Patterico's Pontifications

9/10/2021

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:54 am



[guest post by Dana]

Hello! Publishing early, so here we go!

First news item

About President Biden’s vaccine mandate:

The president’s plan is certainly well intentioned. The vaccines are the only tried-and-true strategy for defeating Covid; government officials should both encourage vaccination and make it easier to get vaccinated. Health officials must continue selling people on the vaccines by emphasizing the considerable upside: Vaccination decreases transmission of the virus and turns hospitalization and death into very unlikely outcomes. It provides such robust protection that 99 percent of coronavirus fatalities in the United States now occur in the unvaccinated population. Vaccination works, and it’s the right option for a vast majority of Americans…

But forcing vaccines on a minority contingent of unwilling people is a huge error that risks shredding the social fabric of a country already being pulled apart by political tribalism.

The president should not — and most likely does not — have the power to unilaterally compel millions of private-sector workers to get vaccinated or risk losing their jobs: Mr. Biden is presiding over a vast expansion of federal authority, one that Democrats will certainly come to regret the next time a Republican takes power. Moreover, the mechanism of enforcement — a presidential decree smuggled into law by the Department of Labor and its Occupational Safety and Health Administration — is fundamentally undemocratic. Congress is supposed to make new laws, not an unaccountable bureaucratic agency.

Second news item

So why didn’t they do more to protect the Capitol on Jan. 6:

Just two days before armed rioters stormed and ransacked the Capitol, about 300 law enforcement officials got on a conference call to talk about the possibility that Donald Trump’s supporters would turn violent on Jan. 6. They specifically discussed the possibility that the day’s gatherings would turn into a mass-casualty event, and they made plans on how to communicate with each other if that happened.

The officials were so prepared for chaos that they even had a hashtag to share information on the FBI’s private communication service: #CERTUNREST2021…

A few days after the riot, a top FBI official told reporters that the Bureau “did not have intelligence suggesting the pro-Trump rally would be anything more than a lawful demonstration,” according to The Washington Post. But the call summary shows that hundreds of officials at fusion centers around the country in fact saw the threat coming, and that they prepared for damaging unrest days before the first rioters broke into the Capitol.

Third news item

Los Angeles public schools mandate COVID-19 vaccines for students:

The Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD) voted to approve a COVID-19 vaccine mandate for students, becoming the first major school district in America to do so.

All students who are 12 years of age and older and are part of in-person extracurricular programs must receive their first vaccine dose by no later than October 3, and their second dose by no later than October 31, 2021.

All students who are 12 years of age and older must receive their first vaccine dose by no later than November 21, 2021 and their second dose by no later than December 19, 2021.

All other students must receive their first vaccine dose by no later than 30 days after their 12th birthday, and their second dose by no later than 8 weeks after their 12th birthday.

Fourth news item

Trouble ahead:

[Republicans] are calling for a public uprising to protest President Biden’s broad vaccine mandates, eight months after more than 500 people stormed the U.S. Capitol to try to overturn the election…

J.D. Vance — author of “Hillbilly Elegy” and a candidate for the GOP U.S. Senate nomination in Ohio — urged “mass civil disobedience” to Biden’s plan to use federal authority to mandate vaccination for roughly two-third of America workers…”I have a simple message for America’s business community,” Vance wrote. “DO NOT COMPLY.”

South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem told Sean Hannity on Fox News: “In South Dakota, we’re going to be free. … We will take action. My legal team is already working.”

A top House Republican aide tells me: “Every Republican in the country — especially those running to the right in primaries — is salivating over Joe Biden [igniting] the vax debate.”

“Republicans think that he’s made even pro-vax conservatives into ‘anti-vax mandate’ Americans.”

Twitter’s top U.S. trends last night had “#IwillNOTComply” at No. 6 — with the NFL’s season kickoff in the top four slots, followed by “Big Brother” on CBS at No. 5.

#VaccineMandate was No. 8, with #DoNotComply as a trend.

More:

“When this decree goes into effect, the (Republican National Committee) will sue the administration to protect Americans and their liberties,” RNC Chair Ronna McDaniel said in a statement…

“The Biden administration’s ill-conceived ‘Path out of the Pandemic’ plan vastly exceeds the powers the United States Constitution allots the executive branch,” said the New Civil Liberties Alliance, a nonprofit funded by the Charles Koch Foundation, a deep-pocketed conservative group.

“The federal government has no police power, and likewise no authority to force private employers of any size to mandate vaccines,” the group said…

“While I support the vaccine and have received it, Americans have the right to exercise personal choice when it comes to their health,” said Republican U.S. Senator Ted Cruz. “Getting the vaccine is a decision to be made in consultation with one’s doctor, not forced on Americans by the government.”

Anyway, crazy aside [Ed. for clarification: I am referring to Josh Mandel], this is so true:

Untitled

Fifth news item

Unsurprising:

The Department of Justice on Thursday sued Texas over its restrictive new abortion law, saying the state’s legislature enacted the statute “in open defiance of the Constitution.”

The lawsuit comes after the Supreme Court, stacked 6-3 with conservative justices, last week refused to block the controversial abortion law, which bans almost all abortions after as early as six weeks of pregnancy, from taking effect.

President Joe Biden had blasted the high court’s overnight ruling, saying it “insults the rule of law.” Attorney General Merrick Garland said at the time that the Justice Department was “evaluating all options to protect the constitutional rights of women, including access to an abortion.”

…The 30-page complaint against the Lone Star State, filed in federal court in Austin, also accuses Texas of adopting “an unprecedented scheme” to insulate the abortion law from legal challenges by empowering private citizens to “serve as bounty hunters” against those who seeks out or assists in obtaining abortions.

The government is asking the court to declare the abortion law “invalid, null, and void,” and bar Texas from enforcing it in any way.

Profound reservations about the Texas law from David French:

The law bans abortion after a heartbeat is detected (a position I support), but it does so in a way that is engineered both to evade pre-enforcement judicial review (dangerous) and to empower any citizen (except state officials) to file suits against anyone who performs or “aids or abets” the performance of an abortion (even more dangerous).

That means that if a person believes his ex-girlfriend, friend, or acquaintance obtained an abortion, they can sue the doctor, the nurse, the receptionist, the mom who paid for it, and the boyfriend who drove her to the clinic.

Yes, those people can mount legal defenses regarding the constitutionality of the statute or their actual participation in the abortion—perhaps the plaintiff sued the wrong nurse, or the mom didn’t know the money she loaned her daughter was for an abortion, or the boyfriend didn’t realize where he was taking his girlfriend until after they arrived—but if they prevail and defeat the lawsuit, they’re still out legal fees that could financially break the defendants.

What if the woman didn’t get an abortion at all? What if she miscarried, and the plaintiff files suit thinking she obtained an abortion? How many thousands of dollars in legal fees would the defendants (including, possibly, grieving family members) have to pay to defend themselves against a random citizen before that citizen has to drop the suit? “I’m sorry” wouldn’t begin to cover the dreadful costs involved… Thus, even if Roe and Casey fall, and Texas is legally able to ban abortions after a heartbeat is detected, this law is still unjust.

Sixth news item

There was no doubt that this – and much worse – would happen:

The Taliban’s violent crackdown on protests against their hardline rule has already led to four documented deaths, according to a UN human rights official who said the group had used live ammunition, whips and batons to break up demonstrations.

Ravina Shamdasani, the UN’s rights spokesperson, told a briefing in Geneva that it had also received reports of house-to-house searches for those who participated in the protests.

The protests against the Taliban’s return to power, many of which have been led by women fearful of their status under the Islamist group, have been the target of violence in a number of locations and were formally banned this week without prior authorisation by the Taliban’s new interior ministry.

Describing the crackdown on dissent as “severe”, Shamdasani also described how journalists covering the demonstrations had faced intimidation, including in one case the threat of “beheading”, apparently a reference to an incident in which two Afghan journalists were detained, flogged and threatened earlier this week.

Oh for godsake, just shut-up already and stop embarrassing America:

The State Department on Tuesday expressed concerns over the makeup of the new interim Afghan government announced by the Taliban, including the lack of female leaders and the past actions of some of those appointed to top posts.

A State Department spokesperson said in a statement shared with The Hill that although the Taliban “has presented this as a caretaker cabinet,” the U.S. “will judge the Taliban by its actions, not words.”

“We have made clear our expectation that the Afghan people deserve an inclusive government,” the spokesperson added.

The statement went on to note that the list of names announced by the Taliban earlier Tuesday “consists exclusively of individuals who are members of the Taliban or their close associates and no women.”

Seventh news item

“I don’t think there was a process” [for evacuating our Afghan partners]:

Eighth news item

Yikes:

A Washington Post-ABC News poll asked unvaccinated workers whose employers have yet to impose a vaccine mandate what they were likely to do if being vaccinated was required.

The poll found 16 percent of unvaccinated workers would get the shot, 35 percent would ask for a medical or religious exemption and 42 percent would quit.

Without an exemption, 18 percent said they would comply and 72 percent said they would quit.

Note: A young friend of mine took a heap of scorn from colleagues when they found out that she had received a COVID-19 vaccination. WTF??

Ninth news item

Tenth news item

Trump Coup still rages on:

The authors of the coup try stay embedded within the Republican Party and within the conservative motion. Some are officeholders, like Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia, whereas others proceed worthwhile associations with establishments starting from the New Civil Liberties Alliance, a right-leaning public-interest litigation group, to Fox News and different media outfits.

The Trump administration was grotesque in its cruelty and incompetence. But with out the coup try, it might need been doable to work out a modus vivendi between anti-Trump conservatives and Mr. Trump’s right-wing nationalist-populists. Conservatives weren’t proud of Mr. Trump’s histrionics, however many had been fairly happy with all these Federalist Society judges and his signature on Paul Ryan’s tax invoice. Trump supporters, who had been nearly completely in theater, loved 4 years of Twitter-enabled catharsis even because the administration did little or no on key points like commerce and immigration.

In the traditional course of democratic politics, individuals who disagree about one challenge can work collectively after they agree about one other. We can combat over taxes or commerce coverage.

But there isn’t actually any center floor on overthrowing the federal government. And that’s what Mr. Trump and his allies had been as much as in 2020, by each violent and nonviolent means — and proceed to be as much as right now.

When it involves a coup, you’re both in otherwise you’re out. The Republican Party is leaning fairly strongly towards in. That goes to depart a minimum of some conservatives out — and, in all chance, completely out.

Have a great weekend!

–Dana

604 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (174549)

  2. Biden just did something 8,000x worse than anything Trump has done.

    Where’s the outrage when Biden said:

    “If they’ll not help, if these governors won’t help us beat the pandemic, I will use my power as president to get them out of the way”

    Just imagine the outrage had Trump said those exact words and ask yourself why we’re not getting the same sort of outrage.

    I mean, when Trump said “I have Article 2″ flippantly during an adhoc interview, the outrage exploded.

    But, when Biden literally threaten state governor the silence is getting deafening.

    whembly (3b5b58)

  3. Hello, Dana! I’ll start with non-listed topic. No worries, not Kiley Jenner’s bare baby bump.

    Blogger, a Google service, has shut down the Vox Popoli, the blog of neo-something-or-other Theodore Robert Beale a/k/a Vox Day. To my especial schadenfreude, for a fact, but otherwise interesting because this is the first time I’ve heard of Blogger shutting down neo-something-or-others, like Twitter, Facebook, and Amazon have been doing.

    nk (1d9030)

  4. @3 – you can find his site here

    Horatio (c407f7)

  5. Hageman’s credentials alone doom Daughter Darth.

    It’s 2021:

    Goldberg is irrelevant.
    French is irrelevant.

    Gee, Joe, check your watch: wonder if these ‘folks’ had time to get a ‘vaccine’ jab?:

    Marine Corps Lance Cpl. David L. Espinoza, 20, of Rio Bravo, Texas
    Marine Corps Sgt. Nicole L. Gee, 23, of Sacramento, Calif.
    Marine Corps Staff Sgt. Darin T. Hoover, 31, of Salt Lake City
    Army Staff Sgt. Ryan C. Knauss, 23, of Corryton, Tenn.
    Marine Corps Cpl. Hunter Lopez, 22, of Indio, Calif.
    Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Rylee J. McCollum, 20, of Jackson, Wyo.
    Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Dylan R. Merola, 20, of Rancho Cucamonga, Calif.
    Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Kareem M. Nikoui, 20, of Norco, Calif.
    Marine Corps Sgt. Johanny Rosario Pichardo, 25, of Lawrence, Mass.
    Marine Corps Cpl. Humberto A. Sanchez, 22, of Logansport, Ind.
    Marine Corps Lance Cpl. Jared M. Schmitz, 20, of St. Charles, Mo.
    Navy Hospital Corpsman Maxton W. Soviak, 22, of Berlin Heights, Ohio
    Marine Corps Cpl. Daegan W. Page, 23, of Omaha, Neb.

    Your incompetence killed them, Joe; you destroyed their families; blown up through your incompetence at that place you won’t mention anymore: Kabul, Afghanistan.

    Beau’s hungry, Joe; bring the boy a cheesesteak…

    “I’d like to see Paris before I die. Philadelphia will do.” – Cuthbert J. Twillie [W.C. Fields] ‘My Little Chickadee’ 1940

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  6. Dana!!!!! More pictures, please!!!!!!

    You have a great eye for composition!

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  7. Whembly, He shouldn’t have said that. If he could sell being a strong man it would be repugnant. In this context it seems sad, but still inappropriate. Because bullying statements from him are rare and out of character with his history statements like that don’t evoke the same level of concern and outrage they did coming from someone that frequently and repeatedly wished people would assault his opponents and that his AG would use the DOJ to punish people.

    It was a dumb, inappropriate statement that doesn’t fit into the narrative of a strong man who wants to misuse the power of the office to punish is enemies.

    Statements he makes that fit into the narrative of a confused old man seem to get more runway.

    If he repeats inappropriate statements like this, or takes inappropriate action, I would expect that to change.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  8. He shouldn’t have said that.

    Peter Principle 101: it’s something a senator would say into the mirror when imagining he was the CIC as he pulled his socks on.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  9. @7 I’m running that speech in my mind, and I cannot even fathom why the speech writer wrote than and how it got approved by that administration.

    I mentioned this in previous thread, the only explanation that makes sense is that this was a cynical ploy to force the conversation from Afghanistan to GOP Governor fighting with the Biden administrations.

    Am I wrong?

    whembly (3b5b58)

  10. Re-posting this here because more people need to see it:

    CNN – Fauci is asked by Dr. Sanjay Gupta why people who had Covid already are being required to vaccinate, even though they’re likely more protected than vaccinated people

    “That’s a really good point…I don’t have a really firm answer for you on that”

    https://twitter.com/theeliklein/status/1436387479469404164?s=21

    Waiting on a ‘FFS’ from Jonah Goldberg.

    Obudman (6fea74)

  11. I remember what I was doing on 9/10/01… at least in the afternoon. We had just sold our house and had narrowed our choices for the next home. My dearest and I piled the kids into the trusty Windstar and just cruised by our possible selections.

    Before the end of the week, our buyers backed out… but we sold it again within two weeks.

    “ I’ve been trying to remember September 10 but it’s no go.

    I know what I must have been doing, but I don’t remember what I did. I kept no notes on that most ordinary of September days. I kept many notes on the day that followed and the days, weeks, months and years that followed that day. What I do know is that whatever might have followed September 10 was taken from us all that day never to be returned or recaptured only avenged. What I do know is that “justice being served” has no part in it, and never did.

    I can, of course, assume what I did — what I must have done — on a routine Monday in Brooklyn Heights. I would have gotten up and showered in my strange bathroom with half a tub. I would have dressed for work; maybe a white shirt and a tie and a suit. I would have walked a block and a half to the Clark Street Station and taken an elevator 11 floors beneath the surface of the earth, ridden a train deeper still under the East River, and gotten out at Penn Station, walked across the street and taken the elevator up to the eleventh floor, and worked my way through my day before repeating the journey back to Brooklyn Heights. I must have done those things and done them without knowing it would be the last time I would do them in a heedless fashion. It was just the pattern my life had come to in all the long New York years leading to September 10.

    I can, of course, look and see what the nation and the world was concerned with on September 10. John O’Neil, the FBI’s leading counterterrorism expert was dining at Elaine’s Restaurant on the Upper East Side, and telling his fellow diners, “We’re due. And we’re due for something big. Some things have happened in Afghanistan….” O’Neill would be dead within 24 hours when the South Tower collapsed. On the same day, Iran denied, not for the first or last time, that it was trying to develop nuclear weapons. Down on Wall Street the Dow Jones index remained flat at the close of business and the New York Times wrote, not for the first or last time, of “the darkening economic outlook” while noting that most economists didn’t “anticipate a full-blown recession.” Overall the hottest news story in the nation concerned Michael Jordan’s pending return to professional basketball. The news that day was a case of the banal overshadowing the mundane.…”

    https://americandigest.org/september-10-2001-make-no-mistake-not-revenge-hes-reckoning/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  12. The president’s plan is certainly well intentioned.

    No, it’s a craven political power grab.

    Twitter’s top U.S. trends last night had “#IwillNOTComply” at No. 6 — with the NFL’s season kickoff in the top four slots, followed by “Big Brother” on CBS at No. 5.

    #VaccineMandate was No. 8, with #DoNotComply as a trend.

    When asked for your papers #DoNotComply.

    “While I support the vaccine and have received it, Americans have the right to exercise personal choice when it comes to their health,” said Republican U.S. Senator Ted Cruz. “Getting the vaccine is a decision to be made in consultation with one’s doctor, not forced on Americans by the government.”

    +1 for Ted

    Anyway, crazy aside, this is so true:

    In other words; If you’d do what we told you willingly we wouldn’t have to force you.

    What if the woman didn’t get an abortion at all? What if she miscarried

    I can smell that speculative bit of garage all the way across the interwebs. What if space aliens took the baby for research?

    I would say I’m embarrassed for French and Goldberg but you’d know I was lying.

    A young friend of mine took a heap of scorn from colleagues when they found out that she had received a COVID-19 vaccination. WTF??

    So, assuming by “heap” you mean something more than “wasn’t enthusiastically supportive” and by “scorn” you mean something other than “didn’t validate my life choices” and by “colleagues” you mean real people; you made it political and are surprised that it got political? Next, you’ll be surprised at the violence after taking people’s freedoms and threatening their livelihoods.

    frosty (f27e97)

  13. Note to commenters: The Weekend Open Thread is for you to link reports and news items that you think will interest other readers and see if a discussion ensues. I won’t catch all of the pertinent news of the day or week, and will post what I’ve been reading and find interesting. Consider them jumping off points for you to follow-up on, if so inclined. Otherwise, fee free to post your own links. If there is dissatisfaction with what I post, please also feel free to contact our host whose email address is on the right sidebar. Thanks.

    Dana (174549)

  14. the possibility that the day’s gatherings would turn into a mass-casualty event

    I guarantee you that if Senators and Congressfolk had been directly attacked by a mob, the Uzis would have come out. So, Alisha Babbitt for the greater good.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  15. https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/09/doj-files-baseless-suit-against-texas-over-its-abortion-law.php

    Whatever one’s views of the Texas law, the DOJ’s suit is baseless. Its filing demonstrates that under Joe Biden and Merrick Garland, the DOJ has become a hyper-partisan, unprincipled, and lawless tool of the left.

    The Department of Justice lacks authority to file any lawsuit unless a statute grants litigation authority to the Attorney General. The DOJ’s complaint cites no statute granting such authority.

    None exists. Otherwise the DOJ would have cited it.

    Merrick Garland may consider the Texas statute unconstitutional. He may be right. But he lacks the free-standing authority to challenge statutes he deems unconstitutional, no matter how much the Democrats’ leftist base clamors for him to do so.

    Congress has enacted various statutes that authorize particular kinds of enforcement actions to remedy violations of the Constitution. E.g., 18 U.S.C. 242; 42 U.S.C. 2000c-6; 34 U.S.C. 12601. If the DOJ can bring a suit like this one, which is supported by no such statute, Congress wouldn’t have enacted these statutes because the DOJ already had authority to bring federal court litigation for any violation of the Constitution.

    The DOJ’s lawsuit is abusive. It lacks a sound basis in the law.

    Dana,

    how can you call this suit unsurprising without mentioning it’s clear illegality?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  16. Comments from some governors:

    “The COVID-19 vaccines are safe and effective tools to prevent the disease, but getting the vaccine is and should be a choice,” Arizona Gov. Doug Ducey said in a statement. “These mandates are outrageous. They will never stand up in court. We must and will push back.”

    Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp wrote on Twitter, “I will pursue every legal option available to the state of Georgia to stop this blatantly unlawful overreach by the Biden administration.”

    South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem wrote on Twitter, “South Dakota will stand up to defend freedom. @JoeBiden see you in court.” She later shared another Twitter post saying her legal team is prepared to stand up to the Biden administration’s mandates.

    Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey (in part): “I support the science and encourage folks taking the vaccine. However, I am absolutely against a government mandate on the vaccine, which is why I signed the vaccine passport ban into law here in Alabama. This is not the role of the government.”

    Alaska Gov. Mike Dunleavy: “This is ridiculous and unenforceable. If there was ever a case for the 25th Amendment…”

    Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (at a press conference): “I do not believe that people should lose their jobs over this issue, and we will fight that. If they try to do that through a rule like the Department of Labor, I don’t think they have the legal authority to do that, but we obviously would want to support protections for people who are just trying to earn a living.”

    Iowa Gov. Kim Reynolds: “President Biden is taking dangerous and unprecedented steps to insert the federal government even further into our lives while dismissing the ability of Iowans and Americans to make healthcare decisions for themselves. Biden’s plan will only worsen our workforce shortage and further limit our economic recovery. As I’ve said all along, I believe and trust in Iowans to make the best health decisions for themselves and their families. It’s time for President Biden to do the same. Enough is enough.”

    Missouri Gov. Mike Parson (in part): “Vaccination protects us from serious illness, but the decision to get vaccinated is a private health care decision that should remain as such. My administration will always fight back against federal power grabs and government overreach that threatens to limit our freedoms.”

    Mississippi Gov. Tate Reeves: “The President has no authority to require that Americans inject themselves because of their employment at a private business. The vaccine itself is life-saving, but this unconstitutional move is terrifying. This is still America, and we still believe in freedom from tyrants.”

    Montana Gov. Greg Gianforte: “President Biden’s vaccination mandate is unlawful and un-American. We are committed to protecting Montanans’ freedoms and liberties against this gross federal overreach.”

    Nebraska Gov. Pete Ricketts: “President Biden’s announcement is a stunning violation of personal freedom and abuse of the federal government’s power. This plan isn’t about public health—this is about government control and taking away personal liberties.”

    North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum: “President Biden’s misguided plan steers our country down a dangerous path away from states’ rights and the freedom of private businesses to make their own decisions on vaccinations. We stand opposed to this blatant federal overreach.”

    Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt: “It is not the government’s role to dictate to private businesses what to do. Once again President Biden is demonstrating his complete disregard for individual freedoms and states’ rights. As long as I am governor, there will be no government vaccine mandates in Oklahoma. My administration will continue to defend Oklahoma values and fight back against the Biden administration’s federal overreach.”

    South Carolina Gov. Henry McMaster: “The American Dream has turned into a nightmare under President Biden and the radical Democrats. They have declared war against capitalism, thumbed their noses at the Constitution, and empowered our enemies abroad. Rest assured, we will fight them to the gates of hell to protect the liberty and livelihood of every South Carolinian.”

    Tennessee Gov. Bill Lee: “‘This is not about freedom’ is a phrase that should never come out of a U.S. President’s mouth. For a fight that requires working together, a lot of cynical and divisive edicts came out of the White House today pitting the vaccinated against the unvaccinated, businesses against employees, and the federal government against states.”

    Texas Gov. Greg Abbott: “Biden’s vaccine mandate is an assault on private businesses. I issued an Executive Order protecting Texans’ right to choose whether they get the COVID vaccine & added it to the special session agenda. Texas is already working to halt this power grab.”

    Wyoming Gov. Mark Gordon (in part): “I have asked the Attorney General to stand prepared to take all actions to oppose this administration’s unconstitutional overreach of executive power. It has no place in America. Not now, and not ever.”

    Also of note; the state motto of NH is still “Live Free or Die”. No word on whether they’re considering updating that to “Live Vaxxed, or Die”.

    frosty (f27e97)

  17. If the dweller in chief and his mafia were serious about everyone being vaxed he would cut off welfare until proof of injection.

    mg (8cbc69)

  18. “Republicans think that he’s made even pro-vax conservatives into ‘anti-vax mandate’ Americans.”

    Well, I think this vaxx mandate, reaching down to private firms, breaks through a few previous barriers. That he exempts the postal service puts the lie to all claims of emergency.

    I DO think that Biden should have mandated vaccines within the federal work force months ago. He probably could have done so with federal contractors, too. If he wanted OSHA to craft a rule regarding vaccines for the private workforce, he could have gotten them started on that months ago, too.

    Demanding an emergency rule for people he has no direct power over, while exempting some where he does have authority, seems a bit of a stretch. And what about state workers? Are they immune to federal regulation where private workers are not? How is that? Are the People not sovereign?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  19. Note to commenters: The Weekend Open Thread is for you to link reports and news items that you think will interest other readers and see if a discussion ensues. I won’t catch all of the pertinent news of the day or week, and will post what I’ve been reading and find interesting. Consider them jumping off points for you to follow-up on, if so inclined. Otherwise, fee free to post your own links. If there is dissatisfaction with what I post, please also feel free to contact our host whose email address is on the right sidebar. Thanks.

    Dana (174549) — 9/10/2021 @ 12:32 pm

    Thank you for taking the time do this. I enjoy reading and participating in it.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  20. If the dweller in chief and his mafia were serious about everyone being vaxed he would cut off welfare until proof of injection.

    I think food stamps would be sufficient, and it is a federal program. To much complexity when you say “welfare” categorically. But most welfare recipients get food stamps.

    And Biden has done a yeoman job getting me to agree with mg.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  21. Federal UI assistance, too. In fact, were I a governor, I’d just apply it to UI and blame that on Biden.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  22. Portland State professor who quit woke ‘dogma factory’ university after being persecuted for telling students to think for themselves slams ‘liberal media’ for ignoring his resignation

    The Portland State University professor who resigned with a scathing public letter over the university’s ‘wokeism’ is calling out the liberal media who he says has ignored covering his resignation.

    Peter Boghossian was a full-time assistant professor of philosophy at Portland State University for 10 years until his resignation letter was published on Wednesday, calling the college a ‘social justice factory’ that drives ‘intolerance of divergent beliefs’.

    His resignation – revealed by Bari Weiss in her Common Sense substack – has been covered by publications including Fox News and The New York Post, but Boghossian has called out the ‘liberal media’ for failing to delve into his story.

    Boghossian has since received support for his letter from conservative personalities, including podcast host and former TV host Megyn Kelly, comedian Rob Schneider, Fox commentator Tammy Bruce and historian Niall Ferguson.

    Other than Fox News, the New York Post and New York Daily News have been the only major publications to cover the resignation so far.

    In an op-ed for the Daily News, Jonathan Zimmerman commented on the hypocrisy of left-wing commentators silence on the matter.

    ‘We can’t have it both ways. If we want to resist the GOP effort to muzzle our schools and universities, we also need to condemn left-wing attacks on free speech and exchange,’ he wrote. ‘You can’t credibly accuse the other team of censorship when your own side is engaging in it, too.’

    The ultra woke antifa-coddling The Oregonian, with offices just blocks away from PSU has refused to cover the story. They had run stories on Boghossian previously when they thought he was a lefty professor challenging student group think.

    JF (e1156d)

  23. @13. Dana!!! Post more of your photos at the end of your postings.

    They really are magnificent pieces of art and brighten up the ambience of these times.

    You’ve got a really good eye.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  24. @18 yes, and crack down on unvaxxed illegals, rather than “catch and release”

    the mandate isn’t “well intentioned”, it’s hypocrisy and wholly political

    JF (e1156d)

  25. If the dweller in chief and his mafia were serious about everyone being vaxed he would cut off welfare until proof of injection.

    Or meet every illegal crossing the border w/a syringe full of goop instead of a bottle of water.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  26. Whatever your feelings on abortion, a calm look at the TX law will tell you that it’s insane. You’d probalby oppose any similar law allowing anyone, harmed or not, in state or not, having contact with you or not, to sue you for statutory damages for: Owning a gun, driving a truck or SUV, being gay, or Jewish or Muslim, or otherwise being an unfavored minority.

    The theory is that, even though the Courts have said that something is a right, so long as it isn’t the STATE doing the persecuting, the persecution and one-sided legal “protection” are OK.

    This is the same theory, pretty much, that allowed lynching and Jim Crow. See US v Cruikshank (1876) for a perfect example.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  27. Wonder if Joe ever lectured Beau like he does America?

    He obviously wasn’t able to persuade Hunter.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  28. It takes a hooker to persuade Hunter.

    mg (8cbc69)

  29. NJRob: “how can you call this suit unsurprising without mentioning it’s clear illegality?”

    I may be stretching here, but maybe powerlineblog may not be the definitive word on “illegality”. The theory the DOJ is using is that Texas cannot interfere with the duties of the federal government…where multiple federal programs “abet” abortion which can now violate SB8. Examples include Bureau of Prisons, Job Corps, and Medicare/Medicaid in cases of rape or incest….which are not exempted from SB8.

    They also argue that they can sue the state under the supremacy clause for violating individuals’ 14A rights…since the state has de facto created agents of the state to enforce the law. This is obviously still a bit vague…..who exactly is being enjoined…..but I can’t imagine that the SC wants other such mischief….where speech rights (or add in your favorite right) are for instance squelched because of fear of civil suit…..even for the time it takes for a suit to be engaged.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  30. 19. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/10/2021 @ 12:58 pm

    Well, I think this vaxx mandate, reaching down to private firm
    It’s not a mandate on private firms!

    Biden;s press office was just trying to fool the news media about that. They can choose testing instead or their employer can allow it at any rate.

    Demanding an emergency rule for people he has no direct power over, while exempting some where he does have authority,

    He didn’t do that. He has no direct power over the USPS. Or he coud have fired the Republican Postmaster General.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  31. Adkai Stevenson III died.

    I knew about his 1986 campaign frpr Governor which was destroyed by Lyndon LaRouche having one of his people win the Dem nomination for Lt Gov and knew he was a Senator from 1970 to 1980 but did not know he was one of the last persons who was subject to a draft for president campaign (in 1976 by Mayor Daley) or that he ran for Governor also in 1982.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/07/us/politics/adlai-stevenson-3d-dead.html

    Talk of a Stevenson run for the presidency in 1976 soon began, fueled by Mayor Daley, who resented the senator’s liberal reforms but who knew a vote-getter when he saw one. The senator declined to campaign, but as the nominating process got underway, Daley forces ran him as a favorite son candidate.

    I remember how Jimmy Carter got Mayor Daley to agree that if won Ohio, heshould get the nomination. Ohio was the only one of the 3 big states up that day, California, New Jersey and Ohio, where Jimmy Carter stood a chance and his campaign there consisted of arguing that the nominee should be someone who ran in the primaries; the alternative to him was Hubert Humphrey; and Hubert Humphrey was not running in the primaries.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  32. . . . whereas others proceed worthwhile associations with establishments starting from the New Civil Liberties Alliance, a right-leaning public-interest litigation group. . .”

    Take it from somebody who just searched on that term when I tell you that the New York Times has never applied that description to, for instance, the ACLU or the NAACP or NARAL or any other left-leaning organization with desks full of lawyers happily filing lawsuits. In fact, the only time it would appear the paper has used it in the last two decades is to describe a left-leaning group who was suing the Bush Administration over various Patriot Act and War on Terror issues, after which they ran a correction saying that they meant to write “a public citizen litigation group.”

    JVW (ee64e4)

  33. JF (e1156d) — 9/10/2021 @ 1:05 pm-

    I had to check to see if your link was to the Babylon Bee…….

    Outside of certain circles, who cares? It was a personal decision of his to resign. Now if he had been fired…..people still wouldn’t care.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  34. @35 yeah Rip, leftists like you don’t care

    that was the point

    JF (e1156d)

  35. Just two days before armed rioters stormed and ransacked the Capitol, about 300 law enforcement officials got on a conference call to talk about the possibility that Donald Trump’s supporters would turn violent on Jan. 6. They specifically discussed the possibility that the day’s gatherings would turn into a mass-casualty event, and they made plans on how to communicate with each other if that happened.

    But where did they anticipate the violence?

    I believe checking will show you it was in the streets and between demonstrators and counterdemonstrators. Not the Capitol, where they eventually determined that there would not even be a demonstration.

    Now there’s something really peculiar detailed in the Senate report:

    https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/HSGAC&RulesFullReport_ExaminingU.S.CapitolAttack.pdf

    In the days following the issuance of the January 3 Special Assessment, IICD issued three DIRs—none of which reflected the likelihood of violence described in the January 3 Special Assessment or more broadly known within IICD. In fact, the January 4, January 5, and January 6 DIRs assessed the probability of acts of civil disobedience from the planned protests across all of Washington, D.C. as “Remote” to “Improbable.”261 Regarding a “Million MAGA March/US Capitol,” the report assigned a probability of “Improbable,” adding as context, “it [is] possible the Million Magi [sic] March folks could organize a demonstration on USCP grounds. Women for America First has permitted on USCP grounds and Freedom Plaza parade permit through MPD and has been the permitted portion of previous Million MAGA Marches.”262 The
    Stop the Steal event was assigned a probability of “Highly Improbable” given that “no further
    information has been found to the exact actions planned by this group.”263 The Women for
    America First event planned for the Ellipse also received a “Highly Improbable” rating, but the
    report contained no explanation or context as to why this rating was assigned.

    The Mayor of Washingoton DC and others were mostly successful in calling off any counter-demonstrations.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  36. frosty (f27e97) — 9/10/2021 @ 12:26 pm (Edit)

    frosty, you can make an argument without being argumentative. I’m not at all a fan of the tone you took with Dana in the comment I am referencing above.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  37. Or meet every illegal crossing the border w/a syringe full of goop

    Oddly, my shot wasn’t “goop.” You must have got yours at Walmart.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  38. Larry Elder prepares for California recall loss with lawyers, voter fraud website
    ……..
    Elder told reporters in Los Angeles on Wednesday that he believes “there might very well be shenanigans” in the recall election, but that he expects to win anyway because “so many Californians are angry about what’s going on,” according to CNN.
    …….
    A link on Elder’s campaign website, labeled as “report election incident,” takes users to a form to report incidents of voter fraud and sign a petition to investigate the results of the recall.

    Some of the language on the site is written as though Newsom has already won. The page invites them to sign a petition to investigate the “twisted” results of the recall.

    “We implore you…to join us in this fight as you are able, primarily by signing our petition demanding a special session of the California legislature to investigate and ameliorate the twisted results of this 2021 Recall Election of Governor Gavin Newsom,” the website says.

    The petition states that voters who use “improperly formed ballots” have an advantage over those who vote at the polls and that instances of “undocumented ballots” were discovered prior to Sept. 14. It offers no evidence for either of those claims.

    Some of the language on the site is written as though Newsom has already won. The page invites them to sign a petition to investigate the “twisted” results of the recall.

    “We implore you…to join us in this fight as you are able, primarily by signing our petition demanding a special session of the California legislature to investigate and ameliorate the twisted results of this 2021 Recall Election of Governor Gavin Newsom,” the website says.

    It also states that, if there is an audit of the recall election, county election officials should not be a part of the recount, because doing so would be similar to “allowing an alleged criminal to examine the crime scene,” the petition says.

    Finally, the petition claims, without evidence, that “statistical analyses used to detect fraud in elections held in 3rd-world nations (such as Russia, Venezuela, and Iran) have detected fraud in California resulting in Governor Gavin Newsom being reinstated as governor.”
    ……….
    The Elder campaign did not respond to questions about the website.
    ………
    …….. Of the 16 states where more than half of voters cast mail ballots in 2020, Trump won nine, according to The New York Times.

    No matter which voting methods are used, Democrats have dominated California elections for over a decade. The last time a Republican was elected to statewide office was in 2006, when former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger won reelection.
    …….,,,,
    Former President Donald Trump has joined the conversation, telling Newsmax this week that he believes the California recall election is “rigged” and repeating complaints he made about mail-in ballots last year.

    “It’s probably rigged,” he said. “The ballots… are mail-in ballots…. The one thing they are good at is rigging elections, so I predict it’s a rigged election.”
    ……..,.
    Not a lot of confidence in your own campaign if you claim there’s voter fraud even before the election results.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  39. Continuing, near the bottom of page 45:

    It is clear that IICD intelligence products, in particular the January 3 Special Assessment analysis that “Congress itself is the target on the 6th” and its warning about the “significantly dangerous situation for law enforcement and the general public alike,” were not incorporated in subsequent intelligence documents. One explanation given to the Committees for why the

    ——————————–
    Page 46

    January 3 Special Assessment was not incorporated into the DIRs is because a single analyst
    prepared and disseminated the DIRs without supervisory review.265

    Footnote 262:

    262 INTELLIGENCE & INTERAGENCY COORDINATION DIV., U.S. CAPITOL POLICE, DAILY INTELLIGENCE REPORT (Jan. 6, 2021) (on file with the Committees). To demonstrate on Capitol grounds, individuals or groups must submit a permit to and receive approval from USCP’s Special Event Section, a component of USCP’s Command and Coordination Bureau within the Uniformed Operations function. The Special Events Section approved six permits for January 6, each with a limit of 50 participants due to the COVID-19 pandemic. Pittman Interview (Apr. 20, 2021), supra note 8, at 37:10–25. IICD’s Assistant Director expressed her concerns about certain permits to an
    Executive Officer in the Protective Services Bureau, noting that “the permit requests . . . are being used as proxies for Stop the Steal” and “may also be involved with organizations that may be planning trouble on [January 6].” Email from IICD Official to Protective Services Bureau Official (Dec. 31, 2020, 6:00 PM) (on file with the Committees). Ms. Pittman acknowledged she was aware of the concern, but she believed IICD vetted the permit requests and confirmed that the groups who had been granted permits were not affiliated with Stop the Steal.

    Pittman Interview (Apr. 20, 2021), supra note 8, at 79:1–19

    This protest was advertised on the web:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20210105002231/https://wildprotest.com

    Alex Jones with Ali Alexander standing beside him was videotaped urging people to go see president Trump speak.

    Now a permit may have been achieved but under false pretenses. I don’t think Nancy Pelosi wants to go into that.

    A rally did indeed take place, in addition to the storming of the Capitol, but was dominated by anti-vaxxers.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/26/us/far-right-extremism-anti-vaccine.html

    On Jan. 6, while rioters advanced on the Capitol, numerous leading figures in the anti-vaccination movement were onstage nearby, holding their own rally to attack both the election results and Covid-19 vaccinations.

    Events overshadowed their protest, but at least one outspoken activist, Dr. Simone Gold of Beverly Hills, Calif., was charged with breaching the Capitol. She called her arrest an attack on free speech. She was one of several doctors who appeared in a video last year spreading misleading claims about the coronavirus. Mr. Trump shared a version of the video, which Facebook, YouTube and Twitter removed after millions of viewers watched it.

    Trump, is of course not an anti-vaxxer, but he’ll take support from wherever it comes.

    This is one of those things (the anti-vax connection to Jan 6) that makes me think Russia may have been behind it.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  40. @35 yeah Rip, leftists like you don’t care

    that was the point

    Given he was under investigation for academic fraud and he was untenured, he jumped ship and made a small splash, rather being fired.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  41. They have been talking on the radio and elsewhere about the anniversary of September 11 since at least late Wednesday. I am not sure why the 20th anniversary is treated as so important an anniversary – but I feel it too.

    Is it because the time between the end of World War I and the start of World War II was just a little over 20 years? Or is 20 years the shortest length of time that can be called a generation?

    I can’t quite put my finger on it.

    It is not what happened this year in Afghanistan because it started being treated as more important I think before.

    Was it the interruption because of the pandemic?

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  42. Psaki Refuses To Explain Why American Workers Are Required To Be Vaccinated But Migrants Are Not

    White House press secretary Jen Psaki refused to explain why American workers are required to be vaccinated against COVID-19 but migrants coming across the southern border are not.

    Fox News White House Correspondent Peter Doocy pressed Psaki on the administration’s new vaccine mandate, which requires all businesses that employ over 100 people to ensure workers are vaccinated or test them weekly. Businesses that fail to comply will face fines of up to $13,600 per violation.

    “It is a requirement for people at a business with more than 100 people. It is not a requirement for migrants at the southern border. Why?” Doocy asked.

    “That’s correct,” Psaki responded, before moving on to the next question.

    JF (e1156d)

  43. President Emmanuel Macron of France said that France will stay in Iraq even if he United States pulls out its troops.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/macron-vows-french-troops-will-remain-in-iraq-even-if-us-withdraws

    (Aug. 29)

    The Taliban’s takeover of Afghanistan overshadowed a summit in Baghdad on Saturday grouping key regional leaders as well as French President Emmanuel Macron who vowed his country would stand firm in Iraq…

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  44. Cnn reports new details on infamous bush memo “bin ladin determind to attack in america with airplanes.” aug. 2021. Telling ag ashcroft not to fly commercial. Never forget bush knew. We will need a second pearl harbor before the american people will allow us to attack iraq. Progress for a new american century (1998)

    asset (b8ddc9)

  45. 11 people died in basement apartments in New York City – a small fraction of the illegal apartments, (50,000 to 100,000 people live in them) but still maybe worth noticing. At least to the truly dangerous ones – maybe in flood zones.

    New York City had a program to bring these apartments up to code (ceiling heights – which could entail digging down, window sizes and more than one exit).but its funding was cut.

    https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-bills-balderdash-on-basements-20210909-s6shlpumljf3ppfpwsuj3lbqay-story.html

    …The mayor forgot to mention that his own administration actually operated — but then almost completely defunded — a pilot program in which the city, community-based organizations and private landlords collaborate on ways to bring basement apartments up to code. The program includes loans, some of them forgivable, of up to $120,000 to help small landlords renovate and reconfigure basement units.

    Hundreds applied, but the de Blasio administration cut 92% of the program’s $1.2 million budget last year when the pandemic struck, when only the first eight units had been completed. That makes the drownings an especially bitter pill to swallow.

    “We were understandably stricken. We had this one elderly man that we know who died in a basement in Cypress Hills,” says Michelle Neugebauer, executive director of the Cypress Hills Local Development Corp., one of the groups running the pilot program. “It’s this incredible tragedy. And we keep thinking: ‘Wow, if we could have really had the full funding, maybe we could have gotten further. Maybe we could have prevented some loss of life if there was this investment in small homes.’ ”

    Neugebauer’s colleague, Ryan Chavez, worked directly with hundreds of applicants.

    “There was this long pipeline of homeowners that we were working with,” he told me, starting with 900 applicants from Brooklyn’s Community Board 5 that later got whittled down to 300. “At the time that our program was cut, we had visited around a hundred basements. We were planning on doing many more,” he said.

    No two situations are the same, according to Chavez. “The program is focused on bringing these units up to code and to bring just essential health and safety standards to these apartments. Making sure that they had sufficient egress, to make sure that they had sufficient light and ventilation — the basic health and safety provisions that you would expect in any housing,” he said.

    Sometimes the solution might be to install a new door and stairway. In other cases, the floor might need to be excavated to create the required minimum seven-foot ceiling height. Sprinkler systems were a must in nearly all cases, said Chavez.

    Why? That ruins things. Most apartments don’t have them.

    They’d rather waste the money on things that accomplish nothing.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  46. @42 Rip, it obviously irks you and your leftist comrades that he didn’t take “canine rape culture” seriously and made a clever hoax out of it

    so you dishonestly go along with the “academic fraud” diktat

    and see nothing amiss with the anti-free speech intimidation tactics used against him

    cuz you just have a knack for confirming the ridiculous truth behind babylon bee type satire

    JF (e1156d)

  47. New poll finds Newsom could easily beat recall thanks to motivated Democrats
    ………
    According to a UC Berkeley Institute of Governmental Studies poll cosponsored by the Los Angeles Times released Friday, 60.1% of likely voters surveyed oppose recalling Newsom compared with 38.5% in favor of ousting the governor. Fewer than 2% of likely voters remained undecided or declined to answer, suggesting the issue is largely settled in the minds of California voters.
    ………
    The poll found that 65% of likely voters — and 89% of likely Democratic voters and 64% of independent voters — thought electing a conservative Republican governor would threaten the state’s well-established progressive policies on climate change, immigration, healthcare and abortion.

    “[The Newsom campaign] changed the whole dynamic of the vote,” (Mark DiCamillo, director of the poll) said. “It’s raised fear among voters and I think that fear has increased the engagement of Democrats.”
    ………
    The Berkeley survey also found that, by almost 2-1, likely voters rejected the notion that Newsom overstepped his authority as governor in his response to the COVID-19 pandemic, one of the main campaign arguments used by the GOP field of candidates hoping to replace him.
    ………
    The new poll found that (Larry) Elder dominates the field of top replacement candidates. When asked to pick their first choice among the replacement candidates, 38% of likely voters preferred Elder — up from 18% in July. Democrat Kevin Paffrath, a social media personality who has more than 1.6 million followers for his personal finance videos on YouTube, came in a distant second with 10%.

    Among other Republicans, former San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer was backed by 8% of likely voters, Rancho Santa Fe businessman John Cox, who was trounced by Newsom in the 2018 gubernatorial election, and Assemblyman Kevin Kiley of Rocklin were both backed by 4% of likely voters. Reality television star …….Caitlyn Jenner came in at 1%.
    ……….
    Ballots have already been mailed to all California registered voters. The mail ballot returns so far show that more than twice as many Democrats have voted as Republicans, according to state officials and political data researchers.

    By contrast, among the much smaller proportion of voters who intend to cast ballots in person, most are voting to recall the governor.
    ……….
    Poll cross tabs. This poll is consistent with the recent Trafalgar and PPIC polls.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  48. I think it is the United States that is holding up the departure of the planes from Mazar-e-Sharif.

    Of course the Taliban Pakistani intelligence is manipulating the system but
    the United States and other countries could issue all persons aboard the planes documents to travel.

    Meanwhile the non-Afghans wont let the Afghans be separated.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  49. One quarter of Afghanistan;s Air Force landed in Uzbekistan after Aug 15

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  50. 46. Bush asked the question!

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  51. @42 Rip, it obviously irks you…..

    Actually I really don’t care about some drama queen no-name assistant professor who feels he’s not getting enough attention. Seriously, I never heard of him until he resigned. Unlike, say, Donald Kagan, who stuck it out and fought the good fight at Yale for over 40 years.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  52. @53 again, you captured the point of the article perfectly

    JF (e1156d)

  53. @52 Thousands of americans died because bush and the neo-cons wanted to attack iraq and needed a second pearl harbor.. Bush’s first treasury secretary wrote in his book that bush cabinet were trying to figure out a way to attack iraq at their first cabinet meeting in jan. 2021! Rumsfeld said 0n 9-11 2021 we need to bomb iraq because there are no good targets in afganistan.

    asset (b8ddc9)

  54. JVW (ee64e4) — 9/10/2021 @ 2:07 pm

    Are you referring to the last part? That’s the only part directed at a comment Dana made. The rest is directed at comments from other people she included in the post.

    For that part, I’d have to respectfully disagree. I don’t think an argument can be made against that personal anecdote that wouldn’t have an issue. Any comment other than I’m sorry your friend had difficulties runs the risk of being sarcastic or unsympathetic at best. Even the comment I included here runs that risk.

    But FWIW; Dana, I’m sorry your friend had difficulties.

    At this point, commenting on the issue further seems like digging a deeper hole and that would run afoul of the first rule of holes.

    frosty (f27e97)

  55. ‘It takes a hooker to persuade Hunter.’

    Yes. ‘Business like and professional.’

    Just like the TallyBand.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  56. Oddly, my shot wasn’t “goop.”

    Shot???

    You’re a few booster goops behind, Kevin.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  57. Fundamentally, the protection against life-threatening plague is one of the original reasons government exists. We’ve had mandatory vaccines for schoolchildren in America since before the Emancipation Proclamation. The Supreme Court has upheld that practice as constitutional for over a century, and only the political fringes believe there ought to be a debate about such matters. This is one of the few areas where government necessarily exercises power.

    further

    If you choose not to vaccinate, private and public institutions should be able to discriminate on that basis. Disneyland should be able to require proof of vaccination as a condition of entry, and so should public schools. You shouldn’t be compelled to vaccinate your child, but neither should the rest of us be compelled to pretend like you did.

    https://thefederalist.com/2015/02/03/the-insane-vaccine-debate/

    Davethulhu (7c4d94)

  58. @59 there’s a reason why it’s schoolchildren

    can you think of why?

    JF (e1156d)

  59. Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 9/10/2021 @ 2:28 pm

    They have been talking on the radio and elsewhere about the anniversary of September 11 since at least late Wednesday. I am not sure why the 20th anniversary is treated as so important an anniversary – but I feel it too.

    Have you seen the movie The Book of Eli? If you haven’t I’ll give a brief synopsis. It’s a post-apocalyptic story that features a blind man named Eli wandering the wasteland. During the course of the film, you find out that he’s carrying a bible and he’s on a quest. The protagonist finds out about the bible and he wants it.

    There are a lot of elements to the story that I think are interesting but I’m mentioning it because of your question. The protagonist wants the book because prior to the collapse it was important to people. In his view, it was used to control people and if he has it he can control people. It’s a type of cargo cult mechanism.

    I think a similar mechanism is at play with 9/11. It was a time when a bad thing happened, everyone came together for a while, and it motivated people to fight the WoT. Twenty years is a nice round number. We’ve had some bad things happen. Biden, his political allies, and I’m sure a lot of people in the media, probably think that if they can say the magic words and invoke the spirit of 9/11 they can get the power to “bring everyone together”. It may not even be an intentional effort but I suspect it is.

    I haven’t seen it yet but I’ve been out of the news loop for a bit lately. Has anyone started saying we should set our political differences aside on 9/11? I’m expecting that with an additional sentiment that we should get on board fighting COVID like we did with the WoT.

    frosty (f27e97)

  60. I can’t remember any other 9/11 anniversary where they ran so much about it on the 10th.

    Of course this time it occurs on a Saturday and it only happened once before, in 2010. Friday has been the day of the anniversary three times.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  61. Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 9/10/2021 @ 3:30 pm

    I have been told that the calendar repeats every 11 years, so…

    felipe (484255)

  62. One clue before Sept 11 that an attack was coming was that the training camps in Afghanistan shut down some weeks before (they expected retaliation)

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  63. I have updated this with an added clarification:

    Anyway, crazy aside [Ed. for clarification: I am referring to Josh Mandel]

    While I disagree with the other Republicans, it is Mandel whom I believe is really bonkers.

    Dana (174549)


  64. They have been talking on the radio and elsewhere about the anniversary of September 11 since at least late Wednesday. I am not sure why the 20th anniversary is treated as so important an anniversary – but I feel it too

    .

    End of the second decade, I’m sure there was more discussion about where we’ve been and what the future will be in 2010. Also, the end of the US involvement in Afghanistan occurring at the same time also has something to do with it. Hopefully people will still remember in 2051.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  65. CBS has a correpondent on the Pakistan Afghanistan border. Not only do people have to get through the Taliban they have to get permission to go into Pakistan.

    Pakistan is not letting anyone through without avisa for Pakistan or somewhere else except thosr with urgent medical needs.

    This is what the world has come to.

    Meanwhile about 15% of the population of Venezuela (close to the 38 million pop of Afghanistan) has left their country over the last few years or longer and people are surviving better inside the country due to de facto dollarization. They used to be able t leave Afghanistan too in the 1980s abd later.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  66. Are you referring to the last part? That’s the only part directed at a comment Dana made.

    That was indeed the part to which I was referring.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  67. asset, the fact that you can’t delineate 2001 from 2021 and the fact that you are claiming the existence a recent CNN report concerning George W. Bush and John Ashcroft which can’t be found anywhere on the CNN website isn’t going to do much to burnish your pretty bad reputation for reliability around these parts.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  68. Whembly, I think you’re explanation is good, followed by “ he’s always been kind of an idiot that says dumb stuff”

    Time123 (224669)

  69. Biden’s foreign policy in a nutshell

    President Joe Biden told Chinese leader Xi Jinping late Thursday that the United States wants to “responsibly manage the competition” between the two countries, in hopes of avoiding conflict.

    Anyone else remember

    U.S. Ambassador April Glaspie told Saddam, ‘[W]e have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait.’ The U.S. State Department had earlier told Saddam that Washington had ‘no special defense or security commitments to Kuwait.’

    If you’re an anti-CCP activist in Taiwan you should book your flight now before the airport gets crowded.

    frosty (f27e97)

  70. @71 and if you’re an american in taiwan who doesn’t want to be accused of preferring to be stranded

    JF (e1156d)

  71. Pakistan is not letting anyone through without a visa for Pakistan or somewhere else except thosr with urgent medical needs.

    This is what the world has come to.

    Those who support Trump’s border enforcement policies would say that is a good thing-except for the medical care exception. I can understand Pakistan’s position, the don’t want to turn their country into an Afghan refugee camp (at least without international $) and the Afghan Taliban would use the refugee crisis as a means of supporting the Pakistani Taliban. If I was a Pakistani I wouldn’t want them to cross en masse.

    Countries have the right to regulate who comes in.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  72. @69 Are you saying a.g. ashcroft was not told to stop flying commercial? No you are not because you know its true. Cnn part was was about new reporting on the memo. I challenge you to prove any fact I stated is un true. Only the first part was from the cnn report.

    asset (022d28)

  73. How do we know for sure Hunter is vaccinated?
    I’m sure he has told everyone he is vaxxed, but anyone who trusts an addict for anything remotely serious is a fool.

    steveg (2c7127)

  74. Rip Murdock (0aa613) — 9/10/2021 @ 4:29 pm

    In this story Mexico is a brutal war torn theocracy largely influenced by rogue elements of the CIA and Trump was rejecting refugees?

    frosty (f27e97)

  75. In speech taking on Trump, Christie calls on Republicans to renounce conspiracy theories and discredit extremists “in our midst”
    ……..
    “We need to give our supporters facts that will help them put all those fantasies to rest so everyone can focus with clear minds on the issues that really matter,” Christie said. (at the Ronald Reagan Library). “We need to quit wasting our time, our energy, and our credibility on claims that won’t ever convince anyone of anything.”

    “All this lying has done harm to our nation, to our party, and to each other,” he said, and he sought to remind the audience of the Republican Party’s values, which he listed as conservatism, faith, decency, integrity, freedom, liberty, competence and truth.
    ……..
    “If the conservative cause depends on the populist appeal of one personality, or on second-rate imitations, then we’re not going anywhere. Voters looking for Republican leaders want to see independence and mettle,” Ryan said, adding, “They will not be impressed by the sight of yes-men and flatterers flocking to Mar-a-Lago.”

    Christie also went after Republicans who indulge Mr. Trump’s election claims, saying that “pretending we won when we lost is a waste of time and energy and credibility” while he urged Republican supporters to denounce the conspiracy theories and fight back against liberals with conservative ideas.
    ………
    Too little to late.
    Insert A Few Good Men quote:

    Col Jessup: (Jack Nicholson) I’ll answer the question. You want answers?

    LTJG Kaffee (Tom Cruise): I think I’m entitled to them.

    Col Jessup: You want answers?!

    LTJG Kaffee: I want the truth!

    Col Jessup: You can’t handle the truth!
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  76. “ Joe Biden knows you’re mad at him because he’s screwing everything up. He can’t stop screwing everything up, though, because he’s Joe Biden. What he can do is distract you from being mad at him by making you mad at your fellow Americans. “Hey, what are you yellin’ at me for? You should be yellin’ at the guy next to you!” The ol’ divide-and-conquer technique. It’s unpresidential and un-American, and it’s 100% Joe Biden.

    As America seethes at Biden’s disastrous failure in Afghanistan, his disastrous failure with the economy, his disastrous failure shutting down the virus like he promised, and all his other disastrous failures after a mere eight months in office, he’s finally getting tough.

    On us.

    https://jimtreacher.substack.com/p/biden-commemorates-911-by-getting?token=eyJ1c2VyX2lkIjoxODIxNjYyLCJwb3N0X2lkIjo0MTEyNTU0NywiXyI6Ik83eTlSIiwiaWF0IjoxNjMxMjg5NzgxLCJleHAiOjE2MzEyOTMzODEsImlzcyI6InB1Yi0yMDYwNjciLCJzdWIiOiJwb3N0LXJlYWN0aW9uIn0.lvPXY7ZSvkf6fKuDLtE2tRIneZYdcmYw3MC97xIxp5M

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  77. Christie also went after Republicans who indulge Mr. Trump’s election claims…

    A bridge too far for this butterball turkey; he outta ‘indulge’ at the salad bar instead.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  78. Maybe he got the single shot J and J, the once Chrysler-Plymouth but increasingly stalwart of the goops.

    urbanleftbehind (6eeddb)

  79. Rip Murdock (0aa613) — 9/10/2021 @ 4:44 pm

    This is one of those times were I can agree with everything someone says and it falls apart with a pretty simple question.

    And now what? Where are these leaders with independence and mettle that typify conservatism, faith, decency, integrity, freedom, liberty, competence and truth? Is Christie suggesting he fits that bill? Is there someone else?

    I’m guessing these R governors speaking out against the Biden mandates are yes-men and flatterers?

    frosty (f27e97)

  80. J & J will be proven to be the best of the vaccines, and Pfizer will be praised for having an even better public relations team than the Kardashians. Another thing Pfizer did smart was to rush its numbers as much as it rushed its vaccine. You can’t cook the numbers if you don’t have numbers, and Pfizer was the fustest with the mostest.

    nk (1d9030)

  81. Rip Murdock (0aa613) — 9/10/2021 @ 4:29 pm

    In this story Mexico is a brutal war torn theocracy largely influenced by rogue elements of the CIA and Trump was rejecting refugees?

    In answer to your question, no. But both the US and Pakistan have extremely violent countries on their borders; one ending a civil war, and the other (Mexico) with one of the highest murder rates in the world (29.07/100,000) and with a government cowed by transnational narco-terrorist organizations. I would also say Pakistan is a violent, theocratic, nuclear-armed state controlled by conservative Muslim clerics and its (non-rogue) military.

    Perhaps the analogy with the US-Mexican border are a stretch, but I think Trump’s policies were a good interim solution which lacked an end game. I don’t think he would argue against the Pakistani policy. I just have no problem with what the Pakistanis are doing.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  82. BTW, who else is looking forward to the havoc the vaccine mandates, government and private, will play with affirmative action and disparate impact discrimination?

    nk (1d9030)

  83. I’m guessing these R governors speaking out against the Biden mandates are yes-men and flatterers?

    It seems pretty obvious CC was speaking about Republicans who are engaged in promoting election fraud theories, like those in Arizona, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia, etc.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  84. I think someone recently mentioned the ruling upholding the $5 fine for not getting a smallpox vaccination. Here’s where that went:

    We have seen more than once that the public welfare may call upon the best citizens for their lives. It would be strange if it could not call upon those who already sap the strength of the State for these lesser sacrifices, often not felt to be such by those concerned, in order to prevent our being swamped with incompetence. It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes. Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U. S. 11. Three generations of imbeciles are enough. – Buck v. Bell (1927)

    Compulsory vaccination, sterilization, and conscription are all based on the same reasoning. Same for Korematsu. If the common good means preventing our being swamped with incompetence then there are no limits.

    frosty (f27e97)

  85. Also, this also isn’t any sort of fascism and isn’t the government trying to coerce large media companies to do the censorship for them.

    Private property and free speech right!?

    frosty (f27e97)

  86. AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 9/10/2021 @ 1:18 pm

    No statute cited. No claim for remedy. Nothing at all given them justification for their suit.

    But continue to make excuses for the rampant abuses by this fascist government.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  87. “If he could sell being a strong man it would be repugnant.”

    Your not-at-all surprising bigotry against visible forms of strength and preference for physiognomy as weak as yours is noted.

    “In this context it seems sad, but still inappropriate.”

    It’s actually worse than if he were still “strong.” Women and manlet cops are far more likely to pull the trigger on far less justified provocation than cops who can actually wrestle the suspect, for example. As in foreign policy, so it is in domestic, weak puppets in visible positions of power create distrust in the general populace and reckless, dangerous opportunism in the various agencies and power brokers, and a much higher likelihood of events that would have seemed impossible when strong men were in power. Avoid public places.

    “Because bullying statements from him are rare and out of character with his history statements”

    They are absolutely not. He’s always been Obama’s little bully boy and point man, whether it’s pressuring Ukrainians or other Senators. But now he doesn’t have any popular mandate behind him that isn’t paper-thin.

    “like that don’t evoke the same level of concern and outrage they did coming from someone that frequently and repeatedly wished people would assault his opponents and that his AG would use the DOJ to punish people.”

    False equivalence. Merrick Garland and Joe Biden are both weak tyrants who can’t even lift the letter of the law, much less the spirit of it, and Merrick has shown no signs of “independence,” he absolutely works for the DNC machine that’s pushed his baby-faced judicial activism for his entire career.

    “Note: A young friend of mine took a heap of scorn from colleagues when they found out that she had received a COVID-19 vaccination. WTF??”

    If you’d spent more time talking to normal people instead of sanitizing your personal and professional timelines from any of their influence (assuming that any still trust you) you might have known that the vaccine was made with an eye to side effects that you don’t have to worry about in the old but may definitely have to in the young.

    You might also have realized that natural immunity to a novel virus is indeed better than introduced immunity to a marker of the virus that’s likely to get mutated around due to the scale of the viral lifecycle.

    Broiologist (ac1736)

  88. this family needs your beau speech, joe

    In U.S. Drone Strike, Evidence Suggests No ISIS Bomb

    Times reporting has identified the driver as Zemari Ahmadi, a longtime worker for a U.S. aid group. The evidence suggests that his travels that day actually involved transporting colleagues to and from work. And an analysis of video feeds showed that what the military may have seen was Mr. Ahmadi and a colleague loading canisters of water into his trunk to bring home to his family.

    JF (e1156d)

  89. Unvaccinated people were 11 times more likely to die of covid-19, CDC report finds
    People who were not fully vaccinated this spring and summer were more than 10 times more likely to be hospitalized, and 11 times more likely to die of covid-19, than those who were fully vaccinated, according to one of three major studies published Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention that highlight the continued efficacy of all three vaccines amid the spread of the highly contagious delta variant.

    A second study showed that the Moderna coronavirus vaccine was more effective in preventing hospitalizations than its counterparts from Pfizer-BioNTech and Johnson & Johnson. That assessment was based on the largest U.S. study to date of the real-world effectiveness of all three vaccines, involving about 32,000 patients seen in hospitals, emergency departments and urgent-care clinics across nine states from June through early August.

    ………[P]rotection was significantly higher among Moderna vaccine recipients (95 percent) than among those who got Pfizer-BioNTech (80 percent) or Johnson & Johnson (60 percent). …….
    ……..
    ……… The data is broadly consistent with findings from other studies: The vaccines continue to provide strong protection for most people against hospitalization and death, even during the delta surge, but are less effective in protecting the oldest adults, especially those with underlying medical conditions.
    ……..
    Another CDC study shows that the vaccines endured some erosion as the delta variant became dominant, especially among adults 65 and older, but protection against severe disease and death remained strong, albeit less so in that older group. The CDC analyzed data on more than 600,000 covid-19 cases, hospitalizations and deaths among people 18 and older by vaccination status, reported from April 4 to July 17 in 13 states and cities.

    The report estimated that vaccine effectiveness against infection dropped from 90 percent in the first part of that period, when delta had not yet gained significant traction, to less than 80 percent from mid-June to mid-July, when delta began out-competing all other variants of the virus. Effectiveness against hospitalization and death showed barely any decline during the entire period.
    ……..
    The third study looked at the effectiveness of the two mRNA vaccines — Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna — among patients at five Veterans Affairs hospitals in Atlanta, New York, Houston, Los Angeles and Palo Alto, Calif., from Feb. 1 to Aug. 6. The report found that the mRNA vaccines were 87 percent effective in preventing hospitalizations and remained highly effective even during delta’s predominance.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  90. NSW (New South Wales) Health limits residents of locked-down tower block to six beers per day
    Residents in apartment blocks locked-down by NSW Health are having their alcohol deliveries policed as part of a policy to limit the number of drinks being consumed each day.
    ……..
    Residents of the social housing estate have complained that care packages sent by friends and relatives have been searched before they are delivered.
    ……..
    Residents are allowed to receive a ration of one of the following: six beers or pre-mixed drinks, one bottle of wine, or one 375ml bottle of spirits.

    Excess alcohol is being confiscated until lockdown rules are lifted.

    Residents can consult with a clinician if they think they need more than the allowed limit.
    …….
    Australia has gone just too far. But at least there is a medical exception, I’m sure most will need more than the allowed limit. /sarc

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  91. @87, seems bullying, Amazon should tell them to kiss off.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  92. This is not about freedom or personal choice

    Biden’s new speechwriter

    F— them. F— their freedom

    Psaki should start ending her press conferences with baba booey

    frosty (f27e97)

  93. “You might also have realized that natural immunity to a novel virus is indeed better than introduced immunity to a marker of the virus that’s likely to get mutated around due to the scale of the viral lifecycle.”

    Wow, where can I get a shot of natural immunity?

    Davethulhu (7c4d94)

  94. Postal uniforms will be the fashion statement heading into 2022.
    Get the shoulder patch at any army-navy store.

    mg (8cbc69)

  95. Indeed, frosty.

    mg (8cbc69)

  96. Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/10/2021 @ 6:19 pm

    I’m guessing you’ve no idea how much of Amazon’s business is fedgov? Here’s an old article. And that’s just fedgov and ignoring the IC stuff.

    There is no version of Amazon telling them to kiss off.

    frosty (f27e97)

  97. Liz Cheney is probably out.
    Trump already brought it and it looks like he is going to see Cheney ride off into the Northern Virginia sunset to try to reinvent herself. I suggest a nice TX dove hunt with her financial backers

    steveg (2c7127)

  98. Dana – To avoid the problems your young friend ran into, at least a few people are getting secret vaccinations.

    (And I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that at least a few people are claiming to their friends and families that they have been vaccinated, when they haven’t been.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  99. “The officials were so prepared for chaos that they even had a hashtag”
    Oh FFS.
    7 years after the hashtag #BringBackOurGirls was promoted, 1/3 of the girls are still missing, others are dead. But if you ask the media, it was a fantastic success, just like #CERTUNREST2021

    How about a hashtag for US Citizens and Permanent Residents trapped in Afghanistan #SOLSuckersBidenHarris2020

    steveg (2c7127)

  100. No statute cited. No claim for remedy. Nothing at all given them justification for their suit.

    But continue to make excuses for the rampant abuses by this fascist government.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/10/2021 @ 6:01 pmL

    So many concerns for how they fight an unjust law that expands government power. No concerns about the unjust law itself. This really makes your claims about the vaccine mandate being “fascism” seem insincere.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  101. Things that make you go “H’mmm”.

    When I did a search for “secret vaccinations” on Google, I got five similar sources for the story I linked to. After those came Google’s “Common questions” — and then what appears to be an anti-vax piece by a chiropractor.

    (No, I didn’t read it, but here is the link, if you want to.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  102. Signs

    The signs say: “UNLAWFUL GATHERINGS ARE NOT PERMITTED.”

    So I put my mask up under my hat and I went in to ask them why
    They said “you look like a fine upstanding old man, got no beefs with you”
    So I took out my paste and said “Imagine that… now you go sh*t in yer shoe”

    Signs Signs
    Everywhere a sign
    Fu*king up the scenery
    Breaking my mind
    Take this, don’t take that
    Can’t you read the sign

    Oh Say now mister Can’t you read
    You got to have a shot and a card to get a seat
    You can’t watch Don’t take a seat You ain’t supposed to be here
    And the sign says “You got to have a vaccination card to get inside”
    Huh!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  103. > And what about state workers? Are they immune to federal regulation where private workers are not?

    Probably. I think that’s the implication of Printz, at any rate.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  104. “To test your citizens, to drive them to the vaccination clinic, and to hear the lamentations of their girlie-men.” — Ginger Cohen

    Opinion: The hyperbolic GOP reaction to Biden’s vaccine mandate shows why it’s necessary

    If there was any doubt about the necessity of President Biden’s expanded vaccine mandate for millions of Americans, it was dispelled by the hyperbolic Republican reaction to his Thursday announcement. “Republicans explode with fury,” noted Fox “News” Channel. Republican governors threatened to file suit to stop what Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp (R) called ”this blatantly unlawful overreach.” Fox News accused Biden of being “an authoritarian” and declaring “war on millions of Americans.” Breitbart claims he went “full totalitarian” and the Federalist called it a “fascist move.”

    Blinded by partisanship and populism, Republicans have lost all perspective. The crux of their argument — to the extent that they have one — is that the Labor Department’s Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has no right to tell companies with at least 100 employees that workers must either get tested weekly for covid-19 or present proof of vaccination. This is the same OSHA that has issued myriad regulations over the years governing such aspects of workplace safety as the placement of step bolts. (“The employer must ensure . . . step bolts are uniformly spaced at a vertical distance of not less than 12 inches (30 cm) and not more than 18 inches (46 cm) apart.”)

    I have no idea how many workers have been injured by misplaced step bolts — frankly, I’m not even sure what step bolts are — but I am guessing it is not many. I do know, however, how many Americans have been killed by covid-19: 655,000 and counting. If OSHA can protect against the menace of step bolts, I’m pretty sure it can protect against the deadliest pandemic in a century.

    nk (1d9030)

  105. >But continue to make excuses for the rampant abuses by this fascist government.

    Texas passed a law that in essence deputizes private citizens to snoop on their neighbors and then *harass* them with lawsuits as punishment for exercising federally protected rights, and it’s the federal government which is being fascist?

    The legal technology in the Texas law is an absolute abomination. In principle, if it stands, it means the end of federal protection of individual rights against state abuses. California could use the same legal structure to go after gun owners. Any state could use the same structure to prohibit open worship by members of disfavored religions.

    And it relies on using the broad mass of the citizenry to snoop on their neighbors, creating a surveillance state par excellence.

    It *must not stand*.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  106. So many concerns for how they fight an unjust law that expands government power. No concerns about the unjust law itself. This really makes your claims about the vaccine mandate being “fascism” seem insincere.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/10/2021 @ 6:48 pm

    So you have nothing except for once again concern trolling.

    Thanks.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  107. Aphrael,

    you only care because you believe the right to murder the unborn is paramount. You don’t give a fig about anyone’s 2nd amendment or other rights.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  108. As I stated previously, the left has been doing this suit by proxy for years to shut down businesses with “environmental claims” and other bogus suits while being given the full support of the leftist government.

    About time they realized they aren’t the only one with the ability to do so.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  109. Jim Miller (edcec1) — 9/10/2021 @ 6:40 pm

    He cited the irony that no one is waging mass protests over other common vaccinations.

    “Nobody is taking to the streets and saying the government is trying to shove tetanus vaccines down our throats,” Brewer told Healthline.

    It’s not really ironic. Try this, go to google and type in “tetanus vaccine”. When I did it I didn’t get a single hit on mandates but I did get a lot of links about whether a booster was really needed. Turns out it’s “recommended for all adults at least every 10 years”.

    No one is going around saying the government is trying to shove tetanus vaccines down our throats because they aren’t going around trying to shove them down our throats. It’s amazing how you don’t really have to force people to do something when you don’t make it a political issue.

    It is also amazing how comparing the tetanus vaccine to the covid vaccine is the sort of “reasoning” that undermines credibility.

    frosty (f27e97)

  110. Wikipedia has a useful entry on the most commonly used political insult:

    Fascist has been used as a pejorative epithet against a wide range of individuals, political movements, governments, public, and private institutions since the emergence of fascism in Europe in the 1920s. Political commentators on both the Left and the Right accused their opponents of being fascists, starting in the years before World War II. In 1928, the Communist International labeled their social democratic opponents as social fascists,[1] while the social democrats themselves as well as some parties on the political right accused the Communists of having become fascist under Joseph Stalin’s leadership.
    . . .
    In 1944, the acclaimed English writer, democratic socialist, and anti-fascist George Orwell wrote about the term’s overuse as an epithet, arguing: “It will be seen that, as used, the word ‘Fascism’ is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox-hunting, bull-fighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley’s broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else. …

    Dogs? That’s one I’ve missed — but I have seen and heard American equivalents to most of the others in Orwell’s list.

    (When I was a kid, “Commie” was a more common insult, but now that isn’t often applied even to those who call themselves “Communists”.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  111. So you have nothing except for once again concern trolling.

    Thanks.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/10/2021 @ 7:03 pm

    you misunderstood; I’m not concerns trolling. I’m calling you intellectually dishonest.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  112. I’m confident that the DOJ has cited all the law it needs to cite in its complaint. This is Merrick Garland’s DOJ. Not Alberto Gonzales’s.

    nk (1d9030)

  113. Aphrael,

    you only care because you believe the right to murder the unborn is paramount. You don’t give a fig about anyone’s 2nd amendment or other rights.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/10/2021 @ 7:06 pm

    I like the 2nd amendment and plan to go to the range with my kids this weekend. I value a number of my rights that members of one party or another dislike and I oppose another mechanism to take those rights away.

    As I stated previously, the left has been doing this suit by proxy for years to shut down businesses with “environmental claims” and other bogus suits while being given the full support of the leftist government.

    About time they realized they aren’t the only one with the ability to do so.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/10/2021 @ 7:08 pm

    Emphasis mine because it really shows how MAGA is just another big government party, just with different policy preferences.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  114. you misunderstood; I’m not concerns trolling. I’m calling you intellectually dishonest.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/10/2021 @ 7:11 pm

    You were being passive aggressive as usual and trying to deflect from Biden and the AG’s unconstitutional actions. You do that quite often when you know you cannot defend a position.

    Carry on.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  115. Emphasis mine because it really shows how MAGA is just another big government party, just with different policy preferences.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/10/2021 @ 7:16 pm

    Shocking that when one keeps getting beaten with a stick they eventually grab it and start swinging back.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  116. Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/10/2021 @ 7:11 pm

    you misunderstood; I’m not concerns trolling. I’m calling you intellectually dishonest.

    By my count, you used concern twice and only had one mildly worded sentence that might be an insult but really seems more concerned with insincerity.

    frosty (f27e97)

  117. Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/10/2021 @ 7:16 pm

    And Now for Something Completely Different

    plan to go to the range with my kids this weekend

    A couple of questions; A) how do you afford the ammo and B) where do you find it?

    I’m trying to decide if this is code for I’ve got more money than sense. Sort of like, “I spent the weekend out on the lake driving my huge boat around in circles”.

    frosty (f27e97)

  118. @118, I don’t think you understand what concern trolling means. You should google it. I really was pointing out that his argument is dishonest.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  119. @119, haven’t had any trouble finding it where I live. Prices are annoyingly high.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  120. I used to think that Greg Abbott was a stand-up guy but he’s just spinning his wheels on this abortion law and he’s going to fall flat on his face. It doesn’t matter what side of the abortion question you’re on, it’s not law, it’s lawlessness in its face, and it’s not going to end well for either Texas or Pro-Life.

    nk (1d9030)

  121. @106 if they can regulate step bolts, they can make you inject stuff

    did MTG write this?

    JF (e1156d)

  122. Shocking that when one keeps getting beaten with a stick they eventually grab it and start swinging back.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 9/10/2021 @ 7:18 pm

    I get it. It’s why I called you a big government conservative. You don’t want smaller government. You want to use it for different things. Do you honestly not see that you’re endorsing my description of your position.

    Here, I’ll replace stick with big government for you.

    Shocking that when one keeps getting beaten with a big government they eventually grab it and start using it for different things

    Do you see it now?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  123. He didn’t do that. He has no direct power over the USPS. Or he could have fired the Republican Postmaster General.

    He hasn’t any power over FedEx, either, but he’s forcing FedEx to force their employees to get vaccinated. The USPS is at least equally situated with FedEx. It is not more independent than a private business. If OSHA can write rules for FedEx, it can write them for the USPS (or the Los Angeles Library system).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  124. Not a lot of confidence in your own campaign if you claim there’s voter fraud even before the election results.

    It’s a third-world election system now, with a dominant party running everything. I expect the recall to fail 53-47, which is pretty much what happens when the incumbent wins a close race in Africa.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  125. You shouldn’t be compelled to vaccinate your child, but neither should the rest of us be compelled to pretend like you did.

    Yet this is somehow anti-freedom. We should be forced to pretend that vaccinations don’t matter so that the willful idiots have the fre3edom to pretend that their magic talisman is just as good.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  126. I can understand Pakistan’s position

    So can I … the Pakistanis don’t want to offend their internal Taliban, who pretty much run everything already, and they want the Afghan collaborators hunted down and killed.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  127. BTW, who else is looking forward to the havoc the vaccine mandates, government and private, will play with affirmative action and disparate impact discrimination?

    I’m looking forward to unions attacking Biden for being anti-worker.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  128. Do you see it now?

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/10/2021 @ 7:48 pm

    You keep trying to change the topic and refuse to respond to Biden and the AG’s unconstitutional actions. Why is that? Why are you trying to make me the topic?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  129. US Citizens and Permanent Residents trapped in Afghanistan

    #POW-MIA-LBBC

    (Left Behind By Cowards)

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  130. [Reposted from wrong thread.]

    Milley killed an innocent man and seven children.

    Print story here.

    Video here.

    And are you at all surprised?

    nk (1d9030)

  131. aphrael,

    Regardless of one’s position on abortion, the Texas law foments chaos, and will be applied to other topics. See California and guns.

    Further, the claim that “it’s private action, not the government” was the underpinning to lynching and Jim Crow.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  132. And are you at all surprised?

    Biden ordered “DO SOMETHING!!!11!”

    This was something.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  133. Bootlinker:

    “Opinion: The hyperbolic GOP reaction to Biden’s vaccine mandate shows why it’s necessary”

    And this is why I won’t shed a single tear for the “death of expertise”, whether simply figurative or very, very literal.

    Broiologist (056111)

  134. What Biden should have done: Ordered all US government employees to get vaccinated.

    What he did: Ordered most, but not all US government employees to get vaccinated, plus most of everyone else.

    What will happen after the lawsuits: Everyone else will have to get vaccinated, but government workers won’t have to.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  135. Mr Miller wrote:

    Dana – To avoid the problems your young friend ran into, at least a few people are getting secret vaccinations.

    Given that someone’s health care records and vaccine status ought to be no one’s business except his own, that would seem perfectly normal to me.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (3ee66d)

  136. With apologies to Billy Joel…

    “Angry Joe Man”

    There’s a place in the world for this angry Joe man
    With his working class lies and his radical plans
    He refuses to bend he refuses to crawl
    When he trips on the stairs and can’t break his fall
    And he’s proud of his scars and the battles he’s lost
    As he struggles and bleeds on his Catholic cross
    And likes to be known as the angry Joe man

    Give a moment or two to this angry Joe man
    With his foot in his mouth and his list in his hand
    He’s been whispering wrong; he’s been misunderstood
    And excused as you know when his staff makes it good
    And he hides in his bunker with a lock on the door
    Sticking phrases in speeches he stole from before
    And he likes to be known as the angry Joe man

    I believed I’d passed the age of consciousness and righteous rage
    But find it unbelievable every night
    That colleagues had once believed this swampster, he just could not be
    As bad, or worse than capitalist Donald T;
    And life went on no matter who was left or right

    And there’s always a place for this angry Joe man
    With his fist up his ass and his head in the sand
    And he’s never been able to learn from mistakes
    So he can’t understand all hearts that he breaks
    And his blarney is sure but his malarkey’s the tell
    And he’s mean and he’s cruel and he’s Beauing as hell
    And he’ll go to the grave as an angry Joe man

    Yes there’s always a place for this angry Joe man
    With his working class lies and his no withdrawal plans
    He refuses to bend; he left Kabul to fail
    Stayed safely at home as the Taliban prevail
    And he’s proud of his son and the laptops he’s lost
    And he struggles and bleeds on his Catholic cross
    And he likes to be known as the angry Joe man

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  137. #132

    I wish I was.

    This is what happens when you outsource target acquisition coordination to some 21 year old DNC donor at Google Earth

    steveg (2c7127)

  138. nk at 106: an opinion piece by the odious Max Boot isn’t likely to persuade anyone here. He has been wrong on just about everything.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (3ee66d)

  139. Who wants to bet the fundamentalist Taliban are personal anti vaxxers, but pro vax for their slaves.
    Joe should have told them withdrawal was off until they all got verified vaccinations and stopped endangering the rest of the planet

    steveg (2c7127)

  140. @122. I used to think that Greg Abbott was a stand-up guy but he’s just spinning his wheels on this abortion law and he’s going to fall flat on his face…

    Abbott has been in a wheelchair since he was 26 when a freak accident paralyzed him from the waist down.

    ‘Course he’s never had brain surgery but does speak in complete sentences.

    “Stay classy, San Diego” – Ron Burgundy [Will Farrell] ‘Anchorman: The Legend of Ron Burgundy’ 2004

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  141. “Milley killed an innocent man and seven children.”

    And if they were Americans uninjected with whatever flavor-of-the-month your corporate sponsors are paying you to push these days, you’d have undoubtedly found a legal justification for it. Why are you distracting from Biden’s failures today with Biden’s failures yesterday? Just declare the Oval Office vacant and support Donald J. Trump’s glorious return.

    Broiologist (9b934c)

  142. #106

    If OSHA can regulate down to the step bolt level, then they can figure out how many workers there are out there who are unvaxxed but have recovered immunity. Then they can take a year or two, write a bunch of reports, fine some people for unrelated process crimes discovered during the inquiry, give the money from said fines to Democrat operatives in the unions, put out a press release, get back to business as usual. Oh wait. That is business as usual.
    Look for Biden to find a way to sweeten OSHA pensions and COVID hazard bonuses to incentivize our safety from the scourge of recovered immune vaccine deniers

    steveg (2c7127)

  143. He hasn’t any power over FedEx, either, but he’s forcing FedEx to force their employees to get vaccinated.

    I presume FedEx is a federal contractor, so his Executive Order would apply to them.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  144. This is what happens when you outsource target acquisition coordination to some 21 year old DNC donor at Google Earth

    Or a Marine Corps Reservist doing a seven-month deployment in Intelligence to pay off his college ROTC obligation and to build up a resume for when he runs for State Treasurer in Ohio?

    BTW, are Marine Corps Reserve “Marines”?

    nk (1d9030)

  145. Worst. American. President. Ever.

    …and Jimma smiled.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  146. Enjoy a nice vacation getaway in Linthicum without blowing your budget. Linthicum, known as Linthicum Heights in the past.

    hotel accomodation (2a8360)

  147. I presume FedEx is a federal contractor, so his Executive Order would apply to them.

    OK, Juul. You are missing the point rather intentionally.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  148. BTW, are Marine Corps Reserve “Marines”?

    Once a Marine, always a Marine.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  149. You hear anything about the American Kennel Club renaming Afghan Hounds “Freedom Hounds”, mg?

    nk (1d9030)

  150. In Chicago, a Democrat-led city that has been plagued with violence, more children have been shot than have died of COVID-19 in the United States in 2021.

    https://thepostmillennial.com/more-children-shot-in-chicago-than-died-of-covid19-us-this-year-report

    Obudman (6fea74)

  151. All I’ve heard about our dogs is, your guy thats worse than Trump, left them at the airport for the tally band to eat.

    mg (8cbc69)

  152. I’ve been waiting for several months for the voters of worse than Trump to praise the below ground level boob.

    mg (8cbc69)

  153. Deep-dish insanity, Obudman.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  154. That’s terrible, mg! Especially when we had already cooked seven children for them with a Hellfire missile, ready to eat.

    nk (1d9030)

  155. Shot does not equal died, Obudman. But that still does not minimize the plague of gun violence brought to our city by illegal guns obtained in states with lax gun control laws. We need a uniform national law which allows us to criminally prosecute gun and ammunition dealers and manufacturers, no matter where they are located, whose products are used illegally in Chicago or any other place.

    What? I’m not the one who linked that anti-gun clickbait tripe.

    nk (1d9030)

  156. @156 MG why would we praise Biden? He’s doing a lousy job. We’re not cultists, when faced with 2 bad choices we picked the least bad. It’s like the people who picked Trump because Hillary is horrid and then criticized him when he deserved it.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  157. Some Vaccines Last a Lifetime. Here’s Why Covid-19 Shots Don’t.
    ……….
    “A really good vaccine makes it so someone does not get infected even if they are exposed to the virus,” said Rustom Antia, a biology professor at Emory University who studies immune responses. “But not all vaccines are ideal.”

    The three tiers of defense, he said, include full protection against infection and transmission; protection against serious illness and transmission; or protection against serious illness only.

    The effectiveness depends on the magnitude of the immune response a vaccine induces, how fast the resulting antibodies decay, whether the virus or bacteria tend to mutate, and the location of the infection.
    ……….
    Basically, it’s levels of antibodies or neutralizing antibodies per milliliter of blood,” said Mark Slifka, a professor at Oregon Health & Science University.

    (T-cells also contribute to protection, but antibodies are easier to measure.)
    ………
    ……… [T]he magnitudes of response to the vaccines combined with the antibodies’ rates of decay produce durable immune responses: Measles antibodies decay slowly. Tetanus antibodies decay more quickly, but the vaccine causes the body to produce far more than it needs, offsetting the decline.
    ………
    Historically, the most effective vaccines have used replicating viruses, which essentially elicit lifelong immunity.

    Measles and chickenpox vaccines use replicating viruses.

    Non-replicating vaccines and protein-based vaccines (such as the one for tetanus) don’t last as long, but their effectiveness can be enhanced with the addition of an adjuvant—a substance that enhances the magnitude of the response.
    ……….
    The Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccines use non-replicating adenovirus and don’t contain an adjuvant. The Pfizer and Moderna messenger RNA Covid-19 vaccines, which work differently, don’t contain any virus at all.
    ……….
    Measles, mumps, rubella and chickenpox hardly mutate at all, but at least eight variants of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, have been found, according to the British Medical Journal.
    ……….
    ………. [S]ome hope has revolved around the possibility of defeating Covid-19 by achieving herd immunity, but, according to Dr. Antia, the way coronaviruses infect the body makes that challenging.

    “Vaccines are very unlikely to lead to long-lasting herd immunity for many respiratory infections,” Dr. Antia said. “The herd immunity only lasts for a modest period of time. It depends on how fast the virus changes. It depends on how fast the immunity wanes.”

    Part of the problem is that coronaviruses replicate in both the upper and lower respiratory tracts.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  158. Just as many forget to put /sarc at the end of a post. Obud should use (pardon the source), which I forgot to do on a recent NPR link.

    urbanleftbehind (ce2fc6)

  159. @161 interesting

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  160. Well, actually, urbanleftbehind, he did get me to wondering how many children across the country get sick from undercooked roadkill compared to how many get sick from Covid.

    nk (1d9030)

  161. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/10/2021 @ 8:07 pm

    Regardless of one’s position on abortion, the Texas law foments chaos

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/10/2021 @ 6:48 pm

    So many concerns for how they fight an unjust law that expands government power. No concerns about the unjust law itself. This really makes your claims about the vaccine mandate being “fascism” seem insincere.

    You both have issues with the TX law on process grounds correct? Do you have the same issues with the DOJ method of fighting it? If there is a process problem with the DOJ are you willing to give that a pass?

    frosty (f27e97)

  162. Is Elder torching the recall?
    ………
    Elder last week set off a firestorm by uttering out loud the sentiment that every major GOP recall candidate had studiously avoided. Speaking of Sen. Dianne Feinstein on fellow conservative Mark Levin’s radio show, Elder claimed that “nobody’s seen [her] in weeks,” and suggested the 88-year-old senator is in “even worse mental condition than Joe Biden.”
    ……….
    Elder’s comments immediately became a fundraising focal point for Democrats — and prompted some on social media to suggest Elder had just sunk the recall movement. But Elder was right on this point: few statements can fire up the party’s base like the threat of Republicans flipping the U.S. Senate — and Newsom immediately jumped on it.

    Elder has continued to hand his incumbent opponent plenty of material. Take the case of Texas’ restrictive new abortion legislation: When anti-abortion activist Lila Rose tweeted that Elder promised a litany of actions to put the brakes on legal abortion in California, Elder, pressed by the Sac Bee’s Lara Korte this weekend, failed to refute that tweet and then had his security team block Korte from further follow-ups.

    The stumbles have led recall campaign leader Orrin Heatlie, the former Yolo County sheriff’s sergeant, to tell POLITICO this week that Elder’s entry has been “counterproductive” to the grassroots recall movement. “I rejected his candidacy from the get-go, because he’s so far outspoken on the extreme,’’ he said.

    Randy Economy, one of the recall’s original spokespeople, said that Elder’s penchant for attention-getting quips may work on radio, but clearly doesn’t translate in a gubernatorial campaign. “He’s running for governor. He’s not a provocateur anymore,” Economy told POLITICO. “He needs to focus on the fact that if he’s elected, he’s going to be the chief executive officer of a trillion-dollar economy, and I don’t think he gets that. He’s very politically naive.’’
    ………..
    Given the structure of the recall process, which has Elder running against 45 other candidates, he needs to solidify his base to win a plurality of votes. But his outspokenness just gives Newsom more targets to use against the yes/no recall question. His position on COVID-19 mandates, for example, play directly to those who initiated the recall, but it is the polar opposite of what California voters view as the most important issue facing the state.

    Elder has suggested that he will run (if the recall loses) in the 2022 gubernatorial campaign. The recall campaign can be viewed as a trial run for that election. He would easily be the front runner for the Republican primary.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  163. Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/11/2021 @ 5:39 am

    Yes. I’ve made this point about the virus changing and the immunity weakening at least twice with Jim Miller. This is currently considered pure anti-vax propaganda and will be until the narrative changes. The next step after that will be “we’ll always be at war with East Asia covid”.

    I’m wondering why OSHA can’t regulate the general physical health of employees. Do you have any idea how unsafe obesity is? It’s directly related to heart disease in the US and that is the number one cause of death. COVID is only at #3. It’s also linked to cancer which is #2 and is a covid comorbidity.

    frosty (f27e97)

  164. The Otter Gotta Go!

    Baby steps in Cali…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  165. “Don’t underestimate Joe’s ability to f**k things up.”

    —- Barack 0bama (a man known for his own f**k ups)

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  166. frosty (f27e97) — 9/11/2021 @ 5:46 am

    You have a keen eye, frosty.

    felipe (484255)

  167. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/11/2021 @ 6:21 am

    Yes, he’s an authority on the subject, Colonel.

    felipe (484255)

  168. You both have issues with the TX law on process grounds correct? Do you have the same issues with the DOJ method of fighting it? If there is a process problem with the DOJ are you willing to give that a pass?

    frosty (f27e97) — 9/11/2021 @ 5:46 am

    I haven’t had time to understand what the DOJ is doing specifically. But my object to the Texas bill is that they’ve found a loophole to ban something people have a right to do. If that loophole is found to be technically within process I still have a philosophical objection to that action. We have individual rights for a reason. Lots of speech is broadly unpopular for example and I think people still have a right to make it. Replacing abortion with hate speech in this framework could be in process but would still be wrong.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  169. This is currently considered pure anti-vax propaganda

    Don’t care if it is or not. But I don’t think your understanding of what is/is not anti-vax propaganda is very accurate.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  170. A Saturday shuffle… good way to start teh day… https://youtu.be/YuRV2EwScoo

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  171. Italics, mine.

    Don’t care if it is or not. But I don’t think your understanding of what is/is not anti-vax propaganda is very accurate.
    Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/11/2021 @ 6:29 am

    Time, I have noticed a repeated use of this formula in your comments. It would be helpful to also specify what the inaccuracy is, in your opinion. Doing so would render your comment persuadable to another reader, if not the recipient. Otherwise, I just feel left hanging.

    felipe (484255)

  172. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/11/2021 @ 6:42 am

    Good tune, Colonel. I’d not heard it before today, thanks! By the way, I listened to Israelites, that you linked earlier – it did perk me right up! Good memories.

    felipe (484255)

  173. 166, I don’t know how and when the recall’s results are edified…but if Gavin Newsom is retained, DiFi should resign the day after.

    And for 2 of the past 3 gubernatorial elections, the Rs have de jure or de facto nominated a ethnic in Hope’s of a 50+1 slice victory. Though I wish Mike Garcia gets a crack at it someday, it might be wise to go with the white guy next tome.

    urbanleftbehind (55eeef)

  174. Dana! Thank you all the weekend open threads that you post. I ‘m writing a letter to Santa Claus on your behalf, how does a “duplex, and checks,” sound as “stocking-stuffers” sound to you?

    felipe (484255)

  175. Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/11/2021 @ 6:26 am

    You’re silent on the DOJ case then? It’s ok if it works to overturn this unjust law? Better to not really understand what the DOJ is doing? No worries about being in favor of a thing and against the very same thing?

    I still have a philosophical objection to that action

    Can you elaborate? Is this an objection to loopholes or to restricting abortions? If your issue is legal loopholes I have to wonder if you’ve actually read Roe. It suffers from its own technical issues and general loopholery that you’re criticizing in the TX law. But people like the outcome so they’re willing to do exactly what you’re accusing people supporting the TX law of doing.

    frosty (f27e97)

  176. Time123,

    Here is the DOJ’s complaint against Texas. Alternate link here.

    There is no dearth of statute citation. There is no dearth of case citation. There is no process problem. The case is before a judge who will decide the sufficiency of the allegations and their merits according to law and not according to sh!tkicker fantasy.

    The trolls are just outright lying. I doubt that they have even seen the complaint, and are only parroting wingnut.net/radio/tv.

    It’s not a process problem if the DOJ is proceeding with established law, and not following the Rube Goldberg nonsense Texas thought up. We’re talking about the same assholes who sued the four swing states directly at the Supreme Court over their voting laws. And that’s what the trolls are whining about. That the DOJ did not wander into Texas’s locoweed maze. That’s their “process” problem.

    nk (1d9030)

  177. felipe (484255) — 9/11/2021 @ 7:08 am

    Good memories… but the memory I associate with this Manfred Mann Earth Band song is me walking through the burnt out remains of the billiard table manufacturer I worked for as the “service manager” when I was in college… trying to find whatever was salvageable… a tragedy for the owner… no insurance, as it would’ve been too expensive to get the rickety, wooden shop up to code.

    The shop was located next to an old two story house that was the HQ of Beer Drinkers of America – a college fraternity. The night of the fire, I had taken my future bride out for dinner to celebrate her 20th birthday. On our way home, as we approached the shop location, we could see emergency vehicle lights and flames from about a half mile away… I was thinking the beer drinkers had finally gone and done it… they’d burned down their party house.

    Boy, was I mistaken…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  178. Perhaps I have been reading “the week in pictures” for too long, but I feel that after linking Eartha Kitt “for the guys,” I should link Eartha Kitt “for the ladies,” in the interest of fairness. Let’s, some of us, just close our eyes, shall we?

    felipe (484255)

  179. Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/11/2021 @ 6:29 am

    At the risk of pointing out the obvious.

    Don’t care if it is or not.

    This statement contradicts itself. If you don’t care why say anything? Obviously that’s a rhetorical statement. Your comment says that you care and why. Things like you lecturing NJRob on self awareness is one of the many reasons I enjoy reading the comments.

    But I don’t think your understanding of what is/is not anti-vax propaganda is very accurate.

    Maybe. I’m wrong on many things often. However, I’ve said the same and been accused in threads here of being anti-vax. So, you’re argument may not be with me.

    frosty (f27e97)

  180. Rip Murdock (0aa613) — 9/11/2021 @ 5:58 am

    Elder lost the minute Trump opened his mouth about the recall.

    nk (1d9030)

  181. “Shot does not equal died”

    Maybe the worst comment of the weekend.

    Some of the shot children did indeed die, the others have survived to live in a community filled with despair, ignorance and no value on human life.

    So punish gun manufacturers because a culture taught that Black lives don’t matter unless a white person killed them insist on murdering each other wholesale.

    Btw more Black children have been killed by their mothers since Roe v Wade than 5,000 times the number of Blacks killed by the KKK since the Civil War.

    Obudman (6fea74)

  182. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/11/2021 @ 7:32 am

    Wow, thank for that, Colonel.

    felipe (484255)

  183. Obudman (6fea74) — 9/11/2021 @ 7:36 am

    I know. How horrific is it that the most likely place for a child to be murdered, is the womb?

    Rachel weeps, still.

    felipe (484255)

  184. Follow up to my comment 181.

    Texas versus Merrick Garland as filmed by Steven Spielberg.

    nk (1d9030)

  185. I am heading to my dealership to have my jalopy serviced. I know, I know, but I have a relationship with them – I give them much money, and they “unnaturally” prolong the life of my “Ethyl Belle.”

    felipe (484255)

  186. Obudman @ 186

    I definitely should have put sarcasm tags on that comment. Spanish style. At the beginning and at the end. Because

    So punish gun manufacturers because a culture taught that Black lives don’t matter unless a white person killed them insist on murdering each other wholesale.

    for a start, ending with complete disarmament of the people, was the purpose of that article. Not mine. I agree with your position. We don’t need gun control, we need gang control, but nobody even says “gang” anymore. It’s racist.

    nk (1d9030)

  187. Obudman wrote:

    Btw more Black children have been killed by their mothers since Roe v Wade than 5,000 times the number of Blacks killed by the KKK since the Civil War.

    Black women have abortions at five times the rate of white women; it’s a white supremacist’s dream!

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (3ee66d)

  188. Time for Army football! Channel 221 on DirecTV!

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (3ee66d)

  189. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/11/2021 @ 8:17 am

    Don’t worry. They’ve got a plan for that. They just need to run some opium and guns through a 3rd party for money for the hostages. Wait, I see the problem there. They don’t need a 3rd party this time.

    frosty (f27e97)

  190. It’s not a process problem if the DOJ is proceeding with established law, and not following the Rube Goldberg nonsense Texas thought up. We’re talking about the same assholes who sued the four swing states directly at the Supreme Court over their voting laws. And that’s what the trolls are whining about. That the DOJ did not wander into Texas’s locoweed maze. That’s their “process” problem.

    nk (1d9030) — 9/11/2021 @ 7:29 am

    You are engaging in falsehoods. There is no valid statute claim. Even the WSJ states our corrupt AG is abusing his position.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/merrick-garland-texas-two-step-department-of-justice-abortion-law-lawsuit-11631224546

    But you don’t care. You’ll just sit here and trash people instead of doing anything to unite them. Enjoy your support of soon to be Kamala Harris.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  191. “ I definitely should have put sarcasm tags”

    And I definitely should have remembered today was 9/11.

    Some of the ‘America deserved it’ comments I’ve seen in the last 24 hours are off the charts despicable.

    Obudman (6fea74)

  192. I can’t read the WSJ editorial board opinion you linked, NJRob. Paywall. But I did read the DOJ complaint and linked it at 181. And so will a judge. Who will decide if it states a cause of action. The way it should be done. Not the Texas brush-popper way designed to avoid judicial scrutiny.

    nk (1d9030)

  193. Another Afghanistan f-uck-up by Biden. It’s likely that the preemptive drone strike wasn’t “righteous” at all. More like wrongeous.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  194. Ilya Somin:

    The really problematic element of Biden’s plan is the requirement that all employers with 100 or more workers impose a requirement of vaccination or regular Covid testing on their entire workforce. This affects some 80 million workers (though a large percentage are likely vaccinated already), and the legal authority for it is dubious, at best.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  195. “Some of the ‘America deserved it’ comments I’ve seen in the last 24 hours are off the charts despicable.”

    If you go around looking to be outraged, you’ll probably succeed.

    Davethulhu (7c4d94)

  196. I can’t read the WSJ editorial board opinion you linked, NJRob.

    But I can. It in no way defends the TX law, it just says that the DoJ suit is premature as no one has yet asserted harm.

    The Justice Department sued in federal court Thursday to block the new Texas abortion law, and its main result will be to prove that both parties are willing to abuse the law to serve their political ends on this fraught issue. It’s another low moment for Attorney General Merrick Garland, as he seems dedicated again to satisfying the political demands of the White House….

    Sorry, the feds can’t sue to block a state law if there is no case or controversy. Justice has no standing to sue. The Justice lawsuit asserts a federal interest because the Texas statute “conflicts with federal law by purporting to prohibit federal agencies from carrying out their responsibilities under federal law related to abortion services.”

    But the federal government is not an abortion provider….

    I do think there is a course of federal action, but they claim that Garland didn’t take it. The problem with the TX law is not about abortion, or even rights. It’s about the mob-enforcement methodology, the pretense that the State (which runs the civil courts) is not involved, and the massively-tilted playing field it creates.

    A similar law targeting tobacco users would be just as wrong.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  197. By the way, I think that the reason the US Supreme Court did not immediately strike down the TX law is in part because several of the justices wish to use it as kindling. There is probably a really good 14th Amendment “privileges or immunities” case here, which would interest Thomas at least.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  198. Texas versus Merrick Garland as filmed by Steven Spielberg.

    And Merrick Garland is the one with the gun? I find the analogy troubling.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  199. “If you go around looking to be outraged, you’ll probably succeed.”

    … and you don’t even need to “go around” or “look”!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  200. Do you have the same issues with the DOJ method of fighting it?

    IANAL and don’t have the patience to parse the Garland complaint. My gut feeling, as I’ve expressed, is that making this an abortion case is the wrong tack. The TX mob-enforcement provision is far more dangerous than any attempt to control abortions.

    Ask yourself this: If the TX law set the ban after 26 weeks, instead of 6, with the same enforcement mechanisms, would it be a better law? I’d say not.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  201. More Jonah. Yes, Biden’s ill-thought out employer mandate was an attempt to change the subject from his ill-thought out cut-and-run from Afghanistan.

    But I think I’m right in no small part because the plan Biden put forward is clearly a disjointed mess. Just as a matter of logic, if the administration had always been planning to do this, they wouldn’t have insisted otherwise. And if they had always been planning to do this, they would have had a better plan–and a better argument.

    Instead, we got a bizarre word salad—all the more bizarre because it was written out beforehand. After—correctly!—pointing out that the vaccines do a good job protecting people from COVID and a fantastic job preventing hospitalization and death, Biden said, “The bottom line: We’re going to protect vaccinated workers from unvaccinated co-workers.”

    Huh?

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  202. … and you don’t even need to “go around” or “look”!

    ‘thulhu is correct that it’s easy to be outraged, but Haiku is correct that it’s a lot easier for those on the right top be outraged as the MSM’s nonsense is ubiquitous and the Right’s nonsense is not as easily available (especially since half of it (Trump) has been banned from Twitter).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  203. Paul, I saw that Somin article and agree. The regulation of federal employees…modifying the terms of employment…..provided it has exemptions for medical or religious reasons….even though it does not present an option for regular testing instead….seems legal. But jumping to a law covering companies with 100 employees or more is a big over reach. Congress can potentially do something like that using the Interstate Commerce Clause…..but not the President….even with his emergency powers. Even if one is arguing emergency, it’s sketchy to limit it to big companies….and it’s sketchy to say there is an emergency when the vaccine has been freely available for a while. There is no federal police power! Maybe like Trump trying to do an EO banning all Muslims, Biden is primarily playing to his base at this point…trying to recoup some mojo from Afghanistan….figuring too, like the eviction moratorium, that if this gets a couple more 100,000 vaccinated….mission accomplished. Still, it’s just bad governance…..but it’s where we are at in our politically toxic environment….

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  204. It’s like the people who picked Trump because Hillary is horrid and then criticized him when he deserved it.

    I’ve come to understand the Ukrainians who had to choose between Hitler and Stalin. Hopefully our choices never get that bad.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  205. 199 – because worse than trump voters.

    mg (8cbc69)

  206. @200

    And, as I’ve been saying for a few days, with no clear response. who does he exempt the USPS workers? Either they government employees, employees of a government contractor, or they are employees of a sizable private company.

    In any of those cases, they should be subject to this order. By exempting people who enter every workplace and neighborhood, he makes a mockery of his claim to emergency action.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  207. “ [What follows is a slightly edited transcript of what I saw and how I felt on the 11th of September, 2001 from Brooklyn Heights in New York City. On that day I was posting to a West Coast Computer Conferencing system known as The Well. As a result, even though I was writing from Brooklyn Heights directly across the river from the Towers, the time stamp reflects PST. Real time is +3 hours.]

    Tue 11 Sep 01 08:07

    Saw the first tower collapse from the Promenade across the river in Brooklyn. Fine white and pale yellow ash everywhere. Lower Manhattan covered in smoke with ash still drifting down.

    Military jets overhead every five minutes or so.

    Lower span of Brooklyn Bridge jammed with people walking out of the city, many covered with white ash. Ghosts. The Living Dead. BQE empty except for convoys of emergency vehicles.

    Sirens in all directions. Ferry ships emerging from the smoke heading to the Brooklyn shore riding low in the water fully loaded.

    This is monstrous.

    Deaths in the thousands in New York.

    My body is trembling with sorrow and rage. I saw the first tower fall. Everyone in it would have been killed. This, all this, must be stopped. Those who have done this must be wiped out to the last.

    War with whom?

    Any and all terrorist organizations, foreign or domestic, must now be brought to a swift and complete halt no matter where they are located.

    I watched this happen. The enormity of it cannot be communicated. Vile and bestial.

    We need to destroy any and all capacity of anyone living anywhere to do anything like this ever again. There were thousands in those buildings. Thousands.

    There is no justice swift enough or sure enough.

    All that we have must be brought forward and used without restraint. This is an act of war beyond Pearl Harbor.

    Military jets overhead again.

    More ash on the street. I am cooled down. Way down.

    This is pure evil…”

    https://americandigest.org/saw-notes-made-september-11-2001-brooklyn-heights/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  208. 199 – because worse than trump voters.

    Trump would have left quicker and more chaotically. His supporters would have been calling the folks he left behind “traitors” and saying they deserved it. Just because Biden is a f-up, does not mean that Trump was not also a f-up.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  209. Telling ag ashcroft not to fly commercial. Never forget bush knew.

    False and false. The 911 Report and other sources made clear that Bush didn’t have actionable intelligence, in part because of intelligence barrier between FBI and CIA.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  210. Trump would have left quicker and more chaotically. His supporters would have been calling the folks he left behind “traitors” and saying they deserved it. Just because Biden is a f-up, does not mean that Trump was not also a f-up.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/11/2021 @ 9:47 am

    Facts not in evidence and made up stuff for $100 Alex.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  211. “If you go around looking to be outraged, you’ll probably succeed”

    Haiku is right, you don’t have to look very far.

    The “Jan 6 was worse” morons are giving them a run for the money.

    Obudman (6fea74)

  212. BREAKING: Biden’s vaccine mandates for federal employees don’t apply to members of Congress or staff

    https://www.newsweek.com/members-congress-staff-exempt-biden-covid-vaccine-mandate-1627859

    Obudman (6fea74)

  213. Worldwide, in the last week, the number of COVID cases is down 10 percent, and the number of deaths down 9 percent.

    Denmark is celebrating victory over COVID — showing the rest of us what is possible.

    After nearly 550 days, the Scandinavian country has lifted the last of its domestic pandemic-era restrictions, declaring that the coronavirus is no longer a “critical threat to society.” Denmark appears to be the first European Union member to issue such a declaration, potentially providing a glimpse into the future of the bloc’s recovery — or serving as a cautionary tale of a nation that moved too quickly.

    Assuming of course that the virus does not join in the celebration.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  214. Given that someone’s health care records and vaccine status ought to be no one’s business except his own, that would seem perfectly normal to me.

    Health records, yes, vaccine status, no.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  215. “Haiku is right, you don’t have to look very far.”

    You don’t have to look far when you’re plugged into the right-wing outrage machine. You’re not seeing someone posting “America deserved it” or “1/6 was worse”, you’re seeing someone who went looking for that sentiment reposting it. Which was my point.

    Davethulhu (7c4d94)

  216. “Given that someone’s health care records and vaccine status ought to be no one’s business except his own, that would seem perfectly normal to me.”

    The authorities who locked up “Typhoid Mary” had a different view.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  217. The Otter Gotta Go!

    Trouble is, Radio Stymie, Gold Medaled Trannies and stale Reagan flotsam aren’t really viable alternatives.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  218. While we remember 9/11, we should also remember the 1993 attack:

    The 1993 World Trade Center bombing was a terrorist attack on the World Trade Center in New York City, carried out on February 26, 1993, when a truck bomb detonated below the North Tower of the complex. The 1,336 lb (606 kg) urea nitrate–hydrogen gas enhanced device[1] was intended to send the North Tower (Tower 1) crashing into the South Tower (Tower 2), bringing both towers down and killing tens of thousands of people. It failed to do so, but killed six people, including a pregnant woman,[2] and injured over one thousand.[3] About 50,000 people were evacuated from the buildings that day.[4][5]

    (I believe the terrorists hoped to kill as many as 250,000 people.)

    We had more than eight years to prepare for another attack — and failed to do so, mostly, I believe, because we could not grasp how much Islamic extremists hated us.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  219. Queen Elizabeth and Her Troops Pay Tribute to 9/11 by Playing ‘Star-Spangled Banner’ at Changing of the Guard

    Queen Elizabeth is paying tribute to the many people impacted by the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001.

    Her guards at Windsor Castle played “The Star-Spangled Banner” during the Changing of the Guard at Windsor Castle on Saturday at around 11 a.m. local time (6 a.m. ET) as America marked the 20th anniversary of 9/11.

    Classy.

    President Plagiarist said nothing. For obvious reasons.

    Classless.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  220. “Assuming of course that the virus does not join in the celebration.”

    Step 1 to keeping it out of the conversation is treating any public news about the virus like the media are treating the current anti-lockdown protests across Europe. China, for example, just injected everyone with saline and declared victory.

    Baguette Konig (bff29a)

  221. While we remember 9/11, we should also remember the 1993 attack

    No sh!t.

    Was a snowy day; that morning, was in the WTC, beneath it, doing some banking and a little shopping. Most people don’t realize the size and scope of the complex [television doesn’t do it justice] as there was a major transit hub for subway and PATH trains to Jersey City, Newark, Uptown and out to JFK, banks as well as a mall several stories deep. Finished my business and decided to catch an early train home; caught a PATH train to Hoboken and as passengers boarded the train, we saw and heard all these choppers and sirens around the towers across the river through the snow flurries. Got seated, and plugged in the ol’Walkman and learned of the news of the attack and explosion. My fellow passengers were all just gob-smacked– seems we’d lucked out and literally caught the last PATH train out from the WTC just minutes before the bomb blast by the station.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  222. Trump hints at 2024 White House run during NYPD precinct visit after skipping 9/11 memorial

    https://news.yahoo.com/trump-hints-2024-white-house-174322331.html

    Asses kicked; names mentioned.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  223. Regarding the 1993 WTC bombing, it’s a simple fact that Bill Clinton had eight years to deal with al Qaeda after this major attack. Bush had eight months.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  224. “The Democratic Party in the Trump years became the new home of the Bush-Cheney revolution, with War on Terror architects like Bill Kristol and David Frum crossing over and pols like Adam Schiff capable of out-monstering anyone on civil liberties issues.”

    — – Matt Taibbi

    https://t.co/tRpvXEzcgN

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  225. Bush had eight months.

    Worse: Dubya had a PDB in his goddamned lap titled: Bin Laden Determined To Strike in U.S.– the title of the President’s Daily Brief prepared by the Central Intelligence Agency. It was and given to the cowpie on Monday, August 6, 2001. The brief warned, 36 days before the September 11 attacks, of terrorism threats from Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda, including “patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for a hijacking” of U.S. aircraft.

    Bush fvcked up. In fact, this whole hell is all on the oily Bush family going back to Pappy and his neocon nation-buildingCheney-Rummy-Wolfowitz- twits failing to pull out U.S. troops from Saudi soil post Gulf War antics.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  226. And, as I’ve been saying for a few days, with no clear response. who does he exempt the USPS workers? Either they government employees, employees of a government contractor, or they are employees of a sizable private company.
    ……..

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/11/2021 @ 9:44 am

    See here for the answer. They are exempt from the executive order as the USPS is an independent agency of the federal government but would be covered by the OSHA order.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  227. Every now and then I think back on how weird this was:

    Two of my classmates/basketball teammates… one was the late Brad Burlingame, whose brother Chip was at the helm of the flight taken into the Pentagon. The other is a fellow who learned plastics manufacturing and built a lucrative career on it
    … he’s been retired off and on since around 1996, only working as a consultant when he chooses to. He’d gone back to Boston (from SoCal) on 9/9 for a 9/10 job interview and he’d been scheduled to return to SoCal on AA Flight 11 on 9/11.

    However, the interview had gone well, so he’d received a call later that Monday evening asking that he stay one more day and swing by to take care of formalities. So he rescheduled his return for 9/12.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  228. George W. Bush uses his 9/11 anniversary speech in Shanksville to condemn ‘violent extremists abroad and violent extremists at home’ and says they are ‘children of the same foul spirit’

    this being bush, he doesn’t identify the extremists by name

    he may as well be referring to soccer hooligans

    victims’ families had to sit there and listen to this crap

    JF (e1156d)

  229. Bush fvcked up.

    Yes, and so did his predecessor because al Qaeda pulled multiple terrorist attacks under Clinton’s watch. Bush didn’t do enough and neither did Clinton, but Bush had eight months and Clinton had nearly two terms in office.
    Regarding the PDF, perhaps they didn’t act swiftly enough after receiving it but, at the same time, they didn’t have actionable intelligence to know the who (except for Moussaoui), when, where and how.
    It is interesting, that Trump and his unswerving loyalists are so eager to denigrate past Republican presidents, thereby putting The Former Guy in a more favorable light.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  230. @234. My boss had a cousin who was aboard one of the flights out of Boston coming back home to LA that slammed into the towers.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  231. @236. No.

    This hell is all on the Bush, his oily clan and his cabal of new-world-order-neocons. T’was on his watch– with the smoking gun being the damn PDB in his hands.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  232. George W. Bush uses his 9/11 anniversary speech in Shanksville to condemn ‘violent extremists abroad and violent extremists at home’ and says they are ‘children of the same foul spirit’

    The stink of cowpie is all over that piece of crap. He should make like Biden and just STFU.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  233. Trump hints at 2024 White House run during NYPD precinct visit after skipping 9/11 memorial

    He’s made every previous 9/11 about his orange self, why should this one be different?

    nk (1d9030)

  234. Mr. DeMonia won’t be counted as a Covid death, but he’s dead because of Covid. More specifically, because too many un-vaxxed Covid patients have filled ICUs, thus preventing him from treatment for a “cardiac episode”. There are almost 2,700 and 1,600 Coviders in AL and MS hospitals, slightly below and notably the January 2021 peak, respectively.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  235. mg: “because worse than trump voters.”

    I hope this means mg will advocate for and support someone better than Trump on the GOP side come 2024. I mean, he wouldn’t drive the bus into the ditch yet again and then spastically complain that the bus only crashed because of the people he and Trump willingly chose to left behind, would he?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  236. @240. Because it was better– and quite the contrast to shufflin’ Squinty McStumblebum’s bemasked, body language arms-crossed impatience at the NYC memorial. Wearing a mask and he’s vaccinated.

    He’s an idiot.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  237. This hell is all on the Bush, his oily clan and his cabal of new-world-order-neocons.

    That’s as reasonable as your continuous spouting of Biden’s plagiarism and ignoring Trump’s tens of thousands of lies in office.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  238. BTW, both MS and AL are only 40% fully vaccinated.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  239. People always say thank God it was Bush and not Gore in there, but it is also possible Lieberman might have drawn failed assasination attempts by small-time jihadis in their 1st 8 months with the result being eyes and ears opened…

    urbanleftbehind (55eeef)

  240. Good…now do it (is it too late for this election on Nov. 2?):

    https://news.yahoo.com/trump-prospect-nyc-mayoral-bid-184700886.html

    urbanleftbehind (55eeef)

  241. Mr M wrote:

    Trump would have left quicker and more chaotically. His supporters would have been calling the folks he left behind “traitors” and saying they deserved it. Just because Biden is a f-up, does not mean that Trump was not also a f-up.

    Or President Trump’s withdrawal, while quicker — he planned to be out by May Day — would have been better organized and more soundly conducted. Lacking a window into the alternate quantum universe in which President Trump was re-elected, we can’t actually know, and you are projecting your dislike of him on to an unknowable future.

    One thing does seem certain: there wasn’t much downside room for Mr Biden’s fiasco that anyone else could have occupied. Almost anything different would have had to be less bad.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (3ee66d)

  242. America has developed a bad habit– modern media driven BTW– and particularly since the yellow ribbon days of the Iran hostage crisis– of celebrating ‘failures,’ ‘debacles’ and ‘disasters’ as some worthwhile and glorious ‘anniversaries’— such being yet another symptom of a declining empire in search of honors and glories past. The British began to do this as well in their twilight times.

    For example, those of us alive in December, 1961 – 20 years after Pearl Harbor- were not subjected to a relentless media bombardment about the sneak attack for days on end. Granted, the media landscape was less prolific- but the saturation and intensity was certainly not comparable. In fact, the Pearl Harbor Memorial itself wasn’t even completed and dedicated until 1962- 21 years after the attack- [my late grandfather travelled to Hawaii to visit it that year] and it took many years to even generate interest and $ to construct it.

    There’s clearly been a shift in the national mindset. Look up news events for December 7, 1961, and you’ll learn the ‘big news’ was the announcement by NASA of the second phase of American manned spaceflight program, Project Gemini- a two-man version of the one-man Mercury capsule. The focus then was on the future, not the past. These days, celebrating failure and magnifying agony, frame by frame, has become the national pastime and fodder for cable programming ever hungry for product to air and to cash in w/commercial packages to sell around it.

    “Hello, I’m Ted Koppel and this… is Nightline.” – ABC TV, 1979

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  243. 242- Voting for worse than Trump is hip, far out and outa sight, I’m voting worse than Trump, just like you, brother.
    Worse than Trump/ 2024

    mg (8cbc69)

  244. The worse than Trump cult has expanded to all the bawlers who voted for some other hack.

    mg (8cbc69)

  245. And fraud- chi says he knows zero about anti-bodies. Trump should have canned this baby-ruth in a pool.

    mg (8cbc69)

  246. Filepe @176, thank you for the comment. It’s good feedback and I’ll try to rewrite my comment to address it.

    Frosty, I don’t think my comment can fairly or accurately be described as “anti-vax”. If someone wants to misrepresent it that way it doesn’t bother me and I’m not going to get worked up about a bad faith or silly characterization.

    You’ve repeatedly worried (asserted?) that factually accurate statements have been called “anti-vax”. Accurate statements can occur inside an anti-vax argument. That doesn’t make the statement itself anti-vax any more then a 9/11 truther getting the year of the attack correct makes that fact part of the truther conspiracy theory. You’ve done his often enough that I don’t think your characterization of what is/is not being described as anti-vax is very reliable. I suspect you’re either way off on what people are asserting or you’re intentionally misrepresenting the anti-anti-vax argument as a rhetorical tool.

    I don’t think a conversation about this will go anywhere so I didn’t spell it out.

    Time123 (224669)

  247. Now it makes sense, the extra animus by Trump worshippers today toward GW Bush.

    As a nation, our adjustments have been profound. Many Americans struggled to understand why an enemy would hate us with such zeal. The security measures incorporated into our lives are both sources of comfort and reminders of our vulnerability. And we have seen growing evidence that the dangers to our country can come not only across borders, but from violence that gathers within. There is little cultural overlap between violent extremists abroad and violent extremists at home. But in their disdain for pluralism, in their disregard for human life, in their determination to defile national symbols, they are children of the same foul spirit. And it is our continuing duty to confront them.
    […]
    In the weeks and months following the 9/11 attacks, I was proud to lead an amazing, resilient, united people. When it comes to the unity of America, those days seem distant from our own. A malign force seems at work in our common life that turns every disagreement into an argument, and every argument into a clash of cultures. So much of our politics has become a naked appeal to anger, fear, and resentment. That leaves us worried about our nation and our future together.
    I come without explanations or solutions. I can only tell you what I have seen.

    On America’s day of trial and grief, I saw millions of people instinctively grab for a neighbor’s hand and rally to the cause of one another. That is the America I know.

    Of course, this doesn’t excuse his colossal blunder to invade Iraq.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  248. @244. =yawn= act versus action.

    You’re not going to get much mileage defending Dubya’s clan, their oily past w/mideast oil connections, the wars, the lives lost and billions blown there against the bombastic Trump who opposed mideast meddling. He has nothing to do w/this.

    Big difference between PT Barnum- who banished the neocons and who’d expect his show folks to perform or be fired- and The Bush family Vulcans: the foreign policy advisory team led by Condoleezza Rice w/ Richard Armitage, Robert Blackwill, Stephen Hadley, Richard Perle, Dov S. Zakheim, Robert Zoellick and Paul Wolfowitz, and Wolfowitz protégé, Scooter Libby. Other figures including Dick Cheney, George P. Shultz and Colin Powell were also closely associated with the group.

    ‘During the 2000 campaign, Dubya sought to deflect questions about his own lack of foreign policy experience by pointing to this group of experienced advisers. After the election, all the members of the team received key positions within the new Bush administration.’ -sourrce, wikicowpie.texas.dump

    New World Order Neocons all. The real evildoers.

    Besides, Bush had the smoking gun literally in his hands: Bin Laden Determined To Strike in U.S.– the title of the President’s Daily Brief prepared by the Central Intelligence Agency. He had it in his paws 36 days before the September 11 attacks. Face it; he dropped the ball and got thousands of Americans killed, billions in property lost and ignited the 20 year war in Afghanistan.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  249. One amusing irony of the hysterical overreaction of the Branch Covidians, particularly on the Democratic side, is that it might actually motivate my Blue Dog Democrat wife and sister in law to vote Republican for the first time in their lives.

    Factory Working Orphan (0a2bc3)

  250. You’re silent on the DOJ case then? It’s ok if it works to overturn this unjust law?

    I’m silent on it because I haven’t read, don’t understand the arguments, and having nothing intelligent to say. But if it is flawed and an abuse of power in its own right I wouldn’t support it. I don’t want to fix one flawed law with another flawed law.

    Time123 (224669)

  251. One thing does seem certain …:

    One thing that is certain is that when Trump said on April 18 that the withdrawal should be completed by May 1, he added no qualifiers about getting U.S. citizens out first within that limited span of time. He wouldn’t have bothered to get translators and other Afghan allies out: his administration gutted the visa program for doing so, and his subsequent pronouncements have shown indifference to the fate of Afghans who helped us. He certainly didn’t care what happened to our Kurdish allies when he abruptly pulled troops out of Syria.

    We also know that on June 26 Trump claimed full responsibility for the withdrawal and said that the current administration simply “couldn’t stop the process” that he started. At the same time, he said the Afghan government would fall as soon as we left — i.e. it was part of the plan.

    It’s possible to recognize that Biden botched things badly, even disgracefully, without inventing a happier scenario under Trump that’s contrary to what he has actually said and done, starting with his ill-considered decision to cut a deal that empowered the Taliban (painting them as our new allies in fighting terrorists) and weakened the Afghan government. The only rational basis for imagining a better outcome under Trump is that other people in the administration had so little respect for him that they would have circumvented his instructions.

    But they still wouldn’t have been likely to care much about our Afghan allies.

    Radegunda (00821b)

  252. @254 whether bush is referring to antifa, or 1/6, or blm, or proud boys or all of the above — who knows, he’s too much of a weasel to clarify — the comparison to 9/11 with victims’ families as a captive audience is grotesque

    but you think it’s awesome, paul

    of course you do

    JF (e1156d)

  253. laura bush has killed more people than the 1/6 rioters

    JF (e1156d)

  254. As a nation, our adjustments have been profound. Many Americans struggled to understand why an enemy would hate us with such zeal.

    Many Americans struggle to understand why you, Dubya, failed to follow up on the PDB in your hands 36 days before September 11, 2001, w/a CIA warning of a possible attack.

    ‘Course an oily-driven family run by New World Order Neocons couldn’t possibly grasp why another culture would ‘hate us with such zeal’ for trying to impose western capitalistic lifestyles, norms –and McDonald’s– into a nation building exercise to reshape their society costing thousand of lives and billions of dollars. Golly…the Confederacy went to war over something akin to that, too.

    Idiots all.

    ” My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators.” – Daddy Darth 3/16/03

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  255. DCSCA at 249 —

    When you are right…well it’s worth noting. As for myself, I’m watching football.

    Appalled (0f1c89)

  256. 258 – you voted worse than Trump. You own this. Quit attempting to justify your pathetic vote.

    mg (8cbc69)

  257. Dcsca, elaborate on the specific fail events the Brits celebrate or memorialize. I can only think of Dunkirk, but nothing equivalent to France commemorating Dien Bien Phu or loss of Haiti or Algeria.

    urbanleftbehind (55eeef)

  258. 254… GWB should’ve been more specific with his charges… who are these “domestic terrorists”?

    I can’t recall where I read it, but some contend that circa ‘05 or ‘06 is when this nation building/let democracy bloom where it never has bullsh*t began and when we lost sight of the objective. I confess that I consider my support for this a grave mistake on my part.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  259. BTW, if you want to see the original 9/11 coverage, here’s a fairly good unedited recording of NBC’s coverage from first reports on the Today show to the collapse of the second tower. I think they cut a commercial from the first minute of the Today show coverage.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtZKEjr-Sfg

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  260. Telling ag ashcroft not to fly commercial. Never forget bush knew.

    Pretty sure the Solicitor General would have made a stink about that, considering his wife was on the Pentagon plane.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  261. but you think it’s awesome, paul

    I do, JF. It’s not hard to identify the “children of the same foul spirit”. The intolerance and illiberalism is there for anyone to see.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  262. Facts not in evidence and made up stuff for $100 Alex.

    So, you rely on past behavior (both of Trump and his supporters) being inadmissible?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  263. The booosh family is a disgrace.
    20 years and 1 week since we partied Ace. Your family is doing as well as can be expected.
    We miss you, your smile and the smile you put on all those handicapped children. They love you, Ace.

    mg (8cbc69)

  264. I do, JF. It’s not hard to identify the “children of the same foul spirit”. The intolerance and illiberalism is there for anyone to see.

    Who are these people, Paul? Please be specific.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  265. If you think that your vaccine record is secure from the government, think again:

    https://nmsiis.health.state.nm.us/webiznet_nm_public/Application/PublicPortal

    at least not in New Mexico, a state where they don’t know what guns you have.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  266. See here for the answer. They are exempt from the executive order as the USPS is an independent agency of the federal government but would be covered by the OSHA order.

    Thank you Rip, as initial reports said otherwise. And that was my point. Since they are an organization that has more than 100 workers, they have to be covered somewhere. If not, the whole emergency thing fails.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  267. he wouldn’t drive the bus into the ditch yet again

    Into the ditch? He thinks ditches are where you drive.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  268. “You don’t have to look far when you’re plugged into the right-wing outrage machine.”

    Wrong again – I saw this while looking at FL Covid info, it was re-tweeted by the Democratic Sec of Health and Human Services for the state:

    This is a tweet from a navy veteran and Democratic candidate for Congress in 2020:

    Pam Keith Esq @pamkeith

    On 1/6/2021,

    9/11/2001 ceased being the worst thing that happened to America in my lifetime.

    It’s really weird and painful to process and say that.

    But it’s the truth.

    And quite frankly… it’s not even close.

    Obudman (6fea74)

  269. Or President Trump’s withdrawal, while quicker — he planned to be out by May Day — would have been better organized and more soundly conducted.

    What part of his administration would you call “organized” or “sound”?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  270. What would have happened is that Trump would have ordered the generals to do it, they would have asked for more time and not got it. Things would have been just as chaotic.

    But then Trump would have fired the generals and called them incompetent, called the Americans who were caught behind idiots or worse, and his posse would have echoed him as they always do.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  271. 258 – you voted worse than Trump. You own this. Quit attempting to justify your pathetic vote.

    The people who made the choice about Trump or Biden (or Trump and Hillary) are the ones to blame. Everything else is just deflection.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  272. Who are these people, Paul? Please be specific.

    Proud Boys and Antifa, two sides of the same coin.
    Any BLMers who resorted to violence and property damage.
    The Boogaloos.
    Al Qaeda.
    The Islamic State.
    Boko Haram and other militant Islamist groups.
    The Taliban.
    The 639 who were criminally charged on 1/6.
    The Pittsburgh mosque shooter.
    The El Paso Walmart shooter.
    The “Jews will not replace us” crowd in Charlottesville.
    The tw@t who shot up a Congressional baseball practice.
    The tw@t who shot up the Family Research Council and was found with 50 rounds of ammo and 15 Chick Fil A sandwiches.
    Like that.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  273. “The people who made the choice about Trump or Biden (or Trump and Hillary) are the ones to blame. Everything else is just deflection.”

    Meh… the people who cast their top of the ticket votes for candidates that had no prospects of victory were just ‘bating.

    The persons to blame are those that made deliberate choices along the way that facilitated the chaos seen in Afghanistan… made even worse by them knowing the chaos that would result was virtually guaranteed: the Biden Junta.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  274. Proud Boys and Antifa, two sides of the same coin.

    I must have missed the reports of hundreds of millions in damage, the murder victims and livelihoods lost as a result of activities of the Proud Boys. As for 1/6, those of us that have been paying attention have seen the side by side comparison of the results of 1/6 and the Summer of 2020… and the FBI shenanigans.

    No disagreements with most of the rest… although some of it sounds like a leftie whaddaboutism wet dream (Teh Boogaloos!?!?!). 🙄

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  275. You asked who they were, not a price tag on their violence, Haiku. The Proud Boys are there because they abuse their First Amendment right to peaceable assembly by resorting to violence.
    As for the Boogaloos, they’ve killed more people than Laura Bush.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  276. So it’s clown nose on then…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  277. But thanks for an unfettered view of your mindset.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  278. You’re welcome. I apologize for none of it.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  279. Have a great evening!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  280. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rQWh62VUHE
    In memory of all lost on 9-11
    Duane Allman and Dickey Betts getting down

    mg (8cbc69)

  281. Meh… the people who cast their top of the ticket votes for candidates that had no prospects of victory were just ‘bating.

    Sorry, but “eff you both” is a vote. Doesn’t have to win. Why would I want to vote for someone I despise, just because I despise them a bit less than the other jerk?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  282. And for all the mistakes we’ve made in Afghanistan and Iraq and so forth in this War Against Militant Islamism, murders on our soil by said terrorists since 9/11 have been low, lower than murders by right-wing zealots.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  283. 291- you will never shed the worse than Trump label.

    mg (8cbc69)

  284. NewAmerica is a leftwing, Soros-affiliated entity.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  285. Funders of NewAmerica… https://www.newamerica.org/our-funding/our-funders/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  286. NewAmerica is a leftwing, Soros-affiliated entity.

    Who knew that facts have a left-wing bias, CH. Peter Bergen put this together, and he’s credible.
    BTW, I’m taking “So it’s clown nose on then…” as a personal attack. You crossed a line.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  287. Low life scum at New America.

    mg (8cbc69)

  288. Grow some skin dude

    mg (8cbc69)

  289. Time123 (224669) — 9/11/2021 @ 12:47 pm

    This comment is just a longer way to say what I said in @184. Let me try to summarize the conversation;

    Rip: something something COVID
    Time: that’s interesting
    f: Rip’s comment is anti-vaccine propaganda
    Time: my tribe is pro-vax and nothing I say is anti-vax
    f: yes. I understand that
    Time: seriously nothing I say can be anti-vax by definition

    If it helps I think it’s ok to find something interesting and it doesn’t make you anti-vax.

    frosty (5b7aec)

  290. The Tides Foundation and Open Society are known, documented zealots with far-left agendas. And others listed aren’t “conservative-friendly” by any stretch.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  291. Mr. President George W. Bush 43 may be right about the unity he got after 9/11, but with a twenty year perspective, I for one am sorry that I was one of his chittering lemmings.

    nk (1d9030)

  292. Frosty, what an amazingly inaccurate summation.

    Time123 (224669)

  293. I disagree, Time123. It would be amazing if Frosty was honest one time.

    dustin (8ba395)

  294. One observation I have from Trump’s fans is that suddenly they are convinced Trump lost because the voters rejected him, fair and square, and therefore everything Biden does is the fault of every one of Trump’s critics.

    Just a few weeks ago, Trump won, and the voters had nothing to do with the outcome.

    I call that progress.

    I also call Biden a truly awful president, and this urge to screech at conservatives from sell-outs (ace of spades, instapunidt, gateway, etc) and their suckers is a little-too-obvious. You Trump defenders need to start thinking a couple moves ahead. We’re where we are, with Biden winning easily, for reasons. Just think. You want different results? Try different things. Click bait fake-conservatives, the guys who are just mad-on-brand, they are not your friends.

    dustin (8ba395)

  295. “Trutherism” is still with us:

    Today, 9/11 conspiracy theories remain widespread: 1 in 6 Americans think Bush administration officials knew about the attacks and intentionally let them happen so they could wage war in the Middle East. Others go further, arguing that the government planned and executed the attacks.

    Although which groups believe it most have changed:

    After Bush left office, conspiracy-theory enthusiasts found new obsessions, such as Obama’s birth certificate. But in 2016, amid the rise of Donald Trump (and eight years of Obama as president), Trutherism became more prevalent among Republicans.

    Though still slightly more common among Democrats.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  296. @296 paul let’s the mask slip

    though it had always been at waist level

    now that it’s down around his ankles he thinks he can do the big reveal

    we always knew, paul

    JF (e1156d)

  297. #301 You may be disappointed to learn that Bush’s favorability rating has been climbing and hit 61 percent in 2018.

    (There may be more recent polls, but I didn’t find any with a very quick search.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  298. #301 You may be disappointed to learn that Bush’s favorability rating has been climbing and hit 61 percent in 2018.

    Sure. He picked up a lot of Obama fans by being seen on TV giving candy to Michelle. 😉

    I meant the jingoism that united us. It led to a lot of bad things.

    nk (1d9030)

  299. @269. It’s not hard to identify the “children of the same foul spirit”

    No. It’s not… is it:

    Dubya fought hard against even having a 9/11 commission. And the Cowpie in Chief, Daddy Darth ‘insisted on testifying together and not under oath… -source, wikiimnottoblame.buckpasser

    Armitage, Blackwill, Hadley, Perle, Zakheim, Zoellick, Wolfowitz, Rice, Libby, Abrams, Bauer, Bennett, Jeb!, Steve Forbes, Frank Gaffney, Donald Kagan, Podhoretz, Quayle, Vin Weber, dead Don Rumsfeld, Charen, Kristol, Goldberg, French, Bozell, Erickson, Helprin… etc., etc.

    Indeed no, it’s not hard to identify these kiddos at all…

    https://www.nationalreview.com/2016/01/donald-trump-conservatives-oppose-nomination/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  300. You may be disappointed to learn that Bush’s favorability rating has been climbing and hit 61 percent in 2018.

    Out of sight; out of mind.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  301. The hand of God at work; there are no coincidences…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zd7eWKCOk-A&list=RDzd7eWKCOk-A&index=4

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  302. Worse than Trump loudmouths back a below ground senile pos.

    mg (8cbc69)

  303. Love it, Col.

    mg (8cbc69)

  304. – joe the sniffer vs hunter the snorter vs jill the pill giver
    Vote for the worst Biden

    mg (8cbc69)

  305. @296 paul let’s the mask slip

    I’ve been a Republican since Reagan’s first term.
    I’ll just note that mg and Haiku resorted to ad hom in lieu addressing any substance.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  306. dustin (8ba395) — 9/11/2021 @ 4:16 pm

    I disagree, Time123. It would be amazing if Frosty was honest one time.

    Point to a lie I’ve told

    frosty (fb573b)

  307. Jill Biden is a long-time English teacher, with a doctoral degree in education. So she probably doesn’t give out many pills.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  308. I’ll just note that mg and Haiku resorted to ad hom in lieu addressing any substance.

    With that cast of characters and funders, I was able to quickly discern this (NewAmerica) is a leftwing think tank, so that allowed me to do something more constructive with my time.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  309. With that cast of characters and funders, I was able to quickly discern this (NewAmerica) is a leftwing think tank, so that allowed me to do something more constructive with my time.

    Thank you, for confirming that you chose ad hom in lieu of addressing the issue. The facts aren’t the province of the New American. There are other analyses that say pretty much the same thing, so you’re in denial if you can’t accept that right-wingers killed more on our soil than militant Islamists after 9/11.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  310. “ As for the Boogaloos, they’ve killed more people than Laura Bush.”

    So this was a serious comment, not meant as a joke, Paul? If it was, I misunderstood.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  311. It was a semi-reply to JF.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  312. Whatever that is…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  313. Time123 (224669) — 9/11/2021 @ 4:13 pm

    I’ll give you some help in regards to felipe’s comment. You could have said it’s not anti-vax to say the covid vaccine won’t get us the herd immunity. Or that it isn’t anti-vax to say vaccines won’t get rid of covid.

    You can still do that. They door is open. Those would be respectable responses.

    Instead you went directly to a personal insult. Presumably because, as you said, I “described [it] as “anti-vax”. I didn’t and if you go back and read the sequence you might notice that. I was referring to what Rip posted which in fairness isn’t even his comment. Yes, you are worked up and your statements to the contrary only draw attention to that.

    Now you’re indignant. But you’ve confirmed everything I said.

    frosty (f27e97)

  314. you will never shed the worse than Trump label.

    mg, being “worse than Trump” in your eyes is a badge of honor.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  315. Frosty, what was the personal insult?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  316. Sept 10 was traveling from Durango, CO to Mexican Hat UT.
    I went for breakfast here at 6:30AM 9/11 http://www.sanjuaninn.net/ (It looks a lot better now 20 years ago, I thought it was about to collapse into the river) I was minding my own business when people started getting agitated and turned up the TV.

    One thing I will never forget about that area was that they decided to close the Navajo Schools down and send all the kids home.
    That is a big operation and never understood exactly why.
    Comfort of family in a tough time? Probably, but at first they were playing it off like a move to keep the kids safe. From what? Even the Navajos in charge of the schools can’t find all the schools in their system without help much less some terrorists from the East Coast.

    steveg (2c7127)

  317. So she probably doesn’t give out many pills.

    Given who she lives with she likely takes them by the fist full.

    Let’s ask Hunter- he’d know.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  318. Paul, great links. Thank you for providing well researched information.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  319. I’ve been a Republican since Reagan’s first term.

    And he voted for FDR.

    4 times.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  320. @Dustin 304. I don’t think it’s progress. I think they’re perfectly capable of holding mutually exclusive facts as true if both facts make them feel good about themselves or generate clicks.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  321. What Time123 said, Paul. And I would have been amazed if you had gotten anything but ad hominem, and by “anything” I include a simple expression of skepticism, from the parties in question.

    Personally, I’d asterisk 25 of the jihad numbers, because I suspect that at least half the people at the Pulse nightclub were killed by the police when they stormed the place and not Omar Mateen.

    nk (1d9030)

  322. Another crazed conspiracy theory!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  323. Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/11/2021 @ 7:36 pm

    Frosty, what was the personal insult?

    Your response was:

    But I don’t think your understanding of what is/is not anti-vax propaganda is very accurate.

    This is not a response on the merits. You don’t give any actual response other than to question my “understanding”. You double down later trying to put me in with 9/11 truthers.

    So my guess is now, based on prior history, you’re going to try some sort of dismissive comment again and we’re going to play a little game where even though this particular thread all started because you got your feelings hurt you’re going to try to make it about me claiming I was insulted. All in the hopes of moving away from the point that your best go to was an insult right from the start.

    frosty (f27e97)

  324. 63 felipe (484255) — 9/10/2021 @ 3:38 pm

    I have been told that the calendar repeats every 11 years, so…

    Every 28 years, or, around a century year which is not a leap year, like 1900, after either 12 or 40 years.

    It isn’t always 11 years, but it can be 11 years. Yhat is only if 3 leap years are included (11+3=14 which i evenly divisible by 7 but 11 years can include only 2 leap years) It usually repeats after 6 but can repeat after only 5 years (like 2007 and 2012 after February)

    By the way, there’s actually a short Jewish prayer (established probably because of a mistake) that is said once every 28 years, on a Wednesday early in the spring.

    Every year the same calendar date comes out a day later, and two days, if it is a leap year (and after the end of February):

    It goes like this:

    1 2 3 5 6 7 8=1 3 4 5 6 8=1 2 3 4 6 7 8=1 2 4 5 and 6 7 9=2 3 4 5 7 8=1

    Tuesday Sept 11 would be 2001, 2007, 2012 2018 and not again till 2029

    Friday Sept 11 (#4 over here) would be 2009, 2015, 2020 and 2026

    Saturday Sept 11 is 2004, 2010, 2021 and 2027

    I was wrong. It came out two times before on a Saturday,

    In 28 years, every day of the week gets to be it 4 times.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  325. Frosty, that’s not a personal insult. But I’m happy to drop the topic.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  326. Wanted to add, I wasn’t trying to put you in with the 9/11 truthers. I picked their conspiracy theory for the example to illustrate my point but I wasn’t trying to imply any kinship between you and them.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  327. Wish I’d said that in my first comment. Hit submit too fast.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  328. Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 9/11/2021 @ 8:02 pm

    Thank you, Sammy. I admire your attention to detail.

    felipe (484255)

  329. And he voted for FDR.
    4 times.

    So what.

    “I know Hillary and I think she’d make a great president or vice-president.”
    –Donald J. Trump, 2008

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  330. @Dustin 304. I don’t think it’s progress. I think they’re perfectly capable of holding mutually exclusive facts as true if both facts make them feel good about themselves or generate clicks.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/11/2021 @ 7:49 pm

    yeah, of course this is right. Trump supporters are just one example. I think the most obvious example today is the folks flipping out about Texas’s abortion law, because of our right to privacy or personal choices about our bodies, while cheering Biden’s vaccine overreach. Emotional politics makes hacks our of a lot of nerds.

    But it’s still pretty funny that these cranks are angry that the voters rejected Trump. They should be. A few guys in this thread want to have Trump’s baby, and Trump is a big stupid loser because of the choice of folks like me. hahahaha

    dustin (8ba395)

  331. Why can’t there be this swift level of accountability at the Pentagon/JCOS/Cabinet:

    https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/college-football/college-football-oc-fired-after-embarrassing-loss/

    urbanleftbehind (640f12)

  332. @340. So what it should tell you is plenty… if you care to look.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  333. Poor little ad hom got under his thin skin, some people love to dish it out, but cant take it.
    Worse than Trump is no way to wear a badge of honor.
    Cellar dweller voters love high prices, empty shelves, liz cheney, mittens and an education system that is a complete failure.

    mg (8cbc69)

  334. https://dailycaller.com/2021/09/11/college-football-week-two-fk-joe-biden-chants-video-alabama-auburn/
    Young people speaking their minds. About time the young realize what worse than Trump is all about.

    mg (8cbc69)

  335. yeah, of course this is right. Trump supporters are just one example. I think the most obvious example today is the folks flipping out about Texas’s abortion law, because of our right to privacy or personal choices about our bodies, while cheering Biden’s vaccine overreach. Emotional politics makes hacks our of a lot of nerds.

    My main objection to the Texas law is the way it’s structured; creating a very plaintiff favorable right of action targeted against legal behavior when there’s no direct harm to the plaintiff.

    The body autonomy and privacy aspect doesn’t seem like a conflict to me so much as an unwillingness to address the opposing arguments on the merits. We have a right to body autonomy and privacy and that right is limited when it causes harm to others. For example some drug use causes harm to society as a whole, when you believe the fetus is a living person abortion causes harm to them, deadly and highly contagious diseases are a public health issue etc.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  336. Paul, I think you pushed mg over the edge.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  337. The problem with the Texas law is that it’s from Texas. In the same sense that water is wet because it’s water.

    nk (1d9030)

  338. MG,

    I am glad you are banging the drum against worsethantrump. There is no way Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Steve Miller and Donald J. Trump Jr should ever be allowed into public life again! Excellent job, sir!

    Appalled (d3be75)

  339. Where does this dude fall on the George W Bush ledger of children from bad spirits?

    https://news.yahoo.com/lawyer-killer-thought-she-pro-221112815.html

    urbanleftbehind (640f12)

  340. Poor little ad hom got under his thin skin, some people love to dish it out, but cant take it.

    This is the second time you made a “thin skin” comment, so my calling out CH must’ve gotten under your thin skin.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  341. That’s a tough one, ulb…

    Points taken away for teh batsh*t crazy… but “kills a lawyer” puts some in the plus column.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  342. No Victory Mincing on the Day of Rest, Paul.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  343. Most Republicans want Trump as the GOP’s leader but are divided about whether he’d help them retake the White House
    ………
    Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say, 63% to 37%, that Trump should be the leader of the Republican Party. But they are about evenly split over whether having the defeated former President back on the ticket in 2024 would be an advantage: 51% say that Republicans have a better chance of retaking the presidency if Trump is the nominee, with 49% saying the party would be better off with a different nominee. That’s a very different landscape from 2019, when more than three-quarters of Republicans said their party had a better shot in 2020 with Trump as their nominee than they would with a different candidate.

    Trump’s support isn’t equally distributed throughout the party: 69% of Republicans without a college degree think Trump should head the party, compared with 49% of those who hold a college degree. A 72% majority of conservatives say Trump should head the party, compared to 49% among the smaller bloc of moderates in the party. And 71% of self-identified Republicans want Trump to lead the party, compared with 51% of Republican-leaning independents who say the same.

    Most Republicans also consider support for Trump — and his false claim to have won the 2020 election — to be an important part of their own partisan identity alongside support for conservative principles. ……..
    ………
    Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents are most likely to tie their identity as Democrats to support for progressive policies and more government aid, the most recent poll finds.……
    ………
    On the Democratic side, the sharpest divisions come along generational and racial lines. ……..
    ………
    Both Democrats and Republicans are currently satisfied with the ideological positions their own parties are staking out. The vast majority of Republicans, 86%, call the GOP mainstream; on the flip side, 92% of Democrats see their party as mainstream, and 96% say the same of Biden.

    Americans are closely split in their views of the Republican Party, with 51% calling it too extreme and 49% saying it’s generally mainstream. They say, 54% to 45%, that the Democratic Party is generally mainstream……..
    ………

    But where Democrats are broadly happy with their current leadership in Congress, Republicans — especially those with weak ties to the party — are less satisfied. Most self-identified Republicans, 58%, approve of their party’s congressional leadership. But among independents who lean toward the Republican Party, that number falls sharply to 29%. By contrast, 83% of Democrats approve of their party’s congressional leadership, as do 69% of Democratic-leaning independents.

    Overall, Americans disapprove of Democratic congressional leaders by a 10-percentage point margin, 55% to 45%, and disapprove of the Republican leaders by a wider 38-point margin, 69% to 31%……….
    ………….
    Poll details. The poll found that 61% of Republicans said that it was “very/somewhat important” to their identity as a Republican to support Donald Trump and 59% of Republicans said it was “very/somewhat important” to their identity to believe Trump won the 2020 election.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  344. Two percent of Americans participating in a CNN poll think the United States is doing “very well” under President Joe Biden, results revealed Friday.

    “How well are things going in the country today?” CNN asked respondents. Two percent said “very well,” 29 percent said “fairly well,” 45 percent said “pretty bad,” and 24 percent said “very badly.”

    http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/09/10/rel5a.-.biden.us.economy.pdf

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  345. “More children have been the victims of gun violence in Chicago this year than have died from COVID-19 across the entire country, according to police and the Centers for Disease Control and Protection.

    The CDC reported that 214 children 17-years old or younger have died of COVID-19 nationwide so far this year — compared to 261 Chicago kids who have been victims of gunfire in Chicago, according to police statistics reported by Fox News…

    More children have been fatally shot on the streets of Chicago than have died of COVID-19 in the state of Illinois.

    Police reported 41 deaths of children under 18 in Chicago so far this year. In the state of Illinois, deaths of children from COVID-19 totaled 25, according to the Illinois Department of Public Health.”

    https://nypost.com/2021/09/11/more-children-in-chicago-have-been-shot-than-died-from-covid/

    Colonel Haiku (9a8c5f)

  346. No Victory Mincing on the Day of Rest, Paul.

    No personal attacks on any day, Haiku, but thanks for all the more revealing your character.

    Mincing: adjective, DEROGATORY; affectedly dainty in manner or gait; effeminate (typically used of a man).

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  347. Translucent!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  348. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/11/2021 @ 9:26 am

    Ask yourself this: If the TX law set the ban after 26 weeks, instead of 6, with the same enforcement mechanisms, would it be a better law? I’d say not.

    I’ve no interest in defending the TX law. For the purposes of this discussion I’m willing to stipulate that it’s got issues.

    I’m more interested in your and Time’s ability to discuss with passion and authority things like standing, damages, jurisdiction, rule of law, legal consequences, etc for the TX law but with respect to Roe or the DOJ suit you both demure.

    It can’t be that you’re going the ends justify the means route and simply ignoring the DOJ suit or Roe because you agree with the outcome. You both are critical of ends/means and Time has been critical of it specifically on this issue.

    Picking just one element; if both the TX law and the DOJ case have standing issues how is one good and the other bad.

    frosty (f27e97)

  349. Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/12/2021 @ 4:24 am

    For example some drug use causes harm to society as a whole, when you believe the fetus is a living person abortion causes harm to them, deadly and highly contagious diseases are a public health issue etc.

    Do you think reducing the number of babies born by between 600k and 800k per year over they last 15 years is a net harm or a net benefit to society.

    frosty (f27e97)

  350. @361, no idea at all what the net impact is.

    Time123 (54e6d2)

  351. BBC – Scientists not backing Covid jabs for 12 to 15-year-olds

    “The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation said children were at such a low risk from the virus that jabs would offer only a marginal benefit.

    The decision not to recommend the vaccine to all healthy children was based on concern over an extremely rare side effect of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines which causes heart inflammation, and can lead to palpitations and chest pain.
    Data from the US, where millions of young teenagers have been vaccinated, suggests there are 60 cases of the heart condition for every million second doses given to 12 to 17-year-old boys (compared to eight in one million in girls).

    But as children are at such low risk from the virus, the JCVI decided that vaccination would offer only “marginal gain” and, therefore, there was “insufficient” evidence to offer mass vaccination to this age group.

    The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation did advise widening the existing vaccine programme to include an extra 200,000 teenagers with specific underlying conditions.
    Doctors identified that children with chronic heart, lung and liver conditions were at much higher risk of Covid than healthy children.

    The UK’s four chief medical officers have now been asked to have the final say, and to consider the wider impact on schools and society. Health Secretary Sajid Javid said a decision would be made shortly.

    The vaccine advisers have been under huge pressure.

    Ministers have let it be known they are very keen on getting this age group vaccinated – both through their public pronouncements and privately behind the scenes.

    This has caused frustration among JCVI members – with some complaining about the habit of government officials sitting in on meetings.

    Despite this, the JCVI has stood firm.”

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58438669.amp

    The data is getting out there….I hope they follow the science and not the politicians.

    Obudman (03720c)

  352. Mensa member in good standing… https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/473311/#respond

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  353. And he voted for FDR.

    4 times.

    And you voted for Carter and Mondale?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  354. @364, good read and if this bares out I agree with your conclusion. Thank you for posting.

    Time123 (54e6d2)

  355. Poor little ad hom got under his thin skin

    Only ad homs and thin skin I see here are mg’s

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  356. So why didn’t they do more to protect

    Why didn’t the government do more to solve the homeless problem.

    Why didn’t the government do more to solve the rising crime problem.

    Why didn’t the government do more to solve failing public schools.

    Why didn’t the government do more to solve inflation.

    Why didn’t the government do more to solve the rising cost of living.

    Maybe the problem is the government.

    BillPasadena (5b0401)

  357. Poll details. The poll found that 61% of Republicans said that it was “very/somewhat important” to their identity as a Republican to support Donald Trump and 59% of Republicans said it was “very/somewhat important” to their identity to believe Trump won the 2020 election

    This worries me. Part of what makes democracy stable is our investment in the system. Belief that the system itself is legitimate and important. Faith that a lost election isn’t permanent and that you get to try again next time.

    The belief that Trump was the rightful winner of the election is based on a conspiracy theory. The GOP leaderships support of that lie is part of what was alienated me from the current party.

    Time123 (54e6d2)

  358. @360:

    Frosty, I think you miss my point. My objection to the TX law has little to do with it being about abortion. The enforcement provisions and handicapping of the defense are the real issues and the reason why this needs to strangled in the crib. So to speak.

    The DoJ suit seems to focus on the “constitutional right to an abortion” when it should be focusing on “privileges or immunities” and other doctrines of equal rights before the law. Maybe it does somewhere in that brief, I’m too lazy to drill down into it. If their clams are about abortion, they really ought to find a woman denied one before they sue.

    I do think the DoJ has standing if they are opposing this “law” under the 14th Amendment, but not under the hidden abortion amendment.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  359. Victory mincing = Trump is a world class, totally consistent loser and it’s super sad if we don’t explain how unfair that is, 100% of our lives, even if it is the source of all that losing.

    dustin (d6cbf9)

  360. @370:

    Trump has been more effective at destabilizing the United States than all of Hollywood put together. Talk about a useful idiot.

    The day he dies will be a good day for the United States.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  361. … and deney Terrio makes an appearance…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  362. If someone can get an FJB chant going at a Fiestas Patrias or like event (btw only 5% masks where I’m sitting now) it was over before it began.

    urbanleftbehind (640f12)

  363. L“It was a privilege to be able to do it,” Buscemi said at the time of his efforts at ground zero. “It was great to connect with the firehouse I used to work with and with some of the guys I worked alongside. And it was enormously helpful for me because while I was working, I didn’t really think about it as much, feel it as much.” On September 12, 2001 and for several days following Brother Steve worked 12-hour shifts alongside other firefighters digging and sifting through the rubble from the World Trade Center looking for survivors.

    https://www.good.is/articles/steve-buscemi-september-eleventh-fdny?utm_content=inf_10_81_2&utm_source=TSE&utm_medium=FB&utm_campaign=pd&tse_id=INF_a5a45c0077ef11e6b4a837a70f1f52b1

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  364. Did those boys from Alabama have their banjos on their knees? Cause they’re way behind the curve. FDT (and you know what it means) has been around for five years.

    nk (1d9030)

  365. Kevin, wishing for Trumps death is kind of gross and not justified just because he’s a garbage person.

    It also won’t matter. The real problem is a large chunk of the electorate that demands support of a lie over support of country.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  366. Children under the age of eighteen shot in Chicago. Good grief! Were these children Latin Kings or Gangster Disciples, and how many were shot by the police?

    nk (1d9030)

  367. OT, but relevant….

    Dana, JVW, and other guest bloggers. I truly appreciate and enjoy your posts. You spend time and effort putting them together, and even if I don’t comment much anymore, I am grateful for them.

    I’m just missing Patterico. Even his Sunday musical posts. Please give him my best wishes.

    Simon Jester (bca565)

  368. 249, DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 9/11/2021 @ 12:24 pm

    For example, those of us alive in December, 1961 – 20 years after Pearl Harbor- were not subjected to a relentless media bombardment about the sneak attack for days on end.

    The anniversary that they paid attention to was that of D-Day. (not that I noticed. I was too young. But there are some famous specials) Not Pearl Harbor, not V-E or V-J day.

    But I think really the 40th and the 50th anniversaries.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  369. Never forget. Never forgive.

    “ At some point in the next few minutes, it dawned on me that there would be few bodies found in the incinerating rubble across the river. I knew then — as certainly as I have ever known anything — that all those who had still been in the towers had now gone into the flame and the smoke and that, in some way, the gleaming bits of yellow ash were their tokens, were what they had become in that plunging crematorium.

    And I knew that all they had become had fallen upon us as we ran in the smoke; that we had breathed them in when the wind reached us; that they were covering the houses and the sills and the cars and the sidewalks and the benches and the shrubs and the trees all about us.

    What they had become was what the wind without a storm had left behind.

    Now that the wind had passed everything was, again, silent and calm. The blue sky above the houses on Pierrepont Street in Brooklyn Heights was beginning to emerge from the fading smoke as the breeze of the harbor shifted the plume away from us, moving it north, uptown, into Manhattan, leaving the Heights again as an elite enclave, above and to the side of New York City.

    The yellow flecks remained, resting like small stars on the surface of everything in the Heights for three days until the first rains came on a late afternoon to wash them away. I walked out into that rain and back down Pierrepont Street to the Promenade where for months yet to come the fires would burn across the river.

    The rain came straight down that day. There was no wind. As I walked down the sidewalk I noticed the rainwater washing those yellow flecks off the trees and the buildings and moving down the gutter to the drains that would take it on to the harbor and on to the sea. And that water was — for only a minute or so before it ran clear — gold.”

    https://americandigest.org/the-wind-in-the-heights/#comments

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  370. The New York Times has a front page article about Jonathan Mitchell, the Texan who devised the Texas law about abortion.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/12/us/politics/texas-abortion-lawyer-jonathan-mitchell.html

    Jonathan F. Mitchell grew increasingly dismayed as he read the Supreme Court’s decision in June 2016 striking down major portions of a Texas anti-abortion bill he had helped write…

    …For Mr. Mitchell, a onetime clerk to Justice Antonin Scalia, the decision was a stinging rebuke, and he vowed that if he ever had the chance to help develop another anti-abortion law, he would ensure it survived at the Supreme Court….

    ….The court’s decision did not address the law’s constitutionality, and the legislation will no doubt face more substantive challenges. But already, the audacious legislative structure that Mr. Mitchell had conceived of — built around deputizing ordinary citizens to enforce it rather than the state — has flummoxed lower courts and sent the Biden administration and other supporters of abortion rights scrambling for some way to stop it.

    Meanwhile, in Mexico, their Supreme Court has ruled that their anti-abortion law – which punishes women by the way – is not enforceable.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/08/world/americas/mexico-abortion-access.html

    Ms. Pech is among the thousands of women who have been investigated for illegally obtaining abortion in recent years. In the first seven months of this year alone, 432 investigations were opened across Mexico into cases of illegal abortion, according to the Mexican government.

    The ruling on Tuesday set a legal precedent for the nation — and stands in stark contrast to the trend in the United States, where Texas and other states have recently moved to restrict abortion. The court’s decision also raised the prospect of Mexico eventually becoming a destination for American women seeking to end their pregnancies, advocates said, though that would require removing the many obstacles that make abortion difficult to obtain in much of the country.

    Tuesday’s decision applies only to the border state of Coahuila, and putting it into practice nationwide requires either legal challenges in each of the 28 states in Mexico that still criminalize the procedure, or a change in law by state legislatures. The justices did not specify how far into a pregnancy a woman can legally obtain an abortion, meaning those terms will likely be determined at the state level.,,,

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  371. @370 next time a republican wins, people won’t trust the system any more than now but it’ll be okay cuz the distrust and all the conspiracy theories will be properly predicated and the full force of the federal government will be behind it — you know, the system

    then when a democrat wins, the distrust will be confined to the usual kooks but will go back to being a critical and dire problem we need to ponder

    JF (e1156d)

  372. 371, Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/12/2021 @ 9:39 am

    . If their clams are about abortion, they really ought to find a woman denied one before they sue.

    No woman has been denied one by the law. They’ve been denied them by lawyers, as a precaution.

    No injunction against anyone facilitating an abortion has as of yet been issued

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  373. DCSCA @330

    And he voted for FDR.

    4 times.

    Ronald Reagan did?

    https://millercenter.org/president/reagan/life-before-the-presidency

    Throughout his life, Ronald Reagan displayed a strong interest in politics….The entire Reagan family supported Franklin D. Roosevelt for President in 1932 and backed his New Deal….Reagan was grateful to FDR for providing work for his father and brother in New Deal relief programs. He voted for FDR each of the four times he was elected President and continued to speak well of him even after he became a conservative Republican.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  374. JF, there’s some truth to that. Al Gore was a big sore loser, and in my opinion, the Clinton admin’s BS about transition was one reason the Bush administration had a rough first year.

    2000, and how the GOP did an effective job in 2001 after 9/11, set the democrats up to be crazy. I think the rest of the story with extremist conspiracies is how our nation’s enemies have used the internet to empower the dumbest and worst, while the media rewarded the dumbest and worst with excellent coverage. Trump is an episode in a long series, not the source of the problem. Biden is not really. He’s just a helpless passenger in an administration run by extremists.

    But we can talk about how terrible Trump fans and nevertrumpers and lefties are all day. All that does is fuel the division and destruction of the country. That is apparently the purpose of most political blogs and major political tweeters adn online pundits.

    The core truth remains the same. The run-of-the-mill Trump voter or democrat or conservative wants the same general life for their family. Seriously. we want the same stuff for the most part, disagree about the nerdy bits about how to get there, and are programmed to see everybody as terrible for some reason. It’s amazing.

    Also this has got to be the most beautiful weather in Texas in months and life is good.

    dustin (d6cbf9)

  375. Go get ‘em, Dubyuh…
    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/473409/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  376. Many elderly people in nursing homes with dementia or the like being falsely diagnosed with schizophrenia so they can be give antipsychotics, which risk killing them (and anyone with a genuine diagnoses too, of course) without being included in reports required to be made public about how many patients are given them.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/11/health/nursing-homes-schizophrenia-antipsychotics.html

    Phony Diagnoses Hide High Rates of Drugging at Nursing Homes

    At least 21 percent of nursing home residents are on antipsychotic drugs, a Times investigation found.

    …. The risks to patients treated with antipsychotics are so high that nursing homes must report to the government how many of their residents are on these potent medications. But there is an important caveat: The government doesn’t publicly divulge the use of antipsychotics given to residents with schizophrenia or two other conditions.

    With the doctor’s new diagnosis, Mr. Blakeney’s antipsychotic prescription disappeared from Dundee Manor’s public record.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  377. If you want to hear anti-vaccination arguments targeted to religious Jewish people (and particularly women I think) call 929-205-6099. Meeting ID 9521753151 with passcode 613. Conference call ends 3 pm I was informed of this by a robocall that came from 917-999-0932.

    A woman’s voice said there;d be a public meeting at a certain address from noon to 3, which could also be accessed remotely

    “Scientists doctors and rabbonim” would deal with the questions of:

    Should or should somebody not get the vaccine?

    People killed or disabled by the vaccine, (in our community) but it’s been kept quiet

    Does it even work?

    Medical treatments that have been ignored (and I can guess they don’t mean monoclonal antibodies but HCQ and ivermectin which are at best of limited effectiveness)

    What more may (supposedly) be going on.

    The danger of vaccine passports

    And the woman says “don’t repeat the mistake of Gedaliah ben Achikum” (for more about this go to
    https://www.jpost.com/opinion/op-ed-contributors/the-murder-of-gedaliah-governor-of-judea-325479

    He ignored a warning.

    Some interesting ideas in the Jerusalem Post article. It really caused a virtual complete depopulation. the royal line did come back years later in the form of Zeribavel under the Persians but was not established.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  378. The anti Covod vax forum was supposed to be available on the web at tinyurl.com/awakenmynation which rolls over to https://cplayer.streamgates.net/?Xs=covid_dudineiman

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  379. 379, nk I thought you were linking to this given your intro

    urbanleftbehind (34a32e)

  380. On Sept 11, 2001, when the Pentagon was hit, they first thought it was a car bomb (because they’d been thinking about car bombs – the “last war” – for a long time and the planes they were trying to ground had so far flown only into tall buildings. That was something that could only be done with an airplane.)

    They tended to imagine the terrorists had more resources than they did. (a perennial problem. Although, given enough time, an enemy can acquire a lot of resources.)

    Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld was one of the first to rush outside and reported back what it was.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  381. 370. Time123 (54e6d2) — 9/12/2021 @ 9:35 am

    The belief that Trump was the rightful winner of the election is based on a conspiracy theory.

    It doesn’t rise to the level of a conspiracy theory.

    It’s too incoherent, with too many different ways votes might have been stolen. It’s things thrown against the wall, in the hopes something might stick. There are no guilty parties, and no details and at most statistical “proof.”.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  382. Dr. Scott Gottlieb seems to advise people to not follow exactly the advice of the FDA, with regard to children ages 5-11 at least

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-scott-gottlieb-face-the-nation-09-12-2021

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, then it’s up to parents, whether they want to use a vaccine under emergency use for their children. If you’re a parent, what do you ask your pediatrician and are there options out there?

    DR. GOTTLIEB: Yeah, I think parents should look at this as a decision where there is some latitude in terms of what you do with your child, and you really should consult your pediatrician and have a conversation. Parents have understandable concerns about putting any new product, new medical product in a child. It’s not just this vaccine. It’s any vaccine or any therapeutic, and I understand those concerns. This isn’t a binary decision. It’s not a choice of do I vaccinate my child or not? There’s different ways to approach vaccination. You could go with one dose for now. You could potentially wait for the lower dose vaccine to be available, and some pediatricians may make that judgment. If your child’s already had COVID, one dose may be sufficient. You could space the doses out more. So, there’s a lot of discretion that pediatricians can exercise, making largely off label judgements, but exercising discretion within the context of what an individual child’s needs are, their risk is, and what the parents’ concerns are. So, I would urge every parent to have a conversation with their pediatrician. Pediatricians are very good at counseling through these decisions, and I think that they could provide good objective advice to parents.

    He says we’re at 75% vaccinated for adults and doesn’t think we will get above 90%.

    …We’re not going to get above 90%. We don’t even really reach 90% with childhood immunizations, which are mandated. So, we’re going to get somewhere between 80 and 90%. I would state that we would have gotten to 80% just on our current trajectory in short order. Perhaps with a mandate on small businesses, eventually you get to something akin to 85%, but it’s going to be slow because this is going to get litigated. It takes OSHA time to implement regulations. You’ll have to put in place guidance, give businesses a grace period and then figure out what the enforcement mechanism is going to be in. In the near term. A lot of businesses that might have mandated vaccines are now going to sit on their hands and say, I’m going to wait for OSHA to tell me just how to do it and give me more political cover. So, in the near term, you could actually discourage some vaccination.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  383. George W. Bush’s dreadful 9/11 speech

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/george-w-bush-s-dreadful-9-11-speech/ar-AAOmA92?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531

    A bum.

    With cow manure nd blood on his hands.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  384. @366. ROFLMAOPIP

    Ford, Kevin, in spite of Buckeye ‘Muck Fishigan’ bumper stickers of the era. Mondale: never. Not pro-NASA.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  385. Rose McGowan Alleges Gavin Newsom’s Wife Tried to Bribe Her Before Harvey Weinstein Scandal Broke

    McGowan, who accused Weinstein of rape at the time the allegations were made public, said she received a phone call out of the blue from a Newsom’s wife, Jennifer Siebel Newsom. McGowan shared her memory of the alleged exchange with Newsom’s wife during a Thursday appearance on The Rubin Report.

    According to McGowan, the woman who is now the wife of California’s sitting governor contacted McGowan to set up a meeting in Brentwood, California about six months before The New York Times published its investigative report about Weinstein. Newsom, who was not elected governor until the fall of 2018, was at the time serving as the state’s lieutenant governor.

    “She wanted to meet me. She reached out to me,” McGowan told The Rubin Report host Dave Rubin.

    McGowan told Rubin she went to the agreed-upon meeting location but was “creeped out” and drove away after spotting Jennifer Siebel Newsom.

    McGowan claimed that Newsom’s wife told her she was reaching out on behalf of David Boies, a well-known lawyer whose clients included Weinstein.

    “This woman I don’t know, some blonde lady with a last name of Newsom, cold calls me and is like, ‘David Boies wants to know what it would take to make you happy,'” McGowan told Rubin.

    JF (e1156d)

  386. @388: “The core truth remains the same. The run-of-the-mill Trump voter or democrat or conservative wants the same general life for their family. Seriously. we want the same stuff for the most part, disagree about the nerdy bits about how to get there, and are programmed to see everybody as terrible for some reason. It’s amazing.”

    Preach it Dustin! Everyone wants safe neighborhoods, good schools, secure jobs, and for their sports team to win. If you start with the premise that your neighbor is NOT evil…and out to destroy America, you can have a civil conversation….where, sure, you can disagree about policy preferences….but at the end of the day, the environment isn’t toxic and there can be compromise. Yes, there are topics where compromise is much harder…and there are stark differences…but we have to strive for good-faith discussions none the less. We’ve been trained by ideologically-driven media, talk radio, and internet sites….to hate and be perpetually angry. I get fighting for culture….but in a pluralistic society, attitudes change…many times for the better. There’s no going back to 1950 America. And divided we fall…

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  387. https://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/2021/08/i-do-choose-what-to-believe-and-i.html

    The polio vaccine was horrendously experimental but brilliantly effective. The Small Pox vaccine was a nightmare causing days of high fever. My two eldest children had to get it, and I’ll never forget how sick it made them. But today Small Pox is history, and my younger children and grandchildren didn’t require it. These deadly, crippling illnesses are now unknown.

    I don’t remember the smallpox vaccine causing days of high fever. Bt I was very younf. Does anyone else know this about the smallpox vaccine?

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  388. @344. ‘Cellar dweller voters love high prices, empty shelves, liz cheney, mittens and an education system that is a complete failure.’

    Pet Rocks, leisure suits, gas lines… Cher… ABBA, afros, the Thirty-Six Million Dollar Man [adjusted for inflation], Pintos, Pacers, Gremlins, rotary phones and they’ll name their newborns Vinnie and Polly Esther, too. But ahhhh, oh to return that Steeler Dynasty.

    ‘Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back!’ – ‘Welcome Back Kotter’ ABC TV, 1975-79

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  389. Dustin & AJ, great comments. Whole heartedly endorse.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  390. Here’s what American Airlines had to say about Biden’s announcement.

    https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036039856/united-airlines-ceo-on-the-decision-to-put-unvaccinated-employees-on-leave-in-oc

    CHANG: So let’s start with vaccines because the Biden administration just announced yesterday vaccine mandates for federal workers and for private companies with more than 100 employees. So I wanted to ask you, does that recent Biden administration announcement help you or give you cover for your own vaccine mandate which was announced back in early August?

    KIRBY: Well, it really doesn’t impact what we were doing in any way. I’m encouraged to see the president taking this step, but we did it because it was just the right thing to do. And because of that, we were comfortable doing it a month ago. And by the end of this month, we will have all of our employees vaccinated.

    CHANG: Well tell me, how has your vaccine mandate been working so far? I’m curious about, like, what percentage of United employees have in fact complied since the announcement back in August?

    KIRBY: Well, well over 50% of our unvaccinated employees have already been vaccinated

    .

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  391. The core truth remains the same. The run-of-the-mill Trump voter or democrat or conservative wants the same general life for their family. Seriously. we want the same stuff for the most part, disagree about the nerdy bits about how to get there, and are programmed to see everybody as terrible for some reason. It’s amazing.

    Free health care, cheap gas, non-fattening hot fudge sundaes, pizza for breakfast; every spouse a Victoria’s Secret model or a Tom Selleck/Denzel Washington, soccer the national pastime…

    Seriously. “Preach it Dustin!”

    There’s no such thing as ‘the run of the mill Trump voter’ Dustin.

    Seriously.

    ‘Aaaaaaaaamazing.’

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  392. There’s no going back to 1950 America.

    ROFLMAOPIP Beaush!t! More creamed chipped Cheney on toast.

    The Ideological Conservative Anthem:

    Barry’s Boys

    We’re the bright young men
    Who wanna go back to 1910, we’re Barry’s boys
    We’re the kids with a cause
    Yes a government like grandmama’s, we’re Barry’s boys
    We’re the new kind of youth at your alma mater
    Back to silver standards and solid Goldwater
    Back to when the poor were poor and rich were rich
    And you felt so damn secure just knowing which were which

    We’re the kids who agree to be social without security, we’re Barry’s boys
    Because his hat’s in the ring
    Where Westbrook Pegler once was king
    Now he’s too left wing
    So if you don’t recognize any old Red China
    Or Canada or Britain or South Carolina
    You too can join the crew
    Tippecanoe and Nixon too
    Back to Barry
    Back to cash and carry
    Back with Barry’s boys

    Why does a chicken cross the road?
    To get from the left to the right
    (Right!)

    Roses are red, violets are blue
    Walter Lippmann’s a pinko too

    A-la-ka-nee, ka-nah, ka-nay
    Let’s investigate the PTA

    Barry, Barry, make your bid
    I love John Birch, but oh, you kid

    Mother, mother, wear a grin
    And don’t complain, or we’ll turn you in

    Hold the presses, stop the mail
    The Pentagon’s having a one-cent sale

    What’s the latest news statistic?
    Hootenannies are socialistic

    Shut the door and lock and latch it
    Here comes Lizzie with a brand new hatchet
    Back with Barry’s boys

    We’re the kids full of nerve
    As long as it’s conservative, we’re Barry’s boys
    And we can’t comprehend why our parents aren’t friendlier to Barry’s boys
    Why Dad once crusaded for Sacco, Vanzetti
    Now all we’re doing is doing the same for John Paul Getty
    Our parents emulated Roosevelt and Farley
    But we just want to grow up to be like Ev and Charlie (right!)

    No college days with Socrates or Plato when you’re Barry’s boys
    Just organize parades for the abolishment of NATO and the rest
    (The entire West!)
    So let’s go back to the days when men were men
    And start the first World War all over again
    That’s right you tell ’em son
    Isolationism can be fun
    Back to Barry
    Back to cash and carry
    Back with Barry’s

    And remember
    I’m an American first and a politician second
    Spoken like a true American politician

    Back with Barry, not to Lyndon, Ike or Harry
    Back with Barry’s boys

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j-8Q79U1qk

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  393. Anyway, crazy aside [Ed. for clarification: I am referring to Josh Mandel], this is so true

    Truer: this dude dresses like he ordered his wardrobe out of a 1966 JC Penney’s catalogue.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  394. @405 reporter and ceo sympatico on government forced vaccine mandates

    shocking

    to be a challenging interview the subject would have to be ceo pay or why comfort mini horses are no longer allowed on board

    JF (e1156d)

  395. Replace Fauci with Gottlieb.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  396. @401 ah, i get it now

    if we had just appealed to these live and let live sentiments the previous four years, the dogs would’ve been called off

    we all just want the same thing for our families, so tone it down

    something tells me this is only heard when a democrat is in power

    and i think that something is called memory and the historical record

    JF (e1156d)

  397. “McGowan, who accused Weinstein of rape at the time the allegations were made public, said she received a phone call out of the blue from a Newsom’s wife, Jennifer Siebel Newsom.”

    This Jennifer Siebel Newsom?

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/harvey-weinstein-and-the-end-of-open-secrets_b_59d7fd7be4b08ce873a8cdf7

    Davethulhu (9b9639)

  398. CNN’s Dr Lena Wen (former head of Planned Parenthood): ‘The Unvaccinated Should Not Be Allowed To Leave Their Homes’

    “”We need to start looking at the choice to remain unvaccinated the same as we look at driving while intoxicated,” she told CNN’s Chris Cuomo Thursday night. “You have the option to not get vaccinated if you want, but then you can’t go out in public.””

    https://reason.com/2021/09/10/cnn-leana-wen-unvaccinated-travel-outdoor-ban/

    Obudman (03720c)

  399. @382. CBS Reports did the key [and best ever] D-Day 20th ‘special’ in 1964 w/Cronkite and Ike at Normandy, Sammy.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/video/cbs-reports-1964-d-day-plus-20-years-eisenhower-returns-to-normandy/

    But you miss the point.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  400. @412. “Sleeping With The Enemy”:

    Before Siebel, Newsom was married to Trump Jrs., latest bed partner and former Fox News poodle, Kimberly Guilfoyle. She’s got more miles on her than Voyager 2.

    Kimberly Guilfoyle & Gavin Newsom: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know

    https://heavy.com/news/2018/07/kimberly-guilfoyle-gavin-newsom-wife/

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  401. @412 yes, the mrs. newsom who tried to cut a deal with mcgowan then tried to get in front of the story

    Actress Rose McGowan said Thursday that California Governor Gavin Newsom’s wife allegedly tried to broker a deal between McGowan and Harvey Weinstein’s lawyer before news broke in 2017 of sexual assault allegations made against the former film producer.

    yes Davethulhu, that one

    JF (e1156d)

  402. Rose McGowan? The person to ask about see-through evening gowns when going on a date with Marilyn Manson? That Rose McGowan? Politics shore do make for strange bedfellows. SMH

    nk (1d9030)

  403. “yes Davethulhu, that one”

    Seems sketchy to me, but supposedly McGowan has sent the emails to Politico, so we should see in the next few days.

    Davethulhu (9b9639)

  404. “…and the so-called plane that crashed into the Pentagon. There’s never any evidence shown for a plane in the Pentagon.”
    —@mtgreenee, Dec. 2018

    https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1437166703201464321

    Davethulhu (9b9639)

  405. How do we know that Weinstein’s thugs did not plant the emails on her computer the way they planted the cocaine in her purse?

    nk (1d9030)

  406. Time123 (54e6d2) — 9/12/2021 @ 9:08 am

    @361, no idea at all what the net impact is.

    Do you have any idea what the net impact of the COVID deaths are?

    I’ll avoid calling anything murder since that can be distracting. Let’s call it a Fewer Americans Metric (fam). Ranged in order of fam:

    Abortion is a right so no issues.
    Heart disease; people have a right to choose all of the things that lead to heart disease.
    Cancer; we did some work on smoking but people have the right to any of the things that increase cancer risks so no issues.
    COVID; this is not about freedom. We’re spending trillions, damaging the economy, and making drastic changes to our society

    Seems strange to have such different reactions.

    frosty (d96384)

  407. @321. You forgot ‘war.’

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  408. ^421

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  409. Frosty, I’m not sure what your end point is but I don’t think your proposed metric is the best or only one to use in working out policy. Maybe I’m missing something

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  410. I feel bad for Rose McGowan. She’s been through a lot. I think the experience has taken a toll on her but her hearts in the right place.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  411. @409 JF American Airlines mandated the vaccine a month ago. For them the government action doesn’t matter. They’d already decided to do it.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  412. @426 i read the link

    i’m referring to his and the reporter’s gung ho support for passenger vaccine mandates

    JF (e1156d)

  413. Well at least Juanita Broaddrick 2.0 is much easier on the eyes. She best avoid certain hard candies.

    urbanleftbehind (34a32e)

  414. Not a fan of Rotund Martin or his network, but this a good “He is You” callout: https://www.thewrap.com/roland-martin-calls-out-chris-christie-over-his-part-in-putting-trump-in-power/

    urbanleftbehind (34a32e)

  415. #402 Sammy – Could the writer have been talking about Variolation?Variolation was the method of inoculation first used to immunize individuals against smallpox (Variola) with material taken from a patient or a recently variolated individual, in the hope that a mild, but protective, infection would result.

    The procedure was most commonly carried out by inserting/rubbing powdered smallpox scabs or fluid from pustules into superficial scratches made in the skin. The virus was normally spread through the air, infecting first the mouth, nose, or respiratory tract, before spreading throughout the body via the lymphatic system. In contrast, infection of the skin usually led to a milder, localized infection[citation needed]—but, crucially, still induced immunity to the virus. The patient would develop pustules like those caused by naturally acquired smallpox. Eventually, after about two to four weeks,[citation needed] these symptoms would subside, indicating successful recovery and immunity.

    (In America, Cotton Mather pioneered it, and George Washington used it on the entire Continental army.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  416. #421 frosty – Has it occurred to you that an infectious disease might be different in an important way from those first three?

    If frosty is overweight, I can walk by him and it will have no effect on my health; if frosty is copying “Typhoid Rand’s” behavior, it might.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  417. #430 My apologies for messing up the quote from Wikipedia. (I assume most of you can figure out where it begins and ends.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  418. We are making progress. About half of Republicans now recognize that Donald Trump is loser.

    Republicans and Republican-leaning independents say, 63% to 37%, that Trump should be the leader of the Republican Party. But they are about evenly split over whether having the defeated former President back on the ticket in 2024 would be an advantage: 51% say that Republicans have a better chance of retaking the presidency if Trump is the nominee, with 49% saying the party would be better off with a different nominee. That’s a very different landscape from 2019, when more than three-quarters of Republicans said their party had a better shot in 2020 with Trump as their nominee than they would with a different candidate.

    As you would expect, the better educated the Republican, the more likely they are to have noticed that Trump has been bad for the Republican Party.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  419. Just a reminder to all the brainiacs out there who cling to the 9/11 = 1/6 horsestuff…

    https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2021/09/09/realclearinvestigations_jan_6-blm_comparison_database_791370.html

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  420. Jim, if you look at where Biden did much better then Hillary it was in highly populated college educated exurbs. For 2020 a college degree was one of the biggest predictors of vote.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  421. In this case, BLM & 1/6 side by side…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  422. I don’t have anything against casting couch coquettes. (Darn it!) But Harvey Weinstein is old news. Did Mrs. Newsom call up Kylie Jenner and ask if she could pat her bare baby bump? Now, that is what you need to know when deciding whether to keep your state’s governor.

    nk (1d9030)

  423. And Byron York would like a word with Dubya about his dreadful 9/11 speech…

    “Bush did not explicitly say so, but he appeared to be referencing Jan. 6. And he used the rhetorical trick of denying that there was “cultural overlap” between the 9/11 terrorists and the Jan. 6 rioters before outlining areas of such overlap. They were similar in their “disdain for pluralism,” Bush said, their “disregard for human life,” and their “determination to defile national symbols.” In these, Bush argued, not only was there cultural overlap between the two groups — they actually came from “the same foul spirit.”

    With that, Bush joined a group of commentators, mostly but not entirely on the left, who maintain that 9/11 and 1/6 are similar. And they do so in the face of the obvious, enormous differences between the two. The Sept. 11 attacks killed roughly 3,000 people, brought down New York’s tallest skyscrapers, destroyed part of the Pentagon, crashed four passenger jetliners, resulted in two wars, and changed U.S. foreign policy for decades. The Jan. 6 riot led to the natural-causes death of one Capitol Police officer, the shooting death of one rioter at the hands of police, the “acute amphetamine intoxication” death of another rioter, and the natural-causes deaths of two more. Had the 9/11 attackers survived, they would have been charged with mass murder. Most of the Jan. 6 rioters have been charged with “Parading, Demonstrating, or Picketing in a Capitol Building.” Parts of the Capitol were ransacked, but not seriously enough that Congress could not meet and finish its election certification work on the night of the riot. The riot was appalling, and the participants deserve punishment, but it was simply nothing like Sept. 11. To visualize the difference, imagine that on the night of the 9/11 attacks, there was a convention that went on as scheduled at the World Trade Center.

    The bottom line: There is simply no comparison in scale, act, motivation, or anything else between Sept. 11 and Jan. 6. And yet now, a former president suggests that those two enormously dissimilar events were actually similar, both coming from “the same foul spirit.”

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/george-w-bushs-dreadful-9-11-speech

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  424. @439. “How can 59,054,087 people be so dumb?”

    =mike-drop=

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/classic-daily-mirror-us-election-front-1421769

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  425. dustin (d6cbf9) — 9/12/2021 @ 11:38 am

    The core truth remains the same. The run-of-the-mill Trump voter or democrat or conservative wants the same general life for their family. Seriously. we want the same stuff for the most part, disagree about the nerdy bits about how to get there, and are programmed to see everybody as terrible for some reason. It’s amazing.

    Are you the same dustin that used to post as Dustin? Because that Dustin spent a bit of time posting a variety of hyperbolic insults about run-of-the-mill Trump voters. I think at various times he claimed they were irredeemably racists, stupid, treasonous, and a variety of other things.

    This

    I disagree, Time123. It would be amazing if Frosty was honest one time.

    dustin (8ba395) — 9/11/2021 @ 4:16 pm

    sounds like that Dustin. Not being able to back that up with any examples also sounds like that Dustin. He liked the drive-by insult and troll and then liked to complain about other people’s insults and accuse them of trolling.

    frosty (f27e97)

  426. 373-The day he dies will be a good day for the United States
    Thats the spirit.

    mg (8cbc69)

  427. 350- You don’t get it. I am only voting for someone worse than Trump, just like your sorry azz.

    mg (8cbc69)

  428. Trump’s gone. Back to show business. Color commentator in the Hollyfield-Belfort clown show last night. That’s why the orange creepazoid did not participate in any 9/11 memoriak events like the other presidents. He didn’t want to tire himself out. He wanted to be fresh for the show. His stench will linger through the 2022 primaries, but that’s all that’s left of him in politics.

    nk (1d9030)

  429. Kevin, wishing for Trumps death is kind of gross and not justified just because he’s a garbage person.

    It wasn’t a wish, it was an observation.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  430. Jim @431 I think there are a lot of reasons that people are reacting strongly to covid;
    it’s new,
    it’s a collective action problem,
    it’s a single thing and not a category like cancer and heart disease
    There’s good reason to believe our outcomes are poor because other countries like German, Switzerland and South Korea have had far fewer deaths and hospitalizations per capita.

    Also, people take cancer pretty seriously. Cancer isn’t infectious but there are lots of rules governing use and storage of carcinogens and huge financial penalties if expose other people to them.

    I think people are looking for a stable end point that’s better then whats happening in FL. Maybe there isn’t one and we should all get used to the idea that living to your 70’s will me much rarer in the future. Burt I’m hoping that a high level of vaccination makes Covid like a bad flu year (40K-60K dead) and not 400,000+ dead every year.

    If that’s the way it is, we’ll adjust. We’ll have more surge capacity in hospitals and we’ll get used to economic contractions from social distancing when covid cases are spiking and having fewer living grandparents. But it will be a shame if we can’t do better then that.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  431. @434 we’ve progressed from deplorables against hillary to straight up dumb people against biden

    JF (e1156d)

  432. trust the experts

    REVEALED: 26 out of the 27 Lancet scientists who trashed theory that Covid leaked from a Chinese lab have links to Wuhan researchers

    Of the 27 scientists who wrote a letter in The Lancet medical journal dismissing the possibility that Covid-19 originated from a Wuhan lab, 26 have links to its Chinese researchers, their colleagues or its benefactors, a new investigation has revealed.

    On March 7 last year, the influential journal published the letter in which the 27 scientists said they ‘strongly condemned conspiracy theories’ surrounding the origins of the coronavirus pandemic that has impacted all corners of the world.

    All debate into whether Covid-19 had man-made origins or leaked from the lab in Wuhan – the Chinese city that was ground-zero for the virus – was effectively shut down by the letter.

    However, an investigation by The Daily Telegraph newspaper into the signatories has found that 26 of the 27 had some link to the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where the leak was suspected – calling into question their impartiality.

    JF (e1156d)

  433. Jim Miller (edcec1) — 9/12/2021 @ 4:13 pm

    #421 frosty – Has it occurred to you that an infectious disease might be different in an important way from those first three?

    If frosty is overweight, I can walk by him and it will have no effect on my health; if frosty is copying “Typhoid Rand’s” behavior, it might.

    COVID isn’t an issue because it’s an infectious disease. It’s an issue because it kills people. The flu, various cold viruses, and herpes are all infectious diseases and we aren’t going to this extreme for them. So, the metric isn’t whether it’s infectious. It’s how many people does it kill.

    Has it occurred to you that you are unable to access the impact of the other three because they are simply more difficult for you to see? If a person dies from any of the causes mentioned they have a net effect on everyone. It being an infectious disease is a distinction, but it doesn’t explain why we’d tolerate things that result in fewer people when they are preventable. It being an infectious disease is a distinction, but it doesn’t make it an issue of a different kind.

    If I’ve got COVID and you walk by me you don’t automatically catch it. The odds are relatively low. If you’re vaccinated, they are even lower. But it’s very easy for you to overestimate the risk.

    If a person dies from any of the other things you may not see the effect it has on you. It’s easy to imagine that there is no cost from losing ~750k people per year to abortions. Same for heart disease and cancer. It’s also a compounding effect over time. There are far more people that we’ve lost and will lose to abortion, heart disease, and cancer over the course of your life than we will lose to COVID. Those numbers are different by at least an order of magnitude. It’s very easy for you to underestimate the effect it has on you personally. But we pay a lot as a society and individually, in costs both direct and indirect as a result of easily preventable choices people are making.

    Some costs may be harder to see. That doesn’t mean they don’t exist. If you can step away from the personal risk to you and see it as a problem at the societal level losing hundreds of thousands of lives per year should be an issue equally no matter the cause. It makes sense that dealing with all of these would be prioritized as a function of the loss of life if we’re doing that for one of them. And it seems like that’s what we’re doing with COVID.

    And we can do that using the same reasoning that we’ve applied to COVID. We’ve got safe and effective contraceptives. If we can mandate vaccines, why can’t we mandate those? That seems safer, cheaper, more effective, and less morally ambiguous than our current approach with abortion. We can have employers require a certain level of physical fitness. We can deny medical treatment to people who refuse to practice safe sex or maintain their health. All of those are arguments that have been made regarding COVID and they are just as applicable for problems that are more serious.

    I obviously don’t believe in doing any of that. But if you believe in doing it for COVID why not do it for those other things? It being an infectious disease isn’t really a reason. It’s a rationalization.

    In other words, when you say “Has it occurred to you that an infectious disease” it sounds like you’re saying “Has it occurred to you that this could impact me”. To which I say, yes it did. Those other things impact you as well.

    In other-other words, making the distinction of an infectious disease is like saying a high murder rate isn’t a big deal because you haven’t been killed.

    frosty (f27e97)

  434. Well said frosty.

    Thank you.

    NJRob (05dccd)

  435. Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/12/2021 @ 3:36 pm

    Frosty, I’m not sure what your end point is but I don’t think your proposed metric is the best or only one to use in working out policy. Maybe I’m missing something

    I didn’t say it was the best or only metric. I offered it as a metric that can be used to compare various issues in terms of lives. This is a metric that you and others have indicated is important.

    Would you propose some other metric to compare these issues?

    frosty (f27e97)

  436. If a person dies from any of the other things you may not see the effect it has on you. It’s easy to imagine that there is no cost from losing ~750k people per year to abortions. Same for heart disease and cancer. It’s also a compounding effect over time. There are far more people that we’ve lost and will lose to abortion, heart disease, and cancer over the course of your life than we will lose to COVID.

    Leaving the TX law aside, there’s little we can do to curtail abortion except around the edges, because we’re up against a couple of Supreme Court rulings.
    There’s little we can do governmentally about heart disease, because too many people make poor choices about diet and exercise. We can’t mandate 10,000 steps a day and the appropriate amount and type of food to be ingested. But even if a person has good cardio and BMI and is on paleo or vegan diet, heart disease still happens.
    With cancer, we can’t ban tobacco, but we have cut down on known carcinogens. Even so, even if a person does everything right, cancer still happens.
    Covid is different because so much of it was preventable, and cases and deaths could’ve been dramatically reduced without violating our Constitution. South Korea is a free nation with a free economy, yet their cases per million are 4% of ours, and deaths per million are 2% of ours. We could have done so much better.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  437. @452 south korea implemented mandatory contact tracing, testing and quarantines

    it publicly released private health information

    you think that aligns with our constitution

    so does demented biden and lefty democrats

    JF (e1156d)

  438. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 9/12/2021 @ 7:29 pm

    we’re up against a couple of Supreme Court rulings

    We don’t need to do anything directly with abortions. We mandate contraceptives in the same way we’re talking about mandating COVID vaccines. We can maintain a system similar to the proposed COVID passports. When someone wants to get pregnant they can file for a waiver. Women who get pregnant without a waiver are not eligible for insurance coverage or other benefits like paid leave. Men can ask to see a woman’s contraceptive passport before intercourse. At that point, all pregnancies are wanted and we’re only talking about abortions in cases of medical issues. There is no reason to run afoul of any of the SCOTUS rulings that limit restrictions on abortions. There aren’t any logical or legal inconsistencies between that and the COVID vaccine requirements.

    We can’t mandate 10,000 steps a day and the appropriate amount and type of food to be ingested.

    We don’t need to. We have OSHA create a guideline for employment. We allow companies to refuse medical insurance or employment to people who don’t maintain a healthy BMI. We allow medical providers to exclude treating these people as well. We don’t need to force anyone to do anything. We just don’t allow them to participate in the same society as the people who are doing what they are supposed to. This is also consistent with our approach to COVID.

    But even if a person has good cardio and BMI and is on paleo or vegan diet, heart disease still happens.

    Yes. Even if people get the vaccine and otherwise do everything to reduce the risk of COVID they can still get it. Those people would still be treated and they would certainly get preferred treatment ahead of anyone who didn’t maintain a healthy lifestyle. This is also consistent with our approach to COVID.

    Covid is different because so much of it was preventable

    It’s not different at all. So much of heart disease is preventable. Unplanned pregnancies are easily preventable. We can catch a lot of cancer earlier and in a more treatable stable by simply mandating more testing.

    could’ve been dramatically reduced without violating our Constitution

    Sure, but we aren’t talking about that. As Biden said, this isn’t about your freedom. What’s more interesting is that the OSHA rules, the CDC eviction moratorium, and the federal vaccine mandates are being done under existing federal regulations. Either we aren’t violating the constitution, those laws don’t cover this, or we violated our constitution a long time ago.

    We could have done so much better.

    I 100% agree. Nothing I’ve described above is inconsistent with policies promoted by the pro-mandate crowd and is largely consistent with the vaccine encouragement crowd.

    frosty (f27e97)

  439. There’s people that make the world work and there’s people who make casinos rich. Biden’s mandate is only the beginning of the end of suffering fools gladly. The next step, hopefully, will be not renewing the stimulus enhanced unemployment benefits, and no more “stimie” checks, no matter how much they cry and whine and hold their breaths till they turn blue. The last step, I hope we never get to, triaging hospital space to put the unvaccinated last in line.

    nk (1d9030)

  440. @262. Case in point- History Channel doc on ‘Desert One’ they’re airing… “noble effort,” “heroic try” by the military… “daring decision” by Jimma and his cracker staffers.

    Such sh!t spin 40 years on…

    It was an abject failure. Then and now. For some pretty basic reasons, too.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  441. Trump has been more effective at destabilizing the United States than all of Hollywood put together. Talk about a useful idiot.

    The day he dies will be a good day for the United States.

    Rest easy, Kev. Your frail ol’Joey beat him at the polls– and will beat him to the grave. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  442. Trump has been more effective at destabilizing the United States than all of Hollywood put together

    Yeah, that indian slaughterer, Green Beret-g–k zapping, war cowboy John Wayne and ol’ Clint ‘Dirty Harry/Josie Wales’ Eastwood along w/ol’ Sylvester John Rambo’ Stallone really destabilized the good ol’ USA.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  443. ‘The day he dies will be a good day for the United States.’

    “It wasn’t a wish, it was an observation.”

    You see into the future now?

    Oh Great Swammy Kev, do tell us: how do the Steelers do next season?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  444. For some pretty basic reasons, too.

    Like the pilots needed to get the president’s OK every time they flipped a switch.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  445. how do the Steelers do next season?

    Why would I care?

    And observing that Trump will be a disaster going forward does not require seeing into the future — his past is evident and I’m not the one expecting different results.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  446. frosty (f27e97) — 9/12/2021 @ 8:01 pm

    I suppose that’s a reply, frosty, and I’ll just leave it at that.

    Paul Montagu (bcd0f1)

  447. @460/461. Oh Great Swammy: celebrate failure.

    It’s the American thing to do in 2021.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  448. Like the pilots needed to get the president’s OK every time they flipped a switch.

    Like the pilots needed to get the Commander In Chief’s OK every time they flipped a switch.

    FIFY. And why you aren’t glowing in the dark as JFK had the USN by the short-and-curlies over the radiophone during the Cuban Missile Crisis– and why the USAF still managed to screw up and fly a U2 over Russia.

    “There’s always some SOB who doesn’t get the word.” – JFK, October, 1962

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  449. Trump’s gone. Back to show business. Color commentator in the Hollyfield-Belfort clown show last night. That’s why the orange creepazoid did not participate in any 9/11 memorial events like the other presidents. He didn’t want to tire himself out. He wanted to be fresh for the show. His stench will linger through the 2022 primaries, but that’s all that’s left of him in politics.

    Actually, he did go to the ‘Towers’ police precinct.

    Like the coppers and the viewers of the Holyfield-Belfort ‘clown show’ – those are his voters. The long dead killed by Bush’s incompetence rarely make it to the polls– except in Chicago. Besides, Dubya did a great job sullying himself and their memory. If only he’d read and understood that August 6, 2001 PDB…

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  450. Frosty, I don’t think a single metric is the right way to evaluate how people are assessing risk. In 446, I listed a number of things I think are informing people’s viewpoint. I think if you try to use just 1 to answer every question you’re going to wind up missing things. Mortality is important and I think fixing that would fix a lot (most) of the problem. But it’s not the only important factor.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  451. JF, I didn’t advocate we do any of those things. You can find plenty of countries who are reasonable comparisons to the US that had much better outcomes then we did to support my point. Canada for instance.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  452. Oh great swammy kev….
    lmmfaolotf.

    mg (8cbc69)

  453. You don’t need to be a swami to know that if that big pimple pops and dries up, you’ll be able to sit down again and your fever will go away too. But you do need to know something about orange butt pimples.

    nk (1d9030)

  454. How many dead in Chicago?

    mg (8cbc69)

  455. More than in Bug Tussle, I would have guessed, mg. But let’s look again, why don’t we?

    Here are the 10 states with the highest murder rate:

    Louisiana (12.4 per 100k)
    Missouri (9.8 per 100k)
    Nevada (9.1 per 100k)
    Maryland (9 per 100k)
    Arkansas (8.6 per 100k)
    Alaska (8.4 per 100k)
    Alabama (8.3 per 100k)
    Mississippi (8.2 per 100k)
    Illinois (7.8 per 100k)
    South Carolina (7.8 per 100k)

    Illinois in 9th for those of you from Rio Linda.

    And that’s the thing, isn’t it, comrades? Chicago is a world class city, and people give a sh!t what happens here.

    nk (1d9030)

  456. Da Bearz… da Bullz… Ditka…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  457. No longer Confederate, still corn-fed. The Trump Corn-federacy and the Butt Pimple Popper of 2020, a novel.

    nk (1d9030)

  458. Ok, I don’t care who you are, this right here is funny:

    (CNN)On Wednesday, the Biden administration requested that all Trump appointees appointed to boards at the nation’s military academies — a group that includes longtime Trump adviser Kellyanne Conway — resign. Conway, in a letter rejecting Biden’s request, said that his call to resign would constitute a “break from presidential norms.”

    Yes, she really said that. “A break from presidential norms.”

    nk (1d9030)

  459. “The last step, I hope we never get to, triaging hospital space to put the unvaccinated last in line.”

    Blow it out your ass, murder-boy.

    Hospital workers are already bragging on reddit about intubating and ventilating conscious and communicative patients who say they’re unvaccinated, basically radically increasing their likelihood of dying. Strongly doubt they’re failing to ‘accidentally’ overdose with sedatives either. And naturally, getting tons of upvotes from people like you.

    The day when we livestream Democrats and neocons getting thrown into MMA arenas to face justice in worldwide livestreamed 4k as firefighters and police cheer from the sidelines is fast approaching and righteously deserved.

    Colosseum Manager (8c5817)

  460. Yes, she really said that. “A break from presidential norms.”

    Well, it is and you cannot claim a “return to normalcy” while doing the abnormal. Hypocrisy on both sides here.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  461. Hospital workers are already bragging on reddit about intubating and ventilating conscious and communicative patients who say they’re unvaccinated

    This says three things:

    1. Get vaccinated.
    2. If unvaccinated, stay away from hospitals.
    3. The crazy rumormill is working overtime.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  462. The day when we livestream Democrats and neocons getting thrown into MMA arenas to face justice in worldwide livestreamed 4k as firefighters and police cheer from the sidelines is fast approaching and righteously deserved

    The mask slips.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  463. The mask slips.

    Never been more than a mask. That’s Mr. VPN, a/k/a Steppe Nomad, a/k/a hundreds of other nicks Patterico has banned him under. Ignore the thing.

    nk (1d9030)

  464. Sissies.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  465. Well, it is and you cannot claim a “return to normalcy” while doing the abnormal. Hypocrisy on both sides here.

    Maybe so, but Alternative Facts is the last person with the moral standing to complain about it, or to demand that we return to Marquess of Queensbury rules after kicking under the belt did not work out for them.

    nk (1d9030)

  466. https://mobile.twitter.com/martyrmade/status/1431018504321343489

    The period after the Afghanistan debacle subsides will be very dangerous. The humiliated regime will be looking to reassert itself, and since it lacks the credibility to act abroad, they’ll look closer to home – like the guy who gets punked at work going home to beat his wife.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  467. “This says three things:

    1. Get vaccinated.
    2. If unvaccinated, stay away from hospitals.
    3. The crazy rumormill is working overtime.”

    In other words, your position is “don’t bother thinking about the details of the murders we tolerated, the cretins deserve it.”

    “The mask slips.”

    Masks are for private executioners ashamed of the work they do. The punishment that nk’s corrupt mind demanded and you now deserve for going along with will be carried out in public, in front of approving witnesses, with bare faces.

    Colosseum HR Rep (9f388f)

  468. First up against the wall are the Internet trolls. Nobody likes them.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  469. The Covid vaccines require intra-muscular injection which poses a problem with the morbidly obese, but it’s not a new problem and solutions have been found, so the willfully unvaccinated have no reason to be resentful on that account.

    nk (1d9030)

  470. Just saying, you know.

    nk (1d9030)

  471. Mask off

    mg (f3fad7)

  472. Maybe so, but Alternative Facts is the last person with the moral standing to complain about it

    I’m more worried about what is happening now than some past actions used to justify it. Further breaking comity (and the idea that you don’t mess with sinecures is that) does not help us to heal — and Joe was all about healing during the campaign. It’s a mandate that he’s reneging on.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  473. The Covid vaccines require intra-muscular injection which poses a problem with the morbidly obese

    You would think that they would want to be first in line.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  474. 78% of those hospitalized are obese. Perhaps we should go after the actual problem instead of trying to treat the healthy.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  475. Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/13/2021 @ 2:53 am

    What I’m doing in that sequence of comments is taking the pro-mandate reasoning to its logical conclusion. It’s a method of showing the contradictions or consequences of an argument taken to its limit. A valid rebuttal would be to provide a limiting principle. You could also argue that I haven’t applied the reasoning incorrectly. So far I haven’t seen either.

    it’s new,
    it’s a collective action problem,
    it’s a single thing and not a category

    COVID isn’t a problem because it’s new. It’s a problem because it’s deadly. Also, deadly infectious diseases aren’t new. This isn’t a limiting principle. Claiming we’re only going to this extreme for this one case is simply claiming it as an exception. This is what leads to the slippery slope problem. The next time we need an exception we point to this time and claim we aren’t actually making an exception.

    I’m not sure how it being a collective action problem is relevant. The pro-mandate argument is that individuals take action for the collective good. All of the things I cited are the same situation. This aisn’t any sort of limiting principle.

    It being a single thing is both questionable and also irrelevant.

    I don’t think a single metric is the right way to evaluate how people are assessing risk

    This is a different discussion. Can you articulate any reason the pro-mandate argument can’t be applied as I’ve described? Can you give a reason other than you having a preference for the outcomes?

    What you are doing in @446 is pointing out differences. Differences aren’t always distinctions.

    frosty (f27e97)

  476. 471. …damn that Illinois Central RR

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  477. 78% of those hospitalized are obese.

    Well, “obese” isn’t well defined. My target weight has always been 165 when buffed. Obese for me starts at 168. Sadly, I am neither buffed nor 165.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  478. Also “obesity” is largely a marker for age.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  479. Frosty,

    I am not going to defend Biden’s “mandate” because I don’t think he has that power. As you point out, if he does have it, he will use it again for something else. And again and again until we all have to mow our lawns weekly.

    That does not mean I think that a vaccine mandate by a company or government entity is wrong, or even a bad idea. It may be necessary to keep customers (e.g. medical providers or in-home services). It may be necessary for critical care. I think that hospital employees who interact with patients ought to be vaccinated, along with emergency personnel and nursing home employees.

    But not by a presidential order. Even if he has some plausible lever (e.g. Medicaid payments) it is just a terrible, no good, bad idea for the president to issue decrees. We’ve been traveling down this road for a while now and we should maybe stop.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  480. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 9/12/2021 @ 1:28 pm

    Back to silver standards and solid Goldwater

    The old time Republicans were for the gold standard. The Democrats were for silver, or bimetallism, after 1896.

    They always advertise for people to buy GOLD on right wing talk radio. Very rarely is silver mentioned.

    By the way, had Hillary Clinton been an honest speculator in December, 1979, she would have bought silver, of course.

    Where do these lyrics come from, anyway?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j-8Q79U1qk

    When do they date from? 1964? It mentions Nixon. Ev and Charley ended in 1965, I think.

    It’s kind of nonsense.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  481. 485. nk (1d9030) — 9/13/2021 @ 7:54 am

    The Covid vaccines require intra-muscular injection which poses a problem with the morbidly obese,

    The problem sounds like it is that the vaccine would not work. The problem needs to be advertised. It is no use if a sufficiently trained nurse knows about that.

    What percentage of vaccinated people were not truly given the vaccine?

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  482. 78% of those hospitalized are obese. Perhaps we should go after the actual problem instead of trying to treat the healthy.

    Not according to the CDC.

    More than 900,000 adult COVID-19 hospitalizations occurred in the United States between the beginning of the pandemic and November 18, 2020. Models estimate that 271,800 (30.2%) of these hospitalizations were attributed to obesity.

    Emphasis mine. Adult obesity is a problem in the US, with 42% of the adult population in that category, but it ain’t just fat filling hospital beds from Covid. Perhaps the “actual problem” is Trumpalistas using Alternative Facts and bogus “data” to suit their political agenda.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  483. Kevin,

    Then use the more accurate body fat percentage. It should be below 20. Above 30 creates a much higher likelihood of all sorts of health problems, especially from this virus.

    So start working out.

    NJRob (447189)

  484. Paul,

    Try again. They’re claiming that the hospitalizations are attributed to COVID. So of course they’ll ignore the primary contributing factor which is people are too fat and lazy. That was increased with foolish lockdowns and welfare to not work.

    NJRob (447189)

  485. 430. Jim Miller (edcec1) — 9/12/2021 @ 3:57 pm

    #402 Sammy – Could the writer have been talking about Variolation?Variolation was the method of inoculation first used to immunize individuals against smallpox (Variola) with material taken from a patient or a recently variolated individual, in the hope that a mild, but protective, infection would result.

    No, she is a little over 70 years old now, I think.

    Shw didn’t say that people risked death from the smallpox vaccine but that it caused days of high fever. In the Twentieth century.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  486. I think the Archimedes displacement test is still the best they have, followed by the skin pinch test. For purposes of IM injection, from the article linked at 485:

    Mean subcutaneous tissue thickness at the dorsogluteal site was 34.5 mm for overweight adults, 40.2 mm for obese adults and 51.4 mm for extremely obese adults, and at the ventrogluteal site was 38.2 mm for overweight adults, 43.1 mm for obese adults and 53.8 mm for extremely obese adults.

    nk (1d9030)

  487. 495. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/13/2021 @ 8:59 am

    That does not mean I think that a vaccine mandate by a company or government entity is wrong, or even a bad idea. It may be necessary to keep customers (e.g. medical providers or in-home services). It may be necessary for critical care. I think that hospital employees who interact with patients ought to be vaccinated, along with emergency personnel and nursing home employees.

    But you pay a price. People will quit their jobs rather than take the vaccine. Around 10%. This is something Biden;s people can’t get their heads around.

    Some people will seek a religious objection related to the idea that they are benefiting from abortion)

    it is just a terrible, no good, bad idea for the president to issue decrees. We’ve been traveling down this road for a while now and we should maybe stop.

    It could be applied to something not as risk free as the Covid vaccines.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  488. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 9/13/2021 @ 9:06 am

    The difference is right in your quote.

    78% of those hospitalized are obese

    vs

    Models estimate that 271,800 (30.2%) of these hospitalizations were attributed to obesity

    I’m not suggesting we target the obese. When the bear comes after me I need someone to outrun.

    But I’m not sure the second stat invalidates the first. We’d need to dig into those models and the estimates. It’s entirely possible they create categories for attribution that are cross-linked with obesity. It’s also possible that there are multiple causes and but for the obesity, they may not have needed to be hospitalized.

    frosty (f27e97)

  489. I think the weight/height ratio BMI is basically People Magazine level “science”. It would have labeled Arnold Schwarzenegger at the peak of his bodybuilding career more obese than Jackie Gleason.

    nk (1d9030)

  490. 448. JF (e1156d) — 9/12/2021 @ 5:59 pm

    the Wuhan Institute of Virology, where the leak was suspected

    “The” leak??

    I suspect there were two or more separate leaks, of not quite identical versions of the virus, the last one when the Wuhan Center for Disease Control and Prevention moved to a new address on December 2, 2019, near the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market seafood market, falsely described as a wet market: even if it had a few stalls containing animals that breathed air – but not the right ones.

    Huanan means South China. This is a word like “national” it doesn’t mean it operates all across south China.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  491. The answer was there – under your nose – all along, Paul…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  492. 452. Paul Montagu (5de684) — 9/12/2021 @ 7:29 pm

    Leaving the TX law aside, there’s little we can do to curtail abortion except around the edges, because we’re up against a couple of Supreme Court rulings.

    The Texas law provides a clever way around Supreme Court rulings about anything

    A similar law could be used to prohibit anything

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  493. 506… look who’s going all ad homina homina

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  494. Contact tracing may still be working in South Korea bt the Delta variant has outrun it in Southeast Asia, in Vietnam.

    There are several ways we could have done better than we did. It is still not going to kill so many people that it could cause a substantially fewer number of people not to live into their 70s.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  495. I didn’t know this:

    But with the Carter presidency struggling with soaring inflation and later the protracted Iranian hostage crisis, Mr. Stevenson, in 1979, toyed again with seeking the Democratic nomination, in 1980, saying he was disappointed with Mr. Carter’s performance and by the caliber of the president’s potential Democratic challengers. He decided not to run for another Senate term, clearing the way for a campaign.

    But the effort fizzled. He taped television spots to talk about issues and said he would be open to a draft by the national convention. But he refused to enter the Democratic primaries.

    “It’s not the kind of contest I could win,” he told United Press International months before the primaries began. “The chemistry is all wrong, down to and including the cosmetics. It just doesn’t fit.”

    It was a remarkable concession, not only because it virtually ruled out his own presidential possibilities, but also because of its dead-on self-assessment: The son was not the father, and never would be.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  496. They’re claiming that the hospitalizations are attributed to COVID. So of course they’ll ignore the primary contributing factor which is people are too fat and lazy.

    No, the hospitalizations are due to COVID since they would not have happened otherwise. These weren’t people hospitalized due to obesity who later caught COVID.

    Following your logic, none of the people admitted to hospital died of COVID, they died of obesity, diabetes, COPD and old age when in fact few of they would have died in the same period without COVID.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  497. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/13/2021 @ 8:59 am

    I am not going to defend Biden’s “mandate” because I don’t think he has that power.

    That does not mean I think that a vaccine mandate by a company or government entity is wrong

    But not by a presidential order

    I don’t think a company voluntarily choosing to enforce a mandate gets around the problem I’m trying to illustrate.

    If a company has a legal right to demand everyone be vaccinated why don’t they have a legal right to require the other things I’ve mentioned? And for what’s it worth we’re now getting into an area where I’m probably not going to disagree with you. I’m probably not going to disagree to such a degree that you’d start disagreeing with me. I think companies should have wide latitude in employment decisions.

    The problem is the needle you are trying to thread has no consistent foundation. We’re basically picking and choosing based on the outcomes we think we like.

    frosty (f27e97)

  498. Take off the clown nose Paul.

    You don’t even read your own links, Rob.
    You said “78% of those hospitalized are obese”. The MSNBC link said 50%. The CDC link that I used reference this study.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  499. Kevin

    yes, that’s exactly correct. COVID was a factor. It wasn’t the cause. An unhealthy life was the cause. Old age, a weakened immune system was the cause.

    It’s the same reason why 95% of the deaths from the lab virus are over 50.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  500. But I’m not sure the second stat invalidates the first.

    It kind of does, frosty. Here is some of the verbiage from their study.

    As of November 18, 2020, an estimated 906,849 COVID‐19 hospitalizations occurred in US adults. Of these, an estimated 20.5% (95% uncertainty interval [UIs], 18.9–22.1) of COVID‐19 hospitalizations were attributable to diabetes mellitus, 30.2% (UI, 28.2–32.3) to total obesity (body mass index ≥30 kg/m2), 26.2% (UI, 24.3–28.3) to hypertension, and 11.7% (UI, 9.5–14.1) to heart failure. Considered jointly, 63.5% (UI, 61.6–65.4) or 575 419 (UI, 559 072–593 412) of COVID‐19 hospitalizations were attributable to these 4 conditions. Large differences were seen in proportions of cardiometabolic risk–attributable COVID‐19 hospitalizations by age and race/ethnicity, with smaller differences by sex.

    These were CV19 hospitalizations that noted the underlying conditions of those hospitalized. Adding the four conditions together, comes to 88.6%, but 63.5% of the patients were so afflicted, meaning that a percentage had more than one condition, which is to be expected.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  501. yes, that’s exactly correct. COVID was a factor. It wasn’t the cause.

    That’s not what I said and you know it. A “cause” is what leads to the result and few of these people would have died then had they not had Covid. So, they died due to Covid. Those other things were “contributiong factors” but did NOT cause death. Covid did.

    You argument is like saying: “Sure, they died when the truck broadsided their car, but if they hadn’t been obese they could have gotten out before the flames started. So, their obesity killed them. The accident was just a contributing factor”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  502. @510 lol, Col

    JF (e1156d)

  503. “Sure, they died when the truck broadsided their car, but if they hadn’t been obese they could have gotten out before the flames started.”

    Oh… the Humanity Obesity!

    Colonel Haiku (9a8c5f)

  504. I think companies should have wide latitude in employment decisions.

    Up to a point and I think we’d disagree on the point.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  505. @520:

    Talking about clown noses….

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  506. “Sizzle… crackle… POP!!!

    Oh, teh obesity!”

    Colonel Haiku (9a8c5f)

  507. 522… lighten up, pops…

    Colonel Haiku (9a8c5f)

  508. A lobbying group that was destroyed for a variety of reasons:

    https://www.politico.com/states/new-york/albany/story/2018/02/05/families-for-excellent-schools-planning-to-close-following-ceos-firing-235707

    It was starved for funds after it lost a Massachusetts referendum and its CEO was implicated in sexual harassment, and de Blasio had given in on some points.

    I had stumbled up this in a New York Oist editorial in the newspaper of Sunday, May 29, 2016 which somebody found and gave to me knowing I’d be interested in the paper: It’s over 5 years old. One thing I found was this:

    https://nypost.com/2016/05/28/this-lawsuit-should-inspire-de-blasio-to-get-serious-about-school-violence

    More victims of school violence came forward last week to join the civil-rights federal lawsuit against the city Department of Education. This is a movement that deserves to grow.

    Parents backed by Families for Excellent Schools first filed the suit in March. They allege that violence deprives black and Hispanic public-school students of their right to a sound, basic education — and that DOE refuses to confront the problem.

    Using city data for the 2014-2015 school year, the amended complaint highlights the disparate impact that school violence has on children of color and also on special-needs kids.

    School districts where the black and Hispanic population is at least 90 percent saw an average of twice as many violent incidents as other districts. And special-needs students experience a higher rate of violent incidents.

    This month, the Alliance for Quality Education and other “civil rights” organizations called on FES to end its ads that denounce the school-violence epidemic. The campaign, the groups say, promotes “fear-mongering” and “undermine(s) racial justice.”

    Their audacity is astounding — or would be, if these groups weren’t all in the pocket of the teachers union.

    But where are traditional civil-rights organizations? The Justice Department’s Civil Rights Division? Where, for that matter, does state Attorney General Eric Schneiderman stand when it comes to school violence?

    Justice has seen fit to weigh in on transgender access to public-school bathrooms and locker rooms. Isn’t actual violence against minority kids at least as important?

    The silence of the NAACP and similar groups, meanwhile, suggests the old civil-rights establishment has calcified into just another arm of the national Democratic Party — which relies too much on teachers unions to rock the boat just because poor black, Hispanic and special-needs kids are suffering injustice.

    Happily, FES is stepping up on behalf of these children.

    We have no idea how the case will turn out. But it shouldn’t take a court fight to make the progressives of Team de Blasio get serious about restoring order, discipline and safety to city schools.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  509. 518. I think the cause” of death is what’s new, and Covid and the accident are both new factors.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  510. @491 Frosty,

    What I’m doing in that sequence of comments is taking the pro-mandate reasoning to its logical conclusion.

    No, you’re taking one part of the argument, and reducing it to the absurd while ignoring the rest.

    Let me try to articulate my POV again.

    Covid is a deadly and highly contagious disease whose transmission and harm can be greatly reduced through a simple, low cost and safe vaccination. The impact of the disease goes beyond the individual. Results on hospital utilization and fatalities from FL, TX, and LA, show that voluntary vaccinations are insufficient to keep those impacts in check. Because of this it’s in the public interest for government-as-employer to mandate vacations for employees and encourage other employers to do the same. Using the DOL to order all businesses to do likewise is an expansion of executive power that should be curtailed.

    Time123 (6711df)

  511. @496. Except it’s not.

    Can’t call the game if you don’t know the players, Sammy.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  512. I’m telling you it’s mostly nonsense. It’as intended as satire but a lot of it is just nonse.

    How could they get wrong that the Republicans in 1910, and later were for the good standard?

    Yes it was fiat money after 1933, but before that Democrats had wanted silver.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  513. Gold standard/

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  514. Covid-19 Deaths in Delta Surge Trend Younger in U.S.
    …….

    ……High vaccination rates among the elderly, who are more vulnerable to severe Covid-19 outcomes, are restraining the overall increase in deaths, some researchers say. The change is shifting a larger share of deaths to younger populations with lower vaccination rates, underscoring the need to get more people inoculated to curb the pandemic, they say.

    The seven-day average for newly reported Covid-19 deaths each day recently eclipsed 1,600, up from an average that briefly moved below 220 a day in early July. With roughly 660,000 known Covid-19 deaths to date, the U.S. is on track to soon top the estimated 675,000 deaths that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has linked to the 1918-19 flu pandemic.

    Deaths have been concentrated among the unvaccinated, federal data show. The CDC released studies on Friday showing that unvaccinated Americans were 4.6 times as likely to be infected, 10 times as likely to be hospitalized and 11 times as likely to die.
    ……..
    Age is a major risk factor for people with Covid-19. People in their 30s are four times as likely to die from infections as people ages 18 to 29, according to the CDC. For people ages 75 to 84, the risk of death is 220 times as high.

    Older Americans still account for the most Covid-19 deaths, but their higher vaccination rates have helped hold down the numbers. About 54% of the overall U.S. population and 63% of eligible people ages 12 and above are fully vaccinated, while the average among nursing homes is 84% for their residents, federal data show.
    ……..
    ……..CDC data continue to show that, compared with non-Hispanic whites, Black and Hispanic people face almost three times the risk of hospitalization and more than twice the risk of death. The rates among Native Americans are even higher. Rates among Asian people are comparable to those of non-Hispanic whites. The disparities stem from factors including pre-existing health conditions, access to healthcare and occupational exposure, public-health experts say.
    …….
    …….[B]ecause deaths tend to lag three to five weeks behind cases, the death toll may yet grow even as new cases are leveling off. The concentration of those fatalities among unvaccinated people demonstrates how important the shots are to ending the pandemic, said Jodie Guest, vice chair of the epidemiology department at Emory University’s Rollins School of Public Health.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  515. Time @527, I’m with you. The private-sector > 100-employee mandate was unwise and will likely fail….because OSHA must show grave circumstances. This is tough while exempting smaller businesses and acknowledging that the vaccine is already free and conveniently available. I think the Courts will find the limiting principle….and Biden is trying to use vaccine-culture wars to distract from the Afghanistan debacle. Again, the federal government has no general police power.

    Too vaccine mandates are not exactly novel….the military regularly requires it for overseas duty….as do K-12 schools for attendance….and with some medical and religious exemptions, the civil liberty cost is not excessively high…..as say a contraceptive mandate would be to reduce the number of abortions….or a calorie mandate to reduce the number of obese. Both are impractical to enforce, and on their face would appear to be wildly over-inclusive and not narrowly tailored. The federal government has no general power to mandate anything for everyone….and mandating vaccines for federal employees doesn’t exactly suggest it can….

    Still, we want Americans to…well….act like Americans….and do their part…where possible. If we can limit the outbreak through masks and vaccinations….and ICUs are then not stressed….why not do it? As you say….safe….and free.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  516. AJ,

    Still, we want Americans to…well….act like Americans….and do their part…where possible. If we can limit the outbreak through masks and vaccinations….and ICUs are then not stressed….why not do it? As you say….safe….and free.

    I listened to Tim Carney on a podcast last week. His argument was that we have a patriotic duty to take what steps we can to help end the pandemic. I’m not sure I found that completely persuasive, but it was an interesting viewpoint from one part of the traditional conservative framework.

    Time123 (a66326)

  517. All that moisture facilitates a corrosive effect on the soul, I reckon…

    https://mynorthwest.com/3141211/rantz-high-school-cancels-9-11-tribute-says-it-could-offend-some-students/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  518. Time123 (6711df) — 9/13/2021 @ 10:52 am

    Just to clarify; your contention is that for a deadly and highly contagious disease businesses can take steps to reduce the transmission. But those steps can only be taken for a deadly and highly contagious disease and they are limited to reducing the impact of the disease. Those steps are not available to deal with a deadly issue that is not contagious even if they are simple, low cost and safe even if the impact of those issues go beyond the individual.

    Is that a fair version of your POV? If that is fair why is this limited to infectious diseases?

    frosty (f27e97)

  519. Worldwide, in the last week, COVID cases have fallen 15 percent, and deaths from COVID 10 percent.

    (I understand, of course that Worldometers is just adding up the numbers it receives from national governments, some of which are incompetent, dishonest, or both. However, I am willing to assume that the total incompetence and dishonesty are constant enough so that gross comparisons can be made from week to week. In other words, we can see, tentatively, trends, even though the totals are likely to be off by large amounts.

    It is like having a yardstick that is inches short. You can still use it to measure whether one board is longer than another.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  520. We are 45th highest among nations in percent vaccinated, behind wealthy powerhouses such as Bhutan, Mongolia, and Cambodia. (But ahead of Slovenia, Kazakhstan, and Rwanda.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  521. Aj, looks like he wrote a whole column on it. You might like it. I’m not saying I agree completely, but it’s got me thinking.

    There’s a much stronger argument that you ought to get vaccinated. It’s not based on utilitarian “greatest good for the greatest number” moral thinking. Rather, it is based on the concepts of duty and risk.

    Last night, I met a father. As we spoke about vaccines, I told him I thought he should get vaccinated. He first asked whether I thought he posed a threat to me. I said, “No, because while my vaccination doesn’t guarantee I won’t get sick from an infected person, it provides incredibly strong protection against serious illness.”

    This other dad’s duty is not to me, the guy who talks to him at a cookout. His duty is primarily to his wife and kids, and secondarily to his employer and to his community.

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/risk-and-duty-a-conservative-argument-for-getting-vaccinated

    Time123 (54e6d2)

  522. 6 Kentucky counties are in the top 10 nationwide for rate of COVID-19 infection

    Kentucky has six counties among the top 10 nationwide with the highest rates of COVID-19 over the past week, with Eastern Kentucky’s Perry County ranked first, according to a New York Times data base updated Monday.

    Clay County, home to Kentucky Senate President Robert Stivers, R-Manchester, ranked third, according to data the Times compiled from state, local and federal health sources.

    Tennessee had three counties listed in the top 10.
    …….
    Oklahoma had one county included.
    …….
    On Monday, state data gathered by the Washington Post showed Kentucky had the highest rate of hospitalization of COVID-19 patients across the nation, followed by Alabama, Georgia, Florida and West Virginia.
    …….
    The county rankings follow a special legislative session in Kentucky that ended Thursday with lawmakers enacting a number of measures to address the state’s COVID-19 crisis that included banning statewide mask mandates, including in public schools.
    ……..
    As of Friday, Kentucky had reported 620,356 COVID-19 cases and 8,003 deaths and has been posting record numbers of hospitalizations with growing numbers of patients in intensive care or on ventilators.

    Kentucky ranked third overall among states in rates of new COVID-19 infection, with Tennessee first and West Virginia, second.
    ……..
    Related:

    COVID-19 has shut down at least one-fifth of Kentucky school districts.

    Since the Republican legislature has taken ownership of managing the pandemic, these numbers should change in no time.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  523. Frosty, I think the amount of intrusion and mitigation is proportional to the total impact of the issue.

    I think a bad flu season justifies paying public funds for a large public outreach. Covid justifies the employer mandate at this point.. Airborne AIDS would justify even more intrusive measures.

    Contagious diseases deserve special consideration because your risk of getting the disease is dependent on the actions and behaviors of others. Contrast that with sexually transmitted diseases where your risk is highly controlled by your choices.

    I don’t think intrusive measures are justified for private health issues.

    Also, and this just occurred to me, my employer gives me money every year in my HSA. To get the full amount I need to get a physical, take a short class on nutrition, affirm i don’t smoke, and take part in 3 exercise classes / activities. This year it’s all on the honor system but in previous years I had to put in some details and get a from from my doctor. So it looks like employers are fining employees to address some of the general health issues.

    Time123 (21b665)

  524. #534 Don’t pass this on, Colonel, but it has been an exceptionally dry summer here in the Seattle area. Enough so that many of us are hoping for our first serious rain this coming weekend. (In general the area gets little rain in July and August, and the total rainfall here is less than in cities such as Philadelphia. Winters can be miserable — if you don’t regularly get up into the mountains to play in the snow.)

    But as to the main question, Eastlake officials have insulted the Seattle high school, Rainier Beach. I expect the principal at Rainier Beach to ask for satisfaction in a duel, perhaps water balloons at ten paces.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  525. You may want some rain, Jim, but not me, but I would settle for more clouds. There’s been way too much sunshine this summer. Too bright.
    Sahalee HS and Rainier Beach are two different worlds.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  526. Time123 (21b665) — 9/13/2021 @ 1:45 pm

    I think the amount of intrusion and mitigation is proportional to the total impact of the issue

    This isn’t unreasonable but it doesn’t make sense against your other comments unless you meant to say “total impact of the issue on me”. There are other issues with higher total impact than COVID that you are not recommending intrusive mitigation efforts for.

    Contagious diseases deserve special consideration because your risk of getting the disease is dependent on the actions and behaviors of others. Contrast that with sexually transmitted diseases where your risk is highly controlled by your choices.

    I’m not trying to put words in your mouth but this seems like an even clearer example that what you are saying is the amount of intrusion and mitigation is proportional to the risk to you.

    Both of the examples you give are consistent with that as well. That isn’t unreasonable.

    I don’t think intrusive measures are justified for private health issues.

    Why? If the intrusion and mitigation are proportional to the total impact why does it matter that it’s a private health issue? Is this still part of your idea that a “private” health issue doesn’t have an impact on other people?

    frosty (f27e97)

  527. @529. Except it’s not. Get w/t program, Sammy and bone up on Goldwater’s conservatism.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  528. United States Secretary of State:

    [ ] Antony Blinken

    [ ] Mr. Bean

    [ ] Maxwell Smart

    Choose.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  529. Time123 (54e6d2) — 9/13/2021 @ 1:20 pm

    There’s a much stronger argument that you ought to get vaccinated. It’s not based on utilitarian “greatest good for the greatest number” moral thinking. Rather, it is based on the concepts of duty and risk.

    I do think there is a good duty and risk argument. And if someone asked me for personal advice to them I’d most likely give it in those terms.

    This other dad’s duty is not to me, the guy who talks to him at a cookout. His duty is primarily to his wife and kids, and secondarily to his employer and to his community.

    Presumably, the author isn’t part of this dad’s community? That little flaw aside there is a limit to this argument. If you’re telling dads generally what their duty is you’re basically making a utilitarian “greatest good for the greatest number” in disguise.

    frosty (f27e97)

  530. Frosty, Re-wording based on your feedback

    I think the amount of intrusion and mitigation is proportional to the total impact of the issue on the public and the effectiveness of the action.

    I think a bad flu season justifies paying public funds for a large public outreach. Covid justifies the employer mandate at this point.. Airborne AIDS would justify even more intrusive measures.

    Contagious diseases deserve special consideration because the risk of getting the disease is dependent on the actions and behaviors of others. Contrast that with sexually transmitted diseases where the risk is highly controlled by individual choices.

    I don’t think intrusive measures are justified for private health issues. Privacy and bodily autonomy are important rights and values but are limited by their impact on others.

    Added a clause to the first sentence to take into account the effectiveness of the desired action.

    Time123 (21b665)

  531. 545. [√ ] Maxwell Smart, because he was always successful.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  532. Maxwell Smart, because he was always successful.

    Annnnd loving it!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  533. @550. OTOH there are 13 dead who’d swear he-‘missed it byyyy that much.’

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  534. Chicago’s Resurrection Medical Center resists pressure to provide unauthorized ivermectin treatment for COVID-19
    …….
    Spokesperson Tim Nelson said Amita Health Resurrection Medical Center Chicago has received hundreds of phone calls and emails related to the patient’s care after word of her hospitalization spread on the Telegram social media platform.
    …….
    An online flyer says the woman is suffering from “COVID pneumonia” and that Resurrection would not allow her to receive ivermectin, a medication typically used to treat diseases caused by parasitic worms.
    …….
    The social channels of the Resurrection patient show a strong attachment to the QAnon conspiracy theory and a disdain for masking, vaccines and other mainstream approaches to avoiding COVID-19.
    …….
    Update:

    Veronica Wolski, Chicago woman at the center of ivermectin firestorm, dies of pneumonia due to COVID-19 infection, officials say
    ……..
    Over the weekend, some of Wolski’s supporters tried to get the hospital to discharge her. A video posted Sunday night to the Telegram channel of right-wing attorney Lin Wood shows him demanding over the phone that the hospital release Wolski to a person holding her medical power of attorney.

    “There’s an ambulance waiting for her outside, there’s a medical doctor waiting for her to treat her,” he said. “If you do not release her, you’re going to be guilty of murder. Do you understand what murder is?”
    ………
    Wolski was well-known for her political activism. She gained attention in 2016 by standing on a pedestrian bridge over the Kennedy Expressway with banners showing support for presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, but then switched her allegiance to the QAnon conspiracy theory.
    ……..


    I guess Bernie wasn’t crazy enough for her.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  535. “This is not intelligence. This is information analysis assessment.” – SoS Antony Blinken, 9/13/21

    OMG =head-smack= =bitch-slap= : swamp gas.

    Strike a match… fire him.

    Now.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  536. Reagan could have said this about the cellar dweller.

    Fidel Castro had just started one of his long, boring speeches when an older man in the crowd was heard saying, “Peanuts. Popcorn. Cracker Jack.”

    Castro didn’t break his stride but a few minutes later, a second voice was heard but with the same message, “Peanuts. Popcorn. Cracker Jack.” This time the Bearded One seemed momentarily perturbed, probably wondering why the secret police hadn’t already scooped up the disrespectful cur. But he continued the speech.

    A few minutes later, yet another voice chimed, “Peanuts. Popcorn. Cracker Jack.”

    That did it. The incensed Castro screams out, “The next person I hear say that — well, I will personally kick his ass all the way to Miami Beach!”

    At which the whole crowd erupted, “Peanuts! Popcorn! Cracker Jack!”
    6

    mg (8cbc69)

  537. DCSCA @544

    529. Except it’s not. Get w/t program, Sammy and bone up on Goldwater’s conservatism.

    1964 was many years since they ad talked about the gold standard and I realize I don;t really know what Goldwater said about sound money. Maybe he was in favor of bimetallism, which was Wiliam Jennings Bran’s position

    I found this reference:

    https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-pilot/news/opinion/tn-dpt-1031-gray-20101029-story.html

    I still remember my parents commenting during the 1964 presidential election about the silliness of Barry Goldwater’s recommending that we go back on the silver and gold standard for our nation’s monetary system.

    But you can;t use both silver and gold, because silver and gold don’t maintain the same ratio of one’s value against the other over time.

    You can be on either silver or gold, but not both at the same time.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  538. All of us should be at least mildly pleased by this Max Boot column:

    Twenty years after the worst terrorist attack in history, there hasn’t been “another 9/11.” By one count, 107 people have been killed in jihadist attacks in the United States since Sept. 11, 2001, and nearly half of those were in one attack — the 2016 Orlando nightclub shooting. Any deaths are tragic, but more Americans are dying of covid-19 every two hours than died of Islamist terrorism in the United States during the past 20 years.

    You would think this counterterrorism success would be celebrated. Instead, on the 20th anniversary of 9/11, the “global war on terror” — as it was once called — is widely reviled.
    . . .
    But most of the excesses of the war on terrorism were curbed during President George W. Bush’s second term and President Barack Obama’s first. What was left was a more modest and humane counterterrorism policy — designed to reduce, not eliminate, the threat — that commanded bipartisan support.

    Our allies have had many counterterrorism successes, too. For example:

    A total of 31 late-stage terror plots have been foiled in the UK in the past four years, the head of MI5 has said.

    There is, of course, the paradoxical result that, in many of our successes against terrorists, nothing happens. Publicly. And, since the war on terror is, above all, an intelligence war, we often need to protect secrets and sources by keeping our successes secret.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  539. #555 Sammy – Since we are on the subject, I’ll add that a sort of “Gresham’s Law” often applies to comment sections like this one; bad comments tend to drive out good ones.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  540. https://www.dailywire.com/news/the-numbers-are-in-polling-on-vaccine-mandate-very-bad-news-for-biden

    At least most people have common sense. Democrats excluded of course.

    NJRob (162a72)

  541. Never forget! Never forgive!

    https://americandigest.org/the-wound/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  542. All of us should be at least mildly pleased by this Max Boot column:

    Max always was a master at begging the question.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  543. “This is not intelligence. This is information analysis assessment.” – SoS Antony Blinken, 9/13/21

    It’s pretty disgusting how the political/bureaucratic class has turned Orwellian euphemisms into a rhetorical habit.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  544. Veronica Wolski, Chicago woman at the center of ivermectin firestorm, dies of pneumonia due to COVID-19 infection, officials say

    Interesting, because keeping a patient on a ventilator for too long can cause pneumonia, too. And the data have shown for months that putting COVID patients on vents is basically a death sentence.

    Sounds like the hospital staff killed her out of spite for not being vaccinated, then lied and claimed it was COVID that killed her.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  545. #562 FWO – IANAL, but I would suggest you get some advice from one before posting accusations like that. We don’t want to cause problems for our gracious host.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  546. “Leave no man behind was our thing. Abandoning people should be f**king unconscionable. It is against the fundamental moral basis of who we are, but not to these f**kers. But they certainly can’t let the public focus on that.”

    —- Larry Correia

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  547. “Toothless Tyranny”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nox8BydYPHs

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  548. Veronica Wolski story without subscription wall.

    Does hypothyroidism cause psychological dysfunction? Yes, yes, it does. But what’s Lin Wood’s excuse?

    nk (1d9030)

  549. #562 FWO – IANAL, but I would suggest you get some advice from one before posting accusations like that. We don’t want to cause problems for our gracious host.

    Jim Miller (edcec1) — 9/13/2021 @ 7:51 pm

    They can delete it if they want, but we’ve had commenters here say that unvaccinated people should be sprayed with DDT, and that hospitals shouldn’t treat them at all. I’d say eliminationist rhetoric is far more problematic than noting that hospitals are committing malpractice by shoving a pipe down COVID patients’ throats, when the data has shown for a year and a half now that doing so increases their risk of dying.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  550. 556… I’d be extremely pleased ecstatic if ever given an opportunity to launch my size 14 Tony Lama up Max’s exhaust port.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  551. Just to clarify for you city slickers, Tony Lama is a brand of boot.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  552. lol…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  553. Jim Miller @ 563. Nutjob Lin Wood accused the hospital of murder as well. It seems to be trending among QAnonutjobbers. But I didn’t know FWO was one, too. I thought he was just another waste-of-bandwidth, faux outrage troll.

    nk (1d9030)

  554. Jim Miller @ 563. Nutjob Lin Wood accused the hospital of murder as well. It seems to be trending among QAnonutjobbers. But I didn’t know FWO was one, too. I thought he was just another waste-of-bandwidth, faux outrage troll.

    nk (1d9030) — 9/13/2021 @ 8:18 pm

    You’re the one who said people who hadn’t gotten COVID shots should be sprayed with DDT, so you’re hardly one to be self-righteous about anything, simp.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  555. You’re lying, FWO. I did not say people who hadn’t gotten COVID shots should be sprayed with DDT. I said we cannot spray them with DDT.

    nk (1d9030)

  556. Did you expect any less, FWO?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  557. And that’s what it means to feed a troll. Wasting your time refuting their lies about what you said. Sorry, FWO, the lunch counter is now closed to you from here on.

    nk (1d9030)

  558. You’re lying, FWO. I did not say people who hadn’t gotten COVID shots should be sprayed with DDT. I said we cannot spray them with DDT.

    But DDT might be a cure! I read it on the Internet; they couldn’t post it if it wasn’t true!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  559. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/13/2021 @ 3:17 pm

    An online flyer says the woman is suffering from “COVID pneumonia” and that Resurrection would not allow her to receive ivermectin, a medication typically used to treat diseases caused by parasitic worms.

    They stopped believing in the placebo effect?

    It might be that they don’t want to give any unprescribed medications.

    But this comes across, the way it is told, that they want to exert authority. They will not give ivermectin any more credibility if they let her have it. People don;t have that kind of uncritical faith in dictors, They don;t need to worry. And ivermectin is not merely for parasitic worms. And they themselves almost certainly use many things off label. The main problem with ivermectin is that it doesn’t do enough, and is not too useful in an advanced case. Monoclonal antibodies are better but they probably don’t give that either in serious hospitalized cases. They probably didn’t try enough of it in clinical trials – also by that time the body often has a strong immune response – or it does not which is worse.

    The hospital should not act like it was run by religious fanatics. You;re not going to argue her out of it.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  560. Thousands of Americans left behind in Afghanistan by your guy worse than Trump.
    Anyone who voted for worse than Trump should be soaked in honey, cause they be sweet.

    mg (8cbc69)

  561. Not thousands. Most Americansleft behind on Afghanistan were of Afghan origin and had either come to vidit family or wer living there. Most who rejected assistance in leavingeither have medical issues or don’t want to abandon family members (and think the Taliban will not kill tem or arrest them) Some were undecided.

    It was Afghans who had been promised they would be taken who ot abandoned.

    Now all flights out of Afghanistan have been stopped because afew people had measles. Measles exists in many countries in the world.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  562. DCSCA @553:

    “This is not intelligence. This is information analysis assessment.” – SoS Antony Blinken, 9/13/21

    I think that Blinken saying the failure to predict a Taliban takeover before the U.S. military left was not an intelligence failure, which would be a fair enough statement.

    Blinken said, I know, that nobody predicted the Taliban would take over before the U.S. military left. (I have said that constitutes a failure to understand that when something is perceived as inevitable, it becomes imminent, and that is true of corporate bankruptcies)

    When Blinken said that he made President Biden out to be a liar. I doubt any of the members of that House committee picked up on it.

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/08/31/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-end-of-the-war-in-afghanistan

    That assumption — that the Afghan government would be able to hold on for a period of time beyond military drawdown — turned out not to be accurate.

    But I still instructed our national security team to prepare for every eventuality — even that one. And that’s what we did.

    They planned for something which nobody thought could happen? Maybe.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  563. You’re lying, FWO. I did not say people who hadn’t gotten COVID shots should be sprayed with DDT. I said we cannot spray them with DDT.

    You said they were vermin (in fact, you were quite explicit about it) and should be, but the only reason “we” couldn’t do it is because there would be consequences for it. And of course, when called out on it, you tried to deflect.

    And that’s what it means to feed a troll. Wasting your time refuting their lies about what you said. Sorry, FWO, the lunch counter is now closed to you from here on.

    nk (1d9030) — 9/13/2021 @ 8:55 pm

    Considering what you serve up would likely be loaded with poison if you thought you could get away with it, you’re really doing me a favor there.

    But DDT might be a cure! I read it on the Internet; they couldn’t post it if it wasn’t true!

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/13/2021 @ 10:21 pm

    Sort of like hospitals in Oklahoma turning away gunshot victims–“I heard it on the news, they wouldn’t post it if it wasn’t true!”

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  564. I remember that exchange. NK was being obnoxious and rude and I thought his comments were out of line and that he should have apologized

    But I also think FWO’s comments here are out of line.

    So since you’re both being like this I guess you deserve each other. .

    Time123 (eb65d0)

  565. nk (1d9030) — 9/13/2021 @ 8:55 pm

    RACIST! [iykwim, aityd]

    on a serious note, I feel like I am one of the few people who understand all of nk’s comments, and from where they come. A voice in the desert, indeed.

    felipe (484255)

  566. Bah!

    on a serious note, I [sometimes] feel…

    felipe (484255)

  567. Felipe I think I get NK. But that doesn’t mean his comments can’t be offensive.

    Time123 (eb65d0)

  568. So since you’re both being like this I guess you deserve each other. .
    Time123 (eb65d0) — 9/14/2021 @ 4:24 am

    Words of wisdom.

    We all deserve each other; [and now channeling DCSCA] until we don’t.

    felipe (484255)

  569. Time123 (eb65d0) — 9/14/2021 @ 4:32 am

    Good heavens, I neither defend nor attack anyone, I merely understand all of nk’s comments (and from where they come), all the time – until I don’t (snorffle).

    felipe (484255)

  570. Where are my manners? Good morning, Time, and everyone else! This is the day the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad!

    felipe (484255)

  571. The problem is, felipe, that the Dominion machines sometimes alter my comments so I write one thing, some people read another thing, and other people, still, read a third thing.

    nk (1d9030)

  572. I know Resurrection Hospital intimately. It’s in my neighborhood. I have been treated there. Both of my parents were treated there. I have friend and relatives who work there. It is the Provincial Home of the Sisters of the Resurrection. So I feel even less obligation than usual to suffer QAnonscum gladly.

    nk (1d9030)

  573. 581. That is generally known, although the CDC and others make themselves ignorant. What’s more, the general medical advice is not to get vaccinated within 90 days of an infection (although that time period may be too long)

    Natural immunity can be distinguished from that conferred by the vaccine, because the vaccine creates a more limited set of antibodies (on the other hand because the vaccine limits itself to immunizing people against an essential part of the virus and without it Covid would not be Covid, it is much harder to imagine any mutation that could get around the immunity. The spike protein contains what infects the cells plus a bit more.

    Natural immunity is stronger than that conferred by the vaccine – no breakthrough hospitalizations – but not would not considered a good idea to plan in advance to be immunized that way!

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

    This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  574. Hey Time123, is this one of those concern trolls you were talking about the other day?

    #562 FWO – IANAL, but I would suggest you get some advice from one before posting accusations like that. We don’t want to cause problems for our gracious host.

    Jim Miller (edcec1) — 9/13/2021 @ 7:51 pm

    frosty (f27e97)

  575. @590, that dominion joke was funny!

    Time123 (54e6d2)

  576. If it was intended sincerely it would meet the definition

    Time123 (54e6d2)

  577. QAnoners like Wolski and Wood tend to believe other things without any basis in fact, such as that ivermectin is an effective treatment, or that Trump won, or that a secret Jewish cabal was behind the 9/11 attacks. Ms. Wolski is responsible for her own bad, ill-informed (or mal-informed) decisions.

    I’d say eliminationist rhetoric is far more problematic than noting that hospitals are committing malpractice by shoving a pipe down COVID patients’ throats, when the data has shown for a year and a half now that doing so increases their risk of dying.

    What’s your proof about ventilators?

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  578. Our Most Reliable Pandemic Number Is Losing Meaning
    A new study suggests that almost half of those hospitalized with COVID-19 have mild or asymptomatic cases.

    At least 12,000 Americans have already died from COVID-19 this month, as the country inches through its latest surge in cases. But another worrying statistic is often cited to depict the dangers of this moment: The number of patients hospitalized with COVID-19 in the United States right now is as high as it has been since the beginning of February. It’s even worse in certain places: Some states, including Arkansas and Oregon, recently saw their COVID hospitalizations rise to higher levels than at any prior stage of the pandemic. But how much do those latter figures really tell us?

    From the start, COVID hospitalizations have served as a vital metric for tracking the risks posed by the disease. Last winter, this magazine described it as “the most reliable pandemic number,” while Vox quoted the cardiologist Eric Topol as saying that it’s “the best indicator of where we are.” On the one hand, death counts offer finality, but they’re a lagging signal and don’t account for people who suffered from significant illness but survived. Case counts, on the other hand, depend on which and how many people happen to get tested. Presumably, hospitalization numbers provide a more stable and reliable gauge of the pandemic’s true toll, in terms of severe disease. But a new, nationwide study of hospitalization records, released as a preprint today (and not yet formally peer reviewed), suggests that the meaning of this gauge can easily be misinterpreted—and that it has been shifting over time.

    If you want to make sense of the number of COVID hospitalizations at any given time, you need to know how sick each patient actually is. Until now, that’s been almost impossible to suss out. The federal government requires hospitals to report every patient who tests positive for COVID, yet the overall tallies of COVID hospitalizations, made available on various state and federal dashboards and widely reported on by the media, do not differentiate based on severity of illness. Some patients need extensive medical intervention, such as getting intubated. Others require supplemental oxygen or administration of the steroid dexamethasone. But there are many COVID patients in the hospital with fairly mild symptoms, too, who have been admitted for further observation on account of their comorbidities, or because they reported feeling short of breath. Another portion of the patients in this tally are in the hospital for something unrelated to COVID, and discovered that they were infected only because they were tested upon admission. How many patients fall into each category has been a topic of much speculation. In August, researchers from Harvard Medical School, Tufts Medical Center, and the Veterans Affairs Healthcare System decided to find out.

    Researchers have tried to get at similar questions before. For two separate studies published in May, doctors in California read through several hundred charts of pediatric patients, one by one, to figure out why, exactly, each COVID-positive child had been admitted to the hospital. Did they need treatment for COVID, or was there some other reason for admission, like cancer treatment or a psychiatric episode, and the COVID diagnosis was merely incidental? According to the researchers, 40 to 45 percent of the hospitalizations that they examined were for patients in the latter group.

    The authors of the paper out this week took a different tack to answer a similar question, this time for adults. Instead of meticulously looking at why a few hundred patients were admitted to a pair of hospitals, they analyzed the electronic records for nearly 50,000 COVID hospital admissions at the more than 100 VA hospitals across the country. Then they checked to see whether each patient required supplemental oxygen or had a blood oxygen level below 94 percent. (The latter criterion is based on the National Institutes of Health definition of “severe COVID.”) If either of these conditions was met, the authors classified that patient as having moderate to severe disease; otherwise, the case was considered mild or asymptomatic.

    The study found that from March 2020 through early January 2021—before vaccination was widespread, and before the Delta variant had arrived—the proportion of patients with mild or asymptomatic disease was 36 percent. From mid-January through the end of June 2021, however, that number rose to 48 percent. In other words, the study suggests that roughly half of all the hospitalized patients showing up on COVID-data dashboards in 2021 may have been admitted for another reason entirely, or had only a mild presentation of disease.

    This increase was even bigger for vaccinated hospital patients, of whom 57 percent had mild or asymptomatic disease. But unvaccinated patients have also been showing up with less severe symptoms, on average, than earlier in the pandemic: The study found that 45 percent of their cases were mild or asymptomatic since January 21. According to Shira Doron, an infectious-disease physician and hospital epidemiologist at Tufts Medical Center, in Boston, and one of the study’s co-authors, the latter finding may be explained by the fact that unvaccinated patients in the vaccine era tend to be a younger cohort who are less vulnerable to COVID and may be more likely to have been infected in the past.

    https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/620062/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  579. I wonder how the QAnonuts will react when it’s revealed that there is no Q per se. That it is a collective. An HIV-positive support group, composed of former prostitutes, male and female, who decide to play a practical joke on, and extract revenge from, their most strident adversaries and erstwhile customers both.

    Nothing, right? QAnon not only has gotten a life of its own, not only are its members fully immersed in their own homebrewed delusions, it will still serve the frauds who while they themselves maintain contact with reality find the deluded useful to their own personal interests.

    It’s really diabolical.

    nk (1d9030)

  580. nk (1d9030) — 9/14/2021 @ 7:32 am

    I wonder how the QAnonuts any of the True Believers will react when it’s revealed that there [are] no Q reliable people behind the curtain per se. That it is a collective. An HIV-positive support group, composed of former prostitutes, male and female, who decide to play a practical joke on, and extract revenge from, their most strident adversaries and erstwhile customers both.

    Nothing, right? QAnon NeverTrump/QAnon not only has gotten a life of its own, not only are its members fully immersed in their own homebrewed delusions, it will still serve the frauds who while they themselves maintain contact with reality find the deluded useful to their own personal interests.

    It’s really diabolical.

    FIFY

    frosty (f27e97)

  581. “Democrats’ second biggest concern was unvaccinated Americans. 56% of Democrats said they posed a serious threat to the country. President Joe Biden announced last week the Department of Labor would begin requiring businesses of 100 or more employees to mandate vaccinations against COVID-19 or submit to weekly testing.”

    They skeered! Trump boogedy boogedy! COVID boogedy boogedy!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  582. 562. Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 9/13/2021 @ 7:37 pm

    . And the data have shown for months that putting COVID patients on vents is basically a death sentence.

    It is, something like 80% of the time. It’s the wrong treatment for Covid. They need oxygen, not ventilators.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  583. g that hospitals are committing malpractice by shoving a pipe down COVID patients’ throats,

    LIt’s not malpractice if very many doctors do it. Malpractice is doing something that is below the standard of care.

    A malpractice lawsit alleges that a different doctor would have done things differently.

    It’s been known almost since the beginning – by doctors who complained and one even resigned his job – that the ventilator treatment is usually completely wrong.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  584. China has realized that the English language is associated with freedom and human rights, and that violating human rights of people who speak English creates more trouble, and is de-emphasizing the teaching and learning of English. (not abolishing it – it is needed for highly skilled and educated people) But they don’t want the average person to be so likely to know it

    It helps that Xi Jinping doesn’t know English himself

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/09/business/china-english.html

    Last month Shanghai forbade local elementary schools to hold final exams on the English language.

    .

    Last year, China’s education authority barred primary and junior high schools from using overseas textbooks. A government adviser recommended this year that the country’s annual college entrance examination stop testing English. New restrictions this summer on for-profit, after-school tutoring chains affected companies that have taught English for years.

    Original English and translated books are discouraged at universities, too, especially in the more sensitive subjects, such as journalism and constitutional studies, according to professors who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

    China is going into isolation.

    China also said in August that (as part of pandemic control procedures, it said) it would suspend issuing and renewing passports except for urgent and necessary occasions.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

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