Patterico's Pontifications

9/16/2010

Come at a Cop With a Knife, Expect to Be Shot

Filed under: Crime,General,Immigration — Jack Dunphy @ 2:09 am



[Guest post by Jack Dunphy]

I have a new column up today at Pajamas Media dealing with the recent police shooting of a knife-wielding man near downtown Los Angeles. It begins as follows:

Everyone knows there are few certainties in life. Yes, you always hear about death and taxes, but recent events here in Los Angeles have revealed other certainties which are, perhaps not coincidentally, related to the first two.

The first is this: If it is your custom to spend your afternoons getting drunk, wielding knives, and menacing passers-by on busy street corners, and if, after the police have arrived as they must when this behavior has been brought to their attention, you fail to drop your knife when ordered to do so, and if then you further tempt fate by advancing toward a police officer with the knife raised in such a way that the officer reasonably believes his life is imperiled, it is as close to a certainty as this world can produce that you will be shot and maybe even killed.

So discovered — too late — one Manuel Jamines (a.k.a. Manuel Ramirez, a.k.a. Gregorio Luis Perez, a.k.a. heaven knows what else) on the afternoon of September 5 at the corner of 6th Street and Union Avenue, just west of downtown Los Angeles.

We are now facing the odd spectacle of illegal immigrants trying to dictate how the police department in America’s second largest city should conduct its affairs. What’s especially odd is that if some of the people protesting the shooting engaged in similar conduct in their home countries, they’d probably be put up against a wall and shot.

Read the whole thing.

–Jack Dunphy

62 Responses to “Come at a Cop With a Knife, Expect to Be Shot”

  1. Proves the old saying,”Never bring a knife to a gun fight.”

    Paul Albers (23002d)

  2. Yet another incident that undercuts the cause of Mexican illegal immigrants. They’re shooting themselves in the foot by protesting for violent illegal immigrants. After reading articles like this, it’s hard to argue against mass deportation.

    GB FL (d232bf)

  3. There are numerous questions about this case that obviously won’t be known (if then) until after the investigation, not withstanding the chief’s presser where he admonished everyone to wait for the review and then proceeded to make his own assertions.

    This is not to justify the demonstations or the misinformation being circulated.

    jeff (31e059)

  4. The anti-drug program DARE has been a failure. So why doesn’t it morph into a biligual DARE to POINT A WEAPON AT A COP. Of course the people who really need to learn this work at the LA Times.

    Arizona Bob (e8af2b)

  5. I just did a search on “new mexico native american with knife shot by police” and got “About 117,000 results.” Lots of those are not from New Mexico, but this is what I was looking for: http://www.abqjournal.com/abqnews/abqnewseeker-mainmenu-39/23888-breaking-officer-involved-shooting-in-downtown-abq.html so a similar event has just happened in NM, though the knife-wielder is probably not illegal. He was taken to the hospital in critical condition, but he is now “stable.”

    In Albuquerque, with one of the highest ratios of lawyers to citizens in the neighborhood, this should temporarily solve the lawyer unemployment problem, with the State (i.e., taxpayers) picking up the tab.

    docduke (9e8675)

  6. “Come at a cop with a knife, expect to be shot.”

    I agree. Not only does the policeman have a right to defend himself, he has a duty to protect the public. Maybe he can risk getting himself stabbed, but he cannot risk an innocent bystander getting stabbed.

    I do not agree with the way police departments handle police shootings. They go into coccoon mode, refuse to give out information, and, consequently, let everybody else use their imaginations to make things up. A lot of good could have come from a simple statement to the press “We have the testimony of x-number disinterested, civilian, eyewitnesses, who said this is how it went down ….”

    nk (db4a41)

  7. Anyone could see that this was a totally manufactured “protest” if they looked at 5 minutes of local news. I cannot believe what leftist shills the stations are. The police arrested a 20-something white guy, a crowd of laughing Hispanic guys, and took the unbiased statements of two smirky chola girls!

    Orwell would be proud…or sick, can’t figure out which.

    Kathleen Parker (9c62d9)

  8. Sharp stabby things tend to make cops concerned. Especially at close range.

    JD (896f08)

  9. I am totally queer for sharp, stabby things. The secret is, “Don’t let them see it, only feel it”. Especially if they have a gun. 😉

    But I agree with Jack 100% on this. I know what knives can do. You are totally justified in shooting someone who comes at you with a knife.

    nk (db4a41)

  10. Knives have a much larger effective dangerous range than one might think.

    JD (896f08)

  11. ?, JD.

    nk (db4a41)

  12. I meant that cops view a brandished sharp stabby thing as a lethal threat at a distance further than you would expect. I seem to recall it being around 21 feet where a knife could pose a lethal and immediate threat to an officer than does not have his weapon drawn. But my memory sucks.

    JD (896f08)

  13. People who throw rocks, bottles, and eggs at the police are not “protestors” or “demonstrators.” They are simply thugs and criminals. I can just imagine the outcry if the police hadn’t shot him and he’d then injured or killed a passerby. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

    LukeHandCool (3326e2)

  14. There is an absolutely wonderful spoof movie called Rustler’s Rhapsody, in which an old-time singing cowboy hero finds himself in a “modern” Western movie. Of course, in the old movies, the good guys just shot the guns out of the bad guys’ hands; they didn’t actually kill anybody.

    Well, in the end, Rex O’Herlihan (the good guy) is confronted by another Good Guy, but one who is also a lawyer and has been hired by the Bad Guys. They’re about to have a gunfight in the midle of the main street, when the hired Good Guy shoots Rex (played by Tom Berenger) in the shoulder, and Rex yells, “I thought you were a good guy!”

    “I’m a lawyer, you idiot!” is the yelled return. They both shoot again, and there is the wonderful scene where Rex’s sidekick says, “Rex, Rex! You shot him in the head! How do you feel about that?”

    “I missed his hand.”

    Clearly, the LAPD officers just missed when trying to shoot the knife out of his hand.

    The movie fan Dana (3e4784)

  15. A friend who is a Birmingham Police Officer says that if an assailant with a knife gets within 15 feet of you, you will probably not be able to draw your weapon and fire before he kills you.

    Here in Birmingham last week, a man noticed someone in his driveway syphoning gas from his vehicle. Picking up his pistol, he confronted the thief who then came at him with a knife. The homeowner shot the man dead.

    No charges are expected to be filed. Charles Darwin has once again been proven correct.

    arch (24f4f2)

  16. Thank, arch. That was what I was trying to say, I just could not figure out how to explain what I meant.

    JD (896f08)

  17. The movie you’re thinking of is “Lust In The Dust”, Dana. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089523/

    What’s going on with these comments, BTW?

    nk (db4a41)

  18. Columns by Jack always inject a welcome dose of sanity into an increasingly insane world.

    BarSinister (5280fc)

  19. No, nk, Dana’s got the movie right. Tom Berenger as Rex O’Herlihan. A very young Sela Ward. GW Bailey as Rex’s side kick. Patrick Wayne as the lawyer/pseudo-good guy. Marilu Henner. Andy Griffith as the patriarch of the ranchers. Released in 1985. Didn’t get great reviews, but I always thought it was a funny movie.

    Some chump (4c6c0c)

  20. The “dangerous radius” aspect of knife attacks was argued out to infinity in a cop-involved shooting of a drugged-up woman in Costa Mesa IIRC a couple years back.

    AD - RtR/OS! (318661)

  21. People don’t realize how fast ten or even twenty feet of distance can be closed by a charge.

    Or how much damage a “primitive” melee weapon can do.

    LarryD (f22286)

  22. I think Indy had the combat radius about right in the market-square scene in “Raiders”.

    AD - RtR/OS! (318661)

  23. Guy with the knife is 20 feet away, you have about 2.5 seconds before the knife is in you.

    Don’t hesitate, or you’re in the hospital, or the morgue.

    Don Diego Vega (8096f2)

  24. That happened in L.A….. I thought the Angelenos burn Watts every time there is a protest against the police….

    JoeC (e89c78)

  25. No, the Blacks burn Watts, the Hispanics burn Pico-Union (where this shooting occurred).

    AD - RtR/OS! (318661)

  26. Arch & JD,

    The Birmingham officer is correct except with respect to the distance. It is commonly taught to police that the potentially lethal danger zone for edged or contact weapons (clubs, etc.) is 21 feet for an officer with a holstered weapon.

    Google the term “Tueller Drill” for more info on the background.

    Chris Sheehy (79e9a3)

  27. MOST of the debate, though, doesn’t seem to be about the proposition in Jack’s headline (with which I agree). (True, a few of the usual naive comments have floated out about Oh, couldn’t the officer have shot to wound?, and Why didn’t he have a taser, etc.)

    Rather, most of the debate has been factual: DID he have a knife? While I cannot say for sure, the “data points” strongly suggest that the now-dead guy had a knife. So it was reported to 911; so numerous non-cop witnesses have said (at least according TO police); and so said the officer involved. The only person to come forward with a contrary report is an admitted criminal who should have been arrested on the spot.

    A variant on the factual dispute has been to describe the weapon as a “three inch” pocket knife.

    Mitch (890cbf)

  28. “Because if you come at a cop with a knife, you’d better plan on getting shot.”

    That doesn’t just go for the cops, btw.

    Dave Surls (2ba05f)

  29. I heard an activist on the radio explain that the man with the knife did not even speak Spanish, let alone English, but was from Guatamala and spoke a Mayan dialect known as Quiche, therefore he couldn’t have possibly known what the approaching officers (commanding him to drop the knife) could have meant.

    That is their leg to stand on. People will be sympathetic and more than willing to suspend disbelief as they demand the LAPD initiate new regs to include multi-lingual training, including obscure Latin dialects, for officers on the street.

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  30. GW Bailey in Rustler’s Rhapsody:
    A smoker asks him, “You got a match?”
    Bailey [attempting sarcasm]: “Yeah. My face and your butt!”

    Icy Texan (f486e9)

  31. Those officers should have known that, in Mayan culture, raising a knife above your head and moving toward someone is a ritualistic welcome greeting.

    And the Mayan dead guy should have known that he was no longer in Guatamala.

    navyvet (b0f168)

  32. I saw Jack Bauer shoot a knife out of someone’s hands once. Try these cops for murder for shooting to kill!!!!!

    (sarcasm)

    Dustin (b54cdc)

  33. My opinion is that there should be a no limit hunting season on violent criminal illegals and their lawyers and supporters. Once word gets out and the more stupid ones keep up the stupidity, they’ll thinned out enough not to cause anymore problems.

    PCD (1d8b6d)

  34. the Mayan dead guy should have known that he was no longer in Guatamala.
    Comment by navyvet — 9/16/2010 @ 12:24 pm

    — He knows now. Unfortunately, some lessons in life need to be learned the hard way.

    Icy Texan (f486e9)

  35. And in Seattle if you walk away they shoot you!

    Legal Whittler gets Death Penalty…

    Even when yer deaf and walkin away the true blue club will kill you dead!

    Deaf and Dumb must still be in vogue.

    “He’s considered a very good officer. He has a good record,” he said.

    RTF (ee6448)

  36. Seattle has a similar sort of shooting. (on my blog if you’ve just got to see pics)

    Darkly amusing, since my mom is a little older than the guy was, has been deaf in one ear since she was three, packs a very similar knife (three inch+ blade folding knife, partly serrated, with a boot or belt clip)– it’s hilarious how many folks are talking like you can’t be really hurt by someone like that!

    Head towards a cop with a knife out, ignore him telling you not to, get shot. Um, DUH?

    Foxfier (24dddb)

  37. Seven yards (21 feet) and even I can still kill with a knife. You don’t believe? Here’s the version of the Tueller Drill that I use: we wear white, long sleeved hooded sweatshirts and white sweatpants. You have a squirt pistol filled with black ink. I have a marker filled with red ink. I stand 21 feet behind you, your weapon is holstered. Someone says “go!” Your task is to shoot me with the black ink. Mine is to land a killing blow with the red marker. I can frequently get both a carotid and a femoral artery, even if I’m “dead”. I’m over sixty years old and still a hundred pounds overweight! Guaranteed if you have to notice me coming, rather than the shouted warning; the first thump of my foot means I’m five feet closer.

    htom (412a17)

  38. #35

    No matter where you are, if the police tell you to drop your weapons, then drop your weapons.

    Four police officers were gunned down and killed less than a year ago in Lakewood, Wa, and right before that happened a Seattle police officer was shot and killed while he was sitting in his vehicle, so up there, if the police tell you to drop your weapons, then you drop your weapons, and I mean like RIGHT FUCKING NOW.

    Jesus, this is just common sense.

    Dave Surls (2ba05f)

  39. More Rustler’s Rhapsody:

    GW Bailey: You mean you’ve never been with a woman, Rex?

    Rex: This is the 1880s. You gotta date them and date them and sometimes even marry them before…

    GW Bailey: Wow, Rex. You are a good guy.

    Some chump (4c6c0c)

  40. I meant that cops view a brandished sharp stabby thing as a lethal threat at a distance further than you would expect. I seem to recall it being around 21 feet where a knife could pose a lethal and immediate threat to an officer than does not have his weapon drawn. But my memory sucks.

    Comment by JD — 9/16/2010 @ 8:37 am

    If the 40-forty yard dash can be done in 5 seconds by somebody wearing football equipment …. Well, do the the math at 6 yards.

    So, we agree, JD. Guy with a knife threatening from 25 feet away, shoot him.

    nk (db4a41)

  41. nk, see my #22.

    AD - RtR/OS! (318661)

  42. I saw that, AD. I am not sure I want to have Hollywood teach me self-defense but I agree with your point.

    (But the swordsman in that scene was an idiot. Indy should have only felt the sword, not seen it brandished.)

    nk (db4a41)

  43. Hey, the guy was being a macho stud, like ?Johnny Ringo? in “Tombstone”, twirling his gun to impress Doc Holliday (who used a coffee cup just in case he needed to draw that hog-leg).

    AD - RtR/OS! (318661)

  44. AD – I love that scene. Love it.

    JD (8ded14)

  45. The gunfight at the OK Corral is the only recorded instance of Doc Holliday having killed anyone in a gunfight. And he started the fight because his hand was too shaky on the trigger — or his nerves were. (He was, at the time, a terminal alcoholic living on two quarts of whiskey a day.)

    Ned Buntline created a mythology about gamblers, pimps and small-time extortionists with his penny-dreadfuls. The people in the movie “Tombstone” never existed.

    nk (db4a41)

  46. Doesn’t make it anything less than a sensational movie. One that I have watched 1627 times.

    JD (8ded14)

  47. I liked the movie, too.

    The shotgun fight between Wyatt Earp and Curley Bill actually happened.

    And Billy Brenckenridge and Curley Bill were friends. Billy was responsible for collecting real estate taxes and Curley Bill would back him up against scofflaw land owners.

    nk (db4a41)

  48. Thanks, Jack, for the scoop on this deal. I am in the Pacific North Wet these days. I thank you for your service.

    gnholb (4fbede)

  49. I’m glad to see I’m not the only one who saw Rustler’s Rhapsody. To me, it’s right up there with another classic, The Gods Must Be Crazy.

    The movie fan Dana (8a8a86)

  50. The much prettier Dana wrote:

    I heard an activist on the radio explain that the man with the knife did not even speak Spanish, let alone English, but was from Guatamala and spoke a Mayan dialect known as Quiche, therefore he couldn’t have possibly known what the approaching officers (commanding him to drop the knife) could have meant.

    Apparently he didn’t understand sign language, either; you’d figure that anyone seeing a police officer pointing a gun at you was communicating more than just verbally.

    Of course, he deserved to die anyway: real men don’t speak Quiche.

    The sarcastic Dana (8a8a86)

  51. Maybe we should all start posting as some kind of “Dana” and confuse the hell out of everybody else. Hey, don’t laugh—Patterico has tried much crazier experiments.

    elissa (210290)

  52. “real men don’t speak Quiche.”

    Sarcastic Dana – I find my bacon cheese quiche way more satisfying than vegan pancakes, but I do admit, it does not speak to me. My corned beef and cabbage is an entirely different matter.

    daleyrocks (940075)

  53. Now that would indeed be funny, elissa!

    And this is very interesting: In light of our knife-wielding Mayan, today’s Los Angeles Times has a (cue violins) sympathetic article on the Maya community in Los Angeles.

    Apparently we need to understand that although Jamines got drunk on the weekends and was very drunk on the morning he was shot and killed, according to police and family members, the police should have understood the cultural differences, should have handled this correctly (i.e. dumb cops).

    In Guatemalan slang, Jamines was a bolo, a public alcoholic. Overpowering a bolo should have been easy for police, the laborers said.

    “The officers could have knocked him down with one of their batons, or with electricity [a Taser], and taken him to prison, or deported him,” Diego said. Instead, Jamines was killed. “If this is such an elevated country,” he asked, “how could something like that happen?”

    Apparently all they want to really do is go home, (and not threaten police officers),

    “All of us guatemaltecos here have hurt in our hearts,” Diego said. “Who doesn’t want to go home? If we had something to take back — $3,000, $4,000 — we’d return.”

    Dana (8ba2fb)

  54. Brit General to Hindu personage (early 19th-Century):
    You culture compels you to burn widows in the funeral pyre of their husbands; mine compels me to hang you as a murderer.
    You observe your cultural traditions, and I shall certainly observe mine.

    AD-RtR/OS! (cd552c)

  55. dialog known as Quiche, therefore he couldn’t have possibly known….

    Yeah, Jessie Jackson Junior tried a version of that argument today, too. On a radio show he claimed when he was in the meeting with those Indian businessmen (who were scheming to raise a million for Blago so he’d appoint JJJ to the open senate seat) they were speaking in Hindu (sic) and so he didn’t know what they were talking about.

    elissa (210290)

  56. ———- Forwarded message ———-
    From: adam rosenblatt
    Date: Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 11:23 AM
    tricking and treating super american greed style under bush, cheney, kissinger, nixon reagan and of course obama.

    the leopard has never changed its spots. in the real world of political reality these are the facts today on planet earth. all citizens must read naom chomsky on american hegemony for full intellectual confirmation of this empire of satan which today versus the great satan of islamic fundamentalism and the clash of civilisations. suicidal terrorism and murder is only a side effect of the wolf pack led by american big business and the multinational military industrial oil, nuclear megalopolies and complexes with russia limping behind with its oil and nuclear businesses and weaponry. of course india a hindu culture is becoming a clone of the united states with its enormous greed and corruption and a new nuclear submarine and china a buddhist maoist synthesis must be mentioned that plays it both ways and is replacing all the other nations as a power broker. . facts on the ground. wahabe women oppressive reactionary saudi military make a deal with the united states for 100 billion dollars. bp and all other major oil interests will never disappear and grow even more powerful. facts. the thailand army is a fiefdom of american big money to destroy any communist movements such as ex pm thaksin shinawatras populist shenanegans.facts russia and america are at political war in thailand over the small change russian arms dealer bout who sold arms to the farc. facts under our seas 24 hours per day nuclear mirv tipped submarines mostly american circle under our feet. historical facts. werner von braun and his pro-nazi team of rocket scientists were wined and dined in the united states after the deadly second world war.. it is of course american and church roman catholic money that allows pope benedict the 16th to enter england after 500 years with the protestants and catholics now kissing each others asses in front of a bemused queen. conveniently forgotten of course is the nazi big wigs shuttled to latin america by the vatican just after the war historically AMERICA ANNIHILATED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF JAPANESE CITIZENS IN HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI TO STOP RUSSIA FROM ENTERING JAPAN. the united states did not enter the second world war until 1943 because of pearl harbor(hitler was already looking across the british chanel at england). read patents for hitler about details of how helmer schacht the nazi economist gave america the profits while adolph built up the monstrous german war machine that killed over 135 million. roosevelt opposed jewish immigration in the late 1930,s (his wife opposed him on this issue) and was indirectly responsible with adolph hitler for the murder of some of the millions of jews. even in 1939 the nazis were zieg hailing in madison square garden in new york. vietnam was created by the vatican lobby including kissinger johnson nixon et al in america against the anti-christ, communism and the gooks. the kent state killing of students in the US was part of this anti anti-christ obsession of americans. of course we can go back to the american civil war with the death of over a million young men with fife and drum care of profitable gattling guns and repeater rifles grand oprey and bounty hunting..these facts can go on and on ad nauseam. now a few statistics to jog the minds of the citizens of planet earth about poverty world wide as the really big boys all multi trillionaires like krupp and thyssen (these supporters of adolph hitler own a good chunk of thailand-see a bangkok post fold out) the ruhr magnates chase morgan vickers rockefellers et al wine and dine eachother in all the halls of fame wealth and castles.now a few statistics to jolt the citizens of planet earth. a billion people do not have access to clean drinking water. a billion people suffer from hunger. 1 billion die every year from malaria. 1 and 1 half to 2 BILLION plus of tuberculosis, aids and other curable diseases. poverty keeps 72 million children plus out of school. very few will realise their potential as citizens of planet earth. horrific disgusting and a total disgrace of present day life on planet earth. indeed all citizens on planet earth must see avatar of james cameron at least 4 or 5 times it is a brilliant symbolic movie created by james cameron who is a canadian. it exposes for all us to see the raw greed of our specie homo sapiens that will perhaps self annihilate in its lust for unobtainium at 20 million dollars per kilogram. as the script says we must keep all our stokholders in all the stock markets of the world happy. there is also darth vader of star wars 3 who will always exhibit the greatest of evils as he fights all good between the eternally erupting volcanos of his world where evil and good are interchangeable. .all of us must be reminded over and over again of the evil and good inclination inside our hearts. indeed there is a lot of gloom and doom in all our lives and which horse will reach the finishing post first will determine whether homo sapiens will creat a paradise or disappear with all our god and gods as a whisper unto eternity. but, apart from being a passionate and incorrigible realist i am also a bit of a dreamer a don qixote and an incurable romantic i have 2 favourite wonderful songs that i sing in my repertoire as a musician to fight the evil inclination on planet earth. to dream the impossible dream to fight the unbeatable foe etc etc —————-and the song sung by the lover of alphie who is incarcerated in a mental hospital. whats it all about alphie is it just for the moment we live————if only fools are kind then i guess it is wise to be cruel—–so forth and so on. readers please google these magnificent lyrics they certainly apply to us all.

    readers probably the above commentary will be difficult to digest at one sitting as it is a precis of all the stark political realities of our planet with all its characters names and facts. a dictionary and google will help those whose mother tongue is not english and it is suggested to be read several times for the same reason as the brilliant masterpiece avatar must be seen several times to gain understanding of its contents. most of our lives involve a small part of reality but the BIG PICTURE must be comprehended if our specie is to survive TODAYS MASSIVE EXPLOSION OF NUCLEAR BOMBS SCIENTIFIC KNOWHOW. ECOLOGICAL AND MIND POLLUTION AND THE POWER OF THE MASS MEDIA TO BRAIN WASH US will succed if we do not .NOT RECOGNISE THE HIDDEN AGENDAS OF THE POWER ELITES AND THEIR RELIGIOUS CO-DEFENDERS FILLED WITH GREED AND THE LUST FOR CONTROL. . .

    adam rosenblatt (9e80d9)

  57. In Canada that’s how our cops are trained. If you’re within 23ft with a weapon expect to be shot. Oh, and we’re trained to aim bottom up(foot to head), and empty the entire clip while firing.

    Because if someone is coming at you, with the possibility of killing you or someone else. They die first.

    Mashi (675d26)

  58. Oh, adam rosenblatt is full-on bugf@cknutz. Certifiable. Makes crissyhooten seem sane.

    JD (cc3aa7)

  59. Wow, rosenblatt, dial down the nutty. Woo woo!

    Of course, anyone who’d quote a proven liar like Noam Chomsky needs help.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  60. #56

    Wins the longest paragraph of the century award.

    Dave Surls (58a5d2)

  61. Fisking selected parts of the longest paragraph of the century:
    the leopard has never changed its spots.
    — Blue collar translation, courtesy of Ron White: “You can’t fix ‘stupid'”.
    suicidal terrorism and murder is only a side effect of the wolf pack led by american big business . . .
    — Yet another variation on the “America’s chickens have come home to roost” meme. *Yawn*
    china a buddhist maoist synthesis must be mentioned that plays it both ways
    — China is bi? Hu knew?
    under our seas 24 hours per day nuclear mirv tipped submarines mostly american circle under our feet.
    — Under our seas AND under our feet? That’s so f*$&ing cool! Subs that travel thru magma!!!
    werner von braun and his pro-nazi team of rocket scientists were wined and dined in the united states after the deadly second world war.
    — And as an eventual result result we won the Cold War and set foot on the moon. Sounds like those ‘pro-nazis’ did some good with their lives once we got ahold of them.
    conveniently forgotten of course is the nazi big wigs shuttled to latin america by the vatican just after the war
    — Well, they ARE conveniently dead by this time.
    AMERICA ANNIHILATED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF JAPANESE CITIZENS IN HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI TO STOP RUSSIA FROM ENTERING JAPAN
    — I see. Interesting theory: America irradiated 2 Japanese cities NOT to force Japan to capitulate, but to prevent “Russia” (which at that point had been on the run from the USSR for some 28 years, so they were probably tired and looking for a place to stay) from occupying the country.
    the united states did not enter the second world war until 1943 because of pearl harbor
    — 1942 was like the dream-sequence year on “Dallas”; right?
    these facts can go on and on ad nauseum
    Your ‘facts’ DO tend to add nauseum to the proceedings.
    1 billion die every year from malaria. 1 and 1 half to 2 BILLION plus of tuberculosis, aids and other curable diseases.
    — Wow! Half the planet dies every year? Bummer. BTW, didn’t know that AIDS was “curable”.

    Icy Texan (1cdac1)


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