Patterico's Pontifications

4/20/2021

Open Thread: Chauvin Verdict — Guilty on All Counts

Filed under: General — JVW @ 1:22 pm



[guest post by JVW]

1:20 pm Pacific — It’s been announced that the jury has reached a verdict which will be read sometime between 1:30 and 2:30 pm Pacific Time (3:30 and 4:30 pm Central Time).

2:06 pm — Guilty on all charges. I’ll detail the charges in a moment.

2:10 pm — From the language used by the judge, here’s what Mr. Chauvin was convicted of:

Count one: Unintentional second-degree murder while committing a felony.
Count two: Third-degree murder, perpetrating a dangerous act.
Count three: Second-degree manslaughter with negligence, creating an unreasonable risk.

2:35 pm — Just heard a news commentator say that Mr. Chauvin will be sentenced in approximately eight weeks.

Discuss here.

– JVW

153 Responses to “Open Thread: Chauvin Verdict — Guilty on All Counts”

  1. Wouldn’t you know it: moments after I drafted my previous post.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  2. Welp.

    Dave (1bb933)

  3. Put n your TeeVee: ‘dark clouds’ are gathering.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  4. The closing statements were on Thursday, correct? Did the jury deliberate at all on Friday? I’m assuming they did not over the weekend. I’m wondering how quickly they came to a decision, and whether that bodes well for the prosecution or the defense. In any case, there goes the whole hung jury question.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  5. BBQs, party on… CNN interviewing the assembling street fair.

    … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  6. @4. No, just yesterday I think– they’ve only deliberated less than a day. Food must have been lousy at the Days Inn they were sequestered at. But Waters shot her mouth off and made an appeal all bu certain.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  7. 4 hours of deliberations yesterday, and 5-6 hours today.

    Dave (1bb933)

  8. CNN notes the jury deliberated for ten hours.

    No matter what the verdict, expect rioting to last ten times that.

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  9. ‘No matter what the verdict, expect rioting to last ten times that.’

    Of course. Either way it goes, make your popcorn and get ready to watch some Reality TeeVee! “America-Is-Burning-Mad!” Coast to coast, tonight!

    “The Death Hour. It’ll wipe fvckin’ Disney right off the air!” – Max Schumacher [William Holden] ‘Network’ 1976

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  10. Young black woman commentator/reporter on the local ABC affiliate is almost certain that they will come in with a guilty verdict.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  11. The jury submitted zero questions to the judge during the deliberation.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  12. @10. CNN is acting like it’s New Year’s Eve. Don Lemon is having a baby.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  13. ‘No matter what the verdict, expect rioting to last ten times that.’

    I’m not so sure. If they come back with a guilty verdict then don’t you think the local Democrat establishment — not to mention national Democrats — have every single incentive to prevent rioting, which at this point would be hard to blame on anybody but the rioters and those in charge of quelling it? It would be (or at least ought to be) incredibly embarrassing to BLM if they rioted in victory, like drunken sports fans whose team just won a championship, and I would think Minnesota Democrats would work hard to prevent that, whereas they mostly sat back passively during the George Floyd riots because they found it politically advantageous.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  14. Oh my!!! CNN reports President Plagiarist is standing by for verdict “at his TV!” Quick, Vlad! Roll them tanks and get those 100,000 troops into Ukraine before the commercial break!

    We need to tear down more Confederate monuments and establish streets and rename squares for black drug addicts petty crooks and passers of counterfeit money.

    Assessment stands; America: you suck.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  15. Half a dozen major cities are warning their citizens to prepare for riots on account of the possibility of black people (okay, okay, the rich white failsons and daughters that comprise the antifa contingent too) disliking a verdict delivered by a jury and the entirety of the media, corporate and political establishment will have you believe that right-wing extremism is the country’s most imminent threat.

    Jeremy Jortson (c64973)

  16. How long did the Jason Van Dyke jury deliberate? that’s probably the closest comparable.

    urbanleftbehind (10f92b)

  17. Well, DCSCA, you b’d and moaned about no Democrats manning the frontlines in 1/6, compare that to the fallen President of Chad.

    urbanleftbehind (10f92b)

  18. @13. Considering Americans have a history of burning and looting their own cities when their home town sports teams WIN one can reasonably expect some flaming wreckage LIVE o the cablers tonight.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  19. If they come back with a guilty verdict then don’t you think the local Democrat establishment — not to mention national Democrats — have every single incentive to prevent rioting, which at this point would be hard to blame on anybody buy the rioters and those in charge of quelling it?

    They might make a mealy-mouthed appeal at the end of a long diatribe about how this one victory doesn’t help all the other black people shot by cops, but in the end, rioters have to riot. What you will hear is Democrats say – “they aren’t us!”

    Of course.

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  20. @17. Rabbits run; Ds and Rs.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  21. On a local note, LAPD is apparently claiming that any street mobilization is going to be immediately curtailed (it’s rush hour after all) and that there will be zero tolerance for rioting here. Take that, Maxine Waters.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  22. You can’t help but notice this now;

    pop quiz: “Where’s Waldo?!?!”

    Find the straight, white, Anglo-Saxon-protestant-male anchorman at CNN:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_CNN_personnel

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  23. How long did the Jason Van Dyke jury deliberate? that’s probably the closest comparable.

    On Friday afternoon, after less than eight hours of deliberating, the jury convicted Officer Van Dyke of second-degree murder and 16 counts of aggravated battery with a firearm in the death of Laquan, a black teenager who was carrying a knife but veering away from the police.

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  24. I see some idiots have brought their young children out in Minneapolis.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  25. OK, here we go.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  26. 22, downtown Atlanta ain’t exactly a draw for the cohort nk competes for to fill his ideal police department.

    urbanleftbehind (10f92b)

  27. @21. She’s 82. Can’t chalk it up to menopause. Dementia, may be. Another reason for age/terms limits.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  28. Guilty on all counts.

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  29. Guilty-Unintentional Second degree murder

    Guilty-Third degree murder

    Guilty-Second degree manslaughter

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  30. Guilty, guilty, guilty.

    Appeal.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  31. Split screen mob rule cheers on CNN.

    … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  32. @28. Great! Party tonight! Let’s set the town on fire!!!!

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  33. They still have to riot in the name of Toledo and Wright.

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  34. Three more trials to go.

    Dave (1bb933)

  35. Guilty on all three counts even though some are mutually exclusive, this was definitely a ‘please don’t dox and hurt me’ verdict. Expect it to get quietly appealed in 3 months.

    And police are about to take an early paid summer vacation at the donut shop.

    Johnathan Jorts (fc69bc)

  36. Chauvin showed no real emotion (yeah, the mask makes it hard to tell) so it would seem he was pretty prepared for the worst, though obviously hoping for the best.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  37. Great!

    Now go after the Capital Cop who murdered Ashli Babbitt.

    Oh. Wait.

    She was a white woman.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  38. Maxine Waters is the biggest winner. She is now empowered to help a jury find the right verdict through the veiled threat of violence.

    Congrats, Democrats.

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  39. Great! Now go after the Capital Cop who murdered Ashli Babbitt. Oh. Wait. She was a white woman. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 4/20/2021 @ 2:17 pm

    They are too busy trying to shoehorn a stroke into a murder conviction.

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  40. Influenza, of the Azure strain, may come roaring back from its COVID-clean practices induced slumber.

    urbanleftbehind (10f92b)

  41. “Maxine Waters is the biggest winner. She is now empowered to help a jury find the right verdict through the veiled threat of violence.”

    Given that the mayor of Minneapolis and Joe puddinbrain himself also made statements to roughly the same effect, she was most likely just there to take ineffectual heat in case the jurors felt like voting their conscieneces.

    May Minneapolis and its people burn forevermore for their cowardice, mendacity, self-righteousness, and willingness to enable all of the worst moral trends of modern life.

    Johnathan Jorts (b5e05c)

  42. Influenza, of the Azure strain, may come roaring back from its COVID-clean practices induced slumber.

    urbanleftbehind (10f92b) — 4/20/2021 @ 2:21 pm

    According to Democrats, we really don’t need or want them around anyway. Just need some health care workers…

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  43. a verdict rendered under duress

    JF (3efb60)

  44. The local Fox affiliate has on this weird “civil rights leader” with an afro which would bring 1975 Julius Erving to his knees who is reciting the standard litany of black grievance. Not that he isn’t entitled to do so, especially under these circumstances, just to note that he isn’t saying anything that hasn’t been heard hundreds of times before, and there’s no nuance to his disquisition, it’s all just rote recitation.

    I’m wondering if the news shows will have anybody on who disagrees with the verdicts.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  45. I’m wondering if the news shows will have anybody on who disagrees with the verdicts.

    JVW (ee64e4) — 4/20/2021 @ 2:23 pm

    Maybe, if they have to show footage of the rioting and looting…for balance, you know…

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  46. How is he guilty of the same crime three times?

    2nd degree murder, 3rd degree murder and 2nd degree manslaughter. Don’t they have to pick one or the other? It’s like convicting someone of grand larceny, larceny, and petty theft for sealing the same car. I guess I’d understand if I was a lawyer.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  47. We no longer have a system of justice. Just a system of violence. Everyone has learned the ends will justify the means. Protect your families and hope to God the mob doesn’t choose to target you.

    NJRob (2b2184)

  48. Chauvin was not charged with intentionally killing George Floyd.

    Summarizing the New York Post summary of the counts, and going from least serious to most serious, the three counts were:

    1) Second-degree manslaughter: Negligence creating an unreasonable risk of death.

    2) Third-degree murder: Depraved indifference.

    Considering that Chauvin ignored a report from one of the other policemen that Floyd’s pulse had stopped, it almost goes without saying. I don’t think the jury needed to take any time at all agreeing on that.

    The problem was the top charge:

    3) Second degree murder: Unintentionally causing death but intentionally committing a felony.

    The felony would be assault.

    I think that probably means that his attempt to transport George Floyd would have at some point changed from part of a legal arrest to an illegal assault, if it isn’t that just cutting off his blood circulation to the brain by doing something not supported by the police rule book is enough for what he did to be classified as an assault, period.

    A lot probably depended on the judge’s instructions.

    It seems to me that what they call second degree murder should be third degree murder; and what they call third degree murder should be second degree murder, but that’s not the way the law is in Minnesota pr probably most places in the United States.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  49. I figured on a JVD verdict, given the time deliberated, but I figured only 2 o1f 3. Hopefully, no Jack Ruby wannabes before the Appeal

    urbanleftbehind (10f92b)

  50. There was no other choice for the jurors, they would be killed if they voted to acquit.

    Ventura Highway (18e8bb)

  51. If there are any duplications, the judge will probably throw out the superceded charges. But they are all a bit different.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  52. I heard a commentator say on the news that Derek Chauvin faces up to 45 years imprisonment. Former Minneapolis officer Mohammad Noor, who shot to death the unarmed and fentanyl-free Justine Damond, was convicted of second-degree manslaughter and third-degree murder and was sentenced to 12 1/2 years incarceration. Can a judge justify giving Chauvin more time for killing George Floyd, just to mollify the BLM crowd?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  53. The jury probably also had to determine that Derek Chauvin caused George Floyd’s death. It wasn’t a drug overdose (which is much more gradual); it wasn’t a heart attack (which is much more sudden) and it wasn’t carbon monoxide poisoning (which doesn’t happen outdoors and is also gradual)

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  54. News commentator just said that sentencing will come in approximately eight weeks.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  55. Mr. Chauvin is charged with two counts of murder — second-degree unintentional murder and third-degree murder — and the sentencing guidelines for each, for a defendant like Mr. Chauvin with no criminal history, is 12.5 years. But the maximum sentences for each charge differ: Second-degree murder could be as high as 40 years in prison, while the maximum for third-degree murder is 25 years.

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  56. A cop in prison for 12.5 years is not someone I would write a life policy on.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  57. The verdict matches what I saw on YouTube.
    Next step, reforming qualified immunity.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  58. Jason Van Dyke had to serve part of his time in “undisclosed” federal prison due to threats on his life.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  59. @52. Squeaky Fromme attempted to assassinate President Gerald Ford in 1975.

    For that crime, she was sentenced to life in prison. She was paroled from prison on August 14, 2009, after serving approximately 34 years.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  60. Greg Gutfeld’s Hot Take on Chauvin’s Guilty Verdict Draws Audible Groans from Fellow Fox News Hosts
    ……..
    Gutfeld expressed happiness that Chauvin was found guilty even if he wasn’t guilty because that kept people from looting.

    “I’m glad that he was found guilty on all charges, even if he might not be guilty of all charges, I am glad that he is guilty of all charges because I want a verdict that keeps this country from going up in flames,” Gutfeld said.

    After groans could be heard, Gutfeld got notably defensive, adding, “I’m at least being honest. My neighborhood was looted. I don’t ever want to go through that again.”

    Gutfeld’s cynical view was the outlier on the Fox News program in which nearly every person lauded the guilty verdict, perhaps best exemplified by Pirro’s lauding the decision as evidence of the American justice system working. ……..
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  61. Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison speaking on television, As he went on he got into lies. Like that the 1968 Kerner Commission was right. He quoted testimony that said the 1919 riot, and the 1935 and 1843 Harlem riots and the Watts riot were the same. The 1965 Watts riot wasn’t done by white supremacists.

    He had Michael Brown on his list of victims.

    Barack Obama really ,ade the DPJ report almost go unnoticed so that people are unaware that story is not true.

    https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/doj_report_on_shooting_of_michael_brown_1.pdf

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  62. @35

    > And police are about to take an early paid summer vacation at the donut shop.

    Any cop that incapable of emotional control clearly shouldn’t be trusted with a gun and badge. That’s a loser who should be packing groceries or maybe driving an Uber.

    john (cd2753)

  63. George Floyd’s family is about to speak. Earlier both president Joe Biden and Vice president Kamala Harris called them up. Their attorney is Benjamin Crump – Al Sharpton is around too.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  64. It’s interesting all the texts I’m getting from friends and all the comments here.

    Guys, what if the jury did its best and the evidence was strong, and Chauvin really did what he was accused of? What if the system just proved something and we’re being told, like with our elections, that our system is a joke, in order to continue to undermine America?

    I mean, DCSCA says American is the worst right? I know it’s got its problems but it’s actually not so bad here.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  65. > And police are about to take an early paid summer vacation at the donut shop.

    That’s already happening and it has been for a while. The people they are hurting the most are the couple of cops still getting into stuff to protect people. Suckers, right?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  66. Did anybody notice that nobody, for one day, protected Derek Chauvin? In court he was constantly writing which may have been a tactic by defense lawyers so he wouldn;t make eye contact with the jury.

    Each family was entitled to one person in the courtroom. There was always someone from the Floyd family – mo one from the Chauvin family showed up till late in the trial. A court deputy sat between them.

    There was also only one print reporter and pne broadcast reporter (rotating) All because of Covid restrictions.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  67. The three other policemen will also go on trial. Keith Ellison mentioned that briefly. Didn’t even say the number. Maybe they will be able to get fair trials. They certainly needed to be severed.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  68. Dustin (4237e0) — 4/20/2021 @ 3:08 pm

    Guys, what if the jury did its best and the evidence was strong, and Chauvin really did what he was accused of?

    The jurors will speak.

    The only issue could be with the top count, which might actually be highly technical. Did what Derek Chauvin did constitute the felony crime of assault? If so, even unintentionally causing George Floyd’s death amounts to second degree murder.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  69. The three other policemen will also go on trial.

    Depending on Chauvin’s sentence, they may plead out.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  70. The more they talk about rhis verdict, and praise the fact that it went this way, the more they can create the impression, in the minds of some people, that the verdict wasn’t fair and impartial.

    The Minnesota Attorney General’s office by the way, probably selected the charges to bring very carefully.

    Tthere will be a 1-hour CBS News special tonight at 10 pm.

    Nobody protected Derek Chauvin for even one day I think.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  71. Interesting philosophical question: do those who are opposed on principle to felony murder statutes have anything to say today? (note: i generally don’t like felony murder statutes, and i’m trying to think through the implications here).

    aphrael (4c4719)

  72. Earlier today, without a hint of irony……

    Kayleigh McEnany — Who Worked for Trump — Scolds Biden for Weighing in on Chauvin: The President Shouldn’t ‘Inflame Tensions’

    Kayleigh McEnany, who used to work as Donald Trump’s press secretary, went off on President Joe Biden for weighing in on the Derek Chauvin trial — insisting that presidents should refrain from inflaming tensions.

    “I’m glad that he at least waited until the jury was sequestered. But I think that the country is such a tinderbox right now, especially Minneapolis,” said McEnany on Tuesday’s Outnumbered. “There’s so much hurt, so much pain. And I think it’s the role of the president of the United States to stay back, to not inflame the tensions.”
    …….
    ……McEnany did praise him for calling the Floyd family, reminding viewers that Trump also called them following George Floyd’s fatal arrest.

    “I think he should have just reserved comment and said he’s praying for the family as we all are,” she added, clearly forgetting all the times Trump failed to keep his commentary to himself.
    ………
    Trump has also never been known to hold back or bite his tongue in an attempt to ease tensions……

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  73. When was the last time we had a president who didn’t “weigh in” in these situations? Obama did. Trump did.

    W?

    norcal (01e272)

  74. Nixon/Manson

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  75. The people they are hurting the most are the couple of cops still getting into stuff to protect people. Suckers, right?

    Remember Humphrey Bogart’s line from Casablanca? I stick my neck out for nobody.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  76. Interesting philosophical question: do those who are opposed on principle to felony murder statutes have anything to say today? (note: i generally don’t like felony murder statutes, and i’m trying to think through the implications here).

    Tell us a bit more if you would please, aphrael. What is your objection to felony murder statutes? I’ve never given the matter any thought.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  77. Biden and Harris will address the nation sometime tonight.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  78. Speaking of Dubya, my signed copy of his new book arrived today!

    Dave (1bb933)

  79. Harris too? Why? In case Biden stumbles?

    norcal (01e272)

  80. Dave,

    I’m not too proud to admit that I was dissatisfied with W at the time. However, in retrospect he looks much better.

    norcal (01e272)

  81. Any cop that incapable of emotional control clearly shouldn’t be trusted with a gun and badge. That’s a loser who should be packing groceries or maybe driving an Uber.

    Or maybe a guard on Captol Hill. Hell, even Chris Matthews was a Capitol Hill coppa.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  82. The sentences will tun concurrently because it’s all the same act/ The minimum sentence is 103.4 to 15 years. Te=he judge can take into account aggravating and mitigating factors. That’s why the maximum is 40 years. Usually maybe the time served is one quarter of the maximum. (at least Ron Kuby said it could be 2 1/2 years. counting time off for good behavior, on a crime with a 10-year maximum)

    The judge would not have to search far to find an aggravating circumstance, although it’s maybe something of a technicality here: committing the crime in front of a child. One of the witnesses was 9 years old!

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  83. I defer to the criminal lawyers out there, but I think the purpose of convicting on the successive charges (murder 2, murder 3, manslaughter 2) is to make the conviction more solid on appeal. If murder 2 is knocked down, murder 3 may still stand, etc.

    I don’t think Chauvin can be *sentenced* for the each of the concurrent offenses, but he can be convicted of them. That’s my understanding.

    Leviticus (1802aa)

  84. @64. Inaccurate, Dustin.

    ‘Sucks’ isn’t the ‘worst.’ A nation that can construct, send and fly a helicopter on the planet Mars yet cannot manage the plague of gun violence does suck. And the fallacy of ‘the rule of law’ blows.

    ____

    “President” Plagiarist gives a nationally televised speech with Nurse Kamala at his side croaking over the conviction of a cop for the murder of a black man caught passing counterfeit money. So, Joe, where’s your outrage for a still nameless Royalist Capitol Hill cop who murdered Ashli Babbitt– a white woman? Once a senator, always a senator.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  85. would like to understand the rationale for chauvin getting sentenced to more than damond’s killer

    JF (e1156d)

  86. Or maybe a guard on Captol Hill. Hell, even Chris Matthews was a Capitol Hill coppa.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 4/20/2021 @ 4:06 pm

    No doubt these guys weren’t Delta Force. They were set up to fail and underprepared. They heroically saved the country with truly minimal loss of life, though one traitor was shot dead as she refused to stop, in a situation where failure was genuinely not an option.

    Really sucks for Putin huh?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  87. It’s hard for me to say if this conviction was right. I thought manslaughter was the worst it could be and I’ve put myself in Chauvin’s shoes a bit. I’m very biased though. I think we all are.

    Maxine Waters and so many other ‘leaders’ have made this seem more like a lynching, a demanded conviction that steps around the facts. But the facts are grim and maybe the jury did their best here.

    Remember Humphrey Bogart’s line from Casablanca? I stick my neck out for nobody.

    JVW (ee64e4) — 4/20/2021 @ 3:47 pm

    Smart. And probably the future of policing. I think the problems will just get worse and worse, year after year. Technology will step in (I’m sure that’s the solution for traffic violations). Surveilliance. But parks won’t be safe for kids, property won’t be safe not bolted down, and cops who can find a new line of work probably will find it.

    you won’t go broke investing in AXON.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  88. @86. More like Delta House.

    Nothing sucks for Putin; he keeps being dealt a pair of deuces that end up winning hands. He has 100,000 troops on the Ukraine border. Watch the calendar, the moon, the weather– and cries to liberate the Ukraine from the clutches of the decadent West; revisit when Germany blitzkrieged its way in: June 22, 1941. Who’s gonna stop him — Grandpa Simpson or Pants-suit-Apu?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  89. would like to understand the rationale for chauvin getting sentenced to more than damond’s killer

    JF (e1156d) — 4/20/2021 @ 4:26 pm

    It is unlikely Chauvin will be sentenced to the full 40 years as he is a first time offender. It is more likely he will receive the same 12.5 years Mohamed Noor received.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  90. though one traitor was shot dead as she refused to stop,

    A Redcoat couldn’t have said it any better over a tankard of warm ale confiscated while occupying a Lexington tavern.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  91. @64.If you wanna play the ‘race’ and ‘ethnicity’ cards, Dustin, see #22.

    “Where’s Waldo?”

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  92. What was the capitol officer supposed to do, DCSCA? Let the horde into the secure area where the representatives and senators were?

    norcal (b44575)

  93. @92. Who? What’s his/her name? We know the names of all the others who popped blacks. It was an empty corridor; the rats had fled. Rubber bullets.

    The bastard cop took time, aimed, shot and killed an unarmed white woman precariously prone in a window frame. Plenty of videos of it

    It was murder; prosecute the SOB.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  94. Dustin demonstrates the clearest example of the Passive GoodWhite Minnesota attitude, exactly why that state and all associated with it deserves to burn en masse:

    “Guys, what if the jury did its best and the evidence was strong, and Chauvin really did what he was accused of? What if the system just proved something and we’re being told, like with our elections, that our system is a joke, in order to continue to undermine America?

    Implied: *RUSSIA* IS MAKING YOU THINK MAXINE WATERS IS AN EVIL RACE RABBLE-ROUSER, AFTER ALL, SHE’S NORMALLY SO DISCREET! AND DETROIT IS NORMALLY A PARAGON OF ELECTION INTEGRITY!

    “Maxine Waters and so many other ‘leaders’ have made this seem more like a lynching, a demanded conviction that steps around the facts. But the facts are grim and maybe the jury did their best here.”

    There’s no ‘maybe’ around the mayor and the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES outright telling the jury what the ‘right’ verdict is. Niceities like ‘privacy’ mean diddly squat when the President AND the lying press is working together.

    “I think the problems will just get worse and worse, year after year. Technology will step in (I’m sure that’s the solution for traffic violations). Surveilliance. But parks won’t be safe for kids, property won’t be safe not bolted down, and cops who can find a new line of work probably will find it.”

    “you won’t go broke investing in AXON.”

    I CAN SEE HOW HORRIFICALLY PUNISHING A PUBLIC SERVANT WILL AFFECT POLICING AND SOCIETY FOR THE WORST, BUT I’M NOT GOING TO PERFORM OR ENCOURAGE ANY ACTION TO STOP THESE PEOPLE AND I KNOW THAT LETTING THEM RUN WILD IS BAD FOR CIVIC HEALTH BUT GOSH IT’S JUST TOO HARD TO TAKE ANY EFFECTIVE ACTION…HEY WHATEVER, INVEST IN SECURITY TECH STOCKS FOLKS!

    “Nobody protected Derek Chauvin for even one day I think.”

    See above. Minnesota is a jury of nobody’s peers. Anyone who tried to protect Chauvin under their own name and face get the media and the mob sent after them.

    All of this folderol is not argument, it is excuse-making and deflecting implied blame for your own very real failures to make a difference. You deserve to have your families, fortunes, and neighborhoods die painfully in any future mayhem for your cowardly passivity, not even willing to speak basic truths under a pseudonym!

    Jeremiah Jertssson (caa430)

  95. There are a lot of grounds for appeal but Maxine Waters is the least. If any at all. She is not a court error (a mistake of nature, well, you know, that’s something else), and I doubt that an appellate court would second-guess the judge on the denial of the motion for mistrial. But they very well may on the denial of a change of venue.

    But grounds do not equal success. The thing is, comrades, a defendant is not denied a fair trial just because the whole world has witnessed the crime and the guilt is overwhelmingly evident.

    nk (1d9030)

  96. The system worked. Seems like good news.

    Nic (896fdf)

  97. @96.The system worked. Seems like good news.

    Tell that to Ashli Babbitt.

    Oh. Wait. She was shot dead.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  98. But grounds do not equal success. The thing is, comrades, a defendant is not denied a fair trial just because the whole world has witnessed the crime and the guilt is overwhelmingly evident.

    That’s true, nk. But combine what Congresswoman Waters said with the various statements coming from Governor Walz and Mayor Frey, and factor in the fortress-style set up of the county court area and the admission by actual impanelled jurors that they feared further rioting and looting, then add the unusual timing of the settlement ($27 million?) that the county made with the Floyd family, and it’s starting to look like not only did the state stack the deck, but they also allowed the prosecution to cut the cards (if I can be forgiven for stretching a poker metaphor perhaps too far). None of those on its own screams “unfair trial,” but taken in totality it seems like it was something of a rigged game with Chauvin as the sucker (to extend the tired metaphor).

    JVW (ee64e4)

  99. Oh. Wait. She was shot dead.

    Trump’s traitorous tart got what she deserved.

    Dave (1bb933)

  100. Trump’s traitorous tart got what she deserved.
    Dave (1bb933) — 4/20/2021 @ 6:18 pm

    Careful, Dave. As Clint Eastwood said in The Unforgiven:

    “We all got it coming, kid.”

    Hoi Polloi (b28058)

  101. I mean, DCSCA says American is the worst right? I know it’s got its problems but it’s actually not so bad here.

    The press and the politicians may be the worst ever, but maybe the’ve just been terrible all along. The people, left alone, are pretty decent.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  102. Trump’s traitorous tart got what she deserved.

    That karma wheel isn’t supposed to go that way.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  103. >>Oh. Wait. She was shot dead.

    Trump’s traitorous tart got what she deserved.

    Ms Babbitt was the first one into a no-go secured zone and the cop that shot her had reasons to bar all entry. Sucks to be her, but the “brave” guys behind her who helped her through might have known the danger she was in.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  104. I’m sure that’s the solution for traffic violations

    We have that now here, and they do just what you’d expect — they put the speed truck right below the crest of a hill. Speed traps never change.

    What we need is a system that isn’t a lynch mob; in either direction. The first step will be for police to police themselves. OUT THE MOFOs. Set up a cryptographically secure, Bayesian process where the guy that 123 officers says is a nogoodnick is fired but the retaliatory badmouthing is clearly from cranks.

    Everyone in the department knows the goons.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  105. @97 The system worked on her too. She broke into the capital building and was using force to enter a secured area during an attempt at insurrection. The insurrectionists were lucky they weren’t mowed down en-masse.

    Do you know what happens if you find yourself in a secured area in the wrong way on a military base? Even in uniform? Even unarmed? Even with ID showing? Even if you aren’t doing anything other than standing or sitting peacefully? Even if the MPs know you? You either immediately hit the deck face down with your arms spread out flat to the side, perpendicular to your body, or you could get shot by the MPs. Thems the choices and thems the rules. She knew and chose to disregard.

    Nic (896fdf)

  106. do you know what happens when you riot, break windows, set fires and loot downtown businesses?

    not a thing

    JF (e1156d)

  107. @JF@106 “Between May 30 and June 2 2020, the height of the racial justice protests, 427 “unrest-related” arrests were made in D.C., including 24 juveniles, the police department says.” (Forbes)

    Nic (896fdf)

  108. “14,000. That’s the estimated number of arrests made across 49 U.S. cities during anti-racism protests last summer, according to the Washington Post.” (forbes 1/07/2021)

    Nic (896fdf)

  109. “Everyone in the department knows the goons.”

    And the ghettos who operate under the ‘stop snitchin’ rule deserve nothing less. Indeed, people like Chauvin are far too good for people like Floyd. We should honestly make the multinational corporations and the inevitable low-wage immigrant owners who insist on working downtown pay for their own policing-if they like this country so much they can pay to clean up the streets themselves.

    “Set up a cryptographically secure, Bayesian process

    That obviously fad-driven statement alone should disqualify you from commenting on any policing and serving on any jury for a lifetime.

    Schoolyard Bully (f68d53)

  110. oh my, arrests

    JF (e1156d)

  111. @99. Trump’s traitorous tart got what she deserved.

    =sigh= Really…

    “‘Tokyo Rose’ ceased to be merely a symbol during September 1945 when Iva Toguri D’Aquino, a Japanese-American disc jockey for a propagandist radio program, attempted to return to the United States. Toguri was accused of being the “real” Tokyo Rose, arrested, tried, and became the seventh person in U.S. history to be convicted of treason.Toguri was eventually paroled from prison in 1956, but it was more than 20 years later that she received an official presidential pardon {Gerad Ford] for her role in the war.” -source, wikitreasonusbabes.hubbahubba

    Neanderthal thinking.

    Idiot.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  112. @103. …the cop that shot and KILLED her…

    FIFY.

    Which cop? Who? What’s his or her name? Where’s the trial: Innocent until proven guilty– nothing to worry about but if it was a clean hoot.

    Except, as w/t Floyd/Chauvin videos, it just might not be.

    Let a jury decide.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  113. And the ghettos who operate under the ‘stop snitchin’ rule deserve nothing less. Indeed, people like Chauvin are far too good for people like Floyd.

    so you’re glad Floyd was killed?

    Time123 (36651d)

  114. Oh. Wait. She was shot dead.

    Trump’s traitorous tart got what she deserved.

    Dave (1bb933) — 4/20/2021 @ 6:18 pm

    Gross.

    Time123 (36651d)

  115. I have to disagree with DCSCA here:

    “Neanderthal thinking.”

    Don’t dishonor the Neanderthals that way, after all, these preening little liberal quislings (that occasionally pretend to be an Eternally Offended Conservative) all talk big about HOLDING POLICE ACCOUNTABLE but turn into extremely caricatured patriots and USE-OF-FORCE EXPERTS as soon as their political enemies suffer actual unprecedented, unusual, and gratuitous police abuse.

    Such ignoble creatures are usually squirmy worms around half Chauvin’s size and don’t have the upper body strength to even effectively secure someone of, say Chris Rock‘s stature by themselves. So naturally, they compensate.

    In other words, their statements and opinions are as flimsy and shaky as their lifts.

    Chonk Cru (bff29a)

  116. @105. The U.S. Capitol is not a military base, Nic.

    Hell, Nic, I was inside the frigging Kremlin in Soviet times and didn’t observe the kind of military security you’re describing- let alone fear getting shot. They’re biggest worry was scuffing up the highly waxed floors[no kidding.]

    OTOH, the Kremlin has a wall; the U.S. Capitol, a mere razor-wire fence of late. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  117. @115. That’s swiped from President Plagiarist; plagiarism is now acceptable; very ‘in’ these days thanks to The Joe Show. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  118. @JF@110 Arrests. Which are actually a thing that was done, and are not a “nothing”.

    Nic (896fdf)

  119. We can all lament the death of George Floyd while still acknowledging that his lifestyle choices in general and his actions on May 25 of last year put him in great harm, and we can worry that Derek Chauvin might not have been tried under entirely fair circumstances.

    We can all lament the death of Ashli Babbit while still acknowledging that the decisions she made on and around January 6 put her in great harm, and it’s not completely beyond the pale to wonder if the Justice Department was simply protecting its buddies at the Capitol Police when it chose to close its investigation without bringing any charges.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  120. JVW, You made a great point. It bothers me when people celebrate death for a cheap laugh.

    Time123 (36651d)

  121. Swell. Al Sharpton was there.

    Tawana Brawley; ’nuff said.

    =mike drop=

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  122. 119.… and it’s not completely beyond the pale to wonder if the Justice Department was simply protecting its buddies at the Capitol Police when it chose to close its investigation without bringing any charges.

    Precisely.

    W/t help and encouragement of The Royalists behind he drawbridge whose desks and podiums they protect.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  123. @DCSCA@116 Were you in the Kremlin during an insurrection attempt? As an American, getting shot would’ve been the least of your worries.

    It was a secure zone in the US Capitol in the middle of an insurrection attempt.

    My father worked the flight-line. He ended up face-down more than once because a crew chief wandered off to check something and you weren’t allowed to be on the flight-line alone for security reasons. I have toured several command bunkers (they clear various areas and do a tour for dependents every few years.) If you got lost from a tour, you were to sit your butt down on the floor where-ever you got lost and not move until you are found because you could be shot if you ended up in a non-cleared area. I’ve attended church with the SACEUR and one memorable time was the student escort for a 4 star general who was speaking at a student awards ceremony. I have been evacuated from a base school due to a bomb-threat with the instructions that if we returned to campus before it was cleared, we could be run down by the patrol dogs on the assumption that we were bombers. My dad knew someone whose wife drove their new car (no sticker yet, but she had an ID, so she was allowed to drive into the secure zone) into the headquarter’s parking lot to show it to him and while she was gone to wait for him in the lobby the MPs found the car, took it away and blew it up. Security is not a joke on a military base.

    Nic (896fdf)

  124. (actually, I think they moved the other cars away and blew it up. The thing they moved a blew up was a forgotten briefcase left in the headquarters cafeteria. Sorry for conflating those two issues of the MPs blowing stuff up at a headquarters)

    Nic (896fdf)

  125. @123. Were you in the Kremlin during an insurrection attempt? As an American, getting shot would’ve been the least of your worries.

    That was not an insurrection, Nic. And getting shot would have been the end my worries.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  126. @123. And Nic, the hardest place to ‘get into’ in Moscow wasn’t the Kremlin, or Lenin’s Tomb, or the pants of the girls on the trip with us– it was literally the United States Embassy.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  127. It was an insurrection attempt. Just because they weren’t very good at it doesn’t mean it wasn’t what it was.

    And exactly it would have been the end of your worries. The other options for things that could’ve happened to a westerner at the Kremlin during a similar event? perhaps less so.

    Nic (896fdf)

  128. @DCSCA@126 While I’m sure that the US Embassy was difficult to get into, I’m quite sure there were other places in/near Moscow that were as or more difficult to get into. They probably didn’t show them to westerners though.

    Nic (896fdf)

  129. The insurrectionists were lucky they weren’t mowed down en-masse.

    There was no “insurrection”- that’s a media label just as an “illegal alien” is an illegal alien, not an “undocumented immigrant.”

    But if ‘mowed down en-masse’ is a mind set– it’s very ‘Redcoatish,’ circa 1775- the sort of thing you’d hear one of His Majesty’s officers quip sipping warm ale in a Lexington tavern the evening of April 19, 1775.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  130. @128. Russian girls pants, Nic. But then, they didn’t shave their legs. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  131. @DCSCA@129 I mean, from the British point of view, the American Revolutionaries were a rebellion and deserved to be mowed down. We just think differently because we won, but I can certainly understand what it looked like from their side.

    Nic (896fdf)

  132. It was an insurrection attempt. Just because they weren’t very good at it doesn’t mean it wasn’t what it was.

    Some journos in (or at) the Capitol heard MAGAheads speaking of their desire to execute Pence or Pelosi in public. Chants of “Hang Mike Pence” can be heard in videos. Is everyone confident that the gallows was placed outside only to make a rhetorical point?
    The MAGA mob injured scores of cops, some seriously. (One of the post-riot suicides was because of a severe, constant headache from the assault by the mob.)

    Trumpers were talking of civil war, 1776, punishing traitors, etc. One of the organizers posted a comment saying that armed reinforcements had stationed themselves around the perimeter of the city.

    The fervent Trumpers showed a clear intent to change the outcome of the election by intimidation, at least. It’s certainly in the realm of possible that the raging mob might have applied lethal force against people they deemed traitors to America.

    Radegunda (aea52f)

  133. Radegunda,

    their larping didn’t result in a single shot being fired by the larpers but did result in the murder of Ms. Babbitt. We do know the violence and shots fired by the mob in this trial had their intended result, including shots fired after that disgrace of a congresswoman threatened the jury and the city for not convicting in this case.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  134. Nor Cal, you are garbage, a shame on the state, Cal is a mess you are the problem. I dislike police. Consider a necessary evil. You are worse than trash.

    Ventura Highway (cad170)

  135. Hey Patty ? Will you weigh in ?

    [Our host may or may not weigh in, but I certainly will. You are on warning for your disrespectful comment to norcal. I think our host would probably put you in comment moderation at this point, but I am a lot more lenient than he is. But know that if you don’t tone it down, you will face at the very least comment moderation, and you might end up with an outright ban. So knock it off. – JVW]

    Ventura Highway (cad170)

  136. 100th anniversary of tulsa may 31 1921 race riot. My grand mother watched airplanes drop bombs on the black area of the city. A military vehicle mounting a machine gun drove thru the black area firing into houses.

    asset (1a06e5)

  137. DCSCA — they stormed the capital with the intent of “persuading’ congress to reject the certification of electoral votes. what’s the necessary attribute of an insurrection which is missing?

    aphrael (4c4719)

  138. Let a jury decide.

    Like Lt Calley, the folks who gave the orders never have to appear.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  139. In particular, the place Babbitt broke into was part of the route that was secured for the later evacuation of Congress and its employees.

    Suppose someone tried to break through the security cordon around the President, at the front of an armed mob. What do you think would happen? These guys got off light.

    Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  140. 94. Jeremiah Jertssson (caa430) — 4/20/2021 @ 5:16 pm

    There’s no ‘maybe’ around the mayor and the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES outright telling the jury what the ‘right’ verdict is.

    T that point (when Biden answered a question) the jury was sequestered. (some people claimed that the jury should have been sequestered all the time, but this more often happens when deliberations begin)

    They were telling the mob and potential rioters what the `right’ verdict was – or rather Biden wasn’t but the news media were saying they knew what it was.

    “Nobody protected Derek Chauvin for even one day I think.”

    I meant by that that nobody tried to cover it up from the daay it happened.

    It’s one thing to demand an investigation. It’s another thing to protest when you are getting everything you want. They were protesting, apparently, that it happened. That is like protesting school shooters. It was in support of a lie.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  141. 109. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 4/20/2021 @ 8:16 pm

    just as an “illegal alien” is an illegal alien, not an “undocumented immigrant.”

    No longer. Use of the term “illegal alien” is to stop, by orders of President Biden.

    https://www.npr.org/2021/04/19/988789487/immigration-agencies-ordered-not-to-use-term-illegal-alien-under-new-biden-polic

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  142. 109. Schoolyard Bully (f68d53) — 4/20/2021 @ 7:06 pm.

    We should honestly make the multinational corporations and the inevitable low-wage immigrant owners who insist on working downtown pay for their own policing

    That’s NOT what should be done. If you think that some areas ought to be abandoned, then it should be illegal to employ anyone there. OSHA violation.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  143. 116. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 4/20/2021 @ 7:37 pm

    I was inside the frigging Kremlin in Soviet times and didn’t observe the kind of military security you’re describing

    Somebody landed an airplane in Red Square in 1987 – but that was considered a lapse.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20609795

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  144. Chauvin’s bail was revoked upon conviction. The trial of the other three officers is scheduled for Agust 23, and the state wants to upgrade the charges from aiding and abetting.

    The $27 million settlement is basically a non-issue as, because it was a settlement, no facts were determined (if the jury realized that) and the jury is not bound by any decision in another forum anyway, (which was probably made clear to them by the judge) and it could even be interpreted (albeit incorrectly) as shifting the blame away from Chauvin. (I think the city could be held liable even if they did nothing wrong, simply because Chauvin was an agent of the city and the fact he was a policeman made it far more possible for him to do what he did. But they can always pretend some policy wrt hiring or discipline was wrong)

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  145. So. After the verdict. Where dem riots at?

    nk (1d9030)

  146. Ventura Highway, was your attack on norcal in response to some comment I’m not seeing. Because if that’s just out of the blue… bizarre.

    nate_w (1f1d55)

  147. Gallows or guillotines? The chilling debate on TheDonald.win before the Capitol siege
    In the weeks before supporters of then-President Donald Trump assaulted the U.S. Capitol, TheDonald.win forum commenters debated how best to build a gallows for hanging — or simply terrifying — members of Congress deemed disloyal. What kind of lumber? What kind of rope? And how many nooses?

    A user named “Camarokirk” had a different suggestion: “I think you should build a guillotine,” he wrote Dec. 30. “A guillotine is more scary.”

    User AsaNisiMAGA countered with a practical concern: “It’s better symbolism in every way. But it might prove more difficult to get that big blade into town.”

    Such conversations flowed freely and visibly on TheDonald.win for weeks, underscoring the openly violent intent of some of the thousands of Trump enthusiasts who thronged the Capitol on Jan. 6, as well as the intelligence failures of the authorities charged with preparing for that day. ……
    …….
    Cached versions of the comments on the now-defunct site show the chilling precision and pragmatism of the advanced planning for an assault……..
    ……..
    “I’LL BE THERE, AND I’LL BE WILD, SIR!!!” wrote user donaldismydad on TheDonald.win.

    BathouseBarry wrote, “And we will be armed, and we won’t leave.”

    Soon Trump’s supporters were trading travel tips, maps, money for gas, plans for cross-country caravans and hotel suggestions. One user described using his federal stimulus payment to help others go to Washington.

    Users of TheDonald.win also shared advice on bringing firearms into Washington as well as how much ammunition to carry in case the protest turned into a gun battle, and they discussed the legality of carrying other weapons, such as stun guns and small knives, that might not violate the city’s strict gun-control laws.

    Other subjects of discussion were the proper length and brand of zip ties for detaining members of Congress and how to use a flagpole and other objects to attack police officers.

    Users of TheDonald.win also shared diagrams of the tunnel systems beneath the Capitol complex and speculated on how pushing the mob from behind could create a “wall of death” that would force police officers to abandon their positions. The prospect of a potentially violent clash with the Capitol Police officers charged with protecting the building did not appear to concern some of those chatting on TheDonald.win.

    “Cops don’t have ‘standing’ if they are laying on the ground in a pool of their own blood,” wrote a user.
    ………
    “Get ready to occupy the Capitol Building,” a user wrote Dec. 27. “Find the tunnels. Arrest the worst traitors…. We need over a million angry people; at least 100k armed. Let them try to hurt us as civilians. Their support will collapse overnight.”

    Another user wrote of the presidential vote certification process scheduled for Jan. 6, “If they ‘certify’ biden, we storm capitol hill. Executions on the steps.”

    Another user gave detailed instructions for a prolonged attack, writing “Keep your guns hidden (outside DC proper), walk into DC (good boots a must), bring your plate carrier, your flag, radio and charging kits (NO PHONES), your trauma kits (3 tourniquets, quick clot, packing), gas mask and extra filter (you need to be clean shaven), water (3L minimum per person) and food … How many people can a dead patriot save? none.”

    The same user also suggested “180 rounds minimum for main rifle, another 50 for sidearm, per person.”

    The debate over building a guillotine or gallows ultimately got resolved in favor of a gallows, which commenters estimated could be built for as little as $200 in supplies.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  148. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0097083 It was used in a fictional crime.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  149. There’s nothing worse than a badge with an attitude. We need to get rid of presumptive immunity for police.

    Were I on the jury, I would have voted to convict. Maybe not on all counts, but on some. There must be accountability.

    Perhaps none of you have heard of the Great Fajita Robbery. This guy, he worked for the Harlingen Community Center, for troubled teens. He ordered fajitas, and sausage and chicken on the side.

    He set up this network, whereby he could steal thousands of dollars of meat products.

    In the end, the judge sentenced him to fifty years. 50 years! For stealing fajitas.

    Chauvin better hope he gets sentenced to protective custody. Anytime out in the yard is a death sentence. He’s a wanted man, at this point.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  150. @137. Ever seen a soccer riot? So Footballers are insurrectionists?!

    That was not an insurrection, not matter how much the media wants to label it so.

    If the Capitol Cop who murdered whie wom Ashii Babbitt is black or brown, it doesn’t fit the narrative.

    Does it.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  151. When will the Navy build the USS George Floyd? Asking for a friend.

    Horatio (b3ba2e)

  152. Do you have a better term for it, DCSCA?

    norcal (01e272)

  153. Tonya Reiman on Derek Chauvin’s body language:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2n6BgWYvUHU

    She’s also been WABC 770 AM radio early early in the morning on Frank Morano’s show

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)


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