Patterico's Pontifications

7/30/2015

Fourth Planned Parenthood Video: It Just Gets Worse

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:11 pm

[guest post by Dana]

Consider this a warning:

In the video, actors posing as representatives from a human biologics company meet with Ginde at the abortion-clinic headquarters of PPRM in Denver to discuss a potential partnership to harvest fetal organs. When the actors request intact fetal specimens, Ginde reveals that in PPRM’s abortion practice, “Sometimes, if we get, if someone delivers before we get to see them for a procedure, then we are intact.”

Since PPRM does not use digoxin or other feticide in its 2nd trimester procedures, any intact deliveries before an abortion are potentially born-alive infants under federal law (1 USC 8).

They are harvesting organs from live births.

Further, the discussion of the illegality of their business is discussed:

Dr. Savita Ginde, negotiating a fetal body parts deal, agreeing multiple times to illicit pricing per body part harvested, and suggesting ways to avoid legal consequences.

When the buyers ask Ginde if “compensation could be specific to the specimen?” Ginde agrees, “Okay.” Later on in the abortion clinic’s pathological laboratory, standing over an aborted fetus, Ginde responds to the buyer’s suggestion of paying per body part harvested, rather than a standard flat fee for the entire case: “I think a per-item thing works a little better, just because we can see how much we can get out of it.”

Ginde also suggests ways for Planned Parenthood to cover-up its criminal and public relations liability for the sale of aborted body parts. “Putting it under ‘research’ gives us a little bit of an overhang over the whole thing,” Ginde remarks. “If you have someone in a really anti state who’s going to be doing this for you, they’re probably going to get caught.”

Ginde implies that PPRM’s lawyer, Kevin Paul, is helping the affiliate skirt the fetal tissue law: “He’s got it figured out that he knows that even if, because we talked to him in the beginning, you know, we were like, ‘We don’t want to get called on,’ you know, ‘selling fetal parts across states.’” The buyers ask, “And you feel confident that they’re building those layers?” to which Ginde replies, “I’m confident that our Legal will make sure we’re not put in that situation.”

And lastly, while examining fetal remains:

GINDE: Here’s a —

MEDICAL ASSISTANT 1: Wow.

GINDE: — stomach, and heart, and the kidney and adrenal. I don’t know what else is in there. Arms.

MEDICAL ASSISTANT 2: I don’t see the legs. Did you see the legs? Another boy!

Meanwhile, the White House addressed the videos today claiming they were made by “extremists on the right” as Josh Earnest parroted Planned Parenthood talking points:

“There’s ample reason to think that this is merely the tried and true tactic that we have seen from some extremists on the right to edit this video and selectively release an edited version of the video that grossly distorts the position of the person who is actually speaking on the video,” White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said. “And Planned Parenthood has indicated that’s what has occurred here.”

Further, on Monday the Senate will vote to defund Planned Parenthood. Given that 60 votes are needed for it to pass and Democrats are staunchly against it, there is little hope of success. However, conservative Republicans intend to demand the defunding plan be folded into a spending bill needed to avoid a government shutdown this fall.

–Dana

172 Responses to “Fourth Planned Parenthood Video: It Just Gets Worse”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (86e864)

  2. It really is amazing that they can get human organs from a clump of cells.

    JD (03bbaf)

  3. At the end of the 4th video, the PP techician classifies the aborted fetus as “another boy”…not a mass of cells, or “tissue”. So they KNOW – by their own words – they are looking at HUMAN remains, status post termination.

    Utterly barbaric.

    Pete (6d94b7)

  4. I so look forward to the moronic ramblings of Barbara Boxer castigating People for refusing to allow babies to become a commodity, sold on the open market. We start allowing the sale of baby parts for research, it’s game over for America.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  5. Democrats are getting wobbly on this. Even with the degradation the culture that has been going on since 1968 when it began, this might be a bridge too far for some Democrats. Maybe even enough.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  6. Josh very Earnestly said:

    There’s ample reason to think that this is merely the tried and true tactic that we have seen from some extremists on the right to edit this video and selectively release an edited version of the video that grossly distorts the position of the person who is actually speaking on the video. And Planned Parenthood has indicated that’s what has occurred here.

    The tried and true tactic of the wicked extremists on the right is to release an edited video, and then, as soon as the miscreants scream, “It’s edited!” release the entire thing. By now, you’d think that even people as dumb as liberals would have learned that.

    It’s funny to see the left who were just oh-so-supportive of Bradley Manning and Edward Snowden and Julian Assange for exposing secrets, real national security secrets, wanting to squash any effort to shine the light on Planned Parenthood’s work.

    Abortionists are like cockroaches; they fester and feed in the dark, and scurry for cover when someone comes in the room and turns on the light. The real secret is to expose the people who staff abortion clinics — not just the “doctors,” but the nurses, staffers, receptionists, janitors, everyone — to treat them like the cockroaches of society that they are. Their names and addresses should be published, and they should be so publicly shamed and humiliated that they quit.

    Decent people should never have anything to do with anyone who works at an abortuary: they shouldn’t be their friends, they shouldn’t talk to them, they shouldn’t do business with them, they should be treated with nothing but contempt and disdain.

    The Dana who wonders why they can never learn (1b79fa)

  7. “Another boy!”

    Speechless.

    Patricia (5fc097)

  8. I have to keep coming back to John 3:20.

    For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.”

    Light needs to be brought to a great deal in our society. Cockroaches need to be dispersed.

    I’m with Louis Brandeis: “Publicity is justly commended as a remedy for social and industrial diseases. Sunlight is said to be the best of disinfectants; electric light the most efficient policeman.”

    The “selective editing” business will only convince NPR listeners. Even HRC is getting wobbly.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  9. Having read the (apparent) grossest parts of the transcript I just can’t watch the whole video. But am so glad to see these videos getting out.

    Thanks,Dana, for helping publicize this — have been following all of your posts on this. I think your average person believes PP’s just a women’s health center, doing good everywhere it goes. I hope and pray these videos (which aren’t the first large exposure of PP but — I believe — the first one since social media allowed things to go viral so fast) help change that perception. And cause private as well as public donations to starve the Beast.

    no one of consequence (f57ab8)

  10. Decent people should never have anything to do with anyone who works at an abortuary: they shouldn’t be their friends, they shouldn’t talk to them, they shouldn’t do business with them, they should be treated with nothing but contempt and disdain.
    The Dana who wonders why they can never learn (1b79fa) — 7/30/2015 @ 6:38 pm

    Used to work for a GP who delivered a lot of babies (for not being an OB-GYN). Totally pro-life and a joy to work for. He told me all the doctors in town privately referred to the most notorious abortion clinic “doctor” in town as “The Animal” and almost none of them wanted anything to do with him.

    no one of consequence (f57ab8)

  11. I can’t stand to watch the video, either. It’s going to get worse for the organleggers, isn’t it? No wonder they want to enjoin the release of the videos.

    nk (dbc370)

  12. This 4th video from the CMP sheds a whole new light on this two year old video (embedded at the link) of a PP spokeswoman opposing a Florida bill that would require abortion clinics to provide emergency medical care to any infant born alive and to transport them to the nearest hospital emergency room:

    The shocking moment a Florida Planned Parenthood lobbyist defended doctor-assisted INFANTICIDE when babies are born alive after botched abortions
    – Planned Parenthood rep: Decision about whether to save a baby born alive ‘should be between the patient and the health care provider’
    – Lawmaker: ‘I think that at that point, the patient would be the child struggling on a table. Wouldn’t you agree?’
    – Bill text: ‘An infant born alive during or immediately after attempted abortion is entitled to the same rights, powers, and privileges as any other child’

    …H.B. 1129, the Infants Born Alive Act, Snow said, ‘inserts politics where it doesn’t belong’ and ‘attempts to interfere with a woman’s ability to make her own personal medical decisions.’

    The bill was introduced by State Rep. Cary Pigman, a board certified Emergency Medicine physician. It has nine co-sponsors.

    ‘It is just really hard for me to even ask you this question,’ Republican State Rep. Jim Boyd said during the hearing, ‘because I’m almost in disbelief: If a baby is born on a table as a result of a botched abortion, what would Planned Parenthood want to have happen to that child that’s struggling for life?’

    Snow replied, ‘We believe that, you know, any decision that’s made should be left up to the woman, her family, and the physician.’

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2301374/In-Florida-Legislature-Planned-Parenthood-lobbyist-defends-doctor-assisted-infanticide-babies-born-alive-botched-abortions.html#ixzz3hQmCLtxe
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

    Even Democrats were shocked. But now we know why this is PP’s stance, don’t we?

    The infant is more valuable to them dead and parted-out than alive.

    What sick f***s.

    Steve57 (0ccd36)

  13. Patterico, looking forward to your take on the legality of these videos, and hope you’ll do a post on it. Ace was writing at his blog that California has pretty tough consent laws about recording conversations.

    Having said that: regardless of how legal or illegal these videos are, thank God they came out. It’s about time PP is exposed for the inhumane prenatal murder mill it’s become.

    qdpsteve (b06fb2)

  14. That despicable scrunt Gillibrand is fund-raising off of this.

    Gazzer (f205c8)

  15. Popehat has a pretty good piece on that case.\\

    It applies to one interview and that one not with PP.

    I doubt it will survive appeal but this is the ninth circuit.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  16. If we can’t get the bi-partisan votes to defund PP and to pass an abortion ban from at least 20 weeks (with a few exceptions) now from these abhorrent revelations it will never happen, and we may as well give up. Some millennials I know are surprisingly engaged and upset about this and I think/hope they may be a positive key to a new narrative and activism on the subject.

    elissa (da4433)

  17. the White House addressed the videos today claiming they were made by “extremists on the right” as Josh Earnest parroted Planned Parenthood talking points:

    We have sickos and idiots in the American presidency, totally ass-backwards time and time again about the truly good or truly bad aspects of people and situations.

    Liberalism is a mental illness and no better example of that than “Bathhouse Barry.”

    Mark (f32097)

  18. I forget where I read it and who wrote it, but one insightful commentator observed that the abortion lobby has to be extremist on the issue. That a woman has a “right” to kill her child right
    up to the moment of birth, of course they deny it’s a child until it leaves the hospital, because to allow exceptions destroys the whole filthy industry.

    They can’t admit to the fact that this is a human being they’re killing at any point. Because look at that video. That’s a fetus killed during the first trimester. And they’re dissecting it to
    get it’s valuable human organs, including it’s eyes.

    This is supposed to be when abortion is of the least consequence, and it’s already identifiably human, identifiable as a little boy, with organs that are worth money because it’s a human being’s organs.

    If they agree to restrictions on abortion at a late stage because it’s
    barbaric to kill a fetus at a certain point because it’s human, they can’t defend abortion at an early stage. Not even during the first trimester. Because it’s a human even then. We see the reality of that fact in this video. Even they acknowledge it’s a baby.

    Steve57 (0ccd36)

  19. Time for a dose of common sense, I think.

    Do all of you realize you are being manipulated by CMP?

    As I understand it, there is a total of about 9 or 10 hours of video CMP has or intends to release, but a far larger amount of video was actually filmed (30 hours I think, but I may be wrong). Which makes me want to know what is in all that video that is not going to be released. CMP selected the videos most conducive to their cause. Which means, to me, they do not intend you to see anything not conducive to their cause. Did they, for example, , come across any PP offices that refused to deal with them in their feigned roles?
    And if they have evidence of what they consider to be a crime, why haven’t they turned it over to a prosecutor? (And exposing a liberal prosecutor who does not pursue the case would be itself a useful thing for their purposes.)
    CMP is avowedly anti-abortion, so they are as impartial about PP as Mother Jones would be impartial about the Tea Party, and agitprop for a good cause is still agitprop. So at least step back and realize to yourself you are being agitproped.

    (The above is not meant to be a defense of PP.)

    kishnevi (91d5c6)

  20. (The above is not meant to be a defense of PP.)

    But, kishnevi, it comes off that way. Be honest. Some of that desire to rationalize or create a bit of moral equivalency is emanating from your “progressive” side. That’s fine and all, just as long as you don’t fall into the trap of out-and-out leftists, most of them enraptured by that little voice in the back of their brain that proclaims “I’m heartfelt, I’m sophisticated, I’m intellectual, I’m beautifully civilized, I’m wonderfully humane, I’m nobly tolerant. No justice, no peace! No justice, no peace!”

    Mark (f32097)

  21. 20. …And if they have evidence of what they consider to be a crime, why haven’t they turned it over to a prosecutor? (And exposing a liberal prosecutor who does not pursue the case would be itself a useful thing for their purposes.)

    (The above is not meant to be a defense of PP.)

    kishnevi (91d5c6) — 7/30/2015 @ 7:59 pm

    They have turned the case over to a prosecutor. They turned over this fourth tape to the Texas AG. The office of the Texas AG has criminal justice divisions that prosecute crimes, you know.

    And the Texas AG has already served subpoenas on three state PP affiliates.

    How do you know they haven’t turned anything over to other prosecutors?

    Steve57 (0ccd36)

  22. They have turned the case over to a prosecutor. They turned over this fourth tape to the Texas AG. The office of the Texas AG has criminal justice divisions that prosecute crimes, you know.

    Thanks. Beyond a vague mention that the Texas AG was investigating, I had heard nothing of that.

    Mark@21. Actually, my response has nothing to do with leftist tendencies, and everything to do with the type of personality I have. I disdain decisions made from emotion, and hate emotional manipulation. And the lawyer side of me too wants to know what we are not being shown. Most of you are allowing yourself to be emotionally manipulated. CMP may not be acting deceptively, but unless it releases the full complement of videos, it is being selective. The full set of facts may be as damning as these highlights. Or maybe not. You are responding not to the facts but to the selection of facts CMP wants you to see. Remember that as CMP keeps releasing these videos.

    kishnevi (91d5c6)

  23. When CMP releases an edited highlight tape they also post the full length tapes on their website.

    The highlight tapes are released staccotto

    ropelight (ce835d)

  24. …staccato to allow PP and their accomplices enough rope to hoist themselves on their own petard. It’s an effective technique for allowing liars and weasels to reveal the depths of their perfidy.

    ropelight (ce835d)

  25. Um…kishnevi? Aren’t all court cases about trying to influence juries and judges?

    I hope you aren’t implying that politics and the law are cut and dried and always factual?

    Lies are bad. Sort of like Josh Earnest’s comments, right?

    This takes me back to the “all things evil feareth the light” quotation.

    Let’s shed some light EVERYWHERE, shall we? Narrative is bad. I know we can agree on that.

    Simon Jester (7329f8)

  26. Kishnevi,

    That’s called investigative reporting. Try it some time.

    That they have so many videos exposing the barbaric acts of Planned Infanticide speaks for itself. They have pepole from the upper echelons of that human sacrifice organization chatting about how they dismember babies as they eat and drink.

    Check your premises.

    njrob (2cbf9c)

  27. kishnevi,

    http://patterico.com/2015/07/28/third-planned-parenthood-video-show-me-the-money-show-me-the-parts/#comment-1779752

    8. Hot Air is reporting that a fourth video has surfaced, PP apparently does not know what is in the video, and it could be 8 hours long.

    Of course, PP may just be saying that so if it turns out to be shorter they can claim it’s edited.

    Oh, and the Center for Medical Progress handed the video over to the Texas AG, and it is scheduled to debut at a hearing on PP in the Texas Senate.

    Steve57 (20f7d7) — 7/28/2015 @ 9:11 pm

    They turned the video over to the TX AG before they ever released it themselves. We don’t know when they turned it over. We just found out that they had two days ago. The CMP may have provided the TX AG with other videos as well; we just don’t know.

    There are a number of other states investigating PP. Those AGs may have it and others, also.

    I can see why they wouldn’t hand it over to the kali AG as Kamala Harris intends to investigate the CMP for making the video. Not PP for illegally modifying their procedures to get the body parts, and then selling them.

    So I would make her work as hard as possible to get anything from me, if I were the CMP.

    Steve57 (0ccd36)

  28. How do you justify anything that has already come out, kishnevi? It’s okay that it was done? Because if you can’t justify anything that has come out concerning PP, then you have to admit they are monstrous. Every bit as monstrous as the Waffen SS. Moreso, because they have been called out on their acts on a grand scale and they are sticking by their acts.

    John Hitchcock (0f2f4d)

  29. 23. …And the lawyer side of me too wants to know what we are not being shown. Most of you are allowing yourself to be emotionally manipulated. CMP may not be acting deceptively, but unless it releases the full complement of videos, it is being selective. The full set of facts may be as damning as these highlights. Or maybe not. You are responding not to the facts but to the selection of facts CMP wants you to see. Remember that as CMP keeps releasing these videos.

    kishnevi (91d5c6) — 7/30/2015 @ 9:10 pm

    Where does your lawyer side get its news? The CMP has been very clear about why it’s releasing these videos the way that they are. ropelight pointed it out:

    25. …staccato to allow PP and their accomplices enough rope to hoist themselves on their own petard. It’s an effective technique for allowing liars and weasels to reveal the depths of their perfidy.

    ropelight (ce835d) — 7/30/2015 @ 9:38 pm

    It’s an effective technique; release the short version and let PP and its apologists denounce it as “deceptively edited.” Then release the entire video to show it’s just as bad as it first looked.

    Then a few days later repeat the process. That’s why pols like Hillary! who first came out and defended PP against these “deceptive extremists” are putting some wiggle room between themselves and PP. Because as these tapes keep trickling out it is clear that the only people being deceptive are those at PP. Their claims they make in defense of themselves and their organization keep getting publicly destroyed.

    Those are the facts. If they never were allowed to get away with outright lying or lying through euphemisms they never could have built their abortion industry empire.

    Steve57 (0ccd36)

  30. If these hacks don’t end p.p.
    bury them alive.

    mg (31009b)

  31. my response has nothing to do with leftist tendencies,

    kishnevi, I just recall a variety of instances in the past when you’ve posted something and my overall sense at that moment was, hmm, you’re leaning left. I don’t say that to be “gotcha,” but just so you know where my assumption in general about your response to PP versus their anti-abortion foes originates from.

    Moreover, an overly comfortable approach to (or tolerance of) situational ethics is, of and by itself, naturally rooted in liberal emotions, which probably is one reason why a higher percentage of trial lawyers (a part of your industry), for example, gravitate to liberalism instead of conservatism or are enablers to leftism, less so (if at all) towards rightism.

    Mark (f32097)

  32. Yes! Let Obama shut down the federal government so that PP can continue to chop up live infants.

    But it won’t go that far. There is no Senator who wants to go on record as supporting baby chop shops. The bill will pass and a veto has a good chance of being overriden.

    Kevin M (25bbee)

  33. Expecting that somehow we will escape the whirlwind because we didn’t know or didn’t attend or were powerless to effect chsnge is fantasy.

    We have been beguiled into lives of pointless dissipation.

    DNF (208255)

  34. i think Mr. kishnevi is very perspicacious and i have harvested many insights from his commentings

    happyfeet (831175)

  35. Mr Hitchcock wrote:

    Because if you can’t justify anything that has come out concerning PP, then you have to admit they are monstrous. Every bit as monstrous as the Waffen SS. Moreso, because they have been called out on their acts on a grand scale and they are sticking by their acts.

    Oskar Gröning, who is 94 years old, was just convicted for being an accountant at Auschwitz, and sentenced to four years in prison. He wasn’t a direct part of the extermination process, but was part of the team which sorted and counted the few valuables that the Jews who were killed brought with them.

    This gives me hope that, one day, the “doctors” and the secretaries and clerks and technicians, everyone who has ever worked at an abortuary, can one day be hauled before the bar of justice, be tried and convicted and sent to prison for what they have done.

    Yeah, yeah, I know: ex post facto laws aren’t allowed in the United States. But perhaps, when I become Tsar of the World, I can declare abortion to be a crime against humanity, and have everyone who has ever had anything to do with this terrible crime arrested.

    The historian Dana (f6a568)

  36. Characterizing pro-life CMP as being ’emotionally manipulative’ for showing the reality of abortion as well as the comments of those who commit abortions – after decades of listening to pro-aborts scream “Keep your rosaries off of my ovaries!” while carrying pictures of coathangers, is an example of pro-abortion bias, despite insistence of being personally against abortion.

    All of this hypersensitivity about ‘select editing’ of videos was never a concern when the leftist media looped the Rodney King video over and over to produce the riots they got – the fact of Mr. King’s drug-addled aggression that led to the events on the selectively edited video were barely whispered footnotes. Yet in CMP’s case, as has been noted, they release the entire raw video footage concurrent with the release of the edited videos.

    Pete (ceb4bf)

  37. Happyfascist,

    you are vile. Trying to be cute as you use the same language as Planned Infanticide. Harvesting what exactly. No one speaks about insights that way especially on a page about murdering our most defenseless. Go away.

    NJRob (2cbf9c)

  38. don’t be such a daffodil

    if this agitprop campaign were targeted to me then I would respond more better like how you want

    duh

    but it’s not

    it’s targeted to you!

    wallow wallow pig in mud

    pls to enjoy your day

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  39. kishnevi,

    Your disdain for emotion is Spock-like. I like Spock but emotion has a role to play, too. If people can’t find it in themselves to feel for and want to protect defenseless babies, there isn’t much point to having laws.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  40. Your disdain for emotion is Spock-like.

    I don’t think it was a lack of emotion that triggered his desire to create some form of parallel between the ethics of PP and the secret videomakers, but actually a confused sense of what’s truly good, what’s truly bad. After all, do out-and-out liberals like Obama or Hillary deem their gut reactions towards Planned Parenthood as emanating from a dark, unkind, mean-spirited place?

    Mark (f32097)

  41. Of course it doesn’t target you Happyfascist. They’d need to show the joyful side of murdering our young, like how it frees up time for you to eat some biscuits, for it to target you.

    Enjoy your fascism and the slaughter of the unborn while trafficking in their organs. It’s all fine with you as long as you get to continue to persecute Christians and their beliefs.

    njrob (b0d09a)

  42. Mark, the two you mentioned do just that. They have mean, ugly souls.

    njrob (b0d09a)

  43. oh my goodness you’re overwrought and it’s friday and yes there are sunshines and yes there is beauty and yes there is also love in the whirl

    this ugly planned parenthood campaign thing kinda had something to do with me then i found out the loser-assed republicans aren’t trying to cut any spending just move it around

    so for now except for the odd democrat squatting down awkwardly in a defensive crouch waiting for their knickerbocker talking points this is just a lifeydoodle thing not a me thing

    i can’t do all the things

    i’m already spread kinda thin

    this is a you thing

    so get out there and make the most of it

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  44. Yet in CMP’s case, as has been noted, they release the entire raw video footage concurrent with the release of the edited videos.

    But they are not. CMP has stated they have a considerable amount of video beyond the planned nine videos. What is in those videos? boring conversations with receptionists? More body parts conversations? PP staff not wanting to cooperate in harvesting organs? Only CMP knows.
    You are trusting CMP to present an accurate and fair selection.
    You are being shown only the videos CMP wants you to see.

    If the organ harvesting is a general practice at PP, then PP should be shut down.
    But I have no reason to trust CMP’s probity. They are an unknown quantity to me, and the planned drip by drip release of the videos is transparently manipulative, to keep the outrage boiling.
    I have not watched the videos. Not enough time, honest.g a drain on my data plan… but most important, I know Dana and therefore know that Dana is presenting an accurate summary, and giving the most important highlights. So by reading Dana’s posts, I know what I need to know about the content of the video. But not knowing CMJ except that they are admittedly anti-abortion and dedicated to bringing PP down…and seeing their use of these tactics of emotional manipulation, I can not accept their credibility at face value.
    CMJ is selecting the facts for you. Until and unless they let others see the video they do not plan on releasing, no one can say they are credible and honest

    kishnevi (294553)

  45. 41.
    No, Mark, DRJ is correct. But she knows me from years ago here, and knows why I process emotion differently from most people.
    But my disdain is not at emotion, but at tactics that manipulate emotion, and decision made on emotions and not facts. And I think your gut instincts are leading you to accept CMJ as credible even though the only reason you have for thinking they are credible is the fact that you share their ultimate goal. But bad means are never justified by good ends. They merely corrupt the good ends.
    For instance, the fetal tissue scheme is apparently legal (or at least in a gray area) unless the fetus can be classified as a live birth. So how about channelling some of that outrage into changing the law to ensure fetal organ harvesting is illegal no matter what the circumstances? That way no other abortion mill can pick up where PP stops.

    kishnevi (294553)

  46. Kishnevi – were you unaware that they are posting the raw footage in conjunction with the “agitprop”?

    JD (5a9bdf)

  47. i don’t think the did raw footage for the last one just the first two Mr. JD

    i looked for it cause i like those ones more better

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  48. last one being #3

    once they stopped releasing the raw footages it kinda jumpered the shark for me personally cause of it’s soooo propagandy how they do the edited ones

    but that’s just me I can only click on n number of things so if you don’t tailor your video to my tastes you fall off the radar

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  49. JD. I know about the raw footage. But CMJ says there is much more they are not releasing. About twice as much as they plan on releasing in this series of nine videos.

    There are three categories of video
    Edited conversations
    Complete raw footage of those conversations.
    All the other video they filmed while doing this investigation.
    They are releasing the first two categories, but not the third. And unless we know what is in the third category, it is impossible to say how credible CMJ is.
    And it does not need to be a public release. Just let someone outside CMJ…the Texas AG, the papal nuncio, Sarah Palin, anyone… view and verify that the nine released videos are an accurate representation of the full data set.

    kishnevi (91d5c6)

  50. here is all the videos

    for #3 they never released the raw footage with the med tech people

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  51. What’s a Boehner part worth?

    mg (31009b)

  52. BTW, for those still following Cecil the Lion…
    http://www.rationalistjudaism.com/2015/07/lion-hunters-vs-hyena-lynchers.html

    kishnevi (93670d)

  53. So, kishnevi, you only make judgements when you get every piece of information that exists?

    On all topics?

    I doubt it.

    I salute your suspicion of ulterior motives, but this is another example of Narrative.

    I mean, I have heard similar arguments from Holocaust deniers…because few of us have all the information.

    There is a point at which being judicious in fact serves the cause of people who do not mean the world well.

    But to each their own.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  54. Kishnevi – I haven’t seen anything where they said they weren’t releasing all the material, just that they haven’t, yet. Let me ask you, if they have 40 hours of inane discussions with staffers that neither add to or detract from this story, how would that change the information that we do have, and what they have admitted to doing?

    JD (3b5483)

  55. Stemexpress what a euphemism, marketed themselves as providers of human tissue, but didn’t state the source. They have the firm that handled the various ‘war on women’ sorties running point, and hiding their trac

    narciso (ee1f88)

  56. kishnevi,

    I feel for targets, too, because anyone could be someone’s target. But isn’t there a point where if the target doesn’t deny what’s being said, the audience is justified in being concerned? PP isn’t denying what these videos show. It’s defense is that PP helps women so people should ignore these claims. In essence, even happyfeet says that. You can ignore it, too, but this may be all we get.

    DRJ (1dff03)

  57. i think Mr. kishnevi is very perspicacious and i have harvested many insights from his commentings

    happyfeet (831175) — 7/31/2015 @ 5:18 am

    Do you actually even understand what you mean by that, or do you just say stuff? kishnevi simply questions whether the rest of the videos are as “damning” (his word) as what we’ve seen.

    OTOH, if I understand your mindset, you believe nothing we’ve already been shown is damning. In fact, if I understand your mindset, no revelations about PP COULD possibly be damning, including infanticide probably, because you have some major problem with opposing abortion, for reasons you never make clear. My best guess would be because pro-lifers are usually Christian.

    The combination of your total lack of concern with babies having their skulls crushed or whatever method is used, with your extreme concern with someone not wanting to bake a cake for gays on the grounds they’re not being “nice” or something, is very strange to say the least.

    Gerald A (e1ec12)

  58. i don’t defend PP they’re sucking at the teat of government in a most unseemly way

    if they want my support they need to organize such that their costs and their revenues are in balance without using tax monies if you ask me which nobody does

    but i think this agitprop campaign against them is all very propagandy and not very compelling to me personally

    it’s same as the disgusting billboards the lifeydoodles heart so much – just this time on youtube

    I can’t get over the one salient fact

    that all these wee small babies were going to be aborted whether or not their organs went to research after

    And nobody’s disputed that.

    if you could make the case that

    a.) PP was aborting kids that otherwise wouldn’t have been aborted OR

    b.) that PP was encouraging moms to hold off on abortions til later for so they would have more better developed fetal baby organs

    then that would be very muy no bueno, but nobody’s suggested anything like a or b yet

    and they haven’t suggested that PP is proceeding without getting permission from the moms either

    so what’s going on in real life where you use the logics is not ethically any different than using cadavers for research and training which is a very very time honored practice in western medicine

    this campaign is indeed being driven 100% by feelings wo wo wo feelings

    which is why it bears some superficial resemblance to the campaign against the guy what murdered cecil

    but it’s not really my thing

    right now I’m trying to answer the question about vegan desserts: are they really a thing? cause so far the “raw tiramisu” is gack and the peabnut bubber scones are merely passable

    i still have to try “vegan brownie” (they were out yesterday) and “vegan red velvet cupcake”

    but I gotta tell you I’m rigorously managing my own expectations

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  59. this whole unpleasant and fractious dealio

    it’s just more evidence that the right in failmerica, such as it is, they’re just as happy to barrel unthinkingly into the post-enlightenment future as our socialist foodstamper global warm warm friends are

    and the pikachu frowns worriedly as they barrel by

    and nibbles pensively on vegan desserts

    and he tries to remember an america back when everything wasn’t so ooey gooey chock full of feewings

    and he sighs

    but nobody hears

    and the whirl just keeps barreling by

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  60. Oh my.

    this campaign is indeed being driven 100% by feelings wo wo wo feelings

    medice cura te ipsum comes to mind.

    But then, you are all about posturing and are fundamentally unserious.

    Folks think you are cute. But I am delighted that you display your bigotry so often. I called that a long, long time ago.

    To each their own.

    Simon Jester (c8876d)

  61. hi i’m simon jester doopy doopy doober doo you are unserious happyfeet this is a virtual cocktail party and you are RUINING IT

    but i know cura te and i’m a use it on your lil pikachu dead hahaha

    doopy doopy doober doo

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  62. *head* i mean

    on your lil pikachu head

    hahaha

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  63. Happyfascist,

    Thank you for continuing to show your ugly nature to all behind your absurdist way of typing. Everyone can see for themselves that you don’t give a damn that real lives are being killed and that they are tearing apart those bodies to make the parts as profitable as possible.

    But heaven forbid someone says something mean about a protected group that matters to you or tells them “we won’t pretend your dress up game is real.” Then, you demand the full force of government is used to crucify the offender.

    Thanks for playing.

    njrob (c94106)

  64. Narciso, we need to find out who else uses SKDKnickerbocker and ask those companies how they feel about Planned Infanticide’s practices? Ask them if they support using a PR firm that goes out of its way to support these acts?

    njrob (c94106)

  65. well don’t fly united if you don’t need to:

    http://www.skdknick.com/our-work/

    narciso (ee1f88)

  66. 55.Kishnevi – I haven’t seen anything where they said they weren’t releasing all the material, just that they haven’t, yet. Let me ask you, if they have 40 hours of inane discussions with staffers that neither add to or detract from this story, how would that change the information that we do have, and what they have admitted to doing?

    It would show that CMP was reasonable in its selection of what was released, and that we are getting all the important information. Same if the unreleased material was simply more discussion of organ harvesting. CMP in those cases comes out as a very credible organization.

    On the other hand, if some of it included conversations were with PP staffers who refused to participate in organ harvesting, that would be suppression of relevant information.

    None of us knows what is in that unreleased swathe of video. And until someone outside CMP can see it, none of us can actually say if any of it is relevant.

    And

    kishnevi (870883)

  67. Narciso, that is USAirways. Which is the airline that gave me that horrible trip back home from Richmond in May. But is (or has been completely) being merged into American, so questions may better off be put to American.

    kishnevi (870883)

  68. But heaven forbid someone says something mean about a protected group that matters to you or tells them “we won’t pretend your dress up game is real.” Then, you demand the full force of government is used to crucify the offender.

    LIES!

    show me a link Mr. rob show me a link where i ever said anything like that hah you can’t

    you have failed

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  69. if you could make the case that

    a.) PP was aborting kids that otherwise wouldn’t have been aborted OR

    b.) that PP was encouraging moms to hold off on abortions til later for so they would have more better developed fetal baby organs

    then that would be very muy no bueno, but nobody’s suggested anything like a or b yet

    Actually, I think your b. was mentioned in the most recent video.
    Or at least mentioned somewhere recently. So yes, someone has suggested that.

    But Mr Feets is correct in noting that the abortions would still have taken place.

    kishnevi (870883)

  70. apologies, you see how they represent the whole wurlitzer we’ve been seeing, on the positive side they also represent Keystone’s ethical oil effort, so cookie,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  71. So the D in SKDKnickerbocker is Anita Dunn who served as President Obama’s White House communications director.

    elissa (9650d8)

  72. you betcha, they also directed the attack on Ann Romney, and flacked ‘Julianne’s Bender’ an in kind contribution by HBO against the Huntress,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  73. mea culpa i haven’t watched the most recent one

    but that strikes me as burying the lede really

    are they just raising suspicions or do they have proof i wonder

    i might watch after lunch which is cajun chicken and rice from my favorite new place to go for lunch it’s really good for when you do the no carb thing cause you can just run in and get chicken and vegetables for under $10, which is value

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  74. Mr. Feets, may I suggest that delectable lunches are not the best material for this thread/

    kishnevi (870883)

  75. half the videos so far are lunch videos, but the trend seems to be towards more gross-out shots with a high ick factor

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  76. 68. …On the other hand, if some of it included conversations were with PP staffers who refused to participate in organ harvesting, that would be suppression of relevant information.

    kishnevi (870883) — 7/31/2015 @ 12:00 pm

    How would it be relevant to the fact that PP’s local affiliates do sell fetal organs if some staffers refuse to participate in those sales? Those sales are still taking place.

    If I had undercover video of soldiers committing war crimes, would the fact that some soldiers refused to participate in those war crimes excuse anything?

    Let’s grant your premise. Some PP staffers refuse to participate in fetal tissue sales. So what? Your argument is irrational, Dr. Spock. They wouldn’t have to refuse to participate in something if it weren’t going on, and that they’re aware of it.

    So rather than undermining the CMP’s point, this scenario you’re raising reinforces it.

    Suppose the CMP has video of PP staffers who aren’t aware of the ongoing fetal tissue harvesting. Again, so what? As Dr. Gevinde made perfectly clear, they don’t want to get caught. All that would show is these affiliates didn’t tell everyone who worked for them what they were up to. Which is the logical thing to do if you’re trying to not get caught.

    You’ve raised almost as large an army of straw men as our President has when trying to advance his Iran deal.

    Steve57 (0ccd36)

  77. i watched the 4th one and didn’t see anything really about asking women to gestate longer but i bailed at the end where it got icky cause of i was enjoying a tasty chocolate-dipped s’more from candyality

    that’s the one where you go and they always ask you “would you like to know your candy personality” and I’m always like no thank you

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  78. It appears things are going to get worse for PP.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2015/07/31/cmp-chief-stem-express-hiding-trade-in-intact-human-fetuses/

    The following makes perfect sense. The Doctor for PPRM says straight out in the third video, when asked about getting intact “specimens” that they only get about 10% of the fetuses intact. And she says that often happens when the woman delivers before they can perform the “procedure.” And we already know that PP doesn’t use any feticides when trying to “harvest tissue” (which means the fetuses that are not “harvested intact” are alive when they’re being dismembered).

    Why does Stem Express want to keep the undercover video shot by the Center for Medical Progress under wraps? David Daleiden, CMP’s project leader, tells CNN that the conversation included an admission that they “sometimes get fully intact fetuses shipped to their laboratory from the abortion clinics that they work with.” Daleiden notes, “That could be prima facie evidence of born-alive infants” — and a potential series of violations of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act (BAIPA), passed into law in 2002.

    So, let’s review. They don’t use feticides when harvesting tissue. We know from what some of the PP ghouls have said on video that some of their “specimens” are in the second trimester. Which is 13 to 28 weeks. And we know that premature infants born in the second trimester can survive if cared for outside the womb. Others wouldn’t survive, but Born Alive acts still require that any infant born alive during a botched abortion still must get care, even it the infant will ultimately die.

    No wonder StemExpress wants that video suppressed. And as I said @13:

    This 4th video from the CMP sheds a whole new light on this two year old video (embedded at the link) of a PP spokeswoman opposing a Florida bill that would require abortion clinics to provide emergency medical care to any infant born alive and to transport them to the nearest hospital emergency room

    Why would they want to take the infant to an emergency room and lose a valuable “specimen?” The emergency room workers aren’t going to give the body back to PP so they can sell it.

    These people are monsters.

    Steve57 (0ccd36)

  79. As Rush has stated – Identify the gay gene and you will stop abortion overnight.

    mg (31009b)

  80. https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01951079

    Intra Amniotic Injection of DIGOXIN for Feticide in Second Trimester Termination of Pregnancy

    In second trimester abortion above 22 weeks the investigators usually inject intra-cardiac Kcl for feticide. Digoxin intra-amniotic injection has been described in the literature in doses of 1-1.5 mg. with a success rate of about 80%, and up to 24 weeks. Our aim in this study is to investigate the safety and success rate of 1.5-2 mg. digoxin, intra-amniotic up to 30 weeks pregnancy .

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/07/health/premature-babies-22-weeks-viability-study.html?_r=0

    …The study, of thousands of premature births, found that a tiny minority of babies born at 22 weeks who were medically treated survived with few health problems, although the vast majority died or suffered serious health issues. Leading medical groups had already been discussing whether to lower the consensus on the age of viability, now cited by most medical experts as 24 weeks

    So PP is opposed to laws requiring them to provide care to infants born alive during their abortions because they want to continue to commit murder.

    Steve57 (0ccd36)

  81. as you see, carlos slims wants to drop it down the memory hole

    narciso (ee1f88)

  82. i see a lot of breathless speculation and very few documented facts it’s a lot like E3

    happyfeet (a037ad)

  83. Perhaps Planned Parenthood’s Informed Consent form should be required to include ultrasound imaging for abortions after 12 weeks ? It *should* already include ultrasound imaging to be shown (and questions by the patient answered, patiently) for abortions after 24 weeks …

    Then, we would get to see how many of those abortions would have been performed “anyway” …

    Alastor (2e7f9f)

  84. Suppose the CMP has video of PP staffers who aren’t aware of the ongoing fetal tissue harvesting. Again, so what? As Dr. Gevinde made perfectly clear, they don’t want to get caught. All that would show is these affiliates didn’t tell everyone who worked for them what they were up to. Which is the logical thing to do if you’re trying to not get caught.

    You are assuming that all PP affiliates are involved in the organ harvesting. Which is not supported by the evidence CMP has made available. I am thinking of the possibility of an entire office that does not involve itself in the scheme.

    Why would they want to take the infant to an emergency room and lose a valuable “specimen?” The emergency room workers aren’t going to give the body back to PP so they can sell it.
    Actually, there is a more basic reason. It would force them to admit that all those abortions had reached viability, irrespective of “market value”.

    kishnevi (93670d)

  85. one wonders why the injuction, this might be why:

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/421867/undefined

    narciso (ee1f88)

  86. ooh good more speculation

    happyfeet (831175)

  87. 87. …You are assuming that all PP affiliates are involved in the organ harvesting. Which is not supported by the evidence CMP has made available. I am thinking of the possibility of an entire office that does not involve itself in the scheme…

    kishnevi (93670d) — 7/31/2015 @ 3:59 pm

    NO, actually I’m not assuming that at all. As a matter of fact the CMP interviews make it very clear that not all affiliates are involved in Organ harvesting. Dr. Gevinde of PPRM says straight out that not all do. In particular those in “anti” states. As in very anti-abortion states. But that’s not the point the CMP is making.

    The point is that many affiliates do participate in organ harvesting, and they do so with the full approval of the national organization. That’s why Dr. Gevinde of PPRM, the PP affiliate for several Rocky Mountain states, talks about coordinating with Dr. Nucatola, the chief of medical services for the national organization of PP, so that affiliates who do participate in organ harvesting and the national organization are all singing from the same sheet of music.

    That’s why the CMP made that initial undercover video of Dr. Nucatola in the first place.

    You really need to watch the videos if you intend to maintain your credibility on this issue.

    Steve57 (0ccd36)

  88. That’s why the CMP made that initial undercover video of Dr. Nucatola in the first place.

    So you do realize that CMP is manipulating the evidence. You just don’t care, because you are against PP.

    Which means you are missing the important thing here.

    Most of what PP is doing is legal.
    That is why the StemExpress video is so important… it is the first video to suggest (not prove,but at least provide evidence) that some of the organ harvesting is illegal.
    Instead of defunding PP, how about demanding Congress make it illegal to get fetal tissue from elective abortions. Which is what Reagan did, until Congress reversed it in 1993.

    kishnevi (93670d)

  89. I am linking this mostly because it provides the legal background
    http://reason.com/blog/2015/07/30/will-planned-parenthood-be-defunded
    To make it very clear, I am basically anti-abortion…but I follow Jewish tradition in seeing preserving the life of the mother as not merely excusing but requiring abortion, even if the result is a partial birth abortion. The mother’s life takes precedence over the life of the baby. But I am not Mr. Feets. I think the GOP should be upset about all those little fetuses. But the way forward should be making sure all those potential mothers feel giving birth and raising kids is worth doing. Not just blocking their access to abortion.

    kishnevi (93670d)

  90. that was the excuse, but the world is more like a Hieronymous Bosch painting then ever,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  91. banning research won’t stop one single abortion

    i know this

    you know this

    my goodness this is just like how the foodstampers pimped out those poor dead newtown babies

    let’s use the wee tiny corpses to curtail freedoms and advance a fringey fringe agenda yes yes yes can we mom can we please?

    PLEEEEEEEASE?

    no picklehead now go outside and play

    happyfeet (831175)

  92. Mr. Feets, it is not a fringey fringe agenda.

    kishnevi (91d5c6)

  93. If it’s legal what’s the fuss over a video? Make it an expose on Public Television. This week on NOVA: The science of partial birth abortion. Little known or discussed, what does the countries abortion providers do with all of those aborted fetuses. Our cameras will take you there. Up close and personal in the vivisection room.

    But that’s not what they do. Instead they do things like this.

    Judge blocks release of recordings by anti-abortion group
    Yet another “prior restraint” order from a democrat in robes, shopped for by another shady murder on demand outfit.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  94. of course it’s fringey fringe Mr. kishnevi the idea that a woman shouldn’t be free to donate her aborted fetus to science for research is very very fringey fringe

    they should be just as free to do the donating as other women should be free to say no thank you please do not use my aborted fetus for any research and stuff

    this idea that’s on the table

    that women in failmerica are free to decide to abort a baby but aren’t free to have any input in what happens to the aborted fetus

    that’s effed up and deeply weird

    happyfeet (831175)

  95. No, Mark, DRJ is correct. But she knows me from years ago here, and knows why I process emotion differently from most people. But my disdain is not at emotion, but at tactics that manipulate emotion, and decision made on emotions and not facts. And I think your gut instincts are leading you to accept CMJ as credible even though the only reason you have for thinking they are credible is the fact that you share their ultimate goal.

    kishnevi, it’s not just your take on this one matter but on a few others (ie, where I’ve read your postings on certain issues debated at Patterico.com) that led me to believe it wasn’t a purely dispassionate response on your part to PP versus CMJ, as much as a classically or stereotypically liberal one.

    I’m guessing that left-leaning biases have always made a person rather permissive about the idea of abortions, and until I see you express as much cynicism towards PP as you have done about CMJ (per above), I’ll continue to say that it’s not a lack of emotion that has triggered how you’ve dealt with this story but a liberal set of emotions.

    Beyond pure ideology, when a controversy involves human fetuses being treated like laboratory rats, and there’s PP on one side and CMJ on the other, to start casting a shadow on and fussing over whether CMJ has properly crossed all its T’s and dotted its I’s — in the game (or non-game) of promoting a cause — is a case of “let’s shoot the messenger!” and a matter of “and other than THAT, Mrs. Kennedy, how was Dallas?,” or perhaps “look! a squirrel!! (or Cecil the lion!).”

    Mark (f32097)

  96. And at $1.5K a pop said woman would want full value for her slightly used fetus.

    Service.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  97. of course it’s fringey fringe

    So is GLBT and all its weird manifestations thereof, including Gay Pride parades.

    Mark (f32097)

  98. Mr. tiger lifeydoodles especially the rick perry smart glasses kind do everything they can to raise the cost of offering abortion services

    so is it surprising that they can be very expensive?

    the answer is no it is not surprising

    happyfeet (831175)

  99. Are woemn aware that their used fetuses have a monetary value as well as intrinsic? Are they given a discount based on how fully formed the baby’s organs are?
    And if so isn’t PP giving the already self indulgent a fiduciary incentive to delay their abortion until there is no doubt about the baby’s organ development – ie: break the laws against partial birth abortion and murder?

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  100. Judge Orrick

    Employer:
    Coblentz, Patch, Duffy & Bass (until his mega bundling bought him a District judgeship)
    State:
    CA
    Bundler Status for 2004:
    Vice Chair (John Kerry), raised at least $100000
    Name Disclosed By Candidate:
    Y
    Bundler Status for 2008:
    Bundler for Barack Obama, raised at least $200000
    Name Disclosed By Candidate:
    Y
    Federal Lobbyist: N
    Partnered With: Caroline Orrick
    Mega-Donor Status for 2008:
    $30,800.00 to committees supporting Barack Obama

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  101. Law 360 on Judge William H. Orrick

    Law360, San Francisco (July 22, 2014, 5:12 PM ET) — Despite the remarkable fact that Judge William H. Orrick III now sits on the same bench where his late father, William Orrick Jr., once held court, the younger jurist insists that he never intended to so directly follow in his father’s footsteps.

    “I think it’s very much a product of circumstance,” he says. “My father was a terrific man, who I admired hugely, but I didn’t aspire to become a judge until long after he died.”

    Although the two men have traced similar career paths —..

    The former Judge Orrick II (senior) must have bought his office also.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  102. R.I.P. “Rowdy” Roddy Piper

    Icy (941b63)

  103. Mark it is true that I started life as a Democrat, but I am now if anything a libertarian.
    But I refuse to fall into the trap of thinking with my emotions. Which is what you are doing.
    PP is a devil does not mean CMJ is an angel. I said earlier in the thread that if the videos present an accurate picture, PP should be shut down. And by that I mean not just defunded by Congress, but shut down completely.But I do not make the mistake you are doing, and assume that CMJ is credible without further evidence. I am not cynical about CMJ. But an entity which admits it is selectively presenting evidence deserves scrutiny. This is not shoot the messenger. This is examine the messenger’s bona fides, and so far the messenger has presented no bona fides. This is not a question of CMP dotting Is and crossing Ts. This is a question of CMP accurately reporting the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and I refuse to take their assertions as proof that they are, since I know nothing about them.

    kishnevi (294553)

  104. sorry this is the way they represented themselves:

    http://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/print-edition/2015/06/19/cate-dyer-founder-and-ceo-stem-express-llc.html

    why did the dems demagogue sonagrams, caterwall over ESR, because this was the final outcome,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  105. that women in failmerica are free to decide to abort a baby but aren’t free to have any input in what happens to the aborted fetus

    Well, the solution is simple. No aborted fetuses….

    kishnevi (93670d)

  106. that is not constitution that is unconstitution

    happyfeet (831175)

  107. It was Constitution until Harry Blackmun got involved.

    kishnevi (93670d)

  108. what you are talking about is legalism, and it may not be illegal, but why did they hide it for so long,

    http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2015/07/31/the_lack_of_outrage_over_the_horrors_of_planned_parenthood_tells_us_what_s_happened_to_our_culture

    narciso (ee1f88)

  109. What CMJ “is” pretty much does not matter. What matters is PP’s response to the content of the videos. Their initial response was to scream “DECEPTIVE EDITING!” alongside a claim of ‘no wrongdoing whatsoever’ — a response that was met with the release of the entire unedited tapes; at which point PP changed their tune, apologizing for the ‘tone’ (parts is parts!) but not the content of their representative’s speech — while simultaneously hiring a PR firm to do damage control.

    Organizations that have been slandered sue; organizations that have been caught desperately try to spin their way out of it.

    Icy (941b63)

  110. um haven’t we seen if you tell the truth, they put you in jail, Okeefe, slander you, or swat you, too many parties to count, including our host,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  111. 1. Comparing CMP to O’Keeffe is insulting to CMP, no matter what one thinks of them. CMP made a large scale 3 year effort. O’Keeffe did a bunch of publicity stunts. He is lije the 16 year old playing Call of Duty while his older brother (CMP) is on active duty as a Marine.
    2. I have yet to track down the link enumerating how much video CMP, but for Mr. Feets’s benefit, here is a link about postponing abortions to maximize organ harvests
    .http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/421241/bioethicist-supports-selling-fetal-parts-wesley-j-smith
    Which I found because it was linked in a post Dana made on July 16.
    http://patterico.com/2015/07/16/planned-parenthood-president-apologizes-for-doctor-not-being-compassionate-when-talking-about-crushing-fetal-babies-and-the-market-demand-for-their-parts/

    kishnevi (93670d)

  112. we don’t ever see any ethical bioethicists, with the exception of Smith and perhaps Leon Kass, why is that?

    narciso (ee1f88)

  113. How, exactly, are they manipulating the evidence? Because they have t released it in the order you wish? Because they didn’t dump it all at once?

    JD (3b5483)

  114. Because they didn’t dump it all at once?
    That is exactly why I call it manipulating.

    kishnevi (93670d)

  115. R.I.P. Lynn Anderson, singer of “(I Never Promised You a) Rose Garden” fame

    Icy (941b63)

  116. Then virtually every release of information in every conceivable aspect of your life is “manipulated”.

    JD (3b5483)

  117. excuses, excuses, this is all that is proferred on this, obamacare, the Iran Deal, amnesty, and we’re supposed to buy every lie from Benghazi to Baltimore, as North Africa and large tracks of our urban centers are set ablaze

    narciso (ee1f88)

  118. Then virtually every release of information in every conceivable aspect of your life is “manipulated”.

    JD (3b5483) — 7/31/2015 @ 8:54 pm

    … and it’s time to quit bitchin about it.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  119. PP is a devil does not mean CMJ is an angel. I said earlier in the thread that if the videos present an accurate picture, PP should be shut down. And by that I mean not just defunded by Congress, but shut down completely.

    Kishnevi, you’re a libertarian with liberal biases, which is all I’m pointing out. Your sentence above — and other comments from you in this thread that strike a similar tone — already provides greater leeway or benefit of the doubt to PP than to CMJ, since you’re using the word “if” when you want to portray PP in the harshest terms possible (and which comes off like feigned outrage, like a stage whisper of “oh, uh, yea, they’re bad and should be shutdown!”) and not using that same qualifier to describe CMJ.

    I’d portray your POV differently if your comment was more along the lines of:

    This is examine the messenger’s bona fides, and IF the messenger has presented no bona fides [than I don’t trust them]. This is not a question of CMP dotting Is and crossing Ts. This is a question of IF (or whether) CMP [is] accurately reporting the whole truth and nothing but the truth, and I refuse [I’m leery about taking] to take their assertions as proof that they are, since I know nothing about them.

    Mark (f32097)

  120. Found it, although not the link I originally saw, whatever that was. And I obviously understated the amount of video actually filmed.
    http://www.centerformedicalprogress.org/human-capital/
    Which you might want to bookmark, since CMP is using that as its archive.

    The Human Capital project is a 30-month-long investigative journalism study by The Center for Medical Progress, documenting how Planned Parenthood sells the body parts of aborted babies. Citizen journalists at CMP spent two-and-a-half years logging thousands of research hours to painstakingly gather hundreds of hours of undercover footage, dozens of eye-witness testimonies, and nearly two hundred pages of primary source documents. This information will continue to be made available to the public at this site.

    The video footage gathered in this project is presented in two formats: 1) as summary videos of specific undercover encounters, and 2) as a multi-part documentary web series, “Human Capital,” which integrates expert interviews, eyewitness accounts, and real-life undercover interactions to tell the story of Planned Parenthood’s commercial exploitation of aborted fetal tissue.

    The title “Human Capital” is a wordplay on the typical economic term for the value to an enterprise of the skills and abilities of human individuals. CMP’s project explores the business value of human bodies themselves to Planned Parenthood, and the way the “human capital” of aborted baby parts affects the real human capital of those who work in Planned Parenthood’s abortion clinics.

    kishnevi (294553)

  121. @94, I’m sorry kishnevi, but if you think reason is a credible source for the legal background you’ve lost the argument.

    Planned Parenthood clinics don’t seem to be doing anything illegal, at least not broadly.

    Oh, well then! There’s a rock solid defense.

    “your honor, my client doesn’t seem to have done anything illegal, at least not broadly.”

    Then go for summary dismissal, which is what PP is trying to do. Yeah, right. And they don’t even get their basic facts right.

    Since then, Planned Parenthood says its website has been downed twice by hackers using distributed denial of service (DDoS) attacks.

    Their claim they had been hacked was laughable from the start. They claimed to have been down due to hacking on their own website. They claimed that “extremists who oppose Planned Parenthood’s mission and services … have called on the world’s most sophisticated hackers to assist them in breaching our systems.”

    The “world’s most sophisticated hackers” then either put up a message about how many people benefit from PP health care or they let PP do it. In other words, whoever “hacked” the site never took control. And allowed PP to reformat the “we’ve been hacked” page and change fonts for a better look and feel.

    The “world’s most sophisticated hackers” didn’t disable the “learn more” link that went to PP’s facebook page.

    The “we’ve been hacked” stunt was a fabrication from the start. PP finally had to admit they were down for scheduled maintenance.

    But this author blindly accepts PPs claims, and doesn’t have a clue that those claims were ridiculous from the start.

    You go with this chick’s legal analysis if you want, kishnevi. I just can’t keep a straight face as it’s LOL clueless. She probably was clueless enough to believe Anthony Weiner when he claimed his twitter account had been hacked. She’s probably fallen for every campus race/sex/gender/rape hoax that’s ever come down the pike.

    Steve57 (0ccd36)

  122. 96. banning research won’t stop one single abortion…

    happyfeet (831175) — 7/31/2015 @ 6:50 pm

    You can pretend not to understand the issues all you want. But what they’re discussing on the videos is how to tailor future abortions to suit the needs of the flesh peddlers.

    And that’s already illegal. They can not modify their procedures to better harvest organs.

    On top of that, if they’re not informing the women exactly what they’re doing differently in order to harvest these organs, such as not using digoxin to kill the fetus before doing a D&E (dilation and evacuation), which involves using forceps to dismember the fetus ALIVE), then they’re doing this without patient consent.

    Which is another crime.

    Since this is the product of a thorough, three year investigation, I’m sure the CMP already knows the answers to the informed consent question.

    Steve57 (0ccd36)

  123. Happyfascist,

    you really are a left-wing troll. You continue to expouse left-wing talking points over and over. You want to punish those who show Christian beliefs and have called them more names than one can count. You love to show how bad those individuals are, yet then claim with the same mouth that you wouldn’t crush them with the government… just make them go away, lose their business, lives and freedom to practice, all freely of course. Yeah, right.

    You also support infanticide on demand because… freedom or something. Where in the Constitution does it support murdering the unborn? I await a real response, but know I won’t get one because you’ll go back to stupid remarks about food or more left-wing jargon.

    But carry on. Everyone here knows you for what you are. You’ve been exposed over and over again as an amoral, petty, obnoxious troll.

    NJRob (2cbf9c)

  124. oh my goodness you’re all wound up Mr. Rob

    i support people being free to do their abortions and their tissue donations like how the gazelles are free to roam the serengeti

    a bountiful harvest of freedom is what we reap when we just let people make their own choices

    happyfeet (831175)

  125. But what they’re discussing on the videos is how to tailor future abortions to suit the needs of the flesh peddlers.

    but that’s all they do is discuss it and they’re always like okey dokey we can bounce this off the surgeon but no promises

    and the discussion of modifyings are always at the suggestion of the depraved loser from the evil center for medical progress

    it’s very telling that never in the videos does PP ever actually sign a contract with the creepers from the CMP

    i bet after the creepers leave they’re all like ok well we’re definitely not partnering with THOSE creeper creeper picklepoos – the CMP dude kept giggling at the dead babies what a jackoff

    happyfeet (831175)

  126. “but that’s all they do is discuss it”

    Mr. Feets – I remember these same minimization defenses from liberals when the ACORN videos were released. Why would you expect CMP to sign a fraudulent contract and break the law? That is stupid logic and you are smarter than that.

    The question seems to be whether people are disturbed by the content shown in the videos and whether federal funding should go to an organization which seemingly lacks a moral compass from top to bottom.

    Your answers are minimization, rationalization and distraction.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  127. well the point is Mr. daley the CMP didn’t catch PP doing anything illegal

    did NOT

    done and done

    and failmericans are a weak-minded people what are easily disturbed by videos you saw what video of a lion did to the poor dears

    i’m definitely for defunding the PP even if all the R’s wanna do is take the PP money and give it to different parasites

    gogogo!

    but honestly I don’t think the mcconnellwhore republicans know how to get something like that done anymores

    and this idea that we have a national ban on abortion at 20 weeks should be left to the states i think

    but that would only work if the sleazy republicans gave a crap about using the constitution as something other than toilet paper to wipe the poopoo out their harvard trash bungholioliolios

    happyfeet (831175)

  128. and everytime such a ban in proposed the appeals court strike it down, it’s almost as if they need to keep an inventory,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  129. well i think it’s been made pretty clear Mr. narciso that the 20 week compromise would have better luck in the courts if it were set at 22 or 23 weeks which is more in line with the consensus on what constitutes viability for these lil guys

    but everyone likes nice round numbers

    happyfeet (831175)

  130. “well the point is Mr. daley the CMP didn’t catch PP doing anything illegal”

    Mr. Feets – Well, that may be the point to you but it is not at all the point to me and millions of other Americans and you are smarter than that.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  131. here’s some good context for this discussion i think

    science!

    big wheel keep on turnin proud mary keep on burnin

    happyfeet (831175)

  132. Mr. daley this too shall pass

    you can’t build a sturdy edifice off of cheap sensationalist sleazy youtube videos

    muckraking journalism is something people are super-easily desensitized to

    the harvest from these sorts of mad magazine spy vs. spy activities dwindles very rapidly until all you can do is plant another crop and pray for rain

    and failmerica has WAY bigger problems than this to deal with besides

    first thing is you people have to get puerto rico in the back of the minivan and take the poor thing to the vet

    it’s time

    happyfeet (831175)

  133. Well, another point is that rat droppings, rat poison, dead rats, and the occasional human in Armour hot dogs were not illegal until 1919. Hmm? Maybe if it ain’t illegal, there oughta be a law?

    nk (dbc370)

  134. first thing is you people have to get puerto rico in the back of the minivan and take the poor thing to the vet

    it’s time

    happyfeet (831175) — 8/1/2015 @ 7:46 am

    But you can’t fix stupid.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  135. first thing is you people have to get puerto rico in the back of the minivan and take the poor thing to the vet

    it’s time

    happyfeet (831175) — 8/1/2015 @ 7:46 am

    Puerto Rico is like the monkey in the cage given a choice between pulling the food lever or the cocaine lever. And there it goes. Double downing on the coke lever again.

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  136. i think it’s fair to argue for a law

    but me i think that a female person what has an abortion should be free to say yes please use my little aborted fetus baby for research

    and a female person what has an abortion should be free to say oh my goodness please to not use my little aborted fetus baby for research

    this is just normal as picklefeathers on a picklebird

    if you wanna make a law to where PP can’t get any monies from the stemexpress organizations then that’s fair i think

    so far there’s no evidence that these payments lead to nefarious incentives but the potential is certainly there i guess

    but given that this is failmerica and failmericans are a cowardly morally-defective sleazewhore people, here’s how i bet that plays out

    right now you have a market where people want fetal tissue for researching into medicine and such

    you get rid of that market

    and bam you get an underground market where people are doing god knows what

    the devil you know is named Percival you should meet him up for coffee at the new ghirardelli in the wriggles

    happyfeet (831175)

  137. It’s more to kishnevi’s argument than yours, but these videos are like The Jungle which was unabashed propaganda — rumor has it that Sinclair was commissioned by a union — aimed to tug at the heartstrings and to turn the stomach at what was going on. Let’s see what comes out of them. Sinclair wanted better working conditions for the meatpackers; the American public wanted and got tastier hot dogs. So you might get your wish of no government money to abortion mills.

    nk (dbc370)

  138. actually no, the jungle was apocryphal this is how many hours of tape, hence they want to shut it down,

    narciso (ee1f88)

  139. researching into medicine and such

    Well I read they use dead baby guts as a taste receptor for adjusting the sugar content of Pepsi products. Medicines though? I haven’t seen that.

    Oh and by the way AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! YOU FING SOULESS ANIMALS, @ PepsiCo!

    papertiger (c2d6da)

  140. They are putting babies in my Dodger Dog?
    That’ll draw some attention…

    I know that aborting millions of babies means double the kidneys eyes testicles and those gotta go somewhere but maybe after science is overwhelmed by the volume of parts, we should just work with adoption networks induce labor and give the baby to a family and see if that works out better for the baby than parting it out like a 1986 Oldsmobile at the junk yard

    steveg (fed1c9)

  141. BTW, you can get a Chicago Public Library ecard that allows you to borrow ebooks, audiobooks and movies, all from the safety and comfort of your home, in less time than it took me to type this comment. Just Google Chicago Public Library and then follow the links. I got approved instantaneously — if the computer double-checked my name and address against my voter registration or drivers license, it didn’t tell me. The dark side is that you get mostly stuff from the electronic age which mostly suck, but there are some worth the time and you can’t beat the price. (And just because they suck to me doesn’t mean they’ll suck to you.)

    nk (dbc370)

  142. i’ll do it today

    i been keeping the lights on at amazon with all this commuting reading time

    happyfeet (831175)

  143. i been really loving the expanse series it makes the trains go super-fast

    happyfeet (831175)

  144. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! YOU FING SOULESS ANIMALS, @ PepsiCo!

    it’s hard for a pikachu to defend the flagrant anti-american obamawhores at pepsico so i’m a let this one go

    happyfeet (831175)

  145. and you are smarter than that.

    It’s a major mistake to correlate a person’s intelligence with the quality of his or her judgment or decisionmaking. Albert Einstein, as one example, was a genius but his biases made him side with the idiocy of socialism and leftist figureheads. More ridiculously, people of his political slant in today’s era are illustrating even greater derangement by being among those in the forefront of accommodating Islamofascists throughout Europe and the US.

    Mark (f32097)

  146. i don’t defend PP they’re sucking at the teat of government in a most unseemly way

    if you could make the case that

    a.) PP was aborting kids that otherwise wouldn’t have been aborted OR

    b.) that PP was encouraging moms to hold off on abortions til later for so they would have more better developed fetal baby organs

    then that would be very muy no bueno, but nobody’s suggested anything like a or b yet

    happyfeet (a037ad) — 7/31/2015 @ 10:12 am

    Well Mr. feet actually you do defend what PP does, which is crush babies skulls, as far as I can tell. You keep making this legalistic “I don’t see any clear proof they committed a crime” yada yada yada point. But they clearly crush live baby’s skulls.

    As for the merit of the videos, if they do no more than drive home the point that live babies are being dismembered, that’s not in any way misleading, nor “cheap” or any other other disparaging adjectives you keep trying to attach to it. The fact that you keep attaching those adjectives to the videos and the Center for Medical Progress while making your legalistic point, is totally revealing. Because you in fact don’t have a problem with that.

    And as I said, you’re not bothered by that but you are DEEPLY bothered by someone not baking a cake for a lesbian couple. And as I said, the combination of those two positions is mighty strange. So my point stands.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  147. Mr. A i don’t think the morally bankrupt government of failmerica should be empowered to make abortion choices for women

    i also do not think the morally bankrupt government of failmerica should be empowered to force stupid contemptible bigoted bakers to bake cakes if they don’t want to

    i also do not think the morally bankrupt government of failmerica should be empowered to make me pay protection monies if I don’t want second-class ghetto-ass super-high-deductible obamacare insurance

    land of the free home of the brave

    this is what we’re shootin for here tex

    happyfeet (831175)

  148. And as I said, the combination of those two positions is mighty strange

    Actually, liberal biases, for any number of reasons, often lead a person in that direction. Such folks are very permissive in general about sexuality (including the “GLBT”) and its effects on human life and society, including unwanted pregnancies. There’s also the odd corollary where a variety of them are very weepy-eyed about the welfare of Fido or Kitty but rather cavalier about a person going to a clinic and getting a human fetus vacuumed out.

    The corrupting and cheap nature of compassion for compassion’s sake.

    Mark (f32097)

  149. Mr. A i don’t think the morally bankrupt government of failmerica should be empowered to make abortion choices for women

    i also do not think the morally bankrupt government of failmerica should be empowered to force stupid contemptible bigoted bakers to bake cakes if they don’t want to

    i also do not think the morally bankrupt government of failmerica should be empowered to make me pay protection monies if I don’t want second-class ghetto-ass super-high-deductible obamacare insurance

    land of the free home of the brave

    this is what we’re shootin for here tex

    happyfeet (831175) — 8/1/2015 @ 9:46 am

    None of that explains why you have such a problem with the videos, unless you think it could make people who aren’t bothered by abortion become bothered by it.

    Equating interfering with people’s insurance decisions and protecting babies from being dismembered is a very low-IQ type of argument tex.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  150. i do not understand

    i do not have a problem with the videos i just think they’re tailored to elicit a hyper-emotional response from stupid people

    they’re like super super super low budget m knight shimonimomalanalan movies

    happyfeet (831175)

  151. i just think they’re tailored to elicit a hyper-emotional response from stupid people

    I’m probably trying to hard to be logical with you, but give me an example or two of something in the videos “tailored to elicit a hyper-emotional response from stupid people”. And what would be a “hyper-emotional response” in this case?

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  152. watch the videos again and just listen to the giggly juvenile tone the CMP people set for the conversations

    then they turn around an criticize the tone of the conversations

    and the morons the videos are made for fall for it cause lifeydoodles are not critical thinkers

    happyfeet (831175)

  153. *and* criticize i mean

    happyfeet (831175)

  154. “Stupid people.” Really? Not all smart like you?

    What a jerk.

    Simon Jester (39fc74)

  155. you’re a poopyhead what gets off on criticizing other commenters cause you think in your arrogant poopydoopystoopyhead that you get to be the arbiter of who can participate

    that is what a jerk does

    me, however, i never ever tell people they are not welcome to make the comments because of i have a philosophy and i will tell you what it is

    there’s so many people in this sad lil country what do not participate in these discussions in any meaningful way

    not at home with their family

    not at work with their co-workers

    not while they are having a tasty lunch

    or when they find a neat new place to have coffee where they can look out over the avenue at all the people walking by what came from everywhere in america

    they just don’t bother

    and that’s the saddest thing of all

    that’s my philosophy

    not participating is so sad and it’s up to all of us to encourage everyone to participate in their own special unique way

    is it apathy?

    i do not know

    but i encourage them to join

    it can be as easy as saying like i did the other day so hey D what you think about the lion?

    (D is this guy at work who’s been distractered cause of he bought a hoose)

    and he was all like what lion

    and i said it’s an internet lion what got killed his name was cecil, and we talked about it and he decided he wasn’t too upset about it

    mostly cause he was confounded by the logics of Mr. geoff’s argument

    Mr. geoff’s argument was about how if Cecil hadn’t gotten killed there was still a dead certainty some other lion woulda gotten killed cause of the guy had paid 50K and gotten a permit and his whole mission in life was to kill a lion to where that lion would no longer be able to make the comments

    happyfeet (831175)

  156. Well, I’m not the only one, nor the only comment section, that funds you to be a lazy jerk, hypocrite, and a poseur.

    You insult lots of people, but seem pretty sensitive.

    Again, just a jerk.

    Simon Jester (39fc74)

  157. please be careful with me

    i’m sensitive

    and i want

    to stay that way

    happyfeet (831175)

  158. we’re not even getting to Luna by 2076 I fear, Simon.

    narciso (ee1f88)

  159. Then act like a man.

    ropelight (e6eb9d)

  160. men don’t run around like startled hens when confronted with youtubes what fail to document anything illegal Mr. ropelight

    they just kinda roll their eyes and get down to the dusty thirsty work of corralling up them poor over-excited hens

    i grewed up in one of them old farm towns where they hit it hard til the sun went down

    happyfeet (831175)

  161. they’re tailored to elicit a hyper-emotional response from stupid people

    Similar to your reaction when two homosexuals are asking for (or demanding) a wedding cake and being turned down by a creeped-out baker.

    Mark (f32097)

  162. ooh burn

    happyfeet (831175)

  163. Oh Oh People trying to discuss with the happy doodle.

    I’m outa here.

    Mike K (90dfdc)

  164. well i for one welcome you to stay and participate in a spirited give and take of ideas and thinkings about the fetuses

    happyfeet (831175)

  165. watch the videos again and just listen to the giggly juvenile tone the CMP people set for the conversations

    then they turn around an criticize the tone of the conversations

    and the morons the videos are made for fall for it cause lifeydoodles are not critical thinkers

    Ahhhh now I see. The tone is giggly juvenile, and that creates all these hyper-emotional responses. I was thinking you were going to give some type of non-answer that didn’t make any sense! But I was wrong. “Juvenile tones” are creating “hyper-emotional responses”. Still no answer to what a “hyper-emotional response” is however.

    Gerald A (949d7d)

  166. I do not know why it is not put out on the internet in a way that causes complete dispersal that can never be erased like so many other things so injunctions are toothless and futile.

    dunce (040ba0)

  167. CMP seems to be following a pattern established by Okeef in slowly releasing the videos one at a time several days apart to build a drum beat of opposition. PP knows this and dreads it. Openness is not part of their plans.

    dunce (040ba0)


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