Am I supposed to stop caring because the teams flipped?

    lurker (cd7cd4)

  62. I was told I couldn’t vote for the not for sale candidate in 2000 and that I had to vote for the party’s corporate third way candidate because character doesn’t matter one of which a woman in the women’s movement who said she would give a blow job to bill clinton. I voted for ralph nader. In 2016 I was told character matters ;but I have to vote for crooked hillary clinton anyway. I was told I have to vote for whatever crap the DNC throws against the wall to defeat trump and bernie sanders and don’t you dare vote for jill stein. When they go low “we” go high! Hold your nose and vote for clinton to stop trump. I voted for jill stein. In 2018 I was rewarded with the election of AOC and the squad. In 2020 again I was told to vote for hunter biden’s lap top. I choose to write in the green party candidate because the democrat party using ballot laws put in by rethugliKKKans to keep the libertarian party off of the ballot had the green party kicked off the ballot. I read here supposedly moral right to lifers saying hold your nose and vote for hershel walker. Moral character who dat!

    asset (ebe5ec)

  63. @57, Audibles. Who TF cares; abortion is crabgrass in the lawn of a house on fire; football is a team sport; hence Walker’s a team player. Give him the ball and watch him run to victory.

    DCSCA (37828f)

  64. @65 Who cares? democrats and democrat leaning independents who weren’t planning to vote in the mid terms care. They wont show up in the polling as likely voters. Neither will women infuriated with abortion decision who are now registering to vote out rethugliKKKans in midterms. Kansas abortion vote is good example polling of likely voters had it even or yes slightly ahead. No won by 60%. when all voters showed up to vote.

    asset (ebe5ec)

  65. “Biden thought it would be a political win for OPEC to
    increase production, so the US wouldn’t have to,
    thereby avoiding the wrath of green elites in his
    party. Instead, he’s undermined America’s standing
    in the world, helped Putin, and worsened inflation.”

    —- Michael Shellenberger

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  66. “Teddy Kennedy, Lion of the Senate! Bad driver when drunk and philandering, though. Drove drunk off a bridge and left Mary Jo Kopechne to drown in his car while he sobered up. Remained in office after all that, not charged for killing his passenger, re-elected and in office until his death from brain cancer decades later. 3rd longest serving Senator ever. Continued abusing women all his life.

    Tell me again why Walker is somehow disqualified from the Senate for (maybe, maybe not) doing something legal, responsible, and long in his past from before he ran for office.”

    —- mikee

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  67. AllahNick: Herschel is a contract killer.

    But it should matter. Walker hasn’t been accused of any ol’ oopsie here. By the logic of the pro-life movement, he’s charged with murder for hire. If a newspaper accused a political candidate of arranging the contract killing of an enemy and offered documentary circumstantial evidence to support it, that candidate would be a nonstarter for voters of both parties—I think. When I look back at the PRRI poll and reflect on Trump’s infamous line about shooting someone on Fifth Avenue, I do wonder.

    Assume that I’m right, though, and that even MAGA would rule out nominating a populist who allegedly hired a hit man to eliminate someone. What’s the difference between that case and this one?

    As Nick he mentioned further down, for Herschel, Republicans support an exception to abortion bans for the political life of the father.
    This mess won’t matter to the Trumpist right, but it will matter to offended Georgia independents and Republican women, that if Herschel won’t take responsibility for his kids and the women he impregnated, how can he take responsibility in representing 10½ million Georgians.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  68. The alternative – Democrat control of the out-of-control lefty spending senate – promises to be so much worse than anything Mr. Walker could do to Georgia or the USA.

    You just have to understand what’s at stake.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  69. Running their “Access Hollywood” play again…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  70. Col,

    They mean well, but the hardship, deaths, rape, murder, abuse of children matter less than ideological purity tests

    EPWJ (650a62)

  71. https://abortion.info/politics/presidents-and-abortion/ronald-reagan/

    Reagan signed the first abortion bill that was used by the scotus to make it the law of the land

    EPWJ (650a62)

  72. On the one hand, Herschel Walker had done other things that (his?) religion generally opposes, and has lied about other things or concealed facts.

    On the other hand making up somewhat plausible false allegations about personal conduct is a tactic used by people aligned with the Democrats.

    whembly wrote on another thread:

    • She provided “a” receipt with no verification & admits there is no documentation connecting it to Walker
    • She says she has a check made out by Walker for a different amount on a different day
    • She has an undated get well card with no abortion reference

    She claims that Herschel Walker approved the abortion in advance. But, under Roe v Wade there was no need for him to do so.

    If he had for the abortion,hewould have given her the money in advance, nt=ot afterward.

    And if the money given afterwards was not exact, he was probably paying her not for an abortion, but for sex (continuing to be his girlfriend)

    Walker was happy to be the father of other children. He was rich enough to pay any child support, and he was probably used to women who wanted the “job” of mother.

    The generic Get Well card proves nothing.

    It is consistent with the woman lying to him.

    Sammy Finkelman (19edaf)

  73. * If he had PAID for the abortion,he would have given her the money in advance, not afterward. (and then the amount does not correspond, and there’s nothing to say that’s the only money he ever gave her)

    The Get Well card has his signature, but we don’t know what she was supposed to get well from. An standard abortion??

    The fact that the str=ory was around for a while proves only that somebody was trying to peddle this for some time.

    Sammy Finkelman (19edaf)

  74. Even without the abortion story, do you want Herschel Walker do be one of the 546 bosses of you? What qualification does he have other than election denialism?

    I got to hand it to Trump, though. He outdid Putin on this one. Putin recruited lowlife trash from prisons and off the streets to loot, rape and pillage Ukraine. Trump recruited a candidate for the U.S. Senate.

    nk (cdf6dd)

  75. The polls suggest that Herschel Walker is likely to lose, while Brian Kemp, running for re-election as governor, is likely to win.

    A person who cared only about winning would still back candidates with better characters — because they have a better chance to win. This is not obvious to the loser and those in his cult, I suppose. But it should be obvious to any person with an open mind, and an IQ above room temperature.

    (I am not applauding those who only care about winning. They do damage to our nation every day. But I am saying that, even by their standard, Walker is a poor choice.)

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  76. nk,

    True enough but we are stuck with him he’s far better than the wife beating, child rapist defending Warnock, who want murderers, rapists and pedophiles freed from prison and to tax only certain races

    Yeah, it sucks – but it can suck more

    EPWJ (650a62)

  77. Here are the Georgia Senate polls.

    The latest from a top pollster, SurveyUSA, has Walker losing 38-50.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  78. #78 So Warnock could have been defeated, if the loser hadn’t picked another loser, Walker.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  79. In Georgia, we have a man who tried to run right over his wife with a two-ton car vs. a man who paid for a girlfriend’s abortion.

    Guess which one supports the policies and actions that are ruining the country.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  80. These “conservatives” who haven’t yet encountered a far-left Democrat they wouldn’t support over a Republican candidate… seemingly working in shifts… continue to amuse.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  81. Kevin, did you agree that character matters, when that was the GOP mantra in the ’90s? I know I did. Am I supposed to stop caring because the teams flipped?

    Wasn’t that when Pat Buchanan was running, along with Alan Keyes? Or Newt Gingrich was flipping wives? Did you find Bob Dole to be a man of stern character? What about Steve Forbes and Bob Dornan, both running for President in 1996. Then there was Bob Packwood in the Senate. Arlen Specter was an embarrassment from the Warren Commission onward.

    The good old days weren’t.

    But yes, character matters, but your idea of “character” is narrow and limited. A person who is cash-register honest can still be a thief, and a politician who would vote for a wealth tax has severe character issues in my book.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  82. Warnock’s ex-wife says he ran over her foot with a car. That’s a character issue, too.

    https://www.ajc.com/politics/politics-blog/warnocks-ex-wife-calls-him-great-actor-in-police-footage-of-disputes-aftermath/GWFKO4XDFBBG7ANUU7WFQ6F54M/

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  83. Two broken men who’ve had moral failures in their past.



    * One of them wants to take away the right to defend ourselves.



    * One of them wants to censor our speech. 



    * One of them supports open borders.



    * One of them supports releasing violent criminals from jail and defunding the police.



    * One of them supports war with Russia.



    * One of them supports high gas and food prices.



    * One of them supports turning our public schools into sexual grooming centers.

    h/t Achilles Choose wisely, Georgians!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  84. Apparently you think paying for an abortion is morally equivalent to running over someone’s foot.
    I think paying for an abortion in the first trimester isn’t bad at all. Good to know we’re so close on the morality of abortion. I look forward to an end to the assertion that it’s murder / killing a child.

    Walker really had shown how similar we are. Guess he’s a uniter.

    Time123 (422e7b)

  85. Of all the better candidates Trump could’ve crowned as nominee, he hand-picked a guy with even less character than our gutter-character ex-president.
    If Warnock wins (and it’s looking more likely), this one is on Trump, just like Trump was responsible for the Georgia US Senate losses in 2021.
    It’s another blown opportunity, an own-goal, by my dysfunctional Republican Party.

    Paul Montagu (753b42)

  86. Unfortunately, what you guys are disputing is Walker’s character, rather than his qualifications and his likely votes. Those who vote against Walker merely because his character is lacking are losing the thread. Problem I have is Walker is a vote for Trump’s next attempt at overthrowing the government. So I’ll vote for the reverend who ran over his wife’s foot. Period. End stop.

    Mostly, I regret Walker running and having his dirty laundry aired to the universe. He has had self-confessed psychological issues over the years and running for office is not going to help with those. While Walker is a grown man responsible for his own decisions, he was persuaded by Trump (probably emphasizing that he started him on the way to making him a rich man). Trump did this because he thinks we all need to be run by celebs who are in his pocket and he figured black football star vs black reverend was a slam dunk for his side.

    While the conversation here has focused on the charge and the hypocracy involved, you might want to pay attention to Walker’s kid, whose comments are self-dramatizing but also ring true:

    https://www.wsav.com/news/your-local-election-hq/hershel-walkers-son-lashes-out-at-him-on-twitter/

    Appalled (03f53c)

  87. Of all the better candidates Trump could’ve crowned as nominee

    yep!

    EPWJ (650a62)

  88. It should be fairly easy for someone (even Walker) to figure out who the woman is:

    After a couple of not terribly enlightening interviews on Fox News, Herschel Walker did a little more explaining Thursday morning in an interview with Hugh Hewitt.

    But that interview reinforced several key holes in his accounting of the allegation that he had paid for an abortion 13 years ago — an allegation, published by the Daily Beast, which Walker denies and which The Washington Post has not independently confirmed.

    The first is Walker’s continued claim that he doesn’t know the identity of the person making the allegation.
    ………
    Hewitt asked, “So just to put a bow on it, do you have any idea who this alleged former lover of yours is who says you paid for an abortion and fathered a child? Any idea whatsoever?”

    “I have no idea at all,” Walker responded.

    But that wouldn’t seem to be terribly difficult for Walker to figure out. This summer, we learned about three children Walker had fathered with different women whom he had not discussed publicly — in addition to his adult son, Christian. …..

    The Daily Beast……reported that by this summer one of the three children was an adult, while the others were 13 years old and 10 years old.

    Why that’s significant: The latest Daily Beast report states that Walker had the child with the woman years after the alleged 2009 abortion. That would seem to rule out it being the mother of any of his three oldest children. And that also makes it difficult to see how Walker doesn’t have some idea of the identity of the woman who spoke to the Daily Beast.

    (Walker, in the Hewitt interview, initially seemed to deny the report he’d fathered a child with the woman, but later clarified he was only denying the abortion — not later having a child with her.)
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  89. He only borrowed her by accident.

    nk (cdf6dd)

  90. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/6/2022 @ 11:07 am

    We will know her identity before the election as she will be on all the daytime talk shows.

    Rip Murdock (4dff28)

  91. Cross your cloacas, Warnock supporters, victory is within your grasp.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  92. @46

    So let me get this straight: Winning is more important to Republicans thanks principles, morals, and silly stuff like that. That then begs the question: If Republicans take the Senate, what are they going to do with their power? Because, based on what I’ve seen, they have one main goal and that is to ‘own the libs,’ in any way, shape and form. It’ll be payback time.

    Dana (1225fc) — 10/5/2022 @ 5:01 pm

    Better to “own the libs”, than the let the libs run the government.

    But, to better address your question: keep agitating for better governance. Work within the party to advance your policy preferences. Whether it’s calling the phone banks, writing stories, mailing letters, attending fundraiser… be part of the process.

    whembly (b770f8)

  93. @58

    “Walker promised to vote pro-life without exceptions in an interview…”.

    This is how he votes.

    With all of the lies he has been found to have told, why do you believe he will follow through on this, or any other claims?

    Dana (1225fc) — 10/5/2022 @ 8:32 pm

    Better to elect Walking on the chance he’d vote pro-life, than to vote in a way that increasing Warnock’s changes of holding his seat.

    whembly (b770f8)

  94. Better to “own the libs”, than the let the libs run the government.

    When “own the libs” is used, it usually means their arguments have been eviscerated.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  95. With all of the lies he has been found to have told, why do you believe he will follow through on this, or any other claims?

    He’s as honest as the day is long… and Brett Kavanaugh. 😉

    DCSCA (badee4)

  96. The party didn’t give a damn about Trump’s ‘pu–y tape’; it isn’t going to sweat spin-and-go-for broken-field-running-Walker.

    DCSCA (badee4)

  97. Better to elect Walking on the chance he’d vote pro-life, than to vote in a way that increasing Warnock’s changes of holding his seat.

    And he would be one more vote to convict Biden and Mayorkas after they are impeached.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  98. Listen… I appreciate the principled stance some posters have articulated here.

    I certainly try to live up to it as well.

    But I admit to looking at the bigger picture where not supporting a flawed Republicans leads to a Dem majority that has real world, painful consequences legislatively and to the judiciary.

    I mean, in this last term 48 of 50 Dems voted to nuke the filibuster. They’ve threatened/voted to pack the Supreme Court, trash our voting laws, further destroy our economy, and so many other ridiculous/harmful plans.

    Vote them out. That’s what is important.

    Deal with the other problems later.

    At minimum, pick the least worst option that you can stomach pulling the lever for and, if you still can’t pull the lever, that’s fine. Just don’t question people’s “morals” or “principles” for picking the least worst options.

    whembly (b770f8)

  99. @99

    And he would be one more vote to convict Biden and Mayorkas after they are impeached.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/6/2022 @ 12:33 pm

    Don’t threaten me with a good time here buddy!

    whembly (b770f8)

  100. @102
    They won’t get to 60, but the impeachment process itself should send a message… hopefully.

    whembly (b770f8)

  101. I doubt Walker would vote any way except what the MAGA leadership wants. He doesn’t have the intellectual depth to go his own way.

    If you want MAGA, he’ll vote MAGA. Just don’t ask him to live MAGA.

    Appalled (690fd4)

  102. Appalled (690fd4) — 10/6/2022 @ 12:51 pm

    I doubt Walker would vote any way except what the MAGA leadership wants.

    MAGA might not last 6 years. Say, rather, he would be expected not to vote differently than how about 40 Republican Senators do, if they vote the same way. He doesn’t know anything, anyway, so even if he wanted to he wouldn’t know what to do.

    Just don’t ask him to live MAGA.

    But I do think he’s being slandered on this point. The problem is he can’t deny it without making himself look worse. (paying her for hard luck stories)

    All that’s been established is that he knew this girl (the undated Get Well card, where his signature is presumably not a forgery) and that they probably had a relationship (the $700 check)

    It’s not been established that he even knew there was an abortion, still less that he consented to it, or paid for it.

    The check is dated after the date of the abortion, and isn’t it for too much if it was meant to cover the cost of an abortion? And did it cost her money?

    It’s not been established that that is the only check he ever wrote for her, or even claimed.

    The fact that the story has been circulating for some time, and was known to the Herschel Walker campaign staff, means that news outlets were reluctant to run with it.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  103. whembly (b770f8) — 10/6/2022 @ 12:50 pm

    They won’t get to 60,

    To remove fromm office they need two thirds of those voting, or 67 out of 100 (68 out of 102 and 66 out of 99) , not 60 (60 is the revised 1970s number to break a filibuster

    but the impeachment process itself should send a message… .

    Yes, the limited appetite for it on vague grounds of maladministration.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  104. Whembly, I’m not questioning people’s motives for picking the least bad. I’m questioning them because of the clear defense of what he did.

    Again, have any prominent right wing leaders called what he did Murder and while they condemn that they feel he’s the least bad?

    Seems like it’s about minimizing, equivocation, and justifying.

    Which would be consistent with something that’s undesirable, but not that big a deal. Like cheating on your taxes, screwing your business partner or leaving your wife for a younger woman.

    Time123 (d48eed)

  105. @107

    Whembly, I’m not questioning people’s motives for picking the least bad. I’m questioning them because of the clear defense of what he did.

    Again, have any prominent right wing leaders called what he did Murder and while they condemn that they feel he’s the least bad?

    Seems like it’s about minimizing, equivocation, and justifying.

    Which would be consistent with something that’s undesirable, but not that big a deal. Like cheating on your taxes, screwing your business partner or leaving your wife for a younger woman.

    Time123 (d48eed) — 10/6/2022 @ 1:39 pm

    Again, these are allegations, not equivocal evidence.

    Furthermore, and I say this with feelings, as someone who’s in the pro-life movement, I have to encourage someone like Walker to change his mind to be more pro-life, even if the allegations are true, and hope that hope that he would vote pro-life during his turn going forth.

    I’m not going to badger him now, and call him a murderer anymore than I would of a woman who has had an abortion and is now pro-life.

    Our movement will always extend enough grace for folks to be part of the pro-life movement. We want to make it EASIER for these folks to join our movement, not harder (by calling them murderers).

    Walker is an extremely flawed candidate whereby GOP primary voters are really making it harder for the national GOP party to regain control.

    But, he’s the candidate. And frankly, he’s a much better Senator than Warnock will ever be.

    If you want better candidates, stop sitting on your ass and actively participate in the electoral process. Encourage like-minded people in your circle to be more engaged too.

    whembly (b770f8)

  106. #108 It’s not terribly important for this discussion, but Warnock is the incumbent, not Walker.

    (Incidentally, assuming the Wikipedia article is broadly correct, some of the charges against Warnock that have been made in comments here are . . . dubious. For example:

    Warnock lives in Atlanta.[84] He married Oulèye Ndoye in a public ceremony on February 14, 2016; the couple had held a private ceremony in January.[9][85] They have two children. The couple separated in November 2019, and their divorce was finalized in 2020.[13]

    In March 2020, Ndoye accused Warnock of running over her foot with his car during a verbal argument. Warnock denied the accusation, and medical professionals found no signs of injury.

    Jim Miller (85fd03)

  107. Walker is fully committed to right to life, unlike Evan McMullin in Utah, who when he ran for president in 2016 said he was more sure to appoint Supreme Court justices who would overturn Roe v Wade than Donald Trump (according to his opponent, Mike Lee) and now has become the de facto Democratic candidate and does not dare differ with them on anything important. He equivocates on what party he would caucus with, and tried to say neither,

    https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meetthepressblog/mcmullin-stresses-independence-says-wont-caucus-either-party-wins-utah-rcna37076

    https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2022/9/26/23368950/opinion-mike-lee-evan-mcmullin-not-caucusing

    If he does not caucus with either party, how des he get on any committees?

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  108. I think Wayne Morse (of Oregon) did this for two years.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  109. 107… ALL will be revealed.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  110. Walker’s just given an interview addressing this matter:

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/herschel-walker-claims-girlfriend-identity-lying-abortion/story?id=91348349

    I’d reserve judgment, and see if any further evidence surfaces.

    Andrew Hyman (50c293)


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