Consider Yourselves Warned: Low-Hanging Fruit Ahead
[guest post by Dana]
Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America
Congratulations to the country of Nigeria, who just banned Twitter because they banned their President. More COUNTRIES should ban Twitter and Facebook for not allowing free and open speech—all voices should be heard. In the meantime, competitors will emerge and take hold. Who are they to dictate good and evil if they themselves are evil? Perhaps I should have done it while I was President. But Zuckerberg kept calling me and coming to the White House for dinner telling me how great I was. 2024?
So…the head of the Retrumplican Party, once a bastion of free speech defenders, applauds and even encourages the banning of non-governmental social media platforms in the name of free speech even though the marketplace is open to any and all competitors??
Best part? Trump’s excuse for not having done something sooner: I wanted to but couldn’t because that damn Mark Zuckerberg kept showing up at my house for dinner whispering sweet nothings in my ear and telling me how great I was. C’mon people, how was Trump supposed to resist that??!!
Every time he makes these sort of ridiculous statements, I have a queasy feeling that his base received the signal loud and clear: Do you want me in 2024???
I wonder how much money he raises off of these kinds of proclamations?Dana (fd537d) — 6/8/2021 @ 3:33 pm
But Zuckerberg kept calling me and coming to the White House for dinner telling me how great I was.
Swept him off his feet, and then broke his heart.nk (1d9030) — 6/8/2021 @ 3:54 pm
The cad!nk (1d9030) — 6/8/2021 @ 3:54 pm
That’s Trump… not the entirety of the Republican Party.
I don’t believe we should be banning any application like Twitter (unless there’s a real good national security reason, or the like).
I also have this distaste that people think Twitter, Facebook, social media is life. Stop living in social media!!whembly (ae0eb5) — 6/8/2021 @ 3:58 pm
If Trump were still on Twitter and Facebook, they’d be facing anti-trust suits about now. Neither of them is actually based on free speech, or so I’m repeatedly told.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/8/2021 @ 4:12 pm
Stop living in social media!!
Not half an hour ago, I watched a gentleman park his car, and get out and walk to the passenger side to open the door for the birthing person with him. I was slightly shocked that he used his fob to unlock the passenger door from the outside — was she a prisoner? No, she had both her hands and her eyes glued to her phone. The whole time. Getting out of the car, walking to the crosswalk, crossing the street, walking down the sidewalk on the other side of the street, and I just couldn’t even anymore.nk (1d9030) — 6/8/2021 @ 4:14 pm
even though the marketplace is open to any and all competitors??
So long as the platform oligarchy allows it. There are things that this blog cannot do and remain accessible. Not that it would, but there are clear limits to speech, set by an interlocking set of bosses. Stop pretending that it’s “open to all.”Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/8/2021 @ 4:17 pm
That’s Trump… not the entirety of the Republican Party.
Given the slavish support Trump has within the Republican Party (85% want candidates that “mostly agree” with Trump) and 66% want Trump to run in 2024, it’s pretty hard to separate the two.Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/8/2021 @ 4:19 pm
Not that I’m defending Trump himself (he should drop dead), but even a flaming assh0le can be wronged. Matter of fact, that’s where you see where the system is broken. They never go after the nice guys.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/8/2021 @ 4:20 pm
And you are right, that statement by Trump is low-hanging fruit. I’m ignoring it.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/8/2021 @ 4:21 pm
If Trump were still on Twitter and Facebook, they’d be facing anti-trust suits about now.
Huh?Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/8/2021 @ 4:23 pm
I get this, yet at the same time when we look back on what Trump did and was able to get his followers to do, including making every effort to overturn an election and wreak havoc on the Rule of Law and our nation, it is to our peril that we ignore things like this. This especially in light of the overwhelming support he still has in the Republican Party. (See Rip Murdock @ 6)Dana (fd537d) — 6/8/2021 @ 4:31 pm
Aside from the 2-minute hate that statement evokes, his fans will eat it up. The actual danger here is that, if returned to the White House, Trump intends to break all the norms. And his fans will cheer as the institutions burn.
Still, barring him from the general public discourse, on media that assert they are open to all, is a mistake. If the tables are turned, he will use that to justify returning the same to his critics.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/8/2021 @ 4:32 pm
Swell! Mo more spam from one of those places wihou indoor toilets Trump labelled a “sh-t hole” country! 😉DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/8/2021 @ 4:34 pm
Still, barring him from the general public discourse, on media that assert they are open to all…..
a) He is not barred from general public discourse, as evidenced by the continued media attention and press releases; and
b) Access to Twitter, Facebook, etc. are open to all that agree to abide by their terms of service.Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/8/2021 @ 4:37 pm
If Trump were still on Twitter and Facebook, they’d be facing anti-trust suits about now.
I assert that the tech monopolies are running scared — there is a bipartisan call for antitrust. So long as Trump had power, they let him rant lest his minions drag them into court. After he lost, they turned on him, all the better to appease the new boss.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/8/2021 @ 4:37 pm
Yeah, Rip, we agree to disagree. It’s censorship by proxy.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/8/2021 @ 4:38 pm
9.Not that I’m defending Trump himself (he should drop dead),
That’s pretty harsh, Kev. Give the Big Mac and fries time. Although given the other guy’s clear inability to walk up a flight of stairs, he might just beat Ronald McDonald to the finish line.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/8/2021 @ 4:38 pm
Politicians and others who call for “breaking up” Twitter, Facebook, etc. generally don’t know what they are talking about, especially when they critique social media for banning individuals or speech. Banning persons or speech are not economic issues, which is what anti-trust actions are all about.
SourceRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/8/2021 @ 4:52 pm
President Kamala Harris…
“Be Prepared” – Tom Lehrer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTRHv1I0xigDCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/8/2021 @ 5:19 pm
Bo-o-o-ring! We’ve already had these “break-up big tech” discussions every which way but fricasseed.
I want to talk about the juicy stuff. Trump’s doomed romance with Zuckerberg. Two married people, they should have known it was folly.nk (1d9030) — 6/8/2021 @ 6:03 pm
Trump’s use of all capital letters (“COUNTRIES”) is revulsive. It’s very unbecoming of a President or ex-President to use all caps or exclamation points (another one of his tells). He is/was the leader of the most powerful country in the world. His words need no added emphasis. This tendency of his just reeks of professional wrestling, which explains his rabid support from the rubes.
It’s like having a military parade when everyone already knows you have the best military. Oh, wait…norcal (d1d6aa) — 6/8/2021 @ 6:13 pm
Strike that “is” from the is/was.norcal (d1d6aa) — 6/8/2021 @ 6:16 pm
The leader of the GOP is a self absorbed thin skinned moron.Time123 (ea2b98) — 6/8/2021 @ 6:44 pm
@22 biden’s coherent and grammatically correct tweets are a tell that he had nothing to do with themJF (e1156d) — 6/8/2021 @ 6:48 pm
@25 Do you think I’m a Biden fan? A pox on both of them.norcal (21e823) — 6/8/2021 @ 7:39 pm
@25 is giving us another version of “I can’t find a way to defend the atrocious inanity coming yet again from Trump, so I’ll try this clever diversionary tactic.”Radegunda (ca133c) — 6/8/2021 @ 11:15 pm
I had similar thoughts, Radegunda. Why do seemingly smart people rush to defend Trump? Is it an ego thing, where they can’t admit error in previously supporting him, or is it even worse, in that they still support him?norcal (7eb7ec) — 6/9/2021 @ 12:00 am
I’m supposed to be shocked by Nigeria and/or Trump while Google, Microsoft, and the others dutifully scrub Tiananmen Square from all Chinese searches?
So what is worse – a country outright banning a social media platform or social media platforms working with a host country to alter history and spread disinformation?
I really don’t care if Nigeria bans Twitter. Nigerians have plenty of options to get their social media fix.
And I really don’t care what Trump has to say anymore. He’s just trolling at this point.Hoi Polloi (093fb9) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:09 am
Once again, it’s more evidence that Trump doesn’t understand the document he swore to defend and uphold. He doesn’t have the right to tweet or make Facebook entries, while Twitter and Facebook do have the right to publish or not publish content.Paul Montagu (a3436d) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:18 am
Kevin and others can ignore him if he wants, but it remains that Trump is still the leader of the GOP with a stranglehold over a super-majority of elected Republicans who are too afraid or too in the bag to cross him.
My theory is that they feel Trump is a symbol of a group they strongly identify with and seeing Trump attacked makes them feel personally attacked. It’s painful for them to acknowledge that their ‘team’ has made a mistake. Similar behavior in avid sports fans when their favorite team benefits from a bad call by the ref.
It seems like the point to them is not ‘was Trump factually correct.” or “Does what Trump says make sense.” it’s “Am I being respected, as measured by respect shown to this symbol of my tribe.”Time123 (b87ded) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:48 am
“Why do seemingly smart people rush to defend Trump?”
Because there is obviously a greater evil…..and though JF and his crew may not always be upfront about it, they viscerally love the furious way that Trump fights for their vision of American culture. JF always reminds us that Trump is out of office…he is off of Twitter and FB….he in some sense has been disgraced….that we need to move on and, in effect, “get a life”.
I could accept the point if other voices were emerging to lead the GOP…or at least if the party itself was drifting away from stop-the-steal theatrics and forced equivalencies of January 6th and BLM. But alas, it’s crystal clear post January 6th that the GOP is Trump’s party. We see state parties punishing/purging perceived disloyalty….politicians making pilgramages to Mar a Lago….and polls suggesting that Republicans are firmly behind Trump for 2024. So…yeah….in its small way like-minded Patterico commenters want to continue to yell that the emperor is in fact buck naked…and nuts….and why it should matter and what should be done.
JF wants to talk about Biden…..which is fine and needed…but he misses that it rings hollow…and lacks moral authority when your own house is a mess…..when your presumptive alternative is worse in many respects. Biden’s politics are stale and wrong….but Trump’s distortions and self-centered mania might even be more destructive to our democracy long term. JF doesn’t get into this nuance….he wants people to move on…..but to what exactly? He doesn’t say….AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 6/9/2021 @ 6:25 am
AJ_Liberty, Because Trump remains the leader of the GOP the choice remains between a party whose politics are, as you generously put it, stale and wrong and a party that’s gone barking mad.Time123 (b87ded) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:10 am
Time123, that’s why it’s important to diagnose why the GOP has gone mad and offer….with as tiny of voice as we may have….an alternative vision…no matter how mocked we are from the uninspiring likes of DCSCA and asset….or branded as disloyal by cynics like JF and mg. Traditional conservatism may have lost traction in these toxic political times, but it offers the tried-and-true wisdom about human nature and character that ultimately wins out over the ever-shifting sugar-high of populism. In the end, Trumpism is about burning everything to the ground….and this appeals to the short sighted….unfortunately a scorched earth war likely removes a lot of good with the bad….and fails to offer a clear picture of what gets put in its place. Putin loves Trump and Trumpism…..some don’t seem to struggle with that……AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:38 am
Trump’s Selling cultural relevance, respect, and a chance to flip the bird to elites.
You’re selling limited government, rule of law, facts, and family values. (My conclusion based on what I recall of your previous comments.)
His supporters have decided they don’t care about any of that. They want someone to tell them they’re special and make fart noises at ‘the elites’ who ‘look down on them’. In service of that they’ll believe any lie that supports their world view and attack anyone that questions it like a pack of frustrated monkeys. Much like the monkeys they don’t care if Liz Chaney is correct on the details.Time123 (b87ded) — 6/9/2021 @ 7:48 am
If Trump went away people in both tribes would need to bring him back. Trump is better than a shiny object or a squirrel.
I’m convinced a plurality of people have developed a coping mechanism for any topic that requires a modicum of critical thought. They tread water long enough to find out where Trump is on the topic and then pick their usual for or against.frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2021 @ 8:24 am
Saying “well, these policies worked out okay” is a respectable position to take. What’s more disturbing is how people who used to speak forcefully against Trump’s conspicuous character defects turned around and took the position that anyone who still talks the same way about those defects is on the side of evil. Now they can’t or won’t contemplate turning around again to say “Maybe I shouldn’t have decided that the character issues don’t matter.” Of course, they don’t hesitate to call out Biden for any hint of a lack of candor.
Some obviously smart people made themselves comfortable with Trump’s extraordinary self-centeredness and routine dishonesty. What’s odder, perhaps, is that they seem unbothered by his absurdity — as captured e.g. in the photos of him holding a Bible in front of St. John’s Church.Radegunda (2a2f56) — 6/9/2021 @ 8:53 am
Morning Consult Poll: 29% of GOP Voters Say It’s Likely Trump Will Be Reinstated as President This YearRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2021 @ 9:01 am
According to a new Morning Consult/Politico survey, 29 percent of Republican voters said it is at least somewhat likely that Trump will be restored as president in 2021 – including 17 percent who said it is “very likely.”
From October to November, the share of Republican adults who said they had “a lot” or “some” confidence in the electoral system fell 22 percentage points, to 45 percent. In the latest May 28-May 30 survey, just 2 in 5 Republicans said they have confidence in American elections, compared with 62 percent of Democrats.
Three in 4 voters (77 percent) said they believe America’s democracy is currently being threatened, including 82 percent of Republicans, 77 percent of Democrats and 72 percent of independents.
I had no difficulty focusing on the merits of this or that policy before 2015. Then Trump came along with his “It’s all about me and my glory” attitude, and most of the GOP then decided “Yeah, it is all about glorifying Trump.”
That’s what’s been handed to people who lean conservative but can’t stand the personality cult or the kooks it has elevated to high office on grounds of their Trump-love.
The Trump cult has corrupted policy debate, and it has destroyed personal relationships too. I’ve seen comments from many people saying that former friends and even relatives won’t speak to them anymore because loyalty to Trump is now at the center of their moral code. Some non-Trumpy conservatives have said that leftists are more tolerant of them than Trumpers are.
Intra-party debates among Republicans or conservatives were never so bitter before, because now it doesn’t come down to “is this or that policy better,” but “will you defend Trump without reservation — or are you one of the Deep State hacks and traitors?”Radegunda (2a2f56) — 6/9/2021 @ 9:09 am
frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2021 @ 8:24 am
Yes. He’s a great ratings draw / click bait. Also, after Hillary lost she basically went away. There were a few statements but she wasn’t the Dem leader and she wasn’t that visible. Trump and GOP still tried to make her a center piece because their base hated her. (In many cases for good reason). So i would expect the Dems to try and do the same for Trump. But they don’t need to because he’s the leader of the GOP and appears to be running in 24.Time123 (b87ded) — 6/9/2021 @ 9:20 am
I wasn’t paying attention to the title because, at first, I thought Dana was telling us to “consider yourselves low-hanging fruit”. It’s been a week.Paul Montagu (70b21b) — 6/9/2021 @ 9:42 am
Never, Paul, would I insult you or readers in that way. I selected that title because some commenters have complained that it’s silly to post about Trump now and that he is obviously low-hanging fruit. I felt like I was giving them particular warning about what was to come. But I unwaveringly maintain that it is a big risk to ignore anything that Trump says given what we’ve seen over the past five years and in particular, after his election loss.Dana (fd537d) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:01 am
@32 i want to know who this “other voice” in the gop could be
more than likely the other voice probably said something offhand nice about trump on a no name podcast from five years ago that no one listened to at the time so we can’t vote for that person either
just trying to make out the next move cuz voting gop ain’t itJF (e1156d) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:03 am
@34. Mocked? Reaganomics. Reaganaurics. Reaganoptics. Now add Reagancomics to the list.
“Tried and true,” indeed.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:08 am
In the end, Trumpism is about burning everything to the ground….
Welcome to 1964.
Glorious.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:10 am
Here’s a cheering development :
Trumpers would say it shows that New Jersey is a swampy state full of RINOs and alligators, and that the Trumpy vote was tragically split, but I’ll take good news where I can get it.Radegunda (2a2f56) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:21 am
Would any other Republican in the presidency have brought this much crazy to the party?Radegunda (2a2f56) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:26 am
That’s pretty high for foolish or ignorant beliefs. Usually it doesn’t get above about 15% (and 5% of people polled will agree with almost anything. They just haven’t tried it enough with enough questions.)
I wonder, was it a leading question? People latch on to hints.
Maybe it is below 15%, because this is a subset of GOP voters.Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:28 am
36.If Trump went away people in both tribes would need to bring him back. Trump is better than a shiny object or a squirrel.
Just a vessel to carry the disappointed rage of rabid righties and a symbolic whipping boy for multicultural lefties. Those PO’d 74 million will simply simmer and fester and find a new champion. Conservative ideologues used them; betrayed them– and now they’re on the outs: wholly irrelevant. But the thing is, a fresh face may be less entertaining and more sinister than the familiar Donald.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:32 am
“i want to know who this “other voice” in the gop could be”
Really, anyone with the willingness to move on and provide a competing vision for the party. Right now, the vision is a hodge-podge of Trump grievances mixed in with cynically-mined cultural hot-button issues….like men playing and destroying women’s sports….or black athletes kneeling to protest police excessive violence. We all will have different lines of acceptability for Trump challengers….but we’re long past looking for the perfect alternative. For me, Cruz has destroyed his credibility….I can’t see him being an effective option even if he pivoted once more for personal advantage….but others like Nikki Haley haven’t serially beclowned themselves and can still legitimately lead. Other good Republicans like Paul Ryan simply don’t want to be stuck flinging turds in Trump’s sandbox….Scott Walker….Bobby Jindal….heck even Rick Perry are all good men who could help chart a responsible course. Step 1 remains, understand why the current course is heading for a squall….AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:54 am
Damn straight, AJ.Dustin (4237e0) — 6/9/2021 @ 12:39 pm
Memo to Great Britain:
Sincerest apologies for sending Squinty McStumblebum to your shores. He is not the best of us.
Lock up your speeches and guard the Magna Carta, lest he lift a few lines from it as well.
“Pay attention, Joe.” – First Lady Jill Biden, RAF Mildenhall, Cornwall, UK
My God.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/9/2021 @ 12:49 pm
“Allow me to quote our Declaration of Independence… all men and women are created equal.” – President Plagiarist, RAF Mildenhall, UK 6/9/21
Hmmm. Allow me to quote it: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness”.
Listen to your wife: PAY ATTENTION, JOE
IDIOT.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/9/2021 @ 1:05 pm
@48 Sammy Finkelman-
The question was: How likely do you think it is that former President Donald Trump will be reinstated as U.S. President this year, if at all?
Demographic-Republicans, no leaners
It is all surveyed GOP voters, not a subset of Republicans.
See page 242 at the link.Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 6/9/2021 @ 2:45 pm
Time123, AJ_Liberty, and Radegunda,
Thank you for your thoughtful responses to my question.norcal (c58621) — 6/9/2021 @ 3:31 pm
I’ve seen comments from many people saying that former friends and even relatives won’t speak to them anymore because loyalty to Trump is now at the center of their moral code.
Radegunda (2a2f56) — 6/9/2021 @ 9:09 am
A few years ago my cousin discovered (thanks to one of those genealogical DNA companies) that he had a daughter he never knew about. She came from Colorado to visit him in Utah. Everything was joyous. Then, my cousin, an avid Trump supporter, asked this newfound daughter about her politics. The daughter said she wasn’t a fan of Trump. End of relationship.norcal (c58621) — 6/9/2021 @ 3:37 pm
AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:54 am
This isn’t a thing and it’s so much not a thing that it’s hard to read this without a laugh. Anyone saying let’s move past trump gets flack from both sides. The haters are just as bad as the nut jobs because trump voters must be made to suffer and “lessons must be learned”.
We’re going to be stuck in the current cycle for a bit longer. The first derivative on the crazy graph is still positive.frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2021 @ 3:44 pm
norcal (c58621) — 6/9/2021 @ 3:37 pm
Interesting story. My anecdotal evidence suggests this is largely sourced from anti-Trump but your mileage may vary. The few cases were I’ve seen “conservatives” cut things off it’s because of the “liberal’s” bad behavior.frosty (f27e97) — 6/9/2021 @ 3:53 pm
A ProPublica report based on secret IRS files showed billionaires pay relatively little tax. Inequality experts have been warning for years that the wealthy pay relatively low taxes.
Reaganomics!DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/9/2021 @ 4:19 pm
Not for nothing, but certain commenters here remind me of those dolls my little cousins used to have. You know, the ones that were advertised as “talking”? Only when your cousin pulls the string, the doll says one of maybe three or four phrases, and it turns out that’s all the doll can say? And so thanks to her easily-enraptured mind, you hear everything in its repertoire thirty times in about five minutes, by which time you’re heartily sick of it? So you wait until your cousin is having a nap, and then you take the doll, and sneak it up to a high cupboard in an out-of-the-way bedroom on the second floor, and leave it there? Hopefully for all eternity, where it can never bother anyone again? You know. THOSE dolls.
“My name is Talky Tina, and I don’t think I like you.” — Talky Tina (June Foray), “Living Doll,” The Twilight Zone (Nov. 1, 1963)Demosthenes (421101) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:45 pm
Well done, Demosthenes!norcal (d1d6aa) — 6/9/2021 @ 5:49 pm
Glorious.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/9/2021 @ 8:41 pm
That’s tragic and appalling. I live in a fairly lefty place, and at various times a left-liberal acquaintance has found out that I subscribed to some conservative publication, which at first made me feel awkward, but then nothing changed. I was still accepted the same as before.Radegunda (2a2f56) — 6/9/2021 @ 8:50 pm
I pulls the string, you says the same thing.
Not surprising.Demosthenes (3fd56e) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:04 pm
Glorious.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:14 pm
Why?nk (1d9030) — 6/9/2021 @ 10:28 pm
@66. Reagancomics; just stringin’em along.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/9/2021 @ 11:26 pm
Oh, don’t even bother asking. He’s set himself up so that — on his terms — he pretty much can’t lose. If he makes nonsense of the conversation, he wins. If he gets me blustering mad, he wins. If I ignore him, he wins.
The only way he could lose is to let me have the last word. And as long as he just keeps saying the same thing over and over again, he doesn’t even have to put out any significant effort to keep that from happening.
My satisfaction is in the public owning. Regular commenters (those with intelligence, anyway) who read what I wrote will chuckle, and will think of him a little less seriously ever after. That’s my win, and he can’t take it from me.Demosthenes (3fd56e) — 6/10/2021 @ 9:00 am
@68. The ‘win’ is the content of #59: you lose.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/10/2021 @ 9:28 am
Told you, nk…Demosthenes (3fd56e) — 6/10/2021 @ 9:40 am
@70. String pulled: you’ve been told. =mike-drop=DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 6/10/2021 @ 10:01 am
I told you so:
House Bills Seek to Break Up Amazon and Other Big Tech Companies
I wonder if this will get more conservatives banned from the public square. There must be some way to appease the politicians.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 6/11/2021 @ 5:16 pm