Patterico's Pontifications

7/5/2022

Brief Update on Highland Park Shooting

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:34 am



[guest post by Dana]

After the horrific shooting at the 4th of July parade in Highland Park, Deputy Chief Christopher Covelli of Lake County Sheriffs office said this morning that the shooter’s guns had been legally purchased:

The suspect bought the rifle used in the attack in Illinois, and it appeared to have been purchased legally, Chief Covelli said. He also bought a second rifle that was found in his mother’s car, which he was driving when he was taken into custody on Monday evening, the chief said.

We now know that the shooter had posted a number of disturbing videos with violent imagery under the under the pseudonym Awake the Rapper. However, it doesn’t appear that they raised any red flags. Also, authorities said this morning that the gunman planned the attack several weeks in advance. And as it so often goes, the gunman’s relatives never saw any signs that would cause concern:

The suspect’s uncle, Paul A. Crimo, was “heartbroken” to learn his nephew was believed to be responsible for Monday’s shooting, telling CNN,” There were no signs that I saw that would make him do this.”

The suspect lived in an apartment behind a house in Highwood, Illinois, owned by his father, said Paul Crimo, who also lives at the house. He last saw his nephew Sunday evening, he said, sitting on a recliner in the house and looking on his computer.

“Everything was as normal,” he said.

To his knowledge, Crimo did not have a job, Paul Crimo told CNN, though he worked at Panera Bread before the Covid-19 pandemic. Paul Crimo said he had never seen the suspect engage in violence or concerning behavior. He didn’t know of his nephew’s political views, either, describing him as a “quiet” person.

“He’s usually on his own. He’s a lonely, quiet person. He keeps everything to himself.”

Highland Park Mayor Nancy Rotoring who knew the gunman years ago, expressed shock at what occurred:

Rotering knew the suspect years ago, when she was his Cub Scout pack leader, she said, telling CNN, “Many years ago, he was just a little boy, a quiet little boy that I knew.”

“It breaks my heart. I see this picture and through the tattoos, I see the little boy,” she said. “I don’t know what got him to this point.”

Covelli also said that they “have been “in discussions” with the gunman and have still not “developed a motive” for the shooting. Law enforcement believe the shooting was random and no specific groups were targeted. Also, the gunman is believed to have acted by himself, with no one else involed.

Tragically, this wasn’t the only shooting weekend:

It also occurred during a weekend that saw at least 57 people shot in the Windy City, nine fatally, NBC Chicago reported

In New York City, 13 people were shot and three killed in six incidents across the city, NBC New York reported.

In Kansas City, Missouri, six people were shot in three separate incidents overnight Monday and two people died in the violence, according to the Kansas City Star. A shooting following a concert at the T-Mobile Center near the Power and Light District left four people wounded just after midnight. Two others were shot in separate shootings in the city, the newspaper reported.

In Richmond, Virginia, six people — four men and two women — were shot early Monday on West Broad Street, NBC affiliate WWBT of Richmond reported.

In Haltom City, Texas, three officers and one civilian were injured in a shooting Saturday night in the 5700 block of Diamond Oaks Drive North, according to the city’s police department. The three officers, who suffered non-life threatening injuries, were later said to be stable. The suspect died by a self-inflected gunshot wound, police said.

One person was killed and four others were injured in Kenosha, Wisconsin, when gunfire erupted around 10:20 p.m. in the 6300 block of 25th Avenue, according to the Kenosha Police Department.

In Indianapolis, an 8-year-old girl and a 10-year-old boy playing in a bounce house were shot during a Fourth of July cookout near East 38th Street and North Arlington Avenue just before 7 p.m., NBC affiliate WTHR reported, citing police.

–Dana

61 Responses to “Brief Update on Highland Park Shooting”

  1. Absolutely tragic. Absolutely frustrating and exhausting.

    Dana (1225fc)

  2. Dana, this from last night as well:

    2 police officers shot following Philadelphia fireworks show

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-officers-shot-philadelphia-fireworks-show/story?id=86215640

    Got off the phone an hour ago w/my victims rights friend; GoFundMe accounts and other aid services are in the process of being set up for the Highland Park victims and their families. So help is in work. But my friend said those coordinating efforts are getting very, very fatigued; they’re still dealing w/t aftermath of Uvalde and fielding Buffalo issues as well– and that’s just over the past 8 or 10 weeks. And the greatest concern are ‘copycats.’ They fear and expect it. These armed kids are lost to these dark, social media sites. But the HP presser w/authorities this morning was professional, thorough and quite informative.

    DCSCA (d6e8b5)

  3. The shooter entered a synagogue during Passover. The facility had a security personnel and he was told to leave.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  4. Of course…..

    Highland Park parade shooter was “known to law enforcement”
    ……..
    It would seem that all of the signals were there and had been for several months at least. But what, if anything, could anyone have done to stop him? Thus far, the only thing officials are saying is that Crimo was “known to law enforcement.” But there is no confirmation that he had a criminal record that would have prevented him from purchasing a firearm, though that may come to light later…….

    ……..Would his rap videos have been sufficient cause for the police to come to disarm him? While investigating unrelated stories in the past, I’ve had cause to peruse some of the more violent rap videos that are constantly making the rounds. Many of them openly lionize the idea of shooting the police, rival gang members, or simply random pedestrians. Can you imagine what would happen if the police began randomly showing up and searching all of those rappers for weapons, particularly when the majority of the singers are Black? The moral outrage would come in a fast and furious fashion.

    ……If performing a song with a violent theme is enough of a reason to deprive someone of their rights, then we are in a new era, no matter what color your skin is. And there simply aren’t enough police on the payroll to monitor every maniac with a violence-themed YouTube channel 24/7…….

    Police have now said that the rifle was legally purchased.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  5. Gunfire at Boom Island Park in Minneapolis wounds 8 people, leaving ‘several in critical condition’

    ‘Gunfire at a park along the Mississippi River near downtown Minneapolis wounded eight people, some of them with critical injuries, officials said Tuesday.’

    https://www.startribune.com/gunfire-at-boom-island-park-in-minneapolis-wounds-8-people-leaving-several-in-critical-condition/600187746/

    DCSCA (6017d2)

  6. Parade shooter was a maggot supporter. Are new 4th of july tradition mass shootings to celebrate the 4th. The parade should of had only one door! Turd Crud down in cancun.

    asset (42d6b1)

  7. 3 dead, 7 wounded after shooting at July Fourth block party in Gary, Indiana, police say

    GARY, Ind. – Gunfire during a July Fourth block party in northwestern Indiana left three people dead and seven wounded early Tuesday, police said.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/07/05/gary-indiana-july-fourth-shooting/7812663001/

    DCSCA (bba2af)

  8. 7th victim dies from Highland Park parade mass shooting

    A seventh victim died Tuesday from injuries sustained in Monday’s mass shooting at a Fourth of July parade in Highland Park, Illinois, police said.- abcnews.com

    DCSCA (bba2af)

  9. And as it so often goes, the gunman’s relatives never saw any signs that would cause concern:

    If they had been asked to personally insure with their own money that the guns would not be used in a crime, they might have been reluctant.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  10. In other shootings, in Akron Ohio, a man who worked as a door dash deliveryman, whose fiancee had died a month ago (they don’t say how – correction the Daily Mail says it was a hit and run accident and her name was
    Jaymeisha Beasley) and who kept a wedding ring with himself — and a gun – was stopped by police, possibly pretextually, for two violations. He may have been wearing a ski mask all the time.

    He started driving away. At one point he fired the gun at his pursuers. His car got stopped, and he got out of the car, ran and then turned around. Eight policemen fired 60 bullets into him. His gun was left in the car. The man was black. as was one of the policemen. All sorts of protests. Nobody wants to listen.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/03/us/akron-police-shooting-jayland-walker-video.html

    In another incident. in a suburb of Louisville Kentucky there was a 49-year old man with a warrant out for his arrest. They no longer do no knock warrants (a proper one would be done at 3 am to maximize the chances he would be asleep

    He had prepared and had guns ready to go all over the place. Two policemen and a police dog were killed. Actually a third policeman, the dog handler, died later, too.

    https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2022/07/05/floyd-county-ky-police-shooting-what-know-about-allen-shootout/7809509001

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  11. Good heavens:

    Law enforcement reveals that there was a Sept. 2019 incident in which Robert Crimo threatened to “kill everyone,” police “removed 16 knives, a dagger and a sword from Crimo’s home” but there was “no probable cause for arrest” and no complaints were signed by the victims.

    Dana (1225fc)

  12. It looks like he was a ticking time bomb. Scared off for some time by the fact that to go ahead it would ruin or end his life, or might be unsuccessful. We don’t know what to do about ticking time bombs.

    Well, actually we do: You conduct a sting operation.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  13. @12 Their are thousands of ticking time bombs out their and the jails are full now and mental hospitals would fill up quickly.

    asset (b4e599)

  14. It’s even worse than that, Dana.

    The Illinois State Police just told @axios Chicago that Crimo’s father co-signed for his FOID card that he received even after threatening to kill his family and having his weapons confiscated. @pksmid all of which was reported to the ISP.

    I keep asking after these mass shootings by these young men this: Where are the parents. Crimo Jr. clearly and blatantly dropped the ball, and now seven innocent humans are dead.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  15. Some parents like the idea of having a poorly trained pit bull as a child, think of it as a free don’t eff with us card.

    Chris Rock the punchee correctly stated to solve black crime, it would take “a civil war between black people and six letter word pluralized”. To solve this you need adult safe haven laws and willingness to engage in fillicide. No tribe is willing to reduce it’s sheer numbers (outside of pink hat brigadiers).

    Asset, with no cash bail, COVID releases, lax prosecution from the left and well meaning but ineffective sentencing and treatment reform on the right, there is plenty of room, maybe not so many guards.

    urbanleftbehind (d5b707)

  16. 2 year old boy found bloody on the street both his parents were shot dead by gun man.

    asset (4a188b)

  17. His father liked a tweet about the Second amendment on May 27, after the Uvalde shooting.

    It seems like he was stopped in 2019 – it only caused him to switch targets (from his family) and plan more meticulously,

    He may have also contemplated a synagogue – he went into a Chabad place on Passover and was thought to be acting strangely and was told to leave. Maybe that meant he couldn’t case the place so he abandoned that idea. His plans for the parade went back at least ten months. Where were they written or posted?

    DCSCA says he was an admirer (or should that be envious of?) Lee Harvey Oswald. His modus operendi had some elements of that – but he also must have borrowed ideas from other sources.

    Sammy Finkelnan (b7dc9b)

  18. 8th Highland Park victim has died.

    DCSCA (f4a948)

  19. @17. Presser this morning says the numbers 4, 7, 47, or 74 are part of motivation- something to do with his music.

    Echoes of Jack D. Ripper.

    DCSCA (f4a948)

  20. @18. Media error; Fox News retracts report on additional death; blames staffer for miscounting.

    DCSCA (f4a948)

  21. The police came to the Crimo home twice in 2019.

    The first time in April, when there was concern that he had attempted suicide (Q. Is it always prudent to prevent it?) I think they came a week after the police were first called, or a week after the event – someone who knew him called but evidently not a family member and the police were told this was being handled by mental health professionals.

    The second time in September, 2019 in response to a report that he had said he wanted to kill his entire family, and they found 16 knives and a dagger and a sword, and the police seized them, but they gave them back later when his father claimed the knives were his and he was just storing them there. I guess he made sure after that that his son did not get them.

    He was running for mayo to unseat the incumbent, Nancy Rotering. and failed badly. The mayor also knew him from when he was a Cub Scout and she was his leader.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  22. Echoes of Jack D. Ripper.

    He called himself “Awake the Rapper” Claimed to have made lots of money.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  23. Is the Oswald connection the fact that he took a picture of himself with a reproduction of a newspaper headline about Jack Ruby killing Oswald attached to the wall behind him?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/05/us/highland-park-suspect-family.html

    Mr. Crimo’s music videos seem to reference mass shootings. One video includes cartoon images of a gunman pointing a large rifle, and of other figures spurting blood. Later in the video, the gunman lies in a pool of blood near police cars.

    Another video shows Mr. Crimo with a newspaper displayed on the wall behind him carrying a headline about the killing of Lee Harvey Oswald, who assassinated President Kennedy in 1963. Mr. Crimo, who identified himself as “Awake the Rapper,” sits on a bed in front of the newspaper. The word “Awake” was tattooed over his left eyebrow.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  24. I’ve been doing some thinking about how to deal with guns, red flags, and how to maximize the RKBA while protecting as much as possible against people like Crimo or the Uvalde shooter.

    First, it is clear that saying that every citizen who has not been convicted of certain crimes can fill their basement with guns and ammo isn’t working all that well.

    Second, the idea of “red flag” laws seems unworkable, as Crimo was waving red flags all over the place, and yet…

    Third, any regulation needs to be particularly targeted at the types of dangers we’ve seen — notably unstable youth, incels, and generally the type of people who are attracted to violence and/or violent groups and have great problems living in society.

    Fourth, the regulation cannot be so broad as to catch more than a small minority, nor can it be easily abused by authorities who would like to restrict gun rights in general.

    I’m coming to believe that some kind of licensing regime is necessary, and that regime needs to be more than just checking past behavior (although that is important, too). Something proactive, like a psychological vetting, to weed out those who no one in their right mind wants anywhere near a gun.

    This license would be required not only to purchase guns and ammo of any kind, but to possess them as well, and would also serve as a carry permit. Training in gun laws and handling might be part of the test. We do this with cars, and try to weed out the irresponsible, incapable or reckless. We can do this with guns.

    The problem with this is, of course, that some would use it to over-restrict the right, to deny it to people they don’t like, or several other forms of abuse, so a system that allows both appeals and removal of officials who are abusive is needed.

    This might never work, but we really need to take a hard look at how to prevent assh0les from getting and using guns, while maximizine the ability of responsible citizens to exercise their RKBA. If we do nothing, the situation could get so bad that the 2nd Amendment won’t stand. And that would be a pity.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  25. Has anyone ever flown to Israel on El Al? Crimo would be someone they would never let on the plane.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  26. @24 The people who want to ban guns think anyone who wants them shouldn’t be allowed near them. There’s not much of a middle ground to be found.

    Everything you list is subjective. Who decides which youth are unstable? Aren’t they all? What other rights require a test? Voting doesn’t. Free speech doesn’t. Who decides who is responsible enough to exercise their 2a rights?

    If you had an answer for those issues you could do a lot more than decide who gets to own guns. You’d have a really good system for deciding who’s not going to commit crimes and who needs to be locked up. Whoever can figure that out has got to be a special type of person. Of course you’ll also need special people to find those special people.

    And for that matter, who says these irresponsible people don’t have a right to defend themselves? Because that’s what you’re really deciding. And that just means that people who pass the test are citizens and the people who don’t aren’t.

    The gun banning crowd isn’t really interested in stopping gun violence so most of this will only be of interest to them to the degree that it restricts a law abiding person from defending themselves and makes them more dependent on whichever social construct they favor. But they’ll probably really like this idea of deciding who gets to exercise their rights.

    From a practical standpoint though, you could try some version of the Chinese social credit system. There are some other practical examples but mentioning them might be counterproductive.

    The real problem is that we’re a society with several types of cancer. It’s horrible on young people and is especially difficult on young men. Until you’ve got a plan for that this other stuff is just checking the teeth from the wrong end of the horse.

    But these are the inevitable results of secular humanism, materialism, and post-modernism. We were warned that we couldn’t build our own moral codes from scratch and that if we tried we wouldn’t like the results.

    frosty (feb24c)

  27. “But these are the inevitable results of secular humanism, materialism, and post-modernism. We were warned that we couldn’t build our own moral codes from scratch and that if we tried we wouldn’t like the results.”

    It’s the inevitable result of the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a few. It’s the boomer generation pulling up the ladder behind them.

    Davethulhu (0b1e86)

  28. @frosty@26 It sounds like you are saying that mass shootings are the cost of the 2nd amendment and that nothing can be done about it.

    For what it’s worth, here are my suggestions from one of the Uvalde posts:

    Universal background checks that have to come back before a weapon can be sold, none of this skip the background check and sell the gun if it doesn’t come back after 3 days stuff.

    Fingerprint trigger locks that can only be changed at a point of purchase. I can open my laptop and my phone with my finger print and no one else can, why shouldn’t it be the same for a gun? This would prevent someone from taking their parent’s guns and straw buyers. The tech should be small enough at this point to fit on a weapon.

    A waiting period.

    A safety class for overall weapons usage that includes information on mental health risks and a personal self eval and family eval to help the person actually stop and consider the mental health of themselves and their family members.

    A tailored class for each type of weapon being purchased.

    A required signed statement that they do not, to their knowledge, have anyone living in their household that has mental health risk factors for suicide, explosive anger, hallucinations, paranoia, domestic violence, etc and acknowledgement of liability should they know they have a family member with those risk factors and the gun is used by that family member for illegal violent purposes that they are liable for any damages caused by that person.

    These wouldn’t prevent all shootings, but they could prevent some of them and I don’t think they interfere with the 2nd amendment.

    Nic (896fdf)

  29. “Everything was normal”
    Situation Normal All F-d Up
    This is why going after Hunter Biden and his Fathers laying about his business is only moderately interesting to most voters. Dad covering for his dud son? Normal
    Then onward from Hunter to statements made by the moms of killers. School shooter or urban gangland, not important. Mom will want you to know he was a good son, a good father to his kids (at plus or minus 18 years old), was about to enroll in Junior College to pursue a career in criminal justice.

    steveg (9da5a4)

  30. Fingerprint trigger locks that can only be changed at a point of purchase. I can open my laptop and my phone with my finger print and no one else can, why shouldn’t it be the same for a gun?

    No one has done this because fingerprint sensors are notoriously fickle. The one on my laptop is OK, the USB dongle thing on my desktop usually needs about 4 tries. The one on my phone doesn’t always work.

    In neither case does it get wet, muddy, greasy or otherwise impaired. I might be wearing gloves. IF YOU NEED IT TO WORK it cannot fail. Like 999 times out of 1000 first try, with a similar rate of refusal with the wrong fingerprint.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  31. A psychological screening of nearly any kind would have caught Crimo, and probably the Uvalde shooter. I do get what frosty is saying about no other right needs testing, but this right also includes the idea of regulation. It doesn’t mention that about speech or self-incrimination.

    I also get the issue with authorities trying to bend “regulation” into harassment. But we’ve had driving tests for a century now and I’m pretty sure that the vast majority passes. Sure, it’s called a “privilege”, but it’s a near universal one. Most people go their entire lives without having it even suspended. A licensing scheme for guns that was similarly weighted toward the citizen could be made to work.

    You would also need some severe penalties for refusniks with guns.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  32. Although I admit that Nic is trying to prove what would happen if the regulators slipped the leash.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  33. Here’s a thoughtful piece on Bruen by Randy Barnett, in which he points out some internal tension in Bruen, and wonders exactly what Thomas is thinking.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  34. There are no rights only privileges that have to be enforced. You may be willing to pay the cost of the 2nd amendment with dead children now the number one cause of death in U.S. A majority may not. Remember wimp liberals like Biden will not be the only ones in power in democrat party soon.

    asset (3f6f9a)

  35. @27 I can’t tell if you think you’re saying something different

    frosty (feb24c)

  36. #34

    You realize that your last emanation flies in the face of founding principles of this country, right? You know, the whole we are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights thing in the Declaration of Independence?

    Appalled (4460f3)

  37. “There are no rights only privileges that have to be enforced”

    Huh? Start over

    AJ_Liberty (c82e21)

  38. @28 I’m not sure how you could get that from my post. I said that you’re trying to solve the wrong problem.

    Your suggestions would only apply to a small subset of the mass shootings and it wouldn’t apply at all to the larger issue of gun violence.

    For a fingerprint reader; I can’t recall a recent mass shooting where the shooter’s fingerprint wouldn’t have unlocked the gun. Maybe one? But what this does is keep people from selling guns as they please, probably an intended side effect. It also prevents all of the family members from using a weapon in a self defense situation, also probably an intended side effect, but that means everyone needs their own weapons. That pushes up the cost of self defense, also probably an intended side effect. So, this turns into a class issue where only people able to pay for it can defend themselves

    For fingerprint scanners; your also wrong on the technology. They are reliable enough or small enough to be integrated into a weapon. Besides the scanner itself, they need a power source, electronics, and a mechanical interconnect. This is something that only works in sci-fi movies.

    I don’t think any of the recent mass shooters slipped a background check. Did I miss one?

    Classes are just a way to limit this by socio-economic class as well. Only people able to pay and who have time to attend classes can meet this requirement. This is another fu to poor people, people working multiple jobs, etc.

    We’ve already tried waiting periods.

    On the liability; if you could prove negligence as a civil matter people would be doing that already. You don’t need a new law for that. If you’re talking criminal negligence you’re in a worse situation. This is a non-starter.

    So, no, this wouldn’t stop the mass shootings and it would infringe on 2a. And you’re proving my point that this isn’t really about gun violence overall.

    frosty (feb24c)

  39. @31 A licensing scheme like cars wouldn’t stop gun violence for the same reason drivers licensing doesn’t stop dui. As you said, most people pass their drivers test. It’s not a high bar. It doesn’t screen for crazy or homicidal or even poor judgement.

    A gun test along this lines would be fairly perfunctory. Can you load the weapon. Can you safely operate the weapon. Do you understand basic muzzle safety rules. I’m not saying that is a bad idea. It just doesn’t have anything to do with gun violence.

    frosty (feb24c)

  40. “It’s the inevitable result of the concentration of wealth and power in the hands of a few. It’s the boomer generation pulling up the ladder behind them.”

    There’s a sense of hopelessness with many of our young people… limited opportunities… a lot of negative impacts of globalization, lousy public “education”, and poor parenting. It’s easy and cheap to blame it on generational issues.

    Colonel Haiku (a7b64d)

  41. @31 This also isn’t really what regulated means in the context of the 2a. It would be more correct to read it as synonymous with ordered or trained. Reading it as restricted isn’t consistent with the bill of rights overall or the historical context.

    The original intent was that the ordinary citizen would be able to defend themselves, their state, or the country. Therefore they needed to be familiar with firearms. On top of that a large standing army was seen as a threat to liberty.

    If you wanted to argue that the 2a implies a mandatory national service you’d be more correct. But we butcher the 2a now because we want a large standing military because most people don’t want to be burdened with some sort of national service.

    But even if you argued for that it wouldn’t mean individuals didn’t have a 2a right to firearms.

    frosty (feb24c)

  42. One idea might be to have a tiered system for different types of weapons. All revolvers, shotguns, and bolt-action rifles do not require licensing for home defense. These may not be optimal based on preference, but they do afford self protection without any burden except for a standard background check. All semi-automatic pistols and rifles will require licensing. Perhaps there is different licensing for semi-automatic pistols versus rifles based on muzzle velocity. Licenses will need to be regularly renewed. Maybe there is some screening enforced when there are multiple weapon purchases or significant ammunition buys.

    So nothing is prohibited and there is no additional tax, but there might be a different waiting period and background check based on the license. If you believe that you should have comparable firepower to the police, then you must secure the relevant license. If the states maintain the licenses, this at least provides some measure of protection against federal confiscation.

    Personal carry would be limited to revolvers and pistols with similar licensing as above. Nothing is perfect but there should be some recognition that with greater muzzle energy and greater magazine size should come more oversight.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  43. Firearm regulation fantasy camp. The trend (at both the state and federal level) is for less regulation, not more. And the courts are beginning to say that just because you are 18-21 you don’t lose your full 2nd Amendment rights.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  44. @43 A lot of people are trying very hard to forget that last few years. The routine decimation of all institutions we used to trust doesn’t leave a firm foundation for a plan to “regulate” the 2a.

    frosty (ae8356)

  45. @42 What’s the point of a license scheme that doesn’t prohibit anything? Granted you described a system that would prohibit some things and then claimed it doesn’t. So, maybe the better question is which is it?

    frosty (ae8356)

  46. frosty (feb24c) — 7/7/2022 @ 8:21 am

    This is a very good comment. If it errs in any way, it errs on the side of freedom and the plain meaning of the Constitution. I am all for that.

    felipe (484255)

  47. @46, how does that interpretation square with laws restricting private access to automatic weapons and destructive devices?

    Why couldn’t we expand federal firearms laws to treat high capacity weapons with a sufficient muzzle energy the same way we do automatic weapons? We can debate where to draw those specific lines but that doesn’t impact the general idea.

    A fully automatic .17 cal is less dangerous to a human then a semiautomatic.223 but the .223 is legal for most anyone to own and the .17 is highly regulated.

    The issue with these mass shootings is that mentally unwell young men have ready access to weapons designed to efficiently kill a large number of people. That seems like it should be a policy problem we can solve.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  48. @39: Well, after you redefine what I’m asking for you then prove it doesn’t work. Missing MY post entirely.

    I would want to see a basic psych screening done along with competence. A glance at social media might help here. If that screening raised questions, a more in-depth interview with a shrink would be in order. Crimo would not have passed these. The Uvalde shooter would not have passed these.

    Driver’s licenses don’t catch drunks because they don’t try to catch drunks. If they simply required a breathalyzer at the time you took the written test, you’d catch quite a few alcoholics, who are often unable to refrain from drinking even when they know they are going to be tested.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  49. But even if you argued for that it wouldn’t mean individuals didn’t have a 2a right to firearms.

    I believe it does. But we have laws NOW that take gun ownership out of the hands of felons, drug addicts and crazy people. All I’m suggestion is we be proactive about those restrictions.

    I just don’t think that turning a blind eye to crazy people getting guns makes the 2nd more sustainable.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  50. Kevin, Your idea might work. Anything that increases the friction in a mentally ill your man from getting a firearm optimized to kill a lot of people should reduce the harm. It’s a logical flaw to say that any idea not certain to completely fix the problem has no value, but is worth talking about the trade off.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  51. Randy Barnett on getting a DC carry license after Heller

    After 2017, I was entitled to a license to carry outside my home the handgun that I had a constitutional right to buy and own thanks to District of Columbia v. Heller — provided I met certain requirements. I had to pay an application fee of $75. I had to submit my application in person at the Metropolitan Police Department headquarters and be photographed and fingerprinted at an additional cost of $35. I had to pass a federal background check. I had to enroll in and pay for an approved firearms training course, which included 16 hours of classroom study of D.C. gun laws as well as the law governing the use of deadly force, plus another two hours of range instruction. In 2018, the course cost $250 plus $20 for the range fee. The monetary cost of the license amounted to $380. This was in addition to the $125 tax I paid to D.C. on the purchase of my handgun, which brought the total regulatory cost to $505. Since the course took 18 hours to complete, I took it on a Saturday and a Sunday so as not to lose two days of work.

    There being no gun ranges in the District of Columbia, my course was taught in Virginia. The instructor was African American, and most of the other students in the course were members of underrepresented groups, which is unsurprising given the demographics of D.C. Since it is doubtful that any other Georgetown professor has a concealed-carry license, I suppose I too was a member of an underrepresented group.

    Every two years, I must renew the license. If I miss renewing within the 30-day window before my permit expires, I have to start all over. So, two years later, I had to pay another $75 fee and complete a recertification class consisting of four hours of training, and two hours of range training from an MPD-certified firearms training instructor, which cost $160. I can afford all this, of course, though I cannot say the same for all other citizens of D.C.

    https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/06/a-minor-impact-on-gun-laws-but-a-potentially-momentous-shift-in-constitutional-method/

    Some of this smacks of harassment, or at least unnecessary barriers. Further, it seems unlikely to detect the irresponsible or the evil. It may detect the crazy through interaction, or it might not. It will keep poor people from a carry license, which may be the real point.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  52. None of this stops illegal gun possession, of course. The haphazard and often irresponsible enforcement of gun possession laws needs to be examined, and corrected, before we go off and decide what new laws will work.

    I believe I read that Gascon is turning a blind eye to gang members with illegal guns. If so, that’s a problem.

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  53. Police share photo of Highland Park suspect’s gun

    Chicago police have released a photograph of the weapon used in the Highland Park mass shooting on 4 July, where seven people were killed and dozens injured. On Monday evening, police arrested 22-year-old Robert “Bobby” Crimo after an hours-long manhunt around the city north of Chicago.

    A spokesperson for the Lake County Major Crime Task Force said the suspect used a rifle “similar to an AR-15” from atop a commercial building and fired into a crowd that had gathered for the parade in Highland Park. On Wednesday night, the police released a photograph of the weapon, reported News Nation.

    According to prosecutors, the suspect fired more than 80 rounds, reloading three times, before fleeing down a fire escape while disguised as a woman and melting into the crowd. Authorities added that while he went down the fire escape, the weapon fell out of his bag in an alley.

    The rifle was found with three 30-round high-capacity magazines and 83 spent shell casings around the scene.https://www.yahoo.com/video/police-share-photo-highland-park-050132706.html

    DCSCA (73d2c2)

  54. Not quite my idea on licensing, but it does focus on licensing all semi-automatic weapons. He goes in a different direction of not associating the license with a specific gun or guns….meaning, no gun registries. So you are either licensed or not licensed to own a semi-automatic rifle and the man doesn’t need to know how many. I also tend to disagree with his idea of private sales and no formal background checks…he may discuss how a licensed “semi” could sell to an unlicensed “semi” unlawfully, but I don’t think he has much of a solution….

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/04/28/gun-nuts-guide-to-gun-control-federal-semi-automatic-firearm-license-218072/

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  55. What’s the point of a license scheme that doesn’t prohibit anything? Granted you described a system that would prohibit some things and then claimed it doesn’t. So, maybe the better question is which is it?

    Licensing? Just enforce mandatory Militia service; there’s your license. As learned historians will tell you, t’was a requirement by law for all able-bodied males of the ye olde colonial period, when the Articles of Confederation were quilled and the afterthought added to the second try Constitution when the AoC faltered.

    DCSCA (73d2c2)

  56. That’s an interesting idea that would likely have a positive impact

    Time123 (17a808)

  57. Crimo did not have a sort of (is respect the word?) for the number 47. He had a thing for the numbers 4 and 7. The slaughter took place of July 4 – which is 7/4.

    He probably fell deeper into the rabbit hole with his music. Only a pause in his listening to his music could have gotten off that track.

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  58. DCSCA (73d2c2) — 7/7/2022 @ 12:01 pm

    t’was a requirement by law for all able-bodied males of the ye olde colonial period, when the Articles of Confederation were quilled and the afterthought added to the second try Constitution when the AoC faltered.

    The Articles said this about the militia, which should clarify the true meaning of the Second amendment:

    Included in Article VI:

    https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/articles-of-confederation

    …. but every state shall always keep up a well regulated and disciplined militia, sufficiently armed and accounted, and shall provide and constantly have ready for use, in public stores, a due number of field pieces and tents, and a proper quantity of arms, ammunition, and camp equipage.

    That’s the “right of the people to keep and bear arms”

    It says people and and not states, to include Vermont, and Tennessee and mostly not organized areas. Regulated means regulated like a watch.
    The militia is what is now called the National Guard. It’s the exact same thing.

    The National Guard Association after the Civil War, tried to claim every man should have a rifle. They got Congress to pass a non historical definition of militia with this business of an unorganized and an organized militia in 1903 (after getting the name changed in every state starting with New York in 1864 – or they traced it back to an informal name in 1864.)

    The law was called the Dick Act.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Act_of_1903

    Later the cause of the Second Amendment was taken over by the National Rifle Association

    Sammy Finkelman (1d215a)

  59. It’s the Daily Mail, but what they show tells me that ANY conversation with this guy would have gotten him declined as far as weapon purchases, if “sanity” was a criterion.

    Of course, it would all get perverted, and Crimo would get the license but no one who misgendered the hard-to-define inspecting-person would.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10991891/Highland-Park-shooter-posted-pics-teen-sex-doll-hanging-spouted-racist-posts.html

    Kevin M (eeb9e9)

  60. @frosty@38 It looks like your post is saying that nothing can really be done and if nothing can really be done then what is currently happening won’t change.

    A fingerprint scan would’ve stopped SandyHook. It would also prevent stolen guns from being used and children from shooting each other by accident with a parent’s gun (or using someone else’s gun to commit suicide). As far as the socio-economics, have you looked at the price of weapons lately?

    Nic (896fdf)

  61. That’s the “right of the people to keep and bear arms”

    Nice try, Sammy, From the AoC Article IV:

    ‘No vessels of war shall be kept up in time of peace, by any state, except such number only, as shall be deemed necessary by the united states, in congress assembled, for the defence of such state, or its trade; nor shall any body of forces be kept up, by any state, in time of peace, except such number only as, in the judgment of the united states, in congress assembled, shall be deemed requisite to garrison the forts necessary for the defence of such state; but every state shall always keep up a well regulated and disciplined militia, sufficiently armed and accounted, and shall provide and constantly have ready for use, in public stores, a due number of field pieces and tents, and a proper quantity of arms, ammunition, and camp equipage.

    No State shall engage in any war without the consent of the united States in congress assembled, unless such State be actually invaded by enemies, or shall have received certain advice of a resolution being formed by some nation of Indians to invade such State, and the danger is so imminent as not to admit of a delay till the united states in congress assembled, can be consulted: nor shall any state grant commissions to any ships or vessels of war, nor letters of marque or reprisal, except it be after a declaration of war by the united states in congress assembled, and then only against the kingdom or State, and the subjects thereof, against which war has been so declared, and under such regulations as shall be established by the united states in congress assembled, unless such state be infested by pirates, in which case vessels of war may be fitted out for that occasion, and kept so long as the danger shall continue, or until the united states in congress assembled shall determine otherwise.’

    You purposely clip/edit the intent; the right was to maintain a well regulated militia, not make sure everybody had a musket. And by law, colonial white men were required to own a musket to maintain that militia. Not just to ‘keep and bear arms.’ Jeez. Context of the times is everything.

    DCSCA (34805c)


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