Asian-Americans File Complaint Against Harvard
[guest post by Dana]
Speaking volumes. 2015 Grads Of Columbia University:
Speaking of Asians and universities, an Asian-American group is accusing Harvard of discrimination :
In a complaint filed with the U.S. Department of Education and the Justice Department on Friday, the coalition of more than 60 groups claims that the university unfairly holds Asian-American applicants to a higher standard. Asian-Americans have the lowest acceptance rates at Harvard University and other elite universities, the complaint alleges, despite having some of the highest test scores and overall academic achievement.
“People from all over the world came to America for equal opportunities. We are trying to bring those principles back to America,” said Yukong Zhao, a Chinese-American author who helped organize the coalition. “This isn’t just about discrimination and race. It is about justice for everyone, including (people of) all races, and social and economic statuses.”
Harvard denies the accusations, claiming to be “fully compliant with the law.”
In an effort to maintain a diverse student body, the university uses a “holistic” approach to admissions, which includes reviewing the race of the applicant.
It is this “holistic” approach that is at the heart of the complaint:
In this approach, Harvard says it reviews each applicant’s background and personal characteristics, including — when relevant — the applicant’s race or ethnicity, as one of the many factors in its admissions process.
Chunyan Li, an assistant professor of accounting at Pace University who helped recruit groups to join last the complaint, said the university’s emphasis on race in the application process is unfair.
“This approach is subjective,” Li said. “If it is all implemented objectively, than how come all Asians on average have such higher scores? What’s the fairness in this? If (Harvard) pushes for (a) holistic approach, then make it fair. If you kept emphasizing race, then there is no way out.”
As the complaint moves forward, Harvard is standing by its approach to admissions:
“We will vigorously defend the right of Harvard, and other universities, to continue to seek the educational benefits that come from a class that is diverse on multiple dimensions,”
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (86e864) — 5/21/2015 @ 9:23 pmIf I were a judge – and I think we all can agree that would be a marvelous idea – I would ask Harvard’s lawyer exactly when an applicant’s race is “relevant” other than to make sure “we have enough of these and not too many of those.” Which would be a direct admission of a violation of law.
Estragon (ada867) — 5/21/2015 @ 10:22 pmMore dings than a Chevy in a hailstorm.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 5/21/2015 @ 10:24 pmeast coast lieberal WASPs are racist…
#Unexpectedly!
redc1c4 (b340a6) — 5/21/2015 @ 10:44 pm“The best way to end racial discrimination is . . . to STOP discriminating on the basis of race.”
(Wasn’t it Justice Roberts who said that?)
BUT OF COURSE I KNOW: there’s SOOOOO much lovely government money (sigh, *taxpayer* money) tied up in the effort to “equalize” certain target populations in regard to the majority population. The populations WOULD be much more equalized if we could persuade the “victim class” to stop clutching their victimhood to their bosoms, and start teaching their youngsters proficiency in the Three R’s (with a dollop of common civility thrown in).
[I understand that this statement incriminates me as a full-blown raycissst. I would apologize, but — nah. I’m old, I’m tired, and dammit, that IS the solution.]
A_Nonny_Mouse (ed08d2) — 5/21/2015 @ 11:05 pmI think if they found out about the rape culture, jazz hands, safe spaces, trigger warnings, privilege and power, etc., maybe they’d thank Harvard for discriminating against their kid.
Steve57 (fb1453) — 5/21/2015 @ 11:16 pmOh, and extra credit for carrying around your rape mattress for four years.
That’s big at all the Ivy League schools.
Steve57 (fb1453) — 5/21/2015 @ 11:17 pmI forgot the microaggressions. I always forget the microaggressions.
Maybe that’s because they’re so micro.
Oh, SORRY! I hope I didn’t offend the macro challenged.
Steve57 (fb1453) — 5/21/2015 @ 11:22 pmharvard burnt in 15 minutes.
mg (31009b) — 5/22/2015 @ 1:54 amif asians are having trouble getting into harvard i will for sure worry about this later cause I’m very concerned about this kind of
happyfeet (831175) — 5/22/2015 @ 3:42 am“WE will vigorously defend the right of Harvard, and other universities, to continue to racially discriminate against anyone they like, for any holistic reason, especially chinks, until such time as a yellow Al Sharpton rises to sue us into submission. Diversity being more important than education at Harvard, screw’em.”
You could call me a racist too A_Nonny_Mouse but being married to a South Korean and having a business in same that would be rather tough.
Hoagie (f4eb27) — 5/22/2015 @ 3:59 amIt is racist to have read the text, done the homework and taken the quizzes at the back B4 classes begins.
Better to pass via appeal to the Dean.
DNF (208255) — 5/22/2015 @ 4:43 amSome people have more holistics than others.
Richard Aubrey (f6d8de) — 5/22/2015 @ 5:06 am==Harvard claiming to be “fully compliant with the law”==
LOL “the law” says Elizabeth Warren. Those dummies should have claimed to be Cherokee. Yeah, that’s the ticket!I
elissa (e05f41) — 5/22/2015 @ 5:51 amI’m sure it will be entertaining watching the Liberal Intellectual Harvard worshipers do the shuck-and-jive in defending against this. Affirmative action is clear and obvious racism; the foundational Liberal belief that certain groups of people are sub-human and cannot possibly be expected to compete on a level playing field with their Betters. OTOH, my Father was offered scholarships at Harvard and Princeton in an early Affirmative action program, and benefitted thereby. But he was Class of ’45 (Princeton), and in those days “Affirmative Action” meant that the Ivy League was recruiting from the poor benighted primitives who lived on the far side of the Allegheny Mountains.
C. S. P. Schofield (a196fd) — 5/22/2015 @ 5:55 amJust to be fair you need to post the names of those who were awarded MAs in Women’s Studies
mkstach (aa2f8a) — 5/22/2015 @ 6:27 amThat right there explains everything you need to know why the USoA is going down the tubes.
Rodney King's Spirit (b31520) — 5/22/2015 @ 6:39 amIt’s interesting to see that the Asian quota at Harvard appears to be slightly lower than the Jewish quote of the 1920s and 1930s. When I went to Harvard (1983-7) they were apologetic about that Jewish quota. I wonder what their position is on that now.
David Pittelli (b77425) — 5/22/2015 @ 6:43 am“Oh, and extra credit for carrying around your rape mattress for four years.”
There is something that I have noticed for a while and haven’t said anything about for reasons that will be apparent. This year, I have one Caucasian student in my medical school group. The rest are Asian and Indian. Look at a list of physicians at your local hospital. Then look at the “Social Justice Warriors.” Most of the latter are white or black. The doctors’ names should give a clue to what is happening. The last American black medical student I had was ten years ago and he had played water polo in college, hardly the sport one associates with blackness.
The college students who are seeking science education are Asian and Indian. There are black students at USC medical school but most that I have met are foreign born.
Something bad is happening to our higher education system in this country but it is beginning at the elementary school level.
I see kids entering the US military, which come from another social setting but they are the kids who have pretty clean records. A lot of them are Asian, many from China and Korea. The majority, I would guess, are Hispanic but that may just be Los Angeles. Caucasians are about a third, very roughly. It’s interesting to see these two demographics as I do.
I think it is our future.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 5/22/2015 @ 7:10 amMike K., I observed a similar thing when attending a Purdue graduation ceremony a couple years ago. There were lots of American heartland bachelors degree recipients in Engineering– mostly Caucasian but some Blacks as well–and some, but surprisingly few women. But the Masters and PHDs in Engineering all were almost exclusively ethnically Asian or south Asian. More power to them. It appeared from the program notes that most were foreign students as opposed to having grown up in the United States of immigrant parents.
elissa (e0723f) — 5/22/2015 @ 7:29 amYou see the same sort of ethnic distribution in the lists of people who pass the actuarial exams.
The physics department I was part of, in grad school, had an unofficial policy of trying to hold the Chinese percentage below 30 – 50.
Gabriel Hanna (64d4e1) — 5/22/2015 @ 7:38 amBut the Masters and PHDs in Engineering all were almost exclusively ethnically Asian or south Asian.
i think a lot of this is cause some of these peoples, they get degrees from schools in asialand
mysterious and enigmatic schools nobody has heard of out side of asialand
so they get a masters here in failmerica at a name-brand school
a lot of times even in fields where you really don’t need a masters to command a nice lil starting salary
happyfeet (a037ad) — 5/22/2015 @ 7:46 am*outside* i mean
happyfeet (a037ad) — 5/22/2015 @ 7:47 amAs far as I know even in this day and age you don’t get an advanced Engineering degree from Purdue without earning it, or without coming in with the requisite knowledge and credits to do the work. So, I guess I don’t get what your point is, feets.
elissa (e0723f) — 5/22/2015 @ 7:54 amperhaps i was unclear
a lot of people do their undergrad in their homelands then come to failmerica just to get masters degrees from a “good” school
it enhances their marketability both here in failmerica and at home is why
happyfeet (a037ad) — 5/22/2015 @ 7:58 amI agree with Mike K., it is our future and it is now. I have no problem with majority minority medical school classes, as long as the students and future doctors are as competent as the ones they replaced.
Patricia (5fc097) — 5/22/2015 @ 8:07 amIs the internment camp for harvard graduates full?
mg (31009b) — 5/22/2015 @ 8:07 amAnd that explains the dearth of “‘Mericans” graduating in these advanced science programs, how, feets?
elissa (e0723f) — 5/22/2015 @ 8:07 amoh my goodness this is difficult for me
be patient
ok
you said this
But the Masters and PHDs in Engineering all were almost exclusively ethnically Asian or south Asian.
and so my comment was in reference to why it might be that asians are over-represented in masters programs
cause of people who get undergrad degrees from good schools head into the workforce, whereas a lot of asians get their undergrad stuff at places like Ho Chi Minh Glorious University National Scientific, which is a great school, but it a lot behooves them to get a masters from like a stateside school what has cool t-shirts and branding as well as a basketball team and such
if you would like to know more please to read my book Why Asian People Are All Up Into Masters Degrees and Stuff (2012)
happyfeet (a037ad) — 5/22/2015 @ 8:40 amI need more popcorn to watch the left eat its own.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/22/2015 @ 8:49 am==if you would like to know more please to read my book Why Asian People Are All Up Into Masters Degrees and Stuff (2012)==
Also, if you would like to know more please to read MY book “Why American Students Increasingly Waste Their Parents’ Money or Go Into Ridiculous Debt To Get Useless Advanced Degrees in Gender Studies, Urban Planning, Social Justice, Acting, and Stuff”(2014)
elissa (e0723f) — 5/22/2015 @ 8:56 amI am starting to wonder what the optimum age is for to have lived and prospered in the Golden Age of America and/but with decent odds to die off (naturally) before things completely fall apart. Anybody have any guesses or thoughts on this math problem? It might make for interesting over drinks discussion, I think.
elissa (e0723f) — 5/22/2015 @ 9:05 amI bet that there is no school of “Asian Studies” at any of those colleges.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 5/22/2015 @ 9:22 amAnd apparently those AA students with the 70% percentile SATs who get into Harvard aren’t the ones you might admit — from crappy ghetto schools — but the sons and daughters of wealthy suburbanites, who might be willing to donate a bit to grease the skids.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 5/22/2015 @ 9:26 am#33: you would be rong…
8-:
redc1c4 (269d8e) — 5/22/2015 @ 9:30 amWhen I was going to university in the 70’s, there was a big push by certain parties to get ethnic studies and a black student center. This included folks who liked to phone in bomb threats at 3AM, which is the kind of thing that does wonders for racial harmony on campus.
They of course got what they demanded.
Perhaps what the Asians at Harvard need to do is phone in bomb threats and take over admin buildings. I’m sure that the entrenched liberals in the administration would see the error of their ways.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 5/22/2015 @ 9:31 amYes, red, but those are actual degrees — history and language. I’m talking about studies of how Asians have been mistreated and resentment workshops and stuff.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 5/22/2015 @ 9:33 am32 – elissa
mg (31009b) — 5/22/2015 @ 9:35 amSometime during the R.R. era, when we were in charge.
Hope the twins have as much luck as last time against the sox.
you’d have to raise a generation or two of victims first, and the parent cultures mitigates against that.
redc1c4 (269d8e) — 5/22/2015 @ 9:36 amThe Sox appear to be on a suicide mission of some sort so I expect you will be pleased after the twinkies series. mg.
elissa (e0723f) — 5/22/2015 @ 9:40 amOT but it does include statistics-
via Daily caller via Rush I see this:
http://multi-science.atypon.com/doi/abs/10.1260/0958-305X.26.3.417
short version, a (former?) IPCC lead author says 8,000 yrs of ice core data shows warming within the 20 th century is within normal range
(I couldn’t find a date on quick exam to see if this was new)
Here is the stats question. Here is a quoted number “0.98 ± 0.27 °C.”
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 5/22/2015 @ 10:05 amin the dim recesses of my memory of my onetime research work, I thought quoting +/- 0.27 was questionable, if not bogus, and it is trying to claim greater precision and accuracy than warranted, and it should have been 1.0 +/- 0.3; but I’ve seen this kind of stuff all of the time in the AGW literature.
Am I mis-remembering? Did statistics practice change in the last 40 years?
elissa – You just need to check your privilege. Shame on you.
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 5/22/2015 @ 10:11 amThanks to the Supreme Court and the University of Texas, American universities think they can do anything as long as they call it diversity. Shame on all of them, especially Bill Powers.
DRJ (e80d46) — 5/22/2015 @ 10:57 amI don’t know, elissa. I’m 52 and I’ve lived long past my sell-by date.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/mar/05/chelsea-manning-military-court-order-gender-pronoun
Yes, we now have court orders on gender pronouns. Yeah, First Amendment!
What the Guardian doesn’t get into is that the court ordered the military not just on how it can’t refer to Bradley Manning, but on how it must refer to Bradley Manning.
If that were true, I should be able to look at a man in a dress and be able to say, “That’s a man in a dress.”
But in the name of freedom, that would be a crime if I were a soldier guarding Bradley Manning’s prison. Those soldiers are no longer free to perceive reality on their own.
Hmm, what other First Amendment rights are under assault? Just kidding; what rights aren’t under assault.
How about freedom of association. I could bring up Robert Gates’ announcement that the Boy Scouts ban on gay leaders is “untenable” but that would lead to the impression that I’m just weirded out about the LGBTQU blah blah blah I don’t know how many letters they’ve tacked onto that thing now. So, to take a different tack:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2015/05/13/obama_criticizes_children_attending_private_schools_contributes_to_less_opportunity_for_all_our_kids.html
You see, elissa, those who depart the collective to freely associate with people of their own choosing are unfairly depriving all those other children of their talents and abilities.
This is an all purpose argument, which means when I insist on my First Amendment rights that can be construed as I hate everybody. Not just teh gays, but minorities and women. To prove I’m a nice guy, I must agree that America needs to be fundamentally transformed into one big TSA-monitored departure lounge where the constitution no longer applies after you pass through the security check-point at the borders.
Oh, and if my First Amendment rights threaten all those who think America should be one big Safe Space where no one should be harmed by speech that upsets their delicate equilibrium, just imagine what the thought of my insistence on my Second Amendment rights will do to their fragile psyches.
And if I insist on my Fourth Amendment rights I’m aiding the terrorists. And then there’s the Fifth Amendment.
Clearly whoever wrote that is promoting rape culture.
Freedom. It’s no longer worth defending.
Ahh, well, let’s get back to our discussion of excluding Asians from Harvard in the name of diversity and inclusiveness.
P.S. If I were a Columbia grad I’d be suing the university for deliberately undermining the value of my degree. That picture of Emma Sulkowicz carrying her mattress throughout the graduation ceremony has been broadcast worldwide and serves as a warning that Columbia grads will forever be more trouble than they’re worth. And, by extension, that the real training you get in what passes for higher education in America is in juvenile self-importance.
Steve57 (fb1453) — 5/22/2015 @ 11:25 amSorry. I’m educating myself on tiny urls as we speak.
Steve57 (fb1453) — 5/22/2015 @ 11:28 amSteve, Did you see this?
Linking to HuffPo because 1)they had the best headline and 2)when even HuffPo thinks it overdone, you know it is overdone.
kishnevi (9c4b9c) — 5/22/2015 @ 12:43 pmOT: Doc, I agree with you. They are basically saying that the difference in temperature from one century to the next will naturally fall within 1.25C and 0.71C 65% of the time, with a number of assumptions that can’t be determined from the abstract (I didn’t want to pay $35 to get the pdf of the full article.) The time series they were using came from a variety of sources, and each proxy has its own errors, so there are likely to be a lot of apples and oranges in this sample. Given all that, it really doesn’t make much sense to pretend that you know the “true” value to a precision of one percent. I like 1C as a convenient way to think about the problem, and if I was going to make a decision based on the temperature diverging from that value, I would like to see the tails of the distribution of the value, and I wouldn’t give any consideration to the standard deviation, because the actual distribution might be bimodal or highly skewed, in which case a Gaussian models wouldn’t be very helpful.
bobathome (77a327) — 5/22/2015 @ 12:54 pmkishnevi @46, thanks. Hadn’t seen that.
Who is this clown who thinks water gun fights conflict with the Boy Scouts creed? I got a merit badge in shooting. I had water gun fights. It used to be a Boy Scout was smart enough to know the difference.
Gates said something to the effect that the Boy Scouts were done as a national movement if they didn’t end their ban on gay scout leaders. To which I say:
1) The Boy Scouts are an international movement.
2) They were pretty much done as a national organization when they hired a throne sniffer like Robert Gates.
Steve57 (fb1453) — 5/22/2015 @ 1:32 pmJust as O/T as the tangent on Boy Scouts and my earlier rant prompted by (but not directed at) elissa: bobathome, Doc, you may find this interesting. President Bieber is fond of saying things like this when he scolds about global warming:
http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2013/06/obama-recycles-the-97-of-scientists-believe-in-man-made-co2-forced-global-warming-crap-again-2670558.html
The bogus 97% number comes from this bit of fraud masquerading as science:
http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/2/024024/article
Disregarding all the other academic felonies John Cook committed when producing this atrocity, not even he alleged he was talking about 97% of scientists. He was attempting to make the case that 97% of peer reviewed studies supported the notion of CAGW. Most people can understand that several such papers can be authored by one human being. Not our Prom Queen!
If we’re going to be lectured to by anyone, shouldn’t it be someone other than Tiger Beat who doesn’t know the difference between people and paper?
Steve57 (fb1453) — 5/22/2015 @ 2:02 pmObola and the Pope. What a pair to endorse AGW. Fantasy Land.
bobathome (77a327) — 5/22/2015 @ 3:04 pmSteve, Bob, and others.
It just hit me.
Obama has done what no one else has ever come close to doing. Not any of you, not Limbaugh, not Rand, not even Hillary.
He’s turned me into a Republican.
kishnevi (adea75) — 5/22/2015 @ 3:56 pm[Shudder]
You got to remember kishnevi, the Bush’s are liberal Republicns. So is McConnell, Gramm, McCain and a dozen more. When the guys turn you Conservative, then they did something.
Hoagie (f4eb27) — 5/22/2015 @ 4:07 pmThanks steve57, yes, that is a good fraud to understand in order to get people to listen to you.
kishnevi- he’s even brought Israel, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia together to agree on something, that his attempt to get a deal with Iran is shear lunacy.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 5/22/2015 @ 4:11 pmYou can plead the same as Bill Bennett and others, it is not that you left the Dem party, but the Dem party left you.
If it was between the Repub party of Gerald Ford and the Dem party of Kennedy, maybe I would be leaning Dem.
Going back to the 97% issue,
yes, first of all it had to do with published papers, not what scientists as individual people thought
second of all, the criteria used to say “Yes, I believe in GW” was very minimalistic, the 97% of papers did not agree with cataclysmic global warming caused principally by manmade CO2, but that there was some warming and manmade greenhouse gases had a part to play in it
third, the methodology and examination of data from the study puts even that into question
IOW, “I don’t think that 97% means what he thinks it means.”
Any other comments on my question about confidence intervals above?
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 5/22/2015 @ 4:18 pmAs promised, he’s a unifier.
Steve57 (fb1453) — 5/22/2015 @ 4:37 pmMD@53
Oddly,Wikipedia does not give the most famous and possibly first iteration of that sentiment.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Lightoller
On being asked why he, the most senior surviving officer, had left the ship when others were still aboard, replied, Sir, I did not leave the ship. The ship left me.
kishnevi (91d5c6) — 5/22/2015 @ 4:38 pmMD in Philly @54, I hope this is responsive to your interrogative.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/03/26/richard-tols-excellent-summary-of-the-flaws-in-cook-et-al-2013-the-infamous-97-consensus-paper/
Steve57 (fb1453) — 5/22/2015 @ 4:50 pmThank you kishnevi, for the Lightoller info. I had never heard of him. A very interesting man.
Hoagie (f4eb27) — 5/22/2015 @ 5:01 pmYes, that was interesting.
Steve57, actually I believe the Tols summary was the source of my quick synopsis, as incomplete or inaccurate as it may have been, but I would have never remembered the source for proper acknowledgement.
MD in Philly (f9371b) — 5/22/2015 @ 5:29 pmThe order in question is about how former PFC Manning is to be referred to in documents filed with the courts. Courts have significant leeway in establishing rules for the filing of motions, memoranda, and other documents.
Michael Ejercito (d9a893) — 5/22/2015 @ 5:31 pmNo, Michael, it’s about how he/she must be addressed in person.
Steve57 (fb1453) — 5/22/2015 @ 5:51 pmNo, you’re right, Michael. It seems the part of the Army I communicate with overreacted.
Steve57 (fb1453) — 5/22/2015 @ 6:02 pmMore Li’s than a Clinton press conference.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 5/22/2015 @ 11:29 pm#54: Doc, there is no single interpretation of the meaning of
If we are trying to measure a physical constant, say the acceleration of gravity at a single spot on the earth, then there would be a “true” value over at least a period of years (continental drift and all that,) and our estimate of that value would have an error associated with our measurement techniques. This leads to the kind of interpretation that you remember. Assuming the errors are independent and Gaussian, then taking more and more measurements reduces the standard deviation of the error, and at some point you can justify a two digit precision because the standard deviation falls to something like one part in a thousand.
On the other hand, if we were measuring the distribution of the weight of adult chickens, then if that distribution were Gaussian then it would be characterized by a mean and a standard deviation. In that case our sample would be analyzed to provide estimates of both parameters, the mean and the standard deviation, and both parameters would have error bounds that depended upon the sample size and our measurement errors. (Not to mention the composition of the sample, brown egg layers versus white, for example, but that is another matter relating to the experimental design.) In this case, one could very well end up with an estimate of the mean that was 0.98, and a standard deviation of 0.27. And each would have it’s own error bounds. The error of the estimate of the mean would be proportional to the standard deviation divided by the square root of the number of samples, and with 10,000 samples, that would be +/-0.0027 which would justify a two or three digit precision as suggested by 0.98. But the standard deviation would still be 0.27 plus or minus some other amount.
When dealing with climate variables, we are dealing with the latter situation. There is no universal constant that is true throughout time. Temperature differences from one century to the next were certainly different during the last ice age, which ended about 20,000 years ago. And when the Mediterranean Sea flooded with Atlantic Ocean waters as the ice melted, that probably introduced another set of factors changing the lagged temperature difference. In fact, I can see no reason to assume that the difference would be normally distributed (Gaussian.) Nor can I see any reason why the trend over thousands of years would be comparable over spans of ten thousand years. This “climate change” concern is a fantastic fraud that makes the Piltdown Man look like child’s play.
And only the greatest of fools can believe it.
bobathome (77a327) — 5/24/2015 @ 9:39 am