Republican Group Works To Hold Accountable Party Members Who Bought (And Sold) The Big Lie
[guest post by Dana]
In a topper to this week’s posts looking at the dismal status of today’s Republican party, the Republican Accountability Project remains committed to the GOP. Members are working to restore the party’s reputation and credibility by lending support to Republicans who voted to impeach Trump and to hold accountable elected officials who bought (and sold) the Big Lie:
It is because of this lie—the lie that the election was stolen and fraudulent—that a pro-Trump mob sacked the Capitol and beat police officers attempting to protect the elected officials inside, leaving five people dead and many more injured. Even after the attack, 147 Republicans still voted against certifying the election results. Even today, GOP Senators like Rand Paul will not say that the election was fair and that President Joe Biden was the clear winner.
We cannot allow this lie to persist. It erodes Americans’ faith in the integrity of our electoral system. It creates more opportunity for violence from radical actors who have been told by elected officials that the election was stolen from them. And it threatens the very democracy we all cherish.
We will also defend those who are willing to defend our democracy. When President Trump was impeached by the House, 10 Republicans joined their Democratic colleagues and voted in favor, and five Republican Senators voted to proceed with Trump’s trial in the Senate. We believe that these Senators will do the right thing and vote to convict and disqualify Trump. Many of these principled, courageous Republicans are already facing primary challenges from the Trump wing of the party. We have their backs.
Republicans would like to simply move on. But without accountability there is no clear path forward. That is why we’ve launched the Republican Accountability Project.
With that goal in mind, here is the group’s just-released ad:
Trump wasn’t the only one who incited the attack on the U.S. Capitol. pic.twitter.com/BbPbKBpNVg
— The Republican Accountability Project (@AccountableGOP) January 29, 2021
And while Rep. Matt Gaetz was in Wyoming trolling Rep. Elizabeth Cheney, fellow Trump-cronies who also pushed the Big Lie were targeted by the the group with billboards demanding their resignations:
Other lawmakers targeted by the campaign include House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.), Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.), Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) and Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.), who this week has been criticized by Republicans and Democrats alike for a series of controversies, including past comments calling for violence against Democratic politicians.
The Republican Accountability Project is also going up on the air in each of their targets’ congressional districts and states with television ads tying the lawmakers’ rhetoric with the actions of the pro-Trump rioters behind the breach at the Capitol.
Those ads will air during Fox News’s “Fox & Friends” and “Hannity,” two favorite news programs of conservatives, the group said.
“These representatives and senators helped incite the attack on the Capitol by spreading lies about the election,” said Sarah Longwell, the executive director of the Republican Accountability Project. “They have proved that they are unfit to hold office. They should be nowhere near power.”
If the combined efforts of the Republican Accountability Project and newly-elected members, who stood by their convictions and voted their conscience despite the political risk, can make inroads into a now Trump-dominated GOP, the Republican party may actually locate its missing soul*. Thus, sane members of the party who refuse to be bound to Trump and readily acknowledged the legitimate win of Joe Biden, need not be compelled to form a new political party of their own.
"It's just staggering how many folks continue to either try to paper over what happened, try to move on, just say… 'It's been a couple of weeks, let's forget about it.' I'm just at a loss for words," GOP Rep. Peter Meijer says on the fallout following the US Capitol attack. pic.twitter.com/iYVjPvXH5D
— The Lead CNN (@TheLeadCNN) January 28, 2021
Hello. I hope to see more committed Republicans work toward wresting the party away from Trump loyalists and restore it to its former solid footing.Dana (fd537d) — 1/29/2021 @ 10:15 am
The RAP has my full support.Paul Montagu (197cca) — 1/29/2021 @ 10:27 am
…hold accountable elected officials who bought (and sold) the Big Lie…
‘Populism’ is doing just that; the ‘Big Lie’ of the past 40 years:
Hosea 8:7 – “For they sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind.”DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/29/2021 @ 10:37 am
Leftist organization lies and attacks Republicans film at 11. In the meantime, insider and crook who altered documents to illegally investigate and try and criminalize associates of Trump gets off with a slap on the wrist.NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/29/2021 @ 10:43 am
I don’t think that RAP ad sends the signal you think it does.
I’d like to see more of it though and I think NeverTrump should send fat checks to RAP for more.frosty (f27e97) — 1/29/2021 @ 10:45 am
Ironic, that a group calling out Trump and his enablers Big Lie is “leftist organization lies”.Paul Montagu (197cca) — 1/29/2021 @ 10:50 am
Question, Rob. Do you believe the election was “stolen” and, if so, where’s your legitimate evidence of serious fraud?
@5. Are the letters in that anti-Cruz billboard bigger than one for Trump?
There’s a lot of The Donald in Tedtoo. 😉DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/29/2021 @ 10:53 am
Leftist organization run by Lincoln Project leftists who said their goal last November was to defeat every Republican. They want to burn it down just like AOC and Omar desire.NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/29/2021 @ 10:55 am
President Plagiarist helicoptering to Walter Reed.
Who had 9 days in the office pool? 😉DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/29/2021 @ 10:57 am
I’m also curious to know your answer.Dana (fd537d) — 1/29/2021 @ 10:58 am
If we burn down the republican party who will prevent the space lasers from burning down our forests or keep the Rothchilds from their canable/pedo/statanic rituals. Oh no. Think of the children.Time123 (653992) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:00 am
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/29/2021 @ 10:57 am
Is it going to be a weekend at Joe’s?frosty (f27e97) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:00 am
I’m open to evidence. I’ve seen plenty of fraud, not enough to change the election. I also know if Trump won in the way Biden did, we’d be seeing plenty of media investigations. Bellwether districts suddenly didn’t matter. The level of ballots that are rejected due to incomplete or incorrect information dropped to near zero.
Still waiting for NeverTrump and their leftist compadres to apologize for their 4 year witch hunt screaming that Russia stole the election when it was cooked up by Hillary and her team to distract from her own criminal behavior.
That’s for you Dana. I don’t give a darn what Paul wants. I ignore him by choice.NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:02 am
still waiting for Omar to face the penalty for her crimes and be removed from office. I’ll be waiting forever just like I will for Clinesmith and his team to face jail time for their corrupt actions.NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:03 am
The same media that went digging through Governor Palin’s trash will ignore the mountains of corruption on the side of the left. Look at how they cover for Andrew Cuomo and his deliberate murder of those living in nursing homes.NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:04 am
Time123 (653992) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:00 am
It’s important to keep these stories straight. The people who believe the space laser/rothchild story don’t believe the R’s are doing much to prevent that so burning it down won’t matter.frosty (f27e97) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:05 am
Republicans getting mowed down on a softball field seems so long ago. Almost quaint, even.Hoi Polloi (139bf6) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:06 am
They don’t just cover for him – they bestow him with an Emmy.Hoi Polloi (139bf6) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:07 am
@12. Given hs plethora of EOs this week, he could have at least driven over in an electric car. Those whirlybirds… so much pollution! 😉DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:08 am
“I’ve been to Walter Reed a lot. I spent almost six months there as a patient.” – President Plagiarist, 1/29/21.
Swell.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:12 am
Can i ask what plenty means? I know of enough fraud to account for a few votes, but that’s it. I can’t tell if you’re saying it was almost decided by fraud or if your saying it was imperfect to the level they usually are.
Also, since you say you’re open to evidence; GA did a check off absentee ballots in Cobb county and found 10 that were questionable. Most were sloppy handwriting. One was an honest mistake, and I think one couple signed each other’s ballot. the other 15K were fine. That’s pretty strong evidence that we didn’t have a large number of fraudulent absentee ballots and that your concern has an answer.Time123 (f5cf77) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:16 am
AFAIK Clinesmith didn’t have a team, he wasn’t leader he was an individual contributor. Durham, picked by Trump and Barr and appointed as Special Council lead the prosecution. They let him plead to charges where probation was an real possibility. I assume they don’t share your opinion of the seriousness of his punishment. I wish they did. I’d like to see precedent that when prosecutors (or police) falsify evidence they serve time.Time123 (f5cf77) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:20 am
The crazy conspiracy theories are so thick it’s hard to keep track of what moonbat Qanon idea is mainstream and which one’s are restricted to fringe characters like General Flynn.Time123 (f5cf77) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:22 am
The Lincoln Project has nothing to do with the Republican Accountability Project, Rob. The latter group are not Democrats.Paul Montagu (197cca) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:32 am
How about answering my question?
Oh, nevermind. The guy who accuses others of bad faith doesn’t have the good faith to answer me.Paul Montagu (197cca) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:34 am
OK, doesn’t the fact that, when talking about space lasers and pedo/satanic ritual conspiracy theories we all immediately know that it’s the Republican party we’re talking about, beautifully illustrate just how unhinged the party has become – save for a minority of remaining not-loyal-to-Trump members?Dana (fd537d) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:35 am
just how unhinged the party has become
Echoes of 1964; ‘Rockfeller Republicans’ said virtually the same thing back in Goldwater days.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:43 am
4. NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/29/2021 @ 10:43 am
That wasn’t a serious investigation. The FBI was playing games. The purpose of the FISA warrant on Carter Page was to fend off Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid while avoiding spying on Trump or anybody associated with the Trump campaign. (Page was no longer associated with the campaign at that point.)
Clinesmith altered an email the next year to protect the bureau, so that questions shouldn’t be asked about why the warrant was applied for in the first place.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:48 am
‘Rockfeller Republicans’ said virtually the same thing back in Goldwater days.
Then 4 years later they got their man, Richard Nixon, and a return to normalcy.Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:50 am
None of it would have happened if there was no Electoral College and the President was elected by popular vote. Thanks, Ted! Thanks, Josh!nk (1d9030) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:51 am
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/27/us/politics/mcconnell-trump-impeachment.htmlSammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:01 pm
In other words, Rob will say that there’s insufficient evidence of large-scale fraud, but won’t take the next logical step and acknowledge that Trump has been lying to the American people for months. If you make sh-t up without regard to any underlying facts, you’re lying. If people go along with your lies, then they’re enablers.Paul Montagu (197cca) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:02 pm
And to take it the next logical step, if you’re not only lying for months but inviting your adoring followers to show up during an important Constitutional proceeding with the tease that it would be “wild”, and then say things on that day such as…
“fight much harder” and
“you have to show strength” and
“when you catch somebody in a fraud, you are allowed to go by very different rules” and
“we will not take it anymore, and that is what this is all about” and
“if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore” and
“try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country”
…then you, too, are guilty of fomenting an insurrection, no? Complicit all who were engaged in this and defending this.
The Democrats had to treat impeachment like a piece of legislation that would be difficult to get a 2/3 majority for, but that would be possible.
They used to be able to do things like that. LBJ was famous for that. That’s how he got the 1964 Civil Rights bill and some other thins like Medicare through Congress.
That means working carefully and consulting members of the other party to see what language they would accept, etc.
And Joe Biden has some Congressional skills.
McConnell was, and maybe still is, gettable, and he’d take others with him, but they didn’t try.
Conviction in an impeachment is possible.
Maybe a third (and more accurate) impeachment resolution, combined with preparing the public a little for it, would work.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:03 pm
Everything there is roped out of context. Nobody would have interpreted that to be license for an mob attack and nobody did. It was not a “dog whistle.”
And I don’t care what the QShaman (the man in the Viking costume) may now try to claim.
Did Trump tell him to come with a U.S. flag attached to a wooden pole topped with a spear, barge into the Senate chamber and write a threatening note to Vice President Mike Pence??Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:16 pm
Paul Montagu (197cca) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:02 pm
This is a careful line to walk, hoping people don’t draw too many parallels to 2016, Russiagate, Impeachment I, and the non-stop walls closing in. Good job! You deserve a golf clap, let me see if I can find one in my desk somewhere.frosty (f27e97) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:20 pm
Paul Krugman writes that the Republican Party is in a doom loop. (he just wonders if the country is too)
Now some of what Paul Krugman writes is just wrong.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:26 pm
@29. Yes, comparing The Big Dick to President Plagiarist is apt. 😉
Still, Reagan picked up the AuH20 banner and ran to defeat in ’68; Gipper kissed a lot of Big Dick butt after that, too; Reagan hugged that golden flag like Trump hugged one; ran as an insurgent a l Trump against The Big Dick’s hand-picked successor; both lost again. Then the born-again Christian was held hostage to a duststorm, lost- and the hell of false prosperity was unleashed by Credit Card Ronnie and Trump was spawned.
“Impooch With Honor.” – pet food bowl; Nixon political kitch, 1974DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:31 pm
Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:26 pm
This was the guy who dropped the great wisdom on us that countries with McDonald’s don’t go to war with each other?
Just one? Yea, Krugman doesn’t have an agenda.
Well, no. We’ve years of evidence that a party can roll on after going off the deep end morally and intellectually.frosty (f27e97) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:33 pm
The fact that it would be the third, combined with the fact that the whole procedure would have started after Trump left office, would make it fail. Many people who support the current impeachment, or at least are not opposed to it, would oppose another one on the grounds that it wouldn’t feel right. “You’re doing this again? You’ve already had two bites at the apple. How much longer are we going to keep reliving this? C’mon now, give the man a break!” (To coin a phrase.)
Plus, if the third proceeding would be meant to substitute for and improve on the second, we would have commentators coming out of the woodwork bringing up the concept of “double jeopardy” — irrelevant, since impeachment is a political and not a juridical proceeding, but facially appealing from a moral standpoint. (One of the cornerstones of American jurisprudence, after all, is that it would be fundamentally unfair for the system to be allowed to keep trying you until either they lose interest or one of their efforts finally succeeds. Whether impeachment works that way or not, any efforts to withdraw and redraft the charges would now run squarely into the moral intuition of most that it ought to.)Demosthenes (1e7dbc) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:39 pm
Nope. I don’t accept your tortured refusal to connect the dots, Sammy.Paul Montagu (197cca) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:40 pm
Clinesmith knowingly and willingly lied to the court (ie, perjury) and came away with…a $100 fine.
Perjury is only a crime if you don’t know the right people.Hoi Polloi (139bf6) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:41 pm
Shouldn’t the voters in the republican party decide what happens to the “leaders” of the republican party?J. W. Morris (ae9309) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:42 pm
J. W. Morris (ae9309) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:42 pm
Yes, absolutely. So long as they are the right voters who vote for the right things because it’s right. Go America! Democracy!. Otherwise, no and other members of congress should expel anyone voted in by the wrong voters.frosty (f27e97) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:49 pm
1 year probation and 400 our community service and I think the punishment should have been much more severe.Time123 (f5cf77) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:57 pm
Why would it be a “careline line to walk”, frosty? Why whatabout with so-called “parallels”?Paul Montagu (77c694) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:57 pm
It’s a fact that Putin mounted a “sweeping and systematic” effort to undermine our 2016 election.
It’s a fact that Trump tried to enlist the help of a foreign power to take down his chief political rival, which is illegal.
It’s a fact that Trump and all his defenders have no legitimate evidence of serious fraud.
One standard, no?
MTG shouldn’t be expelled because she’s a trash bag full of lies. The voters knew that when they picked her. We are however free to mock those amoral fools for doing so. GOP leadership is also free to say ‘She’s too crazed to sit on committee.Time123 (f5cf77) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:59 pm
“Yes, absolutely. So long as they are the right voters who vote for the right things because it’s right. Go America! Democracy!. Otherwise, no and other members of congress should expel anyone voted in by the wrong voters.”
How do you work with these people?Davethulhu (6ba00b) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:04 pm
“GOP leadership is also free to say ‘She’s too crazed to sit on committee.”
Good luck with that.Davethulhu (6ba00b) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:04 pm
Time123 (f5cf77) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:59 pm
Yes we arefrosty (f27e97) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:11 pm
In 2016 Russia committed crimes to interfere in our election. There was reasonable suspicion that members of the Trump campaign were aware of this and involved and a properly predicated investigation was begun and carried out by a life long republican. Hillary Clinton conceded that trump won the day after the election and Obama welcomed Trump to the white house.
In 2020 Trump lost an election and made numerous allegations of fraud and improper process, none backed by any compelling evidence and lost 60 lawsuits. After that he continued to make the claim and add his voice to theories so farfetched i won’t even bother to summarize. Trump supporters attacked the capital, erected a gallows outside of the capital building and called for the death of VP Pence. Trump never conceded fled the white house before the inauguration and has reportedly refused to speak to Biden. His supporters continue to follow his lead.
I see no honest parallel between the 2.Time123 (f5cf77) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:12 pm
Davethulhu (6ba00b) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:04 pm
In that particular case, it’s easy. Stop advocating for gun bans, stop plans to regulate firearms possession, stop plans for mandatory buybacks, stop plans for restrictions on firearms and ammo sales, etc. In fact, you don’t even need to work with “these people” at all if you’d stop all of the federal 2a nonsense.frosty (f27e97) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:19 pm
To be fair.
He’s lost his government job.
He’s in danger (but not likely) of losing his pension.
He’s definitely may have his law license suspended for a time.
Those things are not “nothing”.whembly (fcc090) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:21 pm
“In that particular case, it’s easy. Stop advocating for gun bans, stop plans to regulate firearms possession, stop plans for mandatory buybacks, stop plans for restrictions on firearms and ammo sales, etc. In fact, you don’t even need to work with “these people” at all if you’d stop all of the federal 2a nonsense.”
Ah, yes, the “price of blood” people are the reasonable ones.Davethulhu (6ba00b) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:22 pm
39. Demosthenes (1e7dbc) — 1/29/2021 @ 12:39 pm
I know, I know tere’s a problem with that. Best would be for the House to add an additional (more honest and moderate) charge now, after holding a day or two of hearings, and have it tried together at the same time as the current impeachment trial. It should accuse him pfpushin claims he knew were wrong and using his position and prominence to repeatedly urge that people in official positions do things that had no right to do. If there is evidence he could also be accused of dereliction of duty during the attack on the Capitol. Bu Democrats are highly unlikely to bring a “superceding indictment.”
It would have to be provoked by something Donald Trump did, like reiterating his claims that he won the election by a landslide.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:23 pm
A point of clarification, Dana, for those who are conflating RAP with the Lincoln Project.Paul Montagu (77c694) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:25 pm
Bill Kristol is a Republican and principal of RAP, and he had no relationship with the Lincoln Project, which is rightfully considered a Democrat fundraising operation. They might make entertaining commercials, but I can’t and won’t support. Kristol was affiliated with Republican Voters Against Trump, which also made good commercials but were not as prolific as the other guys.
Time123 (f5cf77) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:12 pm
Really?, oh you said the day after?
It’s fine to think they aren’t comparable but don’t say
wasn’t a thing.frosty (f27e97) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:27 pm
” the Lincoln Project, which is rightfully considered a Democrat fundraising operation.
Founded by noted Democrats George Conway and Steve Schmidt.Davethulhu (6ba00b) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:30 pm
It also is not double jeopardy because it would not be for the “same offense”
The whole problem is, that what Trump did do, he’s mot accused of – he’s accused of doing something he didn’t do, and most of it would be impossible to do. (let someone try to successfully incite a crowd to assault a building.)
This assault began being planned in November, well before Trump could conceivably have wanted this to happen
The impeachment claim, that Trump incited the assault by what he said that day s falling apart in front of our eyes.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:31 pm
Davethulhu (6ba00b) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:22 pm
There are reasonable 2a options on the table but if you want to wear down the 2a don’t whine when you can’t do it for free.frosty (f27e97) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:31 pm
Entitled establishment republicans and their running dogs in the media, think their views are more important then the 74 million ignorant white trash republicans that they loathe! Now you think your ENTITLED to retake the republican party for the wealthy donor class and their lackeys. Your money can no longer buy power in the republican party. 10% will no longer control the other 90% by buying candidates to compete with trump candidates. Populists are not leaving the republican party to you.asset (153435) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:33 pm
“There are reasonable 2a options on the table but if you want to wear down the 2a don’t whine when you can’t do it for free.”
The Jewish space lasers will keep us safe.Davethulhu (6ba00b) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:35 pm
I don’t know how long people will be able to maintain this double think:
1) That Donald Trump incited it by his speech on the Ellipse, and
2) That it was being planned for almost two months, and that the Capitol Police should have been better prepared.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:36 pm
Combine what Davethulhu quoted with your rant here, and what we get is: “Give us everything we want, or we’ll destroy you.” Which is certainly an interesting negotiating tactic, but perhaps not the best PR message coming from supposedly responsible gun owners.
However, given what the friends of Marjorie were willing to do at the Capitol three weeks ago, it’s actually pretty apt.Demosthenes (d7fc81) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:42 pm
i’m not saying he got a slap on the wrist. i’m saying his punishment should have been more severe.Time123 (653992) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:43 pm
At this point, you seem like more of a liability to me…Demosthenes (d7fc81) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:45 pm
Assaults like the one on the Capitol take at least six weeks of planning. (that’s why the next date for the insurrectionists os March 4)
These attacks can be a surprise to the people attacked but they are never a surprise to the attackers.
There never was a surprise military attack (that was co-ordinated in any way) that a surprise to the aggressor.
Japan did not decide on the spur of the moment to attack Pearl Harbor.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:51 pm
Which do you think is the bigger priority;hanging Mike Pence, the Jewish Space Lasers, or the satanic sex dungeons in the pizzeria basement?Time123 (f5cf77) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:53 pm
Don’t worry – Democrats will figure out how to square that circle.Hoi Polloi (139bf6) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:53 pm
“Look, either you can blame me for burning down Grandpa’s shed because I threw a lit match on it, or you can blame my brothers because they were pouring gasoline on it for twenty minutes beforehand. But you can’t blame me AND them!”Demosthenes (d7fc81) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:56 pm
What if we find out that some people went planning violence and other did it because Trump encouraged them?
Or that people planned violence but refrained until they heard what they thought was direction from Trump?Time123 (653992) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:58 pm
Demosthenes (d7fc81) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:42 pm
Who is “us” in this sentence? The 2a people don’t “want” anything new. At best they “want” to leave things to the local states. The better formulation is “Leave things alone, or we’ll destroy you.” It’s the anti-2a crowd that has shown up and decided that something must be done or else.
If Greene wants to use hyperbolic language to get across the point that people are serious about the 2a, good. If that triggers you I’m sorry.frosty (f27e97) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:59 pm
Independents, actually. Schmidt took it a step further last month when he registered as a Democrat.Paul Montagu (77c694) — 1/29/2021 @ 2:00 pm
Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:36 pm
witness the power of the internet. you got an answer almost right away.frosty (f27e97) — 1/29/2021 @ 2:02 pm
@73, My suggestions addressed the contradiction in a simple and straight forward way.Time123 (653992) — 1/29/2021 @ 2:04 pm
Thanks for agreeing to the second part. That’s all I was trying to get across.
Nope. Uh-uh. People who approve of social media posts about killing members of Congress, and whose fellow travelers recently breached the center of American government (some of whom were looking to ACTUALLY DO THAT), are not allowed to play the “hyperbole” card. It has been permanently removed from their deck.Demosthenes (d7fc81) — 1/29/2021 @ 2:07 pm
You know Hillary conceded because she literally gave a concession speech on Wednesday 11/9/2016, and Obama started the transition process shortly thereafter. Let’s not confuse that with her after-the-fact sour grapes whining.Paul Montagu (77c694) — 1/29/2021 @ 2:08 pm
Time123 (653992) — 1/29/2021 @ 2:04 pm
It was a fair answer. Not challenging it.
I think it’s a waste of time to get into the “incitement” arguement. It just seems like a “yes, it is, no, it isn’t” back and forth.
But Sammy asked a question and he got an almost immediate response. Both are already accepted as true.frosty (f27e97) — 1/29/2021 @ 2:13 pm
Frosty, Fair enough. I hope the senate Trial is detailed and thorough.
1. I want to know what really happened and not what i think happened.Time123 (f5cf77) — 1/29/2021 @ 2:18 pm
2. It will diminish what Biden can try to do.
https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2021/01/never-trump-dark-money-group-to-spend-millions-backing-pro-impeachment-republicans/NJRob (1fab4f) — 1/29/2021 @ 2:22 pm
Demosthenes (d7fc81) — 1/29/2021 @ 2:07 pm
deck? card? I don’t know this deck you speak of. I’ll give the same suggestion I gave on the expulsion topic, you should go to the GA 14th District and explain to them this idea of the deck and card. Make sure you tell them you’re there to get their guns. That district seems like it’d have a lot of people waiting for someone to come collect them.frosty (f27e97) — 1/29/2021 @ 2:23 pm
I have no dog in this hunt, never having been either a Dem or a Republican, but it seems to me that it should be concerning to the Republican party that only 25% of the people in our center right country identify as Republicans, while 31% identify as Democrats.Nic (896fdf) — 1/29/2021 @ 2:35 pm
“Make sure you tell them you’re there to get their guns.”
Make sure you don’t interrupt them while they’re calling in death threats to Sandy Hook parents. Sorry, I mean “crisis actors”.Davethulhu (6ba00b) — 1/29/2021 @ 2:54 pm
Neocon Bill Kristol is irrelevant.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/29/2021 @ 5:11 pm
@81. It hasn’t bothered them for years, given the alternatives, as long as they could create an control the image of a candidate, sucker fringe and extremist groups repeatedly w/empty rhetoric to create coalitions to win cycles, then abandon them… but this time, it was one time too many.
Now they’ve swopped ends on them and lost control. No Yeagers in that group; hence the ol’ Neocon GOP is augering in. Hit the silk, Liz.DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/29/2021 @ 5:30 pm
I flopped down in my easy chair and turned on channel 2
A bad gunslinger called Salty Joe was a-chasin’ poor sweet Sue
He trapped her in the old sawmill and said with an evil laugh
“If you don’t give me all of your guns, I’ll saw you all in half”
And then he grabbed her (And then?)
He tied her up (And then?)
He turned on the buzz saw (And then? And then?)
Why, honeychile, poor Sweet Sue done gone and voted for Donald Trump and all was right again.
Ref: Along Came Jonesnk (1d9030) — 1/29/2021 @ 6:25 pm
Seriously, you think that Greene is motivated by concerns over gun control? She’s a nutter through and through. America can’t be held hostage by compromising with the crazies.Rip Murdock (bea13b) — 1/29/2021 @ 7:06 pm
Rip Murdock (bea13b) — 1/29/2021 @ 7:06 pm
Biden ran on a radical anti-gun platform. If your plan is that anything less than that is nuts and can’t be reasoned with then you’re the reason we’ve got Greene and why we’ll get more like her.frosty (f27e97) — 1/30/2021 @ 6:25 am
@87-Rip Murdock (328795) — 1/30/2021 @ 7:46 am
Personally I believe Americans should be able to own any weapon that can be hand carried by a soldier.
Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/29/2021 @ 11:48 am
We sort of slide by this one. Clinesmith was an attorney for the FBI and he altered information coming into the FBI, aka made false statements to the FBI related to an active investigation.
And everyone just nods along and says a slap on the wrist is more than enough.
Tell me again what happens to other people who make false statements to the FBI? Who keeps telling me the FBI and DOJ aren’t rotten at the core. This sort of stuff is an insult to honest field agents.frosty (f27e97) — 1/30/2021 @ 8:40 am
Judges aren’t dumb. Well, okay, not most of them, anyway, but you don’t have be Einstein to see that Clinesmith’s prosecution was pure vindictiveness on the part of Trump’s hitmen, Barr and Durham.
And I’ll tell you something else, too, Trump worshippers. Ain’t no Trump supporter got no moral authority whatsoever to tall about law and justice. Not after the January 6 treason, not after all of Trump’s pardons of cronies and photo-ops, and not after the execution of a woman.nk (1d9030) — 1/30/2021 @ 8:56 am
@90 whatabout, whatabout, and whatabout but also some ad hominemfrosty (f27e97) — 1/30/2021 @ 9:54 am
Yes, frosty, I know you have your fingers in your ears and “nyah, nyah, nyah, can’t hear [me]!”nk (1d9030) — 1/30/2021 @ 10:05 am
The big lie. I reject your paradigm and adopt my own. That is politics today. It’s criminal. A big lie maybe. Anybody fomenting the stolen election lie as the Big Lie needs to kiss my behind because in the past five years, that is certainly not the Big Lie.Richbert88 (995a5b) — 1/30/2021 @ 2:19 pm
Well, there are 35,000 others to choose from, pick.Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 1/30/2021 @ 3:54 pm
58. 62. 68/69/70
Hoi Polloi (139bf6) — 1/29/2021 @ 1:53 pm
They key thing is not to repeat both claims in the same room at the same time.
But eventually that will happen by accident.
You can argue that some people did it for this reason – they were planning violence – and others did it for another reason, or that the people planning violence were waiting for a go-ahead from Trump or what they thought was a go-ahead.
The problem with that is that it will probably turn out that most of the 300 plus people that are known to ave gone into the Capitol didn’t hear Trump speak, and those who did were being encouraged by other people in the crowd, and that nobody reasonable would think anything Trump said was an encouragement to violate the terms of the permit for the rally at the Capitol. The word “fight” used all the time.
Or that people planned violence but refrained until they heard what they thought was direction from Trump?Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/30/2021 @ 7:45 pm
89/ frosty (f27e97) — 1/30/2021 @ 8:40 am
The news reports don;t make any sense at all. The judge said Clinesmith was lazy and wanted to save himself work. How does being lazy cause you to change the wording of an e-mail? Is Clinesmith claiming he didn’t check? Then how can it be said he altered an email?
https://nypost.com/2021/01/29/fbi-lawyer-who-doctored-carter-page-email-gets-probationSammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/30/2021 @ 7:53 pm
Except there was no such direction from Trump.
There were people with bullhorns directing people to do the wrong thing.
I think this has got facts garbled. Maybe they came to Washington D.C. to hear Trump speak but Trump didn’t speak at the Capitol.
Alex Jones was also there with a bullhorn and he was trying to get people to go to the right place (even if he knew what was going to happen, he was careful to personally act properly) apparently to little or no avail.
This may have been a clever conspiracy by Ali Alexander and others, but of course in that case it’s reasonable to suppose that Donald Trump himself was conned. Alex Jones wanted to speak at the rally in the Ellipse but Trump told ” former campaign adviser Katrina Pierson, who had begun working with rally organizers” on January 4 that he mainly wanted members of Congress there. Alex Jones didn’t get to speak at the rally in the Ellipse but he got that at another rally held January 5. (Was he scheduled at the one that never took place at the Capitol? Did he or did he not truly expect that to take place?)
An investigating committee would know who to subpoena. Also Caroline Wren, Amy Kremer and Cindy Chafian,Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/30/2021 @ 8:28 pm
Sammy, I worry about you sometimes, I really do.nk (1d9030) — 1/30/2021 @ 8:32 pm
Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/30/2021 @ 7:53 pm
I don’t think I disagree with. I only think you understate it. This is someone who works for the FBI, who falsified information in an active investigation, and that information was presented to a judge as part of a FISA warrant that involved a presidential candidate. He doesn’t deny doing it. He doesn’t deny that it was a crime. He denies the intent to deceive but what other reason is there to have changed it? He has not conflicting evidence to justify changing it.
But people who, in other circumstances, are apoplectic about destroying norms and faiths in institutions shrug this off as no big deal. I don’t wonder why they do that. I understand. I think it’s ironic that they make the same revenge argument that people made for Flynn and Papadopoulos to dismiss it. But this is a big deal and the light sentence is also a big deal.frosty (f27e97) — 1/30/2021 @ 9:00 pm
My deck has the standard 52 cards. Yours might have fewer.Demosthenes (d7fc81) — 1/30/2021 @ 9:46 pm
frosty (f27e97) — 1/30/2021 @ 9:00 pm
By that time, the presidential candidate was resident and had fired the FBI Director. The FISA warrant on Carter Page had produced nothing of value, and this was for another application renewal. I am not sure if the application was granted; I think the last one was in May, 2017, and Clinesmith altered the email inn June.
The news reports I read are not specific enough to make his defense make any sense. Somehow the people who write them don’t see that. Obviously, even if untrue,
it did not come across as sheer nonsense to the judge, but how it cannot be nonsense I have no idea.
I don’t think this was an attempt to “get” Trump. It could not have that effect. I think this was an attempt to protect other people at the Bureau.
But people who, in other circumstances, are apoplectic about destroying norms and faiths in institutions shrug this off as no big deal. I don’t wonder why they do that. I understand. I think it’s ironic that they make the same revenge argument that people made for Flynn and Papadopoulos to dismiss it. But this is a big deal and the light sentence is also a big deal.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/30/2021 @ 11:56 pm
I wonder how many other false statements he or others at the FBI made. I think here it was part of an effort not to have the original FISA warrant questioned or reexamined.Sammy Finkelman (7bb55f) — 1/30/2021 @ 11:59 pm