Patterico's Pontifications

3/14/2020

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:35 am



[guest post by Dana]

It’s like there’s nothing happening in the world other than coronavirus. But still, feel free to talk about anything you think is newsworthy or might interest readers.

I’ll start.

First news item

The system is not geared up for what we need right now:

The entry of commercial lab companies Laboratory Corporation of America Holdings and Quest Diagnostics Inc to help identify cases of the new coronavirus does not seem to be easing the burden of testing in the United States.

Boosting testing capacity is crucial to assessing the scope of the U.S. outbreak and identifying where it is spreading most rapidly. There are currently more than 1,300 documented cases of coronavirus in the country, according to data from Johns Hopkins University, but experts say the actual number may be much higher because of the scarcity of diagnostic tests. There have been at least 38 documented deaths so far.

[…]

LabCorp and Quest said they now have the capacity to conduct thousands of tests per day and that they have already begun testing individuals for the respiratory disease caused by the coronavirus, COVID-19. But patients, doctors and government officials say there is still a shortage.

Second news item

Meeting the threshold to be put on hiatus at Fox Business:

Third news item:

Better late than never, but they’re still out there shaking hands and mixing with the crowds:

The White House has begun checking the temperatures of anyone in close contact with President Donald Trump or Vice President Mike Pence.
White House staff met reporters at the door of the press briefing room with a thermometer, checking the temperatures of everyone coming in for a noon conference called by Pence.

A man who appeared to be a journalist was blocked from entering because his 99.9 degree temperature was too high.

“Out of an abundance of caution, temperature checks are now being performed on any individuals who are in close contact with the President and Vice President.” White House spokesman Judd Deere said in a statement.

Fourth news item

Irony alert:

Mexico could consider measures at its northern border to slow the spread of the coronavirus into its relatively unaffected territory, health officials said on Friday, with an eye to containing a U.S. outbreak that has infected more than 1,800 people.

Mexico so far has confirmed 16 cases of the coronavirus, with no deaths. In the United States, 41 people have died.

Mexican Deputy Health Minister Hugo Lopez-Gatell said contagion from the United States was a threat.

“If it were technically necessary to consider mechanisms of restriction or stronger surveillance we would have to take into account not that Mexico would bring the virus to the United States, rather that the United States could bring it here,” he told a news conference.”

Fifth news item

Virus on solid objects:

Those experiments found that at least some coronavirus can potentially remain viable — capable of infecting a person — for up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to three days on plastic and stainless steel.

When aerosolized into fine, floating particles, the virus remained viable for three hours. On a copper surface, it was four hours, the study found. The median length of viability for the virus on stainless steel was 13 hours, and 16 hours on polypropylene, a common type of plastic.

The researchers used a nebulizer to aerosolize the virus, but in a natural environment, the virus does not spread through aerosol particles. Certain hospital treatments can result in aerosolized virus, but the main way the virus has been spreading has been through droplets — such as when someone sneezes or coughs. Such droplets can travel up to six feet.

As the coronavirus spreads, the simple act of touching a surface has become a delicate matter of risk analysis. The world is full of suspect surfaces. Is it safe to touch an ATM screen? Or the self-checkout at the grocery store? A door handle? A package that came in the mail?

FYI: Coronavirus updates at The Washington Post and The New York Times can be accessed anyone, even if you’ve used up your monthly freebies and/or don’t have a subscription. They are not behind the pay wall.

Exit question: Are you staying home (when possible)? Are you avoiding places where groups might congregate, even if in small numbers? Are you going for coffee, out to eat? Or are you just going out when absolutely necessary? Tell us where you’ve drawn the line.

Have a good weekend, in spite of everything. I’m going hiking to enjoy the solitude. But I won’t be surprised if the trail has more people on it than usual because everyone else is thinking the same thing!

–Dana

320 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  2. The WH now says that Trump HAS been tested. Presumably he was negative.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  3. Hello, Dana.

    Exit question:
    Are you staying at home (when possible)?
    Yes.
    Are you personally avoiding places where groups might congregate, even if in small numbers?
    No. I’ll be going to church tomorrow.
    Are you going for coffee, out to eat?
    No.
    Or are you just going out when absolutely necessary?
    Well ….
    Where have you drawn the line?
    I’ll advise my daughter not to take communion (Greeks share the spoon), and only bow to the icon (not kiss it).

    nk (1d9030)

  4. Thanks, Kevin. Here’s a link to the story:

    President Trump, wearing a “USA” baseball cap, held a news conference on Saturday in which announced that he had been tested for the coronavirus on Friday night, after which Vice President Mike Pence announced that the administration was extending its European travel ban to the United Kingdom and Ireland.

    […]

    Reporters pressed Mr. Trump about “mixed messages,” asking about why he shook hands with a row of chief executives who attended his news conference on Friday where he announced a national emergency.

    “It almost becomes a habit and you get out of that habit,” he said, noting that “getting away from shaking hands is a good thing.”

    Dana (4fb37f)

  5. Are you staying home (when possible)? Yes

    Are you avoiding places where groups might congregate, even if in small numbers? Not entirely. I have been to the grocery to get fresh vegetables and the like. Although I now have an impressive collection of frozen food and enough soup and chili to feed me (however uninterestingly) for a month. I draw the line at canned string beans though.

    Are you going for coffee, out to eat? No. Between my Kuerig, Nespresso and tea kettle, I’m set and Amazon can deliver the consumables. Restaurants are out, too.

    Or are you just going out when absolutely necessary? Being retired, I can cut this WAY down, too, and I am.

    Tell us where have you drawn the line: Nearly any trip other than to the grocery or the doctors (and that will probably not happen again until this ends or I catch it). I may get cabin fever in a while, but there are lots of things to do around the house that I’ve been putting off.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  6. Yes, handshaking is going to go out of style, at least for a while.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  7. Thanks, nk. Some local churches here have emailed parishoners that while in-person services have been cancelled, the pastor will still give a message and people can watch a livestreaming of it instead.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  8. The problem with isolating, though, is that it is hard to get everyone in the household to do the same. And apparently all it takes is one person to be exposed and the whole household gets it. One of the original cases here in Albuquerque was a person who contracted the virus in NYC. Now here entire extended family has tested positive, and several of them were elderly and are now in hospital.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  9. After Los Angeles Unified School District announced it was closing, school officials said that they would open 40 family resource centers to provide child care and meals to students whose parents cannot get out of work.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/world/coronavirus-news.html#link-126b691b

    Except for small children, I would think that kids in the home alone would be safer overall than being exposed daily to the risk of the virus (and then bringing it home to parents and relatives).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  10. apparently all it takes is one person to be exposed

    Yes. This makes everything very, very sensitve. Everyone needs to be on board or else…

    Dana (4fb37f)

  11. What a conundrum for parents though. Parents have to work, and depending on the age of the children, they may not be able to be home alone. Parents may not have the ability to stay home with them and take the pay cut, or there may not be a relative nearby (who will remain at home) to watch them. It’s not only that they need daycare, but they need daycare with someone willing to isolate (as much as possible), so that the child isn’t exposed and subsequently exposes their family members.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  12. I’m walking distance from the incomparable Lewis Fresh Produce so I ll pounce on the namesake items plus meats plus dairy in due time. Stocked up on other stuff had just bought a 24 of TP 10 days ago, but still in the previous rolls. I resolve to do one takeout trip per day, perhaps limited to coffee.

    Some say the TP frenzy has its origins in a The Walking Dead series scene where one of the survivors was asked what he missed most before the zombies and said “good toilet paper” . I think it’s because of all those years in the GWOT we were told we are the better civilization because we dont use a rock or our left hand.

    urbanleftbehind (9998d9)

  13. That is a risk, Kevin, and Chicago Public Schools is going to power clean (disinfect, not lift) a lot of Park District facilities in the next 3 days for the same purpose.

    urbanleftbehind (9998d9)

  14. “Yes, handshaking is going to go out of style, at least for a while.”

    A big plus would be if dat handshake with a half embrace would be banned for life.

    Getting Testy (2601c0)

  15. Chicago Public Schools is going to power clean

    Cleaning won’t help. It’s the kids that are the vectors and you can’t power-clean them. I suspect that the rate of spread of the disease is a function of the number of personal contacts, and the number of people involved in any one locale drives a higher order term.

    Italy screwed this up royally, to the point that a country-wide mandatory isolation is being tried as a Hail Mary attempt to flatten the already too high curve. We need to learn from what they did and did not do, and I think that most of what is going on in the US is based on that.

    Many people are going to die. But they should NOT die because the were triaged; they should at least have a chance to recover. I’ve had bronchial pneumonia, long ago, and it was terrible. I cannot imagine “bilateral interstitial pneumonia” which is often fatal and never pleasant, especially without medical intervention.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  16. “Yes, handshaking is going to go out of style, at least for a while.”

    A big plus would be if dat handshake with a half embrace would be banned for life.

    We are working on it.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  17. I think that people need to take this more seriously than they are.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  18. the TP frenzy

    I thought it was a fear of supply-chain disruption, and the one thing that no one wants to do without.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  19. Are you staying home (when possible)?

    Yes, my employer directed all non-essential people to work from home starting Monday. Most of Friday was spent communicating the plan and working through questions, expectations, enablers, and how this would impact current projects. Lots of questions from my team that we needed to work on. A few team members I needed to lay out pretty clear expectations for. One guy was already trying to define the minimum he’d need to do.

    Are you avoiding places where groups might congregate, even if in small numbers?

    Yes, but I’m being reasonable about it.

    Are you going for coffee, out to eat?

    I did last night. Won’t again. Watching the waitress deliver drinks and remove empty glasses was sort of gross. Plus it was really crowded.

    Or are you just going out when absolutely necessary? Tell us where have you drawn the line.

    I’m going to restrict it to necessary, wont’ push the envelope. If i need to hit a store I will. I’m currently debating the gym…

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  20. All this attention on the virus, and no one saw Bernie’s Comeback Tour:

    Sen. Bernie Sanders won the Northern Mariana Islands Democratic presidential caucus, grabbing four of the six delegates Saturday.
    Former Vice President Joe Biden won the other two. This shrinks Biden’s lead to 154 delegates in The Associated Press delegate count.

    Link. It’s a good thing Bloomberg is out, else he would’ve locked up the atoll electorate. Biden is undaunted.

    I’ve been tested before, faced great obstacles, great obstacles. There was a period when Barry and I were made aware of a great simulation, humans being used as batteries. I’ll tell you we went to war. I fought a man in a suit, thousands of ’em. Learned Kung Fu for the occasion.

    https://twitter.com/biden4pres/status/1238578413004185602

    As to the exit question, I live in the Wuhan of the US and am not making a single change (except for keeping the hands cleaner, not touching my face so much or other people*), but change was thrust upon Mrs. Montagu. The school district where she works is shut down ’til 4/26. She still has to show up for work on Monday to do…well, we’re not sure what they’re going to have her do, but it damn well better not be janitorial work.
    * Basketball excepted, although one of the guys brought some hand sanitizer.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  21. There are Sunday services at our church, but it’ll be a live podcast only. No one will be physically be in the church except for staff and musicians.
    As I was picking some Thai last night, I noticed that Breaking of the Winds Arena is shut down ’til at least 3/31. No Cher, no Silvertips hockey, no other gatherings.
    I also noticed that the restaurants are reasonably attended, but the Twin Foxes Tavern was veritably bustling, but the patrons there have already been infected by a whole slew of viruses.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  22. I made a huge change yesterday, steak tartare was on the menu and I went with the mussels instead. That’s a massive change.

    All the extra hand washing is drying my skin out, so “he rubs the lotion on his skin…” eww.

    My flights Monday morning and Wed afternoon are pretty empty, but yesterday’s from Charlotte to Cincy was quite full.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  23. We’re still going to go on our spring break trip. My wife has been through much worse than this, by far, and I let her decide.

    Plus with the schools closed and the kids home 24/7 indefinitely, we’re going to need a break.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  24. The only change our church has made, so far, is the cancellation of a series of book lectures because most of the guest lecturers are under travel restrictions.

    nk (1d9030)

  25. “I think that people need to take this more seriously than they are.”
    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/14/2020 @ 10:32 am

    This blog has stopped talking about Roger Stone, so that should indicate how very serious this is.

    I wonder if “All hell is breaking loose” at the DOJ still. Don’t leave us hanging!!

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  26. As I noted the other day, the meetingest people on the planet, the LDS church, have canceled all meetings world-wide. This is unprecedented.

    As for misef, I am taking a rather fatalistic view, mostly out of facing the practical. I have kids and grandkids that I cannot isolate myself from, and they are engaged in the world. One is flying in from SF this afternoon.

    As it happens, I’m in the “bad” cohort WRT my age. As Jimmy Malone says in The Untouchables, “What the hell; you gotta die of something”. So, as I’m fond of counseling, we’ll see what happens…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  27. This blog has stopped talking about Roger Stone, so that should indicate how very serious this is.

    Even you have the snap to know that there’s nothing Stone related going on currently. Any time you come across some news, be sure to let us know.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  28. Exit question:

    Are you staying at home (when possible)?
    Yes.
    Are you personally avoiding places where groups might congregate, even if in small numbers?
    Yes.
    Are you going for coffee, out to eat?
    No. Fresh ground, freshly brewed at home.
    Or are you just going out when absolutely necessary?
    Consolidating errand runs; twice-maybe three times/week, tops– and yes, wearing a mask and maintaining the one/two meter distancething in lines at places like post office, bank and grocery store.
    Where have you drawn the line?
    Obviously no theme parks, no movie theaters, no library visits [if they’re still open]– and w/shopping list in hand, restricting any time in a store necessary to patronize w/many people to 20 minutes, tops.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  29. What I don’t get is how China, with 1.35 billion people, has 3200 deaths and Italy with 60 million people (1/20th of China’s population) has about half as many deaths (and counting).

    China has to be lying badly.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  30. I expect air travel worldwide to cease before the end of March.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  31. A new case in the UK raises the possibility that the virus can be transmitted from a mother to her baby in the womb:

    A newborn baby has tested positive for coronavirus in what is thought to be the youngest case of the disease in the UK, it has emerged.

    The child’s mother, who was taken to a north London hospital days before the birth with suspected pneumonia, has also caught the virus.

    The mother tested positive at North Middlesex hospital, in Enfield, with results coming through after the birth. The baby was tested for Covid-19 minutes after being born.

    The NHS trust confirmed that two patients tested positive for coronavirus, with staff in close contact with them during treatment now being advised to self-isolate.

    It is not known whether the child contracted the disease in the womb or was infected during birth. The Sun, which first revealed the case, reported that the baby was still being treated at the hospital but the mother has been transferred to a specialist infections hospital.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  32. @26. Postscript–and washing hands several times/day nd especially after return from stores– and wiping clean the steering wheel and car keys in vehicles- particularly after touching items in stores. Running dishwasher daily, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  33. “China has to be lying badly.”
    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/14/2020 @ 11:45 am

    Or, China is the sort of totalitarian society we always thought it was, and Italy isn’t.

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/china-s-aggressive-measures-have-slowed-coronavirus-they-may-not-work-other-countries

    Two widely used mobile phone apps, AliPay and WeChat—which in recent years have replaced cash in China—helped enforce the restrictions, because they allow the government to keep track of people’s movements and even stop people with confirmed infections from traveling. “Every person has sort of a traffic light system,” says mission member Gabriel Leung, dean of the Li Ka Shing Faculty of Medicine at the University of Hong Kong. Color codes on mobile phones—in which green, yellow, or red designate a person’s health status—let guards at train stations and other checkpoints know who to let through.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  34. Folks… I have an outbuilding – no, not an outhouse – where I’ve stockpiled a massive amount of toilet paper and drinking water, so… when the schiff hits the fan, we’ll at least be hydrated and fastidiously hygienic.

    This is Colonel Haiku. I asked him to try changing names to figure out why his comments aren’t appearing. Still working on it but you can change back to Haiku and we will try to catch your comments for now.

    Goofing on it (2601c0)

  35. Whoops

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  36. @27. Other factors; the median age of China is 37.4; the median age of Italy is 45.5 and you’d have to dig through the numbers to see which country skews more toward the elderly, to interpret what percentage are more susceptible. And China’s draconian – or ‘dragonian’ if you like- response to isolate, lock down and scrub down whole cities, test door to door, assemble emergency hospitals and so forth was more immediate than Italy’s staged response which resulted in the whole country to be locked down and quarantined.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  37. Wondered why we hadn’t heard from Haiku in awhile. More Col!

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  38. Are you staying home (when possible)? Well, apparently my spring break started Friday and will go however long, so I’m definitely staying home more than usual. We have an admin meeting Monday morning but other than that, no work for a few weeks at least.

    Are you avoiding places where groups might congregate, even if in small numbers? Not really.

    Are you going for coffee, out to eat? The question has not yet arisen.

    Or are you just going out when absolutely necessary? I’m trying to limit unnecessary trips, but I’m not going to hibernate.

    Tell us where have you drawn the line. Basically I’m taking reasonable precautions, but I work in a school and there have been cases in my general area. I have kind of a fatalistic attitude that it’s at least 50/50 that I have already been exposed. Also, I am not in a danger group and I live alone, so I’m not endangering anyone other than myself.

    Nic (896fdf)

  39. Mexico could consider measures at its northern border to slow the spread of the coronavirus into its relatively unaffected territory, health officials said on Friday, with an eye to containing a U.S. outbreak that has infected more than 1,800 people.

    My God, Mexico really is going to pay for the border wall.

    I am trying to go out once a day for a walk to the beach. I’m also going to be attending an anniversary party for a small business in my neighborhood. And I have been going into the grocery store as necessary to buy fresh fruit and other stuff. They were out of bread yesterday, so I’ll poke my head in today to see if they have a new shipment in. So I am refusing to be totally cooped up, but I’m also limiting my contact with people as much as possible.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  40. Colonel Haiku,

    Please try posting again as Colonel Haiku.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  41. New: France to close non-essential public places, including restaurants, bars, and cinemas, in effort to stop coronavirus

    Dana (4fb37f)

  42. Two cities up from me, Manhattan Beach, had their first two confirmed cases reported on Wednesday. Both were people who had been traveling overseas. So far there are no reports of confirmed cases in Redondo Beach.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  43. France to close non-essential public places, including restaurants, bars, and cinemas, in effort to stop coronavirus.

    Ouch. This is just what I fear is going to happen here.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  44. @ Nic and @ JVW:

    This: I’m trying to limit unnecessary trips, but I’m not going to hibernate. And: I am refusing to be totally cooped up, but I’m also limiting my contact with people as much as possible.

    Yep, that’s about I’m at with this too.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  45. As far as I know my parish is going to stick to our regular schedule of six masses over the weekend. I am going to try to go to the 8:00 am mass tomorrow morning and see what the turn-out is like. I went to the 10:00 am mass last Sunday and it was probably only about 2/3 of the usual turn-out, so I will be interested in seeing how that changes in a week. The Archbishop of the Diocese of Los Angeles has given us permission to skip mass and just watch it on television instead.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  46. Travel ban extended to U.K. and Ireland. Domestic travel ban being considered for “hot” areas.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  47. Hey, munroe!

    A star is born! This guy doing the sign language for the DeSantis presser is effing hilarious…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  48. As Trump and the Congress consider what we must do to keep America growing and prosperous, they have to recognize that we may need to grow strongly enough to help pull Europe out of a deep recession by this fall. We can’t just think about what is happening economically in the United States. A collapsing Europe would have huge impact on the entire world economy, including America.

    We do not need a “stimulus” package or a “recovery” package. We need an economic growth package that stimulates and invests in the kind of development that grows a bigger, better, more productive, more competitive American economy for the future.

    As Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell indicated, the Congress has to stay in session until it passes the program necessary to both defeat the pandemic and regrow the American economy.

    Newtie Gingrich is full-tilt BIG GOVERNMENT Collectivist now. Like Duh Donald.

    Does his sparing a thought for Europe make him a glooooooobalist? Interesting…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  49. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe says that Japan still intends to conduct the Olympic Games this summer. I find it to be increasingly far-fetched, but I hope for the sake of the athletes that they are somehow able to make this happen.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  50. Memo to Mitt:

    Willard wonders why SK can test so many people and America can’t seem to organize a similar response.

    Here’s why, Willard: The South Korean healthcare system is run by the Ministry of Health and Welfare and is free to all citizens at the point of delivery. The system is funded by a compulsory National Health Insurance Scheme that covers 97% of the population. Foreign nationals living in South Korea enjoy the same access to universal healthcare as the local people. – source,wikiswabanose

    “I talk to the trees; but they don’t listen to me…” – Sylvester Newel [Clint Eastwood] ‘Paint Your Wagon’ 1969

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  51. If, Heaven forbid, this virus spreads to the degree that some experts believe is possible, do the urban planners start to revisit their yearning for high-density housing located along public transportation lines? I say this because I am reading about places like New York City, downtown Los Angeles, San Francisco, and others where people are really freaking out about living in apartment complexes with shared elevators, front doors, hallways, etc.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  52. DCSCA, read this about the South Korean health care system. While it’s true that there is a public socialized component to it, it turns out that eight in ten South Koreans also purchase a form of private insurance to supplement what the state offers. Furthermore, over ninety percent of the country’s hospitals are privately owned without any sort of public subsidy, and the state does not set the prices they can charge. Don’t tell Comrade Candidate or our Delightfully Clueless Congresswoman Niece.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  53. We should just convert all sports leagues to Xbox competitions.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  54. It’s like there’s nothing happening in the world other than coronavirus. But still, feel free to talk about anything you think is newsworthy or might interest readers.

    Good candidate for the craziest story currently on CNN’s homepage:

    Buffalo nickels: Tips on how to start building a collection

    Dave (1bb933)

  55. France Order’s non-essential public places to close.

    Rachel Donadio
    @RachelDonadio
    FRANCE NOW AT EPIDEMIC LEVEL. All restaurants, cafés, non-essential services closed. MORE THAN 50% OF THE 300 #COVIDー19 CASES IN FRENCH ICUs ARE PEOPLE UNDER 60; France now has 4,500 cases, which doubled in the past 72 hours, said Jérôme Salomon, head of French health service.

    Spain set to declare national lockdown

    Under the decree being finalised, people would be allowed out only for emergencies, to buy food, or for work.

    With 191 deaths and 6,046 infections, Spain is the worst-hit country in Europe after Italy, which declared a nationwide lockdown on Monday.

    A visual Representation for why social distancing can have an impact.

    Financial times has a great article on Coronovirus tracing. Wish I could embed the chart.

    The coronavirus has now taken hold in Europe, with the largest number of confirmed cases in Italy. In most western countries case numbers have been increasing by about 33 per cent a day, a sign that other countries may soon be facing the same challenge as Italy.

    This means that it doubles every 4 days. It also shows that the countries that quickly took strong steps have done better than those that don’t. Our political system doesn’t easily allow the same steps, but American’s are community minded and will rise to the occasion when called. We could have done better. We can still do a lot but I don’t think we’re doing enough. From here on out I’m staying in unless there’s a true need.

    Time123 (306531)

  56. Exit question:

    Are you staying at home (when possible)?
    Yes.
    Are you personally avoiding places where groups might congregate, even if in small numbers?
    Yes.
    Are you going for coffee, out to eat?
    No. Fresh ground, freshly brewed at home.
    Or are you just going out when absolutely necessary?
    Consolidating errand runs; twice-maybe three times/week, top
    Where have you drawn the line?
    Obviously no theme parks, no movie theaters, no library visits [if they’re still open]– and w/shopping list in hand, restricting any time in a store necessary to patronize w/many people to 20 minutes, tops.

    Time123 (306531)

  57. @52. So? Nothing wrong w/a private option availabilty if ‘folks’ want to pay; the real world reality and point is the infrastructure— the organization was/is in place to manage and deliver. As in the UK, the mobile NHS vans are at the ready to deliver care at street level to the citizenry. They see their system at work. Setting up ‘tents’ in Walmart parking lots is so johnny-come-lately-half-azzed for a wealthy nation like America and just another example of how the U.S. is increasingly out of step w/t modern world– and being left behind.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  58. Good candidate for the craziest story currently on CNN’s homepage:

    OK, I’m going to fess up and admit that I collected coins when I was a kid. I well remember purchasing a roll of forty nickels for two bucks and hoping to find some treasures in there. So I actually enjoyed this article. And I agree with the part about holding a 1913 nickel in your hand and realizing that once upon a time it could buy you a movie ticket or a sandwich; I remember as a kid in the 1970s owning an 1864 Indian Cent penny and realizing that it dated back to the Civil War.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  59. @52. So? Nothing wrong w/a private option availabilty if ‘folks’ want to pay;

    My point is that this is a nonstarter where the single-payer advocates are concerned. That’s why I specifically mentioned Senator Stalin and his opening act, our niece. And both Lieawatha and Intersectionality Bingo tied themselves in knots trying to reconcile this with their grandiose plans.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  60. Governor Roy Cooper
    @NC_Governor

    Today, I’m issuing an Executive Order to stop mass gatherings of more than 100 people across the state. We issued this as guidance on Thursday, however, despite this guidance, several venues continued their events, so today’s order makes it mandatory.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  61. OK, I’m going to fess up and admit that I collected coins when I was a kid.

    Same. I had (IIRC) an 1865 2-cent piece, and a Morgan silver dollar from the 1880’s.

    Nothing wrong with the article itself, it just seems oddly out of place in the current situation.

    Dave (1bb933)

  62. Comrade President just got a bunch of constitutional changes rubber-stamped, including the ability for him to remain in office until 2036.

    If he does, he will have been in power longer than Lenin and Stalin. Combined.

    Dave (1bb933)

  63. @57. OK, I’m going to fess up and admit that I collected coins when I was a kid.

    So did I.

    And I had a good primer- back in the 1920s and 30s, when my late grandfather was in banking and closer to the ‘tellers’– he’d trade out paper money for silver dollars that came in over the years – in varying degrees of wear and circulation. Over the decades he managed to accumulate maybe 300 of them– but in the 50s and 60s– he had a bad habit of ‘tipping’ w/them– skycaps and such– at airports and so forth so the total dropped to around 200 by the time I managed to get him to stop doing it and corralled them to grade and catalogue. Some of them are in mint condition -still w/their mint luster- – some w/much more ciculation wear. He also kept odd rolls of Franklin silver halves, paper gold and silver certificates as well– still in their $25 bank wrappers in sequence. And he had a bug-a-boo about keeping some U.S. paper currency without ‘In God We Trust’ on it which is interesting to look it.

    While in the UK, we managed to find a lot of old U.S. coinage and currency at very low prices, too– the Brits really werent interested in it– Civil War era stuff, late 1800s etc., usually at Camden Passage or Portobello Road flea markets on weekends.I still kp n 1846 Large Cent in my wallet– and a British George III copper from Revolutionary War times– it didn’t cost more than $2. We also began collecting/saving a lot of British coins- especially the silver half-crowns, shilling and sixpences from the 20s, 30s and 40s, which were still in circulation in the late 1960s. The silver content in those coins was quite high, too. Most startling was adjusting to the age of the coinage available. In the states, anything from the 1800s was considered a find. In the UK, Victorian coinage was all over and quite inexpensive — and ancient Roman coins were easily available or just a few dollars.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  64. First rain in the Mother Lode in six weeks. Since late Jan it’s gone either north or south.

    Supposed to rain for next week. Hallelujah!

    Doing firewood and other chores here and since I took time off I’m luckier than most. Pop was a hoarder of certain things and I have enough toilet paper to last thru 2022 (and he’s been gone since Sept.). Staying home except for abso necessary trips.

    Also really hoping that everyone stays sane while some try and whip up a panic.

    Common sense & cleanliness!
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  65. Nothing wrong with the article itself, it just seems oddly out of place in the current situation.

    I hear you, but I frankly welcome it. I’m hoping to blog on some non-Coronavirus and non-Trump items — if that is possible — a bit later.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  66. @58. My point is the infrastructure and organization is in place–and that’s most of the ball game; just from a psychological POV, seeing the system working can quell fear and is reassuring to citizen. Tents in Walmart parking lots is not. I personally have no issue w/having both a private and a NHS-styled single-payer system available for citizens. As mentioned on another thread, I’ve experienced both- and found the NHS system to be much better at delivering quality and affordable care at street level. It’s not a political thing but based on first hand experience w/family. We literally only had to show a card and got access to doctors and meds; the bureaucuacy was much less complex and ponderous than in the U.S. And when my Dad tried to pay for care– they refused to take it. Sander’s POV-to eliminate all private insurance- is way too extreme, but his message on the core ills of healthcare system is not; it’s the messenger that’s in dispute.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  67. Kindred sprits, DCSCA, I have a very similar collection to yours. I filled up all of the Whitman penny, nickel, dime, and quarter books, even those years in which there was still some silver in the coins. And no, for the record, I did not obtain a 1909 Lincoln penny with the VDB initials, no matter what I might later claim.

    My dad, who got me started in the hobby, got me a membership one year to the local coin collector’s club in our town. We would meet on a Sunday once a month. The guy who ran the club, Mr. Manley, also owned the local coin and stamp collector’s shop, and he would donate door prizes for the meetings. Since I was the only guy there under 40 — by three decades — they used to from time to time rig the drawing so that I would win. So I have a very cool silver-plated proof set from the 1976 Bicentennial year, as well as a great collection of Eisenhower dollars in a proof set. Fun memories.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  68. Trump tests positive.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  69. Or, China is the sort of totalitarian society we always thought it was, and Italy isn’t.

    Uh, no. They are totalitarian AND lying badly. There is no way that they contained this thing to the numbers they suggest after 2 months of pretending is wasn’t happening. The spread outside of the country makes that statistically unlikely as well. They claim that only 0.006% of they population was even sick with this, and that 0.0002% died. When the US is looking at — best case — a death rate almost 100 times that. They ARE lying.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  70. Not true. Sorry, I should’ve looked at the attachment first, since it came from my brother.

    He’s such a kidder

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  71. If he does, he will have been in power longer than Lenin and Stalin. Combined

    Well, Stalin poisoned Lenin pretty quickly, so that’s not much of an add-on. Queen Elizabeth has them all beat.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  72. “Are you staying home (when possible)?” No. I work retail, so work from home is not an option. My wife is an executive admin assistant. She has the capability of working from home, but so far she has not. Our son is too young be home alone. Thankfully my parents are retired and live close, so they’ve offered to watch him as needed. School systems in our part of Indiana closed starting yesterday.

    “Are you avoiding places where groups might congregate, even if in small numbers?” No. But all the event cancellations have pretty much taken care of that for us. My wife has a work trip scheduled next month. As of now, it’s still on. I imagine that will probably change this week, though.

    “Are you going for coffee, out to eat?” We went out to dinner last night. The restaurant had about the typical number of patrons for a Friday evening, I don’t know if we’ll continue.

    “Or are you just going out when absolutely necessary?” We’re taking it one day at a time.

    “Tell us where you’ve drawn the line.” Again, one day at a time. I haven’t drawn a line yet,. We’re paying attention to the news and figuring out what other adjustments we need to make. That said, we’re not in a high-risk category (e.g. haven’t been out of the country, no underlying health conditions, etc.).

    Jeff Lebowski (1da41f)

  73. Today, I’m issuing an Executive Order to stop mass gatherings of more than 100 people across the state.

    There’s a lot of this going on. The typical number has dropped from 250 to 100 in the last few days.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  74. There’s a lot of this going on. The typical number has dropped from 250 to 100 in the last few days.

    L.A. Mayor Eric Garcetti pegged the number at 50.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  75. @67. Add this to the collecting habit, JVW: my great uncle worked in the post office in the 20s, 30s and 40s–and he had access to choose the various plate blocks, FDCs and so forth and began a collection that ran into the mid 1960s before he passed – back then it was a relatively inexpensive hobby as well and for $10 or $20 you could keep it going back in the day. He and my grandfather got into the United Nations stamp issues for a time as well- which in the 50s and 60s was actually quite a popular vnue–not so now. But as U.S. stamp prices climbed and the USPS began creating lines of ‘stamp products’ to market the hobby in the 1980s it just got to be too costly. Also, gummed stamps from back in the day will survive the test of time while these days the ‘sticky stamps’ likely won’t as the ‘stickum’ on the back will eventually bleed through the paper of the stamp over decades of time.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  76. “Queen Elizabeth has them all beat.“

    The only British monarch in my lifetime and I was born in ‘57.

    And speaking of collecting coins, I have plenty older and more valuable ones but my 1964 Bermuda Crown still in the proof case is one of my faves.

    elizabeth ii dei gratia regina
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  77. Many have said for a very long time that society hangs by a thread from devolving into dystopia. We are on the precipice.

    Stiff upper lips are from a distant age. Carry on? Nah. Carry out all the TP you can lay your hands on!

    The coming economic contagion will be quite something to behold. We adamantly refused to incorporate reasonable safeguards to the insane lending and valuation practices which bit us a decade ago. Now, the mass layoffs and firings of those who are least able to weather such presage a collapse. As Jackie Gleason gleefully proclaimed many Saturday evenings, “Awaaaaaay we go!” Unfortunately, this time it is a tragic announcement.

    I have not personally adjusted my already minimal ventures out, mainly to daily Mass. It very much seems like I won’t have that option for much longer.

    Ed from SFV (950df5)

  78. Meanwhile, Andrew Gillum, would-be Florida governor was found by paramedics in a room with meth and a gay escort (who had collapsed)

    Andrew Gillum was caught in a room with more than just drugs.

    The man who overdosed on crystal meth in a Florida hotel room with Gillum, a Democrat who made an unsuccessful bid for Florida governor, was an openly gay male escort with a profile on the website RentMen.com, Florida’s Local10 reported Friday.

    Travis Dyson also identified himself as a “pornstar performer” who offered services including “gay massage.” He went by the name Brodie Scott on his Rent-Men profile.

    https://nypost.com/2020/03/14/man-busted-with-andrew-gillum-in-hotel-room-with-meth-was-gay-escort/

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  79. Certainly is ironic that Mexico is building a wall to keep out the gringos – are we fleeing to Mexico for their superior healthcare system, or because they still have toilet paper? Ah, I see, they aren’t actually building a wall, they’re just tightening up their border control. Yes, it is indeed ironic that people who have claimed for the last several years that tighter border control is racist and inhumane and a really terrible, no-good, very bad thing don’t seem to be jumping on the this story quite so much as you might expect.

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  80. Gee, it sure is taking a while to get those results from Trump’s test. The longer it takes the more likely the result is positive. Intubate him and he can’t talk. Then pretend you can’t find his mobile so he can’t tweet.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  81. Yes, it is indeed ironic that people who have claimed for the last several years that tighter border control is racist and inhumane and a really terrible, no-good, very bad thing don’t seem to be jumping on the this story quite so much as you might expect.

    I don’t know which died first: The Rule of Law, or Intellectual Honesty.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  82. Jerryskids, at 80: the kinds of border controls advocated by Trump and his supporters would have had no effect on the transmission of this virus. This is a virus that has a long incubation period, which means that unless you’re going to quarantine all tourists for two weeks upon arrival — something that some countries are doing now but which wasn’t on anyone’s proposed agenda at the start of the year — sealing the border against *immigrants* and *refugees* isn’t effective at preventing transmission — unless there is independent reason to believe the particular populations you’re sealing against are reservoirs.

    *today* i’d support an absolute seal on the border, nobody going in OR out, for three weeks. but then again i’d also support a near total lockdown on movement of people for three weeks as it would give us the single greatest chance of dropping R0 below 1 and causing the pandemic to burn out.

    but that doesn’t mean i think the policy proposals that people have been pushing regarding the mexican border are even *relevant*.

    aphrael (971fba)

  83. @68. I did not obtain a 1909 Lincoln penny with the VDB initials, no matter what I might later claim.

    Closest approach: actually saw one once decades ago in the window of a high end UK coin store. $$$$$ of course.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  84. @81. If it comes back postive, he’ll keep taking them on the QT until one comes back negative–like in 14 days… and if that leaks, he’ll claim a false positive. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  85. I think the test takes up to 48 hours to culture, even for Presidents.

    I watched the video Dana linked. What stood out to me is how often the two doctors hung their heads, looked away, or looked pained at things Trump said. Their reactions were identical.

    DRJ (15874d)

  86. Posts like these are enjoyable to me because I learn about the people who comment here. As for me:

    Are you staying home (when possible)? Yes. I bought a new TV last year, and recently became adept at streaming. What a great time to enjoy the immense offerings.

    Are you avoiding places where groups might congregate, even if in small numbers? Yes. I was going to visit the Bay Area (my former home) this weekend, but decided to hunker down here in Reno instead. My medical appointment on Monday will be via video now.

    Are you going for coffee, out to eat? Hell no on the coffee. Not because of the virus, but because my home brew is so good. I have a special machine that will roast and then cool coffee beans. Then I put them through a burr grinder (blade grinders are garbage) for an even grind. Then, it’s either pour-over or French press. Top it off with some heavy whipping cream and I am in coffee heaven. Not bad for a guy who was raised Mormon, am I right :)? By the way, I have to thank whoever it was on here that mentioned the superiority of light roasting.

    I would probably go out to a restaurant if it wasn’t crowded, but I almost always eat at home regardless.

    Or are you just going out when absolutely necessary? So far I’ve been going to the grocery store and the gym. I’m thinking about foregoing the gym, but that is a hard move for me. I’ve been working out at the gym regularly for the past year, and am addicted to it now. Sure, I can exercise at home or outdoors somewhere, but I won’t get the weightlifting, which is the most addictive part.

    As I mentioned on a previous thread, I’m mostly concerned about my 88-year-old mother, who has COPD but is otherwise fairly healthy. She lives in Provo, which so far doesn’t seem to have a lot of infection, but as somebody recently stated on NPR, the cases we are hearing about now are where the virus was a week (or two) ago.

    I have persuaded my mother to stay at home, and let my brother or niece do her grocery shopping, leaving the groceries on her porch. Fortunately, my mom lives next to her sister, who recently lost her husband, so they can keep each other company.

    norcal (a5428a)

  87. The test has come back: negative.

    Or so they say.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  88. So, what are good things to stream as we wait for the world to end, or not?

    I’d suggest the following great TV series:

    The Wire
    Breaking Bad
    Buffy, the Vampire Slayer
    Babylon 5
    Band of Brothers
    Downton Abbey
    Fargo
    The Expanse
    Veronica Mars

    and, of course, the 1994 miniseries The Stand, now in HD.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  89. “ Meanwhile, Andrew Gillum, would-be Florida governor was found by paramedics in a room with meth and a gay escort (who had collapsed)”

    This story really showed the reverse-Covington rule: don’t rush to exonerate until you get more complete info.

    All sorts of libs saying he just happened to be nearby/was only trying to help/was attending a wedding/‘haven’t you ever got drunk at a wedding?’ and other excuses (i even saw one from MSNBC’s Sam Stein that said the meth was immaterial because it was on the floor) really had it blow up in their faces.

    A good test of whether his wife knew about his poppers & poopers parties is how she reacts.
    __ _

    harkin (b64479)

  90. @ norcal:

    I have persuaded my mother to stay at home, and let my brother or niece do her grocery shopping, leaving the groceries on her porch. Fortunately, my mom lives next to her sister, who recently lost her husband, so they can keep each other company.

    What is it with having to “persuade” our elderly parents to behave? My 90 year old mom was all set to go out to her bookclub, but thankfully I was able to persuade her to skip it and it simultanesouly started pouring rain, so she scrapped the idea. I’m glad your mom has her sis next door to keep company with. My mom’s home has put safety protocols in place, thus all the usual weekly events (of which there are many, including but not limited to history classes, ukelele lessos and class on the aging brain and how it reacts to various stimuli…) have been cancelled. Clearly, it’s for the best and the residents understand, but a lot of those aged souls who have endured so much in life are nonetheless annoyed by the change.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  91. So, what are good things to stream as we wait for the world to end, or not?

    Good list, Kevin. I’ve watched the whole series of The Wire twice.

    To your list I would add:

    The Americans

    Better Call Saul (prequel to Breaking Bad, and just about as good)

    El Camino (sequel movie to Breaking Bad)

    Homeland

    House of Cards (great for political junkies like us, and not as left-leaning as I thought it would be)

    norcal (a5428a)

  92. Kevin M,

    The Stranger on Netflix
    Pale Horse on Amazon
    Ackley Bridge on Acorn
    Doc Blake Mysteries on Amazon

    (hm, I sure watch a lot of English/Australian shows…)

    Oh, and just watched the Spenser Confidential on Netflix, which is based on the “Spenser” detective books (which I love). The first one was okay. Maybe they’ll find their footing as it goes on.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  93. Yes, Better Call Saul…

    Dana (4fb37f)

  94. I’d suggest the following great TV series:

    The Last Kingdom (Netflix)
    Chernobyl (Amazon)
    The Norsemen (Netflex)
    Trotsky (Netflix)
    The Death Of Stalin (Amazon)
    The Pacific (Amazon)
    Justified (Amazon)
    Bancroft
    Case Histories
    Endeavor
    Peter Sellers on youtube, master woodworker

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  95. What is it with having to “persuade” our elderly parents to behave?

    Exactly, Dana. My mom was all set to go see her attorney yesterday, and would not be dissuaded. Blessedly, her attorney decided it wasn’t a good idea, and shifted their business to a phone call.

    Even harder than convincing my mom to stay at home was not to accept visitors, especially my brother, who runs all over creation and is not the cleanest person in the world. I still remember when he would do his laundry and spread his wet clothes on the carpet to dry! One time he asked me how my white clothes were so white. Bleach, brother, bleach!

    norcal (a5428a)

  96. What is it with having to “persuade” our elderly parents to behave?

    You don’t own your mother and are not entitled to x years of her life. She’s going to die relatively soon anyway. She probably wants to live her life and enjoy it as she has learned to do, not shelter in place in isolation.

    Also “behave”? That’s kind of an arrogant thing to say about your own mother, going to a book club no less, don’t you think?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  97. MAOA,

    It’s important to keep your sense of humor during a time of crisis.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  98. As well as your sense of self.

    Besides, the crisis isn’t as severe as you think it is. This virus originated in the United States, is more genetically diverse here, and has had more time and transmissibility to evolve to less deadly strains: there are at least five of them in America so far. This is the real reason why tests were so hard to come by early and why America didn’t buy the WHO tests, to create plausible deniability as to its origins.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  99. CDC shut down germ research at Fort Detrick in August of last year. There’s a reason for that.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  100. 99,

    I refer you back to 98.

    Dana (4fb37f)

  101. MAOA,

    My mother wants to live much longer, and is grateful for my advice, since she was a little clueless on how the virus spreads BEFORE confirmed cases start popping up. She knows that I care about her. People use my mom’s house as a pit stop for all kinds of things, and she has a hard time saying no. Helping her realize the threat of the virus helped her stiffen up.

    Part of the reason she was clueless is how Fox News was downplaying the threat. Unfortunately, my mom has succumbed to the habit of viewing everything through a Trump lens, as in “Does this help or hurt Trump?”

    norcal (a5428a)

  102. I get the sense that you used the word “behave.” However, I chose to answer it seriously because I think your mom has a point: she probably won’t die from it anyway. She may die from something else anyway. She gets pleasure from her book club. Pleasure and joy and companionship.

    Who is to say, with certainty, that her judgment wasn’t better? I don’t know with certainty. It’s unknowable, basically.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  103. My mother wants to live much longer, and is grateful for my advice, since she was a little clueless on how the virus spreads BEFORE confirmed cases start popping up.

    Well, then good for you for giving her better advice based on her own desires, goals, and values. I respect that. I just don’t respect the idea that adults with great years and experience in life can’t make their own informed choices, including about risk to themselves and their health vs. doing what they want to do. She could take up tandem parachuting if she’s so inclined, so far as I’m concerned. Or put safety as her maximum priority.

    Part of the reason she was clueless is how Fox News was downplaying the threat.

    No doubt.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  104. Better Call Saul — you need to watch Breaking Bad first.
    The Americans — yes, of course.
    Homeland — excellent for 3 seasons, then it turns mediocre
    House of Cards (US) — Poor understanding of civics and politics in general
    House of Cards (UK) — Excellent
    Endeavor — you have to like low key
    Chernobyl — fantastic, even if the “Europe is going to blow up” thing is silly

    And then there is The Walking Dead. It’s not really about zombies.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  105. I just saw The Stranger and Spenser Confidential, Dana. I’ve always been a Harlan Coben fan (try Safe on Netflix), and I hope Wahlberg makes a few sequels.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  106. This virus originated in the United States, is more genetically diverse here, and has had more time and transmissibility to evolve to less deadly strains: there are at least five of them in America so far. This is the real reason why tests were so hard to come by early and why America didn’t buy the WHO tests, to create plausible deniability as to its origins.

    This is the nutter story de jure from the darkest basement of the alt-right fever dreamers.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  107. @ Kevin M 5:49 PM

    Designated Survivor was excellent for about 10 minutes, then sucked.

    However, the South Korean version, Designated Survivor: 60 Days, was outstanding, with better writing and infinitely better action. I ordinarily hate subtitles, but the acting was just so picture perfect I enjoyed every minute of it.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  108. *infinitely better acting, I meant to say.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  109. @104 Well-stated, MAOA. One can offer friendly advice, but arm-twisting is out of line. Older people should be able to live their lives as they see fit. One thing I find especially sad is when kids take the car keys from their parents. That has happened to a couple of my relatives, even though their driving was fine.

    norcal (a5428a)

  110. Thanks, norcal.

    I’m sure Dana loves her (or his?) mother very much and the advice s/he gave was not only well meaning, but helped her mom make a better choice. That’s outstanding. I probably did originally take “behave” a little hard, although I did think it was meant humorously. I guess my bigger point is that people, especially the elderly with most of their years already loved, should be allowed to take risks with their own lives and/or with like-minded individuals.

    However, yes, I’m glad I mentioned it, if only to see that Dana not only had her heart in the right place, but was also helping her mom achieve her goals. I’d be a hypocrite if I didn’t respect that and want that for her mom. I want her to have the freedom to choose prudence, safety, and as long a life as possible, too.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  111. *already lived

    I’d claim it’s just a typo, but it’s probably a bit of dyslexia thrown into the mix.

    loved AND lived it is! Hopefully I’m wrong, though, and she has another 90 great years in her. 100+ is not out of line.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  112. Add this to the collecting habit, JVW. . .

    It’s not going to surprise anyone to learn that I was a stamp collector too. In fact, that was my dad’s real speciality. It is an amazing way to learn the history of our great country, though I agree with you, DCSCA, that things seem to have become worse ever since they went to the sticky stamp and they no longer do many stamps in odd denominations.

    JVW (54fd0b)

  113. All the above and:

    Patriot (Netflix)
    Black Mirror (Netflix)
    The Man in the High Castle (Amazon Prime)
    Electric Deams (Amazon Prime)

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  114. This is the nutter story de jure from the darkest basement of the alt-right fever dreamers.

    Indeed. It is also a Chinese meme they are trying to push.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  115. Designated Survivor was excellent for about 10 minutes, then sucked.

    The writers also knew nothing about politics or civics. The West Wing may have been leftie, but the writers always understood how things work (in the same way that Trump does not).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  116. I just don’t respect the idea that adults with great years and experience in life can’t make their own informed choices

    Right up to the point where they can no longer tap those years and experience, nor make any informed choices. It happens, and sometimes it happens fast.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  117. Yes, Kevin. However, I think their living will and advanced medical directive should be respected.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  118. The White House is reporting that Trump tested negative for the Wuhan virus.
    Yes, I called it the Wuhan virus.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  119. Well we could experiment with a community of young adults desperate to elimate student debt …http://www.marketwatch.com/story/its-going-to-be-daunting-uk-considers-opposite-approach-to-the-uss-by-allowing-more-people-to-contract-coronavirus-2020-03-14

    urbanleftbehind (9998d9)

  120. Woohan or Woughan this weekend provided the whiskey is flowing.

    urbanleftbehind (9998d9)

  121. Yes, Kevin. However, I think their living will and advanced medical directive should be respected.

    Definitely. I had my mother’s PoA for the last 10 years of her life, and I made damn sure she was in a safe place, and one should could enjoy as long as she could enjoy anything. But I probably would have ignored a skydiving directive.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  122. Shonda Rhimes didnt make Designated Survivor, but it bears that familiar mark of a network that hosted its first 2 seasons.

    urbanleftbehind (9998d9)

  123. urbanleftbehind (9998d9) — 3/14/2020 @ 6:30 pm

    I’ve been told this idea has been rejected, for several reasons. Not the least of which is that the childhood-disease model doesn’t work when the parents and grandparents are more susceptible and in greater danger.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  124. Yes, I called it the Wuhan virus.

    Wuhan-19 to avoid later confusion.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  125. MAOA, do they get “freaky” in those K-series? Since many might be taking in an elevated amount of that kind of programming – K-perin highly recommended.

    urbanleftbehind (9998d9)

  126. Narciso had his suspicions about Gillum, in one 2018 post referring to him as a bottom boy.

    urbanleftbehind (9998d9)

  127. mr president trumps genetically superior genes will smack the taste out of any dirty chineser cooties mouth

    kind of like he did to lyin ted, crooked hillary and harvardtrash mitt romney

    Dave (1bb933)

  128. I interact with the public on a day to day basis as part of my job. If I’m going to get sick, I’ll get sick. Can’t hide from it. So I’ll live life relatively normally. I am debating going to the gym my usual 4-5 days a week. I still have a trip to visit family scheduled for late next month. Haven’t cancelled it yet.

    Anyone see that Pelosi tried to tie funding to Molech to the Coronavirus bill? What is wrong with these people and why would anyone give them more power?

    NJRob (4d595c)

  129. 12: the incomparable Lewis Fresh Produce

    Hold on there. I shop at a market where I’ve counted 32 or more different varieties of apples at once (not including different sizes & price points, different growers, pesticide-free, organic), eight kinds of eggplant, three kinds of kumquat, multiple kinds of carrots, pink lemons, green garlic, chocolate persimmons, fresh Barhi dates on the stem, green almonds, raw peanuts, several options for strawberries or raspberries in season (or out), and some weird things I’ll never buy. It probably stacks up pretty well against Lewis Fresh Produce.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  130. JVW,

    One of my best friends is an avid baseball card collector, so much so that I swear he plows virtually all of his spare money into it. He probably has hundreds of thousands of cards, enough to fill boxes stacked to the ceiling, and I don’t mean just one stack, either.

    He started collecting these cards as a boy, in what I believe was a way to mentally escape a dysfunctional family. Unfortunately, it has become a lifelong obsession. He’s now 58, and almost always broke. I think it was this card hobby, and/or the inability to manage his money (which may very well have stemmed from splurging on cards), that was a major factor in all three of his divorces. He has been banned from eBay numerous times, but has always found a way around it. It used to involve little black books with hundreds of usernames and passwords, along with a personal 1-800 number.

    My friend is a staunch Republican, but voted for Jerry Brown over Meg Whitman. I think it was because he was pissed at eBay (which Whitman ran).

    In my opinion, his is a pernicious hobby. For one thing, he’s often worried about how he’s going to pay his rent. For another, it is a very isolating hobby. Unlike painting, or reading, or other hobbies that you can share with people, baseball cards are only enjoyed by a select few. I like looking at coins and stamps, even though I don’t collect them, but I’m not interested in looking at baseball cards.

    norcal (a5428a)

  131. Shows to binge on

    Brockmire: Great dialog. Crude, disgusting, in a charming way. Story of an Baseball play by play guy, addict, spiraling into insanity. Laugh out loud funny. Give a try

    LetterKenny: Canadian sitcom. Farmers, vs the skids, vs the hockey jocks. They speak Canadian. Fast, with a thick accent, so you have to pay attention.

    Corner Gas: Another Canadian offering. Lots of non-sequitur, good writing.

    Heartland: Canadian. Women suffering the trials and tribulations on a Saskatchewan horse farm. Good storyline, safe for the entire family.

    Iowan2 (bbb95d)

  132. Kevin M,

    Let’s talk Endeavor, which is on my top three favorite series. I loved the time period, and the the evolution of Endeavor’s character. However, I was sorely disappointed by how the writers handled Fred Thursday’s relationship with his wife, and subsequent relationship between Endeavor and Thursday’s daughter. It was jarring and didn’t feel like an “organic” transition. When they moved into the mid-60’s, everything sadly changed. What’s your take?

    Dana (4fb37f)

  133. Along the lines of Heartland, Virgin River is pretty good, but I’m only on Episode 5, Season 1.

    Paul Montagu (d6528e)

  134. This is the nutter story de jure from the darkest basement of the alt-right fever dreamers.

    It actually came from a newer Russian botnet on Facebook targeted at the Alt-Right crowd, having barely functioning brains, they’ve been running with it.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  135. …I thought I was deposited a couple states too south, on that note

    Kim Convenience (no… that one’s tame). Canadian sitcoms about a Korean family who runs a convenience store.

    Frontier, pre-Aquaman Jason Momoa about a fur trader along Hudsons Bay and the intercone battles between the British Army, indian tribes, coers de boies, the established Hudson Bay company and the Montreal based upstarts NorthWest company

    urbanleftbehind (9998d9)

  136. “ I just don’t respect the idea that adults with great years and experience in life can’t make their own informed choices”

    Anyone who has ever had the talk with a parent about the need (or rather absolute necessity) of immediately hanging up the car keys, no longer going on the roof, no longer even stepping on a ladder etc. knows different.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  137. “ His nickname in China was “The Cannon,” and Ren Zhiqiang’s latest commentary was among his most explosive yet.

    Mr. Ren, an outspoken property tycoon in Beijing, wrote in a scathing essay that China’s leader, Xi Jinping, was a power-hungry “clown.” He said the ruling Communist Party’s strict limits on free speech had exacerbated the coronavirus epidemic.

    Now Mr. Ren, one of the most prominent critics of Mr. Xi in mainland China, is missing, his friends said on Saturday.

    His disappearance comes amid a far-reaching campaign by the party to quash criticism of its slow, secretive initial response to the epidemic, which has killed over 3,100 people in China and sickened more than 80,000.”

    Chinese Tycoon Who Criticized Xi’s Response to Coronavirus Has Vanished

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/14/world/asia/china-ren-zhiqiang.html#click=https://t.co/A72RibZVw8
    __ _

    harkin (b64479)

  138. Endeavor…

    One of the most exquisitely written series ever in its first seasons, and not bad at all later. It can be hard at times in terms of subject matter, but it also features some of the best acting anywhere, IMNHO.

    Case Histories the same. Beautiful, funny, sad.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  139. Oh, and I found Brisco County, Jr. on Amazon (IIRC).

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  140. After procrastinating for a few days due to the horror stories, I finally went to the local Ralph’s tonight to buy some “emergency” food.

    My Ralph’s is normally open from 6am – midnight. It was 7:45 when I arrived, and a guy at the door informed me they were closing in less than 20 minutes. They are now open 8 – 8. So I had to rush and grab what seemed most essential quickly.

    Fresh fruit, bottled water, bread and canned goods appeared to be completely sold out. Microwave dinners were what I decided to focus on, though, and while many items were nearly sold out, there was enough stock to grab a decent assortment of stuff I like. What I bought would last me more than a week, and probably closer to two.

    Since they were closing, I didn’t even bother going to check the (almost surely sold out) paper and/or hygienic goods.

    On the positive side, there was no line at the checkout…

    Dave (1bb933)

  141. I went shopping this past Monday evening. All the shelves were jam-backed.

    Then the next day the f-word orange went on TV and talked about the coronavirus.

    The next day, there was panic buying in the super-market, and all the shelves emptied. There was panic-selling in the stock market, the biggest loss since 1987.

    The market bounced back yesterday and the f-word orange is bragging about the “biggest stock market rise in history”, when it’s still like 6,000 point below what it was a month ago. I’ll see how the super-market is tomorrow.

    F-word orange, f-word orange, f-word orange!

    Not a wartime President? He is not a President at all!

    nk (1d9030)

  142. Here’s how much Europe’s royal families really cost

    We could upgrade for a fraction of what Trump’s golfing trips set us back…

    Dave (1bb933)

  143. Anyone see that Pelosi tried to tie funding to Molech to the Coronavirus bill? What is wrong with these people and why would anyone give them more power?

    I’ve tried to research this, and it looks like a half-truth fabricated in the White House and planted in the media to keep the base agitated. And clearly it worked (I even received a breathless email about it from some EverTrump spam bot).

    The original “exclusive” story is here:

    EXCLUSIVE: White House Officials Allege Speaker Pelosi Pushed To Include Hyde Amendment Loophole Into Coronavirus Stimulus Plan

    Here’s what it actually consists of:

    House Speaker Nancy Pelosi sought to include a potential way to guarantee federal funding for abortion into the coronavirus economic stimulus plan, according to multiple senior White House officials.

    Speaking to the Daily Caller, those officials alleged that while negotiating the stimulus with U.S. Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, Pelosi tried to lobby for “several” provisions that stalled bipartisan commitment to the effort. One was a mandate for up to $1 billion to reimburse laboratory claims, which White House officials say would set a precedent of health spending without protections outlined in the Hyde Amendment.

    So it has nothing to do with actually funding abortion; rather, it would “set a precedent” of health spending without being subject to the Hyde Amendment. That seems like a long way from the hysterical narrative TrumpWorld is trying to push on its credulous followers.

    Some sites have also characterized this as Pelosi trying to “sneak abortion funding” into the stimulus bill, but even the anonymous White House allegation makes clear that this was simply one of the Democrats’ initial negotiating positions, and done quite openly. Which hardly seems surprising – the Democrats oppose the Hyde Amendment, so why would they write it into their own proposals? As the negotiations got down to cases, it was dropped without fanfare.

    It seems like a tip-off to me that nobody at the WH would go on the record with this allegation.

    Dave (1bb933)

  144. What’s your take?

    I think that Morse’s life is spinning out of control (season 7 makes that very clear), and he’s getting very frustrated with how things are turning out and pushing people away. I thought that Thursday’s daughter’s sudden change in attitudes WAS jarring, and was unclear about why. I understood why Mrs Thursday was so righteously pissed off when he failed to retire as planned, but I wonder if Thursday was all that interested in retiring.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  145. Oh, and I found Brisco County, Jr. on Amazon (IIRC).

    Tried watching that, but it really seems to need pot and I’m sober.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  146. Dave–

    Kroger stores (e.g. Ralph’s) are closing early due to the restocking needed. Locusts.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  147. Absolutely paranoid conspiracy theory:

    Path 1:
    1. The virus is a weaponized coronavirus.
    2. It escaped from the lab by accident.
    3. It was designed to be far more dangerous to Caucasians in some way.
    4. Some Chinese died, but not nearly as many as one would expect. Even after pretending it wasn’t happening for two months, they will still have a death toll less than Italy’s when all is said and done.

    Path 2:
    1. The virus is a weaponized coronavirus.
    2. An attenuated version was released in China, as a cover.
    3. The real nasty version was intentionally disbursed somewhat later in several cities (Milan, Seatle, Tehran).
    4. This was done as economic warfare, expecting that the West would be hurt far worse.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  148. The most likely true conspiracy theory:

    1. Despite Putin’s best efforts, Russia’s economy is still lagging far behind China’s and the West’s, with no hope of ever catching up.
    2. The only thing to do was to cripple the competition, namely China and the West.
    3. Putin’s first attempt, to have his agent in the White House, namely Donald Trump, start a trade war between the United States, China, and the EU, did not succeed, at least not sufficiently.
    4. Therefore, Putin invoked the Wuhan Option.
    5. If you can’t bring yourself up, bring the others down.

    Toilet paper shortages! For crying out loud! If that’s not Soviet Union, I don’t know what it is.

    nk (1d9030)

  149. My best guess at this point is that there are either some super spreaders or some super spreading conditions. In Italy, it wasn’t in Milan, but on the ski slopes, that it started.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  150. Kroger stores (e.g. Ralph’s) are closing early due to the restocking needed.

    Great, so NOW you tell me.

    Locusts.

    I found sanitizing wipes, paper hand towels and hand/face towelettes all in stock and reasonably priced on the Staples web site. Free delivery on Tuesday, too.

    Will be interesting to see whether they actually come through with the goods…

    Dave (1bb933)

  151. https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-world-descended-on-mar-a-lago-as-it-became-a-coronavirus-petri-dish?source=articles&via=rss

    The thug in the Oval Office has a bubble, and reality rarely penetrates. But maybe the bubble has become a viral cess-pool.

    Interesting…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  152. I’ve tried to research this, and it looks like a half-truth fabricated in the White House and planted in the media to keep the base agitated.

    I’m sad to see that Ben Sasse is part of the echo-chamber.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  153. “Interesting read.”
    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/15/2020 @ 7:20 am

    Was this the most interesting part?

    Rightly or wrongly, the Chinese state’s heavy-handed approach seemed to work.
    In contrast, individual liberty is the engine that drives American exceptionalism. There are certainly valid questions about how much of it to sacrifice in the name of the public good, but our laissez-faire attitude, prioritization of personal freedom and utter lack of government leadership have left Americans confused and exposed.

    Here’s what I found most interesting;
    Nowhere does the author mention where the virus originated, or how China’s heavy-handed approach and suppression of dissent got us here. No mention of those who raised flags early, but were silenced.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  154. It’s for these reasons that taking a vaccine candidate all the way to regulatory approval typically takes a decade or more, and why President Trump sowed confusion when, at a meeting at the White House on 2 March, he pressed for a vaccine to be ready by the US elections in November – an impossible deadline. “Like most vaccinologists, I don’t think this vaccine will be ready before 18 months,” says Annelies Wilder-Smith, professor of emerging infectious diseases at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. That’s already extremely fast, and it assumes there will be no hitches.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/when-will-a-coronavirus-vaccine-be-ready-human-trials-global-immunisation

    Fauci face-plants…

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  155. Here’s what I found most interesting;
    Nowhere does the author mention where the virus originated, or how China’s heavy-handed approach and suppression of dissent got us here. No mention of those who raised flags early, but were silenced.

    I suppose the author wasn’t writing for you.

    Nor was the author any kind of expert on virology, politics, or much of anything outside his own experience. If you read the piece in that light, it is interesting. If not satisfying to you personally.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  156. Pelosi tried to sneak abortion funding into the bill to treat the Wuhan Virus. She pushed further until she was forced to accept it would be a nightmare of a P.R. move. Disciples of Molech.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  157. https://victorygirlsblog.com/nancy-tried-sneak-abortion-funding-covid-bill/

    Ladies who can connect the dots and don’t try to run interference for the left. Calling out Media Matters talking points one sentence at a time.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  158. “Nor was the author any kind of expert on virology, politics, or much of anything outside his own experience.”
    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/15/2020 @ 8:32 am

    Because you need to be an expert on virology and politics to know where it originated and how dissent is handled in China. LOL

    But nice to know the author’s prescription. Be more like China.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  159. But nice to know the author’s prescription. Be more like China.

    If you read “…rightly or wrongly…” to be advocacy for the Chinese way, you DO have the brains of a typical T-rump cultist.

    But normal people may find the article interesting.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  160. My best guess at this point is that there are either some super spreaders or some super spreading conditions. In Italy, it wasn’t in Milan, but on the ski slopes, that it started.

    Italy employs many, many Chinese immigrants and workers in its fashion industry, in northern Italy, producing goods. I can’t send links, but google “The Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Tuscany” for one article about this, published in The New Yorker on April 9, 2018.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  161. Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/15/2020 @ 8:53 am

    The full sentence, which I guess you didn’t like at face value.

    Rightly or wrongly, the Chinese state’s heavy-handed approach seemed to work.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  162. The full sentence, which I guess you didn’t like at face value.

    Well, sure I like the sentence at face value. Only a real nutter COULD take exception to such a bald statement of FACT.

    Authoritarianism WORKS. That’s one reason your Great Goad Cheeto is a fan.

    Since the Enlightenment, there has been tension between liberty and security. Just like today. There are valid arguments on both sides. I tend to favor liberty, myself.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  163. My best guess at this point is that there are either some super spreaders or some super spreading conditions. In Italy, it wasn’t in Milan, but on the ski slopes, that it started.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/15/2020 @ 9:01 am

    Italy employs many, many Chinese immigrants and workers in its fashion industry, in northern Italy, producing goods. I can’t send links, but google “The Chinese Workers Who Assemble Designer Bags in Tuscany” for one article about this, published in The New Yorker on April 9, 2018.

    It;s more likely a Chinese business person – someone who just traveled from China, and went to ski slopes, where – something was different.

    They;re using a 6 feet radius as a guide and that’s probably wrong. To start with, it probably is a curve with a long, fat tail.

    And it is probably a lot worse (further away from the infected person) in any place with a ventilating system that recirculates the air without heating it up, like a cruise ship (?) or an airplane.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  164. It;s more likely a Chinese business person – someone who just traveled from China, and went to ski slopes, where – something was different.

    The workers go back and forth.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  165. There’s a lot of people who traveled on airplanes that seem to test positive – way above average. Basketball players, reporters, political figures.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  166. The workers go back and forth

    Some of them, what,m came back right after the Chinese Lunar New Year? The airfare should be enormously expensive for an ordinary Chinese. No low paid worker is going to take a two week trip back to China.

    Now maybe they get replaced just at this time.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  167. “Authoritarianism WORKS. That’s one reason your Great Goad Cheeto is a fan.”
    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/15/2020 @ 9:12 am

    Yes, which is exactly why you linked to a polemic excoriating Trump for being laissez-faire and not being enough like China.

    Do you even read you own comments?

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  168. My impression about contagiousness is, is that it is somewhat like this:

    It is transmitted by getting the virus out of the body, so you must cough or sneeze – although speaking and breathing can do this also they say.

    Then the virus has to get back into somebody’s lungs without getting destroyed. It can survive for a long time at 48 degrees Fahrenheit. Not so much at, say, 70 degrees.

    When it gets near body temperature its protective coating disappears and it has very little time to infect a cell. Maybe it might also be protected by something in mucus or else it never should survive till it gets out of the body.

    Soap destroys the protective layer by dissolving it, so 20 seconds washing, which nobody will do anyway, shouldn’t be necessary, but just dipping your hands for three seconds or less in liquid soap or detergent should be enough.

    But they’re treating this like it was staph.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  169. *your

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  170. @159 and 160. That’s nonsense and the article you linked isn’t even good speculation, it’s just paranoid fever hallucinations. You might as well say that an infrastructure bill provides abortion funding because it includes repaving the streets in a city that has a planned parenthood clinic.

    Nic (896fdf)

  171. Yes, which is exactly why you linked to a polemic excoriating Trump for being laissez-faire and not being enough like China.

    Well, as I said, if you read that piece as being that, you viewed it through the eyes of a shor-nuff’ cultist.

    BTW, nooooobdy critiqued Duh Donald for being too “laissez-faire”. He’s being rightly critiqued for being a self-centered moron on several levels. He’s being rightly deplored for being the Queen Of Denial for months and even today.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  172. “Soap destroys the protective layer by dissolving it, so 20 seconds washing, which nobody will do anyway, shouldn’t be necessary”
    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1) — 3/15/2020 @ 9:25 am

    The dearth of public restrooms, not to mention clean ones, in Italy probably hasn’t helped the situation there.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  173. I think they are both exercising an abundance of caution where they should not, and ignoring dangers where they should. Contagiousness is not limited to a 6 feet radius! And this is exponentially worse in any place that recirculates air, like an airplane.

    On the other hand, hands are probably not a big problem, and 20 seconds with soap definitely not needed – that’s for microbes like Staphyloccus aureus (staph) or maybe Clostridium difficile which live on akin, but can cause a serious problem if it gets into a wound, in a hospital setting. None of this should apply to a cold or flu virus.

    I think they cannot make one mistake alone. Making one error requires making the other. They have to assume contagiousness where it is not, in order to assume non-contagiousness where it is. They have to extend the contagious period in time because they have shrunk it in space, and ignored magnifying factors (in space) And the latter also results in ignoring minimizing factors, like room temperature. And the hands may be mostly a scapegoat.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  174. 175. They don’t leave standing bowls of soapy water around bathrooms or anywhere in Italy or any other place. (and then rinse it off adnd don;t dry with anything reusable.

    Clorox bleach would work, too, as in Liberia with ebola, where during the epidemic there were bowls of Clorox outside every doorway, but I don;t think it’s healthy to breathe in.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  175. @159 and 160. That’s nonsense and the article you linked isn’t even good speculation, it’s just paranoid fever hallucinations. You might as well say that an infrastructure bill provides abortion funding because it includes repaving the streets in a city that has a planned parenthood clinic.

    Nic (896fdf) — 3/15/2020 @ 9:27 am

    Ignoring your insults, it’s clearly not since we’ve had enough congressmen speaking out against it and Pelosi was forced to pull it. But I understand you support the vision, so you’ll continue to pretend it isn’t the goal.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  176. The emergency coronovirus bill is being negotiated by Treasury Secretary Mnuchin. Trump’s not paying much attention to the details. On Friday he prepared a tweet saying he would sign the bill, but Mnuchin prevailed up him to delay sending that tweet until there was an agreement on what was going to be in it.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  177. ‘BTW, nooooobdy critiqued Duh Donald for being too “laissez-faire”.‘
    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/15/2020 @ 9:36 am

    Maybe you should actually read the articles you link to.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  178. Also pssitive: Two New York State Assembly members from New York City. (on average the number testing positive has to be way below 1 in 150)

    Again, I think the risk factor could be airplane travel. That’ll expose everybody aboard the same plane. Maybe.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  179. @165

    Authoritarianism WORKS.

    This depends on what you mean by works. China’s first response was to deny and suppress. In case you missed it that didn’t work. After that they continued to lie and suppress information. Anyone who says they’ve got any valid data about the impact of this virus in China is mistaken. I’m not sure even Chinese officials have good numbers. So, anyone at this point saying what the Chinese have done worked is also mistaken.

    On the other hand, if by works you mean they control the news and can claim whatever they want, then yes, it works great for that.

    frosty (f27e97)

  180. Maybe you should actually read the articles you link to.

    Maybe you shouldn’t just lie about the content of stuff.

    Why don’t you point to where the author slams your cult leader for being too “laissez-faire”.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  181. This depends on what you mean by works.

    So, just to be clear, besides what you name, there were no other effects of Chinese authoritarian rule in the response to CV19?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  182. ‘Why don’t you point to where the author slams your cult leader for being too “laissez-faire”.’
    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/15/2020 @ 10:01 am

    For that, you don’t even need to read the article. Just read my @156 where I’ve done all the work for you in advance.

    Mr. Pierre, you are quite literally on a roll.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  183. In contrast, individual liberty is the engine that drives American exceptionalism. There are certainly valid questions about how much of it to sacrifice in the name of the public good, but our laissez-faire attitude, prioritization of personal freedom and utter lack of government leadership have left Americans confused and exposed.

    Not just a cultist, but a liar, too. Or perhaps you can’t read English?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  184. Mr. Pierre, you are quite literally on a roll.

    So I’m on a baked good of some kind? Because “literally” has a meaning. In English.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  185. @178 I am forced to believe that you did not read the quote they were using to justify their paranoid hallucination. The quote says that bill included reimbursing labs for corona virus testing. Yes, yes, that clearly indicated an attempt to fund abortion. OH LOOK!! AN ABORTION IS HIDING BEHIND THAT TREE!! IT’S GOING TO SNEAK UP AND STEAL YOUR WALLET!! WATCH OUT!! EVERYTHING IS ABORTION!! IT’S GOING TO GET ON YOUR HANDS!! DON’T WALK ON THE FLOOR, THE FLOOR IS ABORTION!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!

    Nic (896fdf)

  186. “Not just a cultist, but a liar, too. Or perhaps you can’t read English?”
    Ragspierre (d9bec9) — 3/15/2020 @ 10:09 am

    LOL

    Looks like whatever credibility capital you had just got squandered on meth in a motel room with that Gillum dude.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  187. Looks like whatever credibility capital you had just got squandered on meth in a motel room with that Gillum dude.

    Certainly true of one of us. People who can read will know which. I’ll happily leave it with them.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  188. There are people here who have little credibility as they always defend Trump, no matter what.
    There are people here who have little credibility as they always attack Trump, no matter what.

    At least happyfeet had a sense of humor.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  189. Trump’s not paying much attention to the details.

    Just this once.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  190. The dearth of public restrooms, not to mention clean ones, in Italy probably hasn’t helped the situation there.

    Even clean ones. So you wash and wash and wash, then you grab the door handle to leave.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  191. Not just a cultist, but a liar, too. Or perhaps you can’t read English?

    I’m throwing a flag here. Not 1, not 2, but 3 ad hominums in 14 words.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  192. Not 1, not 2, but 3 ad hominums

    He does this a lot. It’s his main modus operandi. That and juvenile name-calling.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  193. Question: Why aren’t cities making deals with soon-to-be-empty hotels and motels for quarantine housing? Knowing government, they’ll probably bail them out anyway, but not get any use out of them.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  194. Ragspierre @157 quoting:

    “Like most vaccinologists, I don’t think this vaccine will be ready before 18 months,” says Annelies Wilder-Smith, professor of emerging infectious diseases at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. That’s already extremely fast, and it assumes there will be no hitches.

    How long did it take to develop the swine flu vaccine in 1976? Something is very wrong with the drug and medical device approval process. They had to specially waive it to permit Covid-19 tests that people really knew worked.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  195. Quarentine housing is actually a bad idea. People would need to be isolated separately, not isolated together.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  196. Quarentine housing is actually a bad idea. People would need to be isolated separately, not isolated together.

    Could they not be in individual units for those who are merely exposed?

    Also, what about collective units for those who have tested positive?

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  197. There are 3 or 4 things that could be done to treat this:

    1) Dialysis to filter out the virus from the bloodstream. It doesn’t mainly live there but can do something. Principle was proven in Germany with ebola. Drawback: Probably expensive, and of course, the old bugaboo, unproven.

    2) Treatment with antibodies from recovered patients: Drawbacks: Possible infection with other diseases, although this might be mitigated, and recovered person will have limited immunity.

    3) Treatment with the anti-HIV protease inhibitor antiviral drugs lopinavir and ritonavir – and by the way this would probably work better as a preventtive – which is marketed in the United States as Kaletra) by the Illinois-based pharma company AbbVie.

    This previously had been shown to be successful in Saudi Arabia against MERS. It’s now being used in China, and in Hong Kong against Covid-19 (and in Hong Kong along with immune boosting drugs) China’s National Health Commission recommends it.

    Of course we’ve got to have double blind clinical trials, and then, eventually, pay through the nose for it.

    That is not the way to go, but you won’t see the pharmaceutical company recommending that steps be skipped and a low price negotiated – all they’ll do is donate $1.5 million worth of Kaletra (at going prices) for a clinical trial being done in China – a clinical trial which is actually probably unethical to do because they know it works.

    We need someone with the courage to say: This is a war; in a war you act on the basis of incomplete information; this is nonsense up with which we shall not put.

    Drawback: I would guess possible liver and kidney problems, maybe the creation of drug resistant HIV

    Another thing marketed (using to other anti-HIV drugs, are the antivirals emtricitabine and tenofovir disoproxil fumarate) sold as DESCOVY.

    Anyway, this general idea works – there’s no reasonable doubt about it:

    https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma-asia/china-repurposes-abbvie-hiv-dug-as-big-pharma-rallies-to-help-combat-deadly-coronavirus

    Wang Guangfa, the leader of Peking University First Hospital’s pulmonary and critical care medicine department, contracted the virus as a member of a national expert team dispatched to Wuhan. Kaletra killed his disease, Wang told state-run China News Service in a report (Chinese) on Thursday. [Jan. 24]

    The government of China is not trying to promote this treatment. If anything, they’re trying to hide it.

    The cost for Kaletra oral liquid (400 mg-100 mg/5 mL) is around $544 for a supply of 160 milliliters. A generic price for the most common version of generic Kaletra costs around $163.22.

    I don’t know for how many days that amount would good for, or worthwhile.

    This is for cash paying customers, but insurance probably won’t pay for this unless Congress mandates it and Congress won’t unless they believe in it and disregard standard medical rules.

    Like with tamiflu, this probably works better if started at the beginning of the disease, not at the end, and would also prevent lung damage. And would work as a prophylactic.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  198. Let nobody say there’s no treatment, cure or drug to prevent this. It’s that any possible treatment is mired in red tape that nobody in the system has any incentive to complain about, and quite an incentive not to.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  199. Chloroquine can be used.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  200. 199. Make America Ordered Again (23f793) — 3/15/2020 @ 10:56 am

    Could they not be in individual units for those who are merely exposed?

    Yes but they’re probably better off in their own homes. New York City has stpped evictions from public housing.

    Also, what about collective units for those who have tested positive?

    That’s a fallacy. This probably greatly raised the death rate in China. I think it matters how many virus particles a person is dealing with. Anything coughed out has to be gotten rid of, and the patient not exposed to what;s released by other patients,

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  201. Has anyone said Chloroquine can be used? The anti-HIV antivirals can be used because they are not at all specific to HIV – they are good against any RNA a virus. Only the price, and the fact that there are mostly satisfactory (maybe not – people die from the flu) treatment for other diseases prevents them from being used against other things.

    Is malaria similar?

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  202. I’ve heard from a few sources, yes.

    The export of the US-based AbbVie’s Kaletra / Aluvia, a combination lopinavir and ritonavir, the generic drug chloroquine phosphate and the generic drug hydroxychloroquine is being restricted to meet the needs of UK patients, the government said.

    Hydroxychloroquine was placed on the restricted list from 14 March and Kaletra and chloroquine phosphate were added on 26 February.

    The three drugs are marketed for other indications but are being administered to Covid-19 patients in clinical trials in China.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  203. Nic (896fdf) — 3/15/2020 @ 10:13 am

    Your lack of respect for the most defenseless amongst us is duly noted. The left first sacrament is to their death cult. As Cuomo and other leaders of the left has said, the right to life is not welcome.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  204. https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/03/israelis_moving_quickly_to_get_out_a_covid19_vaccine.html

    On the other end of the spectrum, Israel continues to work to synthesize a vaccine for this version of a coronavirus. They are going to begin testing soon and Israel’s approval process is much faster than our own.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  205. I’m throwing a flag here. Not 1, not 2, but 3 ad hominums in 14 words.

    Before you can “throw” anything, Kevin, you should really learn what terms mean. Otherwise you look like a fool. (See, that’s NOT “ad hominem”.)

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  206. @159 and 160. That’s nonsense and the article you linked isn’t even good speculation, it’s just paranoid fever hallucinations. You might as well say that an infrastructure bill provides abortion funding because it includes repaving the streets in a city that has a planned parenthood clinic.

    I read a detailed debunking of NJRob’s claim, explaining that there was NO direct abortion funding in the Dem request, but only the possibility that a door might be opened sometime in the future. And that it was all done in the open, not sneakily.

    Note that the people accusing Dems of trying to make a pandemic response contingent on abortion funding (because they care more about killing babies than saving lives!) are the same people who insist that Trump’s firing of the pandemic response team had no bearing on the response to a pandemic. Because they seem to be more concerned about protecting the image of Donald Trump than anything else.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  207. @206 If you want to see abortion under every rock, that’s on you, but it isn’t under every rock.

    Nic (896fdf)

  208. Could they not be in individual units for those who are merely exposed?

    Hotel rooms are just about the best non-hospital “individual units” you can find. Since hotels also have kitchens, people can be fed by room service. Some protocols are needed there, but it’s not rocket science.

    Does this cost money? You betcha. But money isn’t really an issue. After we sue China for $11 trillion in actual and punitive damages, and take it out of their bond holdings, we’ll be ahead of the game.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  209. @209 Pretty much. Sigh.

    Nic (896fdf)

  210. Before you can “throw” anything, Kevin, you should really learn what terms mean.

    You really should check definitions before you correct people. We’ve been through this before, but you still haven’t learned. “Ad hominum” means trying to win an argument by attacking the person.

    Not just a cultist, but a liar, too. Or perhaps you can’t read English? does that three times.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  211. Aerodromes clogged w/arrivals.

    WTF- why testing kits were not prioritized and added to the flight manifests of all transatlantic carriers so passengers- which would clearly be smaller groups of people to manage- aren’t tested during a six-plus hour flight so the kits could be processed by labs upon arrival is odd.

    There are plenty of idle military bases w/runways capable of managing aircraft arrivals to ease congestion as well particularly along the Eastern seaboard near major cities as well. Empty a few hangers- set up a few laptop stations for customs, additional screening and baggage handling– then bus ’em to ground transportation.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  212. Although it appears I misspelled “ad hominem”. Oh well, dead language and all.

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/ad-hominem

    Ad hominen:

    (1) appealing to one’s prejudices, emotions, or special interests rather than to one’s intellect or reason.
    (2) attacking an opponent’s character rather than answering his argument.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  213. The government limited international arrivals to 13 airports with only 2 days notice. Then passengers accelerated and rescheduled their travel plans to get here while they still can, in case the rules change again, so those 13 airports got a double or triple dose of arrivals. Still, lines are now back to normal at DFW. I have family that travel internationally and have sometimes stood in Customs lines for hours on normal days. When disruptions happen, that can happen.

    DRJ (15874d)

  214. And I don’t think there are any testing kits at these airports. Just medical screening, e.g., Note where they traveled, take their temperatures, observe for coughing, ask questions.

    DRJ (15874d)

  215. Ragspiere does that all the time, then lies (yes, lies) that he isn’t engaged in ad hominem attacks and sidestepping the actual argument.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  216. “Ad hominum” means trying to win an argument by attacking the person.

    No. As it’s used most often, it refers to a common fallacy. But it does not strictly have to be fallacious.

    When I refer to Duh Donald or Obama as being liars, that is not any fallacy. When I observed that Monrew was a liar it was based on the obvious demonstrated truth, the only alternative being he cannot read English.

    You would be wise to stick to playing instant expert on CV19 and leave monitoring the thread to those whose business that is.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  217. The government limited international arrivals to 13 airports with only 2 days notice.

    So? The government ordered every domestic plane literally in flight to land within hours on 9/11 and restricted flights for a time there after. Civilian aircraft can land at military airfields. The WHO testing kits were rebuffed by U.S. officials early on, too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  218. Note that the people accusing Dems of trying to make a pandemic response contingent on abortion funding (because they care more about killing babies than saving lives!) are the same people who insist that Trump’s firing of the pandemic response team had no bearing on the response to a pandemic. Because they seem to be more concerned about protecting the image of Donald Trump than anything else.

    Radegunda (39c35f) — 3/15/2020 @ 11:33 am

    Government agencies are self perpetuating and have nothing to do with the names of their agencies. A limited government conservative would understand that

    NJRob (1d3b14)

  219. Ragspiere does that all the time, then lies (yes, lies) that he isn’t engaged in ad hominem attacks and sidestepping the actual argument.

    That’s a lie, and you’re a liar. But you’re known for it.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  220. You would be wise to stick to playing instant expert on CV19 and leave monitoring the thread to those whose business that is.

    You’re favored because you agree with the editorial stance of the blog. You know this and are thus being disengenuous. Everything you say is self-serving.

    None of us could get away with your continuous ad homimems and name-calling here.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  221. None of us could get away with your continuous ad homimems and name-calling here.

    You just did.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  222. The WHO testing kits were rebuffed by U.S. officials early on, too.

    The United States was doing everything it could to avoid early coronavirus testing on American soil. Beyond what you said, the team in WA state had to defy repeated denials of permission to test by the feds in order to break the fact there was a cluster of cases, including lethal ones, in Washington.

    The government needed to delay testing as long and as much as possible to cover up their error (and other cover-up methods).

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  223. There’s an apparent ‘vaccine’ already on hand and for the coronavirus: moonshine

    West Virginia was the only U.S. state left without any confirmed cases of COVID-19 coronavirus as of March 13, 2020. – source, newsweek.com

    Be ‘still’…

    “I’ve got that Wheeling feeling!” – W.Va TV/Radio jingle

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  224. 188. Nic (896fdf) — 3/15/2020 @ 10:13 am

    ! EVERYTHING IS ABORTION!! IT’S GOING TO GET ON YOUR HANDS!! DON’T WALK ON THE FLOOR, THE FLOOR IS ABORTION!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!!

    Maybe the problem is, that absent an explicit prohibition, next year, President Biden could issue an declaration of emergency diverting the unspent money to fund Planned Parenthood or Medicaid abortions, just like President Trump diverted money to pay for a “wall” – but of course if that could happen, maybe the Senate won’t be Republican and money could be appropriated directly.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  225. 214. DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/15/2020 @ 11:46 am

    There are plenty of idle military bases w/runways capable of managing aircraft arrivals to ease congestion as well particularly along the Eastern seaboard near major cities as well.

    The places where I saw reported on TV that there were crowds were Chicago and Dallas. To get through Customs etc everybody had to fill out anew health form (which could have been transmitted to the plane while it was in flight, but wasn’t) and also have their temperature taken, which took about a minute per person (the temperature)

    But the real danger of transmitting disease was probably aboard plane.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  226. That’s a lie, and you’re a liar. But you’re known for it.

    Are you a child?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  227. @228. The JFK terminals were hell, Sammy. ‘Check your local listings’ as the saying goes. America has military bases w/airfields near Chicago– and even in Texas, too; the United States has occupied the treasonous Confederacy for quite some time now. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  228. Things to expect in the next week, maybe 2:

    * Air travel will be shut down nationwide and maybe worldwide.
    * The southern border will be shut by both countries
    * The northern border will be shut by both countries
    * Travel across state lines will be restricted.
    * Restaurants, bars, movie theaters and other points of congregation will be shut.
    * Some judge in Hawaii will rule this unconstitutional and issue a national injunction.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  229. Kevin, mind you own business.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  230. Travel across state lines will be restricted

    Delaware wil be “closed” like one time on Candid Camera??

    This interferes with work, and with delivery of goods.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  231. Government agencies are self perpetuating and have nothing to do with the names of their agencies. A limited government conservative would understand that

    Is that why Jared Kushner seems to be coordinating the pandemic response after the people qualified to do that and tasked with doing that were fired and not replaced?
    Do “government agencies” just keep working the same way even though the people responsible for certain key functions are no longer there? Do agencies not depend on people staffing them?

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  232. #221, of your argument is that the people at the top have nothing really to do with how an “agency” functions, then how can Trump get credit for anything done by any “agency”? He must be superfluous, and we should just let the “agencies” keep buzzing along by themselves.

    Radegunda (39c35f)

  233. https://www.carespot.com/blog/medicine-or-malarkey-does-airplane-travel-increase-your-chances-of-getting-sick

    For example, a recent flight from Saudi Arabia to New York City included 10 passengers who suddenly fell ill on board and later tested positive for influenza. How they became infected and who else they may have infected is still unknown.

    Link to Sept, 2018 article:

    https://www.livescience.com/63499-ny-plane-quarantined-passengers-sick.html

    Phillips noted that some of the passengers came from Mecca, Saudi Arabia, which is experiencing a flu outbreak….A passenger on board the flight, Larry Coben, tweeted yesterday that before getting off the plane, passengers had their temperatures taken and were asked to fill out a “Passenger Locator Information Form” by the CDC. At around 11 a.m. EDT, he tweeted, “Happy to report that I am through customs and on my way home.”

    This was noticeable because, on a very long duration flight, so many passengers got suddenly sick.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  234. @23. Well, domestic air travel was grounded after 9/11 for several days. Don’t recall if in-bound int’l flights were halted for long but may were diverted to Canada and so forth. Can see restrictions on certain interstate travel– buses and such; passenger trains may restrict numbers per car; recall CA border patrol routinely confiscated house plants an such at the border when you come in so that level of precaution seems prudent.

    No doubt the military germ warfare mavens have dusted off their defensive maps at the Pentagon as a touchstone to manage this in various sections of the country. Restaurants and bars will follow the state guidelines from their governors and ignore Trump.

    ‘Some judge in Hawaii will rule this unconstitutional and issue a national injunction.’

    More likely West Virginia: se #226. 😉

    Best news of the day: JoeyBee says ‘don’t go to the polls on Tuesday and vote for me on Tuesday and risk getting sick.’

    Attaboy, Joey!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  235. 235. Radegunda (39c35f) — 3/15/2020 @ 12:59 pm

    He must be superfluous,

    The joke was, Eisenhower proved that.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  236. From that web page:

    A plane’s ventilation system is commonly thought to contribute to the spread of germs, but this is actually a myth. The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) conducted a report that found high-altitude fresh air to be nearly free of germs! HEPA filters used on aircrafts are also effective at removing fungi, bacteria, dust, and viruses.

    Maybe that needs another looking at.

    And maybe the system pushes infectious material around.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  237. So now it is reported that, after destroying his life & the life of his wonderful family (and many others also), the FBI, working in conjunction with the Justice Department, has “lost” the records of General Michael Flynn. How convenient. I am strongly considering a Full Pardon!

    Says a man who REALLY needs a diversion…!!!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  238. Of course the high altitude air is nearly free of germs! The question is the infectious material that originates aboard the airplane.

    If the filter traps it, it can’t be expelled from the plane!

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  239. If the filter traps it, it can’t be expelled from the plane!

    Likewise it can’t be circulated within the plane!

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  240. https://www.skyscanner.com.au/news/flights/why-flying-can-make-you-sick-and-how-to-stay-well

    Studies have shown that more than one in five people who travel on planes suffer from a cold or the flu after the flight. So what’s the cause of this post-flight sickness? And how can we avoid getting sick when we fly? Here is the Skyscanner Australia guide to staying healthy when flying….

    Modern planes typically use a combination of fresh and recirculated air, and some people believe that a plane’s air-conditioning system can help spread germs. But research suggests that this is not true.

    A 2013 report conducted for the Federal Aviation Administration in the US concluded that while fresh air is germ-free at high altitudes, aircraft HEPA filters effectively remove bacteria and viruses, as well as dust and fungi.

    Again, why does anyone care about fresh air from outside?

    And the HEPA filters trap them inside the plane.

    But anyway they find innumerable other reasons, even the ventilation system used when the aircraft is parked at the gate. They even suspect low relative humidity of cabin air.

    The typical relative humidity on planes is around 11 per cent. Some research suggests that low humidity interrupts the Mucociliary Clearance System, which consists of a thin layer of mucus and tiny hairs in the nose. This protective system traps viruses and bacteria and moves them from the nose to the throat, where they are swallowed and destroyed by acid in the stomach.

    Whatever it is, no one denies and everyone agrees that the chances of getting an infection while traveling on an airplane are higher than average.

    Even if they want to blame everything except the ventilation system. If the ventilation system is not to blame the same thing should be true aboard buses.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  241. 242. Maybe the filter doesn’t trap it. It just doesn’t let it get through and air currents carry them all throughout the plane.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  242. It would be better not to have a filter. At least on the air going out.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  243. Viruses survive shorter lengths of time on copper than other metals. This is one of the reasons why it and brass found widespread use. Some hospitals are using copper surfaces more, especially in ventilation units.

    It’s a thought even for airplanes. Maybe some kind of copper plating.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  244. Even mattress pads will sometimes have copper in them for microbe control.

    Make America Ordered Again (23f793)

  245. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/01/how-coronavirus-spreads-on-a-plane/

    The World Health Organization defines contact with an infected person as being seated within two rows of one another.

    But people don’t just sit during flights, particularly ones lasting longer than a few hours. They visit the bathroom, stretch their legs, and grab items from the overhead bins. In fact, during the 2003 coronavirus outbreak of the severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), a passenger aboard a flight from Hong Kong to Beijing infected people well outside the WHO’s two-row boundary. The New England Journal of Medicine noted that the WHO criteria “would have missed 45 percent of the patients with SARS.”

    This 1979 report says shutting down the ventilation is very bad.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/463858

    Am J Epidemiol. 1979 Jul;110(1):1-6.
    An outbreak of influenza aboard a commercial airliner.

    Moser MR, Bender TR, Margolis HS, Noble GR, Kendal AP, Ritter DG.
    Abstract
    A jet airliner with 54 persons aboard was delayed on the ground for three hours because of engine failure during a takeoff attempt. Most passengers stayed on the airplane during the delay. Within 72 hours, 72 per cent of the passengers became ill with symptoms of cough, fever, fatigue, headache, sore throat and myalgia. One passenger, the apparent index case, was ill on the airplane, and the clinical attack rate among the others varied with the amount of time spent aboard. Virus antigenically similar to A/Texas/1/77(H3N2) was isolated from 8 of 31 passengers cultured, and 20 of 22 ill persons tested had serologic evidence of infection with this virus. The airplane ventilation system was inoperative during the delay and this may account for the high attack rate.
    PMID: 463858 DOI: 10.1093/oxfordjournals.aje.a112781

    Now there was one obviously ill passenger on the plane.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  246. It will be interesting if, when the dust settles, the US had markedly few deaths per capita than expected. Given the level of pronouncements (possibly overstated to get people’s attention), the actual event may turn out to be anti-climactic.

    If so, is that good for Trump (“What he did was effective!”) or bad for Trump (“He scared people needlessly!”). Of course the death toll could be in the millions, which would sink Trump totally. I just wish that so many of his detractors didn’t think that would be worth the sacrifice.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  247. Maybe the filter doesn’t trap it. It just doesn’t let it get through and air currents carry them all throughout the plane.

    Sammy, they sample the effing air in the plane and find no contaminants. That is the end of the story right there.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  248. @231: Already starting. Governor closes all bars and restaurants in Ohio.

    https://www.10tv.com/article/gov-dewine-announces-closure-ohio-bars-dine-restaurants-2020-mar

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  249. I just wish that so many of his detractors didn’t think that would be worth the sacrifice.

    Name 20.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  250. March 21, 2018:

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/study-maps-how-flu-virus-moves-around-plane-180968541

    In the classic 1995 disaster flick Outbreak, an Ebola-like virus mutates and becomes airborne. In one of the most sobering scenes of the movie, the pathogen is sucked up into the ventilation system of an airplane, infecting almost everyone on board. Such scenes of plane-contracted illness are not easy to shake, leaving the creeping feeling that flying is a game of cold-and-flu Russian roulette.

    As George Dvorsky of Gizmodo reports, there has been surprisingly little research about the spread of respiratory diseases on planes, until now. A new study details just how rapidly flu spreads on commercial flights, suggesting that planes aren’t as germ-infested as many believe.

    The problem with this is that they tracked passenger movement and took samples, and made many calculations, but nobody was coughing out any new virus particles to spread.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  251. 250. Who samples it? And what explains that 1977 incident? And it is afact that, somehow, there is more disease transmission aboard airplanes. (by calcultion, a flight attendant would be the word Patient Zero)

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)


  252. Aman Batheja
    @amanbatheja
    .
    The Reuters article appears to no longer include the quote from the German Health Ministry confirming the @welt report.
    __ _

    The Partyman
    @PartymanRandy
    ·
    CNN: Trump lied about Google’s coronavirus site.

    Google: No he didn’t.

    CNN: Ah! Well. Nevertheless…
    __ _

    It’s nice to know that the media can carry on regardless…..
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  253. Name 20.

    Everyone at MSNBC

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  254. classic 1995 disaster flick Outbreak

    Yes, because we should all get our scientific, health and engineering information from movies and TV shows. I still remember the idiotic show that had spy satellites searching for a person’s DNA.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  255. BREAKING NEWS- CNN reports Federal Reserve to cut interest rates to ZERO.

    Frigging zero. Free money for banks!!! Remember that when you pay your CC bills w/a 15.5%-22% interest rate and mail them off to a Wilmington, DE based ‘incorporated’ bank box– based there thanks to their Plagiarist Pal, JoeyBee.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  256. omg this speech

    Davethulhu (a017e2)

  257. “Have a nice dinner. Relax!” – President Donald J. Trump, March 15, 2020

    And what’s for dessert?

    Strawberries, of course.

    Digest that– and sleep well, America.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  258. Remember that when you pay your CC bills w/a 15.5%-22% interest rate and mail them off to a Wilmington, DE based ‘incorporated’ bank box– based there thanks to their Plagiarist Pal, JoeyBee.

    My credit cards have a 0% rate, too.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  259. Remember that when you pay your CC bills w/a 15.5%-22% interest rate and mail them off to a Wilmington, DE based ‘incorporated’ bank box– based there thanks to their Plagiarist Pal, JoeyBee.

    My credit cards have a 0% rate, too.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 3/15/2020 @ 2:29 pm

    I don’t run a balance.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  260. The government limited international arrivals to 13 airports with only 2 days notice. Then passengers accelerated and rescheduled their travel plans to get here while they still can, in case the rules change again, so those 13 airports got a double or triple dose of arrivals. Still, lines are now back to normal at DFW. I have family that travel internationally and have sometimes stood in Customs lines for hours on normal days. When disruptions happen, that can happen.

    Another examples of poor leadership from the White House. They really are weak in a crisis.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  261. @261/262 “Average American Household Debt: $5,700. Average for balance-carrying households: $9,333. Total Outstanding U.S. Consumer Debt: $3.9 trillion. Total revolving debt: $1.03 trillion. 41.2% of all households carry some sort of credit card debt.” -source valuepenguin

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  262. The Fed also eliminated bank reserve requirements. What could go wrong?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  263. I don’t run a balance.

    That’s how my rate is zero.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  264. And, just to inject a little reality, Biden has had little to do with Delaware’s banking laws. He’s not that old.

    Incorporation was a VERY old idea when the US was founded. It has lots of important features for people and the businesses they form using their freedom of association.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  265. Reaganomics.

    😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  266. @267. Ignorance is bliss; stay happy.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  267. 196, why not with Sorosian SJW DA-afflicted county DOCs who now brag about 40% occupancy of the County Jail due to penalty write-downs i.e. Cook County IL. They’d do well to commandeer some of the 50 publuc schools and 20+ archdiocesan schools closed by Chicago since 2012. That would be an interesting take on NIMBY by the thus far least exposed least infected cohort of the American population, low-income African Americans.

    urbanleftbehind (69d06f)

  268. “Now: Stringent CV screening at airports is unacceptable!!
    https://mobile.twitter.com/govpritzker/status/1239021033191018497

    You say you like food, but then get mad when I throw an apple at your head?

    Davethulhu (a017e2)

  269. You didn’t find anyone saying “stringent screening is unacceptable”.

    You also didn’t scroll down the thread. Next time, save the typing.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  270. 196.Question: Why aren’t cities making deals with soon-to-be-empty hotels and motels for quarantine housing?

    All them Trump Hotel rooms to fill…

    at corporate rate???

    Nah. Top dollar!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  271. Then: Lax CV screening at airports is unacceptable!!
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/thousands-arriving-from-china-and-europe-at-us-airports-have-faced-no-coronavirus-screening-2020-03-14

    Now: Stringent CV screening at airports is unacceptable!!
    https://mobile.twitter.com/govpritzker/status/1239021033191018497

    Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/15/2020 @ 3:09 pm

    Do you really have a hard time understanding that totally Fu*&ing up the implementation of a good idea is still a Fu&* up? That seems really obvious but somehow you seem to struggle with the idea maybe a less political example.

    The cure for eating too much for a week is not eating nothing for a week. In both cases people will tell you your diet isn’t correct.

    is that more clear?

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  272. Just watched the Trump / Pence press conference. Pence gives the impression that he’s really on top of this. Trump seemed vague and confused about everything except what he wants from the Fed. That he seemed to be tuned in for.

    President Pence has a nice ring to it.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  273. Devin Nunes is telling people that now is a great time to take your family out to a restaurant. Is he stupid? Evil? Is he just out of the loop and running last week’s play book where good Trump supporters treat Coronoavirus as fake news?

    I’m genuinely curious what’s going on with him.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  274. @276.Pence gives the impression that he’s really on top of this.

    No, He doesn’t. He spouts empty platitudes, misleading vagaries.

    None of them are ‘on top of this’– the President literally ran out of the room– and standing crowded together on a platform sends the wrong message to start with.

    The presser showed just how far behind the curve America is in responding to somethin like this this in the modern world. It was a living commercial for a NHS w/established protocols, methods and procedures with ta management structure in place to provide a rapid, coordinated response, service the citizenry and quell fear. Half-azzed tents in Walmart parking lots does not do that.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  275. 277.Devin Nunes is telling people that now is a great time to take your family out to a restaurant. Is he stupid? Evil?

    Yes.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  276. So, answer this:

    China has 1.4 billion people. The virus started there and for 2 whole months all the government did was deny there was a problem. During those 2 months this VERY VIRULENT virus was spreading throughout Wuhan and eventually the entire country. Yet only 3200 deaths, even given their haphazard medical system. Even if they rounded up all the carriers and isolatee them, and didn’t miss a one, they still started about 3 months late.

    Meanwhile the FLU — a much less dangerous virus, and one for which there is a middling vaccine — kills 30-45K people each year in the US, with only 330 million people (about 1/4 the sized of China), and predictions are that — if we are lucky — Covid-19 will “only” kill a few hundred thousand here.

    Yet in Italy (pop 60million) Covid-19 is cutting an immediate swath through the elderly from a patient zero perhaps 45 days ago, and will probably kill more people than China admits to with their population 20x the size.

    It is VERY hard to believe the numbers that China provides. It is statistically impossible, matter of fact. If they hope that this lie will protect them from speculation and accusation, they are doing it all wrong.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  277. @277 He’s a suck-up with no thoughts of his own.

    Nic (896fdf)

  278. Did Trump have a stroke over the last month? Seriously, he was always a moron, but the level of stupid that he is displaying is shocking. 25th amendment please.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  279. It should be obvious, by now, that people are not really hoarding toilet paper. They’re using more of it because they’re pooping themselves from fear.

    nk (1d9030)

  280. “The cure for eating too much for a week is not eating nothing for a week. In both cases people will tell you your diet isn’t correct.
    is that more clear?”
    Time123 (ca85c9) — 3/15/2020 @ 3:40 pm

    Yes, because a bogus analogy clears things up. We’re not dealing with food, where there’s a window of acceptability that is actually quite wide. Do you not get that?

    The cure for letting infected travelers in with an initially lax screening process is to let zero infected travelers in. Stiff upper lip seems beyond us.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  281. @283. No sh!t. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  282. The idea is sound but this so-called administration would f*** up a wet dream. Why weren’t more border agents* put on overtime to handle the initial rush? Were they on cruises or something?

    *Not to be confused with “road agents” who held up stagecoaches in the Old West.

    nk (1d9030)

  283. OMG!!!!!! I had to wait three hours in customs so they could check for some deadly virus or something and they wouldn’t let me live stream. OMG!!!!!!!

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  284. “The cure for letting infected travelers in with an initially lax screening process is to let zero infected travelers in.”

    Is that was the current screening process is? Because it doesn’t sound like it.

    This is the scene at O’Hare airport. The traveler who took the photo said it’s a 6-hour wait for bags then on to customs for 2-4 more of waiting in shoulder-to-shoulder crowds. Police are handing out water and disinfectant wipes.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/BrookeGMcDonald/status/1238986272137502720

    Davethulhu (a017e2)

  285. “OMG!!!!!! I had to wait three hours in customs so they could check for some deadly virus or something and they wouldn’t let me live stream. OMG!!!!!!!”

    We now return to your regularly scheduled Munroe strawman.

    Davethulhu (a017e2)

  286. BTW, do we know how much of this coronavirus relief bill money is going to go to hotels, golf resorts, and casinos to compensate them for lost custom?

    nk (1d9030)

  287. Stiff upper lip seems beyond us.

    So does being truthful for you.

    Like a lot of crap we are told is binary, this isn’t. In fact, the predictable back-draft from your “simple solution” would invite a more lax regime. There is a nice fat, happy middle, and we just need some leadership to provide it.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  288. Right, Mr. Thulhu. They’re just making them wait for no good reason. Sadistic bastards.

    But, you’re clearly depriving border patrol of your expertise by wasting time complaining on a blog instead of finding your way to an airport to set them all straight. I find that very disappointing.

    Munroe (dd6b64)

  289. “I’m genuinely curious what’s going on with him”

    It’s not just him.

    Noted moron “Sheriff” Clarke:

    GO INTO THE STREETS FOLKS. Visit bars, restaurants, shopping malls, CHURCHES and demand that your schools re-open. NOW!
    If government doesn’t stop this foolishness…STAY IN THE STREETS.
    END GOVERNEMNT CONTROL OVER OUR LIVES. IF NOT NOW, WHEN?
    THIS IS AN EXPLOITATION OF A CRISIS.

    https://twitter.com/SheriffClarke/status/1239320085778571266

    Davethulhu (a017e2)

  290. 276-Time123:

    These guys are ready to breach the perimeter if that 25th amendment thing goes nowhere.

    urbanleftbehind (69d06f)

  291. But, you’re clearly depriving border patrol of your expertise by wasting time complaining on a blog…

    Now THIS is ad hominem.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  292. I don’t want to look it up. Is this Sheriff “Cheesehead” Clarke who locked up a prisoner without water letting him die of thirst?

    nk (1d9030)

  293. The Sourpuss: never suck on a lemon before going on camera to debate, JoeyBee

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  294. Munroe, what happened to all that CBP Swat that was going to intercept people post-gavel? Get them some scrubs and swabs, especially since the Venn between international airports and sanctuary cities is eclipse-like.

    urbanleftbehind (69d06f)

  295. ” Is this Sheriff “Cheesehead” Clarke who locked up a prisoner without water letting him die of thirst?”

    Yep!

    Davethulhu (a017e2)

  296. Meandering Joe; can’t answer a direct question from Tapper, eh, Biden?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  297. Pry that cowboy hat off his head and hes just another…there has to be a white redneck sheriff or big city Oirish cop that dont know him from Adam without the Gap Band getup.

    urbanleftbehind (69d06f)

  298. Biden can’t answer direct questions in this debate.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  299. Pry that cowboy hat off his head and hes just another…there has to be a white redneck sheriff or big city Oirish cop that dont know him from Adam without the Gap Band getup.

    He’s from Wisconsin, if he was wearing a pink tutu, he’d not be any more out of place.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (305827)

  300. Biden can’t answer direct questions in this debate.

    Old-timey politico. We had Dan Rostenkowski, here, who first impressed me, and I mean this sincerely, for being able to talk for fifteen minutes, sounding wise and erudite, and tell you nothing.

    nk (1d9030)

  301. You may not like Bernie, but he deserves the credit– he is kicking Biden’s ass. And if he ca do it– Trump is going to wipe the floor with him.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  302. OMG!!!!!! I had to wait three hours in customs so they could check for some deadly virus or something and they wouldn’t let me live stream. OMG!!!!!!!

    Munroe (dd6b64) — 3/15/2020 @ 4:33 pm

    If this is what you think people are complaining about I can’t help you.
    Or maybe you’re just pretending to think that. Either way there’s no point in talk with you about it.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  303. Sanders certainly won’t win the nomination, but he is right about Biden talking in circles and contradicting himself; Bernie keeps nailing Biden w/his own record:

    From JoeyBee’s wiki bio: Biden was a sponsor of bankruptcy legislation during the 2000s, which was sought by MBNA, one of Delaware’s largest companies, and other credit card issuers. Biden allowed an amendment to the bill to increase the homestead exemption for homeowners declaring bankruptcy and fought for an amendment to forbid anti-abortion felons from using bankruptcy to discharge fines; the overall bill was vetoed by Bill Clinton in 2000 but then finally passed as the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act in 2005, with Biden supporting it. A vociferous supporter, Biden was one of only 18 Democratic senators to vote along with the Republicans in favor of the legislation, while leading Democrats and consumer rights organizations came out in opposition.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  304. Do I have to school you on THIS now, too?

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)

  305. For DCSCA, A man with a gun:

    An off-duty U.S. Border Patrol Agent ended a stabbing incident inside the Sam’s Club here by taking decisive action that saved lives.

    On March 14, 2020, at approx. 7:30 p.m. an off-duty Border Patrol Agents heard a commotion while shopping inside the local Sam’s Club. While investigating the commotion he encountered an individual actively assaulting multiple people with a knife, including a small child and a Sam’s Club employee. The agent identified himself as law-enforcement while drawing his firearm. He subsequently disarmed the suspect and held him until local law-enforcement officers from the Midland Police Department arrived and took custody of the individual identified as Jose Gomez.

    “The quick action of our Agent ended this shocking situation and clearly saved multiple lives,” said Big Bend Sector Chief Patrol Agent Matthew Hudak.

    DRJ (15874d)

  306. For DRJ:

    A broken clock is right twice a day.

    But don’t live your life around it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  307. In general, Democrats did not like the 2005 Bankruptcy Act because it made it harder to file Chapter 7 liquidation bankruptcies. There were many provisions that were compromises between Democrats and Republicans. No one side got a win.

    DRJ (15874d)

  308. Those aren’t blinders you’re wearing, are they, DCSCA?

    DRJ (15874d)

  309. CDC recommending no gatherings larger than 50 people.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  310. 290. nk (1d9030) — 3/15/2020 @ 4:43 pm

    BTW, do we know how much of this coronavirus relief bill money is going to go to hotels, golf resorts, and casinos to compensate them for lost custom?

    I think someone (Kudlow or Mnuchin) indicated on one of the Sunday interview shows that that sort of thing is going to be in the next bill. I dont think he was asked about golf resorts or casinos, though – that’s about airlines and so on.

    Meanwhile the Federal Reserve Board cut interest rates by a full one percentage point in one fell swoop, taking it down near to 0.00% – on a Sunday night (before the debate) and they didn’t even wait till their next meeting in the middle of the week – and this after having cut it by 1/2 percentage point last week. It still didn’t stop stock market index futures from trading down the limit in the Far East I think.

    Whether it’s schools or anything else – they make adecision and then aday or two laerm they go further.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  311. Craig Duncan
    @cr4igduncan
    General writing tip: never use a numeral in a sentence for any number below 9 use the word. After nine use the numeral for each number.

    Your welcome.
    _

    This made my day.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  312. Homophones! What’re ya gonna do?

    nk (1d9030)

  313. @184

    So, just to be clear, besides what you name, there were no other effects of Chinese authoritarian rule in the response to CV19?

    Examples? Being able to control information is a pretty big effect. If you’ve got something else in mind I’m not sure what it is. Do you mean they’ve controlled the spread? Or that they built multiple hospitals, or rather warehouses with beds at precisely spaced intervals, to deal with the situation?

    Sure, China has done all sorts of things. Just ask them and they’ll tell you all about it.

    frosty (f27e97)

  314. “ On the other hand, if by works you mean they control the news and can claim whatever they want, then yes, it works great for that.”

    To many favorably comparing the Chinese response, this is a feature, not a bug.
    _

    harkin (b64479)

  315. China released some new statistics. Industrial production is down 13%, they had expected to hear 4% (what> hey were already conceding blow zero growth!?)

    Of course in truth, American companies in China – big ones that borrow from Bank of America – ones that China knows the world knows about – were at 60% or 70%.

    Retail sales in China were down 20% – they had been expected to say 4%.

    Sammy Finkelman (e4c3a1)

  316. To many favorably comparing the Chinese response, this is a feature, not a bug.

    You don’t have to be a Sinophile to understand Chinese efforts to contain and treat the virus go beyond mere propaganda. Nor is anyone here that I’ve read comparing the Chinese response with ours, favorably or otherwise.

    Ragspierre (d9bec9)


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