Patterico's Pontifications

7/24/2018

Trump Prepares $12 Billion Bailout of Farmers Hit by His Super-Easy and Great Trade War

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 9:07 am



The government is good at one thing. It knows how to break your legs, and then hand you a crutch and say, “See if it weren’t for the government, you wouldn’t be able to walk.”Harry Browne

Trump has broken farmers’ legs with his tariffs, and the crutch is going to cost $12 billion:

The U.S. Agriculture Department on Tuesday plans to announce a $12 billion package of emergency aid for farmers caught in the midst of President Trump’s escalating trade war, two people briefed on the plan said, the latest sign that growing tensions between the United States and other countries will not end soon.

Trump ordered Agriculture Secretary Sonny Perdue to prepare a range of options several months ago, amid complaints from farmers that their products faced retaliatory tariffs from China and other countries. The new package of government assistance funds will be announced Tuesday and is expected to go into effect by Labor Day.

The aid package is expected to target soybean farmers, dairy farmers, and pork producers, among others. White House officials hope it will quiet some of the unease from farm groups, but the new plan could revive debates about taxpayer-funded bailouts and the degree to which Trump’s trade strategy is leading to unforeseen costs.

Farm groups have complained that moves by China and other countries in response to Trump’s protectionist trade stance could cost them billions of dollars, spooking Republicans who fear a political and economic blowback to Trump’s approach.

The White House has searched for months for a way to provide emergency assistance to farmers without backing down on Trump’s trade agenda, and the new program will extend roughly $12 billion through three mechanisms run by the Department of Agriculture.

Tariffs are taxes:

tar·iff
ˈterəf
noun
1.
a tax or duty to be paid on a particular class of imports or exports.
synonyms: tax, duty, toll, excise, levy, charge, rate, fee, countervail; price list

What’s more, they represent the government telling you that you cannot voluntarily purchase goods from someone who voluntarily wants to sell them to you, at a price that you both voluntarily agree to.

Here’s how the Economic Genius in Chief feels about these taxes, that interfere with your freedom of choice:

Your choosing to spend money in the way that you choose is “robbery” according to this guy.

But hey. As long as we can bail out the victims, that’s better than just taking his tariff power away. Right? Just ask the Very Courageous Republicans in Congress and they will tell you exactly that, through their inaction.

[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]

169 Responses to “Trump Prepares $12 Billion Bailout of Farmers Hit by His Super-Easy and Great Trade War”

  1. “Tariffs are the greatest!” Spoken like a true Democrat. Also like a true Democrat, handing out federal subsidies to a constituency that has been hit by Democrats’ bad decisions.

    Paul Montagu (57bb34)

  2. It hasn’t happened yet. The suffering of farmers because of retaliatory tariffs from China and other countries. And neither has their bailout. It might happen and it might not happen.

    I don’t think it will. Xi Jinping is not going to enjoy raising food prices in his country. Not the price of lobsters for the nomenklatura and not the price of soy for the proletariat.

    If it does, it’s good that there will be a plan in place. I’m actually surprised, in a pleased way, that Trump is showing such foresight.

    nk (dbc370)

  3. Trumpalo that I am, I agree that Mr. Trump is probably in error on these tariffs.

    In error, that’s all. Not stupid, not evil, and should not be insulted over it, but rather persuaded to change his views.

    And it still may be that Mr. Trump knows what tariffs do and is accepting short term pain for long term gain.

    Fred Z (05d938)

  4. the filthy tranny-trash military wastes this much on toilet seats every month

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  5. it shows how willing these countries are willing to hold on to their privileged position, the tariff was a republican standard for 75 years,

    narciso (d1f714)

  6. Stupid idiot. Just end the tariffs and the trade wars.

    Then, the US can SAVE this $12 billion….rather than spending it on farmers to bail trump out of a problem he – and he alone – has created.

    SmarterthanTrump (439df7)

  7. Here’s how the Economic Genius in Chief feels about these taxes, that interfere with your freedom of choice

    actually what’s implied here is that the products mentioned above – soy, dairy, pork – are all very likely to come down in price for US consumers

    and that adds up to great value for American shoppers trying make the most of their grocery dollar!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  8. I love farmers more than avocado salad with arugula and walnuts in olive oil and balsamic vinegar, but it is also in the farmers’ economic interest that an American factory worker, currently unemployed, has more than $196 a month in food stamps to buy pork chops, cheese and tofu with.

    nk (dbc370)

  9. And Putin smiled…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  10. And why is there systemic deindustralization for 30 years again?

    narciso (d1f714)

  11. Because it is too difficult to find other markets for your commodities? Uncle Sugar to the rescue!

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  12. And why is there systemic deindustralization for 30 years again?

    Because the anarcho-capitsalist Utopia is the first part of Hobbes’s Leviathan. “Maximize your profits, FTW!” (No, it’s not “For The Win”, it’s the other thing.)

    nk (dbc370)

  13. nk, that also would be the 4th G behind the God, Glory, and Gold justification for the Age of Exploration that began in the latter 15th century.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  14. “Trump has broken farmers’ legs with his tariffs”

    Libertarians falling back on ideology (which is often a cover for their own ignorance or their own feelings) rather than doing their homework, as usual.

    Farmers in America have been subsidized in one form or another for a very long time. America didn’t grow rich and powerful from farming, but from manufacturing. And since farming is by definition an activity that you can do literally anywhere in the world, any pure competition is fierce and people who aren’t subsidized for it probably aren’t going to do it without, say, lots of mandatory government purchases to supply the cheap carbs that feed the urban food stamp state.

    They’re also one of the biggest consumers of illegal immigrants and joiners with the Open Borders lobby. Much like Russia, they’re an often-adversary that we still have to deal with and occasionally placate, because they control a vital sector of the economy that we’d still rather have stateside than dependent on overseas purchases from people who we have no jurisdiction to effectively regulate any health and safety standards on.

    Wikipedia is actually very good on the particulars of the near-trillion dollar farm bills that come around every five years or so:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_farm_bill

    Steppe Nomad (b5377a)

  15. Bannonite on Aisle 14!!! Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    urbanleftbehind (5eecdb)

  16. Pop Quiz for Trump Supporters:

    Which is greater, Tariffs or Donald Trump?

    Leviticus (efada1)

  17. Why are there tariffs in a free trade agreement, along with cut outs for favored groups, you did study
    something about economic history, right sprout.

    narciso (d1f714)

  18. Now there was the Mckinley tariff, but that didn’t spark the 1893 depression and Fortney macumber didnt really
    affect the overall circumstances.

    narciso (d1f714)

  19. From Thomas Sowell’s Basic Economics, the section titled “The High-Wage Fallacy” in the chapter on International Trade:

    In a prosperous country such as the United States, a fallacy that sounds very plausible is that American goods cannot compete with goods produced by low-wage workers in poorer countries, some of whom are paid a fraction of what American workers receive. But, plausible as this may sound, both history and economics refute it. Historically, high-wage countries have been exporting to low-wage countries for centuries. […]

    Economically, the key flaw in the high-wage argument is that it confuses wage rates with labor costs – and labor costs with total costs. Wage rates are measured per hour of work. Labor costs are measured per unit of output. Total costs include not only the cost of labor but also the cost of capital, raw materials, transportation, and other things needed to produce output and bring the finished product to market.

    When workers in a prosperous country receive wages twice as high as workers in a poorer country and produce three times the output per hour, then it is the high-wage country which has the lower labor costs per unit of output. […]

    There are, after all, reasons why one country is more prosperous than another, in the first place – and often that reason is that they are more efficient at producing and delivering output, for any number of reasons. […]

    Sowell goes on to demolish the fallacious rationales for tariffs just as he did for rent and price controls, concluding:

    International trade restrictions provide yet another example of the fallacy of composition, the belief that what is true of a part is true of the whole. There is no question that a particular industry or occupation can be benefitted by international trade restrictions. The fallacy is in believing that this means the economy as a whole is benefitted, whether as regards jobs or profits.

    Dave (445e97)

  20. “Bannonite on Aisle 14!!! Not that there’s anything wrong with that.”

    Much like Russia, Steve Bannon is a wild card with his own interests who could be a whole lot more helpful to the US and the world if he quit drinking and knocked it off with the Communist LARPing.

    Steppe Nomad (8323be)

  21. Breaking- Ivanka Trump closes her fashion brand.

    Tariffic.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  22. 15.Bannonite on Aisle 14!!! Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    Flooring.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  23. Thomas Sowell is a great guy who hasn’t factored in things like…

    Subsidized ‘business fads’: ‘Outsource to China and we’ll cover the costs! (also we’ll steal any IP or manufacturing methods you spent decades of sunk costs developing)’

    Lack of skin in the game: ‘Outsourcing Consultants, LLC promises a GREAT return on your investment all for a ONE-TIME FEE that you’ll DEFINITELY make back over a period of only five to ten years (everybody in the company takes a six-figure retirement after hitting every major customer in four years)

    Basic managerial greed and sociopathy: ‘My workers did produce three times the productivity over the years but we’d be THROWING THAT DOWN THE DRAIN if we paid them any more, let’s just push for more immigrants to dilute the market instead! No one’s going to build a NEW factory anyway, did you realize how expensive the original was!’

    Great as maybe a baseline estimate, fails in the observable details. There is no libertarian model that works in all cases because there’s no getting around human decisions.

    Steppe Nomad (c0c314)

  24. 49 years ago today America’s Apollo 11 returned from the moon, safely splashing down in the Pacific. These days the U.S. cheers market share for skateboards.

    “That other America; they did things differently there.” – Dan Rather, CBS News, July, 1989

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  25. At the same time as I spent the previous week arguing with an uncle of mine, who is a dyed in the heart Democrat and proud steel Union Worker, his union and the farmers as well as other blue collar industries that process raw materials or produce manufactured goods for trans-national commerce have been pushing for at least 40 yrs to have a trade war. Now he is facing the prospect of downsizing cuts at the plant they are in because no one is buying steel, since no one is buying washing machines or cars and the US military isn’t using steel like they used to either. These blue collar folks that were GOP holdouts have their trade war now with Trump, but I remember growing up in a proud union US steel family in PA area that as the mills started to shutter in the late 70s and early 80s; were electing Democratic aligned office holders to “save jobs by sticking it to the ECC and Russkies by tariffs” or “don’t the remember what happened last time they went to war with us” sort of comments. The free trade folks never sold the idea well that free trade and low tariffs would do the right thing for folks and the nation. Granted there were mistakes made in the 90s about some of the Asian countries and free trade and we should have formed a trading block as a buttress against the PRC, but chose to punt it away. The hostility after NAFTA haunted too many folks, in my opinion.

    The memes of that Perot and his Reform Party (who had both Trump and Jesse “the fake” Ventura as candidates) with his sucking noise, the WTO riots in Seattle and finally the Obama admin saying their jobs aren’t coming back; have all been helped to polarize folks against free trade. These ideas are growing again in the Democratic foreign policy wing and I would hazard a bet that they would add more tariffs if only to help buy union votes, like what LBJ did with the UAW in ’64 with his Chicken Tax. Also, here is an interesting concept on where the DNC foreign policy may go off the rails via-a-vis tariffs and isolationism.

    Charles (8ffdf1)

  26. The surplus of soybeans was already bankrupting the smaller operations. Brazilian agriculture is the enemy here.

    Leave it to DJT to fashion a solution to broken legs which pays the one who broke the legs to fix the legs! The big boys, ADM, ConAgra and such have grown far more product than needed because they have massive debt to service due to all their acquisitions, and other decisions. Our genius policy of making corn a fuel, at the urgent behest of these commodity barons, has exacerbated this folly.

    Here we go again trying to bend market forces to the will and whim of select elites.

    I genuinely feel for the family farmers and dairymen. Theirs is as honorable a profession as we have. The hard work and massive risk they take each and every year is estimable. Unfortunately, the world has caught up.

    Another huge piece to this problem is the awesome progress made in the genetics of growing food. GMO! GMO! GMO! There is no putting the massive yields genie back in her bottle.

    But, our intrepid DJT is sure gonna try.

    Ed from SFV (6d42fa)

  27. “Why are there tariffs in a free trade agreement[?]”

    – narciso

    Isn’t “fair trade agreement” an oxymoron to begin with?

    Leviticus (efada1)

  28. *”free trade agreement”

    Leviticus (efada1)

  29. @Leviticus

    My understanding from some basic econ classes in college. Is that fair trade agreements, mean that yes there will be tariffs on somethings; however, they will be offset by barriers in other items or even that tariffs would be reduced for the ability to share manufacturing knowledge or even allowing certain number portion of the finished goods to be manufactured in the other country. For example the car. The body might be made in Mexico, the windshield and frame in Canada, but the engine and interiors are made in the US and that it all comes together in a plant in the US.

    Charles (8ffdf1)

  30. *With it being sold at costs or just the addition of S&H to the baseline price in both Canada and Mexico with no other hassles.
    That helps to offset a potentially low cost tariff on say dairy products from Canada and POL imports into the US from Mexico.

    Charles (8ffdf1)

  31. Its all well and good, but show me a real life example of this model you speak of, a comparable scaled economy not a many state like Estonia.

    narciso (d1f714)

  32. In other news:
    https://www.redstate.com/streiff/2018/07/24/breaking.-ninth-circuit-just-made-second-amendment-ruling-will-leave-shaking-head

    So how come we never had salmonella?? Flavored Ritz crackers

    narciso (d1f714)

  33. Never Trumpers’ view on trade is apparently the same as their view on elections; talk a good game, don’t deliver, lose, repeat. They are so use to getting their ass handed to them they seak out failure.

    Take your trade policy and stick it with McCain and Romney, majority of the party isn’t interested.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  34. 26 Ethonal was great for the economy when we were buying $100+ Middle Eastern oil. Until we have sufficient domestic production and processing of oil keeping the ethonal mandate is beneficial to the nation. It will be eliminated when electric cars surpass ICEs.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  35. @26 – We are there. We are an exporter.

    Ed from SFV (6d42fa)

  36. @narciso
    There is no perfect model in this argument that exists in the real world. I know, this sounds like the classic “no real scotsman” fallacy. Since humans are not rational in groups. I believe that even Milton Friedman has made that case in a number of his economic essays. There is no way to get full free trade, we can come close and it would be interesting to see if could actually accomplish it somehow.

    Charles (30cf27)

  37. Cheap at the price to defeat china cheaters. democrat donor class will be after bernie sanders democrats to support free trade.

    wendell (f312f4)

  38. @Nate
    What makes you think that we will eliminate subsidies as fossil fuels are reduced? Hell, we still have sti have subsidies going to coal and POL production that artificially affects current prices. Some of these subsidies date to when Rockefeller was just starting Standard Oil. Heck, the airlines are still getting subsidies of which some are heavily modified versions of the original air mail contract subsidies. You have a better chance of eliminating New Deal and Great Society social nets than eliminating subsidies.

    Charles (30cf27)

  39. StealinTrollin’’ Uriah Heep (apologies to)

    Take him across the water cause that’s a better place to hide
    He don’t know who to vote for, and he’s fightin’ for the other side
    Nono
    Well, he’s fightin’ fires, exposin’ lies in a selective way
    He don’t need no food and no water, Lord, and he workin’ ev’ry day
    Bloggin ‘, jivin’, whiskey, women gonna put him in his grave
    Runnin’, writin’, losin’, cryin’, nothing left to save
    But his site

    Stood on a ridge and stroked his pigeon, thinkin’ the world was his
    He made his break and a big mistake, trollin’ when he shoulda been buyin’
    Bloggin ‘, jivin’, whiskey, women gonna put him in his grave
    Runnin’, writin’, losin’, cryin’, nothing left to save
    But his site, site, site, site, site, site, site, site, site
    So he stood on a ridge and stroked his pigeon, thinkin’ the world was his
    He made his break and a big mistake, trollin’ when he shoulda been buyin’
    He was trollin’ when he shoulda been buyin’
    He was trollin’ when he shoulda been buyin’
    Trollin’ when he shoulda been buyin’
    Trollin’ when he shoulda been buyin’
    Trollin’ when he shoulda been buyin’
    Trollin’ when he shoulda been buyin’
    Trollin’ woo
    Trollin’ hahaha, yeh

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  40. =Haikhrushchev!= Brezhnevheit!

    Red Colonel; Russian troller; colludin’ for Putin.

    Still Helstinki. Honor America; shower.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  41. DCSCA and the other Russia-curious left-liberaltarians seem VERY MAD that we’re keeping the century-old farm subsidies around but no longer actually paying their Commie Party to skim off the top anymore. HOW COULD YOU DO THIS IT’S A SOVIET ECONOMY NOW ARGL BARGL!!!

    Too bad for you! Maybe you should have thought of that before losing the elections! Go find another country to sell that schtick to, I hear Cuba’s good this time of year! I don’t recommend Ukraine, though…even if you convince them that you’re ‘on their side against Russia’, they *might* just remember what happened the last time they allowed Communists to set farm policy.

    Arriverderci and sayonayara to all that.

    Steppe Nomad (7ee4e0)

  42. @41. Vladimir, Vladimir on the wall; who’s the Reddest Steppe of them all?

    Do the Ukraine girls really knock you out? Did you leave the West behind? Do Moscow girls make you sing and shout? Is Georgia’s always on your my my my my my my my my my mind? Were you shown ’round
    snow peaked mountains way down south? Did you visit your daddy’s farm? Did you hear the balalaika’s ringing out? Do you keep your comrades warm? Back in the USSR?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  43. “This is becoming more and more like a Soviet-type of economy here: Commissars deciding who’s going to be granted waivers, commissars in the administration figuring out how they’re going to sprinkle around benefits,” said Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.). “I’m very exasperated. This is serious.”

    FAKE NEWS, RON JOHNSON IS THE COMMIE.

    “What you’re seeing, and what you’re reading, isn’t what’s happening” Donald Trump

    Who’re you going to believe, me or your lying eyes.

    Colonel Klink (afc95f)

  44. “FAKE NEWS, RON JOHNSON IS THE COMMIE.”

    Sorry, poorly read Russian smoothbrains, but had you done your demographic research on America instead of cashing the KGB check and calling it a day, you’d know that Wisconsin and Minnesota are known hives of Historical Swede Socialists and every elected official they send is as much an ideological infiltrator for Garrison Keillor’s execrable ‘Prairie Home Companion values’ as any Maria Butina.

    And Ron Johnson is nothing if not sneaky when it comes to finding ways to import his ARMY OF LABOR TO CRUSH THE KULAK TRAITOR US PROLETARIAT:

    https://www.numbersusa.com/blog/sen-johnson-introduces-massive-guestworker-program-plus-amnesty

    Some say he is an ally on other issues. I say that tired opportunistic jabs at the man who’s being open and honest about what the US farm situation has been like for over a century indicate a wrecker in our midst, who should be kept at arm’s length from actually writing any immigration or tarriff bills.

    Steppe Nomad (62e901)

  45. Your choosing to spend money in the way that you choose is “robbery” according to this guy.

    Yes. that’s exactly what he thinks. Because somebody in the United States is losing that business.

    In reality, of course, as Milton Friedman indicated, it’s the country whose goods and services are being paid for with fiat money that’s being robbed.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  46. Good answer…nahuu..I know you are but what am I… “lalalalalallalalal”

    Colonel Klink (c42db5)

  47. 25. Charles (8ffdf1) — 7/24/2018 @ 12:00 pm

    The memes of that Perot and his Reform Party (who had both Trump and Jesse “the fake” Ventura as candidates)

    Trump announced he was running for the presidential nomination of the Reform Party in 1999 but dropped out in 2000 before apparently he needed to make financial disclosures. He said he dropped out – well, because he couldn’t win – and people like David Duke were in it. Diud jesse Ventura run under the Reform label when he was elected Governor of Minnesota?

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  48. 19.

    . There is no question that a particular industry or occupation can be benefitted by international trade restrictions.

    And maybe not even them. Whirlpool was doing well with the tariff on washing machines but was hurt more by the tariff on steel.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  49. Spain has a real problem with large scale depopulation in its rural areas in part to trade agreements
    as well as other market forces.

    Because of the relative decline of agriculture since the 1960s, Spain’s rural population decreased and many farms disappeared. Spanish agriculture has remained relatively backward by western European standards: capital investment per hectare is about one-fifth the average for the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), and the vast majority of farms are small. Since Spain joined the EEC in 1986, the Spanish agricultural sector has had to respect Europe-wide policies. As a result, many small-scale operations, especially in grape growing and dairying, had to cease.

    There is now an area the size of Belgium that has less than 3 persons per sq. km which is the lowest population density in the EU.
    The remaining population probably need to take Hillary’s advice and learn how to code

    steveg (a9dcab)

  50. Bad trade agreements by the idiot leaders who made them sometimes force new leadership totake drastic measures.

    Trump has said he “loves tariffs” but has said before he loves free economies more, but tariffs and arm twisting renegotiated agreements are the only way to incentivize competitors who tax and tariff our goods to open their markets

    steveg (a9dcab)

  51. @Sammy

    Yes, TinFoil Venturea was a Reform Party elected official as Gov of Minnesota.

    I particularly wanted to mention Trump’s dabble with the Reform Party because he came to it as David Duke was accepted and some of the more unsavory elements from nutsy to Birchers were joining the party. With the question of where is the Reform Party now?

    Charles (30cf27)

  52. Well there was the fuel depletion allowance, that was an incentive to small producers, re ethanol pruitt was reviewing the quotas that’s what marked him for eliminatio by wrist and company,

    narciso (d1f714)

  53. 38 my comment was in reference to the ethanol subsidies through fuel blending. When we move to electric cars and buy less gas the subsidy will reduce unless they redesign it. Eventually when our cars are no longer ICEs there will be no more gas and thus no more blending credits.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  54. 35 our refining capacity isn’t matched to the type of oil we are producing unfortunately. 2017 we imported 10.1 million barrels per day and exported 6.3 million.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  55. 35 sorry wrong reply

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  56. 51. Charles (30cf27) — 7/24/2018 @ 4:00 pm

    With the question of where is the Reform Party now?

    In New York State, Curtis Sliwa is now in charge. But it may not be the real Reform Party.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_Party_of_New_York_State

    The Reform Party of New York State can refer to either of two unrelated political parties in the state of New York. One is a ballot-access qualified party active only in New York State. The other is New York branch of the Reform Party of the United States of America..

    …In 2014, Rob Astorino, the Republican Party’s nominee in that year’s gubernatorial election, petitioned to create the “Stop Common Core Party,” a single-issue ballot line designed to declare opposition to the Common Core State Standards Initiative and act as a counterweight to the Women’s Equality Party, a new party similarly created by Astorino’s Democratic opponent, Andrew Cuomo. Under New York State Law, the Stop Common Core Party would qualify to automatically appear on the ballot for every election through 2018 if it received at least 50,000 votes in the gubernatorial election, a threshold it narrowly achieved despite Astorino’s overall loss.

    On February 17, 2015, Astorino announced he would change the name of the party to the “Reform Party” to broaden its appeal beyond a single issue.[3] The party initially ran into opposition from the Conservative Party of New York State, who balked at allowing another ballot line to cross-endorse its candidates.[4] Marie Smith became the chairperson of the state Reform Party,[5] but she stepped down and Bill C. Merrell of the national Reform Party replaced her as State Chair on January 12, 2016.

    <b The national Reform Party lost control of the state party in September 2016 when Curtis Sliwa and Frank Morano led a hostile takeover of the party, installing Sliwa as chairman. Merrell sued to invalidate this takeover but lost.[6]

    Curtis Sliwa talked about running for Governor but he didn’t run for Governor. (he;d have lost his radip show for one thing, if he did.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  57. It came out in NYT story in 2016 that in 2014, Donald Trump pondered running for Governor but wanted to be handed the nomiation. When it was explained to him there was nobody who could do that, he proposed to the leading candidate, Westchester County Executive Rob Astorino, that he run for Lt. Gov while he (Donald trmp) ran for Governor and said if elected he, Donald Trump would resign about siz months in to run for president so he’d be Governor anyway, but Astorino said that would be fooling teh voters and he woudn’t do it.

    During the 2016 campaign, when Trump said he didn’t know who David Duke was, something he said in 2000 was brought out in which he said he dropped out of the Reform Party race in the year 2000 because people like David Duke were now in the Reform Party.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  58. #38

    Did you actually use the Hitleresque letters ICE…. IN ALL CAPS….?
    For shame, shame. I look forward to when we tear down all those vile signs outside convenience stores that say ICE

    steveg (a9dcab)

  59. Take your trade policy and stick it with McCain and Romney, majority of the party isn’t interested.

    I’ll take McCain and Romney over Ralph Nader, who is the father of your leftist, statist trade policy.

    Dave (445e97)

  60. Key piece, “may be ending” There is almost no chance that this won’t end up in court, and the Supreme Court should allow conservative principles to apply, and states rights be respected instead of deferring to the federal government.

    Colonel Klink (a8b436)

  61. @Nate

    Hahahahahaha. To even think that if we eliminate internal combustion engine it will eliminate any fuel subsidies. First off the US military has invested in using ethanol in some of its aircraft and ships, let alone some of the gas turbines in the tanks and some wheeled vehicles. So there is one user that will still require the product and guarantee it like the sun rises that farmers will resort to the “it’s for national defense reason” in the same way that folks reacted to the initial releases of helium from the National Helium Reserve or the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. Similar to how howls right know about steel needs tariffs for national defense and the print media needs subsidies to survive because democracy and darkness.

    So it is willful naivete assume that midwest congress will let ethanol die. Even when there is plenty of evidence that ethanol is bad for the environment. Even when Obama did it in 2015 it caused a stink.

    Again subsidies are like entitlements for big businesses. They are about as hard to kill as entitlements.

    Charles (2f9e05)

  62. Great as maybe a baseline estimate, fails in the observable details. There is no libertarian model that works in all cases because there’s no getting around human decisions.

    Sowell directly addresses most of the irrelevant details you raise to avoid confronting the facts.

    Free choice by humans is what makes the “libertarian model” (price-coordinated free markets and free trade) superior to all others, where the state imposes its own decisions.

    Thanks to massive tariffs, the US ran a trade surplus during the entire depression-ravaged decade of the 1930s. Clearly something is missing from the moronic “we are the piggy bank that’s being robbed” analysis.

    More Sowell:

    When discussing the historic North American Free Trade Agreement of 1993 (NAFTA), the New York Times said:

    Abundant evidence is emerging that jobs are shifting across borders too rapidly to declare the United States a job winner or job loser from the trade agreement.

    Posing the issue in these terms committed the central fallacy in many discussions of international trade – assuming that one country must be a “loser” if the other country is a “winner”. But international trade is not a zero-sum contest. Both sides must gain or it would make no sense to continue trading. Nor is it necessary for experts or government officials to determine whether both sides are gaining. Most international trade, like most domestic trade, is done by millions of individuals, each of whom can determine whether the item purchased is worth what it cost and is preferable to what is available from others.

    As for jobs, before the NAFTA free-trade agreement among the United States, Canada and Mexico went into effect, there were dire predictions of “a giant sucking sound” as jobs would be sucked out of the United States to Mexico because of Mexico’s lower wage rates. In reality, the number of American jobs increased after the agreement, and the unemployment rate in the United States fell over the next seven years from more than seven percent down to four percent, the lowest level seen in decades. In Canada, the unemployment rate fell from 11 percent to 7 percent over the same seven years.

    Why was what happened so radically different from what was predicted? Let’s go back to square one. What happens when a given country, in isolation, becomes more prosperous? It tends to buy more because it has more to buy with. And what happens when it buys more? There are more jobs created for workers producing the additional goods and services.

    Make that two countries and the principle remains the same. Indeed, make it any number of countries and the principle remains the same. Rising prosperity usually means rising employment.

    There is no fixed number of jobs that countries must fight over. When countries become more prosperous, they all tend to create more jobs.

    It may be the most astonishing and frightening piece of legerdemain in American political history that the Republican party, which formerly stood for free enterprise and individual economic liberty, has transformed, literally overnight, into the party of Krugman-ism and Nader-ism.

    It’s like we’ve emerged from an inter-dimensional wormhole and find ourselves in the universe where Spock has a beard and Sulu likes girls.

    Dave (445e97)

  63. What the dems didn’t repeal smooth Hawley there were more systemic pressures that fdr applied to the body politics, mostly wasting money on make work projects instead of a heavy duty military ramp up.

    Narciso (c9e726)

  64. Dr. Sowell, will that be on the test?

    nk (dbc370)

  65. The economic policies since WWII, whether republican or democrat, have by and large been reality based, back when experience and knowledge fed into policies. Trump’s policies aren’t right, left; its illiterate, ignorant, juvenile, basically based on FEELZ. The worst part of the millennial generation is their belief that their feelings and opinion actually matter, and somehow influences real objective facts, and Trump is simultaneously 71 and 17 years old, with the worst characteristics of each, the oldest tween in the world.

    Colonel Klink (da8a0a)

  66. Really they meant to ship all their industry overseas and leave us with low wage service work, so what would be considered fantastic.

    Narciso (c9e726)

  67. So Traitor Trump borrows billions from Red China to finance farmers w/bailout billions screwed over because of his tariffs on Red China.

    Reaganomics.

    And Putin smiled…

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  68. So many having so much trouble keeping up w Trump’s moves……

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Ffs_OMG/status/1021360251080192000/video/1

    harkin (f58543)

  69. You can’t blame China, they sought a model to maximize their economic power, in so far as they understood capitalism as only in the robber baron vein.

    Narciso (c9e726)

  70. Before 2016 election most were opposed to trump here, many still are here. YOU LOST! Trump won. marx ayn rand and milton freidman were all idealogs. Rich libertarian conservatives who agreed with his free trade policy bought him a nobel prize. Populisim is the future in both partys. Libertarian conservatives couldn’t buy the 2016 republican nomination for the 16 free trade dwarfs and now are running the free taders out of the republican party. good riddance. Donor class bought nomination for hillary by buying off black candidates so black voters who didn’t know bernie sanders would vote for her. Populism is now future of both partys. trump in gop. Sanders, warren and soon alexandra ocasio-cortez for democrats. Libertarian party is for never trumpers go join the dopers. Without dope smokers the libertarian party wouldn’t exist.

    wendell (aa4125)

  71. @68. “…and Trump is simultaneously 71 and 17 years old, with the worst characteristics of each, the oldest tween in the world.”

    Traitor Trump is 72.

    “Klink! You boob!” – General Burkhalter [Leon Askin] ‘Hogan’s Heroes’ CBS TV, 1965-1971

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  72. Careful, nk, you don’t want Dr. Sowell turning Shaun King all of a sudden.

    urbanleftbehind (3837c3)

  73. Excellent news from Georgia. The conservative “outsider” Sec. of State Kemp is destroying the GOPe Lt. Gov. Cagle 70-30 in the runoff to face the FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN FEMALE GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE (tm Georgia media). Cagle is a particular weasel who was caught on tape selling out the folks. Kemp is very likeable and has been steadfast in implementing what are among the toughest voter ID laws in the USA.

    Cagle had the full-throated endorsement of the term-limited GOPe Gov. Deal (what an apt name). The race was tight as could be. Cagle had a huge plurality in the primary back in April, but could not muster a majority. Enter Trump.

    DJT endorsed Kemop a week ago and Pence flew out to make an appearance with Kemp. This was absolutely a referendum on DJT in Georgia. The results are plain enough for even a CA9 jidge to see.

    MAGA wins again. NOBODY saw this coming. Not like this.

    Ed from SFV (6d42fa)

  74. You know what impacted manufacturing most, productivity gains via automation. Somehow you think that tariffs are going to magically bring low skill manufacturing back to the US? That, is a fantasy, mechanical robots are replacing flesh robots all over the globe.

    You have to base economic policy based on how the world is, and how it actually works, today, not on what people think the 1950’s were like, and economic views of the 1920’s.

    Colonel Klink (8cf599)

  75. I must have missed a Trump birthday.

    Colonel Klink (34ed8c)

  76. Seth Mandel
    @SethAMandel
    Democrats aghast at Trump policies and then realizing they’re FDR’s policies is utter perfection.

    harkin (f58543)

  77. And Kemp is going to lose the governorship of GA to a democrat, greeeaat. MAGA and stuff.

    Colonel Klink (34ed8c)

  78. Democrats aghast at Trump policies and then realizing they’re FDR’s policies is utter perfection.

    So what is Republicans swooning over Trump policies without realizing they’re FDR’s policies, then?

    Dave (1c6dec)

  79. I must have missed a Trump birthday.

    The inadequacy of your devotion to our Dear Leader is duly noted.

    You don’t happen to hold any security clearances, do you?

    Dave (1c6dec)

  80. DJT endorsed Kemp a week ago and Pence flew out to make an appearance with Kemp. This was absolutely a referendum on DJT in Georgia. The results are plain enough for even a CA9 judge to see.
    He won among Georgia Republican voters.
    Winning among Georgia voters overall in the general election remains to be seen.

    kishnevi (712fff)

  81. So the republican turnout wee five toes that for miss Abram, what happened they watching a rerun of ncis

    narciso (d1f714)

  82. Dr. Sowell, will that be on the test?

    Read the @#$%ing syllabus.

    (God, the number of times I’ve wanted to say that to a student…) 🙂

    Dave (445e97)

  83. OT but worth a listen, if your’e interested; amazing audio collection released by NASA today; 19,000 hours of the backroom Mission Control tapes from multiple loops recorded during the Apollo 11 flight.

    NASA, University of Texas at Dallas Reveal Apollo 11 Behind-the-Scenes Audio – July 24, 2018

    NASA Collection: https://go.nasa.gov/2yFz8zN

    UT Dallas Collection: https://app.exploreapollo.org/

    “We’re approaching the 50th anniversary of Apollo, and I’m really pleased that this resource is becoming available,” said JSC Director Mark Geyer. “Experience is one of the best teachers, so as we continue our work to expand human exploration of our solar system, go back to the Moon and on to Mars, we stand on the shoulders of the giants who made Apollo happen. These tapes offer a unique glimpse into what it takes to make history and what it will take to make the future.” -nasa.gov

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  84. Kemp was the secretary of state, when jeh dhs was intruding into election systems and blaming the russians

    narciso (d1f714)

  85. narcissymo, its time to learn to coherently express thoughts. This gibberish is tiring.

    Colonel Klink (d9fabc)

  86. In other news. Michael Cohen’s attorney has released a recording of one of the discussions that Trump said never took place, about how to finance the hush-money transactions that Trump said he had no knowledge of, involving one of the women that Trump says he never had an affair with.

    Donald Trump isn’t from “the swamp” – he crawled out of the sewer.

    Dave (445e97)

  87. You mean the guy lanny Davis who sprung a higher level oligarch from an extradition from Vienna, just like podesta was under contract to lobby for Ukraine, yet he broke the deal.

    narciso (d1f714)

  88. This may well be the high-water mark for DJT. When the tariff crap kicks in, and folks wake up to the reality of no wall among other failures, there’s gonna be hell to pay.

    Kemp was by far the more electable GOP candidate. He even had some small coat tails in the Columbus, GA city council race where an old, white guy, retired Colonel had unexpected ease in beating the classic female Dem for a city-wide seat. Cagle just looked like the weasel he really is. I was concerned that Abrams may have won in November if GOP voters had to hold their noses to get out to the polls. Not now. GOP keeps the seat.

    In the Lt. Gov. race, the outsider and ex-military Duncan has a very unexpected lead over the establishment Shafer with 99% of the vote counted. Looks like a possible recount. But, Duncan was not supposed to make it even close. Like Kemp, he made huge strides since the original primary.

    Ed from SFV (6d42fa)

  89. This gibberish is tiring.

    It’s a performance art thing.

    Kind of a “Community Access Cable” attempt to imitate happyfeet.

    Dave (445e97)

  90. Ron Johnson states the obvious about Trump’s economic idiocy:

    “This is becoming more and more like a Soviet-type of economy here: Commissars deciding who’s going to be granted waivers, commissars in the administration figuring out how they’re going to sprinkle around benefits,” said Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Wis.). “I’m very exasperated. This is serious.”

    Allahpundit: “Soviet economy very patriotic, comrade. Self-reliant, like North Korea. All winners, no losers.”

    Dave (445e97)

  91. They keep saying that, the other broke girl won a primary with 14% turnout, when the snowbirds are down in Florida, and she is supposed tu be an avatar of the future.

    So USA canceled colony, didn’t catch this last season after the aliens went scorched earth in Los Angeles.

    narciso (d1f714)

  92. “You know what impacted manufacturing most, productivity gains via automation. Somehow you think that tariffs are going to magically bring low skill manufacturing back to the US? That, is a fantasy, mechanical robots are replacing flesh robots all over the globe.”

    What an utterly obnoxious and disingenuous Cato/CoC narrative. Automation has *nothing* to do with the decision to start offshoring and outsourcing, as a matter of fact, 9 times out of 10 it was done so that cheap Indians could kind of replicate previously American work that you were too cheap to figure out how to automate and too sociopathic to figure out how to keep an American workforce.

    In any case, if robots are going to take over, why is the US not THE global robot manufactory? The answer is always ‘because all other parts of the supply chain and adjacent industries where US workers might have learned these very useful skills were relocated overseas.’

    Free-tradism is a mental disease that leads people to accept the most utterly foolish narratives, conclusions and attitudes against personal experience, the historical record, and their own lying eyes.

    Steppe Nomad (cd73ff)

  93. Much like Russia, they’re an often-adversary that we still have to deal with and occasionally placate… Steppe Nomad (b5377a) — 7/24/2018 @ 10:36 am

    “They’re” = “Farmers of America?”
    “We” = “The State?”

    You sure about this? I do not dispute the facts, just your perception of them.

    felipe (023cc9)

  94. No farmers are still a critical part of the economy, you can’t subside of micro chips or uber rides, but they operate in a cyclical environment, at the mercy of nother nature.

    narciso (d1f714)

  95. That soviet comparison is the stakhanovite equivalent of godwin, who wants to nationalize industry or at best put a chokehold on it.

    narciso (d1f714)

  96. https://www.thedailybeast.com/pro-confederate-birther-introduced-maria-butinas-handler-to-nra-chief?ref=home

    The first American to introduce two of the major players at the heart of a shocking Russian spy scandal has such deep ties to Moscow that he has doubted Barack Obama’s American citizenship in the course of demonstrating his affinity for Vladimir Putin.
    “As long as U.S. is electing foreign-born presidents,” tweeted Tennessee attorney G. Kline Preston IV in 2013, “I propose Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.”
    Two years later, at a rally featuring soon-to-be-President Donald Trump, Preston tweeted: “Donald Trump today in Nashville. He is a friend of Russia.” He wrote the message in Russian.

    Unbelievable. I lived most of my life in Tennessee by the way.

    Tillman (d34303)

  97. What’s more, they represent the government telling you that you cannot voluntarily purchase goods from someone who voluntarily wants to sell them to you, at a price that you both voluntarily agree to.

    Oh my stars and garters! To think that a TAX might be levied on GOODS! The Republic is coming to an end.

    But the above line is complete BS since there is no compulsion on buyer or seller, other than the seller must pay a tax out of his end. He can SELL the goods for whatever he wants, even at a loss. It is fundamentally no different than sales tax except that the tariff-tax is hidden from the buyer.

    Now, if you want to argue that Trump (and the Congress in general) are silly people who don’t understand that water cannot be made to run uphill and that actions have consequences, well, I’d have to bow to that wisdom. But it isn’t unique in the history of government.

    No doubt there is a law that prevents the farmers from marketing their commodities to other countries than China. Because otherwise, by ANY Libertarian principle you could name, they have no cause to claim harm.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  98. Leviticus (efada1) — 7/24/2018 @ 12:05 pm

    A rare Freudian slip, sir. I find it endearing.

    felipe (023cc9)

  99. Guy knows something about Russian law,
    https://www.amazon.com/Books-G-Kline-Preston-IV/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=n%3A283155%2Cp_27%3AG.%20Kline%20Preston%20IV

    I know the daily basilisk is overvalued at a dollar, but they should try harder.

    narciso (d1f714)

  100. If I have a criticism of Trump’s tariffs is that they are incremental. This allows the pain to be managed, but in so managing it you fail to force the issue. This is kind of how we fought VietNam.

    To truly get the attention of the Chinese, we need to tax everything 20%. Finger puzzles to iphones. The Chinese can try to reciprocate, but there isn’t enough that we sell them that can’t be sold elsewhere, or stored to sell later. Shock and awe rather than tit for tat.

    And, of course, you need to know why you are doing it and what you want to get out of it. I’m unconvinced that Trump has a clue, although some of his advisers might (probably not the ones he’s listening to).

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  101. Now mind you a child would know brown ripped off the French fraudsters behind the priore De sion

    https://www.nashvillepost.com/home/article/20401740/bone-lawyer-checkmates-russian-lawsuit

    narciso (d1f714)

  102. Escalation is tricky, but you want to gouge the competitors endurance

    narciso (d1f714)

  103. Narco, I don’t think you have a leg to stand on. You were called out recently and your information was embarrassingly false. But it doesn’t look like that has made you any more cautious about what you say here.

    Tillman (d34303)

  104. A) You are saying outsourcing, you mean offshoring, those are two different things.

    B) Offshoring to India affected close to zero manufacturing jobs in the US. It was primarily call center, and IT operations. Indian ITO businesses are floundering as automation replaces humans. As automation has taken hold the US is actually GAINING technology jobs through repatriation of IT services. Those are not low skill manufacturing, sure its fewer jobs globally, but automation is replacing cheap flesh robots in India with high skill US workers.

    C) Since my primary point was, and is, productivity gains means those manufacturing jobs barely exist, anywhere, and there is zero chance that a new plant is going to be built that isn’t orders of magnitudes more efficient. Innovation, modernization, all exist, the 1950’s aren’t coming back, and most people should at least acknowledge how time works.

    Foxconn is building a display plant in Wisconsin to replace 2 Chinese plants. It will employ 2,600 workers, the two factories in China employ 400k, the output will be the same. Foxconn (Hon Hai Precision Industry) is building 16 new factories in China, using the same automated manufacturing process, that will cut their employee’s from 1.3 million Chinese people to just over 60k. Wisconsin is paying $13 billion to get 2,600 jobs, and another billion for a retrofit of an HQ in Milwaukee, that Foxconn was already going to add at the factory. The positive ROI, in the States own models, won’t happen until 2050. That’s a $5 million per job burden on Wisconsin citizens. Great, lets get more of that, if you bribe them, they will come.

    Look at your logic, CoC, businesses, those evil entities need to be managed by the central government. You seem to want some version of fascistic socialism, just done with less competence and ruthlessness, just call it National Populism, that always works out well.

    Colonel Klink (f13bd0)

  105. oh btw I’m shutting down my fashion brand

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  106. A lawyer born in russia, who speaks fluent Russian, who has specialized in Russian law, who would you contact if you have an issue, a Basque ski instructor.

    narciso (d1f714)

  107. Support your loco grower!

    mg (9e54f8)

  108. Here’s more for you Narco, from CNN. You probably don’t like them either, but they are a reliable source – so deal with it.

    Torshin, the deputy head of Russia’s central bank who served for years as a senator in the Russian parliament, began making inroads into the NRA with the help of Tennessee lawyer G. Kline Preston. Preston, who said he has known Torshin for about a decade, said the Russian wanted to meet the leadership of the NRA, so Preston cold-called then-NRA President David Keene. In other media interviews, Preston said that call took place around 2011.
    “I can certainly say without any reservation that Torshin’s intent was purely about helping with the expansion of gun rights,” Preston said. “Infiltrating to influence the NRA politically is a red herring.”

    But even some within the NRA viewed the partnership warily.

    Emphasis mine.
    https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/27/politics/nra-documents-russian-banker/index.html

    Tillman (d34303)

  109. Here’s from Kline’s mouthhole, but maybe his own twitter account is actually a fake account set up by deep state Russian separatist confederates.

    “As long as U.S. is electing foreign-born presidents,I propose Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin.”

    He did lock his twitter account a couple of hours ago, so that must be deep state tweeters too.

    Colonel Klink (4e27f1)

  110. Also, also, Torshin, a member of the Russian central bank, is putting money in the National Rifle Association, and all he wanted was to promote American gun rights? That is just too stupid on the face of it, it doesn’t even pass the barest of smell tests.

    Colonel Klink (4e27f1)

  111. It’s a joke, I would have said Netanyahu who was actually born here,

    Narciso (cbfddb)

  112. 108 how is paying for jobs that didn’t exist a burden on tax payers. I haven’t read the fine print on Foxxcon but when Tesla and Faraday struck similar deals I hear the same erroneous claims. They got tax credits on future tax liability. Without the newly created tax income there is no credit. The state is getting less new revenue but it’s still an increase. Is getting a raise a burden?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  113. 104 You need to be careful how the tariffs are perceived. China has no problem killing it’s citizens. If we carpet bomb them with tariffs and a million low income Chinese lose their job and a hundred thousand starve to death the perception would cost us the trade war at home and internationally. China would make that sacrifice any day.

    Need to find tariffs that hurt their middle and upper class.

    We should make them divest American assets while our companies are flush with cash, have money to bring home, and interest rates are low.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  114. 73 Libertarian platform now weed and SALT?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  115. I don’t think they are in the mass murder business anymore but China has been fragile since 2015.

    Narciso (cbfddb)

  116. The government is good at one thing. It knows how to break your legs, and then hand you a crutch and say, “See if it weren’t for the government, you wouldn’t be able to walk.”

    This opening quote from the original post recalls one of my favorite Demotivators(tm) from despair.com:

    Government: If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions.

    Dave (445e97)

  117. If you hear im from the govt. and I’m here to help, unfortunately, you’ll need a lawyer.

    mg (9e54f8)

  118. Trump and populism or alexandra ocasio-cortez and the re-education camp you choose. Thomas sowels will be spending the money rich conservatives gave him to hustle free trade somewhere he can pay off to hide him.

    wendell (3effa5)

  119. You are a vile creature indeed, “wendell”, slandering the character of a man like Thomas Sowell.

    Dave (445e97)

  120. Bath SALTs, perhaps, Nate, which will make it a no-go in Florida, where people have been eaten to death by bums strung out on them.

    urbanleftbehind (3837c3)

  121. The stubborn Cagle voters will be the deciders. The accelerated self immolation tic must be in the peanut residue or the red clay.

    urbanleftbehind (3837c3)

  122. Oh my stars and garters! To think that a TAX might be levied on GOODS! The Republic is coming to an end.

    If it were merely a sales tax it wouldn’t be such a directed effort to control our free trade. The government is picking winners and losers. The bureaucracy is gaining tremendous power over economic decisions, and the opportunity for corruption is expanding from those decisions. It’s almost as though Trump set out to be a crook or something, but we know that can’t be the case because democrats are bad or something.

    Dustin (ba94b2)

  123. @125 – As Abrams is outed as a Maxine-style lib, GOP voters will come out in droves. There is no obvious problem with Kemp as there was with Cagle.

    Ed from SFV (6d42fa)

  124. Well, he’s got to avoid macaca, I guess it’s a blessing the final matchup “began” 2 months later, less tape, less exposure. I imagine there’s a lot of black ATL glitterati that votes R in secret like the Austin liberal glitterati as well.

    urbanleftbehind (3837c3)

  125. The government is picking winners and losers.

    How so? Is the tariff saying “We levy a tax on goods from Foxconn”? Or Ford? Or is it levying a tax on, say, solar panels in general? It may be tilting the playing field towards some domestic providers, but it isn’t picking and choosing among them. Nor is it clear it is preventing the Chinese from competing in markets, just not with the same advantages (e.g. artificial exchange rates, state subsidies, the absence of environmental laws) that they previously had.

    As far as the laissez-faire free-trade regime you harken to, it hasn’t existed, well, ever. Not even in the Gilded Age when high tariff barriers “protected” all that economic freedom. At best we have “freer trade agreements” where we reduce barriers, but they are still there.

    As far as Trump and his people, well, they aren’t the ones I would choose to fight any war, let alone this one. As far as trade wars, I think that the time was ripe for throwing down with China, but the attacks on allies was pretty stupid, as were the steel tariffs and similar.

    I would say that any idiot knows not to fight a multi-front war, but apparently that’s untrue.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  126. 129 When would be a good time to take on our allies? We have the best economy we have had in decades. Huge trade deficit. Mandate from the people who elected him to do something. Optics are all in our favor on macro view.

    Specific to some allies, EU and UK are dealing with Brexit, gives us an advantage and limits what they can claim when fighting each other.

    Mexico and the border issues, why do we give preferred trade status to a neighbor that invades us with crime, drugs, and illegal migration?

    German economy is soaring, why are they neglecting their defense(NATO) and funding Russia?

    Ideally war is to be avoided but when necessary fight them when it is best for you, now is a great time to go on the attack. Do you want a trade war in the middle of a recession or trying to beat concessions out of a trade partner while they are in one?

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  127. Cagle was right. In this GOP, the race came down to “who had the biggest gun, who had the biggest truck and who could be the craziest,” and Kemp fit the bill.

    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4)

  128. Trump Secures Concessions from Europeans to Avoid Trade War, EU Official Says
    Europeans agree on lowering industrial tariffs, work on more U.S. LNG exports

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/ahead-of-eu-meeting-trump-rails-at-domestic-critics-1532524795

    harkin (f58543)

  129. “If it were merely a sales tax it wouldn’t be such a directed effort to control our free trade.”

    “OUR” free trade…uh, ‘freedom of trade’ is guaranteed precisely nowhere in the constitution, though it did seem to show up as a constant grievance for slaveowners in the Old South who were mad they couldn’t get bargain basement prices on physical as well as human capital (a victory for Lincoln is a victory for Spanish colonies, keep America competitive!)

    “The government is picking winners and losers.”

    The government is deciding what conduct is permissible and impermissible in the game, resulting in people who majored in now impermissible tactics likely to ‘lose’, so yes.

    “The bureaucracy is gaining tremendous power over economic decisions, and the opportunity for corruption is expanding from those decisions.”

    You JUST NOW noticed this when it came to a return to historic norms on international trade, but not on, say, banning conservatives or conservative-friendly individuals from public media platforms and payment processors? Are you SURE you’re a lifelong All-American Republican conservative, or are you more of a mercenary businessman who quotes friendly Republican doctrine when it suits you and your company personally?

    “It’s almost as though Trump set out to be a crook or something, but we know that can’t be the case because democrats are bad or something.”

    Yes, when a crook makes it as a billionaire, has everything he ever wants or needs, and could easily take oodles of hush money and a drawdown of media scrutiny to support the ruling regime, the first thing he does is RUN FOR PRESIDENT.

    Steppe Nomad (764db6)

  130. President can be on a criminals bucket list too… but I really don’t see Trump as a criminal.

    Oh. And Trump should abolish Obamacare ASAP.
    The $12B he want(ed)* for farmers etc is chump change compared to what Obama did to our healthcare costs

    *not sure how this EU trade adjustment will effect that $12B

    steveg (a9dcab)

  131. I don’t know if this trade deal with the EU is good, bad, or indifferent, but I do look forward to seeing the left and the neverTrumpers spin it furiously as a huge loss for Trump and for America.
    Was it a treasonous agreement? We will soon hear.

    So far none of this kerfuffle has cost us much more than jet fuel for flights around the globe, some overpriced hotels, meals, and the oxygen used by flapping mouths.

    steveg (a9dcab)

  132. LOOK WHO WAS RIGHT AGAIN:

    “CNBC Now
    ‏Verified account @CNBCnow

    BREAKING: Trump secures concessions from EU to avoid trade war; EU agrees to import more soybeans, lower industrial tariffs, work more on LNG exports – Dow Jones

    Dow spikes to session high after the DJ report.”

    Steppe Nomad (1ee7ff)

  133. “and the oxygen used by flapping mouths.”

    Another alternate energy source? Just think of the hot wind generated!

    Colonel Haiku (207293)

  134. In an unexpected press conference, the two leaders said the European Union would buy more soybeans and liquefied natural gas from the United States as the U.S. and E.U. work to eliminate tariffs on industrial goods. Existing tariff plans would be put on hold, they said, while the steel and aluminum tariffs that Trump imposed earlier this year would be reexamined.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/wirereuters/trump-announces-agreement-with-europe-to-work-toward-zero-tariffs/2018/07/25/ed3d9e96-9043-11e8-ae59-01880eac5f1d_video.html

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  135. However unorthodox and stumbling it may seem, Trump is getting results. Results that his opponents say will never come.

    1. Tax cuts followed by hiring and growth, after a lost decade of recession and mediocrity.

    Democrats then: “It will just line the pockets of the bosses.”
    Democrats now: “It’s the inevitable consequence of Obama’s careful stewardship.”

    2. Tariffs followed by new, better deals.

    Democrats then: “It will just harm Americans. Let free markets work!”
    Democrats soon: “They needed to give Crazy Don something to save face with, or we’d all go broke.”

    3. Fracking/Drill Baby Drill, leading to the US becoming an net oil exporter soon.

    Democrats then: “It will cause the earth itself to crumble and die”
    Democrats now: “I will cause the earth itself to burn up and die.”

    And the more the Democrats squeeze, the more voters will slip through their fingers. Trump is making all the right enemies.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  136. *I It

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  137. @140 Kevin M

    1. Tax cuts followed by hiring and growth, after a lost decade of recession and mediocrity.

    Democrats then: “It will just line the pockets of the bosses.”
    Democrats now: “It’s the inevitable consequence of Obama’s careful stewardship.”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-07-18/trump-s-tax-cut-hasn-t-done-anything-for-workers

    Trump’s Tax Cut Hasn’t Done Anything for Workers

    “Huge, immediate gains for wealthy shareholders combined with tepid increases in business investment and decreases in real wages don’t paint a flattering picture of the tax cut’s impact so far.”

    Davethulhu (fab944)

  138. Trump is viciously trolling the never Trumpers. He waits till they blast his actions then yhuge deals announced, just win after win.

    Nate Ogden (223c65)

  139. Trump can claim China did this, but he’s in the middleof this trade war now.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  140. Some EU trade news

    Declaring a “new phase” in U.S. relations with the European Union, Pres. Trump says at a White House news conference following his meeting with European Commission Pres. Juncker that the U.S. and European Union agreed to work toward “zero tariffs” and “zero subsidies on non-auto industrial goods.”

    Trump says the U.S. and EU will “resolve” steel and aluminum and “retaliatory tariffs,” the EU agrees to buy more U.S. soybeans “almost immediately” and “wants to import” more liquefied natural gas from the U.S.

    Equities exposed to the European region spiked near the close of today’s trading as first reports appeared suggesting European concessions on trade.

    felipe (023cc9)

  141. Donald Trump publicly announces his fixin’ to start to prepare for some trade stuff, and soybeans.

    Colonel Klink (87df55)

  142. soy beans are so good you can make tofu or feed them to a moo

    i think the Europeans will be very happy with their new Eurobeans

    they’ll smile and say ha! we have choice new beans all up in it now booba!

    thank you President Trump thank you thank you

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  143. Babble babble flabble.

    Colonel Klink (b4b853)

  144. is not babble booble the soybeans are the number one product what’s an issue in the mid-terms and this goes a long way to making the case about the dividends what come along with the good steady leadership of our president, President Donald Trump!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  145. Colonel Klink proves to be as adept at admitting he’s wrong as he was running a prison camp.

    Steppe Nomad (2e699b)

  146. General burkhalter is most annoyed,

    narciso (d1f714)

  147. Klink appears to be Biff who appeared to be some other mook…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  148. Could be Perry, but if so, they’ve changed his meds.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  149. Trump, E.U. announce deal to avert escalation of trade tensions
    It was an agreement to negotiate an agreement. Some might call it a nothingburger.

    Paul Montagu (57bb34)

  150. Keep fighting teh evil, Paul!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  151. Nothingburger’s are great. They fill you up completely, but with absolutely no nutritional value.

    Come on, substance free policies are the Trump administration specialty.

    Colonel Klink (2242ea)

  152. Wait. Where are we getting those extra soybeans from? Oh, yeah. They used to go to China. Fun thought: after China lifts the tariff on soybeans, they might find that their old suppliers have moved on and that those soybeans are still extra expensive.

    Kevin M (5d3e49)

  153. “Fixin’ to start to prepare…”

    How’s that diet goin’ Traitor Trump?!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  154. Come-On-A-My House pleads Traitor Trump. Nyet sez Vlad.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mriXncI96lw

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  155. Not to mention major hofsteder of the Gestapo.

    narciso (d1f714)

  156. It’s like a reordering of the universe… all these leftist and subspecies NeverTrumpers have made Trump the center of their universe and appear to hang on his every word.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  157. Break out your show tunes, ASPCA. You know you are chomping at the bit.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  158. Michigan j frog is quite a hoot,

    Narciso (7c653c)

  159. A sense of the absurd is not only helpful it’s necessary:

    https://youtu.be/Bh376GzsSKI

    Narciso (7c653c)

  160. @162. Haikolluder! Geshundikoff!

    Little Nikita; still Helstinki. Switch on your Philco, Red Colonel.
    Then honor America: shower.

    Show the Red Colonel how it’s done, kids…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1F0lBnsnkE

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  161. 157 20% more expensive and Brazil doesn’t have near the capacity to fill the demand.

    “Suderman said Brazilian soybean was about 20 per cent more expensive than the US product and Chinese processors would have to decide whether to pass the extra cost on to consumers.

    “They will have to either absorb the increased cost, pass them along to the livestock producers utilising the soy meal and food companies utilising the soy oil, be subsidised by the government, or some combination. In the end, the Chinese crush and livestock industries are paying a steep price,” he said.”

    Nate Ogden (223c65)


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