First he locked the main pilot out of the cockpit — which pilots can do, thanks to 9/11 — and then deliberately crashed the plane.
The co-pilot’s name: Andreas Lubitz. Religion: unknown.
Hmmmmm. One gets the feeling that there will be a lot of interest in Mr. Lubitz’s life in the weeks and months leading up to this crash. For now, let’s call it what it was: mass murder.
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Patterico (9c670f) — 3/26/2015 @ 7:31 amVery strange, unpleasant times we’re witnessing right now. I mean have they even figured out what happened to that missing Malaysian jet plane?
Call this the era of Freaky-Obama-Twilight Zone.
Mark (c160ec) — 3/26/2015 @ 7:39 amI was just going to post on this, but will just comment here. Most chilling from data retrieved from the black box recorder:
Dana (86e864) — 3/26/2015 @ 7:47 amCalm and quiet as he did what he apparently set out to do.
Also, there was a lapse in his flight training when he voluntarily stopped it for a period of time six years ago. Investigators are looking into what he was doing at that time.
Dana (86e864) — 3/26/2015 @ 7:49 amIF this is true… what a %#%%#@@! This story was what I woke up to at 4AM this morning… that lapse may well be the key.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/26/2015 @ 7:54 amHe also had only 630 hours of flight time.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 3/26/2015 @ 7:54 amThis morning some nut on the news called it suicide. I screamed at the TV , “NO, it’s mass murder!”
Hoagie (58a3ec) — 3/26/2015 @ 8:05 amSo either a mentally unstable person, or are we going to find out he was a muslim? What was he doing during the 6 year break of his flight training?
More importantly, how are in-flight protocols going to be changed based on this event, regardless of whether or not this was an islamic terrorist act or the result of a mentally unstable non-muslim?
If it turns out this scumbag was, in fact, muslim, then how do we demand to pick flights that do not have muslim pilots flying them?
Pete (435606) — 3/26/2015 @ 8:21 am“Call this the era of Freaky-Obama-Twilight Zone.”
– Mark
Another plane crash – THANKS OBAMA!!!1!!11!
Leviticus (f9a067) — 3/26/2015 @ 8:23 amI’m not sure what religion has to do with this.
My boss was on a Lufthansa flight back to Germany in the air while this flight crashed. I can’t imagine what his wife must have been thinking. We spoke today, and he was a little bit freaked out.
carlitos (c24ed5) — 3/26/2015 @ 8:43 amNot sure what religion has to do with this? Have you lived in a box for the last 20 years? You are aware that there is a religion that has been encouraging people to do shit like this? I’ll give you a hint, it isn’t the Mennonites.
JNorth (5fe1bf) — 3/26/2015 @ 8:50 amSaid it before: You get a call from somebody with a thick accent who tells you where your kids get on the school bus, or where your wife works, or your parents live. The only way out is to crash the plane….
Richard Aubrey (f6d8de) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:01 amThe Killer Is In The Cockpit!!!!11ty!!!!
daleyrocks (bf33e9) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:10 amWhy are the pilots allowed to be locked out?
seeRpea (c1462d) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:18 am#13 In the US, from what I’ve seen, when a flight crew member leaves the cockpit, the flight
matt d (7b78f2) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:25 amattendants will barricade the front section with a dining cart, and one of the flight attendants
will enter the cockpit and lock the door so the pilot isn’t alone.
Completely superficial reaction after seeing a picture of him:
His girlfriend broke up with him and he did this to show her how much it hurt.
Mark Johnson (5c2d01) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:30 amSee the U.S.A. in your Chevrolet
mg (31009b) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:38 amSo what’s the Ted Cruz angle on this? I’ll have to watch MSNBC.
CrustyB (69f730) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:38 amReminiscent of something that happened in CA in 1987, where a disgruntled PSA employee smuggled a gun onto a commuter flight, entered the cockpit, killed the crew and crashed the plane. Murder-suicide is what they called it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1771
Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:48 amA metaphor for the Obama presidency.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:54 am13. seeRpea (c1462d) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:18 am
To keep out hijackers!!
Actually, I think on some American airlines, the flight attendants know a secret way to open up the cockpit door if they are locked out, but evidently, this German plane didn’t have
that refinement.
Or maybe there’s also a super secret way to keep the cockpit door really locked, which only the airline employees know?
Sammy Finkelman (033fec) — 3/26/2015 @ 10:03 amMark @2
They are blaming the pilot too, for that one, but I don’t think it is true in that case.
It looks more to me like a hijacking, that took place because somebody in the airline gave a patronage appointment to somebody – who may even have disappeared – we know very little about this.
A hijacking in which people resisted, like on United Airlines Flight 93, and in this case because the hijackers were less well trained, the passengers recovered control of the plane.
But the pilots were disabled, or simply not familiar enough with the electrical systems of the plane because they are trained on flight simulators and everything’s automatic, and they didn’t know where they were, and they didn’t know the radio had been shut off, and kept on flying in hopes of getting within radio range of somebody.
That’s probably not fully accurate, but that’s the sort of picture that develops in my mind for MH370.
Sammy Finkelman (033fec) — 3/26/2015 @ 10:04 ammatt d@14. The American airlines seem to have figured it out.
Sammy Finkelman (033fec) — 3/26/2015 @ 10:06 amIt’s still the safest way to travel!
The airline industry representative Dana (f6a568) — 3/26/2015 @ 10:07 amwe need robots for to do this plane-flying thing
nice sweet lil non-union robots
happyfeet (831175) — 3/26/2015 @ 10:15 amThey are refusing to give out his religion and saying it has no bearing on the crash.
Me thinks if they were any other but Moooslem they would immediately release it with normal “I told u so” recriminations.
Bank it, he is mooooslem.
Rodney King's Spirit (d5efc1) — 3/26/2015 @ 10:19 amHe refused to give details on the pilot’s religion or ethnic background. Prosecutor says German authorities were taking charge of the investigation of the co-pilot, whom he identified as Andreas Lubitz.
Robin refused to give details on the pilot’s religion, saying: “I don’t think it’s necessarily what we should be looking for.”
It’s exactly what they DON’T want to find. It will be the last thing revealed, if ever. It will take a leak from some agency about his online jihadism.
Mike K (90dfdc) — 3/26/2015 @ 10:58 am18… remember that one well, Kevin. That was a flight/route I often took when conducting biz in the mid-80s. Didn’t read the the article you’ve linked, but recall he was a druggie and was to be terminated soon.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/26/2015 @ 11:20 amHe had been terminated but still had his badges. Was a petty thief and got caught with his hand in the till. The guy who fired him was also on the flight as a commuter, which is why he chose that one.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/26/2015 @ 12:11 pmMaybe the passenger list reached a critical mass of government succubi and SEIU members, triggering Andre. In the EU you aren’t free to speak, and without a phony sort of government job you can’t afford to fly a commuter.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/26/2015 @ 12:12 pmIt’s a lot like California.
IS CNN claiming him as a memeber of the Tea Party yet?
papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/26/2015 @ 12:35 pmTea Bagger. I speculate that the pilot was seen watching a snippet of Ted Cruz’ Presidential run kick off speech as he walked through the airport.
steveg (794291) — 3/26/2015 @ 12:41 pmI reckon he was a country and western groupie.
mg (31009b) — 3/26/2015 @ 12:41 pmHe was an Israeli agent.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 3/26/2015 @ 12:54 pmThat too.
Once spoke to an Israeli and had a poster of Bar Refaeli in his locker.
Tea bagging, Israeli loving, country western listening…. my god how could someone so intellectually stunted get through flight school?
steveg (794291) — 3/26/2015 @ 12:56 pmmg: always possible, ‘cause there’s a European country group, the Country Sisters.
The Southern Dana (f6a568) — 3/26/2015 @ 12:57 pmDo you think he ate gluten? hmmmmmm
steveg (794291) — 3/26/2015 @ 12:58 pmLeviticus #9 – Will Bush never stop ! “Lubitz was recognized in 2013 by the FAA as a pilot who “sets [a] positive example.”” … manipulating poor Pres’ent Obama’s FAA 4 years after leaving office !
Alastor (2e7f9f) — 3/26/2015 @ 12:58 pmKevin M #33 – that Is just raeli, *reali* silly !
Alastor (2e7f9f) — 3/26/2015 @ 12:59 pmActually, he was so distraught about global warming and the huge carbon footprint his plane was leaving that he simply decided to end the flght early, so as not to inflict more harm on Mother Gaia.
The tree-hugging Dana (f6a568) — 3/26/2015 @ 1:00 pmRe: #12 And the Devil is his copilot.
In Oregon they call this assisted suicide. Think it’s legal. You should see the scorch marks on Mount Hood.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/26/2015 @ 1:00 pmhttp://www.dw.de/cockpit-union-announces-pilots-strike-on-germanwings/a-18248743
We can talk about possible religious aspects, but what about pure economic ones? Germanwings, whuch is a subsidiary of Lufthansa since 2008-09 time frame has been dealing with a series of rolling strikes by the pilots union, Cockpit voice, since the first of the new year. The bone of contention between management and the union has been the owner classic bone of this century; age of retirement and size of the pension. Could this 28 yr old man have been drive mad because he saw the impeding loss of a sweet deal (current is retire at 55 still draw full pay and then get on the German social net for a difference tween what is paid out and what the social net pays). That he just snapped because the stress of the loss of benefits is too much? That this is truly a form of workplace violence?
Charles (aee460) — 3/26/2015 @ 1:05 pmSo, it’s all the wicked corporations’ fault? I knew it! Elect Elizabeth Warren!
The union steward Dana (f6a568) — 3/26/2015 @ 1:19 pmThe southern Dana –
mg (31009b) — 3/26/2015 @ 1:30 pmEuropean hee-haw with a fiddle kicker, to boot, would get one to crash anything.
20. I said:
Yes, they had that.
The pilot punched in the secret access code, but the co-pilot overrode it.
The plane also has a camera to let someone in the cockpit see what’s going on.
Sammy Finkelman (033fec) — 3/26/2015 @ 1:43 pmDidn’t Chuang Tzu, the originator of Taoism, say something like that?
You can make good locks, but it can fall into the hands of a thief, so you might be better off with less good locks.
I found this:
http://www.universal-tao-eproducts.com/taoism-resources/ChuangTzu10UTEP.html
Sammy Finkelman (033fec) — 3/26/2015 @ 1:56 pmWelcome to Bet Your Life. Guess the correct answer to this question and you get a free shot of Thorazine.
Which of these religious groups has killed over 50 times more Americans than the third one within living memory?
nk (9faaca) — 3/26/2015 @ 1:59 pm1. Lutherans
2. Buddhists
3. Lutherans and Buddhists
4. Muslims
I’ll go with what’s in box #1, Monty.
papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/26/2015 @ 2:20 pmI’ve seen some wild a unconfirmed rumors about depression guy’s personal life…
Less rumory- according to both a named chat room source told the AP, and another source from a local flight club lubitz.belonged to, he had a girlfriend, and Klaus Radker, the club’s chairman said he came t a barbecue event at the club with a girlfriend in tow.
The unsourced rumor is that Lubitz had a Muslim girlfriend, whom he may or may not have been dating at the time of the crash, with one version of the rumor that he had just broken up with her.
SarahW (6f3980) — 3/26/2015 @ 2:47 pmHey easy papertiger, I’m a Lutheran.
Hoagie (58a3ec) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:18 pmJust dodging the thorazine Hoagie, 😉
papertiger (c2d6da) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:42 pmI have it on good authority that the intel folks at Homeland Security have their eyes on you. We all know what a threat you right-wing Christian extremists pose to the world.
Get off your high horses, Christians. We haven’t forgotten all the terrible things you did during the Crusades.
You’ve been warned.
Steve57 (99eaf2) — 3/26/2015 @ 3:43 pmPlus I’m a 32nd degree Knights Templar. That should ruffle some feathers at Homeland ( and the White-ish House ).
Hoagie (58a3ec) — 3/26/2015 @ 4:05 pmThis pic they’re currently showing of the co-pilot sitting with the Golden Gate Bridge in the background… it’s just a shame this evil sonuvab*tch didn’t use that opprtunity to do away with his sorry ass.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/26/2015 @ 4:07 pmAlso… how ’bout Obama throwing all in with the murderous sons of Iranian whoahs known as the Mullahs. The prawn of rat-bastard loins anyway…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/26/2015 @ 4:24 pm{sigh}
seeRpea (c1462d) — 3/26/2015 @ 4:52 pmSo is this for reals?
http://speisa.com/modules/articles/index.php/item.1086/the-co-pilot-of-the-germanwings-airbus-was-a-convert-to-islam.html#.VRST8IXpmGQ.facebook
SarahW (6f3980) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:13 pmHopefully the Bergdahl trial will torpedo Obama’s attempts to suck up to Iran while betraying this country (and, of course, Israel).
That negotiation turned out so well, didn’t it?
Apparently the French are even dismayed at how much Obama is willing to give away to cut a worse than worthless deal with Iran.
As an aside, it may well be that the French gave the Israelis the details about the nuclear talks. Obama and his minions are extremely upset that when Netanyahu came to give his speech the Israelis told Congress about the terms of the deal he’s trying to cut with the Mullahs. I could see the French giving that information to Israel just so that information could get to Congress in the hope that our congresscritters grow a pair and stop Obama before it’s too late.
Obama is livid because he wants to keep Congress in the dark and present it with a fait accompli. Which if you recall is how he made the Bergdahl deal. The law says the administration must inform Congress 30 days before transferring any prisoners from GITMO to other countries. And it’s illegal for the Pentagon to spend money for that purpose unless they follow the the law. No doubt several laws.
http://www.militarytimes.com/article/20140821/NEWS05/308210051/GAO-Pentagon-broke-law-Bergdahl-swap
If I recall correctly the administration had floated the idea of swapping these five terrorists in exchange for Bergdahl to the appropriate committees several months prior. And the members of the committees were appalled, and that prisoner exchange was presented as part of a comprehensive deal with the Taliban. They thought the price was too high even if the Taliban agreed to all the terms.
In the end the administration dropped all its demands and went behind their backs to make an even worse deal.
They did the same thing when they changed their Cuba policy. And the best (as in worst) part was that Obama’s nominee for Deputy Secretary of State, Tony Blinken, lied to Marco Rubio’s face when during his confirmation hearing he said that the administration would not change his Cuba party unilaterally but would only make changes “in full consultation” with Congress.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/rubio-administration-lied-about-cuba-policy-change_821777.html
Given Obama’s track record, I think it has to be fate that everyone is going to get refresher training on just how badly Obama screwed over the country on the Bergdahl swap as he is attempting to screw the country again over Iranian nukes. The timing couldn’t be better.
And maybe these congresscritters will finally get tired of this administration’s lies and do something to stop Obama.
Steve57 (011eda) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:13 pmFor what it’s worth I don’t think it’s for reals. I hope it’s not real.
I know the telegraph was saying they found a clue in his apartment. Won’t say what it is yet…
SarahW (6f3980) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:18 pmhttp://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/germanwings-plane-crash-significant-discovery-5408556
SarahW (6f3980) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:20 pmhopefully, we shall soon see, Sarah W.
I sure like the plainspoken ways of Col. Ralph Peters re: Obama.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:21 pmMaybe he had someone rolled up,in a carpet in there, so to speak. He is, after all, a murderer.
SarahW (6f3980) — 3/26/2015 @ 5:28 pmAndreas Lubitz trained to become a commercial pilot at the Lufthansa Flight Training school in Bremen. It may just be coincidence but Bremen is also the former home of one of the mast radical Salafi mosques in Germany, the Masjidu-l-Furqan Mosque. It was so radical that the German authorities shut it down last year.
The Mosque was attached to a group called the Culture and Salafist families Club (KUF is the German acronym), which sounds harmless but in reality they actively promoted IS in their sermons and recruited for the group. One of their hobbies was to make propaganda films for the Islamic State. Fifteen Muslims from Bremen have been identified fighting for ISIS in Syria.
The Bremen Senate (it’s a city-state) banned the KUF, then the police conducted a massive raid on the Mosque as well as at least 15 apartments belonging to mosque members in December, and then shut down the Mosque.
The Mosque and the KUF had been on German police radar for years. It will be interesting to see if the “significant discovery” the police made when they searched his apartment and his parents’ home include any of their recruiting materials.
Steve57 (011eda) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:07 pmmaybe it’s just this:
https://twitter.com/EUFundedEUTroll/status/581238609006747651/photo/1
narciso (ee1f88) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:10 pmIt could just be that. Still, it’s an interesting coincidence that Lubitz trained in Bremen, formerly home to one of the most infamous mosques in Germany.
Which is saying something, as there are quite a few mosques in Germany competing for that title.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/germany-bans-ultaconservative-islamic-organization-raids-homes-mosques-article-1.1095528
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/09/23/us-syria-crisis-germany-muslims-idUSKCN0HI22E20140923
I just have a hard time believing mere depression would cause anyone to do this. Kill yourself, yes, but why would it make anyone want to kill all those other people? He may have been depressed, but he had to have some other motive to commit mass murder.
Was he angry that the German authorities shut down the Masjidu-l-Furqan Mosque and finally decide he needed to do something about it?
We shall see.
Steve57 (011eda) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:38 pmit’s certainly the dog that didn;t bark, Steve,
is it just simple incompetence on Lufthansa’s part, the sketchiness of herr Lubitz, does make you go hmm,
narciso (ee1f88) — 3/26/2015 @ 6:41 pmZero evidence, all reports I’ve seen are anonymous-sourced, rumor level. Mem board missing? Those things are rated for like 7000 g’s, popping open unlikely.
Was it an A380? Been known to dive by itself.
mojo (a3d457) — 3/26/2015 @ 8:33 pmOMG,
the fail safe that isn’t
i really don’t understand the thinking of this system.
seeRpea (c1462d) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:55 pmmg wrote:
Hey, they do pretty good for a bunch of Euro chicks! And they dress just like Southern girls dress!
The very Southern Dana (f6a568) — 3/27/2015 @ 4:27 amI doubt more than ever the Islamic conversion possibility. It’s looking far more like he was homicidal as a result of mental illness, which he had been treated for but hiding from his employer. His license was up for renewal in June, and he was tearing up sick notes relieving him from duty, one of those for he date of the flight hat he crashed. He might have been trying to withdraw from medications to get clear drug tests. There has been some murmuring about a “relationship crisis” with the young woman who shared his Dusseldorf apartment…but whether or why that was happening is still a mystery. He may have had some sexual identity issues.
SarahW (6f3980) — 3/27/2015 @ 9:27 am69. Well mass homicide over love lost seems a bit thin.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/03/breaking-german-news-germanwings-airbus-co-pilot-was-muslim-convert/
This metrosexual’s life was coming apart but how does taking innocents with him get at the perpetrators of his demise?
DNF (8028c5) — 3/27/2015 @ 9:49 amI am with you on this, Sarah W. This young pilot, Andreas, had been treated for depression over a period of six years. He should not have been flying. Period. His girlfriend/friend/roommate (the “relationship crisis”) also has a very German name. Some always look for a “tea party” connection for every tragedy. Some always look for a” muzzie” connection. Sometimes the murderous perpetrator is seriously nuts–sick in the head. You know?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/27/us-france-crash-idUSKBN0MN11N20150327
Lufthansa is going to be in a world of legal hurt, I think.
elissa (f1942f) — 3/27/2015 @ 10:24 am==I just have a hard time believing mere depression would cause anyone to do this. ==
People diagnosed with clinical depression do not suffer from “mere” depression. It’s often way more debilitating than being sad and withdrawn. They are mind-numb and can’t see either themselves or the world as it actually is. Their heads make up scenarios that bear no resemblance to reality. They constantly look for ways to release their internal pressure and the pain they feel, yet are masters at hiding from others how bad off they are. I never understood depression until I had an employee who suffered with it. Sorry to say that even with medication many continue to exist on a different level and they really must be carefully monitored. Putting him in charge of a plane full of people was not a good idea.
elissa (f1942f) — 3/27/2015 @ 10:53 amPete (435606) — 3/26/2015 @ 8:21 am
Demand that the pilots eat a ham-sandwich in front of the passengers.
askeptic (efcf22) — 3/27/2015 @ 11:04 amMark Johnson (5c2d01) — 3/26/2015 @ 9:30 am
No, it turns out that a doctor had just given him a note to hand over to his superiors that would have barred him from flying (because he broached the idea of suicide, maybe)
He tore that up, but knew he couldn’t suppress it, so this was his swan song. His last chance to fly.
Sammy Finkelman (033fec) — 3/27/2015 @ 1:05 pmhow did he stay calm? drugged? by others or himself?
seeRpea (c1462d) — 3/27/2015 @ 2:17 pmelissa @72, I realize some depressed people become homicidal but in those instances usually there’s something else wrong in addition to depression. That’s what I meant by “mere depression.” It isn’t just depression but something else along with it, such as a personality disorder or some other condition on top of it.
Steve57 (f61e37) — 3/27/2015 @ 2:46 pmDoctors let the person, whom they have diagnosed with a debilitating mental illness, take the note that tells their company that they can no longer perform their jobs themselves?
I can see a pretty obvious point of failure in this procedure.
Steve57 (f61e37) — 3/27/2015 @ 2:54 pmWe’ll have to leave it to the doctors and investigators to decipher. But whatever it was, his doctor(s) had pronounced him unfit to work and the document stating this was found slashed in a wastebasket in his apartment according to CNN.
elissa (f1942f) — 3/27/2015 @ 2:54 pm77. agree. I have to wonder when they gave him the note if the doctors knew he was a pilot, or if he told them he was a postal worker or a waiter or something.
elissa (f1942f) — 3/27/2015 @ 2:58 pmMy guess is the airline’s policy is to keep the company out if the doctor-patient relationship, so pilots who have medical issues feel safe going to the doctor. This is also the policy in the legal and medical professions, so doctors and lawyers who have mental or substance abuse issues aren’t afraid to seek treatment. The obvious downside with that approach is cases like this, but overall the idea is that people would avoid going to the doctor if they believed they would be reported to the company.
DRJ (e80d46) — 3/27/2015 @ 3:07 pmThe impulse is to say this shouldn’t be the policy because pilots have the power over life and death, but so do doctors and most medical boards follow the same policy. Another option is requiring two people in the cockpit, as they do under the American rules.
DRJ (e80d46) — 3/27/2015 @ 3:10 pmIt appears that Lufthansa at least has already made that change since the Alps crash,
elissa (f1942f) — 3/27/2015 @ 3:13 pmI still would not be comfortable if either one of my flight’s pilots had an unknown-about note from their doctor buried in a wastebasket back home saying that they were “unfit to work”.
elissa (f1942f) — 3/27/2015 @ 3:19 pmGoing by what I heard on the news today
kishnevi (9c4b9c) — 3/27/2015 @ 3:20 pm1)We are assuming the doctor’s note related to mental illness, but it may have been a physical illness.
2) The note and other similar notes are described as excusing him fron work that day. That is not the same as a note permanently barring him from flying. It is consistent with someone ignoring doctor’s orders and going to work so he could do something he considered important… in this case, the evil design of crashing the plane.
In the current paucity of information, the note may turn out to be a red herring. For all I know, this could really be a man who converted to Islam and decided to kill for Allah.
Here in the States, there is great controversy among medical professionals about having to report patients who have some mental conditions to the National Instant Check System (NICS) that would prevent them from passing a firearms pre-purchase background check.
askeptic (efcf22) — 3/27/2015 @ 3:38 pmI would think that allowing someone like that to take the controls of a “heavy” would be tantamount to handing them a machine-gun in a playground.
A cop who couldn’t pass a mental-health evaluation would have his badge and gun pulled.
Should we do less with a airline pilot?
If we weren’t all a bunch of cowards, we could have a conversation about this.
67. Anyone in the cockpit can hit the “lock” button and override the emergency code, barring anyone from entering.
There were a couple of more twists to this.
That ‘lock” button only works for 5 minutes. The plane spent 8 minutes descending.
If the “norm” setting is used, then the person outside can enter a super secret code, which unlocks the door for 5 seconds startiung 30 seconds after the code was entered.
But normally, the person outside would contact the perspon inside on the intercom, and the “unlock” button would be pressed, or however this works. Then the door would open as soon as the regular secret code was entered on the keypad.
Sammy Finkelman (033fec) — 3/27/2015 @ 3:41 pmThe reporters are clearly getting a lot of things wrong, thus raising more questions than answers. But as one reporter told me, they have deadlines to meet so they don’t have time to get their facts straight.
No kidding. A reporter really did tell me that once. And he was proud of the fact he met his deadlines.
Steve57 (f61e37) — 3/27/2015 @ 3:44 pmWell, he was obviously credentialed, but woefully under-edumacated.
askeptic (efcf22) — 3/27/2015 @ 3:55 pmThis is interesting, if true.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/aviation/11501075/Andreas-Lubitz-planned-spectacular-gesture-that-would-go-down-in-history-claims-ex-girlfriend.html
I still think that this has to be more than depression. As in, something in addition to depression. According to some of the other reports he was being treated at a (or possibly three, because the reports are poorly written it’s hard to tell) clinic/hospital in Dusseldorf for “a diagnosis.” But the clinic(s) said he was not being treated for depression. So perhaps he was being treated for another mental illness.
Steve57 (f61e37) — 3/27/2015 @ 9:18 pmSteve57 (f61e37) — 3/27/2015 @ 2:54 pm
Those doctor’s excuse notes in Germany never say what the issue is. He maybe didn’t bring it because he didn’t want them asking questions, and he wanted to fly because he was passionate about flying. And maybe he tore it up because he didn’t want any visitor finding it either. That might have been before he quite decided what he was going to do that day..
He was deeply worried about another thing, though. His medical recertification, which was coming up in June – and that would have looked at everything, and maybe he would have had to sign something giving access to all his medical records. Or, if not so, it might be he thought any doctor would find that out, because there was a report he visited two and both gave him that excuse note.
There’s also a report that he broke up with his girfriend, or at least she called off their engagement – they were going to get married sometime in 2016 – just the day before. They were (or had been) living together 7 years, and her name, Goldbach, was still on the mailbox.
The thought occurs to me that she was the one who insisted he visit a doctor, and when he didn’t want to tell the company, or continue seeing doctors, they had an argument and she left him – and now this. I mean why would he see doctors, and even check into a hospital, and then hide it, unless it was his fiance who was pushing him into seeing doctors by threatening to leave him?
Authorities first said there was no issue with a girlfriend and later on Friday they said there was.
There was a very subtle clue found on the cockpit voice recorder that might have alerted the pilot.
Before he got out of the cockpit he and the co-pilot were having normal conversations. But when the pilot discussed his plans to land in Dusseldorf, that is, how they were going to do it and so on, the co-pilot was unusually passive, saying very little. (because of course, he didn’t expect a landing in Dusseldorf to happen, so he wasn’t interested – it was unnecessary brain work for him.)
About the cockpit entry controls: The system was that a pilot who wanted to get back in would ring on the interphone, and then enter a secret code on the keypad, and the doorbell would buzz for 3 seconds, and the person inside would move the toggle switch – it’s not a button a switch like a joystick – to UNLOCK. If he didn’t do it the person outside the cockpit was supposed to call again.
If he got no answer, then he was supposed to enter the super secret emergency code on the keypad.
That would cause buzzing for 30 seconds, and then for 5 seconds after the buzzing stopped the door could be opened, even with the toggle switch at NORM, which means locked. Unless the toggle switch was moved from NORM to LOCK within the 30 seconds, in which case the emergency code would not work for 5 minutes. Unless the switch was moved back from LOCK to NORM and back again.
Now, you may think that, with such a complicated system, sometimes the lock will not work right, and with all good intentions, the co-pilot might not be able to let the pilot back in, and that’s exactly what happened on a Delta Airlines flight this past January, when the co-pilot made an emergency landing in Las Vegas. In fact, Boeing and Airbus have been having trouble with these doors, and hundreds of planes have had them repaired.
Before September 11, 2001, in most planes, there was just a regular lock, to which the pilot, and sometimes the lead flight attendant, had a key, and it didn’t have to be kept locked all the time anyway.
U.S. planes had a rule of two people always in the cockpit, but pilots told the Wall Street Journal that was not because of fear of a rogue pilot, but so that there would be someone else other than the pilot who could look through the keyhole or at the video from the camera, and see who it was who was trying to get in and what were the circumstances.
I guess a possible scenario they had in mind was maybe a small bomb had exploded and the plane could be in a crisis at the time the pilot was trying to get back in and there were also terrorists on board, or the person at the controls couldn’t be sure what the situation was.
Another thing: on U.S. planes, when a pilot leaves the cockpit, he’s always supposed to be wearing an oxygen mask. The fear is that a depressurization could happen at just that time, maybe not by coincidence. And in many, many cases, the cabin crew blocks the galley area outside the cockpit with a beverage cart or some other moveable barrier when the door is being opened or closed, so no passenger can take advantage of the few secoonds when the door is opened and rush into the cockpit.
Sammy Finkelman (033fec) — 3/28/2015 @ 6:46 pmBasically excellent writeup. It in reality had been any fun consideration them. View challenging to be able to a lot presented pleasant by you! Nonetheless, what exactly is carry on the communication?
alexi findifard (9800ca) — 3/29/2015 @ 6:04 pmThere have been a couple of developments. The first is saddening, but expected given how long and how loudly the pilot locked out of the cockpit tried to break his way in.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/29/europe/germanwings-plane-crash-black-box-timeline/index.html
The prosecutor’s initial statement that the passengers were only aware that the plane was going to crash in the final few seconds was widely off base.
It seems the copilot did have other mental and/or personality disorders in addition to depression.
http://nypost.com/2015/03/29/killer-co-pilot-was-an-insecure-control-freak-ex-girlfriend/
In addition to what his girlfriend has to say in the article, there’s this.
Steve57 (b69525) — 3/29/2015 @ 6:44 pm