Patterico's Pontifications

7/30/2021

Vaccinated Or Not, LAUSD Requiring Weekly Covid Testing For All Returning On-Site Students And Employees

Filed under: General — Dana @ 9:27 am



[guest post by Dana]

This is sure to draw ire from any number of Los Angeles Unified School District parents:

The Los Angeles Unified School District will require all students and employees who are returning for in-person instruction to participate in weekly COVID-19 testing — regardless of vaccination status, the district announced Thursday.

“This is in accordance with the most recent guidance from the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health,” Interim Superintendent Megan K. Reilly said in a statement.

LAUSD, the nation’s second-largest school district, had previously said that fully vaccinated students and employees would not require testing. But as schools district-wide prepare to reopen for in-person instruction on Aug. 16, L.A. Unified said it’s closely monitoring evolving health conditions and adapting its response.

In addition to regular testing, safety measures will include: masking for all students, staff and visitors; maximizing physical distancing as much as possible; continuing comprehensive sanitizing efforts, including frequent hand washing; upgraded air filtration systems; and collaborating with health partners and agencies to support free COVID-19 vaccination.

In California, if students want to attend public school, private schools, or daycare, they must be immunized against 10 serious communicable diseases: diphtheria, Haemophilus influenzae Type B (bacterial meningitis), measles, mumps, pertussis (whooping cough), polio, rubella, tetanus, hepatitis B and chicken pox. Vaccination laws only apply at specific times: upon entering child care, transitional kindergarten/kindergarten or 7th grade, or when transferring into schools or child care from out of state or out of the country. Otherwise, the immunization status of students is not an issue.

If Covid-19 vaccines were mandated for school children, the question then becomes, will parents be allowed to opt-out of immunizing their children based solely on their personal beliefs? The answer to that is still unknown, given that there is not yet an approved Covid-19 vaccine for children 12 years and under, and it depends on which State entity adds Covid-19 vaccine to the list of mandated vaccines for schoolchildren:

Currently, flu, HPV and COVID-19 vaccinations are not required for California students under Senate Bill 277…

Once the vaccines are fully approved for young children, it’s unclear whether lawmakers will consider adding the COVID-19 vaccine to the schedule of mandated shots.

That means there are currently no personal belief exemptions for these vaccinations, because they are not mandated in the first place. At the moment, parents can choose whether to vaccinate their children against these diseases.

But if those vaccinations were to be added to the state’s list of mandatory shots, experts say a personal belief exemption may not apply — depending on how the new vaccines are added to the list.

Dorit Reiss, a professor of law at UC Hastings and a member of the Vaccine Working Group on Ethics and Policy, said the law included a clause that allows the California Department of Public Health (CDPH) to mandate new vaccinations.

If vaccinations are added to the schedule in this way, the law stipulates that personal belief exemptions must be offered to parents and students.

“New vaccines required — like COVID, flu, HPV — will have a [personal belief exemption] if, and only if, the department of health adds them without going through the legislature,” Reiss said. “If the Legislature adds them, the Legislature will set the terms.”

That means that the state Legislature could choose to pass legislation that adds a vaccination to the current list without offering a personal belief exemption.

“The Legislature may at any time amend or pass a new statute to add a required immunization,” said Brandon Stracener, a senior research fellow at UC Berkeley Law School’s California Constitution Center. “This additional restriction on the department, an executive regulatory agency, reflects a balance between the greater speed with which agencies can react and the more direct voter accountability legislators face.”

Additionally:

Reiss said the CDPH has yet to add a vaccination of its own to the list since SB 277 passed in 2015.

“I expect that if it’s added, it would be added by the legislature,” she said. “That’s how all currently mandated vaccines were added. I think the CDPH would be very cautious of the political implications if it went at this without legislative mandate.”

That means there likely would not be a personal belief exemption.

“The [CDPH] could attempt to deem coronavirus an appropriate disease under these statutes to require immunization,” Stracener said. “But the legislature might have to respond itself if a large enough number of asserted personal belief exemptions made it clear that the legislature would have to act to ensure public safety.”

Along with no philosophical opt-out for immunizations in California, the Ca. Health & Safety Code (§ 120325 et seq.) also notes there is no religious exemption as well.

–Dana

73 Responses to “Vaccinated Or Not, LAUSD Requiring Weekly Covid Testing For All Returning On-Site Students And Employees”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (174549)

  2. I’m struggling to imagine the logistics of testing every student in LAUSD weekly.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  3. There is a difference between employee and student, as employees may be covered by federal law and other other workplace protections. Generally these require accommodations for those with medical conditions or “sincerely-held” religious objections.

    AIUI, the current vaccine laws for schoolchildren in CA only allow medical exemptions, and attempts to circumvent this have led to several doctors being struck off for issuing false exemptions.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  4. It is hard to say what the legislature might do, since — despite the slant of news stories — a sizable number of objectors are not political.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  5. I’m struggling to imagine the logistics of testing every student in LAUSD weekly.

    Indeed. Although I expect some jostling to get that contract.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  6. If Covid-19 vaccines were mandated for school children, the question then becomes, will parents be allowed to opt-out of immunizing their children based solely on their personal beliefs? The answer to that is still unknown…

    Local news has San Diego area parents groups already railing over more of this being imposed. They’re pretty much at a breaking point on this… the ‘noise’ is getting so overwhelming, folks are just frustrated and tuning it all out. The messaging is all so muddled anymore.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  7. The New York Post has a front page that attempts to demonstrate graphically how crazy it is to worry about breakthrough cases of Covid:

    https://nypost.com/cover/july-30-2021

    It shows 11 rows of 15 squares (that actually equals 165) to represent 161 million vaccinated Americans and how you only need one corner of one square to represent the 5,601 hospitalized “breakthrough” cases of Covid and even less to represent the 1,141 deaths.

    In other words, that it’s not a reason, according to them, for vaccinated people to wear masks.

    (although I think mild cases might be responsible for not soo mild cases after a few iterations.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  8. 2. aphrael (4c4719) — 7/30/2021 @ 9:51 am

    I’m struggling to imagine the logistics of testing every student in LAUSD week

    They are probably assuming that almost everyone will choose the vaccination.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  9. Someone from some testing company is going to get very rich from this LAUSD directive.

    Hoi Polloi (121542)

  10. so we’re going to be more stringent with students than we are with illegals streaming across the border

    JF (e1156d)

  11. If we have excess supply we should start vaccinating everyone that comes over the border and helping Mexico vaccinate everyone that doesn’t.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  12. wouldn’t need to test everyone weekly if they mandated the teachers get the vaccine and wear masks

    frosty (f27e97)

  13. @11 good luck getting them to show up for their second shot

    JF (e1156d)

  14. @12, True, we should do that.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  15. The first shot alone is beneficial even if we can’t get the 2nd shot in them.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  16. @15 even more beneficial is to turn them away

    JF (e1156d)

  17. I wonder if we had a maga breakout in the teachers unions.

    frosty (f27e97)

  18. Embrace both

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  19. Frosty, if you think zero Trump supporters are public school teachers I have some news for you….

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  20. @19; you got me. I thought there were zero DT supporting teachers. Need to mandate those vaccines and purge the ranks.

    frosty (f27e97)

  21. @18 i think you’re missing the point

    those currently in power with the means to actually do something aren’t interested in either

    in fact, quite the opposite
    https://dailycaller.com/2021/07/30/merrick-garland-legal-action-abbott-texas-immigration/

    JF (e1156d)

  22. Or mandate the vaccine for teachers and try to get back to normal.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  23. @21; “Well, I wouldn’t say I’ve been missing it, Bob.” – Peter Gibbons – Office Space

    frosty (f27e97)

  24. @21, I got your point. You make it over and over again as if repetition will make it more compelling.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  25. @23, DANGIT I wish I’d thought of that.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  26. @7: The real comparison is between hospitalizations & deaths for vaccinate and unvaccinated, not those in proportion to the general population since only 0.2% of the US population has died from this.

    And that’s not even the real issue, it’s one argument. The real issue is ending the pandemic, and those who refuse to vaccinate are shirking their duty to the nation. You’d think they were being drafted to fight in Vietnam for all the whining.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  27. They are probably assuming that almost everyone will choose the vaccination.

    They are testing everyone, vaccinated or not. So the real message is “the beatings will continue even after morale improves!”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  28. so we’re going to be more stringent with students than we are with illegals streaming across the border

    Refugees should be tested immediately. Ill “refugees” should be held together. All others should be given the J&J shot immediately (if they refuse, they can go back to Mexico). Children included; it won’t be the first risk they have taken.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. @11 good luck getting them to show up for their second shot

    J&J is just one shot.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  30. @21: That’s pretty funny when CA passed a law criminalizing private cooperation with ICE.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  31. I find it ironic that the stalwart defenders of America First! cannot put America first.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  32. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/30/2021 @ 11:44 am

    Must not mock … shirking their duty to the nation … ok. I think I made it past that.

    The real issue is ending the pandemic

    Do you have a working definition for this? Below some number of deaths/hospitalizations, etc? Do you think covid will be with us like the seasonal flu with continuing variations or that it will be more like an outbreak?

    frosty (f27e97)

  33. @31, The lies about the election and Jan 6 pretty much put their claims of patriotism to rest.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  34. @24 well, that’s a relief

    this is about the time the thread turns into whatabout trump, and i note your unusual display of self restraint

    so kudos

    JF (e1156d)

  35. spoke way too soon

    JF (e1156d)

  36. Now the CDC is quashing memos on Delta…

    This administration has so fvcked up the messaging with this… and the fish rots from the head down… as only a mealy mouthed senator could do. So much for researching germ warfare…

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  37. Sammy, at 8: the report is that they are requiring testing *regardless of vaccination status*.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  38. This is akin to testing everyone in existence for alcohol in their blood to make sure they don’t get in a car and head out and kill someone. Everyone should applaud this safeguard.

    BuDuh (7bca93)

  39. Sammy, the leadership on this has been horrible for the beginning and the biden administration hasn’t been much of an improvement.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  40. Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/30/2021 @ 11:40 am

    Why engage if you know you don’t want to respond to the point? Just to change the subject?

    frosty (f27e97)

  41. The policy also allows students to continue distance learning without COVID-19 testing or vaccination.

    Rip Murdock (0d5408)

  42. Vaxxes?… vaxxes? We don’t need no stinkin’ vaxxes!!!

    “Two of the country’s largest teachers’ unions refuse to mandate [Chinese] COVID-19 vaccinations for their members, even as public schools require vaccinations for their students. The National Education Association (NEA) and American Federation of Teachers (AFT) are pushing against mandatory teacher vaccinations as the 2021-22 school year approaches, instead asking for weekly testing and other alternatives. . .
    . . . The move contradicts remarks made in September 2020 by AFT president Randi Weingarten. At the time, she said she supported mandating [Chinese] COVID-19 vaccines for teachers once they were approved and made readily available. The powerful teachers’ unions are breaking with labor leadership in their approach. AFL-CIO president Richard Trumka said Tuesday he supports a vaccine mandate for union workers.”

    https://freebeacon.com/coronavirus/top-teachers-unions-refuse-vaccination-requirement/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  43. Thought provoking:

    Thomas Massie
    @RepThomasMassie
    ·
    22m
    Many prior assumptions or hypotheses about COVID vaccines were challenged by the information in today’s CDC MMWR report.

    This is a thread with some of the prior assumptions and hypotheses compared to the troubling information from Barnstable County, MA:

    Prior assumption:
    Most infections are occurring among the unvaccinated.

    Report:
    “vaccination coverage among eligible Massachusetts residents was 69%. Approximately three quarters (346; 74%) of cases occurred in fully vaccinated persons”

    *****
    Prior assumption:
    Vaccinated individuals who contract COVID will likely be asymptomatic.

    Report:
    “Overall, 274 (79%) vaccinated patients with breakthrough infection were symptomatic.”

    ******
    Prior assumption:
    COVID won’t spread quickly among vaccinated.

    Report:
    “On July 3, DPH had reported a 14-day average incidence of 0 cases per 100k persons / day in residents of the town in Barnstable Co; by July 17, the 14-day average incidence increased to 177 cases per 100k”

    *****
    prior assumption:
    the vaccine may wear off over time, but will provide robust protection in the first few months.

    Report:
    “Among fully vaccinated symptomatic persons, the median interval from completion of ≥14 days after the final vac- cine dose to symptom onset was 86 days”

    *******
    prior assumption:
    Hospitalizations primarily occur only in the unvaccinated.

    Report:
    “Among five COVID-19 patients who were hospitalized, four were fully vaccinated”

    *****
    Prior assumption:
    Viral load is lower in the vaccinated breakthrough cases

    Report:
    “(RT-PCR) cycle threshold (Ct) values in specimens from 127 vaccinated persons with breakthrough cases were similar to those from 84 persons who were unvaccinated or not fully vaccinated…”

    *****
    Hypothesis:
    vaccine X is prone to breakthrough but not vaccine Y.

    Report:
    “Vaccine products received by persons experiencing breakthrough infections were Pfizer-BioNTech (159; 46%), Moderna (131; 38%), and Janssen (56; 16%)”

    Here’s the CDC report:

    https://cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/pdfs/mm7031e2-H.pdf…

    https://mobile.twitter.com/RepThomasMassie/status/1421182750875426824

    Probably a messenger problem, even though he included the data.

    BuDuh (7bca93)

  44. @41 a ridiculous option

    JF (e1156d)

  45. @42 I miss Nic. He could explain how this wasn’t really a problem and that this should be addressed by the school board.

    frosty (f27e97)

  46. Now Pfizer is saying it has science showing that if we all get a third shot, we’ll all be a lot safer from COVID, especially the Delta variant.

    It’s hard to imagine how a for-profit biotech company found dispassionate, reasoned data showing that we all need another booster shot that would just coincidentally fatten the corporate coffers of the company that makes the vaccine.

    Hoi Polloi (121542)

  47. @43; the CDC needs to be careful. Saying the vaccines aren’t living up to the promises will get them booted from social media.

    frosty (f27e97)

  48. Time123 (9f42ee) — 7/30/2021 @ 10:55 am

    The first shot alone is beneficial even if we can’t get the 2nd shot in them.

    IIRC,

    J&J shot against Delta – ??? several points lower. Or maybe not.

    J&J against old virus – 66%

    First Pfizer – low 70s

    Previous infection + first Pfizer: 80%

    Two Pfizer, second one after 3-4 weeks: – 90%

    Second Pfizer after months – even higher.

    Percentages are proportion of people vaccinated who get it compared to those who got the placebo.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  49. 43.

    “vaccination coverage among eligible Massachusetts residents was 69%. Approximately three quarters (346; 74%) of cases occurred in fully vaccinated persons”

    That would mean that vaccination increases the chances of getting diagnosed with Covid. While it does, the first few days after vaccination, this statistic is impossible.

    *****
    prior assumption:
    the vaccine may wear off over time, but will provide robust protection in the first few months.

    And just why was that the prior assumption. Most vaccines don’t wear off like that.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  50. See Spot run. Run. Run. Run.

    See Joe drive. Drive. Drive. Drive… his 18 wheeler:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgaGYea-DrQ

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  51. @40, several of my comments in this thread were intended to be somewhat unserious. Which did you feel was changing the subject?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  52. #5
    No jostling required for dozen of no bid consultant contracts

    steveg (ebe7c1)

  53. #19
    The real question is how many Trump supporters are there in the teachers union leadership

    steveg (ebe7c1)

  54. #26 Wait until we get a real pandemic instead of this feeble one. COVID is 1/3 of the Spanish Flu in the US and doesn’t kill young people in significant numbers.
    Black Death killed between 5% -40% of the worlds total population and COVID has killed .0025%

    COVID at .0025% on the pandemic scale is a pandemic because of the world coverage, not because its a significant killer

    steveg (ebe7c1)

  55. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    I’m struggling to imagine the logistics of testing every student in LAUSD week

    They are probably assuming that almost everyone will choose the vaccination.

    Except the District are planning to test everyone weekly “regardless of vaccination status.” There are something like 600,000 students in the LAUSD, plus tens of thousands of district employees. Assuming a five-day work week, the District are going to have to have something like 130,000 tests performed every day!

    It’s interesting: the LAUSD are planning to condition public education, something required by state law, on a particularly unpleasant sample collection every single week, even if a student or staffer is vaccinated. Yeah, that’s not going to generate any lawsuits at all!

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (405d48)

  56. Mr 123 wrote:

    Or mandate the vaccine for teachers and try to get back to normal.

    But the vast majority of teachers are supposedly Democrats, and 100% of Democrats are already vaccinated, right?

    Of course, the employees of the LAUSD are all unionized; there will be fights.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (405d48)

  57. Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 7/30/2021 @ 12:52 pm

    That would mean that vaccination increases the chances of getting diagnosed with Covid.

    A person’s chances of getting covid are a combination of multiple factors. I’m don’t think your conclusion follows directly from the data.

    And just why was that the prior assumption. Most vaccines don’t wear off like that.

    I think the original quote is using terms loosely but I didn’t go into the CDC report. The flu vaccine needs to be updated each year. So, yes a vaccine remains effective against a given variant but may not be as effective against others. If there is a mix of variants in the population and they’re using terms loosely it’s possible to say vaccine X is becoming less effective against covid generally because another variant has begun to spread.

    frosty (f27e97)

  58. Mr M wrote:

    so we’re going to be more stringent with students than we are with illegals streaming across the border

    Refugees should be tested immediately. Ill “refugees” should be held together. All others should be given the J&J shot immediately (if they refuse, they can go back to Mexico). Children included; it won’t be the first risk they have taken.

    They should be given the shot, and then sent back to Mexico anyway.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (405d48)

  59. JF wrote:

    The policy also allows students to continue distance learning without COVID-19 testing or vaccination.

    @41 a ridiculous option

    So, you would deny public educated, something that the law mandates must be provided, if some parents or students refuse to have a long cotton swab up a stick shoved up their noses once a week?

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (405d48)

  60. @55; I don’t think it’s about going back. This is just the latest in the continuing saga of “we’d love to go back but …”

    frosty (f27e97)

  61. There are alternative tests and could be still others. There could be a machine that samples a whole group oof people at one time. Dogs bees and maybe even elephants can be trained.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  62. From The Oregonian, not your typical evil reich wing site:

    Masks, vaccines could stop COVID delta variant spike within two weeks, CDC director says
    Updated Jul 29, 4:29 PM; Posted Jul 29, 11:56 AM

    A renewed vaccine push mixed with masking could flatten America’s recent spike in coronavirus cases within two weeks, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Wednesday morning.

    Dr. Rochelle Walensky sounded the hopeful note after her health agency reversed lenient face-covering guidelines on Tuesday, urging even vaccinated Americans to wear masks indoors at schools and in high-risk regions.

    Though the country has faced a steep rise in cases this month — a trend that frustrated federal officials blame on vaccine hesitancy — Walensky suggested that jabs and masks can quickly bat back the delta variant wreaking havoc across the U.S.

    “We can halt the chain of transmission,” Walensky told “CBS This Morning” on Wednesday. “We can do something if we unify together, if we get people vaccinated who are not yet vaccinated, if we mask in the interim, we can halt this in just a matter of a couple of weeks.”

    Two weeks to flatten the curve. Now, where have I heard that before?

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (405d48)

  63. As of today masks are required for everyone, vaccinated or not, inside any establishment or place of business in Nevada.

    Why do I, a vaccinated person, have to wear a mask? To protect the idiots who refuse the vaccine? Screw ’em.

    I think Governor Sisolak just lowered his chances of re-election next year.

    norcal (a6130b)

  64. Two weeks to flatten the curve. Now, where have I heard that before?

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (405d48) — 7/30/2021 @ 5:38 pm

    The sequel is rarely as good as the original, and doing one for something that bombed the first time is the ultimate in self-indulgent waste.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  65. 55- Except the District are planning to test everyone weekly “regardless of vaccination status.” There are something like 600,000 students in the LAUSD, plus tens of thousands of district employees. Assuming a five-day work week, the District are going to have to have something like 130,000 tests performed every day!

    I’m VERY curious to see how they plan to enforce and execute this. LAUSD is now over 70% Latino, a demographic that’s not as susceptible to the same type of cathedral class finger-wagging that white liberals and moderates tend to knuckle under to rather quickly. I can’t imagine that a bunch of hormone-riddled, surly Latino teenagers from working-class families are going to be all that thrilled with the prospect of having to get tested even if they are vaccinated, much less their parents. Expect either a hard backlash that makes them back off of this policy, or a bunch of slick propaganda pieces from a few select district students to try and establish a culture of peer pressure to suck it up and deal.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  66. frosty (f27e97) — 7/30/2021 @ 12:29 pm

    Thank you.

    I’d say more, but it cannot be proven.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  67. They should be given the shot, and then sent back to Mexico anyway.

    You are asking for the impossible.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  68. Of course, the employees of the LAUSD are all unionized; there will be fights

    Let them strike to avoid vaccines. It’s not the classroom teachers who are the problem anyway.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  69. Mr Orphan wrote:

    55- Except the District are planning to test everyone weekly “regardless of vaccination status.” There are something like 600,000 students in the LAUSD, plus tens of thousands of district employees. Assuming a five-day work week, the District are going to have to have something like 130,000 tests performed every day!

    I’m VERY curious to see how they plan to enforce and execute this. LAUSD is now over 70% Latino, a demographic that’s not as susceptible to the same type of cathedral class finger-wagging that white liberals and moderates tend to knuckle under to rather quickly. I can’t imagine that a bunch of hormone-riddled, surly Latino teenagers from working-class families are going to be all that thrilled with the prospect of having to get tested even if they are vaccinated, much less their parents. Expect either a hard backlash that makes them back off of this policy, or a bunch of slick propaganda pieces from a few select district students to try and establish a culture of peer pressure to suck it up and deal.

    Actually what you can expect is a whole bunch of students who are going to reach out with their fists and jack your jaw if you try to stick that thing up their noses.

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (405d48)

  70. he libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (405d48) — 7/30/2021 @ 2:26 pm

    Except the District are planning to test everyone weekly “regardless of vaccination status.” There are something like 600,000 students in the LAUSD, plus tens of thousands of district employees. Assuming a five-day work week, the District are going to have to have something like 130,000 tests performed every day!

    The cost to an individual could be 50 or $00 – or even $3,400 (one hospita;’s surprise bill in one case) but by federal law, insurance is re

    It’s interesting: the LAUSD are planning to condition public education, something required by state law, on a particularly unpleasant sample collection every single week, even if a student or staffer is vaccinated. Yeah, that’s not going to generate any lawsuits at all!

    T

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  71. Accidentally sent prematurely/

    The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (405d48) — 7/30/2021 @ 2:26 pm

    Except the District are planning to test everyone weekly “regardless of vaccination status.” There are something like 600,000 students in the LAUSD, plus tens of thousands of district employees. Assuming a five-day work week, the District are going to have to have something like 130,000 tests performed every day!

    The cost to an individual could be 50 or $100 – or even $3,400 (one hospital’s surprise bill in one case) but by federal law, insurance is required to pay for it without a co-payment. That is, wen ordered by a doctor, but probably not when it’s part of mass screening. I suppose the school district will pay.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  72. And that’s not even the real issue, it’s one argument. The real issue is ending the pandemic, and those who refuse to vaccinate are shirking their duty to the nation. You’d think they were being drafted to fight in Vietnam for all the whining.
    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 7/30/2021 @ 11:44 am

    The pfizer vaccine will not end the pandemic, only reduce its effects. Unfortunately it is growing more clear, despite early hopes and some limited research on transmissability earlier wild-type strains of COVID, that COVID vaccinated persons may be both infected and infectious. It is far leakier than hoped. This means that antigenic drift will do its thing, and there will be escape variants. And it is not as if the border is hermetically sealed. Since discontinuation of positive test reporting (without hospital admission or death attributed to COVID) ended in May by controversial decision and has only just resumed, how easily covid is spread by vaccinated vectors will take some time to establish. Since mild and asymptomatic cases fly under the radar the chance of no isolation and persistence are high even among the vaccinated, til a variant emerges that escapes the vaccine but can still use the ACE 2 receptor to bind and make people very ill. If the vaccine is not robust and immunity simply fades, boosters could help but you know as well as I do that chasing people down for a third, fourth and fifth shot is going to meet with some logistical problems not to mention increasing push back.

    People who have had COVID have durable and robust residual immunity. In Germany and France those persons get one dose, because there is no apparent benefit to two and some increased risk, and it spared doses for where they can do good. In the US this is still being debated, I side with Germany and France. There is a retrospective with small sample and some other considerable limitations that show that vaccinating the previously infected has a statistically significant benefit, abeit small in terms of actual effect. But it’s kind of a junk study, and there are others showing only marginal benefit if any. So there are people besides those with allergies or illness to excuse them from rejecting vaccine risks, when the only benefit to be gained is something they already have.

    I’m convinced now the virus is endemic, YMMV, but that the pfizer vaccine is a short term solution that may even make things worse in the long run. I’m much more interested in e-protein vaccines, Novavax, and pfizers protease inhibitors now in clinical trial. A simple pill preventative may be even better than the antibody treatments being considered for prevention (and already available for any early-case high risk person in infusion form)

    I’m considered with FDA foot dragging with Novavax. That’s something to watch.

    SarahW (08f5d7)


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