Yet Another Overreaction to Innocuous and Commonplace Speech Touching on Race
Read this entire piece by Robby Soave:
Until last year, Daniel Elder—a 34-year-old musician who lives in Nashville, Tennessee—had a promising career ahead of him. The theme of the prize-winning composer’s work, truth through emotion, is evident across his catalogue of choral music, including his debut commercial album, The Heart’s Reflection.
Elder isn’t composing very much these days. And even if he were, no one in the industry is willing to buy his work. His publisher has blackballed him. Local choral directors refuse to program his music for fear of provoking a backlash. They won’t even let him sing in the choir.
His offense? Being dismayed by arson committed by protesters.
On May 30, around 1,000 peaceful protesters marched down the streets of Nashville as part of an “I Will Breathe” rally. But not everyone on the streets was peaceful: A group of activists joined the protest as it was drawing to a close and started smashing windows and spraying graffiti on the sides of buildings. They threw rocks at police cars, and eventually someone set the city’s historic courthouse on fire.
“The courthouse windows were smashed, its walls were spray painted with graffiti and fires were started inside the building, damaging a portion of the mayor’s office,” noted the Nashville Tennessean. “A plaque commemorating the civil rights movement in Nashville was destroyed.”
The destruction spooked Elder, who lived nearby and was thus under a city-wide curfew.
. . . .
Dismayed, disenchanted, and unable to sleep, Elder decided to delete his Instagram account. He penned one last farewell message, which was cross-posted to his Twitter and professional Facebook page: “Enjoy burning it all down, you well-intentioned, blind people. I’m done.”
And that’s all it took. The social media mob gathered, grabbed their virtual pitchforks and torches, and marched. It worked. His publisher wrote out an entire obsequious apology for him to deliver, full of the kind of absurd groveling and struggle-session platitudes we’ve all heard a million times before. Problem is, the guy refused to deliver it. Because he hadn’t done anything wrong. So his publisher — really the only game in town for his type of music — dumped him. He’s struggled since with mental health issues, inability to write, you name it.
The topic of race is impossible to discuss in this country. Anything you say, no matter how obviously true or inoffensive, can cause your life to be turned upside down in an instant. We have all seen the stories. This is just a particularly ridiculous example, but it’s hardly the only one.
I listened to a little of this guy’s music, linked in the article, and enjoyed it. I might buy his album.
Don’t worry someone will come along soon to explain that cancel culture isn’t a thing, speech has consequences, the market has spoken, something something private business, and that he just needs to make his own industry.
I’m wondering how you root out this sort of insanity.
Anyone who thinks
describes them needs to understand
In other news they’ve uncanceled Toobin and I think female journalists who were on his failure to turn off the video call are part of his welcoming committee.frosty (40e1bb) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:14 am
I am coming to think that the only way to prevent this kind of harassment, slander and mob action is to abandon internet anonymity. We rightly protect internet providers (at all levels) from responsibility for their customer’s acts, but this should be coupled with a duty to identify bad actors, given some minimal legal process.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:18 am
OT: ACA survives yet again, 7-2 on standing.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:23 am
There was a reason for anonymity in the Federalist Papers.Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:27 am
Small groups of activists sure can paint a horrible picture that tarnishes those who peacefully protest.
(Unless it is Jan 6)BuDuh (7bca93) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:27 am
(Unless it is Jan 6)
People who were photographed well away from the Capitol building have lost jobs and such.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:30 am
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:18 am
Removing anonymity won’t prevent this. It will only make it worse. The people canceling this guy don’t need to be anonymous because there aren’t any repercussions. In fact people on social media are most likely intentionally joining to signal to their peers.
Kids in college now are routinely pressured to speak out on a topic because not speaking out is approval.
Removing anonymity will only make it easier to cancel people and increase self-censorship.frosty (40e1bb) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:38 am
The Angry Man
by Phyllis McGinley (1905-1978)
The other day I chanced to meet
An angry man upon the street —
A man of wrath, a man of war,
A man who truculently bore
Over his shoulder, like a lance,
A banner labeled “Tolerance.”
And when I asked him why he strode
Thus scowling down the human road,
Scowling, he answered, “I am he
Who champions total liberty —
Intolerance being, ma’am, a state
No tolerant man can tolerate.
“When I meet rogues,” he cried, “who choose
To cherish oppositional views,
Lady, like this, and in this manner,
I lay about me with my banner
Till they cry mercy, ma’am.” His blows
Rained proudly on prospective foes.
Fearful, I turned and left him therenk (1d9030) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:42 am
Still muttering, as he thrashed the air,
“Let the Intolerant beware!”
It was his “friends” who betrayed him. We can say that the Instagram mob owed him simple courtesy, but not with a straight face. Mobs will be mobs. And since I’m in a quoting mood today:nk (1d9030) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:48 am
Removing anonymity will only make it easier to cancel people and increase self-censorship.
How does the elimination of anonymity help bullies? A few juicy damage suits might do wonders for behavior. In the real world there is the possibility of getting punched in the nose and this limits asshattery. But cowards can act out to their heart’s content behind internet anonymity.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:49 am
@8: It’s not uncommon to hear people say that they dislike judgemental people.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:51 am
The topic of race is impossible to discuss in this country.
As is guns. While living in the UK, as racial tensions exploded across America, it was a revelation to witness racial issues very much less a matter of daily angst. Which was surprising given the multi-cultural mix of the country. It certainly exists, but not near as prevalent a problem as in the U.S.– which had more to do w/their history of the Empire and absorbing subjects from same. Rather, the festering problem was rooted more in their rigid class system.
In America, w/a more fluid class structure, the issue falls in the means to move from one class to another– and the hitry of slavery, rather than Empire. Throughout the 1960s, the BBC had a famous and highly successful television comedy programme which routinely lampooned lingering racism and bigotry in British society titled ‘Till Death Do Us Part.’ It was so successful, a fella named Norman Lear ripped it off, reworked it for American audiences dealing w/t same issues and renamed it, ‘All In The Family.’ The rest is history.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/17/2021 @ 10:38 am
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:49 am
Nothing is preventing this now and removing anonymity won’t help this. If this guy could, or wanted, to sue anyone for libel he could uncover their identities.
I feel like I covered that in my original comment. The mob grows because it bullies people into making a statement. The trend now is that if you have a social media presence it’s either join the mob or be a target. Removing anonymity won’t fix that. Right now the general trend of not embracing anonymity empowers the extra-judicial free speech consequence enforcement by the “woke”. Making that easier by removing the option of anonymity will only get you more of that.frosty (853fac) — 6/17/2021 @ 10:39 am
Making that easier by removing the option of anonymity will only get you more of that.
So it’s metastatic and we just have to live with the cancer?Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 10:55 am
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 10:55 am
Possibly but less anonymity is definitely not going to improve things.
One option is more speech instead of less. More anonymity would encourage more speech or possibly devalue social media overall. The entire “free speech has consequences” and “no hate speech” nonsense needs to be met head-on. It don’t see any evidence that it will be.
A better option might be better education around free speech but I don’t have much hope their either. My first comment in this thread wasn’t ironic. At some point the usual suspects will displaying a complete misunderstanding of free speech.
As far as other options go, we’ve tread this ground before and I don’t see a reason to return to it.frosty (853fac) — 6/17/2021 @ 11:12 am
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:30 am
There’s a whole community now that looks through videos and tries to find matches, but they don’t identify people by name (except to law enforcement) until it’s been verified. People got into trouble by being mistakenly identified.Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/17/2021 @ 11:13 am
Do we need laws that limit some of this damage? There are new torts here, and old law may not work well.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 11:22 am
I’d like to answer, “No, we just need people to learn how to behave on the internet” but some of these folks haven;t learned manners (e.g. Donald Trump).Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 11:23 am
Flip this idea a bit.
Don’t demand that we lose anonymity… instead, demand that companies (ie, the publisher in this story) don’t react to anonymous criticism in this fashion. If someone feels so much about it, they should stake their names along with it. Otherwise, companies ought to respond with a boilerplate “We don’t comment on anonymous posts”.whembly (ae0eb5) — 6/17/2021 @ 11:27 am
4.There was a reason for anonymity in the Federalist Papers.
Bathroom stall graffiti, too. 😉DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/17/2021 @ 11:31 am
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 11:23 am
We don’t need more manners. We need less. The “everyone needs to act right” crowd is just a subset of the “right-think” crowd and they’re joined by the “I don’t want to see anything offensive” crowd. We need more Lenny Bruce and less Colbert.
We need more people willing to say f-you I won’t do what you tell me. The speed and willingness of the brave truth to power rebels embracing the correct views they’ve been spoon fed is both ridiculously laughable and stomach churning.frosty (853fac) — 6/17/2021 @ 11:35 am
Frosty, it is one thing to be blunt when necessary, but too many people have no idea how to behave in normal circumstances. I would very much like a candid camera video of Trump’s first day in jail, as he learns manners the hard way.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 11:39 am
frosty (853fac) — 6/17/2021 @ 11:35 am
WE don;t need to be so ready to punish people, and when it does happen, we need other punishments other than the online death penalty.
They have a problem: Either something is perfectly OK, or a person needs to be shunned – and for things that they just heard about, regardless of how long ago it was that it happened. The thing is, people are too afraid of each other, and corporations especially are.Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/17/2021 @ 11:59 am
And of course Mr. Elder considered himself to be a Democrat.
Hopefully this turns out to be similar to the saying that a conservative is a liberal that’s been mugged.
Reality has a way of opening people’s eyes.NJRob (97e4e5) — 6/17/2021 @ 12:02 pm
It’s worse. You’ve probably seen the “white silence is violence” signs. Or the people at outdoor restaurants being harassed because they wouldn’t chant a slogan.
I think a lot of the attacks come from people who aren’t particularly offended. They’re just constantly looking for a way to assert moral superiority or remedy some feeling of inadequacy by tearing other people down. Calling someone a “racist” gets the most destructive mileage.
The malicious and hysterical overreach also gives cover to people who actually are racists. It does nothing to promote comity — which isn’t the goal anyway.Radegunda (33a224) — 6/17/2021 @ 12:14 pm
My experience with Europe, twenty? years later, in comparison with the US was different from DCSCA’s. I would say that Europe has as much or a worse problem with racism as we do, they just refuse to talk about it. (not that they don’t also have a class issue, because that is definitely a problem for them as well)
And I have to say that I agree with Kevin about needing better manners. IRL I don’t think I’ve ever actually solved a problem with any equivalent of F-off and while it may make a problem retreat briefly, it always comes back worse. I have, however, managed to solve problems by deleting my long f-off email and instead either going to talk firmly but politely in person or by sending a firm but polite email. We can react to rudeness in a way that doesn’t increase the rude quotient of society. There are already too many people who think that it’s OK to try solving their problems by shouting at people.Nic (896fdf) — 6/17/2021 @ 12:17 pm
It goes both ways. The Trump era, and especially the post-election shenanigans, opened my eyes to the craziness in a large swathe of the right, and taught me to distrust the judgment of some people I used to regard as careful thinkers.
It became very clear that in disputes between Rs and Ds, it isn’t always the Rs who are correct — or honest.Radegunda (33a224) — 6/17/2021 @ 12:19 pm
Meanwhile, a Biden nominee to head the BLM lied to the Senate committee in her confirmation documents, neglecting to mention her past involvement in a tree-spiking eco-terrorist plot, in which she received immunity for her testimony.
The bastards!Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 12:38 pm
@Kevin@28 1. Probably she shouldn’t be confirmed as the head of the BLM.
2. Tree spiking (a thing I didn’t know existed until today) appears to be mostly fearmongering (on both sides of the talk about it).
3. Never-the-less people who send terroristic threats probably shouldn’t get positions in government regardless of how honest or not honest they are about it later. Surely there is someone equally qualified who hasn’t sent teorristic threats to anyone.Nic (896fdf) — 6/17/2021 @ 12:57 pm
This appears to be the collision of two problems: cancel culture and the rush to post on social media. Let’s face it, it’s too easy to let something loose on social media (cue Roseanne Barr and any number of personalities)….something we personally may find hilarious or deliciously profound…yet with a few more moments of reflection, we would say….well maybe not everyone would take this the right way (or in this post’s case, maybe enough people might take it exactly as it was intended….but lash out in opposition).
On the other side of the coin, there seems to be a professional community out there dedicated to being offended…about everything….and looking to call people out to make themselves feel more righteous and politically correct. Some are overly-sensitive…others are just mean spirited…and fueled by the mob. Personally, this cancel culture stuff is worse…because it doesn’t allow for dumb mistakes or differences of opinion….and in this case….hurts the individual professionally with essentially no cause. It just seems the best sense to err on the side of caution and avoid the whole game.
Comics like Kevin Hart are put in the worst situations…as comedy by design often steps on toes and pushes on sacred cows….you can’t please everyone…..but some can absorb the blowback easier than others. It’s no longer a virtue to be tolerant….and understanding. Every lesson is educational….AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 6/17/2021 @ 12:58 pm
OT: This just in: Chinese State Security Vice Minister Dong Jingwei has defected, bringing with him an inside view of the Covid origins. His defection coincides with the Biden administration’s change in stance on the issue.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 1:15 pm
@26. Britain wasn’t ‘Europe’ Nic, as they never let any and all forget – and recent history has shown. The cultural mix and legacy from Empire transplants over generations was and remains quite amazing for an island nation. The class structure, much less so.
And, of course, all French will be forever frog scum. 😉DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/17/2021 @ 1:22 pm
“Great nations don’t ignore their most painful moments.” – President Plagiarist, 6/17/21
Idiot.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/17/2021 @ 1:27 pm
Didn’t somebody say here that there would never be a defector?
But supposedly he defected in February. And nobody noticed? Or they thought he might have been arrested?
And that defection was what it took to get the U.S. government to subscribe to the lab leak theory?
He would take information on Covid with him, because he knew that would be of interest to the United Sates, and if not the United States, Aistralia and the United Kingdom and the rest of the five eyes.
He was in counterintelligence, so mostly would have known what the Chinese government was tryng to keep secret, but not the secret itself.
He must have been afraid of being purged, possibly because he was trying to remove Xi because he was afraid Xi would start something up – at least a new cold war. Which would ruin a lot of things for him or members of his family.
No conformation yet, but this has been leaking for two weeks. His main information may be the connection between the WIV and Chinese bacteriological warfare research.Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/17/2021 @ 1:52 pm
@DCSCA@32 Britain only thinks they aren’t part of Europe. I cannot be responsible for their delusions.Nic (896fdf) — 6/17/2021 @ 2:11 pm
Chinese astronauts reach new space station for 3-month mission
‘Three astronauts entered China’s new space station for the first time after riding into space on the Shenzhou-12 spacecraft launched from the edge of the Gobi Desert on Thursday, according to AP. Why it matters: Astronauts Nie Haisheng, Liu Boming and Tang Hongbo are set to occupy the station for a three-month mission, marking the country’s longest crewed space mission ever.’ – news.yahoo.comDCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/17/2021 @ 2:22 pm
@35. 32 Britain only thinks they aren’t part of Europe. I cannot be responsible for their delusions.
Bone up on your Noel Coward, Nic 😉 :
‘Mad dogs and Englishmen go out in the midday sun.’DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/17/2021 @ 2:27 pm
@Paterrico, I see this canceling of Mr. Elder as a continuation of the mindset that went after Ellie Kemper.
I think part of it is that we’re having disconnects between terminologies used in the overall race relation discussions.
IE, Black Lives Matters. Many folks, as I do, have issues with the movement… particularly how BLM is a marxist movement that appears to be nothing more than a grievance grifting entity along the same veins as Al Sharpton and the likes. However, these same folks, if presented with a statement “black lives are just as worthy as white lives”, 90+% of these folks would absolutely agree (the 10[+/-]% is accounting for the real bigots).
I see the same disconnects regarding “White privilege” or “systemic racism” particularly between the younger and older generations. To me, and among the older generation, I think when we hear the word “privilege” it connotates wealth and/or things “handed to them on silver platter”. Ellie Kemper was born into old money, so I would qualify hers as having white privilege. So, when someone who’s middle-class and both mom/dad had to work hard and that person worked just as hard, even paying off school loans for much of their adult career, it’s hard to have that conversation that such a person must recognize their “white privilege”. Especially when faced with certain institution, like universities, are allowed to have race-based admission polices and race-based scholarships.
For the younger generations, and much of the energetic race relation advocates, “white privilege” means something altogether different, which I believe its a structural, inherent racism in our society.
I think conversations like these need to allow nuance such that statements like “I recognize that had I been born with black skin, my opportunities and treatment may be different”. I think most white people would agree to that and that any bigotry/racism is unacceptable.
We’ll likely get very different answers from a 70 yo white & black person than an 20 yo white and black person.
Sadly, there’s either not enough folks willing to sit down and have that “nuance” conversation or too many hucksters taking advantage of this “mess”.whembly (1a398e) — 6/17/2021 @ 2:43 pm
It became very clear that in disputes between Rs and Ds, it isn’t always the Rs who are correct — or honest.
Comparatively, I’d say Rs being correct – or honest – in these disputes is more the rule than the exception.Colonel Haiku (71a740) — 6/17/2021 @ 2:49 pm
dong is defectingColonel Haiku (71a740) — 6/17/2021 @ 2:53 pm
we gonna wang dang doodle
great gosh almighty
Whembly, while I agree with much of what you said, the people running these institutions and using these derogatory terms have no interest in coming to a deeper understanding, but instead just want to entrench themselves in power and keep the majority at each others throats. Using standard communist tactics of indoctrination through the guise of education is just par for the course. Also see our media and other prominent institutions.NJRob (bf9d50) — 6/17/2021 @ 3:04 pm
14 conservative republicans voted for slavery and conservatives would rather whine about this.asset (48e400) — 6/17/2021 @ 4:21 pm
Democrats are responsible for slavery, Jim Crow, founding KKK, segregated “colored-only” facilities, “Great Society’s” decimation of black families, and much, much more.Colonel Haiku (71a740) — 6/17/2021 @ 4:52 pm
But… Biden called him a killer a while ago..BuDuh (7bca93) — 6/17/2021 @ 5:38 pm
14 conservative republicans voted for slavery and conservatives would rather whine about this.
Well, it IS the usual suspects, but they do make a point that needed to be made. Calling it “Juneteenth National Independence Day” was intentionally offensive to those who still remember that term once being used for the 4th of July.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 6:13 pm
OT- Why Squinty McStumblebum is squinty and a stumblebum?!?!?:
‘Squint eyes mostly occur from abnormalities of the neuromuscular control of eye movement, and from the disorder of the external ocular muscles. It can also happen if there is a disorder in the brain, resulting in non-coordination of the eyes. Squint eyes also make binocular vision impossible leading to difficulty in comprehending depth perception’. – source, https://www.thehealthsite.com/diseases-conditions/squint-eye-symptoms-causes-and-treatment-options-f0617-502160/
Brain disorder…. “leading to difficulty in comprehending depth perception…”
Which is why you fall down walking up steps at airports.
Next question: what meds are prescribed for it… tell us, Joe.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/17/2021 @ 6:30 pm
Reminds me of Andrew Sullivan being a detective as to who is Trig’s mom.
Thanks for the OT.Dustin (4237e0) — 6/17/2021 @ 7:02 pm
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/17/2021 @ 1:52 pm
If true this would constitute new information and lend some rationale to the change in narrative.frosty (0e508d) — 6/17/2021 @ 8:04 pm
In other news they’ve uncanceled Toobin and I think female journalists who were on his failure to turn off the video call are part of his welcoming committee.
frosty (40e1bb) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:14 am
Any bets on if they shook his hand?Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 6/17/2021 @ 8:09 pm
“Calling it “Juneteenth National Independence Day” was intentionally offensive to those who still remember that term once being used for the 4th of July.”
Why is it offensive. Nothing has changed with the 4th of July. It’s still called independence day.Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/17/2021 @ 8:12 pm
In other news they’ve uncanceled Toobin and I think female journalists who were on his failure to turn off the video call are part of his welcoming committee.
It pays to advertise?nk (1d9030) — 6/17/2021 @ 8:22 pm
CNN is part of TBS which is part of Warner Media*. Hollywood values.
*Which is part of AT&T but why provoke Occupy more than necessary?nk (1d9030) — 6/17/2021 @ 8:34 pm
I am coming to think that the only way to prevent this kind of harassment, slander and mob action is to abandon internet anonymity. We rightly protect internet providers (at all levels) from responsibility for their customer’s acts, but this should be coupled with a duty to identify bad actors, given some minimal legal process.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/17/2021 @ 9:18 am
I don’t think that will stop it. It might mitigate the worst of the bad actors, but the reality is that leftism is the dominant political ideology of this country now. It has full corporate sponsorship, including the current Tech Trust, is heavily promoted by the largest media and entertainment companies, is taught as the civic religion from the primary school level all the way through grad school, and has insinuated itself throughout all levels of government including the federal bureaucracies.
And that’s largely because the Right, thanks in large part to the influence of the neocons, began the process of rapid surrender in the culture war starting in the early 1990s. The Contract with America, for example, was almost entirely focused on economic issues, even through the New Left had been homing in on cultural institutions since the 60s. Ironically, Communists like Gramsci had posited that the reason international Marxism essentially failed to take hold after World War I was because it was entirely focused on the class struggle, and had ignored the power of cultural pillars to reinforce civic nationalism.
We may simply be going through another period of hyper-Puritanism that this country has experienced off and on since the Salem witch trials, only this time it’s being driven by the neo-Maoists of the Gen-X/Millennial left that came up through academia in the 90s and 2000s when intersectionality and “whiteness” studies were the hot new trends in the liberal arts and social sciences. Maybe it burns itself out like the others have, which is the best-case scenario. But with how atomized the country has become since the advent of the smartphone, a device that really enables the worst aspects of internet culture to assert themselves, I’m not terribly optimistic.Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 6/17/2021 @ 8:36 pm
Why is it offensive. Nothing has changed with the 4th of July. It’s still called independence day.
Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/17/2021 @ 8:12 pm
It’s a deliberate subversion of the nation’s actual Independence Day. I saw this same sort of cultural re-framing by these types in grad school 20 years ago, and their tactics haven’t changed one iota since then.Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 6/17/2021 @ 8:39 pm
@52. “TBS” no longer exists, nk:
On March 4, 2019, AT&T announced a major reorganization of its broadcasting assets to effectively dissolve Turner Broadcasting System. Its assets are to be dispersed across multiple units of WarnerMedia, including the newly created WarnerMedia Entertainment and WarnerMedia News & Sports.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/17/2021 @ 8:53 pm
The “impossible to discuss race” trope goes in only one direction. If he had said “white people are evil,” the social media mob would not have attacked him.DN (eb9ca3) — 6/17/2021 @ 10:12 pm
I’m so glad I’m retired and don’t have to worry about this modern-day Salem witch hunt.norcal (c66c6b) — 6/17/2021 @ 11:01 pm
@54. It was good to see Clyburn there at the WH for the signing ceremony by his massur, wiping his brow; he does the best damn impression of an ol’plantation butler standing next to Overseer Joe since Gone With The Wind hit the big screen in ’39.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/17/2021 @ 11:17 pm
“It’s a deliberate subversion of the nation’s actual Independence Day. I saw this same sort of cultural re-framing by these types in grad school 20 years ago, and their tactics haven’t changed one iota since then.”
How is it subversion of Independence day? Nothing has changed.Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/18/2021 @ 12:39 am
How is it subversion of Independence day? Nothing has changed.
Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/18/2021 @ 12:39 am
Mock protestations that they aren’t doing what they’re doing is another tactic (as is accusing those who refuse to go along with it of the worst motivations, as asset did at post 42), but for the sake of pointing out the obvious, it’s appropriating the nation’s real Independence Day by adding National Independence Day to the traditional Juneteenth moniker that it’s had for several decades. It’s no different than the 1619 Project supporters stating that 1619 is the actual beginning of the United States.
Initially, leftists will argue that accusing them of subverting Independence Day is hurtful, racist, and misplaced. In about 5 years or so, maybe even less considering the accelerationism they’re practicing now, they’ll start declaring Juneteenth to be the “real” Independence Day in order to diminish the 4th of July, just as the 1619 Project and the New York Times argued that 1619 is the origin of the US in order to diminish 1776 as the beginning of the United States.
Like I said, their tactics haven’t changed in decades and they aren’t subtle about it at all, so people making the argument that calling it National Independence Day was not the right terminology can expect to be gaslit with these types of coy protestations and shaming tricks.Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 6/18/2021 @ 5:53 am
One of the names Juneteenth had was Emancipation Day..
That does seem like an attempt by some people, somewhere, in some place we don’t know, to substitute it for July 4th, or downgrade it.
Of course, in New York, Governor Andrew Cuomo staged fireworks in 8 places on June 15th, to celebrate the lifting of (actually only many not all) coronavirus rules (because we hit his figure of 70% vaccination rate, when averaged across the state)Sammy Finkelman (b434ee) — 6/18/2021 @ 6:10 am
Yeah, National Independence Day is ridiculous. Regardless of motive. Like every former slave became a sovereign nation unto himself, or what?
But, then, many of the things fancy ladies do to cater to their clientele’s proclivities can seem ridiculous to ordinary people. And make no mistake, comrades, Washington DC is America’s biggest fancy house.nk (1d9030) — 6/18/2021 @ 6:52 am
He is reported to have taken his daughter with him. The Sun says that news he was in the United Stares became public in March, but it doesn’t say how. It’s still unconfirmed.
The government of China is trying hard to rebut it, so it may be untrue – an attempt to make people believe there has been a defection, so that people will think the government is falling apart, and may defect or talk more freely. Or it may be an attempt to force his release from a secret prison.
https://gaodawei.wordpress.comSammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/18/2021 @ 7:09 am
Junteenth has nothing to do with July 4th guys. Zero.
It’s good that we have both a day to celebrate the nation’s independence (July 4th) and a day to celebrate the nation freeing the slaves (June 19th) in the aftermath of the Civil War.whembly (0ae2ca) — 6/18/2021 @ 7:15 am
Remember, when Democrats tell you how important government workers and government programs are, we instituted a federal holiday and within less than 24 hours, the federal government shut down and no one missed a beat.Hoi Polloi (b28058) — 6/18/2021 @ 8:54 am
Junteenth has nothing to do with July 4th guys. Zero.
Then why weaponize it like that? It smacks of “National Recrimination Day.” Personally, I’d like it to be a day where people reflect on the direction of the nation and how it could be better.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/18/2021 @ 9:40 am
Still, it could be a good day for ABC to show the original “Roots” — a far more powerful and cathartic production that informs whites of the horror of slavery, than the newer version that informs blacks of just how bad white people are.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/18/2021 @ 9:44 am
Speaking at tn the signing ceremony, Vice President Kamala Harris gave several other names for Juneteenth, but not anything that included the word “independence.”
Jubilee Day (after Leviticus 25:10) Freedom Day, Liberation Day. Emancipation Day.
So the Democrats don’t particularly like that name, but it wound up in the bill. Somebody stuck it in there and nobody got it out.
For one thing, they were in a rush to pass it in time for JuneSammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/18/2021 @ 9:51 am
1918, 2021. Pr somebody wanted that. (because, supposedly, blacks can’t enjoy July 4th because most of them weren’t free – although that led to the abolition of slavery in half the states)
Well, today is a day I will remember as my personal Juneteenth. No mask, no gloves atnk (1d9030) — 6/18/2021 @ 10:03 am
— car mechanic for oil change,
— gas station (different place),
— tobacconist, and
— grocery store,
since March of last year. It felt good not to waste a shave (and is it still a manicure if you clip your nails yourself)?
Juneteenth is not a Monday holiday (although, like July 4, if it comes out on a Saturday itis observed on a Friday and if it comes out on a Sunday it is observed on a Monday. The nect two years, t wll be on a Monday)
It takes effect this year. Today, Friday, June 18, 2021.
Most Federal workers will get the day off, and in many places schools are closed. (it also had been made into a state holiday, in many states in the last year. In New York, it became a holiday last October In Texas, it’s been a holiday since 1980 called Emancipation Day. They still remember the Alamo, although nearly everything about it is untrue except for all the people who surrendered being executed. One third to one half tried to escape before the end according to a new book – they didn’t fight to the end, but all were caught and killed.)
After President Biden signed the bill, the daily press briefing (for Friday, I suppose) was cancelled and they pulled down (off the website?) meetings for Friday.
Mail was delivered today.
The stock exchanges and the Wall Street Journal newspaper did not have enough time to react.
Vice President Kamala Harris also signed the bill (at the White House, instead of the Capitol) in her capacity as president of the Senate. This is a purely ministerial task.Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/18/2021 @ 10:13 am
I don’t know if it is bank holiday this year. Banks can be open on federal holidays – it’s just that transactions are dated on the next business day.
People are going to be asking themselves: How did they overlook a holiday for the abolition of slavery all these years?
The people who celebrated it at first, after the original people, were really followers of Booker T. Washington, I think. There was a lot of stress paid on education and self improvement.Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/18/2021 @ 10:19 am
How is it subversion of Independence day? Nothing has changed.
Why Kwanzaa? Because it is ‘theirs’– and it is yet another divisive move from within.
Why no Federal holiday on July 20 honoring the triumph of America’s moon landing? Too many Jewish engineers and ex-Nazis involved???
Or just too damn white. Abernathy b-tched about it back in the day and blacks protested in song and march against it.
Juneteenth is just another divisive and placating form of ‘reparations’– another paid Federal day off for government workers. As if they’ve earned more time off. And both these political parties are aiding this divisiveness from within. End of story.
… and Putin smiled.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/18/2021 @ 10:29 am
Case in point–back in the day at NYC at ad agency, a division head, [a hard-assed Mick from Philly]- verbally labelled MLK Day ‘National N-gger Day’ and steadfastly refused to give staff the day off. Sure, you could take the day and it would be charged as a vacation day– but it was not recognized as a mandatory day off by the firm.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/18/2021 @ 10:36 am
” it’s appropriating the nation’s real Independence Day by adding National Independence Day to the traditional Juneteenth moniker that it’s had for several decades. ”
Nothing has been appropriated. Jan 4 is still Independence day.
“Initially, leftists will argue that accusing them of subverting Independence Day is hurtful, racist, and misplaced.”
No, it’s just stupid.
” In about 5 years or so, maybe even less considering the accelerationism they’re practicing now, they’ll start declaring Juneteenth to be the “real” Independence Day in order to diminish the 4th of July, just as the 1619 Project and the New York Times argued that 1619 is the origin of the US in order to diminish 1776 as the beginning of the United States.”
Now see, that would be appropriation. But it’s not going to happen. What’s more likely is that businesses will “appropriate” the holiday to sell discounted mattresses.Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/18/2021 @ 11:19 am
“And both these political parties are aiding this divisiveness from within. End of story.”
Nah, it’s just more tiresome Republican culture war nonsense. If it hadn’t been called “Independence day” there would have been some other outrage.Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/18/2021 @ 11:27 am
FWO: “…power of cultural pillars to reinforce civic nationalism”
Both sides of the political spectrum have been negatively effecting culture. The Left tends to rationalize negative trends that have racial implications: the rise of out-of-wedlock births, single-parent homes, BLM radicalism, and black-on-black crime. The Right has sown a lot of distrust in institutions and expertise….ranging from Mueller’s investigation to Fauci’s pandemic response to perceptions of fake news to trying to have objective conversations regarding climate change. The Left espouses a militant political correctness; the Right is too stuck in conspiracy land.
We’ve seen big changes recently….a black President, gay marriage, women prominent in the boardroom, changing demographics, globalization of the economy, and an exploding social media presence. We’ve seen the demise of land lines and music on CD’s, cable TV lines have been cut in favor of streaming, and heads are bowed daily to cell phones while churches empty. We get,produce, and use information differently than our parents did. But do we help the elderly neighbor, go to PTA meetings, volunteer at the food pantry, heck let the guy merge safely onto the freeway….or are we stuck in bubbles navel watching? Should athletes be kneeling? Should civil war statues be coming down? Is the Pope going too far? Should we soak the rich? There’s a lot that divides us….and we are being over whelmed by that…such that we don’t appreciate what used to bring us together. Someone needs to lead by example and break the cycle….who’s first?AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 6/18/2021 @ 11:34 am
Nothing has been appropriated. Jan 4 is still Independence day.
Then why name it “National Independence Day”?
No, it’s just stupid.
Pointing out left-wing rhetorical arguments is not stupid.
Now see, that would be appropriation. But it’s not going to happen. What’s more likely is that businesses will “appropriate” the holiday to sell discounted mattresses.
Guess we’ll see in about 5 years, won’t we?Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 6/18/2021 @ 11:37 am
Someone needs to lead by example and break the cycle….who’s first?
Well, that’s why the kulturkampf takes place, isn’t it? Like it or not, civic nationalism is what holds an actual nation together–and whomever controls the institutions that control a nation’s culture determine what that will be. Dave’s deflections that this isn’t what’s happening to the contrary, the left has been far more effective at doing this than the right has the last 40 years or so. It’s why they start parroting “fascism” every time the right begins to proactively assert itself instead of going along to get along.
If the right doesn’t want to keep getting rolled over by the left, they better drop this “government is a necessary evil” pretense and start actually getting some skin in the game, starting with things like school boards and local city commissions where these struggles take place at the ground level.
the Right is too stuck in conspiracy land.
If your opponents are being open about their intentions, it’s not a conspiracy. Why do you think leftist punditry such as Brandy Zadrozny is starting to complain about parents using FOIA requests on school board activities, and left-wing board members and their supporters have to coordinate Enemies Lists over social media against the complainers AND their kids, such as in Louden County, over the circular assertions of critical race theory? The last thing they want is to be questioned and have their agenda crippled by the people they’re seeking to control.Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 6/18/2021 @ 11:54 am
Will those in the private sector who work on Juneteenth be canceled in the future? I think gusinesses that are open on MLK day are under some pressure.
Will the Feds remove a holiday as well? I would think Columbus Day is a hard thing to defend right about now, and changing the name to “Indigenous People’s Day” is just a pander.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/18/2021 @ 12:11 pm
The Left tends to rationalize negative trends that have racial implications: the rise of out-of-wedlock births, single-parent homes,
“rationalize”? More like the Left promotes policies that more often than not result in out-of-wedlock births, single parent (mother) homes, fatherless children, poor schools, high incarceration rates, drug abuse, etc.. The Left always finds much more value in good intentions than results. Has for decades now…
Conspiracies? I think back to several contentions/issues over the last 5 years that were characterized as such by media stenographers, Democrats and their useful idiot rock-ribbed “conservative” Never Trump comrades that were exposed as vicious lies. Pull the other one.Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 6/18/2021 @ 12:21 pm
I would think Columbus Day is a hard thing to defend right about now, and changing the name to “Indigenous People’s Day” is just a pander.
The irony is that Columbus Day was established largely as a pander of its own, to Italian immigrants and their kids who had been discriminated against when they got to the US. Colorado was the first state to formalize it as an annual holiday for precisely this purpose.Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 6/18/2021 @ 12:31 pm
@75. It’s a form of back door ‘reparations.’
“Oh, it’s a jolly holiday with Mary…” – “white slave” ‘Mary Poppins’ 1964DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/18/2021 @ 12:43 pm
“Will those in the private sector who work on Juneteenth be canceled in the future?”
No.Davethulhu (13b53b) — 6/18/2021 @ 1:14 pm
If this analysis is correct, the damage to our polity may be irreparable. The remedy suggested is breaking the political duopoly, which I’m sorry to say I don’t see happening.lurker (59504c) — 6/18/2021 @ 1:16 pm
I don’t think that’s precisely accurate. I would say that the right had firm control of the general national conversation from abt 1980 to abt 2010. There was a significant backlash from the 60s and 70s and there were some extremely skilled wordsmiths working in conservative politics at the time and they were very good at framing most issues. Even currently most governors are Republican, most state legislatures are Republican, a Republican has been president more than half the time and the highest rated cable news channel is Right-leaning. Sinclair broadcast, a right leaning business also owns more local TV stations than anyone else. Most popular talk-radio is right leaning. If anything, the right probably has broader reach than the left even today. The left has been noisier the last couple of years, but I don’t think that is indicative of conversational pull either. I don’t think gains on the left have been due to any particular cleverness of the left, I think they’ve been due to mistakes on the right.
(also, school board meetings are public, you don’t need to FOIA them, you just need to attend or watch on your local access station.)Nic (896fdf) — 6/18/2021 @ 1:57 pm
But the left is in charge of credentials, mostly.Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/18/2021 @ 2:27 pm
President Plagiarist Declares Darkness A Holiday.
“Black nights matter,” sez POTUS!DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/18/2021 @ 2:53 pm
81-FOW, that’s what I tell people, that Cols* Day was opposed by WASPs because it saluted a southern Euro Catholic and Scandinavians because it overlooked the forays into Maritime Canada by Leif Ericson.urbanleftbehind (98feb7) — 6/18/2021 @ 3:04 pm
Buckle up: Gas taxes are increasing on July 1 in California
The tax – which is the nation’s highest gas tax – is set to rise by 0.6 cents to account for inflation. July’s upturn will bring the state’s gas tax total to 51.1 cents per gallon. According to a January report from the American Petroleum Institute, California’s pay 81 cents per gallon when adding in the Federal taxes. source- https://sjvsun.com/california/buckle-up-gas-taxes-are-increasing-on-july-1/DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/18/2021 @ 3:11 pm
I am guessing you haven’t read the FOIA story that FWO was referencing.BuDuh (7bca93) — 6/18/2021 @ 3:20 pm
@90 I read a FOIA story about a district in Maine. IDK if it was the one that FWO was referencing, since it wasn’t linked in his comment.Nic (896fdf) — 6/18/2021 @ 4:52 pm
He gave the name of the pundit.BuDuh (7bca93) — 6/18/2021 @ 5:12 pm
Here is a FOIA story from California:
The parent used the FOIA to access hidden records that proved that the superintendent was a lying sack.BuDuh (7bca93) — 6/18/2021 @ 5:15 pm
Brandy’s FOIA fury:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Heritage/status/1405617437752664080BuDuh (7bca93) — 6/18/2021 @ 5:20 pm
Public meeting.nk (1d9030) — 6/18/2021 @ 5:23 pm
Related: “Pissing on your leg and telling you it’s raining.”
Biden/Harris voters are the worststeveg (ebe7c1) — 6/18/2021 @ 5:41 pm
@93 Did you watch the story, pause and read the email? The story was that a sub gave an unapproved assignment in an English class. The emails said nope, not for English, maybe for ethnic studies. It had not been approved or even come up for approval. The head of the school board can’t just arbitrarily approve curriculum, it’s voted on. The mother being profiled was also wrong in what the email about the ethnic studies elective class was doing.
Also, they didn’t FOIA “hidden records” they FOIA’d a work email conversation. Are your work emails mysterious “hidden records?”. (school district emails can be requested by the public)Nic (896fdf) — 6/18/2021 @ 6:40 pm
Let me guess, you think you love America. It’s just 51.3% of Americans you can’t stand.lurker (59504c) — 6/18/2021 @ 8:23 pm
@98 8,000,000 more people voted for them over trump ;but only won electoral college by 44,000 votes. Civil war was barely averted. 51.3% of what?asset (c87bc3) — 6/18/2021 @ 8:38 pm
Soylent Green is one of those movies which is better than the book. Because it’s a riff on the “how the sausage is made” analogy, with the added element that the consumers are also the ingredient.nk (1d9030) — 6/18/2021 @ 9:02 pm
@79. Per Fox News- Federal workers get 44 paid days off now.
Reaganomics!DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/18/2021 @ 9:08 pm
Do you see the not so subtle change in what you were arguing to what you are now arguing?
Please clean that up.
As far as the video I posted, did the parent state that the superintendent blamed a substitute teacher for going rouge but then the FOIA emails proved that the superintendent was aware of the curriculum?BuDuh (7bca93) — 6/18/2021 @ 11:17 pm
@102 It only seems like a contradiction if you don’t know that to actually get anything approved it has to go through the public process via the school board.
The assignment wasn’t part of the curriculum for either the English class for which it was mistakenly assigned or for the Ethnic Studies class. The superintendent was correct in saying that the sub had gone rogue and it matched what he said in his email. The parent was confused and conflating several different things.Nic (896fdf) — 6/19/2021 @ 12:02 am
I would say that the right had firm control of the general national conversation from abt 1980 to abt 2010.
No, they didn’t.
There was a significant backlash from the 60s and 70s and there were some extremely skilled wordsmiths working in conservative politics at the time and they were very good at framing most issues.
Which certainly wasn’t stopping the New Left’s march through the institutions during this period.
Even currently most governors are Republican, most state legislatures are Republican, a Republican has been president more than half the time and the highest rated cable news channel is Right-leaning.
The focus on electoral results deflects from the left’s takeover of the cultural institutions I mentioned. After all, just because conservatives have largely abandoned academia, and haven’t been a notable presence in Hollywood since the 1970s, if not earlier, doesn’t mean that the voting electorate itself is necessarily aligning with them. Note that, in the last 30 years, when Independent registrations increase, it’s in close correlation to Republican registrations declining. Very rarely does a similar correlation occur in Democratic registrations.
And citing Fox News and Sinclair as proof that conservatives are a dominant media presence is cherry-picking (and in Sinclair’s case, a genetic fallacy). Fox gets the audience it does because it’s the one MSM cable network that doesn’t cleave to left-wing political talking points. Talk radio has largely been a conservative bastion because left-wing narratives dominated mainstream media outlets for decades–like Fox, it was simply a matter of the audience migrating to outlets which gave their political views a more prominent voice.
The left has been noisier the last couple of years, but I don’t think that is indicative of conversational pull either.
They’ve been noisier for the last 50.
Also, they didn’t FOIA “hidden records”
No one on this thread mentioned “hidden records”; that’s a strawman. Nor did I say “school board meetings,” I said “school board activities,” which encompass more than just the monthly meetings (just ask the recently fired school board of Los Lunas, New Mexico). The point is that left-wing Optimates like Zadrozny are complaining that the people who pay the salaries of school boards and the school districts are exploiting public records requests to find out what they’re coordinating behind the scenes.Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 6/19/2021 @ 2:13 pm