Patterico's Pontifications


El Chapo Had Fast and Furious Gun

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 7:25 am

While Big Media was distracted by the clown show yesterday, there was the news on Hillary’s emails, the Supreme Court’s agreement to hear a challenge to Obama’s illegal amnesty . . . and this little nugget:

A .50-caliber rifle found at Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman’s hideout in Mexico was funneled through the gun-smuggling investigation known as Fast and Furious, sources confirmed Tuesday to Fox News.

A .50-caliber is a massive rifle that can stop a car or, as it was intended, take down a helicopter.

After the raid on Jan. 8 in the city of Los Mochis that killed five of his men and wounded one Mexican marine, officials found a number of weapons inside the house where Guzman was staying, including the rifle, officials said.

When agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives checked serial numbers of the eight weapons found in his possession, they found one of the two .50-caliber weapons traced back to the ATF program, sources said.

Federal officials told Fox News they are not sure how many of the weapons seized from Guzman’s house actually originated in the U.S. and where they were purchased, but are investigating.

Out of the roughly 2,000 weapons sold through Fast and Furious, 34 were .50-caliber rifles that can take down a helicopter, according to officials.

Someone once said we need to “need to make it harder for people to buy powerful assault weapons.” Will we see any crocodile tears over the people killed by the cartels, with weapons supplied by that same man?

P.S. It’s probably worth noting that a judge yesterday rejected the administration’s bogus “executive privilege” claims over Fast and Furious documents. So there may still be shoes to drop.

38 Responses to “El Chapo Had Fast and Furious Gun”

  1. The idiot in the White House is and always has been little more than a criminal.

    Rev. Barack Hussein Hoagie™ (f4eb27)

  2. Willing to sustain multiple (read: MASS) casualties in their effort to enact gun control. It’s how they roll…

    Colonel Haiku (aacf41)

  3. Obama’s worse than a criminal, he’s betrayed the nation, dashed our hopes, squandered our future, recklessly put the lives of our fighting men in jeopardy, wasted our national treasure, alienated our traditional allies, kowtowed to foreign potentates, made common cause with dictators, undermined the rule of law, made a mockery of representative government, sold guns to Mexican drug cartels, turned his back on Americans under terrorist attack, lied to the parents of our honored dead, and arrogantly used the power of his office to inhibit the political rights of opponents.

    He ought to be locked up, right along side of Hillary Clinton, Eric Holder, Susan Rice, Huma Abedin, Cheryl Mills, Lois Lerner, and every other crook and liar in his corrupt Administration.

    ropelight (f5d5ab)

  4. yes, she did it two years ago as well, the subterfuge remains, look Kate Del Castillo!

    narciso (732bc0)

  5. this is me not flying around drug lord hideouts in my helicopter

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  6. I’m beginning to think Obama did this on purpose. What leftist doesn’t love civil warfare?

    Patricia (5fc097)

  7. just can’t picture it
    El Chapo and Spicolli
    surfin’ tasty waves

    Colonel Haiku (aacf41)

  8. Well, yes, Patricia, Holder did do this on purpose. He tried to frame gun stores for gunrunning to Mexican drug cartels. So he could get stricter gun control laws passed. But the ATF, who actually bought the guns and sold them illegally to the drug dealers, lost track of the guns and the buyers.

    nk (dbc370)

  9. Greetings:

    As usual the press is not quite where it should be about firearms. I don’t know that the 50 caliber (the decimal point is incorrect as a caliber is one-hundredth of an inch) was intended to bring down helicopters. It certainly has the power to be effective against various kinds of vehicles but it’s a large, heavy weapon and hoisting it to shoot at an aerial target would be a challenge. And unlike the similarly calibered M2 machine gun, it pretty much only shoot one bullet at a time. So, no not very accurate.

    But it is nice that the media forgot about Fast and Furious, not to mention Brian Terry, during the aftermath of President Obama’s tearful performance to impose his disarmament will on lawful American citizens while his administration stonewalls the Congress’ investigation.

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  10. If he had bothered to talk to the Mexican authorities, they would have told him how ignorant his premise was. The drug cartels do not buy the bulk of their guns in Texas, New Mexico and Arizona. They buy them from the Mexican army and police, and the armies and police of their southern neighbors.

    nk (dbc370)

  11. Sorry to disagree, 11B40, on both the decimal point and the accuracy of the .50BMG rifles. They’re very well thought of sniper rifles. Chris Kyle was making 2,000 yard shots with one.

    nk (dbc370)

  12. I wish the Democrats’ plan for “gun control” would extend to ISIS, Iran, and the drug cartels.

    Cruz Supporter (102c9a)

  13. Yes, the Barrett is heavy but so was the Garand. Snipers use bipods but it could be used to shoot down a helicopter, especially one that was not directly overhead.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  14. Greetings, nk: ( @ 1/20/2016 @ 8:55 am )

    Well, I understand that the use of the decimal point is more than common, almost universal, practice, but if you do the math I believe you will find it unsound. To the point “.50” is one- half and a caliber is one-hundredth of an inch (.01), so one-half of one-hundredth is one two-hundredth of an inch (.005), not one-half an inch.

    Your argument is correct in that it is primarily a sniper weapon and the range you mention is accomplishable. So, if that helicopeter is sitting on the ground within a mile or so, I’m thinking that the late Mr. Kyle could hit it. But someone else hitting a flying helicopter (which is probably what most people would be thinking) is a bit longer of a long shot.

    My argument had nothing to do with the accuracy of the weapon or the capability of the shooter. The reason that most of the photos one sees of the 50 caliber rifle show it on a bipod or other support is because that is the way it is best utilized.

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  15. It’s perfectly understandable that he’d do this. How else was he going to support his bogus claim in his first three months in office that “More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States”? He had to send ’em guns.

    Dave (in MA) (037445)

  16. They buy them from the Mexican army and police, and the armies and police of their southern neighbors.

    If memory serves, one of the worst Mexican cartels, the “Zetas,” grew out of disgruntled Mexican ex-military and Special Forces personnel.

    I don’t know that the 50 caliber (the decimal point is incorrect as a caliber is one-hundredth of an inch) was intended to bring down helicopters. It certainly has the power to be effective against various kinds of vehicles…

    You’re not kidding. The M2 Browning was equipped in several British and US fighter planes during WWII. It gave a decent account of itself, particularly against Japanese aircraft.

    JP (56a147)

  17. I mean, nk, that the guns got “lost” on purpose.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  18. yes, otherwise they would have done rudimentary tracking as with Fast Receiver,

    narciso (732bc0)

  19. the zetas, also recruited kaibiles, ex guatemalan special forces,

    narciso (732bc0)

  20. El Chapo Had Fast and Furious Gun

    Shouldn’t we admit to ourselves that we’re at the point of asking, who the h3ll didn’t?

    Steve57 (f61b03)

  21. I wonder who the “sources” are for this? IMHO, it’d pretty much have to be either Mexican government (assuming they even have a list of F&F serial numbers) or somebody in ATF. Either way, that might be a more interesting development than the gun itself in that the dam is starting to break.

    As for the executive privilege claim being ruled against, could the Obama administration appeal that based on the judge having not recused himself over conflict of interest? He’s an Obama appointee after all, so there is potential for conflict of interest there. I know that doing so would be counter-intuitive (The government would be essentially saying that he may be biased for us, but ruled against us) but I’m just wondering if this is a viable angle for them to play?

    I’m also betting that there was something worth hiding, otherwise they wouldn’t have made the executive privilege play in the first place.

    Arizona CJ (da673d)

  22. As we learned in Fast and Furious, the Mexican police submit trace information to the US on firearms that are obviously of US make and model. They don’t bother to submit information to the US on firearms that aren’t, so they don’t bother sending us information about every Chinese knock-off AK-47 they find when these firearms are unlikely to have ever passed through the US. This was the big point on the ‘90% lie’ that Hillary used when they were trying to use Fast and Furious to gin up support for gun control – that 90% of the firearms captured in Mexico were ‘traced to the US.’ When it turns out that they only bother submitting 20-30% to the US at all because the rest are obviously not from the US, or don’t have to be traced to the US because they were traced to the Mexican Police or Military first.

    A Barrett .50 is obviously of US make and model, though, being a specialized, powerful, prestige weapon. Expensive, and not too many made. When it shows up, it gets sent for trace.

    luagha (e5bf64)

  23. While I appreciate the commenter’s sentiments, a caliber is not a unit of measure. One caliber is not .01 inch.

    See, for example, “9 mm caliber pistol.” No decimal. Not .09 inches in diameter. Actually, 9 mm is about 0.36 inches in diameter.

    And the decimal, when using inch designations, is necessary. As in, “.30 caliber rifle.”

    Don’t you hate pendatry?

    cm smith (bba36f)

  24. Tonight’s Fox News Special Report showed video of an M2 .50 cal. machinegun while discussing this story. Fox promises better.

    And, as other’s have noted, the news photos show RPGs and 40 mm grenade launchers in the “cache.” Not relevant to the Fast & Furious story, but ironic given the hyperventilating about the power of the rifle.

    cm smith (bba36f)

  25. Don’t you hate pendatry?

    It’s spelled pedantry.

    nk (dbc370)

  26. Greetings, cm smith: ( @ 1/20/2016 @ 5:11 pm )

    Noah Webster disagrees strenuously. As he states: “1. the size of a bullet or shell MEASURED by its diameter. 2. the diameter of the bore of a gun MEASURED in hundredths of inches or in millimeters.”

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  27. Greetings, cm smith: ( @ 1/20/2016 @ 5:11 pm )

    Additionally, and personally, I’ve never heard or read about a firearm referred to a a 9 mm caliber pistol. To my knowledge, it’s referred to as a 9 mm pistol following the Eurometric nonsense or alternatively, and as you suggest a (no decimal point) 36 caliber though the latter might cause some difficulty when trying to buy more ammo. Lastly “.30” inch would be acceptable math-wise but again not very efficient at the ammo counter.

    11B40 (6abb5c)

  28. 1. Doh! Typo.

    2. Caliber is not a unit of measure. Webster’s definition quoted above doesn’t say that it is.

    Try this for fun: naval cannon terminology, such as “5 inch 38 caliber” where caliber refers to the barrel length being 38 times the diameter of the bore.

    cm smith (bba36f)

  29. Jeezus. I thunk if anyone was gonna expain the five inch 38, how to point and train it, it would have me, how to be first shell man, first powderman.

    But along comes you. Thank God.

    Steve57 (f61b03)

  30. Yeah, caliber just means the size of the gun’s bore. It can be expressed in hundredths of an inch, in millimeters, or if you’re in Imperial Russia in “lines” (the Mosin Nagant rifle, a .30-caliber, is a “three-line rifle”). In point of fact, the nominal size, not necessarily what the bore would mike at. A .38 Special is .357in groove to groove, and a 9mm is .356in, for a couple of examples. It’s from the Greek word “kalapous” (modern Greek “kaloupi”) meaning form or mold.

    nk (dbc370)

  31. The five inch gun lasted into the last half of @$$ end of twentieth century because. Just because.

    Steve57 (f61b03)

  32. The 9mm Luger might be .355in and the 9mm Kurz might be .356in — it’s been a while since I cared about this stuff.

    nk (dbc370)

  33. Well. Not just because. The all missile cruiser was an expensive way to send a shot off somebodey’s bow.

    Steve57 (f61b03)

  34. Somebody’s

    Steve57 (f61b03)

  35. 32. …it’s been a while since I cared about this stuff.

    nk (dbc370) — 1/20/2016 @ 8:15 pm

    Yes and it’s starting to show.

    Steve57 (f61b03)

  36. After the raid on Jan. 8 in the city of Los Mochis that killed five of his men and wounded one Mexican marine, officials found a number of weapons inside the house where Guzman was staying, including the rifle, officials said.


    Money from this Mexican Marine is officially no good in any of my establishments.

    Steve57 (f61b03)

  37. The Cartel-Leftist Affair was a clandestine action taken by the Obama administration without the approval of Congress to defeat Second Amendment rights of Americans to act in self-defense, while advancing a refugee crisis in Mexico and other Hispanic nations to disenfranchise American People and marginalize domestic competitors.

    It closely dovetails with the administration’s other anti-native policies promoted and defended by Leftists, including the selective-child “final solution”, the bigoted [class] diversity schemes, and constructed congurences to legally exclude politically unfavorable orientations (i.e. Rainbow Flag initiative or “=” movement).

    n.n (a4faa0)

  38. Don’t you hate pendatry?

    It’s spelled pedantry.

    Now that’s comedy.

    JP (56a147)

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