Patterico's Pontifications

2/10/2021

Impeachment Open Thread

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:01 pm



I mean, it’s late in the day, but I had to get up early for downtown court appearances (we still make them sometimes!) and I never wrote a post. And there was some big event or another going on in Washington. If you have thoughts, lay them on us.

117 Responses to “Impeachment Open Thread”

  1. Hawley had his feet up and was intent on looking distracted.

    Rubio, who said only third world countries prosecute their former leaders, has been saying hey if you want to do something about Trump prosecute him.

    Turns out Ted Cruz understands you can try someone out of office; just not a guy from the same party who called your wife ugly and tried to steal an election. That dude gets a pass.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. Hawley is going to see the Capitol riot, particularly the part with cops getting hit, in every campaign until he is drive from politics. The way to get them to vote for conviction is to make it a less awful, and short-term, problem that having to deal with it forever.

    Hawley and Cruz are really smart people, doing a terribly bad miscalculation. Trump will be dead before all that long, and they will still be watching those videos from their opponents.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  3. It’s also a bad THING they are doing, not that that matters to them.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  4. Did you catch the bit about the 44 Americans on Flight 93, and their patriotism? It seems like I heard that number just recently.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  5. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.

    How far we have fallen.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  6. Can we start calling this the Flight 93 impeachment.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  7. If you have thoughts, lay them on us.

    “When the miller is the grist.”

    nk (1d9030)

  8. This is a farce of a trial. It’s clear the Constitution prohibits trying former officers – only current ines can be tried. It’s removal AND barring. It’s a proper AND – bar but not remove makes no sense.

    It’s crazy how the people who say Trump is bad for the country and the Constitution now want to violate it because they say he’s so bad. It’s clear this is it about the Constitution but about partisanship.

    Bill OReilly (72569b)

  9. *ones
    *not about the Constitution.

    Bill OReilly (72569b)

  10. This is a farce of a trial. It’s clear the Constitution prohibits trying former officers – only current ines can be tried.

    You were schooled on that yesterday, Bill. Even a greaseball slimeface like Cruz doesn’t agree with you, and nor does precedent.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  11. Whoa:

    EXCLUSIVE-Dozens of former Republican officials in talks to form anti-Trump third party

    Feb 10 (Reuters) – Dozens of former Republican officials, who view the party as unwilling to stand up to former President Donald Trump and his attempts to undermine U.S. democracy, are in talks to form a center-right breakaway party, four people involved in the discussions told Reuters.

    The early stage discussions include former elected Republicans, former officials in the Republican administrations of Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush and Trump, ex-Republican ambassadors and Republican strategists, the people involved say.

    More than 120 of them held a Zoom call last Friday to discuss the breakaway group, which would run on a platform of “principled conservatism,” including adherence to the Constitution and the rule of law – ideas those involved say have been trashed by Trump.

    I’m fresh out of optimism, but as someone once said, “We’ll see what happens.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  12. It would seem pretty significant that while the mob was hunting for Pence, (and presumably the Secret Service with Pence was aware of this) that Trump was tweeting an attack on Pence. But hey Republican Senators have a vested interest in not noticing things like that.

    And Bill, the phrase removal and subsequent barring could also be interpreted as a list of possible results. “you can’t go farther than the store and the post office” doesn’t necessarily mean you have to go to both.

    More significant, if you are an originalist, and I thought all Good Republicans these days insist that Originalism is the only Constitutional Method possible, is that when the Framers were writing the Constitution, impeachment was widely understood to include impeaching officials after they left office. Those were in fact the only two contemporary British examples. If we are to think that “impeachment” in the Constitution means something different we would have expected the Framers to say so.

    Victor (4959fb)

  13. Best Career Ending Performance:

    Pierre Delecto literally running away from “danger.”

    No Yeltsin in that Mormon.

    Hell, even Dubya stood tall and ducked a thrown shoe.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  14. La. sen. kennady said neera tandem called bernie sanders every thing ;but an ignorant slut at her senate confirmation hearing. It will be interesting as mr. spock says to see how bernie votes on her confirmation. Perhaps he will make allowances for neera being hillary clinton’s ignorant slut.

    asset (a2f756)

  15. @11. The early stage discussions include former elected Republicans, former officials in the Republican administrations of Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, George W. Bush and Trump, ex-Republican ambassadors and Republican strategists, the people involved say.

    ROFLMAOPIP

    “You can’t cheat an honest man. Never give a sucker an even break or smarten up a chump.” – Larson E. Whipsnade [W.C. Fields] ‘You Can’t Cheat An Honest Man’ 1939

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  16. To honor BHM, Dead Mistah Johnny’s insight on incite:

    “If you didn’t drink bleach, you can’t impeach.” 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  17. Idiot:

    Yeltsin was surrounded by friendly army, and standing on a friendly tank.

    Romney and his lone aide were unknowingly walking unarmed toward a blood-thirsty mob of fascists carrying baseball bats who one minute earlier had broken into the capitol through a window on the floor directly below, when they encountered a police officer running toward them at full speed and shouting to get out in the other direction before it was too late.

    Dave (1bb933)

  18. Trump tweeted: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution”

    This communication was AFTER Trump knew the Capitol was being attacked with Pence inside. That’s all anyone should ever need to know about the former President.

    noel (9fead1)

  19. It’s clear that Trump did what he’s accused of. He lied about the election fraud for months and convinced a large number of his dumba$$ supporters that he needed them to march to capital to disrupt the certification.

    It’s also clear that the Republican base doesn’t really care about that.

    Right wing media doesn’t really care about that.

    Republican elected officials don’t really care about that.

    There are few (dozen+) GOP congress people that care. But mostly the party is a collection of people that don’t care about our country or it’s constitution and laws. Sad really. I doubt the DEMs have much more adherence to those values and it’s easy to think of prominent Dems who might try similar things now that it’s clear there’s no consequence.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  20. A Trump supporter denigrating Romney for exiting before the rioters could get their hands on him? That’s rich. Isn’t Trump the one with 24/7 Secret Service protection?

    noel (9fead1)

  21. “…and I’ll be there with you”

    Of course you will, Donald. Of course you will.

    noel (9fead1)

  22. Boris Yeltsin was a lot of things that Mitt Romney is not: A terminal alcoholic, a second-tier Soviet apparatchik, a bagman for the Russian Mafia in the pocket of the oligarchs, a door-mat for Bill Clinton, a catspaw for Vladimir Putin which may very well be his only redeeming feature because Putin was the leader Russia needed, ….

    nk (1d9030)

  23. not the leader they needed mr nk but the leader they deserved

    Dave (1bb933)

  24. bone spur flareups are very unpredictable mr noel

    Dave (1bb933)

  25. Noel,

    What’s really rich is the other Senator from Utah trying to make a big deal of exactly how he was quoted when the real point was that Tuberville told Trump Pence was being evacuated, before Trump attacked Pence with a tweet.

    Though it still bewilders me how the Secret Service was telling everybody, including Trump’s Secret Service, that they were in the process of evacuating Pence and his nuclear football.

    Victor (4959fb)

  26. “bone spur flareups”

    haha. I should have thought of that.

    noel (9fead1)

  27. Pierre Delecto literally running away from “danger.”

    I’m imagining if Romney had not done that, if you’d have praised his courage or called him an idiot totally at fault for getting lynched five minutes later.

    BTW Trump ran away from this scene too after promising to come.

    Romney and Trump, both fortunate sons, know how to stay away from the scene.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  28. I think yesterday was the impeachment managers trying to give us the second draft of history. They did fine. It’s a pity that the GOP and the Trump media complex don’t care.

    Yesterday is one Mike Pence might remember. He received more praise from Democrats in one day than he had received for his entire pre 1-6-21 lifetime.

    The question is – how will the defense respond? I don’t have a clue. Since the outcome isn’t in doubt, they may play it cautiously. But since the big guy has a vision of his defense and he has a bad habit of stiffing his help for any reason, they might do the full voter fraud just to make sure they get their bills paid…

    Appalled (1a17de)

  29. Pierre Delecto literally running away from “danger.”

    I’m imagining if Romney had not done that, if you’d have praised his courage or called him an idiot totally at fault for getting lynched five minutes later.

    BTW Trump ran away from this scene too after promising to come.

    Romney and Trump, both fortunate sons, know how to stay away from the scene.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 2/11/2021 @ 6:38 am

    I’d hope a 70 year old mad with no combat training would run away from a violent mob.

    Time123 (ea2b98)

  30. …and I’ll be there with you

    Should be a bumper sticker. On billboards. It’s so Donald Trump.

    noel (9fead1)

  31. I think yesterday was the impeachment managers trying to give us the second draft of history. They did fine. It’s a pity that the GOP and the Trump media complex don’t care.

    Yesterday is one Mike Pence might remember. He received more praise from Democrats in one day than he had received for his entire pre 1-6-21 lifetime.

    The question is – how will the defense respond? I don’t have a clue. Since the outcome isn’t in doubt, they may play it cautiously. But since the big guy has a vision of his defense and he has a bad habit of stiffing his help for any reason, they might do the full voter fraud just to make sure they get their bills paid…

    Appalled (1a17de) — 2/11/2021 @ 6:43 am

    I assume this case is a loss leader being done for advertising purposes. It’s not like it took a lot of their time.

    Time123 (ea2b98)

  32. Dustin,

    Not a single Congress critter elected to face the raging mob. They fled. They hid. Even the ones who like to pack heat stayed safe. It’s not like Jim Jordan (and the like) got out there to urge their followers on or tell them to go home.

    This doesn’t make them cowards. Romney getting killed through “heroics” would have accomplished NOTHING. Even Audie Murphy, if he had been caught without firearms, would have taken shelter and obeyed the orders of people tasked to defend the capitol.

    DCSCA’s comment deserves Dave’s “Idiot!” Comparing Romney to Trump here is unjust.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  33. House managers say the call [to Lee/Tuberville] took place shortly after 2 p.m. Pence was evacuated from the chamber at about 2:15 p.m. and Trump sent his tweet attacking Pence at 2:24 pm. The entire Senate was cleared by about 2:30pm.

    How do you say motherf***er in Scottish-German?

    nk (1d9030)

  34. nk,
    I mean if we wanted to keep this going longer we could depose everybody around Trump, and Trump himself, about what exactly he knew in the period, say 1:00-3:00 when the capitol was being stormed and Pence and others chased out of the chambers. But it’s not like it was a real mystery.

    Senators don’t have to limit themselves to the charge of the impeachment (I think, and who is to stop them?) They could say whatever the incitement was, Trump’s negligence, inactivity and violation of his oath to defend the Constitution was reasons enough for impeachment.

    Victor (4959fb)

  35. a blood-thirsty mob

    Maybe if they had just burnt down the building, we’d be calling them “mostly peaceful,” like Antifa or BLM…

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  36. @35, the Rally was mostly peaceful. The terrorists that attacked the capital weren’t. See how that works?

    Time123 (66d88c)

  37. Here’s the former Treasurer of Ohio, announcing his candidacy for the QOP senate nomination in 2022:

    “I think over time, we’re going to see studies come out that evidence widespread fraud,” he claimed. “You know, what you see with any type of fraud, it usually takes time to investigate it and to dig it out, and it might be months, it might be years, it might be decades. But I think when we look back on this election, we’ll see in large part that it was stolen from President Trump.”

    Bat. Sh*t. Crazy.

    Dave (1bb933)

  38. In the meantime, the real blood thirsty mob took down Gina Carano because only leftism is allowed to be spoken in public.

    Ignore the culture at your peril.

    NJRob (0f6b9e)

  39. Dave,

    Someday, there will be proof. Not today. Not tomorrow. It may be decades. But keep the faith. It was a steal. Elect me, and will figure out some way of proving it. Really. Honest. Believe me, not your eyes, which are deceived by the Evil One (psst, get thee behind me Satan. They might see you and that would look bad). I’ve got the 1776 Project and Project Veritas on it.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  40. I had to look up Gina Carano, even though I did watch the entire first season of The Mandalorian. Her performance on the show was worse than forgettable, it was horrible. You’d think that a would-be actress that talentless would at least avoid public controversy.

    nk (1d9030)

  41. In the meantime, the real blood thirsty mob took down Gina Carano because only leftism is allowed to be spoken in public.

    Ignore the culture at your peril.

    NJRob (0f6b9e) — 2/11/2021 @ 8:35 am

    First they came for Gina Carano and I didn’t speak up because who cares if an ex-MMA fighter who is now a hammy actor in a supporting role doesn’t get her contract renewed after she compared the modern conservative movement with Jews being killed in the holocaust.

    Sorry, couldn’t resist the snark. I’m not passionate about this, but I think firing her was a mistake. Her comment was stupid but she should have been given a chance to re-think it and clarify it.

    At leas they didn’t drop her because of her age or weight…so progress?

    Time123 (ea2b98)

  42. Yes, Rob, a violent fascist mob attempting a coup to overthrow democracy pales in comparison to an air-headed bimbo getting fired from a teevee show.

    Dave (1bb933)

  43. PS I feel the same way about Meghan Markle saying she would leave America if Trump was elected in 2016. Who do those people think they are? Before this last century, they were considered little better than prostitutes.

    nk (1d9030)

  44. Someday, there will be proof. Not today. Not tomorrow. It may be decades.

    Not so! MyPillow Guy had the Absolute Proof last week.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  45. @35, the Rally was mostly peaceful. The terrorists that attacked the capital weren’t. See how that works?

    Time123 (66d88c) — 2/11/2021 @ 7:56 am

    Great! Now do BLM/Antifa.

    Remember – BLM has killed more innocents that the bloody thirsty Capitol mob…

    Why aren’t we prosecuting BLM/Antifa?

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  46. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/10/2021 @ 9:15 pm

    Did you catch the bit about the 44 Americans on Flight 93, and their patriotism? It seems like I heard that number just recently.

    Yes I noticed the same number, but I also noticed that they said that what was clearly Flight 93 was headed toward the Capitol which is correct, but it took several years and more for that to become universally acknowledged. (The George W Bush Administration thought it was the White House, and later they said it was uncertain)

    Saying just like that that it was the Capitol is still enough to surprise me. But it’s correct. A description (something like legislature) written by al Qaeda almost certainly refer to that and te Capitol is much more a symbol of the United States of America than the White House

    s

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  47. In the meantime, the real blood thirsty mob took down Gina Carano because only leftism is allowed to be spoken in public.

    Ignore the culture at your peril.

    NJRob (0f6b9e) — 2/11/2021 @ 8:35 am

    I had to look her up too. Seriously, going full Godwin and comparing political differences to the systematic murder of 6 million Jews, and then expecting that to have no impact on your career? Virtually any other business would done the same, and especially one as image conscious as Disney. She is stupider than she looks.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  48. 8. ill OReilly (72569b) — 2/10/2021 @ 10:33 pm.

    It’s clear the Constitution prohibits trying former officers – only current ones can be tried. It’s removal AND barring.

    The opposite – that impeachment is not limited to persons currently in office and that article II Section 4 does not establish the power of impeachment, but makes removal automatic upon conviction – is so clear that when the House managers finished with their pre-buttal on that point, Trump’s lawyers had no arguments left – and Bruce Castor said so.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  49. Time123, appalled,

    I definitely agree Romney was right to get away from the crowd and didn’t mean to suggest otherwise. The truth is that had any of the Senators or Reps tried to be a hero, it would have played into Trump’s hands. They would have become hostages and the events of the day would have been far far worse.

    Running was common sense. My point was less important… A Trump voter mocking Romney when Trump actually promised to be there and also hid is just hilarious.

    Dustin (a3d2a0)

  50. First they came for Gina Carano and I didn’t speak up because who cares if an ex-MMA fighter who is now a hammy actor in a supporting role doesn’t get her contract renewed after she compared the modern conservative movement with Jews being killed in the holocaust.

    Sorry, couldn’t resist the snark. I’m not passionate about this, but I think firing her was a mistake. Her comment was stupid but she should have been given a chance to re-think it and clarify it.

    At leas they didn’t drop her because of her age or weight…so progress?

    Time123 (ea2b98) — 2/11/2021 @ 8:56 am

    They’ve been going after her for a year because she wouldn’t submit to the radicals in the left. For something as basic as not putting her pronouns in her bio. But I bet you knew that already.

    It’s enlightening to see how many don’t care to stand up for the culture and actually embrace this type of destructive behavior. Then you’ll be shocked as to what’s happened to the culture. Well, maybe just pretend to be shocked.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  51. @35, the Rally was mostly peaceful. The terrorists that attacked the capital weren’t. See how that works?

    Time123 (66d88c) — 2/11/2021 @ 7:56 am

    Great! Now do BLM/Antifa.

    Remember – BLM has killed more innocents that the bloody thirsty Capitol mob…

    Why aren’t we prosecuting BLM/Antifa?

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9) — 2/11/2021 @ 9:09 am

    It’s been done. Google the clips of Biden and other leaders clearing stating that the concerns of BLM were valid, peaceful protest is a right, but violence and riots have no part of peaceful protests. They are prosecuting people who were caught breaking the law.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  52. NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/11/2021 @ 9:37 am;

    They’ve been going after her for a year……

    Link? Or another fact-free post?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  53. First they came for Gina Carano and I didn’t speak up because who cares if an ex-MMA fighter who is now a hammy actor in a supporting role doesn’t get her contract renewed after she compared the modern conservative movement with Jews being killed in the holocaust.

    Sorry, couldn’t resist the snark. I’m not passionate about this, but I think firing her was a mistake. Her comment was stupid but she should have been given a chance to re-think it and clarify it.

    At leas they didn’t drop her because of her age or weight…so progress?

    Time123 (ea2b98) — 2/11/2021 @ 8:56 am

    They’ve been going after her for a year because she wouldn’t submit to the radicals in the left. For something as basic as not putting her pronouns in her bio. But I bet you knew that already.

    It’s enlightening to see how many don’t care to stand up for the culture and actually embrace this type of destructive behavior. Then you’ll be shocked as to what’s happened to the culture. Well, maybe just pretend to be shocked.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/11/2021 @ 9:37 am

    I knew who she was. I like MMA and first saw here there. As I said, I think firing her was a mistake. Her comment was stupid but she should have been given a chance to re-think it and clarify it.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  54. NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/11/2021 @ 9:37 am;

    It’s enlightening to see how many don’t care to stand up for the culture…..

    If a ex-MMA fighter is representative of “the culture” then we are in a lot of trouble.

    I do remember who she is, however. Loved her in Haywire.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  55. Victor @12 @ 11:26 pm

    It would seem pretty significant that while the mob was hunting for Pence, (and presumably the Secret Service with Pence was aware of this) that Trump was tweeting an attack on Pence.

    The House managers tried to make it out that way (albeit carefully choosing their language) but the timeline doesn’t.

    People were hunting for Mike Pence already by the time Trump tweeted about him at 2:24 pm, but Pence wasn’t evacuated until a few minutes later according to the House managers, although an earlier New York Times timeline has that happening at “about 2:12 p.m”

    This may be another place where the House managers are trying to hold onto an earlier version of the story.

    They tried to prove that Trump was unconcerned by saying that he had called Senator Mike Lee’s phone (in order to reach Senator Tommy Tuberville) at 2 pm to ask him to make more objections to more states (which, if true, would actually undermine the notion that Trump wanted violence or had run out of non violent options – look he’s still expecting the Congress to remain in session!) but Senator Mike Lee said that newspaper story wasn’t true and asked that it be stricken from the record.

    Senator Patrick Leahy ruled that under the rules the counsel were not restricted as to what evidence they could cite and Senator Mike Lee appealed it and they started to vote and there was confusion as to exactly what they were voting on.

    Mike Lee apparently didn’t want a restriction on what they could say but merely that what they said he said be stricken from the record because he was the only witness and he said what he was quoted as saying in the newspaper was not true. And Senator Manchin wanted to know what Senator Lee was disputing.

    And it occurred to someone that the situation could be resolved without creating a precedent that they did not want by the managers withdrawing what they said.

    And Senator Schumer arranged with the managers that they would withdraw that bit, which was not crucial to their case, subject to being able to say it again later.

    They were using it to “prove” that Trump never placed a call about the disruption but only concerned himself with his attemot to reverse the election – but again this would go to prove that he and the rioters were not on the same page!

    Only the New York Post mentioned anything aat all bout this denial by Mike Lee of a “fact” cited by the House managers.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  56. It’s clear the Constitution prohibits trying former officers – only current ines can be tried

    That is so wrong, I don’t know where to start. Let’s try this:

    On July 20, 1787 the Constitutional Convention debated the impeachment clause.

    Mr. Pinkney & Mr Govr. Morris moved to strike out this part of the Resolution. Mr P. observd. he 〈ought not to〉 be impeachable whilst in office

    Mr. Davie. If he be not impeachable whilst in office, he will spare no efforts or means whatever to get himself re-elected. He considered this as an essential security for the good behaviour of the Executive.8

    Mr Wilson concurred in the necessity of making the Executive impeachable whilst in office.

    There were some who thought that impeaching the Executive while in office would make him the creature of the Legislature, but were OK with doing it after he left. No one thought such an impeachment would be wrong.

    The Founders themselves participated in an impeachment of a former official. Don’t you think they might have brought that issue up had they thought it was wrong?

    Trump’s “defense” here was hand-waving and a parade of horrors, which is odd because the parade of horrors was clearly evident in the video presented earlier.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  57. 13. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 2/11/2021 @ 12:20 am

    Pierre Delecto literally running away from “danger.”

    Capitol Police Officer Eugene Goodman probably didn’t make it clear to him that they were not all that close, and may have told him to get away from them as fast as he could (you know, just to be on the safe side.)

    The Capitol security video has no sound, unlike the video shot by the marauders. Civilian technology is so much better than police or government technology.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  58. After the ballots are counted: Conspiracies, political violence, and American exceptionalism
    ……
    The January 2021 American Perspectives Survey also revealed that a significant number of Americans appear comfortable with the idea of using violence to address political failures, and across the political aisle, there is widespread agreement that the current democratic system is not working for ordinary people.
    …….
    The belief that the political system works against the interests of conservatives also finds considerable support among the public. Nearly half (48 percent) of Americans believe the political system is stacked against conservatives and people with traditional values. Roughly as many Americans (47 percent) disagree with this statement.

    Americans with more conservative political views strongly endorse this view. Seventy-nine percent of Republicans agree that the political system is stacked against more traditionally minded people. Notably, close to half (46 percent) of independents and more than one in four (27 percent) Democrats also agree.

    More than one in three (36 percent) Americans agree with the statement: “The traditional American way of life is disappearing so fast that we may have to use force to save it.” Six in 10 (60 percent) Americans reject the idea that the use of force is necessary, but there is significant partisan disagreement on this question.

    A majority (55 percent) of Republicans support the use of force as a way to arrest the decline of the traditional American way of life. Forty-three percent of Republicans express opposition to this idea. Significantly fewer independents (35 percent) and Democrats (22 percent) say the use of force is necessary to stop the disappearance of traditional American values and way of life.

    …….Nearly three in 10 (29 percent) Americans completely or somewhat agree with the statement: “If elected leaders will not protect America, the people must do it themselves even if it requires taking violent actions.” More than two-thirds (68 percent) of Americans disagree with this statement.

    The use of violence finds somewhat more support among Republicans than Democrats, although most Republicans oppose it. Roughly four in 10 (39 percent) Republicans support Americans taking violent actions if elected leaders fail to act. Sixty percent of Republicans oppose this idea. Thirty-one percent of independents and 17 percent of Democrats also support taking violent actions if elected leaders do not defend the country.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  59. This video of Trump partying while the Capitol is attacked should tell you all you need to know about what Trump wanted to have happen.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  60. 59. That’s been debunked. The partying was before Trump began to speak at 12:03 pm.

    Another meme probably invented by Democratic political consultants.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  61. NJRob (eb56c3) — 2/11/2021 @ 9:37 am;

    It’s enlightening to see how many don’t care to stand up for the culture…..

    If a ex-MMA fighter is representative of “the culture” then we are in a lot of trouble.

    I do remember who she is, however. Loved her in Haywire.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/11/2021 @ 9:45 am

    I liked her better in Deadpool where she played less angry Rosie O’Donnell.

    Time123 (ea2b98)

  62. I thought I was standing up for the culture when I did not renew my Disney+ subscription in October. I have never watched any women’s boxing or MMA of either sex, either.

    nk (1d9030)

  63. More than one in three (36 percent) Americans agree with the statement: “The traditional American way of life is disappearing so fast that we may have to use force to save it.”

    Mississippi tried in the 60, but the FBI wouldn’t let them get away with killing civil rights activists.

    Time123 (ea2b98)

  64. EXCLUSIVE-Dozens of former Republican officials in talks to form anti-Trump third party

    They can’t even come up with a name. The “Center-Right Party” is lame, and the “Integrity Party” is an oxymoron. Nor, I suspect, have they decided what they want to be, other than the 2015 GOP, which had so many problems that Trump was able to shatter it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  65. This is a farce of a trial. It’s clear the Constitution prohibits trying former officers – only current ines can be tried. It’s removal AND barring. It’s a proper AND – bar but not remove makes no sense.

    It’s crazy how the people who say Trump is bad for the country and the Constitution now want to violate it because they say he’s so bad. It’s clear this is it about the Constitution but about partisanship.

    Bill OReilly (72569b) — 2/10/2021 @ 10:33 pm

    The Constitutional Case for the Impeachability of Former Federal Officials: An Analysis of the Law, History, and Practice of Late Impeachment

    …….[I]f the text is unclear, the history underlying it is not. Late impeachment was practiced in England and, unlike other aspects of English impeachment, was never explicitly ruled out in America, either in pre-1787 constitutions or in the federal one. Indeed. some state constitutions made late impeachability explicit or even required.

    Constitutional structure is also consistent with late impeachability. If the only purpose for impeachment were removal, then there would be no reason to conduct a late impeachment. But removal is not the only purpose of impeachment. Impeachment is designed as a deterrent to prevent offenses from occurring in the first place. and this deterrent effect would be severely undermined if it faded away near the end of a term. Moreover, convicted impeachees can be disqualified from future federal office, an important punishment that the offender himself should not be able to moot. Nor should the ‘President be able to preempt a full investigation or full punishment; the Constitution forbids the President from using his pardon power to achieve these ends, and late impeachment is the only way to prevent an end run around this clear structural imperative. Although some opponents of late impeachment make allowances for these extreme cases by allowing some late impeachments, in reality. no constitutional basis exists for distinguishing between them.

    ……[T]he Senate, which, in the end, is the final arbiter of this question. has approved late impeachment. Senate opponents of late impeachment may have prevented convictions, but they have
    not prevented late trials, and they cannot alter the formal declaration of a majority of the Senate that one can be impeached after they have left office.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  66. 18. noel (9fead1) — 2/11/2021 @ 5:17 am

    Trump tweeted: “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution”

    This communication was AFTER Trump knew the Capitol was being attacked with Pence inside. That’s all anyone should ever need to know about the former President.

    At 2:24 pm and he obviously was writing it for a minute or two.

    It might have been after Trump knew something was going on (because the House had gone into recess – not clear about the Senate)

    But danger wasn’t clear. The House actually went back into session two minutes later, at 2:26 pm. It recessed again at 2:30.

    Trump was probably trying to justify the crowd to his national followers. He wasn’t instigating it to do more.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  67. Before this last century, they were considered little better than prostitutes.

    Before this last century, public morality was so stringent that many women were considered prostitutes long before it became self-fulfilling.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  68. Trump was probably trying to justify the crowd to his national followers. He wasn’t instigating it to do more.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1) — 2/11/2021 @ 10:14 am

    Maybe, How are you so sure of that? What about his history or what evidence makes you think that’s correct?

    Time123 (ea2b98)

  69. He painted a target on Pence’s back when he knew, first hand from Tubby Tomerville, that the mob was inside the Capitol, Sammy.

    nk (1d9030)

  70. Romney getting killed through “heroics” would have accomplished NOTHING.

    I wonder. Would the death or kidnapping of a senator at the hands of Trump’s mob been enough to break the back of the Trump GOP?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  71. When gentlemen still wore spats, what we today call “serious dating” then was called the lady “has claims” on the gentleman.

    nk (1d9030)

  72. Instead of being a terrorist apologist like Roy Blunt, who excused the 1/6 violence by whatabouting the violence at the summer riots, Dan McLaughlin has a better answer.

    I used to be loudly in favor of stern responses to riots. That was my view during the Ferguson riots. It was my view after Charlottesville. It was my view during the BLM & Antifa rioting. Guess what? It’s still my view. Republicans should be the “no excuses for riots” party.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  73. I have watched a goodly deal of this trial, and if Trump were being tried in a court for incitement, I think he’d be convicted. And in this case, inciting a mob to attack Congress IS waging war against the United States. Commander. Army. Attack. If he skates here, his next venue will be different.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  74. Spend 5 minutes looking it up Rip. Give that a try instead of reposting leftist propaganda all day. Maybe you’ll open your eyes slightly.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  75. Dustin (a3d2a0) — 2/11/2021 @ 9:31 am

    when Trump actually promised to be there and also hid

    There;s akey question there:

    When did Trump change his mind about going?

    Hearing the proceedings, the second scheduled rally is still in the memory hole.

    http://web.archive.org/web/20210106005050/https://wildprotest.com

    So are the words (not discovered yet) in which Trump described what he wanted the crowd he was addressing to do:

    https://factba.se/transcript/donald-trump-speech-campaign-rally-the-ellipse-january-6-2021

    …we’re going to cheer on our brave senators, and congressmen and women. We’re probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.

    The people who needed to be strong, by the way, were not the members of his audience listening to him, but Republican members of Congress!

    Whom he hoped their presence would encourage.

    The “You” refers to eople in general, and in this context, Republican Senators and House members.

    Even if all of them voted to reject Electoral votes he’d still lose the vote, but Trump wasn’t thinking.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  76. What the people in caharge of the proceedings in the Capitol were most afraid of was that not hostage taking, which desn;t seem to have occured to anybody and wouldn’t work, but that somebody would seize or destroy the mahogany boxes containing the certifications of the Electoral votes.

    Now this was not the Electoral votes themselves, but reports about them, but if they were lost, stolen or destroyed, it would take several days to replace them, and it would give Governors of states another chance not to send them or to send different ones.

    But this does not seem to have been in Trump’s game plan. We still don’t know what, if anything, it was.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  77. House manager talking about how the far right extremists are talking about doing more. Which doesn’t directly concern Trump.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  78. I had to look her up too. Seriously, going full Godwin and comparing political differences to the systematic murder of 6 million Jews, and then expecting that to have no impact on your career? Virtually any other business would done the same, and especially one as image conscious as Disney. She is stupider than she looks.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/11/2021 @ 9:22 am

    Is she that stupid? Her co-star, Pedro Pascal, made a bad comparison between political differences and the Holocaust, but he didn’t get fired.

    James Gunn, the Disney director for the Guardians of the Galaxy movies, was fired for pro-pedophilia tweets. But he was popular so they brought him back.

    I guess conservative women have to play by different rules, right?

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  79. Spend 5 minutes looking it up Rip. Give that a try instead of reposting leftist propaganda all day. Maybe you’ll open your eyes slightly.

    There is NO CASE for the argument that Late Impeachment is unconstitutional. Every, and I mean every piece of evidence says otherwise. Only bullsh1tters say it’s not.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  80. I had to look her up too. Seriously, going full Godwin and comparing political differences to the systematic murder of 6 million Jews, and then expecting that to have no impact on your career? Virtually any other business would done the same, and especially one as image conscious as Disney. She is stupider than she looks.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 2/11/2021 @ 9:22 am

    Is she that stupid? Her co-star, Pedro Pascal, made a bad comparison between political differences and the Holocaust, but he didn’t get fired.

    James Gunn, the Disney director for the Guardians of the Galaxy movies, was fired for pro-pedophilia tweets. But he was popular so they brought him back.

    I guess conservative women have to play by different rules, right?

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9) — 2/11/2021 @ 10:38 am

    Gina’s comment was stupid and offensive. Being a conservative in 2020 USA isn’t at all similar to being a Jew in Nazi Germany. Pedro and Gun’s tweets were also stupid and offensive. Pedro’s because it was inaccurate, Gun’s on purpose because he was trying to do shock humor.

    They’re both more talented then Gina so they get away with more.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  81. Virtually any other business would done the same, and especially one as image conscious as Disney. She is stupider than she looks.

    In the 50’s we called these “blacklists” and they were worse than Hitler.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  82. Yesteray I heard somet tape of Donald Trump that reminded me that Trump was not only claiming that he won the election, but that everybody = Democrats also, knew it

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-speech-save-america-rally-transcript-january-6

    …But this year using the pretext of the China virus and the scam of mail-in ballots, Democrats attempted the most brazen and outrageous election theft. There’s never been anything like this. It’s a pure theft in American history, everybody knows it…

    Now that proves that Trump was lying and knew he was wrong about his basic claim because even Republican election officials and state legislators were telling him he was wrong.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/03/us/politics/trump-raffensperger-georgia-call-transcript.html

    …RAFFENSPERGER: Well, I’ve listened to what the president has just said. President Trump, we’ve had several lawsuits, and we’ve had to respond in court to the lawsuits and the contentions of — we don’t agree that you have won. We don’t, I didn’t agree about the 200,000 number that you mentioned. And I go through that point by point. What we had done is we gave our State Senate about one and a half hours of, of our time going through the election issue by issue. And then on the State House, the Government Affairs Committee, we gave them about two and a half hours of our time, going back point by point on all the issues of contention. And then just a few days ago, we met with our U.S. congressmen, Republican congressmen, and we gave them about two hours of our time talking about this past election….

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  83. But this does not seem to have been in Trump’s game plan. We still don’t know what, if anything, it was.

    To continue to ruin America for fun and profit.

    nk (1d9030)

  84. Gina Carano was fired for being an outspoken conservative. Period. They started going after her when she posted a picture of the 1 person refusing to do a Nazi salute when the leftists on twitter demanded she support ACAB. Now they got their scalp.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  85. Nothing to see here. Move along.

    Sure there is. From the same link:

    Election officials in Georgia have become well-known for their dismissal of former President Donald Trump’s baseless claims of widespread voter fraud in the state. On Wednesday, prosecutors in Fulton County announced a criminal probe related to a phone call Trump made to Raffensperger where Trump said he needed Raffensperger to “find” votes.

    nk (1d9030)

  86. What do you suppose a federal grand jury would decide if this evidence was presented to them for indictment?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  87. Should Hawley be permitted to vote, having not been present for the entire trial?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  88. 69. nk (1d9030) — 2/11/2021 @ 10:20 am

    He painted a target on Pence’s back when he knew, first hand from Tubby Tomerville, that the mob was inside the Capitol, Sammy.

    That’s I think the very claim that Senator Mike Lee took issue with and wanted stricken from the record.

    But anyway rump knew they were inside the Capitol.

    https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/2/10/22277456/mike-lee-objects-house-impeachment-managers-donald-trump-tommy-tuberville-capitol-riot

    Lee demanded.

    Lee was referring to the content of a phone conversation between Trump and Sen. Tommy Tuberville, R-Ala., on Lee’s cellphone during the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6. Trump misdialed Tuberville and got Lee, who gave his phone to Tuberville just before the Senate chamber was evacuated.

    House manager Rep. David Cicilline, D-R.I., cited Trump’s call to Tuberville, saying Trump “reportedly” asked Tuberville to make additional objections to the Electoral College certification process.

    https://www.sltrib.com/news/politics/2021/02/11/what-sen-mike-lee-told-me

    The Salt Lake Tribune

    ….By Bryan Schott | Feb. 10, 2021, 8:09 p.m.
    | Updated: Feb. 11, 2021, 9:53 a.m.

    On the evening of Jan. 6, after the rioters were cleared out of the U.S. Capitol and Congress got back to the work of counting the Electoral College votes, Sen. Mike Lee exchanging some text messages with me, a journalist with The Salt Lake Tribune.

    After conversing about the day’s events, which I won’t detail here as I agreed to keep them off the record, Lee related the story of how then-President Donald Trump mistakenly called his phone thinking it belonged to Tommy Tuberville, the newly-elected senator from Alabama .

    Lee agreed to let me publish the story, which I initially broke in my newsletter “The Rundown” the following morning. After my reporting, the story was picked up by several other news outlets.

    On Wednesday night during the second impeachment trial of Trump, Lee strenuously objected to House impeachment managers referring to other reporting that said Lee overheard Trump telling Tuberville to delay the certification of the Electoral College votes by objecting.

    In my reporting, Lee did not say he overheard the former president’s conversation with Sen. Tuberville, although he did tell me the call lasted for several minutes.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  89. The locus classicus:

    https://mailchi.mp/sltrib/the-rundown-an-upsetting-day-in-america

    Really wrong number. Sen. Mike Lee sends The Rundown this story from the middle of the chaos during yesterday’s storming of the Capitol building:

    Moments after the proceedings in the Senate were halted by the Capitol Police, my phone rang. The caller ID indicated that the call was coming from the White House. I thought it was Robert O’Brien, the president’s national security advisor, calling to update me on a question I had asked him about a security threat from Iran.

    To my great surprise, it was not Robert O’Brien, but President Trump on the other end of the line. My heart started to beat a little faster, as I was convinced he could only be calling to argue with me about my reading of the Twelfth Amendment and Article II, Section 1.

    There was a lot of noise and commotion in the room, but I thought I heard him say “How’s it going, Tommy?”

    I said, “Mr. President, this is Mike Lee.”

    “No,” he insisted, “I dialed Tommy’s number.”

    “Mr. President, are you calling for Tommy Tuberville (my new colleague from Alabama)?”

    “Yes.”

    Anxious to hand the phone to someone else (and not have to argue with the president about matters at hand), I asked if he’d like me to find Senator Tuberville.

    He said, “Yeah sure, that’d be great.”

    I went and found Senator Tuberville, handed him my phone, and explained that the president would like to speak to him. I stood nearby for the next five or ten minutes as they spoke, not wanting to lose my phone in the middle of a crisis.

    Then the Capitol Police became very nervous and ordered us to evacuate the chamber immediately. As they were forcing everyone out of the chamber, I awkwardly found myself interrupting the same telephone conversation I had just facilitated.

    “Excuse me, Tommy, we have to evacuate. Can I have my phone?”

    Senator Tuberville promptly ended the call and returned my phone to its rightful owner.

    Seems it wasn’t just President Trump who dialed the wrong number when trying to reach Sen. Tuberville. The Dispatch reports Trump’s lawyer Rudy Giuliani left a long voicemail pleading with Tuberville to delay the vote on the Electoral College on the phone of another unidentified GOP Senator who was most definitely NOT the Senator from Alabama.

    The House managers said the second call was also to Mike Lee, which Mike Lee doesn’t say, and that it took place at about 2 pm.

    he Senators were evacuated at about 2:30 pm, and the Mike Pence tweet was sent at about 2:24 pm, so it would seem to have been composed during that phone call.

    I think Trump used a separate phone for tweets. But he could have written that some time before and only sent it later.

    Nothing here in any case about what he was told by Tommy Tuberville.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  90. “Nothing to see here. Move along.”

    From the article:

    Warnock resigned his position with the New Georgia Project on January 28, 2020.

    He’s a private citizen now, surely they have no authority to investigate?

    Davethulhu (6ba00b)

  91. @7. Yeltsin had balls, standing on a tank as a target showed the world the courage of his convitions and didn’t try to lead from behind. That’s how you get elected a ‘president.’

    Idiot.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  92. 88.Should Hawley be permitted to vote, having not been present for the entire trial

    Gee, ‘Senator’ Jake Tapper,(AH) CNN, just declared Hawley and Cruz “co-conspirators” too. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  93. @57. Images rule, Sammy. Recall that pix of HRC w/her hand to her mouth in the SitRoom during the Bin Laden raid- and what it projected, rightly or wrongly, and how it was used against her.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  94. The intellectual rigor of the Senate GOP is demonstrated here by DCSCA. Bravo!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  95. @95. Populism 101: Impeachment Theatre vs., another wasted day w/no vaccine and emergency Covid aid just waters and roots it deeper.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  96. #81-Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/11/2021 @ 10:48 am

    In the 50’s we called these “blacklists” and they were worse than Hitler.

    Hardly. Blacklisting in the ’50s only deprived persons of their livelihoods, not their lives. Hitler was really out to destroy centuries of European culture by the destruction of entire populations and their writers, actors, artists and artwork. That is a pretty outrageous statement.

    And Gina Carano won’t be blacklisted. She will find work somewhere else. She can’t be very good, nearly half of her film credits went directly to video.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  97. The worst thing America can do to Trump is not to impeach him, not to censure him nor bar him from office… but simply stop paying any attention to him. It’s water to a thirsty man. Without attention, or ratings, he withers, shrivels and shrinks into irrelevancy– and dies away.

    But then, what would ‘Senator” Jake Tapper talk about? 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  98. One good point: hat the dispute is about the facts. If Trump did what they say he did, his defense counsel would not challenge that he should be convicted.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  99. @32. Wrong. No balls. No guts. No future. No leadership. No Boris Yeltsin– or Davy Crockett in Pierre Delecto.

    Thank God he’s not now nor never will be CiC.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  100. @27. Again, even Dubya faced down a shoe.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  101. This doesn’t make them cowards.

    Yes.

    It does.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  102. There’s a lot of the Frog in Pierre Delecto; he’ll ‘fight’ to the last American.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  103. Hardly. Blacklisting in the ’50s only deprived persons of their livelihoods, not their lives.

    Wrong. It destroyed reputations and, yes– did drive many to lose their lives via suicide.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  104. DCSCA is both upset that Romney didn’t let himself be taken hostage, because this makes him a coward, and crying about some stupid actor who didn’t get a movie they wanted.

    LOL

    Dustin (4237e0)

  105. Yeltsinoptics, Dustin?

    nk (1d9030)

  106. @105. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVJgmp2Tc2s

    =mike-drop=

    “Chicken Little.” – ‘Mr.D’ [Bruce Gordon] ‘Run, Buddy, Run’ 1966-67, CBS TV

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  107. Trump was probably trying to justify the crowd to his national followers. He wasn’t instigating it to do more.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1) — 2/11/2021 @ 10:14 am

    68. Time123 (ea2b98) — 2/11/2021 @ 10:18 am

    Maybe, How are you so sure of that? What about his history or what evidence makes you think that’s correct?

    Because I don;t think Trump has reached that level of evil – if he had, it would have shown up in other places – and this is simplest explanation possible. It’s more is not wanting to throw away any chances than trying to egg them o. We don;t know his state of knowledge about what was going on, but whatever it was it seems to me that probably what Trump was trying to do was trying to avoid having the pursuit of Mike Pence hurt him.

    That crowd was not going to certify him elected president.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  108. Hardly. Blacklisting in the ’50s only deprived persons of their livelihoods, not their lives.

    Obviously. I am paraphrasing the pearl-clutching we hear every time Trumbo or the others are mentioned. FWIW, Trumbo was a paid mouthpiece of Josef Stalin, arguing whatever line was desired at the moment.

    1933-1939: Hitler bad, get ready to fight.
    August 1939: War is bad,kills children, we should stay neutral
    June 1941: Hitler bad, get ready to fight.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  109. And Gina Carano won’t be blacklisted. She will find work somewhere else.

    Maybe she can voice-act under an assumed name. That’s not hurting her any!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  110. Wrong. It destroyed reputations and, yes– did drive many to lose their lives via suicide.

    Rip doesn’t mind it if only bad people are blacklisted.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  111. @90:

    Mike Lee called that anecdote a lie on the floor of the Senate last night.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  112. 113. It wasn’t clear what part of it was a lie, but I tracked down the original version, (quoted in full @90) which he apparently does not dispute.

    It was withdrawn by the House managers, but they seem to have repeated something like that today. It actually could hurt their case!

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  113. For anyone interested New York Times ad offering digital access at $1 a week, charged at the rate of $4 every four weeks)

    https://www.nytimes.com/subscription?campaignId=9JJ7R

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  114. Trump’s lawyers may only use Friday.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  115. The Bret Stephens piece that his employer shot down. Good stuff.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)


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