Patterico's Pontifications

8/23/2018

Manhattan D.A.: Maybe We Should Look at Who Authorized that Payment to Stormy

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:10 pm



It’s unseemly to cackle. And yet I can’t seem to help myself:

The Manhattan district attorney’s office is considering pursuing criminal charges against the Trump Organization and two senior company officials in connection with Michael D. Cohen’s hush money payment to an adult film actress, according to two officials with knowledge of the matter.

A state investigation would center on how the company accounted for its reimbursement to Mr. Cohen for the $130,000 he paid to the actress, Stephanie Clifford, who has said she had an affair with President Trump, the officials said.

Both officials stressed that the office’s review of the matter is in its earliest stages and prosecutors have not yet made a decision on whether to proceed.

State charges against the company or its executives could be significant because Mr. Trump has talked about pardoning some of his current or former aides who have faced federal charges. As president, he has no power to pardon people and corporate entities convicted of state crimes.

Who did approve that payment? Surely nobody with the last name of “Trump.”

Surely!

UPDATE: Nope, it’s someone with the last name of “Weisselberg.” And he got immunity.

Wow.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

310 Responses to “Manhattan D.A.: Maybe We Should Look at Who Authorized that Payment to Stormy”

  1. Nothing will cause Trump to break out his pardon pen faster than watching one of his kids get indict–

    What’s that, you say? He can’t pardon people for state crimes?? Well, I guess I should have read the whole post! Darn!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. I am a bit puzzled. Trump Org is a (very) private company, so there would be no investors or lenders to mislead. If campaign finance laws were violated that is a federal matter. The most I can see is mischaracterizing the payments to Cohen in financial reports filed with the state and that seems more a regulatory fine kind of thing, not a criminal prosecution kind of thing.

    kishnevi (2bcf76)

  3. Heh! Cyrus Vance Jr. is himself under investigation by the State Attorney General for handling the Winstein sexual assault case the way his old man handled the Iran hostage crisis.

    nk (dbc370)

  4. kishnevi,

    The linked article says:

    Manhattan prosecutors are focused on whether business records were falsified, one of the officials said. That could be charged as a low-level felony, or as a misdemeanor. It’s a misdemeanor for a person or company to make a false entry in a business record or cause one to be made, with intent to defraud. It becomes a felony if it is done to commit or conceal another crime.

    Hope that helps.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  5. Derp staters stand together.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  6. And what kishnevi said.

    But this a DA who has prosecuted 70,000 people, mostly black people, for possession of pocket knives under an interpretation of New York state’s gravity knife law found only in Manhattan and nowhere else in the State of New York.

    nk (dbc370)

  7. If investigating the key witness against weinstein for four years constitutes, mishandling then probably. Of course we know that office led a jihad against Exxon Mobil because skydragon

    Narciso (af5641)

  8. The Trump Foundation exposure looks pretty bad too. It was a pretty obvious scam, and all of his kids, well the ones he likes, were on the board.

    Trump with his “Many of my friends know about flipping”, should have known that being the president might mean he’ll be under a microscope.

    He’s been covered in NYC developer dirt for 50 years, and he’s also been so shortsighted, ahem…cheap, about actually hiring qualified professional staff, that there was only so much time it was going to take for all of the shady deals were coming out.

    But he’s president, so the remedy isn’t criminal charges, it’s pure political impeachment, and that means you have to get folks like Louis Gohmert to vote for impeachment, although the House won’t be a problem.

    Colonel Klink (ce15d9)

  9. Patterico…to have intent to defraud you need people who will be defrauded. Trump Org had no public shareholders or many investors.
    And saying that Cohen was paid x amount of dollars for y instead of saying x amount of dollars for z is not necessarily fraud. If the payments were not mentioned at all, that’s a different story. But misstating the reason while correctly reporting the amount paud seems a much lower thing.

    kishnevi (2bcf76)

  10. Of course I could relate to you how south Florida State prosecutors have a checkered past in who they chose to go after and who they don’t going back to Janet reno.

    Narciso (af5641)

  11. Long before her, Narciso. Even when I was a teenager politics and prosecutors could be distinctive. (We moved down here in 1968).

    kishnevi (2bcf76)

  12. Well I don’t know the details about dardis who was immortalized in all the presidents men

    Narciso (af5641)

  13. So the Trump organization probably swindles people out of their properties, creates phony universities, abuses eminent domain, swings in and out of bankruptcy at the drop of a hat, and probably has books cooked more thoroughly than a Thanksgiving dinner, yet the NYC District Attorney is going to nail him on paying hush-hush money to a sex worker. Tells you a lot about the rot in our political system, doesn’t it?

    And it amazing that no matter how many people around Di Blasio and Cuomo get indicted and convicted, somehow prosecutors can never quite tie their actions to those two frauds.

    JVW (42615e)

  14. 9…

    Patterico…to have intent to defraud you need people who will be defrauded. Trump Org had no public shareholders or many investors.
    And saying that Cohen was paid x amount of dollars for y instead of saying x amount of dollars for z is not necessarily fraud. If the payments were not mentioned at all, that’s a different story. But misstating the reason while correctly reporting the amount paud seems a much lower thing.

    The state can be the victim of the fraud, ex. tax fraud. They’re investigating, so they’ve probably seen some of the documentary evidence from Cohen’s search warrants.

    Is your point that these would be “victimless” crimes? Because that’s not how these technical and conspiracy crimes work.

    Colonel Klink (ce15d9)

  15. JVW (42615e) — 8/23/2018 @ 8:22 pm

    In the grand scheme of Manhattan businesses, Trump’s is a small family business, so typically they’re going to go after other things. Trump’s businesses have been busted many times for various violations, just not enough to put them out of business, well, other than the 4 bankruptcies. They’ve paid 10’s of millions in fines over the years.

    Colonel Klink (ce15d9)

  16. Here’s the honest truth: Everyone pursuing this nonsense hated Trump from the get go, including the author of this blog.

    This is a huge nothingburger unless you hated Trump to begin with.

    Why, as a normal American, am I supposed to care about any of this nonsense? In contrast to the economy, the Supreme Court, etc.

    I’ll take my answer off the air.

    Sven Trunda (7d0b19)

  17. Them New York Values!

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  18. Is your point that these would be “victimless” crimes? Because that’s not how these technical and conspiracy crimes work.
    Not quite.
    If intent to defraud is the crime, you need people who are actually defrauded. Which seems to be lacking here.
    I just am trying to see what action here might be a crime under the laws of the state of New York. I see a bunch of possible crimes, but they all seem federal level.
    The best I can see is filing false financials and that is more a regulatory matter and not really implicating anyone beyond Donald’s accountant.
    For whom I have no sympathy. If you know your client is a con man you need a different client.

    kishnevi (2bcf76)

  19. Why, as a normal American, am I supposed to care about any of this nonsense? In contrast to the economy, the Supreme Court, etc.

    Sven Trunda (7d0b19) — 8/23/2018 @ 8:31 pm

    So because you love Trump, he is above the law. Same folks who praised Stalin were happy to see Stalin’s critics in exile. I imagine the country you want would be a pretty dangerous place for Trump’s critics, huh?

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  20. Ask d’nesh d’souza about that, he was targeted precisely for his political view points,

    Narciso (af5641)

  21. @15. Meh. There’s 8 millions stories in the Naked City.

    Trump’s one of them.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  22. …to have intent to defraud you need people who will be defrauded.

    That’s not exactly true because the Trump Foundation could be defrauding the US government, i.e., The American People, by failing to act as an actual tax-exempt foundation.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  23. 20.Ask d’nesh d’souza about that, he was targeted precisely for his political view points,

    More whine from the Colludin’ Cuban. Bitter dregs:

    On May 15, 2014, United States District Judge Richard M. Berman rejected the contention that D’Souza was singled out for prosecution, stating, “The court concludes the defendant has respectfully submitted no evidence he was selectively prosecuted.” On May 20, 2014, D’Souza pleaded guilty to one felony count of making illegal contributions in the names of others. – wikirapsheet

    “Roger… Pay the two-dollars.” – Clara Thornhill [Jessie Royce Landis] ‘North By Northwest’ 1959

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  24. Wishful thinking is not thought. It is wishing. Which is not thought. Geddit?

    Fred Z (05d938)

  25. The Trump Organization’s lawyer, Alan S. Futerfas, declined to comment.

    I suppose so. How about that. All the more reason to cackle!

    Tillman (d34303)

  26. I don’t think anyone’s ever accused Spanky of being a smart criminal. He’s having trouble buying / threatening / bullying his way out of all this. The chicken’s coming home to roost, and we’re a-cackling.

    Tillman (d34303)

  27. A good real lawyer does not discuss his client’s business with dog food peddlers. And that includes prosecutors. They’re not supposed to willy-nilly smear people with insinuations of criminal conduct. If they have an indictment, they can announce it, and after that do their talking in court.

    nk (dbc370)

  28. Being a victim of blackmail is not a crime. Stormy, the blackmailer, is the one who should be prosecuted.

    David in Cal (0d5a1d)

  29. Being a victim of blackmail is not a crime. Stormy, the blackmailer, is the one who should be prosecuted.

    David in Cal

    That’s an argument I’ve seen in a few places. I guess I get it if you limit your understanding to the women demanding payment for silence. But if you listen to the recording or read a description of what was done, it was a bit more sophisticated. In one case, the woman wanted to come forward. She did the exact opposite of blackmail. Trump and his little mafia of crooks purchased the rights to the story only so the story could not be told. They then lied, saying the story was ‘fake news’. And of course, they hid the campaign expenses and contribution for the same reason: can’t tell the truth about a scandal you’re trying to hide.

    At any rate, it’s a shame this information wasn’t known during the GOP primary.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  30. What was the saying colson was fond of in his pre born again days. I don’t think he had much choice in the matter.

    Narciso (af5641)

  31. I don’t think Karen McDougal merely wanted to come forward. She wanted more than the $150,000 cash the National Enquirer paid her. The publicity, the TV appearances, more buyers for her story, maybe a book deal, maybe a movie even. Same complaint as Stormy — she was “lowballed”.

    nk (dbc370)

  32. What did the people behind them want, you’re a hard boiled attorney, you buy her story either one?

    Narciso (af5641)

  33. nk,

    granted, these women are motivated by money in a lot of matters. But she wasn’t blackmailing Trump. She wasn’t promising to hide the truth in exchange for money. She was selling her story for publication as widely as possible.

    Trump gets what he deserves there. Why would a man with so much to lose sleep around with these women? It’s such poor judgment that it probably comes from the same insecurity that all those giant golden TRUMP logos come from. I do wonder what on earth the Russians have over Trump to have such influence over him. I bet we’ll know one day, and again Trump’s judgment will be hilariously poor.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  34. Wouldn’t the fraud be using sham legal invoices to hide payments that should have been reported to the FEC as campaign expenses/donations?

    DRJ (15874d)

  35. question to manhatten d.a. when sessions is replaced you better have never spit on the side walk and erased all your kiddie porn from the computer! what goes around comes around. trump has someone raring to go at a.g. and can’t wait to arrest hillary clinton.

    wendell (96912b)

  36. In late November 2016, after he was elected and before Sessions was AG, Trump decided not to prosecute Hillary:

    Mr. Trump, who branded his rival “Crooked Hillary” and said she would go to jail if he were president, said in an interview with reporters and editors at The New York Times that he was no longer interested in pursuing Mrs. Clinton, in part because he wanted to heal the wounds of a divisive campaign.

    “I don’t want to hurt the Clintons, I really don’t,” Mr. Trump said during the interview. “She went through a lot and suffered greatly in many different ways, and I am not looking to hurt them at all. The campaign was vicious.”

    His reversal on prosecuting Mrs. Clinton was particularly striking given the outsize role the issue played during the presidential campaign, in which her use of a private email server as secretary of state became a prominent theme, and one she has blamed for her loss to Mr. Trump.

    Dream on, wendell.

    DRJ (15874d)

  37. In late November 2016, after he was elected and before Sessions was AG, Trump decided not to prosecute Hillary

    Such a revealing quote.

    Notice his open contempt for the rule of law: the decision to prosecute doesn’t depend on whether you’ve broken the law, but only on his personal feelings toward you.

    Dave (445e97)

  38. True. He thinks like a dictator, not a President.

    DRJ (15874d)

  39. Trump responding to Sessions this morning…. “Department of Justice will not be improperly influenced by political considerations.” Jeff, this is GREAT, what everyone wants, so look into all of the corruption on the “other side” including deleted Emails, Comey lies & leaks, Mueller conflicts, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Ohr……”

    Directing the Attorney General and the Justice Department to go after his political enemies….in plain sight. At the same time, he continues to hound Sessions over his recusal, making it obvious that he expected “Jeff” to put a stop to the Russia investigation. Investigate them, not me.

    Anyone want to guess how he administers the IRS?

    noel (96c84f)

  40. I wish he would have investigated Obama, Hillary, et al, on Day One of his Administration, instead of calling off all investigations. Waiting until now makes his decisions look politicized instead of based on evidence legal wrongdoing.

    DRJ (15874d)

  41. Precisely how does Bill Clinton’s main legal fixer turn up as Michael Cohen’s attorney in a plea bargain with a special prosecutor?

    If you put that kind of plot line in a political thriller, the public would laugh you off the newsstand book racks. Nonetheless, we now have Lanny Davis, special counsel to the president for Bill Clinton during 1996-1998, declaring to CNN: “It’s my observation that Mr. Cohen has knowledge that would be of interest to the special counsel abyout the issue of whether Donald Trump, ahead of time, knew about the hacking of emails, which is a computer crime.” On Tuesday Davis told MSNBC that Cohen knew about “the possibility of a conspiracy to collude and corrupt the American democracy system in the 2016 election.”

    There you have it, boys and girls: None of this has anything to do with paying off floozies who claimed to have done the dirty with a presidential candidate. No one cares about that. It’s about using the legal system to extract “confessions” from Trump’s former attorney Michael Cohen that will keep the Black Legend alive of a Russian hack of the 2016 elections.”

    https://pjmedia.com/spengler/war-of-attrition-against-president-trump/

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  42. PJM, that’s great! I never need to go there with you here. I hate giving PJM traffic.

    DRJ (15874d)

  43. That’s too bad for you, DRJ. Stay with the H8.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  44. Lawyers… running with the likes of Lanny Davis. Nothing new under the Sun.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  45. You Can All Join In

    Here’s a pile of crap you can all join in on,
    It’s very simple and the old is new.
    Make your own facts up if you want to
    Any old bilge that you think will do, yeah.

    Red, blue, what’ll I do?
    Maybe I’ll just sit here thinking.
    Black, white, stop the fight.
    Does one of these colors ever bother you?

    Here’s a little mince you can all join in on,
    It’s very simple and it’s big with blue
    Make your own steps up if you want to
    Being light in teh loafers of course will do.
    Left, left, don’t get uptight.
    Toe their line and you’ll be alright.
    Clap hands, move around
    Recognize you’ve self-beclowned

    Here’s a little world you can all join in on
    It’s very simple and it’s big with blue
    Make your own crap up if you want to
    Any old crap that you think will do.
    Hate, yeah, it’s nothing new.
    There’s someone much worse than you are.
    Take leave of your senses
    Don’t forget, no mending fences

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  46. It’s Traffic on Friday!

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  47. The host, who derides “tribalism” refuses to see he’s thrown in with the Big Blue Tribe. As plain as the nose on his face.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  48. It’s the folks at PJM who are close-minded. They don’t see any problem with Trump because BINARY CHOICE, but that was 2 years ago. Trump does good things and bad things. I don’t trust the judgment of people who only see good any more than I trust those who only see bad.

    DRJ (15874d)

  49. Haiku:

    The host is a prosecutor. Let that sink in a moment. This is a person in law enforcement.

    And whatever good things Trump may have done in policy, he talks like a criminal, and complains at length about one of the leading tools prosecutors use. He has used his vulcan mind meld on the 30% to put law enforcement is disrepute, because he doesn’t like the kind of criminals law enforcement vacuums up.

    You’ve read this guy for years. How do you think he’s going to react to a concentrated, coordinated attack on his profession?

    Appalled (c9622b)

  50. Folks who wonder if Lanny Davis is a registered agent of a Russian oligarch may be on to something.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  51. 49… i’ve given up trying to figure this guy out.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  52. Trump zigs when he should zag, he can’t keep his mouth shut, he is prone to buffoonery and hyperbole as many salespeople are. This is a convoluted attempt to reverse an election and given all the forces arrayed against him… including a great many people who wish this nation great harm… I refuse to join that rabble and I will continue to call bullschiff on all of it.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  53. So you stand up for your beliefs? Good for you. So do I. So does Lanny Davis.

    DRJ (15874d)

  54. And who’s watching the criminals in the top tier of our nation’s law enforcement? Being shuffled around, or worst case fired doesn’t address the fundamental need to root these miscreants out and bring THEM to justice

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  55. And so does Patterico. We can disagree, can’t we?

    DRJ (15874d)

  56. Trump was elected in pa rt because he promised to bring them to justice, but then he changed his mind. That is on him.

    DRJ (15874d)

  57. Lanny Davis and his “beliefs” can take a flying roger at a rolling donut.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  58. Trump said, “I’ve seen it many times, I’ve had many friends involved in this stuff, it’s called flipping and it almost ought to be illegal.” and this…. “I know all about flipping, 30, 40 years I have been watching flippers”.

    You have to be in some mighty fine company to say things like that. When I see the Trumps now, this quote often comes to mind, “It takes a lot of money to look this cheap”. Dolly Parton

    noel (96c84f)

  59. 56. He’s not alone. Some call it dereliction of duty.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  60. 55… yeah, we can disagree.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  61. Trump’s greatest crime if fighting back against his enemies, which is something few conservatives have the stomach for, much less the heart, to do over the last 3 decades.

    I like a scrapper.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  62. Is fighting back

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  63. Errm … when you hire a lawyer to pay off a couple of floozies, don’t you have a reasonable expectation that he will do it legally? And when he turns around and says that the reason he did it illegally is because that’s how you told him to do it, should it pass the giggle test to a reasonable third party?

    nk (dbc370)

  64. Well how did madoff get away with it, how did mcauliffe along with the board of global crossing, weissman burnt Arthur Anderson down to the foundations apologies no keep on going.

    narciso (d1f714)

  65. Glad you “like a scrapper” – but why are you whining so much about the scrap itself, then?

    The Trumpkins like it that “Trump fights!” but are slowly coming to grips with the fact that he’a not very good at it and he’s going to lose.

    Leviticus (304063)

  66. Trump ran as the tough guy — frankly, as the bully. If anyone can stand up and persevere, it should be him. He ran on that promise so it’s fair to expect him to do more than whine about opposition.

    He is the Presiddnt. He has the power to change things — not unlimited power, but no other person in the US and maybe the world has the power that an American President has to affect our government. And he is wasting it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  67. We think alike, Leviticus. That made my day.

    DRJ (15874d)

  68. When the legality or illegality of the payment comes down to you reimbursing your lawyer, it’s kinda out of his hands, isn’t it?

    And we all know Trump’s reputation when it comes to paying what he owes – he was just too stupid to realize that this was the wrong time to be a chiseler.

    Leviticus (304063)

  69. Look, does anyone really think that paying off two floozies is all there is? That we’re done with SDNY?

    Trump won’t be impeached for Stormy & McDougal. The milestone is that there is a legal record that someone has plead guilty for committing a felony purportedly at the direction of Trump. That sounds like an un-indicted co-conspirator to me.

    Appalled (c9622b)

  70. Why did Republicans vote to impeach Bill Clinton again?

    noel (96c84f)

  71. 71. Perjury. Not the sex, but lying about it on the record. Perjury is a pretty basic crime, and it cost Clinton his law licence and a plea bargain.

    Appalled (c9622b)

  72. I’m sure there was nothing untoward here:

    https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/271121/well-find-out-abount

    Narciso (df3ce3)

  73. Illinois Pattern Jury Instruction 3.17; Testimony Of An Accomplice

    When a witness says he was involved in the commission of a crime with the defendant,
    the testimony of that witness is subject to suspicion and should be considered by you with
    caution. It should be carefully examined in light of the other evidence in the case.

    nk (dbc370)

  74. nk:

    And the other evidence is being gathered now…

    This is the thing. Trumpers like to think whatever revelation of the day is the end point, and that’s all there is. Then it turns out there is more.

    There’s is no reason to have confidence that we have seen substantially everything.

    Appalled (c9622b)

  75. California and New York are passing laws that would define the payment of real estate taxes as charitable contributions in order to avoid paying federal tax on it. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-state-local-tax-deduction-20180823-story.html# Which is the bigger fraud?

    nk (dbc370)

  76. Leviticus… Trump isn’t part of the gang… the gang that has been in power for quite a while. He’s an outsider. You do get that… yes?

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  77. 76… and I’ve read the IRS is having none of it.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  78. 75… I’m waiting for moar Russian Collusion. You folks have no shame… taxi medallions… paying floozies off… what a fvcking joke

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  79. Perjury. Does ANYBODY think Trump could avoid committing perjury while testifying before Mueller? Boy, that would be fun to watch.

    “So, Mr. President…. when you said that nobody in your camp met with Russians during the campaign, were you being honest?.” “Were you being truthful when you said that you didn’t know about payments to Playboy models?” On and on.

    noel (96c84f)

  80. “Evidence”… what a crock of excrement.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  81. There are going to be some mighty selective audits because the IRS cannot audit the tax return of every homeowner for the bogus charitable contribution. I would start with the tax returns of every elected official.

    nk (dbc370)

  82. “He is the Presiddnt. He has the power to change things — not unlimited power, but no other person in the US and maybe the world has the power that an American President has to affect our government. And he is wasting it.”

    What’s the Derp Mook State doing? You’re just an interested bystander, no skin in the game, but what are they up to? Is this all on the up and up? What happened to the whole Russian Collusion crock? Was it all a ruse? If it was, to what end? Does this look like justice to you?

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  83. Trump said, “I’ve seen it many times, I’ve had many friends involved in this stuff, it’s called flipping and it almost ought to be illegal.” and this…. “I know all about flipping, 30, 40 years I have been watching flippers”.

    My personal favorite was praising the “bravery” of a newly-convicted felon facing 80 years in prison for defrauding the United States.

    Dave (445e97)

  84. It’s Mr. Higgs-Boson Stolen Valor Friday… yay!!!

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  85. More whining. Is he a fighter or not, Haiku? If so, let him fight – right? To the victor go the spoils?

    Or are you now going to invoke principles?

    Leviticus (304063)

  86. Yuh principles?

    Leviticus (304063)

  87. I wish he would have investigated Obama, Hillary, et al, on Day One of his Administration, instead of calling off all investigations. Waiting until now makes his decisions look politicized instead of based on evidence legal wrongdoing.

    DRJ (15874d) — 8/24/2018 @ 4:31 am

    You mean like prosecuting Manafort while giving immunity to his partner for the exact same actions they declined to prosecute years before?

    NJRob (0551a6)

  88. What changed between then and now DRJ?

    NJRob (0551a6)

  89. No reporting at all about the stuff in the dossier about Cohen being fake.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  90. Cheering a corrupt AG that ignores Andrew Cuomo’s crimes and DeBlasio.

    Where’s the alleged conspiracy that opened this special inquisition?

    But all you get in response is “derp muh Ryssia” from chumps who think that’s a witty retort.

    You want an oligarchy and are upset that Trump has sullied the office because he wasn’t part of the club. And you are made that the voters had free choice to do so. Guess what, they’ll likely do so again. Because this doesn’t matter to them. Speak to people outside your bubble. If you can handle talking to the masses.

    NJRob (0551a6)

  91. NJRob,

    They are going after Trump, obviously, although Manafort’s position as campaign manager also put him on the radar in a big way and the DOJ can’t ignore his crimes once he’s on the radar.

    There are probably dozens (maybe more) of people in DC and around the country who hide and lie to accountants about their income/assets, don’t register as lobbyists, etc. They could be prosecuted for crimes like these, but they aren’t because they don’t raise red flags with money transfers/banks and no one takes the time to look at what they are doing. It’s like all the people who speed or drive recklessly. Most don’t get caught unless there is a policeman in the area who sees it.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  92. We’ll eventually find out if he is, Leviticus.

    The whole thing is a stinking bait and switch operation. You folks who support it should take pride in that, especially you in the legal profession.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  93. “I like people that weren’t captured”. Donald Trump

    Personally, I like people who weren’t convicted.

    noel (96c84f)

  94. Ditto re the allegations about Duncan Hunter and Chris Collins, plus all the people in Congress who abused the House Bank privileges. They don’t get caught until someone looks.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  95. How long was Manafort turn as Trump’s campaign manager?

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  96. I support more of it, Haiku. I want Trump and Sessions to investigate everyone. Look instead of closing their eyes to corruption, because that is how you Drain the Swamp.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  97. Except they knew about these acts and declined to prosecute.

    And yes, they are going after Trump. So you have no qualms about that partisanship and trying to overturn an election? This is purely trying to overthrow the legitimately elected president by any means necessary. That sits well with you? That sits well with anyone?

    NJRob (0551a6)

  98. 95… or the guys who take bribes and travel to the Dominican Republic to abuse underage women… they don’t get caught until someone gives a rip.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  99. Mere months, Haiku. He was brought in for the convention, because Trump needed that more than he cared about Manafort’s history. I guess he thought it was old news. I guess Manafort did, too. Everyone thinks that until they are caught.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  100. Ask the Catholic Church.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  101. 98… you know it sits well with them, why bother asking?

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  102. By any means necessary? No, certainly not. By criminal convictions that are based on the truth? Yes.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  103. If the legal profession plays a pivotal role in bringing about Trump’s impeachment and/or incarceration, Colonel, believe me: I will take great pride in that.

    Leviticus (304063)

  104. Sessionszzzzzzz?

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  105. Snoozy McSnoozerson?

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  106. Yeah, that’s on Trump.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  107. I bet you will, lefty.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  108. But don’t hold your breath.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  109. I don’t care if everyone around a President gets convicted of crimes as long as they committed crimes, and every President gets impeached as a result. That is how the swamp is drained.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  110. Prosecutorial discretion as a check on elections is one of those “checks and balances” the Framers intended. I think it’s in Article VIII somewhere.

    Munroe (2c0e2c)

  111. That’s why it was important there were overt acts of reimbursing/paying the settlements, nk, and (even more important) whether Trump knew what was being done.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  112. By any means necessary? No, certainly not. By criminal convictions that are based on the truth? Yes.

    DRJ (46c88f) — 8/24/2018 @ 7:17 am

    Except according to many legal minds Cohen pleaded guilty to something that wasn’t a crime to avoid being charged with real crimes with his taxi medallions. And had his tax fraud right on the edge of higher crimes if he didn’t play ball? That sound honest to you or just a Russian gulag game of getting people to rat out the next anti-communist?

    NJRob (0551a6)

  113. Most people change their behavior if there are consequences for bad behavior. Politicians and other people with great power are often so narcissistic that they don’t think they can be caught. That’s why it’s even more important to hold them accountable.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  114. It was a crime, NJRob. Some people don’t care about crimes they think are victimless or little. Some people don’t care about the rules. I know a few and I bet you do, too. That doesn’t mean we should be able to avoid the law when we don’t like who gets caught.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  115. As for Cohen, my recollection is that the documents indicate he took 4 years to avoid 20+ years. That sounds like a smart choice.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  116. And everyone commits at least 3 felonies a day DRJ. Care to have the government snoop in every aspect of your life?

    If ot was a crime, why are his partners skating?

    NJRob (0551a6)

  117. DRJ,

    you have no issue with forced state confessions to actions that aren’t criminal and stating they are if it alleviates the pain of further suffering?

    NJRob (0551a6)

  118. That’s my last question. I feel like I’m tilting at windmills.

    NJRob (0551a6)

  119. I have no problem with plea bargaining, which is what happens. Calling it “forced state confessions” is impressive but not accurate because it is not forced. They can go to trial and take their chances there. I also have no problem with changing the system if you think you have a better idea.

    Further, judges are not allowed to take pleas if there is no crime alleged and no confession to that crime. Is it possible innocent men go to jail? Yes, that happens but these men have good counsel and the resources to go to trial (as Manafort proved). Does it occur to you that they are guilty because they did the crimes?

    DRJ (46c88f)

  120. Once again, Trump conveys white-nationalist propaganda, this time with the “large-scale killings” business in South Africa, and which is trivially provably false. How many more Stormfront-friendly comments does he have to add to his body of work to convince his supporters that he’s a racist? There’s enough there.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  121. Manafort’s partner Gates is “skating” because he went to the prosecutor first and because he is the smaller fish. However, Gates has plead guilty to crimes. He has simply escaped jail for now, and maybe forever, but he will be a felon and there are consequences that go with that.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  122. 120 How about Flynn who didn’t have the resources to defend himself?

    Do you feel selective enforcement is OK? Some people get threatened with decades in jail while others who did the same thing don’t even get investigated? That would seem very prone to abuse and a sure fire way to erode trust in the system.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  123. This makes sense. The one juror holdout in the Manafort trial was unable to see reason or to explain her reasoning.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  124. And everyone commits at least 3 felonies a day DRJ. Care to have the government snoop in every aspect of your life?

    Where did you hear that? Everyone breaks the law but typically it is via traffic offenses, certainly not felonies. You may be right about some people who lead high-risk lives and don’t care about consequences, but I doubt it is true of “everyone.”

    DRJ (46c88f)

  125. His crime was to challenge Obama, and speaking up for robin gritz

    Narciso (da05df)

  126. I don’t like the results of selective enforcement because it often seems unfair, but how else can the system show that it wants the laws to be obeyed? The other choices are prosecute everyone all the time or prosecute no one. Thus, if you want people to understand there will be consequences for violating laws, selective enforcement is the best way to do that.

    It’s no different than when the police go to an area and monitor speed with radar guns and then stop every speeder. That is selective — only the people on the road on that day get caught — but it sends a message that slows all speeders down.

    DRJ (46c88f)

  127. That was for general Flynn, so they decide to send the Weber and podesta reports up to the southern district a year later.

    Narciso (da05df)

  128. Selective enforcement only against republicans, and then only certain ones, not bib corked for instance.

    Narciso (da05df)

  129. Well tom delay must have been guilty of something, otherwise he wouldn’t have bern charged.

    Narciso (da05df)

  130. Not exactly “high crimes”

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  131. Well tom delay must have been guilty of something, otherwise he wouldn’t have bern charged.

    This must be true, or they couldn’t say it on the Internet.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  132. “The one juror holdout in the Manafort trial was unable to see reason or to explain her reasoning.”

    It’s called juror discretion, much like the prosecutorial kind. There’s also voter discretion, but we’re doing something about that.

    Munroe (235115)

  133. It’s selective enforcement every time I travel on the Interstate in West Texas and get stopped by a Border Patrol checkpoint looking for illegal immigrants or smugglers. That’s no fun but it’s necessary, and it doesn’t just target Republicans. But if you think Democrats aren’t targeted enough, then elect a President who will investigate, indict, and try them. Remember “Lock her up?” Trump doesn’t.

    DRJ (15874d)

  134. Supposedly, 77% of Americans – including 52% of Republicans polled – now support Medicare for all. So we put the federal government… the same entity holding responsibility for the sorry state of healthcare… put them in charge… the same folks administering the VA, which continues to hide and lie about their performance.

    Yes, we are fooked.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  135. Except for the damage being done to the country with DJT obsessing over his legal perils, and the end of any hope for legit immigration reform with a weakened DJT, I am loving the fact that he is having the full weight of the legal system come down on him the way he would bring the same on decent folks.

    Reap well, Donald.

    Ed from SFV (6d42fa)

  136. #126 narciso gives us a link, and tells us “nothing to see here”. OK, I suspect sarcasm, and look:

    According to a new report, Bruce Ohr bypassed his superiors to share intelligence from the so-called ‘Trump dossier’ with the FBI.

    The report came Thursday ahead of a scheduled hearing where GOP investigators will grill Ohr on an alleged anti-Trump bias campaign launched by the Obama-administration.

    The Justice Department official has been accused of relaying opposition research to Christopher Steele and Fusion GPS during President Trump’s campaign in 2016.

    However, Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein has stated Ohr was “never involved” in the Russia investigation.

    Ohr is scheduled to testify before the House Oversight Committee and the Judiciary Committee on Tuesday.

    Daggone, Mr. Narc is absolutely right. Nothing to see. Next time, I’ll take him on faith and skip the link,

    Appalled (c9622b)

  137. How about Flynn who didn’t have the resources to defend himself?

    Flynn was cashing fat checks (which somehow slipped his mind when filling out the financial disclosure forms) from his Turkish and Russian bosses just a few months before he got caught lying. And we’re supposed to believe he’s indigent?

    There are plenty of middle-income and poor people who are charged with crimes and lack the resources to hire a team of fancy-pants, cuff-linked lawyers. Should we release anyone who has to rely on the public defender?

    Dave (445e97)

  138. Haiku,

    push poll. They’ve used them successfully for years. Why stop a proven tool of success. It doesn’t help that we’ve allowed the left to thoroughly indoctrinate the youth of America from school, to mass media to social media.

    And they have subconscious controls in their head to associate anything against the indoctrination as racist, sexist, homophobic, etc.

    NJRob (b00189)

  139. I’m not convinced by that poll, either, but it could also mean Americans would rather have Medicare than ObamaCare.

    DRJ (15874d)

  140. Supposedly, 77% of Americans – including 52% of Republicans polled – now support Medicare for all.

    If true, that is terrible news, and an indictment of Trump’s total failure to lead on this key issue (just like so many others).

    So we put the federal government… the same entity holding responsibility for the sorry state of healthcare…

    You’ve got things totally backwards here.

    We have the best healthcare system in the world, and it’s because government doesn’t hold responsibility for it.

    Dave (445e97)

  141. And yes, they are going after Trump. So you have no qualms about that partisanship and trying to overturn an election? This is purely trying to overthrow the legitimately elected president by any means necessary. That sits well with you? That sits well with anyone?

    Manafort may have been under investigation previously, but it was for his possible ties with Putin, not for fraud, and you don’t know how thorough the previous query was, but there was new information such as the hidden $12 million cash payment to him made by the political party headed by Yanukovych, a Putin stooge. It’s legitimate to investigate a guy whose loyalties to this country are in question and who happened to be the guy who ran Trump’s presidential campaign. Oh, and let’s not forget that Manafort had a Putin spy on his payroll, Kilimnik, the same guy who couldn’t last at the International Republic Institute because of suspected espionage. Manafort’s only reactions was “it’s not like these people wear badges that say, ‘I’m a Russian intelligence officer,’” which is pathetic. And Trump hired this guy, with no serious vetting whatsoever, which is also pathetic for a guy who says he goes to “”exceptional lengths to hire the best people in the world”.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  142. What boggles my mind is everyone on here claiming that the AG is independent and Trump has no say, yet demanding he is to blame for Clinton and Obama getting off.

    P.S. https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2018/08/22/despite_comey_assurance_vast_bulk_of_weiner_laptop_emails_never_examined.html

    Waiting for Comey to get prosecuted from that independent agency that investigates crimes.

    NJRob (b00189)

  143. Paul,

    what you just posted has zero bearing on the Manafort case that was just decided. I hope you know that. Nothing you mentioned.

    Political prosecutions. Ask Scooter Libby.

    NJRob (b00189)

  144. 120 How about Flynn who didn’t have the resources to defend himself?

    Flynn pled guilty for lying to the FBI, and it really doesn’t matter how rich or poor you are, you shouldn’t lie to the feds. That’s kind of a bright line.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  145. happyfeet may stay on moderation a bit longer than expected:

    John McCain’s family announces he is discontinuing medical treatment

    My thoughts go out to McCain and his family.

    Dave (445e97)

  146. 136, do you mean “I must stop at a BP checkpoint”, the San Onofre checkpoint is the SoCal I-5 counterpart. All drivers must slow down, but are you picked on to exit the vehicle or allow a more thorough search more often than others due to (in the words of Col. Haiku) “swarthi-ness”?

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  147. NJRob,

    Sessions has legal and ethical obligations as a lawyer and an officer of the court. It means he can’t do something illegal or unethical just because Trump is his boss and told him to do it. (It is similar to the military, where officers do not swear to obey all commands.) But there are many legal orders Trump can give Sessions, including to investigate questionable actions by Obama, Hillary, etc. He has not given them and he may well have told Sessions not to investigate them, since he said he did not want to prosecute Hillary. Trump is still the person giving orders and Sessions has to follow them.

    I hope you see the difference between what you said and what I’m saying. I hope the military analogy helps you see it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  148. @150

    At the checkpoints I’ve seen video of, people are stopped and questioned briefly, including questions about citizenship.

    The INS can do this anywhere within 100 miles of the the border or coastline; it is not a border-crossing thing.

    Dave (445e97)

  149. R.I.P. Robin Leach

    Icy (2a33cc)

  150. It’s called juror discretion…

    It may be, but when a person says “reasonable doubt” and nothing else, and specifically did not say that the case was unjust, immoral or unconstitutional, I’m not seeing how juror discretion came into play.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  151. ULB 150,

    I’ve been stopped several times on IH10 in the El Paso area going back at least 15 years. All cars were stopped, searched, and everyone in the car was questioned (even kids). We’re blonde so I don’t think appearance mattered.

    DRJ (15874d)

  152. Today I learned that DRJ is blonde.

    Manafort may have been under investigation previously, but it was for his possible ties with Putin, not for fraud

    Yes, it’s a little hard to understand the outrage that these collusion claims are investigated. What did he expect to happen? Well he really did believe that once he was president, he could simply apply pressure to people like Comey and Sessions and be completely above the law. It’s interesting to imagine what Manafort would be up to today if that had been the case.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  153. Dave,

    you refuted nothing. Your own ranting are not refutations in the real world. Just in your own mind. Keep up the CON.

    NJRob (b00189)

  154. what you just posted has zero bearing on the Manafort case that was just decided. I hope you know that. Nothing you mentioned.

    It was a reply to a comment, and there’s a second upcoming trial.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  155. NJRob,

    Following up on my 151, I bet you thought of Cohen if you read my comment. I know it reminded me of him, because he claims Trump told him to pay the settlement money and effectively violate the campaign disclosure laws. Cohen, as a lawyer and officer of the court, should always refuse to break the law.

    However, one difference is that it would not be a violation to pay the settlement funds as long as the proper campaign disclosure forms were filed. Cohen could argue that he assumed the campaign and its lawyers would take care of it. The argument is not convincing but it is arguable.

    DRJ (15874d)

  156. 153, nooooooooo! Although I do feel that Nigel Farage can be fashioned (fattened?) into a reasonable facsimile down to the voice/accent.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  157. DRJ

    Maybe we are saying close to the same thing here, but here goes my take.

    Interdiction stops are targeted even if the day of the week they are run on is random (its supposed to be unpredictable and is not actually random).

    The officers may have been instructed to look today for OTM people due to intelligence received.

    Or you could take the Manhattan DA and his probes into the Trump Foundation and wonder if that has any targeted political component because it indeed does.
    Some DA’s are not honest even handed brokers and are a type of lawyer that are much despised

    steveg (a9dcab)

  158. 148 Bill Clinton did under Oath. The Administrator of Hillary’s server did, Couple of Muller’s agents did. I see tons of people lying to the feds with no consequences, why was he held to account?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  159. Today I learned that DRJ is blonde.

    And today I learned that Dustin can be a sexist pig. That was unnecessary Dustin. I think that DRJ is a lot smarter than you are anyway.

    Tillman (d34303)

  160. Sitting in L.A. X. Noticing a lot of Kane West t-shirts.
    And the rinos gasp.

    mg (496d21)

  161. 142 Medicare polls are meaningless. They are basically asking who wants a free steak dinner. There are no free steak dinners. Once they are presented with legislation that gives them a $20 steak dinner for only $60 support will disappear. Unless some slick liberal with the support of the media claims it will save $2400 per family.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  162. Tillman? You do know she said she was blonde going through a check point? Sorta makes you the sexist pig for assuming that is what was being said.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  163. I kind of agree, steveg.

    First, I think you are saying the Border Patrol wants its checkpoints to appear random even if they are looking for something specific based on intelligence. If so, I agree.

    Second, I think you are comparing not-really-random Border Patrol stops to targeted investigations by DAs. IOW, you think some DAs pretend to be “just investigating crime” when they actually have a specific target in mind. If so, I kind of agree.

    I think some DAs, like anyone, can have improper motives or tactics. However, I don’t think it is improper to have a specific target in mind but not announce it.

    DRJ (15874d)

  164. Dustin
    If anyone is above the law it’s Comey. And Sessions should be bathed in Tar and salt.

    mg (496d21)

  165. Untwist your knickers, Tillman! Dustin was referring to DRJ’s hair-color, which DRJ herself mentioned in an earlier comment, in reference to being stopped by the Border Patrol, making the point that the Border Patrol was not stopping only Mexican people, but I am somewhat perplexed that Dustin did not already know that DRJ is blonde, seeing as how DRJ has mentioned this fact, on these, premises, several times in the past.

    nk (dbc370)

  166. Dustin and I have known each other online a long time, Tillman. We’ve talked here for so many years about so many things that I feel like we are good, good friends — even though we’ve never actually met. I know I wonder what my online friends like Dustin look like, how old they are, etc. I think that’s how Dustin feels, too.

    DRJ (15874d)

  167. And today I learned that Dustin can be a sexist pig. That was unnecessary Dustin. I think that DRJ is a lot smarter than you are anyway.

    Tillman (d34303) — 8/24/2018 @ 9:23 am

    Hahahahaha,

    No disrespect was intended by my remark, and she is rather obviously smarter than I am.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  168. Frankly, I feel like I know you, too, Tillman. Not as well but a little based on the times we’ve talked.

    DRJ (15874d)

  169. You do know she said she was blonde going through a check point?

    You could be correct – all too often when any guy refers to a woman as a blonde, it is not a complement. But if that was only a passing comment and not an insult Dustin, I apologize. I should have read your comment more carefully.

    Tillman (d34303)

  170. you refuted nothing. Your own ranting are not refutations in the real world. Just in your own mind. Keep up the CON.

    No, actually, words mean things.

    The first sentence of the article claims Comey

    certified to Congress that his agency had “reviewed all of the communications” discovered on a personal laptop used by Clinton’s closest aide, Huma Abedin, and her husband, Anthony Weiner.

    That sentence, on which the rest of the article is based, is a lie, as I showed yesterday, and will show again now.

    Comey’s letter to Congress actually said:

    During that process, we reviewed all of the communications that were to or from Hillary Clinton while she was Secretary of State.

    (emphasis added)

    “[A]ll the communications that were to or from Hillary Clinton while she was Secretary of State” was a tiny fraction of the 700K messages discovered on Weiner’s laptop.

    Your article intentionally misquotes Comey to support a false narrative. It’s a lie. I just proved it. The people who wrote the article are liars. They knew what Comey’s letter really said, but they claimed (knowing people like you either wouldn’t know or wouldn’t care that it’s false) he said something different.

    How much more desperate can the Trump’s cultists get?

    Dave (445e97)

  171. 141 & 142… good! As reported by Armstrong & Getty, America’s most entertaining AM radio show. They did mention Reuters polling involvement, so that should’ve been my first clue to dig deeper when time permits…

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  172. Feel free to tell Dumb Blonde jokes now!

    DRJ (15874d)

  173. Klimnik was hired from Mccain international republican institute, I guess they didnt mind the gru language school,

    narciso (d1f714)

  174. “It’s a lie. I just proved it.”

    You proved nothing. The Real Clear Investigations piece is valid, more info and consequences will follow.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  175. You could be correct – all too often when any guy refers to a woman as a blonde, it is not a complement. But if that was only a passing comment and not an insult Dustin, I apologize. I should have read your comment more carefully.

    Tillman (d34303) — 8/24/2018 @ 9:35 am

    No worries. Your heart was in the right place.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  176. I think some DAs, like anyone, can have improper motives or tactics. However, I don’t think it is improper to have a specific target in mind but not announce it.

    DRJ (15874d) — 8/24/2018 @ 9:29 am

    So you don’t have a problem with KGB tactics like former head Lavrentiy Beria, who assured his boss, “Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.”

    https://townhall.com/columnists/bobbarr/2017/06/28/draft-n2347508

    NJRob (b00189)

  177. A young ventriloquist touring Norway puts on a show in a small fishing town. With his dummy on his knee, he starts going through his usual dumb blonde jokes.
    Suddenly, a blonde woman in the fourth row stands up and starts shouting, “I’ve heard enough of your stupid blonde jokes. What makes you think you can stereotype Norwegian blonde women that way? What does the color of a woman’s hair have to do with her worth as a human being? It’s men like you who keep women like me from being respected at work and in the community, and from reaching our full potential as people. It’s people like you that make others think that all blondes are dumb! You and your kind continue to perpetuate discrimination against not only blondes, but women in general, pathetically all in the name of humor!”

    The embarrassed ventriloquist begins to apologize, and the blonde interrupts yelling, “You stay out of this! I’m talking to that little sh*t on your lap.”

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  178. Anyone notice what a bunch of crybabies rinos are? The worst political hacks in the U.S.

    mg (496d21)

  179. Sounds like the delian league:
    https://legalinsurrection.com/2018/08/germany-calls-on-the-eu-to-form-a-counterweight-to-the-u-s/

    Drj has spirited arguments, I suspected she was a redhead,

    narciso (d1f714)

  180. I like blonde jokes, Haiku. Good one.

    DRJ (15874d)

  181. So you don’t have a problem with KGB tactics like former head Lavrentiy Beria, who assured his boss, “Show me the man and I’ll find you the crime.”

    https://townhall.com/columnists/bobbarr/2017/06/28/draft-n2347508

    NJRob (b00189) — 8/24/2018 @ 9:43 am

    This is pretty far from what she said. If a DA or a cop has a specific crime they are trying to investigate, it could really be counterproductive to use zero guile.

    Imagine if I was trying to investigate a series of bike thefts that keep happening at the same place at the same time for a week. I started stopping people for running stop signs on bicycles as close as I can to that spot. One of the people I stop has a warrant for drug paraphernalia, and lo and behold, it turns out the bike has was recently stolen. He goes to jail and the bike thefts stop.

    Had I stood at a bike rack, asking people coming up to me if they wanted to steal a bike, that would not have succeeded at anything. The thief would have simply gone up the street where I can’t see him. The goal isn’t to frame some innocent person for a crime they did not commit, but keeping my cards close to my chest, even in a petty and simple crime like that, is smart.

    At the end of the day, the best way for Trump to not get into trouble is for Trump to obey the laws. Saying ‘but Hillary did it too’ is not a bad point sometimes, but it doesn’t prove anyone’s innocence either. Partisanship is a huge problem, but if Trump or his lawyer did something wrong, the ultimate responsibility lies with him.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  182. NJRob,

    No, I’m sorry if that was unclear. What I am saying is that you can have a specific target in mind if you already have probable cause of wrongdoing by that target. I do not think you can just pick someone you don’t like and go look for a reasons to prosecute.

    DRJ (15874d)

  183. Applauding the Col.

    mg (496d21)

  184. Technically, Haiku, I’m Danish so obviously that joke doesn’t apply to me.

    DRJ (15874d)

  185. I wonder how many nitwit leftwing m00nbat swampers there are out there that think we’d have a President Hillary Clinton given highly unlikely scenario of Trump being removed from office?

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  186. 190… you too, eh?

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  187. Feel free to tell Dumb Blonde jokes now!

    A married couple are relaxing one Saturday afternoon when there’s a knock on the front door. The husband answers and finds a young blonde woman standing there.

    “Hi, I’m looking for work, and was wondering if you have any odd jobs I could do for hire,” she says.

    The man thinks for a moment, and says, “Hmm, you know I’ve been wanting to paint my porch but just can’t seem to find the time. Is that something you think you could do? I’ve got all the paint and supplies out in garage.”

    “Sure, no problem!”

    “And how much would you want for that?”

    The blonde thinks hard for a moment, “I don’t know – how about $20?”

    The man raises an eyebrow, but knows a good deal when he hears one and agrees. After taking her to the garage and showing her where the paint, brushes, etc are, he goes back inside.

    “What was all that about?” his wife asks.

    “Some blonde came to the door and offered to paint the porch for $20, so I accepted.”

    “Twenty dollars? Does she know the porch goes all the way around the house?”

    “Well, she was standing on it when we were talking…do you think she’s stupid?”

    His wife shakes her head and sighs. “Maybe I’ve just been reading too many dumb blonde jokes on the internet…”

    At that moment, there’s another knock on the door. The man answers again, and it’s the blonde.

    “Yes?”

    “I’m finished!”

    The man suddenly begins to feel nervous. “Um…”

    “Yeah, and there was plenty of paint, so I even gave it a second coat. But don’t worry, I won’t charge extra for that!”

    She turns and starts to walk away, but then looks back and says over her shoulder:

    “Oh, and by the way – it’s not a porch, it’s a Lexus!”

    Dave (445e97)

  188. I see tons of people lying to the feds with no consequences, why was he held to account?

    Clinton was impeached for lying under oath, then stripped of his license to practice law, and the taint from his presidency helped GW Bush win. That sounds like a negative outcome to me. I agree that Hillary’s IT person, Combetta, lied to the feds and he got an immunity deal, presumably to catch a bigger fish like Hillary. I’m not sure which of “Muller’s agents” lied to the feds, but Mueller fired Strzok for his anti-Trump pillow-talk tweets, so it seems to me like he was held to account.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  189. The best blonde joke I’ve heard recently was in The Spy Next Door (with Jackie Chan), when the villain’s moll does something that upsets him and he snaps at her: “You haven’t been the same since you dyed your hair blonde!”

    nk (dbc370)

  190. In his wildest wet dream, Putin never dreamed Muellar could cause more harm to the U.S. than himself.

    mg (496d21)

  191. Today I learned that DRJ is blonde.

    Manafort may have been under investigation previously, but it was for his possible ties with Putin, not for fraud.

    </blockquote?
    Dustin, I'm not sure how that could be concluded from my comment (it wasn't DRJ's) but, FTR, I was a toehead as a kid but now it's mostly gray and dark sandy.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  192. Strzok accomplished his mission, opening up crossfire hurricane and sabotaging midyear, horowitz gave him a time out, the gifund me could cover him for a while, he went be prosecuted.

    narciso (d1f714)

  193. Funny jokes, nk and Dave. I never heard that one before, Dave. Maybe it’s because I say porche’.

    DRJ (15874d)

  194. WSJ (paywall) reporting that the CFO of the Trump Organization, Allen Weisselberg, has an immunity deal and has testified to a grand jury about Trump and Cohen’s campaign violations.

    Dave (445e97)

  195. A!lahpundit summarizes it here. (No paywall.) I think Trump is in trouble. If even McGahn is talking to Mueller, that leaves who as Trump’s attorney? Rudy?

    DRJ (15874d)

  196. Dustin, I’m not sure how that could be concluded from my comment (it wasn’t DRJ’s) but, FTR, I was a toehead as a kid but now it’s mostly gray and dark sandy.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2) — 8/24/2018 @ 10:13 am

    Noted.

    :/

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  197. Oops, I read the “blonde” all wrong.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  198. They could probably use some blond jokes today at the White House. Or maybe not, since Trump identifies as blonde.

    DRJ (15874d)

  199. #NotMyBlonde

    Dave (445e97)

  200. Blonde jokes used to be Polish jokes or, in Texas, Aggie jokes.
    — Why do Aggies like smart women?
    — Opposites attract.

    nk (dbc370)

  201. Time Magazine’s latest Trump cover (third in a series…) shows president drowning in Oval Office

    (It doesn’t actually show him drowning, just trying to keep his head above water)

    Dave (445e97)

  202. Klimnik was hired from Mccain international republican institute…

    This doesn’t seem like a good time to smear McCain. He was chairman of the IRI, an organization with the scurrilous mission of “advancing freedom and democracy worldwide” and he wasn’t involved in its day-to-day operations such as hiring people at their Moscow office. Although it would be a pretty good place for Putin spies to try and infiltrate.

    Paul Montagu (9dcfd2)

  203. Trump cancels Pompeo’s trip to North Korea

    Poor Spanky; even Little Rocket Man has let him down!

    Dave (445e97)

  204. 210… Time Magazine… what an iconic monument to relevance and success!

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  205. Oh to be a fly on the diet coke in the Oval Office today. Weisselberg too.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  206. “Department of Justice will not be improperly influenced by political considerations.” Jeff, this is GREAT, what everyone wants, so look into all of the corruption on the “other side” including deleted Emails, Comey lies & leaks, Mueller conflicts, McCabe, Strzok, Page, Ohr…FISA abuse, Christopher Steele & his phony and corrupt Dossier, the Clinton Foundation, illegal surveillance of Trump Campaign, Russian collusion by Dems – and so much more. Open up the papers & documents without redaction? Come on Jeff, you can do it, the country is waiting!

    Donald Trump tweet from this morning.

    Why is Trump such a sniveling coward? Either fire him or STFU, this just continues to show his level of personal weakness and chickenheartedness. Sack up Mr. Babyman.

    Colonel Klink (0e3d41)

  207. what an iconic monument to relevance and success!

    You suppose that’s why Donald Trump had fake issues of the magazine with his picture of the cover framed and posted on the walls of his country clubs?

    Dave (445e97)

  208. I think Sessions should follow Trump’s tweet/order and investigate all questionable actions — emails, Fast & Furious, leaks, FISA abuse — on both sides, wherever it leads.

    DRJ (15874d)

  209. Sack up Mr. Babyman.

    But the cultists swoon over it.

    Dave (445e97)

  210. Although I guess Trump said to only look at the Democrats. So much for narciso’s complaint that only Democrats target their opponents.

    DRJ (15874d)

  211. It is helpful that Trump has repeatedly criticized the investigation of Russian collusion, but today called for an investigation of Russian collusion… by the democrats.

    DRJ is right. There’s nothing wrong with Trump ordering Sessions to investigate these things, and yet something wrong with Trump’s clear point that he only wants his political opponents investigated.

    The context is that the GOP is not impeaching a rather obviously corrupt administration, and therefore it is not fair to blame Trump alone. This really is what the Republican party is all about. Everything we used to complain about Lois Lerner for, is the GOP now. I thought it was wrong for reasons that went beyond sides.

    Worse, there is indeed corruption on the left, and the GOP doing nothing about the problem now will inspire that left in a few years. Instead of using this opportunity of power to reform the problem, they expanded the problem and covered for the problem, and the GOP will surely be unhappy with the results when a democrat is selective and corrupt.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  212. What do people hope to accomplish by rehashing Fast & Furious?

    It was a bungled law enforcement operation. The IG report “found no evidence that the agents responsible for the cases had improper motives.”

    There was a separation of powers squabble over release of documents which the Republicans eventually won in court.

    It seems to me there was no underlying crime to begin with; the Contempt of Congress citation against Holder became moot when the documents were eventually released. Congress has had four years to wrap up oversight investigations.

    What new evidence is there that would lead to a radical shift of the conclusions and justify criminal charges? What is the point of watching reruns of scandals that took place 8-9 years ago (other than to distract attention from Trump’s current and much more nefarious scandals, of course)?

    Dave (445e97)

  213. Dave, Dave, Dave, 4 or 8-year investigations into criminal Clinton/Obama cabals are perfectly acceptable. If you’ve spent the better part of a decade and identified no crimes, then obviously just need some more time.

    Really, Dave, you should know that all investigations should be allowed to finish only when you find wrongdoing.

    Colonel Klink (0e3d41)

  214. Big Rocket Man:

    I have asked Secretary of State Mike Pompeo not to go to North Korea, at this time, because I feel we are not making sufficient progress with respect to the denuclearization of the Korean Peninsula…

    In – con – CEIV – a – ble! Who could have ever imagined such a turn of events!?

    …Additionally, because of our much tougher Trading stance with China, I do not believe they are helping with the process of denuclearization as they once were (despite the UN Sanctions which are in place)…

    My god, it’s almost like … actions have consequences!

    ..Secretary Pompeo looks forward to going to North Korea in the near future, most likely after our Trading relationship with China is resolved. In the meantime I would like to send my warmest regards and respect to Chairman Kim. I look forward to seeing him soon!

    “Please keep humiliating me and my country while you build more bombs and missiles.”

    Dave (445e97)

  215. The view from Pyongyang (language warning)

    Dave (445e97)

  216. Dave,

    I may not be up to speed on the official F&F verdict by Congress. Did they acknowledge that Obama and Holder turned a legitimate, planned Bush operation into a excuse for gun regulations? Did they explain why they made no effort to keep track of the guns and are still finding Fast & Furious assault weapons in Mexican hands? Has anyone ever looked into what happened in the laredo Division? I think all the answers are No.

    DRJ (15874d)

  217. Dave. At first, I did not believe your Trump tweets were real. Honestly, I thought you were being sarcastic in #223.

    noel (96c84f)

  218. “It was a bungled law enforcement operation.”

    My understanding of the law, law enforcement is never allowed to commit or facilitate crimes, they can turn a blind eye within reason.

    Fast n Furious they were facilitating the gun running and their feeble attempt to tract them was nothing but a cover story. The methods they planned to track with would never be effective even under best case scenario.

    How long can one obstruct justice before complying and being OK? Can I wait and pay my taxes four years from now and it be a mute point?

    It’s amazing how people eventing Trump crimes so easily ignore actual real crimes.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  219. “What is the point of watching reruns of scandals that took place 8-9 years ago”

    I think Manafort is asking the same thing.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  220. Every day I read the news and wonder, is this the Onion or reality? What’s next? Trump Revokes Mueller’s Clearance and Gives it to the Honorable Chairman Kim.

    Don’t be surprised.

    noel (96c84f)

  221. What you need to know is Mueller and later Coney, ran interference for the atf for main justice, just as they did with the tea party, there’s even an email with Bruce ohr commenting on it, but return to your two miniymute hate.

    Narciso (d48a56)

  222. UPDATE: Nope, it’s someone with the last name of “Weisselberg.” And he got immunity.

    Wow.

    Patterico (d97543)

  223. And what are you all worried about? Trump told us months ago that North Korea was “no longer a nuclear threat”. Keep calm and let the professionals handle this.

    noel (96c84f)

  224. A criminal regime has no care for the laws:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/KerryPicket/status/1033050060437835777

    Narciso (d48a56)

  225. The reason we bring up stuff like Fast and Furious and the IRS investigations forever is that we freaking investigate them, ample evidence of clear guilt is presented in the news, and no one goes to jail.

    No closure.

    If the case is never closed, if no one says, “Book ’em, Danno,” how do we know it’s done? We don’t.

    Ingot9455 (4db0d9)

  226. Reading the tea leaves here, the scandal is unfolding so badly for Trump, and at the same time he’s made this 180 on North Korea. I wonder if we’ll see some strikes on North Korea to change the headlines and try to bolster support.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  227. What that tells You, is at nest they were unconcerned with certain outcomes.

    Narciso (d48a56)

  228. And if that outcome is hundreds of dead on either side of the border, so be it.

    Narciso (9d05f0)

  229. R.I.P. Robin Leach

    The 80’s are dead, but he was only 76.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  230. And they found more emails with classified info, from her server, but clearly that doesn’t matter.

    Narciso (9d05f0)

  231. DRJ,

    I think the gun regulation controversy is somewhat misguided. There is no evidence it was part of the original rationale or plan for the operation. The first documented mention of regulations came up in an email sent in mid 2010. Conspiracy theories that this was the actual purpose of the program are not supported by evidence as far as I can tell (and they make no sense either).

    I don’t think it’s true that “they made no effort to keep track of the guns”. Normally, suspicious purchasers would have been arrested at or near the border. The rationale for the operation was that this only rounded up easily-replaceable small fish, while leaving the cartels they worked for intact. So they certainly made efforts to keep track of the guns – that was the whole point, but these efforts were incomplete and (from what I can tell) poorly coordinated. Since not all the weapons were recovered, it’s not surprising that they still turn up.

    The gun that killed the agent from Laredo was purchased by a straw buyer in Dallas, where there was no Fast & Furious (or similar) operation.

    Dave (445e97)

  232. I wonder if we’ll see some strikes on North Korea to change the headlines and try to bolster support.

    Strikes? Hell no. He needs friends someplace without an extradition treaty, be it Pyongyang or Moscow.

    Dave (445e97)

  233. McCain choses to end medical treatment; resigned to fate but not his Senate seat.

    Friends, colleagues, associates traveling to AZ.

    Sad.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  234. @243.
    There’s no nuke threat;
    This I know;
    ‘Cause our Captain;
    Tweeted so.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  235. 242… ConDave is in Eric Holder’s corner. Now who would’ve expected that!?!?

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  236. I completely disagree, Dave, but let’s leave it at that. It’s off-topic and we won’t resolve it now.

    DRJ (15874d)

  237. The reason we bring up stuff like Fast and Furious and the IRS investigations forever is that we freaking investigate them, ample evidence of clear guilt is presented in the news, and no one goes to jail.

    Four of the Mexicans involved in the murder of Agent Terry are in prison; one remains at large.

    Other than that, what crime do you believe was committed, and by whom? It was a botched and poorly conceived operation, but the agents who carried it out committed no crimes.

    Dave (445e97)

  238. “UPDATE: Nope, it’s someone with the last name of “Weisselberg.” And he got immunity.

    Wow.“

    You got the name wrong… https://youtu.be/MwHWbsvgQUE

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  239. 242… ConDave is in Eric Holder’s corner. Now who would’ve expected that!?!?

    246 … and Col. Haiku is lying again (I never said a word in defense of Holder). Now who would’ve expected that!?!?

    Dave (445e97)

  240. @247

    Disappointing to spend an hour doing research to respond to your questions, and get a one-sentence dismissal based on nothing, but as you wish.

    Dave (445e97)

  241. Whether it was Dallas or Laredo, there have long been concerns Obama had a Texas Fast & Furious in addition to Phoenix. Bush started Operation Gunrunner — the forerunner to F&F — in Del Rio and it spread to other Texas divisions.

    Further, as my links showed, this blog was one of the first to notice something was happening in Texas. My gut says it was Laredo because the local authorities would be more receptive to Obama, Holder and their DOJ/ATF.

    DRJ (15874d)

  242. Ok. I’m happy to discuss it. I was trying to save your time but I appreciate your effort and response.

    DRJ (15874d)

  243. Nope, it’s someone with the last name of “Weisselberg.”

    An ‘accountable accountant?!?!’ And he’s done TeeVee: [Weisselberg] appeared as a judge on the seventh episode of the second season of ‘The Apprentice.’ – source, wikirapsheet

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  244. guns keep surfacing from the hit on the dea agents, from guzman Loera’s compound, etc etc. interesting detail about holder, he was the one who reduced Rostenkowski’s charges to one count of mail fraud in 94, he was also the attorney of record for purdue pharmaceuticals re oxycodone in 2007.

    narciso (d1f714)

  245. 250… who is alleged to have directed F&F, ConDave? Which Obama cabinet member is most closely associated with F&F, ConDave?

    Eric Holder, mr. My experiment co-discovered Higgs-Boson. You have launched a defense of the chinless wonder, Eric Holder.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  246. First, I think the best reporting on this topic was done by Sharyl Attkisson, and a lot of my information comes from her. I am happy to look at official reports, virtually all of which were done by the Obama Administration or the GOP Congress, but I’m not convinced they give us the whole picture.

    Second, I think this started in the Bush Administration with Operation Wide Receiver, possibly in the Western District of Texas, Del Rio Division, but I can’t provide a link because the links are old. It spread to other districts in Texas and then to Arizona and possibly other border states (link below):

    According to Atkisson, “gunwalking” may not be limited to border towns.

    She said, “We have found allegations of gunwalking in at least 10 cities in five states, so this apparently was not isolated to Arizona.”

    The original goal was to trace the guns and prosecute the smugglers, but it was not always successful. By the time it spread to Arizona it was gun walking, not gun tracing, and that continued on steroids under Obama-Holder’s Fast & Furious.

    DRJ (15874d)

  247. Wide receiver had tracking, fast and furious did not, but the latter fit with a gun registration strategy, that Obama had been working with bill ayers since the 90s. holder as a junior official at main justice, had expoused this stigmatization effort even then,

    narciso (d1f714)

  248. Ok. The Interim Review of Project Gunrunner notes it started as a pilot project in Laredo, Texas, in 2005 or possibly April 2006. (Page 3) The exact start date is unclear.

    DRJ (15874d)

  249. Having fallen on their swords (figuratively) and admitted utter failure of F&F (in Phoenix) is it really plausible that they would violate court orders and conceal something identical happening simultaneously (which, if it existed, could have been exposed at any moment by a single whistleblower, just like F&F was).

    The House Oversight Committee did actually announce they were “revisiting” F&F in June 2017, but with the goals to “identify what the new officials at the Department of Justice can learn from the mistakes made by their predecessors in responding to Congress’s inquiry” and “to understand the effect of the Justice Department’s obstruction on these witnesses.” This doesn’t sound like the stuff that shock headlines are made of.

    The final Oversight Committee report, issued in June 2017, is entitled “Obstruction of Congress by the Department of Justice”, and is based on the full document production that the Obama administration resisted. It does not contain the word “Laredo” and there is no hint of any Texas-based version of F&F.

    Dave (445e97)

  250. All cites are to the Interim Report linked above:

    The original project assigned additional personnel to assist in tracing guns and worked with the Mexican government, including providing it with tracing technology. (Page 3)

    By March 2009, the effort had expanded to 207 agents/personnel tracking guns, 6% of ATF’s force, and there were plans for more agents to be deployed in 5 offices in the next year. (Page 4)

    The planned offices were McAllen, Texas, El Centro, California, Las Cruces, NM, and two towns in Mexico — Tijuana and Ciudad Juarez. There were also plans to expand to Houston, Texas, and Phoenix, Arizona. (Page 5) We know they did expand to Phoenix where the local ATF seems to have embraced its mission wholeheartedly.

    I won’t reprint the report. You get the idea and have a link. IMO there is still a lot we don’t know.

    DRJ (15874d)

  251. I gave you an interim government report that mentions Laredo and several other locations. Either the interim report was woefully wrong or the final report was whitewashed.

    DRJ (15874d)

  252. who is alleged to have directed F&F, ConDave?

    Alleged? Who cares about alleged? Unnamed sources allege that you directed it.

    Let’s talk about who actually directed it. The name of that person is … not Eric Holder.

    Which Obama cabinet member is most closely associated with F&F, ConDave?

    “Most closely associated”? Who cares. Let’s talk about who was actually involved. The Obama cabinet member who was involved in F&F is … none of the above.

    Holder of course was prominent during the adminstration’s efforts at damage control, after the fact.

    You have launched a defense of the chinless wonder, Eric Holder.

    Nope.

    My experiment co-discovered Higgs-Boson

    Dishonest partial quote out of context. I’d ask if you never get tired of lying, but I already know the answer.

    Dave (445e97)

  253. There is a map of the Gunrunner corridors on page 12 of my link, including Tucson-El Centro-Phoenix, Houston-McAllen, and Roswell-Las Cruces-El Paso. There is a timeline of major events from 2005-2010 in Appendex I. This was a big project they were proud of until it went bad.

    DRJ (15874d)

  254. Fast and Furious is one of those efforts that so clearly compromises the big picture that you know they had an ulterior motive. Our law enforcement should want to make us safer, at the end of the day. Giving killers a lot of guns near Americans is obviously a horrible way to do that. Justice is not served merely by putting some of the killers in prison. The guys who set this scheme up had a political motive they were willing to break a few eggs to accomplish.

    Wasn’t one theory that the government was picking winners in cartel conflicts, and using this program to arm them? I seem to recall that theory.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  255. Page 35: Dallas and Phoenix field offices are recommended to develop “deconfliction protocols” (whatever that is) “to manage current and potential jurisdictional overlaps.”

    So Dallas was involved.

    DRJ (15874d)

  256. now this does fit ulb’s cynical tilt meter:

    https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/269094/who-is-julia-salazar

    narciso (d1f714)

  257. the problem with that theory is the guns ended up with both the zetas, (the non favored group) and the Sinaloa cartel,

    narciso (d1f714)

  258. My guess is “deconfliction protocols” means the process of how they don’t let things fall through the cracks between jurisdictions. The ATF’s responses to the Interim Report suggest ATF wasn’t concerned about deconfliction. Maybe they should have been in Arizona and between Dallas and Houston — which may be why the Osorio brothers were lost between Dallas and Laredo, and that may be why Jaime Zapata died.

    DRJ (15874d)

  259. Dave, I’m sorry but I have to go do something. Please feel free to comment/discuss without me, and I will try to get back here later tonight or tomorrow. Thank you for discussing this with me. It’s Texas which I care about a lot, and corruption which I care about but is frustrating.

    DRJ (15874d)

  260. I gave you an interim government report that mentions Laredo and several other locations. Either the interim report was woefully wrong or the final report was whitewashed.

    I see, OK, you’ve taught me something then.

    So Gunrunner was the name for a long-term and project to reduce arms smuggling.

    WR and F&F were local subprojects of Gunrunner. I knew that WR and F&F were similar operations conducted at different times, but didn’t realize they fell under the rubric of a larger program.

    But there is no mention of gun-walking or similar permissive tactics in the Interim Report, suggesting it wasn’t a feature of every local Gunrunner instance. And this is consistent with other descriptions of WR and F&F as experimental methods.

    So while it’s interesting that F&F was “strategically” part of a much broader effort, it doesn’t really provide any evidence of a “Texas F&F”.

    In fact, WR, F&F and the three other (smaller) acknowledged instances of gun-walking were all run out of the Phoenix ATF division.

    Dave (445e97)

  261. 263… here’s the full quotes, ConDave…

    From 4 days ago…

    “Of course, Curie, Noether and Wu were pioneers in a field dominated almost exclusively by men at the time, but today particle physics is approaching gender parity. The leader of my experiment when it co-discovered the Higgs boson was a woman, who is now director-general of the world’s premier particle physics lab (CERN) where the discovery took place.”

    Dave (445e97) http://patterico.co

    From yesterday…

    “Now Colonel, what did we just say about telling the truth? You’re telling fibs again.

    I joined the experiment after it discovered the Higgs boson, thus, I share none of the credit for that discovery (and have never claimed any…)”

    Dave (445e97) — 8/23/2018 @ 4:51 pm

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  262. Texas politicians thought there was a Texas F&F, Dave. Patterico thought there might be, too. You don’t really think all that effort was shut down and abandoned, do you?

    DRJ (15874d)

  263. Brooklyn is just weird now. All I can conclude about that chica.

    urbanleftbehind (cc7e6a)

  264. She may not be a plant, but it did match your scenario.

    Narciso (246203)

  265. Fast and Furious is one of those efforts that so clearly compromises the big picture that you know they had an ulterior motive. Our law enforcement should want to make us safer, at the end of the day. Giving killers a lot of guns near Americans is obviously a horrible way to do that. Justice is not served merely by putting some of the killers in prison. The guys who set this scheme up had a political motive they were willing to break a few eggs to accomplish.

    The origin and history of the practice is documented in the OIG report, and it’s nothing so dramatic.

    From what I’ve read, it was more of a “nose of the camel” thing, where taking possibly reasonable risks with small number of weapons for short periods of time developed into total loss of control over vast numbers. There were also problems of communication and coordination between the ATF and the prosecutors about when arrests should/could be made. They did not have anywhere near the level of coordination and resources necessary to pull it off without losing guns.

    Dave (445e97)

  266. 263… here’s the full quotes, ConDave…

    Thanks for correcting your misleading partial quotation earlier.

    Dave (445e97)

  267. The FBI has false statements from Clinton people all the way up to and including Hillary Clinton and they chose not to prosecute. They granted immunity to several of her crew, asking for nothing in return. Highly selective prosecution.

    Russia Collusion? The only collusion to speak of was by the DNC and Clinton campaign. NeverTrumpers join the Left in that they embarrass easy.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  268. Lol… “The leader of my experiment when it co-discovered the Higgs boson…”

    The captain of my basketball team when it won the NBA championship…

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  269. The same nitwit parsing and such as when you couldn’t admit to not understanding that James Comey, who was fired with cause from the FBI, had absolutely no right to access the documents, after the firing, that pertained to the actions he was fired for. They’d become the sole property of the federal government.

    You so funny, ConDave.

    Colonel Haiku (dab36f)

  270. Texas politicians thought there was a Texas F&F, Dave. Patterico thought there might be, too.

    All based on the same, lone incident that was not gun-walking.

    I guess I can’t prove it to you, but this conspiracy theory has the same flaw as every other one. You need to believe that every agent in every ATF office involved was complicit in the conspiracy, together with some number of people in the associated US attorney’s offices, and that they’ve collectively managed to keep this quiet for close to ten years and through a change of administrations.

    What more, exactly, should or could be done? Where do you think the missing evidence is hiding and how would you go about finding it in the face of such a perfectly constructed and maintained conspiracy?

    You don’t really think all that effort was shut down and abandoned, do you?

    All what effort? The “Gunrunner” umbrella project was an ongoing thing, which appears to have involved traditional interdiction methods everywhere but the Phoenix office.

    Dave (445e97)

  271. No just those at the top, and those who were read in from other agencies like Bruce ohr.

    Narciso (246203)

  272. The captain of my basketball team when it won the NBA championship…

    …is a perfectly fine way for an NBA rookie to a start a sentence. If you were involved, you would say “we” instead of “it”.

    “The president of my country when it fought the Battle of Gettysburg was Abraham Lincoln.”

    Will you now accuse me of claiming to be a Civil War veteran, dolt?

    Dave (445e97)

  273. Collusion with Russia
    Obstruction of justice for firing Comey
    Pulling out of the Paris Clmate Accords
    Immigrant Family Separation
    Helsinki press conference
    Now it’s paying off an ex-girlfriend

    All reasons the leftwing and occasionally their NeverTrump cabin boys have floated as grounds for the impeachment of Donald Trump. It would be sad if it wasn’t so laughable.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  274. “The leader of my experiment when it co-discovered Higgs-Boson…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  275. Michael Cohen’s latest twist was Helsinki was the turning point, but the plea was months before.

    Narciso (3e2620)

  276. Hi Dave. Thanks for waiting for me. You certainly may be correct that this is my wrong-headed conspiracy theory and your analysis is right. Please don’t take it personally that you have failed to convince me because you have presented a reasonable, good faith argument. But I still remain skeptical for three reasons:

    1. The Zapata and Avila families sued the government for Zapata’s death and Avila’s injuries from being ambushed by gang members using a gun sold by a trafficker who was under the surveillance of the Dallas ATF, but the gun was allowed to be trafficked. The scenario fit the F&F profile and that claim was included in the families’ lawsuit. The OIG determined that the Dallas office watched the gun transfer but did nothing to stop it for months, for no reason. That sounds suspiciously like F&F, and Republican leaders in Congress agreed.

    2. F&F is the perfect storm for Obama-Holder. The chance to use a Bush-initiated program to undermine gun dealers, together with increasing the worst Mexican gang violence here and on the border — thereby leading to the possibility of enhanced gun regulations — is something I think they would embrace. Scaling back a program like that (before it hurt them in the public eye) is, to me, simply not credible. They would have expanded it.

    3. There is more we don’t know about F&F, as evidenced by the recent release by the Trump DOJ to Congress of more F&F information. to my kniwledge, the Congressional oversight committee has not released those documents to the public or provided a summary. Maybe there is nothing new. We’ll see.

    DRJ (15874d)

  277. Even “our experiment” could’ve been used and might raise fewer eyebrows, but you just couldn’t go there, could you, ConDave…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  278. There is an email from Bruce ohr in October 2010, referring to the audit of the program

    Narciso (3e2620)

  279. I forgot this about the Zapata case:

    In a statement issued Wednesday, the ATF acknowledged that it “lacked sufficiently robust oversight of policy and certain operations” at the time of the [Zapata-Avila] shooting.

    “Since that time, ATF has implemented substantial enhancements to its policies and has markedly improved leadership, training, communication, accountability and operational oversight,” said spokeswoman Amanda Hils.

    The Justice Department’s inspector general said it wasn’t recommending improvements in the report because recommendations stemming from the Fast and Furious scheme were sufficient.

    Thus, whatever went wrong in the Dallas ATF was remedied by the corrections put in place after F&F. That’s an amazing coincidence if the Zapata-Avila shootings weren’t caused by a F&F gun(s).

    DRJ (15874d)

  280. Good definition of what this supposed Russia Collusion investigation has mutated into: A team of Democrat attorneys prying into the personal lives of anyone associated with Donald Trump and sending some of them to prison

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  281. a bunch of Trump-haters trying to bring him down by any means necessary… whatever the cost to the country or its institutions.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  282. Even “our experiment” could’ve been used and might raise fewer eyebrows, but you just couldn’t go there, could you, ConDave…

    Both constructions have the same meaning (it’s clear that since Fabiola was the leader, that the experiment isn’t mine alone).

    When you first suggested that I discovered the Higgs, I corrected you immediately and without hostility, even though you were trying to insult me at the time. A grownup would have just let it go at that.

    Dave (7f91aa)

  283. My experiment indicates you were a part of that co-discovery

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  284. Stolen valor.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  285. You were wrong just like the aforementioned discussion around Comey, which others also pointed out to you.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  286. Deep learning, dave.

    Narciso (3e2620)

  287. Did you have a role in that Higgs-Boson discovery, Dave?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  288. But his name isn’t really Dave, you showed such fact when it came to hoagie.

    Narciso (3e2620)

  289. Yep, narciso, it most likely isn’t “Dave”. If he was a part of that, it would be quite an accomplishment. I’m willing to play Sam Kinison’s “Back to School” character here just to have him “say it!… SAY IT!!!”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  290. Haiku’s just mad that his hero’s getting beat up by the mean ole DOJ.

    Leviticus (213fd4)

  291. In fairness, the OIG report on the Zapata guns concluded the various government agencies and an AUSA simply failed to do their jobs, which has certainly been known to happen.

    DRJ (15874d)

  292. 302… ha! Don’t waste your time around here, Leviticus. You have a beautiful baby girl and this time in your lives will pass in what will later seem to be the blink of an eye. Spend your time wisely, young man.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  293. Whenever you think it can’t get any weirder…

    Exclusive: Ex-Trump World Tower doorman releases ‘catch-and-kill’ contract about alleged Trump affair

    A former Trump World Tower doorman who says he has knowledge of an alleged affair President Donald Trump had with an ex-housekeeper, which resulted in a child, is now able to talk about a contract he entered with American Media Inc. that had prohibited him from discussing the matter with anyone, according to his attorney.

    (emphasis added)

    This almost sounds too good to be true.

    Like maybe they are putting out a false lead to discredit all the real ones…

    Dave (445e97)

  294. Reason picked this up yesterday:

    Donald Trump Should Stick it to Jeff Sessions and the ‘Deep State’ by Pardoning Reality Winner

    Our hero was indulging his cult with the usual two minutes hate against his Attorney General and Justice Department when he slammed “Jeff” for the horrible miscarriage of justice, err, “justice” that is Reality Winner’s 63 month jail sentence:

    Ex-NSA contractor to spend 63 months in jail over “classified” information. Gee, this is “small potatoes” compared to what Hillary Clinton did! So unfair Jeff, Double Standard.

    Love the scare quotes around “classified”.

    Ms. Winner’s mother saw her unexpected chance, and went for it:

    You have the power to undo this and pardon my daughter Reality Winner!! Please I am asking you for justice.

    It seems just weird enough to happen…

    Dave (445e97)

  295. 292 It worked so well in WI with the John Doe investigations. They wreaked havoc on Conservatives and when busted the consiquences to the liberals was a closed investigation. Not one of them had their life ruined, spent a night in jail, nor do I think even lost their job.

    These abuses of power have zero downside for Liberals. At worst you retire early.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  296. I dunno if Reality can be pardoned — I do my best to simply ignore it but not with much success (heh, just a little Harvey humor there) — but he could follow Obama’s example with the other fruitcake and reduce her sentence to one-fifth of what was imposed. And take away her security clearance.

    nk (dbc370)

  297. The Democrats have announced some rule changes:

    1) Superdelegates cannot vote on the 1st ballot unless the candidate has a majority of the elected delegates.

    2) Candidates for president must declare themselves Democrats, in writing (looking at you Bernie…)

    3) The gender quotas for DNC committees have been expanded to include “gender nonbinary” members.

    Dave (445e97)


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